December 12, 2024 • 47 mins
This week we chat with Dr. Kimberly Rose Pendleton, an author & expert in cultivating intimacy with yourself, healing trauma, and helping women gain confidence. She shares with us why pleasure is the key to creating a life better than we could imagine. She has loads of free tools on her website linked below. You can also follow her on Instagram for tons of free information or engage in her numerous coaching programs and courses.
In our chat we dig into why pleasure is so taboo in our society and how we can utilize pleasure, in all its forms, to heal and grow into our most integrated versions of self.
https://www.kimberlyrosependleton.com/
https://www.kimberlyrosependleton.com/free
https://www.instagram.com/drkimberlyrosependleton/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Candice (00:01):
Hello, and welcome to today's episode of Open Wounds
podcast. I want to welcome ourguest for today, Kimberly Rose
Pendleton. I should say doctor.It's very important to
acknowledge all your hard work.I know.
It's You know? So frustratingfor I at least my opinion. When
somebody's like, I went tocollege for 8 years. I'm earning
(00:23):
that title, doctor. So doctorKimberly Rose Pendleton, she is
a coach.
She is an author. I know she,has a large, you know, Instagram
following, and she is an expertin a couple different areas. But
I wanna let you tell everyonewhat you feel like, you know,
(00:44):
like a little intro aboutyourself.
Kimberly (00:46):
Oh, thank you so much. Yeah. So happy to be here. I am,
it's true, a doctor. I got mydoctorate in women's studies and
didn't plan to turn that into acoaching business for women.
But looking back, it kind of allfeels like it makes sense. Like
(01:06):
it was bigger than me. But I,yeah, I run an intimacy coaching
business called Uncover. That isjust such a joy of my life. And
the first book that I everwrote, Get Uncovered, is kind of
the like, do it yourself versionof all of that intimacy
coaching.
(01:26):
And I do feel like a big part ofmy work ended up being what I
had studied in school, but thenlike combined with the tools of
coaching, which just take it allto the next level. So instead of
it just being like that academicsetting where you're like
reading and like maybe thinkinga little bit about it, it's
(01:47):
like, I feel like coachingbrought it all down into the
body. It was like, okay, like wecan actually apply some of this.
So I'm just so so happy at theway that it's all ended up. Now
I'm here with you, and I feellike, I wouldn't get to do this
if I were a professor like I hadplanned.
Candice (02:08):
Yeah. The, the other thing too I noticed and how I
like, my friend, Loyola,connected me with you, is
because I have, like, a lot of,history with Christianity and
evangelicalism anddeconstruction. And so I was
like, yeah. This is what, youknow, I like to talk about. And
(02:28):
she's like, oh, you should talkto Kimberly because, like,
that's, like, in her wheelhouse.
And so I know that, like, a lotof your work focuses on
pleasure, which just as ageneral rule, that's kind of a
taboo topic even in nonChristian circles. Totally. But
even more so in Christiancircles because I mean, I don't
(02:48):
like I think most peopleassociate pleasure with sex. But
even if you look at, like,pleasure from, like, just an
enjoying life standpoint
Kimberly (02:56):
Yeah.
Candice (02:57):
There's a lot of stuff in religion that is very, like,
that's a sin. Right? Even tojust enjoy lying in bed or
something. Right? So can youtalk a little bit about, like,
how you landed on pleasure andwhy that was something you felt
was so important to focus on?
Kimberly (03:12):
Yeah. Thank you. I mean, really, I think you nailed
a huge piece of the puzzle, andI do have a Christian
background, like you said, andit kind of makes the pieces more
obvious, but it's true that evenwith my clients who are like,
no, I like have never set footin a church. And yet I feel so
(03:33):
guilty taking time off orordering dessert or enjoying
something sex or anything, youknow, I think you really hit the
nail on the head, but there islike this feeling that it's bad.
And this feeling that, you know,for me, the language was often
like it's sinful.
(03:54):
You know, it felt like anythingyou want is probably bad for
you.
Candice (03:59):
Yeah. Yeah.
Kimberly (04:00):
Which is just such a complicated thing to teach,
especially women. So what Ifound is that the pleasure work
really unexpectedly for me cameout of trauma healing and
starting to put a piece togetherthat I still think feels a
(04:21):
little edgy to talk about aroundhow if you've taught like a
whole generation of women thatwhat feels good to them is bad.
They are like so susceptible totrauma. And like, well, how
would we even know? Like, whatcould consent even mean?
(04:41):
What could desire even mean?Cause like anything in us would
have been like, oh, if it feelsgood, it's bad. If I want it,
it's bad. If I don't want it,maybe that's good. Like just so
complicated.
And so my research was abouttrauma and sex trafficking in
particular and kind of like theways that trauma impacts women
(05:02):
in particular. And I started tosee like pleasure as this like
really understudied, but likekind of minority voice path of
like healing and helping,especially like women who were
overcoming trauma, kind of likelearn to trust their bodies
again. And I started to seelike, oh my God, like there's so
(05:26):
much even like societal traumaand so much going on for so many
of us where we were just taughtlike so much about sex and
enjoyment and all these thingsthat are leaving us feeling,
like completely confused aboutlike who we are and what we
want. And it started to feellike pleasure was this like
(05:50):
missing piece, like thismedicine that could really help.
And it's crazy because, youknow, for most of my clients and
for me, the littlest things werelike feeling scary already, like
dressing the way we wanted andeating what we wanted for lunch.
I had a client once literallysay, like, she felt guilty
(06:11):
because she was bringing so manydifferent pens with her to
journal. Like, I should onlytake one. I mean, it's just
crazy the things that are in uslike that, let alone the, like,
big desires, like, you know, Iwanna go to Paris and I wish I
could, like, do this and that.And it's like, oh my God, we
(06:32):
have so much fear. And I think alot of it is because we were
taught to.
Candice (06:38):
Yeah. Yeah. You hit on 2 different things that I'd like
you to talk a little bit moreabout. One is the intersection
of, like, complex PTSD andpleasure because Yeah. I know
for a lot of people who havecomplex PTSD, it could have came
from childhood abuse or sexualabuse or domestic violence.
So there's automatically, like,this very twisted relationship
(07:02):
with it. And then, also, thesocietal thing of, like, women
not being able to trust our ownknowing and our own internal
desires. Like, you said, oh,that makes you a slut. That
makes you a whore. Or, like,you're just a gold digger, or
you're just you know what Imean?
Like,
Kimberly (07:21):
greedy or, like, what they any bad things.
Candice (07:24):
Yeah. Basically, I remember when I was, like, a
kid, one of the my friend's momswould be like, champagne tastes
beer budget, Candice. Like, justshaming me for wanting things.
Right?
Kimberly (07:36):
And so 13. Like, yeah. None of this makes any sense.
Yeah.
Candice (07:42):
Yeah. So if you could talk more about, like, both of
those, like, how you see theinterplay and how people can
get, like, hung up on thosethings.
Kimberly (07:50):
Yeah. A 100%. I mean, I relate, first of all. And I do
think it's interesting that, youknow, all of the things to me,
at least it seems that are likeso damning to call women, have
this connotation of like excessor like kind of unruly, like it
(08:16):
felt like, yeah, being lazy,being slutty, being greedy,
having just too much, wantingtoo much, kind of like of
anything was really, reallylooked down upon. And when I
think about, like, well, whodoes that serve?
It feels like there's thissmoking gun, like, pointed at
(08:36):
the patriarchy and, like,pointed at society that there
would be, like, yeah, a lot ofbenefit to everyone else to keep
women, like really questioningwhat they want and not trusting
themselves. We're like so mucheasier to control. We're so much
easier to sell to and toconvince we're not good enough.
(08:58):
And, you know, I ended upcreating this body of work on
intimacy and healing intimacywounds, which is like one of the
reasons I was so such a yes tothe podcast. And they really
correspond, you know, thisfeeling so many of my clients
have of like I'm too much or I'mnot enough or I'm unworthy.
(09:20):
I'm just gonna be left, youknow, all of this fear and all
of this hurt that really feelslike it tracks back to, like, I
was taught not to trust myself.Yeah. And I don't even
necessarily mean by, like, onespecific person who, like,
spelled it all out. You know,one of the things that I like to
(09:42):
say is even if we didn't buyinto it, so much of this had
already bought its way into us.Yeah.
So there's just this, I think,detox thing that we have to do,
that we get to do, that I knowyou've already, you know, been
engaged in for so long of justlike, wait a minute. Like, do I
(10:03):
really where did this come from?And like, is this really mine?
And then I feel like the nextstep is really starting to
imagine like, okay, well, whatwould, what would it look like
for me to start following mydesires more as breadcrumbs
toward the life that I'm meantfor? What if my pleasure is
(10:26):
actually an indicator of thingsbeing on track, you know, that
like, okay, this feels good.
I'm gonna follow it instead ofthis feels good. I better like
get it away from me because itmight like send me straight to
hell. And what I found is thatthis is what has led women in my
world to like the relationshipsthat feel really healthy, the
(10:48):
work that really like brings outtheir true calling, the life
that feels good to them. I justhave not seen anything bad
happen when women startlistening to what they really
want.
Candice (11:02):
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's so true because it's like
you said, the pushing away of,like, oh, no. I shouldn't be
going into this direction. And Ido think it's, like you said, a
mechanism for control, and thatreminded me of that, I can't
remember.
It was a documentary I saw awhile ago about how, like,
basically, there's an entire$1,000,000,000 industry focused
(11:24):
on making us feel like shit sothat they can sell us diet pills
and weight watchers and beautycreams and all this stuff.
Right? And so, yes, there is acomponent of, like, people are
making money off of us feelingbad. Right. But there is also a
component of, like, thestructural hierarchy of, like,
the family systems andgovernment and things like where
(11:46):
they depend on us staying inthis role so that they can
continue to do what they wannado.
Right? A 100%. But, yeah, Ithink too, like, especially when
when you're dealing with, like,trauma and this undercurrent of
constantly being gaslit from notjust your partner or your
(12:07):
parents or your teachers orsociety of, like, oh, you
shouldn't do that, and you startto question yourself, and then
it, like, makes you feel likeyou're crazy. And so then you,
like, you are, like, oh, I mustbe wrong. It must be me that's
wrong here instead of, like,focusing on how if we do start
to listen to ourself, people aregonna get pissed off.
(12:27):
Gotcha. Now we're not complying,and it is kind of like a
rebellion of sorts, right, wherewe're kind of taking our power
back, and it feels very, like,little scary, and it also feels
very much like we're kind ofbucking the system.
Kimberly (12:41):
Yeah. You know, it's so good that you're bringing
this up. And I also feel likeit's so important to say, like
one thing I've noticed, and Ireally went through this myself,
was like, when you follow allthe rules and you think like,
okay, I'm like doing what theysaid to do, and then it still
(13:04):
doesn't work. Like, there'salmost no greater freedom. Like
I felt so betrayed by kind oflike my discovery that like
trying so hard to be the goodgirl and doing everything right
and not doing the things that Iwasn't supposed to do and being
like, okay, like, desire's bad.
(13:26):
Okay, great. I'm not gonna thinkabout it. Oh, pleasure's bad.
Not even gonna I couldn't evenorder the peach pleasure
smoothie at Jamba Juice. I waslike, oh, shut down, like just
terrified of it all.
And I ended up in this marriagewith this guy. We waited, we
like did everything we weresupposed to do. Didn't do every
(13:47):
everything we weren't supposedto do, I guess is more like it.
And like, in a story that I knowis so familiar to so many, it
just it was the wrong it wasjust such a wrong match, like,
in so many levels. And I'm notreally, like, allowed to say too
much about about it, but it justit was like, I had I was like
(14:12):
writing my journal on myhoneymoon being like, oh my god.
Like, something's wrong. And,like, it started to set me free.
I didn't see it at the time. Iwas just so pissed and upset.
Like, we were talking
Candice (14:27):
about like, where's my justice? Right. I made
Kimberly (14:31):
everything right. And, and instead looking back, I'm
like, oh, that was the beginningof you being so free because it
was like, I did everything I wassupposed to and it didn't even
work. Yeah. I can't believe it.And now that I've worked with so
many clients, some with aChristian background, some in
(14:52):
other religions, some not it'slike, there is sort of this
moment of like, I followed allthe rules and you know, my
husband left me anyway, or thejob that I was supposed to get,
like, fell apart and I had,like, you know, given up
everything for it, whatever itis.
And it's like, well, now I mightas well see, like, what it does
(15:15):
it look like if I follow my ownrules instead. And it was so
freeing, you know, and I've,I've talked with a lot of people
about how for me personally,like, I didn't really feel like
I needed to leave my own faith.I did feel like I needed to
leave the church that I was.Like, the rules and the
(15:40):
structure that felt very likethe human side. Mhmm.
But, I actually felt and stillfeel like getting closer to my
own desires and, like, mylistening to that, like, inner
voice more and more, it feltlike it was bringing me closer
to God and, like, closer to anexperience of the divine. But
(16:00):
yeah, I got kicked out of acouple of Bible studies. It was
some drama for a little whilethere when I when I first
started that process. And I knowthat that that can be so scary
for anybody listening. Who'skind of like, what?
I don't know if I could likehandle that. Like, I mean, you
(16:22):
know, I, I was really likeafraid. And now some of those
girls from Bible studiessecretly buy my courses because
it's like, you know, of course,like nobody taught them about
pleasure either. So it's like,well, let me tiptoe back in
here.
Candice (16:40):
Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny because I definitely had
that I feel like I was, like,right around 34, 35 when I was
like, oh, this isn't there's nopayout. It's not coming. There's
no payout.
Yeah. Coming.
Kimberly (16:55):
Such a good way to
Candice (16:56):
do that. I I was like, I did this and I did this and I
did this and I followed allthese rules. And I was the good
girl, the good girl, and I wasalways giving, giving, giving,
helping, helping, helping. Noboundaries. Like
Kimberly (17:09):
Right.
Candice (17:09):
Just like the con like, very much, like, conforming to
what was expected of me. Yeah.And I was like, this sucks.
Like, if this is what life is,doing the right thing, I don't
wanna do the right thing. And II probably swung a little bit
too far in the wrong directionfor a while, and but I kinda
(17:29):
came back to equilibrium.
But even, like, getting a tarotcard reading felt like I was
being so satanic. Like, therewas these little things I had to
do to kinda break it. I had to,like, step out and challenge all
the things I had been told to belike, oh, well, that wasn't bad,
like, they told me, but I also,like, didn't love it. And so to
Kimberly (17:50):
me, like Yeah. Like experimenting and being like,
okay. Not quite. Not quite. Ioften joke, and it sounds like
you might resonate.
Like, too witchy for church,but, like, too churchy for
witch. Like, I so get it. Like,we're
Candice (18:06):
in that
Kimberly (18:06):
in retreat.
Candice (18:07):
It's funny too because, like, you're you're told so many
things. And even if it's notabout religion, if it's about,
you know, your gender roles oryour your, you know, your role
as a community member orwhatever it is, And then when
you start to be like, I don'tthink that is true. Like,
there's there's nothing there'sno reward on the end of this
conformity. It's just sufferingon my part. Right?
(18:29):
And so, I thought like like yousaid, once I started to question
things and really be like, whatdo I want?
Kimberly (18:38):
When
Candice (18:39):
I said that I truly want and get quiet and listen to
myself and start to take stepstowards that, things just became
so much more worth living. Like,literally, you know, there's I
think especially if you're inthat role of, like, I need to do
what's right. I need to makeYeah. It is a lot of people
pleasing and a lot of, you know,behaviors like that. And you're
(19:02):
you're not satisfied and you'renot filled because you're not
listening to what you need orwhat you not want.
And then once you can start,like, stepping into that slowly,
you can realize like, oh, well,no wonder I was miserable
because, like, I was denyingeverything I needed to myself.
Kimberly (19:20):
Yes. Oh my god. Completely. Completely. Yeah.
Yeah. There's a feeling of,like, freedom. It's also free
fall, but you're like, okay. Ican also, like, create this.
And, you know, one of the thingsthat it felt really beautiful to
me was starting to develop arelationship with my, like,
(19:42):
inner self and what now I wouldsay, like, with my desires as
one where I could trust her.
You know, I think one of theharms that I didn't even know I
was experiencing with that wayof thinking that, like, your
desire is bad. And if you wantit, it's bad. If it feels good,
it's bad. Is it led me to reallythink, like, I can't trust
(20:04):
myself. And it sounds like, youknow, you resonate.
I know a lot of my clients dotoo. It's like that feeling that
at our core, you're not thevoice you can listen to. And
that is just such a that's sucha dangerous thing, you know, and
it did start to feel like, oh,I'm like reconnecting, maybe
(20:26):
connecting for the first timeever with like an inner me who I
can actually trust maybe evenbefore anyone else. You know, I
feel like so much of that goodgirl conditioning is like,
listen to outside authority,teachers and pastors and
parents, and it's so differentto be like, you are the
(20:48):
authority and other people canhelp. And that's so great to get
feedback and advice, but, youknow, that is like a different,
totally different ballgame.
Candice (21:00):
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's that, like you said, we
are so conditioned fromchildhood to, like, you have to
listen to the teacher. You haveto listen to your parents. You
have to listen to the, you know,whatever.
The rules. Follow the rules. Andso, yes, there's a balance to
keep kids safe, but alsoteaching them, like, what do you
(21:20):
internally want? And it's sofunny because my 9 year old I'll
be like, well, what do you wannado today? And you're like,
Kimberly (21:27):
oh, I don't know. Like, because there's Yeah.
Candice (21:29):
So many choices. Right? And so it can feel overwhelming
when you're first starting to dothis work to be like, what do I
really want?
Kimberly (21:37):
Yeah.
Candice (21:38):
And then, you know, I think you touched on, like, a
little bit of, like, sometimesit's, do I want a new career? Do
I want different relationships?Do I wanna set boundaries? And
some like, for me, what I'vekinda run up against too was,
like, I want, a level of lifethat other people are gonna be
(21:59):
upset about. Right?
Like Yeah. Like you'vementioned, the Paris thing.
There's a lot of, like, guiltthat comes with this and, like,
scariness because if I'm reallyhonest with people, they're
going to judge me. They're goingto say things to me because when
I've tried in little ways,
Kimberly (22:16):
like I
Candice (22:16):
bought that $400 purse or whatever, and then the person
was like, oh my God, I can'tbelieve you bought that purse.
Right. And so I think that's,there's another component to, of
like stepping through fear andthen also like a guilt aspect
that comes in.
Kimberly (22:32):
Yeah. Oh my God. I could not relate more to what
you're saying. And it's true.Like I would even go so far as
to say, like, it felt kind oflike I would die if people knew,
like, a, what I really wantedand then b, if they, like, saw
me going for it.
(22:54):
I I don't even know where insome ways, like, where that came
from. Like, obviously, we'retalking about how, like, book
comes from everywhere. Like,it's just like it's the air you
breathe in, but I even wonder iffor some of us it's like
ancestral and like way back,like women who stood out, women
(23:14):
who spoke up, like, what did wedo? You know, it feels kind of
like that fear. It's like, well,I'm gonna be not only
disapproved of, but that thatdisapproval might mean I'm
Candice (23:28):
dead. Banishment or, you
Kimberly (23:31):
know, being cast out. Right. Like, it's not just gonna
cost me, like, an eye roll fromsomebody. It could cost me,
like, my whole community.
Candice (23:39):
Yeah. You
Kimberly (23:40):
know, I think that that's so deep and it can feel
so dangerous in a way that, youknow, not everybody understands.
It's like, why can't you justbuy a purse, go to Paris, like,
whatever. It's like, woah, youdon't get it.
Candice (23:55):
You don't get it. Yeah.
Kimberly (23:56):
I'm gonna, like, die. Yeah.
Candice (23:59):
Yeah. It does feel very especially if you've had, like,
a lot of people in your past,when you're younger shaming you
or rejecting you or alienatingyou and you becoming, like like
people were like, oh, you're soprissy. And now it took me,
like, I really shadow bannedthat part of myself for a while.
(24:22):
Like, I remember a decade whereI wouldn't even wear the color
pink
Kimberly (24:25):
Right.
Candice (24:26):
Because it was too prissy, and it had to be, like,
hard or whatever. Like, it wasvery weird until, like Please.
Just recently in the last 5years, I was like, oh, so what
if I have a, like, a Hello Kittycup? Like, who gives a fuck?
Like, this is my life.
Right? Okay.
Kimberly (24:43):
I'm so glad you said that. Absolutely. I completely
hear you. And I just had a babydaughter a few months ago, and
I've been letting myself kindof, like, under the guise of
shopping for her. But, like,first she's like 4 months old.
She doesn't know like what'seven in her room, but I'm like,
it's such inner child feeling tobe like this pink thing and this
(25:06):
like swan and ballerinastocking, like, and it's so for
me, because it's so similar towhat you're saying that like
that part of us that was maybe,Yeah. Like just considered way
over the top, you know, likewhat if she got to come out? And
I often have thought, you know,I work with a lot of
(25:30):
entrepreneurs who then are likecelebrating different milestones
and it's like really popular inour industry to like buy a fancy
purse, which I love a fancypurse. I so support this for
people. But every once in awhile, there's something else
that is like the American girldoll that they like Oh
Candice (25:48):
my gosh.
Kimberly (25:49):
Have as a child or the like Yeah. Pink frilly dress
that, like, their partner wouldnever have loved or, you know,
something like that that reallyis even more aligned with, like,
what part of me was not allowedto come out.
Candice (26:04):
Mhmm. Yeah. I think that's so true. And, also, like,
you were talking about the innerchild work is such a integral
part of our healing. Nice.
Because, like, just for example,recently, I was at this
Vipassana meditation retreat,and I was not going well. And I,
like, sat with myself andbecause I've done, internal
(26:27):
family systems work before.
Kimberly (26:29):
Yeah.
Candice (26:30):
And so then it's like, okay. There's all these little
kids in me, like, different agesand stages. And I was like,
what's going on in here, guys?And, like, there's the part of
me that's, like, really angry.Like, we don't wanna be here,
and we want out of this.
And, like and so, I think, like,working with your inner child
(26:50):
can be so therapeutic, and itcan also, like, bring up a lot
of, like, judgment from people.So
Kimberly (26:57):
Yes.
Candice (26:57):
You know, if it's easier to take baby steps and do
it in a way where you're notgonna be, like, putting it on
social media or whatever, whichyou can still have that fun.
Like, I recently got really intobath bombs.
Kimberly (27:10):
Wow.
Candice (27:11):
And I was like, this is so silly, and it seems so
frivolous, but it brings me somuch joy. And I just don't,
like, loving just that number 1,like, acknowledging my inner
child is really having fun withthis. Yeah. But, also, it's
combining, like, a nurturingaspect and, like, a a Yes.
Aspect of, like, taking the timefor myself to not rush through a
(27:32):
shower.
I'm, like, sitting in thebathtub, which I know you love
bathtubs
Kimberly (27:35):
because you're, like, always posting bathtub pictures.
Speaking my language, but no,you're so it's so making sense.
Yeah. And to be like, there isan element of like, playfulness
and delight in here, but also itis like a deep confrontation
with, like, that part of youthat maybe was like, okay,
(27:58):
hurry, you know, like rush beonto the next thing. It's like
so different to just get to soakin your own luxury and, like,
inner child healing moment.
Yeah.
Candice (28:11):
I think too that's, like, the intersection of, like,
pleasure and joy, which I thinka lot of people confuse joy for
pleasure as well because theyare kind of, like, you know,
it's okay to be happy, but don'tbe too happy. Right? Like, it's
okay to have fun, but don't havetoo much fun. Right? Like,
there's Yeah.
That's another part of it wherejoy and pleasure, like,
(28:33):
interchange a lot for us. And Ithink it's another area where
people get, like, shamed or theyfeel guilty about it or Yeah.
You know, they they wanna betaken seriously.
Kimberly (28:43):
Right.
Candice (28:43):
So I don't know if you have, like, tips for people on
how to integrate that more.
Kimberly (28:49):
I love that question. You know, I think that one thing
that you already spoke to sowisely, but just to circle back
to around, like letting pleasurebe kind of like liberated from
being just about sex andsensuality, like that can be so
helpful and like givingourselves kind of permission to
(29:11):
find it everywhere. And I, Ihave really found the senses to
be kind of like a good guidewhere it's like, okay, like what
can I, what can I like see andtouch and smell and feel that
would like feel pleasurable orlike feel good, especially if
I'm feeling kind of likeoverwhelmed or I'm having a
(29:32):
moment of just likeneurodivergent, like executive
dysfunction, you know, havingkind of like a, okay, like, can
I like come back to my sensesand like burn a candle and drink
a coffee and wrap myself insomething soft? And there is
this like pleasure asexperienced, you know, that like
(29:56):
has been really grounding forme. And I find joy to be kind of
like the outcome, you know,building that more and more into
my life and getting more fluidin the language of my own desire
and pleasure.
It's like, oh, joy becomes thisbaseline. It's actually so
(30:17):
moving to think about this, andI haven't really before. But you
know, 10 years ago, before I wasdoing this work, my baseline was
like terror at like much morejust like, oh my God, you know,
somebody is going to like, firstof all, find out like how bad I
am inside, you know, that reallyfelt like such a strong current.
(30:41):
And I think that that is soinstilled and then, like,
capitalized on within, like,really high control religion.
Just that sense of, like, youknow, deep down, you're bad.
Yes. Life is about managing thatbadness from like not letting
more of it come out like, oh myGod. I mean, like teach it to
(31:03):
children. It's like so intense.And so, you know, I think I
really felt nervous all the timeand like scared and that feeling
of like, Oh, if anybody knewlike what was really going on in
here, I would like be so unlovedand, like, unworthy.
(31:26):
And it's so interesting and,like, amazing, honestly, to
think, like, my baseline now isgratitude and joy and, like,
life feels so good. Yeah. When Ithink about you know, I think
like all entrepreneurs, youknow, I, like, run this
$1,000,000 business. SometimesI'm like, what do I do? Do I do
anything?
What do I do? Yeah. I'm like,even just this conversation and,
(31:50):
like, reflecting on that changeand, like, it's as simple as,
like, I used to feel terrifiedall the time and now I feel joy
and, like, pleasure was thepath. Mhmm. That feels, like,
clear enough, honestly.
Yeah. The next time I'm freakingout, feeling like I don't do
anything real. I think I'm gonnarelisten to this episode. Yeah.
Candice (32:12):
I it's so funny. You touched on 2 really good things.
The the first one is, like, theI'm, at my true core, gonna be
evil, which is so funny that yousay that because I was like,
maybe this is just me. But the,when I started doing the to be
mad magnetic shadow work, thatwas my thing. And I read, the
(32:35):
dark side of the light chasersby Debbie Ford, but I was truly
and I'm I'm 99% sure that wasbecause of the religious stuff,
was that I believed at my very,very core, I was pure evil.
And then if anybody found outabout it, like, it's game over.
Right? And so as I started to dothe shadow work Wow. And work
with myself, I'm like, wait aminute. Yeah.
(32:57):
Pure evil? Like, yes, I I getangry sometimes and I, you know,
wanna beat somebody up orwhatever. Right? Like, whatever
comes up. But at my true core,there it was like this monster
that when I really brought itinto the light and started to
shed love and compassion on it,I was like, there's nothing
really evil here.
(33:17):
Like, why am I it was just thisfear that I was evil. And when I
really looked it in the face, Iwas like, oh, I'm not evil. And
so it was so liberating. Andthen like you said, like, the
other part of it is when you'reliving from that state of, like,
fear and anxiousness and worryand dread and misery and
(33:40):
suffering, and you start to moveinto the joy and gratitude and
peace and pleasure state, number1, it disrupts a lot of people
around you. Like, they're gonnabe, like, irritated by it.
Yeah. But it also is, I think,so taboo to live from that
place. Right? Like, especiallywhen you get into, like and I
(34:02):
try to, like, balance this, butwhen you get into that, like,
social justice warrior, like,woke culture where it's like,
how can I enjoy my pleasure andmy joy when Gaza is happening?
Right?
Like, there's all these thingsthat were it's so difficult to
kinda, like, integrate. Yeah.But, also, I can't like, there's
(34:23):
a couple different people thathave said it a couple different
ways, but, like, you sufferingisn't gonna stop them from
suffering. Like, you can't getpoor enough to help the poor, I
think, was a windy eye or thing.
Kimberly (34:33):
Yeah.
Candice (34:33):
So it's like, you know, how do we metabolize that? Like,
I want to feel good all thetime, and I wanna live a life
where I feel happy to wake up,and I feel like I can enjoy my
day Yeah. And not be burdenedwith guilt and shame and all
these other emotions. You know?
Kimberly (34:52):
No. I think it's really important to that we're
talking about that, and it istempting to skip it sometimes
and to just, like, leave outthat part of the equation
because it it can becomplicated. And I think it's
completely fair when people arelike, you know, how, how does
this all work together? Becauseit's not just about each
(35:15):
individual person, you know,feeling better. But at the end
of the day, I think you'reabsolutely right to say our own
misery doesn't tend to be thathelpful.
And when I look at my past andthink about those times where,
you know, I was more in my ownfear, my own anxiety, I was so
(35:36):
self absorbed by that, thatlike, there wasn't much to give
from. Yeah. And when I think nowabout, especially kind of like
the success piece around mybusiness, what I've been able to
do and this kind of feeling ofbeing an overflow and being able
to give from that. And I thinkthere's probably like an even
(36:00):
more, abstract version that'smore like with my attention and
with my focus, but I mean, evenjust like money, you know, it's
like, oh, the happier I've been,the better my life is, the more
I have literally, like, the moreI've been able to give. And it
has led me to believe, like,okay.
(36:23):
Do I think it's an easy answer?Like, absolutely not. But am I
noticing that, like, the moreand more of my life is filled
with pleasure, I'm able to giveand receive a lot more at like a
much higher level? Like, yes.And that does feel worth noting.
You know, it's, I don't thinkit's a perfect solution.
(36:45):
Obviously I have so muchprivilege. I have so much
access. I know that that's nottrue for everyone. And it does
tend to land me in the place offeeling like, yeah.
And the best thing I could dowith that is turn it into
something that feels good sothat I can like create and give
(37:06):
from that place.
Candice (37:07):
Yeah. Yeah. I agree because I feel like the more I
try to leave the the constant,like, suffering, misery, I feel
like shit all the time Yeah. Andmove into that state of, like,
joy and gratitude in meeting myneeds first, which Yeah. Seems
counterintuitive that if wefocus on ourselves, we would
(37:27):
have more to give, but thatreally is what I found the way
it works.
Like, the more I take care ofmyself or nurture myself and
love myself, the more overflow Ihave to give back to my
community. Or, like, if if we'relooking at money too, like, if
you're in a shitty vibe all daylong and you're, like, broke and
(37:47):
you don't have enough money forgas, you don't have money for
groceries, you can't help thehomeless person.
Kimberly (37:52):
I know.
Candice (37:53):
You can't go buy that McDonald's meal or something.
Right? Because Right. You don'thave enough money for your own
gas tank. So if you can elevateinto another, like, realm for
your finances, your power to beable to give back is so much
magnified.
You know? I think
Kimberly (38:08):
Yes.
Candice (38:09):
That's something I've been working on a lot in the
last couple years is, like,figuring out how can I move the
needle? You know what I mean? Sothat I'm operating from a place
of, like, overflow and abundanceand increase in income. And I
like that you said, like, thatpleasure was your path Yeah.
(38:31):
Away from, like, the academiaand, like, all these things you
were supposed to do.
You started, like, bucking thenorm and being, like, let's
follow the the pleasure trail.Yeah. And then suddenly, like,
money is flowing. Like, I canyou talk more about, like, how
those are connected?
Kimberly (38:47):
Yeah. Like, wait a minute. Is there, like, a piece
missing here? I mean, I think acouple of things. And one is
that, like, I did end up takingwhat I had been through and
turning it into like courses anda coaching program that I
thought could help other peoplein charging for that.
(39:08):
And so that's why I called mybusiness uncover. Like it felt
very like, okay, like thisprocess for me has been like
kind of stripping down and likefiguring out like who I really
am. And I do now believe that wepretty much all have that. Like
we all have something we didthat was hard for us. Or maybe
(39:30):
not, maybe it was easy and wecould teach other people and get
paid.
And it just kind of changed mylife to think that, like, not
only could I have been throughthis, but maybe I could help
other people too. I've even nowadded a twist to the last year
where I've been like, I feellike you're getting paid back
for all of this stuff I
Candice (39:51):
went through. That's I wanna latch onto that because
I'm like, oh, I want some, whatis that called? Like, residuals
or something, like backpayments?
Kimberly (40:02):
My god. Residuals. You should talk about this. Yeah. I
felt like I was getting kind of,like, a refund for my, like, for
the trouble that I've beenthrough.
And so if any if that's, like, ahelpful paradigm for anyone feel
free and obviously like the flipside of it, that's like maybe
even a little sweeter to talkabout is like, yeah, like I went
(40:24):
through this. Can I make someoneelse's version easier? Someone
else's journey a little bitbetter. Like my, one of my very
first courses was about likereclaiming your body basically
after like sexual trauma orreligious trauma or just like
all those things we've beentalking about about just feeling
like you're bad, pleasure's bad,like really hard to have an
(40:48):
orgasm, like from that space.And so the thought that like it
could shorten someone else'stime span that I could receive
money for this and that we couldbe creating kind of like a new
paradigm even of like, what isbusiness?
What is money? Like, what is allthis for? What if it's actually
(41:08):
about like supporting women asthey, like, tell their story and
change the narrative for otherwomen? Like, it just felt really
radical to me. But on a lessliteral level, because that was,
like, literally, like, I'm usingpleasure and selling it,
basically.
Candice (41:27):
Yeah. Well, I mean Yeah. It's been done for ages
except to to the male to themale gaze. Right? Like, if we
look at the pornography industryRight.
It's all majority focused onmale pleasure, and Right. The
star of the show is the guy, andit's all about what he wants.
And so even just that, that's a$1,000,000,000 that people make
(41:51):
money off of night and day. Andso Yeah. What's what's the
difference between yeah.
Our side. Yeah.
Kimberly (41:57):
100%. Like, why not our version about healing and
empowerment? And for anybodywho's like, okay, I don't wanna
be a coach or a course creator.That's fine. I do still think
trusting, like learning to trustthose pleasure breadcrumbs and
like follow them toward thething like we are supposed to be
(42:21):
doing is, like, still the path,you know, even if it, like,
lands you somewhere else, it'sslightly less terrifying job.
Yeah. But, yeah, there issomething something in me had to
really shift because even yeah.Of course, academia, It was,
like, coming at me from allsides. Church, academia, like,
(42:41):
liberal, which I'm very liberal,social justice y stuff. It was
like, oh, yeah.
Anything good is bad. Yeah. In,like, all of these realms. Mhmm.
Like, and no Paris for any ofthem.
Yeah. You know, just, like, verystrict. Mhmm. And this idea
that, like, okay, I've gottadeprogram from this idea that,
like, the only way to be good isto be, like, miserable and sad
(43:04):
and, like, in a librarybasement, like, having
everything in the light of day.Yeah.
And instead start to be like,what if, if it feels good for
me, it's good for me. And whatif the more I do that, the more
I can like trust myself and whatif I can trust it? It's like
leading me to, you know, thepeople I meant to be with, but
(43:27):
also the work I meant to bedoing.
Candice (43:30):
Yeah. I think that's true. Like, if we go back to
even just, like, the the socialjustice work is if your work
reaches more women and morewomen become empowered and are
able to trust themselves and togrow their own personal pleasure
and joy
Kimberly (43:46):
Right.
Candice (43:47):
It's a societal effect. Right? It's a ripple effect.
Right? Because it's gonna like,what's that?
The rising tide lifts all ofJesus kind of thing. Right? And
so this isn't just about youbeing greedy and wanting to make
1,000,000 of dollars. It's alsobecause you're you're helping
people in the process. Right?
Like, you're empowering otherwomen to to listen to their own
(44:08):
inner voice and take the stepsthat are gonna work for them.
Yeah. But, yeah, I think thatthere's again, like the smoking
gun you talked about, there's areason why they wanna keep us
all miserable. They wanna keepus all, like, depressed. And
Yeah.
It's funny you talked aboutorgasm because I think that's
another aspect too is, like,there's so many of us on, and
(44:30):
I'm currently not on, but, like,antidepressants and antianxiety
meds. Yeah. And one of the sideeffects of those is, like, not
being able to have orgasm or notbeing able to, like, have, like,
sexual you can't like, you'renumb. You're numbing not only
your emotions, but you'renumbing, like, your other stuff
too. And so name.
I feel like, you know, if welook at, like, what's the root
(44:53):
cause of all this suffering andhow can we step out of it each
in our own way and empower eachother to take those steps even
though, you know, it may feelkind of scary or weird or may we
may have guilt over it. ButRight. And I know we only have,
like, 15 minutes left, and Iknow you love Gilmore Girls.
(45:13):
I've been watching Gilmore Girlslately. I'm, like, in season 6
now.
And so, like, to wrap it out, Iwanted to be like, who is your
favorite character on the show?Uh-huh. Who's, like, your least
I know there's a completedeparture from what we were
talking about, but
Kimberly (45:27):
I wanted to ask. No. My Gilmore Girls advent calendar
is like right here. I'm like soready for this. I love season 6.
So I this is a good questionthough, because I really have
thought about, like, you know,growing up watching it.
Candice (45:47):
So I just wanna acknowledge that the recording
cut off abruptly. I thought wehad got it all, but, apparently,
we lost, like, the last fewminutes of the recording with
doctor Kimberly Rose Pendleton.And so, basically, to reframe,
she was sharing with me that shereally loved all, you know, Rory
(46:08):
and Lorelei and Emily Gilmore asthe seasons progressed and as
she saw that their, you know,trajectory of their personal
development in the show. And sowe talked a little bit about,
like, the character she didn'tlike was Kirk because she saw
him as, like, flighty, but thensomeone compared her to Kirk,
and it was, like, reallyoffensive to her. But, anyway,
I'm rerecording this part sothat the podcast doesn't seem
(46:30):
kind of random me rambling.
It was me talking and no oneelse on the last, like, 10
minutes of the show. So itdidn't make any sense for me to
leave it like that, and we wereunable to regain the recording
that we had. It's just, like,lost in space somewhere. So I
did want to wrap up with saying,if you wanna dive into doctor
(46:52):
Kimberly's work, you can findher on Instagram at doctor
Kimberly Rose Pendleton. You'll,see her picture.
I think she's wearing, like, apink dress. I also have linked
all of her stuff down below inthe show notes if you're wanting
to go to her website. She hasfree materials on there about
recovering from purity cultureand regaining control of your
(47:15):
pleasure. She also has,something happening right now
online where you can sign up andget some free content on the
good witch, I think, is the onethat's out currently. But you
can go to her website that'salso linked below and, follow
her work, learn more about howyou can integrate pleasure in
(47:36):
your own life and make it yourown in your own daily practice.
So I hope you all enjoyed thisepisode. Have a great day.
Thanks so much for watching andlistening.
Hello, and welcome to today's episode of Open Wounds
podcast. I want to welcome ourguest for today, Kimberly Rose
Pendleton. I should say doctor.It's very important to
acknowledge all your hard work.I know.
It's You know? So frustratingfor I at least my opinion. When
somebody's like, I went tocollege for 8 years. I'm earning
(00:23):
that title, doctor. So doctorKimberly Rose Pendleton, she is
a coach.
She is an author. I know she,has a large, you know, Instagram
following, and she is an expertin a couple different areas. But
I wanna let you tell everyonewhat you feel like, you know,
(00:44):
like a little intro aboutyourself.
Kimberly (00:46):
Oh, thank you so much. Yeah. So happy to be here. I am,
it's true, a doctor. I got mydoctorate in women's studies and
didn't plan to turn that into acoaching business for women.
But looking back, it kind of allfeels like it makes sense. Like
(01:06):
it was bigger than me. But I,yeah, I run an intimacy coaching
business called Uncover. That isjust such a joy of my life. And
the first book that I everwrote, Get Uncovered, is kind of
the like, do it yourself versionof all of that intimacy
coaching.
(01:26):
And I do feel like a big part ofmy work ended up being what I
had studied in school, but thenlike combined with the tools of
coaching, which just take it allto the next level. So instead of
it just being like that academicsetting where you're like
reading and like maybe thinkinga little bit about it, it's
(01:47):
like, I feel like coachingbrought it all down into the
body. It was like, okay, like wecan actually apply some of this.
So I'm just so so happy at theway that it's all ended up. Now
I'm here with you, and I feellike, I wouldn't get to do this
if I were a professor like I hadplanned.
Candice (02:08):
Yeah. The, the other thing too I noticed and how I
like, my friend, Loyola,connected me with you, is
because I have, like, a lot of,history with Christianity and
evangelicalism anddeconstruction. And so I was
like, yeah. This is what, youknow, I like to talk about. And
(02:28):
she's like, oh, you should talkto Kimberly because, like,
that's, like, in her wheelhouse.
And so I know that, like, a lotof your work focuses on
pleasure, which just as ageneral rule, that's kind of a
taboo topic even in nonChristian circles. Totally. But
even more so in Christiancircles because I mean, I don't
(02:48):
like I think most peopleassociate pleasure with sex. But
even if you look at, like,pleasure from, like, just an
enjoying life standpoint
Kimberly (02:56):
Yeah.
Candice (02:57):
There's a lot of stuff in religion that is very, like,
that's a sin. Right? Even tojust enjoy lying in bed or
something. Right? So can youtalk a little bit about, like,
how you landed on pleasure andwhy that was something you felt
was so important to focus on?
Kimberly (03:12):
Yeah. Thank you. I mean, really, I think you nailed
a huge piece of the puzzle, andI do have a Christian
background, like you said, andit kind of makes the pieces more
obvious, but it's true that evenwith my clients who are like,
no, I like have never set footin a church. And yet I feel so
(03:33):
guilty taking time off orordering dessert or enjoying
something sex or anything, youknow, I think you really hit the
nail on the head, but there islike this feeling that it's bad.
And this feeling that, you know,for me, the language was often
like it's sinful.
(03:54):
You know, it felt like anythingyou want is probably bad for
you.
Candice (03:59):
Yeah. Yeah.
Kimberly (04:00):
Which is just such a complicated thing to teach,
especially women. So what Ifound is that the pleasure work
really unexpectedly for me cameout of trauma healing and
starting to put a piece togetherthat I still think feels a
(04:21):
little edgy to talk about aroundhow if you've taught like a
whole generation of women thatwhat feels good to them is bad.
They are like so susceptible totrauma. And like, well, how
would we even know? Like, whatcould consent even mean?
(04:41):
What could desire even mean?Cause like anything in us would
have been like, oh, if it feelsgood, it's bad. If I want it,
it's bad. If I don't want it,maybe that's good. Like just so
complicated.
And so my research was abouttrauma and sex trafficking in
particular and kind of like theways that trauma impacts women
(05:02):
in particular. And I started tosee like pleasure as this like
really understudied, but likekind of minority voice path of
like healing and helping,especially like women who were
overcoming trauma, kind of likelearn to trust their bodies
again. And I started to seelike, oh my God, like there's so
(05:26):
much even like societal traumaand so much going on for so many
of us where we were just taughtlike so much about sex and
enjoyment and all these thingsthat are leaving us feeling,
like completely confused aboutlike who we are and what we
want. And it started to feellike pleasure was this like
(05:50):
missing piece, like thismedicine that could really help.
And it's crazy because, youknow, for most of my clients and
for me, the littlest things werelike feeling scary already, like
dressing the way we wanted andeating what we wanted for lunch.
I had a client once literallysay, like, she felt guilty
(06:11):
because she was bringing so manydifferent pens with her to
journal. Like, I should onlytake one. I mean, it's just
crazy the things that are in uslike that, let alone the, like,
big desires, like, you know, Iwanna go to Paris and I wish I
could, like, do this and that.And it's like, oh my God, we
(06:32):
have so much fear. And I think alot of it is because we were
taught to.
Candice (06:38):
Yeah. Yeah. You hit on 2 different things that I'd like
you to talk a little bit moreabout. One is the intersection
of, like, complex PTSD andpleasure because Yeah. I know
for a lot of people who havecomplex PTSD, it could have came
from childhood abuse or sexualabuse or domestic violence.
So there's automatically, like,this very twisted relationship
(07:02):
with it. And then, also, thesocietal thing of, like, women
not being able to trust our ownknowing and our own internal
desires. Like, you said, oh,that makes you a slut. That
makes you a whore. Or, like,you're just a gold digger, or
you're just you know what Imean?
Like,
Kimberly (07:21):
greedy or, like, what they any bad things.
Candice (07:24):
Yeah. Basically, I remember when I was, like, a
kid, one of the my friend's momswould be like, champagne tastes
beer budget, Candice. Like, justshaming me for wanting things.
Right?
Kimberly (07:36):
And so 13. Like, yeah. None of this makes any sense.
Yeah.
Candice (07:42):
Yeah. So if you could talk more about, like, both of
those, like, how you see theinterplay and how people can
get, like, hung up on thosethings.
Kimberly (07:50):
Yeah. A 100%. I mean, I relate, first of all. And I do
think it's interesting that, youknow, all of the things to me,
at least it seems that are likeso damning to call women, have
this connotation of like excessor like kind of unruly, like it
(08:16):
felt like, yeah, being lazy,being slutty, being greedy,
having just too much, wantingtoo much, kind of like of
anything was really, reallylooked down upon. And when I
think about, like, well, whodoes that serve?
It feels like there's thissmoking gun, like, pointed at
(08:36):
the patriarchy and, like,pointed at society that there
would be, like, yeah, a lot ofbenefit to everyone else to keep
women, like really questioningwhat they want and not trusting
themselves. We're like so mucheasier to control. We're so much
easier to sell to and toconvince we're not good enough.
(08:58):
And, you know, I ended upcreating this body of work on
intimacy and healing intimacywounds, which is like one of the
reasons I was so such a yes tothe podcast. And they really
correspond, you know, thisfeeling so many of my clients
have of like I'm too much or I'mnot enough or I'm unworthy.
(09:20):
I'm just gonna be left, youknow, all of this fear and all
of this hurt that really feelslike it tracks back to, like, I
was taught not to trust myself.Yeah. And I don't even
necessarily mean by, like, onespecific person who, like,
spelled it all out. You know,one of the things that I like to
(09:42):
say is even if we didn't buyinto it, so much of this had
already bought its way into us.Yeah.
So there's just this, I think,detox thing that we have to do,
that we get to do, that I knowyou've already, you know, been
engaged in for so long of justlike, wait a minute. Like, do I
(10:03):
really where did this come from?And like, is this really mine?
And then I feel like the nextstep is really starting to
imagine like, okay, well, whatwould, what would it look like
for me to start following mydesires more as breadcrumbs
toward the life that I'm meantfor? What if my pleasure is
(10:26):
actually an indicator of thingsbeing on track, you know, that
like, okay, this feels good.
I'm gonna follow it instead ofthis feels good. I better like
get it away from me because itmight like send me straight to
hell. And what I found is thatthis is what has led women in my
world to like the relationshipsthat feel really healthy, the
(10:48):
work that really like brings outtheir true calling, the life
that feels good to them. I justhave not seen anything bad
happen when women startlistening to what they really
want.
Candice (11:02):
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's so true because it's like
you said, the pushing away of,like, oh, no. I shouldn't be
going into this direction. And Ido think it's, like you said, a
mechanism for control, and thatreminded me of that, I can't
remember.
It was a documentary I saw awhile ago about how, like,
basically, there's an entire$1,000,000,000 industry focused
(11:24):
on making us feel like shit sothat they can sell us diet pills
and weight watchers and beautycreams and all this stuff.
Right? And so, yes, there is acomponent of, like, people are
making money off of us feelingbad. Right. But there is also a
component of, like, thestructural hierarchy of, like,
the family systems andgovernment and things like where
(11:46):
they depend on us staying inthis role so that they can
continue to do what they wannado.
Right? A 100%. But, yeah, Ithink too, like, especially when
when you're dealing with, like,trauma and this undercurrent of
constantly being gaslit from notjust your partner or your
(12:07):
parents or your teachers orsociety of, like, oh, you
shouldn't do that, and you startto question yourself, and then
it, like, makes you feel likeyou're crazy. And so then you,
like, you are, like, oh, I mustbe wrong. It must be me that's
wrong here instead of, like,focusing on how if we do start
to listen to ourself, people aregonna get pissed off.
(12:27):
Gotcha. Now we're not complying,and it is kind of like a
rebellion of sorts, right, wherewe're kind of taking our power
back, and it feels very, like,little scary, and it also feels
very much like we're kind ofbucking the system.
Kimberly (12:41):
Yeah. You know, it's so good that you're bringing
this up. And I also feel likeit's so important to say, like
one thing I've noticed, and Ireally went through this myself,
was like, when you follow allthe rules and you think like,
okay, I'm like doing what theysaid to do, and then it still
(13:04):
doesn't work. Like, there'salmost no greater freedom. Like
I felt so betrayed by kind oflike my discovery that like
trying so hard to be the goodgirl and doing everything right
and not doing the things that Iwasn't supposed to do and being
like, okay, like, desire's bad.
(13:26):
Okay, great. I'm not gonna thinkabout it. Oh, pleasure's bad.
Not even gonna I couldn't evenorder the peach pleasure
smoothie at Jamba Juice. I waslike, oh, shut down, like just
terrified of it all.
And I ended up in this marriagewith this guy. We waited, we
like did everything we weresupposed to do. Didn't do every
(13:47):
everything we weren't supposedto do, I guess is more like it.
And like, in a story that I knowis so familiar to so many, it
just it was the wrong it wasjust such a wrong match, like,
in so many levels. And I'm notreally, like, allowed to say too
much about about it, but it justit was like, I had I was like
(14:12):
writing my journal on myhoneymoon being like, oh my god.
Like, something's wrong. And,like, it started to set me free.
I didn't see it at the time. Iwas just so pissed and upset.
Like, we were talking
Candice (14:27):
about like, where's my justice? Right. I made
Kimberly (14:31):
everything right. And, and instead looking back, I'm
like, oh, that was the beginningof you being so free because it
was like, I did everything I wassupposed to and it didn't even
work. Yeah. I can't believe it.And now that I've worked with so
many clients, some with aChristian background, some in
(14:52):
other religions, some not it'slike, there is sort of this
moment of like, I followed allthe rules and you know, my
husband left me anyway, or thejob that I was supposed to get,
like, fell apart and I had,like, you know, given up
everything for it, whatever itis.
And it's like, well, now I mightas well see, like, what it does
(15:15):
it look like if I follow my ownrules instead. And it was so
freeing, you know, and I've,I've talked with a lot of people
about how for me personally,like, I didn't really feel like
I needed to leave my own faith.I did feel like I needed to
leave the church that I was.Like, the rules and the
(15:40):
structure that felt very likethe human side. Mhmm.
But, I actually felt and stillfeel like getting closer to my
own desires and, like, mylistening to that, like, inner
voice more and more, it feltlike it was bringing me closer
to God and, like, closer to anexperience of the divine. But
(16:00):
yeah, I got kicked out of acouple of Bible studies. It was
some drama for a little whilethere when I when I first
started that process. And I knowthat that that can be so scary
for anybody listening. Who'skind of like, what?
I don't know if I could likehandle that. Like, I mean, you
(16:22):
know, I, I was really likeafraid. And now some of those
girls from Bible studiessecretly buy my courses because
it's like, you know, of course,like nobody taught them about
pleasure either. So it's like,well, let me tiptoe back in
here.
Candice (16:40):
Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny because I definitely had
that I feel like I was, like,right around 34, 35 when I was
like, oh, this isn't there's nopayout. It's not coming. There's
no payout.
Yeah. Coming.
Kimberly (16:55):
Such a good way to
Candice (16:56):
do that. I I was like, I did this and I did this and I
did this and I followed allthese rules. And I was the good
girl, the good girl, and I wasalways giving, giving, giving,
helping, helping, helping. Noboundaries. Like
Kimberly (17:09):
Right.
Candice (17:09):
Just like the con like, very much, like, conforming to
what was expected of me. Yeah.And I was like, this sucks.
Like, if this is what life is,doing the right thing, I don't
wanna do the right thing. And II probably swung a little bit
too far in the wrong directionfor a while, and but I kinda
(17:29):
came back to equilibrium.
But even, like, getting a tarotcard reading felt like I was
being so satanic. Like, therewas these little things I had to
do to kinda break it. I had to,like, step out and challenge all
the things I had been told to belike, oh, well, that wasn't bad,
like, they told me, but I also,like, didn't love it. And so to
Kimberly (17:50):
me, like Yeah. Like experimenting and being like,
okay. Not quite. Not quite. Ioften joke, and it sounds like
you might resonate.
Like, too witchy for church,but, like, too churchy for
witch. Like, I so get it. Like,we're
Candice (18:06):
in that
Kimberly (18:06):
in retreat.
Candice (18:07):
It's funny too because, like, you're you're told so many
things. And even if it's notabout religion, if it's about,
you know, your gender roles oryour your, you know, your role
as a community member orwhatever it is, And then when
you start to be like, I don'tthink that is true. Like,
there's there's nothing there'sno reward on the end of this
conformity. It's just sufferingon my part. Right?
(18:29):
And so, I thought like like yousaid, once I started to question
things and really be like, whatdo I want?
Kimberly (18:38):
When
Candice (18:39):
I said that I truly want and get quiet and listen to
myself and start to take stepstowards that, things just became
so much more worth living. Like,literally, you know, there's I
think especially if you're inthat role of, like, I need to do
what's right. I need to makeYeah. It is a lot of people
pleasing and a lot of, you know,behaviors like that. And you're
(19:02):
you're not satisfied and you'renot filled because you're not
listening to what you need orwhat you not want.
And then once you can start,like, stepping into that slowly,
you can realize like, oh, well,no wonder I was miserable
because, like, I was denyingeverything I needed to myself.
Kimberly (19:20):
Yes. Oh my god. Completely. Completely. Yeah.
Yeah. There's a feeling of,like, freedom. It's also free
fall, but you're like, okay. Ican also, like, create this.
And, you know, one of the thingsthat it felt really beautiful to
me was starting to develop arelationship with my, like,
(19:42):
inner self and what now I wouldsay, like, with my desires as
one where I could trust her.
You know, I think one of theharms that I didn't even know I
was experiencing with that wayof thinking that, like, your
desire is bad. And if you wantit, it's bad. If it feels good,
it's bad. Is it led me to reallythink, like, I can't trust
(20:04):
myself. And it sounds like, youknow, you resonate.
I know a lot of my clients dotoo. It's like that feeling that
at our core, you're not thevoice you can listen to. And
that is just such a that's sucha dangerous thing, you know, and
it did start to feel like, oh,I'm like reconnecting, maybe
(20:26):
connecting for the first timeever with like an inner me who I
can actually trust maybe evenbefore anyone else. You know, I
feel like so much of that goodgirl conditioning is like,
listen to outside authority,teachers and pastors and
parents, and it's so differentto be like, you are the
(20:48):
authority and other people canhelp. And that's so great to get
feedback and advice, but, youknow, that is like a different,
totally different ballgame.
Candice (21:00):
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's that, like you said, we
are so conditioned fromchildhood to, like, you have to
listen to the teacher. You haveto listen to your parents. You
have to listen to the, you know,whatever.
The rules. Follow the rules. Andso, yes, there's a balance to
keep kids safe, but alsoteaching them, like, what do you
(21:20):
internally want? And it's sofunny because my 9 year old I'll
be like, well, what do you wannado today? And you're like,
Kimberly (21:27):
oh, I don't know. Like, because there's Yeah.
Candice (21:29):
So many choices. Right? And so it can feel overwhelming
when you're first starting to dothis work to be like, what do I
really want?
Kimberly (21:37):
Yeah.
Candice (21:38):
And then, you know, I think you touched on, like, a
little bit of, like, sometimesit's, do I want a new career? Do
I want different relationships?Do I wanna set boundaries? And
some like, for me, what I'vekinda run up against too was,
like, I want, a level of lifethat other people are gonna be
(21:59):
upset about. Right?
Like Yeah. Like you'vementioned, the Paris thing.
There's a lot of, like, guiltthat comes with this and, like,
scariness because if I'm reallyhonest with people, they're
going to judge me. They're goingto say things to me because when
I've tried in little ways,
Kimberly (22:16):
like I
Candice (22:16):
bought that $400 purse or whatever, and then the person
was like, oh my God, I can'tbelieve you bought that purse.
Right. And so I think that's,there's another component to, of
like stepping through fear andthen also like a guilt aspect
that comes in.
Kimberly (22:32):
Yeah. Oh my God. I could not relate more to what
you're saying. And it's true.Like I would even go so far as
to say, like, it felt kind oflike I would die if people knew,
like, a, what I really wantedand then b, if they, like, saw
me going for it.
(22:54):
I I don't even know where insome ways, like, where that came
from. Like, obviously, we'retalking about how, like, book
comes from everywhere. Like,it's just like it's the air you
breathe in, but I even wonder iffor some of us it's like
ancestral and like way back,like women who stood out, women
(23:14):
who spoke up, like, what did wedo? You know, it feels kind of
like that fear. It's like, well,I'm gonna be not only
disapproved of, but that thatdisapproval might mean I'm
Candice (23:28):
dead. Banishment or, you
Kimberly (23:31):
know, being cast out. Right. Like, it's not just gonna
cost me, like, an eye roll fromsomebody. It could cost me,
like, my whole community.
Candice (23:39):
Yeah. You
Kimberly (23:40):
know, I think that that's so deep and it can feel
so dangerous in a way that, youknow, not everybody understands.
It's like, why can't you justbuy a purse, go to Paris, like,
whatever. It's like, woah, youdon't get it.
Candice (23:55):
You don't get it. Yeah.
Kimberly (23:56):
I'm gonna, like, die. Yeah.
Candice (23:59):
Yeah. It does feel very especially if you've had, like,
a lot of people in your past,when you're younger shaming you
or rejecting you or alienatingyou and you becoming, like like
people were like, oh, you're soprissy. And now it took me,
like, I really shadow bannedthat part of myself for a while.
(24:22):
Like, I remember a decade whereI wouldn't even wear the color
pink
Kimberly (24:25):
Right.
Candice (24:26):
Because it was too prissy, and it had to be, like,
hard or whatever. Like, it wasvery weird until, like Please.
Just recently in the last 5years, I was like, oh, so what
if I have a, like, a Hello Kittycup? Like, who gives a fuck?
Like, this is my life.
Right? Okay.
Kimberly (24:43):
I'm so glad you said that. Absolutely. I completely
hear you. And I just had a babydaughter a few months ago, and
I've been letting myself kindof, like, under the guise of
shopping for her. But, like,first she's like 4 months old.
She doesn't know like what'seven in her room, but I'm like,
it's such inner child feeling tobe like this pink thing and this
(25:06):
like swan and ballerinastocking, like, and it's so for
me, because it's so similar towhat you're saying that like
that part of us that was maybe,Yeah. Like just considered way
over the top, you know, likewhat if she got to come out? And
I often have thought, you know,I work with a lot of
(25:30):
entrepreneurs who then are likecelebrating different milestones
and it's like really popular inour industry to like buy a fancy
purse, which I love a fancypurse. I so support this for
people. But every once in awhile, there's something else
that is like the American girldoll that they like Oh
Candice (25:48):
my gosh.
Kimberly (25:49):
Have as a child or the like Yeah. Pink frilly dress
that, like, their partner wouldnever have loved or, you know,
something like that that reallyis even more aligned with, like,
what part of me was not allowedto come out.
Candice (26:04):
Mhmm. Yeah. I think that's so true. And, also, like,
you were talking about the innerchild work is such a integral
part of our healing. Nice.
Because, like, just for example,recently, I was at this
Vipassana meditation retreat,and I was not going well. And I,
like, sat with myself andbecause I've done, internal
(26:27):
family systems work before.
Kimberly (26:29):
Yeah.
Candice (26:30):
And so then it's like, okay. There's all these little
kids in me, like, different agesand stages. And I was like,
what's going on in here, guys?And, like, there's the part of
me that's, like, really angry.Like, we don't wanna be here,
and we want out of this.
And, like and so, I think, like,working with your inner child
(26:50):
can be so therapeutic, and itcan also, like, bring up a lot
of, like, judgment from people.So
Kimberly (26:57):
Yes.
Candice (26:57):
You know, if it's easier to take baby steps and do
it in a way where you're notgonna be, like, putting it on
social media or whatever, whichyou can still have that fun.
Like, I recently got really intobath bombs.
Kimberly (27:10):
Wow.
Candice (27:11):
And I was like, this is so silly, and it seems so
frivolous, but it brings me somuch joy. And I just don't,
like, loving just that number 1,like, acknowledging my inner
child is really having fun withthis. Yeah. But, also, it's
combining, like, a nurturingaspect and, like, a a Yes.
Aspect of, like, taking the timefor myself to not rush through a
(27:32):
shower.
I'm, like, sitting in thebathtub, which I know you love
bathtubs
Kimberly (27:35):
because you're, like, always posting bathtub pictures.
Speaking my language, but no,you're so it's so making sense.
Yeah. And to be like, there isan element of like, playfulness
and delight in here, but also itis like a deep confrontation
with, like, that part of youthat maybe was like, okay,
(27:58):
hurry, you know, like rush beonto the next thing. It's like
so different to just get to soakin your own luxury and, like,
inner child healing moment.
Yeah.
Candice (28:11):
I think too that's, like, the intersection of, like,
pleasure and joy, which I thinka lot of people confuse joy for
pleasure as well because theyare kind of, like, you know,
it's okay to be happy, but don'tbe too happy. Right? Like, it's
okay to have fun, but don't havetoo much fun. Right? Like,
there's Yeah.
That's another part of it wherejoy and pleasure, like,
(28:33):
interchange a lot for us. And Ithink it's another area where
people get, like, shamed or theyfeel guilty about it or Yeah.
You know, they they wanna betaken seriously.
Kimberly (28:43):
Right.
Candice (28:43):
So I don't know if you have, like, tips for people on
how to integrate that more.
Kimberly (28:49):
I love that question. You know, I think that one thing
that you already spoke to sowisely, but just to circle back
to around, like letting pleasurebe kind of like liberated from
being just about sex andsensuality, like that can be so
helpful and like givingourselves kind of permission to
(29:11):
find it everywhere. And I, Ihave really found the senses to
be kind of like a good guidewhere it's like, okay, like what
can I, what can I like see andtouch and smell and feel that
would like feel pleasurable orlike feel good, especially if
I'm feeling kind of likeoverwhelmed or I'm having a
(29:32):
moment of just likeneurodivergent, like executive
dysfunction, you know, havingkind of like a, okay, like, can
I like come back to my sensesand like burn a candle and drink
a coffee and wrap myself insomething soft? And there is
this like pleasure asexperienced, you know, that like
(29:56):
has been really grounding forme. And I find joy to be kind of
like the outcome, you know,building that more and more into
my life and getting more fluidin the language of my own desire
and pleasure.
It's like, oh, joy becomes thisbaseline. It's actually so
(30:17):
moving to think about this, andI haven't really before. But you
know, 10 years ago, before I wasdoing this work, my baseline was
like terror at like much morejust like, oh my God, you know,
somebody is going to like, firstof all, find out like how bad I
am inside, you know, that reallyfelt like such a strong current.
(30:41):
And I think that that is soinstilled and then, like,
capitalized on within, like,really high control religion.
Just that sense of, like, youknow, deep down, you're bad.
Yes. Life is about managing thatbadness from like not letting
more of it come out like, oh myGod. I mean, like teach it to
(31:03):
children. It's like so intense.And so, you know, I think I
really felt nervous all the timeand like scared and that feeling
of like, Oh, if anybody knewlike what was really going on in
here, I would like be so unlovedand, like, unworthy.
(31:26):
And it's so interesting and,like, amazing, honestly, to
think, like, my baseline now isgratitude and joy and, like,
life feels so good. Yeah. When Ithink about you know, I think
like all entrepreneurs, youknow, I, like, run this
$1,000,000 business. SometimesI'm like, what do I do? Do I do
anything?
What do I do? Yeah. I'm like,even just this conversation and,
(31:50):
like, reflecting on that changeand, like, it's as simple as,
like, I used to feel terrifiedall the time and now I feel joy
and, like, pleasure was thepath. Mhmm. That feels, like,
clear enough, honestly.
Yeah. The next time I'm freakingout, feeling like I don't do
anything real. I think I'm gonnarelisten to this episode. Yeah.
Candice (32:12):
I it's so funny. You touched on 2 really good things.
The the first one is, like, theI'm, at my true core, gonna be
evil, which is so funny that yousay that because I was like,
maybe this is just me. But the,when I started doing the to be
mad magnetic shadow work, thatwas my thing. And I read, the
(32:35):
dark side of the light chasersby Debbie Ford, but I was truly
and I'm I'm 99% sure that wasbecause of the religious stuff,
was that I believed at my very,very core, I was pure evil.
And then if anybody found outabout it, like, it's game over.
Right? And so as I started to dothe shadow work Wow. And work
with myself, I'm like, wait aminute. Yeah.
(32:57):
Pure evil? Like, yes, I I getangry sometimes and I, you know,
wanna beat somebody up orwhatever. Right? Like, whatever
comes up. But at my true core,there it was like this monster
that when I really brought itinto the light and started to
shed love and compassion on it,I was like, there's nothing
really evil here.
(33:17):
Like, why am I it was just thisfear that I was evil. And when I
really looked it in the face, Iwas like, oh, I'm not evil. And
so it was so liberating. Andthen like you said, like, the
other part of it is when you'reliving from that state of, like,
fear and anxiousness and worryand dread and misery and
(33:40):
suffering, and you start to moveinto the joy and gratitude and
peace and pleasure state, number1, it disrupts a lot of people
around you. Like, they're gonnabe, like, irritated by it.
Yeah. But it also is, I think,so taboo to live from that
place. Right? Like, especiallywhen you get into, like and I
(34:02):
try to, like, balance this, butwhen you get into that, like,
social justice warrior, like,woke culture where it's like,
how can I enjoy my pleasure andmy joy when Gaza is happening?
Right?
Like, there's all these thingsthat were it's so difficult to
kinda, like, integrate. Yeah.But, also, I can't like, there's
(34:23):
a couple different people thathave said it a couple different
ways, but, like, you sufferingisn't gonna stop them from
suffering. Like, you can't getpoor enough to help the poor, I
think, was a windy eye or thing.
Kimberly (34:33):
Yeah.
Candice (34:33):
So it's like, you know, how do we metabolize that? Like,
I want to feel good all thetime, and I wanna live a life
where I feel happy to wake up,and I feel like I can enjoy my
day Yeah. And not be burdenedwith guilt and shame and all
these other emotions. You know?
Kimberly (34:52):
No. I think it's really important to that we're
talking about that, and it istempting to skip it sometimes
and to just, like, leave outthat part of the equation
because it it can becomplicated. And I think it's
completely fair when people arelike, you know, how, how does
this all work together? Becauseit's not just about each
(35:15):
individual person, you know,feeling better. But at the end
of the day, I think you'reabsolutely right to say our own
misery doesn't tend to be thathelpful.
And when I look at my past andthink about those times where,
you know, I was more in my ownfear, my own anxiety, I was so
(35:36):
self absorbed by that, thatlike, there wasn't much to give
from. Yeah. And when I think nowabout, especially kind of like
the success piece around mybusiness, what I've been able to
do and this kind of feeling ofbeing an overflow and being able
to give from that. And I thinkthere's probably like an even
(36:00):
more, abstract version that'smore like with my attention and
with my focus, but I mean, evenjust like money, you know, it's
like, oh, the happier I've been,the better my life is, the more
I have literally, like, the moreI've been able to give. And it
has led me to believe, like,okay.
(36:23):
Do I think it's an easy answer?Like, absolutely not. But am I
noticing that, like, the moreand more of my life is filled
with pleasure, I'm able to giveand receive a lot more at like a
much higher level? Like, yes.And that does feel worth noting.
You know, it's, I don't thinkit's a perfect solution.
(36:45):
Obviously I have so muchprivilege. I have so much
access. I know that that's nottrue for everyone. And it does
tend to land me in the place offeeling like, yeah.
And the best thing I could dowith that is turn it into
something that feels good sothat I can like create and give
(37:06):
from that place.
Candice (37:07):
Yeah. Yeah. I agree because I feel like the more I
try to leave the the constant,like, suffering, misery, I feel
like shit all the time Yeah. Andmove into that state of, like,
joy and gratitude in meeting myneeds first, which Yeah. Seems
counterintuitive that if wefocus on ourselves, we would
(37:27):
have more to give, but thatreally is what I found the way
it works.
Like, the more I take care ofmyself or nurture myself and
love myself, the more overflow Ihave to give back to my
community. Or, like, if if we'relooking at money too, like, if
you're in a shitty vibe all daylong and you're, like, broke and
(37:47):
you don't have enough money forgas, you don't have money for
groceries, you can't help thehomeless person.
Kimberly (37:52):
I know.
Candice (37:53):
You can't go buy that McDonald's meal or something.
Right? Because Right. You don'thave enough money for your own
gas tank. So if you can elevateinto another, like, realm for
your finances, your power to beable to give back is so much
magnified.
You know? I think
Kimberly (38:08):
Yes.
Candice (38:09):
That's something I've been working on a lot in the
last couple years is, like,figuring out how can I move the
needle? You know what I mean? Sothat I'm operating from a place
of, like, overflow and abundanceand increase in income. And I
like that you said, like, thatpleasure was your path Yeah.
(38:31):
Away from, like, the academiaand, like, all these things you
were supposed to do.
You started, like, bucking thenorm and being, like, let's
follow the the pleasure trail.Yeah. And then suddenly, like,
money is flowing. Like, I canyou talk more about, like, how
those are connected?
Kimberly (38:47):
Yeah. Like, wait a minute. Is there, like, a piece
missing here? I mean, I think acouple of things. And one is
that, like, I did end up takingwhat I had been through and
turning it into like courses anda coaching program that I
thought could help other peoplein charging for that.
(39:08):
And so that's why I called mybusiness uncover. Like it felt
very like, okay, like thisprocess for me has been like
kind of stripping down and likefiguring out like who I really
am. And I do now believe that wepretty much all have that. Like
we all have something we didthat was hard for us. Or maybe
(39:30):
not, maybe it was easy and wecould teach other people and get
paid.
And it just kind of changed mylife to think that, like, not
only could I have been throughthis, but maybe I could help
other people too. I've even nowadded a twist to the last year
where I've been like, I feellike you're getting paid back
for all of this stuff I
Candice (39:51):
went through. That's I wanna latch onto that because
I'm like, oh, I want some, whatis that called? Like, residuals
or something, like backpayments?
Kimberly (40:02):
My god. Residuals. You should talk about this. Yeah. I
felt like I was getting kind of,like, a refund for my, like, for
the trouble that I've beenthrough.
And so if any if that's, like, ahelpful paradigm for anyone feel
free and obviously like the flipside of it, that's like maybe
even a little sweeter to talkabout is like, yeah, like I went
(40:24):
through this. Can I make someoneelse's version easier? Someone
else's journey a little bitbetter. Like my, one of my very
first courses was about likereclaiming your body basically
after like sexual trauma orreligious trauma or just like
all those things we've beentalking about about just feeling
like you're bad, pleasure's bad,like really hard to have an
(40:48):
orgasm, like from that space.And so the thought that like it
could shorten someone else'stime span that I could receive
money for this and that we couldbe creating kind of like a new
paradigm even of like, what isbusiness?
What is money? Like, what is allthis for? What if it's actually
(41:08):
about like supporting women asthey, like, tell their story and
change the narrative for otherwomen? Like, it just felt really
radical to me. But on a lessliteral level, because that was,
like, literally, like, I'm usingpleasure and selling it,
basically.
Candice (41:27):
Yeah. Well, I mean Yeah. It's been done for ages
except to to the male to themale gaze. Right? Like, if we
look at the pornography industryRight.
It's all majority focused onmale pleasure, and Right. The
star of the show is the guy, andit's all about what he wants.
And so even just that, that's a$1,000,000,000 that people make
(41:51):
money off of night and day. Andso Yeah. What's what's the
difference between yeah.
Our side. Yeah.
Kimberly (41:57):
100%. Like, why not our version about healing and
empowerment? And for anybodywho's like, okay, I don't wanna
be a coach or a course creator.That's fine. I do still think
trusting, like learning to trustthose pleasure breadcrumbs and
like follow them toward thething like we are supposed to be
(42:21):
doing is, like, still the path,you know, even if it, like,
lands you somewhere else, it'sslightly less terrifying job.
Yeah. But, yeah, there issomething something in me had to
really shift because even yeah.Of course, academia, It was,
like, coming at me from allsides. Church, academia, like,
(42:41):
liberal, which I'm very liberal,social justice y stuff. It was
like, oh, yeah.
Anything good is bad. Yeah. In,like, all of these realms. Mhmm.
Like, and no Paris for any ofthem.
Yeah. You know, just, like, verystrict. Mhmm. And this idea
that, like, okay, I've gottadeprogram from this idea that,
like, the only way to be good isto be, like, miserable and sad
(43:04):
and, like, in a librarybasement, like, having
everything in the light of day.Yeah.
And instead start to be like,what if, if it feels good for
me, it's good for me. And whatif the more I do that, the more
I can like trust myself and whatif I can trust it? It's like
leading me to, you know, thepeople I meant to be with, but
(43:27):
also the work I meant to bedoing.
Candice (43:30):
Yeah. I think that's true. Like, if we go back to
even just, like, the the socialjustice work is if your work
reaches more women and morewomen become empowered and are
able to trust themselves and togrow their own personal pleasure
and joy
Kimberly (43:46):
Right.
Candice (43:47):
It's a societal effect. Right? It's a ripple effect.
Right? Because it's gonna like,what's that?
The rising tide lifts all ofJesus kind of thing. Right? And
so this isn't just about youbeing greedy and wanting to make
1,000,000 of dollars. It's alsobecause you're you're helping
people in the process. Right?
Like, you're empowering otherwomen to to listen to their own
(44:08):
inner voice and take the stepsthat are gonna work for them.
Yeah. But, yeah, I think thatthere's again, like the smoking
gun you talked about, there's areason why they wanna keep us
all miserable. They wanna keepus all, like, depressed. And
Yeah.
It's funny you talked aboutorgasm because I think that's
another aspect too is, like,there's so many of us on, and
(44:30):
I'm currently not on, but, like,antidepressants and antianxiety
meds. Yeah. And one of the sideeffects of those is, like, not
being able to have orgasm or notbeing able to, like, have, like,
sexual you can't like, you'renumb. You're numbing not only
your emotions, but you'renumbing, like, your other stuff
too. And so name.
I feel like, you know, if welook at, like, what's the root
(44:53):
cause of all this suffering andhow can we step out of it each
in our own way and empower eachother to take those steps even
though, you know, it may feelkind of scary or weird or may we
may have guilt over it. ButRight. And I know we only have,
like, 15 minutes left, and Iknow you love Gilmore Girls.
(45:13):
I've been watching Gilmore Girlslately. I'm, like, in season 6
now.
And so, like, to wrap it out, Iwanted to be like, who is your
favorite character on the show?Uh-huh. Who's, like, your least
I know there's a completedeparture from what we were
talking about, but
Kimberly (45:27):
I wanted to ask. No. My Gilmore Girls advent calendar
is like right here. I'm like soready for this. I love season 6.
So I this is a good questionthough, because I really have
thought about, like, you know,growing up watching it.
Candice (45:47):
So I just wanna acknowledge that the recording
cut off abruptly. I thought wehad got it all, but, apparently,
we lost, like, the last fewminutes of the recording with
doctor Kimberly Rose Pendleton.And so, basically, to reframe,
she was sharing with me that shereally loved all, you know, Rory
(46:08):
and Lorelei and Emily Gilmore asthe seasons progressed and as
she saw that their, you know,trajectory of their personal
development in the show. And sowe talked a little bit about,
like, the character she didn'tlike was Kirk because she saw
him as, like, flighty, but thensomeone compared her to Kirk,
and it was, like, reallyoffensive to her. But, anyway,
I'm rerecording this part sothat the podcast doesn't seem
(46:30):
kind of random me rambling.
It was me talking and no oneelse on the last, like, 10
minutes of the show. So itdidn't make any sense for me to
leave it like that, and we wereunable to regain the recording
that we had. It's just, like,lost in space somewhere. So I
did want to wrap up with saying,if you wanna dive into doctor
(46:52):
Kimberly's work, you can findher on Instagram at doctor
Kimberly Rose Pendleton. You'll,see her picture.
I think she's wearing, like, apink dress. I also have linked
all of her stuff down below inthe show notes if you're wanting
to go to her website. She hasfree materials on there about
recovering from purity cultureand regaining control of your
(47:15):
pleasure. She also has,something happening right now
online where you can sign up andget some free content on the
good witch, I think, is the onethat's out currently. But you
can go to her website that'salso linked below and, follow
her work, learn more about howyou can integrate pleasure in
(47:36):
your own life and make it yourown in your own daily practice.
So I hope you all enjoyed thisepisode. Have a great day.
Thanks so much for watching andlistening.
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