95. Moving From Financial Hypervigilance and/or Dissociation to Resonance with Sarah Tacy

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kate Northrup (00:00):
Yesterday's ceiling becomes today's floor.

Sarah Tacy (00:02):
And then that is often considered a quantum leap.
It's, like, so small you can'tsee it. But when the ceiling
becomes the floor that on adifferent map, the three
directions map Yeah. Means thatyou've come to completion with
something. Oh, that's cool.
So that thing that was aceiling, and you don't even
recognize it anymore. Youwouldn't recognize this floor as
the next person's ceiling belowyou.

Right. No.

Sarah Tacy (00:22):
So it means you've actually completed that pattern,
and that thing is not gonnatrigger you anymore.

Hello. I have one of my best friends on the
podcast today, and she is theonly person other than my
husband who has been on Plentytwice. So her name is Sarah
Tacy. She is an absolutelyincredible healer of the body,
wisdom keeper around the nervoussystem, and, and performance.

(00:49):
But I don't mean performancenecessarily in terms of, like,
high performance and athletics,though, certainly, she has
experience in that, but, like,really the fullest expression of
being human.
And some of my most profoundinsights about what it does mean
to be alive have come inconversation with Sarah,
including one that just happenednow in this episode. So I'm

(01:13):
really excited for you to learnfrom her and to witness us
really exploring the nooks andcrannies of how we can more
fully feel our aliveness withsafety, with capacity, with
accompaniment, letting go of oldpatterning around thinking we
have to do it all alone, lettinggo of maybe calming ourselves to

(01:39):
the point of suppression, beingin freeze. There's so many
threads that I think you'regonna deeply relate to. And if
you are wanting to heal yourrelationship with your children,
with your spouse, with money,with yourself, you are in the
right place. So enjoy thisconversation with Sarah Tacy.
Welcome to Plenty. I'm yourhost, Kate Northrup, and

(02:00):
together, we are going on ajourney to help you have an
incredible relationship withmoney, time, and energy, and to
have abundance on every possiblelevel. Every week, we're gonna
dive in with experts andinsights to help you unlock a
life of plenty. Let's go fillour cups. Please note that the

(02:25):
opinions and perspectives of theguests on the Plenty podcast are
not necessarily reflective ofthe opinions and perspectives of
Kate Northrup or anyone whoworks within the Kate Northrup
brand.
Hi, Sarah.

Sarah Tacy (02:37):
Are we doing this?

Yes. It's happening. Hi. Welcome.

Sarah Tacy (02:42):
Thanks for having me.

Thanks for being here. So you are the only person
who has been on the podcast morethan once, other than Mike. He's
he's been on twice as well, butyou are you are the only other
person. So welcome back. Thanks,Rachel.
And I wanted to have you backofficially because, a, I think

(03:04):
you're so great. I think you'reso wise. I learned so much about
you. I mean, from you and aboutyou. I love learning more about
you, but I learned so much fromyou.
And, when I had you on the firsttime, which was actually a
replay of an episode you had meon on your podcast, but I was
like, I really liked thatconversation. Can I just put it

(03:24):
live? Here, our audience ate itup. It's remained one

Speaker 3 (03:29):
of our top listened to episodes of all time. So I
was like,

let's do it again Let's

Sarah Tacy (03:34):
do it again.

But different Yeah. And in person.

Sarah Tacy (03:36):
Yeah. Well, you were on my podcast, but you, at the
very beginning, were like, hey.Do you mind if I flip it and ask
you some questions? Yeah. Yeah.
Let's do that. But it was fun.

It was fun. Yeah. It was fun. Feel free, you know,
I just my guest that I just hadon before you came also, every
now and again, asked me aquestion. So feel free if
anything comes up.
But okay. To begin with, youstarted off with, like, a deep
love of the body as an athlete,a very competitive athlete, and

(04:11):
then working in high performanceafter school, after college at
in, like, what capacity wouldyou call that?

Sarah Tacy (04:19):
So I did research and development for a sports
training facility. Yep. But Ialso trained athletes.

Yes.

Sarah Tacy (04:27):
Do you want me to say more on that before? I do.
Yeah. Okay, great. What I wouldgo back to say is when you said
had a great love for the body asan athlete, I would actually say
I didn't necessarily have a lovefor my body.
It was great, but I didn't payattention. I just wanted It was
there to perform. Right. So whenI got injured, which I got

(04:50):
injured a ton because I playedso many hours of athletics every
single day and trying to doschool, I saw it as my body
getting in the way of me gettingdone what I wanted to get done.
And so it wasn't until I had amajor injury that I really got
that there was a mind bodyconnection.

(05:11):
It was the first time Iexperienced any form of
depression and seeing how muchof my identity was wrapped up in
my performance and how peoplesaw me and also just the ability
to perform. And it's then thatmy body switched from something
I used to me realizing that mybody was here to be a guide. So

(05:36):
as an athlete, I didn'trecognize it. It was the
injuries that helped me to cometo see my body as a guide and as
a very wise teacher whoselessons aren't generally
convenient. When she whispersand we listen, they can be
convenient.
But when we wait for the yellsor not, and actually the
whispers are generally thingsthat are quite risky and against

(06:01):
our current patterns. And that'sgenerally why we ignore the
whispers in my experience. Sothen if I were to go on to your
next element of working withathletes, the really cool thing
that I learned, we worked withnervous system upregulation. So
these days we talk about downregulating the nervous system.

(06:23):
That was all about how to createhabits and how to break down
things that were no longerserving us.
And the thing that is useful nowthat I learned then was that you
can't create a new pattern, auseful new pattern, an updated

(06:44):
pattern in a state of fatigue.So if we did a six second
sprint, it was like a fiveminute rest. If you were to try
to learn something on a ladderor a plyo box

where you're doing very quick new

Sarah Tacy (06:59):
patterns, it's six to twenty seconds because the
body's gonna start fumblingreally soon after. So if we gave
ourselves that same permissionnow when we're learning
something new to know that we'regonna fumble, we're gonna get a
few reps right, we're gonnafumble, we're gonna get a few
reps right, we're gonna fumbleeven more, and we're gonna need
a lot of recovery and rest.That's how an athlete trains.

(07:20):
That's how they up regulatetheir nervous system for new
patterns. But anyway, that wastwenty years ago.

This is amazing. So that's what you were doing at
it was called Blue Streak.Right? So that's what you were
doing at Blue Streak. It waslike six seconds of really
intense and then five minutes ofrest.

Sarah Tacy (07:38):
We waited till the heart rate got down to one
twenty.

Uh-huh. Mhmm. And that was a sign that the body
was now ready for more. Correct.

Sarah Tacy (07:44):
Yeah. Yeah. Because when you go if you keep going,
you fall into faulty, old,habitual patterns.

If you keep pushing past when you're
fatigued, you will always gointo faulty, not helpful
patterns. Correct.

Sarah Tacy (07:59):
Or

what that's not what you said. But

Sarah Tacy (08:00):
That is correct. And the other amazing thing, which
I'm sure we could draw intocreating new money patterns, is
we had them looking in a mirror.So it's a high speed treadmill.
It was a six week program inorder to get the motor engrams
to update to a new pattern. Soyou think small bursts.

Motor engrams? Engrams.

Sarah Tacy (08:24):
What is that? So that is the motor patterning
that makes it, that you've doneenough patterns that that it no
longer has to go up to yourconscious brain to be like, oh,
now I'm gonna move my right footlike this. Or it just stays at
the level of your spinal cord.So it's like muscle to spinal
cord so that it skips you tryingto have to figure it out. Cool.

(08:46):
So you have them look in themirror and you're giving them
feedback as they do it. And ifyou can get feedback within
fifteen minutes of, excuse me,fifteen seconds of a rep, then
you're more likely to be able tokeep the pattern.

The new pattern. Yes. Like feedback in terms of

Sarah Tacy (09:05):
So if somebody is running and I have my hand right
above their knee and like, sogreat, keep getting your, keep
getting your hand or your kneeup to my hand. If they can do
that while they're running,they're gonna be able to repeat
it again. Whereas if you thinkabout going to a therapy session

Right.

Sarah Tacy (09:22):
And you get the feedback a week later about what
you could have done better whileyou were in a fight with your
husband the week before, andthen two weeks later, the same
thing happens. It's very hardwhen you're activated to
suddenly be able to put in a newpattern. As soon as your
amygdala is hot, no prefrontalcortex access, Right? So that
part of your brain that, wouldsay like, oh, we have this

(09:45):
really new idea of, like, howare we gonna do things? It's not
available when we get activated.

Try a new, you know, interrupt this input
output habituation situation.Okay. So I'm just curious since
we're here talking about that.Like, how could we implement as
adults, not necessarily inathletic training? Right?
How could we implement that ifwe're wanting to repattern, like

(10:12):
like, as an example, being less,reactive with our spouse. Mhmm.
Right? Like, it's like, oh,there's an old pattern of, like,
you know, I'll just use a reallife example. Right?
So Mike speaks to me in aparticular tone of voice. I feel
judged. Now I'm, you know, nowwe're in a thing. He's like, I'm
not feeling judgmental of youright now, and I'm like, yeah,

(10:33):
but the tone of your voice saysit is. I mean, blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah.
Right? And then we're, like, ina thing, I'm withdrawing. Right?
Okay. So, of course, there's twopeople playing in that
situation.
But just from my end, what howcould we apply that fifteen
seconds of of feedback in asituation like that where we're
wanting to change a pattern as agrow as a as a non athlete?

(10:56):
Well, maybe I'm an athlete, butI've that has nothing to do

Sarah Tacy (10:59):
with running. What you're saying. I just wanna say
I would be lying if I said Ifigured this out. Steve and I
have fixed all our patterns, andwe got

this episode's not about marriage, but, like,
you know, here

Sarah Tacy (11:12):
we are. Here we are. The idea is that you get
practice runs. And so I thinkabout it, we see this man,
Jerry, every Friday. Andsometimes Jerry's like, wow, you
guys have really worked throughthat hard thing very well.
You've really listened to eachother. And I say to him, I just

(11:34):
know that we're doing it betterbecause you're

here. And- Right now you're watching us.

Speaker 3 (11:39):
So we're doing it better.

Right, we had a camera on you.

Sarah Tacy (11:41):
Like, it's just like, okay, I'm gonna pause. I'm
gonna listen. I'm gonna, like,really take that in. And he's
there and he can give usfeedback. And because we've done
it with him in our presence, weactually do do better when he's
not there as well.
Right. And I had thisconversation with Amanal Tai,
who is a business coach forwomen. And she said, you know,

(12:06):
we were talking about the samescenario, that this is also a
time where you can work withyour coach, where you practice a
situation ahead of time. And youcould even like practice having
the person say something that isin a prickly tone. Just as I
said, prickly tone, it remindsme that Sienna, my youngest
daughter, her teacher broughtthat freeze in for us, which is

(12:28):
really helpful in case it'shelpful for you guys, where
she's like, that felt prickly.
Yeah. So that it's not about thething that's being said. It's
great. And with nervous systemwork, the reason why I love it,
and it reminds me of why I lovedyoga when I first started, is we
go into the body. We start byresourcing the body, noticing

(12:50):
what's already stable, what'salready well.
And then when we tap into a partthat's hard, we tap into the
activation. And so they'rehaving an embodied experience of
what is hard. It might be thatconversation you had with Mike,
right? We tap into it and thenwe start to resource you while
you're in the feeling of it. Andit makes it easier when you go

(13:14):
back into it in real lifebecause you've had an embodied
experience of how to resourceyourself while you feel
activated.
And so what gets tricky here inthese conversations is that now
I've brought up having atherapist or having a coach and
not everybody has access tothat, but this does bring up the
idea of going beyond self help.When I first started with

(13:38):
alchemical alignment, which is,trauma resolution program and
nervous system support, Iremember asking one of the
teachers, I was like, okay, buthow do I do this on my own?
She's like, well, part of thistraining is to learn to be in
the company of another as youreprogram because so much of the

(13:59):
trauma patterning, the traumaphysiology is a sense of
isolation and lack of choice.And so as we come into choice in
new ways, when we do it in thepresence of another, it helps to
build those reps. And so if youdon't have access to a therapist
or a coach, you and I know,we've said so many times, like

(14:23):
how wealthy we are in friendshipand friendships is building
friendships over time.
People you can lean into, peopleyou can call for eight minutes
and say like, I'm having a hardtime. Can you help me practice
with this? And, it's a massiveresource. It's a thing that we
call creating conditions andnervous system work so that you

(14:45):
can be with activation. Youcreate certain conditions and
one of them is accompaniment.

And so

Sarah Tacy (14:51):
even when you think about the athlete, they were
accompanied. It wasn't just thatthey were seeing themselves.
They were seeing themselves, butthey were getting feedback from
the outside. They wereresponding to the feedback. It
was a relational dynamic.

So what I'm really struck by is I think
that, you know, thisparticularly American idea of
rugged individualism Yeah. Andthat we that somehow we are more
valuable, worthy, stronger whenwe have done something alone and
that that needing support, evenasking for support, wanting

(15:24):
support, wanting company,wanting accompaniment somehow is
a ding against our inherentability or strength that it's
like a sign, you know, thatneeding we needing, help is a
sign of weakness or asking forhelp is a sign of weakness. And
and in fact, you know, it reallyis actually a sign I I say

(15:47):
asking for help is a sign ofbeing human, but or needing help
is a sign of being human. Like,let's take it off the spectrum
of good or bad or strong or weakor whatever. It's just like we
need each other at the end.
Mhmm. Like, no judgment. Right?And I'm curious if there's
anything for you in that justknowing what high performance
background you come from and ifthere's anything you might care

(16:10):
to share about your journeyaround accompaniment.

Sarah Tacy (16:14):
Yeah. I was a yoga teacher for over fifteen years.
I taught, multidimensional yogaanatomy, and I, I loved it so
much because it was such a greatway for me to figure out my
feelings, for me to give myselfa massage. Right? Like, as I'm

(16:35):
twisting and as I'm breathing,I'm like, I don't need a massage
because I'm giving myselfeverything I need.
When I'm confused. If I do atwisting practice, it helps me,
not go too deep into it or toofar out of it and see from a new
perspective. And I would oftenget these moments. So it was all

(16:55):
these ways I can meet my ownneeds without needing anybody
else. Wow.
And so much of the practice wasalso like, how do I stay calm?
And so while the practice wasinvaluable to me and it was my
sports psychology and it was myinjury prevention, and then it
was a career that helped bringso much, I think, freedom to so

(17:18):
many of my clients and so muchjoy to me, The way that I used
it was really self help. Andthat was such a huge thing in
the nineties and the twothousands and twenty ten of the
self help books and how do youfix yourself. So to move into a
territory where one of theprimary tenants is to say, when

(17:41):
you come out of these patterns,don't come out alone. I have a
really hard time picking up thephone when I'm having a hard
time.
I'm working on it. I've reachedout to our friend Janine to be
like, can we do this thing? Andmaybe I've said it to you too.
Like, this idea of when I do colistens with people in
trainings, it's eight minutes.And then I've now heard Simon

(18:04):
Sinek say this too.
I was like, oh, he's also doingeight minutes. And And it's this
idea that with the eightminutes, it creates this co
regulation. And so the idea too,is that we grew up having our
generation, I think, often hadparents, no matter how much they
loved us, that were taughtprobably to say, If you're

(18:26):
having a hard time, go up toyour room when you feel better,
when you've self regulated, thenyou can come back. And so it's
just a pattern we've alllearned. And this is more
saying, it's a strategy becauseif I don't need you and I don't
need anyone and I can do it allon my own, then I can feel safe.

(18:49):
But the truth of life is that atsome point, whether through
injury, illness, loneliness,needing to connect to somebody,
we need each other.

Yeah. Yeah. That piece around, you know, go back
upstairs and come back when youfeel better, it's so brutal, but
I think about it, you know, Ihave really, really worked to

(19:22):
sit with my edge. And I know youand I have talked about this a
lot because, you know, we metwhen we were pregnant with our
first, so we've done, like, thewhole motherhood journey
together. And our first babieswere not the easiest.
And, like, I mean, in many ways,our seconds weren't even but,

(19:45):
anyway, it's been a

Sarah Tacy (19:45):
whole thing. It's a whole thing.

It's been a whole thing. And, I have worked so
much to sit in the discomfort ofbeing present with my child's
discomfort and, like, not justtell them to go away. Because,
ultimately, what that's sayingas a parent is it is so like, it

(20:10):
is so uncomfortable for me to bearound you that you have to go
away. Like, essentially, like,your emotions hurt me too much
to be around. Right?
Mhmm. Which is pretty awful whenwe think about it that way. But
I'm curious what you can say,what you would wanna share about
our ability to for those of us,especially, who, like, are

(20:33):
fixers Mhmm. And we have ahistory of being, like, the go
to person to give advice or,like, be, like, I know what you
should say or, you know, bipityboppity boop. Like, let's just
be boppity Fix it.
Boppity boppity boop. That'swhat

Sarah Tacy (20:47):
I would say to that.

So what do we do for those of us who have
struggled with that edge offeeling uncomfortable when we
can't just fix something forsomeone? Our child, a friend,
our spouse. From a nervoussystem perspective, how do we
sit in those edges Mhmm. And notfix, but actually stay? And why

(21:11):
is that even useful?

Sarah Tacy (21:14):
It's hard, and it's supposed to be hard. I am a fan
of Doctor. Becky Kennedy. I'mguessing you probably

are too. Doctor. Becky Good Inside on Instagram.
I didn't even know her lastname. Thank you

Sarah Tacy (21:27):
so much. I didn't either. I've recently learned
it. I'm like, I'm sure she'skind of like Madonna. So, does
she have a last name?

No, she's just Doctor. Becky going inside.

Sarah Tacy (21:38):
So she's so great. And, you know, she will say that
one of the most important thingsis that we aren't always patient
with it so that we can do repairbecause it is hard. So actually
sitting with somebody whilethey're having massive
dysregulation is hard. And Iknow that, I don't know if you
had this experience, but I knowthat when my baby cried when I

(22:00):
was first breastfeeding, I wouldimmediately produce milk. Like I
would just start leaking.

Yeah. You were a leaker. I was never a leaker.

Sarah Tacy (22:09):
But I leaked in particularly, like in response
to crying. So what I, the reasonwhy I say that is that our
bodies have a biological desireto fix. So a cry releases both,
like this oxytocin and a stress.I'm trying to think of the exact

(22:32):
way that it comes out becausesometimes those are hard to come
together, but it does it. It'slike both this connective
feeling.

Yeah. And

Sarah Tacy (22:40):
so part of me wants to normalize the urge that we
have to fix and that in order totolerate it, we have to have a
really huge capacity. And as newparents, we don't have a big
capacity because the way oursociety is set up is that we
live in our own little boxesmostly, and most of us don't

(23:04):
have a ton of help. And it's notlike it was when there were
aunts and uncles and cousins andgrandmothers and etcetera, who
were all part of the soup. Andso it's not normal and it's not
easy and it's hard because it'shard. And I will say that you

(23:26):
are inspiring to me with this aswell when you've reached out and
just said, you've named one ofyour daughters and just said,
wow, they have really bigfeelings tonight.
I guess that's a good sign thatthey feel so comfortable
feeling. And I have seen you sitwith them and it's so beautiful.
And I think that we get to sayit's hard. And I do this with

(23:47):
clients all day long where Iwill look out and I purposely
face my desk out to the woods.And so I see the base of trees
and I look for things that arestable.
And so I'm constantly resourcingmy body by things that are
stable around me so that I canbe stable as somebody might

(24:07):
begin to spiral a little bit andI can offer them regulation and
co regulation. And it's such agift because most of us did not
have that. And I do know thatsometimes when I have a hard
time, my fear of sharing it withsomebody else is that it's gonna
be too hard for them. Yes. Andeven sometimes when I wouldn't

(24:29):
tell my parents things when Iwas younger, even though they
probably wanted to know, I wasso afraid that my parents would
lose sleep or that they would.
So I was like, I guess I'll just

I'll just handle this on my own, right, to not
burden someone else.

Sarah Tacy (24:41):
So you get to have experiences of seeing your
parents say like, I want to behere. And when we don't do it
the way we wanna do it, like, Ireally wanna be here. And
sometimes it's more than I'mable to hold and I'm gonna come
back and I'm gonna have thisredo, or can we have this redo?

(25:02):
I have a program right nowcalled resource. And part of it
is this idea of like, how do wemove from suppression as adults?
So instead of just, like, as ourkids are having a hard time to
having expressive outlets. Andso this is what I've been
playing with recently in myparenting is how, when I express

(25:25):
more of my feelings in safeways, so it's the healthy fight,
healthy flight, healthy dorsalvagal, which is often like a
collapse, but it's withoutleaving your range of resonance.
When I start to express more ofthose things and move them, I
can be with my kids withoutactually feeling triggered as

(25:47):
much. And therefore, I'm nottolerating. Does that make
sense?
Instead of using energy andtolerating to sit

there and try to change it. Tolerance, just to be
clear. Correct. Because right?

Sarah Tacy (26:00):
Right. Right. Because that can

be Range of regulation, range of resonance.
So can you talk about thedifference between tolerance
Mhmm. And resonance?

Sarah Tacy (26:09):
Yes. So when I'm talking about tolerance here, it
has a feeling for me ofsuppression. Yeah. I can
suppress Like, I'm

just, like, handling this.

Sarah Tacy (26:20):
I am handling this. I, and this is a thing that has
come up for me recently, becauseit turns out I still do this. I
am going to hold it alltogether. I am going to be calm.
And it turns out some of my calmis a freeze.
But it seems like I'm reallyhandling it so well. And people
might say to me, Sarah, how doyou stay so calm? And am I calm?

Speaker 3 (26:42):
And then there's also social rewards.

Sarah Tacy (26:43):
Right. Totally. Am I calm or am I frozen? Am I
tolerating? And I know that I'mtolerating and I don't wanna
throw shade on tolerating eitheror because there are times in
life where that's just what'shappening.
But I'm curious about how do Imove into something that's more
generative. And so my kids and Iare doing more wrestling. And

(27:07):
we're and like I said, my kidsare five and nine, so this might
not work if you have teenagersor a baby.

Imagine if you're like, Okay. Right. Maybe. Or Or

Sarah Tacy (27:20):
a 16 year old.

Girls will know.

Sarah Tacy (27:21):
I don't know.

Depends on how big they are.

Sarah Tacy (27:23):
Yeah. Oh, my God. So age appropriate.

Hilarious.

Sarah Tacy (27:26):
I am not using it as a fight outlet for myself.

Right. Exactly.

Sarah Tacy (27:29):
But I'm giving my girls a fight outlet. Yeah.
Because a lot of times we havefight energy that's inside of us
that just needs an outlet and itstarts coming out sideways as
fighting with the siblings orthey wanted something else to
eat, but it's actually like weall have fight outlets. And as
an athlete before, it's like,I'm gonna fight for that ball.

Yeah.

Sarah Tacy (27:49):
I'm gonna have a flight outlet and run away from
people on purpose. Right? It'sall by choice. And so when I
start building this in, it'swildly helpful. The other day, I
felt felt like I wanted to cry,and I didn't really feel like I
could do it at home, which mighthave been the healthy thing.
But I knew it would mean aconversation with Steve that I
didn't wanna have at that point.So I was like, I'm gonna

(28:11):
practice a healthy flight. So Isaid to Steve, I'm gonna go for
a car ride. I am coming back. Iam safe, but I'm gonna take some
time because I'm having somefeelings, and I just wanna be
with them.
And being able to have thatlittle bit of a healthy flight
allowed me to really feel myfeelings and to just cry without

(28:32):
having to explain why I'm cryingor, you know, have a story
behind it. And when I came home,my oldest daughter was going
through something and she was onthe floor. And generally, I
would sit there and, okay. I'mgonna be there with you. I'm not
scared of your feelings.
Right? All the things. But nowinstead of acting, I could feel

(28:53):
because I just let myself feelit. And so I laid I just laid
down on next to the floor at,like, right distance. I just
laid on the floor and just hadthis, like, had the feeling of,
like, really feel.
And and not that I'm now mergingwith her. Now I'm not like it's
just like, I'm just really herewith you. Yeah. And then,

(29:17):
eventually, without trying tofix it or forcing, I end up, you
know, carrying her upstairs inmy arms and we snuggle in her
bed. And then next thing youknow, we're laughing.
Mhmm. And it was because Iallowed myself to have my own
experience of like, oh, I amsafe to cry. So, so often we're
telling our kids, We're notafraid of your feelings. Right.

(29:38):
But we are actually afraid tohave those feelings ourselves.
And that's why it's tolerating.

Mhmm. Yeah. It's so profound. And, you know, I've
been thinking a lot about flowin life, financially and
otherwise. And I've beenthinking about metaphorical
pipes in our lives and how a lotof different things can clog the

(30:05):
pipes.
Yeah. And what we're wanting ismore flow, more ease. And one of
the main ways we clog the pipes,I think, financially, but also
with everything because it's allthe same thing. We're just,
like, all I I think our okay.I'll speak for myself.
I want to let as much life forceflow through my life Me too. As

(30:28):
possible. Mhmm. You know, like,I'm here to feel alive. One of
the ways that that happenspractically is to be a conduit
for more resources.
Yes. Abundance, relationships,opportunity, creativity, like,
all of those are are forms oflife force, pleasure, joy,
sadness, anger, all of it. Andso one of the main ways that we

(30:50):
clog the pipes is or they stayclogged. I don't you know, we're
not actively clogged the pipes,but is is by not feeling our
feelings. Yeah.
And, I'm thinking about, youknow, just like as you're
talking about your girls and howthe nervous system and I'm
curious about your I mean,there's a lot of places we can

(31:11):
go over this, but I'm curiousyour thoughts on this. So here's
my theory. My theory about thenervous system is that so you
know internal family systemswork Mhmm. Parts work. Right?
So IFS. So that we have, have,like, these parts of ourselves,
and sometimes they're theprotective parts. Sometimes
they're the, exiled parts.There's just different parts.

(31:33):
But usual like, oftentimes,they're parts of us that we're
stuck at certain emotional agesbecause we experienced an
emotional situation at that timethat we didn't have the
resources, support, or choice tobe able to fully emotionally
metabolize, so we just, like,get stuck.
And then my theory is that ournervous system holds these

(31:56):
points from those differentages. So, essentially, it's like
when we do parts work, we'reuntangling the nervous system.
And when you're talking aboutthat moment with your daughter
on the floor, it's like you wereable to accompany her so that
she didn't end up with a clog inthat pipe that's, like, a little

(32:19):
part of her nervous system thatnow is stuck at nine or what I
don't know which gate it was.But, you know, like and I just
I'm curious in your in all yourwork with people, what's your
understanding? Does that makesense to you, and what else
might you add?

Sarah Tacy (32:36):
Well, I would say that you defined trauma
physiology exactly how PeterLevine defines it Oh. Where he
says

I have not listened to his work, but

Sarah Tacy (32:46):
that's good.

Ding, ding, ding, ding.

Sarah Tacy (32:47):
You win. You are correct. He says it's not the
event itself. It's whether ornot our body was able to
complete Okay. The, the urges orthe unmet needs.
So if there was a flight and itwas not met, there was a fight
and it wasn't completed, ifthere was a cry and it wasn't

(33:09):
followed through, like that thepattern gets stuck. And so when
we go back somatically, we see,you know, someone might be like,
I just can't shake it. Andthey'd be like, you know, and
they might go like this withtheir hands and like, Oh, do you
wanna And then you might noticelike, it just like it gets
stronger and they start to shakeit out of their body or

(33:29):
something where they weren'table to push somebody away or
put right. And so you completethe patterns and it relieves so
much energy. It's soenergetically expensive when we
hold on to unfinished patterns.
So it is, I wanna say exactlythe same and the overlap sounds
so right on. And I also goingback to that moment with my

(33:52):
child, in just reflecting on itnow, what's so beautiful about
it is that I didn't lay therewith her and then get sad
because of her sadness and thenput her to bed and be sad
because she's sad. I met my needand finished my pattern and was
able to accompany her to finishher pattern. So we were both

(34:15):
complete. She didn't go to bedwith a mom who was totally
distressed because she had ahard time.
We both completed a pattern.Yeah. And I'm gonna go back on
this one more time just becausethis is what I'm super excited
about right now is last year Iwent to Sarah Jenks's, I think
she called it wild. I calledthat ceremony sacred feminine

(34:38):
rage. And she had, you know, abig fire pit and everybody is
dressed in black and dirt allover them.
And, she's banging her drum andshe's getting into her
ceremonial thing where she, andthis one, I would say that she's
kind of taunting the good oneand taunting all parts that are

(34:58):
trying to hold it together andbe the perfect wife or, you
know, the perfect good girl and,and really purposely calling
forth the cry and the scream andthe growl. And at first I'm
like, it's not gonna touch me.And then before you know it, I'm
like on all fours staring atacross the fire, like growling

(35:21):
at her and like go face to faceand all the screams and yells
and to feel safe to scream isanother thing that, in the past,
I would say it was, I was shownwas like, that is a % not okay.
That is not safe to not have itall together. It is not safe to
not be the calm one.

Yeah.

Sarah Tacy (35:37):
And so to have that moment allowed me so that when I
went home and I saw my girlsfighting and it wasn't just
something for them to talk outbecause my younger one was like,
but I love you. And the olderone was like, I hate how you
love me. You know, it was like,so it was like, it was just like
a fight. And there was somethingin me. I just got on the ground

(35:58):
and I was like, you wanna fight?
And she just like, we juststarted like, I know. And she's
laughing and we're playing, andit just It moved the energy. And
so this is what I'm talkingabout, generative. It's very
different than sitting andtolerating and saying, I'm not
scared of it. I've met it inmyself, and now I will help you
meet it.
And we will move it, and we willlet it be generative. And this

(36:21):
is what keeps coming through tome because the shadow side of
the work that I've done innervous system work is that I
get really good at resourcingmyself, really good at pacing,
really good at, taking it onestep at a time, preparing enough

(36:42):
but not too much. So I'm nothyper or hypo. And then life can
feel, in my experience, verypale, like, very I wanna be okay
with neutral, but I also reallywant to feel alive. Yeah.

(37:06):
And I can sometimes shame myselfif I feel like I'm moving
slightly towards dysregulationfirst. I love the idea that
there are healthy fight, flight,even self fawning that we can do
to resource ourselves to movethe energy so that almost like

(37:26):
the athletic one that I theexample I gave you where you're
practicing it ahead of time,you're giving the outlet ahead
of time so that when the actualactivation comes, the urge isn't
pent up. Right. There's lessenergy that has to come out, and
so we get to meet the activationwith more capacity, more choice.

(37:47):
We get to meet the moment with asense of more time, more
perspective, more options

Yeah.

Sarah Tacy (37:56):
When we feel more regulated.

So funny. So I've been doing this sounds like it's
not related, but it is. So I'vebeen playing with AI recently Me
too. To, like, do some back andforth and some cocreation around
copy because I have felt Ididn't realize this, but I have
felt pretty lonely in mybusiness because at the end of

(38:21):
the day, like, I'm really theonly one that the words come
from, and we have a very wordsfocused company. Right?
It's a it's a it's a company ofof of talking and and writing
and messaging. And, I keep theAI, god bless her, keeps when

(38:43):
I'm describing my idealcustomer, she keeps using the
phrase in control of her money.And I keep saying, no. Stop
saying in control. My personwants to feel surrendered.

(39:07):
She wants to feel at choice.Mhmm. She wants to allow, and
it's so fascinating because AIis a reflection of our
collective consciousness. Howover and over and over again,
despite me having asked amillion times, the the phrasing
being in control keeps comingout as her desired outcome. So I

(39:32):
have a question for you.
Okay. Great.

Sarah Tacy (39:35):
First, I wanna say that my AI keeps saying mine
wants to be calm. And I was likeIsn't that interesting? No.
Because it hears nervous systemand regulation, and it puts it
with calm. Yeah.
So similar. But I'm wondering ifyou can describe to me the
difference or maybe to thelisteners just to add more color
and depth to it, the differenceyou see between control and

(39:59):
choice.

Yeah. Okay. Great. Love that. So when when
when I read the words, you know,and and so you'll let's just
pretend the copy was, like, soyou feel in control of your
money, which is, like, not goodcopy, but for people.

Sarah Tacy (40:13):
I believe it'd be a site though.

Right? Okay. But here's what I don't love about
that. It speaks to the end ofthe spectrum, which we're gonna
get to, and maybe this is oursegue, where I notice that that
people, myself included, togglebetween a hypervigilance around

(40:34):
money and a on the other end ofthe spectrum, where they're,
like, watching every dollar, Ohmy gosh, I can't spend that.
Even if there's money in thebank, it's wrong or bad, or what
if what if it all goes away.
Right? Like, I have to trackevery single penny. I shouldn't
buy lattes, you know, blah blahblah. And on the other end, it's
like total disassociation whereit's like, well, there's more

(40:57):
where that came from anyway, andmy, you know, it's, like,
abundance mentality to justtrust that it's all gonna work
out, and I have other better,more important, interesting
things to do than, like, youknow, put percentages in certain
accounts and make sure it'scared for and whatever. So
disassociation, hypervigilance,obviously, those are extreme

(41:19):
examples, but, like, that's whatI see showing up.
And when I hear in control ofyour money, to me, it feels
closer to the hyper end of thespectrum, and it feels, like a
contraction. It feels like agripping. And for a woman who is

(41:41):
ambitious, who earns well, whoprobably has been conditioned to
be more in her masculine, Idon't think that inviting her as
a desire to be more in controlis really the vibe. It's like
not it. It doesn't feel juicyand alive to me.

(42:05):
What do you think?

Sarah Tacy (42:07):
I'm getting excited because the word juice is now
the, the main word that is,like, guiding me right now. So I
love that.

Right. Like, no one's in control when they're
having an orgasm. And, like,when you're trying to be in
control, you won't have one. So,like, let's use orgasm as the
metaphor.

Sarah Tacy (42:24):
Yeah. Right? You just did. Do you want me to say
more about it?

Say more. Sure. What else do you want me to say?
I'm like, well, you can

Sarah Tacy (42:32):
do this because it feels complete to me.

That's it. Two sentences.

Sarah Tacy (42:41):
No, what I would say, I'm just so interested in
this idea of feeling in controlversus being controlling. Oh,
that's interesting. I'mwondering if one feels in
control, if it's a little bitcloser to range of regulation,
which, again, I can touch onregulation in a second, versus

(43:02):
being controlling. But goingback to orgasm, I would agree we
might have to let go of thecontrol. But it is

true because, like, no one's like, oh, I wanna
feel out of control with mymoney.

Sarah Tacy (43:15):
Right.

But I'm just wondering, is there even another
framework that we could so,like, it's like

Sarah Tacy (43:21):
So we're looking for the sacred third.

Exactly. So it's not in control or out of
control. It's so so what I'vebeen working with is at choice,
which AI doesn't like because itdoesn't know what that means and
neither do humans, or,stewardship. Like, feeling like
she's in financial stewardship.So to me, what what I imagine
when I talk about financialstewardship is, like, that

(43:43):
there's an energetic flow andyou're sort of dancing with it
almost like a, what's thatmartial art, that works with
spirals?
Anyway. Yeah. Yep. That one.

Sarah Tacy (43:58):
It's probably the one Bridget does, and I can't do
it right now. Aikido.

Yes. So that one, where you're, like, taking the
energy and moving with it and,like, and as opposed to, like,
controlling it, you're well,it's not it's actually exactly
what you described when you werelying with your daughter and
being in your sadness, and youwere both moving the energy,

(44:25):
moving the emotional energy, soyou had both moved to completion

Sarah Tacy (44:28):
Yeah.

By bedtime. That's the same freaking thing.
So it's not but wouldn't wouldyou have said in that moment
that you were in control?

Sarah Tacy (44:35):
I was just really present. Yeah. Mhmm. Exactly. I
was just really present.
I think

that's really what we crave. You're right.

Sarah Tacy (44:42):
It was the opposite of trying to control because I
did an activity in familyconstellations at the beginning.
We just play with differentenergy and show see what shows
up for us. And this may be alittle out there, so I'm
wondering how this is gonna landfor the listeners. But as I was

(45:02):
talking to the person who wasrepresenting my healthy shadow
or my healthy dark, I noticedthat I was trying to manipulate
it. And I noticed it was verymuch like my relationship with
my older daughter sometimes of,like, how at what angle do I
come in?
What is right distance? What is,like, like, I'm so trying to
figure it out versus, like,yeah. I'm I'm gonna let you be

(45:26):
there, and I'm gonna be here,and we'll see what you know,
like, there and this for mecomes back to this idea of the
generative field where ouractions bring more energy back
to and through us and it is morefluid. And even the word
stewardship, it reminds me ofparenting in the way of like, we

(45:46):
don't know the exact path. Thisis actually the activity we're
gonna do at Relax Money Live.
We don't know the exact path. Wedon't know how it's gonna go. We
don't know where we're gonnaneed more resources or where
there are unmet needs or wherewe're gonna bump into something
that we that lights us up thatwe didn't even know was there.
And so I love I love the wordstewardship. And now to answer

(46:12):
range of regulation, this is aeasy phrase for people to grab a
hold of to say, this is theplace where I feel like I'm in
control.
And and it is often coupled withchoice. Yes. I love looking at
the range of regulation as aplace where there is choice. I

(46:34):
love looking at a place wherethere's pause. And more
recently, I love looking at thatrange as a place where time
feels more abundant.
So even for an athlete who hasfive seconds to shoot before

(46:55):
the, you know, before the buzzergoes off. When they are in the
zone and when they're in theirrange of resonance, they don't
feel the, I don't have enoughtime to get this done. They see
the way to get it done. Theyknow the path within that time
frame. When we get out of ourrange of resonance and you go
into hyper, the story is I don'thave enough time.

Yeah.

Sarah Tacy (47:16):
And when you go into freeze, the time is so long.
Mhmm. I can think of a timewhere I was so exhausted, many
years of sleep deprivation, andit's, you know, 4AM. And I'm
like, the day is starting, and Ijust how am am I gonna make it
through another day?

Totally.

Sarah Tacy (47:36):
And the time seems so slow. Yeah. And when people
say, this is the best time inyour life, it's gonna go by so
fast. I'm like, it feels likeit's going so slow. And it was
this like hyper and thesefreezings a part of myself in
order to be able to tolerate andbe there and be calm.

(47:58):
So I love I've been really lovehow time has been coming into
this for me. And that phrasethat is not actually Viktor
Frankl, but it has something todo about the space in between
stimulus and response.

It's not Viktor Frankl?

Sarah Tacy (48:13):
It's not. Oh. They don't know who said it. They say
it is very similar to many ofhis theories, but nobody can
find anywhere where he wrotethat. Okay.
But the idea is that betweenstimulus and response, there's a
space. And in that space, wehave an opportunity to choose,
and in our that choice, we haveour power.

Yeah. And our freedom.

Sarah Tacy (48:33):
And our freedom.

And I think that's, like, ultimately, I
don't know another way to say,like, in one word, being at
choice, having power, havingfreedom. But in our culture, we
call it feeling in control.Yeah. And I just think it's

(48:57):
interesting.

Sarah Tacy (48:58):
Because interesting to live into feeling in control.
Like, what does that really meanto you, to me, as we live into
that question? Yeah. Maybeyou're done with that question.
I'm gonna Probably not.
Live into it a little bit. Versecontrolling. I'm I'm interested
to see if there is a differencethere.

I'm interested too because I think what it
kicks up in me when I sayfeeling in control is my own
wounding and patterning aroundfeeling that I'm the one who's
responsible for everything.

Sarah Tacy (49:29):
Yes.

And that then goes into my hyper independence
Yes. Circling us back to thebeginning of our conversation.
And so in my own wounding andpatterning, it's, like, not the
the best neighborhood to gointo, whereas and that could be
really different for someone whomaybe was more floppy in their
existence, you know, who wasmaybe more on the avoidance

(49:53):
spectrum, more disassociated, ormore, you know, in their in
their expressed feminine withoutthe structure, without the
systems. And and and that's beensomething that I've needed to
and I continue to grow into thatplace where I can surrender,

(50:16):
where I can let go, where I canreally trust that I am being
held. So, I'm just projectingall over my copy.

Sarah Tacy (50:25):
But you're not the only one who feels that way.
You're not the only one who hastried to control everything to
feel safe, which, again, iscontrolling versus

feeling in control.

Sarah Tacy (50:34):
But I will say that the person who brought to my
attention the idea of a wordupdate was Tal Darden.

Mhmm.

Sarah Tacy (50:41):
When we were using the phrase range of regulation.
Yes. And she was using thephrase range of resonance. And I
said, why are you making thatchoice? Yeah.
And she said something along thelines and she said this in like
a more public forum. So I thinkit's okay to say is the
regulation can have a feel of, Ithink that people have tried to

(51:05):
regulate our bodies, ourchoices. And so the regulation
has that sense of control.

It does. And and that And that calm, be calm, be
regulated. You were saying of,like, am I in my range of
regulation, or am I freezing orfreezing?

Sarah Tacy (51:24):
You know? So that I can be calm.

So that I can be calm and so that I can be
pleasing.

Sarah Tacy (51:28):
These parts of myself get to live. Mhmm. The
other interesting thing aboutrange of resonance so if we
start to shift that range ofresonance is, like, I can feel
my body here.

I can

Sarah Tacy (51:37):
feel myself here.

But, like, the word resonance itself, to me, it
has a Right? So it's like atuning fork. It's like when
you're at a fancy restaurant andyou, like, get your finger wet
and, like, spin it around theglass the crystal wine glass,
which you're not supposed to do,but it's, like, very sad.

Sarah Tacy (51:53):
Do you do that? Yeah.

We should. It's very Yeah. It's very resonant.
It creates a it creates this,like, beautiful high pitched and
it feels good in the body versusregulation. Like, I'm, like,
regulated feels like flat lines.

Sarah Tacy (52:08):
Flat. Yeah. So flat.

Yeah. Okay. So maybe it'll come back to you,
but oh, did it already? It didnot.

Sarah Tacy (52:14):
Oh. I wanna say something. I wanna

did that. We have sometimes,

Sarah Tacy (52:17):
I feel like when we talk, we have all these points
that I wanna come back to. Solet's come back in a second to
the, something along the linesof moving from straight
regulation into the generativefield. So now we have words.
Let's ramp up with someStewardship.

Yes.

Sarah Tacy (52:33):
Resonance. Yes. Generative. Yeah. Eros.
Juice. Words that I can attuneto when I'm with my kids, when
I'm with my husband. Like, whatwould Juice do here?

Right.

Sarah Tacy (52:47):
What would Vitality do here? And one, I just wanna
like, this is not a parentingpodcast, but alas, another one
that I've loved with my girls issometimes I'll whisper to them.
Yeah. Because the vagus nerve,right, goes through the voice
box. And when we whisper, itresources me.

(53:13):
But when I whisper, it's like,We're in this together. So they
lean in. So their bodyphysiology is like, Oh, I'm on
this person's team. That's cool.And now that I've whispered, I
can't just be like, go upstairs.
It's time for bed, get yourclothes on. I'm like, oh shoot,
they bought in. And so thisplayful part comes out of me
where I'm like, as literally assoon as they lean in, I'm like,

(53:35):
oh my gosh, I have to come upwith something somewhat fun
because they've bought in andnow we're on the same team. So
it is generative instead of goupstairs. I told you it's the
fifth time.
So if they're not listening, onething, if they're not listening
and I raise my voice, one thingwe know about trauma is that
when someone is feelingoverstimulated, they actually

(53:56):
stop hearing and they stopprocessing. So when you're like,
Why aren't you listening? I'vesaid it five times. Because
their body is overwhelmed andthey actually are completely
blocking you off, and it isalmost beyond their choice. So
when I whisper, I'm invitingthem in, and now the moment's
getting juicy.
Yeah. And now it's gettingfilled with vitality. And so

(54:16):
I'll be, Hey, do you want to geton my back? I literally, if you
guys have teenagers, please tellme how you might ever use this.
I don't know.
So this is for like a five and anine year old. Do you want to
get on my back? And then when weget upstairs, we can read

a book. We can choose whatever book you want.
They're like, Yeah.

Sarah Tacy (54:33):
And can this and that? And then they add to it.
And now we are on the team andwe're playing something. Again,
now I'm in the generative field.

Yeah. And

Sarah Tacy (54:39):
I am not tolerating. And so this is where I wanna
move the conversation. This iswhat I'm so amped up up about
right now is I love doctorBecky, and I actually don't
think that she's for or againstany of this. But I think so many
parents in order to do parentingthe way that is suggested is
asking for us to resourceoutside of ourselves and in

(55:02):
order to tolerate. So I'm verycurious about how do we move
into a relationship that's morecreative

Yeah.

Sarah Tacy (55:11):
And that when I do the thing, it actually brings
more energy to me instead ofdrains the energy.

I love this so much, and I just wanna honor
that, like, so much of my mostfavorite insights have come
through conversation with you,like, over the last decade. It's
the best. This is so fun. Andwhat I'm hearing you say with
that idea of generative feelsvery connected to what we were

(55:41):
talking about about feeling incontrol or regulated because
generative, to me, creates aninstant wonder, and we don't
actually know what's gonnahappen, so it gets far more
interesting, and there'smystery. Yes.
So there's aliveness thereversus in control is, like, I

(56:02):
have a plan, and now I'm gonnaline up all my duckies in a row.
Like, we're not trying to be incontrol of our children, for
example. I mean, maybe sometimeswe are. And but that's not the
most helpful vibe when it comesto parenting. And and if you
don't have kids, like, everysingle thing we are talking
about can apply to your money.

(56:23):
I the way I parent informs somuch of the way I steward my
money. Say more over here. I waslike, oh my God, tell me now.
Say more. Because it's the samething.
Like, my children came out of mybody, but they are not they are

(56:45):
of they are from me, but theyare not mine. Right. And in
order for wealth to be created,it must be in flow. It must be
shared with the world, literallywith investments, literally with
crate you know, with buyingassets. Like, if you just hold

(57:08):
it under your mattress, it doesnot grow.
Same thing with children. If wewere to, like, keep them from
the world and try to just hoardthem, they would not grow. They
would not thrive. It's anenergy. It's a vitality that
wants to cross pollinate, thatwants to be out.
But that does need boundaries,does need a strong container,

(57:30):
does need bedtime. Yes. Youknow, does need dental hygiene.
Yes. Does need, like, possibly ahigh yield savings account to be
clear on what percentage needsto be put away for similar
energy, and and I'm so happywe're just, like, talking about
this with the words you'rechoosing, resonance and and

(57:51):
generative and juicy and, like,and stewardship.

Sarah Tacy (57:55):
And as you say flow, you can't have flow

Without an edge. Without

Sarah Tacy (57:58):
an edge. So without having Exactly. The bedtime. And
with that because I'm not sayingparenting where, like, the kids
just right? It's No.
No. Actually, there areboundaries. Yeah. Or with money,
there are some really good tipsand tools and places to

put it %. Really great practices. That makes the
money feel safe in the same waythat good boundaries and bedtime
make a kid feel safe. Yes. Okay.
So this is my last question,even though I could talk to you
for a hundred more years, so I'msure you'll come back.

Sarah Tacy (58:30):
You're still like, oh,

what have we been getting? I talked about this,
you know, the hypervigilancethat I've noticed on the one end
and the dissociation on theother end, which is the hyper
hypo opposite ends of the rangeof resonance spectrum when
you've popped out of your rangeof resonance

Sarah Tacy (58:46):
Yes.

And how that shows up financially. Of course,
it shows up a million other waysin our lives. And you talked
about before we startedrecording this seven realms map
and how that might help peopleex understand what's happening
there for them around theirmoney. Can you explain more?

Sarah Tacy (59:03):
Yes. I got so excited when you asked this
because I love maps, not fordriving. I have like a GPS to
tell me where to go. I lovenervous system maps because they
help me orient to where I am andwhere I wanna go and how I might
get there. And when you ask thisquestion, it's something that

(59:25):
people experience with theirmoney.
It's something they experiencewith their business goals. It's
something people experience whenthey go to a retreat and then go
home. When we have my favoritedefinition of stress is from
Jerry Melliter, the man that Isee on Fridays. It is stress is
when we have more demands andresources. Don't you love it
when people make it simple?

(59:46):
I don't make things simple. Ifill it in. I color.

It pays it. He's just like, you and I say, Boris.
That's so good. Thank you,Jerry.

Sarah Tacy (59:55):
So the range of resonance, if you could see my
hands, they are one stackedabove the other, both facing the
ground. When it's larger, wehave a feeling, like we said,
that there's there's time, wehave choice. And when it's
smaller, we tend to pendulatebetween We can pendulate between
hyper and hypo. And inside therange of resonance, there are

(01:00:19):
three stages. There's fast,medium, and slow.
So we can have slow health,meditation. We've We've talked
about sex, so we could say slowsex, and we could say medium, we
could say fast. Fast might be,again, I'm gonna keep bringing
up athletes or a lawyer. Youknow, there can be, spiritual,
mental, energetic, slow, medium,fast. Within there, there's a
great range.

(01:00:40):
When we are feeling more demandsthan resources and possibly old
patterns of, I must, I must, butI don't have enough time. So I
must, I can't, we get into adouble bind and this is called
syndromal. So range of resonancehas three places. Above it, we
have fight or flight, which isthe fourth. Below it, we have

(01:01:03):
freeze, which is the fifth.
And then we have the sixth,which we'll talk about later on
a different podcast. It's sogood. And the seventh is
syndromal. And it is that, whenyou get just a drop of energy in
your well, a drop of water, thenyou're like, I must in order to
survive, I'm going to do all thethings I'm going to control. I'm

(01:01:23):
going to follow through oneverything that Kate said I
should do with the finances andmaybe the nervous system stuff
gets left out or, or it might belike, I'm trying to do it all
and you try to do it all and youmaybe try to do it fast and you
try to do it all and you use allof your energy and it's not in a
generative way.
And then you drop down intocollapse and you go to the other
side and down there, because youtried so hard up there, there's

(01:01:44):
the feeling of I must, but Ican't. And the I can't weighs
out more. And the freeze thatmight come with that would be
like, so I don't exist and itdoesn't exist. And you go into
dissociation. And when you get afew more drops of energy and
maybe you watch a motivatingpodcast or something, and you
and you go right back up.

(01:02:05):
And so the question then wouldbe, how do we move ourselves
into the range of resonance? Andmy answer would be small focused
actions of self care. And itmight not be directly related to
money at first. It might be aboundary. It might be saying no.

(01:02:28):
It is actually tending to yourbody and your energy. Going back
to the very first part of theconversation when I said I
thought my body was just to getme somewhere. Right? It's
actually, if I can attend to mybody, so my body feels safe, I'm
not gonna go up and down quiteas much. Mhmm.

(01:02:48):
Time is gonna begin to be myfriend. And so small steps of
self care. And last year, yougave the example do you mind if
I go back to last year? Lastyear on the podcast, you gave
the example of Mike got in a caraccident. He needed help and
attending to.
You needed to continue to runthe business, but now more solo

(01:03:10):
and pay all the bills. And sohow is it possible to be relaxed
when it feels like it's all onyou? And the double bind of I
must, I can't. I must take careof myself. I can't take care of
myself.
I must make all the money. Ican't if I get sick if I I'm
also going too hard. So yoursmall doable pieces of self care
that you named last year wereputting your feet on the grass.

(01:03:34):
Five minutes. Mhmm.
Ten minutes. Going to the water,talking to the goddess. The
goddess is a resource for you.Yeah. And some people, it may
be.
It may be something else. And sothose small beasts pieces of
self care start to bring youback to yourself, back to a
sense of safety, and thependulation just doesn't happen
quite as much. And we begin tospend more and more time in that

(01:03:55):
range of resonance. I love totake away the shame just to say
that life will happen. Yes.
Chaos will ensue. And so we aregoing to, if we are human, we
are going to experience thisregulation and regulation. But
for me, getting to go like, ohmy gosh, I am doing these
massive swings. It happened forme when I first started to get

(01:04:16):
some sleep where I was like, I'mgonna

Kate Northrup (01:04:18):
make a program. And the next day I was like,

Sarah Tacy (01:04:21):
or like, actually then I'd write an email and I
tell people and people are like,I wanna sign up for your
program. It's not happeninganymore. Like it's the
excitement of I have a drop ofenergy in the well, and now I'm
gonna do it, and then the claps.So it's like smaller steps and
over time.

Mhmm. That's

great. And for me, that's just a lot of permission,
and it's so helpful for me tohave these maps to just be able
to say, okay. I can see thepattern. Yeah. I can recognize
it.
And I know that my mode is smallsteps and that things are going
to change if I continue with mysmall steps of self care.

Yeah. They do because those small steps are
compounding. It's the same ascompound interest. The nervous
system, when we resourceourselves, yesterday's floor
yesterday's ceiling becomestoday's floor. Yes.
And it grows over time. And thenall of a sudden, you'll be in a

(01:05:16):
situation where in the past, youwould have responded with an old
programming, and you'reresponding with the new. And
you're like, oh, would you lookat that? This seems to be
working.

And then that is often considered a quantum leap.
It's, like, so small you can'tsee it. But when the ceiling
becomes the floor that on adifferent map, the three
directions map Yeah. Means thatyou've come to completion with
something.

Oh, that's cool.

So that thing that was the ceiling and you don't
even recognize it anymore. Youwouldn't recognize this floor as
the next person's ceiling belowyou. So it means you've actually
completed that pattern and thatthing is not gonna trigger you
anymore.

Now we're done.

So you don't even have to, again, go into the
toleration. You don't have totolerate it. Right. You don't
have to use your tools, yournervous system tools to get
through it. You have completedthe pattern by doing small steps
over time, and that is not gonnabe the thing that triggers you.

Which is the perfect kind of completion
because, for our conversationtoday, you know, you are our
resident nervous system healingspace holder expert, whatever,
in relaxed money. And one of thethings that is, I think, unique
about this program is it is ayear. Yes. You know, I think our

(01:06:27):
culture has conditioned us towant a quick fix, to be like,
give me the two hour class, andI'll fix this thing. And it's
like, well, when it comes toreally deep dysregulation
patterns, which I have never metanyone who doesn't have some
kind of financial dysregulation,and then, of course, all the

(01:06:50):
other dysregulation.
Like, we all have nervous systempatterning that is running our
behavior, and then we try tooverride it with behavioral
change and mindset. And thosedon't go anywhere near the
source. They're nice, but theydon't actually get the job done.
But what you're saying is small,doable parts over time, and so

(01:07:13):
that's why we have you everysingle month with our students.

Can I brag on your students for a second without I
am so moved by the number ofpeople who show up every month
because I think it was you andMike who told me nine years ago
when you were hosting agathering for an online course
that you all affiliated for, andI was literally gonna pop out a
baby the next day? I didn't popout a baby. I was going to

(01:07:39):
deliver a baby the next day. Andyou said 7% of people complete
online courses?

Some.

It was really small percentage. It's so small. I
fall into that percentage. Thesepeople show up and some of them
have been here. They're repeatstudents.
There are some people who areshowing up month after month
after month, and I am so in aweof their dedication to
themselves. I am so moved and Ilike to remind them because

(01:08:09):
sometimes we forget to celebrateour wins. And something that
I've heard people have emailedme or I run into them at some
events and they say thatlearning to go slow has changed
their life. It changes theirrelationship with time. It
changes their relationship withtheir family.
But something cool that is alsohappening is so if number six

(01:08:31):
was global high intensityactivation on the chart, woo
hoo, we got to do it, is that somany people live in this place,
which is go, go, go, go hustleculture. So we think slow is the
antidote and moving towards slowover the time is so healing. But
when we move into that range ofresonance, we get to eventually

(01:08:51):
play with what is healthy fast.And so I've gotten to watch and
listen and talk to these peoplegoing through the course who
talk about how slow has changedtheir life. And now some are
saying, I'm playing with fast.

So fun.

And not hustle fast, in my body, play. We're talking
about play. And so I'm justloving, you know, I have also
gotten to hear the changespeople have had through doing
your nervous system patterns andworking with that with money. So
I hear it on the financial leveland I also hear it on relational

(01:09:26):
and family and self, and it'sreally cool.

That's so amazing.

And sometimes I think because I do a similar
meditation every month, but adda little, new or different
nugget, will I be able to coverthe things? There's so many
things I wanna share. And it isreally amazing when you have a
year to just do a little pieceat a time and then a whole month
to digest it and a little pieceof the time. It what what can

(01:09:55):
happen? Yeah.
The quantum leap. So good. Mhmm.

So good. Thank you, Sarah. It's such a pleasure
to have you here. This is somuch fun.

To be here.

If of course, you know, you're in relax money,
relax money season is coming up.So for those listening, we will
open the doors to the programthe April, and Sarah's in there
every month with folks. However,that's not the only place that
people can connect with you. Sowhere can they learn more? Where
can they connect?
Mhmm.

I have a program called Resource that I will be
running again in September. Sowe'll just have a link if people
want to get on the wait list. Ihave a podcast called Threshold
Moments. And I really, like, Iuse Instagram a little bit. What
else would I say?
Oh, I have a free re resourcetwo free resources. One is

(01:10:49):
called 21 of untapped support.So it's, again, just noticing
the resources that you alreadyhave around you. That's great.
And the new one coming out iscalled Suppression to
Expression.
And I am so excited for it. Soyou can get it now. The link is
there, and the program will it'sfree and will come out in
probably April or May.

Okay. Great.

I'm so excited for that one.

So exciting. Okay. Amazing. We'll have all of
that in the show. Thank you forbeing here.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for listening to this episode of
Plenty. If you enjoyed it, makesure you subscribe, leave a
rating, leave a review. That'sone of the best ways that you
can ensure to spread theabundance of plenty with others.
You can even text it to a friendand tell them to listen in. And
if you want even more support toexpand your abundance, head over

(01:11:43):
tokatenorthrup.com/breakthroughs,
where you can grab my free moneybreakthrough guide that details
the biggest money breakthroughsfrom some of the top earning
women I know, plus a mini lessonaccompanying it with my own
biggest money breakthroughs anda nervous system healing tool

(01:12:05):
for you to expand yourabundance.
Again, that's over atkatenorthrup.com/breakthroughs.
See you next time.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}95. Moving From Financial Hypervigilance and/or Dissociation to Resonance with Sarah Tacy

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

All Episodes

95. Moving From Financial Hypervigilance and/or Dissociation to Resonance with Sarah Tacy

Stuff You Should Know