June 19, 2025 • 30 mins
In this episode, Mary Genis, Artistic Director and founder of Culture Mix Arts, discusses her journey into music and how her career has evolved. Mary highlights the importance of music accessibility and the benefits of steel pans as an orchestral instrument. She also explains how her experience working for Reading Borough Council and Arts Council England provided essential skills in project management, budget management, and understanding funding structures.
Amongst other things, we explore Mary's approach to running a not-for-profit organisation, which emphasises using funding to launch projects rather than for sustained income, and the importance of being organised and having strong financial systems. We touch upon how developing skills through various roles led to unexpected professional opportunities and enabled the growth of Culture Mix Arts. Mary also shares her experiences of creating employment opportunities and developing staff from within the organisation, reinforcing the idea that fostering talent can lead to significant company success.
Finally, Mary reveals her philosophy of life, which prioritises fulfilment over material success and encourages self-belief, sharing ambitions, and continuous personal growth.
Timecodes
00:00 Greeting
00:48 Introduction to Mary
01:33 The development of Culture Mix Arts
02:41 How Mary developed the skills that she needed to run her business | Mary’s role at Reading Borough Council
05:10 Mary’s role at Arts Council England Arts
06:49 Culture Mix Arts is an Arts Council England National Portfolio Organisation (ACE NPO). We discuss what this means.
08:37 The challenges of applying for funding
09:56 Tips for businesses looking to obtain funding
13:00 Why Mary decided to set up Culture Mix Arts as a company
14:21 A focus on two of Mary’s team who came to her as teenagers
17:45 How Mary makes Steel pans accessible to a wider audience
21:12 One of the main battles in engaging people
21:57 The challenges that Mary has faced in implementing her vision for Culture Mix
25:01 Mary’s philosophy of life
28:51 Mary’s final thoughts
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome to My Local Marketer podcast.
I'm Maria and today I'm with Mary Genis who is Artistic Director and founder of CultureMix Arts.
Mary, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
How are you?
I'm fine, thank you.
Thank you for inviting me.
I'm really excited to be here.
Please, well, I should say I'm excited to be here because we're filming today in your baseon Queen's Walk.
(00:23):
This is Culture, Mixed Arts and Music Centre, a place where you can experience Caribbeanculture.
You can join still band workshops or you can learn to dance, do carnival dancing, or youcan join a reggae collective.
Or if you're a young person, you can join our jazz collective called Jazz Road Beat.
(00:44):
And there's lots of really interesting things that we do here.
Could you give a bit of introduction to yourself first of all as to how you got startedwith Culture Mix?
Yeah, I mean, I was inspired by my parents who came over during the wind rush from theCaribbean, from Trinidad and Tobago.
And I was really inspired by their story, especially my mother's story, where she left mytwo of my sisters in Trinidad to come here to start the process of getting our whole
(01:15):
family here so we could have better opportunities in education, employment.
and she really wanted the best for us and she felt this was a good way to do it, was tocome to Britain and start that process of bringing up her family here.
And when did you start Culture Mix Arts?
(01:35):
I started Culture Mix Arts in the 80s actually, but I didn't set it up as a proper companythat could employ people until early 2000, it was actually 2003.
So I'd been running it all that time as like a sole trader.
I did mainly costumes, fashion, bridal wear.
(01:58):
I was a tour manager in Europe and a musician.
I designed logos and designed flyers.
I did illustration.
I did a lot of different things, was a dancer as well.
And I wanted to kind of bring together my eclectic portfolio of work into one space.
(02:18):
And that was defined by the term the arts, which encapsulated all of those art forms frommusic, dance, theatre, all of it.
And I felt it was
a perfect fit for me that instead of feeling like a jack of all trades master of none Icould feel like I was a creative and artistic director.
(02:40):
Well, you say that phrase, Jack of all trades, master of none, but what I've noticed aboutyou is it started in the 80s and obviously then you set up as a company in 2003.
And this is what I also mean by intentional because all that time you were doing installedtraded bits, but you were doing other work, weren't you, in developing specific skills
that you thought you would need to develop culture mix.
(03:02):
it was the Reading Council and then obviously Arts Council.
Well, I didn't have any role models that I could ask advice or support from.
I had ambitions nevertheless and I couldn't afford to pay to go to study.
So I managed to get this really great job at Reading Borough Council as the ArtsDevelopment Officer there.
(03:28):
This was as a direct outcome of the MacPherson report which came about.
following the Stephen Lawrence murder to look at how this could happen in that time.
And it was deemed that, you know, there was institutional racism, nothing new for us now.
But the recommendations made by McPherson was that authorities and schools and all thepublic service providers should have more representation.
(03:58):
And I was one of those people that got the job as the
Arts Development Office for Cultural Diversity.
My job was to uh create opportunities for people of colour so that they could be better,so that they could learn more about setting up their own businesses, creative activities,
they could learn about tech and generally have a place in the society of the town at thetime.
(04:26):
And it was through that role that you learned about project management, wasn't it?
That was a skill that you focused on developing while you were in that position.
Yeah, and it was a revelation to me, to be honest, because this was before the internet.
So we're talking about, you know, mid to late nineties, but I had access to all thisinformation.
I was really intrigued and hungry for knowledge and had this ambition to set up my ownorganization, but didn't know how, but learned there how to manage projects, how to manage
(04:58):
budgets, how to set up partnerships.
coordinating events and all those basic skills you need for running your own company.
And then the role following that was Arts Council England, wasn't it, that you worked for?
Yeah, they had a similar role there.
So I was only working part-time at Reading.
(05:19):
And so I took on this role, which was again, Arts Development Office of Cultural Diversityfor the Regional Arts Council, which at that time was based in Winchester and later in
Brighton.
So for the Southeast region.
So I took on that role and there I learned how to manage larger budgets.
(05:40):
I learned more about strategy.
learned more about government strategy, about how central government works.
And I was quite frankly intrigued and fascinated drinking this all in because I wanted tobe able to do something good that would benefit not just my community but communities in
(06:00):
general and help people to be the best they can be and to be able to fulfil theirambitions to help make their dreams become a reality.
And this is what I find fascinating and why I've sort of doubled down on this, because youhad your soul trade, your business, you had culture mixed arts.
You had that throughout this whole time, but you were using these jobs in these positionsto get knowledge and develop specific skills that you could then, as we're going to find
(06:27):
out, apply later on to culture mixed arts.
And one of the things I think you got, correct me I'm wrong, from Arts Council England, isa look behind the scenes as to how the funding structure works, because
I should say now, I say at this stage that Culture Mix Arts, are an A-C-E-N-P-O.
Arts Council England National Portfolio Organisation.
(06:48):
Yes.
For anyone who isn't familiar with the Arts Council organisation, could you explain whatthat is and maybe how the background in Arts Council helped you understand?
oh
I was intrigued on how the funding system works.
And if you want to find something out, the best way to do that is to get in there and workin that environment, which is what I did.
(07:12):
And I wanted to find out how funding worked, what made you eligible to apply for it, whogot it and what they did with it.
I knew very little about this, but I learned a great deal there.
The national portfolio is
a group of about 990 organisations.
So Arts Council of England regularly funds these organisations to represent the very bestof British culture and arts to the rest of the world, to showcase art and culture, to
(07:44):
enable people to engage and access good quality, high quality arts and culture that is thebest representation of that in England.
And you have to apply.
and you get funding for maybe three or four years and it's quite arduous to process andthe eligibility.
(08:06):
But I really wanted to be part of this.
felt this would give Culture Mix the recognition it deserved because as you know, I don'tdo this on my own.
have this amazing team and therefore increase our opportunities in terms of networking, interms of generating income, in terms of
(08:27):
products and services we provide, increase the quality of that, improve that and grow andstill be sustainable.
And I think that goes to show that there is funding and there are opportunities out therefor businesses, but you've actually got to go find them, read the requirements, what's
required for the submission, and then go after it.
(08:49):
So there are funding pots out there.
Yes, there are, but they don't make it easy.
It's not just the Arts Council, it's not just Arts Council England that do funding.
You've got a plethora of other dozens, if not hundreds of other funding bodies that alsoyou can apply for funding for.
But you've got to go through the eligibility criteria.
(09:11):
The work that you're doing has to resonate with their principles and their objectives.
And there's all these...
various elements that you have to be able to fulfil to apply.
And then it's not a foregone conclusion.
You then go into the pot with all the many other applicants and as you can imagine withany funding opportunity there are much more applicants than there are funds to distribute.
(09:39):
So it's quite competitive but I grew to understand the process and how
you go about doing it, that doesn't mean you're always successful because we're not alwayssuccessful with funding applications.
But considering our demographic, if you like, we've done quite well.
On the back of the funding, could you share any tips for maybe businesses who are lookingto do something to help others or other groups who are looking to get some funding?
(10:10):
Well, I mean, it helps if you're a not-for-profit organization or even a charity.
We're not a charity.
We're a company limited by a guarantee with no share capital, which basically is anotherway of saying we're not-for-profit.
So we don't have shareholders.
We don't share the profits amongst ourselves or our board or anything like that.
(10:31):
It's returned back into the organization to build and grow the organization.
So it really helps to be.
a not-for-profit organization or a charity, it really helps for you to be organized andhave good financial systems in place.
It really helps you to have structure.
You don't have to be a large organization, but if you've got structure and you work withpeople and you successfully deliver your activities to people and you've got testimonials
(10:59):
to evidence that, that really helps.
But I always say this, it's really important that you use funding
not to sustain yourself, but to launch your project, to start something off, to enable youand your organisation to grow or to become as independent as is feasibly possible.
(11:20):
So it's really important that funding isn't seen as a form of income, but a way ofboosting or launching your project so that you can fly with it.
uh
Once the funding has run out, because it always does run out, you can fly with it anddevelop your project and grow your organisation to fulfil your ambitions.
(11:47):
think that's a really good point that you touched on there, the fact that funding is notjust an extra boost of money into your business, it's there for a specific project to get
it going off the blocks, so then you can hopefully maintain that.
It's not like you're going from one funding pot to another just to see yourself through.
So yeah, again, educate yourself on what funding is for and how you're going to use it,and that gives you the best chance of being successful.
(12:09):
Yes, and remember also that it's very competitive.
So you need to plan when in advance.
Planning a project for 12 months time, yes, apply for funding.
If you're planning a project for six weeks time, you're too late.
So you need that three or four months turnaround.
You need to start small, build up your relationship with the funding body, make surethey're aware of the work you're doing, ask them for advice.
(12:37):
and they want you to succeed so they can help.
We run the Creative Business Hub which is a place where people who want to set up businessor understand the funding system better, they can come and talk to us and we'll help them
and signpost them.
We don't do applications but we signpost and give some guidance on how.
(12:58):
You started Culture Mix in the 80s, as we've said.
You then spent 20 years developing your skills and doing different bits for Culture Mix.
And then in 2003, you set it up as a business.
Why did you decide to set it up as a business?
Why was that so important after being going as a sole trader for so long?
I realised that oh if I want to do something meaningful, what did people need?
(13:23):
They need employment, they need work, they need other things as well like housing,healthcare, food and water and so on.
But they need a job.
And if I could employ one or two people, then at the time felt I would have done somethinguseful for the world or for my community or the community is to...
(13:45):
create employment for people who want to work in the arts, realistic employmentopportunities.
So therefore I set it up as a company so that I could employ people on PAYE, pay as youearn, run a payroll and I was the first employee and to achieve the ambition I'd set for
(14:07):
myself, I only needed one more and now we have more than that.
now I have three full-time employees.
and about three part time as well.
a couple of your full-time employees, they actually came here, they, as part of theteaching program?
They were here as teenagers.
mean, we always offered work experience for year 10s, that's people around 15 years old,to come and work with us for a week or two to experience what it's like to be in the world
(14:40):
of work, to see what's expected of them and to have a broad brush view.
of all the different departments within an organisation, right from finance and budgets,right through to delivering activities or events.
So we worked with regional agencies to provide work experience.
(15:01):
And one of those was a young girl that came and I could see straight away that she had aspark about her.
There was something about her.
She was bright, she was articulate, she was only 15.
I could see something in her and here we are 18 or 19 years later and she's the businessdirector for Culture Mix Arts which means she runs the company so she does all the
(15:28):
finances, the funding, she doesn't do it single-handedly we work, obviously we worktogether but she manages the company and she's doing very well she's also on the board of
Youth Music which is a large national
funding body for young people that probably turns over about 13 million a year.
(15:48):
So it's a large organization.
And she's also the chair of the board of the East Midlands Caribbean Carnival ArtsNetwork, which manages four or five carnivals.
Her name's Nathifa Jordan.
Also create opportunities for people to come and play music in an orchestra together andpeople who love
(16:10):
being creative and having the opportunity to be creative with others.
And that's how I met a young man who at the time was 18, a young man called Paul Watson.
I was taken aback at his level of talent.
He's very good at the time and even more so now, a very good drummer, was absolutelypassionate about steel pan, could play several instruments, was smart, eloquent and had a
(16:38):
head on his shoulders that belied.
his youthfulness and that again was about 19 years ago.
He's now the music director for Culture Mix, he works full time and he runs all the steelbands.
We have about 15 school steel bands and we have a steel orchestra here called Reading HallSteel Percussion Orchestra with ensembles and workshops and we also run a reggae
(17:07):
collective.
So he runs all the music activity, act, culture mix and without Nathifa and Paul I couldn'tpossibly have achieved what I have achieved and it's majorly thanks to them and their
input and their passion that we share that's made this the success that it is today.
(17:32):
I think that's a really important lesson to take away.
It's not just have an employee, it's someone who you're developing and enhancing theirdreams and in return they'll help you with yours.
One of the things that you do is you're so good at making music accessible.
As you said, it's steel drums, that's your main forte, but I was surprised when you saidyou've got a passion for classical music and how you combine those two in order to make it
(17:56):
accessible to people who may not normally be exposed to steel drums.
Could you go a bit into that?
Well...
Steel pans are made from oil drums, so a lot of people do call them steel drums, which isfine.
They are an orchestral instrument, but they're seen as something a bit exotic from theCaribbean.
In fact, they're all over the world and there's a massive community.
(18:21):
First instrument I was taught as a child was the cello.
And I played in an ensemble and we did performances for dignitaries who came to ourconvent that I went to.
And the next instrument I learned was classical piano and I was really taken by the dramaand the passion of Beethoven sonatas and Chopin pieces and pieces by Brahms that were
(18:46):
dramatic and amazing in the way.
And I just would practice for hours and hours to learn to play them and then perform themat little local recitals.
And fast forward, know, the steel percussion orchestra has all the same values as anorchestral instrument.
The piano is a good example.
(19:07):
You've got down the low end, you've got the bass end in the middle, you've got, you know,the chords and the middle tone.
And at the top, you've got the melody, the tenor part and the soprano.
And you can create all of that with a steel band or steel orchestra.
And some of the work we've done in the past was to
(19:28):
try and influence educators, especially schools or people managing school cohorts on thebenefits of steel pans.
And we would use classical music to do this.
And I remember we would play stuff like Beethoven's Fur Elise, which is uh a commonpopular piece.
(19:48):
And at performances, we would play stuff like Sugar Plum the Fairy,
by Tchaikovsky, all on steel pans, all with teenagers, maybe Brahms Waltz No.
5.
We would play Carmen Overture by Bizet, and we would just use these pieces to demonstratethat this is a tuned percussion instrument.
(20:13):
has the same qualities as any other group of instruments, a philharmonic or whatever.
However,
The benefit here is it's a show and tell instrument.
It doesn't prohibit access to music or score.
In fact, it can be like an opening to that.
It can open the door to learning music in that sense.
(20:34):
But it enables people to see the correlation between what might be for them a familiarclassical music and to hear it played by a steel orchestra, by maybe a bunch of teenagers
as well would have the desired impact.
I think that's a brilliant lesson.
Meet people where they are, show them the connection, show them a way in and there's muchmore chance that they're actually going to find something in it for them rather than
(21:00):
trying to convince them that something which to them is very different is actually forthem.
So yeah, I really like that technique.
I mean, it's fair to say that half the battle of the last 20 years has been educatingpeople that this is a bona fide instrument with the same 12 notes that most other
instruments in the Western world has, from a piano, a guitar, a violin, oboe, all of them.
(21:25):
There's only 12 notes in the scale.
And the steel pan has those 12 notes and they have them in octaves from very low down tovery high up.
across the instrument range, which means you can play absolutely any type of music fromjazz, classical, pop, reggae, you know, anything you want you can play.
(21:47):
And of course, calypso music, which is what they were made for originally.
What are the challenges that you faced in implementing the vision that you have forCulture Mix?
The challenges of setting up any business, I mean, we can talk about culture mix, isconvincing people that you are serious about your vision and that your vision will be
(22:12):
effective, is deliverable, is feasible and realistic.
And you don't need many to support that.
One or two people is actually enough, but you've often got to wade through.
A lot of naysayers, a lot of people who will say to you, well, that's not going to work.
(22:33):
That's just not going to work.
I went to the bank.
I can't remember why I went.
Maybe it was for a loan or something.
I went to the bank.
said, I want to set up my own business.
And they said, what do you want to do?
And this was back in the eighties, maybe early nineties.
And I said, I want to go into schools and teach still pan music.
(22:55):
And they
had to peel themselves off the floor laughing.
They just thought it was so implausible and so ridiculous.
And now here we are all this time later and our school's portfolio is a mainstay incomegenerator for our business.
So you've really got to be able to take the knocks.
(23:17):
But for me, the challenges were mainly being taken seriously.
because it looks like you're trying to turn your hobby into a business, which in a way forsome people it could be perceived like that.
So you're playing music, you're going and doing gigs, you're doing workshops, you're doingall this fun stuff, you know, it's like, when are you going to get a proper job kind of
(23:42):
thing?
So that challenge to be taken seriously was one from which I was never deterred, not for asecond.
Because I knew that it would work, I just needed to get on with it.
I needed to find out how to run a business rather than how to deliver my vision for thatbusiness.
(24:06):
It was more about the essential elements, which is where the work at Reading BoroughCouncil came in, working at the Arts Council.
I was fortunate enough to join the Clore Fellowship and there I learnt a great deal.
And if you've got mentors and people who will advise you and you only need one or two keypeople that can see your vision and that can help you on your way, and that's usually
(24:33):
enough to enable you to go forward in a positive way.
think that's really inspiring and definitely a key message I'd like everyone to take away.
This idea of it's not just you working on your own, you have to be out there.
You have to put yourselves around people who know what they're talking about.
Look for the opportunities to develop the skills.
You've done a lot over the years and I love your energy levels.
(24:57):
When you told me your age, you won't say your age now, but when you told me your age, Iwas really surprised.
did not know that.
But you've got this philosophy, shall we say, of life, which I really love.
And it would be great if you could share that here.
Yeah, I mean my philosophy of life, whether you choose to see it in decades, whether youchoose to see it in some people believe in the seven year cycles, I've always been really
(25:21):
clear about what I want to do.
And I think if you know what you want and you can visualise yourself doing this, there's avery great chance, especially if you allow enough time and plan really well, that you will
achieve what you set out to achieve.
I'm a great believer in fulfillment as opposed to success.
(25:43):
And success for a lot of people is to do with material things.
So you're successful if you can afford holidays, a nice car, a nice house, etc.
But I believe that what's more important and maybe a little harder to attain is a sense offulfillment, a sense of well-being in here, a sense of mental balance.
(26:06):
so that you can enjoy your life, you can feel the joy, you can be inspired.
And no amount of money can buy that.
So you can't buy happiness with money.
Happiness has to come from within.
Contentment has to come from within.
What is it you want to do?
What sort of life do you want to live?
(26:27):
Because you may want to be famous.
But actually you could live the life of someone who's famous.
You could live in that way if you so choose.
But you've got to be able to be honest with yourself about what you want to do and howyou're going to do it.
And you've got to believe in yourself.
I always say to people, I quote Marianne Williamson, I think it is, her quote, which is,deepest fear is not that we're inadequate.
(26:56):
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
We ask ourselves, who am I to be fabulous, amazing, talented and gorgeous?
Actually, who are you not to be?
You're playing small does not serve the world.
By letting your light shine, you inspire others and allow them to do the same.
And you kind of have a responsibility to do that.
(27:17):
So I'm a great believer in that kind of philosophy in believing in yourself, in...
Being humble yet confident, not being braggadocious, but sharing in your enthusiasm,sharing with other people the opportunities.
It took me a long time to realise that not everybody's as enthusiastic as everything as Iam.
(27:42):
And I had to kind of back off with some people.
But there are enough people out there who are looking for some inspiration and who do wantto engage in creative activity,
meet other people, gain a skill.
So how can I inspire if I'm not inspired by others?
(28:03):
So what comes around goes around and I think we all have responsibility to do whatever wecan to be the best we can be and try and make the world a better place.
There are so many things that people are interested in, but when you're going throughschool or you're in a job, you think you are one thing, you are a marketer, you are a
(28:24):
designer, you are X, Y, Z, and that's it.
But actually, you see things in cycles of going through and doing them.
It's not like you get to your 40s and you think, oh, that's it, too late to do anythingelse.
Now you've got 10 years, and then you've got another 10 or 20 years to do differentthings.
Is there anything that you would like to leave our listeners with today?
Any final thoughts?
(28:45):
I think I've summed it up with the Our Deepest Fear quote.
I think it's important to be honest with yourself.
A lot of people have ambitions, but they're afraid to share them because they don't wantto be ridiculed or they don't believe, understandably, that they could achieve that
(29:05):
ambition.
And sometimes you've got to say it out loud in an empty room.
Say it out.
Well, really want to be...
uh Say it.
Say it out loud.
Look at yourself.
Say it.
Repeat it.
Who are you?
This is what I did.
Before I became an artistic director, I looked in the mirror and said, I am an artisticdirector.
(29:27):
I wasn't, and I didn't believe I ever could be, but I had to brainwash myself so that Icould do my elevator pitches whenever I met the right people or somebody of influence who
might be able to help me.
and they might ask what I'm doing or what my ambition is, I'd be able to tell themsuccinctly in a few well-rehearsed sentences.
(29:51):
And it always pays off.
Don't wait around.
Stop procrastinating.
Get on with it.
At the same time, it's fair to say, I didn't set up the company as registered company.
I think I was 49.
So it's never too late, which might sound like a contradiction to what I just said.
(30:13):
But if you can start now, do.
And if you think, you know, you're getting up in age, don't let that deter you.
Just give it a go.
And if you share it with people, people will help you.
You'll be surprised.
Keep it to yourself.
No one will know.
Share it with people.
They will help you and they want to be part of your journey.
(30:37):
and you'd be surprised most people want you to succeed.
That is the perfect place to leave this, Mary.
Thank you so much for time.
Thank you very much.
Hello everyone and welcome to My Local Marketer podcast.
I'm Maria and today I'm with Mary Genis who is Artistic Director and founder of CultureMix Arts.
Mary, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
How are you?
I'm fine, thank you.
Thank you for inviting me.
I'm really excited to be here.
Please, well, I should say I'm excited to be here because we're filming today in your baseon Queen's Walk.
(00:23):
This is Culture, Mixed Arts and Music Centre, a place where you can experience Caribbeanculture.
You can join still band workshops or you can learn to dance, do carnival dancing, or youcan join a reggae collective.
Or if you're a young person, you can join our jazz collective called Jazz Road Beat.
(00:44):
And there's lots of really interesting things that we do here.
Could you give a bit of introduction to yourself first of all as to how you got startedwith Culture Mix?
Yeah, I mean, I was inspired by my parents who came over during the wind rush from theCaribbean, from Trinidad and Tobago.
And I was really inspired by their story, especially my mother's story, where she left mytwo of my sisters in Trinidad to come here to start the process of getting our whole
(01:15):
family here so we could have better opportunities in education, employment.
and she really wanted the best for us and she felt this was a good way to do it, was tocome to Britain and start that process of bringing up her family here.
And when did you start Culture Mix Arts?
(01:35):
I started Culture Mix Arts in the 80s actually, but I didn't set it up as a proper companythat could employ people until early 2000, it was actually 2003.
So I'd been running it all that time as like a sole trader.
I did mainly costumes, fashion, bridal wear.
(01:58):
I was a tour manager in Europe and a musician.
I designed logos and designed flyers.
I did illustration.
I did a lot of different things, was a dancer as well.
And I wanted to kind of bring together my eclectic portfolio of work into one space.
(02:18):
And that was defined by the term the arts, which encapsulated all of those art forms frommusic, dance, theatre, all of it.
And I felt it was
a perfect fit for me that instead of feeling like a jack of all trades master of none Icould feel like I was a creative and artistic director.
(02:40):
Well, you say that phrase, Jack of all trades, master of none, but what I've noticed aboutyou is it started in the 80s and obviously then you set up as a company in 2003.
And this is what I also mean by intentional because all that time you were doing installedtraded bits, but you were doing other work, weren't you, in developing specific skills
that you thought you would need to develop culture mix.
(03:02):
it was the Reading Council and then obviously Arts Council.
Well, I didn't have any role models that I could ask advice or support from.
I had ambitions nevertheless and I couldn't afford to pay to go to study.
So I managed to get this really great job at Reading Borough Council as the ArtsDevelopment Officer there.
(03:28):
This was as a direct outcome of the MacPherson report which came about.
following the Stephen Lawrence murder to look at how this could happen in that time.
And it was deemed that, you know, there was institutional racism, nothing new for us now.
But the recommendations made by McPherson was that authorities and schools and all thepublic service providers should have more representation.
(03:58):
And I was one of those people that got the job as the
Arts Development Office for Cultural Diversity.
My job was to uh create opportunities for people of colour so that they could be better,so that they could learn more about setting up their own businesses, creative activities,
they could learn about tech and generally have a place in the society of the town at thetime.
(04:26):
And it was through that role that you learned about project management, wasn't it?
That was a skill that you focused on developing while you were in that position.
Yeah, and it was a revelation to me, to be honest, because this was before the internet.
So we're talking about, you know, mid to late nineties, but I had access to all thisinformation.
I was really intrigued and hungry for knowledge and had this ambition to set up my ownorganization, but didn't know how, but learned there how to manage projects, how to manage
(04:58):
budgets, how to set up partnerships.
coordinating events and all those basic skills you need for running your own company.
And then the role following that was Arts Council England, wasn't it, that you worked for?
Yeah, they had a similar role there.
So I was only working part-time at Reading.
(05:19):
And so I took on this role, which was again, Arts Development Office of Cultural Diversityfor the Regional Arts Council, which at that time was based in Winchester and later in
Brighton.
So for the Southeast region.
So I took on that role and there I learned how to manage larger budgets.
(05:40):
I learned more about strategy.
learned more about government strategy, about how central government works.
And I was quite frankly intrigued and fascinated drinking this all in because I wanted tobe able to do something good that would benefit not just my community but communities in
(06:00):
general and help people to be the best they can be and to be able to fulfil theirambitions to help make their dreams become a reality.
And this is what I find fascinating and why I've sort of doubled down on this, because youhad your soul trade, your business, you had culture mixed arts.
You had that throughout this whole time, but you were using these jobs in these positionsto get knowledge and develop specific skills that you could then, as we're going to find
(06:27):
out, apply later on to culture mixed arts.
And one of the things I think you got, correct me I'm wrong, from Arts Council England, isa look behind the scenes as to how the funding structure works, because
I should say now, I say at this stage that Culture Mix Arts, are an A-C-E-N-P-O.
Arts Council England National Portfolio Organisation.
(06:48):
Yes.
For anyone who isn't familiar with the Arts Council organisation, could you explain whatthat is and maybe how the background in Arts Council helped you understand?
oh
I was intrigued on how the funding system works.
And if you want to find something out, the best way to do that is to get in there and workin that environment, which is what I did.
(07:12):
And I wanted to find out how funding worked, what made you eligible to apply for it, whogot it and what they did with it.
I knew very little about this, but I learned a great deal there.
The national portfolio is
a group of about 990 organisations.
So Arts Council of England regularly funds these organisations to represent the very bestof British culture and arts to the rest of the world, to showcase art and culture, to
(07:44):
enable people to engage and access good quality, high quality arts and culture that is thebest representation of that in England.
And you have to apply.
and you get funding for maybe three or four years and it's quite arduous to process andthe eligibility.
(08:06):
But I really wanted to be part of this.
felt this would give Culture Mix the recognition it deserved because as you know, I don'tdo this on my own.
have this amazing team and therefore increase our opportunities in terms of networking, interms of generating income, in terms of
(08:27):
products and services we provide, increase the quality of that, improve that and grow andstill be sustainable.
And I think that goes to show that there is funding and there are opportunities out therefor businesses, but you've actually got to go find them, read the requirements, what's
required for the submission, and then go after it.
(08:49):
So there are funding pots out there.
Yes, there are, but they don't make it easy.
It's not just the Arts Council, it's not just Arts Council England that do funding.
You've got a plethora of other dozens, if not hundreds of other funding bodies that alsoyou can apply for funding for.
But you've got to go through the eligibility criteria.
(09:11):
The work that you're doing has to resonate with their principles and their objectives.
And there's all these...
various elements that you have to be able to fulfil to apply.
And then it's not a foregone conclusion.
You then go into the pot with all the many other applicants and as you can imagine withany funding opportunity there are much more applicants than there are funds to distribute.
(09:39):
So it's quite competitive but I grew to understand the process and how
you go about doing it, that doesn't mean you're always successful because we're not alwayssuccessful with funding applications.
But considering our demographic, if you like, we've done quite well.
On the back of the funding, could you share any tips for maybe businesses who are lookingto do something to help others or other groups who are looking to get some funding?
(10:10):
Well, I mean, it helps if you're a not-for-profit organization or even a charity.
We're not a charity.
We're a company limited by a guarantee with no share capital, which basically is anotherway of saying we're not-for-profit.
So we don't have shareholders.
We don't share the profits amongst ourselves or our board or anything like that.
(10:31):
It's returned back into the organization to build and grow the organization.
So it really helps to be.
a not-for-profit organization or a charity, it really helps for you to be organized andhave good financial systems in place.
It really helps you to have structure.
You don't have to be a large organization, but if you've got structure and you work withpeople and you successfully deliver your activities to people and you've got testimonials
(10:59):
to evidence that, that really helps.
But I always say this, it's really important that you use funding
not to sustain yourself, but to launch your project, to start something off, to enable youand your organisation to grow or to become as independent as is feasibly possible.
(11:20):
So it's really important that funding isn't seen as a form of income, but a way ofboosting or launching your project so that you can fly with it.
uh
Once the funding has run out, because it always does run out, you can fly with it anddevelop your project and grow your organisation to fulfil your ambitions.
(11:47):
think that's a really good point that you touched on there, the fact that funding is notjust an extra boost of money into your business, it's there for a specific project to get
it going off the blocks, so then you can hopefully maintain that.
It's not like you're going from one funding pot to another just to see yourself through.
So yeah, again, educate yourself on what funding is for and how you're going to use it,and that gives you the best chance of being successful.
(12:09):
Yes, and remember also that it's very competitive.
So you need to plan when in advance.
Planning a project for 12 months time, yes, apply for funding.
If you're planning a project for six weeks time, you're too late.
So you need that three or four months turnaround.
You need to start small, build up your relationship with the funding body, make surethey're aware of the work you're doing, ask them for advice.
(12:37):
and they want you to succeed so they can help.
We run the Creative Business Hub which is a place where people who want to set up businessor understand the funding system better, they can come and talk to us and we'll help them
and signpost them.
We don't do applications but we signpost and give some guidance on how.
(12:58):
You started Culture Mix in the 80s, as we've said.
You then spent 20 years developing your skills and doing different bits for Culture Mix.
And then in 2003, you set it up as a business.
Why did you decide to set it up as a business?
Why was that so important after being going as a sole trader for so long?
I realised that oh if I want to do something meaningful, what did people need?
(13:23):
They need employment, they need work, they need other things as well like housing,healthcare, food and water and so on.
But they need a job.
And if I could employ one or two people, then at the time felt I would have done somethinguseful for the world or for my community or the community is to...
(13:45):
create employment for people who want to work in the arts, realistic employmentopportunities.
So therefore I set it up as a company so that I could employ people on PAYE, pay as youearn, run a payroll and I was the first employee and to achieve the ambition I'd set for
(14:07):
myself, I only needed one more and now we have more than that.
now I have three full-time employees.
and about three part time as well.
a couple of your full-time employees, they actually came here, they, as part of theteaching program?
They were here as teenagers.
mean, we always offered work experience for year 10s, that's people around 15 years old,to come and work with us for a week or two to experience what it's like to be in the world
(14:40):
of work, to see what's expected of them and to have a broad brush view.
of all the different departments within an organisation, right from finance and budgets,right through to delivering activities or events.
So we worked with regional agencies to provide work experience.
(15:01):
And one of those was a young girl that came and I could see straight away that she had aspark about her.
There was something about her.
She was bright, she was articulate, she was only 15.
I could see something in her and here we are 18 or 19 years later and she's the businessdirector for Culture Mix Arts which means she runs the company so she does all the
(15:28):
finances, the funding, she doesn't do it single-handedly we work, obviously we worktogether but she manages the company and she's doing very well she's also on the board of
Youth Music which is a large national
funding body for young people that probably turns over about 13 million a year.
(15:48):
So it's a large organization.
And she's also the chair of the board of the East Midlands Caribbean Carnival ArtsNetwork, which manages four or five carnivals.
Her name's Nathifa Jordan.
Also create opportunities for people to come and play music in an orchestra together andpeople who love
(16:10):
being creative and having the opportunity to be creative with others.
And that's how I met a young man who at the time was 18, a young man called Paul Watson.
I was taken aback at his level of talent.
He's very good at the time and even more so now, a very good drummer, was absolutelypassionate about steel pan, could play several instruments, was smart, eloquent and had a
(16:38):
head on his shoulders that belied.
his youthfulness and that again was about 19 years ago.
He's now the music director for Culture Mix, he works full time and he runs all the steelbands.
We have about 15 school steel bands and we have a steel orchestra here called Reading HallSteel Percussion Orchestra with ensembles and workshops and we also run a reggae
(17:07):
collective.
So he runs all the music activity, act, culture mix and without Nathifa and Paul I couldn'tpossibly have achieved what I have achieved and it's majorly thanks to them and their
input and their passion that we share that's made this the success that it is today.
(17:32):
I think that's a really important lesson to take away.
It's not just have an employee, it's someone who you're developing and enhancing theirdreams and in return they'll help you with yours.
One of the things that you do is you're so good at making music accessible.
As you said, it's steel drums, that's your main forte, but I was surprised when you saidyou've got a passion for classical music and how you combine those two in order to make it
(17:56):
accessible to people who may not normally be exposed to steel drums.
Could you go a bit into that?
Well...
Steel pans are made from oil drums, so a lot of people do call them steel drums, which isfine.
They are an orchestral instrument, but they're seen as something a bit exotic from theCaribbean.
In fact, they're all over the world and there's a massive community.
(18:21):
First instrument I was taught as a child was the cello.
And I played in an ensemble and we did performances for dignitaries who came to ourconvent that I went to.
And the next instrument I learned was classical piano and I was really taken by the dramaand the passion of Beethoven sonatas and Chopin pieces and pieces by Brahms that were
(18:46):
dramatic and amazing in the way.
And I just would practice for hours and hours to learn to play them and then perform themat little local recitals.
And fast forward, know, the steel percussion orchestra has all the same values as anorchestral instrument.
The piano is a good example.
(19:07):
You've got down the low end, you've got the bass end in the middle, you've got, you know,the chords and the middle tone.
And at the top, you've got the melody, the tenor part and the soprano.
And you can create all of that with a steel band or steel orchestra.
And some of the work we've done in the past was to
(19:28):
try and influence educators, especially schools or people managing school cohorts on thebenefits of steel pans.
And we would use classical music to do this.
And I remember we would play stuff like Beethoven's Fur Elise, which is uh a commonpopular piece.
(19:48):
And at performances, we would play stuff like Sugar Plum the Fairy,
by Tchaikovsky, all on steel pans, all with teenagers, maybe Brahms Waltz No.
5.
We would play Carmen Overture by Bizet, and we would just use these pieces to demonstratethat this is a tuned percussion instrument.
(20:13):
has the same qualities as any other group of instruments, a philharmonic or whatever.
However,
The benefit here is it's a show and tell instrument.
It doesn't prohibit access to music or score.
In fact, it can be like an opening to that.
It can open the door to learning music in that sense.
(20:34):
But it enables people to see the correlation between what might be for them a familiarclassical music and to hear it played by a steel orchestra, by maybe a bunch of teenagers
as well would have the desired impact.
I think that's a brilliant lesson.
Meet people where they are, show them the connection, show them a way in and there's muchmore chance that they're actually going to find something in it for them rather than
(21:00):
trying to convince them that something which to them is very different is actually forthem.
So yeah, I really like that technique.
I mean, it's fair to say that half the battle of the last 20 years has been educatingpeople that this is a bona fide instrument with the same 12 notes that most other
instruments in the Western world has, from a piano, a guitar, a violin, oboe, all of them.
(21:25):
There's only 12 notes in the scale.
And the steel pan has those 12 notes and they have them in octaves from very low down tovery high up.
across the instrument range, which means you can play absolutely any type of music fromjazz, classical, pop, reggae, you know, anything you want you can play.
(21:47):
And of course, calypso music, which is what they were made for originally.
What are the challenges that you faced in implementing the vision that you have forCulture Mix?
The challenges of setting up any business, I mean, we can talk about culture mix, isconvincing people that you are serious about your vision and that your vision will be
(22:12):
effective, is deliverable, is feasible and realistic.
And you don't need many to support that.
One or two people is actually enough, but you've often got to wade through.
A lot of naysayers, a lot of people who will say to you, well, that's not going to work.
(22:33):
That's just not going to work.
I went to the bank.
I can't remember why I went.
Maybe it was for a loan or something.
I went to the bank.
said, I want to set up my own business.
And they said, what do you want to do?
And this was back in the eighties, maybe early nineties.
And I said, I want to go into schools and teach still pan music.
(22:55):
And they
had to peel themselves off the floor laughing.
They just thought it was so implausible and so ridiculous.
And now here we are all this time later and our school's portfolio is a mainstay incomegenerator for our business.
So you've really got to be able to take the knocks.
(23:17):
But for me, the challenges were mainly being taken seriously.
because it looks like you're trying to turn your hobby into a business, which in a way forsome people it could be perceived like that.
So you're playing music, you're going and doing gigs, you're doing workshops, you're doingall this fun stuff, you know, it's like, when are you going to get a proper job kind of
(23:42):
thing?
So that challenge to be taken seriously was one from which I was never deterred, not for asecond.
Because I knew that it would work, I just needed to get on with it.
I needed to find out how to run a business rather than how to deliver my vision for thatbusiness.
(24:06):
It was more about the essential elements, which is where the work at Reading BoroughCouncil came in, working at the Arts Council.
I was fortunate enough to join the Clore Fellowship and there I learnt a great deal.
And if you've got mentors and people who will advise you and you only need one or two keypeople that can see your vision and that can help you on your way, and that's usually
(24:33):
enough to enable you to go forward in a positive way.
think that's really inspiring and definitely a key message I'd like everyone to take away.
This idea of it's not just you working on your own, you have to be out there.
You have to put yourselves around people who know what they're talking about.
Look for the opportunities to develop the skills.
You've done a lot over the years and I love your energy levels.
(24:57):
When you told me your age, you won't say your age now, but when you told me your age, Iwas really surprised.
did not know that.
But you've got this philosophy, shall we say, of life, which I really love.
And it would be great if you could share that here.
Yeah, I mean my philosophy of life, whether you choose to see it in decades, whether youchoose to see it in some people believe in the seven year cycles, I've always been really
(25:21):
clear about what I want to do.
And I think if you know what you want and you can visualise yourself doing this, there's avery great chance, especially if you allow enough time and plan really well, that you will
achieve what you set out to achieve.
I'm a great believer in fulfillment as opposed to success.
(25:43):
And success for a lot of people is to do with material things.
So you're successful if you can afford holidays, a nice car, a nice house, etc.
But I believe that what's more important and maybe a little harder to attain is a sense offulfillment, a sense of well-being in here, a sense of mental balance.
(26:06):
so that you can enjoy your life, you can feel the joy, you can be inspired.
And no amount of money can buy that.
So you can't buy happiness with money.
Happiness has to come from within.
Contentment has to come from within.
What is it you want to do?
What sort of life do you want to live?
(26:27):
Because you may want to be famous.
But actually you could live the life of someone who's famous.
You could live in that way if you so choose.
But you've got to be able to be honest with yourself about what you want to do and howyou're going to do it.
And you've got to believe in yourself.
I always say to people, I quote Marianne Williamson, I think it is, her quote, which is,deepest fear is not that we're inadequate.
(26:56):
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
We ask ourselves, who am I to be fabulous, amazing, talented and gorgeous?
Actually, who are you not to be?
You're playing small does not serve the world.
By letting your light shine, you inspire others and allow them to do the same.
And you kind of have a responsibility to do that.
(27:17):
So I'm a great believer in that kind of philosophy in believing in yourself, in...
Being humble yet confident, not being braggadocious, but sharing in your enthusiasm,sharing with other people the opportunities.
It took me a long time to realise that not everybody's as enthusiastic as everything as Iam.
(27:42):
And I had to kind of back off with some people.
But there are enough people out there who are looking for some inspiration and who do wantto engage in creative activity,
meet other people, gain a skill.
So how can I inspire if I'm not inspired by others?
(28:03):
So what comes around goes around and I think we all have responsibility to do whatever wecan to be the best we can be and try and make the world a better place.
There are so many things that people are interested in, but when you're going throughschool or you're in a job, you think you are one thing, you are a marketer, you are a
(28:24):
designer, you are X, Y, Z, and that's it.
But actually, you see things in cycles of going through and doing them.
It's not like you get to your 40s and you think, oh, that's it, too late to do anythingelse.
Now you've got 10 years, and then you've got another 10 or 20 years to do differentthings.
Is there anything that you would like to leave our listeners with today?
Any final thoughts?
(28:45):
I think I've summed it up with the Our Deepest Fear quote.
I think it's important to be honest with yourself.
A lot of people have ambitions, but they're afraid to share them because they don't wantto be ridiculed or they don't believe, understandably, that they could achieve that
(29:05):
ambition.
And sometimes you've got to say it out loud in an empty room.
Say it out.
Well, really want to be...
uh Say it.
Say it out loud.
Look at yourself.
Say it.
Repeat it.
Who are you?
This is what I did.
Before I became an artistic director, I looked in the mirror and said, I am an artisticdirector.
(29:27):
I wasn't, and I didn't believe I ever could be, but I had to brainwash myself so that Icould do my elevator pitches whenever I met the right people or somebody of influence who
might be able to help me.
and they might ask what I'm doing or what my ambition is, I'd be able to tell themsuccinctly in a few well-rehearsed sentences.
(29:51):
And it always pays off.
Don't wait around.
Stop procrastinating.
Get on with it.
At the same time, it's fair to say, I didn't set up the company as registered company.
I think I was 49.
So it's never too late, which might sound like a contradiction to what I just said.
(30:13):
But if you can start now, do.
And if you think, you know, you're getting up in age, don't let that deter you.
Just give it a go.
And if you share it with people, people will help you.
You'll be surprised.
Keep it to yourself.
No one will know.
Share it with people.
They will help you and they want to be part of your journey.
(30:37):
and you'd be surprised most people want you to succeed.
That is the perfect place to leave this, Mary.
Thank you so much for time.
Thank you very much.
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