October 20, 2025 • 38 mins
Are your communication habits secretly sabotaging your leadership potential and personal relationships?
In today's fast-paced, distraction-filled world, mastering communication isn't just a nice-to-have — it's essential for thriving at work and home. If you’ve ever felt misunderstood, emotionally reactive, or disconnected despite professional success, this episode reveals how self-awareness is the linchpin to improving how you connect, lead, and relate.
- Discover the three key areas of self-awareness that can radically transform your communication and deepen trust in any relationship.
- Learn the most common bad habits that hurt your communication, and what to do instead for connection and credibility.
- Hear practical tools and real-life strategies for staying emotionally grounded and present in even the most stressful conversations.
Tune in now to learn how developing communication mastery through self-awareness can elevate every area of your life and leadership.
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KEY POINTS AND TIMESTAMPS:
02:19 - Practical Communication Improvement Strategies
04:13 - Understanding Self-Awareness in Communication
08:58 - Communication Habits that Help and Hinder
14:43 - Managing Emotional Triggers and Maintaining Self-Awareness
19:11 - Personal Background: Influence of Father's Coaching Work
24:01 - Reconnecting with Purpose and Fulfillment through Communication
27:32 - Book and Resources Introduction
29:33 - Personal Development Philosophy
35:44 - Closing Insights
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MEMORABLE QUOTE:
"Seek out diverse perspectives and stay open to feedback that challenges your assumptions."
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VALUABLE RESOURCES:
Michael's website: https://www.delisserconsulting.com/
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Coaching with Agi: https://personaldevelopmentmasterypodcast.com/mentor
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🎙️ Want to be a guest on the podcast?
Message Agi on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/member/personaldevelopmentmastery
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Personal development interviews exploring key principles of personal development, self improvement, self mastery, personal growth, self-discipline, and personal improvement — all supporting a life of purpose and fulfilment.
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Personal development podcast offering self-mastery and actionable wisdom for personal growth and living with purpose and fulfilment.
A self improvement podcast with inspirational and actionable insights to help you cultivate emotional intelligence, build confidence, and embrace your purpose. Discover practical tools and success habits for self help, motivation, self mastery, mindset shifts, growth mindset, self-discipline, meditation, wellness, spirituality, personal mastery, self growth, and personal improvement. Personal development interviews and mindset podcast content empowering entrepreneurs, leaders, and seekers to nurture mental health, commit to self-improvement, and create meaningful success and lasting happiness.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Agi Keramidas (00:00):
The hidden link between self awareness and
effective communication.
Discover how self awarenessshapes the way you communicate
and leadwelcome to Personal Development
mastery. The podcast forintelligent, busy professionals
(00:21):
who have achieved success butfeel something is missing and
are seeking clarity, purpose andfulfilment. Each episode helps
you grow by inspiring alignedaction through practical
insights you can actually use. Iam your host, Agi Keramidas,
join us every Monday for aninsightful conversation with a
(00:44):
guest, and each Thursday for ashorter episode where I reflect
and share with you. This isepisode 546, if you are looking
to improve your communicationand strengthen your self
awareness, the followingconversation explores how small
conscious changes can elevateevery area of your life,
(01:07):
personal relationships,professional success and
leadership. Before we start, ifyou resonate with the topics we
discuss on the podcast and youare navigating a transition, or
perhaps feeling called to a nextchapter that is more purposeful
and intentional. I offer one toone coaching and mentoring to
(01:29):
help you get clear, reconnectwith what truly matters and move
ahead with confidence to explorewhat that could look like for
you. Visit personal developmentmastery podcast.com/mentor, or
just tap the link in the shownotes. Now let's get started. My
guest today is Michael de Lisa.
(01:56):
Michael You are a leadershipcoach, author, speaker and
communication expert, you arepassionate about helping leaders
worldwide accelerate theirsuccess by building self
awareness, unlearning poorhabits and mastering
communication in the age of AI,Michael is a pleasure to have
(02:18):
you to the show.
Michael DeLisser (02:19):
Welcome. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.
I'm
Agi Keramidas (02:23):
looking forward to exploring with you, mastering
our communication and alsoenhance our self awareness and
the connection between thesetwo. What I would like to start
I'm going to start straight divein, and I will ask you for a
busy, professional listeningright now, what's one practical
(02:48):
change they can implement todaythat can instantly change their
communication make it moreeffective?
Michael DeLisser (02:58):
Yeah, and I'm glad you opened by talking about
the connection between selfawareness and communication
skills, because the number onething that will allow you to
improve your communicationskills is developing very high
self awareness and that thathappens when you get feedback
from others, when you start totake the time to reflect on
(03:19):
communication and see what wentwell and where you could have
done differently. So but thenumber one thing when I'm
teaching communication is Ialways start with self
awareness. And as you mentionedin the introduction, part of
what I do with a lot of peopleis helping them unlearn
ineffective communication habitsand and they have to be self
aware to make that happen. Andonce you make people self aware,
(03:41):
they actually can make reallygood progress on improving or
eliminating those habits thatare holding them back, either in
their personal relationships orat work. So the most important
thing overall they can do isreally start to ask questions,
get feedback from people. Thebook I just released has a
number of self assessments init, but if you could do anything
to increase your self awareness,then you can target the one or
(04:04):
two things that will have thebiggest overall positive impact
on your success at work and inyour relationships at home.
Agi Keramidas (04:13):
Tell me when you say, Now, self awareness in this
context, what shall because forsomeone listening, this might be
a bit abstract, self awareness,nice expression, but what does
it mean, especially in thiscontext?
Michael DeLisser (04:31):
So the areas that I usually focus on, there's
three of them, one is emotionalintelligence and emotional
intelligence, one of the fourareas of emotional intelligence
is self awareness, right? And inthat context, it includes, are
you aware of what triggers youemotionally? What are the things
that cause you to reactemotionally, as opposed to
(04:51):
rationally? In situations withothers? And we've all been in
situations where we maybe getangry or start to. React and end
up saying things that we didn'tintend to say, or comes across
in a way that's ineffective. Sonumber one would be being aware
of what triggers you and andstarting to develop a higher
awareness of how you react incertain situations and finding
(05:15):
ways to proactively preventyourself from doing so. So
that's one the second area ofself awareness that's really key
is, what are your currentcommunication habits, and how do
they help you or hurt you inyour relationships and your
effectiveness at work? So forexample, a lot of us develop
communication habits at a veryyoung age, and it's from part of
(05:37):
our family communication I callthem culturally learned
communication behaviours orhabits. And for example, let's
say you grew up in a largefamily, and there's six kids
around the table, and you're allcompeting for attention, you
know, with your parents at thedinner table, a lot of people
bring that habit of interruptingothers to try to get attention
into the workplace, but in theworkplace, it doesn't work, or
(06:00):
they bring it into theirrelationships, you know, and
they as adults, they end upinterrupting people a lot, and
if you're not aware that you'reinterrupting people, then you
end up potentially hurting trustor hurting the relationship that
whoever you're speaking with. Sodeveloping a very high awareness
of any communication habits youhave that are holding you back
is also important. And then ifyou have any communications that
(06:21):
are really effective, leveragingthose using them more often,
that's also a good thing. Forexample, if you are a really
good listener, really maketaking a moment to be 100%
present and listening reallywell to the person and
responding in ways to prove thatyou heard them. So that would be
the second area. The third area,I would say, self awareness is
(06:43):
around how your personalityneeds impact how you come across
to others. And so I work with anumber of different personality
tools, but more often than not,our personalities dictate how we
come across to others and wherewe're strong and where we're not
so strong in our relationshipswith others. For example, if
you're a very structured orresults driven person, you may
(07:04):
be very task focused, but youmay not be as you may not show
as much empathy towards others.
Similarly, if you're very moreof a people person, and you're
very you know, you show empathyand you're very good in that
regard, you may not be verystructured or results driven,
and and you may end up notgetting to outcomes, because,
you know, you're not as focusedon the results. So there's,
(07:25):
there's all these littleelements of personality as well.
But if you could be becomereally aware of how your
personality helps your personalrelationships and where it might
hinder them, if you can reallybe good at understanding what
triggers you emotionally andcontrolling that, and if you can
manage your interpersonalhabits, any communication
habits, and eliminate the onesthat are hurting trust, those
(07:46):
are the three things I wouldthink would have the biggest
impact.
Agi Keramidas (07:52):
This is great and very multifaceted like that. I
will focus out of you know, asas important as the first thing
you mentioned about being awareof what triggers you
emotionally, that's, I thinkthat deserves a whole other
conversation to go through. So Iwill stick with the second thing
(08:16):
you said about the being awareof our communication habits, you
said, and also, you know, thelistening skills. Can you give
some examples of these kinds ofhabits, of communication habits,
(08:36):
perhaps an example of somethingthat hurts our communication
sure people do it, you know,without even realising, and
perhaps something that improves.
Or the communication, again,some people might be doing it
without knowing. So, so we canhave a little bit of two
different ones.
Michael DeLisser (08:58):
Sure, there's, I actually have a self
assessment that I use thatincludes the, probably the 15
most common habits that peoplehave that hurt, trust with
others and and I could, I couldgive you a few of the ones right
off of that list, but one ofthem would be not being present,
right? So day, you know,daydreaming, thinking of other
(09:21):
things, multitasking, those kindof things. And look in today's
world, we are being bombarded byso much information, and our
phone pings at us, and we gettext alerts and all these
things. And when you're in aconversation with someone and
you're sitting there looking atthose instead of focusing on
them and giving them yourattention, the message you're
sending to them is, you're notimportant enough for my full
(09:43):
attention. And that's a reallybad message, and it hurts trust.
So one habit is being 100%present and and giving the other
person your full attention andnot allowing distractions to
interfere. Another one would bereacting emotionally in case
situation. Conversations askinglike sometimes based on our
(10:03):
personality, we will, we will domost of it talking in a
conversation, and not give theother person enough time to
speak. That's another one. So ifyou have an extroverted
personality type, frequently,people will dominate
conversations in meetings,dominate conversations at home
and the other person will end upfeeling like you're not
(10:23):
interested in what they have tosay. So that's another potential
one that I work on with peopleinterrupting others. Is a common
one, perhaps giving too muchinformation instead of staying
focused. You know, peoplesometimes their minds wander.
But there's, there's a wholebunch of them that I could, I
could rattle off judging peoplementally while they're speaking,
(10:45):
is another one. You know, we endup hearing things and we may
disagree with what they say, andbecause of that, we end up
stopping listening and beingmore judgmental in our brains.
So there's, there's quite a few,and what I do is I work with
individuals on whichever one, Ihelp them increase their self
awareness about which one theyuse the most or which is having
(11:05):
the most damage. And then I helpthem reduce the use of that.
Agi Keramidas (11:10):
It's great. It is indeed a matter of self
awareness. So can you give usalso a few of the other side of
the spectrum, some of the goodcommunication habits that,
especially some that peoplemight be doing, you know,
naturally or because without, Imean, unconsciously, without
(11:36):
paying attention to it.
Michael DeLisser (11:38):
Yeah, I can tell you. I'll give you one for
me. Example. This is a lesson Ilearned very early in life. My
my mother would not let me lie,right? I mean, she would, she
would be. She would always holdme accountable for the things
that I didn't, that I did,right? And so sometimes we go
into workplace setting and oreven at home, I did this in, you
(12:02):
know, in high school, you know,I'd be honest if I did something
wrong, I would just say, Yes, Idid that. You know, I owned up
to it right away. But when, whenyou do that, I mean, I've had
people later say, I appreciatethe fact you're willing to just
be honest with me about that,you know. So sometimes we learn
our values drive our behaviours.
If your value is honesty andintegrity and being
straightforward with what you'resaying. You will tend to do that
(12:23):
in your conversations. Someother things. Sometimes we
naturally have learned the artof listening from our family
members, you know, so givingsomeone their full attention,
making them feel valued.
Sometimes, those are things welearn early in life as well, and
we don't even realise we'redoing it. We're just being a
(12:43):
good listener. And someone willsay, Hey, you're a great
listener, and you don't evenknow why, because you just you
had good role models thatinfluenced you and in developing
those listening skills, notinterrupting. You know that the
opposite of the other one Imentioned even the the ability
to ask good questions. You know,sometimes people inherently are
just better at doing thatbecause they're genuinely
(13:05):
interested in what the otherperson is saying. And that,
again, could be a habit learnedearly in life.
Agi Keramidas (13:13):
Thank you. That's it's I personally find it always
fascinating when I hear about,you know, things like this that
can improve or hurt thecommunication, and often people
do them without realising. Andactually, let's, let's stick to
(13:35):
the we've mentioned, selfawareness so many times already.
And as you know, Michael, it'sanother thing. It's one thing to
talk about how nice it is to beself aware, and it's another
thing in the, let's say, theheat of a conversation, or if
(13:57):
there is an argument that isabout to happen, or something
that is stressful. You know, thesituations can be either in
personal or professionalsetting, sure, but when emotions
or these kinds of intensethoughts start coming,
(14:19):
maintaining that level of selfawareness can be a bit more
challenging. I will say it likethat. So can you offer some
practical advice that one canheighten their self awareness in
situations that you know, thereis stress, there is which is
(14:40):
actually when you need this selfawareness the most,
Michael DeLisser (14:43):
yes, yes. And what's interesting is, you know,
to be able to catch yourself inthe moment, you have to develop
that self awareness. It's kindof a prerequisite. You have to
know what triggers you, or youhave to know what changes are
occurring in your body at thatmoment. Uh, you know, do you
feel your blood pressure goingup? Are you starting to, you
(15:03):
know, when you when you feelthose moments? Can you catch
yourself and be aware thatthat's happening at that exact
moment? I mean, that's thebiggest thing. So knowing what
triggers you, we talked aboutthat earlier, but a lot of
times, the people that you spendthe most time with can tell you
exactly what triggers you, orthey can tell you they can tell
when you're starting to getemotional, because they've been
around you enough. Around youenough to see it. So having some
(15:24):
trusting relationships peopleyou really know will give you
honest feedback and helpingthem, inviting them to give you
the feedback when it'shappening, at the moment it's
happening, or even advance. Say,Hey, in these situations, this
is when I see you becomingreactive. Then, of course, once
you've gotten good at knowing ordetecting when it's going to
happen or catching yourself inthe moment, you have to have an
(15:47):
alternative behaviour to replaceit with right? And that's the
big challenges. Is, once youknow what the issue is or what
triggers you, how do you getyourself to calm down again?
There's, there's many techniquesfor doing this. You know, the
one that I like to use. I callit, don't take the bait. And I
literally, I think of, I thinkof a fish looking at a fish hook
(16:08):
with with bait on it, you know.
And I am the fish, right? And soI have to when, as I look at
this, I have to recognisesomething in this conversation
is baiting me. It's making mewant to bite on that hook, and
if you bite on it, you getreeled into a very big argument,
you know, or you get into a bigyou know. So my if I can feel
myself getting triggered, thefirst thing I say to myself is,
(16:30):
Don't take the bait. Don't getpulled into an argument. Another
thing that I might do in thatsituation is I might stop and
say, You know what, I'm startingto feel a little emotional right
now, and I don't want to say ordo anything that is going to
hurt our relationship or ouroutcomes, so I'm going to take a
moment and step away. Somepeople will just take a moment
to breathe. But you you have tounderstand yourself well enough
(16:54):
to know what technique is goingto work for you in those exact
situations. And look, if youdon't handle the situation
Great. One of the best thingsyou could do is go back to the
person after you've had time tocalm down and think about it and
say, Hey, I really am not proudof the way I behaved a little
bit earlier. I allowed myself toget emotional, and I'd like to
pick up that conversation again,because it's important for me to
(17:15):
have a good relationship withyou, and I feel like that. Last
conversation didn't help withthat. So would you mind talking
about it now that I'm notfeeling as emotional? So there's
a number of different ways to dothat, but but the key is knowing
and knowing how your bodyreacts, and being able to react
in that moment to catch yourselfhaving an emotional reaction,
and then you can choose thedifferent techniques that work
(17:38):
the best for you,
Agi Keramidas (17:42):
this is very useful. And you know, you
mentioned some practical things,like the breathing I liked very
much, the approach that you hadto directly explain to the other
person that look right nowbecause of this, or I'm getting
emotional, or whatever otherelse, real reason there is there
(18:07):
I'd rather not have this rightnow. I think this explanation
and this honesty really buildsthe, you know, avoiding an
escalation or something, or atleast taking it or postpone it,
(18:28):
perhaps, yeah, because you'restill going to have the
conversation at some point. ButI liked very much.
Michael DeLisser (18:34):
Yes, I was just gonna add one other
thought, one other thing youcould do if you are going into a
conversation and you happen toknow that there's a chance it
could become emotional, orthere's a chance the other
person might not react well,doing some visualisations in
your own brain about how thisconversation might go and what
you might do if you feeltriggered, or what might trigger
(18:56):
the other person you know,mentally preparing yourself And
visualising a good outcome andvisualising yourself staying
calm. That's a proactive way ofpreparing for those kind of
conversations. If you happen toknow that there's a chance it
could become emotional.
Agi Keramidas (19:11):
Thank you for that. That's it's always great
to add that in a toolbox ofcommunication, especially before
a conversation, that it isuseful to practice it, and now
that you said it, it serves,also personally for me, as a
(19:32):
good reminder. So thank you alsofor that. I want to go, Michael
back for a little bit. I willdigress for a bit, and we'll
come back and to thecommunication. But there was,
you know, from when I wasreading your story, I got
(19:54):
fascinated by the fact that, youknow, when you were a teenager,
I. You sat with your father, whowas a coach, and he was coaching
fortune, 100 executives that youknow were had communication
problems and they were laid off,or something like that. So I
(20:15):
wanted to hear a bit aboutbecause after all this time,
this A and this event, or thisseries of events, influenced you
into your work and your, youknow, passion and mission. So I
wanted to hear a bit about howit shaped you at that time,
yeah, and then we'll come backto what we were saying,
Michael DeLisser (20:38):
No. And you know, the experience of watching
my father coach fired executivesreally changed my life. I mean,
it gave me purpose. It helped meunderstand the importance of
strong communication skills.
Because nearly every one ofthese executives he was
coaching, they did not get firedbased on their technical skills.
They got fired based on theirlack of communication skills or
(20:59):
communication mistakes, and I'llgive you an example of how this
happens to all of us. You know,when you think about it, in
jobs, people get promoted basedon their technical skills, but
the higher you go in anorganisation, the more important
it becomes to have communitystrong communication skills. So
what was happening is theseindividuals were getting
promotions, and they were movingup the ladder without getting
(21:20):
adequate communication skillstraining, and because of that,
that's what ended up holdingthem back in their careers, is
their lack of effectivecommunication. And so for me to
see these very high levelexecutives struggling with basic
communication skills that I tookfor granted because my dad
taught them in our house, youknow, it made me realise that
that, you know, many timescompanies inadvertently set up
(21:43):
people for for failure by notgiving them that kind of
training and and then I evenrealised that all of the things
that these, these executives areworking on are just as relevant
in our personal lives. You know,they that, you know, when
they're constantly interruptingor they're saying things that
are making other people angry,or whatever it might be doing at
work, the bad habit that gotthem fired, these are the same
(22:06):
things that hurt our personalrelationships. So I started to
realise that if I can reallyhelp people improve their
communication, I can improvetheir lives at home, I can help
them improve their relationshipswith their spouses and their
kids and their families and Ican also help them be better
leaders in the workplace. So Istarted to realise that this is
a incredibly powerful thing andand with the age of AI coming
(22:28):
and technical skills beingreplaced by more and more
artificial intelligence, itbecomes even more important,
because the things that willmake people stand out is their
human and people skills, becausethey need to get things done
through others and and technicalskills are going to become less
and less critical as you gethigher in an organisation. So
everything about that experienceand watching it just made me
(22:51):
realise there's a strong need inthis world for to help people
communicate more effectively,both at work and at home,
Agi Keramidas (23:01):
absolutely 100% Thank you, Michael, let me ask
you. I'm going to come back tothe communication, but I want to
ask something specific, orrather, for a specific kind of
person that is probablylistening right now, and the
(23:24):
person I'm talking about issomeone who is, you know,
successful, has achievedexternal success in life, but
finds themselves, you Know,unfulfilled or disconnected to
some level. For that person, howcan improving their
(23:47):
communication skills help them,you know, perhaps reconnect with
that meaning or within theirwork, in their fulfilment? I
hope my question makes sense?
Michael DeLisser (24:01):
Yeah, no, it does make sense. And I think
more often than not, peopleforget that how we communicate
with ourselves is just asimportant as how we communicate
with others and and the wholeconversation going on in your
head about not feelingfulfilled, maybe making
judgments about yourself thatare negative judgments, you
know, sometimes those arelearned behaviours, you know,
(24:22):
those those things where we havea negative conversation, where
we're criticising ourselves, butto really be able to get beyond
that, it helps if you take thetime to really become clear on
kind of your purpose or yourvalues and reconnecting with
those things. Because whensomeone is is not feeling
fulfilled more often than not,it's because they're not, and if
(24:45):
it's work related, they're notdoing work that allows them to
feel like they're contributingand making a difference to the
greater good. If it's in apersonal life, it might be, you
know, that they're they'relacking, you know, the closeness
of relationships and things likethat that that make them feel
Agi. Isolated or lonely. Soultimately, the thing that I do,
and I've done this a lot withpeople both transitioning to a
(25:07):
new career, or people who arejust graduating college, and I
worked a lot with MBA studentswho were trying to figure out
what they wanted to do withtheir lives, you know, they got
this education, but they don'tknow what to do it. And I focus
them very clearly on what arethe things that you feel most
passionate about, you know, andand it doesn't necessarily have
to be just work related things.
It could be things in a personalline. And then what are the
(25:29):
things you're best at? And thenyou if you could find a career
that allows you to do whatyou're passionate about and what
you're best at, it puts you in aposition to want to get up every
day and go to work becauseyou're excited, because you're
making a difference in doingwhat you love and doing what
you're good at, similarly, andjust life in general. If you can
find ways, if you're clear onwhat your values are, find ways
(25:51):
to live those values, it couldbe volunteering. It could be
becoming part of somethingbigger than you that is making a
difference in the world, but butmore often than not, people in
their lives never stop toreflect on those things that are
important to them. They don'ttake the time to think about
what you know. What is mypurpose? What are the things I
love to do? What are the thingsthat would make me feel
(26:12):
fulfilled? And when the day isover, I will feel like I did
something worthwhile today, andI felt like I made a difference,
and I could feel good aboutmyself. People don't take the
time to do that, and when youdo, take the time to do that,
and then intentionally, daily,try to find ways to do that.
Even if your work doesn't allowyou to do it, you can find ways
outside of work to contributeand make you feel like you're
(26:35):
hitting on that purpose. Sooverall, I think that getting in
touch with your values andliving them will do more to help
you and taking the time tofigure out what your values are
if you haven't already donethat, that'll do more to help
you be able to focus your energyin ways that allow you to feel
better about yourself and yourdirection and The difference
(26:56):
you're making.
Agi Keramidas (27:00):
That's, I believe, always a good reminder
to you know, take the time toreflect and understand our
values and what's important tous. Michael, you mentioned your
book earlier. I wanted to askyou, where would you like to
(27:21):
direct the listener of thisconversation that has found
this? What you have said veryuseful so far. What's the next
place to go?
Michael DeLisser (27:32):
So the name of the book is leadership
accelerators, and the subtitleis high impact communication
skills that that strengthenresults and relationships, and
the book is the purpose of thebook is to help people work on
their self awareness and thecommunication skills would be
most valuable for them. So Ibasically focus on I give them
(27:54):
self assessments. I give themactivities they can do they can
immediately turn around andapply the their increased self
awareness and find ways toimprove their skills in the
areas that are most important.
So the book itself is availableon Amazon. You can go to my
website if you wanted toactually see the or get the link
there. But my website is my lastname.com, delicr.com, and if you
(28:16):
D, E, L, i, s, s, 2s, s, e,r.com, and you could go and
check out the book. The wholepurpose of the book was to give
people the tools to be able tohelp themselves. Improving
communication. It's great tohone relationships. It's great
at work. It is geared towardsleaders. But, you know, my
(28:37):
personal feeling is we are allleaders in our in our personal
lives as well. You know, ifyou're leading your family, if
you're in your community,there's all sorts of ways, but
the communication skills that Icover, the self awareness I
cover, are the same at work andat home, and they're just as
valuable in most situations.
Absolutely.
Agi Keramidas (28:57):
And I'm glad you mentioned the self leadership,
because it is something thatoften, when one looks at, let's
say, a book about leadership,they might miss that element of
self leadership, of leadershipthat applies to all. Michael, I
(29:18):
have some questions that as westart to wrap up this
conversation today, I have someconversations I always ask my
guest, and the first one is,what does personal development
mean to you?
Michael DeLisser (29:33):
For me, it's about understanding yourself
better and learning to have agood relationship with yourself
in a way that allows you to toshow up to others and make a
difference externally, you know.
So, you know, I mean theintroduction you talked about me
being an expert. I rarely willdescribe myself as an expert,
(29:54):
because I feel like, for me, I'mconstantly thriving to be better
at. What I do. And expert,sounds like a destination, but
it's really a journey, right?
And we have to keep, keeptrying. So personal development
is about being clear on whereyou are really making a
difference in leveraging thatand finding a way to be better,
(30:15):
family member, better, you know,leader at work, whatever it
might be, but it's aboutfocusing on those few things
that have the biggest positiveimpact for you, personally and
the people around you, you know,applying what the 8020 rule,
that whole 20% of your timeshould be spent on the things
that are going to have 80% ofthe impact. And so to me, it's
(30:37):
about being really clear on onwhere you can make the biggest
difference, what's holding youback, and then finding ways to
over, you know, limit theminimise the weaknesses and
literally leverage, learn toleverage your strengths.
Agi Keramidas (30:55):
May, May I add to that, because you said that I
use the word the term expert,and you said that expert implies
a destination rather than thejourney which I understand what
you mean. And I realised whenyou were saying that my podcast
is personal development mastery,if I if I think of mastery as
(31:19):
something to be achieved, selfmastery, I think I'm setting up
myself for failure if I see itas an end result. Because the
idea of that I have in what aself mastery is, I mean as a
destination. So instead, I havechosen, and I choose to see it
as a process, as a journey. Yes,that I will never arrive to self
(31:45):
mastery. What I can strive to dois to keep growing towards the
ideal that I have of what selfmastery is. Yeah, and that's
Michael DeLisser (31:57):
that's one of the most important things
leaders forget, is you don'tsuddenly reach a stage where
you're a great leader, becausesomething can happen the very
next day that causes you to stepbackwards in your greatness, you
know. So it's important for usto control our egos and
recognise that that every day isan opportunity to learn
something new, and every day youcould make a mistake that could
(32:20):
cause you to have a setback, butdo you, you know, do you learn
from that setback, and do youhelp it? Do you take that
setback and use it as a tool tohelp you continually improve?
And if your mindset is, I'm on ajourney, and I'm constantly
trying to improve, and I'mtrying to, you know, increase my
personal mastery, or whatever itis that you may be working on,
if you if you never let yourselfforget that you'll constantly be
(32:42):
learning and looking to learn inevery experience you have, which
is really what makes, what setsapart great, great leaders from
you know, average ones is theyreally never stop trying to
learn and get better, just as aleader and as a person.
Agi Keramidas (32:57):
Indeed, I also have a quick hypothetical
question, if you could go backin time and meet your 18 year
old self, what's one piece ofadvice you would give him?
Michael DeLisser (33:12):
Probably I would have advised to let go of
ego much sooner. You know, whenI was early in my career, I was
so sure that the training I wascreating was great, you know,
that I sometimes didn't hearfeedback from others. And the
(33:32):
truth of matter is, you know,when I look back at the training
I did way back then, or thecoaching I did, it was not
nearly as good as the trainingI'm doing now, you know, and
sometimes our egos get in theway, because we wrap up our
identities and our work. And Ithink if I could give my 18 year
old self advice, I'd say, let goof thinking your ideas are the
best and go out and speak topeople who think differently
(33:55):
from you, because we all haveblinders in the way we see the
world. And when you talk tosomeone with very different
backgrounds, you become moreeffective because you now see
the world broader, and you canmake better decisions and be
better at what you do. Even inwriting this book, I
deliberately went out and foundreviewers that thought very
differently from me, people thatare very structured and very
(34:16):
results driven, and they reallyhelped me. I mean that I cut
back on how much was in thebook. I became more structured
in the way I laid it out, andthat was because I allowed, I
was able to suppress my ego tothe point that I could go out
and really want feedback frompeople that were going to say
things that I didn't want tohear, but ultimately made the
book better. So,
Agi Keramidas (34:39):
Michael, I want to thank you very much for this
conversation we had today, whichI believe it was very useful,
both in terms of communication,which, you know, the the
practical things that you sharedwas were many, but. So Ali also
(35:00):
appreciated all those referencesto the self awareness element
and that you gave throughout theconversation. I want to wish you
all the very best with yourmission and carrying on, you
know, helping leaderscommunicate more effectively. I
(35:25):
will leave it to you for partingwords and perhaps something
actionable for the listener ofthis conversation after
listening to us for half an hournow, what is the message that
you would like to leave themwith,
Michael DeLisser (35:44):
I would just suggest that they recognise that
we all have our imperfections,but ultimately, all feedback
from others is good feedback, ifyou do something with it to help
yourself improve and and onequote that I'd love to use that
I think is particularly valuablefor everyone to remember is
(36:04):
we're all very different fromother people, right? And so if
you really want to improve yourrelationship with anybody, just
let go of wishing they weredifferent from who they are. And
it's so critical, because we gothrough our lives wishing people
they were more like us, or wehire people around us that are
like us, but we become moreeffective when we surround
ourselves with people who thinkdifferently from us and so, but
(36:26):
that also creates situationswhere we kind of wish someone
was different from who they are,because they're not like me. And
so if you can let go of tryingto change others and accept them
from who they are, you caninstantly improve their
relationship, because now,instead of listening to them and
wishing they were going to bedifferent, you expect different,
you expect that behaviour, andyou can learn to be okay with
it. And thank you for having meon. I really appreciate the
(36:48):
opportunity. You know my my goalin life in general, is to do
everything I can to help theworld communicate more
effectively. We live in a verynegative world with a lot of
negative messaging out there,and anything I can do to create
a little bit more positive andcreate better interaction.
Better interactions. That's whatdrives me and that's what makes
me excited about what I do.
Agi Keramidas (37:12):
Thank you for listening to this conversation
with Michael de Lisa. I hope ithas given you a fresh
perspective on how selfawareness is the gateway to more
effective communication anddeeper connection. If this
conversation inspired you orgave you something meaningful,
consider supporting the show.
It's like buying me a coffee inreturn for the value you
(37:35):
received. Visit personaldevelopment mastery
podcast.com/support dot com,slash support, or just tap the
link in theuntil next time. Stand out don't
fit in.
The hidden link between self awareness and
effective communication.
Discover how self awarenessshapes the way you communicate
and leadwelcome to Personal Development
mastery. The podcast forintelligent, busy professionals
(00:21):
who have achieved success butfeel something is missing and
are seeking clarity, purpose andfulfilment. Each episode helps
you grow by inspiring alignedaction through practical
insights you can actually use. Iam your host, Agi Keramidas,
join us every Monday for aninsightful conversation with a
(00:44):
guest, and each Thursday for ashorter episode where I reflect
and share with you. This isepisode 546, if you are looking
to improve your communicationand strengthen your self
awareness, the followingconversation explores how small
conscious changes can elevateevery area of your life,
(01:07):
personal relationships,professional success and
leadership. Before we start, ifyou resonate with the topics we
discuss on the podcast and youare navigating a transition, or
perhaps feeling called to a nextchapter that is more purposeful
and intentional. I offer one toone coaching and mentoring to
(01:29):
help you get clear, reconnectwith what truly matters and move
ahead with confidence to explorewhat that could look like for
you. Visit personal developmentmastery podcast.com/mentor, or
just tap the link in the shownotes. Now let's get started. My
guest today is Michael de Lisa.
(01:56):
Michael You are a leadershipcoach, author, speaker and
communication expert, you arepassionate about helping leaders
worldwide accelerate theirsuccess by building self
awareness, unlearning poorhabits and mastering
communication in the age of AI,Michael is a pleasure to have
(02:18):
you to the show.
Michael DeLisser (02:19):
Welcome. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.
I'm
Agi Keramidas (02:23):
looking forward to exploring with you, mastering
our communication and alsoenhance our self awareness and
the connection between thesetwo. What I would like to start
I'm going to start straight divein, and I will ask you for a
busy, professional listeningright now, what's one practical
(02:48):
change they can implement todaythat can instantly change their
communication make it moreeffective?
Michael DeLisser (02:58):
Yeah, and I'm glad you opened by talking about
the connection between selfawareness and communication
skills, because the number onething that will allow you to
improve your communicationskills is developing very high
self awareness and that thathappens when you get feedback
from others, when you start totake the time to reflect on
(03:19):
communication and see what wentwell and where you could have
done differently. So but thenumber one thing when I'm
teaching communication is Ialways start with self
awareness. And as you mentionedin the introduction, part of
what I do with a lot of peopleis helping them unlearn
ineffective communication habitsand and they have to be self
aware to make that happen. Andonce you make people self aware,
(03:41):
they actually can make reallygood progress on improving or
eliminating those habits thatare holding them back, either in
their personal relationships orat work. So the most important
thing overall they can do isreally start to ask questions,
get feedback from people. Thebook I just released has a
number of self assessments init, but if you could do anything
to increase your self awareness,then you can target the one or
(04:04):
two things that will have thebiggest overall positive impact
on your success at work and inyour relationships at home.
Agi Keramidas (04:13):
Tell me when you say, Now, self awareness in this
context, what shall because forsomeone listening, this might be
a bit abstract, self awareness,nice expression, but what does
it mean, especially in thiscontext?
Michael DeLisser (04:31):
So the areas that I usually focus on, there's
three of them, one is emotionalintelligence and emotional
intelligence, one of the fourareas of emotional intelligence
is self awareness, right? And inthat context, it includes, are
you aware of what triggers youemotionally? What are the things
that cause you to reactemotionally, as opposed to
(04:51):
rationally? In situations withothers? And we've all been in
situations where we maybe getangry or start to. React and end
up saying things that we didn'tintend to say, or comes across
in a way that's ineffective. Sonumber one would be being aware
of what triggers you and andstarting to develop a higher
awareness of how you react incertain situations and finding
(05:15):
ways to proactively preventyourself from doing so. So
that's one the second area ofself awareness that's really key
is, what are your currentcommunication habits, and how do
they help you or hurt you inyour relationships and your
effectiveness at work? So forexample, a lot of us develop
communication habits at a veryyoung age, and it's from part of
(05:37):
our family communication I callthem culturally learned
communication behaviours orhabits. And for example, let's
say you grew up in a largefamily, and there's six kids
around the table, and you're allcompeting for attention, you
know, with your parents at thedinner table, a lot of people
bring that habit of interruptingothers to try to get attention
into the workplace, but in theworkplace, it doesn't work, or
(06:00):
they bring it into theirrelationships, you know, and
they as adults, they end upinterrupting people a lot, and
if you're not aware that you'reinterrupting people, then you
end up potentially hurting trustor hurting the relationship that
whoever you're speaking with. Sodeveloping a very high awareness
of any communication habits youhave that are holding you back
is also important. And then ifyou have any communications that
(06:21):
are really effective, leveragingthose using them more often,
that's also a good thing. Forexample, if you are a really
good listener, really maketaking a moment to be 100%
present and listening reallywell to the person and
responding in ways to prove thatyou heard them. So that would be
the second area. The third area,I would say, self awareness is
(06:43):
around how your personalityneeds impact how you come across
to others. And so I work with anumber of different personality
tools, but more often than not,our personalities dictate how we
come across to others and wherewe're strong and where we're not
so strong in our relationshipswith others. For example, if
you're a very structured orresults driven person, you may
(07:04):
be very task focused, but youmay not be as you may not show
as much empathy towards others.
Similarly, if you're very moreof a people person, and you're
very you know, you show empathyand you're very good in that
regard, you may not be verystructured or results driven,
and and you may end up notgetting to outcomes, because,
you know, you're not as focusedon the results. So there's,
(07:25):
there's all these littleelements of personality as well.
But if you could be becomereally aware of how your
personality helps your personalrelationships and where it might
hinder them, if you can reallybe good at understanding what
triggers you emotionally andcontrolling that, and if you can
manage your interpersonalhabits, any communication
habits, and eliminate the onesthat are hurting trust, those
(07:46):
are the three things I wouldthink would have the biggest
impact.
Agi Keramidas (07:52):
This is great and very multifaceted like that. I
will focus out of you know, asas important as the first thing
you mentioned about being awareof what triggers you
emotionally, that's, I thinkthat deserves a whole other
conversation to go through. So Iwill stick with the second thing
(08:16):
you said about the being awareof our communication habits, you
said, and also, you know, thelistening skills. Can you give
some examples of these kinds ofhabits, of communication habits,
(08:36):
perhaps an example of somethingthat hurts our communication
sure people do it, you know,without even realising, and
perhaps something that improves.
Or the communication, again,some people might be doing it
without knowing. So, so we canhave a little bit of two
different ones.
Michael DeLisser (08:58):
Sure, there's, I actually have a self
assessment that I use thatincludes the, probably the 15
most common habits that peoplehave that hurt, trust with
others and and I could, I couldgive you a few of the ones right
off of that list, but one ofthem would be not being present,
right? So day, you know,daydreaming, thinking of other
(09:21):
things, multitasking, those kindof things. And look in today's
world, we are being bombarded byso much information, and our
phone pings at us, and we gettext alerts and all these
things. And when you're in aconversation with someone and
you're sitting there looking atthose instead of focusing on
them and giving them yourattention, the message you're
sending to them is, you're notimportant enough for my full
(09:43):
attention. And that's a reallybad message, and it hurts trust.
So one habit is being 100%present and and giving the other
person your full attention andnot allowing distractions to
interfere. Another one would bereacting emotionally in case
situation. Conversations askinglike sometimes based on our
(10:03):
personality, we will, we will domost of it talking in a
conversation, and not give theother person enough time to
speak. That's another one. So ifyou have an extroverted
personality type, frequently,people will dominate
conversations in meetings,dominate conversations at home
and the other person will end upfeeling like you're not
(10:23):
interested in what they have tosay. So that's another potential
one that I work on with peopleinterrupting others. Is a common
one, perhaps giving too muchinformation instead of staying
focused. You know, peoplesometimes their minds wander.
But there's, there's a wholebunch of them that I could, I
could rattle off judging peoplementally while they're speaking,
(10:45):
is another one. You know, we endup hearing things and we may
disagree with what they say, andbecause of that, we end up
stopping listening and beingmore judgmental in our brains.
So there's, there's quite a few,and what I do is I work with
individuals on whichever one, Ihelp them increase their self
awareness about which one theyuse the most or which is having
(11:05):
the most damage. And then I helpthem reduce the use of that.
Agi Keramidas (11:10):
It's great. It is indeed a matter of self
awareness. So can you give usalso a few of the other side of
the spectrum, some of the goodcommunication habits that,
especially some that peoplemight be doing, you know,
naturally or because without, Imean, unconsciously, without
(11:36):
paying attention to it.
Michael DeLisser (11:38):
Yeah, I can tell you. I'll give you one for
me. Example. This is a lesson Ilearned very early in life. My
my mother would not let me lie,right? I mean, she would, she
would be. She would always holdme accountable for the things
that I didn't, that I did,right? And so sometimes we go
into workplace setting and oreven at home, I did this in, you
(12:02):
know, in high school, you know,I'd be honest if I did something
wrong, I would just say, Yes, Idid that. You know, I owned up
to it right away. But when, whenyou do that, I mean, I've had
people later say, I appreciatethe fact you're willing to just
be honest with me about that,you know. So sometimes we learn
our values drive our behaviours.
If your value is honesty andintegrity and being
straightforward with what you'resaying. You will tend to do that
(12:23):
in your conversations. Someother things. Sometimes we
naturally have learned the artof listening from our family
members, you know, so givingsomeone their full attention,
making them feel valued.
Sometimes, those are things welearn early in life as well, and
we don't even realise we'redoing it. We're just being a
(12:43):
good listener. And someone willsay, Hey, you're a great
listener, and you don't evenknow why, because you just you
had good role models thatinfluenced you and in developing
those listening skills, notinterrupting. You know that the
opposite of the other one Imentioned even the the ability
to ask good questions. You know,sometimes people inherently are
just better at doing thatbecause they're genuinely
(13:05):
interested in what the otherperson is saying. And that,
again, could be a habit learnedearly in life.
Agi Keramidas (13:13):
Thank you. That's it's I personally find it always
fascinating when I hear about,you know, things like this that
can improve or hurt thecommunication, and often people
do them without realising. Andactually, let's, let's stick to
(13:35):
the we've mentioned, selfawareness so many times already.
And as you know, Michael, it'sanother thing. It's one thing to
talk about how nice it is to beself aware, and it's another
thing in the, let's say, theheat of a conversation, or if
(13:57):
there is an argument that isabout to happen, or something
that is stressful. You know, thesituations can be either in
personal or professionalsetting, sure, but when emotions
or these kinds of intensethoughts start coming,
(14:19):
maintaining that level of selfawareness can be a bit more
challenging. I will say it likethat. So can you offer some
practical advice that one canheighten their self awareness in
situations that you know, thereis stress, there is which is
(14:40):
actually when you need this selfawareness the most,
Michael DeLisser (14:43):
yes, yes. And what's interesting is, you know,
to be able to catch yourself inthe moment, you have to develop
that self awareness. It's kindof a prerequisite. You have to
know what triggers you, or youhave to know what changes are
occurring in your body at thatmoment. Uh, you know, do you
feel your blood pressure goingup? Are you starting to, you
(15:03):
know, when you when you feelthose moments? Can you catch
yourself and be aware thatthat's happening at that exact
moment? I mean, that's thebiggest thing. So knowing what
triggers you, we talked aboutthat earlier, but a lot of
times, the people that you spendthe most time with can tell you
exactly what triggers you, orthey can tell you they can tell
when you're starting to getemotional, because they've been
around you enough. Around youenough to see it. So having some
(15:24):
trusting relationships peopleyou really know will give you
honest feedback and helpingthem, inviting them to give you
the feedback when it'shappening, at the moment it's
happening, or even advance. Say,Hey, in these situations, this
is when I see you becomingreactive. Then, of course, once
you've gotten good at knowing ordetecting when it's going to
happen or catching yourself inthe moment, you have to have an
(15:47):
alternative behaviour to replaceit with right? And that's the
big challenges. Is, once youknow what the issue is or what
triggers you, how do you getyourself to calm down again?
There's, there's many techniquesfor doing this. You know, the
one that I like to use. I callit, don't take the bait. And I
literally, I think of, I thinkof a fish looking at a fish hook
(16:08):
with with bait on it, you know.
And I am the fish, right? And soI have to when, as I look at
this, I have to recognisesomething in this conversation
is baiting me. It's making mewant to bite on that hook, and
if you bite on it, you getreeled into a very big argument,
you know, or you get into a bigyou know. So my if I can feel
myself getting triggered, thefirst thing I say to myself is,
(16:30):
Don't take the bait. Don't getpulled into an argument. Another
thing that I might do in thatsituation is I might stop and
say, You know what, I'm startingto feel a little emotional right
now, and I don't want to say ordo anything that is going to
hurt our relationship or ouroutcomes, so I'm going to take a
moment and step away. Somepeople will just take a moment
to breathe. But you you have tounderstand yourself well enough
(16:54):
to know what technique is goingto work for you in those exact
situations. And look, if youdon't handle the situation
Great. One of the best thingsyou could do is go back to the
person after you've had time tocalm down and think about it and
say, Hey, I really am not proudof the way I behaved a little
bit earlier. I allowed myself toget emotional, and I'd like to
pick up that conversation again,because it's important for me to
(17:15):
have a good relationship withyou, and I feel like that. Last
conversation didn't help withthat. So would you mind talking
about it now that I'm notfeeling as emotional? So there's
a number of different ways to dothat, but but the key is knowing
and knowing how your bodyreacts, and being able to react
in that moment to catch yourselfhaving an emotional reaction,
and then you can choose thedifferent techniques that work
(17:38):
the best for you,
Agi Keramidas (17:42):
this is very useful. And you know, you
mentioned some practical things,like the breathing I liked very
much, the approach that you hadto directly explain to the other
person that look right nowbecause of this, or I'm getting
emotional, or whatever otherelse, real reason there is there
(18:07):
I'd rather not have this rightnow. I think this explanation
and this honesty really buildsthe, you know, avoiding an
escalation or something, or atleast taking it or postpone it,
(18:28):
perhaps, yeah, because you'restill going to have the
conversation at some point. ButI liked very much.
Michael DeLisser (18:34):
Yes, I was just gonna add one other
thought, one other thing youcould do if you are going into a
conversation and you happen toknow that there's a chance it
could become emotional, orthere's a chance the other
person might not react well,doing some visualisations in
your own brain about how thisconversation might go and what
you might do if you feeltriggered, or what might trigger
(18:56):
the other person you know,mentally preparing yourself And
visualising a good outcome andvisualising yourself staying
calm. That's a proactive way ofpreparing for those kind of
conversations. If you happen toknow that there's a chance it
could become emotional.
Agi Keramidas (19:11):
Thank you for that. That's it's always great
to add that in a toolbox ofcommunication, especially before
a conversation, that it isuseful to practice it, and now
that you said it, it serves,also personally for me, as a
(19:32):
good reminder. So thank you alsofor that. I want to go, Michael
back for a little bit. I willdigress for a bit, and we'll
come back and to thecommunication. But there was,
you know, from when I wasreading your story, I got
(19:54):
fascinated by the fact that, youknow, when you were a teenager,
I. You sat with your father, whowas a coach, and he was coaching
fortune, 100 executives that youknow were had communication
problems and they were laid off,or something like that. So I
(20:15):
wanted to hear a bit aboutbecause after all this time,
this A and this event, or thisseries of events, influenced you
into your work and your, youknow, passion and mission. So I
wanted to hear a bit about howit shaped you at that time,
yeah, and then we'll come backto what we were saying,
Michael DeLisser (20:38):
No. And you know, the experience of watching
my father coach fired executivesreally changed my life. I mean,
it gave me purpose. It helped meunderstand the importance of
strong communication skills.
Because nearly every one ofthese executives he was
coaching, they did not get firedbased on their technical skills.
They got fired based on theirlack of communication skills or
(20:59):
communication mistakes, and I'llgive you an example of how this
happens to all of us. You know,when you think about it, in
jobs, people get promoted basedon their technical skills, but
the higher you go in anorganisation, the more important
it becomes to have communitystrong communication skills. So
what was happening is theseindividuals were getting
promotions, and they were movingup the ladder without getting
(21:20):
adequate communication skillstraining, and because of that,
that's what ended up holdingthem back in their careers, is
their lack of effectivecommunication. And so for me to
see these very high levelexecutives struggling with basic
communication skills that I tookfor granted because my dad
taught them in our house, youknow, it made me realise that
that, you know, many timescompanies inadvertently set up
(21:43):
people for for failure by notgiving them that kind of
training and and then I evenrealised that all of the things
that these, these executives areworking on are just as relevant
in our personal lives. You know,they that, you know, when
they're constantly interruptingor they're saying things that
are making other people angry,or whatever it might be doing at
work, the bad habit that gotthem fired, these are the same
(22:06):
things that hurt our personalrelationships. So I started to
realise that if I can reallyhelp people improve their
communication, I can improvetheir lives at home, I can help
them improve their relationshipswith their spouses and their
kids and their families and Ican also help them be better
leaders in the workplace. So Istarted to realise that this is
a incredibly powerful thing andand with the age of AI coming
(22:28):
and technical skills beingreplaced by more and more
artificial intelligence, itbecomes even more important,
because the things that willmake people stand out is their
human and people skills, becausethey need to get things done
through others and and technicalskills are going to become less
and less critical as you gethigher in an organisation. So
everything about that experienceand watching it just made me
(22:51):
realise there's a strong need inthis world for to help people
communicate more effectively,both at work and at home,
Agi Keramidas (23:01):
absolutely 100% Thank you, Michael, let me ask
you. I'm going to come back tothe communication, but I want to
ask something specific, orrather, for a specific kind of
person that is probablylistening right now, and the
(23:24):
person I'm talking about issomeone who is, you know,
successful, has achievedexternal success in life, but
finds themselves, you Know,unfulfilled or disconnected to
some level. For that person, howcan improving their
(23:47):
communication skills help them,you know, perhaps reconnect with
that meaning or within theirwork, in their fulfilment? I
hope my question makes sense?
Michael DeLisser (24:01):
Yeah, no, it does make sense. And I think
more often than not, peopleforget that how we communicate
with ourselves is just asimportant as how we communicate
with others and and the wholeconversation going on in your
head about not feelingfulfilled, maybe making
judgments about yourself thatare negative judgments, you
know, sometimes those arelearned behaviours, you know,
(24:22):
those those things where we havea negative conversation, where
we're criticising ourselves, butto really be able to get beyond
that, it helps if you take thetime to really become clear on
kind of your purpose or yourvalues and reconnecting with
those things. Because whensomeone is is not feeling
fulfilled more often than not,it's because they're not, and if
(24:45):
it's work related, they're notdoing work that allows them to
feel like they're contributingand making a difference to the
greater good. If it's in apersonal life, it might be, you
know, that they're they'relacking, you know, the closeness
of relationships and things likethat that that make them feel
Agi. Isolated or lonely. Soultimately, the thing that I do,
and I've done this a lot withpeople both transitioning to a
(25:07):
new career, or people who arejust graduating college, and I
worked a lot with MBA studentswho were trying to figure out
what they wanted to do withtheir lives, you know, they got
this education, but they don'tknow what to do it. And I focus
them very clearly on what arethe things that you feel most
passionate about, you know, andand it doesn't necessarily have
to be just work related things.
It could be things in a personalline. And then what are the
(25:29):
things you're best at? And thenyou if you could find a career
that allows you to do whatyou're passionate about and what
you're best at, it puts you in aposition to want to get up every
day and go to work becauseyou're excited, because you're
making a difference in doingwhat you love and doing what
you're good at, similarly, andjust life in general. If you can
find ways, if you're clear onwhat your values are, find ways
(25:51):
to live those values, it couldbe volunteering. It could be
becoming part of somethingbigger than you that is making a
difference in the world, but butmore often than not, people in
their lives never stop toreflect on those things that are
important to them. They don'ttake the time to think about
what you know. What is mypurpose? What are the things I
love to do? What are the thingsthat would make me feel
(26:12):
fulfilled? And when the day isover, I will feel like I did
something worthwhile today, andI felt like I made a difference,
and I could feel good aboutmyself. People don't take the
time to do that, and when youdo, take the time to do that,
and then intentionally, daily,try to find ways to do that.
Even if your work doesn't allowyou to do it, you can find ways
outside of work to contributeand make you feel like you're
(26:35):
hitting on that purpose. Sooverall, I think that getting in
touch with your values andliving them will do more to help
you and taking the time tofigure out what your values are
if you haven't already donethat, that'll do more to help
you be able to focus your energyin ways that allow you to feel
better about yourself and yourdirection and The difference
(26:56):
you're making.
Agi Keramidas (27:00):
That's, I believe, always a good reminder
to you know, take the time toreflect and understand our
values and what's important tous. Michael, you mentioned your
book earlier. I wanted to askyou, where would you like to
(27:21):
direct the listener of thisconversation that has found
this? What you have said veryuseful so far. What's the next
place to go?
Michael DeLisser (27:32):
So the name of the book is leadership
accelerators, and the subtitleis high impact communication
skills that that strengthenresults and relationships, and
the book is the purpose of thebook is to help people work on
their self awareness and thecommunication skills would be
most valuable for them. So Ibasically focus on I give them
(27:54):
self assessments. I give themactivities they can do they can
immediately turn around andapply the their increased self
awareness and find ways toimprove their skills in the
areas that are most important.
So the book itself is availableon Amazon. You can go to my
website if you wanted toactually see the or get the link
there. But my website is my lastname.com, delicr.com, and if you
(28:16):
D, E, L, i, s, s, 2s, s, e,r.com, and you could go and
check out the book. The wholepurpose of the book was to give
people the tools to be able tohelp themselves. Improving
communication. It's great tohone relationships. It's great
at work. It is geared towardsleaders. But, you know, my
(28:37):
personal feeling is we are allleaders in our in our personal
lives as well. You know, ifyou're leading your family, if
you're in your community,there's all sorts of ways, but
the communication skills that Icover, the self awareness I
cover, are the same at work andat home, and they're just as
valuable in most situations.
Absolutely.
Agi Keramidas (28:57):
And I'm glad you mentioned the self leadership,
because it is something thatoften, when one looks at, let's
say, a book about leadership,they might miss that element of
self leadership, of leadershipthat applies to all. Michael, I
(29:18):
have some questions that as westart to wrap up this
conversation today, I have someconversations I always ask my
guest, and the first one is,what does personal development
mean to you?
Michael DeLisser (29:33):
For me, it's about understanding yourself
better and learning to have agood relationship with yourself
in a way that allows you to toshow up to others and make a
difference externally, you know.
So, you know, I mean theintroduction you talked about me
being an expert. I rarely willdescribe myself as an expert,
(29:54):
because I feel like, for me, I'mconstantly thriving to be better
at. What I do. And expert,sounds like a destination, but
it's really a journey, right?
And we have to keep, keeptrying. So personal development
is about being clear on whereyou are really making a
difference in leveraging thatand finding a way to be better,
(30:15):
family member, better, you know,leader at work, whatever it
might be, but it's aboutfocusing on those few things
that have the biggest positiveimpact for you, personally and
the people around you, you know,applying what the 8020 rule,
that whole 20% of your timeshould be spent on the things
that are going to have 80% ofthe impact. And so to me, it's
(30:37):
about being really clear on onwhere you can make the biggest
difference, what's holding youback, and then finding ways to
over, you know, limit theminimise the weaknesses and
literally leverage, learn toleverage your strengths.
Agi Keramidas (30:55):
May, May I add to that, because you said that I
use the word the term expert,and you said that expert implies
a destination rather than thejourney which I understand what
you mean. And I realised whenyou were saying that my podcast
is personal development mastery,if I if I think of mastery as
(31:19):
something to be achieved, selfmastery, I think I'm setting up
myself for failure if I see itas an end result. Because the
idea of that I have in what aself mastery is, I mean as a
destination. So instead, I havechosen, and I choose to see it
as a process, as a journey. Yes,that I will never arrive to self
(31:45):
mastery. What I can strive to dois to keep growing towards the
ideal that I have of what selfmastery is. Yeah, and that's
Michael DeLisser (31:57):
that's one of the most important things
leaders forget, is you don'tsuddenly reach a stage where
you're a great leader, becausesomething can happen the very
next day that causes you to stepbackwards in your greatness, you
know. So it's important for usto control our egos and
recognise that that every day isan opportunity to learn
something new, and every day youcould make a mistake that could
(32:20):
cause you to have a setback, butdo you, you know, do you learn
from that setback, and do youhelp it? Do you take that
setback and use it as a tool tohelp you continually improve?
And if your mindset is, I'm on ajourney, and I'm constantly
trying to improve, and I'mtrying to, you know, increase my
personal mastery, or whatever itis that you may be working on,
if you if you never let yourselfforget that you'll constantly be
(32:42):
learning and looking to learn inevery experience you have, which
is really what makes, what setsapart great, great leaders from
you know, average ones is theyreally never stop trying to
learn and get better, just as aleader and as a person.
Agi Keramidas (32:57):
Indeed, I also have a quick hypothetical
question, if you could go backin time and meet your 18 year
old self, what's one piece ofadvice you would give him?
Michael DeLisser (33:12):
Probably I would have advised to let go of
ego much sooner. You know, whenI was early in my career, I was
so sure that the training I wascreating was great, you know,
that I sometimes didn't hearfeedback from others. And the
(33:32):
truth of matter is, you know,when I look back at the training
I did way back then, or thecoaching I did, it was not
nearly as good as the trainingI'm doing now, you know, and
sometimes our egos get in theway, because we wrap up our
identities and our work. And Ithink if I could give my 18 year
old self advice, I'd say, let goof thinking your ideas are the
best and go out and speak topeople who think differently
(33:55):
from you, because we all haveblinders in the way we see the
world. And when you talk tosomeone with very different
backgrounds, you become moreeffective because you now see
the world broader, and you canmake better decisions and be
better at what you do. Even inwriting this book, I
deliberately went out and foundreviewers that thought very
differently from me, people thatare very structured and very
(34:16):
results driven, and they reallyhelped me. I mean that I cut
back on how much was in thebook. I became more structured
in the way I laid it out, andthat was because I allowed, I
was able to suppress my ego tothe point that I could go out
and really want feedback frompeople that were going to say
things that I didn't want tohear, but ultimately made the
book better. So,
Agi Keramidas (34:39):
Michael, I want to thank you very much for this
conversation we had today, whichI believe it was very useful,
both in terms of communication,which, you know, the the
practical things that you sharedwas were many, but. So Ali also
(35:00):
appreciated all those referencesto the self awareness element
and that you gave throughout theconversation. I want to wish you
all the very best with yourmission and carrying on, you
know, helping leaderscommunicate more effectively. I
(35:25):
will leave it to you for partingwords and perhaps something
actionable for the listener ofthis conversation after
listening to us for half an hournow, what is the message that
you would like to leave themwith,
Michael DeLisser (35:44):
I would just suggest that they recognise that
we all have our imperfections,but ultimately, all feedback
from others is good feedback, ifyou do something with it to help
yourself improve and and onequote that I'd love to use that
I think is particularly valuablefor everyone to remember is
(36:04):
we're all very different fromother people, right? And so if
you really want to improve yourrelationship with anybody, just
let go of wishing they weredifferent from who they are. And
it's so critical, because we gothrough our lives wishing people
they were more like us, or wehire people around us that are
like us, but we become moreeffective when we surround
ourselves with people who thinkdifferently from us and so, but
(36:26):
that also creates situationswhere we kind of wish someone
was different from who they are,because they're not like me. And
so if you can let go of tryingto change others and accept them
from who they are, you caninstantly improve their
relationship, because now,instead of listening to them and
wishing they were going to bedifferent, you expect different,
you expect that behaviour, andyou can learn to be okay with
it. And thank you for having meon. I really appreciate the
(36:48):
opportunity. You know my my goalin life in general, is to do
everything I can to help theworld communicate more
effectively. We live in a verynegative world with a lot of
negative messaging out there,and anything I can do to create
a little bit more positive andcreate better interaction.
Better interactions. That's whatdrives me and that's what makes
me excited about what I do.
Agi Keramidas (37:12):
Thank you for listening to this conversation
with Michael de Lisa. I hope ithas given you a fresh
perspective on how selfawareness is the gateway to more
effective communication anddeeper connection. If this
conversation inspired you orgave you something meaningful,
consider supporting the show.
It's like buying me a coffee inreturn for the value you
(37:35):
received. Visit personaldevelopment mastery
podcast.com/support dot com,slash support, or just tap the
link in theuntil next time. Stand out don't
fit in.
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