September 15, 2025 • 36 mins
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Magic in the Mundane: Sarah Iverson on Gamifying Wellness
Discover how Sarah Iverson transforms personal growth into playful adventures through wellness escape rooms, storytelling, and creative game design.
Sarah Iverson is the founder of Curious Sunshine, a play-based wellness initiative that transforms personal growth into an imaginative adventure. A multidisciplinary artist, graphic designer, and holistic coach, Sarah fuses her love of puzzles, storytelling, and wellness to create experiences that spark joy, reflection, and real change. Backed by a B.A. in Art and a Master’s in Environmental Leadership, Sarah’s work lives at the intersection of creativity and consciousness. Through Curious Sunshine, she develops escape rooms, courses, and coaching programs that help people move from stuck to sparked—using play as the engine for transformation. Whether it’s decoding riddles or unblocking old patterns, Sarah invites you to explore the magic of your mind, one curious step at a time.
Rob is a host and consultant at Professor Game as well as an expert, international speaker and advocate for the use of gamification and games-based solutions, especially in education and learning. He's also a professor and workshop facilitator for the topics of the podcast and LEGO SERIOUS PLAY (LSP) for top higher education institutions that include EFMD, IE Business School and EBS among others in Europe, America and Asia.
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Guest Links and Info
- Website: curioussunshine.com
- LinkedIn: Sarah Iverson
- Instagram: @playfullysarah
- YouTube: playwithcurioussunshine
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Links to episode mentions:
- Recommended book: The Playful Intelligence by Anthony T. DeBenedet
- Favorite game:
- Paper Mario series
- Sudoku
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Lets's do stuff together!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
think something that I fail at, or like a repeated fail, is really communicating where mycreative brain space is.
I get a lot of like, so what is it?
What are we doing?
Yes, and this is Professor Game, where as you know, we interview successful predictionersof games, gamification, and game thinking to help us multiply engagement and loyalty.
(00:26):
As you saw, we will be diving also into some of the difficulties you can face when doingsome of these things.
And as you might know, I am Rob.
I'm Rob Alvarez.
I'm a consultant.
I'm the founder of Professor Game.
And I also teach gamification and game-based solutions at IE University, IE BusinessSchool, EFND, EBS University.
and many other places around the world.
(00:46):
And before we dive into the interview, if you realize that you're struggling with thiskind of engagement, with your loyalty, with the motivation of the people in your business
or in your community and want to help doing just that, you will find our free resourcesuseful.
You can find all that by clicking in the description.
(01:09):
So, Engagers, welcome to another episode of the Professor Game.
Podcast and we have with us today.
We have Sarah Iverson, but Sarah we need to know are you prepared to engage?
Let's do this because we have Sarah who is the founder of curious sunshine That is aplay-based wellness initiative that transforms personal growth into an imaginative
(01:33):
adventure Multidisciplinary artists graphic designer and holistic coach.
She features her love for puzzles storytelling and wellness to create experiences at spark
joy, reflection, and real change.
She's backed by a BA in art and masters in environmental leadership and Sarah's work livesat the intersection of creativity and consciousness.
(01:54):
And through curious sunshine, she develops escape rooms, courses, coaching programs thatdevelop people move from stuck to sparked using play as the engine of transformation and
whether it's decoding riddles and blocking old patterns.
She invites you to explore the magic of your mind.
One curious step.
At a time so Sarah, there anything that we need to know that has not been said already?
(02:16):
you covered it all.
That's pretty much it.
Let's do this.
So Sarah, if we were to shadow you for a day or week or whatever you want to go for, whatwould that look like?
What kinds of things are you doing these days?
What's a regular day of anything for you?
It really does depend because my schedule does depend on what projects I have going on, umknow, what events, know, what seasons happening.
(02:43):
But I would say for a regular day, for a day, I usually wake up and do some sort ofmeditation or go to the gym, really get like my mind, my body and my heart connected so I
could move forward with the day with like a clear head.
And then I'll come back and I'll
map out the day, figure out, okay, what do got to do today?
(03:05):
What's the most pressing, you know, high, you know, high ticket issue that I have totackle and then really just strategize for the day.
I'll spend the first half doing the emails and handling more admin work.
And then I usually ideally like to spend the last half of the day doing creative work,rather it's painting, drawing, working on, you know, the conceptions uh of
(03:30):
of a project.
And so I'll kind of sit and work on that and maybe watch like a movie while I do it andallow the creativity to flow.
then for a week.
uh So during the weekdays, that's usually my schedule.
It's not that exciting, know, clients and you know, do some stuff in the evening and onthe weekends is when I'll do events.
(03:51):
So I'll do retreats or
attend a market or do some sort of networking event.
And so the weekends is where I can really be a little extroverted and crawl out of myhermit cave and socialize with folks.
So yeah, that's usually how my, how my weeks, my days and weeks go.
(04:13):
Amazing, amazing.
So Sarah, with all this experience that you've had, all this exciting stuff that you'redoing, I am sure that, you know, things are flowing beautifully.
And that's one of the reasons why we, we, we, we found you.
However, there's also been times when things don't flow as well.
And, and you have at least initially, like in the, word that I'm going to say, you havefails or first attempts in learning.
(04:34):
So we want to go by, you know, one of those times when you're trying something, somethingnew, or maybe you've done it a million times and it just didn't work this time.
We want to be there.
want to live that experience with you and take away any ideas or something that helps usnot experience that pain hopefully in the future.
Yeah, absolutely.
think something that I fail at or like a repeated fail uh is really communicating where mycreative brain space is, especially for a project.
(05:07):
So if I do create an escape room or some kind of gamified experience, uh reallycommunicating what that means to the,
my clients to my customers to the community.
I know that my brain operates a little different and I know the vision in my head.
(05:28):
And so when it comes to like promoting or sharing what I'm doing, I get a lot of like, sowhat is it?
So how do I do this?
So what's going on?
And really taking a step back and saying, okay, how can I communicate this in a way thatis
simple enough for folks to understand.
(05:51):
Because again, I'm working on this project.
So there's this colorful definition in my head.
And I'm like, yes, we're going to be whisked away into this whimsical journey.
And people are like, I don't even know those words that you said.
What are we doing?
And so really rewinding and saying, okay, this is a game.
This is an in-person game.
This is a virtual game.
(06:12):
The goal of the game is to do X, and Z.
So I think
I've had a lot of failures in the marketing aspect.
I'll pour hours and days and months into a project and it'll flop because I promote it ina way that makes sense to me.
And it doesn't make sense to anybody else.
(06:33):
That's a tough one.
It's tough one because you're, you're, you know, it's not just about empathizing.
It's you can empathize and at the same time, you don't think about the way that otherpeople think necessarily and think it through that way because you're not them.
Even though you empathize, there's still all that legwork that you need to go through and,know, testing and many other things that, that go into that for you to be able to reach
(06:54):
that point where your message, the way you say it is, is listened to the way you want itto be heard as well by the other people.
Right.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And I mean, it's, it's a test, know, we're, you know, experimenting and exploring becauseI am creating these games and experiences that are kind of new and unconventional and
(07:15):
people haven't really heard of these things yet.
And so really just like throwing a lot of things at the board to say, okay, what sticks?
What, what do people understand or what gives them the invitation to try this out?
sense and in the exact opposite direction.
So we talked about a fail or a difficulty that you've even had repeatedly as you werediscussing.
(07:37):
What about something that actually really worked for you?
So it could be a proud moment, a project that you want to showcase, like whatever thatwas, we want to live through that experience with you and, and take away any, any of the
expert insights you got from, doing that.
Yeah, I would say I'm going to highlight my most recent game that I released, but I thinka win is my virtual wellness escape room that I just released in June.
(08:08):
And the reason why I call it a success, well, there was actually a few successes thatpushed me into saying, okay, this is the right step.
This is where I need to go.
In the work I do with Curious Sunshine, there's a lot of PowerPoints and talking aboutfacts and scientifics.
(08:29):
And this is how our brain benefits from mindfulness and play.
And it became very corporate educational where it's like, here's the PowerPoint slide.
I'm going to talk at you.
And I hated it because I was like, this isn't playful.
I can't have a play-based business and then have it not be playful in my approach.
(08:49):
And so I was ruminating and thinking about how can I create this fun game experience thatstill talks about how important this stuff is, but it takes users into this experience
instead of just this event where I'm talking at them.
And so I was like, okay, I love doing puzzles.
That is something that is like a weird, a weird thing.
(09:12):
was like, I don't know where to insert this, which is why I love my business.
Cause it gives me a chance to explore and put all these weird.
quirky ideas into practice.
And I was like, all right, let me create this escape room idea.
And I want it to have this wellness component because there's not much out there thatmerges play and wellness together.
(09:35):
And so I was like, okay, let's merge these together.
But I want people to walk away with something.
I don't want them to just play the game and then like, okay, cool.
I played the game, it's done.
But what tools can you?
can you gain from it?
And so I added this goal setting component.
So at the end of it, you will have a goal and some steps that you could accomplish itthrough this playful lens.
(09:57):
And I was like, all right, I don't know how I'm to do this, but it's going to happen.
And I reached out to a few of my play colleagues and one of them was like, oh yeah, do youwant to, that sounds great.
Like develop a training for us as well.
And, and you'd be able to share this with our
with our community over on the West Coast.
(10:18):
And I was like, okay, so this idea isn't bunkers.
This makes sense then.
You want in on this action.
Perfect.
And so really developing this game and having another set of eyes and another brain inthis process really helps because again, I know what I want.
I know I understand the goal.
And so to have someone say, okay, but I don't.
(10:40):
So let's rewind.
Let's simplify.
You know, the people that this is going to be
um, catered towards, they need to understand this too, because the concepts can be deep.
And so really diving into that, um, and making it my own touch.
So using my art, I illustrated the story and, know, I'm, narrating it.
(11:01):
And so it's my own, like, it was my own little project where I can like pour myself intoas well.
Um, and so that is, you know, at the end of it all at the, you know, launching it andhaving it be.
tested, like beta tested and everything.
I got a lot of great feedback of like, yes, this really helps me view my goals in thisplayful lens and really understand myself deeply as well as understand why these goals are
(11:29):
so important.
And it has this like computer game vibe, like how like in elementary school and you playthe computer games and the computer labs.
So it has like this innocence and the simplicity to it, which I love.
And so I think that is.
really big success for me because I want most of my offerings to be a practice of what mybusiness is, which is creating a more playful world.
(11:57):
And it's like, then I need to create more playful experiences.
So that's my latest success that I just think does what it needs to do in communicatingthe importance of Curious Sunshine while also creating a fun and playful um
journey for the people playing it.
(12:18):
Amazing.
there, you mentioned you just finished this one and I love, you know, sort of the approachand how everything sort of lines up in many ways with your approach and everything you've
been thinking.
um Were you to approach a new project for yourself or a client?
Do you have some steps?
Like how does your, maybe your creative process work?
(12:38):
Do you do it somehow or is it just, you know, things just go rising?
What does that look like if somebody came in through the door?
Is it like, well, I'm going to guide you through this or what would you tell them in thatsense?
And what would be the actual, the actual, what does the action happen?
for the game.
Yeah, you're creating the game from scratch, something entirely new.
How do you get from, you know, somebody coming in your door and saying, Oh, I want thisthing.
(13:01):
have this general idea.
And actually then the game being, you know, sort of delivered.
Yes.
So I would say really looking at the problem first or looking at the outcome, reallylooking at like the root, like, are we here?
Why?
Why do we want this?
And really digging deep into the why.
(13:21):
Not just I don't want I want to have fun.
OK, but but why?
And using that curious part of curious sunshine to ask the right questions and dig deep.
And it's like, OK, this is the core reason why we're here.
And then to kind of work backwards and say, okay, well, to solve this problem or toeducate on this thing, here are the steps that we need to do to get there.
(13:45):
Really looking at, you know, the audience, right?
Who is this for?
Is it going to be in person?
Is it virtual?
Is it something that's going to be repeated?
Is it a series?
Can we break it up?
You know, and really looking at the overall, um, scopes, because that is going to shapehow, you know, these experiences in these games are built in this case.
(14:05):
it's very much self-directed.
there was a lot of, you know, creating ample tools and assistance to help folks if theyget stuck in some point.
creating any supplementary PDFs or anything like that is essential.
And so, um and so really diving in to what that looks like and then looking at elements,right?
(14:30):
What's the story?
Is there a story that's involved?
Is it, we the characters is the player, the character, are we following a character?
And then of course, because I, um, I like to use my strengths and so my strengths are art,puzzle storytelling, um, and creating these magical moments in these somewhat mundane and
(14:53):
boring scenarios.
So cool.
How can we add art rather that's through actual visual art illustrations?
Is it through music?
we create, you know, a fun jingle or something to help us remember or retain?
Um, is there fun movements or gestures that we could add in?
And so really looking at these fun toy, like a toy chest, I think.
(15:17):
And I have a, like, I have a toy chest, like a theoretical toy chest of all theseactivities, games and puzzles and techniques that I could use.
And so we look at the toy chest, figuring out, okay, what are all the activities that arepossible?
And how can we add that alongside the story?
And then that's where the kind of experimental exploration comes in of how do we weavethis all together into this fun story?
(15:43):
How do we create this intrigue?
Because I do love the idea of adventure and mystery.
So anything I create is going to have this element of mystery and adventure.
So how do we bring in, you know, come to this mysterious adventure?
And then really guiding people through the story.
so I think creating something that is an experience and brings people in is very importantto me, whether it's putting them into the story or making it an experience where you're
(16:14):
walking through the space and creating this experience for yourself, but really playing onmy strengths because I can only, I think we create best when we're walking with
uh, more authenticity of who we are and how we best create.
So I'm not going to create a competitive sports game.
I'm not a sports person.
(16:35):
It would not, it won't go that well, but I can create things that involve a story andmaybe solving a mystery.
And I feel like that's where we start.
So when working with people, I also make sure to communicate that or it's like, Hey, thisis where I met.
Do you like this?
I'm the right person for you.
Let's figure out, you know, what you want to get out of this, how complicated you wantthis to be.
(16:57):
Um, or if you want it to just be more fun story with some games on the side.
And so then we, yeah, we started building the story and then add the extra bells andwhistles alongside that.
Amazing, amazing.
It's always getting, I love this part of the interview because I get sort of a tour intothe creative brains of so many interesting people.
(17:17):
So, ah love that, love that.
And, you know, from that process, from your experience and everything you've done, theremaybe what we could call a best practice?
No, not in silver bullet because people is like, yeah, what's the one thing?
And there's not the one thing, but something that, you know, makes your projects better oryou were to recommend it to somebody else.
Like, well just...
do this and it's not going be perfect, but it's going to be a little bit better than ifyou don't.
(17:41):
It's a best practice I have.
or that you recommend others like from your experience that you've seen that you've donemany times consciously or maybe subconsciously at this point that you think, you know,
everybody can just do this and their projects will be at least a little bit better thanotherwise.
say that because I'm a play person, like I love studying and learning and spreading theimportance of play.
(18:08):
And so my thing is getting to know how you play as your own individual self.
And there's studies that are out there that talk about play personalities and play styles.
For example, em
You know, some people may be more movement based and they find playfulness in moving theirbody, whether it's through running, dancing, hiking, anything where they're in their body.
(18:34):
That's where they excel.
That's what gets them into this playful state of mind versus some people like art, uhexploring, being social, storytelling, uh being imaginative, dressing up, pretending like
we're in a different world, uh playing with Legos, uh solving puzzles.
doing things like that, or even telling jokes and being a jokester and being silly.
(18:58):
These are all different forms of how we play.
And a lot of us take on multiple of these.
know depending on where I'm at and who I'm with, I could dive into this more jokesterpersonality.
And so really looking at these different ways that we play and really asking ourselves,like, why is it so, like, why do I?
(19:23):
have so much joy when I paint, right?
And asking ourselves and really getting to the core of why these playful activities bringus so much joy.
Because I feel like it's essential to who we are in our spirit, right?
This is our core spirit.
And, you know, getting into this metaphysical wellness spiritual scope of like what weintrinsically find as playful is a key to
(19:53):
our path and our authenticity and what will bring us liberation and help us open up allthese new avenues of how we can approach something.
And so I really dive deep into understanding how you play and then now looking at how youcan kind of bring in these elements into the work that you do.
(20:14):
So if you do like creative or creativity poems, right?
How can you create more em
more storytelling, more poems into the work you do and exploring our imagination.
so play, play personalities.
Yes.
And then my second one is really pushing the boundaries of our imagination.
(20:38):
And, know, living in a society that doesn't want us to imagine, right?
We want to be fed our imagination through social media, through movies, through all thisstuff.
And it's like, yes, this is how we imagine.
It's like, no.
we each individually imagine, use our imagination in different ways.
And I feel like our imagination is a act of divine connection.
(21:02):
It's like, I think of these ideas for a reason, right?
And my ideas are gonna be different than your ideas, which are gonna be different than thenext person's ideas.
And there's something magical and sacred to that.
And so honoring the sacredness of how we play and honoring the sacredness of how weimagine.
and knowing that our imagination is infinite.
There are roles that exist, there are jobs that are there that we just haven't discoveredyet because we don't allow ourselves to imagine outside of the box or know how.
(21:34):
So it's one thing to be like, I'm gonna imagine and think outside of the box, but to knowhow is a completely different ballpark.
And so I think...
also using our imagination in tandem to how we play is going to create these new avenuesof innovation and also create these new neural pathways.
(21:57):
It was just instantly going to change how we think because we're allowing ourselves tomove into this space of pushing, pushing outside of our comfort zone on purpose to create
these new things that we haven't thought of yet.
Very cool.
Plenty of recommendations there Engager, so listen up.
you missed that, you can always go back and listen to it again.
(22:18):
Sarah, now you've heard m many of these questions and seen the vibe of the podcast.
Is there somebody that you would like to hear on the podcast answering these questions?
Maybe somebody who's already inspired you, somebody who you're curious about?
I don't know.
Anybody come to mind?
man, I feel like I know so many people that would do really great on this podcast.
(22:40):
Okay, so I'm going to recommend, okay, and I say this because I consider myself someonewho works in the intersection between spirituality and play.
And I feel like there needs to be more conversations around spirituality and playfulnessand really combining these two together.
And so I have a really great friend.
(23:01):
His name is Dashaun and he really focuses on bringing play into spirituality and how toview life as a game and view spiritual connection as a game.
And so I think he'd be really great because he has this unique take on combining thesespiritual practices with a playful sense and a playful state of mind.
(23:28):
He calls himself the play priest, which I love.
And I highly recommend him because I always love hearing his insight.
And I think that um what he has to offer would be beneficial to really get a full scope ofgames and gamified um approaches to life.
Sounds very, very exciting.
And I had never heard of the play priest.
(23:52):
very, very good to have him on the scope or her.
um Recommended books.
Is there a book that you recommend the Engagers and why would that be?
uh
I'm also a big book person, like looking at my bookshelf right now.
I think a book that I, okay, there's a book that I love right now uh that's called ThePlayful Intelligence.
(24:16):
And I love this book because it talks about, and this is me being nerdy, like I lovelearning about how play can affect our brain and how we think.
and how, and these elements of what it means to have a playful mindset.
And so I love the playful intelligence because it talks about how um play can be used invery real scenarios and how these elements of spontaneity and humor and flexible thinking
(24:49):
play a role in creating more light and levity in these more heavier situations because
I do talk about play and the work I do is all about gamifying life and that doesn't negatethe harsh realities and the challenges and it doesn't invalidate any of the real traumas
(25:16):
and sadness that comes from these very real situations that we find ourselves in in life.
But what it does is...
It says, okay, if we can't necessarily stop suffering because that is part of the humanexperience, these are the ways that we can use a playful mindset to create liberation and
(25:43):
create this levity into our situation so we're not kind of spiraling into this hole ofsadness and darkness.
But how we can use it to not only bring joy to ourselves, but also bring joy to otherpeople in.
the experience and that's a lot of the work I do is cool, let's play, but now let's makesure that we can bring playfulness into when we've had the hardest day of our life or when
(26:09):
we've received devastating news.
How can we now use flexible thinking, spontaneity uh and humor to kind of elevate from thesituation and really learn what we needed to learn and heal how we needed to heal.
I love that book because it just shows these real life scenarios of how people have usedplayfulness in these very real applications.
(26:36):
Very, very cool.
Sounds like a great book for sure.
Sarah, what would you say is your superpower?
That thing that makes you better, at least than most other people.
It doesn't have to be absolutely a hundred percent unique just to you and nobody else inthe world.
That thing that is, you know, your sweet spot.
(26:56):
I would say that my superpower is adding magic to the mundane.
That is my thing.
I call myself the plate alchemist because I'm able to transmute these energies ofstagnancy, boredom, status quo.
(27:17):
And I'm able to kind of look and figure out how to transmute those feelings into somethingplayful, invigorating, lively, bold, exciting.
And so I think that is my superpower is being able to take, you know, things like choresor going to work and commuting and really figuring out, okay, we can't, we can't not do
(27:41):
these things to survive in society.
So how can we make it more playful, more fun?
How can we have this and add these elements of adventure and a journey?
into these things that we have to do every day because I believe that to be playful meansto go against the status quo and to be playful and to gamify life goes against the
(28:09):
traditional outlook on how we're supposed to navigate life.
And so it's a little streak of rebellion to be like, you know, I know we're supposed to dothis because we're adults, but I can actually do it this way too.
And still have in fact,
increase the outcome, increase the productivity, because I'm able to get into this placeof levity instead of this place of obligation.
(28:31):
So I have to do this.
It's like, oh, wait, this is actually kind of exciting now.
I'm looking forward to doing this thing.
And so yeah, being able to add magic to the mundane, I think, is my superpower.
Sounds like a very important one, especially in our line of work.
So Sarah, we come to the difficult question now.
(28:53):
The only one that's maybe difficult, I would say, the podcast.
What is your favorite game?
Can I have two answers?
Let's see.
So I'm a video game person and so I love Nintendo.
I'm a Nintendo girlie.
Always been that way since I was a child.
Like I think there's a photo of me somewhere.
(29:14):
I was like three and I have the old NES controller in my hand.
Of course my cousin's unplugged it and I am holding it upside down.
But the passion is there.
And so love any kind of Super Mario game.
I love
I specifically love Paper Mario because there is this element of mystery and it's like,no, something happened.
(29:38):
We need to figure it out.
And I'm like, yes, I love it.
And so I do love the Paper Mario um series that is on Nintendo consoles.
But I do have a, I do have board games that I like.
So for my board game, I do like Scrabble.
(29:58):
I love Scrabble.
I love being able to play Scrabble because there's it's simple.
I don't have to think too hard about that.
wait, actually scratch that.
My other favorite game.
I do like Scrabble, but my other favorite game is Sudoku.
(30:19):
I like Sudoku and I like this because I do play it more than Scrabble because you needanother person to play Scrabble and I could play Sudoku whenever I want.
And I like Sudoku because it
It gets me out of my mind, especially if I'm ruminating or having anxious thoughts or I'mjust like super stressed.
(30:39):
I'll play Sudoku and it calms my mind down.
I'm able to focus on just the numbers.
um It is my game that I play when I fly because I am not the biggest fan of flying.
And if it gets too, if there's too much chaos, all the people and all the whatever, I justopen up.
my phone and I'll start playing Sudoku and the time goes by fast.
(31:03):
I'm not thinking about X, Y, and Z.
And so I think Sudoku for me is a game where it can be used as a form of uh emotionalmental regulation and to calm me down.
And it is a big example of what I use in my work of like, we play depending on how wefeel.
(31:23):
So I'm not trying to get up and dance.
when I'm feeling, you know, when I'm in the airplane and I'm anxious because we're goingthrough a pocket of turbulence.
No, I need to get out of my head and, you know, stop all the crazy thoughts.
And so it's like, no time to play Sudoku.
Let's just figure out where the two belongs.
Where, what box does the five go?
What box does the seven go?
(31:43):
Right.
And then just really slow it down and, bring it, bring it in.
So yeah, I think Sudoku is my second favorite game.
Well, we have them ordered at least.
We have Paper Mario as the top one and then you have Sudoku.
It's okay to be a video game gal.
That's good.
uh Nowadays, especially having a toddler, we're very aware nowadays of the effects ofscreens early on and all that.
(32:11):
But I think I was five, maybe six when I got my first console.
I was very lucky that my family could get me that.
So I had my own console at five.
So what can I find maybe six?
don't know not entirely sure it was around that time I'm not even considering letting mydaughter have her own screen time by herself when she's that old but but that's because
(32:34):
China times have changed and we have new studies on all that stuff, but
This is true.
Yeah, the internet is very much.
I think it adds a little razzle dazzle to the screen time versus if you just had theconsole, you had like the game to focus on and that's it versus now it's like, I'm going
play this game.
I'm going to go watch this video and I'm going go do this thing over here.
(32:56):
Yeah.
The game has changed.
Yes.
The game has changed.
Sarah, is there, like I'd like to first thank you for spending investing this time with usand the Engagers.
But is there anything else you want to say before we end the interview?
And of course, let us know where we can find out more about your work.
(33:16):
Hmm, is there anything else I can?
Yes.
I mean, I invite people listening the engagers to think about how you play, right and bereally intentional with that.
I meet a lot of folks, especially in networking and I tell them what I do.
And, you know, I don't play or you know, the you know, I only do this form of play.
(33:39):
And then once we get into more conversation, then they're like, wait, I guess I actuallydo play in that way.
And I never actually
realized it.
And so knowing that we actually are playful human beings, that's something that we'rebiologically wired to do throughout our entire lifespan.
So truly examine what these other ways that you may or may not already play and how tobring more intention around it and use it and see it as a form of necessity, just as much
(34:09):
as sleep and food are important to us.
So is play.
so really bringing it into the space of, yes, there are times that we can set aside toplay, but also how to approach life in a more playful way can really elevate our
experience and how we play the game of life.
(34:31):
I think that is- Absolutely.
We definitely can.
And Sarah, where can we find out more about what you do in your work?
Yeah, so check out my website, Curious Sunshine.
There's actually a play alchemy quiz on there that you can take to figure out how youplay.
And there's some tips on how you can use that play style as leverage to your daily life.
(34:52):
Also, my virtual escape room, The Labyrinth of Mystery is also on my Curious Sunshinewebsite.
If you want to play that game, submerge yourself into an experience and then walk out withknowledge on mindfulness techniques.
and also uh some nice steps for how to tackle your goals in this new and playful way.
(35:13):
And then I'm also on Instagram at Playfully Sarah.
And you can also check out my YouTube channel where I dive a little bit more in play.
And that is at Play with Curious Sunshine.
Play with Curious Sunshine on YouTube as well, Engagers.
Plenty of value, lots of stuff that you can check out as well from Sarah.
Beyond this interview, however, Engagers and Sarah, as you know at least, for now and fortoday, it is time to say that it's game over.
(35:40):
Hey Engagers, and thank you for listening to the Professor Game.
uh
I guess and since you're interested in this world of creating motivation, engagement,loyalty, using game inspired solutions, how about you join us on our free online community
at Professor Game on School.
You can find the link right below in the description, but the main thing is to clickthere, join us.
(36:05):
It's a platform called School.
It's for free and you'll find plenty of resources there.
We'll be up to date with everything that we're doing, any opportunities that we might havefor you.
And of course, before you go on to your next mission, before you click continue, pleaseremember to subscribe using your favorite podcast app and listen to the next episode of
Professor Game.
(36:25):
See you there.
think something that I fail at, or like a repeated fail, is really communicating where mycreative brain space is.
I get a lot of like, so what is it?
What are we doing?
Yes, and this is Professor Game, where as you know, we interview successful predictionersof games, gamification, and game thinking to help us multiply engagement and loyalty.
(00:26):
As you saw, we will be diving also into some of the difficulties you can face when doingsome of these things.
And as you might know, I am Rob.
I'm Rob Alvarez.
I'm a consultant.
I'm the founder of Professor Game.
And I also teach gamification and game-based solutions at IE University, IE BusinessSchool, EFND, EBS University.
and many other places around the world.
(00:46):
And before we dive into the interview, if you realize that you're struggling with thiskind of engagement, with your loyalty, with the motivation of the people in your business
or in your community and want to help doing just that, you will find our free resourcesuseful.
You can find all that by clicking in the description.
(01:09):
So, Engagers, welcome to another episode of the Professor Game.
Podcast and we have with us today.
We have Sarah Iverson, but Sarah we need to know are you prepared to engage?
Let's do this because we have Sarah who is the founder of curious sunshine That is aplay-based wellness initiative that transforms personal growth into an imaginative
(01:33):
adventure Multidisciplinary artists graphic designer and holistic coach.
She features her love for puzzles storytelling and wellness to create experiences at spark
joy, reflection, and real change.
She's backed by a BA in art and masters in environmental leadership and Sarah's work livesat the intersection of creativity and consciousness.
(01:54):
And through curious sunshine, she develops escape rooms, courses, coaching programs thatdevelop people move from stuck to sparked using play as the engine of transformation and
whether it's decoding riddles and blocking old patterns.
She invites you to explore the magic of your mind.
One curious step.
At a time so Sarah, there anything that we need to know that has not been said already?
(02:16):
you covered it all.
That's pretty much it.
Let's do this.
So Sarah, if we were to shadow you for a day or week or whatever you want to go for, whatwould that look like?
What kinds of things are you doing these days?
What's a regular day of anything for you?
It really does depend because my schedule does depend on what projects I have going on, umknow, what events, know, what seasons happening.
(02:43):
But I would say for a regular day, for a day, I usually wake up and do some sort ofmeditation or go to the gym, really get like my mind, my body and my heart connected so I
could move forward with the day with like a clear head.
And then I'll come back and I'll
map out the day, figure out, okay, what do got to do today?
(03:05):
What's the most pressing, you know, high, you know, high ticket issue that I have totackle and then really just strategize for the day.
I'll spend the first half doing the emails and handling more admin work.
And then I usually ideally like to spend the last half of the day doing creative work,rather it's painting, drawing, working on, you know, the conceptions uh of
(03:30):
of a project.
And so I'll kind of sit and work on that and maybe watch like a movie while I do it andallow the creativity to flow.
then for a week.
uh So during the weekdays, that's usually my schedule.
It's not that exciting, know, clients and you know, do some stuff in the evening and onthe weekends is when I'll do events.
(03:51):
So I'll do retreats or
attend a market or do some sort of networking event.
And so the weekends is where I can really be a little extroverted and crawl out of myhermit cave and socialize with folks.
So yeah, that's usually how my, how my weeks, my days and weeks go.
(04:13):
Amazing, amazing.
So Sarah, with all this experience that you've had, all this exciting stuff that you'redoing, I am sure that, you know, things are flowing beautifully.
And that's one of the reasons why we, we, we, we found you.
However, there's also been times when things don't flow as well.
And, and you have at least initially, like in the, word that I'm going to say, you havefails or first attempts in learning.
(04:34):
So we want to go by, you know, one of those times when you're trying something, somethingnew, or maybe you've done it a million times and it just didn't work this time.
We want to be there.
want to live that experience with you and take away any ideas or something that helps usnot experience that pain hopefully in the future.
Yeah, absolutely.
think something that I fail at or like a repeated fail uh is really communicating where mycreative brain space is, especially for a project.
(05:07):
So if I do create an escape room or some kind of gamified experience, uh reallycommunicating what that means to the,
my clients to my customers to the community.
I know that my brain operates a little different and I know the vision in my head.
(05:28):
And so when it comes to like promoting or sharing what I'm doing, I get a lot of like, sowhat is it?
So how do I do this?
So what's going on?
And really taking a step back and saying, okay, how can I communicate this in a way thatis
simple enough for folks to understand.
(05:51):
Because again, I'm working on this project.
So there's this colorful definition in my head.
And I'm like, yes, we're going to be whisked away into this whimsical journey.
And people are like, I don't even know those words that you said.
What are we doing?
And so really rewinding and saying, okay, this is a game.
This is an in-person game.
This is a virtual game.
(06:12):
The goal of the game is to do X, and Z.
So I think
I've had a lot of failures in the marketing aspect.
I'll pour hours and days and months into a project and it'll flop because I promote it ina way that makes sense to me.
And it doesn't make sense to anybody else.
(06:33):
That's a tough one.
It's tough one because you're, you're, you know, it's not just about empathizing.
It's you can empathize and at the same time, you don't think about the way that otherpeople think necessarily and think it through that way because you're not them.
Even though you empathize, there's still all that legwork that you need to go through and,know, testing and many other things that, that go into that for you to be able to reach
(06:54):
that point where your message, the way you say it is, is listened to the way you want itto be heard as well by the other people.
Right.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And I mean, it's, it's a test, know, we're, you know, experimenting and exploring becauseI am creating these games and experiences that are kind of new and unconventional and
(07:15):
people haven't really heard of these things yet.
And so really just like throwing a lot of things at the board to say, okay, what sticks?
What, what do people understand or what gives them the invitation to try this out?
sense and in the exact opposite direction.
So we talked about a fail or a difficulty that you've even had repeatedly as you werediscussing.
(07:37):
What about something that actually really worked for you?
So it could be a proud moment, a project that you want to showcase, like whatever thatwas, we want to live through that experience with you and, and take away any, any of the
expert insights you got from, doing that.
Yeah, I would say I'm going to highlight my most recent game that I released, but I thinka win is my virtual wellness escape room that I just released in June.
(08:08):
And the reason why I call it a success, well, there was actually a few successes thatpushed me into saying, okay, this is the right step.
This is where I need to go.
In the work I do with Curious Sunshine, there's a lot of PowerPoints and talking aboutfacts and scientifics.
(08:29):
And this is how our brain benefits from mindfulness and play.
And it became very corporate educational where it's like, here's the PowerPoint slide.
I'm going to talk at you.
And I hated it because I was like, this isn't playful.
I can't have a play-based business and then have it not be playful in my approach.
(08:49):
And so I was ruminating and thinking about how can I create this fun game experience thatstill talks about how important this stuff is, but it takes users into this experience
instead of just this event where I'm talking at them.
And so I was like, okay, I love doing puzzles.
That is something that is like a weird, a weird thing.
(09:12):
was like, I don't know where to insert this, which is why I love my business.
Cause it gives me a chance to explore and put all these weird.
quirky ideas into practice.
And I was like, all right, let me create this escape room idea.
And I want it to have this wellness component because there's not much out there thatmerges play and wellness together.
(09:35):
And so I was like, okay, let's merge these together.
But I want people to walk away with something.
I don't want them to just play the game and then like, okay, cool.
I played the game, it's done.
But what tools can you?
can you gain from it?
And so I added this goal setting component.
So at the end of it, you will have a goal and some steps that you could accomplish itthrough this playful lens.
(09:57):
And I was like, all right, I don't know how I'm to do this, but it's going to happen.
And I reached out to a few of my play colleagues and one of them was like, oh yeah, do youwant to, that sounds great.
Like develop a training for us as well.
And, and you'd be able to share this with our
with our community over on the West Coast.
(10:18):
And I was like, okay, so this idea isn't bunkers.
This makes sense then.
You want in on this action.
Perfect.
And so really developing this game and having another set of eyes and another brain inthis process really helps because again, I know what I want.
I know I understand the goal.
And so to have someone say, okay, but I don't.
(10:40):
So let's rewind.
Let's simplify.
You know, the people that this is going to be
um, catered towards, they need to understand this too, because the concepts can be deep.
And so really diving into that, um, and making it my own touch.
So using my art, I illustrated the story and, know, I'm, narrating it.
(11:01):
And so it's my own, like, it was my own little project where I can like pour myself intoas well.
Um, and so that is, you know, at the end of it all at the, you know, launching it andhaving it be.
tested, like beta tested and everything.
I got a lot of great feedback of like, yes, this really helps me view my goals in thisplayful lens and really understand myself deeply as well as understand why these goals are
(11:29):
so important.
And it has this like computer game vibe, like how like in elementary school and you playthe computer games and the computer labs.
So it has like this innocence and the simplicity to it, which I love.
And so I think that is.
really big success for me because I want most of my offerings to be a practice of what mybusiness is, which is creating a more playful world.
(11:57):
And it's like, then I need to create more playful experiences.
So that's my latest success that I just think does what it needs to do in communicatingthe importance of Curious Sunshine while also creating a fun and playful um
journey for the people playing it.
(12:18):
Amazing.
there, you mentioned you just finished this one and I love, you know, sort of the approachand how everything sort of lines up in many ways with your approach and everything you've
been thinking.
um Were you to approach a new project for yourself or a client?
Do you have some steps?
Like how does your, maybe your creative process work?
(12:38):
Do you do it somehow or is it just, you know, things just go rising?
What does that look like if somebody came in through the door?
Is it like, well, I'm going to guide you through this or what would you tell them in thatsense?
And what would be the actual, the actual, what does the action happen?
for the game.
Yeah, you're creating the game from scratch, something entirely new.
How do you get from, you know, somebody coming in your door and saying, Oh, I want thisthing.
(13:01):
have this general idea.
And actually then the game being, you know, sort of delivered.
Yes.
So I would say really looking at the problem first or looking at the outcome, reallylooking at like the root, like, are we here?
Why?
Why do we want this?
And really digging deep into the why.
(13:21):
Not just I don't want I want to have fun.
OK, but but why?
And using that curious part of curious sunshine to ask the right questions and dig deep.
And it's like, OK, this is the core reason why we're here.
And then to kind of work backwards and say, okay, well, to solve this problem or toeducate on this thing, here are the steps that we need to do to get there.
(13:45):
Really looking at, you know, the audience, right?
Who is this for?
Is it going to be in person?
Is it virtual?
Is it something that's going to be repeated?
Is it a series?
Can we break it up?
You know, and really looking at the overall, um, scopes, because that is going to shapehow, you know, these experiences in these games are built in this case.
(14:05):
it's very much self-directed.
there was a lot of, you know, creating ample tools and assistance to help folks if theyget stuck in some point.
creating any supplementary PDFs or anything like that is essential.
And so, um and so really diving in to what that looks like and then looking at elements,right?
(14:30):
What's the story?
Is there a story that's involved?
Is it, we the characters is the player, the character, are we following a character?
And then of course, because I, um, I like to use my strengths and so my strengths are art,puzzle storytelling, um, and creating these magical moments in these somewhat mundane and
(14:53):
boring scenarios.
So cool.
How can we add art rather that's through actual visual art illustrations?
Is it through music?
we create, you know, a fun jingle or something to help us remember or retain?
Um, is there fun movements or gestures that we could add in?
And so really looking at these fun toy, like a toy chest, I think.
(15:17):
And I have a, like, I have a toy chest, like a theoretical toy chest of all theseactivities, games and puzzles and techniques that I could use.
And so we look at the toy chest, figuring out, okay, what are all the activities that arepossible?
And how can we add that alongside the story?
And then that's where the kind of experimental exploration comes in of how do we weavethis all together into this fun story?
(15:43):
How do we create this intrigue?
Because I do love the idea of adventure and mystery.
So anything I create is going to have this element of mystery and adventure.
So how do we bring in, you know, come to this mysterious adventure?
And then really guiding people through the story.
so I think creating something that is an experience and brings people in is very importantto me, whether it's putting them into the story or making it an experience where you're
(16:14):
walking through the space and creating this experience for yourself, but really playing onmy strengths because I can only, I think we create best when we're walking with
uh, more authenticity of who we are and how we best create.
So I'm not going to create a competitive sports game.
I'm not a sports person.
(16:35):
It would not, it won't go that well, but I can create things that involve a story andmaybe solving a mystery.
And I feel like that's where we start.
So when working with people, I also make sure to communicate that or it's like, Hey, thisis where I met.
Do you like this?
I'm the right person for you.
Let's figure out, you know, what you want to get out of this, how complicated you wantthis to be.
(16:57):
Um, or if you want it to just be more fun story with some games on the side.
And so then we, yeah, we started building the story and then add the extra bells andwhistles alongside that.
Amazing, amazing.
It's always getting, I love this part of the interview because I get sort of a tour intothe creative brains of so many interesting people.
(17:17):
So, ah love that, love that.
And, you know, from that process, from your experience and everything you've done, theremaybe what we could call a best practice?
No, not in silver bullet because people is like, yeah, what's the one thing?
And there's not the one thing, but something that, you know, makes your projects better oryou were to recommend it to somebody else.
Like, well just...
do this and it's not going be perfect, but it's going to be a little bit better than ifyou don't.
(17:41):
It's a best practice I have.
or that you recommend others like from your experience that you've seen that you've donemany times consciously or maybe subconsciously at this point that you think, you know,
everybody can just do this and their projects will be at least a little bit better thanotherwise.
say that because I'm a play person, like I love studying and learning and spreading theimportance of play.
(18:08):
And so my thing is getting to know how you play as your own individual self.
And there's studies that are out there that talk about play personalities and play styles.
For example, em
You know, some people may be more movement based and they find playfulness in moving theirbody, whether it's through running, dancing, hiking, anything where they're in their body.
(18:34):
That's where they excel.
That's what gets them into this playful state of mind versus some people like art, uhexploring, being social, storytelling, uh being imaginative, dressing up, pretending like
we're in a different world, uh playing with Legos, uh solving puzzles.
doing things like that, or even telling jokes and being a jokester and being silly.
(18:58):
These are all different forms of how we play.
And a lot of us take on multiple of these.
know depending on where I'm at and who I'm with, I could dive into this more jokesterpersonality.
And so really looking at these different ways that we play and really asking ourselves,like, why is it so, like, why do I?
(19:23):
have so much joy when I paint, right?
And asking ourselves and really getting to the core of why these playful activities bringus so much joy.
Because I feel like it's essential to who we are in our spirit, right?
This is our core spirit.
And, you know, getting into this metaphysical wellness spiritual scope of like what weintrinsically find as playful is a key to
(19:53):
our path and our authenticity and what will bring us liberation and help us open up allthese new avenues of how we can approach something.
And so I really dive deep into understanding how you play and then now looking at how youcan kind of bring in these elements into the work that you do.
(20:14):
So if you do like creative or creativity poems, right?
How can you create more em
more storytelling, more poems into the work you do and exploring our imagination.
so play, play personalities.
Yes.
And then my second one is really pushing the boundaries of our imagination.
(20:38):
And, know, living in a society that doesn't want us to imagine, right?
We want to be fed our imagination through social media, through movies, through all thisstuff.
And it's like, yes, this is how we imagine.
It's like, no.
we each individually imagine, use our imagination in different ways.
And I feel like our imagination is a act of divine connection.
(21:02):
It's like, I think of these ideas for a reason, right?
And my ideas are gonna be different than your ideas, which are gonna be different than thenext person's ideas.
And there's something magical and sacred to that.
And so honoring the sacredness of how we play and honoring the sacredness of how weimagine.
and knowing that our imagination is infinite.
There are roles that exist, there are jobs that are there that we just haven't discoveredyet because we don't allow ourselves to imagine outside of the box or know how.
(21:34):
So it's one thing to be like, I'm gonna imagine and think outside of the box, but to knowhow is a completely different ballpark.
And so I think...
also using our imagination in tandem to how we play is going to create these new avenuesof innovation and also create these new neural pathways.
(21:57):
It was just instantly going to change how we think because we're allowing ourselves tomove into this space of pushing, pushing outside of our comfort zone on purpose to create
these new things that we haven't thought of yet.
Very cool.
Plenty of recommendations there Engager, so listen up.
you missed that, you can always go back and listen to it again.
(22:18):
Sarah, now you've heard m many of these questions and seen the vibe of the podcast.
Is there somebody that you would like to hear on the podcast answering these questions?
Maybe somebody who's already inspired you, somebody who you're curious about?
I don't know.
Anybody come to mind?
man, I feel like I know so many people that would do really great on this podcast.
(22:40):
Okay, so I'm going to recommend, okay, and I say this because I consider myself someonewho works in the intersection between spirituality and play.
And I feel like there needs to be more conversations around spirituality and playfulnessand really combining these two together.
And so I have a really great friend.
(23:01):
His name is Dashaun and he really focuses on bringing play into spirituality and how toview life as a game and view spiritual connection as a game.
And so I think he'd be really great because he has this unique take on combining thesespiritual practices with a playful sense and a playful state of mind.
(23:28):
He calls himself the play priest, which I love.
And I highly recommend him because I always love hearing his insight.
And I think that um what he has to offer would be beneficial to really get a full scope ofgames and gamified um approaches to life.
Sounds very, very exciting.
And I had never heard of the play priest.
(23:52):
very, very good to have him on the scope or her.
um Recommended books.
Is there a book that you recommend the Engagers and why would that be?
uh
I'm also a big book person, like looking at my bookshelf right now.
I think a book that I, okay, there's a book that I love right now uh that's called ThePlayful Intelligence.
(24:16):
And I love this book because it talks about, and this is me being nerdy, like I lovelearning about how play can affect our brain and how we think.
and how, and these elements of what it means to have a playful mindset.
And so I love the playful intelligence because it talks about how um play can be used invery real scenarios and how these elements of spontaneity and humor and flexible thinking
(24:49):
play a role in creating more light and levity in these more heavier situations because
I do talk about play and the work I do is all about gamifying life and that doesn't negatethe harsh realities and the challenges and it doesn't invalidate any of the real traumas
(25:16):
and sadness that comes from these very real situations that we find ourselves in in life.
But what it does is...
It says, okay, if we can't necessarily stop suffering because that is part of the humanexperience, these are the ways that we can use a playful mindset to create liberation and
(25:43):
create this levity into our situation so we're not kind of spiraling into this hole ofsadness and darkness.
But how we can use it to not only bring joy to ourselves, but also bring joy to otherpeople in.
the experience and that's a lot of the work I do is cool, let's play, but now let's makesure that we can bring playfulness into when we've had the hardest day of our life or when
(26:09):
we've received devastating news.
How can we now use flexible thinking, spontaneity uh and humor to kind of elevate from thesituation and really learn what we needed to learn and heal how we needed to heal.
I love that book because it just shows these real life scenarios of how people have usedplayfulness in these very real applications.
(26:36):
Very, very cool.
Sounds like a great book for sure.
Sarah, what would you say is your superpower?
That thing that makes you better, at least than most other people.
It doesn't have to be absolutely a hundred percent unique just to you and nobody else inthe world.
That thing that is, you know, your sweet spot.
(26:56):
I would say that my superpower is adding magic to the mundane.
That is my thing.
I call myself the plate alchemist because I'm able to transmute these energies ofstagnancy, boredom, status quo.
(27:17):
And I'm able to kind of look and figure out how to transmute those feelings into somethingplayful, invigorating, lively, bold, exciting.
And so I think that is my superpower is being able to take, you know, things like choresor going to work and commuting and really figuring out, okay, we can't, we can't not do
(27:41):
these things to survive in society.
So how can we make it more playful, more fun?
How can we have this and add these elements of adventure and a journey?
into these things that we have to do every day because I believe that to be playful meansto go against the status quo and to be playful and to gamify life goes against the
(28:09):
traditional outlook on how we're supposed to navigate life.
And so it's a little streak of rebellion to be like, you know, I know we're supposed to dothis because we're adults, but I can actually do it this way too.
And still have in fact,
increase the outcome, increase the productivity, because I'm able to get into this placeof levity instead of this place of obligation.
(28:31):
So I have to do this.
It's like, oh, wait, this is actually kind of exciting now.
I'm looking forward to doing this thing.
And so yeah, being able to add magic to the mundane, I think, is my superpower.
Sounds like a very important one, especially in our line of work.
So Sarah, we come to the difficult question now.
(28:53):
The only one that's maybe difficult, I would say, the podcast.
What is your favorite game?
Can I have two answers?
Let's see.
So I'm a video game person and so I love Nintendo.
I'm a Nintendo girlie.
Always been that way since I was a child.
Like I think there's a photo of me somewhere.
(29:14):
I was like three and I have the old NES controller in my hand.
Of course my cousin's unplugged it and I am holding it upside down.
But the passion is there.
And so love any kind of Super Mario game.
I love
I specifically love Paper Mario because there is this element of mystery and it's like,no, something happened.
(29:38):
We need to figure it out.
And I'm like, yes, I love it.
And so I do love the Paper Mario um series that is on Nintendo consoles.
But I do have a, I do have board games that I like.
So for my board game, I do like Scrabble.
(29:58):
I love Scrabble.
I love being able to play Scrabble because there's it's simple.
I don't have to think too hard about that.
wait, actually scratch that.
My other favorite game.
I do like Scrabble, but my other favorite game is Sudoku.
(30:19):
I like Sudoku and I like this because I do play it more than Scrabble because you needanother person to play Scrabble and I could play Sudoku whenever I want.
And I like Sudoku because it
It gets me out of my mind, especially if I'm ruminating or having anxious thoughts or I'mjust like super stressed.
(30:39):
I'll play Sudoku and it calms my mind down.
I'm able to focus on just the numbers.
um It is my game that I play when I fly because I am not the biggest fan of flying.
And if it gets too, if there's too much chaos, all the people and all the whatever, I justopen up.
my phone and I'll start playing Sudoku and the time goes by fast.
(31:03):
I'm not thinking about X, Y, and Z.
And so I think Sudoku for me is a game where it can be used as a form of uh emotionalmental regulation and to calm me down.
And it is a big example of what I use in my work of like, we play depending on how wefeel.
(31:23):
So I'm not trying to get up and dance.
when I'm feeling, you know, when I'm in the airplane and I'm anxious because we're goingthrough a pocket of turbulence.
No, I need to get out of my head and, you know, stop all the crazy thoughts.
And so it's like, no time to play Sudoku.
Let's just figure out where the two belongs.
Where, what box does the five go?
What box does the seven go?
(31:43):
Right.
And then just really slow it down and, bring it, bring it in.
So yeah, I think Sudoku is my second favorite game.
Well, we have them ordered at least.
We have Paper Mario as the top one and then you have Sudoku.
It's okay to be a video game gal.
That's good.
uh Nowadays, especially having a toddler, we're very aware nowadays of the effects ofscreens early on and all that.
(32:11):
But I think I was five, maybe six when I got my first console.
I was very lucky that my family could get me that.
So I had my own console at five.
So what can I find maybe six?
don't know not entirely sure it was around that time I'm not even considering letting mydaughter have her own screen time by herself when she's that old but but that's because
(32:34):
China times have changed and we have new studies on all that stuff, but
This is true.
Yeah, the internet is very much.
I think it adds a little razzle dazzle to the screen time versus if you just had theconsole, you had like the game to focus on and that's it versus now it's like, I'm going
play this game.
I'm going to go watch this video and I'm going go do this thing over here.
(32:56):
Yeah.
The game has changed.
Yes.
The game has changed.
Sarah, is there, like I'd like to first thank you for spending investing this time with usand the Engagers.
But is there anything else you want to say before we end the interview?
And of course, let us know where we can find out more about your work.
(33:16):
Hmm, is there anything else I can?
Yes.
I mean, I invite people listening the engagers to think about how you play, right and bereally intentional with that.
I meet a lot of folks, especially in networking and I tell them what I do.
And, you know, I don't play or you know, the you know, I only do this form of play.
(33:39):
And then once we get into more conversation, then they're like, wait, I guess I actuallydo play in that way.
And I never actually
realized it.
And so knowing that we actually are playful human beings, that's something that we'rebiologically wired to do throughout our entire lifespan.
So truly examine what these other ways that you may or may not already play and how tobring more intention around it and use it and see it as a form of necessity, just as much
(34:09):
as sleep and food are important to us.
So is play.
so really bringing it into the space of, yes, there are times that we can set aside toplay, but also how to approach life in a more playful way can really elevate our
experience and how we play the game of life.
(34:31):
I think that is- Absolutely.
We definitely can.
And Sarah, where can we find out more about what you do in your work?
Yeah, so check out my website, Curious Sunshine.
There's actually a play alchemy quiz on there that you can take to figure out how youplay.
And there's some tips on how you can use that play style as leverage to your daily life.
(34:52):
Also, my virtual escape room, The Labyrinth of Mystery is also on my Curious Sunshinewebsite.
If you want to play that game, submerge yourself into an experience and then walk out withknowledge on mindfulness techniques.
and also uh some nice steps for how to tackle your goals in this new and playful way.
(35:13):
And then I'm also on Instagram at Playfully Sarah.
And you can also check out my YouTube channel where I dive a little bit more in play.
And that is at Play with Curious Sunshine.
Play with Curious Sunshine on YouTube as well, Engagers.
Plenty of value, lots of stuff that you can check out as well from Sarah.
Beyond this interview, however, Engagers and Sarah, as you know at least, for now and fortoday, it is time to say that it's game over.
(35:40):
Hey Engagers, and thank you for listening to the Professor Game.
uh
I guess and since you're interested in this world of creating motivation, engagement,loyalty, using game inspired solutions, how about you join us on our free online community
at Professor Game on School.
You can find the link right below in the description, but the main thing is to clickthere, join us.
(36:05):
It's a platform called School.
It's for free and you'll find plenty of resources there.
We'll be up to date with everything that we're doing, any opportunities that we might havefor you.
And of course, before you go on to your next mission, before you click continue, pleaseremember to subscribe using your favorite podcast app and listen to the next episode of
Professor Game.
(36:25):
See you there.
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