August 20, 2023 • 23 mins
Have you ever wondered about the power of diversity and inclusion to create change? This episode has all the answers!
Our phenomenal guest is none other than Rebecca Loy, the Diversity and Inclusion Partner at National Museums Liverpool. Rebecca's journey is brimming with resilience, from growing up in an encouraging environment to losing her sister to sickle cell disease, an experience that fuels her mission to make the disease curable. Join us, as she unveils her inspiring journey and how she uses adversity to empower and help people reach their potential.
We get a glimpse of Rebecca's role as a diversity and inclusion consultant and the shift she's noticed in people's attitudes over the years. She underscores the potency of language and the critical role of open hearts in embracing diversity. Hear about her future plans and how she aims to nurture a culture of acceptance. This episode is sure to leave you inspired, stirred, and armed with a fresh perspective on diversity and inclusion. Tune in and get ready to be transformed!
Find out more about We Are PoWEr here. 💫
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
The Northern Power Women podcast for your career
and your life, no matter whatbusiness you're in.
Hello, hello and welcome to theNorthern Power Women podcast.
My name is Simone and this isthe path to power season, and
every week I am talking to someof the most amazing changemakers
and trailblazers who are reallymaking a difference in and from
(00:41):
their communities bychallenging the norm and
creating the more inclusivecultures that we all know are so
critical to accelerate genderequality from the north.
And there's so much to learn.
From every single one of myguests I get all of the
inspiration, I get all of thetop tips and I feel like it is
just a personal one to onecoaching session for me often,
but I love it.
(01:01):
I love having these chats, andthis week is no different.
I'm delighted to introduce toyou Rebecca Loys, the Diversity
and Inclusion Partner atNational Museums Liverpool.
Rebecca, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Hello, thank you so much for having me, simone.
It's such an honour to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
And you know it was great to see you at the
celebration event a few weeksago, great to get people in a
room.
You know we were chatting, youknow the conversations that we
have sometimes before we pressrecord.
I think was really interestingand to get people together.
You know, I know COVID, thepandemic lockdown, as we're
always three years ago, but youtalk about, you know a lot of
(01:38):
what you do.
You love bringing peopletogether through the events,
through the hospitality events,your hospitality business.
Tell us just about NationalMuseums Liverpool, because
there's tons of them.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, so National Museums Liverpool has seven
sites actually, so they've allgot their own separate names.
So you might not recognise theNational Museums Liverpool tag,
but it's the InternationalSlavery Museum, the Maritime
Museum, the Museum of Liverpool.
We also have the Wales Museum,the Walker Art Gallery, lady
(02:10):
Leigh, but Art Gallery, andSuddly House.
So there are seven sites.
So the majority of them are inthe city centre, sort of the
waterfront, which you know.
Just I'm so lucky, I get towork in great locations, yeah,
and then of course, lady Leigh,but across the water, and Suddly
House fair in the south of.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Liverpool.
They've not been to those lasttwo.
So there you go.
That'll be on my list now formy summer, my summer in the city
and across.
So.
But I know you have thismassive passion to empower
people and you know to believein achieve their potential.
Where did that come from, gosh?
Oh?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I feel like I sort of grew up with it Right.
I suppose it's from your owninternal journey and your own
internal struggles and what youwant to overcome within yourself
.
You can recognise it so muchmore easily in others when you
see it in yourself, I suppose.
And so when you're able to,when you've had someone come
(03:04):
along and empower you and that'ssort of, you know, lit your
path and enabled you to kind ofaccelerate and push on, you want
to do the same for others whenyou see them at the same
milestones that you saw yourselfat, and so I think that's where
it came from.
For me, my mum is just anincredible woman and a really
(03:27):
encouraging character to me aswell.
She's completely blind,visually impaired, and has been
since she was 17.
My dad is also and, yeah, theymet at a school for the blind.
Very cute story.
But for them to see both ofthem live their life having to
overcome struggles and have themto, you know a lot of the time
(03:50):
navigate the barriers thatpeople had or you know the
perceptions that people had ofthem and say that they are not
over people's perception andthat they can do more than
people believe them to do, andto see them both walk that
journey, I suppose also as amassive motivator for me.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Absolutely do not underestimate.
I think sometimes people liketo, you know, put labels on and
assume, make assumptions, andyou know you talked about power.
Then you know we talk aboutthis being our pathway to power
and use your power for good, andI know you're very much against
when you like to do things onpurpose and with real purpose
and how.
How does having that purpose inin what you do affect the way
(04:31):
that you approach your career,and actually not just your
career, everything else thatyou're involved with?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, I think when you believe in a specific goal,
it can really take you somewhere, and especially when you find
people.
I think it's so incredible whenyou're surrounded by good people
who cheerlead you on in yourgoals and perhaps will join you
for the journey.
So, for example, the charityworker I do.
I fully believe that thedisease sickle cell I believe I
(05:01):
can see that in this lifetimebecome a curable disease.
There's been one or two caseswhere it's being cured, but they
just need more money andawareness around it, and it's
actually the largest geneticdisease in the UK.
And so what I found is that Ihad this vision of I'm going to
start some events and I'm goingto raise money through live
(05:21):
music events and people kind ofjoin me in that journey and you
know they believe authenticity.
You know, and when you'recoming from that place of
authenticity, hope, and youreally know that there's
something about that papers andthat you can achieve something,
people can believe in that andjoin you and join you in that
(05:43):
and are willing to travel alongthat road of you.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
And this is personal to you, isn't it?
Because you sadly lost yoursister.
I can't imagine how you must dothat.
What age was she when you losther?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
She was 35, so the age I am now she's just mind
boggling.
It's a crazy story as well,because she's born with sickle
cell disease, which is a geneticdisease, and there's different
variants of it.
You can have like be a carrier,be minor, or you can have like
full blown.
So she had full blown and she'dmanaged it all her life and I
(06:21):
probably I probably would saythat I didn't realise how
serious it was.
You know, I knew I'd seen hergo to hospital and knew the pain
that she suffered, but I didn'tthink that what would, what did
happen, would happen, and itwas again in Covid, where
there's just, you know, thedoctors are busier than usual,
and she couldn't go to thespecialists that she usually
(06:44):
goes to.
She'd had a fall.
It was naturally, you know thatshe'd had, you know, an attack
of sickle cell.
She'd had a fall, but she'smore susceptible to blood clots
because she's got sickle cell,and so it's that gap of
understanding between thespecialists and between the rest
of workers in, you know, in ourmedical services.
(07:04):
And so she'd she'd been givenblood thinners but instead of
having a scan, she'd been givena second x-ray for the fall.
So on the day that she was dueto have a scan.
She got an x-ray and thenthey'd rebooked the scan from
Monday and then on Sunday theblood clot went into her heart
(07:28):
and so it was just it'sdifficult to take because it's
kind of like the circumstancesof it, but for me, the the most,
the best thing I can do is takeall of that energy which is,
you know, it's grief, it'sdespair, it's you know,
intolerable pain, and I can turnthat into.
(07:52):
You know, I can switch thatdespair for hope and I can
switch that pain which willalways be there.
But you can have joy instead ofjust being in intolerable grief
, and you can do it throughmaking a difference for others.
And so when we're all in thatroom and you know I said, the
events so far have been there'sbeen two wonderful jazz events,
(08:15):
which is just so fun you can get.
You can get glammed up, wearlovely outfits and listen to
beautiful music.
And there's also been anotherlive music event which had, like
, various different artists, butwhen everyone's in the room for
a common cause but at the sametime, you know you're just
buying a ticket and then you'llbe in entertains.
You're having this wonderfulevening of entertainment, but
(08:37):
you know all of it is going togo towards making a difference.
It's just incredible.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Tell us where you can find out more information about
what you're doing and yourfundraising and your.
Have you got a date for yournext event?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
No, I think so at the moment, because it we were kind
of at the start, we kind of didthem sporadically, but we're
looking to have one in thewinter.
I would say, at the moment,just watch out for my LinkedIn
and I will definitely postsomething on there, but I think
we're going to perhaps developit into a proper website
specifically about the thingsthat we're doing.
(09:11):
I think we've made thatdecision on myself, and then
I've got my I say my partner inThrive instead of partner in
crime Hayley Kincaid, and she'san incredible musician and
vocalist in her own right, andso we kind of cover each other's
gaps.
I'm the kind of get everyonetogether and what should we do?
Let's do this, this, this, this, this, and then she's got all
(09:32):
of that technical skill.
So, yeah, we're probably goingto put something properly
together now at that stage.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
And the power of that , bringing people together to
educate, to remove thatdesperate despair and replace
that with that hope.
I think that's who you are,isn't it?
And using that gift of, likeyou say, love, the fact that you
cover each other the way youtalked about yourself and Hayley
then and bringing that musicinto it, and that music is so
important, isn't it?
(10:02):
Tell me about the work that youdo with the gospel choir.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, so again, that's another thing that Hayley
and I do together.
So we started that gosh must beeight years old now Seven,
seven towards eight years oldand it was just literally we
just wanted something in thecommunity, just something to
bring people together, and wejust thought we need something.
(10:26):
And again, hayley's a vocalcoach and she was doing some
choirs and she had a recoverychoir at the time and there's
unfortunately been a bit ofdecline in the recovery choir
and I said, well, it looks likeyou're gonna have a space open.
I think we could really getsomething going here.
And so we started the choir andagain I was sort of doing the
(10:49):
admin bits and Hayley wasdelivering the choir itself and
it's just grew and grew and it'sso lovely to see people who
were there eight years ago stillthere.
So it's not that we do get newmembers all the time and
sometimes people move on, leavethe city, whatever, but we've
still got this nucleus of peoplewho've been there from the very
(11:12):
beginning and it really hasbecome a family and sometimes we
do weddings, sometimes you'llsee us at various events, and it
literally is about spread andjoy.
It's sort of open to anyone.
It's not specificallyfaith-based, although there are
multiple faiths who are in thechoir, but it's just about
bringing joy through upliftedmusic and it really does make a
(11:36):
difference to everyone there andwherever we go.
We absolutely love it.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
And it's that transformative nature that music
brings, isn't it?
So you talk about what you'redoing around your fundraising
for in your sister's memory,what you do around the gospel
choir, that music can just.
You can see it in people's eyes, can't you?
When you see that music come toplay or bringing that choir
together, that motivates you on,doesn't it Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
And it was quite interesting.
I was at an event in Three Workat University College London
and it was thinking aboutstatues and how some of the
statues are being pulled downaround Black Lives Matter and
thinking about how we rememberin the UK and it was really
(12:22):
interesting.
One of the women there wastalking about, you know, the
importance of creativity tosocial activism and actually I
think it's really true that alot of the time when we're
trying to instill an importantmessage, sometimes we might want
to do it directly throughparticular words, a lecture, you
(12:43):
know, a serious conversation,but actually there are so many
channels to get across importantmessages and I think music, it
just it captures people, youknow, and I think it's one of
the best ways to do it.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Absolutely.
It's like just literally bringspeople together.
Talk to me about what led youto volunteer over in Brazil at
one of the largest valours overthere.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yeah, so it was part of my PhD.
Actually I'm at the very endnow, I'm just waiting for my
Viva but basically my PhD wasit's about social activism and
it's about oppression and howsocial activists perceive
oppression, and I did half ofthe study in Liverpool 8th.
(13:28):
But one of the key people who Iread and who I base the work of
is an educational philosophercalled Paulo Freire, and he was
Brazilian and some of hiswritings challenged me so much
that I sort of thought I'm nevergoing to understand this
without understanding hiscontext.
(13:48):
And so I amazed his decisionquite early on that I wanted to
do research over in Brazil, andso I went over there, to you
know, to carry out that research.
But yeah, what ended uphappening is I just made friends
who happened to be from Hacinha, which is, yeah, largest of
Eleanor Rio, and yeah, we, Iwould just be there so often,
(14:12):
and there was an NGO there thattaught English and I had some
experiences teaching English asa father language.
So I volunteered and I was I'djust be there a couple of times
a week and I must say they arethe most incredible places and
they are, you know, it's acompletely different world to
(14:33):
ours.
You'll find it's quiteinteresting.
Like I'm from Liverpool 8th,from Toxtif and some of the
things in the Favella you'dnever seen in Liverpool 8th,
sort of like you know people gottheir own, you know you'll see
all the biggest banks in thecountry in the Favella but at
the same time you don't haveproper sewerage systems and
proper water systems.
So it's really kind of you knowtwo opposite things happening
(14:59):
at the same time and you knowyou'll see there's jobs that in
our country you know were quiteyou know jobs that would have
you in quite a comfortableposition, sort of electricians,
plumbers.
They're kind of jobs that inBrazil you end up in the Favella
.
So it's not necessarily kind ofour perception of people in
(15:21):
poverty, but at the same timethere is absolute poverty and
absolute struggle.
Yeah, and I found it sofriendly, so welcoming and it
definitely it changed my lifebeing over there.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
What did you bring back into Liverpool 8th?
What did you bring back intoLiverpool with you?
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I think I brought back a more definitely a more
confident version of myself,because to go over there I had
to do so many things I didn'tthink I could do.
I had to learn Portuguese,which is a very tough language
to learn, and I think what Idiscovered as well about one of
(16:05):
the things about learning thelanguages you know, for me, I
was always quite okay at schooland I kind of understood things
quite quickly.
But with a language there's noway to hide.
If you forget something, youjust forget something, and so
you'll constantly happen to makemistakes, and that was really
tough for me.
So just every day walkingaround making mistakes and
people correcting me all daylong, and so, and then to sort
(16:28):
of embrace that and sort of beokay with actually the only way
to grow and develop is throughembracing the fact that you go
into making mistakes, and Ithink that's definitely
something that you can bringinto.
You know your career trajectoryand your development path, you
know, instead of making it intoa big deal, just being like,
(16:48):
okay, let's pivot, let's moveforward.
So definitely brought that back, gosh.
So much Just, I think, a happierattitude towards life as well.
Just joy.
Brazilians are so joyful andyou know they do have tough
circumstances.
It is tough, but they're sortof it's really interesting.
(17:11):
They will say to themselves theway that you recognize a
Brazilian is the smile on theface, because they're always
smiling, they're always laughing, they always sort of, yeah,
it's bad, but what can we doother than laugh, you know, and
they really do sense a joy, andso I think that's definitely
something that I brought back aswell.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yeah, well, that's where you're.
I think you just have it's thathope, isn't it?
That eternal hope, isn't it?
And positivity that I thinkjust radiates out of you.
And you know you've worked sucha lot around.
You know, when you're workaround your consulting in
relation to diversity andinclusion, sometimes I feel
we're going forward, sometimes Ithink we're going backwards to
coming forwards.
What other kind of big changesthat you've seen over the last
(17:51):
so four years or so, sinceyou've been, you know, working
across this?
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I think the biggest change is hearts that are
willing to listen, and I thinkthat's the most important thing,
and I think it's actuallysometimes I enter spaces where I
don't necessarily if I'm givinga talk, I don't necessarily
feel like I have that in theroom, and so to understand that
that's what I need to do, I needto first of all get to the
(18:18):
place.
We've got hearts that are opento listen before I really get
into the message of what I wantto say.
That's always what I aim tobring.
So if I'm in a room that seemsquite close, sometimes I walk
into the room and people justgot their arms crossed and
they're very much Like defensive.
And so to sort of convey amessage of you know, we're all
in this together, we're all on agrowth journey.
(18:38):
We're all having to deal with,you know, be it internalized and
Racism or misogyny or whateverit is there's.
You know, we're under theshadow of the biggest empire
that ever existed.
There's going to be inherentlegacies that all of us have to
kind of undo a bit.
And it's not, you know, it'snot about pointing fingers and
(19:00):
saying who's wrong and who'sright.
It's about that collectiveUnderstanding that actually, in
our heart of hearts.
The majority of us want to justbe good people and get along,
but the way to do that is byquestioning a few things within
ourselves so that we're notunconsciously causing harm to
others.
And so, yeah, I think thebiggest thing for me is that
(19:21):
there are more open hearts thanperhaps the way about other
Times.
I think as well, there's been amassive development in language.
People are able to use moreLanguage which acutely and
specifically Attends to theexperience they have.
There's been a you know,there's so many more people
writing, and so that reallyhelps as well is that there's
(19:45):
now these experiences thatpeople can really name and go.
That's what it is.
It was a microaggression or youknow, that's what it was.
It felt like this and you knowthese.
Having that and a richerliteracy around experiences for
diverse and peoples is just.
It really helps.
(20:05):
It really helps to be able toconvey messages to change and
it's funny.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
You talked about learning Portuguese and
Constantly sort of repeating,constantly making mistakes.
I think that's you justoccurred to me, that's you know.
You talked about open hearts.
You talked about the language.
It's, people have used thewrong language or been fearful
of using language for yearsbecause they're like, oh, I
don't want to say that out loud,that's not quite right, you
(20:30):
know, and so therefore sometimeswon't say anything.
So I think there's somethingreally in that language.
And finally, finally, finally,and what's next for you?
Your PhD, volunteering, charity, gathering, music, you know,
consultancy.
What's next for you?
What should we look out for?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Oh, I think and I'm really, I'm really interested,
of course, you know, primarilything is is what I'm doing at
the museums and seeing growthhappen in the diversity,
inclusion work and the strategythere.
So I just want to plow,continue plowing efforts to
create a platform of sort of youknow, a foundational basis of
(21:08):
you know, hopefully, what willbe a department, you know, a
full-on big department which caninfluence all the different
sites and and that can Reallyjust create that new culture
where the language is normalized.
You know, I, I feel likediversity of inclusion needs to
be like Peter.
You know we think of Peter asas English as anything, but you
(21:30):
know it's Italian, you know whenit becomes that normal.
So that that's what I want todo in the museums, I think.
And Consultancy seems to begrowing and growing,
particularly with the end of mystudies.
I see myself writing, I seemyself writing, I see myself
doing more events and and andreally growing in the
(21:52):
consultancy side of things.
And I wrote about, I wrote alot about Representation,
belonging and shame as part ofmy thesis and I think there's
such important areas, so tobuild it into music practice but
also to be able to write aboutit and get more information out
there for everybody.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
I think that's it's gonna be one of the next big
things, yeah keep an eye onRebecca's LinkedIn profile
because this is an amazing womanwho said at the start every
week I'm talking to fantastictrailblazers.
People are literally shiftingand changing and driving the
culture change.
Rebecca, is been an absolutejoy to have you on this week's
(22:30):
podcast.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to join us.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Oh thank you so much for having me, simone.
It's been incredible.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Oh, I thank all you for listening.
Isn't it amazing?
Every week, these conversations, you know, those sort of the
talk about language of the day,the talk about hope, the talk
about you know, sort of thatopen heart it's.
You know I always go away saythis is these are my one-to-one
personal coaching sessions, butyou know I love these weekly
episodes, so please do subscribeso you don't miss an episode,
(22:57):
as we are on our pathway topower, and power for good.
If you'd like to join us onthis mission of professional and
personal development, please dostay connected on everything
that we're doing is on ourdigital hub.
We are powernet, and please doleave a review.
Get in touch on all of oursocials, at the North Power
women on Twitter and northernpower men on all the others.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
(23:18):
My name is Simone.
This is the Northern Powerwomen podcast.
What goes on media production?
The Northern Power Women podcast for your career
and your life, no matter whatbusiness you're in.
Hello, hello and welcome to theNorthern Power Women podcast.
My name is Simone and this isthe path to power season, and
every week I am talking to someof the most amazing changemakers
and trailblazers who are reallymaking a difference in and from
(00:41):
their communities bychallenging the norm and
creating the more inclusivecultures that we all know are so
critical to accelerate genderequality from the north.
And there's so much to learn.
From every single one of myguests I get all of the
inspiration, I get all of thetop tips and I feel like it is
just a personal one to onecoaching session for me often,
but I love it.
(01:01):
I love having these chats, andthis week is no different.
I'm delighted to introduce toyou Rebecca Loys, the Diversity
and Inclusion Partner atNational Museums Liverpool.
Rebecca, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Hello, thank you so much for having me, simone.
It's such an honour to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
And you know it was great to see you at the
celebration event a few weeksago, great to get people in a
room.
You know we were chatting, youknow the conversations that we
have sometimes before we pressrecord.
I think was really interestingand to get people together.
You know, I know COVID, thepandemic lockdown, as we're
always three years ago, but youtalk about, you know a lot of
(01:38):
what you do.
You love bringing peopletogether through the events,
through the hospitality events,your hospitality business.
Tell us just about NationalMuseums Liverpool, because
there's tons of them.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, so National Museums Liverpool has seven
sites actually, so they've allgot their own separate names.
So you might not recognise theNational Museums Liverpool tag,
but it's the InternationalSlavery Museum, the Maritime
Museum, the Museum of Liverpool.
We also have the Wales Museum,the Walker Art Gallery, lady
(02:10):
Leigh, but Art Gallery, andSuddly House.
So there are seven sites.
So the majority of them are inthe city centre, sort of the
waterfront, which you know.
Just I'm so lucky, I get towork in great locations, yeah,
and then of course, lady Leigh,but across the water, and Suddly
House fair in the south of.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Liverpool.
They've not been to those lasttwo.
So there you go.
That'll be on my list now formy summer, my summer in the city
and across.
So.
But I know you have thismassive passion to empower
people and you know to believein achieve their potential.
Where did that come from, gosh?
Oh?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I feel like I sort of grew up with it Right.
I suppose it's from your owninternal journey and your own
internal struggles and what youwant to overcome within yourself
.
You can recognise it so muchmore easily in others when you
see it in yourself, I suppose.
And so when you're able to,when you've had someone come
(03:04):
along and empower you and that'ssort of, you know, lit your
path and enabled you to kind ofaccelerate and push on, you want
to do the same for others whenyou see them at the same
milestones that you saw yourselfat, and so I think that's where
it came from.
For me, my mum is just anincredible woman and a really
(03:27):
encouraging character to me aswell.
She's completely blind,visually impaired, and has been
since she was 17.
My dad is also and, yeah, theymet at a school for the blind.
Very cute story.
But for them to see both ofthem live their life having to
overcome struggles and have themto, you know a lot of the time
(03:50):
navigate the barriers thatpeople had or you know the
perceptions that people had ofthem and say that they are not
over people's perception andthat they can do more than
people believe them to do, andto see them both walk that
journey, I suppose also as amassive motivator for me.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Absolutely do not underestimate.
I think sometimes people liketo, you know, put labels on and
assume, make assumptions, andyou know you talked about power.
Then you know we talk aboutthis being our pathway to power
and use your power for good, andI know you're very much against
when you like to do things onpurpose and with real purpose
and how.
How does having that purpose inin what you do affect the way
(04:31):
that you approach your career,and actually not just your
career, everything else thatyou're involved with?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, I think when you believe in a specific goal,
it can really take you somewhere, and especially when you find
people.
I think it's so incredible whenyou're surrounded by good people
who cheerlead you on in yourgoals and perhaps will join you
for the journey.
So, for example, the charityworker I do.
I fully believe that thedisease sickle cell I believe I
(05:01):
can see that in this lifetimebecome a curable disease.
There's been one or two caseswhere it's being cured, but they
just need more money andawareness around it, and it's
actually the largest geneticdisease in the UK.
And so what I found is that Ihad this vision of I'm going to
start some events and I'm goingto raise money through live
(05:21):
music events and people kind ofjoin me in that journey and you
know they believe authenticity.
You know, and when you'recoming from that place of
authenticity, hope, and youreally know that there's
something about that papers andthat you can achieve something,
people can believe in that andjoin you and join you in that
(05:43):
and are willing to travel alongthat road of you.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
And this is personal to you, isn't it?
Because you sadly lost yoursister.
I can't imagine how you must dothat.
What age was she when you losther?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
She was 35, so the age I am now she's just mind
boggling.
It's a crazy story as well,because she's born with sickle
cell disease, which is a geneticdisease, and there's different
variants of it.
You can have like be a carrier,be minor, or you can have like
full blown.
So she had full blown and she'dmanaged it all her life and I
(06:21):
probably I probably would saythat I didn't realise how
serious it was.
You know, I knew I'd seen hergo to hospital and knew the pain
that she suffered, but I didn'tthink that what would, what did
happen, would happen, and itwas again in Covid, where
there's just, you know, thedoctors are busier than usual,
and she couldn't go to thespecialists that she usually
(06:44):
goes to.
She'd had a fall.
It was naturally, you know thatshe'd had, you know, an attack
of sickle cell.
She'd had a fall, but she'smore susceptible to blood clots
because she's got sickle cell,and so it's that gap of
understanding between thespecialists and between the rest
of workers in, you know, in ourmedical services.
(07:04):
And so she'd she'd been givenblood thinners but instead of
having a scan, she'd been givena second x-ray for the fall.
So on the day that she was dueto have a scan.
She got an x-ray and thenthey'd rebooked the scan from
Monday and then on Sunday theblood clot went into her heart
(07:28):
and so it was just it'sdifficult to take because it's
kind of like the circumstancesof it, but for me, the the most,
the best thing I can do is takeall of that energy which is,
you know, it's grief, it'sdespair, it's you know,
intolerable pain, and I can turnthat into.
(07:52):
You know, I can switch thatdespair for hope and I can
switch that pain which willalways be there.
But you can have joy instead ofjust being in intolerable grief
, and you can do it throughmaking a difference for others.
And so when we're all in thatroom and you know I said, the
events so far have been there'sbeen two wonderful jazz events,
(08:15):
which is just so fun you can get.
You can get glammed up, wearlovely outfits and listen to
beautiful music.
And there's also been anotherlive music event which had, like
, various different artists, butwhen everyone's in the room for
a common cause but at the sametime, you know you're just
buying a ticket and then you'llbe in entertains.
You're having this wonderfulevening of entertainment, but
(08:37):
you know all of it is going togo towards making a difference.
It's just incredible.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Tell us where you can find out more information about
what you're doing and yourfundraising and your.
Have you got a date for yournext event?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
No, I think so at the moment, because it we were kind
of at the start, we kind of didthem sporadically, but we're
looking to have one in thewinter.
I would say, at the moment,just watch out for my LinkedIn
and I will definitely postsomething on there, but I think
we're going to perhaps developit into a proper website
specifically about the thingsthat we're doing.
(09:11):
I think we've made thatdecision on myself, and then
I've got my I say my partner inThrive instead of partner in
crime Hayley Kincaid, and she'san incredible musician and
vocalist in her own right, andso we kind of cover each other's
gaps.
I'm the kind of get everyonetogether and what should we do?
Let's do this, this, this, this, this, and then she's got all
(09:32):
of that technical skill.
So, yeah, we're probably goingto put something properly
together now at that stage.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
And the power of that , bringing people together to
educate, to remove thatdesperate despair and replace
that with that hope.
I think that's who you are,isn't it?
And using that gift of, likeyou say, love, the fact that you
cover each other the way youtalked about yourself and Hayley
then and bringing that musicinto it, and that music is so
important, isn't it?
(10:02):
Tell me about the work that youdo with the gospel choir.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, so again, that's another thing that Hayley
and I do together.
So we started that gosh must beeight years old now Seven,
seven towards eight years oldand it was just literally we
just wanted something in thecommunity, just something to
bring people together, and wejust thought we need something.
(10:26):
And again, hayley's a vocalcoach and she was doing some
choirs and she had a recoverychoir at the time and there's
unfortunately been a bit ofdecline in the recovery choir
and I said, well, it looks likeyou're gonna have a space open.
I think we could really getsomething going here.
And so we started the choir andagain I was sort of doing the
(10:49):
admin bits and Hayley wasdelivering the choir itself and
it's just grew and grew and it'sso lovely to see people who
were there eight years ago stillthere.
So it's not that we do get newmembers all the time and
sometimes people move on, leavethe city, whatever, but we've
still got this nucleus of peoplewho've been there from the very
(11:12):
beginning and it really hasbecome a family and sometimes we
do weddings, sometimes you'llsee us at various events, and it
literally is about spread andjoy.
It's sort of open to anyone.
It's not specificallyfaith-based, although there are
multiple faiths who are in thechoir, but it's just about
bringing joy through upliftedmusic and it really does make a
(11:36):
difference to everyone there andwherever we go.
We absolutely love it.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
And it's that transformative nature that music
brings, isn't it?
So you talk about what you'redoing around your fundraising
for in your sister's memory,what you do around the gospel
choir, that music can just.
You can see it in people's eyes, can't you?
When you see that music come toplay or bringing that choir
together, that motivates you on,doesn't it Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
And it was quite interesting.
I was at an event in Three Workat University College London
and it was thinking aboutstatues and how some of the
statues are being pulled downaround Black Lives Matter and
thinking about how we rememberin the UK and it was really
(12:22):
interesting.
One of the women there wastalking about, you know, the
importance of creativity tosocial activism and actually I
think it's really true that alot of the time when we're
trying to instill an importantmessage, sometimes we might want
to do it directly throughparticular words, a lecture, you
(12:43):
know, a serious conversation,but actually there are so many
channels to get across importantmessages and I think music, it
just it captures people, youknow, and I think it's one of
the best ways to do it.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Absolutely.
It's like just literally bringspeople together.
Talk to me about what led youto volunteer over in Brazil at
one of the largest valours overthere.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yeah, so it was part of my PhD.
Actually I'm at the very endnow, I'm just waiting for my
Viva but basically my PhD wasit's about social activism and
it's about oppression and howsocial activists perceive
oppression, and I did half ofthe study in Liverpool 8th.
(13:28):
But one of the key people who Iread and who I base the work of
is an educational philosophercalled Paulo Freire, and he was
Brazilian and some of hiswritings challenged me so much
that I sort of thought I'm nevergoing to understand this
without understanding hiscontext.
(13:48):
And so I amazed his decisionquite early on that I wanted to
do research over in Brazil, andso I went over there, to you
know, to carry out that research.
But yeah, what ended uphappening is I just made friends
who happened to be from Hacinha, which is, yeah, largest of
Eleanor Rio, and yeah, we, Iwould just be there so often,
(14:12):
and there was an NGO there thattaught English and I had some
experiences teaching English asa father language.
So I volunteered and I was I'djust be there a couple of times
a week and I must say they arethe most incredible places and
they are, you know, it's acompletely different world to
(14:33):
ours.
You'll find it's quiteinteresting.
Like I'm from Liverpool 8th,from Toxtif and some of the
things in the Favella you'dnever seen in Liverpool 8th,
sort of like you know people gottheir own, you know you'll see
all the biggest banks in thecountry in the Favella but at
the same time you don't haveproper sewerage systems and
proper water systems.
So it's really kind of you knowtwo opposite things happening
(14:59):
at the same time and you knowyou'll see there's jobs that in
our country you know were quiteyou know jobs that would have
you in quite a comfortableposition, sort of electricians,
plumbers.
They're kind of jobs that inBrazil you end up in the Favella
.
So it's not necessarily kind ofour perception of people in
(15:21):
poverty, but at the same timethere is absolute poverty and
absolute struggle.
Yeah, and I found it sofriendly, so welcoming and it
definitely it changed my lifebeing over there.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
What did you bring back into Liverpool 8th?
What did you bring back intoLiverpool with you?
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I think I brought back a more definitely a more
confident version of myself,because to go over there I had
to do so many things I didn'tthink I could do.
I had to learn Portuguese,which is a very tough language
to learn, and I think what Idiscovered as well about one of
(16:05):
the things about learning thelanguages you know, for me, I
was always quite okay at schooland I kind of understood things
quite quickly.
But with a language there's noway to hide.
If you forget something, youjust forget something, and so
you'll constantly happen to makemistakes, and that was really
tough for me.
So just every day walkingaround making mistakes and
people correcting me all daylong, and so, and then to sort
(16:28):
of embrace that and sort of beokay with actually the only way
to grow and develop is throughembracing the fact that you go
into making mistakes, and Ithink that's definitely
something that you can bringinto.
You know your career trajectoryand your development path, you
know, instead of making it intoa big deal, just being like,
(16:48):
okay, let's pivot, let's moveforward.
So definitely brought that back, gosh.
So much Just, I think, a happierattitude towards life as well.
Just joy.
Brazilians are so joyful andyou know they do have tough
circumstances.
It is tough, but they're sortof it's really interesting.
(17:11):
They will say to themselves theway that you recognize a
Brazilian is the smile on theface, because they're always
smiling, they're always laughing, they always sort of, yeah,
it's bad, but what can we doother than laugh, you know, and
they really do sense a joy, andso I think that's definitely
something that I brought back aswell.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yeah, well, that's where you're.
I think you just have it's thathope, isn't it?
That eternal hope, isn't it?
And positivity that I thinkjust radiates out of you.
And you know you've worked sucha lot around.
You know, when you're workaround your consulting in
relation to diversity andinclusion, sometimes I feel
we're going forward, sometimes Ithink we're going backwards to
coming forwards.
What other kind of big changesthat you've seen over the last
(17:51):
so four years or so, sinceyou've been, you know, working
across this?
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I think the biggest change is hearts that are
willing to listen, and I thinkthat's the most important thing,
and I think it's actuallysometimes I enter spaces where I
don't necessarily if I'm givinga talk, I don't necessarily
feel like I have that in theroom, and so to understand that
that's what I need to do, I needto first of all get to the
(18:18):
place.
We've got hearts that are opento listen before I really get
into the message of what I wantto say.
That's always what I aim tobring.
So if I'm in a room that seemsquite close, sometimes I walk
into the room and people justgot their arms crossed and
they're very much Like defensive.
And so to sort of convey amessage of you know, we're all
in this together, we're all on agrowth journey.
(18:38):
We're all having to deal with,you know, be it internalized and
Racism or misogyny or whateverit is there's.
You know, we're under theshadow of the biggest empire
that ever existed.
There's going to be inherentlegacies that all of us have to
kind of undo a bit.
And it's not, you know, it'snot about pointing fingers and
(19:00):
saying who's wrong and who'sright.
It's about that collectiveUnderstanding that actually, in
our heart of hearts.
The majority of us want to justbe good people and get along,
but the way to do that is byquestioning a few things within
ourselves so that we're notunconsciously causing harm to
others.
And so, yeah, I think thebiggest thing for me is that
(19:21):
there are more open hearts thanperhaps the way about other
Times.
I think as well, there's been amassive development in language.
People are able to use moreLanguage which acutely and
specifically Attends to theexperience they have.
There's been a you know,there's so many more people
writing, and so that reallyhelps as well is that there's
(19:45):
now these experiences thatpeople can really name and go.
That's what it is.
It was a microaggression or youknow, that's what it was.
It felt like this and you knowthese.
Having that and a richerliteracy around experiences for
diverse and peoples is just.
It really helps.
(20:05):
It really helps to be able toconvey messages to change and
it's funny.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
You talked about learning Portuguese and
Constantly sort of repeating,constantly making mistakes.
I think that's you justoccurred to me, that's you know.
You talked about open hearts.
You talked about the language.
It's, people have used thewrong language or been fearful
of using language for yearsbecause they're like, oh, I
don't want to say that out loud,that's not quite right, you
(20:30):
know, and so therefore sometimeswon't say anything.
So I think there's somethingreally in that language.
And finally, finally, finally,and what's next for you?
Your PhD, volunteering, charity, gathering, music, you know,
consultancy.
What's next for you?
What should we look out for?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Oh, I think and I'm really, I'm really interested,
of course, you know, primarilything is is what I'm doing at
the museums and seeing growthhappen in the diversity,
inclusion work and the strategythere.
So I just want to plow,continue plowing efforts to
create a platform of sort of youknow, a foundational basis of
(21:08):
you know, hopefully, what willbe a department, you know, a
full-on big department which caninfluence all the different
sites and and that can Reallyjust create that new culture
where the language is normalized.
You know, I, I feel likediversity of inclusion needs to
be like Peter.
You know we think of Peter asas English as anything, but you
(21:30):
know it's Italian, you know whenit becomes that normal.
So that that's what I want todo in the museums, I think.
And Consultancy seems to begrowing and growing,
particularly with the end of mystudies.
I see myself writing, I seemyself writing, I see myself
doing more events and and andreally growing in the
(21:52):
consultancy side of things.
And I wrote about, I wrote alot about Representation,
belonging and shame as part ofmy thesis and I think there's
such important areas, so tobuild it into music practice but
also to be able to write aboutit and get more information out
there for everybody.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
I think that's it's gonna be one of the next big
things, yeah keep an eye onRebecca's LinkedIn profile
because this is an amazing womanwho said at the start every
week I'm talking to fantastictrailblazers.
People are literally shiftingand changing and driving the
culture change.
Rebecca, is been an absolutejoy to have you on this week's
(22:30):
podcast.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to join us.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Oh thank you so much for having me, simone.
It's been incredible.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Oh, I thank all you for listening.
Isn't it amazing?
Every week, these conversations, you know, those sort of the
talk about language of the day,the talk about hope, the talk
about you know, sort of thatopen heart it's.
You know I always go away saythis is these are my one-to-one
personal coaching sessions, butyou know I love these weekly
episodes, so please do subscribeso you don't miss an episode,
(22:57):
as we are on our pathway topower, and power for good.
If you'd like to join us onthis mission of professional and
personal development, please dostay connected on everything
that we're doing is on ourdigital hub.
We are powernet, and please doleave a review.
Get in touch on all of oursocials, at the North Power
women on Twitter and northernpower men on all the others.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
(23:18):
My name is Simone.
This is the Northern Powerwomen podcast.
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