August 25, 2025 • 36 mins
What if success wasn’t about more, but about enough? In this refreshingly honest conversation, Emma Steenson - former management consultant turned entrepreneur and executive coach - shares how selling a business and reaching financial security forced her to rethink success. If you’ve been running on autopilot - chasing “more” without stopping to ask what you really want - this episode will make you pause and rethink.
Key Takeaways
-
Success is Personal and Evolves Over Time:
Emma’s journey highlights how definitions of success shift—from financial milestones to personal satisfaction and fulfilment. The episode explores letting go of traditional markers in favour of what genuinely matters to you. -
Understanding “Enough”:
The conversation dives into what “enough” means financially and emotionally, the importance of identifying your own baseline, and resisting the endless chase for more. -
Practical Realities of Working for Yourself:
Emma and Anna candidly discuss the gritty side of entrepreneurship—marketing yourself, facing uncertainty, and the often-unseen hard work behind “freedom.” -
Navigating the Noise:
As Emma shares, finding your unique path and not getting distracted by fleeting trends or other people’s blueprints is vital, especially in a rapidly changing business landscape. -
Resilience Through the Tough Times:
The episode closes with advice for those in a low point: keep going, trust the process, and remember that the tough patches make the successes all the sweeter.
If Emma’s story has you questioning what enough really looks like for you - and how to design a business that delivers on that - let’s map it out together. It's time to build a business that funds the life you actually want.
Book your call at onestepoutside.com/call
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Hello everyone and welcome to this month's interview. And I'm pleased to say I'm here
with Emma Steenson. And Emma, as ever, I'm going to throw it straight over
to you and ask you to introduce yourself and what were you doing before and
what are you doing now? Great. Hi, everybody,
I'm Emma Steenson. Before I
was a management consultant in a classic corporate
(00:25):
environment and now I'm an entrepreneur and
executive coach. So I've actually, this is actually my third
iteration, so management consultant,
self employed property developer and also
ran a professional services business
and that was sold, which left me
(00:48):
with sort of an accidental retirement.
And I enjoyed that for a few months
and then promptly decided that I needed a little bit more to
life than just golf and tennis at that stage,
enjoyable as it was. And so I
retrained as an executive coach. I've. I'm actually
(01:11):
studying for a master's in coaching at the minute. And
yeah, that's, those are my iterations so
far. I love that and I especially love how you close that
iterations and so far because in my question, and I think it's a hangover
from when I used to really focus on that moment of quitting your job to
start a business. I always said, what were you doing before? What are you doing
(01:33):
now? But as we know, it's not so black and white, right.
It's many iterations, it's continuously evolving, it's big
pivots, it's small shifts and so on. So I think I'll. I'll
retire that framing and I'll ask a different question
next time. But I suppose with that in mind, find the, the
pivotal moment I am after is, as we've said, the, the change
(01:54):
in how you look at success. So through those, the, the
highlight pivots, I suppose that you had. What was it that led you to
change from the corporate to working for yourself? And then now in the
latest iteration as well. Can you talk us through some of those shifts in
perspective? Sure. So I kind of had the classic,
probably for my era, upbringing in terms of education.
(02:17):
You know, you go to university, you get a good job, it's
all of those sort of expectations. And I mean, I thoroughly embraced
that university, did all the right things, moved
to London straight after university. So I grew up in Ireland, but
I moved, I've lived in London all my adult life.
(02:38):
So, you know, came to work in the city, got the corporate
job and then realised, actually I
was just looked around at what was happening, the men who were
being promoted and the women who weren't. And I was like, okay,
you know, I was ambitious. I wanted to, to do really well. I wanted to
be, I guess at that time financial success to me was kind of like
(03:00):
that was the bottom line that summed up everything. And
yeah, I just kind of figured I could just see what was happening
and I thought I can, you know, I could do this, but I'm probably going
to have to sell my soul. You know,
weekends, travelling, all that sort of stuff. And I was like, actually
(03:20):
I think if I work for myself, I'll probably do just as
well. And I decide how much effort goes
into it. And so. Interesting. Sorry. Before you move to the next one also.
That's because you still have the same definition of success.
Right. But you realise that, hang on. What it takes to get there in this
environment is not something I'm willing to sign up for. So it's more the
(03:42):
how that you're disagreeing with and then you've got the confidence, which is
amazing to say, hey, I can do as well, if not better by myself.
Yeah. And I guess I was fortunate. I come from a background where
most of my family run their own businesses in various guises.
So leaving to run my own business wasn't.
(04:02):
It wasn't even something I gave a second thought to. It was, you know, what
most people who I knew did. So I had no.
And I was already doing property development part time, so it wasn't
such a big leap. But yeah, the, yeah, definitely was
about the path, the how. And
(04:22):
maybe, yes, that I didn't want to play the game to such an extent. I
didn't want to do whatever, which is bizarre to say the 80
hour weeks because actually when I worked for myself, that is what I did do.
But it didn't feel like work when I worked for myself,
you know, it was, it was stuff that I enjoy doing.
(04:43):
So yes, that was, that was the first, that was the first leap. And
so I did two things. Property development was one.
And that's kind of the main, I guess the main source of
income. And the other thing that I was doing day to day
was helping my husband run his business.
(05:04):
So, you know, I come from a management consulting background.
I came in and helped him run his firm which was essentially
professional services and he ended up selling it.
And so he, I like to say he made me redundant
and I found myself in a place where
I didn't need to work anymore. I could have,
(05:27):
you know, been retired and continued playing golf.
The property development was enough to take
care of the financial side of things. But I guess that's where the shift in
definition of success comes from. It's not
just about the money, it's how you spend your days
and you have to do something. I think that
(05:50):
I guess satisfies you. I think that's the best word for me.
So whatever that is, you know, somebody else might have said, well,
that's not enough. I want, you know, it's not enough to have a
Mercedes, I want a Ferrari. And that's great, if that's what you want. But
those kind of goals actually weren't for me in the end.
(06:11):
So growing up in a certain environment, you
have this idea of success equals money, but actually
you have no metric for that. You don't know what that means. And actually I
realised quite quickly I just needed enough money. So,
you know, when you start and you have nothing, then of course you, you think
that, you know, people who are successful have
(06:33):
endless amounts and some people do, of course, but actually for
me it was enough. So I think that was the thing that I
realised that I could slow down then and that
success for me was doing stuff that I enjoyed doing.
So this is really interesting and I have this debate with these big
influencer solopreneurs on LinkedIn all the time. I say debate, they never respond to me,
(06:57):
but I make a comment always. But there are certain solopreneurs who always
share a philosophy I'm very much aligned with about
redefining success. It's not about the money, etc, etc, but my question to them, and
now, because I have you, I can ask you is this, do you
have to first earn the money to then be able to say that?
Because for those who are on the other side of that, you know, I've seen
(07:18):
many are struggling. It's often a creative, you see that kind of
stereotype or coaches, and we care so much and we want to help.
We don't charge enough and then we're not earning money and we say, oh, it
doesn't matter because we're doing important work, but it, but it does. So,
yeah, you know, is it too soon to say money doesn't matter when you're not
earning it? Do we need to first do the hustle, get to the money and
then we can redefine what success looks like to something more meaningful?
(07:42):
Yeah, I think it is a critical one. It's that you, you
can't say it until you've done it because you don't have the experience.
I think for me it's the definition of enough is understanding what
that is for you. And yes, if you don't have enough
money to pay the bills, then,
yeah, absolutely. Like, that's, that's a hard thing about.
(08:05):
You can't just say then, oh, it's only about doing good, because clearly
that doesn't pay the rent. But there's, I guess,
somewhere in between, isn't there? Where actually a lot of people,
what I have seen in my circles and the people that I
say meet through business is
people who, I want to use the word treadmill, they
(08:28):
kind of. They embark on the journey without really questioning
how fast or how far they want to go and they just keep going
and they have no idea if what they've achieved is enough. They just keep
going, like, with no question. Whereas for me,
maybe I was fortunate to have the opportunity to kind of step out and kind
of go, actually, I have enough, I don't need to
(08:51):
keep earning more. That isn't what's going to satisfy
me now. But it's that whole kind of. But the
research, isn't it, that money doesn't matter after a certain
point. But yes, before,
whatever. Is it 70 or 80k? Something like that? Yes, it does matter.
(09:11):
So, yeah, I've heard that number two, $75,000. But I think it depends where you
live and, you know, how many kids in private school you have. And so, yes,
you're going from path, you know, but definitely, I think that's an interesting
nuance and enoughness. Being enough is such an important
question and it's hard to know what that is. I'm working for yourself especially.
It's more tied. Right. I could work a bit later this evening. And
(09:34):
it's not like I'm working for some soulless entity. I'm working for myself. And that
could mean that my kids and I can go on a nicer holiday, you know,
so it's harder to draw that line. And
of course, you see, and I. It's often in private equity and these consultants, which
I'm sure you're familiar with working, oh, it's just one more cycle and then
I'll have another female in the bank and, you know, and then I'll be safe.
(09:55):
And I just wonder, you know, will you then be. And it's, it's very
simplistic, but, you know, estranged from your partner, your kids will be
grown up, you'll have a heart attack because you've been working so hard and stressing
and so on. So, I mean, yeah, I hear. See you nodding. So what are
your thoughts on that? Yeah, no, that for me is the realisation
as well. So I don't have kids. And I think that's a big kind of
(10:17):
influence in what's enough. Because I think if you have kids, you
always want to do more for them. And private school
and okay, piano lessons and maybe violin lessons as
well. And, and, and who would criticise that? Like, that's you,
you want to give them all the opportunities where it's. I think it's much
easier when it's just you and it ends with you.
(10:39):
There's no kind of saving for the future.
So kind of like I plan it out in a very, you
know, logical way of how much do I need to earn, what does my
lifestyle cost? And you know, fingers crossed, how long will I
live planning for my pension and, and things like
that. But I guess if you have more people to take care of,
(11:01):
then it's, it's never ending. So I, I do see
that other people have maybe more of a challenge than I
in making that decision. And it is personal, right? It's totally
dependent on what your parents situation is, if they're around,
if you need to take care of them, children and so on, extended family,
your own health and so all those things. Right. So that's why it doesn't really
(11:23):
matter when people, I find it funny when people ask, you know, but how much
are you earning? Are you earning, know, lots of money. Working for yourself. It's like,
what does it matter? I could be earning millions. That, that shouldn't make you feel
better because I've been doing this for 12 years and I'm not earning millions. But,
you know, and, and vice versa, if I'm struggling. That doesn't
mean that you'll struggle because you're just, you've got a whole different set of
(11:43):
skills, strengths, experience and so on. So I think we want to have the permission
to be like, oh, it's okay to take a bit of risk because. And that's
why I started this interview series, in fact, is partly to give that
permission of, of it being okay. I'm curious. I suppose you
mentioned, obviously the property, that's something you're continuing to do. So what's the business model?
If you can call it that now from a diverse portfolio perspective. Yeah.
(12:05):
For you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's not
something really I talk about in my coaching, but it's, it's
definitely there in the background, but it's more of.
I hate the word passive. It sounds like you do
nothing. That's not true. It just does. It's Just not a full time job.
(12:26):
So that's. Yeah, that's kind of, that's there. Yeah.
And yeah, yeah, we've got a friend who's
got a passive income from his properties and he's just, he's single, he's
travelling the world happily living his life. So you know, there's definitely some
advantages to that. But I think also just generally the financial piece, I
mean the, the struggling coach I think is quite a common
(12:48):
visual too. And whether it's property or some other source,
often, I mean the, the, the mix that I'm seeing with quite a few of
my clients that we're exploring now is having sort of a fractional role for a
bit of the stability, a bit more of the team and hands on and high
level strategic work and then being able to explore something
that you might be more passionate about or likewise initially in the
(13:08):
transition, being able to do. I mean, for me I did a lot of
the corporate marketing stuff even if I didn't talk about it openly publicly while
I was building up my coaching and the other things and that kind of gave
me that financial stability. I do remember someone who was in my
first book. It was a collection of 50 stories of people who left their
jobs. And when I talked to her, she was so positive and she was moving
(13:29):
to Ibiza and she was going to be a yoga instructor. It was very early
on in my journey too. And when I talked to her a few years ago,
she was so disillusioned by it because she was like, people lie.
None of the people in Ibiza are just teaching yoga. They all have
properties or consulting work or what. You know, she was just, just completely
thrown by the whole thing. Because what we see online isn't
necessarily the reality of what it takes to, to make any kind of business work.
(13:55):
No, absolutely. It like it's so,
yeah, the coaching struggle like, so I often say, like before you become a coach,
you have to be a marketer. If you can't market, then you never get
to be a coach. And it's. But it's the eternal
challenge of any profession in any way.
So the business that my husband had was building surveying and he set that up,
(14:19):
you know, from his bedroom and he had to go out and win business
before he could deliver the services that he wanted to
deliver. So it's, it's not,
it's not an unusual experience, but I think maybe for people who've come
from corporate and who haven't been surrounded by that
business, just business ecosystem. So like I said
(14:43):
earlier, I come From a family background where a lot, you know,
50 of all of my aunts and uncles all have their own businesses, all in
different ways, manufacturing, farming, whatever.
And so I guess I've always had a sense, you know, that kind of learning,
but by osmosis, understanding of what it takes to be
in business and that, you know, different people have very different
(15:06):
businesses in terms of success. And
I think for a lot of people who come from like a corporate
and only have that in their circle, it can be quite a shock to
find out what really it takes and what's really
going on because. Yeah, people don't tell you the full story mostly,
I think, because they just assume that everyone knows what they know and
(15:29):
you don't get that. Yeah, well, it's the other side. Unless you ask and it's
one of those things. No, go ahead. The people don't ask, you
think, or. Yeah, I'm just going to say it's the unknown unknowns,
isn't it, that you don't know to ask. So of course you don't ask. And
people who know presume you know, so they don't tell you.
So it's that sort of. Yeah. How do you find out?
(15:53):
Yeah, how do you know? How do you have your eyes wide open when you
don't even know what you're looking for? So it's definitely a challenge. There's so much
information out there now, right. There's so much knowledge and so in theory it should
be easy to find out. But as you, as you said, if you don't know,
you don't know. And I had again, in the early years especially, and probably still
happening now, quite a few colleagues from corporate and we were in marketing.
(16:13):
It's the other side of the treadmill too, that these projects are coming at you,
that steady flow of work. Oh, I've got another meeting to go to. But
when you're suddenly working yourself, there are no meetings unless you book that meeting, right?
There's no work that's landing your place, which might seem fin fun in the short
term. In the longer term that means that you're not making any money.
And so, yes, quite a few colleagues in those early days would quit,
(16:35):
start their business very enthusiastically, have this one idea and
then very quickly realise that that particular idea didn't work.
And then rather than continuing to iterate and learn and so on, they sort of
jumped back to what they felt was comfortable or we
make the mistake of thinking or behaving like we did in corporate. So,
oh, I've got a Big budget, we have celebrities and whole teams supporting us.
(16:57):
Very, very different to Sor Scrappy. Just me
trying to book calls and post and be a social media manager and accountant.
All these things. Right. It's totally different world and it's totally doable. But as you
say, without knowing. Yeah, all of that. And even for any, even for me that
sounds very humble brag. But I come from a marketing background
and I thought I know how to build business and market. But I mean marketing
(17:19):
isn't even the same as sales, let alone the difference between
marketing yourself and marketing a product with the T is so
on. Right. It's just a total wake up call that I've had relatively recently
even because a lot of the early years were quite naturally flowing but
the market is just so cluttered now and it's, it's more challenging than it was
even for me in the end. Yeah. So these are hard lessons to learn, but
(17:40):
important ones. Yeah, I
think so. Yeah.
And you're in terms of building your brand and now in this new world, I
know you're doing your masters, obviously we're speaking and we met via a speaking
group. So how are you looking at that in terms of now taking on
this new mantle of building your brand within the executive coaching
(18:02):
space and the new business arena?
Yeah, well, I guess, I mean it feels to me, I guess because
I don't know any different. It's back to the same point that I'm kind of
moving down the traditional route for.
Yeah. Coaches of any flavour is to build your
personal brand. You know, you're working with people mostly one
(18:25):
on one. Certainly I am anyway, I just coach one on one. I don't do
any kind of group or team coaching
and so I guess it lends itself. Well,
people need to get to know you, they want to be comfortable working with you.
But at the same time, like you say, like it's a very crowded space
(18:47):
and things are changing so quickly at the
minute. It's kind of hard to almost to know what's going on. And so you
have to, I guess you have to have a lot of strength in your,
in your plan, in your conviction of like you and what you want to do
because otherwise I just find that you just get blown off course. Like everybody's got
a slightly different suggestion and that might work for
(19:09):
them. But I kind of, I kind of had came up with this analogy recently
that, that someone else has a cake.
Right. And you're like, oh, I need a cake. But actually
you don't have the same oven. You don't have the same ingredients. They're kind of
the same, but it's not exactly. And so for you to think that you
will make exactly what they make, like, you know, it just
(19:32):
can't happen because you're not them. You know, you don't have, you know, just
whatever. Every person is slightly different. So.
But I think a lot of us, it's that kind of reverse engineering. You see
somebody do something, you think, oh, that must work, and you go, yeah, it does,
and it works for that person. But you have to figure out what works for
you. And that can be hard to figure
(19:53):
that out and work out where that's going. So that's definitely a
challenge, I would say, at the moment in the marketplace.
Yeah. And so important. And that's again, sort of coming back to
redefining success from a big picture, but even in the day to day. And it's
to do with. And I love the cake analogy. Gotta always love a cake
metaphor. Yes. In terms of, you know,
(20:16):
your particular set of circumstances, family, whatever that looks
like, you know, the income, aspirations you have and current
obligations you have your strength, skills,
personality. Do you like to go on podcasts and big stages?
Rah, rah. Do you prefer the quiet one to one? You know, there's all these
different nuances. And you're right, unfortunately, it makes it harder in a way because
(20:37):
there's no blueprint to follow exactly. It just means you need to be clear on
what you want. Then once you know what you want, then you can go to
the experts who can then teach you that particular path, if once
you've decided that is the right path for you. But I think often we get
caught and waste a lot of money on, oh, this person has
said that we've got to do the webinars and the funnels and the
(20:58):
big group, high ticket, whatever it is. And as you say, it's just,
again, we learn the hard way maybe, unfortunately, that that's not what's going to work
for us. Exactly. So there's the not. It
doesn't work for you. But then there's also, you know, the game is changing all
the time. And it might have worked for you two years ago,
but it's not working now. But people are still selling off the back of, you
(21:20):
know, giving advice off the back of something that worked a while ago. And I
think that that's something, I think that's really present
really at this moment in time is that, you know,
I don't know, just the whole shift in everything in the world and how things
are working. It's. Yeah, I think it's. You kind
of have to. Well, for me, I just think, you know, just hold on. It's
(21:43):
that kind of, kind of stick to your guns and try
not to get distracted. But that's, that's. It's more easily
said than done. Yeah, but that, but I haven't thought about that. That's a very
important nuance and it reminds me of when I was doing digital marketing in
corporate and our company was very much. We always had to share the.
It was called marketing mix modelling and ROI studies. And so. And I said for
(22:05):
digital, we don't have that because it's new. If we now wait until
we've done two years of studies on whether Facebook, you know, it's going
to be too late. And funny enough, you think as an entrepreneur, solopreneur, coach,
whatever we are, we're much more agile than that. But you're right, our entire
ecosystem around us is by definition anchored in what was
working. And obviously AI has come onto the stage,
(22:27):
exponential explosion, just in the last year.
Every day it's new stuff, right? And then, yeah, LinkedIn, as we know,
algorithm changes all the time and so on and so on. So, yeah,
unfortunately, the things that worked certainly five years ago for me
as well, don't work anymore. What helps you, as you said, it's easier said
than done. But what helps you stick to your guns? Like, what are you trying
(22:49):
to do, to hold on to. No, but this is me, I'm doing my Masters,
I'm doing this. This is what I'm going to do. Yeah. Any tips? Yeah,
any tips? Not, Not. I don't think
they're really tips. I think it's just the classic. You have to
really know yourself and notice when you're kind of being
distracted, whatever that is for you, if it's a change
(23:12):
in mood or a change in tactics or whatever,
and take, take time out, go for your walk,
do whatever it is that you do, dance, whatever the
suggestion is, and just kind of remind yourself what you're in it for.
And I, quite a lot think about
kind of boundaries and what I'm prepared to, almost to trade.
(23:36):
So I came to coaching because I, I
wanted to spend my time, which I had a lot of doing this thing because
I wanted to be challenged and I wanted to do
something useful and I wanted to add value to, to someone else.
And it's that sort of. If I trade my
(23:57):
time now, tinkering around on LinkedIn, am I doing any of the things
that I set out to do. No, actually. Well, I might be
challenged occasionally, but it's
not, it's not quite the same thing. So.
So that for me is like to really
interrogate on a daily basis, if that's what it takes. Because quite
(24:19):
often I speak for myself. You
can kind of, you know, it's ups and downs in every
entrepreneur's journey and sometimes
when you're in the kind of, you know, the challenging phases, you have to
remind yourself daily. It's not just a, a one off pep talk and up you
go again. It's actually for a couple of days and maybe even a week. You
(24:39):
kind of say, no, keep going, keep going.
And yeah, it's, yeah, nothing. There's nothing
exciting. There's no, I don't feel there's a secret magic
wand to it. It's the, I think that's when people talk about, you know,
the, the grind of being an entrepreneur,
(24:59):
it's just keep doing the hard things
and. Yeah. And then gradually you, you know, you
get to the top of the hill or you, you know, you turn the corner
and actually, okay, you've got through that and, you know, the next
phase is, is rewarding and is challenging and is all the things that you set
out to get. Yeah, it's not very sexy, is it?
(25:21):
Just showing up every day, having the discipline, doing the boring stuff. But that is
unfortunately what makes the needle. It makes you think. Again, it comes back to
the distraction of the experts. Instagram, for example, which
is, I mean, yeah, a whole other world from even than LinkedIn.
I realised recently. And maybe it's really obvious, but of course the
expert on Instagram who is teaching you how to be an expert on
(25:44):
Instagram, you know that, that, of course, that's just sort of smoke and mirrors and
that's. You're losing sight of why you're there. Because we're there
certainly immediately to sell, but. But then the bigger picture is we want to make
an impact. Are we doing that by doing these fancy
edits and reels and there's so and so. No, of course not. And it sounds
obvious when you put it that way. And yet I, and clients around me have
(26:05):
spent, you know, months trying to. But only. If only we could go viral with
this, then we can. But we're just getting distracted by
the metrics. We're thinking that the aim is to be successful at
Instagram, but no, of course that's not it at all. That might be a tool
to get to where we want to be, but it's not the the end
in itself. Yeah. But it kind of. It comes back around to what
(26:27):
you referred to earlier. The. If only
the next time I'll just do this more. It's that
kind of. I can't remember the term for the kind of. I'll be happy
when. Yes. I'll be satisfied when. It's always
pushing it out rather than kind of going, what have I got right now. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, absolutely. And right now, then, what does.
(26:49):
Is there a typical day for you? Are you very focused now, as you said,
on your. Your marketing. Marketing. Your Masters, which starts with the same two
letters. That's why I get confused. What. Yeah, walk us through
sort of what your work life looks like at the moment.
So, yes, a lot of focus on my Masters at the
moment. I'm kind of in what I call assignment season.
(27:13):
I've, you know, just recently submitted one. I've got another deadline coming
up. So actually quite a lot of my time is dedicated to
researching and reading and then
whatever. Formulating my response to whatever the assignment of the. The
of the month is so daily,
there's not a lot of routine. I kind of
(27:36):
move more in a maybe quarterly
cycle. So I spend time between Ireland and
London. And so that for me is kind of my rhythm. Come to
Ireland every. Every couple of months and spend a few weeks here, you know, just
catching up with family and spending time with friends and things
like that. So that, that for me, that's my rhythm
(27:58):
of cycle of, you know, what happens
other than that. Day to day. I try to
try to split my time, but as deadlines loom, then
that kind of goes out the window and I end up focusing quite a lot
on. On the. On the Master's deadline.
So, yeah, that's. Yeah, I think that's good. Sometimes it is an
(28:21):
externally imposed deadline. Right. But that makes you like that sort of has
to focus the mind. And I've got a colleague who's finishing her book script
and of course that then becomes the thing you have to do. Yes. All the
other stuff is important, but. Sorry, I got distracted. A spider
just landed on my desk. So they living in nature.
That's what it does. An end of that.
(28:44):
What does it. What does it offer? It's tiny, but I don't. I'm fine with
spiders, but I don't really want it on me. It looks very. Yeah, very.
I was going to say poisonous, but I'm thinking not in the uk but it
looks strange. So I'm going to just keep my distance. Okay. Just
direction. But a perfect moment. To start wrapping up. So I
suppose, given everything we've said, if you think back to some
(29:08):
of those tougher moments that you've had, and I mean the grind, perhaps,
but those moments when you doubted yourself, if someone is in that moment right now
listening, is there anything you wish someone had told you or anything you could
offer as a final parting insight
to someone who's at that moment still now?
(29:28):
I think, I think you just get through it. I think that's the only. I
mean, I've never had any
advice or any kind of insight that kind of makes it better,
that when I encounter it again,
that it improves. But I think it's just to know that you do get through
it and.
(29:50):
Yeah, and that's just part of it, that I think this is what I'd found,
particularly in that period when I was, you know,
in my semi retirement, that you need.
You need the stimulation so that the downtime
feels restful, you know, if you're not challenged,
you know, everything's kind of monotone and that to have
(30:13):
the highs, you need the lows, that actually the hard bits are what make
the winning or the succeeding so
satisfying. And I think that, yeah, it's
hard when you're in it, but it is necessary. And
if that wasn't present, you wouldn't have the
corresponding up. So try to take the long
(30:36):
view, I think. But sometimes it is just getting through it.
Yeah, just keep showing up. But I love that remembering that actually it's going to
be so much more worthwhile because it's difficult now. If someone just handed it to
you, it would be empty and you'd. Yeah. Just need to move on to the
next thing. It's the journey, not the destination. But it's true. There's always truth
in cliches. Exactly. Yeah. And it's funny,
(30:58):
like, I recently, last year I did
Hyrux. It's one of those kind of fad things.
If you know what it is, you know what it is. But when I was
doing the training, that's what I was thinking about. Like, it was hard
and it was horrible and I was thinking, why am I doing this?
But I all. I almost knew as well that
(31:20):
that bit of horrible is what was going to make the finishing
it worthwhile. And so actually
that did keep me going, you know, days when I was in the gym doing
ridiculous things that, you know, getting off your
treadmill to do some burpees and everybody looking at you like, you're absolutely
bonkers. But, yeah, it kind of, yeah, that
(31:42):
did get me through Was, I guess, eye on the prize, isn't
it? That's the phrase. To know what you're working towards
helps you through the. Yeah. The tougher times. I have to ask about
Hierox. It was on my list briefly and I sort of, I've forgotten all about
it. So you've now nudged me to, to try to have a go at that.
But it reminds me, I was with my mum at the weekend and one of
(32:03):
our favourite. It sounds very elite. Elite. But one of our favourite
Shakespearean quotes is come what? Come a time and the hour
run through the roughest day. And it's like whatever, you know, time passes. However
awful it is, time will pass. But what I say is, yes, but you can't
just sit down in the middle of your marathon and then time will pass and
tada, you get your medal. You have to go through the hardship to get to
(32:23):
the finishing line to get to that thing. Right. So it's, you know,
four hours running London marathon, let alone longer than that
is different to four hours that I've just had this morning working from home,
which has gone like that. So it's an interesting. Yeah.
Thing how time and space. We need to ask Einstein how that works, how it's
relative depending on what you're doing. But yeah, but anyway, that's. That's
(32:46):
for another philosophical podcast. As someone who understands science much better than
I do. But yeah, there is. Yeah,
there is science about that. About how time moves slower when you're working out.
Yeah. Apparently been proven. Oh, when you're working. Oh, that's interesting, isn't it?
Okay, there you go. But it's worth it. We hit. That's what I'm hearing. So
that. No, I think that's important. And whether it's a physical or a mental
(33:08):
challenge or something, remembering why you're doing it and what you're going to get when
you're done. Yeah. Important. And I think that's
something as well with having something outside business that you can kind of
draw strength from. So
doing the training for that, I kind of realise, okay, this is the grind bit.
And I can see that sometimes in my work, like doing assignments and reading, when
(33:30):
I really. I'm not in the right frame of mind to do it. And I
just think, oh, this is the grind. This is just the one foot in front
of the next bit and just keep going and you will
get through it. And yeah, it is true. So I think having.
Having a parallel that you can maybe draw inspiration or
motivation from can be helpful. Yeah. Yes. And
(33:52):
also to. To distract you in a good way. Right. So you don't get too
caught up. If work is your only identity, then that become. But if you've got
to go do your treadmill burpees, then that helps you to
where you've got a hand in your dissertation. Yeah. Emma, thank you so
much for so generously sharing your time and your story. Where can we
find you and follow along for the next stage?
(34:15):
Oh, you can find me. I have my website,
emmasteenson.com that's where I hang out.
You can also Find me on LinkedIn. There are not too many Emma
Steensons around, so you can, you can search and
you'll find me there.
Perfect. We'll be sure to link in the show notes as well. You're lucky with
(34:35):
your personal brand that you've got a distinctive name. But thank you so much. Emma.
Best of luck with the Masters. Best of luck with this next phase as well
and thank you again for your time and sharing your story. Thank
you. Lovely to chat. Thanks.
But thanks so much.
Hello everyone and welcome to this month's interview. And I'm pleased to say I'm here
with Emma Steenson. And Emma, as ever, I'm going to throw it straight over
to you and ask you to introduce yourself and what were you doing before and
what are you doing now? Great. Hi, everybody,
I'm Emma Steenson. Before I
was a management consultant in a classic corporate
(00:25):
environment and now I'm an entrepreneur and
executive coach. So I've actually, this is actually my third
iteration, so management consultant,
self employed property developer and also
ran a professional services business
and that was sold, which left me
(00:48):
with sort of an accidental retirement.
And I enjoyed that for a few months
and then promptly decided that I needed a little bit more to
life than just golf and tennis at that stage,
enjoyable as it was. And so I
retrained as an executive coach. I've. I'm actually
(01:11):
studying for a master's in coaching at the minute. And
yeah, that's, those are my iterations so
far. I love that and I especially love how you close that
iterations and so far because in my question, and I think it's a hangover
from when I used to really focus on that moment of quitting your job to
start a business. I always said, what were you doing before? What are you doing
(01:33):
now? But as we know, it's not so black and white, right.
It's many iterations, it's continuously evolving, it's big
pivots, it's small shifts and so on. So I think I'll. I'll
retire that framing and I'll ask a different question
next time. But I suppose with that in mind, find the, the
pivotal moment I am after is, as we've said, the, the change
(01:54):
in how you look at success. So through those, the, the
highlight pivots, I suppose that you had. What was it that led you to
change from the corporate to working for yourself? And then now in the
latest iteration as well. Can you talk us through some of those shifts in
perspective? Sure. So I kind of had the classic,
probably for my era, upbringing in terms of education.
(02:17):
You know, you go to university, you get a good job, it's
all of those sort of expectations. And I mean, I thoroughly embraced
that university, did all the right things, moved
to London straight after university. So I grew up in Ireland, but
I moved, I've lived in London all my adult life.
(02:38):
So, you know, came to work in the city, got the corporate
job and then realised, actually I
was just looked around at what was happening, the men who were
being promoted and the women who weren't. And I was like, okay,
you know, I was ambitious. I wanted to, to do really well. I wanted to
be, I guess at that time financial success to me was kind of like
(03:00):
that was the bottom line that summed up everything. And
yeah, I just kind of figured I could just see what was happening
and I thought I can, you know, I could do this, but I'm probably going
to have to sell my soul. You know,
weekends, travelling, all that sort of stuff. And I was like, actually
(03:20):
I think if I work for myself, I'll probably do just as
well. And I decide how much effort goes
into it. And so. Interesting. Sorry. Before you move to the next one also.
That's because you still have the same definition of success.
Right. But you realise that, hang on. What it takes to get there in this
environment is not something I'm willing to sign up for. So it's more the
(03:42):
how that you're disagreeing with and then you've got the confidence, which is
amazing to say, hey, I can do as well, if not better by myself.
Yeah. And I guess I was fortunate. I come from a background where
most of my family run their own businesses in various guises.
So leaving to run my own business wasn't.
(04:02):
It wasn't even something I gave a second thought to. It was, you know, what
most people who I knew did. So I had no.
And I was already doing property development part time, so it wasn't
such a big leap. But yeah, the, yeah, definitely was
about the path, the how. And
(04:22):
maybe, yes, that I didn't want to play the game to such an extent. I
didn't want to do whatever, which is bizarre to say the 80
hour weeks because actually when I worked for myself, that is what I did do.
But it didn't feel like work when I worked for myself,
you know, it was, it was stuff that I enjoy doing.
(04:43):
So yes, that was, that was the first, that was the first leap. And
so I did two things. Property development was one.
And that's kind of the main, I guess the main source of
income. And the other thing that I was doing day to day
was helping my husband run his business.
(05:04):
So, you know, I come from a management consulting background.
I came in and helped him run his firm which was essentially
professional services and he ended up selling it.
And so he, I like to say he made me redundant
and I found myself in a place where
I didn't need to work anymore. I could have,
(05:27):
you know, been retired and continued playing golf.
The property development was enough to take
care of the financial side of things. But I guess that's where the shift in
definition of success comes from. It's not
just about the money, it's how you spend your days
and you have to do something. I think that
(05:50):
I guess satisfies you. I think that's the best word for me.
So whatever that is, you know, somebody else might have said, well,
that's not enough. I want, you know, it's not enough to have a
Mercedes, I want a Ferrari. And that's great, if that's what you want. But
those kind of goals actually weren't for me in the end.
(06:11):
So growing up in a certain environment, you
have this idea of success equals money, but actually
you have no metric for that. You don't know what that means. And actually I
realised quite quickly I just needed enough money. So,
you know, when you start and you have nothing, then of course you, you think
that, you know, people who are successful have
(06:33):
endless amounts and some people do, of course, but actually for
me it was enough. So I think that was the thing that I
realised that I could slow down then and that
success for me was doing stuff that I enjoyed doing.
So this is really interesting and I have this debate with these big
influencer solopreneurs on LinkedIn all the time. I say debate, they never respond to me,
(06:57):
but I make a comment always. But there are certain solopreneurs who always
share a philosophy I'm very much aligned with about
redefining success. It's not about the money, etc, etc, but my question to them, and
now, because I have you, I can ask you is this, do you
have to first earn the money to then be able to say that?
Because for those who are on the other side of that, you know, I've seen
(07:18):
many are struggling. It's often a creative, you see that kind of
stereotype or coaches, and we care so much and we want to help.
We don't charge enough and then we're not earning money and we say, oh, it
doesn't matter because we're doing important work, but it, but it does. So,
yeah, you know, is it too soon to say money doesn't matter when you're not
earning it? Do we need to first do the hustle, get to the money and
then we can redefine what success looks like to something more meaningful?
(07:42):
Yeah, I think it is a critical one. It's that you, you
can't say it until you've done it because you don't have the experience.
I think for me it's the definition of enough is understanding what
that is for you. And yes, if you don't have enough
money to pay the bills, then,
yeah, absolutely. Like, that's, that's a hard thing about.
(08:05):
You can't just say then, oh, it's only about doing good, because clearly
that doesn't pay the rent. But there's, I guess,
somewhere in between, isn't there? Where actually a lot of people,
what I have seen in my circles and the people that I
say meet through business is
people who, I want to use the word treadmill, they
(08:28):
kind of. They embark on the journey without really questioning
how fast or how far they want to go and they just keep going
and they have no idea if what they've achieved is enough. They just keep
going, like, with no question. Whereas for me,
maybe I was fortunate to have the opportunity to kind of step out and kind
of go, actually, I have enough, I don't need to
(08:51):
keep earning more. That isn't what's going to satisfy
me now. But it's that whole kind of. But the
research, isn't it, that money doesn't matter after a certain
point. But yes, before,
whatever. Is it 70 or 80k? Something like that? Yes, it does matter.
(09:11):
So, yeah, I've heard that number two, $75,000. But I think it depends where you
live and, you know, how many kids in private school you have. And so, yes,
you're going from path, you know, but definitely, I think that's an interesting
nuance and enoughness. Being enough is such an important
question and it's hard to know what that is. I'm working for yourself especially.
It's more tied. Right. I could work a bit later this evening. And
(09:34):
it's not like I'm working for some soulless entity. I'm working for myself. And that
could mean that my kids and I can go on a nicer holiday, you know,
so it's harder to draw that line. And
of course, you see, and I. It's often in private equity and these consultants, which
I'm sure you're familiar with working, oh, it's just one more cycle and then
I'll have another female in the bank and, you know, and then I'll be safe.
(09:55):
And I just wonder, you know, will you then be. And it's, it's very
simplistic, but, you know, estranged from your partner, your kids will be
grown up, you'll have a heart attack because you've been working so hard and stressing
and so on. So, I mean, yeah, I hear. See you nodding. So what are
your thoughts on that? Yeah, no, that for me is the realisation
as well. So I don't have kids. And I think that's a big kind of
(10:17):
influence in what's enough. Because I think if you have kids, you
always want to do more for them. And private school
and okay, piano lessons and maybe violin lessons as
well. And, and, and who would criticise that? Like, that's you,
you want to give them all the opportunities where it's. I think it's much
easier when it's just you and it ends with you.
(10:39):
There's no kind of saving for the future.
So kind of like I plan it out in a very, you
know, logical way of how much do I need to earn, what does my
lifestyle cost? And you know, fingers crossed, how long will I
live planning for my pension and, and things like
that. But I guess if you have more people to take care of,
(11:01):
then it's, it's never ending. So I, I do see
that other people have maybe more of a challenge than I
in making that decision. And it is personal, right? It's totally
dependent on what your parents situation is, if they're around,
if you need to take care of them, children and so on, extended family,
your own health and so all those things. Right. So that's why it doesn't really
(11:23):
matter when people, I find it funny when people ask, you know, but how much
are you earning? Are you earning, know, lots of money. Working for yourself. It's like,
what does it matter? I could be earning millions. That, that shouldn't make you feel
better because I've been doing this for 12 years and I'm not earning millions. But,
you know, and, and vice versa, if I'm struggling. That doesn't
mean that you'll struggle because you're just, you've got a whole different set of
(11:43):
skills, strengths, experience and so on. So I think we want to have the permission
to be like, oh, it's okay to take a bit of risk because. And that's
why I started this interview series, in fact, is partly to give that
permission of, of it being okay. I'm curious. I suppose you
mentioned, obviously the property, that's something you're continuing to do. So what's the business model?
If you can call it that now from a diverse portfolio perspective. Yeah.
(12:05):
For you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's not
something really I talk about in my coaching, but it's, it's
definitely there in the background, but it's more of.
I hate the word passive. It sounds like you do
nothing. That's not true. It just does. It's Just not a full time job.
(12:26):
So that's. Yeah, that's kind of, that's there. Yeah.
And yeah, yeah, we've got a friend who's
got a passive income from his properties and he's just, he's single, he's
travelling the world happily living his life. So you know, there's definitely some
advantages to that. But I think also just generally the financial piece, I
mean the, the struggling coach I think is quite a common
(12:48):
visual too. And whether it's property or some other source,
often, I mean the, the, the mix that I'm seeing with quite a few of
my clients that we're exploring now is having sort of a fractional role for a
bit of the stability, a bit more of the team and hands on and high
level strategic work and then being able to explore something
that you might be more passionate about or likewise initially in the
(13:08):
transition, being able to do. I mean, for me I did a lot of
the corporate marketing stuff even if I didn't talk about it openly publicly while
I was building up my coaching and the other things and that kind of gave
me that financial stability. I do remember someone who was in my
first book. It was a collection of 50 stories of people who left their
jobs. And when I talked to her, she was so positive and she was moving
(13:29):
to Ibiza and she was going to be a yoga instructor. It was very early
on in my journey too. And when I talked to her a few years ago,
she was so disillusioned by it because she was like, people lie.
None of the people in Ibiza are just teaching yoga. They all have
properties or consulting work or what. You know, she was just, just completely
thrown by the whole thing. Because what we see online isn't
necessarily the reality of what it takes to, to make any kind of business work.
(13:55):
No, absolutely. It like it's so,
yeah, the coaching struggle like, so I often say, like before you become a coach,
you have to be a marketer. If you can't market, then you never get
to be a coach. And it's. But it's the eternal
challenge of any profession in any way.
So the business that my husband had was building surveying and he set that up,
(14:19):
you know, from his bedroom and he had to go out and win business
before he could deliver the services that he wanted to
deliver. So it's, it's not,
it's not an unusual experience, but I think maybe for people who've come
from corporate and who haven't been surrounded by that
business, just business ecosystem. So like I said
(14:43):
earlier, I come From a family background where a lot, you know,
50 of all of my aunts and uncles all have their own businesses, all in
different ways, manufacturing, farming, whatever.
And so I guess I've always had a sense, you know, that kind of learning,
but by osmosis, understanding of what it takes to be
in business and that, you know, different people have very different
(15:06):
businesses in terms of success. And
I think for a lot of people who come from like a corporate
and only have that in their circle, it can be quite a shock to
find out what really it takes and what's really
going on because. Yeah, people don't tell you the full story mostly,
I think, because they just assume that everyone knows what they know and
(15:29):
you don't get that. Yeah, well, it's the other side. Unless you ask and it's
one of those things. No, go ahead. The people don't ask, you
think, or. Yeah, I'm just going to say it's the unknown unknowns,
isn't it, that you don't know to ask. So of course you don't ask. And
people who know presume you know, so they don't tell you.
So it's that sort of. Yeah. How do you find out?
(15:53):
Yeah, how do you know? How do you have your eyes wide open when you
don't even know what you're looking for? So it's definitely a challenge. There's so much
information out there now, right. There's so much knowledge and so in theory it should
be easy to find out. But as you, as you said, if you don't know,
you don't know. And I had again, in the early years especially, and probably still
happening now, quite a few colleagues from corporate and we were in marketing.
(16:13):
It's the other side of the treadmill too, that these projects are coming at you,
that steady flow of work. Oh, I've got another meeting to go to. But
when you're suddenly working yourself, there are no meetings unless you book that meeting, right?
There's no work that's landing your place, which might seem fin fun in the short
term. In the longer term that means that you're not making any money.
And so, yes, quite a few colleagues in those early days would quit,
(16:35):
start their business very enthusiastically, have this one idea and
then very quickly realise that that particular idea didn't work.
And then rather than continuing to iterate and learn and so on, they sort of
jumped back to what they felt was comfortable or we
make the mistake of thinking or behaving like we did in corporate. So,
oh, I've got a Big budget, we have celebrities and whole teams supporting us.
(16:57):
Very, very different to Sor Scrappy. Just me
trying to book calls and post and be a social media manager and accountant.
All these things. Right. It's totally different world and it's totally doable. But as you
say, without knowing. Yeah, all of that. And even for any, even for me that
sounds very humble brag. But I come from a marketing background
and I thought I know how to build business and market. But I mean marketing
(17:19):
isn't even the same as sales, let alone the difference between
marketing yourself and marketing a product with the T is so
on. Right. It's just a total wake up call that I've had relatively recently
even because a lot of the early years were quite naturally flowing but
the market is just so cluttered now and it's, it's more challenging than it was
even for me in the end. Yeah. So these are hard lessons to learn, but
(17:40):
important ones. Yeah, I
think so. Yeah.
And you're in terms of building your brand and now in this new world, I
know you're doing your masters, obviously we're speaking and we met via a speaking
group. So how are you looking at that in terms of now taking on
this new mantle of building your brand within the executive coaching
(18:02):
space and the new business arena?
Yeah, well, I guess, I mean it feels to me, I guess because
I don't know any different. It's back to the same point that I'm kind of
moving down the traditional route for.
Yeah. Coaches of any flavour is to build your
personal brand. You know, you're working with people mostly one
(18:25):
on one. Certainly I am anyway, I just coach one on one. I don't do
any kind of group or team coaching
and so I guess it lends itself. Well,
people need to get to know you, they want to be comfortable working with you.
But at the same time, like you say, like it's a very crowded space
(18:47):
and things are changing so quickly at the
minute. It's kind of hard to almost to know what's going on. And so you
have to, I guess you have to have a lot of strength in your,
in your plan, in your conviction of like you and what you want to do
because otherwise I just find that you just get blown off course. Like everybody's got
a slightly different suggestion and that might work for
(19:09):
them. But I kind of, I kind of had came up with this analogy recently
that, that someone else has a cake.
Right. And you're like, oh, I need a cake. But actually
you don't have the same oven. You don't have the same ingredients. They're kind of
the same, but it's not exactly. And so for you to think that you
will make exactly what they make, like, you know, it just
(19:32):
can't happen because you're not them. You know, you don't have, you know, just
whatever. Every person is slightly different. So.
But I think a lot of us, it's that kind of reverse engineering. You see
somebody do something, you think, oh, that must work, and you go, yeah, it does,
and it works for that person. But you have to figure out what works for
you. And that can be hard to figure
(19:53):
that out and work out where that's going. So that's definitely a
challenge, I would say, at the moment in the marketplace.
Yeah. And so important. And that's again, sort of coming back to
redefining success from a big picture, but even in the day to day. And it's
to do with. And I love the cake analogy. Gotta always love a cake
metaphor. Yes. In terms of, you know,
(20:16):
your particular set of circumstances, family, whatever that looks
like, you know, the income, aspirations you have and current
obligations you have your strength, skills,
personality. Do you like to go on podcasts and big stages?
Rah, rah. Do you prefer the quiet one to one? You know, there's all these
different nuances. And you're right, unfortunately, it makes it harder in a way because
(20:37):
there's no blueprint to follow exactly. It just means you need to be clear on
what you want. Then once you know what you want, then you can go to
the experts who can then teach you that particular path, if once
you've decided that is the right path for you. But I think often we get
caught and waste a lot of money on, oh, this person has
said that we've got to do the webinars and the funnels and the
(20:58):
big group, high ticket, whatever it is. And as you say, it's just,
again, we learn the hard way maybe, unfortunately, that that's not what's going to work
for us. Exactly. So there's the not. It
doesn't work for you. But then there's also, you know, the game is changing all
the time. And it might have worked for you two years ago,
but it's not working now. But people are still selling off the back of, you
(21:20):
know, giving advice off the back of something that worked a while ago. And I
think that that's something, I think that's really present
really at this moment in time is that, you know,
I don't know, just the whole shift in everything in the world and how things
are working. It's. Yeah, I think it's. You kind
of have to. Well, for me, I just think, you know, just hold on. It's
(21:43):
that kind of, kind of stick to your guns and try
not to get distracted. But that's, that's. It's more easily
said than done. Yeah, but that, but I haven't thought about that. That's a very
important nuance and it reminds me of when I was doing digital marketing in
corporate and our company was very much. We always had to share the.
It was called marketing mix modelling and ROI studies. And so. And I said for
(22:05):
digital, we don't have that because it's new. If we now wait until
we've done two years of studies on whether Facebook, you know, it's going
to be too late. And funny enough, you think as an entrepreneur, solopreneur, coach,
whatever we are, we're much more agile than that. But you're right, our entire
ecosystem around us is by definition anchored in what was
working. And obviously AI has come onto the stage,
(22:27):
exponential explosion, just in the last year.
Every day it's new stuff, right? And then, yeah, LinkedIn, as we know,
algorithm changes all the time and so on and so on. So, yeah,
unfortunately, the things that worked certainly five years ago for me
as well, don't work anymore. What helps you, as you said, it's easier said
than done. But what helps you stick to your guns? Like, what are you trying
(22:49):
to do, to hold on to. No, but this is me, I'm doing my Masters,
I'm doing this. This is what I'm going to do. Yeah. Any tips? Yeah,
any tips? Not, Not. I don't think
they're really tips. I think it's just the classic. You have to
really know yourself and notice when you're kind of being
distracted, whatever that is for you, if it's a change
(23:12):
in mood or a change in tactics or whatever,
and take, take time out, go for your walk,
do whatever it is that you do, dance, whatever the
suggestion is, and just kind of remind yourself what you're in it for.
And I, quite a lot think about
kind of boundaries and what I'm prepared to, almost to trade.
(23:36):
So I came to coaching because I, I
wanted to spend my time, which I had a lot of doing this thing because
I wanted to be challenged and I wanted to do
something useful and I wanted to add value to, to someone else.
And it's that sort of. If I trade my
(23:57):
time now, tinkering around on LinkedIn, am I doing any of the things
that I set out to do. No, actually. Well, I might be
challenged occasionally, but it's
not, it's not quite the same thing. So.
So that for me is like to really
interrogate on a daily basis, if that's what it takes. Because quite
(24:19):
often I speak for myself. You
can kind of, you know, it's ups and downs in every
entrepreneur's journey and sometimes
when you're in the kind of, you know, the challenging phases, you have to
remind yourself daily. It's not just a, a one off pep talk and up you
go again. It's actually for a couple of days and maybe even a week. You
(24:39):
kind of say, no, keep going, keep going.
And yeah, it's, yeah, nothing. There's nothing
exciting. There's no, I don't feel there's a secret magic
wand to it. It's the, I think that's when people talk about, you know,
the, the grind of being an entrepreneur,
(24:59):
it's just keep doing the hard things
and. Yeah. And then gradually you, you know, you
get to the top of the hill or you, you know, you turn the corner
and actually, okay, you've got through that and, you know, the next
phase is, is rewarding and is challenging and is all the things that you set
out to get. Yeah, it's not very sexy, is it?
(25:21):
Just showing up every day, having the discipline, doing the boring stuff. But that is
unfortunately what makes the needle. It makes you think. Again, it comes back to
the distraction of the experts. Instagram, for example, which
is, I mean, yeah, a whole other world from even than LinkedIn.
I realised recently. And maybe it's really obvious, but of course the
expert on Instagram who is teaching you how to be an expert on
(25:44):
Instagram, you know that, that, of course, that's just sort of smoke and mirrors and
that's. You're losing sight of why you're there. Because we're there
certainly immediately to sell, but. But then the bigger picture is we want to make
an impact. Are we doing that by doing these fancy
edits and reels and there's so and so. No, of course not. And it sounds
obvious when you put it that way. And yet I, and clients around me have
(26:05):
spent, you know, months trying to. But only. If only we could go viral with
this, then we can. But we're just getting distracted by
the metrics. We're thinking that the aim is to be successful at
Instagram, but no, of course that's not it at all. That might be a tool
to get to where we want to be, but it's not the the end
in itself. Yeah. But it kind of. It comes back around to what
(26:27):
you referred to earlier. The. If only
the next time I'll just do this more. It's that
kind of. I can't remember the term for the kind of. I'll be happy
when. Yes. I'll be satisfied when. It's always
pushing it out rather than kind of going, what have I got right now. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, absolutely. And right now, then, what does.
(26:49):
Is there a typical day for you? Are you very focused now, as you said,
on your. Your marketing. Marketing. Your Masters, which starts with the same two
letters. That's why I get confused. What. Yeah, walk us through
sort of what your work life looks like at the moment.
So, yes, a lot of focus on my Masters at the
moment. I'm kind of in what I call assignment season.
(27:13):
I've, you know, just recently submitted one. I've got another deadline coming
up. So actually quite a lot of my time is dedicated to
researching and reading and then
whatever. Formulating my response to whatever the assignment of the. The
of the month is so daily,
there's not a lot of routine. I kind of
(27:36):
move more in a maybe quarterly
cycle. So I spend time between Ireland and
London. And so that for me is kind of my rhythm. Come to
Ireland every. Every couple of months and spend a few weeks here, you know, just
catching up with family and spending time with friends and things
like that. So that, that for me, that's my rhythm
(27:58):
of cycle of, you know, what happens
other than that. Day to day. I try to
try to split my time, but as deadlines loom, then
that kind of goes out the window and I end up focusing quite a lot
on. On the. On the Master's deadline.
So, yeah, that's. Yeah, I think that's good. Sometimes it is an
(28:21):
externally imposed deadline. Right. But that makes you like that sort of has
to focus the mind. And I've got a colleague who's finishing her book script
and of course that then becomes the thing you have to do. Yes. All the
other stuff is important, but. Sorry, I got distracted. A spider
just landed on my desk. So they living in nature.
That's what it does. An end of that.
(28:44):
What does it. What does it offer? It's tiny, but I don't. I'm fine with
spiders, but I don't really want it on me. It looks very. Yeah, very.
I was going to say poisonous, but I'm thinking not in the uk but it
looks strange. So I'm going to just keep my distance. Okay. Just
direction. But a perfect moment. To start wrapping up. So I
suppose, given everything we've said, if you think back to some
(29:08):
of those tougher moments that you've had, and I mean the grind, perhaps,
but those moments when you doubted yourself, if someone is in that moment right now
listening, is there anything you wish someone had told you or anything you could
offer as a final parting insight
to someone who's at that moment still now?
(29:28):
I think, I think you just get through it. I think that's the only. I
mean, I've never had any
advice or any kind of insight that kind of makes it better,
that when I encounter it again,
that it improves. But I think it's just to know that you do get through
it and.
(29:50):
Yeah, and that's just part of it, that I think this is what I'd found,
particularly in that period when I was, you know,
in my semi retirement, that you need.
You need the stimulation so that the downtime
feels restful, you know, if you're not challenged,
you know, everything's kind of monotone and that to have
(30:13):
the highs, you need the lows, that actually the hard bits are what make
the winning or the succeeding so
satisfying. And I think that, yeah, it's
hard when you're in it, but it is necessary. And
if that wasn't present, you wouldn't have the
corresponding up. So try to take the long
(30:36):
view, I think. But sometimes it is just getting through it.
Yeah, just keep showing up. But I love that remembering that actually it's going to
be so much more worthwhile because it's difficult now. If someone just handed it to
you, it would be empty and you'd. Yeah. Just need to move on to the
next thing. It's the journey, not the destination. But it's true. There's always truth
in cliches. Exactly. Yeah. And it's funny,
(30:58):
like, I recently, last year I did
Hyrux. It's one of those kind of fad things.
If you know what it is, you know what it is. But when I was
doing the training, that's what I was thinking about. Like, it was hard
and it was horrible and I was thinking, why am I doing this?
But I all. I almost knew as well that
(31:20):
that bit of horrible is what was going to make the finishing
it worthwhile. And so actually
that did keep me going, you know, days when I was in the gym doing
ridiculous things that, you know, getting off your
treadmill to do some burpees and everybody looking at you like, you're absolutely
bonkers. But, yeah, it kind of, yeah, that
(31:42):
did get me through Was, I guess, eye on the prize, isn't
it? That's the phrase. To know what you're working towards
helps you through the. Yeah. The tougher times. I have to ask about
Hierox. It was on my list briefly and I sort of, I've forgotten all about
it. So you've now nudged me to, to try to have a go at that.
But it reminds me, I was with my mum at the weekend and one of
(32:03):
our favourite. It sounds very elite. Elite. But one of our favourite
Shakespearean quotes is come what? Come a time and the hour
run through the roughest day. And it's like whatever, you know, time passes. However
awful it is, time will pass. But what I say is, yes, but you can't
just sit down in the middle of your marathon and then time will pass and
tada, you get your medal. You have to go through the hardship to get to
(32:23):
the finishing line to get to that thing. Right. So it's, you know,
four hours running London marathon, let alone longer than that
is different to four hours that I've just had this morning working from home,
which has gone like that. So it's an interesting. Yeah.
Thing how time and space. We need to ask Einstein how that works, how it's
relative depending on what you're doing. But yeah, but anyway, that's. That's
(32:46):
for another philosophical podcast. As someone who understands science much better than
I do. But yeah, there is. Yeah,
there is science about that. About how time moves slower when you're working out.
Yeah. Apparently been proven. Oh, when you're working. Oh, that's interesting, isn't it?
Okay, there you go. But it's worth it. We hit. That's what I'm hearing. So
that. No, I think that's important. And whether it's a physical or a mental
(33:08):
challenge or something, remembering why you're doing it and what you're going to get when
you're done. Yeah. Important. And I think that's
something as well with having something outside business that you can kind of
draw strength from. So
doing the training for that, I kind of realise, okay, this is the grind bit.
And I can see that sometimes in my work, like doing assignments and reading, when
(33:30):
I really. I'm not in the right frame of mind to do it. And I
just think, oh, this is the grind. This is just the one foot in front
of the next bit and just keep going and you will
get through it. And yeah, it is true. So I think having.
Having a parallel that you can maybe draw inspiration or
motivation from can be helpful. Yeah. Yes. And
(33:52):
also to. To distract you in a good way. Right. So you don't get too
caught up. If work is your only identity, then that become. But if you've got
to go do your treadmill burpees, then that helps you to
where you've got a hand in your dissertation. Yeah. Emma, thank you so
much for so generously sharing your time and your story. Where can we
find you and follow along for the next stage?
(34:15):
Oh, you can find me. I have my website,
emmasteenson.com that's where I hang out.
You can also Find me on LinkedIn. There are not too many Emma
Steensons around, so you can, you can search and
you'll find me there.
Perfect. We'll be sure to link in the show notes as well. You're lucky with
(34:35):
your personal brand that you've got a distinctive name. But thank you so much. Emma.
Best of luck with the Masters. Best of luck with this next phase as well
and thank you again for your time and sharing your story. Thank
you. Lovely to chat. Thanks.
But thanks so much.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.