What if the key to mastering difficult conversations was hidden in the way you shake hands or ask a single question?
In a world where communication is more fragmented than ever, misinterpretation can derail deals, damage relationships, and escalate tensions. Former U.S. Secret Service Special Agent Brad Beeler has spent 25 years reading people under extreme pressure. In this episode, he reveals the body language cues, vocal techniques, and subtle shifts that can turn an awkward exchange into a moment of connection, whether you’re negotiating a business deal, leading a team, or navigating personal relationships.
- Learn the subtle handshake and body language adjustments that instantly create trust and credibility.
- Discover the vocal tone shifts that project confidence, reduce tension, and elicit more honest responses.
- Understand the patterns and red flags that can help you detect dishonesty—without relying on unreliable “one-size-fits-all” cues.
Press play now to learn how to decode people, lead with confidence, and transform even the toughest conversations into breakthroughs.
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KEY POINTS AND TIMESTAMPS:
02:45 - A Critical Communication Moment in China
06:22 - The Foundation of Body Language and Handshakes
11:55 - Mastering Vocal Tone and Tonality
16:53 - The Connection Between Sales and Interrogation
20:09 - Improving Communication in the Digital Age
23:27 - Detecting Dishonesty in High-Stakes Situations
29:04 - Personal Development Philosophy
30:56 - Advice for Your Younger Self
33:04 - Managing Inner State Under Pressure
36:47 - Closing Thoughts
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MEMORABLE QUOTE:
"Pace yourself, invest in becoming 1% better every day, and protect your reputation because your last name is everything."
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VALUABLE RESOURCES:
Connect with Brad: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradbeeler1865/
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To explore coaching with Agi: https://personaldevelopmentmasterypodcast.com/mentor
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🎙️ Want to be a guest?
Message Agi on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/member/personaldevelopmentmastery
˚
Personal development interviews exploring key principles of personal development, self improvement, self mastery, personal growth, self-discipline, and personal improvement — all supporting a life of purpose and fulfilment.
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Personal development podcast offering self-mastery and actionable wisdom for self help and living with purpose and fulfilment.
A self improvement podcast with inspirational and actionable insights to help you cultivate emotional intelligence, build confidence, and embrace your purpose. Discover practical tools and success habits for motivation, personal growth, self mastery, mindset shifts, growth mindset, self-discipline, meditation, wellness, spirituality, personal mastery, self growth, and personal improvement. Personal development interviews and mindset podcast content empowering entrepreneurs, leaders, and seekers to nurture mental health, commit to self-improvement, and create meaningful success and lasting happiness.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Agi Keramidas (00:00):
Negotiate like a pro body language, tonality and
(00:04):
handshake secrets to handle anyconversation with confidence.
Welcome to personal developmentmastery, the podcast that helps
intelligent, busy professionalsdevelop self mastery and gain
clarity so you can thrive in afulfilling, purposeful life.
(00:26):
Join us every Monday for aninsightful conversation with a
guest, and it's Thursday for ashorter episode where I reflect
and share with you I am yourhost, Agi Keramidas, and this is
episode 532 if you are lookingto improve your communication
skills and handle high stakesconversations with confidence,
(00:50):
this conversation with a formersecret agent explores how body
language, vocal tone and evenyour handshake can transform
your interactions by listeningtoday, you are going to learn
the subtle handshake and bodylanguage adjustments that
(01:11):
instantly create trust andcredibility. You will also
discover the vocal tone shiftsthat project confidence and
reduce tension, and you willunderstand the patterns and red
flags that can help you detectdishonesty. If you are ready to
(01:32):
communicate more effectively,then this episode is for you
before we dive in, if you are ina life or career transition and
resonate with the topics wediscuss here, I offer one to one
coaching and mentoring to helpyou find clarity and move
forward with purpose. Are youcurious to explore what that
(01:52):
could look like for you? Visitpersonal development mastery
podcast.com/mentor or just tapthe link in the show notes. Now
let's get started today. Myguest is Brad Beeler. Brad you
are a recently retired SpecialAgent with the United States
(02:14):
Secret Service, where you servedfor 25 years and became one of
the agency's most respectedpolygraph examiners. You Now
bring your expertise tocommunication, negotiation and
leadership, and you arepassionate about helping others
master communication andnavigate difficult conversations
(02:38):
using advanced credibility andelicitation techniques, Brad,
it's an honour to have you onthe show
Brad Beeler (02:46):
today. Welcome.
Thank you very much. Appreciateyou having me on it's
Agi Keramidas (02:51):
we will explore.
I'm looking forward to this, howto manage difficult
conversations, which issomething I believe very
important. Also, how to getpeople to open up improving
communication. So in this kindof topic, since you it is your
expertise before we go there, Iwould like you to tell us, can
(03:14):
you walk us through a realmoment where everything hinged
on your ability to communicateeffectively, and what happened,
how you handled it?
Brad Beeler (03:29):
No, that's a really insightful question, and it
definitely brings back a lot ofmemories a lot of the people
that I've talked to over theyears with polygraph, we help
out the local police departmentwhen it comes to their very
significant cases, homicide,child, sexual assault. So
there's been hundreds ofsituations where I'm trying to
get somebody to explainsomething that's maybe in their
(03:52):
not in their best interest,about how they committed an act
of violence or of inappropriatecontact with the child, but the
one thing that jumps into mindwhen he asked that question, was
a situation that happened inChina during a protective
assignment. So the SecretService, we do protection, but
we also do investigations. Butwhen the President and the
former president were coming toduring the US Olympics in
(04:14):
Beijing, basically, I had set upa security perimeter and
everything was dialled in. Wethought we had all contingencies
planned for and then about fiveminutes before arrival, we had
40 local police officers fromBeijing show up and basically
try to shut down the facility.
It was just mayhem. There waspushing, there was shoving,
between the US Olympic team,between the Chinese. I thought
(04:35):
we were gonna have aninternational incident. And it
just shows being able to speakthe local language wherever you
are. How important that is, andit's a superpower. If you can
speak whatever language inwhatever country you're in, not
only do you get instantcredibility, but it allows you
to navigate those difficultsituations. And as many
Americans I speak wanting onelanguage, and that's English,
(04:55):
and I could not communicate withthe locals. So. Luckily, I had a
secret service agent that spokeChinese Mandarin, and it was one
of these things where he wasable to somehow communicate, and
we're in this back and forth.
And right before arrival, wewere able to allow, you know,
kind of allow their detailleader to say, Hey, can you show
(05:18):
us around to kind of allow himto save face, and you know, so
just in the nick of time, wewere able to keep an
international incident fromhappening, and a lot of it was
just miscommunication, not beingable to speak someone's
language. So I a lot of what Italk about is the universal
language of body language. Mybest friend is deaf, and for 35
(05:38):
years, I do know sign language.
But before I learned signlanguage, I learned if, if he
can see my face, if I can bepresent in the conversation, and
if I can use my body language.
It doesn't matter what cultureyou're in, you can communicate
stress, distress and certainthings along those lines, or in
(05:58):
this sense, I can at leastcommunicate that I'm not a
threat to the Chinese nationalsas they were coming onto our
scene. So I am a true believerthat we need to focus on the
words we say, the lyrics, how wesay them, the soundtrack, and
then our body language, which isthe dance. And we got to put all
that together and be present inour conversations.
Agi Keramidas (06:22):
I like the metaphor of the dance and the in
the singing and the lyrics. It'squite interesting. Since you
mentioned body language, I wasplanning to ask you later on,
but since you mentioned it, theyou mentioned the role that it
plays in its importance, can yougive us, right now, something
(06:44):
that comes from your experienceas perhaps something that many
people do wrong in theirconversations with other people,
in their body language,something that we should be
aware of? Perhaps,
Brad Beeler (06:57):
yeah, I think I think it's really good question
how you frame it in that I thinkyou need to start on a timeline
almost of communication. So mostcommunication starts, at least
professionally, with ahandshake, and it ends with a
handshake. And what most peopleremember about a conversation is
the first part of theconversation and the last part
(07:18):
of the conversation. So we haveto hack that first body
language, which is as weapproach the person, and we
don't approach them with neutralwe don't approach them with
contempt, because firstimpressions, or the primacy
effect, is built upon ourancient ancestors, looking and
seeing, those are the first twomain senses, because they we can
(07:40):
do them from farther away as towhether or not you are a threat
to me. So that's it. Are you athreat to me? And even though
we've evolved, you know, overthese hundreds of 1000s of
years, that's something thatstill resides into us. Am I
experiencing a threat? So I wantsoft eyes. I maybe want even a
(08:01):
slight eyebrow flash, okay, justto show interest, I might expose
my carotid artery a little bit,just by kicking my head off to
the side. I'm going to have gooddistance between my ear and my
shoulders, which is going toshow that I'm not tense. I'm
going to be showing my hands,all right. I don't have a
weapon. I'm going to be showingmy hands. And when we go into a
handshake, there's the besthandshake in the world is a dry
(08:24):
handshake that's not cold andtoo often. And I know you've
probably had bad handshakes thatare cold and clammy. It's
brought on by nerves, right? Soif I'm see, if I'm seated at a
dinner party, something likethat, I'm not going to be
holding on to a cold waterbottle, because then when I
shake your hand, it's going tobe cold and it's going to be
wet, so instantaneously,subconsciously to them, that is,
(08:46):
that is a really bad sign. Butif I take my coffee cup here and
I'm holding on to that, and thenI shake your hand, I've got the
warmth down. Also, if I know I'mgoing to be going in for a job
interview or a sensitivecommunication, I will put Anna
Perrin on my hands. That way youwill never get moisture from me
when I shake your hands. I'mtypically going to have my hand
at about a one o'clock becausepeople naturally like to
(09:08):
pronate, and as a result, I'mexposing the lighter part of my
hand, which shows, once again, Idon't have a weapon. It's going
to be easier for you to notmisconnect When you shake my
hand. And I think what a lot ofpeople misunderstand about a
handshake is it's not a shake,it's a hold. Too many times
people sit there and they shakeuncomfortably. Some of this is
culturally, I know you're Greek,okay, handshake and touching is
(09:30):
different, you know, in thatpart of the world than it is in
others. But in, you know, inAmerica, a nice one second hold
while we have eye contact, whileour heart is facing their heart,
the worst thing we can do isface away, shake someone's hand
and not have eye contact. Thepoliticians that do that are
(09:51):
viewed as uncharismatic. Thepoliticians that I've seen that
do do that are viewed as verycharismatic, regardless of
politics people. Say what theywant about Bill Clinton, Barack
Obama, whatever, on either sideof the aisle here in America,
but they will say that thosepeople had charisma and they
connected with me because theyhave great handshakes and they
have great interpersonal skills.
So I would say, I know I've kindof went on to the tangent, but I
(10:14):
would say handshakes aresomething that people mess up
every day in the world. And ifyou get that right, you're going
to metaphorically put a halo onyour head instead of horns. And
then, because of cognitive bias,what's going to happen is people
are going to look for the bestin you instead of assume the
worst. So in business, personallife, professional life, if you
(10:35):
get a great handshake and youkeep an open posture during the
interaction with maybe a nice,slight flow, forward, lean,
nice, minimal encouragers aswe're going on, and definitely
never showing contempt. I'velost confessions when
subconsciously I furrowed mybrow and I showed disgust when
you show that that is a hugestopper in interpersonal
(10:57):
communications. Hmm?
Agi Keramidas (11:03):
Thank you for this detailed and so expansive
answer. It was so many differentelements there of the body
language. Appreciate it verymuch. I will ask you, since you
started giving this and I'm verymuch fond of these practical
things that one can pick andimplement straight away. I would
(11:29):
like also to hear your thoughtsor advice perhaps on the other
big, big part of communication,which is our tonality, how we
use the tone of our voice. Ithink you said it was it the
singing when you used themetaphor again, tell us what
many people do wrong, and howcan one start to improve things
Brad Beeler (11:55):
absolutely. So we sometimes think about the
perfect words to say while we'retalking, and how this relates to
me personally is I remember,during my first polygraph
examination where I was out ofmy internship, I was on my own,
somebody failed my test. It wasa double homicide, and it was
one of these things where Ireally wanted to obtain why this
person did this. I wanted themto admit but when I confronted
(12:18):
them, it was my voice pitch wassuper high. You could tell I was
unsure of myself. My statementsounded like questions, and
that's what we got to be carefulabout, is that upward pitch,
especially when we first meet,because we are coded to hear a
higher pitch voice from anevolutionary standard as
threats. It's kind of like withour kids, when you can tell if
(12:40):
your kid is hurt by how they'recrying, if that is a super high
pitch cry and it'sinstantaneous, we code that as
Oh, boy, what's going on? We gotto go check out what happened in
the other room. It's the samething when I meet someone, and
if they have a very high pitchedvoice, even if it's at a
subconscious level, I can codethat as distress, unsure. You
(13:00):
know that they're unsure oftheir self, that they're not
confident. So I don't want youto be fake about it, but if when
we first meet, what I like to dois I slow down and I lower my
vocal tonality just a littlebit, because I don't want to
come off as if I'm in stresswhen you listen to police radio
calls, especially with a lot ofrookies, what you'll hear is,
(13:24):
you know, they're nervous,they're amped up, and they sound
like the 12 year old version ofthemselves. They don't sound
like somebody that's calm andcomposed. So if you're doing a
negotiation, if you're selling acar, if you're talking to your
kids, you need to think if wewrote those words out, if the
teleprompter wrote them out,would there have been a question
mark after the end of it, orwould there have been an
(13:46):
exclamation point after the endof it? You know, if in those the
way we say, it can also lead toother inquiries. So if you were
talking about a negotiation, andyou were saying, I'm just under
a lot of pressure at work rightnow, and I mirror back to you
and I say, so you're under a lotof pressure. That's one way to
(14:07):
say it, and that's a statement,and it's going to get a yes or
yes or no answer if I say so,you're under a lot of pressure.
You see, I kind of went up alittle bit in my voice
inflection. People want toanswer a question, so what they
may say is, yeah, you know, man,I'm just I didn't hit my number
last month, and, you know, I'vegot some stuff going on at home.
Whatever the case may be, Iinstantly elicited two or three
(14:29):
different bits of information byhow I ended that question. But
that's usually not how I like todo it. Usually, if I'm not
eliciting and I want to soundconfident, I want to. It's like
when I say the word no, if I'mquestioning a bad guy, and I
say, did you do X, Y and Z, andthey said, No, it's almost like
(14:50):
they're asking the question tosee if I buy their their answer,
versus DID YOU DO THAT badthing? No. Well, that was with
an exclamation point. So if youwant conviction. Connection in
your communications. Think, ifsomebody was just listening to
this, would it sound as if I hadan exclamation point behind what
the word that I just spoke? Youknow, the analogy I like to give
(15:13):
is the old band, Milli Vanilli.
You know, they made it in the80s, right? I went to one of
their concerts, right? I went toone of their concerts. And for
your listeners that don't knowMilli Vanilli, the lyrics were
written by, I think farian washis name. He was a producer, and
he took a German model and aDutch model, and basically they
(15:33):
were great dancers, and hebasically created this image
where they weren't the singers.
They didn't write the music, andat the Grammy Awards, the DVD
kept sticking, and it all cameout, but they sold, I don't
know, 12, 15 million records,whatever the case may be,
because of the complete imagethe dancing, okay? It wasn't the
(15:55):
words, the singing was okay. Itwas the dancing. Once people
realise that, Oh, that wasn'treally them. The other band, the
actual Milli Vanilli, put theirmusic out, and nobody bought it
because they didn't have thatlast aspect of putting it all
together.
Agi Keramidas (16:13):
I do remember them. And then the real Milli
Vanilli remember any of the realone songs, but I remember a
couple of songs, of the theother one, thank you. This is
very useful, Brad. Let me ask. Iwill bring us to something,
(16:36):
let's say a bit more specific.
Now I read something, and itintrigued me that you wrote, you
said something about sales andinterrogation being related. So
I would like to hear more aboutthis.
Brad Beeler (16:53):
Yeah. So if you think about it, and if we go to
Cialdini principle, ArizonaState PhD, put out a book called
Influence, many, many years ago,sold millions and millions of
copies, but he looked at theprinciples of influence,
reciprocity, consistency. Itgoes on and on, seven to eight
principles, scarcity. We do thesame thing, and I don't want to
(17:14):
use the word sometimes the wordinterrogation gets a bad name. I
would say investigativeinterview, and I use the word
interrogation, but sometimes inthe public Nexus, it gets a
little because people think ofthe dark side of interrogation,
Agi Keramidas (17:26):
which we don't.
Thank you for thank you forclarifying that
Brad Beeler (17:29):
we we have conversations, and I never raise
my voice. I'm in, you know,personable, empathetic, but a
lot of people, you know, theHollywood version of
interrogation, you know, kicksin. So I'm selling a product.
You're selling a product. Peopleare selling something with their
kids every single day. It'sjust, I'm selling jail, okay?
(17:52):
I'm selling a timeshare for 15years, maybe in an eight by
eight cell that has allinclusive meals will provide you
know this, that's a hard thingto sell. Okay, but are there
certain things that I'm going todo? Yes, I'm going to prepare.
I'm going to know the casebacks. Do we think when you walk
on a car lot that they're notpreparing? I may provide them
(18:12):
food, water and drink. The samething's going to happen with
that car dealer. That's going tosay, Can I get you something to
drink? I'm going to give them apolygraph examination. They're
going to give you a test drive,okay? After the test drive,
okay, they're going to bring youback to the finance office. I'm
going to bring you maybe back tothe interview room to talk to
you about how you did poorly onthe polygraph. So selling is is
(18:36):
pretty universal. I think we weget we make it too complicated.
It's about connecting withpeople. It's about preparing
with people. It's providingabout what is in your best
interest. For me, I focus a lot,not on the what, but the why.
And if you can give the peoplewhy, they can make their own
decision on how it's in theirbest interest. So you tell
stories we've gotten away fromthat. We don't improv anymore.
(18:58):
We talk to people in delayedcommunications, text messages,
emails, and as a result, we havethe inability to do what we're
doing right now, where I cangauge in how you just responded,
oh, you gave me a minimalencourager. There. You shook
your head, yes. So we've lostthat ability. And you wonder,
why, when people get in a salesenvironment this current
(19:18):
generation, or they come in fora job interview, how there's
that delay and there's that deerin the headlights look because
they're not used to engaging inthose spontaneous
Communications.
Agi Keramidas (19:34):
Thank you. That is indeed. And since you brought
it up, let's I would like tohear a bit more about this lack
of the the other communicationelements that the emails and
texts that many people rely on,especially the younger
generations, if you havesomething perhaps. Again, I will
(20:00):
say the word practical forsomeone, perhaps, that they
should do in a better way, in animproved way.
Brad Beeler (20:09):
Yeah. So to go back first, when you talked about
your voice, there are tonnes ofapplications that you can get on
your iPhone or your Androidthat, literally, in five minutes
a day, can teach you to havebetter vocal range, so you make
yourself more interesting, theyactually will record how fast
you're speaking, because wetypically want to be about 130
words per minute, so that youget cognizant of that. So I'd
(20:32):
say, as far as voice, that'ssomething that you can
definitely do. Another thing isrecord yourself. So what I teach
a lot of my students, when I wasteaching at the federal
polygraph school here in theUnited States, is I would record
them just like we're in asituation right now, but I would
have them watch it without thevideo, and just have them listen
(20:54):
to themselves. And then what Iwould do is I'd turn the volume
down, I'd have them watchthemselves, and I say, Are you
congruent in your message?
Because you're looking down,you're trying to sound
confident. If I just listen toyou, I would say that's a
confident person. Or I would seeand they've got this body
language, but they're talkinglike this, you know. So that was
very eye opening, because a lotof people can't, in real time,
(21:19):
see what they're doing wrong,and just understand you don't
have to pick the right word,because the words are not as
important as how you look sayingthe word and how you sound
saying the word. So if you canmaster those, you don't have to
sit there and think most peoplehave about 25,000 words in their
(21:40):
brain. So think about the Thinkabout the software. Is that too
many people get into softwareproblem? Okay, they're thinking
about the perfect word versusworrying about the hardware.
Okay, I can hack the hardware alot easier than I can fix the
software. So if and thehardware, in my opinion, body
language and how we speak ismore important. Who remembers
(22:01):
the voice of Darth Vader? Okay?
Everyone? James Earl Jones,right? You put anyone else in
that part, and that's not DarthVader. So how we sound is, I
don't want to say it's a lifehack, but if you're going to do
something for 10 minutes a day,your voice can be improved
(22:22):
drastically.
Agi Keramidas (22:25):
Excellent. Thank you for that's very useful and
very practical. As a matter offact, I was, you know, sometimes
you have some ads that come upon your Instagram feed, and
this, I have kept getting that.
So now that you've alsomentioned it, I think it's time
for me to check it out. Sothanks a lot.
Brad Beeler (22:46):
Yeah, try it out seven days. Usually they give
you for free. You know, try itout.
Agi Keramidas (22:51):
I will most certainly, Brad, let me ask
something a little bit differentwhen we are in let's say, or
when someone is in a high stakessituation. Let's say it is
negotiating a deal, for example,or an important leadership
(23:11):
meeting. How can we tell whensomeone is is not being honest
is and what's the best way torespond, or, you know, respond
to that?
Brad Beeler (23:27):
Yeah, it's a great question, and obviously it's
dependent upon culture,circumstance, context in some
respects. But let's say I'm in abusiness meeting and somebody is
talking about quarterly earningsor a product, whatever the case
may be, I would love and it'samazing what's out there about
people. So in my preparation,I'm going to see if there's any
(23:48):
online one what's out there?
Because everybody doesn't puttheir diaries under their bed
anymore. They put their diariesonline, right? So I'm going to
do my preparation. I'm going tofind out, do I have any other
instances of this personspeaking in similar situations,
so that I can establish thatbaseline. And anybody that says,
hey, if you touch your nose oryou do this or eye contact, that
there's no one characteristicthat denotes if somebody's being
(24:13):
honest. But the way I like toview it as this is when someone
is in an open you give them anopen ended question. It's kind
of like a dog off a leash, andthey can take you wherever they
want to take you, and they canomit whatever they don't want to
say that's negative in their youknow, in their life. So when
they're off the leash andthey're giving me a statement,
(24:35):
I'm looking for words like sothen next, after that,
transitional type words that Iwill then take little notes, and
I'll be like, okay, and thenwhat I'll do is I'll ask
specific questions around thosetime frames to try to determine
now I'm giving you a yes or noquestion, and the easiest way to
explain this is, if I ask you ayes or no question, I should get
(24:57):
a yes. Or no response, and Ishould get it in a timely
fashion. If I the first thingthat I look for is delay,
because it's the easiest to seeis that if I ask you, did you
shoot that man? It's pretty easyfor you to say no. If I ask you,
did you shoot that man? Andthere's a long delay, and you
(25:18):
repeat the question, you'rebuying yourself time, is it 100%
Absolutely not. But it's a hugered flag, because that was an
easy question, and you shouldhave been able to give me an
easy response. If, if I give youa yes or no answer and you say,
Well, usually, Well, normally,for the most part, anything with
an ly exclusive qualifiers, bigred flags for me, if I ask you a
(25:38):
yes or no question and youconfront me, how dare you ask
me, or you spice it up with, I'mthe most religious person in the
world. Why would I ever do that?
It's not 100% but I'm asking youa yes or no question, why do you
feel like you need to helpyourself out and get you know
external validity in thatquestion? Why do you have to
(26:00):
shroud yourself in religion withthat you know, a lot of times
people will do a truth sandwich,where they'll have truthful
information, because that'slowers the cortisol of line and
the fear of lying. Then theythrow the lie in there, and then
they get another truthfulstatement, so that, because it's
uncomfortable to lie. So that'swhat a lot of times people will
do. You can also subtly,sometimes see this, where people
(26:24):
are shaking their head yes andthey say no, or they're shaking
their head no and they say yes.
You very rarely see it, but whenyou do the body language is what
I'm going to trust, not thespoken word. Many, many times
it's a disconnect, and then theshifting vocal inflection that
we talked about earlier, as faras no kind of said as a
question. So I see that a lotwith my kids, did you clean your
(26:45):
room? Yeah, yes, or did you doyou? Did you get all your
homework done? I got all my mathhomework done. Well, that was
very specific, right? Did youget all your homework done? Oh,
no, I still got some English,right? So those are little I
hope there's some somethingthere that somebody can unpack
is that you look for clusters,you look for multiple things.
(27:07):
You look for things you can honein on and ask additional
questions. But if you look atwhat's out there on Tiktok and
Instagram on, yeah, I touched mynose. I did this, I crossed my
arms. Those are situationalfactors that in the time could
happen for a lot of
Agi Keramidas (27:24):
different reasons. This is great. I got
the from that because it wasn'tit. I think many things someone
can pick, for me was thehesitation before answering what
should be a simple yes or noanswer. And that's something
that, of course, if someonehesitates answering every
question, I suppose, depends onthe person also Yes, baseline,
(27:49):
exactly. Brad, I want to Well,it's been a truly fascinating
conversation, the topic ofcommunication and connection,
because, in the end, it has todo with connection. You
mentioned influence all thesethings. You mentioned examples
(28:10):
with the children, our children,all these things are, I believe,
foundational in our Well, ourexperience of life. Also, the
better we are at communicating,the more we can also do as I
will start wrapping things up,the first thing I want to ask
(28:33):
you is, where would you like todirect the listener who has
enjoyed this conversation andwants to find out more about
Brad Beeler (28:42):
you, sure I'm on LinkedIn and Instagram. Brad
Beeler, 1865 on both and becauseI'm writing a new book, I had to
come up with a website thatshould be out here next week, or
at least by the time the episodedrops. It's Bradley beeler.com
that'd probably be the best wayto get a hold of me.
Agi Keramidas (29:04):
Thank you. And I have two quick questions, which
I always ask my guests, whatdoes personal development mean
to you?
Brad Beeler (29:16):
Interesting for me, personal development is I love
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and I wantto view life as Brazilian Jiu
Jitsu. And what I mean by thatis, there's a belt structure.
It's you start out as a whitebelt, and you learn a lot,
really, really quick, and thenyou start learning less things
(29:37):
as you go on, you become a bluebelt, a purple belt. And now,
instead of learning 10 Things topractice, I learn one thing a
week. And that's a lot aboutlife, right? We learn a lot in
our adolescent years, or a lotin our college years, and then
we're like, we got it allfigured out. And that's a lot of
times when people quit jiu jitsubecause they quit learning
things. So what I say to a lotof people in my generation that
(29:58):
think they know it all is youdon't. Built and personal
development for me is being 1%better every day, learning one
thing every day that I can makeactionable. But most
importantly, I've realised youcan only be you can only control
what you do in personaldevelopment, for me is providing
my skill set and the mistakesthat I've made to the people
(30:18):
that I'm teaching, thosemetaphorical white belts, so
they can maybe change theirtrajectory and level up quicker
than I did, so I can hopefullymentor them so they don't have
to go through some of thechallenges and lessons learned
that I did and maybe lose out ona case like I did. So personal
development for me is helpingthe next generation. You
Agi Keramidas (30:44):
Agi and a hypothetical question, if you
could go back in time and meetyour 18 year old self, what's
one piece of advice you wouldgive him?
Brad Beeler (30:56):
Man, you're throwing some heavy, heavy
hitters at us. I would be, Idon't. I don't think I would
give myself much, because I'velearned more from my mistakes.
And I know, I don't know ifthat's a cop out answer, but I
truly believe in the butterflyeffect that one thing can affect
something else. Is that mistakesI made or places I didn't go to
school, you know, or I playedsoccer in college here, versus
(31:20):
not is the only reason that Iwas in this situation and threw
a snowball at my buddy, and thesnowball missed him and hit my
wife, my future wife that I'vebeen married to for 27 years. So
if I gave myself advice, itwould completely change that
trajectory. I would just sayyour last name is everything,
(31:41):
and don't go for the quicksuccess, right? I mean, you like
running life is a marathon,right? It's not a 5k It's not a
sprint, it's a marathon. Andthat, I would tell my 18 year
old self, pace yourself, right?
You don't run that first mile ofthe marathon at a 5k pace,
right? So pace yourself. Get 1%better every day, and it's kind
(32:03):
of like the stock market. If youinvest in an index fund at the
age of 18, you're going to be amulti millionaire by the time
you're 50. So invest inyourself. Get 1% better. Your
last name is everything. Don'tever do anything that would
sacrifice that, but you know, soI hope I gave you a little bit
(32:23):
of both there, but I'd be verycareful about the advice that I
gave myself, my 18 year oldself,
Agi Keramidas (32:29):
of course. And actually now you gave me a
handle here, which I'm going topick. I don't know if you
probably did it inadvertently.
You said something about theheavy heaters. Or I do have one
more question I would like toask to end up you have spent
decades reading people underpressure. What have this
(32:50):
experience taught you aboutmastering your own inner state
in, you know, this high stressenvironments or in a high stress
situation,
Brad Beeler (33:04):
yeah, don't, don't react. And what I mean by that
is, if you think from aprotective standpoint. So Secret
Service, we do protection. Inever, and what we're taught is
never let people see you sweatoutwardly, because then it's
going to cause fear amongeverybody because they're
looking at you, right? It's kindof like a flight attendant. If a
flight attendant is on a bumpyflight, what's that? What are
(33:27):
they taught to do? Right? Thisis normal. What are they maybe
thinking internally? Oh, dang,right. But if they show that
every 300 people on that planeis gonna Oh, my God, we're going
down, right? So I would saydon't, don't expose that
negative emotion or thatcontempt is but it's sometimes
it's hard, because I've talkedto hundreds of paedophiles, and
(33:50):
obviously their behaviour isdisgusting, but if I show that
and I and I'm not curious andI'm judgmental, they're going to
shut down on me. So I always amextremely curious about leisure
activities. So if I was talkingto you, I would focus on your
marathons and how that journeycame about and what you get out
of it. And, you know, I wouldlet you bathe in that be. And I
(34:13):
wouldn't try to one up you. Youwouldn't say 5k and say, Oh, I
did a half marathon. And you'dsay, I did a half marathon. I'd
say, Oh yeah, I did a fullmarathon. And you said, Oh, I
did London, yeah, I did Chicago.
And then you say, I did a halfIronman, well, I did a full
Ironman, yeah, it's we get intothis tit for tat and modern
communication where I bring itup. I'll let you talk about it.
You know, I may ask about yourshoes. What kind of nutrition
(34:34):
you use on the course? And as acourse of that, you're going to
start man, Brad kind of knows alittle bit about this, and you
asked me the question thenabout, so do you run so too many
times in conversation, and I'msure you get this is you bring
it up, and somebody instantlythinks that they're building
rapport with you by saying theydid the same thing. Nope, you're
(34:56):
just being a jerk. You. Right?
So sorry. I took that questionand kind of turned a little bit
I thought, I think that that'ssuch an important lesson. And,
you know, I think we usemetaphors a lot when we're
talking to people, and I alwaysneed to do the preparation. So
for you, I would use metaphorsabout dentistry. I would use
(35:16):
metaphors about, you know,running and taking care of
yourself and personaldevelopment. And you know that
life is a journey, that life isa marathon, that we have this
many books of life I would talkabout, maybe if you were a bad
guy, I'd say, look, we'veidentified the problem here.
Similar to dentistry, we take abite, ring, X ray, we see where
there's a problem, and what dowe need to do? We need to go fix
(35:37):
that problem. Because if wedon't fix the problem, John,
we're next thing. You know,we're doing a root canal. I
mean, sounds like it sounds likea goofy metaphor, but for you, I
could not be talking about thecrime, but I could use dentistry
as the metaphor to connectbrother.
Agi Keramidas (35:55):
I want to thank you so much for this
conversation. It wasfascinating. I appreciate you. I
want to wish you the very bestwhen spreading this empowering
message of you know how toimprove our communication. I
will leave it to you for yourparting words. My
Brad Beeler (36:16):
parting words are a great interview, and you threw
me three or four questions thatI've never been asked before. So
it's like anything else, right?
Is that to be better atpodcasting or communication, you
can't do the same thing everyday. When I do jujitsu, I like
to go to different schools,because you're not in this echo
chamber. You get somewhere elseand you try something else. So
you threw me in a different echochamber here today, which is
(36:36):
always good. You showed me somedifferent things. I have to
respond to them. It's going tomake me 1% better today. So
mission accomplished.
Agi Keramidas (36:47):
Thank you for listening to this conversation
with Brad Beeler. I hope it hasgiven you a fresh perspective on
how to navigate difficultconversations and create
meaningful connections. If thisconversation inspired or helped
you. If it gave you somethingmeaningful, consider supporting
the show. Just visit personaldevelopment mastery
(37:10):
podcast.com/support or tap thelink in the episode description.
As a thank you, I will send youa personal, small gift and
mention you in a future episode.
Thank you for being part of thejourney until next time stand
out. Don't fit in.
Negotiate like a pro body language, tonality and
(00:04):
handshake secrets to handle anyconversation with confidence.
Welcome to personal developmentmastery, the podcast that helps
intelligent, busy professionalsdevelop self mastery and gain
clarity so you can thrive in afulfilling, purposeful life.
(00:26):
Join us every Monday for aninsightful conversation with a
guest, and it's Thursday for ashorter episode where I reflect
and share with you I am yourhost, Agi Keramidas, and this is
episode 532 if you are lookingto improve your communication
skills and handle high stakesconversations with confidence,
(00:50):
this conversation with a formersecret agent explores how body
language, vocal tone and evenyour handshake can transform
your interactions by listeningtoday, you are going to learn
the subtle handshake and bodylanguage adjustments that
(01:11):
instantly create trust andcredibility. You will also
discover the vocal tone shiftsthat project confidence and
reduce tension, and you willunderstand the patterns and red
flags that can help you detectdishonesty. If you are ready to
(01:32):
communicate more effectively,then this episode is for you
before we dive in, if you are ina life or career transition and
resonate with the topics wediscuss here, I offer one to one
coaching and mentoring to helpyou find clarity and move
forward with purpose. Are youcurious to explore what that
(01:52):
could look like for you? Visitpersonal development mastery
podcast.com/mentor or just tapthe link in the show notes. Now
let's get started today. Myguest is Brad Beeler. Brad you
are a recently retired SpecialAgent with the United States
(02:14):
Secret Service, where you servedfor 25 years and became one of
the agency's most respectedpolygraph examiners. You Now
bring your expertise tocommunication, negotiation and
leadership, and you arepassionate about helping others
master communication andnavigate difficult conversations
(02:38):
using advanced credibility andelicitation techniques, Brad,
it's an honour to have you onthe show
Brad Beeler (02:46):
today. Welcome.
Thank you very much. Appreciateyou having me on it's
Agi Keramidas (02:51):
we will explore.
I'm looking forward to this, howto manage difficult
conversations, which issomething I believe very
important. Also, how to getpeople to open up improving
communication. So in this kindof topic, since you it is your
expertise before we go there, Iwould like you to tell us, can
(03:14):
you walk us through a realmoment where everything hinged
on your ability to communicateeffectively, and what happened,
how you handled it?
Brad Beeler (03:29):
No, that's a really insightful question, and it
definitely brings back a lot ofmemories a lot of the people
that I've talked to over theyears with polygraph, we help
out the local police departmentwhen it comes to their very
significant cases, homicide,child, sexual assault. So
there's been hundreds ofsituations where I'm trying to
get somebody to explainsomething that's maybe in their
(03:52):
not in their best interest,about how they committed an act
of violence or of inappropriatecontact with the child, but the
one thing that jumps into mindwhen he asked that question, was
a situation that happened inChina during a protective
assignment. So the SecretService, we do protection, but
we also do investigations. Butwhen the President and the
former president were coming toduring the US Olympics in
(04:14):
Beijing, basically, I had set upa security perimeter and
everything was dialled in. Wethought we had all contingencies
planned for and then about fiveminutes before arrival, we had
40 local police officers fromBeijing show up and basically
try to shut down the facility.
It was just mayhem. There waspushing, there was shoving,
between the US Olympic team,between the Chinese. I thought
(04:35):
we were gonna have aninternational incident. And it
just shows being able to speakthe local language wherever you
are. How important that is, andit's a superpower. If you can
speak whatever language inwhatever country you're in, not
only do you get instantcredibility, but it allows you
to navigate those difficultsituations. And as many
Americans I speak wanting onelanguage, and that's English,
(04:55):
and I could not communicate withthe locals. So. Luckily, I had a
secret service agent that spokeChinese Mandarin, and it was one
of these things where he wasable to somehow communicate, and
we're in this back and forth.
And right before arrival, wewere able to allow, you know,
kind of allow their detailleader to say, Hey, can you show
(05:18):
us around to kind of allow himto save face, and you know, so
just in the nick of time, wewere able to keep an
international incident fromhappening, and a lot of it was
just miscommunication, not beingable to speak someone's
language. So I a lot of what Italk about is the universal
language of body language. Mybest friend is deaf, and for 35
(05:38):
years, I do know sign language.
But before I learned signlanguage, I learned if, if he
can see my face, if I can bepresent in the conversation, and
if I can use my body language.
It doesn't matter what cultureyou're in, you can communicate
stress, distress and certainthings along those lines, or in
(05:58):
this sense, I can at leastcommunicate that I'm not a
threat to the Chinese nationalsas they were coming onto our
scene. So I am a true believerthat we need to focus on the
words we say, the lyrics, how wesay them, the soundtrack, and
then our body language, which isthe dance. And we got to put all
that together and be present inour conversations.
Agi Keramidas (06:22):
I like the metaphor of the dance and the in
the singing and the lyrics. It'squite interesting. Since you
mentioned body language, I wasplanning to ask you later on,
but since you mentioned it, theyou mentioned the role that it
plays in its importance, can yougive us, right now, something
(06:44):
that comes from your experienceas perhaps something that many
people do wrong in theirconversations with other people,
in their body language,something that we should be
aware of? Perhaps,
Brad Beeler (06:57):
yeah, I think I think it's really good question
how you frame it in that I thinkyou need to start on a timeline
almost of communication. So mostcommunication starts, at least
professionally, with ahandshake, and it ends with a
handshake. And what most peopleremember about a conversation is
the first part of theconversation and the last part
(07:18):
of the conversation. So we haveto hack that first body
language, which is as weapproach the person, and we
don't approach them with neutralwe don't approach them with
contempt, because firstimpressions, or the primacy
effect, is built upon ourancient ancestors, looking and
seeing, those are the first twomain senses, because they we can
(07:40):
do them from farther away as towhether or not you are a threat
to me. So that's it. Are you athreat to me? And even though
we've evolved, you know, overthese hundreds of 1000s of
years, that's something thatstill resides into us. Am I
experiencing a threat? So I wantsoft eyes. I maybe want even a
(08:01):
slight eyebrow flash, okay, justto show interest, I might expose
my carotid artery a little bit,just by kicking my head off to
the side. I'm going to have gooddistance between my ear and my
shoulders, which is going toshow that I'm not tense. I'm
going to be showing my hands,all right. I don't have a
weapon. I'm going to be showingmy hands. And when we go into a
handshake, there's the besthandshake in the world is a dry
(08:24):
handshake that's not cold andtoo often. And I know you've
probably had bad handshakes thatare cold and clammy. It's
brought on by nerves, right? Soif I'm see, if I'm seated at a
dinner party, something likethat, I'm not going to be
holding on to a cold waterbottle, because then when I
shake your hand, it's going tobe cold and it's going to be
wet, so instantaneously,subconsciously to them, that is,
(08:46):
that is a really bad sign. Butif I take my coffee cup here and
I'm holding on to that, and thenI shake your hand, I've got the
warmth down. Also, if I know I'mgoing to be going in for a job
interview or a sensitivecommunication, I will put Anna
Perrin on my hands. That way youwill never get moisture from me
when I shake your hands. I'mtypically going to have my hand
at about a one o'clock becausepeople naturally like to
(09:08):
pronate, and as a result, I'mexposing the lighter part of my
hand, which shows, once again, Idon't have a weapon. It's going
to be easier for you to notmisconnect When you shake my
hand. And I think what a lot ofpeople misunderstand about a
handshake is it's not a shake,it's a hold. Too many times
people sit there and they shakeuncomfortably. Some of this is
culturally, I know you're Greek,okay, handshake and touching is
(09:30):
different, you know, in thatpart of the world than it is in
others. But in, you know, inAmerica, a nice one second hold
while we have eye contact, whileour heart is facing their heart,
the worst thing we can do isface away, shake someone's hand
and not have eye contact. Thepoliticians that do that are
(09:51):
viewed as uncharismatic. Thepoliticians that I've seen that
do do that are viewed as verycharismatic, regardless of
politics people. Say what theywant about Bill Clinton, Barack
Obama, whatever, on either sideof the aisle here in America,
but they will say that thosepeople had charisma and they
connected with me because theyhave great handshakes and they
have great interpersonal skills.
So I would say, I know I've kindof went on to the tangent, but I
(10:14):
would say handshakes aresomething that people mess up
every day in the world. And ifyou get that right, you're going
to metaphorically put a halo onyour head instead of horns. And
then, because of cognitive bias,what's going to happen is people
are going to look for the bestin you instead of assume the
worst. So in business, personallife, professional life, if you
(10:35):
get a great handshake and youkeep an open posture during the
interaction with maybe a nice,slight flow, forward, lean,
nice, minimal encouragers aswe're going on, and definitely
never showing contempt. I'velost confessions when
subconsciously I furrowed mybrow and I showed disgust when
you show that that is a hugestopper in interpersonal
(10:57):
communications. Hmm?
Agi Keramidas (11:03):
Thank you for this detailed and so expansive
answer. It was so many differentelements there of the body
language. Appreciate it verymuch. I will ask you, since you
started giving this and I'm verymuch fond of these practical
things that one can pick andimplement straight away. I would
(11:29):
like also to hear your thoughtsor advice perhaps on the other
big, big part of communication,which is our tonality, how we
use the tone of our voice. Ithink you said it was it the
singing when you used themetaphor again, tell us what
many people do wrong, and howcan one start to improve things
Brad Beeler (11:55):
absolutely. So we sometimes think about the
perfect words to say while we'retalking, and how this relates to
me personally is I remember,during my first polygraph
examination where I was out ofmy internship, I was on my own,
somebody failed my test. It wasa double homicide, and it was
one of these things where Ireally wanted to obtain why this
person did this. I wanted themto admit but when I confronted
(12:18):
them, it was my voice pitch wassuper high. You could tell I was
unsure of myself. My statementsounded like questions, and
that's what we got to be carefulabout, is that upward pitch,
especially when we first meet,because we are coded to hear a
higher pitch voice from anevolutionary standard as
threats. It's kind of like withour kids, when you can tell if
(12:40):
your kid is hurt by how they'recrying, if that is a super high
pitch cry and it'sinstantaneous, we code that as
Oh, boy, what's going on? We gotto go check out what happened in
the other room. It's the samething when I meet someone, and
if they have a very high pitchedvoice, even if it's at a
subconscious level, I can codethat as distress, unsure. You
(13:00):
know that they're unsure oftheir self, that they're not
confident. So I don't want youto be fake about it, but if when
we first meet, what I like to dois I slow down and I lower my
vocal tonality just a littlebit, because I don't want to
come off as if I'm in stresswhen you listen to police radio
calls, especially with a lot ofrookies, what you'll hear is,
(13:24):
you know, they're nervous,they're amped up, and they sound
like the 12 year old version ofthemselves. They don't sound
like somebody that's calm andcomposed. So if you're doing a
negotiation, if you're selling acar, if you're talking to your
kids, you need to think if wewrote those words out, if the
teleprompter wrote them out,would there have been a question
mark after the end of it, orwould there have been an
(13:46):
exclamation point after the endof it? You know, if in those the
way we say, it can also lead toother inquiries. So if you were
talking about a negotiation, andyou were saying, I'm just under
a lot of pressure at work rightnow, and I mirror back to you
and I say, so you're under a lotof pressure. That's one way to
(14:07):
say it, and that's a statement,and it's going to get a yes or
yes or no answer if I say so,you're under a lot of pressure.
You see, I kind of went up alittle bit in my voice
inflection. People want toanswer a question, so what they
may say is, yeah, you know, man,I'm just I didn't hit my number
last month, and, you know, I'vegot some stuff going on at home.
Whatever the case may be, Iinstantly elicited two or three
(14:29):
different bits of information byhow I ended that question. But
that's usually not how I like todo it. Usually, if I'm not
eliciting and I want to soundconfident, I want to. It's like
when I say the word no, if I'mquestioning a bad guy, and I
say, did you do X, Y and Z, andthey said, No, it's almost like
(14:50):
they're asking the question tosee if I buy their their answer,
versus DID YOU DO THAT badthing? No. Well, that was with
an exclamation point. So if youwant conviction. Connection in
your communications. Think, ifsomebody was just listening to
this, would it sound as if I hadan exclamation point behind what
the word that I just spoke? Youknow, the analogy I like to give
(15:13):
is the old band, Milli Vanilli.
You know, they made it in the80s, right? I went to one of
their concerts, right? I went toone of their concerts. And for
your listeners that don't knowMilli Vanilli, the lyrics were
written by, I think farian washis name. He was a producer, and
he took a German model and aDutch model, and basically they
(15:33):
were great dancers, and hebasically created this image
where they weren't the singers.
They didn't write the music, andat the Grammy Awards, the DVD
kept sticking, and it all cameout, but they sold, I don't
know, 12, 15 million records,whatever the case may be,
because of the complete imagethe dancing, okay? It wasn't the
(15:55):
words, the singing was okay. Itwas the dancing. Once people
realise that, Oh, that wasn'treally them. The other band, the
actual Milli Vanilli, put theirmusic out, and nobody bought it
because they didn't have thatlast aspect of putting it all
together.
Agi Keramidas (16:13):
I do remember them. And then the real Milli
Vanilli remember any of the realone songs, but I remember a
couple of songs, of the theother one, thank you. This is
very useful, Brad. Let me ask. Iwill bring us to something,
(16:36):
let's say a bit more specific.
Now I read something, and itintrigued me that you wrote, you
said something about sales andinterrogation being related. So
I would like to hear more aboutthis.
Brad Beeler (16:53):
Yeah. So if you think about it, and if we go to
Cialdini principle, ArizonaState PhD, put out a book called
Influence, many, many years ago,sold millions and millions of
copies, but he looked at theprinciples of influence,
reciprocity, consistency. Itgoes on and on, seven to eight
principles, scarcity. We do thesame thing, and I don't want to
(17:14):
use the word sometimes the wordinterrogation gets a bad name. I
would say investigativeinterview, and I use the word
interrogation, but sometimes inthe public Nexus, it gets a
little because people think ofthe dark side of interrogation,
Agi Keramidas (17:26):
which we don't.
Thank you for thank you forclarifying that
Brad Beeler (17:29):
we we have conversations, and I never raise
my voice. I'm in, you know,personable, empathetic, but a
lot of people, you know, theHollywood version of
interrogation, you know, kicksin. So I'm selling a product.
You're selling a product. Peopleare selling something with their
kids every single day. It'sjust, I'm selling jail, okay?
(17:52):
I'm selling a timeshare for 15years, maybe in an eight by
eight cell that has allinclusive meals will provide you
know this, that's a hard thingto sell. Okay, but are there
certain things that I'm going todo? Yes, I'm going to prepare.
I'm going to know the casebacks. Do we think when you walk
on a car lot that they're notpreparing? I may provide them
(18:12):
food, water and drink. The samething's going to happen with
that car dealer. That's going tosay, Can I get you something to
drink? I'm going to give them apolygraph examination. They're
going to give you a test drive,okay? After the test drive,
okay, they're going to bring youback to the finance office. I'm
going to bring you maybe back tothe interview room to talk to
you about how you did poorly onthe polygraph. So selling is is
(18:36):
pretty universal. I think we weget we make it too complicated.
It's about connecting withpeople. It's about preparing
with people. It's providingabout what is in your best
interest. For me, I focus a lot,not on the what, but the why.
And if you can give the peoplewhy, they can make their own
decision on how it's in theirbest interest. So you tell
stories we've gotten away fromthat. We don't improv anymore.
(18:58):
We talk to people in delayedcommunications, text messages,
emails, and as a result, we havethe inability to do what we're
doing right now, where I cangauge in how you just responded,
oh, you gave me a minimalencourager. There. You shook
your head, yes. So we've lostthat ability. And you wonder,
why, when people get in a salesenvironment this current
(19:18):
generation, or they come in fora job interview, how there's
that delay and there's that deerin the headlights look because
they're not used to engaging inthose spontaneous
Communications.
Agi Keramidas (19:34):
Thank you. That is indeed. And since you brought
it up, let's I would like tohear a bit more about this lack
of the the other communicationelements that the emails and
texts that many people rely on,especially the younger
generations, if you havesomething perhaps. Again, I will
(20:00):
say the word practical forsomeone, perhaps, that they
should do in a better way, in animproved way.
Brad Beeler (20:09):
Yeah. So to go back first, when you talked about
your voice, there are tonnes ofapplications that you can get on
your iPhone or your Androidthat, literally, in five minutes
a day, can teach you to havebetter vocal range, so you make
yourself more interesting, theyactually will record how fast
you're speaking, because wetypically want to be about 130
words per minute, so that youget cognizant of that. So I'd
(20:32):
say, as far as voice, that'ssomething that you can
definitely do. Another thing isrecord yourself. So what I teach
a lot of my students, when I wasteaching at the federal
polygraph school here in theUnited States, is I would record
them just like we're in asituation right now, but I would
have them watch it without thevideo, and just have them listen
(20:54):
to themselves. And then what Iwould do is I'd turn the volume
down, I'd have them watchthemselves, and I say, Are you
congruent in your message?
Because you're looking down,you're trying to sound
confident. If I just listen toyou, I would say that's a
confident person. Or I would seeand they've got this body
language, but they're talkinglike this, you know. So that was
very eye opening, because a lotof people can't, in real time,
(21:19):
see what they're doing wrong,and just understand you don't
have to pick the right word,because the words are not as
important as how you look sayingthe word and how you sound
saying the word. So if you canmaster those, you don't have to
sit there and think most peoplehave about 25,000 words in their
(21:40):
brain. So think about the Thinkabout the software. Is that too
many people get into softwareproblem? Okay, they're thinking
about the perfect word versusworrying about the hardware.
Okay, I can hack the hardware alot easier than I can fix the
software. So if and thehardware, in my opinion, body
language and how we speak ismore important. Who remembers
(22:01):
the voice of Darth Vader? Okay?
Everyone? James Earl Jones,right? You put anyone else in
that part, and that's not DarthVader. So how we sound is, I
don't want to say it's a lifehack, but if you're going to do
something for 10 minutes a day,your voice can be improved
(22:22):
drastically.
Agi Keramidas (22:25):
Excellent. Thank you for that's very useful and
very practical. As a matter offact, I was, you know, sometimes
you have some ads that come upon your Instagram feed, and
this, I have kept getting that.
So now that you've alsomentioned it, I think it's time
for me to check it out. Sothanks a lot.
Brad Beeler (22:46):
Yeah, try it out seven days. Usually they give
you for free. You know, try itout.
Agi Keramidas (22:51):
I will most certainly, Brad, let me ask
something a little bit differentwhen we are in let's say, or
when someone is in a high stakessituation. Let's say it is
negotiating a deal, for example,or an important leadership
(23:11):
meeting. How can we tell whensomeone is is not being honest
is and what's the best way torespond, or, you know, respond
to that?
Brad Beeler (23:27):
Yeah, it's a great question, and obviously it's
dependent upon culture,circumstance, context in some
respects. But let's say I'm in abusiness meeting and somebody is
talking about quarterly earningsor a product, whatever the case
may be, I would love and it'samazing what's out there about
people. So in my preparation,I'm going to see if there's any
(23:48):
online one what's out there?
Because everybody doesn't puttheir diaries under their bed
anymore. They put their diariesonline, right? So I'm going to
do my preparation. I'm going tofind out, do I have any other
instances of this personspeaking in similar situations,
so that I can establish thatbaseline. And anybody that says,
hey, if you touch your nose oryou do this or eye contact, that
there's no one characteristicthat denotes if somebody's being
(24:13):
honest. But the way I like toview it as this is when someone
is in an open you give them anopen ended question. It's kind
of like a dog off a leash, andthey can take you wherever they
want to take you, and they canomit whatever they don't want to
say that's negative in their youknow, in their life. So when
they're off the leash andthey're giving me a statement,
(24:35):
I'm looking for words like sothen next, after that,
transitional type words that Iwill then take little notes, and
I'll be like, okay, and thenwhat I'll do is I'll ask
specific questions around thosetime frames to try to determine
now I'm giving you a yes or noquestion, and the easiest way to
explain this is, if I ask you ayes or no question, I should get
(24:57):
a yes. Or no response, and Ishould get it in a timely
fashion. If I the first thingthat I look for is delay,
because it's the easiest to seeis that if I ask you, did you
shoot that man? It's pretty easyfor you to say no. If I ask you,
did you shoot that man? Andthere's a long delay, and you
(25:18):
repeat the question, you'rebuying yourself time, is it 100%
Absolutely not. But it's a hugered flag, because that was an
easy question, and you shouldhave been able to give me an
easy response. If, if I give youa yes or no answer and you say,
Well, usually, Well, normally,for the most part, anything with
an ly exclusive qualifiers, bigred flags for me, if I ask you a
(25:38):
yes or no question and youconfront me, how dare you ask
me, or you spice it up with, I'mthe most religious person in the
world. Why would I ever do that?
It's not 100% but I'm asking youa yes or no question, why do you
feel like you need to helpyourself out and get you know
external validity in thatquestion? Why do you have to
(26:00):
shroud yourself in religion withthat you know, a lot of times
people will do a truth sandwich,where they'll have truthful
information, because that'slowers the cortisol of line and
the fear of lying. Then theythrow the lie in there, and then
they get another truthfulstatement, so that, because it's
uncomfortable to lie. So that'swhat a lot of times people will
do. You can also subtly,sometimes see this, where people
(26:24):
are shaking their head yes andthey say no, or they're shaking
their head no and they say yes.
You very rarely see it, but whenyou do the body language is what
I'm going to trust, not thespoken word. Many, many times
it's a disconnect, and then theshifting vocal inflection that
we talked about earlier, as faras no kind of said as a
question. So I see that a lotwith my kids, did you clean your
(26:45):
room? Yeah, yes, or did you doyou? Did you get all your
homework done? I got all my mathhomework done. Well, that was
very specific, right? Did youget all your homework done? Oh,
no, I still got some English,right? So those are little I
hope there's some somethingthere that somebody can unpack
is that you look for clusters,you look for multiple things.
(27:07):
You look for things you can honein on and ask additional
questions. But if you look atwhat's out there on Tiktok and
Instagram on, yeah, I touched mynose. I did this, I crossed my
arms. Those are situationalfactors that in the time could
happen for a lot of
Agi Keramidas (27:24):
different reasons. This is great. I got
the from that because it wasn'tit. I think many things someone
can pick, for me was thehesitation before answering what
should be a simple yes or noanswer. And that's something
that, of course, if someonehesitates answering every
question, I suppose, depends onthe person also Yes, baseline,
(27:49):
exactly. Brad, I want to Well,it's been a truly fascinating
conversation, the topic ofcommunication and connection,
because, in the end, it has todo with connection. You
mentioned influence all thesethings. You mentioned examples
(28:10):
with the children, our children,all these things are, I believe,
foundational in our Well, ourexperience of life. Also, the
better we are at communicating,the more we can also do as I
will start wrapping things up,the first thing I want to ask
(28:33):
you is, where would you like todirect the listener who has
enjoyed this conversation andwants to find out more about
Brad Beeler (28:42):
you, sure I'm on LinkedIn and Instagram. Brad
Beeler, 1865 on both and becauseI'm writing a new book, I had to
come up with a website thatshould be out here next week, or
at least by the time the episodedrops. It's Bradley beeler.com
that'd probably be the best wayto get a hold of me.
Agi Keramidas (29:04):
Thank you. And I have two quick questions, which
I always ask my guests, whatdoes personal development mean
to you?
Brad Beeler (29:16):
Interesting for me, personal development is I love
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and I wantto view life as Brazilian Jiu
Jitsu. And what I mean by thatis, there's a belt structure.
It's you start out as a whitebelt, and you learn a lot,
really, really quick, and thenyou start learning less things
(29:37):
as you go on, you become a bluebelt, a purple belt. And now,
instead of learning 10 Things topractice, I learn one thing a
week. And that's a lot aboutlife, right? We learn a lot in
our adolescent years, or a lotin our college years, and then
we're like, we got it allfigured out. And that's a lot of
times when people quit jiu jitsubecause they quit learning
things. So what I say to a lotof people in my generation that
(29:58):
think they know it all is youdon't. Built and personal
development for me is being 1%better every day, learning one
thing every day that I can makeactionable. But most
importantly, I've realised youcan only be you can only control
what you do in personaldevelopment, for me is providing
my skill set and the mistakesthat I've made to the people
(30:18):
that I'm teaching, thosemetaphorical white belts, so
they can maybe change theirtrajectory and level up quicker
than I did, so I can hopefullymentor them so they don't have
to go through some of thechallenges and lessons learned
that I did and maybe lose out ona case like I did. So personal
development for me is helpingthe next generation. You
Agi Keramidas (30:44):
Agi and a hypothetical question, if you
could go back in time and meetyour 18 year old self, what's
one piece of advice you wouldgive him?
Brad Beeler (30:56):
Man, you're throwing some heavy, heavy
hitters at us. I would be, Idon't. I don't think I would
give myself much, because I'velearned more from my mistakes.
And I know, I don't know ifthat's a cop out answer, but I
truly believe in the butterflyeffect that one thing can affect
something else. Is that mistakesI made or places I didn't go to
school, you know, or I playedsoccer in college here, versus
(31:20):
not is the only reason that Iwas in this situation and threw
a snowball at my buddy, and thesnowball missed him and hit my
wife, my future wife that I'vebeen married to for 27 years. So
if I gave myself advice, itwould completely change that
trajectory. I would just sayyour last name is everything,
(31:41):
and don't go for the quicksuccess, right? I mean, you like
running life is a marathon,right? It's not a 5k It's not a
sprint, it's a marathon. Andthat, I would tell my 18 year
old self, pace yourself, right?
You don't run that first mile ofthe marathon at a 5k pace,
right? So pace yourself. Get 1%better every day, and it's kind
(32:03):
of like the stock market. If youinvest in an index fund at the
age of 18, you're going to be amulti millionaire by the time
you're 50. So invest inyourself. Get 1% better. Your
last name is everything. Don'tever do anything that would
sacrifice that, but you know, soI hope I gave you a little bit
(32:23):
of both there, but I'd be verycareful about the advice that I
gave myself, my 18 year oldself,
Agi Keramidas (32:29):
of course. And actually now you gave me a
handle here, which I'm going topick. I don't know if you
probably did it inadvertently.
You said something about theheavy heaters. Or I do have one
more question I would like toask to end up you have spent
decades reading people underpressure. What have this
(32:50):
experience taught you aboutmastering your own inner state
in, you know, this high stressenvironments or in a high stress
situation,
Brad Beeler (33:04):
yeah, don't, don't react. And what I mean by that
is, if you think from aprotective standpoint. So Secret
Service, we do protection. Inever, and what we're taught is
never let people see you sweatoutwardly, because then it's
going to cause fear amongeverybody because they're
looking at you, right? It's kindof like a flight attendant. If a
flight attendant is on a bumpyflight, what's that? What are
(33:27):
they taught to do? Right? Thisis normal. What are they maybe
thinking internally? Oh, dang,right. But if they show that
every 300 people on that planeis gonna Oh, my God, we're going
down, right? So I would saydon't, don't expose that
negative emotion or thatcontempt is but it's sometimes
it's hard, because I've talkedto hundreds of paedophiles, and
(33:50):
obviously their behaviour isdisgusting, but if I show that
and I and I'm not curious andI'm judgmental, they're going to
shut down on me. So I always amextremely curious about leisure
activities. So if I was talkingto you, I would focus on your
marathons and how that journeycame about and what you get out
of it. And, you know, I wouldlet you bathe in that be. And I
(34:13):
wouldn't try to one up you. Youwouldn't say 5k and say, Oh, I
did a half marathon. And you'dsay, I did a half marathon. I'd
say, Oh yeah, I did a fullmarathon. And you said, Oh, I
did London, yeah, I did Chicago.
And then you say, I did a halfIronman, well, I did a full
Ironman, yeah, it's we get intothis tit for tat and modern
communication where I bring itup. I'll let you talk about it.
You know, I may ask about yourshoes. What kind of nutrition
(34:34):
you use on the course? And as acourse of that, you're going to
start man, Brad kind of knows alittle bit about this, and you
asked me the question thenabout, so do you run so too many
times in conversation, and I'msure you get this is you bring
it up, and somebody instantlythinks that they're building
rapport with you by saying theydid the same thing. Nope, you're
(34:56):
just being a jerk. You. Right?
So sorry. I took that questionand kind of turned a little bit
I thought, I think that that'ssuch an important lesson. And,
you know, I think we usemetaphors a lot when we're
talking to people, and I alwaysneed to do the preparation. So
for you, I would use metaphorsabout dentistry. I would use
(35:16):
metaphors about, you know,running and taking care of
yourself and personaldevelopment. And you know that
life is a journey, that life isa marathon, that we have this
many books of life I would talkabout, maybe if you were a bad
guy, I'd say, look, we'veidentified the problem here.
Similar to dentistry, we take abite, ring, X ray, we see where
there's a problem, and what dowe need to do? We need to go fix
(35:37):
that problem. Because if wedon't fix the problem, John,
we're next thing. You know,we're doing a root canal. I
mean, sounds like it sounds likea goofy metaphor, but for you, I
could not be talking about thecrime, but I could use dentistry
as the metaphor to connectbrother.
Agi Keramidas (35:55):
I want to thank you so much for this
conversation. It wasfascinating. I appreciate you. I
want to wish you the very bestwhen spreading this empowering
message of you know how toimprove our communication. I
will leave it to you for yourparting words. My
Brad Beeler (36:16):
parting words are a great interview, and you threw
me three or four questions thatI've never been asked before. So
it's like anything else, right?
Is that to be better atpodcasting or communication, you
can't do the same thing everyday. When I do jujitsu, I like
to go to different schools,because you're not in this echo
chamber. You get somewhere elseand you try something else. So
you threw me in a different echochamber here today, which is
(36:36):
always good. You showed me somedifferent things. I have to
respond to them. It's going tomake me 1% better today. So
mission accomplished.
Agi Keramidas (36:47):
Thank you for listening to this conversation
with Brad Beeler. I hope it hasgiven you a fresh perspective on
how to navigate difficultconversations and create
meaningful connections. If thisconversation inspired or helped
you. If it gave you somethingmeaningful, consider supporting
the show. Just visit personaldevelopment mastery
(37:10):
podcast.com/support or tap thelink in the episode description.
As a thank you, I will send youa personal, small gift and
mention you in a future episode.
Thank you for being part of thejourney until next time stand
out. Don't fit in.
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