Episode Transcript
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Agi Keramidas (00:00):
What if the
clarity you're seeking isn't out
there, but already within you,waiting for you to listen?
Welcome to personal developmentmastery, the podcast that helps
intelligent, busy professionalsdevelop self mastery and gain
(00:20):
clarity so you can thrive in afulfilling, purposeful life. I'm
your host, Agi Keramidas, andthis is episode 516 if you are
looking to manage stress moreeffectively and boost your daily
energy, this conversation withbreathwork expert Tim Van der
(00:42):
Vliet explores how breathworkand cold exposure can become
simple powerful tools for longterm transformation. By
listening today, you are goingto discover three powerful ways
to use breath work for immediatecalm, daily resilience and deep
(01:03):
transformation, and you willlearn how just five minutes a
day can radically improve yourlong term health, reduce stress
and even boost longevity. If youare feeling overwhelmed by daily
stress or searching for apractical wellness routine that
(01:25):
fits into a busy life, then thisepisode is for you before we
dive in. If what you hearresonates with you and you're
curious to go deeper inbreathwork not just for
yourself, but maybe even toguide others. Tim runs a
breathwork instructor programme.
It's rooted in simplicity,safety and science, and it is
(01:49):
for anyone who wants to build aneffective breathwork practice or
even make it part of theirprofessional path, you will find
the link in the show notes. Nowlet's get started.
(02:13):
Today. I am thrilled to welcomeTim Van der Vliet back to the
show Tim, our first conversationwas three years ago, and that
was episode 208 where weexplored breathwork as a key to
happiness and resilience. Andyou know, today, I will only
give a very, very briefintroduction of you to the
(02:36):
listener, just for reference,and I will only say that you are
a breathwork and cold exposurespecialist, and you are
passionate about teaching othershow to harness the power of this
breath and the power of cold, ofthe cold, to unlock incredible
(02:57):
energy and health in them. SoTim, welcome back to the show.
It's it's a real pleasure tohave you back.
Tim van der Vliet (03:05):
Thank you,
Agi, it's a real pleasure to be
here.
Agi Keramidas (03:09):
It's been three
years, as I said, but I still
remember this conversation, andas I was telling you earlier,
before we started recording, Istill have out of that
conversation, I have picked oneroutine that I have been
following almost every day forover three years now, so
amazing, and I think that is forme. And tell me if you agree,
(03:31):
personal development consists ofthese small actions that you
repeat over and over again, andyou know, they beat
incrementally what we what wedo, how we grow, how we live. So
I don't know if that's how yousee it
Tim van der Vliet (03:46):
exactly. And
I love mathematics. I used to be
a stock market trader, and Istill have a love for
mathematics. And it's a simple,you know, mathematical equation
that if you grow point 1% everyday, which is like almost
nothing, right? Then you grow50% in a year and in five years
(04:08):
time, 600% so that's what I youknow, like breath work can be,
can be very difficult, and Imake it very applicable. So if
you would do just five minutesof breath work every morning,
and you stick to five minutes,which is so little that there's
no reason not to do it, then youwill see immense growth in the
(04:31):
long term.
Agi Keramidas (04:32):
That's great. And
today, breath work, since you
mentioned it, will be definitelyour main topic of conversation.
And there are some very specificand particular elements and
benefits of it which I want todiscuss. And actually, let's
start with with that straightaway. And I will ask you
(04:53):
something more of a practicalnature, rather than going into
the theory of you know, how. Howbreath retention affects our
brain. So the practical questionin this high stress world that
many of us live and probably thelistener also is, how can we use
(05:16):
breath work to calm the nervoussystem, but on demand when you
know the stress really hits usand we need to deal with it,
maybe it can be in workenvironment. Usually it's like
that, but not necessarily. Sohow can we use breathwork in
such a situation?
Tim van der Vliet (05:38):
So let me,
let me start with explaining how
you can use breath work. Andthis what you're asking is the
number one. So in three ways.
Number one is to calm downimmediately at work in the car,
listening to somebody and youfeel you want to cut in, you
know, things like that, likecalm down at commands. Number
two is to have some form ofpractice, I'd say minimum of
(06:00):
five minutes, but it can belonger. You know, some
techniques are proposing 20minutes or 40 minutes, but like
five minutes of breathingexercises every day. And then
number three are, like longersessions. I have a lot of like,
American clients, and over zoom,I guide them through 45 minutes
of breath work. Now, number oneis instant stress relief. I call
(06:24):
it crisis management. You know,I need to calm down. Now, what
do I do? Number two is to havesome form of practice that
creates more breath awareness,more air available through the
air and being more calmgenerally. And number three is
like really having stacking, astacking effect, like, if you do
(06:45):
a longer breath work sessionwith me, it is between 24 and 70
hour. 72 hours, you feeldifferent. So these are the
three ways you can use breathwork in general, and mostly when
we see breath work. You know, onInstagram, it's all about these
longer sessions. And my, my, mytwo cents in is, if you do five
(07:06):
minutes of breath work in themorning and you practice this
every day for a few years, youhave more change than going to a
longer session once a month.
Now, let's, let's go into intocalming down at command. There's
two techniques that I like toshare, and this is like an
example of where breathworkdoesn't have to take very long.
(07:30):
So number one is to get over apanic attack. I've as you know,
and you've been there too, butI've been putting people in ice
bath for about 10 years. So Ithink the count is at 10,000
people. And I've seen a lot ofpeople panic in that ice bath.
And to get over a panic attackis to simply breathe in deep, to
(07:54):
hold for two seconds and thenbreathe out twice as long. We're
going to practice in a bit oftime. Why this is important is,
for example, in the UK, I sawthis statistic that 80% of the
first aid rides are panicrelated, and with just using
(08:15):
this technique, they could betreated at home, and we could
save 80% of the rides to thehospital, because it can be
treated at home. Can you imaginejust how a simple like, every
breath takes like 15 secondsabout so if you do four times,
it's a one minute breathingexercise. Now let's say we're in
(08:41):
a very stressful moment andwe're hyperventilating, so
you're breathing high in thechest and focusing on breathing
in, while you actually should befocusing on breathing out. And
this is what you change. Solet's mimic this. I'm in a high
I keep on breathing then breathein and hold I'm deliberately
(09:05):
breathing in through the mouthnow, because this is what
happens when you arehyperventilating. Then breathe
out, then breathe in for aboutfour counts through the nose.
Here we go. Hold one, twobreathe out for eight.
(09:30):
Let's do two more, indeed, holdbreathe out more, slower one
last time slower in hold andbreathe out longer and.
(10:01):
How do you feel?
Agi Keramidas (10:05):
The effect is
instant. Every every series of
breath works. I was even more,you know, I was not in any
stressful environment earlieron, but I do feel the effect of
in my body, also not only in mymind, but also in my body, the
(10:25):
calmness, or this, yeah, it's, Ithink that's the best way to
describe it. There is acalmness. And thank you for
sharing this. It is powerful.
When you were saying about thethree different, you know, types
or kinds that breath work can,could be used, and this is
(10:47):
definitely the one that you can,I suppose, do also as a
practice, but I think it haseven more value when you do it
in that moment. My My comment onthis is that in order to from
the stressful situation, fromthe stimulus that whatever it is
happening that is causing thatpanic inside you to come up to
(11:09):
you actually starting to do thispractice, because once you start
doing it, will work. There isthat moment of self awareness
and of being able to actuallydirect yourself to do the the
breathing. So I just wanted toshare that. I don't know if you
(11:31):
want to add anything to this.
Tim van der Vliet (11:35):
Well, this is
what you're talking about, being
aware of your breath through theday, and this is what you get
when you do five minutes ofbreath work. And like my
signature breathing techniquesare TT five or simplified tummo,
but they're very similar. Solet's talk about TT five. One
(11:59):
round takes one minute, it'sbasically breathing five times
in and out, nose, in, mouth,out. Breath number six, you
breathe in and you hold for 10seconds, and then you breathe
out slowly. So we can do tworounds, if, if, if you want to,
just to show you what ishappening, because with the
(12:21):
first technique, four to eight,we calm down and command so this
is what you can use in the carwhen you're about to explode,
opening your email box, having astressful conversation. Nobody
has to see this. You know youcan do this without talking to a
person. Now, what we do when wewhen we have a practice, we
(12:43):
breathe five times deep, in andout, first, slightly activating
adrenaline release, and thenafterwards, you're actually
calmer than before. And this ismuch like running. And when you
go for a run, your heartbeatgoes up. But this is not a
chronic state. It's a temporarystate, and after running, your
(13:03):
heartbeat will be lower. So thatis the same by taking five deep
breath and then breathing in andholding for 10 seconds and
breathing out slowly. So this isone round takes one minute. So
if we do two rounds, it wouldtake two minutes, and then
afterwards you you can testyourself by seeing how slow you
(13:25):
can breathe, but likely you feelmuch more composed. What, I
think, what you meant to saybefore was you're more in the
body. It's like you're less inthe hat. Get out of the hat and
be in the body. You know, likebecome more body aware, and when
we get to think a little bitless, we kind to have the
tendency to have more positivethoughts. So let's do two rounds
(13:51):
of this, if you're okay withthat. Now, let's do it now,
first the safety measures,because with the podcast, people
may be listening in the car,taking deep breath and holding
on the breath in can make youdizzy when you're driving a car
on the highway. This can bedangerous, simply because you
(14:13):
may have the sensation of losingit for a moment. So you cannot
join if you're driving a car,and not when you're lying in the
bathtub for the same reason,right? So let's do two rounds
just to see how this works.
Because I love, you know, I'm avery busy person. I'm travelling
all over the world. I have fivekids, so I love these short
(14:34):
breathwork snippets. This iswhat what I'm doing every
morning. I do five of theserounds, so five minutes, and
then I do that 10 times. Sobefore we went on this this
meeting, I was a little bitearly, just to check my
connection. I'm doing fiverounds of dt, five, you know. So
I do that a lot, and this iswhat creates more breath
(14:55):
awareness by doing some practiceevery morning. Mm. Breath, I
would say, before you eat orleave the house. So take one
really slow breath, nose inmouth out, just to prepare again
making your breath out longerthan your breath in. Let's
(15:17):
breathe, nose in, mouth outabout 80% in and out. Here we
go. You extra deep. Breathe outeverything. Breathe in and hold.
(16:04):
Hold it here. Shoulders are niceand low. 10 seconds, another
five and breathe out slowly, abit dizzy as normal and rounds
to five deep breaths youextra deep, everything out and
(16:50):
breathe in and hold and Again,10 seconds,
(17:13):
and breathe out everything,tingly, sensations, normal, a
bit dizzy or lightheaded, allnormal, and take the slowest
breath of your life. Youand make your breath out even
(17:44):
slower. It'sso when you're in the back of
the taxi before you're about toget your phone out and start
(18:09):
scrolling social media to fiveor 10 rounds, start with two,
extend to five maybe 10 rounds.
No more waiting time.
Agi Keramidas (18:22):
Tim tell us what,
what actually happened in the
body during this because, youknow the effect. You asked me
earlier, how do I feel? And theeffect is similar, even deeper
now, but what is happeninginternally?
Tim van der Vliet (18:36):
Yeah, so my
promise was to give your energy
yet calm you down at the samemoment, right? So when we
breathe deeper and faster thanwe need to, we activate our
sympathetic nervous system. NowI know that sympathetic nervous
system is also you know whereour stress is, and if you're too
(19:01):
stressed at a certain moment,you will get a burn out. You
know, we all know this, yet, ifyou temporarily increase the
pace of breathing and theintensity of breathing so you
breathe deeper than you need to,and faster than you need to
(19:21):
which doesn't have to beextreme. Let me put emphasis on
that. It doesn't have to beextreme, but we activate our
sympathetic nervous system so werelease a little bit of
adrenaline, noradrenaline andthings like that. What happens
on the breath hold, and when webreathe out slower, we activate
(19:44):
the parasympathetic. So youcould see this as a very small
interval training, like withrunning, sprinting, walking,
sprinting, walking, increasingyour running stamina, building
your running muscles and. Makingyou able to run faster and
longer. Right? What happens withthis is that after two or five
(20:09):
rounds of TT five, we have amuch slower pace of breathing,
which is enhancing our abilityto calm down. So I think I said
this last podcast that the keyto happiness in two words is to
slow down your breathing, right?
Because stress doesn't make ushappy, unwanted stress, and if
we are able to slow down ourbreathing, that is equaling your
(20:34):
stress management. So yourability to slow down your
breathing equals your ability tomanage stress, but by taking a
few deeper breaths and add abreath hold, we are even calmer
than we would just do with, forexample, four to eight, or that
first group of breathingexercise where you Calm down
(20:54):
immediately. So the idea thatthe sympathetic nervous system
is bad is not true. You know, wejust if we put stress under
control on our own body, forexample, by doing sports, for
example, by ending your showercold doing cold exposure, or
(21:14):
using deep breathing breath holdtechniques, we get to be calmer
yet with energy at the sametime,
Agi Keramidas (21:30):
just a quick
pause. If you're finding this
conversation inspiring andthinking I want to learn more
about how to use breath work,then I highly recommend taking
out Tim's breathwork instructorprogramme. It's an eight week in
depth experience with everythingfrom science back techniques to
(21:54):
practical business tips, andit's all taught with Tim's calm,
empowering style. You can findthe link in the show notes. Now
let's carry on. Thank you. And Ihighlighted what you said that
our ability to slow down ourbreathing equals our ability to
(22:16):
manage stress, and it is. It'svery important to realise that
there is Thank you, Tim, andactually there is something else
that I wanted to discuss,different elements, shall we
say, of the benefits thatbreathwork gives you. Already
(22:37):
talked about calming down orbeing energised or being more
resilient in the moment, Iwanted to ask you about another
factor that is longevity. I readthe comment you wrote somewhere
about breath work being a longterm, long term health practice,
and I like very much that idea,rather than, you know something
(23:02):
that you go at a retreat and youdo some sessions, and then you
come back. My question is, I'vebeen reading specifically about
longevity, and one of the best,let's say, indicators of
longevity is the VO two Max,which is how the capacity of
(23:25):
oxygen that our lungs canhandle. So my question is, are
there any particular breath workpractices that you recommend for
increasing that you know,capacity, and therefore the
probability to live longer.
Tim van der Vliet (23:45):
Well, the it
has, for sure, to do with your
ability to use your diaphragmand to breathe through the
belly, because if you, if youuse your lower ends of your
lungs with every breath in, youtake up twice as much oxygen. So
that should have an effect onthe VO two ratio. And the funny
thing is, I was talking to adoctor in Brazil. I'm just back
(24:07):
from Brazil, from givingworkshops there and corporate
sessions and a retreat, aninstructor retreat. He was
asking me this question too, andI'm I'm very positive, but this
is something I haven't testedyet, but that if you would test
your your 302, before a 20minutes, say, tt, 35 rounds. Not
(24:34):
TT five what we just did, but TT35 rounds. So more like a 2030,
minute breathing session, thatafterwards our fear two would be
higher. So our ability to uptakeoxygen is directly influenced by
a breath work practice. So ifyou do a daily breathwork
practice that should have aneffect on your longevity, I want
(24:58):
to add, though, that. That thatlongevity is, of course,
interesting, and we all havewant to have a long life, but
what is more important for me isthe quality of life, you know.
And I've been talking to manybiohackers in the past, and
there's so much focus onlongevity. Well, I would say, if
(25:19):
you just increase the quality ofyour life. Likely you will live
longer too. But that is moreimportant than being very old,
you know, like we I have thefeeling I'm going to be 155
years old. I'm now 55 I haveanother 100 years to go, you
know. So I'm very positive Iwill live long, but the quality
(25:41):
of life, your amount ofhappiness, the ability to reduce
stress, is something that islike in the short term, giving
you the benefits that you mayactually be looking for and
having a longer life is like thecream on the cake. That happens
automatically.
Agi Keramidas (25:58):
I remember the
phrase I was reading about
longevity, and I couldn't agreewith you more that the quality
of your life, especially whenyou are old, really is the whole
point, rather than living formany, many decades and being,
You know, sick or exactly,debilitated, yes. So what I
(26:22):
remember reading was that he wastalking about aerobic exercise,
but you know, at the very end,we're talking about the lungs
and how we use our lungs, andalso breath work is a different
way. But he was saying that thiskind of exercise will make you
live longer, but when you dostrength exercise, that's make
(26:46):
that extra time worth livingbeing able to do the things that
you can. Anyway, I digress. Itwas something that made sense to
me, and I realised theimportance of doing, you know,
working out the body exactlywhen we get older, along with
our lungs. So,
Tim van der Vliet (27:06):
so I'm not a
doctor, so my recipe from not Dr
Tim is to do every day withoutfailure, two minutes of
exercise, five minutes ofbreathing and ending your shower
cold 30 seconds. So it's not,you know, like you hear
sometimes breathwork instructorsclaim that all you do is, is
(27:28):
breathing. I'm like, no, whatabout exercise? And the same
breathwork Instructor An hourlater, yeah, I'm getting fat.
I'm like, Yeah, well, I get it.
You know, it's not all aboutbreathing. For me, the breath
work is the 80% it's a missinglink. You know it's it's like,
where, where we really make ourlives better, better, because
exercise we know. But alsoending your shower cold only 30
(27:51):
seconds. It's so little, itdoesn't even cost you any time.
But if you do this every day,this is my holy trinity of the
perfect morning routine,everyday exercise, breath work,
cold exposure, keep it as littleas you can, minimum two minutes,
five minutes breath work. Sothat takes seven minutes and
ending your shower cold is notcosting you any time, but that
minimum thing you do, you willsee that after maybe a month of
(28:16):
practising something that littleyou want to go to Hot Yoga. You
like it. You go four times aweek. You start running again.
You know, so more is better, ofcourse, but stick to the
minimum, and this is like thetrue change in your life.
Agi Keramidas (28:34):
Indeed, this
comes back to what was saying
earlier, that these small thingscascade little bit exactly one
good habit brings about anothergood habit, and you know, over
time, you have a completelydifferent life than if you did
not.
Tim van der Vliet (28:51):
For example,
if, if people have the tendency
to overeat due to maybe fiverounds of TT five that we just
did to spend two minutesbreathing before you start
dinner. You know, if you're, ifyou're eating with the family,
do it in the kitchen orsomething, you know, like, if
(29:12):
you want to hide it, that'sfine. You, you just breathe a
little bit less. Or you, you youmake less sounds, but you will
notice you're calmer. You eatmore quietly. You would likely
not go for 80% thus helping yourbody weight.
Agi Keramidas (29:28):
You now teach
others to become breastwork
instructors. So I wanted to askyou to tell us about this who,
who is the person that might beinterested in something like
like that.
Tim van der Vliet (29:44):
It's select
three groups. Number one is, I
want to learn everything aboutbreathing for my own personal
development. This is also why,always why I do instructor
programmes. I want to learn moreabout myself. Number two. Is
people that are coach or apersonal trainer or a GP or a
doctor or things like that, thathave clients already and want to
(30:07):
implement like, for example,what we just did. I've one
doctor in Denmark, everybody isdoing one minute of four to
eight breathing before theystart the doctor session. And
it's very simple, but it works.
And then the group number threeare already breathwork
instructors called exposureinstructors, or want to be. And
they come to my programmebasically because it's, it's
(30:32):
very much in depth, you know,I've, I've, I've developed my
own techniques called TT, Tim'stechniques, which is exercise
breath work, called exposure.
And within the TT breath work,there's like six techniques. You
know, however, in my programme,I'm not only speaking and
(30:53):
practising my own techniques.
This is something I want to takea step back from two there's
only one technique, thetechnique that I learned or that
I developed, and that is helpingall the people. It's just not
true for some people, lighterbreath work, and for some
people, more intense breath workmay be the case. So you want to
learn about the whole spectrumof breath work and not just one
(31:17):
technique. So I think this isvery important. I mean, I'm
still doing pranayama, Breath ofFire, alternate nostril
breathing. Sometimes I do WimHof. I do bioflow sessions or
rebirthing. I Bucha breathingthrough the day. You know,
oxygen advantage, so to be awareof the whole spectrum of breath
(31:39):
work is what makes you a goodinstructor, so you can really
connect with the client and givewhat a person needs, instead of
that technique that you havelearned, and that is the answer
to everything. So I think thatis an important part as well.
It's not only my own techniques.
(32:00):
I feel science is important ifyou know what happens in your
body. This is bit of a paradox,but if you understand rationally
what is happening in your body,for example, you know like your
heartbeat goes up when you startbreathing deeper and faster,
very simple, but you start youwhen you understand what is
happening, you can let go ofthat same rational mind and
(32:22):
start to feel more so thescience behind cold exposure and
breath work is important. One ofthe things that I find
important, too, and this isreally making my life better, is
to have breathing exercises inpublic spaces. So for example,
in the London Underground, it'svery noisy. You can make a bit
(32:44):
of noise, but if you're in ataxi in the back in London, it's
very silent. So you want to keepyour voice down. But whether you
use breath work for walking, forkilling time, back of the taxi,
behind your computer at work,you know, like during a zoom
session. Breath work in publicspaces is, is really, you know,
(33:06):
there's so much waiting time ina day that if you have, like, a
palette of breath worktechniques that you can use in
public spaces, then you're doinggreat. Another thing that I'm,
I'm, I'm teaching a lot in thecorporate world, and I feel that
this is where we're needed. Youknow, like to teach at the yoga
school is fine, but if you teachin the corporate space, you can
(33:29):
help more people, plus the sideeffect is that you make more
money yourself. So making abusiness out of it is part of
what is on my agenda with everyinstructor programme that I give
and also being able to teach inthe corporate space. Then there
are, like, very short sessions,like we just did, or for
example, you know, if you wantto be able to listen better,
(33:52):
four counts in through the nose,four counts out through the
nose, just use it wheneveryou're listening. Use it now if
you want. And then I think thelast thing is that what, what I
felt that was a problem in mylife is, as a breathwork
instructor, I was living on myown island, you know, and all my
(34:13):
instructors, and there are over100 are actively teaching all
over the world. We have thiscommunity together. And when
somebody is doing their firstcorporate session, I'm nervous.
I'm getting paid good. This ismy plan. What do you guys think?
So everybody's helping eachother out. So instead of living
on your own island, we have awhole group, a whole community
(34:36):
of breathwork instructors thatis, is working together, you
know, assisting each other, it'sjust amazing. So I would say
those are a few bullets of ofhow I feel. I can instruct the
best breath work, cold exposureand light exercise instructors,
Agi Keramidas (34:56):
and I want to, I
will add to that, and wish you
from my heart to keep on. Indoing that and impacting the
people that learn from you as Ihave in the past. Thank you, and
I want to wish you all the verybest in doing this and being in
your your power and sharing withthe world you know, your this
(35:21):
beautiful knowledge and skills.
Tim, I don't have anything elseto add. I really enjoyed the
conversation. There were manythings that we talked about, and
I thought about another 20things that I would like to talk
about, perhaps in a thirdsession at some point. Well,
Tim van der Vliet (35:41):
I will. I
will talk to you in a few, few
years time, right? We're goingto do this
Agi Keramidas (35:47):
again, hopefully
not in many years, either way, I
will, for today, I will leave itto you for your parting wisdom
to the listener of thisconversation, okay, that would
be
Tim van der Vliet (36:02):
try to slow
down your breathing as much as
you can through the day. Andknow this that when we get
stressed, our breath breathingincreases, but we can be ahead
of that by being able to slowdown our breathing. And this is
maybe theoretically, but when weare able, if we would be able to
(36:26):
always slow down our breathing,you would be able to always
manage any kind of stress, andto really, you know, like, be
more breath aware. Do fiverounds of TT five every morning,
and then you will be slowingdown your breathing through the
day a lot more So breatheslowly.
Agi Keramidas (36:55):
Thank you for
listening to this conversation
with Tim Van der fleet. I hopeit has given you a fresh
perspective on how small,consistent breathwork habits can
reshape your health, mindset andoverall quality of life. If this
episode sparked something inyou, whether it is starting a
(37:17):
daily breathwork practice orsharing breathwork with others.
Teams. Breathwork instructorprogramme is a great next step,
whether you are a completebeginner or already working with
clients. Tim's approach isclear, comprehensive and
grounded. I am an affiliate forthe programme because I truly
(37:41):
believe in it. Check the shownotes for the link and explore
how you can deepen yourbreathwork journey until next
time, keep growing, keep showingup as your authentic self. Stand
Out. Don't fit in .