Are you a high-achieving professional pushing yourself to the brink—wondering if burnout is the cost of success?
If you're constantly chasing excellence and feeling the toll of stress, exhaustion, or diminishing returns, this episode is for you. Burnout isn’t just a setback—it might be the wake-up call that leads to a better, more fulfilling life. In this powerful conversation, licensed therapist and executive coach Scott Anderson returns to share why burnout can actually be a blessing—and how to come out stronger on the other side.
- Discover why high achievers often unknowingly drive themselves into burnout—and how to change course.
- Learn the two most common habits that silently fuel burnout and how to replace them with empowering alternatives.
- Get a practical, five-second technique to reset your nervous system and reduce stress in real time, without needing a sabbatical.
Press play now to uncover the surprising truth about burnout—and how it might just be your path to a more powerful, peaceful, and productive life.
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KEY POINTS AND TIMESTAMPS:
02:03 - Burnout as a Blessing Revisited
06:12 - How High Achievers Unknowingly Create Burnout
13:55 - The Genius Zone and Scaling Through Delegation
15:44 - A Practical First Step to Combat Burnout
21:04 - The Power of Mini Recovery Breaks
24:04 - The Role of Forgiveness in Burnout Recovery
29:13 - Letting Go of Resentment for Healing
30:15 - Final Thoughts on Burnout and Hope
˚
MEMORABLE QUOTE:
"Life beyond burnout is infinitely better than life before burnout, not only in terms of peace and happiness and enjoyment, but also in terms of achievement."
˚
VALUABLE RESOURCES:
Schedule a free call for a burnout assessment: fastfixcall.com
Mastery Seekers Tribe: https://masteryseekerstribe.com
˚
🎙️ Want to be a guest?
Message Agi on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/member/personaldevelopmentmastery
˚
Personal development, self mastery, and actionable wisdom for personal improvement and living with purpose and fulfilment.
˚
Personal development, self mastery, and actionable wisdom for personal improvement and living with purpose and fulfilment.
Insights and actionable inspiration to implement for self-mastery, living authentically, living your purpose, cultivating emotional intelligence, building confidence, and living authentically through personal mastery, healthy habits, meditation, mindset shifts, spirituality, wellness, and personal growth - empowering entrepreneurs, leaders, and seekers to embrace happiness and fulfilment.
Join our free community "Mastery Seekers Tribe".
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Agi Keramidas (00:00):
Are you a high achieving professional pushing
yourself to the brink, wonderingif burnout is the cost of
success?
Welcome to personal developmentmastery, the podcast that helps
intelligent, busy professionalsdevelop self mastery and
(00:23):
discover their calling so youcan thrive in a fulfilling,
purposeful life. I'm your host,Agi Keramidas, and this is
episode 498 by listening to thisepisode, you are going to
discover why High achieversoften unknowingly drive
(00:43):
themselves into burnout. And howto change course, you will learn
the two most common habits thatsilently fuel burnout and how to
replace them with empoweringalternatives, and you will get a
practical five second techniqueto reset your nervous system and
(01:06):
reduce stress in real time, ifyou are constantly chasing
excellence and feeling the tollof stress, exhaustion or
diminishing returns, thisepisode is for you. Before we
dive in. Remember, my fellowmastery seeker. If you want to
(01:27):
go deeper into the episode, joinus at our free community, the
mastery seekers tribe, for more,go to mastery seekerstribe.com,
now, let's get started. Today.
I'm delighted to welcome ScottAnderson back to the podcast.
Scott, you are a licenced mentalhealth therapist, executive
(01:50):
coach and the founder of DoubleDare, business coaching service.
You are also the author ofyou're not toast, and you are
passionate about helping highachieving professionals break
free from burnout and rediscoverpassion in their work and life.
Welcome back, Scott. It'swonderful to have you back.
Scott Anderson (02:14):
Oh, thank you.
It's so great to be here. It'sgreat to see you. It feels
Agi Keramidas (02:18):
familiar in a way, so that it's a very nice
feeling to begin anyconversation. I will share here,
Scott, for reference, that youfirst join us back in episode
248 that was like two and a halfyears ago, and that time flies,
(02:41):
doesn't it? Yeah, and at thattime, we explored why burnout
could be a blessing. Yes youwere saying, and you uncovered
the five mindset shifts to helpbreak that sign, right? So,
right now, if you are listeningand you want to find out more
(03:02):
about that. The link is in theepisode description. Today,
Scott, I intend to go deeperinto that conversation,
especially now that you haveyour new book launched. What I
would like to you know, startwith it's since it's been, like
(03:25):
two and a half years since ourprevious conversation about you
were saying about burnout, beena blessing. How has your
thinking, your understandingaround burnout, evolved the last
two plus years?
Scott Anderson (03:42):
That's a great question. You know, I still
contend that burnout for me, andif you can recover from it,
really is a blessing, especiallyif you're a high achievement,
ambitious, driven person.
Burnout may be. You know, theproblem is that the things that
we high achievement people havedone over time has worked. It's
(04:03):
been successful, and we becomewe kind of count on that. It's
like having a magic wand thatthat works. If I continue to do
my plan a then good things willhappen. What my experience with
burnout and the 1000s ofexecutives I've worked with, the
what happens is that the magicwand stops working, or that it
(04:27):
continues to work, but with alot of problems attached to it,
physical problems, mentalproblems, spirit relationship
problems, especially so, youknow, minus a crisis like
burnout, I would have continuedto use my old magic wand, and I
would have continued toexperience some success, but
(04:48):
also lots and lots and lots ofproblems. I would never have
considered a Plan B, because theold way was working. We become
super. Stitches, almost I can'tstop doing what I'm doing
because it's working. So I stillbelieve, and now more than ever,
that burnout is a tremendousblessing, although it's agony to
(05:11):
go through. And if there'sanyone listening to this podcast
who is experiencing burnout, myheart goes out to you, but it
really can be a blessing,because, as we discussed prior
to the prior to the interview,not only is it possible to break
through the exhaustion anddespair and overwhelm of
burnout, but it's also possible.
(05:34):
In fact, it's it's, you know,inevitable. I have found, at
least with our students, thatnot only can you break through
burnout quickly and permanently,but that life on the other side
of burnout is infinitely betterthan life before burnout. And I
would never have even looked atthat except the sort of the
(05:54):
crushing defeat of burnout inthe first place. I sort of
assumed, well, if I can recoverfrom burnout, maybe I'll live
longer and I'll be a little bithappier. I'll stay married
things like that, you know, if Isort of pull in my horns and
become less driven, lessambitious, but my life itself
would be, you know, kind ofmediocre in terms of achievement
(06:18):
and experience. But myexperience has been, and the
experience of my clients hasbeen the exact opposite. Life
Beyond burnout is infinitelybetter than life before burnout,
not only in terms of peace andhappiness and enjoyment, but
also in terms of achievement, wecan accomplish so much more. You
(06:38):
know, it's one of those thingswhere the Good is the enemy of
the best. We cling to thingsthat have worked, the magic wand
that now is producing as manyproblems as it is wishes. But we
cling to it superstitiously,until it takes something like
burnout, where we were, wherewe're almost forced to drop it.
Agi Keramidas (06:59):
It definitely and I remember we were speaking in
our previous conversation how itwould be ideal for someone to go
to the other side of the burnoutbefore experiencing the burnout.
Because, of course, when thecrisis happens, then you have to
deal with it. Yes, I would.
There is something, let's, let'stalk about some more things
(07:24):
about burnout to perhaps clarifyit also for the listener, there
is one thing I noticed that yousay that burnout is often self
created. Sure, yes. Can youexplain this to us, especially
for sure high achiever, how theycan unintentionally drive
themselves into burnout withoutrealising it
Scott Anderson (07:49):
exactly. Well, you know, it's, it's again, it
kind of goes back to the goodbeing the enemy of the best when
we are young, and especially incareer. And by definition, we
don't know as much as we knowtoday, hopefully. And so we
compensate for lack ofexperience and lack of knowledge
with sheer effort. And so we tryharder, and we care more, and we
(08:14):
have we say yes to everything, alot of us. And as a result, we
are recognised and rewarded, andit really works for a while, but
as we age and gain experienceand gain, hopefully, expertise,
the need for that dissipates,but we continue to do it anyway,
kind of out of again, I think,out of superstition and out of
(08:37):
the fact that it works or It didwork, but as we age, and
particularly as we add, let'ssay, a part, a life partner or
children or or our role in inour occupation or a profession,
grows and grows. The old way nolonger works. It doesn't scale
(08:59):
our saying yes to everything andworking harder than everybody
else and worrying more thaneveryone else while it worked.
When we were in our 20s and 30s,maybe at about 40, the wheels
start to fall off. And this isespecially true if you have any
kind of important relationshipsin your life. You know, I had a
(09:20):
client say to me once, it's asthough there is a zero sum game
where I can either succeed atwork or succeed at home, but I
have to pick one. I can't haveboth. And it's at about that
point that a lot of our clientsnotice it. But when I talk about
creating our own burnout. Andthis is, again, I think, a
(09:43):
blessing. It's controversial.
Often when I speak from stage, Istart by saying, you know,
except in rare exceptions, youare causing your own burnout.
There I said, and it's, youknow, in 90% of the cases,
that's true. What. I mean bythat, and it's very good news,
because if you are causing it,then you could do something
about it, you know. And I am notsaying, I mean, in my
(10:07):
experiences, maybe 10, tops 15%of cases I have clients that are
working in a genuinely toxicenvironment where there is a
there is a an unjust, you know,sort of a deceitful work
environment that is potentiallyracist or misogynist or
(10:30):
discriminatory or justfundamentally unfair. And if
that's the truth, then I alwaysrecommend that my clients run
away screaming. I mean, if that,if you're in a genuinely toxic
environment, there's very littlethat can be done, and you need
to get out as soon as you can.
But my experience with myclients, anyway, is that maybe
(10:52):
10 or 15% fall into thatcategory of the clients that I
work with. I'm not saying thatonly 10% of of workplaces are
toxic. But the good news is, isthat if it isn't the workplace,
if it's me, if, if I am causingmy own burnout, that's very good
news. And this is where burnoutcan be a tremendous blessing,
(11:15):
because it is that crisiswithout which very few of us
would change our ways. Becausethe Good is the enemy of the
best, and good is pretty darngood for most of us, until we
hit that, that existentialquestion, something like succeed
at home or succeed at work, pickone. You know, it takes a crisis
(11:36):
like that, I think. But again, Ithink the fact that we do cause
our own burnout is is reallygood news. And what I found is
there are basically two, twothings that that most burnouts
do, and I certainly have done,and this is sort of a kind of a
broad generalisation, but thefirst one is a perfectionism
(11:58):
that serves us when,particularly when we're younger
and have less expertise and lessexperience and simply less
knowledge. Shooting forperfection is is something that,
because we can put so many morehours into it than we can later
in life, serves us. Butperfectionism, ultimately, is
one of the biggest problems. Theother big, big problem is
(12:21):
boundaries, because most of ushave succeeded earlier in our
careers by not settingboundaries, by being willing to
work longer than anyone else orharder than anyone else, and
saying yes to any request thatcomes up. And that is a recipe
for success in the western inwestern economies to a point,
(12:45):
and this, again, is where theGood is the enemy of the best.
So for 10 years, maybe, youknow, from in our 20s and early
30s, maybe into our 40, early40s, it can work. But as our
lives become, as we begin toreceive the rewards in life, and
our lives become more complex,particularly if we're in
(13:05):
leadership roles or if we'rerunning our own businesses, this
simply won't scale. This one, Imean, on a technical business
level, it won't scale. And mostof our clients, we've found, we
go through a what's called agenius zone assessment, and what
we have found is that is thateven the most successful leaders
(13:25):
do two or three things, better,faster and cheaper than any
anyone else. But it's only twoor three things is really their
genius zone, and those are thethings that will move the needle
farthest and fastest for them,for their companies, in their
professions and so forth. Butwhen I ask our clients to do a
time audit and ask them, Howmany hours a week do you spend
(13:48):
in your genius zone, most ofthem report zero or 30 minutes,
or possibly an hour out of 4050,or 60 hours a week. So you know,
one of the things that we havefound that and so that doesn't,
doesn't scale, neither in ourlives, as individuals, as human
beings, nor in our professions.
So you know, we really have tofind a new a new way, and to try
(14:11):
to shed and delegate theactivities that others could do
better, faster and cheaper thanwe can I'm you've probably read
the book or seen Dan Sullivan'sbook, who, not how, and that's
very much what that what DanSullivan is talking about is
that we have to learn a new way.
(14:36):
And it goes though from we haveto become, we have to sort of
evolve past being a verycontrolling, micromanaging, sort
of a personality that worked inour 20s and 30s to being one
that is more discerning and in away more humble, that
understands there are reallyonly two or three things that I
(14:57):
do, that that no one else coulddo better faster. And cheaper,
and those things will move youknow, I've got a client who went
from 80 hours a week, forexample, 80 hour work week, to
now. He works two and a halfdays a week, but his business
has doubled for the last twoyears. And the reason is because
he is and he's much, muchhappier. And the reason is
(15:19):
because he's putting his energyinto only the activities that
will move the needle for hisbusiness, and he's not wasting
his time where other people do abetter job than he can.
Agi Keramidas (15:31):
Let's say someone listening. And let me bring it
to this. They find themselves.
They have not reached the crisispoint. But they, and because you
were mentioning about the toxicenvironment, it's not, they're
not in a toxic environment, butthey are, as you were saying,
(15:51):
realising that the the pace andeverything that they were doing
and they keep on doing, is not,perhaps sustainable in the long
term. And anyway, that idea ofthe burnout happening, it's
something that they have thoughtabout. So give me one immediate
first thing for someone to dowith that, and then we'll move
(16:19):
on to something different. Butlet's, let's give something
more, you know, practical rightnow,
Scott Anderson (16:27):
absolutely, and you know, I'm glad that you
mentioned that. For any of yourlisteners who want to have some
immediate kind of medicine,let's say, right now, today, I'd
encourage them to go to our sitecalled fast fix, call.com and
you can schedule a free callwith one of our counsellors or
(16:52):
consultants who can not onlyassess, give you a burnout
assessment, but also give yousome practical techniques and
what burnout breakthrough is,and what the you're not toast
book is, is very practical,fast, easy to use techniques.
You know, it's true that weshould all meditate 30 minutes
twice a day, but my clients willnot do that. You know, even with
(17:17):
a gun to their heads, they won'tdo it. And so, you know the good
news is, is that there'sclinically proven techniques
that are very quick and easy todo, and yet have are super
impactful. So as an example,what most Americans do anyway,
the the sort of common mythologywe believe in is that you work
(17:41):
50 weeks and then you take twoweeks off, and during those two
weeks off, you recover. And thatwould be, that would be fine, if
that were true. Butunfortunately, it's not true.
And that's not how human beingsrecover from stress. You know,
the way that we recover fromstress, ideally, is in the
moment when, kind of when wenotice that we are stressed,
(18:05):
because a stress cycle, thecortisol adrenaline cycle, even
of being like in a near caraccident, that cycle for your
adrenaline and cortisol to peakto the time it dissipates to
normal levels is 90 seconds. Andso you know the need to, you
know, waiting, waiting 50 weeksis not going to get it done,
(18:28):
whereas, if we notice it in realtime, the key is to allow the
cycle to run its course and tolet the the nervous energy and
let the brain chemistry run itscourse and release the tension.
So to answer your question, apractical exercise is this, one
of the things that most of us asburnout to do is that when we
notice that we're stressed oroverwhelmed, we throw ourselves
(18:50):
into work. Because there is afear that if I spend much time
looking at how exhausted or howfrustrated or how stressed out
or how anxious I am, that couldbe a death trap that could be
quicksand I'll never get out of.
And so most of us throwourselves into action. We flee
into action. And that worksuntil it doesn't, you know, and
it's what happens typically, isit just gets worse and worse.
(19:14):
The more we ignore anything, theworse it gets. So the answer is,
we prescribe multiple minivacations, five second vacations
during the day. And what werecommend is that you just check
your your body from head to toe,do a quick scan and notice where
(19:34):
in your body you may, you mayfeel stress. And this takes,
this only takes five secondsfrom the top of your head to the
bottom of your feet to justquickly scan your body and to
notice, am I feeling stress oranxiety anywhere? And typically,
with most people, they feel itbetween their neck and their
(19:54):
navel. There's a twinge or apain or something a tightness.
And all we ask people to do is,once they've noticed it, and
again, we're not looking for thesource of it. We're not trying
to do Freudian psychoanalysis oranything like that. All we're
trying to do is to scan ourbodies very quickly and notice
when we're feeling anxious,where do I feel it in my body,
once we found it, let's say inour chest, where a lot of people
(20:17):
carry it. Women carry it oftenin their throats, but or their
gut. What we do is just noticeit very briefly. Take a deep
breath in through your nose, andexhale deeply through your mouth
and imagine the door openingover the wherever you feel the
physical sensation, and simplyallow the stress to leave. Don't
(20:40):
force it to leave, just allow itto leave. We call this the R and
R technique, and it's based onsome training by by Michael
singer, who wrote the UntetheredSoul. And I give him all the
credit. But this R and Rtechnique is incredibly
effective. It takes five minutesto do. Anybody can do it. And
the idea is that if we do thisas often as we're noticed, we
(21:01):
are stressed during the day,that's really the key. And then
the beginning of my own recoveryfrom burnout, that's all I had.
Was sort of my first minidiscovery in looking through the
literature on burnout, and, youknow, in 10 days time, I noticed
a significant difference. It'snot a complete solution, but
what it does for and this is thefirst thing we give most of our
(21:23):
clients, because it gives them aglimmer of hope that there is
light at the end of the tunnel,and that there is a way through
this, and it's something that Ican actually do, versus taking a
sabbatical. We've had a numberof clients take sabbaticals and
return just as exhausted andstressed as when they left, but
these five second mini vacationsduring the day really work.
Agi Keramidas (21:48):
This is great.
Thank you. And very practicaland the way you are describing
it, I think the one other majorbenefit that comes from doing
that is that those five seconds,or even less, there is awareness
of the moment, of what ishappening, of the rather than
(22:08):
being completely absorbed by theautopilot, or, you know, the
internal dialogue, or whateveris causing the stress in the
first place. So by bringing yourattention, you know, to the
body, and realising this andtaking a breath, as simple as it
(22:28):
sounds, it's not easy to do itat that time, because it's you
need to create the awareness toactually do it when you're
stressed. But it is a fantasticpractice, and thank you for
sharing such a simple and yet soimportant.
Scott Anderson (22:50):
And it is important and it is very counter
intuitive. I mean, one of thethings I found in my own
practice and in writing the bookis that it isn't that any of
this is impossible to do. It'sjust very counterintuitive,
especially for high achievementpeople, because what, what we
have found in our lives, in ourcareers, in every other area of
(23:12):
our lives, is that we we eitheravoid problems or we solve
problems and and that worksgreat if it's, you know, for
splitting the atom or changing atire, you know, we can just we
can attack it and solve it ifit's a solvable problem. But
thoughts and emotions are notsubject to the same laws as
(23:33):
splitting the atom or changing atire, because thoughts and
emotions are don't have concretereality in the way that
splitting the atom does, orchanging a tire. And so
unfortunately, again, the magicwand that's worked so well in
every other area of our liveswill only make disturbing
(23:54):
thoughts and emotions worse. Andif we try to fix them, or if we
try to avoid them both will makethe problem worse, whereas, as
you say, just by noticing, justnotice, like a scientist would
look at a microscope slide, notto fix or avoid, but merely to
(24:16):
Notice what's actually happeningthat's incredibly and
deceptively powerful,
Agi Keramidas (24:22):
absolutely, definitely. Scott, there is one
other thing I wanted to ask youabout, and that was the
connection, shall we say,between forgiveness and self
forgiveness with burnout orrecovering from. So I would love
(24:44):
to hear your your thoughts on,on that,
Scott Anderson (24:47):
you know, I listened to, I think it might
have been your last episode wasfocused a lot on forgiveness. I
thought that was such abrilliant show and in such a
brilliant conversation. Andit's, it's absolutely.
Absolutely true. I mean,forgiveness is really the and
it's one of the last things weaddress in the burnout
(25:09):
breakthrough methodology.
Because it is, it just sounds socounterintuitive and unrelated
to burnout, but one of theclinical symptoms of burnout is
a that comes upon us very, verygradually and slowly, and yet
it's one of the hallmarks ofclinical burnout is a cynicism
about other people that canbecome a kind of a victim
(25:32):
mentality, and we begin, andit's so subtle. It's like, you
know, grass growing, but one ofthe hallmarks of burnout is
beginning to think, you know,it's them, it's my employees,
it's my investors, it's mycustomers, my family, my spouse.
They're causing the problem. Andfor, you know, self actualized
(25:57):
ambitious people, achievers,that we really cringe and
bristle at that idea. And yet,when, if anyone wants to go to
our fast fix, call.com you'lland take the assessment, you'll
see that this is one of thehallmarks of burnout. So what we
have found is that is thatforgiveness and self forgiveness
(26:17):
in particular, but forgivenessgenerally, is, is really the
bedrock of not only recoveryfrom burnout, but propelling you
beyond burnout into a life whereyou're not marginalised, you
haven't given up anything.
Indeed, you're much more capableand and there's much more
(26:39):
opportunity, but but forgivenessis really that that ground zero
of getting to the point whereeven the people that you resent
the very most, as an example,one of the things that I went
through that I and I caused mostof this myself, I sold one of
the many businesses I started inan acrimonious situation with my
(27:02):
business partners, and most ofthe acrimony I have to I now
understand, was of my owncreation. As a result of the
burnout that I was goingthrough. It was 90% of it my
fault, the acrimony. But in, youknow, we had a good buy sell
agreement, and it ended up okayfinancially, but I resented my
(27:24):
business partners, I noticed,and it was eating me alive. And,
you know, it took a lot ofreflection and a lot of work to
realise that it's me, first ofall, it's not them, and that I
really had to in order torecover from burnout, and
without the crisis of burnout, Iwould not have been able to see
(27:44):
this, and I would not have beenable to do the work. But, you
know, I've really discovered,and it's a big part of the
burnout breakthrough programme,is to categorically go through
the people that that we haveacrimonious relationships with,
or that we have resentmenttowards, and go through a
process of systematicforgiveness. And again, it's not
(28:06):
for them. It's, I hope it doesother people some good, but it's
mainly so that we can getthrough and stay out of burnout,
because that is the kind of theinsidious thread that, and it
happens so subtly and invisiblyas we get worse and worse and
burnout. But that really is thekey, is forgiveness and self
(28:31):
forgiveness, I would say, inparticular, and you know, also
to try to fix things we havebroken. I mean, you know, and
one of the things that I'vetried hard to do as particularly
when I think of the businessthat I I sold most recently, to
try to fix the relationshipsthat I had broken and and that
(28:52):
is not always possible. In somecases, it's not possible, but
the effort, the intention, tofix what I've broken, not
necessarily to seek forgiveness,but to try to fix what I've
broken. The the intent to dothat is incredibly healing, even
(29:13):
if forgiveness doesn't comebecause it sometimes it doesn't.
Sometimes we ring the bell andit cannot be Unruh. And that's
also where self forgivenesscomes that, you know, I've had
to learn that, you know, Iregret many of my actions that
occurred during burnout. I feelas though I was sort of in a
(29:39):
kind of delusional state, in away, but I recognise now that I
was wrong, and I've triedeverything I can to try to fix
what I've broken, and I've notbeen able to do that entirely,
but the the effort has made itall the difference.
Agi Keramidas (29:57):
Forgiveness, it is. A so much about ourselves
and not about even if we're nottalking about self forgiveness.
In the end, the I believe theeffect of holding, let's say
grudge or resentment or blame,the effect is never on the other
(30:17):
person. It is us who suffers.
What Buddha said that it is likeholding hot coal with the
intention of throwing it to theother person, but you are the
one that gets the other personhas no idea that you're holding
this. Yes,
Scott Anderson (30:34):
it's like drinking poison, as they say,
expecting others to die Exactly,exactly. It's insane. It's
insane. It is
Agi Keramidas (30:42):
but we do that and it is common. It's great to
realise that forgiveness, it'sabout us, about yes and
liberating and healing. As youuse the word healing, exactly
Scott, as we start wrapping thisconversation up. I want, first
(31:05):
of all, to thank you. Second, Iwant to ask you, thank you.
Where, where can the listenerconnect with you? You mentioned
it earlier, but say it again?
Scott Anderson (31:15):
Sure, yeah, if you know, if you just like some
information, and you can take aquick online burnout assessment.
I'd ask you to go to fast fixcall.com and you can also, you
know, we can give you links forthe for the new book you're not
toast, and for the burnoutbreakthrough programme. But if
(31:35):
you just go to fast fix call.comyou know what? It's a free call.
We can do an assessment for you,and we can give you some quick,
very well proven techniques thatare free and you can start using
right now. You asked me, beforewe got on the on the interview,
about my intention for thiscall, and it really is to live
(31:57):
leave people with the idea, withthe truth that there is hope and
and that's remarkably faster andeasier if counter intuitive, but
you absolutely can break throughburnout, and you can do it
quickly, and you can do itpermanently. So yeah, check out
FastFix. Call.com and we'll getyou started.
Agi Keramidas (32:20):
Excellent. And with that, Scott, what I would
like to end today's conversationwith is you know someone who has
listened to us now for the lasthalf an hour or so, share with
him or her what is your yourfinal message to someone who has
(32:42):
listened so far, Sure,
Scott Anderson (32:44):
thank you. Well again, I think it's it's hope
that you absolutely can, and ifyou follow some you know
clinically proven techniques,you absolutely will break
through burnout, and more thanthat, discover a life beyond
burnout that is immeasurablybetter. You know, the again, my
(33:07):
fear was I might be able topatch up my home life and, you
know, lower my blood pressure,but I would have to live a life
of mediocrity and boredom. Andthe opposite is true, not only
can you break through burnoutquickly and permanently, but you
can also have a life because offorgiveness and because of
things we wouldn't ordinarily dothat is immeasurably better in
(33:32):
every dimension, mind, body,spirit, than anything any
Success we might have celebratedin the past.
Agi Keramidas (33:42):
I hope you have found this episode enlightening.
If you've been resonating withthese conversations and feel
like you are at a crossroads inyour life, I offer Private one
to one coaching to help you gainclarity and step into your next
chapter with confidence. If thatsounds interesting, reach out to
(34:06):
me and let's chat and until nexttime, Stand out. Don't fit in.
Are you a high achieving professional pushing
yourself to the brink, wonderingif burnout is the cost of
success?
Welcome to personal developmentmastery, the podcast that helps
intelligent, busy professionalsdevelop self mastery and
(00:23):
discover their calling so youcan thrive in a fulfilling,
purposeful life. I'm your host,Agi Keramidas, and this is
episode 498 by listening to thisepisode, you are going to
discover why High achieversoften unknowingly drive
(00:43):
themselves into burnout. And howto change course, you will learn
the two most common habits thatsilently fuel burnout and how to
replace them with empoweringalternatives, and you will get a
practical five second techniqueto reset your nervous system and
(01:06):
reduce stress in real time, ifyou are constantly chasing
excellence and feeling the tollof stress, exhaustion or
diminishing returns, thisepisode is for you. Before we
dive in. Remember, my fellowmastery seeker. If you want to
(01:27):
go deeper into the episode, joinus at our free community, the
mastery seekers tribe, for more,go to mastery seekerstribe.com,
now, let's get started. Today.
I'm delighted to welcome ScottAnderson back to the podcast.
Scott, you are a licenced mentalhealth therapist, executive
(01:50):
coach and the founder of DoubleDare, business coaching service.
You are also the author ofyou're not toast, and you are
passionate about helping highachieving professionals break
free from burnout and rediscoverpassion in their work and life.
Welcome back, Scott. It'swonderful to have you back.
Scott Anderson (02:14):
Oh, thank you.
It's so great to be here. It'sgreat to see you. It feels
Agi Keramidas (02:18):
familiar in a way, so that it's a very nice
feeling to begin anyconversation. I will share here,
Scott, for reference, that youfirst join us back in episode
248 that was like two and a halfyears ago, and that time flies,
(02:41):
doesn't it? Yeah, and at thattime, we explored why burnout
could be a blessing. Yes youwere saying, and you uncovered
the five mindset shifts to helpbreak that sign, right? So,
right now, if you are listeningand you want to find out more
(03:02):
about that. The link is in theepisode description. Today,
Scott, I intend to go deeperinto that conversation,
especially now that you haveyour new book launched. What I
would like to you know, startwith it's since it's been, like
(03:25):
two and a half years since ourprevious conversation about you
were saying about burnout, beena blessing. How has your
thinking, your understandingaround burnout, evolved the last
two plus years?
Scott Anderson (03:42):
That's a great question. You know, I still
contend that burnout for me, andif you can recover from it,
really is a blessing, especiallyif you're a high achievement,
ambitious, driven person.
Burnout may be. You know, theproblem is that the things that
we high achievement people havedone over time has worked. It's
(04:03):
been successful, and we becomewe kind of count on that. It's
like having a magic wand thatthat works. If I continue to do
my plan a then good things willhappen. What my experience with
burnout and the 1000s ofexecutives I've worked with, the
what happens is that the magicwand stops working, or that it
(04:27):
continues to work, but with alot of problems attached to it,
physical problems, mentalproblems, spirit relationship
problems, especially so, youknow, minus a crisis like
burnout, I would have continuedto use my old magic wand, and I
would have continued toexperience some success, but
(04:48):
also lots and lots and lots ofproblems. I would never have
considered a Plan B, because theold way was working. We become
super. Stitches, almost I can'tstop doing what I'm doing
because it's working. So I stillbelieve, and now more than ever,
that burnout is a tremendousblessing, although it's agony to
(05:11):
go through. And if there'sanyone listening to this podcast
who is experiencing burnout, myheart goes out to you, but it
really can be a blessing,because, as we discussed prior
to the prior to the interview,not only is it possible to break
through the exhaustion anddespair and overwhelm of
burnout, but it's also possible.
(05:34):
In fact, it's it's, you know,inevitable. I have found, at
least with our students, thatnot only can you break through
burnout quickly and permanently,but that life on the other side
of burnout is infinitely betterthan life before burnout. And I
would never have even looked atthat except the sort of the
(05:54):
crushing defeat of burnout inthe first place. I sort of
assumed, well, if I can recoverfrom burnout, maybe I'll live
longer and I'll be a little bithappier. I'll stay married
things like that, you know, if Isort of pull in my horns and
become less driven, lessambitious, but my life itself
would be, you know, kind ofmediocre in terms of achievement
(06:18):
and experience. But myexperience has been, and the
experience of my clients hasbeen the exact opposite. Life
Beyond burnout is infinitelybetter than life before burnout,
not only in terms of peace andhappiness and enjoyment, but
also in terms of achievement, wecan accomplish so much more. You
(06:38):
know, it's one of those thingswhere the Good is the enemy of
the best. We cling to thingsthat have worked, the magic wand
that now is producing as manyproblems as it is wishes. But we
cling to it superstitiously,until it takes something like
burnout, where we were, wherewe're almost forced to drop it.
Agi Keramidas (06:59):
It definitely and I remember we were speaking in
our previous conversation how itwould be ideal for someone to go
to the other side of the burnoutbefore experiencing the burnout.
Because, of course, when thecrisis happens, then you have to
deal with it. Yes, I would.
There is something, let's, let'stalk about some more things
(07:24):
about burnout to perhaps clarifyit also for the listener, there
is one thing I noticed that yousay that burnout is often self
created. Sure, yes. Can youexplain this to us, especially
for sure high achiever, how theycan unintentionally drive
themselves into burnout withoutrealising it
Scott Anderson (07:49):
exactly. Well, you know, it's, it's again, it
kind of goes back to the goodbeing the enemy of the best when
we are young, and especially incareer. And by definition, we
don't know as much as we knowtoday, hopefully. And so we
compensate for lack ofexperience and lack of knowledge
with sheer effort. And so we tryharder, and we care more, and we
(08:14):
have we say yes to everything, alot of us. And as a result, we
are recognised and rewarded, andit really works for a while, but
as we age and gain experienceand gain, hopefully, expertise,
the need for that dissipates,but we continue to do it anyway,
kind of out of again, I think,out of superstition and out of
(08:37):
the fact that it works or It didwork, but as we age, and
particularly as we add, let'ssay, a part, a life partner or
children or or our role in inour occupation or a profession,
grows and grows. The old way nolonger works. It doesn't scale
(08:59):
our saying yes to everything andworking harder than everybody
else and worrying more thaneveryone else while it worked.
When we were in our 20s and 30s,maybe at about 40, the wheels
start to fall off. And this isespecially true if you have any
kind of important relationshipsin your life. You know, I had a
(09:20):
client say to me once, it's asthough there is a zero sum game
where I can either succeed atwork or succeed at home, but I
have to pick one. I can't haveboth. And it's at about that
point that a lot of our clientsnotice it. But when I talk about
creating our own burnout. Andthis is, again, I think, a
(09:43):
blessing. It's controversial.
Often when I speak from stage, Istart by saying, you know,
except in rare exceptions, youare causing your own burnout.
There I said, and it's, youknow, in 90% of the cases,
that's true. What. I mean bythat, and it's very good news,
because if you are causing it,then you could do something
about it, you know. And I am notsaying, I mean, in my
(10:07):
experiences, maybe 10, tops 15%of cases I have clients that are
working in a genuinely toxicenvironment where there is a
there is a an unjust, you know,sort of a deceitful work
environment that is potentiallyracist or misogynist or
(10:30):
discriminatory or justfundamentally unfair. And if
that's the truth, then I alwaysrecommend that my clients run
away screaming. I mean, if that,if you're in a genuinely toxic
environment, there's very littlethat can be done, and you need
to get out as soon as you can.
But my experience with myclients, anyway, is that maybe
(10:52):
10 or 15% fall into thatcategory of the clients that I
work with. I'm not saying thatonly 10% of of workplaces are
toxic. But the good news is, isthat if it isn't the workplace,
if it's me, if, if I am causingmy own burnout, that's very good
news. And this is where burnoutcan be a tremendous blessing,
(11:15):
because it is that crisiswithout which very few of us
would change our ways. Becausethe Good is the enemy of the
best, and good is pretty darngood for most of us, until we
hit that, that existentialquestion, something like succeed
at home or succeed at work, pickone. You know, it takes a crisis
(11:36):
like that, I think. But again, Ithink the fact that we do cause
our own burnout is is reallygood news. And what I found is
there are basically two, twothings that that most burnouts
do, and I certainly have done,and this is sort of a kind of a
broad generalisation, but thefirst one is a perfectionism
(11:58):
that serves us when,particularly when we're younger
and have less expertise and lessexperience and simply less
knowledge. Shooting forperfection is is something that,
because we can put so many morehours into it than we can later
in life, serves us. Butperfectionism, ultimately, is
one of the biggest problems. Theother big, big problem is
(12:21):
boundaries, because most of ushave succeeded earlier in our
careers by not settingboundaries, by being willing to
work longer than anyone else orharder than anyone else, and
saying yes to any request thatcomes up. And that is a recipe
for success in the western inwestern economies to a point,
(12:45):
and this, again, is where theGood is the enemy of the best.
So for 10 years, maybe, youknow, from in our 20s and early
30s, maybe into our 40, early40s, it can work. But as our
lives become, as we begin toreceive the rewards in life, and
our lives become more complex,particularly if we're in
(13:05):
leadership roles or if we'rerunning our own businesses, this
simply won't scale. This one, Imean, on a technical business
level, it won't scale. And mostof our clients, we've found, we
go through a what's called agenius zone assessment, and what
we have found is that is thateven the most successful leaders
(13:25):
do two or three things, better,faster and cheaper than any
anyone else. But it's only twoor three things is really their
genius zone, and those are thethings that will move the needle
farthest and fastest for them,for their companies, in their
professions and so forth. Butwhen I ask our clients to do a
time audit and ask them, Howmany hours a week do you spend
(13:48):
in your genius zone, most ofthem report zero or 30 minutes,
or possibly an hour out of 4050,or 60 hours a week. So you know,
one of the things that we havefound that and so that doesn't,
doesn't scale, neither in ourlives, as individuals, as human
beings, nor in our professions.
So you know, we really have tofind a new a new way, and to try
(14:11):
to shed and delegate theactivities that others could do
better, faster and cheaper thanwe can I'm you've probably read
the book or seen Dan Sullivan'sbook, who, not how, and that's
very much what that what DanSullivan is talking about is
that we have to learn a new way.
(14:36):
And it goes though from we haveto become, we have to sort of
evolve past being a verycontrolling, micromanaging, sort
of a personality that worked inour 20s and 30s to being one
that is more discerning and in away more humble, that
understands there are reallyonly two or three things that I
(14:57):
do, that that no one else coulddo better faster. And cheaper,
and those things will move youknow, I've got a client who went
from 80 hours a week, forexample, 80 hour work week, to
now. He works two and a halfdays a week, but his business
has doubled for the last twoyears. And the reason is because
he is and he's much, muchhappier. And the reason is
(15:19):
because he's putting his energyinto only the activities that
will move the needle for hisbusiness, and he's not wasting
his time where other people do abetter job than he can.
Agi Keramidas (15:31):
Let's say someone listening. And let me bring it
to this. They find themselves.
They have not reached the crisispoint. But they, and because you
were mentioning about the toxicenvironment, it's not, they're
not in a toxic environment, butthey are, as you were saying,
(15:51):
realising that the the pace andeverything that they were doing
and they keep on doing, is not,perhaps sustainable in the long
term. And anyway, that idea ofthe burnout happening, it's
something that they have thoughtabout. So give me one immediate
first thing for someone to dowith that, and then we'll move
(16:19):
on to something different. Butlet's, let's give something
more, you know, practical rightnow,
Scott Anderson (16:27):
absolutely, and you know, I'm glad that you
mentioned that. For any of yourlisteners who want to have some
immediate kind of medicine,let's say, right now, today, I'd
encourage them to go to our sitecalled fast fix, call.com and
you can schedule a free callwith one of our counsellors or
(16:52):
consultants who can not onlyassess, give you a burnout
assessment, but also give yousome practical techniques and
what burnout breakthrough is,and what the you're not toast
book is, is very practical,fast, easy to use techniques.
You know, it's true that weshould all meditate 30 minutes
twice a day, but my clients willnot do that. You know, even with
(17:17):
a gun to their heads, they won'tdo it. And so, you know the good
news is, is that there'sclinically proven techniques
that are very quick and easy todo, and yet have are super
impactful. So as an example,what most Americans do anyway,
the the sort of common mythologywe believe in is that you work
(17:41):
50 weeks and then you take twoweeks off, and during those two
weeks off, you recover. And thatwould be, that would be fine, if
that were true. Butunfortunately, it's not true.
And that's not how human beingsrecover from stress. You know,
the way that we recover fromstress, ideally, is in the
moment when, kind of when wenotice that we are stressed,
(18:05):
because a stress cycle, thecortisol adrenaline cycle, even
of being like in a near caraccident, that cycle for your
adrenaline and cortisol to peakto the time it dissipates to
normal levels is 90 seconds. Andso you know the need to, you
know, waiting, waiting 50 weeksis not going to get it done,
(18:28):
whereas, if we notice it in realtime, the key is to allow the
cycle to run its course and tolet the the nervous energy and
let the brain chemistry run itscourse and release the tension.
So to answer your question, apractical exercise is this, one
of the things that most of us asburnout to do is that when we
notice that we're stressed oroverwhelmed, we throw ourselves
(18:50):
into work. Because there is afear that if I spend much time
looking at how exhausted or howfrustrated or how stressed out
or how anxious I am, that couldbe a death trap that could be
quicksand I'll never get out of.
And so most of us throwourselves into action. We flee
into action. And that worksuntil it doesn't, you know, and
it's what happens typically, isit just gets worse and worse.
(19:14):
The more we ignore anything, theworse it gets. So the answer is,
we prescribe multiple minivacations, five second vacations
during the day. And what werecommend is that you just check
your your body from head to toe,do a quick scan and notice where
(19:34):
in your body you may, you mayfeel stress. And this takes,
this only takes five secondsfrom the top of your head to the
bottom of your feet to justquickly scan your body and to
notice, am I feeling stress oranxiety anywhere? And typically,
with most people, they feel itbetween their neck and their
(19:54):
navel. There's a twinge or apain or something a tightness.
And all we ask people to do is,once they've noticed it, and
again, we're not looking for thesource of it. We're not trying
to do Freudian psychoanalysis oranything like that. All we're
trying to do is to scan ourbodies very quickly and notice
when we're feeling anxious,where do I feel it in my body,
once we found it, let's say inour chest, where a lot of people
(20:17):
carry it. Women carry it oftenin their throats, but or their
gut. What we do is just noticeit very briefly. Take a deep
breath in through your nose, andexhale deeply through your mouth
and imagine the door openingover the wherever you feel the
physical sensation, and simplyallow the stress to leave. Don't
(20:40):
force it to leave, just allow itto leave. We call this the R and
R technique, and it's based onsome training by by Michael
singer, who wrote the UntetheredSoul. And I give him all the
credit. But this R and Rtechnique is incredibly
effective. It takes five minutesto do. Anybody can do it. And
the idea is that if we do thisas often as we're noticed, we
(21:01):
are stressed during the day,that's really the key. And then
the beginning of my own recoveryfrom burnout, that's all I had.
Was sort of my first minidiscovery in looking through the
literature on burnout, and, youknow, in 10 days time, I noticed
a significant difference. It'snot a complete solution, but
what it does for and this is thefirst thing we give most of our
(21:23):
clients, because it gives them aglimmer of hope that there is
light at the end of the tunnel,and that there is a way through
this, and it's something that Ican actually do, versus taking a
sabbatical. We've had a numberof clients take sabbaticals and
return just as exhausted andstressed as when they left, but
these five second mini vacationsduring the day really work.
Agi Keramidas (21:48):
This is great.
Thank you. And very practicaland the way you are describing
it, I think the one other majorbenefit that comes from doing
that is that those five seconds,or even less, there is awareness
of the moment, of what ishappening, of the rather than
(22:08):
being completely absorbed by theautopilot, or, you know, the
internal dialogue, or whateveris causing the stress in the
first place. So by bringing yourattention, you know, to the
body, and realising this andtaking a breath, as simple as it
(22:28):
sounds, it's not easy to do itat that time, because it's you
need to create the awareness toactually do it when you're
stressed. But it is a fantasticpractice, and thank you for
sharing such a simple and yet soimportant.
Scott Anderson (22:50):
And it is important and it is very counter
intuitive. I mean, one of thethings I found in my own
practice and in writing the bookis that it isn't that any of
this is impossible to do. It'sjust very counterintuitive,
especially for high achievementpeople, because what, what we
have found in our lives, in ourcareers, in every other area of
(23:12):
our lives, is that we we eitheravoid problems or we solve
problems and and that worksgreat if it's, you know, for
splitting the atom or changing atire, you know, we can just we
can attack it and solve it ifit's a solvable problem. But
thoughts and emotions are notsubject to the same laws as
(23:33):
splitting the atom or changing atire, because thoughts and
emotions are don't have concretereality in the way that
splitting the atom does, orchanging a tire. And so
unfortunately, again, the magicwand that's worked so well in
every other area of our liveswill only make disturbing
(23:54):
thoughts and emotions worse. Andif we try to fix them, or if we
try to avoid them both will makethe problem worse, whereas, as
you say, just by noticing, justnotice, like a scientist would
look at a microscope slide, notto fix or avoid, but merely to
(24:16):
Notice what's actually happeningthat's incredibly and
deceptively powerful,
Agi Keramidas (24:22):
absolutely, definitely. Scott, there is one
other thing I wanted to ask youabout, and that was the
connection, shall we say,between forgiveness and self
forgiveness with burnout orrecovering from. So I would love
(24:44):
to hear your your thoughts on,on that,
Scott Anderson (24:47):
you know, I listened to, I think it might
have been your last episode wasfocused a lot on forgiveness. I
thought that was such abrilliant show and in such a
brilliant conversation. Andit's, it's absolutely.
Absolutely true. I mean,forgiveness is really the and
it's one of the last things weaddress in the burnout
(25:09):
breakthrough methodology.
Because it is, it just sounds socounterintuitive and unrelated
to burnout, but one of theclinical symptoms of burnout is
a that comes upon us very, verygradually and slowly, and yet
it's one of the hallmarks ofclinical burnout is a cynicism
about other people that canbecome a kind of a victim
(25:32):
mentality, and we begin, andit's so subtle. It's like, you
know, grass growing, but one ofthe hallmarks of burnout is
beginning to think, you know,it's them, it's my employees,
it's my investors, it's mycustomers, my family, my spouse.
They're causing the problem. Andfor, you know, self actualized
(25:57):
ambitious people, achievers,that we really cringe and
bristle at that idea. And yet,when, if anyone wants to go to
our fast fix, call.com you'lland take the assessment, you'll
see that this is one of thehallmarks of burnout. So what we
have found is that is thatforgiveness and self forgiveness
(26:17):
in particular, but forgivenessgenerally, is, is really the
bedrock of not only recoveryfrom burnout, but propelling you
beyond burnout into a life whereyou're not marginalised, you
haven't given up anything.
Indeed, you're much more capableand and there's much more
(26:39):
opportunity, but but forgivenessis really that that ground zero
of getting to the point whereeven the people that you resent
the very most, as an example,one of the things that I went
through that I and I caused mostof this myself, I sold one of
the many businesses I started inan acrimonious situation with my
(27:02):
business partners, and most ofthe acrimony I have to I now
understand, was of my owncreation. As a result of the
burnout that I was goingthrough. It was 90% of it my
fault, the acrimony. But in, youknow, we had a good buy sell
agreement, and it ended up okayfinancially, but I resented my
(27:24):
business partners, I noticed,and it was eating me alive. And,
you know, it took a lot ofreflection and a lot of work to
realise that it's me, first ofall, it's not them, and that I
really had to in order torecover from burnout, and
without the crisis of burnout, Iwould not have been able to see
(27:44):
this, and I would not have beenable to do the work. But, you
know, I've really discovered,and it's a big part of the
burnout breakthrough programme,is to categorically go through
the people that that we haveacrimonious relationships with,
or that we have resentmenttowards, and go through a
process of systematicforgiveness. And again, it's not
(28:06):
for them. It's, I hope it doesother people some good, but it's
mainly so that we can getthrough and stay out of burnout,
because that is the kind of theinsidious thread that, and it
happens so subtly and invisiblyas we get worse and worse and
burnout. But that really is thekey, is forgiveness and self
(28:31):
forgiveness, I would say, inparticular, and you know, also
to try to fix things we havebroken. I mean, you know, and
one of the things that I'vetried hard to do as particularly
when I think of the businessthat I I sold most recently, to
try to fix the relationshipsthat I had broken and and that
(28:52):
is not always possible. In somecases, it's not possible, but
the effort, the intention, tofix what I've broken, not
necessarily to seek forgiveness,but to try to fix what I've
broken. The the intent to dothat is incredibly healing, even
(29:13):
if forgiveness doesn't comebecause it sometimes it doesn't.
Sometimes we ring the bell andit cannot be Unruh. And that's
also where self forgivenesscomes that, you know, I've had
to learn that, you know, Iregret many of my actions that
occurred during burnout. I feelas though I was sort of in a
(29:39):
kind of delusional state, in away, but I recognise now that I
was wrong, and I've triedeverything I can to try to fix
what I've broken, and I've notbeen able to do that entirely,
but the the effort has made itall the difference.
Agi Keramidas (29:57):
Forgiveness, it is. A so much about ourselves
and not about even if we're nottalking about self forgiveness.
In the end, the I believe theeffect of holding, let's say
grudge or resentment or blame,the effect is never on the other
(30:17):
person. It is us who suffers.
What Buddha said that it is likeholding hot coal with the
intention of throwing it to theother person, but you are the
one that gets the other personhas no idea that you're holding
this. Yes,
Scott Anderson (30:34):
it's like drinking poison, as they say,
expecting others to die Exactly,exactly. It's insane. It's
insane. It is
Agi Keramidas (30:42):
but we do that and it is common. It's great to
realise that forgiveness, it'sabout us, about yes and
liberating and healing. As youuse the word healing, exactly
Scott, as we start wrapping thisconversation up. I want, first
(31:05):
of all, to thank you. Second, Iwant to ask you, thank you.
Where, where can the listenerconnect with you? You mentioned
it earlier, but say it again?
Scott Anderson (31:15):
Sure, yeah, if you know, if you just like some
information, and you can take aquick online burnout assessment.
I'd ask you to go to fast fixcall.com and you can also, you
know, we can give you links forthe for the new book you're not
toast, and for the burnoutbreakthrough programme. But if
(31:35):
you just go to fast fix call.comyou know what? It's a free call.
We can do an assessment for you,and we can give you some quick,
very well proven techniques thatare free and you can start using
right now. You asked me, beforewe got on the on the interview,
about my intention for thiscall, and it really is to live
(31:57):
leave people with the idea, withthe truth that there is hope and
and that's remarkably faster andeasier if counter intuitive, but
you absolutely can break throughburnout, and you can do it
quickly, and you can do itpermanently. So yeah, check out
FastFix. Call.com and we'll getyou started.
Agi Keramidas (32:20):
Excellent. And with that, Scott, what I would
like to end today's conversationwith is you know someone who has
listened to us now for the lasthalf an hour or so, share with
him or her what is your yourfinal message to someone who has
(32:42):
listened so far, Sure,
Scott Anderson (32:44):
thank you. Well again, I think it's it's hope
that you absolutely can, and ifyou follow some you know
clinically proven techniques,you absolutely will break
through burnout, and more thanthat, discover a life beyond
burnout that is immeasurablybetter. You know, the again, my
(33:07):
fear was I might be able topatch up my home life and, you
know, lower my blood pressure,but I would have to live a life
of mediocrity and boredom. Andthe opposite is true, not only
can you break through burnoutquickly and permanently, but you
can also have a life because offorgiveness and because of
things we wouldn't ordinarily dothat is immeasurably better in
(33:32):
every dimension, mind, body,spirit, than anything any
Success we might have celebratedin the past.
Agi Keramidas (33:42):
I hope you have found this episode enlightening.
If you've been resonating withthese conversations and feel
like you are at a crossroads inyour life, I offer Private one
to one coaching to help you gainclarity and step into your next
chapter with confidence. If thatsounds interesting, reach out to
(34:06):
me and let's chat and until nexttime, Stand out. Don't fit in.
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