December 2, 2025 • 57 mins
Have you ever realized that the identity you’ve built—the one that’s kept everything running—might also be the very thing keeping you from your next becoming?
In this week’s episode of Plenty, I get to sit down with someone who has witnessed me through many of my own becomings: my longtime friend and former coach, Chela Davison. Our conversation is an intimate, funny, deeply human exploration of midlife unraveling as an initiation into deeper truth, creative recovery, and a fuller expression of self.
Chela and I trace the arc of her journey from being the hyper-capable, endlessly resilient woman who could “make anything happen,” to the moment her internal generator finally sputtered out—and how that collapse ushered her into a two-year wintering season that ultimately birthed her acclaimed one-woman show, A Little Bit Much. We talk about the illusion of the breadwinner, the stories we project onto our partnerships, and the internalized cultural narratives that quietly shape our sense of worth.
We also explore what it means to be “a little bit much” in a world that often prefers women palatable and contained—how to preserve our aliveness without overwhelming ourselves or others, and how to move from performative productivity into regenerative creativity. Chela’s story is a living example of following the energy, listening for what wants to be created, and allowing art to heal the artist first.
This episode is full of laughter, truth telling, permission, and the kind of midlife wisdom that only comes from letting something fall apart so something truer can emerge.
I can’t wait for you to listen.
In this episode you’ll discover:
✨ Over-identifying with resilience led to burnout
✨ Creative recovery came from stepping back and slowing down
✨ Challenging and redefining breadwinner narratives
✨ Embracing being “a little bit much” as strength
✨ Creative growth comes from staying with the process
“I looked around and asked myself, ‘Who am I willing to disappoint to get my life back?’ And the first person I realized I was willing to disappoint… was me.” — Chela Davidson
🎤 Let’s Dive into the Good Stuff on Plenty 🎤
00:00 – Introduction to Resilience & Identity
00:26 – Guest Background & Creative Recovery
03:00 – Turning 40, Maturity & Evolving Identity
05:12 – Childhood Messaging & Self-Perception
07:35 – Career Success, Challenges & Vulnerability
09:13 – Burnout, Loss & Identity Crisis
11:51 – Reclaiming Creative Life Force
13:07 – Resentment, Breadwinning & Gender Expectations
16:21 – Healing Through Vulnerability & Relationship Dynamics
19:17 – The Influence of Patriarchy & Processing Resentment
21:25 – Creative Recovery, New Projects & Self-Discovery
27:22 – Vulnerability in Creative Processes & Community
38:19 – Social Media, Creative Resistance & Staying With the Work
44:18 – Art, Healing & Creative Integrity
50:42 – The Journey of Art, Commerce & Creative Community
54:49 – Closing Thoughts & Resources
Links and Resources:
Connect with Chela Davison:
Website
Wizdotainment
A Little Bit Much
Instagram
✨ The Money Reset: Feel Good with Money—No Matter How Much You Make
Rewire your nervous system for wealth, stop the money-in/money-out cycle, and create sustainable abundance. Includes the 5-Minute Calm Cashflow Ritual.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chela Davison (00:00):
I was so identified with being resilient
(00:03):
and so wanted to rise to theoccasion and meet the
expectations and and meet myrole and handle what I was
supposed to handle that when Istarted to feel like the wheels
of my capacity coming off, it sodeeply threatened my identity of
being resilient that I just keptlike I actually had a a somatic
(00:23):
experience of like turning on agenerator in my body.
Kate Northrup (00:26):
Hello. Today on the podcast, I have the woman
who was my coach while I waswriting Money, a Love Story when
I was like 27, 28, 29, somewherein that range. She helped me so
much at that time and then webecame friends. She was at my
(00:48):
wedding. We have voice memoedback and forth over over a
decade since that time.
We've had parallel paths in alot of ways and in this
conversation, conversation,you're going to hear the
incredible story of how she gaveherself permission to go into
creative recovery and birth themost incredible one woman show.
(01:14):
And in this episode, we talkabout taking our cues from the
seasons. We talk about covercrops. We talk about marriage
and money and the illusion ofbreadwinning, which was a pretty
poignant moment for both of us,and what it's like to be a
little bit much in the world. Soenjoy this episode with the
(01:37):
absolutely incredible, SheilaDavidson.
Welcome to Plenty. I'm your hostKate Northrup and together we
are going on a journey to helpyou have an incredible
relationship with money, time,and energy. And to have
abundance on every possiblelevel. Every week, we're gonna
(01:59):
dive in with experts andinsights to help you unlock a
life of plenty. Let's go fillour cups.
Disclaimer (02:08):
Please note that the opinions and perspectives of the
guests on the Plenty podcast arenot necessarily reflective of
the opinions and perspectives ofKate Northrup or anyone who
works within the Kate Northrupbrand.
Kate Northrup (02:20):
Hey. Hi. Welcome. Thanks. Thanks for coming all
the way here.
Chela Davison (02:24):
Oh, thanks for having me.
Kate Northrup (02:25):
My god. I'm so excited to talk to you. It's
lovely. That's great. Okay.
So because folks listening don'tknow this, you were my coach
when I was 27. And that's been awhile. That's a long time ago.
Chela Davison (02:42):
We've known
Kate Northrup (02:43):
each other a really long time. You coached me
through the year. I was writingMoney, a Love Story. Yeah. That
was so fun.
And you are, what do you call itin that form of integral
coaching, the invitation ofwhere you're going?
Chela Davison (02:59):
New way of being,
Kate Northrup (03:00):
thank you. Yeah, welcome. My new way of being was
taking my seat, which I feellike just this year. Mean in
many ways I've taken my seatsince then, but there's been
some new stuff just at thistime. I think that's an
interesting thing about beingover 40, and finally being like,
(03:21):
oh wait, I'm not new.
Okay. I'm curious for you,you've had a lot of different
meanderings since then andevolutions of your career and
your business, and we'll talkabout those, but I do want to
know for you, have you foundsince turning 40 that there's a
level of like, oh, here I am.
Chela Davison (03:44):
Yes. Yeah. And it's weird because I would say,
like when I look back, you know,my husband will always be like,
I don't I still don't feel likea grown up. I mean, is a grown
up man to me, he's like, nobodyfeels like a grown up. And I'm
like, I have felt like a grownup Really?
Since I was Oh yeah. No, I neverfelt new. So it's an interesting
(04:07):
through my twenties I felt,yeah, I felt mature for my age,
I felt solid in what I wasdoing. In certain ways, since
turning 40, I feel less solid.Cool.
In in very cool ways. Yeah. Butyeah, it's interesting to think
back and go, like, I actuallyalways felt pretty right here
with what I was doing, but sinceturning 40, there's kind of a
(04:30):
like, oh this can actually beway more fun. So there's almost
like a throwback to ayouthfulness that love threw my
so much, Scott.
Kate Northrup (04:42):
Also because we started our relationship only by
phone when I was your client, Ialmost said your student, but
whatever, same thing. Whatever.I just assumed you were
significantly older than me. Ohyeah? And then when we were
ending our coaching package,somehow I realized that you were
two years older than me, orthree maybe.
Chela Davison (05:05):
See, it's my old vibe.
Kate Northrup (05:06):
I was like woah, I would call it a wisdom vibe.
Chela Davison (05:10):
Okay thanks, that's way better.
Kate Northrup (05:11):
You do not have old vibes at all. And in fact, I
will say when you refer toyourself as a midlife hag, we'll
get to that. I'm just like,that's not how I experience you
Chela Davison (05:25):
Oh, thank God.
Kate Northrup (05:26):
At all. And I'm curious about that Okay, well
I'm putting a pin for poundingback because I really wanna come
back. I really wanna come back.So you have felt like an adult
from the time you were ateenager.
Chela Davison (05:41):
Yeah. Maybe even younger. I mean, had I had seeds
planted, and I'm sure we'll getto this when we talk about the
show and all of that, of thestories that were told about who
we are and what we start toidentify with. And so I always
had these nudges or ways ofbeing related to as an old soul.
Right.
Or, you know, having wisdom orBy your
Kate Northrup (06:03):
parents, by other people in your community, by
teachers. All. All.
Chela Davison (06:07):
I was always precocious, outgoing, said
things that maybe you weren'tsupposed to say, but not in an
obnoxious way, but I also in waskind of paying attention in
attuned kind of way. So I gotthis messaging that I saw
things. Uh-huh.
Kate Northrup (06:24):
Yeah. Helpful, harmful, somewhere in between?
Chela Davison (06:27):
I would say mostly helpful. Mostly helpful.
Yeah. I think there weredefinitely ways that I picked up
responsibilities that over timethat calcified into some
heaviness, but overall helpful.
Kate Northrup (06:38):
I mean the reason I ask that is because our nine
year old is very with it. Very.Like she's ready to run a small
country. And if it weresocietally appropriate, she's
ready also to babysit. Like muchsmall you know, smaller
children.
And I tell her, you know, howsmart and with it she is. And as
(07:03):
someone who was also very smartand with it as a child, I'm just
curious, like, other people'sexperiences, like, is that
useful for children to havereflected?
Chela Davison (07:15):
I think so. I mean it was for me. It felt
empowering. I felt like I couldgo do things, that I would be
capable, that there would bepeople who were at my back as
well. I think there was a wayyou know there were times when
my mom was like, I didn't reallyknow how to parent you because
you just kind of parentedyourself.
But then she was there to fallback on, so it was like a sweet
(07:36):
balance. I think the risk isknowing when you don't have it
together, when you're not withit. Because I also hit like a
lot of success markers early on.Yeah.
Kate Northrup (07:47):
Right, because you started your salon when you
were 19. 19, and ran that verysuccessfully for how many years?
Eight years. And then you soldit?
Chela Davison (07:55):
And then I sold it?
Kate Northrup (07:56):
Yeah. For like you
Chela Davison (07:57):
sold it? Good chunk
Kate Northrup (07:58):
So you sold your first company for a good chunk
of cash when you were 27.
Chela Davison (08:02):
Or 20 Somewhere in there. Whatever, seven. Yeah
27, a year after I had my firstson. And then my marriage broke
down within a couple years ofthat, and so that experience
even, I had enough money formultiple years I had multiple
years income, so I retrained incoaching. I was a single mother.
I was able to support myself andmy son. Like I had a lot of
(08:26):
experience of being capable withit, successful, And so in
certain ways, I identified asbeing very resilient. And as
things unfolded and got morecomplicated, as I hit things
that were harder and morechallenging and couldn't just
make shit happen in the sameway, it was really disorienting
(08:48):
and confronting So and I thinkthat for our littles, for us,
for our little ones, to also beable to know that being with it,
and being bright, and beingcapable is a part of who you
are, but it's not all of who youare, and it's also okay to be
vulnerable, to not know, Yeah.To ask for
Kate Northrup (09:09):
to raise the flag and be like, I'm drowning here.
When was a moment for you whenyou realized that you could have
raised the flag and said I needhelp, but you didn't for longer
because of that identificationas capable?
Chela Davison (09:27):
I would say there were a couple of times,
sometimes we need to learnthings more than once, both of
which led to some significantburnouts. So there was a period
of time from 2014 to 2018ish inthere where I pivoted from
having my coaching company to Iwas the president of Integral
Coaching Canada. You mayremember this. I was Thank you.
(09:48):
Teaching, coaching, travelingfor teaching, and was in some
succession leadership successionplanning.
And I was so identified withbeing resilient and so wanted to
rise to the occasion and meetthe expectations and and meet my
role and handle what I wassupposed to handle that when I
(10:10):
started to feel the wheels of mycapacity coming off, it so
deeply threatened my identity ofbeing resilient that I just kept
I actually had a somaticexperience of turning on a
generator in my body. Like, Iwould just try to generate more
energy. It's like, there's morewhere that came from until there
(10:33):
wasn't. And, I mean, this iswhere a joke started to come
into our home where my husbandwould be like, it's like you get
up at 4AM and start sipping onthe workahol. Like if I can hear
you in the middle of the nightpacing, I'm like, Okay!
So there was like, yeah! He'svery funny. He's a very funny
man. So that was one, and then Iwould say there was a period
(10:53):
where there were a number oflosses. My husband had a number
of family losses, death in hisfamily, which flanked both sides
of us getting married and havinga baby, and buying a house, and
it was just like one thing afteranother thing after another
thing.
And in so many ways, it was likeall these dreams come true, but
(11:15):
the weight of them was a lot.And then the responsibility I
felt to feeding the wholeecosystem that I said I wanted,
that I had grown, that I hadpushed for, was just way too
much.
Kate Northrup (11:31):
So what did you do? Well
Chela Davison (11:36):
I sipped on some more alcohol.
Kate Northrup (11:38):
I just know that there's people listening saying
like, oh god, she's describingmy life.
Chela Davison (11:45):
Well I pushed for too far, too long for too far,
or too far for too long, andthen I started to hit a wall
where I looked around and Iwent, who am I willing to
disappoint to get my life back?And who am I willing to let down
(12:05):
to let get my life back? And thefirst person was me. And it was
like a series of choices, So Ipulled right back in my company,
I let go of team, I stoppedrunning things that I was
running, I reclaimed my creativelife force. I just said no.
I stopped doing things. Iwintered. Now I look back, and I
(12:28):
can actually look back on itwith a romantic sensibility.
Again, my hilarious husband willsay, Wow, you have this
twentytwenty vision. He'll evensay in times of crisis, Don't
worry.
In a year, you'll look back atthis as the best time.
Kate Northrup (12:41):
So it was the best time. So there was a time
in there, and I can't exactlyremember timelines, but I do
remember one conversation we hadafter a very long time of not
talking. I do happen to know itwas the 2019 because I was
somewhere about to do a speakinggig, and I was calling you
(13:03):
because I was on West Coasttime. I mean, East Coast time,
but I was on the West Coast. SoI was up early, you're an early
riser.
And we talked, and then therewas some other follow-up
conversation around that timewhen I was on some windy road. I
don't exactly remember, but youand I were having this semi
parallel but differentexperience in our lives where we
(13:23):
were feeling overburdened, underresourced, probably I'll just
speak for myself, I was feelingreally resentful, particularly
around Mike, particularly aroundthe business. I was caught in
this identity as breadwinner andfeeling really annoyed about
that. And we talked, and youwere having a similar
(13:46):
experience. Was that in that
Chela Davison (13:49):
time period? Would say my resentment unfolded
after that time. So it was closeto that time. And and by my
resentment meaning what I foundso fascinating about that
conversation, and what you justnamed, particularly around Mike
and breadwinning, is I rememberyou saying in that conversation,
it's interesting. We're havingit's like externally or
(14:10):
objectively, we are in verysimilar circumstances.
Owning our companies,breadwinning, young children.
But our stories about them werereally different. And at that
time, I had which it wasn'tuntil I started to say it out
loud in therapy that I was like,this is fucking absurd. But at
(14:31):
the time, so we had an agreementand a dream that Andrew was
going to take an extendedparental leave, and he's like
always wanted to be a dad, he isa total nurturer, and I wanted
to be able to go back to work,and I had all these identities
around not having to give up mycareer and all those things. And
(14:52):
at first it was like a dreamcome true, and then it started
to be really really hard, and Iwas so depleted, and things
weren't just I didn't have thesame as it goes.
And in that conversation, what Iremember going, oh, is I had
this belief, because he was alsodoing his master's at Harvard at
(15:16):
the time, and if I couldn't payfor all of our living expenses,
having just totally stretched topurchase our first home, which
was not much of a starter home,pay for him to go to school, pay
for any childcare in additionlike, if I couldn't if I
couldn't do all that, I wasfailing.
Kate Northrup (15:34):
Oh, yeah.
Chela Davison (15:34):
And and now I go, that's just like completely
unreasonable. But at the time,it was like, not only did I have
this resilience identity, I hadlike a I can make shit happen
identity. And I can be ofservice, and I can be joyful in
it, and if I'm not having a goodtime while doing all of that,
I'm also failing. And so all ofthose were like making things
(15:57):
very hard. Mhmm.
Yeah.
Kate Northrup (16:01):
I mean, hilariously, given the name of
your show, it's too much. It'stoo much. It's a little bit
much. It's too much.
Chela Davison (16:10):
Yeah. Can I ask you Of course? Okay.
Kate Northrup (16:13):
Know we're but like, I'd rather Great. Have a
Chela Davison (16:16):
for you in that time, because I remember that
conversation, and you saying in,oh, interesting. We have these
different stories, and I'm inresentment in, like, what it
would mean if you loved me as mypartner, and how that would
shift things. Yeah. But we'vealso talked about the illusion
of breadwinner
Kate Northrup (16:33):
versus I know that Mike is listening right now
because he is such a sweetie,and he listens to every single
podcast episode, and so I justwant you to know, Mike, this is
healing in action right now.Because I was talking with
Shayla before we startedrecording about this resentment
around the identity asbreadwinner, but how Mike and I
(16:55):
have had many follow-upconversations where he's like,
okay cool, and also here aresome literal things that were
going on financially that due toyour identity as essentially
downtrodden breadwinner, youwere not able to see. And that's
the thing about identity.
Chela Davison (17:16):
That's the thing. It's what's in your view, what's
out of your view. And Andrew andI, because he may or may not
listen to this,
Kate Northrup (17:23):
who knows? Who knows? But once I tell him I
talk about his ass, he probablywill.
Chela Davison (17:28):
The number of conversations we have had about,
well, guess downtrodden, like,oh, I guess I'll pay for
Kate Northrup (17:37):
that. Right.
Chela Davison (17:38):
It's like very martyr y. It's very martyr y,
but here's the thing that reallykind of blew something open for
me that was fascinating aroundenculturation, or how we we take
the dominant narratives ofculture, because what it felt
like Andrew and I wereconsciously doing and continue
to consciously do is really go,okay, what are we both called
(18:00):
to? What is our life's work?What is our family work? How do
we want to show up as partners?
And how do we want to do thatthat is within the norms or
outside of the norms? And sothere are a lot of ways that
we've challenged traditionalgender norms, and I identify as
a feminist, and part of thatincludes how he gets to show up
(18:21):
as a care worker and as adomestic partner, and he is
amazing as a domestic partner.But what I started to notice
during that time, at first,until I started to feel really
burnt out, I felt so supportedin being able to pursue my call
in how he was showing up in thehome. And then over time, I
(18:45):
started to value that I earnedmoney more than what he was
contributing to the mental andemotional labor. And there I'm
it doing more.
And it was super diminishing tohis contribution, which was
incredible, which I asked for,which I wanted. And so us in our
(19:08):
healing, in our endless therapy,
Kate Northrup (19:10):
and many other things that we have done to be
in
Chela Davison (19:12):
a very delightful spot in this moment, is is
actually unpacking that, and howthose unconscious beliefs that I
had, that he had, how theyimpacted how we valued me, how
we valued him, and actually Iwas in a place of ending up
resenting and diminishing hiscontribution in ways that I
(19:35):
would not have fucking toleratedin the opposite direction.
Kate Northrup (19:37):
Yeah. Isn't that wild? Yeah. You know, hello. The
patriarchy is inside of us.
Yeah. All of us. All of us. Andthe moment we start pointing
fingers is really like that'sjust a PSA. That's not for
Chela.
Chela Davison (19:55):
I think pointing fingers, or just any resentment
at all, you know, I think thatthat's part of what we started
to really unearth and work withover time, is like, if there is
a resentment living in us, whatis that about? And how do we
actually process it and move outof it? Which I feel like we've
really, I'm really proud of us.
Kate Northrup (20:15):
I'm so proud of We you talked during some dark
times.
Chela Davison (20:20):
Yeah, we did.
Kate Northrup (20:22):
Speaking of what is birthed in the darkness,
because all everything, all thebest stuff comes from there,
comes from the times when wethink we're not gonna make it,
comes from the times when it'sjust so constricted and so
contracted, and it's just like,You have made some pretty
dramatic shifts in the way youwork over the last couple of
years, and in fact, completeidentity. You don't identify as
(20:47):
a coach anymore. Is that true?What's true? Tell me what's
true.
Chela Davison (20:51):
Well gosh, I mean it's all feeling real fluid
right now, but I would saythat's a skill I have. Yes it
is. It is a skill I have, and Istill work with some people. But
that's not the my dominantidentity anymore. No.
It's true. And that has shiftedthrough what happened in the
(21:13):
dark. Actually, so shall I tellyou my story? Please. Okay.
Please do. Because I'm having somuch fun. So when I turned 40,
my husband bought me chickens.
Kate Northrup (21:25):
Did you ask for them?
Chela Davison (21:26):
I've I've wanted chickens for
Kate Northrup (21:27):
so long. Yeah. Because I'm like, if anyone ever
gives me a living animal for abirthday present, I would be
like Well, what was it? It itactually was part of
Chela Davison (21:36):
my undoing, because I wanted chickens really
badly, and so then I got thechickens, but I didn't have the
infrastructure for the chickens,and it was one of those dreams
meet reality, and I was like, mydesire to homestead in this
garden that I'm building andthese chickens that I have, it's
just one more make work projectthat I cannot sustain. And then
I unraveled, and that was rightbefore everything collapsed.
Kate Northrup (21:59):
You're a Gemini,
Chela Davison (22:00):
right?
Kate Northrup (22:00):
Uh-huh. When's your birthday?
Chela Davison (22:01):
05/31/1981. Cool. Moon and Taurus Scorpio rising,
Kate Northrup (22:06):
just in case you Oh yeah. Oh, so nice. Nice. Mike
says Scorpio rising too. Is he?
Chela Davison (22:10):
It's a good one. I I thought I was sad rising for
a long time because mystepmother changed my birth time
because she didn't think I couldbe Scorpio rising. That's So
much to unpack there.
Kate Northrup (22:20):
We don't need to starve. We don't need to say
that. Yay.
Chela Davison (22:23):
Yeah. So my mom my mother was like, I am correct
about your birth time, and hereit is in writing.
Kate Northrup (22:29):
Yes, given that I was the one There giving
Chela Davison (22:32):
does, Anyway, okay.
Kate Northrup (22:35):
Scorpio rising. So
Chela Davison (22:36):
true. Which, yeah, really, like, oh, no
wonder I like talking about thethings I like talking You
Kate Northrup (22:43):
like the depths.
Chela Davison (22:44):
I really like the depths.
Kate Northrup (22:46):
So yeah, you are really also a Gemini. You do it
in a really fun way.
Chela Davison (22:50):
Thank you. Thanks. Thanks. I really feel
like this is part of coming intobeing a middle age tag, which
clearly I'm not, but this is
Kate Northrup (22:58):
Seriously, you're not.
Chela Davison (23:01):
There's something in that though that I'm like
Kate Northrup (23:04):
Like it feels permissive for you on some
level. It must. It
Chela Davison (23:06):
does. It does. It And fun. And like, just I just
kinda wanna like And it's funnythem my way out of shit.
Kate Northrup (23:13):
True. Yeah. I guess. Yeah.
Chela Davison (23:15):
Yes. I mean, ask my husband some days. So anyway,
I part of the unraveling turning40 is I've always wanted to
write books. Now you wrote abook when you were 27. Good for
you.
I'm not jealous at all. But whenI turned 40
Kate Northrup (23:30):
You helped me, thanks. You're welcome.
Chela Davison (23:34):
This was part of my reckoning actually, is that
I've worked with lots ofauthors. Yes you have. I've
worked with lots of people whohave built very incredible,
lucrative businesses. I'vehelped people develop out bodies
of work. You've been majorbehind the scenes.
I've been major behind thescenes. For
Kate Northrup (23:52):
you listening, I just want you to know that Chela
has been behind the scenes ofmany of the people that you
follow and read and listen to.Yeah, thanks. Then I was like,
don't Hello? Where's my Chela?
Chela Davison (24:06):
Yeah. So I was like, I'm gonna go write a book,
and then I didn't. Okay. BecauseI wrote this show instead, kind
of by accident. And there was acourse, a friend of mine who's
been super influential, T.
J. Daw, in my writing career, mycreative practice for years. He
(24:27):
was like, hey, I'm doing my soloshow course. He's made a living
writing incredible solo shows.Cool.
And I was like, who has time forthat? I do, because I just burnt
my life down. And I reallywanted creative recovery. I
actually wanted something thatwas so outside of my business
that I wasn't trying to turninto something, that wasn't
going to be my next thing, andand now it's become my whole
(24:51):
life. But it was really thecreative process of writing this
show, which is now called ALittle Bit Much, its working
title at one point was Are YouThere, God, It's Me?
Existential Angst. Was like oneof the most incredible
experiences of creatingsomething, because it really
(25:12):
came through the dark, andreally came from listening to
what is this and what does itwant to become. So for most
things I've written, programsI've created, things I've
developed, there's like somevision out here, and then I'm
filling in this. For this, everyweek I had to show up with five
new minutes of material, most ofthe time it was by the seat of
(25:34):
my pants, piecing somethingtogether. And then by the end of
twelve weeks, I had about anhour ish of things.
And I started to comb through itand go, what is this about? What
is it saying? And I ended upspending about two years on this
project, and it like, was themost playful, enlivening,
(25:58):
healing, reclamative, is that aword?
Kate Northrup (26:03):
Mhmm. I like it.
Chela Davison (26:04):
Great. Experience. Yeah. It's been
super fun. Wow.
So creative recovery.
Kate Northrup (26:13):
Yeah. There's a concept I talk about that's
inspired by regenerativefarming, which is I think a
mutual love I'm that wecurrently not tending to any
plants, but I think you are.
Chela Davison (26:26):
I am, I am. My garden's a little sad, but I got
some indoor puppies that areokay.
Kate Northrup (26:30):
But you have one. Yeah. They have one. I am
currently not personallyresponsible for any plants. In
fact, just before the episodestarted, I plucked one dead
plant off the set because Icannot even keep an air plant
alive.
But I do love gardening andfarming metaphors. So the
(26:50):
metaphor is, in regenerativeagriculture there's this concept
of cover crops, and cover cropsare things that are planted that
are not to be taken for sale. Sothey are not commercial crops,
they are cover crops, and theyare planted to regenerate the
nutrients in the soil and to reenliven the humus, the layers of
(27:14):
topsoil, so that later onthey're more fertile and richer,
but the cover crops are justthere. And so I'm thinking about
that in terms of your creativerecovery and creating something
that was not meant to be takento market, at least not at
first. And I'm wondering whatcame up for you as you were
(27:36):
doing that as someone who's sogood at building things that are
marketable.
Chela Davison (27:41):
Yeah. It was just like a deep relief. It was a
deep relief, and it also let mebe in emergent ways of playing
that felt vulnerable. So firstof all, as somebody, even though
I'm outgoing and expressive andmy career has been in service of
(28:01):
people and in service of theirlife's work. And so to write a
one woman show felt so indulgentand super selfish.
Really? Yeah. It was like, whywould like, who do you think you
are? But what was interesting iswhen I went into the course, I
was like, oh, I'm I'm with awhole bunch of people who are
writing solo shows, and so andit's kind of bananas to think
(28:23):
back to that even having feltlike a thing a few years ago,
but at the time, it was justlike yeah. It just felt
uncomfortable.
If I couldn't hook what I wasdoing to how it was going to be
of service, it felt notvaluable. We can unpack that in
so many ways. And so it justfelt, like, really close in, and
(28:47):
the different there were so manymonologues or pieces,
explorations that never made itinto the show that ended up
being off theme. Some that Iwould even pull in to share with
other people in the groupbecause there was something I
could feel needed to be healedthrough the telling of the
story. Yeah.
But I knew it wasn't gonna stay.So the whole process was like
(29:07):
excavation, healing, selfexpression, play, and then the
medium too, like the show itselfis, it's a mix of storytelling,
but it's funny. It's very funny.Thanks. But it also makes me
cry.
That is now when you say, Do younot identify as being a coach
anymore? This is what, if that'sall I did, was have people cry
(29:30):
and laugh in very short periodsof time, like same sentence?
That's the dream. There'ssomething that that has done,
and now that it is out in theworld, it's been this really
interesting experience of like,this is for me, I'm letting it
heal something in me. I'm I'mreclaiming parts of my
expression that in professionalcontext, and I still show up in
(29:51):
professional context, and I'mlike, not gonna drop c bombs
there because I'm a grown up.
But on my stage and in my show,I can, and I do. And so that's
like, is really enlivening, andit moves a lot of creative
energy to take risks and play.
Kate Northrup (30:07):
It's very Scorpio rising.
Chela Davison (30:08):
It's very Scorpio rising.
Kate Northrup (30:10):
Have you always been, well I guess you did say
that as a child you wouldsometimes say things that were
just bold. My question actuallyis were you always kind of
mouthy?
Chela Davison (30:23):
Yeah I was. I I was. Was.
Kate Northrup (30:25):
Yeah. Like, you you were just born that way, or
did you grow up in anenvironment where it was
encouraged or modeled?
Chela Davison (30:31):
Both of those things. K. Both of those So in
my show, actually, I tell thisstory, which my aunt and uncle
came to the show, and after theysaid, I remember when that
happened. I remember when yourfather called us and told us
what he did, and we were like,you said what? So I made a
comment in class when my teacherwouldn't let me go to the
bathroom.
Oh yeah. Where I said, fine,I'll just bleed all over this
(30:55):
chair then.
Kate Northrup (30:57):
Which was like so How old were you when you said
that?
Chela Davison (31:00):
15 or 16? Tenth Tenth grade. So good.
Kate Northrup (31:04):
It's so good. I was
Chela Davison (31:05):
so mouthy. Oh no, I was like, I wanted to get
condoms in school and do a playabout it, and the principal was
like, no, and I was like me meme me. And my father, when he
was called in to reprimand me,said, you're just gonna have
Kate Northrup (31:19):
to figure out how to deal with
Chela Davison (31:20):
her because I'm not gonna squelch your self
expression, And things will goeasier for you if you work with
her instead of against her. Andso that was like and my mom my
mom's like, I don't love the sexstuff in your show, but I'm so
proud of it. Like my That's sofunny.
Kate Northrup (31:36):
Yeah. I don't love it, but I'm so proud of
Chela Davison (31:38):
it. She's so proud
Kate Northrup (31:39):
That's of perfect.
Chela Davison (31:41):
Is perfect. So there's a way that I and I got
all sorts of messages that I wastoo much, that I talked too
much, that I was too bossy.Those came from all directions
too, but my parents were reallyreally determined to let me be
who I was, and to find ways tolet that express.
Kate Northrup (32:02):
So it sounds like the messages about being too
much were not mostly coming fromyour parents. No. Maybe a little
bit from time to time, butpretty much not?
Chela Davison (32:12):
Pretty much not. Pretty much not. Like some kind
of, you know, like there wasChela, pull your aura in, your
energy is all over this house,that was a staple.
Kate Northrup (32:19):
Oh my goodness. Know, they'd get overwhelmed and
be
Chela Davison (32:24):
like, god, this is a lot. You know, my stepmom
would be like, this is
Kate Northrup (32:27):
a lot. So
Chela Davison (32:27):
I'm fucking lot of energy, and so when that, you
know, and through myadolescence, all my brothers,
friends, none of them hadsisters, they were all just
like, what is happening? I was awhirlwind of a force. And I
started to see the ways thatthat didn't work or didn't
(32:48):
honour people. Because while I'malso that, through my teen years
I had friends who were like, welove you being around our
parents, and I had other onesthat were like, you cannot be
around my parents. You say shityou're not supposed to say in
front of parents.
Kate Northrup (33:00):
And I'm like,
Chela Davison (33:01):
you're not supposed to say this in front of
parents?
Kate Northrup (33:02):
Because at your house you could.
Chela Davison (33:03):
I could say things. So you're not supposed
to be like, oh I lost myvirginity last night, or we did
a bunch of shrooms on Saturday.You don't say those things.
Kate Northrup (33:10):
At other people's houses.
Chela Davison (33:10):
At other people's houses. So there became a point
where I started to see whatsociety expected, but I also
care. I really care about otherpeople's experiences.
Kate Northrup (33:26):
Yeah, you're a very attuned person. There are
people who are a little bit muchwho just bulldoze every
situation they're in, and theydon't actually care. That's
Chela Davison (33:37):
not me. That's not me. No. And so that was
something that I had to learnthe capacities to calibrate my
energy. Because a lot of theexpression wasn't about trying
to impact or trying to bulldoze.
It would just kind of spill out,you know? And so I'm like oh
okay.
Kate Northrup (33:57):
It's like confetti. Yeah, so
Chela Davison (33:58):
I actually learned energetic practices to
expand my being, to contain myenergy, to be able to receive
people, to make sure I'm notpressing my energy into the
space. And having worked fordecades in lots of relational
spaces, I'm really good at that.So it's like a nice range. But
to be
Kate Northrup (34:18):
able to do that, I don't think most people are
able to both ebb and flow incommunity, in professional
spaces, in all sorts of spaces,while also keeping their
muchness. And you have. Seem to.And that's really something. Oh
thanks.
(34:38):
You know, because most peoplejust like it's either they're
too much or they squash it.
Chela Davison (34:41):
Yeah. Yeah, I don't think I, I mean there's
definitely times, I wouldn't sayit was squashing, but in periods
where I wanted to really honormy responsibilities and the
people who depend on me, therewas a containing in a way that
actually squashed creativealiveness. So not squashed
(35:02):
expression so much, but likeCreative aliveness. Creative
aliveness and dampened energy,and really felt like a grind and
a slog for a long time. Yeah.
But not so much suppressed. Butdefinitely working to, I think,
big edge for me and one forpeople who are a lot of
(35:23):
muchness. Because one of theinteresting things that's
happened is since doing thisshow, people are like, oh, I'm
too much too. And it's like,yeah, let's do that. And also,
what is our impact on people?
And people who don't have that,because there are a lot of
people who are like, I've alwaysfelt like I'm not enough, and I
want to take up more space. Buthow do I take up space when
(35:43):
other people are taking all thespace? And so that's something
that feels really important tome, is to sense and feel who are
the people who actually want tocome out more, who don't feel
safe to do that, and how do we,as big energy people, make it
safe and make room and containourselves in ways that allow
(36:06):
people to feel safe and seen andself expressed? Because self
expression isn't just It's notlike just explosions.
Kate Northrup (36:17):
You are the first person who taught me about the
Enneagram, and we are bothsevens. Yes. And while everybody
who is told they're too much isnot a seven by any means, I am
curious, my own experience ofbeing a maturing seven, as I go
(36:39):
through my life, is that there'ssomething around the energetics
of being able to sit with my ownenthusiasm, my own desire to
tell, for example, Mike 35 ideasin fifteen seconds, and hold it
(37:00):
but not tamp it down, but alsonot vomit all over him with my
ideas. And I'm curious if youcan speak to that in yourself.
You spoke to it a little bit,but for example, in the time
that you were in that twelveweeks with your friend in this
(37:20):
one person show class, whateverit was called, right?
Was there a desire to shootthese tendrils of creativity out
and turn this into something? Orreally, had you developed your
capacity to hold your toes tothe discomfort of staying and
not doing a million things bythat time that you could just
(37:40):
actually savor the sweetness ofletting it be creative recovery?
Chela Davison (37:46):
Yeah, think I was really able to do that. I was
really able to do that for a fewreasons. One, could call it a
healthy integration to five,which is Okay. An Enneagram What
Kate Northrup (37:59):
does that mean?
Chela Davison (38:01):
Five being the investigator, so one of the
healthy integrations of seven israther than chasing experiences,
moving into the next thing, andthe next thing, and the next
thing, and having our energy gooutward, is an ability to
actually focus and go in, and gointo depth. Yeah. To prune the
number of things, all of that.I'd say during that time though,
(38:22):
honestly, I was just too tiredto turn it into something. So I
actually didn't have thatimpulse at the time also, that
was during the two and a halfyears that I was not on social
media.
Kate Northrup (38:32):
Oh yeah!
Chela Davison (38:33):
Which was like very good for When my depth did
you go off? I went off in 2021.It was my fortieth birthday gift
to myself. And I was off for twoand a half years. So that whole,
there was just not a lot ofnoise.
There wasn't a lot of static.And there was something about
(38:55):
the process itself that was sonourishing, I didn't feel like
doing something with it. And itkind of remarkable to feel the
way I wanted to keep coming backto it. And then I did a couple
of readings, and I just keptwanting to come back to it. And
it's the probably the longestI've worked on something.
Like, else I've done from startto to start to birthing,
(39:18):
incubation to being tasted bythe world, has been very short
time horizons. And this one tooka couple of years before I got
it on stage. And the value ofthat for how proud I am of it as
a piece of work is due to depthwork and staying What with
Kate Northrup (39:38):
do you recommend when folks are sitting in the
desire to start something newwhen they haven't actually
followed through on the thingthey already began?
Chela Davison (39:48):
Well, that really depends on the person. Totally.
That's a tricky one, because Ithink there's tremendous value
in following where the energyis. Yeah, I think there's
tremendous value in that. And infact, I'd started, like I said,
I'd started working on a bookproposal.
Was looking to hire somebody todo that, and then I ended up
being like, I'm sorry. There'sjust no energy here. I'm
(40:10):
Canadian. I'm sorry.
Kate Northrup (40:14):
I'm Canadian. That
Chela Davison (40:18):
is how we say hello and goodbye. Yeah. I'm so
sorry. I'm not gonna do thatthing. Yes.
Right.
Kate Northrup (40:23):
I'm I'm not yeah. Because you followed the energy.
Chela Davison (40:25):
Because I followed the energy, and so but
I also tried so and I had somedeep questions. Is this just a
form of resistance to the book?Which I don't which now that
I've written the show, I'm inthe midst of working very
dedicatedly on turning the showinto a book proposal.
Kate Northrup (40:39):
Oh cool!
Chela Davison (40:40):
Which is really fun, and asking like oh what
does it want to be now? Becauseit's got a whole other entity
coming in. It's cool. But Ithink for folks, you know, if I
just put on my little coach hatfor a moment, what I've been
doing with people for decades ishelping to develop capacities to
(41:00):
be able to close that gapbetween our current patterning
and the kind of patterning wewould have if we could realise
the things that we most want torealise. And so for someone who
primarily, as a habitualpattern, follows the energy of
new, or if we were to talk aboutregenerative farming language,
follows the energy of spring,that there's just more juice
(41:22):
there.
And then before that thing takesroot or gets finished, there's a
tendency to bounce towards thenext thing. That actually
creates a lot of creativesuffering. Because we don't
trust ourselves to carrysomething all the way through,
and we don't ever get to harvestthe fruits of our labor. And so
(41:42):
if that's a patterning, what Iwould say is stay with the thing
even when the energy isn'tthere, and learn how to stay,
learn how to take your seat. Andonce you do that, I find, and
I've seen in many people, isonce you get past the hump
because typically theinspiration has we could even
(42:04):
call it creative energy, Eros,the way it starts is really
exciting.
It's really magnetic. It givesus a lot of fuel. But then as it
starts to get hard, as we startto wrestle, the things, will
this be any good? Is it going tocome together? Like actually, we
want to play with metaphors,actually birthing the contracted
(42:24):
period of bringing a human intolife is painful.
There are questions of can I dothis, and will I get through
this? And those come up in thecreative process. Is this a
piece of shit? Will anybody likeit? It seems so brilliant in my
dark cave, but as I start tobring it out, you know?
So all of those things come up,and if we can't stay with and
(42:47):
both know that those questionsare normal, stay with the
challenges of those, then thingsaren't going to see the light of
day. And so with this show, Iwent through all of those
things, and then I did readings,I got feedback, I worked with
TJ, who helped word by word, andthen I performed it. And it's
still in its infancy. I've onlyperformed it 35 times. It's
(43:09):
starting to get traction.
Kate Northrup (43:10):
Sounds like so many times. I know. Well I
remember when I think it's 35.What? I know.
Chela Davison (43:16):
Well, when TJ first said by your thirtieth or
thirty fifth, that's when you'rereally gonna start to know the
show. And I was like, oh, I'mgonna perform this show. So
there was a point where I didn'tYou didn't because when you were
writing
Kate Northrup (43:26):
it, you weren't writing it to perform it. You
were just writing it to write
Chela Davison (43:29):
it. I was writing it to write it. Then I was like,
I guess, right. You perform ashow after you write it, you
know. And after the first time Iperformed it, I was like, oh, I
have something.
And so there were many momentswhere while writing I went, oh I
think I have something here. Andthen, oh I don't think I have
something here. And then, oh Ithink I have something here. And
(43:49):
then what is this indulgentpiece of garbage? And then, oh I
think I have something here.
And then is this just like aflaming pile of dung heat? Oh I
Kate Northrup (43:55):
think I
Chela Davison (43:55):
just And so being able to stay with those rides
and waves, and get help, and getfeedback, and then trust myself.
It's been really fun. And nowthat it's in the world, I've
gotten to part of what I've beendoing with this, or any creative
project, is there's what I thinkit is, and then letting myself
(44:16):
be surprised by what it wants tobecome. So what it became for
me, and then what I've seen itbe for others, has been
fascinating. Letting people tellme what the show is, and what it
means to them, and how it'simpacted them, and the diversity
of experiences has been somoving.
(44:38):
I mean that's what art is for.Turns out. Turns out.
Kate Northrup (44:42):
Turns It's for the artist. Yeah. And coming
back around to what you saidabout, oh, is this self
indulgent? Oh, it's notexplicitly to be in service. I
want to dig in there a littlebit because in the end you have
taken it to stage 35 times andit continue to go around the
(45:04):
world, but you did it for you toheal parts of yourself that
needed to be healed.
And so one could very easilyargue that that alone is a
service because now there's amore integrated human mothering,
wifeing, being a friend, being acoach, being all the things that
(45:26):
you are in the world. But thenalso people get to receive you
and receive your stories andthey make them laugh and cry.
Your show is so smart and sofunny and so poignant. And also
you say things that I'm like, itnot a dissimilar experience to
(45:51):
reading my friend LauraBelgrave's book Tough Titties,
where I was like, oh, wow, youjust said that. That's the best.
Because I don't say things likethat, but I want to be able to,
and so you doing it is verypermissive and expansive for me.
Whether I will start sayingthose things or not is to be
known, but it's fun to bearound.
Chela Davison (46:13):
Thank you. I appreciate that, Patricia.
Kate Northrup (46:15):
But I'm curious now knowing where it's going
today at this point, what do youthink about that conversation
about it being of service
Chela Davison (46:24):
now? Oh it's definitely of service. And
what's been interesting is, soas you know, part of what I've
been doing in my coaching for avery long time is I play at the
intersection of calling, likehelping people to realise their
calling. And part of why I didthis is I was helping people to
realise their calling, and Iwasn't doing that for myself.
(46:45):
And so I felt like a gianthypocrite and totally out of
integrity, so I'm like, ohbetter pivot and do this thing.
And so what's been sofascinating is to uncouple the
belief that somehow being ofservice is to martyr going back
to that, Is to martyr, is togive of ourselves, is like, oh,
I've got to work so hard, andthen I'm contributing. Like, oh,
(47:06):
that's not a very regenerativeway of thinking about our
contribution. And so what's beenreally cool is having the
embodied experience of the morejoyful, the more playful, the
more self expressed, the moreit's just for me, the more it
seems to contribute and make adifference. And it's also just a
very different scale, becauseI'm used to working in-depth
(47:28):
spaces and one on one and smallgroups, and so to be on a stage
with hundreds of people, butthen have people come and tell
me what has happened since,that's been the part that I
didn't expect, and I didn'tknow. And yes, I say things, and
I'm like embracing the part thatkind of like, yes I just said
(47:52):
that.
Kate Northrup (47:52):
Yeah, totally just said that. How was that for
you?
Chela Davison (47:56):
But it's like, as a craft, I think that's the part
that I'm the most excited about,is that when you can say
something that is shocking, butspeaks to, as some people have
described it, that's the thingyou think inside but you never
say outside, It creates a formof connection and intimacy, and
(48:18):
then you have humour, whichopens people up. And then you
have depth and vulnerability,which connects people deeply in.
So it wasn't like I well clearlyI did not strategically set out
to do that, but now I'm like oh,that's what that's doing. And
now as people write to me, awoman came up in a coffee shop
(48:39):
and was like I saw your show,and I feel like for the first
time I really like myself andfeel like I have permission to
just be how I am. And we're justlike weeping in a coffee shop
together.
My cousin extended her matleave, another woman finally
told her husband she wanted togo back to work, a man came up
to me and said, I want to go getto know my wife better, teenage
(49:02):
boys have come and said theyunderstand their mother better.
It's been a very moving,unexpected experience. And a lot
of people are like, wow, it's sobrave. Which is the worst I'm
like, is it? Should I not havesaid those things?
(49:23):
Why is it brave?
Kate Northrup (49:24):
That's hilarious.
Chela Davison (49:25):
It was really unsettled the first few times
that people told me it wasbrave. And now I get it, I get
what is being said. But it'sreally encouraging for me,
because it makes me want to keepbeing braver. I think one of the
things that can happen whenyou're in public is that you
(49:47):
share something, and if it'svulnerable, and it's real, and
it's authentic, and it hits, andthen there starts being
attention for that. There can bea like, oh now I've got a it's
like how quickly Persona wantsto come so I feel like my work
is to just keep moving that outand looking for new brave edges
(50:09):
for myself.
And because it seems to reallyhelp. And the way the world is,
I feel like as much honest artas we can possibly have right
now.
Kate Northrup (50:22):
Percent. And also that piece that you said that at
least as a creator myself, itmakes me feel much more relaxed,
is listening for what it wantsto become as opposed to setting
it out. That's why for mewriting a book proposal was
torturous because it's thisillusion. That I have any
(50:46):
freaking idea what it is, right?As though when you're pregnant
you're like, Oh I know exactlywhat this kid's gonna be like as
an adult.
Like, No, you don't. That's whatso many of the structures around
creativity require when creationand commerce intersect, Which is
(51:14):
why I just really love that youcreated this to start with for
you. Thank you. Yeah. It'sreally beautiful.
Chela Davison (51:22):
Yeah. It's it's felt really good. And I I'd like
to actually just say somethingabout that for folks who because
I think that this piece of artand commerce intersecting, it's
been such a journey for me, butit's also been a big journey in
the creatives. Like I started acommunity of practice where we
show up and we write together,called the Creative Cauldron
(51:42):
because I wasn't getting my assin my seat and doing shit. So I
was like, oh, better if I ifother people are expecting if I
have to show up for otherpeople, I'll show up for myself.
I'll do it. In talking withother people too, some of the
things that come up aroundcreativity so much, especially
for those of us who are online alot, is what we receive and what
(52:03):
we see and what we're taking in,what we're consuming are
people's finished products. Andwe don't see what goes into
that, and we don't see what'sbehind the scenes of that, and
we can consciously know that,but it doesn't matter, because
when we have that amount comingin, what it feels like in the
animal of our body is like, Ishould just be able to do that.
(52:26):
And then what we're measuring isour inner process, what happens
in the dark, what happens in thedepths, against out there. And
so one of the biggest, thequickest way to dry up the
creative pussy is to think howis this going to be received, is
to be in any kind ofperformative state in thinking
(52:48):
about outcome first, and it'sreally hard not to do that.
And so there's like and with thespeed of things, it can feel
like and I'm in this all thetime. I don't have time. I don't
have space. Time scarcity is areal thing. I'm constantly
trying to push space out to beable to let things take the time
(53:09):
they take.
And that was one of the gifts ofthis show, is I didn't have
deadlines and outcomes, and soit took years. And now it feels
like, oh, that happened realquick. That just was a massive
transition that happened veryfast on the other side of it.
But when I was in it, it justfelt deep and slow because I
(53:30):
wasn't trying to make it intosomething. And that's really,
really hard to do.
Kate Northrup (53:36):
Yeah. It is. But it seems like it's worth it. I
think so.
Chela Davison (53:40):
And I think too, what I'm worried about even as
I'm saying that is that this isyou know when you hear people
tell a story, it's like, ohyeah, this is like I have an
outcome of a show that is wellreceived that is out in the
world. And so then it canactually sound like, Oh, go do
this thing and then you'll getthese results. But the aliveness
(54:04):
and the joy and the healing andthe pleasure that has come
through this process happenedbefore that hit the stage. And
to me, that if I can leavepeople with anything is making
art and being creative is notjust our birthright, it's a
human need. And we have to doit, whether it goes somewhere or
(54:27):
not.
Absolutely,
Kate Northrup (54:29):
and I will just add to that, that creative
expression is actually one ofthe most effective nervous
system healing tools. Crafting,making a balloon animal.
Chela Davison (54:45):
Those little stress coloring books, I've got
Kate Northrup (54:47):
a friend who got 11 of those for Christmas one
year.
Chela Davison (54:49):
I'm like somebody's telling you
something.
Kate Northrup (54:51):
That's hilarious. Anything. Making sourdough,
making mocktails, whatever.Making a tower out of sugar
packets at a diner, it actually,it's really healing. It's just
really important for our abilityto be here.
(55:12):
To give ourselves permission tocreate whether it is ever seen,
experienced, witnessed byanother human, whether you ever
tell about it or not. It'sworthwhile in and of itself
because it feels good, but italso is very healing for the
nervous system.
Chela Davison (55:27):
Beautiful, I love that.
Kate Northrup (55:29):
I love you, Kayla.
Chela Davison (55:30):
I love you, Kay.
Kate Northrup (55:30):
Okay, so where can people look to come see your
show to learn more about yourcreative containers?
Chela Davison (55:39):
Yeah, yeah. Probably my website's a good
spot. Great. Chaeladavison.com,and then I have a sub stack,
which you can find through mywebsite, and it's called
Wizdotainment.
Kate Northrup (55:50):
Oh yeah! Yeah. That word is so That was the
wisdom enthusiasm. I know. Ijust, when you said
Wizdotainment to me for thefirst time, I think it was in a
voice memo, and I just was like,Jaila has created a complete
genre fresh.
Fresh genre. Fresh genre. Freshgenre. Wizdotainment.
(56:11):
Wizdotainment.
So good, and the show, I mean, Idon't know that I said this, but
I loved it so much. Thank you.
Chela Davison (56:18):
Thank you.
Kate Northrup (56:19):
It's brilliant. Thanks. Yeah. Just like you.
Thank you.
Thanks for being here.
Chela Davison (56:23):
Thanks for having me.
Kate Northrup (56:33):
Subscribe, leave a rating, leave a review. That's
one of the best ways that youcan ensure to spread the
abundance of Plenty with others.You can even text it to a friend
and tell them to listen in. Andif you want even more support to
expand your abundance, head overto
katenorthrop.com/breakthroughswhere you can grab my free money
(56:57):
breakthrough guide that detailsthe biggest money breakthroughs
from some of the top earningwomen I know, plus a mini lesson
accompanying it with my ownbiggest money breakthroughs and
a nervous system healing toolfor you to expand your
abundance. Again, that's over atkatenorthwick.com/breakthroughs.
(57:20):
See you next time.
I was so identified with being resilient
(00:03):
and so wanted to rise to theoccasion and meet the
expectations and and meet myrole and handle what I was
supposed to handle that when Istarted to feel like the wheels
of my capacity coming off, it sodeeply threatened my identity of
being resilient that I just keptlike I actually had a a somatic
(00:23):
experience of like turning on agenerator in my body.
Kate Northrup (00:26):
Hello. Today on the podcast, I have the woman
who was my coach while I waswriting Money, a Love Story when
I was like 27, 28, 29, somewherein that range. She helped me so
much at that time and then webecame friends. She was at my
(00:48):
wedding. We have voice memoedback and forth over over a
decade since that time.
We've had parallel paths in alot of ways and in this
conversation, conversation,you're going to hear the
incredible story of how she gaveherself permission to go into
creative recovery and birth themost incredible one woman show.
(01:14):
And in this episode, we talkabout taking our cues from the
seasons. We talk about covercrops. We talk about marriage
and money and the illusion ofbreadwinning, which was a pretty
poignant moment for both of us,and what it's like to be a
little bit much in the world. Soenjoy this episode with the
(01:37):
absolutely incredible, SheilaDavidson.
Welcome to Plenty. I'm your hostKate Northrup and together we
are going on a journey to helpyou have an incredible
relationship with money, time,and energy. And to have
abundance on every possiblelevel. Every week, we're gonna
(01:59):
dive in with experts andinsights to help you unlock a
life of plenty. Let's go fillour cups.
Disclaimer (02:08):
Please note that the opinions and perspectives of the
guests on the Plenty podcast arenot necessarily reflective of
the opinions and perspectives ofKate Northrup or anyone who
works within the Kate Northrupbrand.
Kate Northrup (02:20):
Hey. Hi. Welcome. Thanks. Thanks for coming all
the way here.
Chela Davison (02:24):
Oh, thanks for having me.
Kate Northrup (02:25):
My god. I'm so excited to talk to you. It's
lovely. That's great. Okay.
So because folks listening don'tknow this, you were my coach
when I was 27. And that's been awhile. That's a long time ago.
Chela Davison (02:42):
We've known
Kate Northrup (02:43):
each other a really long time. You coached me
through the year. I was writingMoney, a Love Story. Yeah. That
was so fun.
And you are, what do you call itin that form of integral
coaching, the invitation ofwhere you're going?
Chela Davison (02:59):
New way of being,
Kate Northrup (03:00):
thank you. Yeah, welcome. My new way of being was
taking my seat, which I feellike just this year. Mean in
many ways I've taken my seatsince then, but there's been
some new stuff just at thistime. I think that's an
interesting thing about beingover 40, and finally being like,
(03:21):
oh wait, I'm not new.
Okay. I'm curious for you,you've had a lot of different
meanderings since then andevolutions of your career and
your business, and we'll talkabout those, but I do want to
know for you, have you foundsince turning 40 that there's a
level of like, oh, here I am.
Chela Davison (03:44):
Yes. Yeah. And it's weird because I would say,
like when I look back, you know,my husband will always be like,
I don't I still don't feel likea grown up. I mean, is a grown
up man to me, he's like, nobodyfeels like a grown up. And I'm
like, I have felt like a grownup Really?
Since I was Oh yeah. No, I neverfelt new. So it's an interesting
(04:07):
through my twenties I felt,yeah, I felt mature for my age,
I felt solid in what I wasdoing. In certain ways, since
turning 40, I feel less solid.Cool.
In in very cool ways. Yeah. Butyeah, it's interesting to think
back and go, like, I actuallyalways felt pretty right here
with what I was doing, but sinceturning 40, there's kind of a
(04:30):
like, oh this can actually beway more fun. So there's almost
like a throwback to ayouthfulness that love threw my
so much, Scott.
Kate Northrup (04:42):
Also because we started our relationship only by
phone when I was your client, Ialmost said your student, but
whatever, same thing. Whatever.I just assumed you were
significantly older than me. Ohyeah? And then when we were
ending our coaching package,somehow I realized that you were
two years older than me, orthree maybe.
Chela Davison (05:05):
See, it's my old vibe.
Kate Northrup (05:06):
I was like woah, I would call it a wisdom vibe.
Chela Davison (05:10):
Okay thanks, that's way better.
Kate Northrup (05:11):
You do not have old vibes at all. And in fact, I
will say when you refer toyourself as a midlife hag, we'll
get to that. I'm just like,that's not how I experience you
Chela Davison (05:25):
Oh, thank God.
Kate Northrup (05:26):
At all. And I'm curious about that Okay, well
I'm putting a pin for poundingback because I really wanna come
back. I really wanna come back.So you have felt like an adult
from the time you were ateenager.
Chela Davison (05:41):
Yeah. Maybe even younger. I mean, had I had seeds
planted, and I'm sure we'll getto this when we talk about the
show and all of that, of thestories that were told about who
we are and what we start toidentify with. And so I always
had these nudges or ways ofbeing related to as an old soul.
Right.
Or, you know, having wisdom orBy your
Kate Northrup (06:03):
parents, by other people in your community, by
teachers. All. All.
Chela Davison (06:07):
I was always precocious, outgoing, said
things that maybe you weren'tsupposed to say, but not in an
obnoxious way, but I also in waskind of paying attention in
attuned kind of way. So I gotthis messaging that I saw
things. Uh-huh.
Kate Northrup (06:24):
Yeah. Helpful, harmful, somewhere in between?
Chela Davison (06:27):
I would say mostly helpful. Mostly helpful.
Yeah. I think there weredefinitely ways that I picked up
responsibilities that over timethat calcified into some
heaviness, but overall helpful.
Kate Northrup (06:38):
I mean the reason I ask that is because our nine
year old is very with it. Very.Like she's ready to run a small
country. And if it weresocietally appropriate, she's
ready also to babysit. Like muchsmall you know, smaller
children.
And I tell her, you know, howsmart and with it she is. And as
(07:03):
someone who was also very smartand with it as a child, I'm just
curious, like, other people'sexperiences, like, is that
useful for children to havereflected?
Chela Davison (07:15):
I think so. I mean it was for me. It felt
empowering. I felt like I couldgo do things, that I would be
capable, that there would bepeople who were at my back as
well. I think there was a wayyou know there were times when
my mom was like, I didn't reallyknow how to parent you because
you just kind of parentedyourself.
But then she was there to fallback on, so it was like a sweet
(07:36):
balance. I think the risk isknowing when you don't have it
together, when you're not withit. Because I also hit like a
lot of success markers early on.Yeah.
Kate Northrup (07:47):
Right, because you started your salon when you
were 19. 19, and ran that verysuccessfully for how many years?
Eight years. And then you soldit?
Chela Davison (07:55):
And then I sold it?
Kate Northrup (07:56):
Yeah. For like you
Chela Davison (07:57):
sold it? Good chunk
Kate Northrup (07:58):
So you sold your first company for a good chunk
of cash when you were 27.
Chela Davison (08:02):
Or 20 Somewhere in there. Whatever, seven. Yeah
27, a year after I had my firstson. And then my marriage broke
down within a couple years ofthat, and so that experience
even, I had enough money formultiple years I had multiple
years income, so I retrained incoaching. I was a single mother.
I was able to support myself andmy son. Like I had a lot of
(08:26):
experience of being capable withit, successful, And so in
certain ways, I identified asbeing very resilient. And as
things unfolded and got morecomplicated, as I hit things
that were harder and morechallenging and couldn't just
make shit happen in the sameway, it was really disorienting
(08:48):
and confronting So and I thinkthat for our littles, for us,
for our little ones, to also beable to know that being with it,
and being bright, and beingcapable is a part of who you
are, but it's not all of who youare, and it's also okay to be
vulnerable, to not know, Yeah.To ask for
Kate Northrup (09:09):
to raise the flag and be like, I'm drowning here.
When was a moment for you whenyou realized that you could have
raised the flag and said I needhelp, but you didn't for longer
because of that identificationas capable?
Chela Davison (09:27):
I would say there were a couple of times,
sometimes we need to learnthings more than once, both of
which led to some significantburnouts. So there was a period
of time from 2014 to 2018ish inthere where I pivoted from
having my coaching company to Iwas the president of Integral
Coaching Canada. You mayremember this. I was Thank you.
(09:48):
Teaching, coaching, travelingfor teaching, and was in some
succession leadership successionplanning.
And I was so identified withbeing resilient and so wanted to
rise to the occasion and meetthe expectations and and meet my
role and handle what I wassupposed to handle that when I
(10:10):
started to feel the wheels of mycapacity coming off, it so
deeply threatened my identity ofbeing resilient that I just kept
I actually had a somaticexperience of turning on a
generator in my body. Like, Iwould just try to generate more
energy. It's like, there's morewhere that came from until there
(10:33):
wasn't. And, I mean, this iswhere a joke started to come
into our home where my husbandwould be like, it's like you get
up at 4AM and start sipping onthe workahol. Like if I can hear
you in the middle of the nightpacing, I'm like, Okay!
So there was like, yeah! He'svery funny. He's a very funny
man. So that was one, and then Iwould say there was a period
(10:53):
where there were a number oflosses. My husband had a number
of family losses, death in hisfamily, which flanked both sides
of us getting married and havinga baby, and buying a house, and
it was just like one thing afteranother thing after another
thing.
And in so many ways, it was likeall these dreams come true, but
(11:15):
the weight of them was a lot.And then the responsibility I
felt to feeding the wholeecosystem that I said I wanted,
that I had grown, that I hadpushed for, was just way too
much.
Kate Northrup (11:31):
So what did you do? Well
Chela Davison (11:36):
I sipped on some more alcohol.
Kate Northrup (11:38):
I just know that there's people listening saying
like, oh god, she's describingmy life.
Chela Davison (11:45):
Well I pushed for too far, too long for too far,
or too far for too long, andthen I started to hit a wall
where I looked around and Iwent, who am I willing to
disappoint to get my life back?And who am I willing to let down
(12:05):
to let get my life back? And thefirst person was me. And it was
like a series of choices, So Ipulled right back in my company,
I let go of team, I stoppedrunning things that I was
running, I reclaimed my creativelife force. I just said no.
I stopped doing things. Iwintered. Now I look back, and I
(12:28):
can actually look back on itwith a romantic sensibility.
Again, my hilarious husband willsay, Wow, you have this
twentytwenty vision. He'll evensay in times of crisis, Don't
worry.
In a year, you'll look back atthis as the best time.
Kate Northrup (12:41):
So it was the best time. So there was a time
in there, and I can't exactlyremember timelines, but I do
remember one conversation we hadafter a very long time of not
talking. I do happen to know itwas the 2019 because I was
somewhere about to do a speakinggig, and I was calling you
(13:03):
because I was on West Coasttime. I mean, East Coast time,
but I was on the West Coast. SoI was up early, you're an early
riser.
And we talked, and then therewas some other follow-up
conversation around that timewhen I was on some windy road. I
don't exactly remember, but youand I were having this semi
parallel but differentexperience in our lives where we
(13:23):
were feeling overburdened, underresourced, probably I'll just
speak for myself, I was feelingreally resentful, particularly
around Mike, particularly aroundthe business. I was caught in
this identity as breadwinner andfeeling really annoyed about
that. And we talked, and youwere having a similar
(13:46):
experience. Was that in that
Chela Davison (13:49):
time period? Would say my resentment unfolded
after that time. So it was closeto that time. And and by my
resentment meaning what I foundso fascinating about that
conversation, and what you justnamed, particularly around Mike
and breadwinning, is I rememberyou saying in that conversation,
it's interesting. We're havingit's like externally or
(14:10):
objectively, we are in verysimilar circumstances.
Owning our companies,breadwinning, young children.
But our stories about them werereally different. And at that
time, I had which it wasn'tuntil I started to say it out
loud in therapy that I was like,this is fucking absurd. But at
(14:31):
the time, so we had an agreementand a dream that Andrew was
going to take an extendedparental leave, and he's like
always wanted to be a dad, he isa total nurturer, and I wanted
to be able to go back to work,and I had all these identities
around not having to give up mycareer and all those things. And
(14:52):
at first it was like a dreamcome true, and then it started
to be really really hard, and Iwas so depleted, and things
weren't just I didn't have thesame as it goes.
And in that conversation, what Iremember going, oh, is I had
this belief, because he was alsodoing his master's at Harvard at
(15:16):
the time, and if I couldn't payfor all of our living expenses,
having just totally stretched topurchase our first home, which
was not much of a starter home,pay for him to go to school, pay
for any childcare in additionlike, if I couldn't if I
couldn't do all that, I wasfailing.
Kate Northrup (15:34):
Oh, yeah.
Chela Davison (15:34):
And and now I go, that's just like completely
unreasonable. But at the time,it was like, not only did I have
this resilience identity, I hadlike a I can make shit happen
identity. And I can be ofservice, and I can be joyful in
it, and if I'm not having a goodtime while doing all of that,
I'm also failing. And so all ofthose were like making things
(15:57):
very hard. Mhmm.
Yeah.
Kate Northrup (16:01):
I mean, hilariously, given the name of
your show, it's too much. It'stoo much. It's a little bit
much. It's too much.
Chela Davison (16:10):
Yeah. Can I ask you Of course? Okay.
Kate Northrup (16:13):
Know we're but like, I'd rather Great. Have a
Chela Davison (16:16):
for you in that time, because I remember that
conversation, and you saying in,oh, interesting. We have these
different stories, and I'm inresentment in, like, what it
would mean if you loved me as mypartner, and how that would
shift things. Yeah. But we'vealso talked about the illusion
of breadwinner
Kate Northrup (16:33):
versus I know that Mike is listening right now
because he is such a sweetie,and he listens to every single
podcast episode, and so I justwant you to know, Mike, this is
healing in action right now.Because I was talking with
Shayla before we startedrecording about this resentment
around the identity asbreadwinner, but how Mike and I
(16:55):
have had many follow-upconversations where he's like,
okay cool, and also here aresome literal things that were
going on financially that due toyour identity as essentially
downtrodden breadwinner, youwere not able to see. And that's
the thing about identity.
Chela Davison (17:16):
That's the thing. It's what's in your view, what's
out of your view. And Andrew andI, because he may or may not
listen to this,
Kate Northrup (17:23):
who knows? Who knows? But once I tell him I
talk about his ass, he probablywill.
Chela Davison (17:28):
The number of conversations we have had about,
well, guess downtrodden, like,oh, I guess I'll pay for
Kate Northrup (17:37):
that. Right.
Chela Davison (17:38):
It's like very martyr y. It's very martyr y,
but here's the thing that reallykind of blew something open for
me that was fascinating aroundenculturation, or how we we take
the dominant narratives ofculture, because what it felt
like Andrew and I wereconsciously doing and continue
to consciously do is really go,okay, what are we both called
(18:00):
to? What is our life's work?What is our family work? How do
we want to show up as partners?
And how do we want to do thatthat is within the norms or
outside of the norms? And sothere are a lot of ways that
we've challenged traditionalgender norms, and I identify as
a feminist, and part of thatincludes how he gets to show up
(18:21):
as a care worker and as adomestic partner, and he is
amazing as a domestic partner.But what I started to notice
during that time, at first,until I started to feel really
burnt out, I felt so supportedin being able to pursue my call
in how he was showing up in thehome. And then over time, I
(18:45):
started to value that I earnedmoney more than what he was
contributing to the mental andemotional labor. And there I'm
it doing more.
And it was super diminishing tohis contribution, which was
incredible, which I asked for,which I wanted. And so us in our
(19:08):
healing, in our endless therapy,
Kate Northrup (19:10):
and many other things that we have done to be
in
Chela Davison (19:12):
a very delightful spot in this moment, is is
actually unpacking that, and howthose unconscious beliefs that I
had, that he had, how theyimpacted how we valued me, how
we valued him, and actually Iwas in a place of ending up
resenting and diminishing hiscontribution in ways that I
(19:35):
would not have fucking toleratedin the opposite direction.
Kate Northrup (19:37):
Yeah. Isn't that wild? Yeah. You know, hello. The
patriarchy is inside of us.
Yeah. All of us. All of us. Andthe moment we start pointing
fingers is really like that'sjust a PSA. That's not for
Chela.
Chela Davison (19:55):
I think pointing fingers, or just any resentment
at all, you know, I think thatthat's part of what we started
to really unearth and work withover time, is like, if there is
a resentment living in us, whatis that about? And how do we
actually process it and move outof it? Which I feel like we've
really, I'm really proud of us.
Kate Northrup (20:15):
I'm so proud of We you talked during some dark
times.
Chela Davison (20:20):
Yeah, we did.
Kate Northrup (20:22):
Speaking of what is birthed in the darkness,
because all everything, all thebest stuff comes from there,
comes from the times when wethink we're not gonna make it,
comes from the times when it'sjust so constricted and so
contracted, and it's just like,You have made some pretty
dramatic shifts in the way youwork over the last couple of
years, and in fact, completeidentity. You don't identify as
(20:47):
a coach anymore. Is that true?What's true? Tell me what's
true.
Chela Davison (20:51):
Well gosh, I mean it's all feeling real fluid
right now, but I would saythat's a skill I have. Yes it
is. It is a skill I have, and Istill work with some people. But
that's not the my dominantidentity anymore. No.
It's true. And that has shiftedthrough what happened in the
(21:13):
dark. Actually, so shall I tellyou my story? Please. Okay.
Please do. Because I'm having somuch fun. So when I turned 40,
my husband bought me chickens.
Kate Northrup (21:25):
Did you ask for them?
Chela Davison (21:26):
I've I've wanted chickens for
Kate Northrup (21:27):
so long. Yeah. Because I'm like, if anyone ever
gives me a living animal for abirthday present, I would be
like Well, what was it? It itactually was part of
Chela Davison (21:36):
my undoing, because I wanted chickens really
badly, and so then I got thechickens, but I didn't have the
infrastructure for the chickens,and it was one of those dreams
meet reality, and I was like, mydesire to homestead in this
garden that I'm building andthese chickens that I have, it's
just one more make work projectthat I cannot sustain. And then
I unraveled, and that was rightbefore everything collapsed.
Kate Northrup (21:59):
You're a Gemini,
Chela Davison (22:00):
right?
Kate Northrup (22:00):
Uh-huh. When's your birthday?
Chela Davison (22:01):
05/31/1981. Cool. Moon and Taurus Scorpio rising,
Kate Northrup (22:06):
just in case you Oh yeah. Oh, so nice. Nice. Mike
says Scorpio rising too. Is he?
Chela Davison (22:10):
It's a good one. I I thought I was sad rising for
a long time because mystepmother changed my birth time
because she didn't think I couldbe Scorpio rising. That's So
much to unpack there.
Kate Northrup (22:20):
We don't need to starve. We don't need to say
that. Yay.
Chela Davison (22:23):
Yeah. So my mom my mother was like, I am correct
about your birth time, and hereit is in writing.
Kate Northrup (22:29):
Yes, given that I was the one There giving
Chela Davison (22:32):
does, Anyway, okay.
Kate Northrup (22:35):
Scorpio rising. So
Chela Davison (22:36):
true. Which, yeah, really, like, oh, no
wonder I like talking about thethings I like talking You
Kate Northrup (22:43):
like the depths.
Chela Davison (22:44):
I really like the depths.
Kate Northrup (22:46):
So yeah, you are really also a Gemini. You do it
in a really fun way.
Chela Davison (22:50):
Thank you. Thanks. Thanks. I really feel
like this is part of coming intobeing a middle age tag, which
clearly I'm not, but this is
Kate Northrup (22:58):
Seriously, you're not.
Chela Davison (23:01):
There's something in that though that I'm like
Kate Northrup (23:04):
Like it feels permissive for you on some
level. It must. It
Chela Davison (23:06):
does. It does. It And fun. And like, just I just
kinda wanna like And it's funnythem my way out of shit.
Kate Northrup (23:13):
True. Yeah. I guess. Yeah.
Chela Davison (23:15):
Yes. I mean, ask my husband some days. So anyway,
I part of the unraveling turning40 is I've always wanted to
write books. Now you wrote abook when you were 27. Good for
you.
I'm not jealous at all. But whenI turned 40
Kate Northrup (23:30):
You helped me, thanks. You're welcome.
Chela Davison (23:34):
This was part of my reckoning actually, is that
I've worked with lots ofauthors. Yes you have. I've
worked with lots of people whohave built very incredible,
lucrative businesses. I'vehelped people develop out bodies
of work. You've been majorbehind the scenes.
I've been major behind thescenes. For
Kate Northrup (23:52):
you listening, I just want you to know that Chela
has been behind the scenes ofmany of the people that you
follow and read and listen to.Yeah, thanks. Then I was like,
don't Hello? Where's my Chela?
Chela Davison (24:06):
Yeah. So I was like, I'm gonna go write a book,
and then I didn't. Okay. BecauseI wrote this show instead, kind
of by accident. And there was acourse, a friend of mine who's
been super influential, T.
J. Daw, in my writing career, mycreative practice for years. He
(24:27):
was like, hey, I'm doing my soloshow course. He's made a living
writing incredible solo shows.Cool.
And I was like, who has time forthat? I do, because I just burnt
my life down. And I reallywanted creative recovery. I
actually wanted something thatwas so outside of my business
that I wasn't trying to turninto something, that wasn't
going to be my next thing, andand now it's become my whole
(24:51):
life. But it was really thecreative process of writing this
show, which is now called ALittle Bit Much, its working
title at one point was Are YouThere, God, It's Me?
Existential Angst. Was like oneof the most incredible
experiences of creatingsomething, because it really
(25:12):
came through the dark, andreally came from listening to
what is this and what does itwant to become. So for most
things I've written, programsI've created, things I've
developed, there's like somevision out here, and then I'm
filling in this. For this, everyweek I had to show up with five
new minutes of material, most ofthe time it was by the seat of
(25:34):
my pants, piecing somethingtogether. And then by the end of
twelve weeks, I had about anhour ish of things.
And I started to comb through itand go, what is this about? What
is it saying? And I ended upspending about two years on this
project, and it like, was themost playful, enlivening,
(25:58):
healing, reclamative, is that aword?
Kate Northrup (26:03):
Mhmm. I like it.
Chela Davison (26:04):
Great. Experience. Yeah. It's been
super fun. Wow.
So creative recovery.
Kate Northrup (26:13):
Yeah. There's a concept I talk about that's
inspired by regenerativefarming, which is I think a
mutual love I'm that wecurrently not tending to any
plants, but I think you are.
Chela Davison (26:26):
I am, I am. My garden's a little sad, but I got
some indoor puppies that areokay.
Kate Northrup (26:30):
But you have one. Yeah. They have one. I am
currently not personallyresponsible for any plants. In
fact, just before the episodestarted, I plucked one dead
plant off the set because Icannot even keep an air plant
alive.
But I do love gardening andfarming metaphors. So the
(26:50):
metaphor is, in regenerativeagriculture there's this concept
of cover crops, and cover cropsare things that are planted that
are not to be taken for sale. Sothey are not commercial crops,
they are cover crops, and theyare planted to regenerate the
nutrients in the soil and to reenliven the humus, the layers of
(27:14):
topsoil, so that later onthey're more fertile and richer,
but the cover crops are justthere. And so I'm thinking about
that in terms of your creativerecovery and creating something
that was not meant to be takento market, at least not at
first. And I'm wondering whatcame up for you as you were
(27:36):
doing that as someone who's sogood at building things that are
marketable.
Chela Davison (27:41):
Yeah. It was just like a deep relief. It was a
deep relief, and it also let mebe in emergent ways of playing
that felt vulnerable. So firstof all, as somebody, even though
I'm outgoing and expressive andmy career has been in service of
(28:01):
people and in service of theirlife's work. And so to write a
one woman show felt so indulgentand super selfish.
Really? Yeah. It was like, whywould like, who do you think you
are? But what was interesting iswhen I went into the course, I
was like, oh, I'm I'm with awhole bunch of people who are
writing solo shows, and so andit's kind of bananas to think
(28:23):
back to that even having feltlike a thing a few years ago,
but at the time, it was justlike yeah. It just felt
uncomfortable.
If I couldn't hook what I wasdoing to how it was going to be
of service, it felt notvaluable. We can unpack that in
so many ways. And so it justfelt, like, really close in, and
(28:47):
the different there were so manymonologues or pieces,
explorations that never made itinto the show that ended up
being off theme. Some that Iwould even pull in to share with
other people in the groupbecause there was something I
could feel needed to be healedthrough the telling of the
story. Yeah.
But I knew it wasn't gonna stay.So the whole process was like
(29:07):
excavation, healing, selfexpression, play, and then the
medium too, like the show itselfis, it's a mix of storytelling,
but it's funny. It's very funny.Thanks. But it also makes me
cry.
That is now when you say, Do younot identify as being a coach
anymore? This is what, if that'sall I did, was have people cry
(29:30):
and laugh in very short periodsof time, like same sentence?
That's the dream. There'ssomething that that has done,
and now that it is out in theworld, it's been this really
interesting experience of like,this is for me, I'm letting it
heal something in me. I'm I'mreclaiming parts of my
expression that in professionalcontext, and I still show up in
(29:51):
professional context, and I'mlike, not gonna drop c bombs
there because I'm a grown up.
But on my stage and in my show,I can, and I do. And so that's
like, is really enlivening, andit moves a lot of creative
energy to take risks and play.
Kate Northrup (30:07):
It's very Scorpio rising.
Chela Davison (30:08):
It's very Scorpio rising.
Kate Northrup (30:10):
Have you always been, well I guess you did say
that as a child you wouldsometimes say things that were
just bold. My question actuallyis were you always kind of
mouthy?
Chela Davison (30:23):
Yeah I was. I I was. Was.
Kate Northrup (30:25):
Yeah. Like, you you were just born that way, or
did you grow up in anenvironment where it was
encouraged or modeled?
Chela Davison (30:31):
Both of those things. K. Both of those So in
my show, actually, I tell thisstory, which my aunt and uncle
came to the show, and after theysaid, I remember when that
happened. I remember when yourfather called us and told us
what he did, and we were like,you said what? So I made a
comment in class when my teacherwouldn't let me go to the
bathroom.
Oh yeah. Where I said, fine,I'll just bleed all over this
(30:55):
chair then.
Kate Northrup (30:57):
Which was like so How old were you when you said
that?
Chela Davison (31:00):
15 or 16? Tenth Tenth grade. So good.
Kate Northrup (31:04):
It's so good. I was
Chela Davison (31:05):
so mouthy. Oh no, I was like, I wanted to get
condoms in school and do a playabout it, and the principal was
like, no, and I was like me meme me. And my father, when he
was called in to reprimand me,said, you're just gonna have
Kate Northrup (31:19):
to figure out how to deal with
Chela Davison (31:20):
her because I'm not gonna squelch your self
expression, And things will goeasier for you if you work with
her instead of against her. Andso that was like and my mom my
mom's like, I don't love the sexstuff in your show, but I'm so
proud of it. Like my That's sofunny.
Kate Northrup (31:36):
Yeah. I don't love it, but I'm so proud of
Chela Davison (31:38):
it. She's so proud
Kate Northrup (31:39):
That's of perfect.
Chela Davison (31:41):
Is perfect. So there's a way that I and I got
all sorts of messages that I wastoo much, that I talked too
much, that I was too bossy.Those came from all directions
too, but my parents were reallyreally determined to let me be
who I was, and to find ways tolet that express.
Kate Northrup (32:02):
So it sounds like the messages about being too
much were not mostly coming fromyour parents. No. Maybe a little
bit from time to time, butpretty much not?
Chela Davison (32:12):
Pretty much not. Pretty much not. Like some kind
of, you know, like there wasChela, pull your aura in, your
energy is all over this house,that was a staple.
Kate Northrup (32:19):
Oh my goodness. Know, they'd get overwhelmed and
be
Chela Davison (32:24):
like, god, this is a lot. You know, my stepmom
would be like, this is
Kate Northrup (32:27):
a lot. So
Chela Davison (32:27):
I'm fucking lot of energy, and so when that, you
know, and through myadolescence, all my brothers,
friends, none of them hadsisters, they were all just
like, what is happening? I was awhirlwind of a force. And I
started to see the ways thatthat didn't work or didn't
(32:48):
honour people. Because while I'malso that, through my teen years
I had friends who were like, welove you being around our
parents, and I had other onesthat were like, you cannot be
around my parents. You say shityou're not supposed to say in
front of parents.
Kate Northrup (33:00):
And I'm like,
Chela Davison (33:01):
you're not supposed to say this in front of
parents?
Kate Northrup (33:02):
Because at your house you could.
Chela Davison (33:03):
I could say things. So you're not supposed
to be like, oh I lost myvirginity last night, or we did
a bunch of shrooms on Saturday.You don't say those things.
Kate Northrup (33:10):
At other people's houses.
Chela Davison (33:10):
At other people's houses. So there became a point
where I started to see whatsociety expected, but I also
care. I really care about otherpeople's experiences.
Kate Northrup (33:26):
Yeah, you're a very attuned person. There are
people who are a little bit muchwho just bulldoze every
situation they're in, and theydon't actually care. That's
Chela Davison (33:37):
not me. That's not me. No. And so that was
something that I had to learnthe capacities to calibrate my
energy. Because a lot of theexpression wasn't about trying
to impact or trying to bulldoze.
It would just kind of spill out,you know? And so I'm like oh
okay.
Kate Northrup (33:57):
It's like confetti. Yeah, so
Chela Davison (33:58):
I actually learned energetic practices to
expand my being, to contain myenergy, to be able to receive
people, to make sure I'm notpressing my energy into the
space. And having worked fordecades in lots of relational
spaces, I'm really good at that.So it's like a nice range. But
to be
Kate Northrup (34:18):
able to do that, I don't think most people are
able to both ebb and flow incommunity, in professional
spaces, in all sorts of spaces,while also keeping their
muchness. And you have. Seem to.And that's really something. Oh
thanks.
(34:38):
You know, because most peoplejust like it's either they're
too much or they squash it.
Chela Davison (34:41):
Yeah. Yeah, I don't think I, I mean there's
definitely times, I wouldn't sayit was squashing, but in periods
where I wanted to really honormy responsibilities and the
people who depend on me, therewas a containing in a way that
actually squashed creativealiveness. So not squashed
(35:02):
expression so much, but likeCreative aliveness. Creative
aliveness and dampened energy,and really felt like a grind and
a slog for a long time. Yeah.
But not so much suppressed. Butdefinitely working to, I think,
big edge for me and one forpeople who are a lot of
(35:23):
muchness. Because one of theinteresting things that's
happened is since doing thisshow, people are like, oh, I'm
too much too. And it's like,yeah, let's do that. And also,
what is our impact on people?
And people who don't have that,because there are a lot of
people who are like, I've alwaysfelt like I'm not enough, and I
want to take up more space. Buthow do I take up space when
(35:43):
other people are taking all thespace? And so that's something
that feels really important tome, is to sense and feel who are
the people who actually want tocome out more, who don't feel
safe to do that, and how do we,as big energy people, make it
safe and make room and containourselves in ways that allow
(36:06):
people to feel safe and seen andself expressed? Because self
expression isn't just It's notlike just explosions.
Kate Northrup (36:17):
You are the first person who taught me about the
Enneagram, and we are bothsevens. Yes. And while everybody
who is told they're too much isnot a seven by any means, I am
curious, my own experience ofbeing a maturing seven, as I go
(36:39):
through my life, is that there'ssomething around the energetics
of being able to sit with my ownenthusiasm, my own desire to
tell, for example, Mike 35 ideasin fifteen seconds, and hold it
(37:00):
but not tamp it down, but alsonot vomit all over him with my
ideas. And I'm curious if youcan speak to that in yourself.
You spoke to it a little bit,but for example, in the time
that you were in that twelveweeks with your friend in this
(37:20):
one person show class, whateverit was called, right?
Was there a desire to shootthese tendrils of creativity out
and turn this into something? Orreally, had you developed your
capacity to hold your toes tothe discomfort of staying and
not doing a million things bythat time that you could just
(37:40):
actually savor the sweetness ofletting it be creative recovery?
Chela Davison (37:46):
Yeah, think I was really able to do that. I was
really able to do that for a fewreasons. One, could call it a
healthy integration to five,which is Okay. An Enneagram What
Kate Northrup (37:59):
does that mean?
Chela Davison (38:01):
Five being the investigator, so one of the
healthy integrations of seven israther than chasing experiences,
moving into the next thing, andthe next thing, and the next
thing, and having our energy gooutward, is an ability to
actually focus and go in, and gointo depth. Yeah. To prune the
number of things, all of that.I'd say during that time though,
(38:22):
honestly, I was just too tiredto turn it into something. So I
actually didn't have thatimpulse at the time also, that
was during the two and a halfyears that I was not on social
media.
Kate Northrup (38:32):
Oh yeah!
Chela Davison (38:33):
Which was like very good for When my depth did
you go off? I went off in 2021.It was my fortieth birthday gift
to myself. And I was off for twoand a half years. So that whole,
there was just not a lot ofnoise.
There wasn't a lot of static.And there was something about
(38:55):
the process itself that was sonourishing, I didn't feel like
doing something with it. And itkind of remarkable to feel the
way I wanted to keep coming backto it. And then I did a couple
of readings, and I just keptwanting to come back to it. And
it's the probably the longestI've worked on something.
Like, else I've done from startto to start to birthing,
(39:18):
incubation to being tasted bythe world, has been very short
time horizons. And this one tooka couple of years before I got
it on stage. And the value ofthat for how proud I am of it as
a piece of work is due to depthwork and staying What with
Kate Northrup (39:38):
do you recommend when folks are sitting in the
desire to start something newwhen they haven't actually
followed through on the thingthey already began?
Chela Davison (39:48):
Well, that really depends on the person. Totally.
That's a tricky one, because Ithink there's tremendous value
in following where the energyis. Yeah, I think there's
tremendous value in that. And infact, I'd started, like I said,
I'd started working on a bookproposal.
Was looking to hire somebody todo that, and then I ended up
being like, I'm sorry. There'sjust no energy here. I'm
(40:10):
Canadian. I'm sorry.
Kate Northrup (40:14):
I'm Canadian. That
Chela Davison (40:18):
is how we say hello and goodbye. Yeah. I'm so
sorry. I'm not gonna do thatthing. Yes.
Right.
Kate Northrup (40:23):
I'm I'm not yeah. Because you followed the energy.
Chela Davison (40:25):
Because I followed the energy, and so but
I also tried so and I had somedeep questions. Is this just a
form of resistance to the book?Which I don't which now that
I've written the show, I'm inthe midst of working very
dedicatedly on turning the showinto a book proposal.
Kate Northrup (40:39):
Oh cool!
Chela Davison (40:40):
Which is really fun, and asking like oh what
does it want to be now? Becauseit's got a whole other entity
coming in. It's cool. But Ithink for folks, you know, if I
just put on my little coach hatfor a moment, what I've been
doing with people for decades ishelping to develop capacities to
(41:00):
be able to close that gapbetween our current patterning
and the kind of patterning wewould have if we could realise
the things that we most want torealise. And so for someone who
primarily, as a habitualpattern, follows the energy of
new, or if we were to talk aboutregenerative farming language,
follows the energy of spring,that there's just more juice
(41:22):
there.
And then before that thing takesroot or gets finished, there's a
tendency to bounce towards thenext thing. That actually
creates a lot of creativesuffering. Because we don't
trust ourselves to carrysomething all the way through,
and we don't ever get to harvestthe fruits of our labor. And so
(41:42):
if that's a patterning, what Iwould say is stay with the thing
even when the energy isn'tthere, and learn how to stay,
learn how to take your seat. Andonce you do that, I find, and
I've seen in many people, isonce you get past the hump
because typically theinspiration has we could even
(42:04):
call it creative energy, Eros,the way it starts is really
exciting.
It's really magnetic. It givesus a lot of fuel. But then as it
starts to get hard, as we startto wrestle, the things, will
this be any good? Is it going tocome together? Like actually, we
want to play with metaphors,actually birthing the contracted
(42:24):
period of bringing a human intolife is painful.
There are questions of can I dothis, and will I get through
this? And those come up in thecreative process. Is this a
piece of shit? Will anybody likeit? It seems so brilliant in my
dark cave, but as I start tobring it out, you know?
So all of those things come up,and if we can't stay with and
(42:47):
both know that those questionsare normal, stay with the
challenges of those, then thingsaren't going to see the light of
day. And so with this show, Iwent through all of those
things, and then I did readings,I got feedback, I worked with
TJ, who helped word by word, andthen I performed it. And it's
still in its infancy. I've onlyperformed it 35 times. It's
(43:09):
starting to get traction.
Kate Northrup (43:10):
Sounds like so many times. I know. Well I
remember when I think it's 35.What? I know.
Chela Davison (43:16):
Well, when TJ first said by your thirtieth or
thirty fifth, that's when you'rereally gonna start to know the
show. And I was like, oh, I'mgonna perform this show. So
there was a point where I didn'tYou didn't because when you were
writing
Kate Northrup (43:26):
it, you weren't writing it to perform it. You
were just writing it to write
Chela Davison (43:29):
it. I was writing it to write it. Then I was like,
I guess, right. You perform ashow after you write it, you
know. And after the first time Iperformed it, I was like, oh, I
have something.
And so there were many momentswhere while writing I went, oh I
think I have something here. Andthen, oh I don't think I have
something here. And then, oh Ithink I have something here. And
(43:49):
then what is this indulgentpiece of garbage? And then, oh I
think I have something here.
And then is this just like aflaming pile of dung heat? Oh I
Kate Northrup (43:55):
think I
Chela Davison (43:55):
just And so being able to stay with those rides
and waves, and get help, and getfeedback, and then trust myself.
It's been really fun. And nowthat it's in the world, I've
gotten to part of what I've beendoing with this, or any creative
project, is there's what I thinkit is, and then letting myself
(44:16):
be surprised by what it wants tobecome. So what it became for
me, and then what I've seen itbe for others, has been
fascinating. Letting people tellme what the show is, and what it
means to them, and how it'simpacted them, and the diversity
of experiences has been somoving.
(44:38):
I mean that's what art is for.Turns out. Turns out.
Kate Northrup (44:42):
Turns It's for the artist. Yeah. And coming
back around to what you saidabout, oh, is this self
indulgent? Oh, it's notexplicitly to be in service. I
want to dig in there a littlebit because in the end you have
taken it to stage 35 times andit continue to go around the
(45:04):
world, but you did it for you toheal parts of yourself that
needed to be healed.
And so one could very easilyargue that that alone is a
service because now there's amore integrated human mothering,
wifeing, being a friend, being acoach, being all the things that
(45:26):
you are in the world. But thenalso people get to receive you
and receive your stories andthey make them laugh and cry.
Your show is so smart and sofunny and so poignant. And also
you say things that I'm like, itnot a dissimilar experience to
(45:51):
reading my friend LauraBelgrave's book Tough Titties,
where I was like, oh, wow, youjust said that. That's the best.
Because I don't say things likethat, but I want to be able to,
and so you doing it is verypermissive and expansive for me.
Whether I will start sayingthose things or not is to be
known, but it's fun to bearound.
Chela Davison (46:13):
Thank you. I appreciate that, Patricia.
Kate Northrup (46:15):
But I'm curious now knowing where it's going
today at this point, what do youthink about that conversation
about it being of service
Chela Davison (46:24):
now? Oh it's definitely of service. And
what's been interesting is, soas you know, part of what I've
been doing in my coaching for avery long time is I play at the
intersection of calling, likehelping people to realise their
calling. And part of why I didthis is I was helping people to
realise their calling, and Iwasn't doing that for myself.
(46:45):
And so I felt like a gianthypocrite and totally out of
integrity, so I'm like, ohbetter pivot and do this thing.
And so what's been sofascinating is to uncouple the
belief that somehow being ofservice is to martyr going back
to that, Is to martyr, is togive of ourselves, is like, oh,
I've got to work so hard, andthen I'm contributing. Like, oh,
(47:06):
that's not a very regenerativeway of thinking about our
contribution. And so what's beenreally cool is having the
embodied experience of the morejoyful, the more playful, the
more self expressed, the moreit's just for me, the more it
seems to contribute and make adifference. And it's also just a
very different scale, becauseI'm used to working in-depth
(47:28):
spaces and one on one and smallgroups, and so to be on a stage
with hundreds of people, butthen have people come and tell
me what has happened since,that's been the part that I
didn't expect, and I didn'tknow. And yes, I say things, and
I'm like embracing the part thatkind of like, yes I just said
(47:52):
that.
Kate Northrup (47:52):
Yeah, totally just said that. How was that for
you?
Chela Davison (47:56):
But it's like, as a craft, I think that's the part
that I'm the most excited about,is that when you can say
something that is shocking, butspeaks to, as some people have
described it, that's the thingyou think inside but you never
say outside, It creates a formof connection and intimacy, and
(48:18):
then you have humour, whichopens people up. And then you
have depth and vulnerability,which connects people deeply in.
So it wasn't like I well clearlyI did not strategically set out
to do that, but now I'm like oh,that's what that's doing. And
now as people write to me, awoman came up in a coffee shop
(48:39):
and was like I saw your show,and I feel like for the first
time I really like myself andfeel like I have permission to
just be how I am. And we're justlike weeping in a coffee shop
together.
My cousin extended her matleave, another woman finally
told her husband she wanted togo back to work, a man came up
to me and said, I want to go getto know my wife better, teenage
(49:02):
boys have come and said theyunderstand their mother better.
It's been a very moving,unexpected experience. And a lot
of people are like, wow, it's sobrave. Which is the worst I'm
like, is it? Should I not havesaid those things?
(49:23):
Why is it brave?
Kate Northrup (49:24):
That's hilarious.
Chela Davison (49:25):
It was really unsettled the first few times
that people told me it wasbrave. And now I get it, I get
what is being said. But it'sreally encouraging for me,
because it makes me want to keepbeing braver. I think one of the
things that can happen whenyou're in public is that you
(49:47):
share something, and if it'svulnerable, and it's real, and
it's authentic, and it hits, andthen there starts being
attention for that. There can bea like, oh now I've got a it's
like how quickly Persona wantsto come so I feel like my work
is to just keep moving that outand looking for new brave edges
(50:09):
for myself.
And because it seems to reallyhelp. And the way the world is,
I feel like as much honest artas we can possibly have right
now.
Kate Northrup (50:22):
Percent. And also that piece that you said that at
least as a creator myself, itmakes me feel much more relaxed,
is listening for what it wantsto become as opposed to setting
it out. That's why for mewriting a book proposal was
torturous because it's thisillusion. That I have any
(50:46):
freaking idea what it is, right?As though when you're pregnant
you're like, Oh I know exactlywhat this kid's gonna be like as
an adult.
Like, No, you don't. That's whatso many of the structures around
creativity require when creationand commerce intersect, Which is
(51:14):
why I just really love that youcreated this to start with for
you. Thank you. Yeah. It'sreally beautiful.
Chela Davison (51:22):
Yeah. It's it's felt really good. And I I'd like
to actually just say somethingabout that for folks who because
I think that this piece of artand commerce intersecting, it's
been such a journey for me, butit's also been a big journey in
the creatives. Like I started acommunity of practice where we
show up and we write together,called the Creative Cauldron
(51:42):
because I wasn't getting my assin my seat and doing shit. So I
was like, oh, better if I ifother people are expecting if I
have to show up for otherpeople, I'll show up for myself.
I'll do it. In talking withother people too, some of the
things that come up aroundcreativity so much, especially
for those of us who are online alot, is what we receive and what
(52:03):
we see and what we're taking in,what we're consuming are
people's finished products. Andwe don't see what goes into
that, and we don't see what'sbehind the scenes of that, and
we can consciously know that,but it doesn't matter, because
when we have that amount comingin, what it feels like in the
animal of our body is like, Ishould just be able to do that.
(52:26):
And then what we're measuring isour inner process, what happens
in the dark, what happens in thedepths, against out there. And
so one of the biggest, thequickest way to dry up the
creative pussy is to think howis this going to be received, is
to be in any kind ofperformative state in thinking
(52:48):
about outcome first, and it'sreally hard not to do that.
And so there's like and with thespeed of things, it can feel
like and I'm in this all thetime. I don't have time. I don't
have space. Time scarcity is areal thing. I'm constantly
trying to push space out to beable to let things take the time
(53:09):
they take.
And that was one of the gifts ofthis show, is I didn't have
deadlines and outcomes, and soit took years. And now it feels
like, oh, that happened realquick. That just was a massive
transition that happened veryfast on the other side of it.
But when I was in it, it justfelt deep and slow because I
(53:30):
wasn't trying to make it intosomething. And that's really,
really hard to do.
Kate Northrup (53:36):
Yeah. It is. But it seems like it's worth it. I
think so.
Chela Davison (53:40):
And I think too, what I'm worried about even as
I'm saying that is that this isyou know when you hear people
tell a story, it's like, ohyeah, this is like I have an
outcome of a show that is wellreceived that is out in the
world. And so then it canactually sound like, Oh, go do
this thing and then you'll getthese results. But the aliveness
(54:04):
and the joy and the healing andthe pleasure that has come
through this process happenedbefore that hit the stage. And
to me, that if I can leavepeople with anything is making
art and being creative is notjust our birthright, it's a
human need. And we have to doit, whether it goes somewhere or
(54:27):
not.
Absolutely,
Kate Northrup (54:29):
and I will just add to that, that creative
expression is actually one ofthe most effective nervous
system healing tools. Crafting,making a balloon animal.
Chela Davison (54:45):
Those little stress coloring books, I've got
Kate Northrup (54:47):
a friend who got 11 of those for Christmas one
year.
Chela Davison (54:49):
I'm like somebody's telling you
something.
Kate Northrup (54:51):
That's hilarious. Anything. Making sourdough,
making mocktails, whatever.Making a tower out of sugar
packets at a diner, it actually,it's really healing. It's just
really important for our abilityto be here.
(55:12):
To give ourselves permission tocreate whether it is ever seen,
experienced, witnessed byanother human, whether you ever
tell about it or not. It'sworthwhile in and of itself
because it feels good, but italso is very healing for the
nervous system.
Chela Davison (55:27):
Beautiful, I love that.
Kate Northrup (55:29):
I love you, Kayla.
Chela Davison (55:30):
I love you, Kay.
Kate Northrup (55:30):
Okay, so where can people look to come see your
show to learn more about yourcreative containers?
Chela Davison (55:39):
Yeah, yeah. Probably my website's a good
spot. Great. Chaeladavison.com,and then I have a sub stack,
which you can find through mywebsite, and it's called
Wizdotainment.
Kate Northrup (55:50):
Oh yeah! Yeah. That word is so That was the
wisdom enthusiasm. I know. Ijust, when you said
Wizdotainment to me for thefirst time, I think it was in a
voice memo, and I just was like,Jaila has created a complete
genre fresh.
Fresh genre. Fresh genre. Freshgenre. Wizdotainment.
(56:11):
Wizdotainment.
So good, and the show, I mean, Idon't know that I said this, but
I loved it so much. Thank you.
Chela Davison (56:18):
Thank you.
Kate Northrup (56:19):
It's brilliant. Thanks. Yeah. Just like you.
Thank you.
Thanks for being here.
Chela Davison (56:23):
Thanks for having me.
Kate Northrup (56:33):
Subscribe, leave a rating, leave a review. That's
one of the best ways that youcan ensure to spread the
abundance of Plenty with others.You can even text it to a friend
and tell them to listen in. Andif you want even more support to
expand your abundance, head overto
katenorthrop.com/breakthroughswhere you can grab my free money
(56:57):
breakthrough guide that detailsthe biggest money breakthroughs
from some of the top earningwomen I know, plus a mini lesson
accompanying it with my ownbiggest money breakthroughs and
a nervous system healing toolfor you to expand your
abundance. Again, that's over atkatenorthwick.com/breakthroughs.
(57:20):
See you next time.
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