Point of Relation Podcast

Point of Relation Podcast

Point of Relation podcast illuminates the path to collective healing at the intersection of science and mysticism. Host Thomas Hübl welcomes visionaries, innovators, artists, and healers for deep conversations about how we can activate our shared intelligence to meet the most pressing challenges of our time.


February 20, 2024 18 mins

Thomas discusses two forces that drive us as human beings: the will to become, and the will to belong. He explores how our formative parental relationships can either encourage or subdue our drive to become our authentic selves and how our early strategies to compensate for scarcity can influence our path as adults. 

Thomas emphasizes the relationship between becoming and creativity and notes the harm caused by inhibiting a child’s...

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Thomas is joined by wholeness advocate, thought leader, and legendary Grammy Award-winning singer-songwriter, Alanis Morissette.

They discuss how to adhere to your values while passionately pursuing your life’s purpose, and how to re-connect to your authentic self after experiencing trauma. Alanis shares the somatic practices that helped her to overcome dissociation and experience embodiment again, and the pivotal role that art and...

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On this episode of Point of Relation, Thomas is joined by author, political candidate, and former US Capitol Police Officer Harry Dunn, and author, consultant, and advocate for post-trauma awareness, Bob Delaney. They discuss the trauma faced by public servants, including those in law enforcement, and what can be done to foster healing and end cultural stigmas around therapy and mental health challenges. 

Harry opens up about how h...

Thomas Hübl explores what motivates people to walk the spiritual path, and how it can be difficult to discern our true calling when our personal and societal environments are fragmented. He explains how being present with and processing our experiences allows us to fulfill our spiritual karma, heal inherited wounds, and close narrative circles that originated in the past.

Thomas defines karma as an unconscious energy that presents ...

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On this episode of Point of Relation, Thomas is joined by author, spiritual teacher, outspoken activist, and the founder of the Center for Transformative Change - Reverend angel Kyodo williams. They discuss the healing power of being seen as your true self, and how this creates the conditions for collective healing.

Rev. angel explores how systems of power and oppression have created divisions in our society and undermined our sens...

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On this episode of Point of Relation, Thomas is joined by author, consultant, and advocate for post-trauma awareness, Bob Delaney. They discuss the profound impact of Bob’s time doing undercover work to infiltrate mafia crime families. He experienced intense shame and guilt from deceiving the people he was investigating, despite believing that the work was necessary. 

He and Thomas discuss how Bob overcame the isolation and trauma ...

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Thomas answers questions submitted by listeners. He explores how post-traumatic learning and growth can occur both individually and collectively. Collective healing is a powerful force that can help our societies evolve by surfacing past wounds that need to be addressed, giving us the opportunity to restore our social ethics, and helping to prevent similar traumatic events from occurring in the future.

He also discusses what causes...

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On this episode of Point of Relation, Thomas is joined by humanitarian, writer, and social entrepreneur Zainab Salbi. They discuss the difficult nature of working in the humanitarian space to address the many injustices that people, particularly women, face worldwide. Zainab explains how being open and vulnerable about her own traumatic experiences gave her the compassion and inspiration needed to tell women’s stories and work to e...

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On this episode of Point of Relation, Thomas is joined by poet, author, speaker, and leadership consultant, David Whyte. They discuss the deep benefits of learning to hold both happiness and difficulty at the same time. David shares some of his poetry and the personal experiences that helped him to directly observe the interconnectedness of all living beings.

He and Thomas explore our individual and collective reluctance to be vuln...

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Thomas is joined by PhD trauma researcher, life coach, and the author of "Unbroken", MaryCatherine McDonald.

They discuss Dr. McDonald’s work to redefine our understanding of trauma and eliminate the stigma surrounding it. Using scientific research, and through the lens of her own experiences with trauma and grief, Dr. McDonald has developed a definition of trauma that describes it as “an unbearable emotional experience that lacks ...

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Thomas answers questions from Point of Relation listeners about activism, presencing, and staying grounded and open to joy amidst global suffering and uncertainty. He explores the mutually resourcing relationship between contemplative, internal practices, and collective actions that aim to affect social and political change.

He also offers tools and practices to help us maintain emotional and spiritual regulation while being deeply...

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In this short bonus episode, Tibetan Buddhist teacher, author, and co-founder of the Namchak Foundation, Lama Tsomo shares a Tonglen Meditation practice. In Tibetan, Tonglen means “sending and receiving.” Lama Tsomo guides us through a compassion practice focused on the pain of being misunderstood. She invites us to first send compassion to ourselves, then to someone we know, and finally to all of humanity.

In this 10-minute medita...

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Thomas is joined by Tibetan Buddhist teacher, author, and co-founder of the Namchak Foundation, Lama Tsomo. They discuss Tibetan Buddhist teachings and practices that illuminate our fundamental interconnectedness and enable us to approach our relationships and our reality with greater compassion and empathy. Lama Tsomo explains how Compassion Meditation can help loosen the grip of the ego, and make us less reactive in conflict.


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On this episode of Point of Relation, Thomas is joined by author, poet, ordained Zen Buddhist priest, teacher, and artist, Zenju Earthlyn Manuel. They discuss the gateways in Zenju’s life that put her on her spiritual path. Zenju beautifully describes the joyful curiosity of spiritual inquiry, and the power of ritual and ceremony to create sacred spaces where collective pain and trauma can be expressed, witnessed, and healed.

She e...

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Thomas is joined by filmmaker and founder of the Identity Development Institute, Stephen Gyllenhaal. They discuss the pain of living during these uncertain and tumultuous times, and how having the courage to face our collective trauma can help us navigate this unprecedented era. In an interconnected world, things like violence, war, and mental illness are undeniable. And sometimes the institutions that are meant to address these pr...

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In part two of this special Q&A series, Thomas answers more of the thoughtful questions submitted by listeners during his recent live event with Dr. Gabor Maté. This Q&A centers on topics explored in Thomas’ recently released book - Attuned.

In this episode, Thomas discusses the impact of individual healing and attunement on larger social systems, and what is needed to create more grounded, attuned, and trauma-informed workplaces.


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Thomas is joined by cultural anthropologist, social entrepreneur, and author, Joana Breidenbach. They discuss the ecosystem of disinformation that is fragmenting society and the systemic factors that contribute to it.

Joana explains the role that technology plays in how we obtain and interpret information, exploring the motives of those who spread disinformation, and the historical trends that have made it increasingly difficult fo...

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Thomas is interviewed by distinguished Irish poet, theologian and mediator, and the host of the Poetry Unbound podcast, Pádraig Ó Tuama. They discuss the relationship between spirituality, religion, and trauma, and the importance of incorporating art - including writing, poetry, and visual art - into social healing rituals. Pádraig emphasizes that “Art speaks to our being in a different way than rational words.”

Their conversation ...

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On this episode of Point of Relation, Thomas Hübl is joined by author, Jungian psychotherapist, and renowned Jewish scholar, Rabbi Dr. Tirzah Firestone. They discuss the centuries of trauma that have yet to be metabolized in our collective unconscious, and what we can do, both individually and collectively, to integrate and heal from this painful shared history.

She and Thomas explore how trauma lives in our nervous systems, and is...

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In this special Q&A episode, Thomas answers some insightful questions submitted by listeners during his recent live event with Dr. Gabor Maté, which focused on topics explored in Thomas’ recently released book - Attuned: Practicing Interdependence to Heal Our Trauma–And Our World.

The questions covered by Thomas explore how to practice attunement in an environment of harsh political polarization, why it’s difficult - but possible -...

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