June 20, 2024 • 39 mins
What if the key to your landscaping business's success isn't just hard work, but smart work? On this episode of "Roots of Success," host Tommy Cole introduces Mark Bradley, the CEO of LMN, who reveals the secrets behind his rapid business growth and the systems that keep it thriving. Delving into the importance of apprenticeship programs, key financial metrics, and goal setting, Mark's journey from nuclear industry to landscaping leadership offers lessons every business owner needs. Tune in to discover strategic ways to boost efficiency, enhance employee morale, and achieve continuous improvement in your enterprise.
THE BIG IDEA:
Enjoy the journey
KEY MOMENTS:
[05:44] Scaling business led to challenges in efficiency, quality.
[07:31] Business success depends on optimizing customers and employees.
[12:50] Embrace continuous improvement for business success.
[18:57] Key financial metrics and supporting ratios for business.
[22:29] Key metrics inform key performance action for improvement.
[30:38] Training and higher wages attract skilled workers.
[34:08] Career ladder is key for growing people.
QUESTIONS WE ANSWER
What are the benefits of implementing apprenticeship programs in landscaping?
How do I measure the success of my business using key financial metrics?
What systems and processes should I use to optimize my landscaping business?
How do goal setting and continuous improvement contribute to business success?
How do I set and achieve business goals in the landscaping industry?
FOR SHOW NOTES & MORE, GO TO:
https://mcfarlinstanford.com/podcast/ep-031-secrets-to-success-strategies-from-lmn-ceo-mark-bradley/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The Roots of Success podcast is
for the landscape professional
who's looking to up their game.
We've got a brain trust of experts to
help you nurture the roots of a successful
business and grow to the next level.
This is The Roots of Success.
Welcome to another episode
of Roots of Success Podcast.
And I'm your host, Tommy Cole.
(00:21):
And we have a great one
today, as we always do.
Our guests are awesome, We have the CEO
of LMN Mark Bradley on the show today.
Welcome Mark.
Yeah, thank you.
Glad to be here.
this goes way, way back.
I met Mark years ago.
He probably doesn't even know this.
But I'd say eight, 10 years
(00:42):
ago, I saw him speak at the NALP
event in Louisville, Kentucky.
And I was in the very back and I
said, man, that guy, that guy's,
guy's got something good to,
good to share with our industry.
He's got a good software.
It seemed like, and I was
fascinated by your story and
building your landscape company.
(01:02):
And I said, at some point
I'm going to meet that guy.
And years down the road, here we are
together on a, on a podcast and, our
paths have come across each other numerous
times over the last several years.
So I'm, I'm very excited
to have you on board.
Yeah, well, thanks for having me.
I really appreciate the invite
and yeah, excited to chat.
(01:22):
I'm definitely a fan of the podcast.
I've enjoyed listening to a lot
of the other episodes recently.
So, yeah.
Good to be here.
Good, So let's go way back, Mark.
let's talk about your sort of bringing
up into this world and you all the
side businesses and the startups of
as, as a young adult, but, but, but
(01:43):
Give us a little bit of background.
I've, I've heard the story a few times
and, attending some of your mastermind
sessions and just some small talk
here and there, but let's give our
audience kind of like a backstory of,
of where you were as a young adult.
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, I mean through my early, early
years, high school years, I was kind
of grew up in the countryside and
(02:04):
lived on an acreage and enjoyed enjoyed
working outside, just really loved
being out there, doing hard work.
And I think through my high
school years, I found myself.
You know, selling firewood and topsoil
and trees and doing small landscape
projects and just really took a lot
of a lot of enjoyment out of the
(02:26):
work itself and always enjoyed the
creativity and that side of things.
And as I went through high school,
I decided to enter the nuclear
industry as a, as an apprentice.
So right out of high school, I
did an apprenticeship as a steam
fitter and found that to be a, an
(02:47):
incredibly valuable experience.
I mean, it was great, good to learn the
trade skills, but also just to learn a
lot about organization, about, Estimating
project management, job costing.
I just, the, the experience
of working in that environment
was really, really valuable.
(03:07):
but I did find myself a little bit, maybe.
Tired of that type of environment a
little faster than I would have expected.
I found, you know, working indoors,
working in a union environment
with a, with a lot of people that,
you know, sort of had a, I would
say sort of a limited belief of,
(03:29):
of where they were going in life.
I just found myself.
a little bit tired and needed
something a little more refreshing.
And that's, that's what sort of
led me back into landscaping, just
getting outside and enjoying things.
Yeah.
it's all fascinating as a young
adult or as a kid of like looking
back in the past of all the small
(03:49):
things we did, what got us here.
I mean, my, for instance, I was.
Selling fireworks in Texas.
I was cleaning warehouses.
I was throwing, I was doing paper
route, you know, as a 14 year old kid
that didn't have a driver's license.
It's like all those things that happen
that you don't really know what's going
to take you has taken you to great places.
(04:12):
So working at the nuclear plant has kind
of kicked you off with your landscaping,
you know, career with estimating project
management, jobs, that sort of thing.
It's.
It's fascinating.
my mom and dad always said, well, you're
going to have to learn how to like
greet customers and work the register
at the same time in a firework stand.
And I'm like, I don't know how
this equates to life, but I guess,
(04:33):
sure, I'll, I'll figure it out.
But it equates to life a lot, right?
Yeah, it's so true.
I think everything is a building block.
You know, if, if you kind
of look at yourself as a.
You know, the ultimate in pattern
recognition, I think, as we are more and
more exposed to different things in our
careers and even in our personal lives.
(04:55):
I think they all kind of stack
up all these patterns become
part of a greater recipe.
And I think if you're clear on
your purpose, then you put those
patterns to work in different ways.
But yeah, no, I'm super thankful for.
My my time as an apprentice,
I learned a lot for sure.
But yeah, getting back to landscaping
was, was, was more natural for me.
(05:18):
And so as I kicked off the landscape
company, it, it grew really quickly.
We focused on design build and
landscape maintenance and, obviously,
being from Toronto, snow plowing
was a big part of the business.
And so as the business started to scale,
which it did grow fairly quickly, I, I was
pretty fortunate my 1st year in business.
(05:38):
I hit a 1M dollars in sales.
It was maybe fortunate and unfortunate
because I made a lot of mistakes, whether
it was learning the hard way on estimating
labor times or making bad decisions on.
Who to work for.
There was many but yeah, I think because
the business was scaling so quickly,
(05:59):
I just really had to focus a lot on.
Systems processes, I really tried to do
my best to, to really get job costing
dialed in as quickly as possible so
that I could really understand what
was working well and what wasn't.
And yeah, the business continued to grow.
So I guess about 10 years
(06:20):
into business, it was growing.
Very nicely, but I was definitely
starting to feel the, the pain that
I think many of us feel is, you
know, the efficiency starts to,
decay pretty badly and then quality.
And then there's safety issues, and then
there's morale issues and culture issues.
(06:40):
All these things start to pop up as you
scale the company and kind of tests.
The limits of your leadership.
And I certainly was finding, all of the
above, definitely lots of challenges
we as we were growing the business.
Yeah.
So tell me about, this is
just a fascinating take.
(07:01):
When you say the word systems and
processes, I feel like that's a
word that is being used in In our
industry to the most extreme when
people say that, but from you, Mark,
what, what does that mean to you?
Systems in processes?
it's such a big, word that
we all want to accomplish.
But at the end of the day, I feel like
(07:21):
we go to conferences and masterminds
and things, and we talk about, we
need to integrate systems process,
but then we go back to our office.
And our shop and we just kind of get
back involved in the same thing of
what we're just easy to do Like kind of
like the easy route and but what does
that mean systems and processes to you?
(07:41):
Yeah, that, that's a,
that's a great question.
And I, I really tend to agree that
sometimes people talk at such a high level
that people don't really, action anything.
And so the easiest way for me to
look at systems and processes is.
What are they for?
And ultimately, when you're in
business, I kind of look at it
(08:03):
from a pretty simple perspective.
I'm in business, to service a large group
of customers with a team of employees.
And so ultimately, my revenue depends
on being really good at what I do,
and the likelihood of actually making
any actual profit relies on being
(08:24):
really good at doing that work.
And so ultimately, the systems and
processes I have to attract more
business to the, to the company, and
then they need to allow us to create and
deliver what it is that we're selling
better than anybody else and do it in
a way where we can compete at average
(08:45):
pricing or competitive pricing, but
still earn a profit and still pay our
staff better wages than everybody else.
And so those systems and processes really.
Start to take on more meaning.
It's about optimizing my customers
and optimizing my employees so that
I have an optimal business outcome.
(09:05):
And so ultimately when you look at a
business and you think about what needs
to be done to really truly be the best
at attracting customers and building
people, you quickly realize that you need
to set some goals and then those goals
need strategies and supporting systems in
order for those things to actually happen.
(09:27):
In a repeatable way.
So the systems are all
about customers and people.
Yeah,
you know what's what's fascinating
to me is i've attended several of
your masterminds and and seen you
speak on various platforms and you
are really big on goals You setting
(09:47):
what we call smart goals and holding
yourself accountable to those goals,
adjusting those goals through life.
Managing the process and
the progress of those goals.
I, I feel like Mark, that has been
one of the biggest things that's
got to the platform that you are
now personally and professionally
(10:10):
is, is this big goal setting.
Can you talk about how that's made an
impact on, on you and your businesses?
Yeah, for sure.
Ultimately, like the way I kind of
look at goal setting is when we create
a mission for ourselves in life or
in, or for a business, that it's just
part of our life, I think once we
(10:32):
have a mission, then it becomes a lot
easier to set some goals short and
long term that allow us to actually
make that mission become a reality.
And so when we when we start to break
down a business and we think here's
our vision for, you know, 10 years from
(10:52):
now for the business, and here's our
mission, that's going to get us there.
I think the next step is really just.
Deciding on what the big
goals are for the business.
And so personally, I like to set
three to five goals each year
with supporting key results.
And then as a business, I like
to do the same and in business.
(11:13):
I think most businesses, the, the, the
overarching goals are fairly similar.
You know, we're usually.
We're going to grow revenue.
That's the goal for most businesses.
We're going to grow people.
That's gotta be a goal in most businesses.
Then we've got to grow our brand
so that people find out about us.
(11:35):
We need to provide.
The best customer experience possible
so that the customers are happy and they
keep coming back and they keep telling
everybody else about what we're doing.
And then last, we have to be efficient
at what we do, because if we're not
efficient and we can't do it competitively
and we can't pay our staff really well.
(11:57):
So those five goals for me are always kind
of the overarching goals for business.
And then what I'm doing
is creating three to five.
Key results for each of those goals
for every quarter so that we're always
moving the needle in those five areas.
We always have to be growing revenue.
We always have to be growing people.
(12:19):
We have to be growing the brand.
We have to be getting more efficient
and we have to be getting better
at servicing our customers.
So each quarter, if I'm constantly
evolving the business with a few
key initiatives that get us some
measurable improvement in each
one of those areas, then The
business just keeps getting better.
And ultimately I think that's
what life and business is about.
(12:41):
It's just, you know,
continuous improvement.
It's very fulfilling when you can
live in the moment and just see
what is getting better each day.
And I think.
When you design a goal setting
system with a supporting measuring
system, then all these other things
come into clarity much, much faster.
Love it.
(13:01):
You know, I think you hit the nail on
the head with continuous improvement.
A lot of times us as business owners,
especially in the landscape industry,
we are the worst about overthinking and
overanalyzing every single decision.
Whether it's the right one and the
wrong one and why and how come and the
(13:22):
weather and the labor and the sales.
And the operations and
the HR and the culture.
And should I do this?
And should I not do that?
Well, how come?
Well, why not?
And the ripe old age of software.
Is that software good?
Is it bad?
Why is it bad?
It's just, but at the end of the day, and
you would probably agree to this, Mark.
(13:43):
It's not the outcome.
It's about the journey, right?
It's this long journey of continuous
improvement along the way.
And I use the analogy of.
You know, chopping down a tree, right?
You're not going to hit it in one swing
and it's going to fall down, but the
continuous chopping every single day,
eventually the tree is going to fall.
Right.
(14:03):
And that's the part of the journey.
What, what type of things that you
have learned across your business
success so far in your personal
life about continuous improvement?
has got to where you are now.
Well, since you mentioned the ax in
the tree, that's my, one of my favorite
quotes, and I think we've shared this
before the Abraham Lincoln quote, my
(14:24):
favorite yeah, just to sharpen the ax.
If I can sharpen that ax that tree's
going to come down a whole lot easier.
And so ultimately I think like for me.
Along the way, what I, what
I tend to focus on are the
key metrics in the business.
And so when you understand what the
key metrics are, it becomes a lot
(14:47):
easier to measure the result of all
of these activities that you mentioned
that we might decide are important.
And I think ultimately what happens
is us business owners tend to be more
emotional than we need to be when
we don't have really good metrics.
(15:08):
Guide us.
And so what happens is sometimes
each day, depending on what issue is
in front of us, we start to react.
And the problem with that is, is when
you're kind of a reactive business
owner is you tend to overthink
all the little things and then you
overreact to the little things.
But when you're a little bit more metric
(15:30):
driven when you've got goals and you can
look at the actual results and look at
the metrics that tell a rational story.
Then even when you're in maybe a negative
emotional state and you're in a bad mood
or you're exhausted or somebody just upset
you or a customer called to complain about
a crew or whatever it happens to be, or
(15:50):
somebody just quit the worst thing, right?
Now you can go to the metrics and actually
just kind of see how things are going.
And take a rational look at the business.
And I think move forward with, with at
least some sort of, clarity instead of
an opinion or a mood that you're in.
(16:10):
And I think as business owners,
that's important, but it's also
important for everybody to.
In the business to have key metrics.
And I think when everybody in the
business understands what the key
metrics are, they know when they're
winning and when they're losing for
themselves, and they're less reliant on
somebody to come along and tell them.
That they're doing a good job.
(16:31):
And I'm all for, you know, positive
feedback, but the reality is oftentimes
we're busy and we don't talk often
enough and we don't give feedback often
enough and people don't understand that
they're actually doing a great job.
And when we put those metrics in
front of them and they understand what
success looks like, two things happen.
(16:53):
One, they can focus their efforts
and actually put effort into things
that are going to move the needle.
In the area that we need it moved.
And then secondly, they can feel
good about their day and be in the
moment and enjoy the success that
they're actually having at work.
And I think metrics that are tied to
(17:14):
goals just kind of create a winning
formula for everybody, because.
Everybody wants to get better when
they know what they're measuring.
And then everybody feels like
they're doing better when the success
is happening and it's rational.
So even in the worst day of the year,
everybody knows that you're still winning.
And I think that's pretty important.
(17:35):
All right.
Totally agree.
So some key metrics, Mark, are there
key metrics that you look at in, in,
you know, take our audience that are
all business owners, what, what are
some key metrics that they should be
looking at as far as the business?
That's part one question.
Part two is.
Sharing that information
(17:55):
with your team, right?
There's always that hesitation of sharing
too much or not enough, or are they
going to understand it or why should I
share all, there's all these overthinking
things of sharing metrics or sharing
knowledge and operational knowledge.
how do you go about all that?
(18:19):
That's a, that's a big question for sure.
And a good one.
So first off, I, the first
question was what metrics, And
this one I get all the time.
People ask me like, what
metrics should I be measuring?
And the truth is there's a lot of metrics
in every business, but the key metrics
(18:39):
are the ones to, to really focus on.
And so I think if you get some
key metrics and then you look
at some supporting metrics it
becomes a little bit more clear.
So what are the key metrics?
And so financial metrics.
We need some people metrics.
We need some sales metrics.
We need some, metrics related
(19:00):
to customer experience.
We need some metrics related to
marketing analytics and whatnot as well.
And so if you start to look and say, well,
we've got metrics for each major portion
of the business, what are the key ones?
And then once we have the key ones,
then we can kind of, you know, narrow
(19:22):
in on some of those more defined.
Supporting metrics separately.
So key metrics for me, for financial
health of the business, I want to
know the growth rate of the business.
Of course, I want to know the revenue.
I always want to understand what the
gross profit, the net profit, and then
(19:43):
a key metric that I really believe
in is revenue per hour, and so if I
understand those basic metrics as my
financial metrics, then it becomes
really easy for me to look at expenses.
On a more granular basis on
key ratios in the business.
And some of those key ratios
for me are the labor ratio, the
(20:05):
material relate ratio, equipment,
subcontractor and overhead ratios.
And once I know those ratios and I know
the gross profit, then it becomes much
easier for pricing and for day to day.
Job costing.
And so once I've got those key
financial metrics, then it's just
a matter of trickling those down.
(20:26):
And so for the frontline field staff,
it's going to be taken right down to
estimated versus actual hours, because
that's all they can really control.
They don't estimate the jobs.
They just execute the job.
So what we're doing is saying, here's
your production goal for the, for the
crew in revenue, and we're going to give
you enough work to hit that revenue goal.
(20:47):
Okay.
And all you need to do is hit the
numbers on estimated versus actual hours.
And we're going to we're
going to win together.
And so we take the financial top
line metrics and create a key metric
for every employee in the business.
And in the case of the field
staff, it would be estimated
versus our for sales staff.
(21:09):
It's going to be very different.
It's going to be, you know, the
proposed work volume and number of
estimates and proposals they have out.
Their close rate is
going to be a key metric.
And then the work that they've
closed year to date, along with
gross profit and revenue per hour.
And again, so we've got a small number
(21:29):
of metrics for every department that
keep tying back to the company goals.
And so we do the same
thing for every department.
And once everybody has a
key metric in a company.
Then everybody is aligned to
those top line financial goals.
And then we can really start to hammer in
on, driving real improvement in each of
(21:52):
those five areas that we've got goals that
are all tied back to one financial plan.
Wow.
I love how you started very
broad, big picture, right?
With this, with the sales.
Finance and the people that you get
very, very big on your key metrics.
And then below that, you start the
supporting key metrics and you start
(22:14):
diving into a little more detailed items.
That, that's, that's real
good for our audience.
'cause I think we can get sidetracked
of like, what are key metrics?
It's just, it's, it's also,
you know, a fancy word.
But people don't, I don't necessarily
understand what those are.
At the end of the day, it's great
to start high and kind of nose dive
(22:34):
detailed into those into those small
categories and find those work.
a key thing there is I always like
to say that there's key metrics,
which are super important, but
you have to also understand.
What the key performance actions are that
actually impact those metrics because
(22:55):
metrics, they're telling us a result.
But what we really need to focus
on is what key performance and we
take to really drive improvement.
And I think when you take the time
to explain the key metrics to your
staff, what you really need to
do at the same time is explain.
What the key performance actions are
(23:17):
that can actually improve those results.
And I think when you look at metrics in
that way, then you can really drive change
because everybody understands that we have
key performance metrics to tell us what's
happening or key performance indicators.
But ultimately it's the actions
that we take that change them.
And if we're optimizing those
(23:38):
actions all the time, then we
start to actually use metrics the
way that they're meant to be used.
And so as a leader, I think it's
most important to decide what
the overarching metrics are.
And then train the staff on what
those key performance actions are
that will actually get, that we're
looking for when we make some changes.
(23:59):
it.
I, those are who the metric is
the stat or the, the, the, the,
the slugging percentage, if
you're a baseball player, right?
That's the stat, right?
But how do you deep dive into
those action items to get your
stats higher or better or improved?
Right?
That's great.
Mark, I learned something new last year.
(24:21):
These, these three little words.
And I, last year when you mentioned
it, I'm like, I don't know.
I think he's crazy.
Like, what is he talking about?
And it took me a couple of times
to understand it, but these three
little words that I've heard over
and over and over, and you mentioned
it earlier, was revenue per hour.
(24:43):
And as I said, take a step back and
understand what that means to you and
your element team that has developed this.
It's fascinating and, and I use that
in a lot in my coaching sessions with
people, is that, that's fascinating.
Explain revenue per hour in your
(25:03):
term so our audience will, will
understand a little bit better
and, and how to improve that.
Yeah, so revenue per hour is a
really important metric in every
business because ultimately in the
landscape business, we can only
pay our staff a certain percentage.
Of the revenue, and so that tends to
(25:25):
be 25 to 30 percent of the revenue.
So if you're producing 75 per
hour, it's going to be really
difficult for you to pay more than
20 to 25 per hour for your staff.
And if you're making a 10 percent profit.
Then you're making like 7.
50 per hour off of that employee.
(25:48):
If you can find a way to increase
that revenue per hour, let's say to
150 per hour, twice that number that
I just mentioned, well, you've got a
lot more money to pay your employees
both, you know, by the hour and their
benefit packages and everything else.
And you've got a lot more
profit, twice the profit in
(26:10):
fact, for every hour of work.
But the best part is you also have
a lot more overhead being recovered
for every hour that you work.
So you recover your overhead faster, you
pay your staff more and you earn more
profit when you increase the revenue
that you produce with each hour worked.
And so often that happens with
(26:34):
estimating your work differently.
It happens by selling more
expensive materials on install jobs.
On maintenance, it comes from
actually finding a way to get more
material embedded into the, the
projects or more expensive services.
(26:55):
And so oftentimes selling a lot of
enhancements to existing maintenance
customers is a great way to increase
the average revenue per hour.
You know, some tasks are going to
be low revenue per hour, but when
you mix them with high revenue per
hour, It makes a big difference.
And so oftentimes, you know, it could
be as simple as with on a maintenance
(27:16):
account, trying to sell them mulch, trying
to get their turf maintenance account,
where there's some expensive fertilizer
could be, going back out to all of
your maintenance accounts and offering
landscape lighting and sound systems.
And when you actually end up blending.
The revenue with really strong
(27:39):
enhancement sales, the revenue
per hour comes up significantly.
And everybody's better off for it.
The business recovers its overhead
faster, makes more profit, and it
can pay its employees more money.
So I think it's a, it's a key metric
that is highly overlooked quite often.
And I think when you don't look at
(28:00):
revenue per hour enough, you end
up Selling a lot of low revenue
per hour work and not making time
for the higher revenue per hour.
And the business kind of, you know,
bumps and skips along the way it is.
But when I've seen people change
that focus, it's incredible to
(28:20):
see how their businesses change.
Yeah, I, I would, I would totally agree.
At the end of the day, you're
providing a key service to your clients
more than just mowing grass and.
When you can provide additional services
and higher revenue per hour you get to
make more money and pay your team more.
(28:41):
Speaking of paying your team more
you've been an advocate of paying
frontline people more and this thing
you call apprenticeship program, which
I absolutely love and what you're doing,
not, not just through LMN and Greenius,
although that, that has a big driving
(29:03):
force, but you have some bigger goals,
set to, to really make this industry,
very well known and very powerful,
no different than the electricians.
And the plumbers and the HVAC
industries out there to get landscape
up to a higher level of platform.
(29:26):
Explain what you're doing now and what
the future holds with this landscape
industry and this apprenticeship
program that you love to talk about.
Yeah, I mean, ultimately, I believe
that our industry has been slow
to adopt apprenticeship programs.
We have, national associations
in both Canada and the U.
S.
(29:46):
that have apprenticeship
programs, have certifications.
I think landscape business owners
have been slow to adopt because
there's not a lot of, mandatory
regulation around apprenticeship.
But I think that what I've seen is the
best companies, deploy apprenticeships
as part of their business plan.
And apprenticeships are a key tool
(30:09):
in growing a highly skilled workforce
because ultimately Apprenticeship
means training for the trades.
And what we're doing is we're providing
training, an organized training platform
for apprentices to come into the industry,
learn a trade and become certified.
(30:30):
And what that means for us
as, as business owners is.
We then have a pool of highly
skilled people to do the work
efficiently and with a high level
of quality and a level of safety.
And when we've got that type
of a workforce, businesses
can thrive in a few ways.
Number one, we can afford to pay our
(30:51):
staff a lot better wages because they know
how to do the work and they do it right
the first time and they do it safely.
And they do it the way our customers
are expecting them to do it because
they've been trained properly.
And I think that's why apprentices,
apprenticeships are, are so
important first and foremost.
But I also think as business owners.
We attract growth minded people when
(31:13):
we advertise for apprenticeships.
We just don't attract the great people
when we're advertising for laborers.
Unfortunately, we, we attract
people who have a low ceiling
or low beliefs in themselves.
And I think soon as we put that term
apprenticeship on the job title with
(31:34):
a sliding scale of wages that show
them what the future can look like,
we're going We attract better people.
And so I think if you were to compare us
to plumbers or carpenters or electricians,
the, the, the difference is the people
who apply to be an apprentice in one of
those trades is, has a different mindset.
(31:55):
They're looking for more out of life.
And so, and they believe
that they deserve more.
And so therefore they put more into
their day to day work and learning
so that they get more in the future.
And I think as an industry.
Once we adopt apprenticeships fully
and we lose the laborer titles, I think
what we're going to see is a much better
(32:17):
workforce and much better companies and
much, much better results for customers,
higher wages higher efficiency, better
quality, better customer service.
And it doesn't necessarily
mean higher costs.
When you're better and more efficient,
you can get better outcomes for everybody.
(32:38):
Without necessarily driving the cost up.
Yeah.
it's much needed in our industry for sure.
And if we have that mindset
as a business owner, that
that's what we need to produce.
It, It fascinates me still to hear
this day where like, if I, if these
words come out of the owner's mouth or
just, if I just find the right person.
(32:59):
If I could just hire that, that
awesome, amazing crew leader, if I
can just find that, and quite frankly,
Mark, so you shaking your head,
you're like more than likely those
people are within your organization.
One, they're, they're on your team.
You just don't know it yet.
And two, the law of attraction is states
(33:20):
that I'm going to produce this business.
that has good training, good quality
people so that they are people from
the outside are attracted to that
sort of mindset and that growth and
that want to do good mentality, right?
I, I think an apprenticeship program, when
you approach it as a business owner from
(33:41):
that standpoint, standpoint that I bring
really good people that may not have the
skill set yet, but I can get them to the
next level and you can have a good career.
That's why I'm focused on this
thing called career ladder, right?
I think you've mentioned that
in some of your talks, you know,
the course of years, talk about
the goodness of a career ladder.
(34:04):
Like when I, where am I going if I
jump on this team as a crew member?
Like, what does it mean?
it's almost the blind leading the
blind of not where, knowing where
you got to go on this company.
And I know you talk about this a lot.
Can you explain some of that a little bit?
Yeah, for sure.
Career ladder, I think is, is a
key component of growing people.
(34:24):
And so I believe that we should all have
goals to grow revenue and grow people.
Because we can't grow revenue
without growing people.
And so the career ladder is the
most important system that you
have in the business, because
the business can only grow.
If you're growing people and the
(34:46):
rate at which you grow people is a
direct reflection of your leadership.
And so when your business does not
have the right people in it, that
is a reflection of your leadership.
When you don't have the right people,
that's because you are not the leader
that attracts the right people yet.
And so I think when you have
(35:07):
a career ladder, that is
one of many systems needed.
To attract people in the sense that when
they hear about your business and they
get to your hiring website and they see
a career ladder, they see progression.
And as soon as they see
progression, there's a career there.
And that has to start
with apprenticeships.
(35:28):
I'll come into this
company and I'll accept.
That I'm going to make 60 percent
of the trades rate in year one,
but in year two, I'm going to
make 70 percent in year three.
I'm going to make 85 percent in year four.
I'll make a hundred percent.
And if I know what year four rate
is, then I've also, I can see that
(35:50):
my career is growing and I can
see where I'm headed for wages.
But then also, you know,
what happens beyond that?
What happens if I do become a
crew leader or a project manager?
Or what if I move into sales
or what if I move into a.
Executive role in this company.
And I think when you can really show
(36:12):
that opportunity on a, on a career,
board of some sort in your office,
on your website, everywhere that your
employees happen to look, then they
know that the opportunity exists.
But I think in most small businesses.
The opportunity only exists in the
owner's mind because others can't see it.
(36:36):
so I think having clarity and really
broadcasting your career opportunities,
a completely different type of
employee to your landscape company.
Good stuff, Mark.
So as we wrap this up, this has
been a great, great series so far.
Is there any one last bit, tidbit of
information you want to leave our audience
(36:57):
and we'll also get into another episode
too, what would be a followup after
this, but one last bit of information or
a takeaway that you can leave with us.
Yeah, I mean, I, I really think that,
focusing on creating a culture where
there is a career development program.
Where there are some clear goals
(37:18):
and there is a really clear method
to give feedback or to get feedback
as an employee in your company.
I think that's really ultimately
the system or the process
that many people are missing.
And this is, you know, where you, where
we set out earlier, you were asking what
(37:38):
systems and processes are important.
I think the overarching system and process
that is missing for most businesses is.
setting, key metrics, and a continuous
feedback loop so that people understand
what success looks like and how they're
doing in the business day to day.
Wow.
I love how we just tied
(37:59):
it all back together.
And, Sort of intentionally and
unintentionally at the same time.
That's great, you know, systems and
processes, but the most important
thing is goal setting, and taking
care of your people having career
paths and key performance indicators
and metrics and action items.
A whole bunch of wealth
(38:19):
of knowledge, Mark.
Once again, we'll have you on
here again, very soon, because I
know our audience is just feeding
for more information from you.
So we really appreciate you taking
the time out of your busy schedule
and, and being on our show.
All right.
Thanks for having me.
Ready to take the next step?
Download our free Profitability Scorecard
(38:40):
to quickly create your own baseline
financial assessment and uncover the
fastest ways to improve your business.
Just go to McFarlinStanford.com/scorecard
to get yours today To learn more about
McFarlin Stanford our best in class
peer groups and other services go to
our website at McFarlinStanford.com
And don't forget to follow us on
(39:00):
LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.
See you next time on the Roots of Success.
The Roots of Success podcast is
for the landscape professional
who's looking to up their game.
We've got a brain trust of experts to
help you nurture the roots of a successful
business and grow to the next level.
This is The Roots of Success.
Welcome to another episode
of Roots of Success Podcast.
And I'm your host, Tommy Cole.
(00:21):
And we have a great one
today, as we always do.
Our guests are awesome, We have the CEO
of LMN Mark Bradley on the show today.
Welcome Mark.
Yeah, thank you.
Glad to be here.
this goes way, way back.
I met Mark years ago.
He probably doesn't even know this.
But I'd say eight, 10 years
(00:42):
ago, I saw him speak at the NALP
event in Louisville, Kentucky.
And I was in the very back and I
said, man, that guy, that guy's,
guy's got something good to,
good to share with our industry.
He's got a good software.
It seemed like, and I was
fascinated by your story and
building your landscape company.
(01:02):
And I said, at some point
I'm going to meet that guy.
And years down the road, here we are
together on a, on a podcast and, our
paths have come across each other numerous
times over the last several years.
So I'm, I'm very excited
to have you on board.
Yeah, well, thanks for having me.
I really appreciate the invite
and yeah, excited to chat.
(01:22):
I'm definitely a fan of the podcast.
I've enjoyed listening to a lot
of the other episodes recently.
So, yeah.
Good to be here.
Good, So let's go way back, Mark.
let's talk about your sort of bringing
up into this world and you all the
side businesses and the startups of
as, as a young adult, but, but, but
(01:43):
Give us a little bit of background.
I've, I've heard the story a few times
and, attending some of your mastermind
sessions and just some small talk
here and there, but let's give our
audience kind of like a backstory of,
of where you were as a young adult.
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, I mean through my early, early
years, high school years, I was kind
of grew up in the countryside and
(02:04):
lived on an acreage and enjoyed enjoyed
working outside, just really loved
being out there, doing hard work.
And I think through my high
school years, I found myself.
You know, selling firewood and topsoil
and trees and doing small landscape
projects and just really took a lot
of a lot of enjoyment out of the
(02:26):
work itself and always enjoyed the
creativity and that side of things.
And as I went through high school,
I decided to enter the nuclear
industry as a, as an apprentice.
So right out of high school, I
did an apprenticeship as a steam
fitter and found that to be a, an
(02:47):
incredibly valuable experience.
I mean, it was great, good to learn the
trade skills, but also just to learn a
lot about organization, about, Estimating
project management, job costing.
I just, the, the experience
of working in that environment
was really, really valuable.
(03:07):
but I did find myself a little bit, maybe.
Tired of that type of environment a
little faster than I would have expected.
I found, you know, working indoors,
working in a union environment
with a, with a lot of people that,
you know, sort of had a, I would
say sort of a limited belief of,
(03:29):
of where they were going in life.
I just found myself.
a little bit tired and needed
something a little more refreshing.
And that's, that's what sort of
led me back into landscaping, just
getting outside and enjoying things.
Yeah.
it's all fascinating as a young
adult or as a kid of like looking
back in the past of all the small
(03:49):
things we did, what got us here.
I mean, my, for instance, I was.
Selling fireworks in Texas.
I was cleaning warehouses.
I was throwing, I was doing paper
route, you know, as a 14 year old kid
that didn't have a driver's license.
It's like all those things that happen
that you don't really know what's going
to take you has taken you to great places.
(04:12):
So working at the nuclear plant has kind
of kicked you off with your landscaping,
you know, career with estimating project
management, jobs, that sort of thing.
It's.
It's fascinating.
my mom and dad always said, well, you're
going to have to learn how to like
greet customers and work the register
at the same time in a firework stand.
And I'm like, I don't know how
this equates to life, but I guess,
(04:33):
sure, I'll, I'll figure it out.
But it equates to life a lot, right?
Yeah, it's so true.
I think everything is a building block.
You know, if, if you kind
of look at yourself as a.
You know, the ultimate in pattern
recognition, I think, as we are more and
more exposed to different things in our
careers and even in our personal lives.
(04:55):
I think they all kind of stack
up all these patterns become
part of a greater recipe.
And I think if you're clear on
your purpose, then you put those
patterns to work in different ways.
But yeah, no, I'm super thankful for.
My my time as an apprentice,
I learned a lot for sure.
But yeah, getting back to landscaping
was, was, was more natural for me.
(05:18):
And so as I kicked off the landscape
company, it, it grew really quickly.
We focused on design build and
landscape maintenance and, obviously,
being from Toronto, snow plowing
was a big part of the business.
And so as the business started to scale,
which it did grow fairly quickly, I, I was
pretty fortunate my 1st year in business.
(05:38):
I hit a 1M dollars in sales.
It was maybe fortunate and unfortunate
because I made a lot of mistakes, whether
it was learning the hard way on estimating
labor times or making bad decisions on.
Who to work for.
There was many but yeah, I think because
the business was scaling so quickly,
(05:59):
I just really had to focus a lot on.
Systems processes, I really tried to do
my best to, to really get job costing
dialed in as quickly as possible so
that I could really understand what
was working well and what wasn't.
And yeah, the business continued to grow.
So I guess about 10 years
(06:20):
into business, it was growing.
Very nicely, but I was definitely
starting to feel the, the pain that
I think many of us feel is, you
know, the efficiency starts to,
decay pretty badly and then quality.
And then there's safety issues, and then
there's morale issues and culture issues.
(06:40):
All these things start to pop up as you
scale the company and kind of tests.
The limits of your leadership.
And I certainly was finding, all of the
above, definitely lots of challenges
we as we were growing the business.
Yeah.
So tell me about, this is
just a fascinating take.
(07:01):
When you say the word systems and
processes, I feel like that's a
word that is being used in In our
industry to the most extreme when
people say that, but from you, Mark,
what, what does that mean to you?
Systems in processes?
it's such a big, word that
we all want to accomplish.
But at the end of the day, I feel like
(07:21):
we go to conferences and masterminds
and things, and we talk about, we
need to integrate systems process,
but then we go back to our office.
And our shop and we just kind of get
back involved in the same thing of
what we're just easy to do Like kind of
like the easy route and but what does
that mean systems and processes to you?
(07:41):
Yeah, that, that's a,
that's a great question.
And I, I really tend to agree that
sometimes people talk at such a high level
that people don't really, action anything.
And so the easiest way for me to
look at systems and processes is.
What are they for?
And ultimately, when you're in
business, I kind of look at it
(08:03):
from a pretty simple perspective.
I'm in business, to service a large group
of customers with a team of employees.
And so ultimately, my revenue depends
on being really good at what I do,
and the likelihood of actually making
any actual profit relies on being
(08:24):
really good at doing that work.
And so ultimately, the systems and
processes I have to attract more
business to the, to the company, and
then they need to allow us to create and
deliver what it is that we're selling
better than anybody else and do it in
a way where we can compete at average
(08:45):
pricing or competitive pricing, but
still earn a profit and still pay our
staff better wages than everybody else.
And so those systems and processes really.
Start to take on more meaning.
It's about optimizing my customers
and optimizing my employees so that
I have an optimal business outcome.
(09:05):
And so ultimately when you look at a
business and you think about what needs
to be done to really truly be the best
at attracting customers and building
people, you quickly realize that you need
to set some goals and then those goals
need strategies and supporting systems in
order for those things to actually happen.
(09:27):
In a repeatable way.
So the systems are all
about customers and people.
Yeah,
you know what's what's fascinating
to me is i've attended several of
your masterminds and and seen you
speak on various platforms and you
are really big on goals You setting
(09:47):
what we call smart goals and holding
yourself accountable to those goals,
adjusting those goals through life.
Managing the process and
the progress of those goals.
I, I feel like Mark, that has been
one of the biggest things that's
got to the platform that you are
now personally and professionally
(10:10):
is, is this big goal setting.
Can you talk about how that's made an
impact on, on you and your businesses?
Yeah, for sure.
Ultimately, like the way I kind of
look at goal setting is when we create
a mission for ourselves in life or
in, or for a business, that it's just
part of our life, I think once we
(10:32):
have a mission, then it becomes a lot
easier to set some goals short and
long term that allow us to actually
make that mission become a reality.
And so when we when we start to break
down a business and we think here's
our vision for, you know, 10 years from
(10:52):
now for the business, and here's our
mission, that's going to get us there.
I think the next step is really just.
Deciding on what the big
goals are for the business.
And so personally, I like to set
three to five goals each year
with supporting key results.
And then as a business, I like
to do the same and in business.
(11:13):
I think most businesses, the, the, the
overarching goals are fairly similar.
You know, we're usually.
We're going to grow revenue.
That's the goal for most businesses.
We're going to grow people.
That's gotta be a goal in most businesses.
Then we've got to grow our brand
so that people find out about us.
(11:35):
We need to provide.
The best customer experience possible
so that the customers are happy and they
keep coming back and they keep telling
everybody else about what we're doing.
And then last, we have to be efficient
at what we do, because if we're not
efficient and we can't do it competitively
and we can't pay our staff really well.
(11:57):
So those five goals for me are always kind
of the overarching goals for business.
And then what I'm doing
is creating three to five.
Key results for each of those goals
for every quarter so that we're always
moving the needle in those five areas.
We always have to be growing revenue.
We always have to be growing people.
(12:19):
We have to be growing the brand.
We have to be getting more efficient
and we have to be getting better
at servicing our customers.
So each quarter, if I'm constantly
evolving the business with a few
key initiatives that get us some
measurable improvement in each
one of those areas, then The
business just keeps getting better.
And ultimately I think that's
what life and business is about.
(12:41):
It's just, you know,
continuous improvement.
It's very fulfilling when you can
live in the moment and just see
what is getting better each day.
And I think.
When you design a goal setting
system with a supporting measuring
system, then all these other things
come into clarity much, much faster.
Love it.
(13:01):
You know, I think you hit the nail on
the head with continuous improvement.
A lot of times us as business owners,
especially in the landscape industry,
we are the worst about overthinking and
overanalyzing every single decision.
Whether it's the right one and the
wrong one and why and how come and the
(13:22):
weather and the labor and the sales.
And the operations and
the HR and the culture.
And should I do this?
And should I not do that?
Well, how come?
Well, why not?
And the ripe old age of software.
Is that software good?
Is it bad?
Why is it bad?
It's just, but at the end of the day, and
you would probably agree to this, Mark.
(13:43):
It's not the outcome.
It's about the journey, right?
It's this long journey of continuous
improvement along the way.
And I use the analogy of.
You know, chopping down a tree, right?
You're not going to hit it in one swing
and it's going to fall down, but the
continuous chopping every single day,
eventually the tree is going to fall.
Right.
(14:03):
And that's the part of the journey.
What, what type of things that you
have learned across your business
success so far in your personal
life about continuous improvement?
has got to where you are now.
Well, since you mentioned the ax in
the tree, that's my, one of my favorite
quotes, and I think we've shared this
before the Abraham Lincoln quote, my
(14:24):
favorite yeah, just to sharpen the ax.
If I can sharpen that ax that tree's
going to come down a whole lot easier.
And so ultimately I think like for me.
Along the way, what I, what
I tend to focus on are the
key metrics in the business.
And so when you understand what the
key metrics are, it becomes a lot
(14:47):
easier to measure the result of all
of these activities that you mentioned
that we might decide are important.
And I think ultimately what happens
is us business owners tend to be more
emotional than we need to be when
we don't have really good metrics.
(15:08):
Guide us.
And so what happens is sometimes
each day, depending on what issue is
in front of us, we start to react.
And the problem with that is, is when
you're kind of a reactive business
owner is you tend to overthink
all the little things and then you
overreact to the little things.
But when you're a little bit more metric
(15:30):
driven when you've got goals and you can
look at the actual results and look at
the metrics that tell a rational story.
Then even when you're in maybe a negative
emotional state and you're in a bad mood
or you're exhausted or somebody just upset
you or a customer called to complain about
a crew or whatever it happens to be, or
(15:50):
somebody just quit the worst thing, right?
Now you can go to the metrics and actually
just kind of see how things are going.
And take a rational look at the business.
And I think move forward with, with at
least some sort of, clarity instead of
an opinion or a mood that you're in.
(16:10):
And I think as business owners,
that's important, but it's also
important for everybody to.
In the business to have key metrics.
And I think when everybody in the
business understands what the key
metrics are, they know when they're
winning and when they're losing for
themselves, and they're less reliant on
somebody to come along and tell them.
That they're doing a good job.
(16:31):
And I'm all for, you know, positive
feedback, but the reality is oftentimes
we're busy and we don't talk often
enough and we don't give feedback often
enough and people don't understand that
they're actually doing a great job.
And when we put those metrics in
front of them and they understand what
success looks like, two things happen.
(16:53):
One, they can focus their efforts
and actually put effort into things
that are going to move the needle.
In the area that we need it moved.
And then secondly, they can feel
good about their day and be in the
moment and enjoy the success that
they're actually having at work.
And I think metrics that are tied to
(17:14):
goals just kind of create a winning
formula for everybody, because.
Everybody wants to get better when
they know what they're measuring.
And then everybody feels like
they're doing better when the success
is happening and it's rational.
So even in the worst day of the year,
everybody knows that you're still winning.
And I think that's pretty important.
(17:35):
All right.
Totally agree.
So some key metrics, Mark, are there
key metrics that you look at in, in,
you know, take our audience that are
all business owners, what, what are
some key metrics that they should be
looking at as far as the business?
That's part one question.
Part two is.
Sharing that information
(17:55):
with your team, right?
There's always that hesitation of sharing
too much or not enough, or are they
going to understand it or why should I
share all, there's all these overthinking
things of sharing metrics or sharing
knowledge and operational knowledge.
how do you go about all that?
(18:19):
That's a, that's a big question for sure.
And a good one.
So first off, I, the first
question was what metrics, And
this one I get all the time.
People ask me like, what
metrics should I be measuring?
And the truth is there's a lot of metrics
in every business, but the key metrics
(18:39):
are the ones to, to really focus on.
And so I think if you get some
key metrics and then you look
at some supporting metrics it
becomes a little bit more clear.
So what are the key metrics?
And so financial metrics.
We need some people metrics.
We need some sales metrics.
We need some, metrics related
(19:00):
to customer experience.
We need some metrics related to
marketing analytics and whatnot as well.
And so if you start to look and say, well,
we've got metrics for each major portion
of the business, what are the key ones?
And then once we have the key ones,
then we can kind of, you know, narrow
(19:22):
in on some of those more defined.
Supporting metrics separately.
So key metrics for me, for financial
health of the business, I want to
know the growth rate of the business.
Of course, I want to know the revenue.
I always want to understand what the
gross profit, the net profit, and then
(19:43):
a key metric that I really believe
in is revenue per hour, and so if I
understand those basic metrics as my
financial metrics, then it becomes
really easy for me to look at expenses.
On a more granular basis on
key ratios in the business.
And some of those key ratios
for me are the labor ratio, the
(20:05):
material relate ratio, equipment,
subcontractor and overhead ratios.
And once I know those ratios and I know
the gross profit, then it becomes much
easier for pricing and for day to day.
Job costing.
And so once I've got those key
financial metrics, then it's just
a matter of trickling those down.
(20:26):
And so for the frontline field staff,
it's going to be taken right down to
estimated versus actual hours, because
that's all they can really control.
They don't estimate the jobs.
They just execute the job.
So what we're doing is saying, here's
your production goal for the, for the
crew in revenue, and we're going to give
you enough work to hit that revenue goal.
(20:47):
Okay.
And all you need to do is hit the
numbers on estimated versus actual hours.
And we're going to we're
going to win together.
And so we take the financial top
line metrics and create a key metric
for every employee in the business.
And in the case of the field
staff, it would be estimated
versus our for sales staff.
(21:09):
It's going to be very different.
It's going to be, you know, the
proposed work volume and number of
estimates and proposals they have out.
Their close rate is
going to be a key metric.
And then the work that they've
closed year to date, along with
gross profit and revenue per hour.
And again, so we've got a small number
(21:29):
of metrics for every department that
keep tying back to the company goals.
And so we do the same
thing for every department.
And once everybody has a
key metric in a company.
Then everybody is aligned to
those top line financial goals.
And then we can really start to hammer in
on, driving real improvement in each of
(21:52):
those five areas that we've got goals that
are all tied back to one financial plan.
Wow.
I love how you started very
broad, big picture, right?
With this, with the sales.
Finance and the people that you get
very, very big on your key metrics.
And then below that, you start the
supporting key metrics and you start
(22:14):
diving into a little more detailed items.
That, that's, that's real
good for our audience.
'cause I think we can get sidetracked
of like, what are key metrics?
It's just, it's, it's also,
you know, a fancy word.
But people don't, I don't necessarily
understand what those are.
At the end of the day, it's great
to start high and kind of nose dive
(22:34):
detailed into those into those small
categories and find those work.
a key thing there is I always like
to say that there's key metrics,
which are super important, but
you have to also understand.
What the key performance actions are that
actually impact those metrics because
(22:55):
metrics, they're telling us a result.
But what we really need to focus
on is what key performance and we
take to really drive improvement.
And I think when you take the time
to explain the key metrics to your
staff, what you really need to
do at the same time is explain.
What the key performance actions are
(23:17):
that can actually improve those results.
And I think when you look at metrics in
that way, then you can really drive change
because everybody understands that we have
key performance metrics to tell us what's
happening or key performance indicators.
But ultimately it's the actions
that we take that change them.
And if we're optimizing those
(23:38):
actions all the time, then we
start to actually use metrics the
way that they're meant to be used.
And so as a leader, I think it's
most important to decide what
the overarching metrics are.
And then train the staff on what
those key performance actions are
that will actually get, that we're
looking for when we make some changes.
(23:59):
it.
I, those are who the metric is
the stat or the, the, the, the,
the slugging percentage, if
you're a baseball player, right?
That's the stat, right?
But how do you deep dive into
those action items to get your
stats higher or better or improved?
Right?
That's great.
Mark, I learned something new last year.
(24:21):
These, these three little words.
And I, last year when you mentioned
it, I'm like, I don't know.
I think he's crazy.
Like, what is he talking about?
And it took me a couple of times
to understand it, but these three
little words that I've heard over
and over and over, and you mentioned
it earlier, was revenue per hour.
(24:43):
And as I said, take a step back and
understand what that means to you and
your element team that has developed this.
It's fascinating and, and I use that
in a lot in my coaching sessions with
people, is that, that's fascinating.
Explain revenue per hour in your
(25:03):
term so our audience will, will
understand a little bit better
and, and how to improve that.
Yeah, so revenue per hour is a
really important metric in every
business because ultimately in the
landscape business, we can only
pay our staff a certain percentage.
Of the revenue, and so that tends to
(25:25):
be 25 to 30 percent of the revenue.
So if you're producing 75 per
hour, it's going to be really
difficult for you to pay more than
20 to 25 per hour for your staff.
And if you're making a 10 percent profit.
Then you're making like 7.
50 per hour off of that employee.
(25:48):
If you can find a way to increase
that revenue per hour, let's say to
150 per hour, twice that number that
I just mentioned, well, you've got a
lot more money to pay your employees
both, you know, by the hour and their
benefit packages and everything else.
And you've got a lot more
profit, twice the profit in
(26:10):
fact, for every hour of work.
But the best part is you also have
a lot more overhead being recovered
for every hour that you work.
So you recover your overhead faster, you
pay your staff more and you earn more
profit when you increase the revenue
that you produce with each hour worked.
And so often that happens with
(26:34):
estimating your work differently.
It happens by selling more
expensive materials on install jobs.
On maintenance, it comes from
actually finding a way to get more
material embedded into the, the
projects or more expensive services.
(26:55):
And so oftentimes selling a lot of
enhancements to existing maintenance
customers is a great way to increase
the average revenue per hour.
You know, some tasks are going to
be low revenue per hour, but when
you mix them with high revenue per
hour, It makes a big difference.
And so oftentimes, you know, it could
be as simple as with on a maintenance
(27:16):
account, trying to sell them mulch, trying
to get their turf maintenance account,
where there's some expensive fertilizer
could be, going back out to all of
your maintenance accounts and offering
landscape lighting and sound systems.
And when you actually end up blending.
The revenue with really strong
(27:39):
enhancement sales, the revenue
per hour comes up significantly.
And everybody's better off for it.
The business recovers its overhead
faster, makes more profit, and it
can pay its employees more money.
So I think it's a, it's a key metric
that is highly overlooked quite often.
And I think when you don't look at
(28:00):
revenue per hour enough, you end
up Selling a lot of low revenue
per hour work and not making time
for the higher revenue per hour.
And the business kind of, you know,
bumps and skips along the way it is.
But when I've seen people change
that focus, it's incredible to
(28:20):
see how their businesses change.
Yeah, I, I would, I would totally agree.
At the end of the day, you're
providing a key service to your clients
more than just mowing grass and.
When you can provide additional services
and higher revenue per hour you get to
make more money and pay your team more.
(28:41):
Speaking of paying your team more
you've been an advocate of paying
frontline people more and this thing
you call apprenticeship program, which
I absolutely love and what you're doing,
not, not just through LMN and Greenius,
although that, that has a big driving
(29:03):
force, but you have some bigger goals,
set to, to really make this industry,
very well known and very powerful,
no different than the electricians.
And the plumbers and the HVAC
industries out there to get landscape
up to a higher level of platform.
(29:26):
Explain what you're doing now and what
the future holds with this landscape
industry and this apprenticeship
program that you love to talk about.
Yeah, I mean, ultimately, I believe
that our industry has been slow
to adopt apprenticeship programs.
We have, national associations
in both Canada and the U.
S.
(29:46):
that have apprenticeship
programs, have certifications.
I think landscape business owners
have been slow to adopt because
there's not a lot of, mandatory
regulation around apprenticeship.
But I think that what I've seen is the
best companies, deploy apprenticeships
as part of their business plan.
And apprenticeships are a key tool
(30:09):
in growing a highly skilled workforce
because ultimately Apprenticeship
means training for the trades.
And what we're doing is we're providing
training, an organized training platform
for apprentices to come into the industry,
learn a trade and become certified.
(30:30):
And what that means for us
as, as business owners is.
We then have a pool of highly
skilled people to do the work
efficiently and with a high level
of quality and a level of safety.
And when we've got that type
of a workforce, businesses
can thrive in a few ways.
Number one, we can afford to pay our
(30:51):
staff a lot better wages because they know
how to do the work and they do it right
the first time and they do it safely.
And they do it the way our customers
are expecting them to do it because
they've been trained properly.
And I think that's why apprentices,
apprenticeships are, are so
important first and foremost.
But I also think as business owners.
We attract growth minded people when
(31:13):
we advertise for apprenticeships.
We just don't attract the great people
when we're advertising for laborers.
Unfortunately, we, we attract
people who have a low ceiling
or low beliefs in themselves.
And I think soon as we put that term
apprenticeship on the job title with
(31:34):
a sliding scale of wages that show
them what the future can look like,
we're going We attract better people.
And so I think if you were to compare us
to plumbers or carpenters or electricians,
the, the, the difference is the people
who apply to be an apprentice in one of
those trades is, has a different mindset.
(31:55):
They're looking for more out of life.
And so, and they believe
that they deserve more.
And so therefore they put more into
their day to day work and learning
so that they get more in the future.
And I think as an industry.
Once we adopt apprenticeships fully
and we lose the laborer titles, I think
what we're going to see is a much better
(32:17):
workforce and much better companies and
much, much better results for customers,
higher wages higher efficiency, better
quality, better customer service.
And it doesn't necessarily
mean higher costs.
When you're better and more efficient,
you can get better outcomes for everybody.
(32:38):
Without necessarily driving the cost up.
Yeah.
it's much needed in our industry for sure.
And if we have that mindset
as a business owner, that
that's what we need to produce.
It, It fascinates me still to hear
this day where like, if I, if these
words come out of the owner's mouth or
just, if I just find the right person.
(32:59):
If I could just hire that, that
awesome, amazing crew leader, if I
can just find that, and quite frankly,
Mark, so you shaking your head,
you're like more than likely those
people are within your organization.
One, they're, they're on your team.
You just don't know it yet.
And two, the law of attraction is states
(33:20):
that I'm going to produce this business.
that has good training, good quality
people so that they are people from
the outside are attracted to that
sort of mindset and that growth and
that want to do good mentality, right?
I, I think an apprenticeship program, when
you approach it as a business owner from
(33:41):
that standpoint, standpoint that I bring
really good people that may not have the
skill set yet, but I can get them to the
next level and you can have a good career.
That's why I'm focused on this
thing called career ladder, right?
I think you've mentioned that
in some of your talks, you know,
the course of years, talk about
the goodness of a career ladder.
(34:04):
Like when I, where am I going if I
jump on this team as a crew member?
Like, what does it mean?
it's almost the blind leading the
blind of not where, knowing where
you got to go on this company.
And I know you talk about this a lot.
Can you explain some of that a little bit?
Yeah, for sure.
Career ladder, I think is, is a
key component of growing people.
(34:24):
And so I believe that we should all have
goals to grow revenue and grow people.
Because we can't grow revenue
without growing people.
And so the career ladder is the
most important system that you
have in the business, because
the business can only grow.
If you're growing people and the
(34:46):
rate at which you grow people is a
direct reflection of your leadership.
And so when your business does not
have the right people in it, that
is a reflection of your leadership.
When you don't have the right people,
that's because you are not the leader
that attracts the right people yet.
And so I think when you have
(35:07):
a career ladder, that is
one of many systems needed.
To attract people in the sense that when
they hear about your business and they
get to your hiring website and they see
a career ladder, they see progression.
And as soon as they see
progression, there's a career there.
And that has to start
with apprenticeships.
(35:28):
I'll come into this
company and I'll accept.
That I'm going to make 60 percent
of the trades rate in year one,
but in year two, I'm going to
make 70 percent in year three.
I'm going to make 85 percent in year four.
I'll make a hundred percent.
And if I know what year four rate
is, then I've also, I can see that
(35:50):
my career is growing and I can
see where I'm headed for wages.
But then also, you know,
what happens beyond that?
What happens if I do become a
crew leader or a project manager?
Or what if I move into sales
or what if I move into a.
Executive role in this company.
And I think when you can really show
(36:12):
that opportunity on a, on a career,
board of some sort in your office,
on your website, everywhere that your
employees happen to look, then they
know that the opportunity exists.
But I think in most small businesses.
The opportunity only exists in the
owner's mind because others can't see it.
(36:36):
so I think having clarity and really
broadcasting your career opportunities,
a completely different type of
employee to your landscape company.
Good stuff, Mark.
So as we wrap this up, this has
been a great, great series so far.
Is there any one last bit, tidbit of
information you want to leave our audience
(36:57):
and we'll also get into another episode
too, what would be a followup after
this, but one last bit of information or
a takeaway that you can leave with us.
Yeah, I mean, I, I really think that,
focusing on creating a culture where
there is a career development program.
Where there are some clear goals
(37:18):
and there is a really clear method
to give feedback or to get feedback
as an employee in your company.
I think that's really ultimately
the system or the process
that many people are missing.
And this is, you know, where you, where
we set out earlier, you were asking what
(37:38):
systems and processes are important.
I think the overarching system and process
that is missing for most businesses is.
setting, key metrics, and a continuous
feedback loop so that people understand
what success looks like and how they're
doing in the business day to day.
Wow.
I love how we just tied
(37:59):
it all back together.
And, Sort of intentionally and
unintentionally at the same time.
That's great, you know, systems and
processes, but the most important
thing is goal setting, and taking
care of your people having career
paths and key performance indicators
and metrics and action items.
A whole bunch of wealth
(38:19):
of knowledge, Mark.
Once again, we'll have you on
here again, very soon, because I
know our audience is just feeding
for more information from you.
So we really appreciate you taking
the time out of your busy schedule
and, and being on our show.
All right.
Thanks for having me.
Ready to take the next step?
Download our free Profitability Scorecard
(38:40):
to quickly create your own baseline
financial assessment and uncover the
fastest ways to improve your business.
Just go to McFarlinStanford.com/scorecard
to get yours today To learn more about
McFarlin Stanford our best in class
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(39:00):
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See you next time on the Roots of Success.
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