August 29, 2024 • 41 mins
Ever wonder if success in landscaping requires more than just hard work and a green thumb? Tune in to this riveting episode of Roots of Success, where host Tommy Cole sits down with industry leader Kyle Cahill. Discover how Kyle’s innovative approach to a four-day work week and the 980 work schedule not only prevents burnout but also creates a thriving, motivated team. Learn about the game-changing model of invoicing on actuals, plus how handling client requests in a better way could revolutionize your business.
THE BIG IDEA:
Emphasizing Balance
KEY MOMENTS:
05:39 Learning from experience, growing a successful business.
07:38 Enhanced service model increased growth and satisfaction.
12:15 Explaining services, building relationships, and setting expectations.
14:19 Build trust with clients, learn from mistakes.
21:31 Managing work-life integration in a busy industry.
28:29 Finding the right property involved size and location.
31:47 Developing a sustainable campus with native plants, leadership.
38:15 Embrace integrating culture, avoiding burnout, and learning.
QUESTIONS WE ANSWER
What are the benefits of a four-day work week?
How to prevent employee burnout in the landscaping industry?
What is the 980 work schedule and how does it work?
How to create a sustainable work environment in a service-based business?
What is the time and materials (T&M) billing model in service industries?
How to effectively manage client expectations in landscaping services?
How to implement a detailed client intake process for better service alignment?
FOR SHOW NOTES AND MORE, GO TO:
https://mcfarlinstanford.com/podcast/ep-036-building-sustainable-teams-and-culture-with-kyle-cahill/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The Roots of Success podcast is
for the landscape professional
who's looking to up their game.
We've got a brain trust of experts to
help you nurture the roots of a successful
business and grow to the next level.
This is The Roots of Success.
Welcome to another great episode
of Roots of Success Podcast.
And I'm your host, Tommy Cole.
We have it.
(00:20):
Awesome guest today.
I've got my good friend, Kyle
Cahill from Houston, Texas.
How are you Kyle?
I'm doing great, Tommy.
I am really excited too,
like, got butterflies.
I'm ready to go, man.
Who knew we'd be here 15 years later,
just on a show talking about shop
and business and life, like what the.
(00:43):
I would have never imagined
this in a million years.
Kyle and I go way back,
back all the way to 2009.
We worked for the same company in
Dallas and, we shared an office,
the size of, I was like 10 by
10, the size of a small bedroom
with about,
I think the back of our chairs
just used to hit each other
every time we tried to stand up.
(01:04):
Yep.
Oh, I was like, wow this
is going to be interesting.
I remember I was the, we're
both project managers.
I was the construction kind
of project manager that
handled mostly subcontractors.
Yeah.
And, you know, medium to large scale
jobs and you handled all the crews
and the planting project manager side.
(01:24):
And we work hand in hand on hundreds
of projects for a long, long time.
And so.
I don't know, we considered ourselves
probably the best dynamic duo
there was in Dallas, Fort Worth.
I'm, I'm going to put that up there.
I will second that.
We were, we were a hell of a team.
Yeah, we were awesome.
we had a lot of fun doing it.
We learned a lot doing it.
(01:45):
So that was a
Well, I would say we screwed up a lot.
I mean, we screwed up a ton and we
were like, we got to remember this.
We got to add it to our process
and system and we just got
better and better over the years.
So Kyle is coming from Houston, Texas.
No harm, no foul about the Astros
and those crazy maroon things
that are in college station.
(02:06):
You know, beside all of that, he's a
really good dude, good father, a good
husband, and a really good business owner.
That's why he's on here today.
So, so Kyle, tell us about
growing co company out of Houston.
Well, Tommy, I again, am so excited
to be here and talk with you and talk
(02:26):
about Grown Company and what we've
done and share that with everybody.
So Grown Company, we started in
December of 2016, about two weeks
before my first daughter was born.
Wow.
So my wife and I just decided,
Hey, now's the time let's do it.
Rip the bandaid off and let's go.
Yes.
So we are a high end residential
(02:48):
design build and maintenance
firm located within Houston and
primarily operate only in Houston.
Although we do have design projects
as far away as Santa Fe, New Mexico.
but a lot of our work in house stays
relatively close to the Houston area.
So that's our primary focus.
One thing unique about our firm is
(03:10):
that we operate primarily on a time
and materials basis on, primarily
most scopes of work that we do.
So I'm excited to talk more
about that and explore that.
This is great.
You know, it's, it's funny how we
all work together for a number of
years and we learn and learn and
learn, and then all of a sudden you
pull the trigger and say, I think
I'm going to start this thing myself,
(03:31):
Hmm.
it always sounds easy at first because
you're like, I can do this, but
when it's your own dime and nickel.
It's a little bit different story.
So you know, I'm sure there were
some hard days getting started with
you and probably a crew so to speak.
Right.
Tell us about just getting the
(03:53):
business started before we get into
that TNM thing I really want to
Yeah.
we worked on some pretty high profile
clients, homes and commercial projects.
And so, you know, I went from
multimillion dollar projects and,
and managing a department that was
north of 15 million in revenue.
To back to the basics to myself
(04:15):
and, and going back to all of a
sudden, I'm the one who's contracting
out 10 flats of seasonal color.
I'm installing them myself.
I really had that opportunity with in
that first year of starting growing
company of what I like to always refer
back to as getting back to the basics.
So learn, getting myself, get
my hands dirty being loyal to
(04:37):
my soil really, building myself
back up from the fundamentals.
And that's, that's really
how Grown Company was born.
It was born out of just
getting back to the basics.
I worked primarily out of my house and
within my neighborhood and my neighbors.
And I took one project at a time.
did a lot of the, you know,
(04:58):
one man show owner operator.
My wife continued to work.
She's a PA in the emergency room.
So she bankrolled growing company
to make sure that we would stay
financially viable as we learned our
lesson.
her.
Oh,
I mean, she's, she's honestly
the reason why we were able to
stay in business for that first
Yeah,
year to 18 months.
(05:18):
Good.
So Kyle, we're all dying to hear, and
our audience doesn't know much about you.
One of the coolest, amazing things
about Grow Co is you're known as
this guy called the TNM success.
And if nobody knows what that
is, that's time and materials.
Everything you do from a maintenance
perspective is time and materials.
(05:41):
So whatever it takes to do the time and
whatever materials are added, that's
how you do the maintenance services.
That's a lot different than the norm.
100 percent different than the norm.
What made you go into that route?
that's a great question because you
know I had cut my teeth in this business
in the contracting world, right?
You you get a call from a client
(06:02):
they request your services You go
over you give them a proposal and
hey, this is everything that's
going to be in this proposal divided
by 12 Here's your monthly charge.
And that's how I just assumed that work
was done and that's when I first started
growing company how I did it myself You
You know, I took what I had learned and
applied it to how I was going to do.
(06:23):
After a year in business with Grown
Company, I had the opportunity to, I was
growing and I needed a place to, park my
truck and trailer other than my driveway.
Cause my neighbors were like,
you gotta get out of here.
And so I was fortunate enough to be
introduced to two gentlemen, Robert
Glauser and Danny McNair, who owned a
residential landscape firm in Houston
(06:45):
since 1991 called Glauser McNair.
And they were looking to retire.
They wanted to sell the business.
I wasn't sure if that was something
I wanted to do to acquire a business.
I just needed to get out of my
driveway to appease my neighbors.
So I was introduced to them.
And I always like to say we moved
in together before we got married.
(07:08):
And
So and
Okay.
they, they were a smaller firm, you know,
anywhere from a million and a half to two
and a half million kind of fluctuating.
And, you know, they were towards
the end of their careers and they
had gotten past the point of, Oh,
I need the big revenue numbers.
They wanted to do high quality
(07:29):
work and they wanted to be paid.
So when I like to say I moved in
before we got married, I moved in in.
of 2017 and we finalized
acquisition in June of 2018.
So, at that point I acquired a book of
business that was used to this model.
They were used to the
T and M aspect of it.
(07:50):
So I took that and I saw
what that really meant.
It allowed the crews to deliver a
high detail, high touch service.
It allowed the managers to say
yes more than, well, let me
get you some, a change order.
It, it really allowed my team to say
(08:10):
yes, as opposed to, well, let me see.
and so I understood that, you know, I had
to learn this model and I had to learn how
to best implement it because I understood
that it could be a barrier for growth.
And I made the conscious decision that,
you know what, I really don't care
if it's a barrier for growth because
I want to be paid fairly for the
(08:33):
services that we're providing.
And then in turn, pay my team really
well and provide benefits and a work
environment that they want to be at.
And so, contrary to popular belief,
I mean, we have grown substantially
within that model and the, the
slogan I always tell clients is
like, Hey, this is not a checkbook.
Okay.
I'm going to give you a price and
(08:55):
I'm going to give you a budget.
We're going to operate on
budgets and invoice on actuals.
All right.
So I can't go to a scheduling board and,
you know, with our software and schedule
out these visits with no hours to it.
No, our production team needs
to know, Hey, you have two
hours at the Smith residence.
You have one hour at
the Johnson residence.
We have to schedule it that way.
(09:16):
But if that client comes out and says,
Hey, Kyle, I definitely, I want you
guys to spend another 30 minutes in the
backyard where we had this situation.
Well, that's 30 minutes times three guys.
You've got another hour and a half.
Hey, my guys can say yes, as opposed
to we can only be here for two hours.
So we're going to have to go.
So we set all that up on the front end.
(09:38):
We let the client know what our hourly
rates are, how we're going to bill it.
And what we've started doing and it's kind
of it's been fun is that we get to show
our clients how we are, over delivering
for them where we're actually coming in
under budget and showing them, Hey, this
is what we told you it was going to cost.
This is actually what it's costing.
And because if it rains
all week, guess what?
You don't get charged
for that visit that week.
(09:58):
Yeah.
So I always have found it and I
found it to be a win win for both
the contractor and the client.
And the client because if they ask us
for anything more, hey, it's understood
you're going to get charged for it Just
like if you're at a fancy hotel if you
call them and say hey, you know what?
I want a bottle of champagne The
Ritz Carlton is going to send
it to your room and it's just
(10:19):
understood you're paying for that,
right?
let me see if I can build
a change order for that.
Yeah, so we've taken that
from the the maintenance side.
That's how we run the design
department That's how we run
our construction department.
And so Yeah, we we again I always say
hey it may at some point be a barrier for
growth We haven't reached that ceiling
(10:40):
yet, and we've had great responses
from from our clients With it so
So I got some questions.
You said something fascinating.
Operate on budgets and what?
on actuals
Okay, I love it.
So here's my question.
What's the client's response
when you, when you say this?
This is not the normal.
(11:01):
Are they really intrigued by it?
Do they question it?
sure
like, wow, I've never heard that.
Explain more or see how things go.
Yeah, every single thing you just said.
I've had that response.
Is your team prepared for that
sort of elevator pitch type?
right.
Yeah.
So that's, that's another aspect, right?
(11:21):
Is a lot of the people that we're
recruiting and bringing on have not
operated within this model as well.
So it's training them.
And in fact, again, it's empowering them
to, really satisfy their client's needs
and go above and beyond because there's,
there's not that barrier, you know,
we have that framework to work within.
We are going to be our client's
(11:43):
biggest advocate and they're trusting
us to take care of their landscape.
And if that means they need a service
to treat a fungus, that's going
to go ahead and wipe out their St.
Augustine lawn.
We're going to take care of it.
And we're going to tell you in
our contract beforehand, like
we're going to take care of this.
You know, otherwise, if I've got to call
you, we're talking about replacement.
(12:03):
That's a lot more expensive.
So we have had all those
responses from clients on me.
A lot of it has been a, well,
let's see how that goes.
And, it's been very,
very successful so far.
I love it.
I love it.
So if a client calls in or referral
comes in, there's probably.
I don't know what you guys call it,
but maybe an intake form or a question
or something to say, is this our ideal
(12:25):
client that we always talk about?
Tell me about that.
I'm sure you have something similar to
Yeah, absolutely.
So anytime that we have an inquiry
come across typically it's referral or
just seeing our work It always starts
off with that phone call because what
we want to explain to them is who we
are, what kind of a service that we
provide, and if you're going to find
(12:47):
value in the service that we provide.
If you are looking for that,
flat rate every month, and
somebody to mo blow and come in.
That's, that's not going to be for us.
If you want that relationship, if you
want that high touch when you find value
in that and you find value in a team
that knows what they're doing, that shows
(13:07):
up when they say they're going to show
up, that's important to you, then, then
we're going to be the firm, you know,
to continue this conversation with.
And then at, at that same conversation,
we talk about the TNM model, what
that looks like and what that means.
Because at no time do we want to surprise
a client when we put a contract down
and say, Oh, by the way, it's tfm.
(13:28):
We never want to surprise them
so true.
So also now we talked about the front
end, the expectation, maintaining the
property, the install, but I know people
are asking, but what about the back end?
Like who's collecting all the data to
invoice it quick enough to keep cash
flow and all that, is that an intense
(13:50):
process or you guys have that sort
of dialed in that's got to be decent
Yeah, we've got,
curve.
we've gotten better.
It is still something.
So when we went to six years ago, when I
was implementing an operation software,
I really had to find something that
was not going to let anything hide.
Right?
So what I mean by that
(14:11):
is you can't bury costs.
Like if we purchased something,
it's the software is telling
you where does this cost go?
Where does this cost go?
Where do these man hours go?
We have learned a lot over the years
and we've made a lot of mistakes and
we've made those mistakes to where
Hey, we we tell the client up front.
This is tnm But also right if you don't
communicate with the client that you are
(14:32):
going over budget Well, you got to put
yourself in the client's shoes You need
to prepare clients that you're spending
their money as opposed to just on the back
end saying well We told you it was tnm
No, we have to have a trust relationship
with our clients So we have learned the
hard way and we have implemented systems
and processes going forward where it's
(14:53):
like hey team We know this is new for
everybody but just because we say it's
tnn doesn't mean you can just do whatever
it hasn't been terrible But we've
we've gotten our butts kicked a couple
times and had to eat crow and say
hey We're going to stand behind this.
We should have told you we'll
do better next time and then
we learn from it and move on.
(15:13):
Communication is key in any business.
Yes,
Especially landscaping and service
industry, especially time and materials,
because you can't use TNM as an excuse
no.
to go spend money.
So now you're more cautious to the client.
Cause I go, yeah, we've
got to communicate.
Cause I know what's going to happen.
If I just get an invoice and send
(15:34):
it, they're going to ask questions.
Correct.
you're really having to be methodical
and think about that and communicate
it because you know, it's going
to come with the, you don't
Well, and Tommy, I think one important
thing to keep in mind too is that really
in a contracted business too, right?
Say you had two hours
at the Smith residence.
Well, if, if you're on the high
end, high touch client, if they
ask you to spend 30 more minutes,
(15:57):
typically that garden manager is
going to accommodate a client request.
How many times does that 30 minutes
get added to that work team doesn't it
doesn't and so, Really what I find is
that's where I keep saying it's fair to
the client It's fair to the contractor
because we will absolutely do that for
you understand you add time it adds costs.
(16:17):
We're going to build that so it has
helped with communication a ton And
as a matter of fact, it puts the
onus more so on that garden manager
to make sure they are communicating
Yes.
They know, oh, additional
costs are coming.
I better let my client know because at
Grown Company, we will invoice that.
you know, or I'm going to
be asked what happened here.
(16:37):
Yeah.
You got to provide an explanation
love it the next topic Kyle
would love to discuss this is an
interesting one I love it a lot.
I follow you on social media I listen
to you all the time on other you know
Presentations and you've done some other
podcasts that you're a guest on and
I'm watching you behind the scenes as
(16:58):
I do all of my Clients I talk with and
meet with every year and every month
And I also just watch, I watch and
observe what goes on, good, bad, ugly.
And what I've observed over time
with Grow Co is this thing that I'm
going to call it master gardeners.
And I love the fact that you're putting
so much time and effort into this,
(17:19):
because this is essentially a career.
It's not mow and blow as fast
as you can to make a quick buck.
You are literally like professional
organization, no different than
The NFL football team, no different
than a law firm, none of that.
And you're, you're sustainable.
You take your time.
You do the right thing.
You're loyal to your soil.
(17:41):
Explain that am I right on the
right page of where we're going?
Because that's what I see
from the outside looking in.
No, that's a, I'm glad that
that's something you see
because It's working, So the
message is getting across.
We want to be.
The value in hiring a growing
company is our knowledge and our
specialization and our experience.
(18:02):
You know, I consider all of our front
line to be true trades people, right?
They know their craft.
They get on a pair of hedge pruners and
the way that they are shaping a hedge
it's a work of art, you know, and and
as you know Promoting from within and
having that knowledge work its way up into
the management part of the business We
(18:24):
really want people to be, excited about
horticulture and what we do because that's
what our clients are really looking to
us for is really being experts in that.
And the level of gardens and
landscapes that we work in
requires that of us as well.
Now, we don't know everything
and we're learning and that's
why we have continuous education.
(18:46):
And we trained from within, but
that's really important to us.
And it's really, really essential for
your success working here at Grown Company
and the whole, the be loyal to your soil.
You know, that was something
that, we came up with and.
Actually trademarked it
because I loved it so
much,
there you go.
That it worked on a lot of levels, right?
(19:08):
From the sustainable standpoint,
be loyal to your soil.
I mean, a lot of the research, a lot
of the implementations of big, large
landscape projects, it's all about what's
going on in the soil, the microbiology,
having it be alive because you can't,
you, you plant a 1 plant in a 5 hole.
That's the slogan.
That's what we like to say.
(19:30):
So it's from the actual soil, but be loyal
to your soil in terms of our community,
our company, like we're loyal to each
other on the ground that we stand on.
You know, we're loyal
in that respect as well.
So
Well, it's an attraction.
If I'm, if I'm in high school,
looking to get into the landscape
world, I'm attracted to Grow Co
for that reason, because it's
(19:51):
an absolute career to come in.
You can come in from the ground up
and work your way and be very, very,
very trained and mentored along the
way as this is a professional career,
which we should all take that extremely
seriously.
I, I hate the word, you know, slamming
shrubs in the ground and mow and
blow all these terms that are sort of
thrown out there in our, our industry.
(20:12):
And I think what you're doing, and
I know what you're doing is you're,
putting this up on a pedestal.
That's something that you can set
your career on and be there forever.
And so you're attracting
those types of people.
into your organization, which is great.
okay.
Yeah.
this is a weird one.
You ready for this Kyle?
This is a great.
(20:33):
So we're, we're talking about culture
a lot of times and everyone's got
a good, everyone's got a culture.
Period.
End of story.
Just depends on what side of
the spectrum your culture is.
The good, the bad, in
between, I'm not sure.
Depending on the day that I wake up on the
wrong side of the bed, that's our culture.
You made an interesting, announcement
to your team, I think about a
(20:54):
year ago, this time last year,
roughly, and I witnessed it.
And I said, Ooh, that's
an interesting one.
There's this thing called the four
day work week, nine 80 schedule.
Yes.
You got to tell me what your
thoughts behind all this, what is it?
And how was the outcome?
Sure.
So you are correct.
We implemented this about a
(21:15):
year ago and we trialed it.
We told the entire team this 980 schedule.
We're going to try it for three months.
If we see that it is negatively impacting
our ability to generate revenue,
our profitability, just the culture
in general, then it's going away.
(21:36):
But this is important.
And here's why it's important.
Tommy, you know, from our
early days in working in this
industry it can be daunting.
You can burn out.
You've got ups and downs,
especially in construction.
When it's crazy busy, it's crazy busy.
And looking at how the world and people
(21:58):
in general are evolving, I wanted to make
sure that we were staying on the forefront
of that while we were young as a company.
The 980 schedule came out of a
conversation with our leadership
team about trying to address that.
How are we going to address the potential
for team members to be overworked?
How do we create a culture and an
(22:19):
environment where we support the family
and we support the life outside of work?
I don't like the term work life
balance because I don't necessarily
buy into the the meaning behind that.
I always like to say work life
integration because when you
are working you are also living.
If your wife calls you, you're going
to call her back on a workday, right?
(22:40):
We aren't just shutting
it off and turning it on.
We are integrating our work in our life.
That's just, if we got to be
honest with ourselves about that.
it.
And then, so the 980 schedule
came from actually our controller.
Her husband works at Shelly and
they run off a 980 schedule.
So I was like, tell me more.
So 980 stands for over a nine day period.
(23:01):
So a typical work week, Monday
through Friday, five days.
So over nine days, so
one week is five days.
The next week is four.
You work 80 hours.
So that gives you one
day off every other week.
We have decided to give
Monday off every other week.
So we have two teams.
So there was, we had to really
figure this out because we're
(23:22):
a high end residential company.
We need to be able to our clients.
We can't just say, Hey, we're closed.
Right?
Okay.
We're not there to help you.
We have to always have somebody on call.
So we have two teams, blue and white.
That's our company colors.
We have a team blue.
We have a team white.
Your counterpart.
Is off on that day.
So for example, you know, you can't
have all garden managers off We have
(23:43):
four garden managers two off two on
on those mondays that we can handle
calls and get responses So what that
equates to was an additional 26 days off
okay.
per client.
This is middle management You know
salaried employees that get this an
additional 26 days off per year Almost
a month, no cut in pay and establishing
(24:06):
that three day or that, yeah, that
three day weekend every other week.
For me personally, I partake in
this, it has been incredible.
I mean, heck, my birthday was on Monday
and it was.
birthday, by the way.
Thank you.
It was my day off.
So I was like, Hey, this is great.
I'm not working
on my brain.
year, your day off will
be on Tuesdays, right?
(24:27):
Like,
Yeah.
you'll switch it.
But it has been extremely, extremely
impactful and I'm, I'm excited as we
continue to develop it because I do feel
like it's an additional recruiting tool
that we offer that we are understanding
that we are ahead of the curve.
That we know how to
manage it in this respect.
And so it, it's been successful so far.
(24:49):
You know, it's, it's, we're about to
wrap up year one, and I, I feel like
the, the feedback we've gotten from
the team has been, has been wonderful.
So that's how that came about, and,
and I, I'm excited to continue on.
You know, burnout is
real in this industry.
It is so real.
We're compared to construction.
(25:10):
Landscape, I've always said this for
years, is really one of the toughest
professions to get in because it
demands so much 12 months a year.
Yep.
There's really no off season.
You know, it's every day, and you're
battling weather you know, training,
the labor force, materials, sensitive
materials, deliveries, everything you
(25:30):
could ever imagine is thrown in your face.
Other trades.
And it's just like, we keep going
and going and going, but the beat
down is pretty real in our industry.
And there's a high turnover ratio in that.
So I love, I love the fact that
you've figured out a way to say,
here's a few extra days off.
Here's a good amount of extra days
off, but make sure you put in the work.
(25:53):
Right.
So you're not sacrificing your
client's time and the business's time.
You're still putting it, but
you're making sure that you're,
you're forcing people take the PTO
correct, and I'll tell you one unintended
consequence that we've learned from this
that I was not planning on Was when you
(26:13):
have your Monday off, you don't want
to be bothered So you are preparing
and you are communicating so that you
are not bothered So I find that people
are actually the team members are
actually communicating and preparing
better So that they don't have to bother
their counterpart when they're off
Yes.
know, it's kind of like
you scratch my back.
(26:33):
I'll scratch yours.
Yes.
if anything comes up I'm going to
take care of it for you, but make sure
you've got all your stuff in order
So i'm not picking up the pieces.
Yeah.
Very team oriented.
Right.
So if someone was to leave.
You could observe that or handle the
issues, but you could also get it from
a different manager's perspective.
But if you had to go meet or resolve
(26:53):
a problem, you know, Hey, I had to
deal with this, you know, this is
what I saw on the property and this is
what I'm seeing in the communication.
You can kind of feed off of each other.
Very team oriented dynamic
in that, that aspect.
Love it.
So let me ask you this,
what happens to PTO?
so that remains the same
Okay,
that that all remains the same
so our pto, program So this
(27:16):
yes, you know you reference pto.
This is not considered pto.
This is just schedule
it's very interesting.
Is anyone else doing the same thing?
Is that
I mean other company.
I don't know.
Shale?
Yeah, I don't know about landscape
firms and i'm sure there are I just,
you know, I don't know of them.
I think maybe in the South, because
(27:38):
to your point, like in landscaping
in the South, it doesn't stop.
Never.
no snow season.
It's just, there's hurricane season.
But, so I don't know if I'm in the South.
Good stuff.
Good stuff.
All right, next big topic.
This thing called a facility.
Everyone's doing it.
(27:59):
Oh my gosh.
I have heard it.
I'm gonna build a new facility, Tommy.
I'm cash strapped.
What do I do?
Is it a two bay?
Is it a three bay?
Do I cover the vehicles?
Do I not?
How much office space, it's too small,
it's too big, drainage, I mean, it is like
Mm hmm.
And we're not even, we're
(28:19):
not even good at that.
We good.
We're good at doing the landscape,
let alone being the owner of a
general contractor building, you
know, something that you can envision.
It's hard.
Tell me about what you've done there.
I think there's some good
attributes to that very sustainable,
yeah,
eco friendly type building, but
tell me some of the lessons learned
(28:41):
so our audience can understand and
maybe get a few nuggets out of this.
right.
So, I mean, first things
first is the location.
So, I spent about two years finding
the right piece of property.
Because it had to be of size, I had to
have a certain size, had to be affordable,
and it had to have the right location
in terms of getting to our job site.
(29:01):
Because going to our TMM, all of our
drive time is billed to the clients.
And so it was my responsibility to
find a piece of property that wasn't
going to double that And still
have quick access to our clients.
So I think Looking back at it.
There's two main things I would have
done one the bank told me the next time
(29:23):
I do this hire a general contractor.
Don't do so Spend the extra money.
To have somebody be your general
contractor on this We all, business
owners, think that we can do
it all ourselves, and hey, we
contract these big construction
landscape projects, I can do my own.
(29:44):
You can, but you don't
have the time to do that.
And that's the wrong
place to have your focus.
So focus on the business, right?
And manage the, the,
Yes,
team to build it.
correct.
So I would, that would be my priority.
Like I would redo that.
Because it burned me out.
By the time we moved in, I needed
a break and, and, it burned me out.
(30:06):
And then the second is
hire movers to move you.
Ah,
Your team does not need to be
moving of anything other than
their stuff on their desk.
And that goes for the frontline
team and your management team.
You know, we, we all like to think, okay,
I have, we have all of these employees
(30:26):
that can, we don't have to pay to move.
Well, when I look at, okay, what it costs
me 5, 000 to hire movers to get us all
over here versus how much I spent in
our own labor and missed opportunity.
It was stupid.
So I would say those two things, get a
general contractor, hire movers, focus on
(30:47):
the business and keep the business going.
love it.
So tell me about the
building and the layout
Yeah,
and the, land,
yeah,
little more detail on that.
sure.
So, we have a master
plan for the facility.
Currently we have four buildings
planned, and, Now that we've moved
in, it's great because I'm glad
(31:08):
I didn't build them all at once
Yeah, well, that's, that's
interesting, Kyle, because you, you're
taking it like a phase by phase.
So like live in it, it,
smell it, understand it,
Right.
another building.
Yes.
okay.
Yep.
And so that's one of the biggest things
is that had I just gone whole hog and
built everything I thought I needed, I
(31:30):
would have way overbuilt and been out a
lot more capital than we currently are.
And now that we've lived
in it now for a year.
It's completely changed.
I need one other building for office and
then we need to build focus more on our
shop and expanding that out so We had the
the capabilities to be able to move into
(31:52):
basically a smaller footprint and see
how we live in it and build from there.
So You know our property we've moved
from like an acre and a half to three
acres And really as we're developing
the campus, this is kind of fun.
You a lot of our native and sustainably
and regionally appropriate plant
(32:12):
material, about half of our lot is unused.
And so we are treating that as, you
know, native coastal prairie here in
Houston and seeing what's coming up.
We're identifying plant material
we're knocking out invasives.
We're trying to see how
we can implement this.
In a residential setting so that we can
start, you know, our mission is how do we,
(32:35):
how do we reduce the coverage of, of lawns
in the landscape and the residential?
What are we supplementing that with?
How can we be the leader
in our market to do that?
Because if somebody wants to do that,
they're going to call their own company.
And then how do we get clients and
potential clients out to our facility
to see what we need to see how we can do
it and also make it a great place for.
(32:58):
For the employees to work and
have it be aesthetically pleasing.
We're building a we just finished
the design of what's grown co fields.
So we're going to have a community garden.
That we all partake in and we all grow
from the frontline to the management
and we get to take home fresh produce.
But that's also something you
could, you could pick some produce
(33:18):
and bring it to your client.
Organically grown you know, just kind of
have that whole approach to what we do.
It just goes back to like,
we are horticulture nerds.
That's what we love.
Yeah, yeah, that's that.
That's great.
So the next couple of buildings are going
to be based off of what your need is along
(33:41):
with a learning and growing development.
That's what we talked about earlier
was just the sustainability, you
know, take your time, understand the
horticulture side of the business, a
big training ground for your employees,
onboarding two new team members about
the importance of this facility.
It's not just.
About asphalt and, and, and four
(34:03):
walls and a roof and you go crazy.
Right?
So, yeah.
And the idea, tell me about the
experience of bringing a client there.
What's your vision?
Is something more of like a design
build client maintenance thing to
show and tell and understand, maybe
get to know the feeling of the
team, but that's very impressive.
Yeah, so typically the clients that we
(34:24):
invite out here are going to be more
of our design build type of clients.
And, you know, we have a
design area of our building.
We have our conference room.
And we can show them when we're
talking about, hey, we want to
implement some native areas.
of your landscape, some raised planters,
some more native type of plant materials.
I mean, we have complete pollinator
beds that are planted out here.
(34:45):
And seeing the different textures and the
insects that live within those and really
get clients excited on the front end.
Because a lot of times they hear that
and they think just sticks and weeds.
You know but it's, it's really not and
we can show them that tangibly rather
than just tell them that it's important.
(35:07):
So tell me about your three daughters.
I think I'm just going to run
the ship when you go away.
Hopefully, hopefully
You're involved with them a lot.
I love to see the videos and the
footage of the pollinators and the
Yeah.
and the, it's the community action
with the kids, not just your kids,
but all the family's kids, right?
And everyone just being involved.
It truly is a little, you know,
(35:29):
community within a community.
Yeah.
So I have three daughters Annie,
Olivia, and Amelie, and they
have two, five, and seven.
And, of course they're inspiring
to me and I want them to be really
involved as much as they can in the
fun part of the business right now,
which is that gardening, which is the
pollinator, which are the pollinators.
(35:49):
And we started this
publication called Grown Co.
Kids.
It's a quarterly mailer, you
know, that they're a big part of
in terms of, what kind of content
do we want to put in this mailer?
And we send it out to all of
our clients, kids, grandkids.
For free as part of them being
a client of Grown Company and
it's, it's coloring pages.
(36:09):
It's, it's word searches,
but it's also teaching them.
So we've had our spring and our summer
go out focusing on pollinators, focusing
on Texas wildflowers because we want,
our mission is to get the kids outside.
Go outside, go look at this
stuff, go find these things.
There's native areas and parks around
Houston to really get out and explore.
(36:32):
So we're trying to encourage that next
generation, to be interested in the green
industry and what it is we can offer
so that in 15 years we have more people
interested in what we're doing so that we
can all benefit and grow our businesses.
Love it.
Love it.
Wow.
There's so many takeaways.
(36:53):
I think we'll have to have another episode
of just the Tommy's takeaways, but I'm
going to try to do my best to sort of
condense this, the Tommy takeaways.
are fascinating.
I have a bunch of circles on this.
We talked about TNM success.
You sort of set the bar pretty
high, unintentionally because
you acquired the business.
(37:14):
But my takeaway is Is we operate
on budgets and invoice on actuals.
Love it.
You, you have a specific defined
client and when they call in or get
a referral, you're sort of sort of
kind of figuring out if they're the
right person and the right client.
You have a sort of intake form
(37:35):
you go through and my biggest
thing is communicating about
the budget on the front end.
I love it.
So if you're going to go to the TNM route.
Those are some really good
nuggets for your business.
Yeah.
I love the fact that
you've defined your team.
It's no different in football and
baseball and sports and businesses,
whatever you say, like what defines you,
(37:57):
you're, you guys are defined as master
gardeners, horticulturists professionals
in the, in the landscape industry,
because you, you know, I'm looking at
a picture of your team, rather old.
So you need a new one, Kyle.
So heads up, very uniformed,
very family environment.
Very accountable team.
(38:18):
They love their job.
I love the loyal to your soil.
You're all about the traits people.
You're all about growing within.
That's what creates the
whole master gardening.
The four day work week is unbelievable.
I love it.
God, I think I need to
integrate that into my business.
Seriously, that I could use an extra
day to make a doctor's appointment or,
(38:39):
or you know, go mow some grass for a
couple hours and get my mind off things.
But I love it because you have
this great culture that you're
committed to your team and you're
figuring out a ways of not to be.
Burned out in the landscape industry.
So my, my tuition is figure
out ways to become creative and
inviting as an organization,
(39:00):
because it's, it's, it's tough.
The new office, you've learned
everything, all the what not to do's
but I love the fact that you are
building this in phases and more of
a compound community type atmosphere,
sort of live and learn it a little bit.
and.
You'll be cognizant of your time and
your money spent on that because you're
(39:22):
understanding it versus looking in the
back and go, I should have done this.
Great takeaways.
Kyle, always look for some last
minute advice from our hosts.
I love the fact that I just love
to work hard and put and grind and
love what you do and your passion.
That's why we're both sitting here today.
What do you live and die by?
Any sort of last minute suggestions
(39:42):
and advice for audience?
Love
I have a lot of it.
But I would say, one of the biggest
things that here recently is that it
takes time to build something great.
It doesn't happen overnight and
it's incremental and you have
to look for those little wins.
And you have to build on those little
wins, build a strong foundation.
(40:04):
And by the time you, you know it
you'll be doing something great
but build one step at a time.
One step at a time.
it.
It's a marathon.
It's a journey.
You're not going to figure it out day one.
Don't get, don't overthink it.
I learned something new the other
day and it's done versus perfection.
Yep,
Just, just got to get it done, right?
(40:26):
It doesn't have to be perfect.
You're going to live and
learn at the end of the day.
Man, Kyle, it's been great.
We've got a lot of history together.
I'll never forget our tiny little
office with five project managers.
You and I were awesome, you
know, just pounding it hard.
And.
We'd sneak in a water
burger every now and then.
Fast food.
I think those days are long gone for
me and you, especially your family.
(40:48):
Those days are long gone, but we had
John's, it was Jimmy.
John's
at Jimmy John's around the corner.
You would grab it
yep,
super freaky fast, right?
Because you didn't, you
had no time to eat lunch.
It was
No, we
the go.
Yeah.
to do.
Good stuff, Kyle.
It's been a pleasure.
We're gonna have to do this again.
Maybe like a yearly Grow Co update.
(41:09):
Yeah,
would be kind of fun.
And we'll go from there.
Alright, Tommy, it was great
catching up with you buddy.
Thank you.
Ready to take the next step?
Download our free Profitability Scorecard
to quickly create your own baseline
financial assessment and uncover the
fastest ways to improve your business.
Just go to McFarlinStanford.com/scorecard
(41:31):
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See you next time on the Roots of Success.
The Roots of Success podcast is
for the landscape professional
who's looking to up their game.
We've got a brain trust of experts to
help you nurture the roots of a successful
business and grow to the next level.
This is The Roots of Success.
Welcome to another great episode
of Roots of Success Podcast.
And I'm your host, Tommy Cole.
We have it.
(00:20):
Awesome guest today.
I've got my good friend, Kyle
Cahill from Houston, Texas.
How are you Kyle?
I'm doing great, Tommy.
I am really excited too,
like, got butterflies.
I'm ready to go, man.
Who knew we'd be here 15 years later,
just on a show talking about shop
and business and life, like what the.
(00:43):
I would have never imagined
this in a million years.
Kyle and I go way back,
back all the way to 2009.
We worked for the same company in
Dallas and, we shared an office,
the size of, I was like 10 by
10, the size of a small bedroom
with about,
I think the back of our chairs
just used to hit each other
every time we tried to stand up.
(01:04):
Yep.
Oh, I was like, wow this
is going to be interesting.
I remember I was the, we're
both project managers.
I was the construction kind
of project manager that
handled mostly subcontractors.
Yeah.
And, you know, medium to large scale
jobs and you handled all the crews
and the planting project manager side.
(01:24):
And we work hand in hand on hundreds
of projects for a long, long time.
And so.
I don't know, we considered ourselves
probably the best dynamic duo
there was in Dallas, Fort Worth.
I'm, I'm going to put that up there.
I will second that.
We were, we were a hell of a team.
Yeah, we were awesome.
we had a lot of fun doing it.
We learned a lot doing it.
(01:45):
So that was a
Well, I would say we screwed up a lot.
I mean, we screwed up a ton and we
were like, we got to remember this.
We got to add it to our process
and system and we just got
better and better over the years.
So Kyle is coming from Houston, Texas.
No harm, no foul about the Astros
and those crazy maroon things
that are in college station.
(02:06):
You know, beside all of that, he's a
really good dude, good father, a good
husband, and a really good business owner.
That's why he's on here today.
So, so Kyle, tell us about
growing co company out of Houston.
Well, Tommy, I again, am so excited
to be here and talk with you and talk
(02:26):
about Grown Company and what we've
done and share that with everybody.
So Grown Company, we started in
December of 2016, about two weeks
before my first daughter was born.
Wow.
So my wife and I just decided,
Hey, now's the time let's do it.
Rip the bandaid off and let's go.
Yes.
So we are a high end residential
(02:48):
design build and maintenance
firm located within Houston and
primarily operate only in Houston.
Although we do have design projects
as far away as Santa Fe, New Mexico.
but a lot of our work in house stays
relatively close to the Houston area.
So that's our primary focus.
One thing unique about our firm is
(03:10):
that we operate primarily on a time
and materials basis on, primarily
most scopes of work that we do.
So I'm excited to talk more
about that and explore that.
This is great.
You know, it's, it's funny how we
all work together for a number of
years and we learn and learn and
learn, and then all of a sudden you
pull the trigger and say, I think
I'm going to start this thing myself,
(03:31):
Hmm.
it always sounds easy at first because
you're like, I can do this, but
when it's your own dime and nickel.
It's a little bit different story.
So you know, I'm sure there were
some hard days getting started with
you and probably a crew so to speak.
Right.
Tell us about just getting the
(03:53):
business started before we get into
that TNM thing I really want to
Yeah.
we worked on some pretty high profile
clients, homes and commercial projects.
And so, you know, I went from
multimillion dollar projects and,
and managing a department that was
north of 15 million in revenue.
To back to the basics to myself
(04:15):
and, and going back to all of a
sudden, I'm the one who's contracting
out 10 flats of seasonal color.
I'm installing them myself.
I really had that opportunity with in
that first year of starting growing
company of what I like to always refer
back to as getting back to the basics.
So learn, getting myself, get
my hands dirty being loyal to
(04:37):
my soil really, building myself
back up from the fundamentals.
And that's, that's really
how Grown Company was born.
It was born out of just
getting back to the basics.
I worked primarily out of my house and
within my neighborhood and my neighbors.
And I took one project at a time.
did a lot of the, you know,
(04:58):
one man show owner operator.
My wife continued to work.
She's a PA in the emergency room.
So she bankrolled growing company
to make sure that we would stay
financially viable as we learned our
lesson.
her.
Oh,
I mean, she's, she's honestly
the reason why we were able to
stay in business for that first
Yeah,
year to 18 months.
(05:18):
Good.
So Kyle, we're all dying to hear, and
our audience doesn't know much about you.
One of the coolest, amazing things
about Grow Co is you're known as
this guy called the TNM success.
And if nobody knows what that
is, that's time and materials.
Everything you do from a maintenance
perspective is time and materials.
(05:41):
So whatever it takes to do the time and
whatever materials are added, that's
how you do the maintenance services.
That's a lot different than the norm.
100 percent different than the norm.
What made you go into that route?
that's a great question because you
know I had cut my teeth in this business
in the contracting world, right?
You you get a call from a client
(06:02):
they request your services You go
over you give them a proposal and
hey, this is everything that's
going to be in this proposal divided
by 12 Here's your monthly charge.
And that's how I just assumed that work
was done and that's when I first started
growing company how I did it myself You
You know, I took what I had learned and
applied it to how I was going to do.
(06:23):
After a year in business with Grown
Company, I had the opportunity to, I was
growing and I needed a place to, park my
truck and trailer other than my driveway.
Cause my neighbors were like,
you gotta get out of here.
And so I was fortunate enough to be
introduced to two gentlemen, Robert
Glauser and Danny McNair, who owned a
residential landscape firm in Houston
(06:45):
since 1991 called Glauser McNair.
And they were looking to retire.
They wanted to sell the business.
I wasn't sure if that was something
I wanted to do to acquire a business.
I just needed to get out of my
driveway to appease my neighbors.
So I was introduced to them.
And I always like to say we moved
in together before we got married.
(07:08):
And
So and
Okay.
they, they were a smaller firm, you know,
anywhere from a million and a half to two
and a half million kind of fluctuating.
And, you know, they were towards
the end of their careers and they
had gotten past the point of, Oh,
I need the big revenue numbers.
They wanted to do high quality
(07:29):
work and they wanted to be paid.
So when I like to say I moved in
before we got married, I moved in in.
of 2017 and we finalized
acquisition in June of 2018.
So, at that point I acquired a book of
business that was used to this model.
They were used to the
T and M aspect of it.
(07:50):
So I took that and I saw
what that really meant.
It allowed the crews to deliver a
high detail, high touch service.
It allowed the managers to say
yes more than, well, let me
get you some, a change order.
It, it really allowed my team to say
(08:10):
yes, as opposed to, well, let me see.
and so I understood that, you know, I had
to learn this model and I had to learn how
to best implement it because I understood
that it could be a barrier for growth.
And I made the conscious decision that,
you know what, I really don't care
if it's a barrier for growth because
I want to be paid fairly for the
(08:33):
services that we're providing.
And then in turn, pay my team really
well and provide benefits and a work
environment that they want to be at.
And so, contrary to popular belief,
I mean, we have grown substantially
within that model and the, the
slogan I always tell clients is
like, Hey, this is not a checkbook.
Okay.
I'm going to give you a price and
(08:55):
I'm going to give you a budget.
We're going to operate on
budgets and invoice on actuals.
All right.
So I can't go to a scheduling board and,
you know, with our software and schedule
out these visits with no hours to it.
No, our production team needs
to know, Hey, you have two
hours at the Smith residence.
You have one hour at
the Johnson residence.
We have to schedule it that way.
(09:16):
But if that client comes out and says,
Hey, Kyle, I definitely, I want you
guys to spend another 30 minutes in the
backyard where we had this situation.
Well, that's 30 minutes times three guys.
You've got another hour and a half.
Hey, my guys can say yes, as opposed
to we can only be here for two hours.
So we're going to have to go.
So we set all that up on the front end.
(09:38):
We let the client know what our hourly
rates are, how we're going to bill it.
And what we've started doing and it's kind
of it's been fun is that we get to show
our clients how we are, over delivering
for them where we're actually coming in
under budget and showing them, Hey, this
is what we told you it was going to cost.
This is actually what it's costing.
And because if it rains
all week, guess what?
You don't get charged
for that visit that week.
(09:58):
Yeah.
So I always have found it and I
found it to be a win win for both
the contractor and the client.
And the client because if they ask us
for anything more, hey, it's understood
you're going to get charged for it Just
like if you're at a fancy hotel if you
call them and say hey, you know what?
I want a bottle of champagne The
Ritz Carlton is going to send
it to your room and it's just
(10:19):
understood you're paying for that,
right?
let me see if I can build
a change order for that.
Yeah, so we've taken that
from the the maintenance side.
That's how we run the design
department That's how we run
our construction department.
And so Yeah, we we again I always say
hey it may at some point be a barrier for
growth We haven't reached that ceiling
(10:40):
yet, and we've had great responses
from from our clients With it so
So I got some questions.
You said something fascinating.
Operate on budgets and what?
on actuals
Okay, I love it.
So here's my question.
What's the client's response
when you, when you say this?
This is not the normal.
(11:01):
Are they really intrigued by it?
Do they question it?
sure
like, wow, I've never heard that.
Explain more or see how things go.
Yeah, every single thing you just said.
I've had that response.
Is your team prepared for that
sort of elevator pitch type?
right.
Yeah.
So that's, that's another aspect, right?
(11:21):
Is a lot of the people that we're
recruiting and bringing on have not
operated within this model as well.
So it's training them.
And in fact, again, it's empowering them
to, really satisfy their client's needs
and go above and beyond because there's,
there's not that barrier, you know,
we have that framework to work within.
We are going to be our client's
(11:43):
biggest advocate and they're trusting
us to take care of their landscape.
And if that means they need a service
to treat a fungus, that's going
to go ahead and wipe out their St.
Augustine lawn.
We're going to take care of it.
And we're going to tell you in
our contract beforehand, like
we're going to take care of this.
You know, otherwise, if I've got to call
you, we're talking about replacement.
(12:03):
That's a lot more expensive.
So we have had all those
responses from clients on me.
A lot of it has been a, well,
let's see how that goes.
And, it's been very,
very successful so far.
I love it.
I love it.
So if a client calls in or referral
comes in, there's probably.
I don't know what you guys call it,
but maybe an intake form or a question
or something to say, is this our ideal
(12:25):
client that we always talk about?
Tell me about that.
I'm sure you have something similar to
Yeah, absolutely.
So anytime that we have an inquiry
come across typically it's referral or
just seeing our work It always starts
off with that phone call because what
we want to explain to them is who we
are, what kind of a service that we
provide, and if you're going to find
(12:47):
value in the service that we provide.
If you are looking for that,
flat rate every month, and
somebody to mo blow and come in.
That's, that's not going to be for us.
If you want that relationship, if you
want that high touch when you find value
in that and you find value in a team
that knows what they're doing, that shows
(13:07):
up when they say they're going to show
up, that's important to you, then, then
we're going to be the firm, you know,
to continue this conversation with.
And then at, at that same conversation,
we talk about the TNM model, what
that looks like and what that means.
Because at no time do we want to surprise
a client when we put a contract down
and say, Oh, by the way, it's tfm.
(13:28):
We never want to surprise them
so true.
So also now we talked about the front
end, the expectation, maintaining the
property, the install, but I know people
are asking, but what about the back end?
Like who's collecting all the data to
invoice it quick enough to keep cash
flow and all that, is that an intense
(13:50):
process or you guys have that sort
of dialed in that's got to be decent
Yeah, we've got,
curve.
we've gotten better.
It is still something.
So when we went to six years ago, when I
was implementing an operation software,
I really had to find something that
was not going to let anything hide.
Right?
So what I mean by that
(14:11):
is you can't bury costs.
Like if we purchased something,
it's the software is telling
you where does this cost go?
Where does this cost go?
Where do these man hours go?
We have learned a lot over the years
and we've made a lot of mistakes and
we've made those mistakes to where
Hey, we we tell the client up front.
This is tnm But also right if you don't
communicate with the client that you are
(14:32):
going over budget Well, you got to put
yourself in the client's shoes You need
to prepare clients that you're spending
their money as opposed to just on the back
end saying well We told you it was tnm
No, we have to have a trust relationship
with our clients So we have learned the
hard way and we have implemented systems
and processes going forward where it's
(14:53):
like hey team We know this is new for
everybody but just because we say it's
tnn doesn't mean you can just do whatever
it hasn't been terrible But we've
we've gotten our butts kicked a couple
times and had to eat crow and say
hey We're going to stand behind this.
We should have told you we'll
do better next time and then
we learn from it and move on.
(15:13):
Communication is key in any business.
Yes,
Especially landscaping and service
industry, especially time and materials,
because you can't use TNM as an excuse
no.
to go spend money.
So now you're more cautious to the client.
Cause I go, yeah, we've
got to communicate.
Cause I know what's going to happen.
If I just get an invoice and send
(15:34):
it, they're going to ask questions.
Correct.
you're really having to be methodical
and think about that and communicate
it because you know, it's going
to come with the, you don't
Well, and Tommy, I think one important
thing to keep in mind too is that really
in a contracted business too, right?
Say you had two hours
at the Smith residence.
Well, if, if you're on the high
end, high touch client, if they
ask you to spend 30 more minutes,
(15:57):
typically that garden manager is
going to accommodate a client request.
How many times does that 30 minutes
get added to that work team doesn't it
doesn't and so, Really what I find is
that's where I keep saying it's fair to
the client It's fair to the contractor
because we will absolutely do that for
you understand you add time it adds costs.
(16:17):
We're going to build that so it has
helped with communication a ton And
as a matter of fact, it puts the
onus more so on that garden manager
to make sure they are communicating
Yes.
They know, oh, additional
costs are coming.
I better let my client know because at
Grown Company, we will invoice that.
you know, or I'm going to
be asked what happened here.
(16:37):
Yeah.
You got to provide an explanation
love it the next topic Kyle
would love to discuss this is an
interesting one I love it a lot.
I follow you on social media I listen
to you all the time on other you know
Presentations and you've done some other
podcasts that you're a guest on and
I'm watching you behind the scenes as
(16:58):
I do all of my Clients I talk with and
meet with every year and every month
And I also just watch, I watch and
observe what goes on, good, bad, ugly.
And what I've observed over time
with Grow Co is this thing that I'm
going to call it master gardeners.
And I love the fact that you're putting
so much time and effort into this,
(17:19):
because this is essentially a career.
It's not mow and blow as fast
as you can to make a quick buck.
You are literally like professional
organization, no different than
The NFL football team, no different
than a law firm, none of that.
And you're, you're sustainable.
You take your time.
You do the right thing.
You're loyal to your soil.
(17:41):
Explain that am I right on the
right page of where we're going?
Because that's what I see
from the outside looking in.
No, that's a, I'm glad that
that's something you see
because It's working, So the
message is getting across.
We want to be.
The value in hiring a growing
company is our knowledge and our
specialization and our experience.
(18:02):
You know, I consider all of our front
line to be true trades people, right?
They know their craft.
They get on a pair of hedge pruners and
the way that they are shaping a hedge
it's a work of art, you know, and and
as you know Promoting from within and
having that knowledge work its way up into
the management part of the business We
(18:24):
really want people to be, excited about
horticulture and what we do because that's
what our clients are really looking to
us for is really being experts in that.
And the level of gardens and
landscapes that we work in
requires that of us as well.
Now, we don't know everything
and we're learning and that's
why we have continuous education.
(18:46):
And we trained from within, but
that's really important to us.
And it's really, really essential for
your success working here at Grown Company
and the whole, the be loyal to your soil.
You know, that was something
that, we came up with and.
Actually trademarked it
because I loved it so
much,
there you go.
That it worked on a lot of levels, right?
(19:08):
From the sustainable standpoint,
be loyal to your soil.
I mean, a lot of the research, a lot
of the implementations of big, large
landscape projects, it's all about what's
going on in the soil, the microbiology,
having it be alive because you can't,
you, you plant a 1 plant in a 5 hole.
That's the slogan.
That's what we like to say.
(19:30):
So it's from the actual soil, but be loyal
to your soil in terms of our community,
our company, like we're loyal to each
other on the ground that we stand on.
You know, we're loyal
in that respect as well.
So
Well, it's an attraction.
If I'm, if I'm in high school,
looking to get into the landscape
world, I'm attracted to Grow Co
for that reason, because it's
(19:51):
an absolute career to come in.
You can come in from the ground up
and work your way and be very, very,
very trained and mentored along the
way as this is a professional career,
which we should all take that extremely
seriously.
I, I hate the word, you know, slamming
shrubs in the ground and mow and
blow all these terms that are sort of
thrown out there in our, our industry.
(20:12):
And I think what you're doing, and
I know what you're doing is you're,
putting this up on a pedestal.
That's something that you can set
your career on and be there forever.
And so you're attracting
those types of people.
into your organization, which is great.
okay.
Yeah.
this is a weird one.
You ready for this Kyle?
This is a great.
(20:33):
So we're, we're talking about culture
a lot of times and everyone's got
a good, everyone's got a culture.
Period.
End of story.
Just depends on what side of
the spectrum your culture is.
The good, the bad, in
between, I'm not sure.
Depending on the day that I wake up on the
wrong side of the bed, that's our culture.
You made an interesting, announcement
to your team, I think about a
(20:54):
year ago, this time last year,
roughly, and I witnessed it.
And I said, Ooh, that's
an interesting one.
There's this thing called the four
day work week, nine 80 schedule.
Yes.
You got to tell me what your
thoughts behind all this, what is it?
And how was the outcome?
Sure.
So you are correct.
We implemented this about a
(21:15):
year ago and we trialed it.
We told the entire team this 980 schedule.
We're going to try it for three months.
If we see that it is negatively impacting
our ability to generate revenue,
our profitability, just the culture
in general, then it's going away.
(21:36):
But this is important.
And here's why it's important.
Tommy, you know, from our
early days in working in this
industry it can be daunting.
You can burn out.
You've got ups and downs,
especially in construction.
When it's crazy busy, it's crazy busy.
And looking at how the world and people
(21:58):
in general are evolving, I wanted to make
sure that we were staying on the forefront
of that while we were young as a company.
The 980 schedule came out of a
conversation with our leadership
team about trying to address that.
How are we going to address the potential
for team members to be overworked?
How do we create a culture and an
(22:19):
environment where we support the family
and we support the life outside of work?
I don't like the term work life
balance because I don't necessarily
buy into the the meaning behind that.
I always like to say work life
integration because when you
are working you are also living.
If your wife calls you, you're going
to call her back on a workday, right?
(22:40):
We aren't just shutting
it off and turning it on.
We are integrating our work in our life.
That's just, if we got to be
honest with ourselves about that.
it.
And then, so the 980 schedule
came from actually our controller.
Her husband works at Shelly and
they run off a 980 schedule.
So I was like, tell me more.
So 980 stands for over a nine day period.
(23:01):
So a typical work week, Monday
through Friday, five days.
So over nine days, so
one week is five days.
The next week is four.
You work 80 hours.
So that gives you one
day off every other week.
We have decided to give
Monday off every other week.
So we have two teams.
So there was, we had to really
figure this out because we're
(23:22):
a high end residential company.
We need to be able to our clients.
We can't just say, Hey, we're closed.
Right?
Okay.
We're not there to help you.
We have to always have somebody on call.
So we have two teams, blue and white.
That's our company colors.
We have a team blue.
We have a team white.
Your counterpart.
Is off on that day.
So for example, you know, you can't
have all garden managers off We have
(23:43):
four garden managers two off two on
on those mondays that we can handle
calls and get responses So what that
equates to was an additional 26 days off
okay.
per client.
This is middle management You know
salaried employees that get this an
additional 26 days off per year Almost
a month, no cut in pay and establishing
(24:06):
that three day or that, yeah, that
three day weekend every other week.
For me personally, I partake in
this, it has been incredible.
I mean, heck, my birthday was on Monday
and it was.
birthday, by the way.
Thank you.
It was my day off.
So I was like, Hey, this is great.
I'm not working
on my brain.
year, your day off will
be on Tuesdays, right?
(24:27):
Like,
Yeah.
you'll switch it.
But it has been extremely, extremely
impactful and I'm, I'm excited as we
continue to develop it because I do feel
like it's an additional recruiting tool
that we offer that we are understanding
that we are ahead of the curve.
That we know how to
manage it in this respect.
And so it, it's been successful so far.
(24:49):
You know, it's, it's, we're about to
wrap up year one, and I, I feel like
the, the feedback we've gotten from
the team has been, has been wonderful.
So that's how that came about, and,
and I, I'm excited to continue on.
You know, burnout is
real in this industry.
It is so real.
We're compared to construction.
(25:10):
Landscape, I've always said this for
years, is really one of the toughest
professions to get in because it
demands so much 12 months a year.
Yep.
There's really no off season.
You know, it's every day, and you're
battling weather you know, training,
the labor force, materials, sensitive
materials, deliveries, everything you
(25:30):
could ever imagine is thrown in your face.
Other trades.
And it's just like, we keep going
and going and going, but the beat
down is pretty real in our industry.
And there's a high turnover ratio in that.
So I love, I love the fact that
you've figured out a way to say,
here's a few extra days off.
Here's a good amount of extra days
off, but make sure you put in the work.
(25:53):
Right.
So you're not sacrificing your
client's time and the business's time.
You're still putting it, but
you're making sure that you're,
you're forcing people take the PTO
correct, and I'll tell you one unintended
consequence that we've learned from this
that I was not planning on Was when you
(26:13):
have your Monday off, you don't want
to be bothered So you are preparing
and you are communicating so that you
are not bothered So I find that people
are actually the team members are
actually communicating and preparing
better So that they don't have to bother
their counterpart when they're off
Yes.
know, it's kind of like
you scratch my back.
(26:33):
I'll scratch yours.
Yes.
if anything comes up I'm going to
take care of it for you, but make sure
you've got all your stuff in order
So i'm not picking up the pieces.
Yeah.
Very team oriented.
Right.
So if someone was to leave.
You could observe that or handle the
issues, but you could also get it from
a different manager's perspective.
But if you had to go meet or resolve
(26:53):
a problem, you know, Hey, I had to
deal with this, you know, this is
what I saw on the property and this is
what I'm seeing in the communication.
You can kind of feed off of each other.
Very team oriented dynamic
in that, that aspect.
Love it.
So let me ask you this,
what happens to PTO?
so that remains the same
Okay,
that that all remains the same
so our pto, program So this
(27:16):
yes, you know you reference pto.
This is not considered pto.
This is just schedule
it's very interesting.
Is anyone else doing the same thing?
Is that
I mean other company.
I don't know.
Shale?
Yeah, I don't know about landscape
firms and i'm sure there are I just,
you know, I don't know of them.
I think maybe in the South, because
(27:38):
to your point, like in landscaping
in the South, it doesn't stop.
Never.
no snow season.
It's just, there's hurricane season.
But, so I don't know if I'm in the South.
Good stuff.
Good stuff.
All right, next big topic.
This thing called a facility.
Everyone's doing it.
(27:59):
Oh my gosh.
I have heard it.
I'm gonna build a new facility, Tommy.
I'm cash strapped.
What do I do?
Is it a two bay?
Is it a three bay?
Do I cover the vehicles?
Do I not?
How much office space, it's too small,
it's too big, drainage, I mean, it is like
Mm hmm.
And we're not even, we're
(28:19):
not even good at that.
We good.
We're good at doing the landscape,
let alone being the owner of a
general contractor building, you
know, something that you can envision.
It's hard.
Tell me about what you've done there.
I think there's some good
attributes to that very sustainable,
yeah,
eco friendly type building, but
tell me some of the lessons learned
(28:41):
so our audience can understand and
maybe get a few nuggets out of this.
right.
So, I mean, first things
first is the location.
So, I spent about two years finding
the right piece of property.
Because it had to be of size, I had to
have a certain size, had to be affordable,
and it had to have the right location
in terms of getting to our job site.
(29:01):
Because going to our TMM, all of our
drive time is billed to the clients.
And so it was my responsibility to
find a piece of property that wasn't
going to double that And still
have quick access to our clients.
So I think Looking back at it.
There's two main things I would have
done one the bank told me the next time
(29:23):
I do this hire a general contractor.
Don't do so Spend the extra money.
To have somebody be your general
contractor on this We all, business
owners, think that we can do
it all ourselves, and hey, we
contract these big construction
landscape projects, I can do my own.
(29:44):
You can, but you don't
have the time to do that.
And that's the wrong
place to have your focus.
So focus on the business, right?
And manage the, the,
Yes,
team to build it.
correct.
So I would, that would be my priority.
Like I would redo that.
Because it burned me out.
By the time we moved in, I needed
a break and, and, it burned me out.
(30:06):
And then the second is
hire movers to move you.
Ah,
Your team does not need to be
moving of anything other than
their stuff on their desk.
And that goes for the frontline
team and your management team.
You know, we, we all like to think, okay,
I have, we have all of these employees
(30:26):
that can, we don't have to pay to move.
Well, when I look at, okay, what it costs
me 5, 000 to hire movers to get us all
over here versus how much I spent in
our own labor and missed opportunity.
It was stupid.
So I would say those two things, get a
general contractor, hire movers, focus on
(30:47):
the business and keep the business going.
love it.
So tell me about the
building and the layout
Yeah,
and the, land,
yeah,
little more detail on that.
sure.
So, we have a master
plan for the facility.
Currently we have four buildings
planned, and, Now that we've moved
in, it's great because I'm glad
(31:08):
I didn't build them all at once
Yeah, well, that's, that's
interesting, Kyle, because you, you're
taking it like a phase by phase.
So like live in it, it,
smell it, understand it,
Right.
another building.
Yes.
okay.
Yep.
And so that's one of the biggest things
is that had I just gone whole hog and
built everything I thought I needed, I
(31:30):
would have way overbuilt and been out a
lot more capital than we currently are.
And now that we've lived
in it now for a year.
It's completely changed.
I need one other building for office and
then we need to build focus more on our
shop and expanding that out so We had the
the capabilities to be able to move into
(31:52):
basically a smaller footprint and see
how we live in it and build from there.
So You know our property we've moved
from like an acre and a half to three
acres And really as we're developing
the campus, this is kind of fun.
You a lot of our native and sustainably
and regionally appropriate plant
(32:12):
material, about half of our lot is unused.
And so we are treating that as, you
know, native coastal prairie here in
Houston and seeing what's coming up.
We're identifying plant material
we're knocking out invasives.
We're trying to see how
we can implement this.
In a residential setting so that we can
start, you know, our mission is how do we,
(32:35):
how do we reduce the coverage of, of lawns
in the landscape and the residential?
What are we supplementing that with?
How can we be the leader
in our market to do that?
Because if somebody wants to do that,
they're going to call their own company.
And then how do we get clients and
potential clients out to our facility
to see what we need to see how we can do
it and also make it a great place for.
(32:58):
For the employees to work and
have it be aesthetically pleasing.
We're building a we just finished
the design of what's grown co fields.
So we're going to have a community garden.
That we all partake in and we all grow
from the frontline to the management
and we get to take home fresh produce.
But that's also something you
could, you could pick some produce
(33:18):
and bring it to your client.
Organically grown you know, just kind of
have that whole approach to what we do.
It just goes back to like,
we are horticulture nerds.
That's what we love.
Yeah, yeah, that's that.
That's great.
So the next couple of buildings are going
to be based off of what your need is along
(33:41):
with a learning and growing development.
That's what we talked about earlier
was just the sustainability, you
know, take your time, understand the
horticulture side of the business, a
big training ground for your employees,
onboarding two new team members about
the importance of this facility.
It's not just.
About asphalt and, and, and four
(34:03):
walls and a roof and you go crazy.
Right?
So, yeah.
And the idea, tell me about the
experience of bringing a client there.
What's your vision?
Is something more of like a design
build client maintenance thing to
show and tell and understand, maybe
get to know the feeling of the
team, but that's very impressive.
Yeah, so typically the clients that we
(34:24):
invite out here are going to be more
of our design build type of clients.
And, you know, we have a
design area of our building.
We have our conference room.
And we can show them when we're
talking about, hey, we want to
implement some native areas.
of your landscape, some raised planters,
some more native type of plant materials.
I mean, we have complete pollinator
beds that are planted out here.
(34:45):
And seeing the different textures and the
insects that live within those and really
get clients excited on the front end.
Because a lot of times they hear that
and they think just sticks and weeds.
You know but it's, it's really not and
we can show them that tangibly rather
than just tell them that it's important.
(35:07):
So tell me about your three daughters.
I think I'm just going to run
the ship when you go away.
Hopefully, hopefully
You're involved with them a lot.
I love to see the videos and the
footage of the pollinators and the
Yeah.
and the, it's the community action
with the kids, not just your kids,
but all the family's kids, right?
And everyone just being involved.
It truly is a little, you know,
(35:29):
community within a community.
Yeah.
So I have three daughters Annie,
Olivia, and Amelie, and they
have two, five, and seven.
And, of course they're inspiring
to me and I want them to be really
involved as much as they can in the
fun part of the business right now,
which is that gardening, which is the
pollinator, which are the pollinators.
(35:49):
And we started this
publication called Grown Co.
Kids.
It's a quarterly mailer, you
know, that they're a big part of
in terms of, what kind of content
do we want to put in this mailer?
And we send it out to all of
our clients, kids, grandkids.
For free as part of them being
a client of Grown Company and
it's, it's coloring pages.
(36:09):
It's, it's word searches,
but it's also teaching them.
So we've had our spring and our summer
go out focusing on pollinators, focusing
on Texas wildflowers because we want,
our mission is to get the kids outside.
Go outside, go look at this
stuff, go find these things.
There's native areas and parks around
Houston to really get out and explore.
(36:32):
So we're trying to encourage that next
generation, to be interested in the green
industry and what it is we can offer
so that in 15 years we have more people
interested in what we're doing so that we
can all benefit and grow our businesses.
Love it.
Love it.
Wow.
There's so many takeaways.
(36:53):
I think we'll have to have another episode
of just the Tommy's takeaways, but I'm
going to try to do my best to sort of
condense this, the Tommy takeaways.
are fascinating.
I have a bunch of circles on this.
We talked about TNM success.
You sort of set the bar pretty
high, unintentionally because
you acquired the business.
(37:14):
But my takeaway is Is we operate
on budgets and invoice on actuals.
Love it.
You, you have a specific defined
client and when they call in or get
a referral, you're sort of sort of
kind of figuring out if they're the
right person and the right client.
You have a sort of intake form
(37:35):
you go through and my biggest
thing is communicating about
the budget on the front end.
I love it.
So if you're going to go to the TNM route.
Those are some really good
nuggets for your business.
Yeah.
I love the fact that
you've defined your team.
It's no different in football and
baseball and sports and businesses,
whatever you say, like what defines you,
(37:57):
you're, you guys are defined as master
gardeners, horticulturists professionals
in the, in the landscape industry,
because you, you know, I'm looking at
a picture of your team, rather old.
So you need a new one, Kyle.
So heads up, very uniformed,
very family environment.
Very accountable team.
(38:18):
They love their job.
I love the loyal to your soil.
You're all about the traits people.
You're all about growing within.
That's what creates the
whole master gardening.
The four day work week is unbelievable.
I love it.
God, I think I need to
integrate that into my business.
Seriously, that I could use an extra
day to make a doctor's appointment or,
(38:39):
or you know, go mow some grass for a
couple hours and get my mind off things.
But I love it because you have
this great culture that you're
committed to your team and you're
figuring out a ways of not to be.
Burned out in the landscape industry.
So my, my tuition is figure
out ways to become creative and
inviting as an organization,
(39:00):
because it's, it's, it's tough.
The new office, you've learned
everything, all the what not to do's
but I love the fact that you are
building this in phases and more of
a compound community type atmosphere,
sort of live and learn it a little bit.
and.
You'll be cognizant of your time and
your money spent on that because you're
(39:22):
understanding it versus looking in the
back and go, I should have done this.
Great takeaways.
Kyle, always look for some last
minute advice from our hosts.
I love the fact that I just love
to work hard and put and grind and
love what you do and your passion.
That's why we're both sitting here today.
What do you live and die by?
Any sort of last minute suggestions
(39:42):
and advice for audience?
Love
I have a lot of it.
But I would say, one of the biggest
things that here recently is that it
takes time to build something great.
It doesn't happen overnight and
it's incremental and you have
to look for those little wins.
And you have to build on those little
wins, build a strong foundation.
(40:04):
And by the time you, you know it
you'll be doing something great
but build one step at a time.
One step at a time.
it.
It's a marathon.
It's a journey.
You're not going to figure it out day one.
Don't get, don't overthink it.
I learned something new the other
day and it's done versus perfection.
Yep,
Just, just got to get it done, right?
(40:26):
It doesn't have to be perfect.
You're going to live and
learn at the end of the day.
Man, Kyle, it's been great.
We've got a lot of history together.
I'll never forget our tiny little
office with five project managers.
You and I were awesome, you
know, just pounding it hard.
And.
We'd sneak in a water
burger every now and then.
Fast food.
I think those days are long gone for
me and you, especially your family.
(40:48):
Those days are long gone, but we had
John's, it was Jimmy.
John's
at Jimmy John's around the corner.
You would grab it
yep,
super freaky fast, right?
Because you didn't, you
had no time to eat lunch.
It was
No, we
the go.
Yeah.
to do.
Good stuff, Kyle.
It's been a pleasure.
We're gonna have to do this again.
Maybe like a yearly Grow Co update.
(41:09):
Yeah,
would be kind of fun.
And we'll go from there.
Alright, Tommy, it was great
catching up with you buddy.
Thank you.
Ready to take the next step?
Download our free Profitability Scorecard
to quickly create your own baseline
financial assessment and uncover the
fastest ways to improve your business.
Just go to McFarlinStanford.com/scorecard
(41:31):
to get yours today To learn more about
McFarlin Stanford our best in class
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See you next time on the Roots of Success.
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