May 20, 2025 • 23 mins
“Parks protect the land, but just as importantly, they protect the stories that shaped our nation.”
There are a number of ways parks can contribute to the United States’ 250th anniversary. From South Carolina’s rich revolutionary history to the roles western parks can play, this conversation highlights how parks serve as stewards of history, not just nature. Phil joins to share his involvement with state commissions and the American Battlefield Trust, offering ideas for programming, preservation, and storytelling.
Read the blog for more from this episode.
Notable Moments
[02:30] Phil’s work with commissions and battlefield preservation
[04:02] Lexington and Concord: the shot heard around the world
[06:29] Parks' role in preserving and retelling history
[09:30] Revolutionary stories from South Carolina
[11:30] Creating commissions across the U.S.
[13:00] The opportunity for storytelling and youth engagement
[17:11] Andrew Jackson’s teenage war story
[20:48] Importance of land preservation
[21:51] How every state can contribute to the celebration
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to the Park Leader Show where we are changing the landscape of
leadership in parks and conservation. I'm your host, Jody
Mayberry, and back by popular demand is the
semi regular guest cohost, the retired
director of South Carolina State Parks, Phil Gaines. Welcome back,
Phil. Oh, it's good to be back, Jody. How in the world are you?
(00:25):
Oh, Phil. I'm great. I had my trip to
Chile, Southern Chile. It was just incredible. We
need to talk about that on on an episode because that was that was kinda
like a trip of a lifetime. You showed me some pictures and video.
Unbelievable. Yes. It's quite an adventure. It was an adventure.
And maybe I won't talk about it here so we can do an episode
(00:47):
just about it. I'm a little more interested right now in some
of the work you've been doing. So Phil has been
on some committees and doing some consulting and some
counseling about the upcoming two hundred
and fiftieth anniversary of the United States,
the birthday of The United States. So, Phil, as we get started
(01:09):
here, I had to look it up. What is a two hundred and
fiftieth anniversary called? You told me that in
South Carolina, it's called Sester Centennial. Right? That's
what you said? Right. The Sester Centennial. I saw here
there's also semi quincentennial and
Right. Bison quintennial, which is different than, like
(01:32):
that's not saying, like, 200 bison or 500 bison. That's,
like, half of I don't know. I get confused, Phil. What do you tend
to call it? I call it the two fiftieth. Okay.
Because I'm I'm not the smartest guy in the world, and sometimes I mispronounced
seskircentennial. And sometimes it makes me sound like I'm really from the
backwoods when I say Susker Centennial. So,
(01:54):
it's the two hundred and fiftieth. So in South Carolina, we have a
commission that's called the Susker Centennial two fiftieth
commission. And so I've been doing some work with our two fiftieth commission
and doing some work with the American Battlefield Trust, which is a
nonprofit organization out of Virginia area that does a
lot of battlefield protection and and protection for
(02:17):
America's battlefields, not just revolutionary war, but civil war,
but they're really focusing on some stuff with the revolutionary war. And so
I've been working on some site development and, land
preservation projects here in in South Carolina. So
it's it's pretty fascinating. And and depending on where you're at in
the country, it could be very relevant for where
(02:39):
you're at or, you know, very interesting in kind of
figuring out where you play a part in this
celebration of the greatest nation that the Earth has
ever known in the creation of The United States and,
you know, this grand experiment that we call democracy
or republic, whichever way you wanna look at it. But so, like,
(03:01):
some of the Western states, it's, you know, obviously was not there
in 1776. So kind of unique
in it. Where do some of the Western states who were not part of the
original 13, where do you fit in in the celebration of
the two fiftieth? And, you know, maybe on the surface, you say, well,
we're really not a part of that. But, really, you are an
(03:24):
essential part of that. The whole start of the this whole nation
was this westward movement and, you know, the Monroe
Doctrine and all those things that we learned about in history and civics.
So I think every state in the union can
play a significant part in the celebration of the two hundred and
fiftieth anniversary of the United States. And I think as
(03:46):
part folks, what an opportunity for you to do some
programming and to do some things that kinda focus
on the celebration that will will start really soon.
So I'd I'll say a couple of things, and then I'll I'll slow down a
little bit. But it really kicked off a couple of weeks ago
with the Battle of Lexington Concord that just
(04:08):
took place, and it's the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of that. And that
is the shot that was heard around the world and and some
of the, you know, some of the founding fathers were talking about. We
really wanna get this thing corrected with England. But
once election and Concord happened, it was kinda like, it is
too late now. We've we've really this thing has started.
(04:31):
So this happened in
1775. So the Cesker
Centennial, the two physicists, really kicks off, like, in, you
know, July 4, which is every American thinks of our birth
date is July 4. So we got
some time to work up to that big celebratory moment that we'll
(04:51):
all celebrate as Americans, you know, the creation of our
country, but so many opportunities as
park folks around the country to talk about the
role that our states and that, the places that we care
about, how they came about and how they're a
part of of this celebration of our nation's two hundred and fiftieth
(05:13):
anniversary. Pretty cool. This is so exciting, Phil. And
I I think you've touched on a couple of my favorite
things about parks without outright saying it. And I
know parks on the surface are about
conservation and recreation, but what
else we do is protect the stories of our country.
(05:36):
And this is a great example of that. We've protected the story for
all these years. Now we get the chance to retell pieces of it.
And one of the things I'm interested in, Phil, because South Carolina, which by
the way, I did not realize how much of the
revolutionary war was in South Carolina until I
visited. And then it's like everywhere you go. But those aren't the
(05:58):
stories you hear in the rest of the country. But my goodness, South
Carolina played a pivotal role. So it's really easy
if you're in Phil's shoes to see where Parks need to be telling
this story. He touched a little bit about if you're a western
park, do you even have a role in it? And maybe we'll get
to more of that, Phil. But what I'm really interested in is what
(06:20):
role do you see Parks playing in
retelling this story and helping celebrate the two hundred and
fiftieth anniversary? Well, I think it's a great opportunity to talk about
some of the concepts that we still hold true today and we really
believe in of, you know, life, liberty, and the pursuit of
happiness and those things that are fundamental on who we are.
(06:42):
But it's also as as part folks is, you know, what we
remember about history is characters
and stories. And the revolutionary war era
for, you know, the Eastern States is filled with
fascinating, interesting characters and stories that tell the
story of of our nation. And you tie that into
(07:05):
like, as soon as this grand experiment takes place,
immediately, it continues to grow and to expand. And that's
why I think that is if you're from West Of The Mississippi,
there's still a place and there's still a role for you to play in here.
And let's take Texas, for example. I know we have a lot of listeners from
Texas. What an opportunity to talk about, you know, that
(07:27):
Texas was its own country before it became a state. So, you know, you
kinda tie in how your state was formed and what it
meant and why it was important, you know, in this westward movement
that the founding fathers had. Here in South Carolina, it's, you know,
one of the the jokes, I guess, or sayings that we have in South
Carolina. We're a small state, but we're we're a state rich in
(07:49):
history from the very beginning. And so in South
Carolina, there were battles all over our state. In fact, there
were more battles and skirmishes fought in the state of South Carolina
than any other state. That being said is that whenever
you go to any county in the state of South Carolina,
there's a battle or skirmish there, and the local folks wanna tell you
(08:11):
about this battle or skirmish there. And every single one of them
was the turning point of the revolution. So that's kind of a joke. It's like,
you know how we are. We're proud of of where we came from. And
I think as part of the story is telling about this pride that we have.
And so every community I go into, they'll show me no matter how
large or small a battle or skirmish it was, they'll always look up to
(08:32):
me with pride in their eyes, and they'll go like, you do know
this was the turning point of the revolution. And I just say,
absolutely. Tell me more. So in South Carolina, one of the things that
we're doing is we're telling some of those stories because over
the years and, you know, a lot of people think that because
of the role that South Carolina played in the civil war,
(08:55):
that some of the things that we did in the revolutionary war
were kinda diminished because we did not play nice in the civil
war. So here's an opportunity for us to kinda tell the
story of some of the things we have. So give you an idea of some
of the characters in South Carolina that were critical in the revolutionary
war. The most well known character, I guess,
(09:17):
in the revolutionary war. More things were named after this
individual than anybody else in the revolutionary war period.
And that would be who would you think that would be? The obvious. Everything's named
after this guy in the revolution. Well, I think the obvious
answer is George Washington, except he's from Virginia. Yeah.
So George Washington George Washington has more things named after
(09:39):
him in our country than any other Okay. Member of that
generation. The second one who has the most things named after
him is Francis Marion, who was the swamp fox
from South Carolina. And so part of that, the story of the swamp
fox is that he did fascinating things, and he was the swamp
fox. But also part of that, you bring in some American culture.
(10:02):
And his reputation and his image was probably a little bit
enhanced by Walt Disney when he did the TV
show and the movies of Swamp Fox, and then probably enhanced
again when, Mel Gibson portrayed his
character like person in The Patriot.
But, you know, so Francis Marion is this great name from the
(10:24):
revolution that's from South Carolina. So the Carolinas,
Virginia, New Jersey, and those things. So right
now, every state has the opportunity create to
create a commission called the America two fifty, and it will
celebrate the anniversary on 07/04/2026.
There's about 20 states who have real active two
(10:46):
fiftieth commissions. Most of those are in the places that you would
think with some exceptions, North Dakota, Utah,
Texas, some of those states have two fiftieth commissions
that are doing some things. But each state is kinda charged
on their own to kinda tell their own story of how they're
going to commemorate and celebrate the two fiftieth.
(11:09):
So here in South Carolina, most of the
battles that were fought in South Carolina were fought a
little bit later on. So when we get to 2026,
that's when all the hoopla is gonna come, and that's when all the attention's gonna
come on this. Well, not a lot of things happen in South Carolina
in 1776. The British took Charleston
(11:32):
and, took Camden, Two of our larger cities,
early on, and they occupied South Carolina. And it wasn't until
later on in the in the war that South Carolina
really became pivotal in what they call the southern campaign.
So South Carolina has a lot of the the bigger battles and
skirmishes that we nationally know about were not fought until,
(11:55):
you know, the seventeen eighties. So we'll celebrate this thing, you
know, deep into twenty, thirty, thirty one
because some of the battles don't end until that. So it really kicks
off in '76, and then it goes, you know, in
well, for us, the two fiftieth will be in in
2026. But there will be battles fought, you know, for
(12:16):
the next five to six years. So it's not everything's gonna be
done in 2026 and then it's over. This is a
long celebration to talk about the war of independence and
and the revolution. So there are so many opportunities, and and I'm
I'm really excited in having a lot of fun of doing
some historic preservation and doing some site work and
(12:39):
interpretation to talk about this because there's a whole
generation out there that we really need to reconnect to.
And we you know, I I keep telling the folks that I work with, the
way you connect with new generations who are interested in
this is through stories and and people, stories and
characters. And I'm sure throughout our nation, there are
(13:00):
lots of stories and characters to tell, you know, about how
this country was formed and all the way from
Charlestown and South Carolina all the way to the West Coast. I
mean, this is the story of America. And, you know, as
the Ken Burns documentary talks about and out of all
this, one of our greatest ideas was America's
(13:21):
parks, the National Park Service, but how we how we
have cared for and steward the lands that
that very early on in this revolution,
the founding father says this manifest destiny and this, you
know, quest to go west from Jefferson and Louisiana
purchased all the way to the Monroe doctrine. And it's just
(13:44):
fascinating. It really is to kinda relive some of these stories
and and how this ragtag bunch of folks in
in this new world took home the most powerful nation in the world and
and won this conflict. It's it's still fascinating in a, you know, in
a kind of a sense of pride for us Americans. Yeah. It sure is.
And Phil touched on something that I think makes all the difference
(14:07):
is people connect to history through stories
and people. The swamp fox is a great
example, which, Phil, that would have been a great nickname for you. I don't know
why we didn't think of that sooner. I hear you. But
when when I think of other parks, Phil mentioned, if you're
out West, if you weren't in one of the areas that had direct
(14:28):
battles, do you have a role in this? I was thinking a little
about that, Phil. And I think if you're in
Missouri or Arizona, Oregon, telling the
story of what was going on in those places
while the revolutionary war was happening
helps people understand the whole story of our country
(14:51):
and and how we got to where we are now. So, yes, there
are unlimited stories in places like South Carolina. But I also think
there's great stories to be told elsewhere even
if it wasn't a America hadn't
reached that far yet, there still were things going on
there that tell the story that from coast to
(15:13):
coast, you start to understand what was going on at that time.
And because there were things going on in Oregon, Washington,
California Yeah. That didn't lend directly to the war but
are part of the the bigger story. And I think of
you talking about some of the the people in the stories. The
revolutionary war on its own is so big it's hard to
(15:35):
comprehend, which is probably why we hear stories
about Benedict Arnold and George Washington in
places like Boston and New York and New Jersey because
it's it's too big otherwise. But when you break it down
into stories about people, well, that's how we can
start to understand what happened in South Carolina and
(15:57):
in all these other locations. And I think that's the role
that we play as parks is we take something that now
is 250 years old, which worldwide,
that's not a very old history. Here in The United States,
that's so old, it's almost hard to comprehend because
nothing else here is that that old in our history.
(16:19):
So turning it into stories about
people, I think that's how you really make that connection. And
it's so good to hear what you're doing in South Carolina to make that
happen. You know, and you tell this one little story and it leads to
another story, and it leads to another story and another era.
And so one of the projects who we're working on is a young
(16:41):
Andrew Jackson, who is from South Carolina in an area called
the Waxhaws. So young Andrew Jackson, who's
probably 12 to 14 years old when he's in South Carolina
doing this. And, he's captured by the British and
jailed in Camden, South Carolina. And he's put in the jail in
Camden. And a British officer comes to him and and tells him
(17:03):
to shine his boots. And a young Andy Jackson
tells him in no uncertain terms, no. He will not do that.
And the the British officer pulls his sword
and slings it across Andrew Jackson's face. And
Andrew Jackson, little Andy puts his arm up to
keep the sword from hitting him. It hits his arm, and it cuts his face.
(17:26):
And, he carries that scar with him for the rest of his life.
And, you know, and it impacted how he felt about relations
with England. And then so you take that little story that happened right
down the road here, and then you talk about when we start getting a little
bit more developed in this westward expansion movement and
then Jefferson and figuring out what's over there, and
(17:48):
then the whole Lewis and Clark thing comes in. And, like, we really
don't know what's beyond those Appalachians and, you
know, what's beyond this river and what's and so you you do this
trek out west with Lewis and Clark, and then you you learn
about indigenous people and how all of a sudden this is kinda going to impact.
So it's just it continues to grow, and this snowball gets bigger and
(18:11):
bigger and bigger. And it's it comes back to, so why
did all this take place? And it's like this quest for
freedom and that we had in America because
we're kind of this group of folks that still to this day
don't like to be told what to do and have this streak of independence.
And I think it's fascinating. And as park rangers, you know, really
(18:33):
good opportunity in 2026 to build on all
the hoopla in celebration that's gonna go on about the
declaration of independence. And so what does that mean for us
here in Washington or Oregon or Kansas
or, you know, North Dakota, some of those places that you're
saying, we really didn't do, but, oh, you
(18:55):
did. And part of the reason they're fighting for that is that,
you know and you tie in all these stories. I think it's a great opportunity
for parks in general to piggyback on this
February, once in a real lifetime celebration of
how we do it. And, you know, in in South Carolina,
you know, '76, it started, but the last major battle in
(19:17):
South Carolina was in 1781. So, you
know, that's that's five years of, you know,
storytelling and programs. And so and by
the time you get to 1781, we're starting to think about, you know,
what this country is gonna look like and how we're gonna be portrayed
around the world. And and then you're starting to hear stories of
(19:39):
other places, like, you know, slowly, Tennessee,
Kentucky, crossing the river, Missouri, and then,
you know, Lewis and Clark and native peoples. And
it's a pretty complicated continent that we're living on and is,
there's two hundred and fifty years of this country being part of
that shaping of what this continent's gonna be and look like. So
(20:03):
I'm excited about it. Doing a lot of good stuff. One of the things
that that the American Battlefield Trust does is and the the
South Carolina two fiftieth, and I know a lot of other states around the country
are doing, is they're doing some, historic preservation
and, preserving some of these sites in perpetuity,
not just for this generation to celebrate, but for when they do the
(20:25):
tricentennial, you know, in in fifty years, they'll we'll
have another celebration, hopefully, of three hundred years. So it's
you know, historic preservation is a part of this
as well so that we preserve and protect some of this hallowed ground
that that we did. And maybe we can talk about that one day
about historic preservation and public lands and the importance of that
(20:47):
as well. But that's part of what we're doing here in the
in the Southeast is trying to preserve and protect some of these
places that had battles on it, people literally fought and died
for the causes that they believed in. With the growth that the
Southeast is having, you know, we need to protect these battlefield
sites or they'll be lost. And there are some sites that are
(21:09):
lost. So how do you interpret those things going forward?
So as as park people from across the country, I urge you
to look at your state and see what your state is doing for
the two hundred and fiftieth celebration and then find a
way where you fit in. Certainly, if you're in one of those
original 13 colonies, there are countless opportunities for
(21:32):
you to jump on board. But even if you're not one of those original
13 colonies, there are real opportunities for you to talk about how
this country went from what happened at Lexington Concord and in
Philadelphia from sea to shining sea. So it's
a good time to be an American and celebrate the two hundred and
fiftieth anniversary. Well, Phil, this has me certainly
(21:54):
looking forward to the 200 coming
up. If you have any questions
that, on how you can get involved in having
a two hundred and fiftieth celebration. Maybe reach out to Phil because
he's well aware of what's going on in plenty of parks.
If you know that your park or your community is doing
(22:16):
something to celebrate and you want us to know, please do reach
out. You can reach me at jody, j o d y, at park
leaders dot com. Tell us what you're planning because Phil
and I are trying to keep an eye on that, on what's going on in
parks around the country for the two hundred and fiftieth celebration. Phil,
I'm so glad you you came back. It's it's been a little while since you've
(22:38):
been here. Been busy. Been out in the swamps chasing the Swamp Fox.
Alright. Well, I'm glad you have. Thanks so much, Phil, and thank you for listening
to the park leaders show.
Welcome to the Park Leader Show where we are changing the landscape of
leadership in parks and conservation. I'm your host, Jody
Mayberry, and back by popular demand is the
semi regular guest cohost, the retired
director of South Carolina State Parks, Phil Gaines. Welcome back,
Phil. Oh, it's good to be back, Jody. How in the world are you?
(00:25):
Oh, Phil. I'm great. I had my trip to
Chile, Southern Chile. It was just incredible. We
need to talk about that on on an episode because that was that was kinda
like a trip of a lifetime. You showed me some pictures and video.
Unbelievable. Yes. It's quite an adventure. It was an adventure.
And maybe I won't talk about it here so we can do an episode
(00:47):
just about it. I'm a little more interested right now in some
of the work you've been doing. So Phil has been
on some committees and doing some consulting and some
counseling about the upcoming two hundred
and fiftieth anniversary of the United States,
the birthday of The United States. So, Phil, as we get started
(01:09):
here, I had to look it up. What is a two hundred and
fiftieth anniversary called? You told me that in
South Carolina, it's called Sester Centennial. Right? That's
what you said? Right. The Sester Centennial. I saw here
there's also semi quincentennial and
Right. Bison quintennial, which is different than, like
(01:32):
that's not saying, like, 200 bison or 500 bison. That's,
like, half of I don't know. I get confused, Phil. What do you tend
to call it? I call it the two fiftieth. Okay.
Because I'm I'm not the smartest guy in the world, and sometimes I mispronounced
seskircentennial. And sometimes it makes me sound like I'm really from the
backwoods when I say Susker Centennial. So,
(01:54):
it's the two hundred and fiftieth. So in South Carolina, we have a
commission that's called the Susker Centennial two fiftieth
commission. And so I've been doing some work with our two fiftieth commission
and doing some work with the American Battlefield Trust, which is a
nonprofit organization out of Virginia area that does a
lot of battlefield protection and and protection for
(02:17):
America's battlefields, not just revolutionary war, but civil war,
but they're really focusing on some stuff with the revolutionary war. And so
I've been working on some site development and, land
preservation projects here in in South Carolina. So
it's it's pretty fascinating. And and depending on where you're at in
the country, it could be very relevant for where
(02:39):
you're at or, you know, very interesting in kind of
figuring out where you play a part in this
celebration of the greatest nation that the Earth has
ever known in the creation of The United States and,
you know, this grand experiment that we call democracy
or republic, whichever way you wanna look at it. But so, like,
(03:01):
some of the Western states, it's, you know, obviously was not there
in 1776. So kind of unique
in it. Where do some of the Western states who were not part of the
original 13, where do you fit in in the celebration of
the two fiftieth? And, you know, maybe on the surface, you say, well,
we're really not a part of that. But, really, you are an
(03:24):
essential part of that. The whole start of the this whole nation
was this westward movement and, you know, the Monroe
Doctrine and all those things that we learned about in history and civics.
So I think every state in the union can
play a significant part in the celebration of the two hundred and
fiftieth anniversary of the United States. And I think as
(03:46):
part folks, what an opportunity for you to do some
programming and to do some things that kinda focus
on the celebration that will will start really soon.
So I'd I'll say a couple of things, and then I'll I'll slow down a
little bit. But it really kicked off a couple of weeks ago
with the Battle of Lexington Concord that just
(04:08):
took place, and it's the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of that. And that
is the shot that was heard around the world and and some
of the, you know, some of the founding fathers were talking about. We
really wanna get this thing corrected with England. But
once election and Concord happened, it was kinda like, it is
too late now. We've we've really this thing has started.
(04:31):
So this happened in
1775. So the Cesker
Centennial, the two physicists, really kicks off, like, in, you
know, July 4, which is every American thinks of our birth
date is July 4. So we got
some time to work up to that big celebratory moment that we'll
(04:51):
all celebrate as Americans, you know, the creation of our
country, but so many opportunities as
park folks around the country to talk about the
role that our states and that, the places that we care
about, how they came about and how they're a
part of of this celebration of our nation's two hundred and fiftieth
(05:13):
anniversary. Pretty cool. This is so exciting, Phil. And
I I think you've touched on a couple of my favorite
things about parks without outright saying it. And I
know parks on the surface are about
conservation and recreation, but what
else we do is protect the stories of our country.
(05:36):
And this is a great example of that. We've protected the story for
all these years. Now we get the chance to retell pieces of it.
And one of the things I'm interested in, Phil, because South Carolina, which by
the way, I did not realize how much of the
revolutionary war was in South Carolina until I
visited. And then it's like everywhere you go. But those aren't the
(05:58):
stories you hear in the rest of the country. But my goodness, South
Carolina played a pivotal role. So it's really easy
if you're in Phil's shoes to see where Parks need to be telling
this story. He touched a little bit about if you're a western
park, do you even have a role in it? And maybe we'll get
to more of that, Phil. But what I'm really interested in is what
(06:20):
role do you see Parks playing in
retelling this story and helping celebrate the two hundred and
fiftieth anniversary? Well, I think it's a great opportunity to talk about
some of the concepts that we still hold true today and we really
believe in of, you know, life, liberty, and the pursuit of
happiness and those things that are fundamental on who we are.
(06:42):
But it's also as as part folks is, you know, what we
remember about history is characters
and stories. And the revolutionary war era
for, you know, the Eastern States is filled with
fascinating, interesting characters and stories that tell the
story of of our nation. And you tie that into
(07:05):
like, as soon as this grand experiment takes place,
immediately, it continues to grow and to expand. And that's
why I think that is if you're from West Of The Mississippi,
there's still a place and there's still a role for you to play in here.
And let's take Texas, for example. I know we have a lot of listeners from
Texas. What an opportunity to talk about, you know, that
(07:27):
Texas was its own country before it became a state. So, you know, you
kinda tie in how your state was formed and what it
meant and why it was important, you know, in this westward movement
that the founding fathers had. Here in South Carolina, it's, you know,
one of the the jokes, I guess, or sayings that we have in South
Carolina. We're a small state, but we're we're a state rich in
(07:49):
history from the very beginning. And so in South
Carolina, there were battles all over our state. In fact, there
were more battles and skirmishes fought in the state of South Carolina
than any other state. That being said is that whenever
you go to any county in the state of South Carolina,
there's a battle or skirmish there, and the local folks wanna tell you
(08:11):
about this battle or skirmish there. And every single one of them
was the turning point of the revolution. So that's kind of a joke. It's like,
you know how we are. We're proud of of where we came from. And
I think as part of the story is telling about this pride that we have.
And so every community I go into, they'll show me no matter how
large or small a battle or skirmish it was, they'll always look up to
(08:32):
me with pride in their eyes, and they'll go like, you do know
this was the turning point of the revolution. And I just say,
absolutely. Tell me more. So in South Carolina, one of the things that
we're doing is we're telling some of those stories because over
the years and, you know, a lot of people think that because
of the role that South Carolina played in the civil war,
(08:55):
that some of the things that we did in the revolutionary war
were kinda diminished because we did not play nice in the civil
war. So here's an opportunity for us to kinda tell the
story of some of the things we have. So give you an idea of some
of the characters in South Carolina that were critical in the revolutionary
war. The most well known character, I guess,
(09:17):
in the revolutionary war. More things were named after this
individual than anybody else in the revolutionary war period.
And that would be who would you think that would be? The obvious. Everything's named
after this guy in the revolution. Well, I think the obvious
answer is George Washington, except he's from Virginia. Yeah.
So George Washington George Washington has more things named after
(09:39):
him in our country than any other Okay. Member of that
generation. The second one who has the most things named after
him is Francis Marion, who was the swamp fox
from South Carolina. And so part of that, the story of the swamp
fox is that he did fascinating things, and he was the swamp
fox. But also part of that, you bring in some American culture.
(10:02):
And his reputation and his image was probably a little bit
enhanced by Walt Disney when he did the TV
show and the movies of Swamp Fox, and then probably enhanced
again when, Mel Gibson portrayed his
character like person in The Patriot.
But, you know, so Francis Marion is this great name from the
(10:24):
revolution that's from South Carolina. So the Carolinas,
Virginia, New Jersey, and those things. So right
now, every state has the opportunity create to
create a commission called the America two fifty, and it will
celebrate the anniversary on 07/04/2026.
There's about 20 states who have real active two
(10:46):
fiftieth commissions. Most of those are in the places that you would
think with some exceptions, North Dakota, Utah,
Texas, some of those states have two fiftieth commissions
that are doing some things. But each state is kinda charged
on their own to kinda tell their own story of how they're
going to commemorate and celebrate the two fiftieth.
(11:09):
So here in South Carolina, most of the
battles that were fought in South Carolina were fought a
little bit later on. So when we get to 2026,
that's when all the hoopla is gonna come, and that's when all the attention's gonna
come on this. Well, not a lot of things happen in South Carolina
in 1776. The British took Charleston
(11:32):
and, took Camden, Two of our larger cities,
early on, and they occupied South Carolina. And it wasn't until
later on in the in the war that South Carolina
really became pivotal in what they call the southern campaign.
So South Carolina has a lot of the the bigger battles and
skirmishes that we nationally know about were not fought until,
(11:55):
you know, the seventeen eighties. So we'll celebrate this thing, you
know, deep into twenty, thirty, thirty one
because some of the battles don't end until that. So it really kicks
off in '76, and then it goes, you know, in
well, for us, the two fiftieth will be in in
2026. But there will be battles fought, you know, for
(12:16):
the next five to six years. So it's not everything's gonna be
done in 2026 and then it's over. This is a
long celebration to talk about the war of independence and
and the revolution. So there are so many opportunities, and and I'm
I'm really excited in having a lot of fun of doing
some historic preservation and doing some site work and
(12:39):
interpretation to talk about this because there's a whole
generation out there that we really need to reconnect to.
And we you know, I I keep telling the folks that I work with, the
way you connect with new generations who are interested in
this is through stories and and people, stories and
characters. And I'm sure throughout our nation, there are
(13:00):
lots of stories and characters to tell, you know, about how
this country was formed and all the way from
Charlestown and South Carolina all the way to the West Coast. I
mean, this is the story of America. And, you know, as
the Ken Burns documentary talks about and out of all
this, one of our greatest ideas was America's
(13:21):
parks, the National Park Service, but how we how we
have cared for and steward the lands that
that very early on in this revolution,
the founding father says this manifest destiny and this, you
know, quest to go west from Jefferson and Louisiana
purchased all the way to the Monroe doctrine. And it's just
(13:44):
fascinating. It really is to kinda relive some of these stories
and and how this ragtag bunch of folks in
in this new world took home the most powerful nation in the world and
and won this conflict. It's it's still fascinating in a, you know, in
a kind of a sense of pride for us Americans. Yeah. It sure is.
And Phil touched on something that I think makes all the difference
(14:07):
is people connect to history through stories
and people. The swamp fox is a great
example, which, Phil, that would have been a great nickname for you. I don't know
why we didn't think of that sooner. I hear you. But
when when I think of other parks, Phil mentioned, if you're
out West, if you weren't in one of the areas that had direct
(14:28):
battles, do you have a role in this? I was thinking a little
about that, Phil. And I think if you're in
Missouri or Arizona, Oregon, telling the
story of what was going on in those places
while the revolutionary war was happening
helps people understand the whole story of our country
(14:51):
and and how we got to where we are now. So, yes, there
are unlimited stories in places like South Carolina. But I also think
there's great stories to be told elsewhere even
if it wasn't a America hadn't
reached that far yet, there still were things going on
there that tell the story that from coast to
(15:13):
coast, you start to understand what was going on at that time.
And because there were things going on in Oregon, Washington,
California Yeah. That didn't lend directly to the war but
are part of the the bigger story. And I think of
you talking about some of the the people in the stories. The
revolutionary war on its own is so big it's hard to
(15:35):
comprehend, which is probably why we hear stories
about Benedict Arnold and George Washington in
places like Boston and New York and New Jersey because
it's it's too big otherwise. But when you break it down
into stories about people, well, that's how we can
start to understand what happened in South Carolina and
(15:57):
in all these other locations. And I think that's the role
that we play as parks is we take something that now
is 250 years old, which worldwide,
that's not a very old history. Here in The United States,
that's so old, it's almost hard to comprehend because
nothing else here is that that old in our history.
(16:19):
So turning it into stories about
people, I think that's how you really make that connection. And
it's so good to hear what you're doing in South Carolina to make that
happen. You know, and you tell this one little story and it leads to
another story, and it leads to another story and another era.
And so one of the projects who we're working on is a young
(16:41):
Andrew Jackson, who is from South Carolina in an area called
the Waxhaws. So young Andrew Jackson, who's
probably 12 to 14 years old when he's in South Carolina
doing this. And, he's captured by the British and
jailed in Camden, South Carolina. And he's put in the jail in
Camden. And a British officer comes to him and and tells him
(17:03):
to shine his boots. And a young Andy Jackson
tells him in no uncertain terms, no. He will not do that.
And the the British officer pulls his sword
and slings it across Andrew Jackson's face. And
Andrew Jackson, little Andy puts his arm up to
keep the sword from hitting him. It hits his arm, and it cuts his face.
(17:26):
And, he carries that scar with him for the rest of his life.
And, you know, and it impacted how he felt about relations
with England. And then so you take that little story that happened right
down the road here, and then you talk about when we start getting a little
bit more developed in this westward expansion movement and
then Jefferson and figuring out what's over there, and
(17:48):
then the whole Lewis and Clark thing comes in. And, like, we really
don't know what's beyond those Appalachians and, you
know, what's beyond this river and what's and so you you do this
trek out west with Lewis and Clark, and then you you learn
about indigenous people and how all of a sudden this is kinda going to impact.
So it's just it continues to grow, and this snowball gets bigger and
(18:11):
bigger and bigger. And it's it comes back to, so why
did all this take place? And it's like this quest for
freedom and that we had in America because
we're kind of this group of folks that still to this day
don't like to be told what to do and have this streak of independence.
And I think it's fascinating. And as park rangers, you know, really
(18:33):
good opportunity in 2026 to build on all
the hoopla in celebration that's gonna go on about the
declaration of independence. And so what does that mean for us
here in Washington or Oregon or Kansas
or, you know, North Dakota, some of those places that you're
saying, we really didn't do, but, oh, you
(18:55):
did. And part of the reason they're fighting for that is that,
you know and you tie in all these stories. I think it's a great opportunity
for parks in general to piggyback on this
February, once in a real lifetime celebration of
how we do it. And, you know, in in South Carolina,
you know, '76, it started, but the last major battle in
(19:17):
South Carolina was in 1781. So, you
know, that's that's five years of, you know,
storytelling and programs. And so and by
the time you get to 1781, we're starting to think about, you know,
what this country is gonna look like and how we're gonna be portrayed
around the world. And and then you're starting to hear stories of
(19:39):
other places, like, you know, slowly, Tennessee,
Kentucky, crossing the river, Missouri, and then,
you know, Lewis and Clark and native peoples. And
it's a pretty complicated continent that we're living on and is,
there's two hundred and fifty years of this country being part of
that shaping of what this continent's gonna be and look like. So
(20:03):
I'm excited about it. Doing a lot of good stuff. One of the things
that that the American Battlefield Trust does is and the the
South Carolina two fiftieth, and I know a lot of other states around the country
are doing, is they're doing some, historic preservation
and, preserving some of these sites in perpetuity,
not just for this generation to celebrate, but for when they do the
(20:25):
tricentennial, you know, in in fifty years, they'll we'll
have another celebration, hopefully, of three hundred years. So it's
you know, historic preservation is a part of this
as well so that we preserve and protect some of this hallowed ground
that that we did. And maybe we can talk about that one day
about historic preservation and public lands and the importance of that
(20:47):
as well. But that's part of what we're doing here in the
in the Southeast is trying to preserve and protect some of these
places that had battles on it, people literally fought and died
for the causes that they believed in. With the growth that the
Southeast is having, you know, we need to protect these battlefield
sites or they'll be lost. And there are some sites that are
(21:09):
lost. So how do you interpret those things going forward?
So as as park people from across the country, I urge you
to look at your state and see what your state is doing for
the two hundred and fiftieth celebration and then find a
way where you fit in. Certainly, if you're in one of those
original 13 colonies, there are countless opportunities for
(21:32):
you to jump on board. But even if you're not one of those original
13 colonies, there are real opportunities for you to talk about how
this country went from what happened at Lexington Concord and in
Philadelphia from sea to shining sea. So it's
a good time to be an American and celebrate the two hundred and
fiftieth anniversary. Well, Phil, this has me certainly
(21:54):
looking forward to the 200 coming
up. If you have any questions
that, on how you can get involved in having
a two hundred and fiftieth celebration. Maybe reach out to Phil because
he's well aware of what's going on in plenty of parks.
If you know that your park or your community is doing
(22:16):
something to celebrate and you want us to know, please do reach
out. You can reach me at jody, j o d y, at park
leaders dot com. Tell us what you're planning because Phil
and I are trying to keep an eye on that, on what's going on in
parks around the country for the two hundred and fiftieth celebration. Phil,
I'm so glad you you came back. It's it's been a little while since you've
(22:38):
been here. Been busy. Been out in the swamps chasing the Swamp Fox.
Alright. Well, I'm glad you have. Thanks so much, Phil, and thank you for listening
to the park leaders show.
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