40. Embracing Natural Aging and Redefining Beauty Standards with Amanda Hanson

Episode Transcript
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Amanda Hanson (00:00):
I have clients come to me and they're like, I

(00:01):
know you're anti Botox and I geta lot of it, but I think if and
when you were ever curious tolook at what lives underneath
that. It's not the Botox. TheBotox is a symptom of something
deeper that you are runningfrom. Right? And so it's about
looking at that.
It's never about shame. But Iwill tell you, as women, if we
feel attacked and othered andshamed around every corner, we

(00:23):
can't have any realconversations, and that I am not
a stand for. It is time for usas women to have these hard
elevated conversations and notgive 10,000,000 trigger warnings
or think, oh, now everyone'sgonna feel other they're gonna
feel shame, they're gonna feelbad.

Kate Northrup (00:38):
No. Hello. Welcome to another episode of
Plenty. I have an amazing guesttoday, and her name is Amanda
Hanson. She's the midlife museon the Internet, and she has
taken the world by storm withher somewhat controversial, but
very powerful perspective onwomen and aging and beauty,
specifically what she has to sayabout cosmetic enhancements.

(01:02):
And I can't wait for you to digin. This episode is a little bit
gritty. It might challenge someof your own practices and
beliefs, but it is absolutelybeautiful and a very important
conversation. Enjoy. Welcome toPlenti.
I'm your host, Kate Northrup.And together, we are going on a

(01:23):
journey to help you have anincredible relationship with
money, time, and energy, and tohave abundance on every possible
level. Every week, we're gonnadive in with experts and
insights to help you unlock alife of hunting. Let's go fill

(01:44):
our cups.

Voice Over (01:45):
Please note that the opinions and perspectives of the
guests on the Plenty podcast arenot necessarily reflective of
the opinions and perspectives ofKate Northrop or anyone who
works within the Kate Northropbrand.

Amanda, thank you so much for being here. Thank
you

so much for having me.

Thank you for coming a second time. Our
listeners don't know this, butyou were so generous to come
back. Something happened withthe footage, and we were meant
to have this conversation again,but different. Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So you have a revolutionarystance around women and aging
and beauty. How would you wantto say today what that

(02:27):
revolutionary stance is just tokick us right off?

I think for me, it's this belief that as I'm
watching the world move along,I'm a 51 year old woman who is
immersed in that world. And whatI see playing out before me
globally is really alarming andconcerning. And the reason I
believe that to be is because weare losing the faces of aging

(02:50):
women. And I think about my 21year old daughter, and I think
about all of the young women whoare watching this happen. And
I'm wondering where we got themessage that aging for women,
not for men, but for women inparticular, is somehow a
failure, is somehow soembarrassing we couldn't
possibly show it to the world.

(03:13):
So my stance is that we are inan epidemic of our times for
women, particularly now that wesee 10 year old girls doing get
ready with me on TikTok. And allof this sensation around
Sephora, Some of their biggestconsumers right now are the 10
to 12 year old range. I rememberbeing 10.

I do too.

I don't even think that I took time to look
at myself in the mirror. I wasclimbing trees. My fingernails
were in the dirt. We werebuilding forts in the woods
behind our house. So I'm veryconcerned for what is happening
for young girls.
This stance I have taken 11years ago when I was approaching
40 and watched all of the womenaround me starting to panic. And

(03:53):
I didn't understand what washappening. I worked one of my
first jobs in college, I workedon the Alzheimer's unit of a
nursing home where I took careof Alzheimer's patients. And,
also, with my grandmothers,being surrounded by people who
were aging, really aging withdeep crevices on their face was

(04:13):
such a joy for me, something Iso deeply enjoyed. I found so
much wisdom in every singlestory they told and in the
moments that I got to be withthem.
And I remember thinking when Iwas very, very young, even 19
years old, 20 years old, that Icouldn't wait to see that
journey play out for myself. Soit's something that's been there

(04:36):
for a very long time for me, andI just decided to go public with
it.

Speaker 5 (04:39):
I love that.

Yeah. What about your mom? Was she someone, and
is she someone? Like, what's herrelationship been like for with
aging, and what was modeled

for you? Well, I think this I I wanna back up
even one step further before Ito my mom is I was standing at
her mother's funeral, mygrandmother's, when she was 87,
several years ago. And I was inthe receiving line at the
funeral, and everybody who camethrough said over and over and
over again, your grandmother wasso beautiful, and that was it.

(05:19):
And then the next person and thenext person, And I hungered for
more. I knew my grandmother aswell, and I knew that her
priority was her beauty, and itbroke my heart.
I thought, on the day that I dieat my funeral, I want people
telling revolutionary storiesabout what I did and the impact
I made because the way I look isthe least interesting thing
about me. And so I know that mymother grew up with that

(05:43):
influence as well and has, forher entire life, been an energy
of berating herself in one formor fashion or another. She's in
awe of how I show up in theworld, particularly with my gray
hair. But she she is learning, Ithink, to love herself on this

(06:04):
journey. She's 75 now.
Wow. So

So the other day, I heard the most beautiful
story, which I think is gonna II will likely cry when I tell it
because the last couple of timesI've tried to tell, like, I cry.
So there's a friend of mine whohas a 12 year old daughter.

Speaker 5 (06:22):
Mhmm.

And through the choices that they've made around
parenting and the school, sheyou know, they're they've
really, like, worked to sort ofpreserve her sense of self. You
know? Because we all my littlegirls are 6 and 8a half, and
they both think they'refabulous. And I'm just really

(06:45):
like, can we keep that for aslong as possible? So I'm really,
as a mom, leaning in hard onthis.
Yes. So this little girl, the 12year old, you know how, at least
when I was 12, I was prettyawkward Yeah. Just in, like, the
cultural standard. Like, it'sjust not gonna fuck

up funny. Like, I wore my headgear to school,

Speaker 5 (07:08):
and that's how awkward I'm gonna say.

Yeah. It's just kind of a funny time, like, the
in between body and the outfits.Are we a child? Are we what's
happening? So, you know, it'sawkward stage.
Right. And at the age of 12, Iwas deeply aware of that
awkwardness. This little girlwas going to a wedding, and she
looked at herself in the mirror,and she just said, I just look

(07:34):
so beautiful. Like, I just feelso good. And I heard that story
and I just burst into tearsbecause I was like, how could we
now I know it is a story aboutvisual beauty, but I think that,
and I'm curious about this foryou raising girls as well
because I think our culture hasway too much of a focus of
telling little girls they'repretty or that they look good

(07:56):
Yes.
Just around anything. And, like,we can also really celebrate,
like, hey. That was so smart.You're so creative. Wow.
It looks like you're having fun.You know? Wow. What all the
things that we could talk aboutthat aren't just physical
beauty. And, also, I find as awoman, like, I love celebrating

(08:17):
my beauty, you know, and and soI I wanna talk about I'm gonna
we're gonna come back to, like,how valuable is visual beauty
and where is its place?
But this little girl, I was sostruck by, like, the miracle of
a 12 year old little girl inthat awkward phase, looking at
herself in the mirror and havingthat sense of like, god, I'm

(08:42):
gorgeous.

Speaker 5 (08:43):
You know? And I

was like, I want that for my kids. Yes. So my
question is for you, now youmade that stance and you had
this awareness on the verge of40. I know you do have, you
know, it's 11 years later now.So you you probably came to it,
like, a little after your girlswere already possibly moving
into adolescence or maybe not.

(09:04):
I don't know how old they are,and I don't really know what the
timeline is. So how did you passthis along to your kids other
than modeling, especially forthe for the for your do you have
one daughter?

I have one daughter.

For your 1 girl?

Speaker 5 (09:17):
Yes.

Yeah. She's 21 now.

Speaker 5 (09:19):
Okay. Amazing.

I taught her obviously, modeling is a huge
part of it. Right? The way shehears me speak about the things
I think about myself and the wayI show up for myself. But more
importantly, I think, was themessage I would say to her over
and over and over again is payattention to how you feel living

(09:39):
your life. Don't worry so muchabout how you look living your
life.
And over and over and overagain, and also the positive
attention, I guess, I would say,was really centered around her
love for acting, her her verydeep, natural activist heart,
her concern about global issues,the way she leads in her

(10:02):
classrooms and asks, you know,professors, can I lead a
conversation about what'shappening in the world that
feels more pertinent than thisother thing? Can we weave this
piece in? So celebrating thosethings about her and making that
the focus, sure, she's abeautiful girl, but that was a
blessing by genetics that justcame together. She didn't do
anything to earn that. Yeah.

(10:23):
So I remember also taking awalk. I was doing a 60 mile walk
for the Susan G Komen Foundationwhen I was in my thirties and
being really taken by a quote.And I'm gonna forget who said it
now, but it said something alongthe lines of, if you are
beautiful at 16, that is not ofyour own doing. But if you're
beautiful at 60, that was yoursoul's work. And I remember the

(10:46):
impact at 30 some years old thatmade on me.
And I thought, that's how Iwanna live.

Yeah.

I want the beauty to be radiating from my soul,
having nothing to do with theexternal, you know, look.

And when going back to the story about your
grandmother's funeral, so itseems like from the story,
correct me if I'm wrong, thatwhat people were commenting on
was more of a external Only.Purely visual.

Yes. That was what she was known for.

Because that was what she was focused on.

Speaker 5 (11:17):
Yes.

And then there's the inner beauty, which does
radiate right out of us at anyage regardless of what we are
wearing, what makeup, you know,the hair does is irrelevant.

Speaker 5 (11:28):
Yes.

And and it is true. Like, the the feeling of
internal beauty that what we areradiating in the world is a
match for the beauty that isinside of us and that people can
feel it in our presence, and ourlife is an extension of that.
Absolutely. And then as yourdaughter was I'm just gonna ask
you all the parenting questions.Please.

I don't have So,

like okay. So I come from Maine.

Speaker 5 (11:52):
Mhmm.

It is a very different culture than Miami.
Yes.

But I'm from Ohio.

So okay. Yeah. Originally. And you raised your
kids somewhat in Connecticut.Right?

I've moved all over California, Boston,
Connecticut.

Yes. Okay. Cool. So, Southern Florida is a very
visual beauty focused culture

Speaker 5 (12:13):
Mhmm.

In general. Yes. Very different from where I come
from in Maine. Like, women inMaine don't like, maybe they're
wearing, like, a tiny bit ofmascara. Yes.
Like, there's not really theconversation around Botox so
much or, like, the like, it'snot like a a thing that folks
are talking now maybe more sinceI left. I don't know. I left 3

(12:34):
years ago. And so it's just beenwild

Speaker 5 (12:37):
to come

down here. And I I witnessed it in my girls, just
in this very simple ways. Rightnow, they both wanna get their
ears pierced, which I was told Ihad to wait until I was 13. I
don't remember what therationale was for that. Same.
And okay. Same. Yeah. And soit's so funny because I was like
originally, I was like, no. Youcan't get your ears pierced.

(12:59):
And then when they ask me why,

Speaker 5 (13:02):
I'm like, I don't have a good reason to tell you.

But then same with, like, oh, they're watch
you know, little girls aresometimes already in their
school. You know, their schoolgoes up to 4th, 5th grade.
They're starting to wear alittle makeup here and there,
and I'm like, oh, like, and I'mreally reexamining all my stuff
around what's okay, what's notokay. And, and so, you know, I'm

(13:30):
doing that inner work, but I'mcurious when your daughter
wanted to start wearing makeupor doing and then the I I
totally understand also that,you know, we I wanna talk about
the difference between medicalprocedures and, like, mascara.

Speaker 5 (13:47):
Yes. I mean, so, like, we're

we're not

Yes. You know, because it's a different thing.
But I we're gonna ask I'm gonnajust ask the makeup question.
Like, how how what did you howdid you handle that, and when
were you feeling supportive ofher starting to wear makeup and,
like, whatever? She's realspecifically.
Yes.

I mean, I don't remember exactly how old she
was. Maybe 7th, 8th grade whenshe wanted to have mascara and
things. And, listen, I'm notanti makeup. I'm not anti
beauty. What I am anti is thisidea that you become obsessed.
It becomes a fixation. This goalpost constantly moving of never
being able to reach it, neverbeing able to be enough, that's

(14:27):
what I am most concerned about.It's it's tipped over into a
very obsessive way of being andfunctioning now, and that is
what is alarming. Anything thatbecomes that kind of fixation to
the point where it's neverenough that you now have to
alter yourself and the looks ofbeauty are becoming so narrow
now, that's what I findconcerning. I don't find makeup

(14:50):
concerning.
I don't find beautiful clothesconcerning. I find, for me, it's
primarily this aging, thedenial. There's something I
think quite different, thedenial of human evolution and
aging that you feel is somehowso embarrassing or so ugly or so

(15:10):
unworthy that you have to eraseit, you have to freeze it, That
is what I am concerned about.And I know that this is a big
concern for girls in theirtwenties thirties, and they are
hungry for leaders because I getstopped in the streets no matter
where in the world I am. This isa global issue.
So everywhere I go, withoutfail, young women approach me

(15:31):
and thank me for my work becausethey tell me, we don't have role
models. Thank you so much forleading us. So it is the reason
why I continue on at the levelwith which I do because I'm
doing it for my daughter and allthe girls who need a role model.

I love that so much. What is the difference for
somebody? I think you justarticulated it so well, but
you're someone who, you know,has taken a very clear stance
that you find, any kind of,like, medical, like, injections,
surgeries, that sort of thing,like, concerning and disturbing

(16:08):
because of the alteration of,like, actually who we are. Where
do you see the difference? Ithink it's kind of obvious, but
just in case for someone who'sstruggling with the difference
between, like, enhancement ofour beauty, wearing earrings,
putting on some lie eyelinerRight.
You know, wearing mascara tomake our eyes look like more
awake and more open. Where doyou where where does one end and

(16:29):
the next begin for you, andwhat's the difference? At the
end

of the day, if women decide they want to do
enhancements, they want to dowork on themselves, that is not
the question. You know, I haveclients come to me, and they're
like, I know you're anti Botox,and I get a lot of it. But I'm
like, no. I'm not anti Botox.

Speaker 5 (16:45):
I'm

That they're having Botox shame instead of
wrinkle shame.

No. I'm I think what the fact that you're even
bringing it up to me isinteresting, I say to them, but
I think if and when you wereever curious to look at what
lives underneath that. It's notthe Botox. The Botox is a
symptom of something deeper thatyou are running from. Right?
And so it's about looking atthat. It's never about shame.
But I will tell you, as women,if we feel attacked and othered

(17:11):
and shamed around every corner,we can't have any real
conversations, and that I am nota stand for. It is time for us
as women to have these hardelevated conversations and not
give 10,000,000 trigger warningsor think, oh, now everyone's
gonna feel other they're gonnafeel shame. They're gonna feel
bad.
No. Yeah. Let's look at whatwe're doing with our own hands

(17:31):
as women. We are the oneswriting the rules every time we
open our pocketbook and continueto say that I won't be worthy if
I show up in the world, youknow, the way I am naturally. So
I think it's more about that,and we can go on and on as how
did that even become a concernfor women.
Right? Like, how did we even gethere where men don't seem to be

(17:53):
as concerned about aging? Iwatched my husband reach you
know, he's, 6 years older thanme, and I watched him as he was
approaching his forties and hisfifties. And if as he became
gray, as he became, you know,more wrinkled, It it was not
even a thought. It was justanother day.
It was just another decade. Andin my eyes, he became even more

(18:18):
sexy, even more refined, evenmore distinguished. But I did
have that thought. Will he thinkthat about me? Because he
travels the world globally.
He's insanely successful. Heinteracts and is with and next
to beautiful women all day everyday. Is he gonna come home and
think, oh, I wish my wife lookedsmooth and What

Speaker 5 (18:43):
a great

magic do Smooth. For this ridiculous goal.

Right? Smooth. Or as if maybe she was younger than
she is. Maybe she appearedyounger than she is. But, it
it's just a top value of minethat that will never happen.
And now it's so interesting tooto watch because he was really
curious when I stopped coloringmy hair, what my reason was, why
I you know, all of the questionshe had. And I'm like, well, I'm
super curious why you're notcoloring yours. Yeah. And it was

(19:10):
this moment for him of, like,

oh. And I will just say as, like, a, you know,
person just out there in theworld, I find it to be really
strange when older men colortheir hair. I think it looks so
weird, but I never it is acomplete double standard. I
don't ever look at an olderwoman who colors her hair and
think that's weird. To me, like,visual you know, this is how our

(19:35):
wiring works.
It is just literally that'swhat's going on in my in in my
neurons and my synapses that,like, man coloring his hair,
weird, bizarre. Woman, fine.Totally normal.

Speaker 5 (19:48):
Yes.

And in fact, it's more unusual Mhmm. For natural
Mhmm. You know, for the naturalcolor. So okay. Thank you so
much for highlighting that it'snot so much the resultant
behavior.
It's what's underneath it.Because I find in the work that
I do that the same it can lookthe same on the outside, like

(20:17):
the behavior. 2 people could dothe same dance. Yes. And one of
them could be doing those dancesteps from a place of, like, I
need to prove myself.
I'm unworthy. I'm inherentlyflawed. And the other one can be
doing that dance from the placeof, like, I am whole and
complete, and this dance is anexpression of, like, the
divinity of my soul.

Speaker 5 (20:36):
Mhmm.

And on the external, we can never know. You
can only know on the inside.Right. So is that kind of what
you're saying in terms of womenand aging and this
ridiculousness about erasing theaging face.

I don't know how divine someone actually feels
and how whole the words you usesomeone actually feels when they
are putting, for all intents andpurposes, it is rat poison into
their face. I think that's howdeep the marketing runs. That's
how well we have been diluted tobelieve this is now in form of
feminism. This is now in form ofmy body, my choice, my power. I

(21:16):
think that, women who believethat have taken hook, line, and
sinker to the mass mediamarketing that has happened for
us.
That is $1,000,000,000 industry,multi $1,000,000,000 industry.
So if if you delude yourself, ifyou decide to delude yourself
and tell you this is done underself love and self care, I would
I would personally disagree.Yeah.

I would personally disagree. I applaud
such a strong stance. Like yousaid, we have come to a time
where there are so many triggerwarnings.

Yeah.

There is

so much apology saying anything.

For just landing our opinion. Yeah. Especially
when it's not a positive one.

As a woman. As a woman, if you have a strong
opinion and everyone doesn'tagree with you, then you are
shaming other people. You arenot being open and fair to
everyone. And I just I refuse tonot have an opinion about
things. It doesn't mean thateveryone's gonna agree with me.
I'm so okay with me and mystance. I don't need people.

(22:17):
Judging by how quickly all ofthis has gone for me in my world
of social media in just a coupleof years, I it's pretty obvious
that women are hungry for thismessage. Yeah. They're starving
for a new narrative.
I can't even read all of my DMsbecause of the amount that come
in from women around the worldand the love and the thank you
so much. Please keep this going.So that's the all the proof I

(22:40):
need. My message is for thosewomen.

Okay. Couple things about that. Number 1, I
love that. It's such a deepservice and, you know, something
we talked about during our lastinterview.

They got those files are corrupted.

Speaker 5 (22:56):
Those were corrected. It's so juicy.

So juicy, so we're gonna go there again. I
wanna talk about yourrelationship with money, so
we're gonna come back to thatbecause one of the things I I
know about you is that this thiswork comes from a deep place of
service. Yes. By the way, workthat we do that we do, you know,
because we need to make moneyand can be of service at the
same time. Yeah.

There is.

But I also know too that there wasn't, like, a
pressing financial need. And sothis is really, like, coming
from a place of, like, this ismy mission. I gotta do this. So
amazing and such a deep service,because I also am sure that not
all of the messages you receiveare positive and and glowing.
And so thanks for taking one forthe team.

And then Being a free agent is incredibly
liberating. Yeah. Because I canbe as free, and I can say no. I
have more most offers I say noto. It's very rare I'm a yes
because it has to be deeply,deeply aligned for me and my
time.
So, being a free agent is awonderful thing, and I feel the

(23:58):
privilege of that.

So great. So great. But I think that there's
a core level that we all arefree agents on some deeper
level, and I I I absolutelyunderstand economic need, and I
absolutely understand thatsometimes it feels like we have
to sacrifice our values at thealtar of money. Yeah. And

(24:20):
perhaps I will do a solo episodeabout this at another time, but
I would encourage all of us tolean in and question those
places Oh, yes.
Where we might look at someonelike you and say, well, easy for
her to say whatever and justreally ask, how could I operate
with that level of liberation

Speaker 5 (24:34):
Yes.

With my set of circumstances? Yes. Because,
like, it is available.

Yes.

Yeah. Okay. And then the second thing I wanted
to say, and and I wanna pivot alittle bit and talk about the
extraordinary growth of yourbusiness, is that, like, hot
marketing tip, having acontroversial opinion and being
unapologetic about it is veryeffective, and you are also very
clear. It makes it easy to findyou because you are like, this

(25:02):
is my stance. This is what I am,you know, standing up for.
It's not I know you didn't dobecause it's controversial. It's
because it's true. No.

But, Other people just said it was controversial.

Right. I didn't. You know, it's just who

Speaker 5 (25:14):
you are.

So you started your business talking about this
in a public way how long ago?

4 years ago. Only 4

years ago. You have a very large Instagram
account. You you know, I don'tknow much about the rest of your
business, but that's, like, fromthe outside, you know, visible
that way. So you started 4 yearsago.

Speaker 5 (25:38):
Mhmm.

And what did you start doing? Like, did you know
what you were doing? What didyou how did you start? What
inspired you? Well, prior tothat, I

was in private practice. I have my doctorate.
I'm a clinical psychologist. SoI was in private practice before
that seeing one on one clients.Right?
Whoever could get in their carand drive to my studio

And just and and and and around any kind of
issues. Topic. Women. Okay. So

Women, and, occasionally, they would bring
their partner in. We would docouples therapy. Right? That was
kind of my specialty. And then Istarted doing group events.
I started hosting differentevents for divorced women, new
moms. I was running workshops.And so it was really becoming
apparent to me how much womenneed each other. I always knew
that, but it was really becomingmore apparent in in front of my

(26:27):
very own eyes how rapidly womenwere claiming more for
themselves or healing or movingmountains that before seemed
immovable. So, it was COVIDhappened, and my group sessions
then went online because wecouldn't meet in my studio,
thinking it was just gonna be atemporary thing.

(26:48):
And I eventually did go back tothe studio, but there was
something in the back of my mindthat kept saying, oh my gosh. I
could reach more women if Idecide to do this online. I knew
nothing about social media. Iknew nothing about barely had a
website. I had nothing.
I still have, like, oldfashioned business cards. Yeah.
I'm like, how am I gonna makethis happen? I have no idea.

(27:10):
Next thing I knew, it started toorganically unfold when women
would say, hey.
My sister lives in Kansas. Canshe join our group? Hey. My
sister lives in Dubai. Can shebe a part of this?
It just started word-of-mouthgrowing and growing. And then I
decided to close my studiobecause my husband said, let's
move to South Florida and trythe boating lifestyle. And even

(27:30):
though we're both still workingfull time and very, very busy,
location wise, we prefer beinghere right now. And I thought
this will be perfect. Now I cando everything online.
And so it just really happenedvery naturally. It it unraveled
in the way that it was meant to.I wasn't really I don't wanna
say I wasn't trying. It justhappened. And the very first

(27:54):
video I put on TikTok wentviral.
Wow. Yeah. I will I put it up,and then I woke up the next
morning, and I was What was itabout? Shocked that, I wouldn't
be coloring my hair anymore. ButI I already had stopped coloring
my hair years prior.
I was telling the story.

But, I have stopped years ago.

Yes.

Also, I won't start again.

Yes. Yeah. Yes. And so you were telling the
story. Yes.
And, it went viral, and peoplewent crazy. I was like, oh, wow.
Wow. Didn't even seem like thatbig of a deal.

But okay. But what a great example from a
business perspective of, like,the DNA of who we are, we take
for granted. Oh. We take forgranted many of the most
interesting things about us.Yes.
We take for granted many of themost valuable things about the
work that we do Yes. Which iswhy community like what you
create, communities like what Icreate are so important because

(28:45):
we cannot see ourselvesstraight. It's why the coaching
industry exists. It's why, youknow, therapy is so beautiful.
Like, we need each other toreflect back.

That's my tattoo, Ubuntu. It's an African Zulu
term. It means I I exist becauseyou are here. And, like, we need
each other. We're coexistingbecause you bring talents and
gifts that I need, and I bringthings that you need and vice
versa.
So as communities, as we cometogether, we all, like, can
optimize ourselves. Mhmm.

Speaker 5 (29:13):
We can

be inspired by each other. We can support one
another. And I don't think weinspired by each other. We can
support one another. And I don'tthink we were meant to do this
in isolation.
And this time in particular, inour world, I feel like we are
becoming more and more isolatedand and why these, communities
that you build, that I build,are

interesting. Your trajectory was like, okay.
Started in person then COVID.Then when, you know, went
online, obviously, then you canhave a global impact. So smart,
so brilliant.
You know, you've grown thishuge, huge online community. And
then also, I know and, you know,we'll talk about it more at the
end. I know that also now you'regoing to create your big live
event

live events.

For people to come back in person because we
can only take the connection sofar

Speaker 5 (30:00):
Yeah.

Virtually. Absolutely. You know? So okay. I
love it.

I'm really missing the in person stuff.

Speaker 5 (30:05):
Yeah.

It's really beautiful. It's really
beautiful. Media. Yes. Socialmedia.
Yes. We're talking about what abeautiful thing it is for
creating impact, for creating abusiness, for, you know, getting
ideas out there that we wouldn'tnecessarily have access to if we
were all just in our own insularcommunities.

Right.

And, also, it is one of the number one, purveyors
of toxic brainwashing Yes. Thatis responsible for the very
thing

Speaker 5 (30:38):
Yes.

That you are speaking out against.

Speaker 5 (30:40):
Absolutely.

So I'm curious because you have kids who are
older than mine are.

Speaker 5 (30:46):
Mhmm.

What were some of your guidelines? What was some
of your thinking around yourkids with phones and social
media specifically, but justmedia in general?

Yes, absolutely. I have a very strong stance for
myself personally, and I speakopenly about it to my daughter
and to my clients. And then askthem encourage them to consider
doing the same for themselves,even trying it for a 30 day
experiment and noticing if theyfeel any different. So for my
daughter, when she first startedhaving social media and
Instagram, I would sit down nextto her, and and she would

(31:18):
scroll. And I said, show me youryour feed.
Who are you following? And wewould stop on certain ones. I'm
like, so tell me why do youfollow this person? Oh, for this
reason, this reason, reason. Oh,okay.
Do you feel good when you lookat their things? Yeah. Oh, seems
like maybe there's somehesitation there. We'll come
back to this one. Scroll again.
Oh, why do you follow her? Oh,she's so beautiful, and she's,
like, this really famous model.And do you feel good when you

(31:41):
are on her page? Do you do youfeel inspired? Do you feel
creative?
Do you get new ideas? She'slike, no. Like, then why do you
follow her? Right? So teachpeople how to be more curious.
Teach people to do their ownthinking that takes it to a
deeper level, which I did formyself. If you were to grab my
phone and look at my feed, Ifollow people who wild I have
had chills right now because Iam impeccable in who I follow. I

(32:05):
follow people who uplift theworld, who inspire me, who make
me think beyond my limitationsfor myself. I don't waste my
time of my one and only preciouslife having people who are there
for, just posing. I'm notinterested in posing.
Like, if if if that's the worldwe're living in, I want no part
of it. I have never I'm so proudto admit I have never watched a

(32:29):
single episode of a reality TVshow. I have absolutely no
interest watching other peoplelive their life. I'm so busy
creating my own. And so I'veraised all of my kids, my 3 boys
as well, under thisconsideration and this lens.
And I talk to my clients aboutthis, you know, that you may
think you are just watching somehousewives show, reality show,

(32:50):
for entertainment to shut yourbrain off. I guarantee you, when
you go to bed at night, yourunconscious is processing a lot
of what you saw. Oh, yeah. Justlike we take food in, everything
we take in has an effect on ourlives. So we get to decide, and
I am impeccable with what I eat.
I'm impeccable with what Iwatch, what I take in, in all

(33:10):
forms and fashions. That's why Ican vibrate so high because I'm
only taking in high quality inall regards, in all five senses.

Speaker 5 (33:18):
Mhmm.

So after you and this episode will come over come
out later, I'm interviewing,hypnotist hypnotherapist named
Grace Smith. And in her book,she talks about that, we
actually when we're consumingmedia, we are more in a theta
brain state, and it actually iskind of a form of hypnotism. And

(33:43):
we are our most suggestible atthat time. And so we really
can't just be like, oh, it'sjust entertainment. It's just a
movie.
It's just, oh, whatever. It'sjust a model's Instagram feed or
whatever. It's not. It's like Iwouldn't eat Cheetos all day and
be like, oh, it's just Cheetos.

I wonder I wouldn't just eat Cheetos all
day and be like, I wonder why Idon't feel good. I wonder why my
stomach hurt. I wonder why yeah.Exactly.

Same thing. Like, it's it's I think that I didn't
realize how big of a deal it is,though I notice it come up as a
mama bear because when my girlsstart watching something where
they talk to each other in acertain way or whatever, I'm
like, oh, no. We're immediatelyturning this off. Like, I could
there's just a feeling of, like,oh, no. That is not going into

(34:34):
your psyche

Speaker 5 (34:34):
Yes.

As, like, a way of being or any way of
suggestion of a goal.

During such an impressionable time too. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Before the age of 7,
we're, like, always basically inthat theta brainwave.
Yeah. And then the rest of thetime, we can come into it, and
we are when we're scrolling,when we're reading stories, when
we're watching stories, whenwe're consuming media. Okay. So
you do seem to operate at apretty high level with a, high
level of judiciousness aboutwhat goes onto your calendar,

(35:05):
what comes into your life, whatgoes into your body, your
thoughts, all of those things.Was there a particular moment
where there was, like, a beforeand after?
Did you grow up in a house holdwhere there was a lot of
consciousness around this sortof thing? How did you get this
way?

I think I remember being 8 years old and
being very inquisitive andactually getting in trouble for
my level of inquisitiveness andcuriosity. Like, for me, nothing
was ever what it seemed. Iwanted to know more. I wanted to
know, okay, so that's the storyyou tell everybody, but what
were you actually feeling andthinking, and what happened?
What made you decide to do that?
And it would be that questionof, like, they used to call me

(35:41):
Mandy. Mandy, just quit with allthe questions. So I think I've
always had this form ofcuriosity. And so I'm trying to
think of when it really, reallyturned on. But, I mean, if we
were to lay out my whole life,I've done pretty much everything
not by the book in every regard,even when it comes to medical

(36:03):
choices, when it comes tobirthing my children, when it
comes to natural healing for oneof my children, when it comes to
supporting children who've madedifferent choices about their
expressions in this world.
I am there's nothing for methat's off the table. I'm
willing to get behind, a higherstate of consciousness

(36:23):
everywhere. And I think I alsooperate with love at the core.
And so with the curiosity, withopenness and willingness and
love as my base, I feel like Ihave kind of morphed into or
created the most dreamy way ofoperating that works for me. So

(36:44):
I asked myself, Amanda, doesthis feel loving?
Does this feel so nourishing?Before I interact with somebody,
before I do something formyself? Does this actually is
this really the best way? If youonly have 45 minutes this
morning, is this the mostnourishing way to spend time
with yourself, right, in all ofthe ways? So I think that, for
me, it's really just so muchconsciousness around the way I

(37:08):
am choosing everything becauseit's one go round.
And I really wanna optimize itas much as I possibly can in my
thoughts, in my body, in myheart, in my soul.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And when we spoke last time, I
remember we were talking alittle bit about, your
relationship with money

Yeah.

And how that has shifted. And I'm curious, like,
as a business owner, how doesyour relationship with money
impact your ability to be outhere growing when, the truth is
that what you're talking aboutis incredibly economically

(37:51):
disruptive.

Speaker 5 (37:52):
Mhmm.

Oh, yes. Mhmm.

And and I love that. You know, we vote with our
dollars by what we spend moneyon. And I wrote

that exact line in my book. Oh,

okay. Great. I can't wait to read your book. So
when does it come out, Gina?

January.

Oh, January. Okay, great. So I'm just
curious, like, can you tell meabout what your relationship is
like with money now and whatpossibly was required to update
it as your abundance expanded?

My relationship with money was that there is
never enough of it. You have towork in painfully hard amounts
of your life to earn a littlebit, but you'll still never have
enough. And it is elusive. So, Igrew up, my parents got divorced
when I was young. My dad left,and my mom has zero education.

(38:47):
So, she was working 2 3 jobsjust to keep the lights on. We
were on food stamps for a while,and there was a lot of shame
around not having money. So Ithink that my relationship with
money ever so slowly evolved andchanged when I started to make

(39:08):
my own money and first wasterrified about spending any of
it and really having this beliefof, like, but but what if I
can't get anymore? What if Ican't generate this again? And
then over time, I felt safer andsafer and safer as I trusted
myself to constantly receivemoney.
And when I shifted the beliefthat money is an energy, just

(39:30):
like everything else that weexperience in this lifetime, so
me holding on to it so tightlywas also going to probably
affect the way it came in forme. So every time, even still, I
have this practice of every timeI pay someone like, I paid my
team in the car before I camein. Right? Every time I pay
someone, I pay them with agenerous heart. I get very

(39:51):
emotional about it, actually,because I pay them knowing that
my voice, this work I do in theworld is only possible because
they have the talents that theyhave.
And that, otherwise, it wouldjust be me sitting, you know,
with these thoughts and nothaving this megaphone to my
heart the way that they havehelped me do that. Also,
everyone that helps in any otherway or form or fashion of my
life. I just recently purchasedlast week, we signed the papers,

(40:13):
my mother and her husband, abeautiful condo here in South
Florida. And my mom and I said,did we ever think, like, this
turn of events that we'd havethis moment where she wasn't
sure how we were gonna eat? Andnow here, her daughter was
buying her this beautiful placeto live.
And it really did come withchanging the mindset. I see she

(40:35):
still has that mindset, butthat's okay because Yeah. I have
so much abundance in my heartand in my in my financial
situation that I wanna share.And I also believe that money is
an amplifier. If you have a goodand full and rich heart, money
will only amplify that.
And if you are corrupted andevil and greedy, money will

(40:55):
showcase that as well. So moneyamplifies. So if you're a
beautiful, amazing person, whywouldn't the universe trust
money to come into your handsbecause you'll do beautiful
things with it?

Yeah. Yeah. So there's a thread between what
you speak about withwithworthiness and beauty and
aging Mhmm. And what you'respeaking about here. And I wanna
highlight that, like, the theroot foundation is there's,
like, a deep sense of infinite,inherent worth in you that is

(41:26):
showing up in your business, inyour fortitude that you have to
claim what I know you didn'tlike, you weren't like, oh, this
is gonna be unpopular, but toclaim a a a belief that is not
common, maybe it's not.
I think it's actually quitepopular, but maybe not as
common. It's groundbreaking.Right? It's groundbreaking.

(41:46):
Like, to be able to just putyour antenna up and be, like,
this is what I'm claiming andthen in your money.
And then in the way that you arejudicious about what ends up on
your calendar, what ends up inyour body, what all of those
things, like, they're all comingfrom that root of deep
worthiness, which it sounds likeyou came in with to some degree,

(42:08):
and then worked on over time.And is there anything in
particular that you still leaninto that helps you to amplify
or dip into that source of worthon the on a regular basis?

You know, I have I just had a vision when you
were talking about when I waslittle, and my dad stopped
coming to see us and started anew family 3 miles down the
road. Wow. And I had to tell thestory for a while that, he just
didn't know any better. Someday,he was gonna figure out that I
was really amazing, and then itwas gonna all click for him.
Unfortunately, that day didn'treally come.

(42:44):
We did kinda see each other for5 days before he died. We spent
together, but, and he was not apart of my life prior to that.
And I did. I don't know how ithappened. I feel so wildly
thankful because it's a hugethreat of the work I do now for
women.
It's helping them realize thatthey were born worthy. Every
single human being is bornworthy. And then our decision is

(43:08):
to we get to decide, like, willI protect that under all
circumstances, or will I allowthe world to dictate and tell me
that's not actually true? Thisis how you'll be worthy for me,
for the world,

Speaker 6 (43:19):
for this space, for this conversation. I have just
decided that I will protect myworthiness with everything that
I have. I have just decided

that I will protect my worthiness with
everything that I have. Even asa little girl, I knew that he
made a mistake. I never took iton as there must be something
wrong with me. So I just I don'tknow where that came from. I'm
so grateful that it happened andthat I have that rooted in me,
but it's a deep and I use thatword and that language a lot.

(43:45):
I feel deeply rooted like an oldoak tree. I feel like the roots
are wide and deep, and, I'mpretty unshakable because I
source from here. I don't sourcefrom my husband or my children
or how much money comes into mybank account each week,

or smoothness.

No. At all. Actually, I I might tend the
other way. Yeah. The more gray,the more wrinkles, the more
things.
I'm in awe. Yeah. I'm in awe.Well, it's such evidence

of a life. It is. Well lived. You know? It really
is.

And I wanna see it all.

So what about for someone listening who's like,
I'm not a deeply rooted tree.Like, my it doesn't feel like my
worth comes from like, how dothey tap into that? What's one
thing they might be able to doto start to reconnect with that

(44:38):
worth?

You know, this is a hard one for women. I have 2
things technically. One thing,one of the most primary
practices that I teach in mywork and one of the things that
I have women do from thebeginning of our time together
is begin a mirror practice. AndI know it's very hard for
Whitman, shockingly, to spendany amount of time in the mirror
because the relationship withthe mirror has always been, let
me go to identify all that iswrong, all that needs to be

(45:01):
fixed. And I approach it from,let me come to see the reverence
and and be in reverence.
Let me come to see the majestyand and the divinity here and
stay until you feel that. Andwhat happens for women? The way
they tell me, and I know formyself, I felt cellular change
over after 90 days of committingto mere practice for myself that

(45:22):
I'm gonna come here before Ieven turn my phone on in the
morning. I'm gonna come here,and I'm gonna stand, and I'm
gonna be in awe of what is, notwhat used to be, what may happen
in the future, what is righthere and now. And with that, you
start your day from agroundedness because I'm
witnessing.
It's the same as we go to see asunrise or we stand with our

(45:42):
feet in the sand at the ocean.If I allow it long enough, Kate,
I'm witnessing mother nature.It's a miracle. It's a it's a
miracle that you're here, thatany of us are here. And to to
bypass that, wow.
I don't wanna miss it. So everyday I stand there. And from that
energy, I then go into theworld, and I love harder, and I
create more, and I keep showingup because I remembered for

(46:06):
those 3 minutes every morningthat it's all okay. It's all
beautiful just as it is righthere, right now.

It's so gorgeous. And I've been doing that a
little bit since I first startedlistening to some of your stuff,
and it is beautiful. And when Iremember, it is powerful.

Speaker 5 (46:23):
And sometimes it is a little uncomfortable at the
beginning, but, like, pretty

soon, it just feels really good. And might be
more available, But I do wannasay for those listening, like,
it is a rewiring. Like, we arelooking in our own eyes, being
present with ourselves. It is arepatterning, and it will get

(46:46):
easier and easier. And are you,at that time, just, you know,
making eye contact in themirror?
Are you saying anything?

Does it vary on day to day? It varies on day to
day depending I pay attention towhat I need, right, and depend
and what's going on for me. Soit really is eye contact for
some people. It's about sendinglove to certain parts of their
body that they've really beenuncomfortable with. I do that as
well.
But I think it is really aboutthis idea of, yes, it is this
rewiring, but it's building selfintimacy. We go into the world

(47:20):
seeking intimacy and being seen.I assure you, and I know you
know this, but this is foreveryone listening, is that we
can't actually build trueintimacy with other people until
we've met ourselves, until we'vegone into the deep recesses of
our heart and our soul and ourshadows and our wounds and our

(47:41):
fears until we can't do it in away that actually is going to be
sustainable long term withsomeone else. Right? And then
and then what happens is youbecome dependent on the first
person who pays you a little bitof attention, who who tosses you
a dried bread crumb.
And you're like, oh, it's afeast. You're delusional because
you haven't built any of thatself intimacy within. So you're

(48:02):
taking what you believe to beintimacy, which is usually, not
quite even close.

Not it. Totally not it. Okay. So as we kinda
bring this home, what if youwere to say, like, what's your
what is the world that youenvision when your daughter is
on the verge of 40 in 20 yearsfrom now or slightly less? Yeah.

(48:30):
What do you want that world tobe for her at that juncture?

I want that world to be just in the same way they
can't my kids cannot believe Iuse telephones where I had to
dial each number, or then thenmaybe my mom would pick up from
the other room and listen in, inthat same world that feels
unfathomable to them. I wantwhen my daughter's 40 for it to
be unfathomable that women usedto inject poison into themselves
and call it a beauty treatment.They used to do these

(48:58):
modifications and believe thatthen they would be more worthy.
I want it to be like they'reaghast at the fact that you
believe that the women used todo that? Could you believe they
didn't understand how profoundlystunning and gorgeous and worthy
and beautiful they were?
What were they thinking? Oh mygosh. In the same way we now
think about lobotomies. Youknow, when people used to have

(49:20):
mental illness, they wouldremove the frontal lobe. When
women were

Speaker 5 (49:22):
pregnant and gaining a lot of weight, smoke some
cigarettes. It'll help to

curb your appetite. Even I'm thinking
about the practice of footbinding. Yes. Curb your
appetite.

Raven, I'm thinking about the practice of
foot binding. Yes. You know?Like, that that would just be
yes.

What? Yes. Like, we what? So barbaric. I hope
that it's so barbaric when mydaughter is my age.
That's specific. Thank you.Thank you. Okay. So if people
wanna find out more, lean intothis work, possibly attend your
live event, where should theygo?
Just come to Instagram. You canfind everything there. It's

(49:54):
midlife muse, and I will besharing everything that is
happening, how to be involved inone form, fashion, or another.
And there's just there's contentthat will definitely stir
something in you, either aninferno for the good or that you
may want to delete and block meimmediately. I don't know.
But either way, I am all for,elevating our conversation.

(50:18):
Whether I see you at an inperson event of mine, whether I
meet you online, or you read mybook that comes out in January,
or start listening to my podcastthat comes out in May, we have
What's it called? It's calledmid well, it's named Midlife
Muse because we're reallykeeping all of the branding
super tight. Very wise andefficient. But then it's called
the subtitle is things yourmother never told you because no

(50:41):
one ever told her.

That's beautiful. That's super beautiful.

Yeah.

I feel blessed in this moment that my mom told me
a lot of good stuff, But there'splenty of your mom. Yeah. She's
great. She's great. She's she'san original.
Me. She taught

me a lot of things back in my the child
birthing days. I learned a lotof things from natural
childbirth parents.

That's amazing. That's amazing. Thank you for
this conversation. Thank you forthe work that you do. Thank you.
For your generosity and, like,that deep connection because the
overflow is felt. And it'sreally abundant and generous,
and I'm just grateful for you.

Thank you very much for having me. I've enjoyed
every minute. Both times.

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