April 23, 2025 • 60 mins
Hey there, fellow nerds! In this episode of Scene N Nerd, Sarah and Will get real about the emotional rollercoaster that is "The Last of Us," episode two of season two. They dive into Joel's shocking death and how it shakes Ellie to her core. The chemistry between Joel and Abby is intense, and the performances are nothing short of amazing!
As they chat, the hosts can’t help but reflect on the heart-pounding action, especially that nail-biting fence scene that keeps you glued to the screen. They dig into what drives these characters and the emotional stakes at play, highlighting how the show masterfully tackles themes of grief and revenge. Trust us, it’s a conversation you won’t want to miss!
But wait, there’s more! Sarah and Will also dish out some juicy updates from the recent Star Wars Celebration. They’re buzzing about all the upcoming projects and the return of some fan-favorite characters. Plus, they connect these exciting developments to their thoughts on "The Mandalorian" and what’s next for the franchise. (37:30)
To wrap things up, the hosts want to hear from you! They invite listeners to hit them up on social media and share your thoughts on all the latest buzz in TV and film. This episode is packed with insights and heartfelt moments, so don’t miss out!
0:00 Intro and thoughts on Sinners and The Pitt
11:20 Getting hyped for Fantastic Four
14:10 Star Wars Celebration recap
21:45 The Last of Us Episode 2 x 2 "Through the Valley"
Connect with us! Follow us on X, formerly known as Twitter, @SceneNNerd, Bluesky @SceneNNerd.bsky.social, Facebook, Instagram, and Threads @scene_n_nerd. Check out our website at www.scenennerdpodcast.com. If you’re loving the podcast, we’d really appreciate it if you could leave us a rating and a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast fix!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Will (00:00):
Foreign.
>> Sarah (00:09):
This is Scene N Nerd I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as always,
is our Mr. Producer, Will Paul. How are you doing tonight,
Will?
>> Will (00:16):
Doing very well, Sarah. It's a, Pedro Pascal
podcast tonight.
>> Sarah (00:22):
Yeah. So, I finished the
Pit over the weekend.
>> Will (00:27):
Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I
still need to start it. I still. And also I need to go see Sinners.
>> Sarah (00:34):
Well, I, I'm glad you brought that up because,
man, I feel like that has been more on my
feed and just like in the
zeitgeist leading up to, of
course, last or the other night when
Last of Us, aired. But even. Even with the
Last of Us, episode airing, I
felt like Sinners was like, on so many people's
(00:56):
minds and it even has my curiosity
peak where I'm like, hm, I'm tempted. I'm
tempted. And. And I know that
there's been a lot of stuff also to come
out about the specific deal that
Ryan Coogler had in place,
which is getting some backlash, from
(01:17):
the, from, the old
school.
>> Will (01:21):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:22):
Studios.
>> Will (01:23):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:24):
Because this deal was. Is kind of
unprecedented to an extent. if I
recall.
>> Will (01:30):
So does he get ownership rights? Is it after 25
years?
>> Sarah (01:33):
25 years, ownership rights
first, something about
like he. He doesn't
have to wait for the studio to make back their
money before he gets his part,
which, is another big deal. But. But there,
There are, There are a
(01:54):
handful of other filmmakers who have
ownership rights over certain
properties that they negotiated for.
>> Will (02:03):
Yeah, I think Quentin Tarantino has it for once, upon a
time.
>> Sarah (02:06):
Yes. Yes. Yeah, I feel like we
read or watched the same stories because
you're.
>> Will (02:14):
I was, I was. I was listening to a podcast
about, Well, again, like you said, centers is everywhere.
And yeah, I was, I was listening to the Higher Learning
podcast on, on the Ringer. And they were
talking about, Savannah Lathan who, who also like, does the
Midnight Boys and some other things. But,
But, yeah, they were talking about Sinners Today and they
(02:35):
were. They were talking about this very issue when I was listening to the
podcast when I was on my walk today.
>> Sarah (02:40):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, between that
and then Haley Steinfeld's
casting as well as her character,
I've been hearing a lot about that. I feel like at
this point, the
longer I'll wait, the more I'll basically,
whenever I do get around to seeing it, I'll have seen
(03:00):
the movie with the number of clips or piece things
together, because it's Just. It's just
everywhere. Which. Good on them.
>> Will (03:08):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (03:08):
Yeah, that's good. And I hear that it's a,
It's a story that opens up a world and there's
likely to be a sequel and
potentially even a TV show.
>> Will (03:20):
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's. It's great given
that, you know, we. We do spend the majority of
our time talking about, like, existing ip, so to
have an original story.
>> Sarah (03:30):
Absolutely.
>> Will (03:30):
it is. It's great. It's great. And, I know I. I think I
had either profiled this as far as, like,
I guess the 2025 black films back. Back in February
for, like, Black History Month. So. So, yeah,
so, you know, I. I had planned on seeing
it this weekend and just, you know, things happen. But,
yeah, I'm definitely gonna go check. Check it out this
(03:50):
weekend.
>> Sarah (03:51):
That's good. So back to, where I
started. I finished the Pit.
>> Will (03:57):
Yep. Sorry. No, no,
that's another thing in his, like, Geist as well.
>> Sarah (04:02):
So it. It really is. I mean,
it came out that 10 million viewers per
episode while it was airing, and
now the season has ended. Already in
production for season two. We already know
some things about season two, which will occur,
about six to nine months after the first season,
(04:23):
and it'll occur during the fourth of
July weekend.
I'm still. I was right before
we started recording, I was like, oh, yeah, I have to talk about the Pit.
Well, what do I say about the Pit?
Because was I.
Was I pretty engaged?
Yeah, I was for. For the most part,
(04:45):
engaged. At the same
time, I,
This isn't. When I. When.
When I say the words workplace
drama, what are a few shows that come to
mind? Will.
>> Will (05:04):
Workplace drama. That's, I will think
er.
>> Sarah (05:07):
I would think it doesn't have to be medical.
>> Will (05:10):
Okay. well, even though.
>> Sarah (05:13):
But just a workplace drama like ER
is one. But then you got your Chicago
Fires, you got
your Law and Orders, you got. Yeah, yeah,
you got, like, these procedural shows,
and then Grey's Anatomy, which is a soap
opera masked as a workplace
drama. Yeah,
(05:35):
I thought I understood the definition of a workplace
drama, and then I watched the Pit. The Pit is the
epitome of a workplace drama
because it is not a soap
opera. It
is not a soap opera.
It is also very
much just like
(05:59):
we. There are cameras in an
er and you're just watching
doctors do their thing and
patients come and go, events happen.
And of course, every now and then
there'll be, like, some backstory
about this doctor a little bit. But it's not,
it's, it's. No, it's not
(06:21):
really the same as
a whole episode focused on one doctor
dealing with this, like her
relationship with her husband and
balancing. No, it's none of that.
So, so it's, it's hard for me
because I can appreciate the
originality, especially in
(06:44):
terms of. And I know that there's been some
lawsuits about this being
basically a dupe of er. Er.
I did watch, like, I did
end up, because it was airing on TNT
and everything I've seen pretty much. I want
to say all of ER for the most part.
(07:07):
I, I think that it started
off kind of as a workplace drama
and then as it went on, it definitely became
a soap opera.
>> Will (07:16):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (07:17):
Yeah, it definitely did.
>> Will (07:20):
It's like NYPD Blue the same way. And, you know, any of those
procedurals back in the day, they do sort of. They did morph into
that.
>> Sarah (07:26):
Right. And I don't, I don't even know if
you can consider this a procedural
because like the, the
context is every episode is one hour
of a. One workday. You're just.
The entire 15 hours is one
workday. One shift, actually.
(07:47):
So it's, it's,
it is. I, I applaud the originality.
I, I am going to watch season
two when it comes out, but at the same
time I am still just
like, what can. I can. I fully.
I can. Obviously I enjoyed it. I wasn't
(08:07):
turned off by any, anything except for that
pregnancy, that birth episode. Just,
just as soon as you see a pregnant
woman enter the hospital in distress,
turn off your. You don't want
to see it, guys. You don't.
so anyways, I just, I just am
(08:29):
still kind of, kind of
wrapping my mind around my
feelings about this show. I, I liked
it, but I, I, it's, it's very
different.
I've. Did I lose you?
>> Will (08:47):
Well, no, I'm here, I'm here, I'm here. I
put it on, on mute because it's, allergy season here in North
Carolina, so, sometimes I had to sneeze a couple times.
>> Sarah (08:56):
It's okay. No worries. Yeah,
but, but, yeah, so, so that is my thoughts
on the pit. Whenever Will gets around to
it, which sometimes Will likes to do this thing
like what he did with the bear season two. He'll
wait.
>> Will (09:12):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (09:12):
An entire year before watching
something so he can get on the hype train with
the new season.
>> Will (09:19):
And that's what, that's what will probably happen. I do want to watch
it. My sister in law Works. she's. She's a
doctor and she does work in an emergency room. So I was. I was
mentioning it to my wife. I was like, is your interested in
anything about the pit? Because I, I want to see, you
know, someone who does work in the medical profession wanted to get their.
Their. Their take on it, so. And in particular
(09:40):
in that. In that. In that environment as well.
So, I'll get around to it. Yeah.
>> Sarah (09:45):
And their reactions to the episodes
on TikTok is what really led me to watching the
show. And probably another reason, like,
my real final thought on it
is I knew too much going in
because I had seen multiple
scenes and as they were playing out, I'm like,
okay, okay, I get the context now,
(10:07):
but, like, the. The
little beat of character,
moments were all spoiled for me.
So. So I really knew where
a lot of story. Storylines were going and a lot of
the stuff like the sequencing of events
(10:28):
kind of. But. But. And I will say
the last four episodes in particular,
I am so glad I was able to binge them.
And I, I, think that that's
why I, like, am interested in
season two, because I really liked how that
all, like, those last four episodes, it took
(10:49):
a while to get there, but I,
think that the culmination really,
paid off. so.
And then the other thing that I watched, which this is
a surprise because everyone knows how I feel about trailers these
days, so I did check out the
Fantastic Four trailer relatively shortly
(11:10):
after it came out last week.
mainly because I just wanted to see Silver Surface
Surfer who looks pretty bomb. I
kind of regret my decision, though, of watching the trailer, because
between that trailer and the previous trailer, I'm like,
okay, so now do we have the
complete movie? They
showed a lot of different things, in my opinion, in this
(11:33):
one. And so I'm like, okay,
yeah, yeah, we got.
>> Will (11:37):
Yeah, it was like the teaser. And then of course, this really was like
the. The official. The official
trailer. you know, we. You definitely get all the beats. We,
you know, we do get read. we actually do see re
Stretch and all that kind of stuff. So.
>> Sarah (11:51):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Will (11:55):
Yeah. The pregnancy of, of, as
well. But, you know, but, you know, of course they do.
I still. Even though, you know, they did carry forward the scene with
Herbie and. And thing from that. That,
that again, I. I still, like, channel the bear every
time. I, like, hear even my even
bus rock like, talk. Thing. Talk, talk about that. I'm like,
cousin. I just want him to say cousin once.
>> Sarah (12:19):
Yeah, yeah. Ever since
Daredevil aired, I've been seeing a lot
more clips of C from the Punisher
season one. And he was in. That actor was
also in that show. I
have the same, I have the same problem.
I'm just like, cousin, what are you doing
here?
>> Will (12:41):
Yeah, yeah, but so as I have the trailer
here for playing in the background while we're talking about it. It's like, you
know, the Silver Surfer. You know, they're the.
Of course there was a female
Silver Surfer out there. I know some people were having some issues with the gender
swap and that kind of stuff. I'm like, okay, get over it already.
But, know, I did like the, the Johnny Storm
(13:03):
moments. And and one of the things I really
did enjoy about the trailer too. of course we do get
the, you know, more with Galactus and,
and. And all. But also just the Bob. Just
the retro, vintage vibe that's going on
in you know, with this
alternate universe at their end. And I'm very curious to see how they're
(13:23):
going to like, bridge over to the primary, the
Prime MCU universe as well. But I
really did like the. Did like the whole vibe, that's going on, in
this, you know, in their city.
>> Sarah (13:34):
Yeah.
>> Will (13:35):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (13:36):
Very cool. All right,
so that brings us to
you, wanting. Wanting to do a Star Wars Celebration
recap.
>> Will (13:47):
Yeah. So Star Wars Celebration was
just in Japan this past weekend.
And of course, you know, the day is the day of Andor
season premiere, as well season two premiere, as
well as we record tonight. So I know a lot of people are probably
catching it and we'll start our reviews. Reviews
of it next, week. But yeah, there were
(14:08):
a couple things that did drop from the Star Wars
Celebration. First, of course, we did get the
Sean Levy
sure.
(14:30):
That we also got,
some
Mandalorian Roku. Oh, we got one last
May 2027. Of course, Mandalorian Grogu
are coming, on May next
next year. And they did show
a trailer, that
(14:54):
that at the event
that did not. It hasn't. I mean,
I think some states and stuff has like
bootleg footage did pop up online.
But But for folks who
haven't seen it, you know, they
did show
a scene from Mandalorian Grogu and I'm just
(15:17):
reading from the Hollywood Reporter description of it here. In the
heavy action footage, the audience sees snow troopers
inside at, ah, preparing to engage in battle. Then
what appears to be an homage to the opening of the
original 1977 movie in which rebels
prepared for and then were massacred by invading
stormtroopers. The Mandalorian cuts open the hall of the
atat, then in one continuous take
(15:40):
blast stabs Pyros and fights his way through the snow troopers,
making his way through the hall and then hallway
ending at the door of the cockpit which closes
quickly. The seals of Real also,
shows the mysterious character played by Sigourney Weaver speaking to
Mando and Grogu reminding Mando that
she. That he works for her. There's also some
more battle scenes, and also, Grogu
(16:02):
swimming underwater. The reel concludes with a brief look of
Jeremy Allen White, as wrote of the Hutt, the
son of the crime lord Jabba the Hutt, raised in his hands
to try up as some sort of fighting arena. And then cutting back
to Grogu eating what looks like to be popcorn, in
the Star Wars. Star wars version of the universe. So
yeah, so that was the things, that did drop
(16:22):
there, with Mandalorian Grogu. there was
also ah, you know, folks to have seen,
you know, this still photo of Pedro,
as. As Den without the helmet on. because we know
that he has him broken decreed
and he can, he can go helmetless now as far as in the
Mandalorian culture. Also there was
the news that Darth Maul is going to have
(16:45):
a new animated show that's going to premiere in
2026. Sam Witwer is returning
to voice Darth Maul. we
also got news about Ahsoka Season 2.
They're starting to film at the end, I think
end of this month, I think starting next week. and
they also had you know, there was a, you know, of course we
sadly lost Ray Stevenson, but Rory
(17:08):
McCann is stepping in to play, Balon.
Hayden Christensen is returning as
Anakin. apparently
there's gonna be a big showdown between Abbar, who we saw
in Return of the Jedi, and of course Thrawn was going to
be returning, also Star wars, the Ninth
Jedi, which was part of the season two of
(17:30):
Star Wars Visions, which I've watched some of. Star Wars Vision
is a, it's a I guess anime version
of the Star wars universe. But one of the episodes
in the second season is going to have a spin off for full
for a new series called the Ninth Jedi, which will go
into production soon. And then, we got the date
of, Star Wars Celebration 2027, which will be April
(17:50):
1 4, and it'll be back in the States
in Los Angeles. So those are some of the
highlights from, from Star wars, from, Star Wars Celebration,
that just happened this week.
>> Sarah (18:02):
All right, so before we move
into the Last of Us Season two, I,
I just, I'm curious, because we,
we, if I recall correctly, we share similar
sentiments about the Mandalorian
third season. are
you now, based on the information
(18:22):
that has come out about Mandalorian and
Grogu, on board with the movie?
Or are you still like. I don't
know.
>> Will (18:31):
I'm on board with the movie now.
>> Sarah (18:32):
Okay.
>> Will (18:33):
I think. Yeah, yeah. And actually John. And the question
did come to. Was, presented to John Favreau about whether
or not, there was going to be a fourth season after the movie.
And, and he,
didn't really answer it. He just said, you know, he did the usual. I'm
focusing on the movie right now, so.
So we'll see what happens if there's going to be anything back
(18:53):
on the Disney plus platform, after.
After the movie. But, But yeah, I think I, I.
From what I. One of the other things they did talk about
during Celebration that John Favreau did talk about
having the benefit of being a
feature film is the ability to do location
shoots, not rely on the volume so much. The,
(19:13):
budget, of course, even though, you know, obviously the
Mandalorian did have, in many sense, you
know, it has some cinema cinematic feels from
time to time, but there were a lot of times you could clearly tell they were on the sound
stage at the volume. See.
>> Sarah (19:27):
Yes. But that wasn't the problem I
had with it. I had more of a story
issues, specifically in the third
season.
>> Will (19:37):
Yeah. And the third season. Yeah. And I am
100% there. And a lot of that was, I think, due to
Pedro's, like, schedule, where Brendan Wayne
stepped in, for a lot of the scenes in that
third season. And, and the story really did just sort of
focus so much, you know, focus on the Mandalorian culture
and, and other aspects of it. I
(19:57):
just felt like it was. They were trying to do, like,
multiple stories and, and none of it seemed like a cohesive
hole, if I recall. It just didn't. It just, it didn't seem
inspired.
>> Sarah (20:07):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, clearly we're having a hard time
remembering what exactly happened in that third season.
And it's. I, Like, like there were other
issues leading into, like, the
whole, Boba of it all.
>> Will (20:20):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (20:21):
So. So, like. Like, I.
I just. I. That's just standard, movie
producer and writer. Oh. Now we get a bigger
budget, so it'll work. It's like. Well, you had some script
problems, so, like, are, you gonna.
>> Will (20:36):
Yeah. And.
>> Sarah (20:37):
And I can understand what you're saying about
Pedro not being in the suit the whole time,
but still, then that's just an acting thing. Like, at the end of
the day, they're the story beats work or they don't.
>> Will (20:48):
Right.
>> Sarah (20:48):
which actually is a good segue
into the Last of Us, Season two.
and disclaimer. We are talking spoilers.
If you're listening to this and
you are either wanting to know what
happens, then, okay, that's cool. I do that with
stuff all the time. But we're gonna tell you what
(21:10):
happens and share our thoughts about it.
of course. And this episode specifically
does contain spoilers because
Joel dies.
Will, we're gonna. I'm. I'm not
gonna. I don't want to go in chronicle logical
order with this, because I think
(21:31):
through the Valley. Know that that's
plain. Right?
>> Will (21:35):
yeah. My head isn't. Isn't it original?
I just wanted to.
>> Sarah (21:38):
Okay.
>> Will (21:39):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (21:39):
Okay. I just. I didn't know because
earlier I could barely hear what you were
saying over some of those. Those clips.
So I don't know, audio wise.
>> Will (21:50):
Okay.
>> Sarah (21:51):
Yeah, all that is working out. If that's.
I get that that was intentional, but it. Yeah,
I didn't. Okay, well, this
is cool. so, yeah, Will, why don't
you share your thoughts?
>> Will (22:05):
Yeah, so the,
It is full. Yeah, let's just. Let's just talk about the Joel a
bit. All, Joel. it worked for me, bottom
line. it did. You know, obviously, I. I
have seen the cut scenes and stuff, but, And
even it's funny, Sunday before
afternoon, you sent me a message and you're like,
(22:26):
yeah, we're, you know, here we go for the Last of Us. Another episode
of torture or something to that effect. Emotional
trauma. I think that's what you said. And, But.
But he didn't spoil anything for me because
I was just like, it's the last of us. Of course there's going to be
emotional trauma. and, And so as the
episode was happening, I was just like, okay, you know, we
(22:46):
got the We. We. Things are happening
and the whole siege of Jackson, and.
And then we get to that. We get to that moment and
it happens. And I. I had to sit
with it there for a moment, even though I knew
that it was coming. and,
but it, the scene
and we'll get into why it worked for me.
>> Sarah (23:08):
Ah.
>> Will (23:08):
As we discuss, you know, discuss the
whole Abby storyline in this
episode. but but yeah, it, I,
I, I
could understand, you know, and I think, and looking at the
IMDb score, I think overall,
whether you're familiar with the game or not, this like read
it like 9.5. So
(23:32):
for the, the episode to
me is definitely one of the best episodes of this
series. I know Bill, you know,
the one from the two episodes from episode
from season one still I think ranked higher for
me. the Bill episode. And then of course when
we see the, the brothers, but
(23:52):
this one is right up there with, right up there with them.
>> Sarah (23:57):
So when you say worked for you, what do
you mean?
>> Will (24:02):
The emotional gut punch
of of seeing essentially
Ellie's step, you know, you know,
surrogate father getting murdered her in
front of her. And I think it was the acting,
it wasn't so much. It was, it was, it was
Bella's and Ellie's
reaction and the things I've seen the
(24:24):
cutscene from the game because I never
played the game. But
when they translated it into the
television medium and just
the Ellie's
reaction, you know, whenever we see
Joel try, you know, when she's like, Joel, get up. You know,
that, that, that part of it,
(24:47):
whenever Joel tries to get
up, and then you know, and
then of course after
Abby drives the golf club through us, through his
neck, and we get them, you know, we
just get the moment of her just you
know, with Joel. This is, right,
this is, this is where I was just like, damn. I mean
(25:10):
I got, I was like this, this is the moment
where I was just like, yeah, I, I, I
I've got it, I've got this episode. I just got to sit with it for a
moment.
>> Sarah (25:20):
What about, what about
like, yeah, grief, pain,
sadness, overwhelming.
Then all of a sudden, I'm gonna kill
you. I'm gonna kill you. I'm gonna kill
you all. Were you
based on that performance.
(25:41):
Terrified of Ellie in that moment?
>> Will (25:44):
Yes.
>> Sarah (25:45):
Okay.
>> Will (25:45):
I was, I was. And, and they set it up.
And I think the thing that set up. Because I know last week when we talked
about episode one,
how, how Ellie's behavior
was just so extra as far as just
being the bratty 19 year old and everything
else and, and just you
know, trying to sort of independence and then you
(26:08):
know, when you think, you know, you. And then
we see that, and we see how. How
things end with, you know, with the. Whenever she.
After the dance and Joel sitting on the porch
and playing the guitar, and she just looks at him and. And
then, of course, when this episode starts, you know, she.
She's having the conversation with, Jamie,
(26:29):
about, you know, what. What had transpired at the
dance and, you know, Joel letting her sleep in instead of going out on
patrol. but. Yeah, but at the same time, they're like,
yeah, but we're cool. And so, you, know, it
was. It was a thing where I was like, okay,
whenever. Earlier in the episode, whenever she was talking to
Jamie about the events of what happened.
>> Sarah (26:48):
It's not Jamie. It's Jesse.
>> Will (26:49):
Sorry. Sorry.
Yeah, yeah, Jesse. Sorry, My bad.
but, hey, at least. At least I had a J name.
>> Sarah (26:58):
I know, I know. I. I, like, was gonna let it go,
but you. You kept bringing him up, and I'm.
>> Will (27:02):
Like, yeah, sorry,
Jesse. Yeah. Well, again, I mean. And I guess I'm just
like, Yeah, I'm just. Yeah, I mean, like I said, I
mean, I think it's just the. The emotion of the moment, thinking
about it and just,
Yeah, I mean, I think that's it. Just. Well, I
guess where I was going with that, with. With their conversation was
(27:24):
more did they.
As a viewer, I was like, did they
really have a moment afterwards where they
did have, you know, they did talk about it
and work through things or not? I
don't know. And. And. And so,
you know, so because of how
(27:45):
things were between them
and not knowing whether or not they did
have a moment to try to
make amends about things, it just. It just adds to the
whole. The whole experience as far as what we. What we see
and. And whenever Joel gets murdered by
Abby.
>> Sarah (28:03):
Yeah, yeah, that. That's. That's
true. And I agree. I agree
with that. I.
I still have a pro.
I wasn't terrified by Ellie in
that moment at all. I.
There. There. I think there was something awkward for
(28:23):
me about the timing. I think it.
Like, it. There was. There was
a. There was maybe a beat missed or something.
but I agree, like, I
really do appreciate Bella's performance,
like, walking into the room,
pulling the gun, getting kicked,
(28:45):
and then begging for him to get up.
And just. That whole thing did. Did really
work. I didn't cry. Will doesn't
like it when I say this, but I am dead inside.
So, And. And I have
seen all of the Cut scenes from season
two, years ago. And I'm so. I'm
feel familiar with where everything is going.
(29:07):
And, and I knew last week that they would
kill him in this week's episode.
but, I think,
I think something that's also overshadowing
me for, Or for
me, something that is overshadowing Bella's
performance in this sequence is,
(29:30):
Is, Caitlyn's performance,
as Abby.
and I want to focus on talking about
Abby because I
think, I've heard some mixed things.
Some people like the monologue, some people don't like
the monologue for very different reasons.
To me, that monologue was not
(29:52):
a villain mustache
twirling monologue that
was intentional writing
so you understand why
she's doing what she's doing. And also, more
importantly, the parallelism
and the creating a foil of
Ellie. Okay. He drops some very
(30:14):
important details. The
game did not have this monologue.
>> Will (30:20):
Nope.
>> Sarah (30:21):
Okay. They also. Last
week. I don't know if you remember this, Will, I
said I don't think they should have shown that scene of
Abby in that episode because
in the game, Abby comes out of left
field and then just kills
Joel. And you're like, what the.
(30:41):
So, so,
Abby here. And, and I,
and I think that. I
think this is all intentional, not
story wise. But more importantly, because
of the backlash that the actress
who played Abby in the game
got
(31:04):
for this whole thing, they
did not want Caitlyn to experience
that. So instead these
two episodes, they tried their best
to, to at least
give her some motivation that
makes sense. So she doesn't entirely come
(31:24):
out of left field. And even though,
yes, you hate her,
you also understand her.
>> Will (31:33):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think about. Yeah, I
mean, I think.
>> Sarah (31:38):
Yeah, yeah. I, I just wanted to drive
one more point home.
Is that. And when I say you understand
her, I think the. You
killed my father. Like,
yeah, yeah, that, that's something. But I
really liked that other. The build
up in the lead up to you killed an
(32:00):
unarmed doctor.
Like, and they even showed it like
you were doing you. Like you made a
choice like, this wasn't self
defense. This wasn't anything. You
left all the nurses, nurses alive
in that room, but you killed the
doctor.
>> Will (32:21):
Yep.
>> Sarah (32:22):
So, so. And. And the
consequences of it all is what we're
seeing played out. So
I just, I, I think the,
A, the writing there was really good,
but B, the,
the delivery. Because.
(32:43):
Because I know that a lot of people who,
who are familiar with the game and the story
are struggling With Abby because of the
size.
>> Will (32:52):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (32:53):
And, and, and I have to agree, I do
struggle with that. But then Caitlyn
delivers a performance like that, I'm like, well, I see why she, they
casted her.
>> Will (33:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she was, yeah, totally
get it, man. Originally she was going to be Ellie, but then, things
got, when they were going to make this as a movie and then it got
delayed and so she aged out. But
if she's completely the, the I
now talk about you. You asked the question, was I afraid of
Ellie? At that moment I was afraid
(33:23):
of Abby. I mean, you're right. I mean
the, the, the writing and the performance
just, you know, like you said when she was
listing off the 18 soldiers,
the one doctor,
just every, you know, I could, you
know, I could see why her, why
(33:44):
the rest of the fireflies that were with her
follow her. Because you know, some
people just have that it and she has
it right. You know, there's that intangible,
like they just have it, you know, you know, they
may not be the most physically imposing person, you know,
to your point about how the difference between
(34:05):
Abby and the game versus a TV show.
>> Sarah (34:07):
Right.
>> Will (34:08):
But she just, I, yeah,
as that scene was playing out, I was just like, oh man.
I, I was like, oh, she's,
I, I, I
was, yeah, I was fearful. And,
and, and she sold it. And she, and the, in the,
and the conviction of what she was
(34:29):
doing was on full display. And another
part of the scene too that I think,
was because as you noted, the m,
the monologue in, you know, since they did
tweak it from the game and made the monologue longer
on television. Yeah. you know,
I was wondering if there was ever going to be a moment other than Joel
(34:50):
saying and all this, you know, shut the up and get on with it
already. I was wondering if there was going to be some more
pushback, especially whenever she was going
into her, you know, her story about the
Doctor. But I think at the end of the day,
Joel, you know, because you know,
again, talk about, you know, referencing what we talked about last week
(35:11):
and even and before with season one, you
know, Joel knows what's special about
Ellie.
And they, and, and so
he had, you know, so yes, his
motivations in killing those folks was
selfish because he didn't want to lose another daughter again.
(35:31):
But at this, but he also
knows her secret that,
you know, that they, they have that other
people still clearly don't know about. Because you know, Ellie, in
the first episode, after she Got, attacked by the.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah. So, so he was still protecting
(35:52):
that secret, even, in his last moments.
>> Sarah (35:55):
Right, right. Yeah, that's, that's
fair. also, you bring up
the saving of Ellie, which
is mirrored in this episode by the saving of
Abby.
and. And I like
that I saved you.
And I wish that there was more of a
(36:17):
pause because I really think
that that moment when he says
that should have landed a bit
harder considering in
the first episode, the end of the
therapy session, the
therapist is asking the whole time, what did
you do to Ellie? And he says, I
(36:40):
saved her.
>> Will (36:41):
Yep.
>> Sarah (36:42):
Now, because that conversation
Ellie wasn't present to,
we don't know how she would respond to that or
what her argument would be, but
I think she would have a very similar
response to what Abby says. What
life? Yeah, you
(37:02):
saved me. What, like, good
on you. I don't have a life because for
five years I've been dragging around
this grudge and seeking vengeance on your
ass. So what are you talking about?
Like, thank you. Now I get to kill
you and fulfill something.
(37:23):
So you, ah, have that. You also,
like, she.
We learn that after the whole
massacre, she walks in and sees her
father, brains on the floor.
And she was 19 at the
time. Ellie is 19 in present
day. You have that.
(37:44):
But before,
the other thing. And, and I said this
last week and I don't think
people understood me. And I totally get why,
but I hope people are starting to follow me
a little bit closely now when I say
that therapy session is far more important than
(38:05):
you even realize. Because
there is also the moment in the
therapy session where we talk about
Eugene, who is a
character who. I think we might
get a flashback episode. The amount of
times we've talked about Eugene in that episode
and this episode, I'm just like, did you
(38:27):
guys do a random. This isn't a part of the
game, but a story that needs like. And we get to
bring back Pedro.
So. But, they bring up,
they bring up Eugene because
that is the therapist
dead husband who Joel had to
(38:48):
kill.
Again. And she says, I hate you.
And with a lot of venom. Catherine
O'Hare at her finest. And a lot of
hostility and anger. Very
similar to what Abby is doing. The
difference is you got an older woman,
(39:09):
a military trained person
who's like, at all costs I have to do
this. So
again, you have. In both of those
interactions, you have Joel
kind of come face to face with
people. Like,
it's interesting. He carries that torch for
(39:31):
Sarah. Right. His Daughter. His
biological daughter.
>> Will (39:36):
Yep.
>> Sarah (39:37):
He saves Ellie,
but by saving Ellie, he also
inadvertently pushes her further away from
him because of the lie.
And. And then you have these
two characters who
he. He took something away from them.
(39:58):
Just like the people in the first episode took
Sarah away from him.
He took Eugene and
Abby's dad away from them. So
it's just.
It's just really interesting
how they are.
(40:19):
this show and this story
deals with not only grief,
but also you're going through
the nine stages of grief, and some of us
get stuck at anger.
>> Will (40:33):
Yeah. Yes,
yes.
>> Sarah (40:37):
Because to your point, her.
Abby's followers,
they did not want to be there.
Owen even said he's like, my plan
is to convince her out of this. We're not going into
Jackson. And then luck has it, but even
(40:57):
when we. When we, come back and
the golf club is broken and all
you see is just her punching Joel in the face
and. And you can see the looks on their faces like they're
like, this should have ended
20 minutes ago. Ago.
>> Will (41:14):
Oh, yeah, yeah. And how they treated, you know, and
how they. With Dina as well. I mean, as far
as, another putting her
to sleep, which is another change from the game through the.
To the TV show M. But,
But yeah, yeah. And even after. Yeah. but then like when
Abby was just like, you know, put
her. You know, you know, whenever I think she
(41:36):
threatened the, the. The team's medic, you know, to do it or
she was gonna like, crack some heads anyway, so.
>> Sarah (41:42):
Oh, yeah. Like Abby was.
Do what I say. This is my
moment. Don't it up or I'll kill
you.
It's It was done very well
and I. I.
To kind of go into the siege
(42:04):
of it all that parallels,
the Joel's death. I
kind of. I kind of appreciate
how. How
we have also
this, siege of infected,
on Jackson occurred her. Because
(42:27):
I don't want to use the word
distraction, but
it just allowed this
episode to have
be because they couldn't have
stretched the Abby and Joel stuff out
any. Any further. Like, I feel like the
timing, the length of that whole sequence was.
(42:49):
Was good. especially just
how they inadvertently, because of the
patrols get come across her and
everything. So you have to have some sort
of action balancing it. That's what I'm
trying to get out. So. Which we
had. Now, I will admit
a lot of that time I spent thinking to
(43:12):
myself, man, I miss
Game of m Thrones season 5 with all of the
white walks Walker action beyond
the Wall. Because this just took me right
back there, Will.
>> Will (43:27):
Yeah, I saw. I saw that in the show notes and I was just
like, yeah, seriously. Yeah, yeah, I.
I laughed because, Because, you know, that
definitely didn't watch Drones, but I have, you know, again, seeing
cut scenes and stuff. I. You know, you can't be around,
without seeing that stuff. and also,
I also fault, the orcs in, And. And
(43:47):
the Lord of the Rings.
>> Sarah (43:49):
Yep.
>> Will (43:49):
As well. I mean, just any of those big, classic
set pieces where there's been, you know,
massive, Massive, Siege.
Siege, of. Of a. Of. Of a particular
place. But. Yeah, but you're right. I mean,
I think I didn't like the way. Because, you know, Jackson itself
has been a character in the show and. And
we, you know, and I really like the way they set things up, you
(44:12):
know, with, You know, they had the. Had the meeting,
you know, Tommy's, you know, did stay back.
you know, and they were starting to prep
because they had. Had. Had, you know,
concerns about some of the,
cordyceps. People. Infected people,
you know, encroaching. there was. I didn't
(44:33):
see. Now, didn't they have the. Didn't they, like, shoot
chair? Like.
>> Sarah (44:38):
And then Jesse
said something about. Gave
a justification for why they were doing that
drill in the morning.
>> Will (44:49):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (44:50):
And they stumbled upon something.
And, But. But. But it
goes. Technically, it goes back to the
end of last episode where that. There's that
pipe and the network that kind
of sounds off the alarm.
>> Will (45:08):
Yeah. But, Yeah, because I know they. Because I couldn't remember. M.
I know that, because they had the. Obviously the,
infected were like, using other bodies to, like,
keep themselves warm. and we see that later
when, of course, when Abby, like, stumbles upon it whenever
she's out in the. In the woods and stuff. And, you
know, of course they chase her, but you're, you know, but.
(45:29):
And of course, because it is a
hive network, whenever they did break
the pipe in this episode and it
messed with the, things that just set off the alarm. So, of course,
yeah, we just. Turks
proceeded to have everything happen that we saw
happen in this episode. And. And just seeing how
(45:51):
the people of Jackson, you know, just. They had the
drills as far as, like, going to the sellers and how. How the town
really had, like, fortified and was prepared for this
moment. but then to see it as it
happens and it's as it transpires.
and. And they get overrun.
and. And how the people react, like you know, the
flamethrower guys, you know, they were standing there with
(46:13):
Tommy, and then, you know, a couple of them ran off. I
mean, and. And. And just the tactics that
they discussed, like the high, you know, make sure don't be in the, you know,
high ground. But of course, that still wasn't safe because the quarter
steps still came in. I mean, it was just so many
things. So it was like you had two gut
punches going on at once, because you. You know,
we. Even though we haven't spent that much time
(46:36):
in Jackson, we spent enough time to understand the community
nature of it and. And. And how.
>> Sarah (46:42):
Yeah, well, I was just gonna say
we. I think what they did in this episode was
really so. And. And probably why
they. One of the reasons why I think
the change from the game worked is
that you really
focus so much on Tommy throughout this
entire sequence. And we're connected to
(47:04):
Tommy because we've known Tommy since day
one. and we know, like, Tommy's
important to us because Tommy's important to Joel and
Ellie. And, like,
you see him. And. And while you were
talking about everything, I just kept thinking about
the ending where Marie and
Tommy in the middle of town square,
(47:27):
like, embrace each other. And you see
Tommy break down. And it's just like,
we prepared. We. We had our
stuff, and yet they still got through, and
there's still all this death and carnage. And
it's, I mean, when you brought up the people who
ran away, it's. It's. It was.
I think why they showed that
(47:49):
moment of embrace between Marie and Tommy was
really like, to get. Get that
idea that these people were
prepared, yet they
were not prepared for the death and
destruction that would occur if this
happened.
>> Will (48:06):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (48:06):
so. So, like, the reality of
it, and then. And I.
And I'm glad that it's not like,
the editing of the episode would switch back and
forth too much.
>> Will (48:19):
Right.
>> Sarah (48:19):
It felt very clean that it's like,
no, we're gonna see this whole Jackson
sequence through, and then we're gonna
start. We're gonna return to the ski lodge.
Like, I think that the
editing of the different
storylines, was done
really, really well to
(48:40):
not make you get whiplash and to
arguably, like, okay, well, that's
a gut punch, granted, a small
one. And then now we're gonna really just
hit you in the face, with it,
which. Which is
like, some of you.
(49:01):
I. I hope you realize a lot of people back in
2020 experienced that
whole different level, and they
still had 20 hours of gameplay left.
Yep.
>> Will (49:15):
Yeah, yeah. But,
yeah, I'm glad you're right. I'm glad you brought that up too,
because, But they did one thing that they
did do, to weave the
two pieces together was the, the
moment, when they were back at the lodge. And then
Joel, you know, because they set up, you know, they bring in the
blizzard. I mean, everything about it just really, you know, set
(49:38):
up really well, because they have the blizzard, the radio, the
radio issues. And then, you know,
they finally, you know, and then the, and then we have the
moment there in the lodge and they're looking back and you're know. And about that
point, they have used the firebombs. And so you
see the, you know, Joel seeing that, and then, you know,
he's at his final moments at the same time. I mean, again, it was
just, I think, you know, getting back to like.
>> Sarah (50:01):
Yeah, sorry, but I want to point this
out. And so not to
rub salt in a wound or anything, but
he dies without knowing if
Tommy lives.
>> Will (50:13):
Yes.
>> Sarah (50:15):
Yeah, yeah. And, and,
and isn't that kind of how Joel started
on this whole course? He, yeah, he, he
was, he was protecting Ellie, but he
only came across Ellie because he was trying to get to Tommy.
>> Will (50:30):
He's trying to get to Tommy. Yeah.
>> Sarah (50:31):
Yeah.
>> Will (50:32):
Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that, and, and that's what I was going to say. I mean, and that's
why this episode was just so
impactful for me, because of all those
threads that they pulled together. So, yes,
the Joel death was clearly the moment that
everybody, at least that many people knew
about. Many people did not know about,
(50:54):
but people who look like me, who did know about it. But then how they
executed it in this medium and how they did it in this
episode, that's why it was so. The
whole thing. And I didn't really, you know, I really, I didn't want to get too much
into it when we were texting Sunday night. That's why this
episode just like, got me.
Because of all the. All, all of this is
(51:15):
really at the. Is why it just worked.
It just touched me on such a level and where I just like after
it was over, I just, like, I just sat in the chair. I
didn't cry. I just, just. It was just more, just more of
us. Like, wow. It was, it
was, it was. You know, whenever we were reviewing paradise and we
were talking about episode seven. Spoiler alert for, for
(51:35):
folks. but that was another one of
those TV shows because of the events that transpire in
it. You just sit afterwards and, And, and that's
where I was was with this episode.
>> Sarah (51:47):
I do want to say that,
my favorite action sequence of this
episode and arguably in
a long time, because I don't really
call out action sequences, was
the fence sequence.
>> Will (52:04):
Oh, yeah.
>> Sarah (52:05):
I thought the fence sequence was so great.
And I'm like, well, thank God she's not any
bigger. Because then I couldn't believe. And
yes, and yes, during that time I was like, how is
she not getting scratched at all? But then again,
but just for whatever reason,
I really liked Arguably just straight
(52:26):
when, when she's running away to climbing up the
ladder and then, and then she gets into that
fence and you're just like, okay. And then they come
and then like I was like, oh my God,
we're, we're still stuck in the fence.
And arguably it goes. But there's such an
intensity about it that I'm like, whoa.
>> Will (52:47):
Yeah, it was, I think there was a jump scare in that, in that
sequence. And it did, I did have, I did have that, I
did jump, during that, that fence sequence because I was like, oh
God. Yeah. I mean, this episode, again, it's like
works on so many levels that even if,
you know, even with the, with the Joel of it
all, there's still so many other things that like as you just referenced
(53:10):
with the fence sequence, I mean there's just so many things in it that just
make it such, just a, just a very powerful
hour of television.
>> Sarah (53:20):
I'm assuming because you've, you listened to
other things post watching the episode that,
what I'm about to say has been known, but
I'm curious if you recognized her voice.
But at the time of watching the episode, did you know
that that was Ashley Johnson who played Ellie in the
game, singing, that song?
>> Will (53:40):
I did not, but I obviously learned afterwards. Yeah,
and that was. Yeah, yeah. And I obviously tried play it
earlier, but I didn't, did not tell you with you in our
pre production meeting that I was going to do that.
>> Sarah (53:53):
no, no, he did not. And, and it threw me
off because I was just worried.
>> Will (53:58):
Yeah, I thought, yeah, I,
I, I thought about. Because I remember a comment you shared
with me one time wherever you're like, I thought you're gonna play a song, so I was going to
surprise you with it tonight.
>> Sarah (54:11):
but I, that
that touch was really clever and
really good for a few different reasons.
and I think that the lyrics of
that song are just,
just so important in terms of the themes
and the story that they are telling. Right.
(54:32):
Now, so.
So it, it's. Yeah,
they. Overall, this is a
really solid episode. I don't know if it's,
I have some qualms about it, but I'm. No, I
don't want to spoil. I don't want to get into my qualms about it
and be a Debbie Downer. I try to. I'm trying to
(54:52):
talk more positively about things. Guys.
>> Will (54:56):
No, no, no. I mean, I mean there were some things. Yeah,
there were, you know, there, there were some conveniences as
always, but. But at the end of the day they, they
removed, they removed the plot armor when, when, you know,
that, that many, people thought that honestly,
given that it was Pedro Pascal and he, you know, he is
the reason why a lot many people tune
(55:16):
into this show. you know,
they, you know, thought to your point,
they did not create a bunch of unnecessary
plot armor to, you know, to try to keep.
Keep their popular, star in the show. To, you
know, to again bring another Game of Thrones reference. you know,
it's hbo, so, you know, there's the net stark of it
(55:36):
all.
>> Sarah (55:38):
Yeah, they.
Yeah, I wasn't talking
about that. But, but yeah, anyways.
>> Will (55:47):
No, no, no, I'm just. I know you're not talking about that.
>> Sarah (55:49):
Yeah, no, no,
>> Will (55:55):
But I was. But that was one of. That was one I was gonna
say before we move on. That was one of my. I guess
that was when for me that I, I
fell into that camp, thinking, oh,
they are gonna keep. They're gonna stretch this out to, you know, it's a
seven episode season, so yeah, it'll probably happen. But I figured
it was gonna happen like episode four or five or, you
(56:16):
know, not necessarily like, because again, you
know, if only have seen cutscenes
and stuff and not played the game. You know,
it happens, but you don't necessarily
know when it happens in, you know, in, in the
game. so. So yeah, that's. That's
the danger. That's the, that's the danger of
(56:37):
sometimes knowing a little without knowing the context.
>> Sarah (56:40):
I only saw cutscenes.
>> Will (56:43):
I know, but. But
I'm not saying you. Sarah, I'm saying like,
I know you kn. But you know, it's like I'm just
like, you're okay, you're sounding like the person I read the book.
>> Sarah (56:58):
Yeah, yeah.
No, yeah. Anything
else before we go?
>> Will (57:05):
No, no. Yeah, I think we're
good.
>> Sarah (57:08):
I think we're good too. on that note,
Will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find
you.
>> Will (57:15):
Yeah, you can, you can find me on all the socials at, ah,
Will and Pope. W I l l mp o l.
>> Sarah (57:21):
K. please follow Arc. Please
follow me there, too, at S.J. belmont. Please follow our
crew on X, formerly known as Twitter at
Scene N Nerd on Blue sky at Scene N Nerd. Friend
us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads at Scene,
Underscore N, underscore Nerd and Visit our website,
www.uh, seniornerdpodcast.com.
but most importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple
(57:44):
Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast.
Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.
Foreign.
>> Sarah (00:09):
This is Scene N Nerd I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as always,
is our Mr. Producer, Will Paul. How are you doing tonight,
Will?
>> Will (00:16):
Doing very well, Sarah. It's a, Pedro Pascal
podcast tonight.
>> Sarah (00:22):
Yeah. So, I finished the
Pit over the weekend.
>> Will (00:27):
Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I
still need to start it. I still. And also I need to go see Sinners.
>> Sarah (00:34):
Well, I, I'm glad you brought that up because,
man, I feel like that has been more on my
feed and just like in the
zeitgeist leading up to, of
course, last or the other night when
Last of Us, aired. But even. Even with the
Last of Us, episode airing, I
felt like Sinners was like, on so many people's
(00:56):
minds and it even has my curiosity
peak where I'm like, hm, I'm tempted. I'm
tempted. And. And I know that
there's been a lot of stuff also to come
out about the specific deal that
Ryan Coogler had in place,
which is getting some backlash, from
(01:17):
the, from, the old
school.
>> Will (01:21):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:22):
Studios.
>> Will (01:23):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:24):
Because this deal was. Is kind of
unprecedented to an extent. if I
recall.
>> Will (01:30):
So does he get ownership rights? Is it after 25
years?
>> Sarah (01:33):
25 years, ownership rights
first, something about
like he. He doesn't
have to wait for the studio to make back their
money before he gets his part,
which, is another big deal. But. But there,
There are, There are a
(01:54):
handful of other filmmakers who have
ownership rights over certain
properties that they negotiated for.
>> Will (02:03):
Yeah, I think Quentin Tarantino has it for once, upon a
time.
>> Sarah (02:06):
Yes. Yes. Yeah, I feel like we
read or watched the same stories because
you're.
>> Will (02:14):
I was, I was. I was listening to a podcast
about, Well, again, like you said, centers is everywhere.
And yeah, I was, I was listening to the Higher Learning
podcast on, on the Ringer. And they were
talking about, Savannah Lathan who, who also like, does the
Midnight Boys and some other things. But,
But, yeah, they were talking about Sinners Today and they
(02:35):
were. They were talking about this very issue when I was listening to the
podcast when I was on my walk today.
>> Sarah (02:40):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, between that
and then Haley Steinfeld's
casting as well as her character,
I've been hearing a lot about that. I feel like at
this point, the
longer I'll wait, the more I'll basically,
whenever I do get around to seeing it, I'll have seen
(03:00):
the movie with the number of clips or piece things
together, because it's Just. It's just
everywhere. Which. Good on them.
>> Will (03:08):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (03:08):
Yeah, that's good. And I hear that it's a,
It's a story that opens up a world and there's
likely to be a sequel and
potentially even a TV show.
>> Will (03:20):
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's. It's great given
that, you know, we. We do spend the majority of
our time talking about, like, existing ip, so to
have an original story.
>> Sarah (03:30):
Absolutely.
>> Will (03:30):
it is. It's great. It's great. And, I know I. I think I
had either profiled this as far as, like,
I guess the 2025 black films back. Back in February
for, like, Black History Month. So. So, yeah,
so, you know, I. I had planned on seeing
it this weekend and just, you know, things happen. But,
yeah, I'm definitely gonna go check. Check it out this
(03:50):
weekend.
>> Sarah (03:51):
That's good. So back to, where I
started. I finished the Pit.
>> Will (03:57):
Yep. Sorry. No, no,
that's another thing in his, like, Geist as well.
>> Sarah (04:02):
So it. It really is. I mean,
it came out that 10 million viewers per
episode while it was airing, and
now the season has ended. Already in
production for season two. We already know
some things about season two, which will occur,
about six to nine months after the first season,
(04:23):
and it'll occur during the fourth of
July weekend.
I'm still. I was right before
we started recording, I was like, oh, yeah, I have to talk about the Pit.
Well, what do I say about the Pit?
Because was I.
Was I pretty engaged?
Yeah, I was for. For the most part,
(04:45):
engaged. At the same
time, I,
This isn't. When I. When.
When I say the words workplace
drama, what are a few shows that come to
mind? Will.
>> Will (05:04):
Workplace drama. That's, I will think
er.
>> Sarah (05:07):
I would think it doesn't have to be medical.
>> Will (05:10):
Okay. well, even though.
>> Sarah (05:13):
But just a workplace drama like ER
is one. But then you got your Chicago
Fires, you got
your Law and Orders, you got. Yeah, yeah,
you got, like, these procedural shows,
and then Grey's Anatomy, which is a soap
opera masked as a workplace
drama. Yeah,
(05:35):
I thought I understood the definition of a workplace
drama, and then I watched the Pit. The Pit is the
epitome of a workplace drama
because it is not a soap
opera. It
is not a soap opera.
It is also very
much just like
(05:59):
we. There are cameras in an
er and you're just watching
doctors do their thing and
patients come and go, events happen.
And of course, every now and then
there'll be, like, some backstory
about this doctor a little bit. But it's not,
it's, it's. No, it's not
(06:21):
really the same as
a whole episode focused on one doctor
dealing with this, like her
relationship with her husband and
balancing. No, it's none of that.
So, so it's, it's hard for me
because I can appreciate the
originality, especially in
(06:44):
terms of. And I know that there's been some
lawsuits about this being
basically a dupe of er. Er.
I did watch, like, I did
end up, because it was airing on TNT
and everything I've seen pretty much. I want
to say all of ER for the most part.
(07:07):
I, I think that it started
off kind of as a workplace drama
and then as it went on, it definitely became
a soap opera.
>> Will (07:16):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (07:17):
Yeah, it definitely did.
>> Will (07:20):
It's like NYPD Blue the same way. And, you know, any of those
procedurals back in the day, they do sort of. They did morph into
that.
>> Sarah (07:26):
Right. And I don't, I don't even know if
you can consider this a procedural
because like the, the
context is every episode is one hour
of a. One workday. You're just.
The entire 15 hours is one
workday. One shift, actually.
(07:47):
So it's, it's,
it is. I, I applaud the originality.
I, I am going to watch season
two when it comes out, but at the same
time I am still just
like, what can. I can. I fully.
I can. Obviously I enjoyed it. I wasn't
(08:07):
turned off by any, anything except for that
pregnancy, that birth episode. Just,
just as soon as you see a pregnant
woman enter the hospital in distress,
turn off your. You don't want
to see it, guys. You don't.
so anyways, I just, I just am
(08:29):
still kind of, kind of
wrapping my mind around my
feelings about this show. I, I liked
it, but I, I, it's, it's very
different.
I've. Did I lose you?
>> Will (08:47):
Well, no, I'm here, I'm here, I'm here. I
put it on, on mute because it's, allergy season here in North
Carolina, so, sometimes I had to sneeze a couple times.
>> Sarah (08:56):
It's okay. No worries. Yeah,
but, but, yeah, so, so that is my thoughts
on the pit. Whenever Will gets around to
it, which sometimes Will likes to do this thing
like what he did with the bear season two. He'll
wait.
>> Will (09:12):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (09:12):
An entire year before watching
something so he can get on the hype train with
the new season.
>> Will (09:19):
And that's what, that's what will probably happen. I do want to watch
it. My sister in law Works. she's. She's a
doctor and she does work in an emergency room. So I was. I was
mentioning it to my wife. I was like, is your interested in
anything about the pit? Because I, I want to see, you
know, someone who does work in the medical profession wanted to get their.
Their. Their take on it, so. And in particular
(09:40):
in that. In that. In that environment as well.
So, I'll get around to it. Yeah.
>> Sarah (09:45):
And their reactions to the episodes
on TikTok is what really led me to watching the
show. And probably another reason, like,
my real final thought on it
is I knew too much going in
because I had seen multiple
scenes and as they were playing out, I'm like,
okay, okay, I get the context now,
(10:07):
but, like, the. The
little beat of character,
moments were all spoiled for me.
So. So I really knew where
a lot of story. Storylines were going and a lot of
the stuff like the sequencing of events
(10:28):
kind of. But. But. And I will say
the last four episodes in particular,
I am so glad I was able to binge them.
And I, I, think that that's
why I, like, am interested in
season two, because I really liked how that
all, like, those last four episodes, it took
(10:49):
a while to get there, but I,
think that the culmination really,
paid off. so.
And then the other thing that I watched, which this is
a surprise because everyone knows how I feel about trailers these
days, so I did check out the
Fantastic Four trailer relatively shortly
(11:10):
after it came out last week.
mainly because I just wanted to see Silver Surface
Surfer who looks pretty bomb. I
kind of regret my decision, though, of watching the trailer, because
between that trailer and the previous trailer, I'm like,
okay, so now do we have the
complete movie? They
showed a lot of different things, in my opinion, in this
(11:33):
one. And so I'm like, okay,
yeah, yeah, we got.
>> Will (11:37):
Yeah, it was like the teaser. And then of course, this really was like
the. The official. The official
trailer. you know, we. You definitely get all the beats. We,
you know, we do get read. we actually do see re
Stretch and all that kind of stuff. So.
>> Sarah (11:51):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Will (11:55):
Yeah. The pregnancy of, of, as
well. But, you know, but, you know, of course they do.
I still. Even though, you know, they did carry forward the scene with
Herbie and. And thing from that. That,
that again, I. I still, like, channel the bear every
time. I, like, hear even my even
bus rock like, talk. Thing. Talk, talk about that. I'm like,
cousin. I just want him to say cousin once.
>> Sarah (12:19):
Yeah, yeah. Ever since
Daredevil aired, I've been seeing a lot
more clips of C from the Punisher
season one. And he was in. That actor was
also in that show. I
have the same, I have the same problem.
I'm just like, cousin, what are you doing
here?
>> Will (12:41):
Yeah, yeah, but so as I have the trailer
here for playing in the background while we're talking about it. It's like, you
know, the Silver Surfer. You know, they're the.
Of course there was a female
Silver Surfer out there. I know some people were having some issues with the gender
swap and that kind of stuff. I'm like, okay, get over it already.
But, know, I did like the, the Johnny Storm
(13:03):
moments. And and one of the things I really
did enjoy about the trailer too. of course we do get
the, you know, more with Galactus and,
and. And all. But also just the Bob. Just
the retro, vintage vibe that's going on
in you know, with this
alternate universe at their end. And I'm very curious to see how they're
(13:23):
going to like, bridge over to the primary, the
Prime MCU universe as well. But I
really did like the. Did like the whole vibe, that's going on, in
this, you know, in their city.
>> Sarah (13:34):
Yeah.
>> Will (13:35):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (13:36):
Very cool. All right,
so that brings us to
you, wanting. Wanting to do a Star Wars Celebration
recap.
>> Will (13:47):
Yeah. So Star Wars Celebration was
just in Japan this past weekend.
And of course, you know, the day is the day of Andor
season premiere, as well season two premiere, as
well as we record tonight. So I know a lot of people are probably
catching it and we'll start our reviews. Reviews
of it next, week. But yeah, there were
(14:08):
a couple things that did drop from the Star Wars
Celebration. First, of course, we did get the
Sean Levy
sure.
(14:30):
That we also got,
some
Mandalorian Roku. Oh, we got one last
May 2027. Of course, Mandalorian Grogu
are coming, on May next
next year. And they did show
a trailer, that
(14:54):
that at the event
that did not. It hasn't. I mean,
I think some states and stuff has like
bootleg footage did pop up online.
But But for folks who
haven't seen it, you know, they
did show
a scene from Mandalorian Grogu and I'm just
(15:17):
reading from the Hollywood Reporter description of it here. In the
heavy action footage, the audience sees snow troopers
inside at, ah, preparing to engage in battle. Then
what appears to be an homage to the opening of the
original 1977 movie in which rebels
prepared for and then were massacred by invading
stormtroopers. The Mandalorian cuts open the hall of the
atat, then in one continuous take
(15:40):
blast stabs Pyros and fights his way through the snow troopers,
making his way through the hall and then hallway
ending at the door of the cockpit which closes
quickly. The seals of Real also,
shows the mysterious character played by Sigourney Weaver speaking to
Mando and Grogu reminding Mando that
she. That he works for her. There's also some
more battle scenes, and also, Grogu
(16:02):
swimming underwater. The reel concludes with a brief look of
Jeremy Allen White, as wrote of the Hutt, the
son of the crime lord Jabba the Hutt, raised in his hands
to try up as some sort of fighting arena. And then cutting back
to Grogu eating what looks like to be popcorn, in
the Star Wars. Star wars version of the universe. So
yeah, so that was the things, that did drop
(16:22):
there, with Mandalorian Grogu. there was
also ah, you know, folks to have seen,
you know, this still photo of Pedro,
as. As Den without the helmet on. because we know
that he has him broken decreed
and he can, he can go helmetless now as far as in the
Mandalorian culture. Also there was
the news that Darth Maul is going to have
(16:45):
a new animated show that's going to premiere in
2026. Sam Witwer is returning
to voice Darth Maul. we
also got news about Ahsoka Season 2.
They're starting to film at the end, I think
end of this month, I think starting next week. and
they also had you know, there was a, you know, of course we
sadly lost Ray Stevenson, but Rory
(17:08):
McCann is stepping in to play, Balon.
Hayden Christensen is returning as
Anakin. apparently
there's gonna be a big showdown between Abbar, who we saw
in Return of the Jedi, and of course Thrawn was going to
be returning, also Star wars, the Ninth
Jedi, which was part of the season two of
(17:30):
Star Wars Visions, which I've watched some of. Star Wars Vision
is a, it's a I guess anime version
of the Star wars universe. But one of the episodes
in the second season is going to have a spin off for full
for a new series called the Ninth Jedi, which will go
into production soon. And then, we got the date
of, Star Wars Celebration 2027, which will be April
(17:50):
1 4, and it'll be back in the States
in Los Angeles. So those are some of the
highlights from, from Star wars, from, Star Wars Celebration,
that just happened this week.
>> Sarah (18:02):
All right, so before we move
into the Last of Us Season two, I,
I just, I'm curious, because we,
we, if I recall correctly, we share similar
sentiments about the Mandalorian
third season. are
you now, based on the information
(18:22):
that has come out about Mandalorian and
Grogu, on board with the movie?
Or are you still like. I don't
know.
>> Will (18:31):
I'm on board with the movie now.
>> Sarah (18:32):
Okay.
>> Will (18:33):
I think. Yeah, yeah. And actually John. And the question
did come to. Was, presented to John Favreau about whether
or not, there was going to be a fourth season after the movie.
And, and he,
didn't really answer it. He just said, you know, he did the usual. I'm
focusing on the movie right now, so.
So we'll see what happens if there's going to be anything back
(18:53):
on the Disney plus platform, after.
After the movie. But, But yeah, I think I, I.
From what I. One of the other things they did talk about
during Celebration that John Favreau did talk about
having the benefit of being a
feature film is the ability to do location
shoots, not rely on the volume so much. The,
(19:13):
budget, of course, even though, you know, obviously the
Mandalorian did have, in many sense, you
know, it has some cinema cinematic feels from
time to time, but there were a lot of times you could clearly tell they were on the sound
stage at the volume. See.
>> Sarah (19:27):
Yes. But that wasn't the problem I
had with it. I had more of a story
issues, specifically in the third
season.
>> Will (19:37):
Yeah. And the third season. Yeah. And I am
100% there. And a lot of that was, I think, due to
Pedro's, like, schedule, where Brendan Wayne
stepped in, for a lot of the scenes in that
third season. And, and the story really did just sort of
focus so much, you know, focus on the Mandalorian culture
and, and other aspects of it. I
(19:57):
just felt like it was. They were trying to do, like,
multiple stories and, and none of it seemed like a cohesive
hole, if I recall. It just didn't. It just, it didn't seem
inspired.
>> Sarah (20:07):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, clearly we're having a hard time
remembering what exactly happened in that third season.
And it's. I, Like, like there were other
issues leading into, like, the
whole, Boba of it all.
>> Will (20:20):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (20:21):
So. So, like. Like, I.
I just. I. That's just standard, movie
producer and writer. Oh. Now we get a bigger
budget, so it'll work. It's like. Well, you had some script
problems, so, like, are, you gonna.
>> Will (20:36):
Yeah. And.
>> Sarah (20:37):
And I can understand what you're saying about
Pedro not being in the suit the whole time,
but still, then that's just an acting thing. Like, at the end of
the day, they're the story beats work or they don't.
>> Will (20:48):
Right.
>> Sarah (20:48):
which actually is a good segue
into the Last of Us, Season two.
and disclaimer. We are talking spoilers.
If you're listening to this and
you are either wanting to know what
happens, then, okay, that's cool. I do that with
stuff all the time. But we're gonna tell you what
(21:10):
happens and share our thoughts about it.
of course. And this episode specifically
does contain spoilers because
Joel dies.
Will, we're gonna. I'm. I'm not
gonna. I don't want to go in chronicle logical
order with this, because I think
(21:31):
through the Valley. Know that that's
plain. Right?
>> Will (21:35):
yeah. My head isn't. Isn't it original?
I just wanted to.
>> Sarah (21:38):
Okay.
>> Will (21:39):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (21:39):
Okay. I just. I didn't know because
earlier I could barely hear what you were
saying over some of those. Those clips.
So I don't know, audio wise.
>> Will (21:50):
Okay.
>> Sarah (21:51):
Yeah, all that is working out. If that's.
I get that that was intentional, but it. Yeah,
I didn't. Okay, well, this
is cool. so, yeah, Will, why don't
you share your thoughts?
>> Will (22:05):
Yeah, so the,
It is full. Yeah, let's just. Let's just talk about the Joel a
bit. All, Joel. it worked for me, bottom
line. it did. You know, obviously, I. I
have seen the cut scenes and stuff, but, And
even it's funny, Sunday before
afternoon, you sent me a message and you're like,
(22:26):
yeah, we're, you know, here we go for the Last of Us. Another episode
of torture or something to that effect. Emotional
trauma. I think that's what you said. And, But.
But he didn't spoil anything for me because
I was just like, it's the last of us. Of course there's going to be
emotional trauma. and, And so as the
episode was happening, I was just like, okay, you know, we
(22:46):
got the We. We. Things are happening
and the whole siege of Jackson, and.
And then we get to that. We get to that moment and
it happens. And I. I had to sit
with it there for a moment, even though I knew
that it was coming. and,
but it, the scene
and we'll get into why it worked for me.
>> Sarah (23:08):
Ah.
>> Will (23:08):
As we discuss, you know, discuss the
whole Abby storyline in this
episode. but but yeah, it, I,
I, I
could understand, you know, and I think, and looking at the
IMDb score, I think overall,
whether you're familiar with the game or not, this like read
it like 9.5. So
(23:32):
for the, the episode to
me is definitely one of the best episodes of this
series. I know Bill, you know,
the one from the two episodes from episode
from season one still I think ranked higher for
me. the Bill episode. And then of course when
we see the, the brothers, but
(23:52):
this one is right up there with, right up there with them.
>> Sarah (23:57):
So when you say worked for you, what do
you mean?
>> Will (24:02):
The emotional gut punch
of of seeing essentially
Ellie's step, you know, you know,
surrogate father getting murdered her in
front of her. And I think it was the acting,
it wasn't so much. It was, it was, it was
Bella's and Ellie's
reaction and the things I've seen the
(24:24):
cutscene from the game because I never
played the game. But
when they translated it into the
television medium and just
the Ellie's
reaction, you know, whenever we see
Joel try, you know, when she's like, Joel, get up. You know,
that, that, that part of it,
(24:47):
whenever Joel tries to get
up, and then you know, and
then of course after
Abby drives the golf club through us, through his
neck, and we get them, you know, we
just get the moment of her just you
know, with Joel. This is, right,
this is, this is where I was just like, damn. I mean
(25:10):
I got, I was like this, this is the moment
where I was just like, yeah, I, I, I
I've got it, I've got this episode. I just got to sit with it for a
moment.
>> Sarah (25:20):
What about, what about
like, yeah, grief, pain,
sadness, overwhelming.
Then all of a sudden, I'm gonna kill
you. I'm gonna kill you. I'm gonna kill
you all. Were you
based on that performance.
(25:41):
Terrified of Ellie in that moment?
>> Will (25:44):
Yes.
>> Sarah (25:45):
Okay.
>> Will (25:45):
I was, I was. And, and they set it up.
And I think the thing that set up. Because I know last week when we talked
about episode one,
how, how Ellie's behavior
was just so extra as far as just
being the bratty 19 year old and everything
else and, and just you
know, trying to sort of independence and then you
(26:08):
know, when you think, you know, you. And then
we see that, and we see how. How
things end with, you know, with the. Whenever she.
After the dance and Joel sitting on the porch
and playing the guitar, and she just looks at him and. And
then, of course, when this episode starts, you know, she.
She's having the conversation with, Jamie,
(26:29):
about, you know, what. What had transpired at the
dance and, you know, Joel letting her sleep in instead of going out on
patrol. but. Yeah, but at the same time, they're like,
yeah, but we're cool. And so, you, know, it
was. It was a thing where I was like, okay,
whenever. Earlier in the episode, whenever she was talking to
Jamie about the events of what happened.
>> Sarah (26:48):
It's not Jamie. It's Jesse.
>> Will (26:49):
Sorry. Sorry.
Yeah, yeah, Jesse. Sorry, My bad.
but, hey, at least. At least I had a J name.
>> Sarah (26:58):
I know, I know. I. I, like, was gonna let it go,
but you. You kept bringing him up, and I'm.
>> Will (27:02):
Like, yeah, sorry,
Jesse. Yeah. Well, again, I mean. And I guess I'm just
like, Yeah, I'm just. Yeah, I mean, like I said, I
mean, I think it's just the. The emotion of the moment, thinking
about it and just,
Yeah, I mean, I think that's it. Just. Well, I
guess where I was going with that, with. With their conversation was
(27:24):
more did they.
As a viewer, I was like, did they
really have a moment afterwards where they
did have, you know, they did talk about it
and work through things or not? I
don't know. And. And. And so,
you know, so because of how
(27:45):
things were between them
and not knowing whether or not they did
have a moment to try to
make amends about things, it just. It just adds to the
whole. The whole experience as far as what we. What we see
and. And whenever Joel gets murdered by
Abby.
>> Sarah (28:03):
Yeah, yeah, that. That's. That's
true. And I agree. I agree
with that. I.
I still have a pro.
I wasn't terrified by Ellie in
that moment at all. I.
There. There. I think there was something awkward for
(28:23):
me about the timing. I think it.
Like, it. There was. There was
a. There was maybe a beat missed or something.
but I agree, like, I
really do appreciate Bella's performance,
like, walking into the room,
pulling the gun, getting kicked,
(28:45):
and then begging for him to get up.
And just. That whole thing did. Did really
work. I didn't cry. Will doesn't
like it when I say this, but I am dead inside.
So, And. And I have
seen all of the Cut scenes from season
two, years ago. And I'm so. I'm
feel familiar with where everything is going.
(29:07):
And, and I knew last week that they would
kill him in this week's episode.
but, I think,
I think something that's also overshadowing
me for, Or for
me, something that is overshadowing Bella's
performance in this sequence is,
(29:30):
Is, Caitlyn's performance,
as Abby.
and I want to focus on talking about
Abby because I
think, I've heard some mixed things.
Some people like the monologue, some people don't like
the monologue for very different reasons.
To me, that monologue was not
(29:52):
a villain mustache
twirling monologue that
was intentional writing
so you understand why
she's doing what she's doing. And also, more
importantly, the parallelism
and the creating a foil of
Ellie. Okay. He drops some very
(30:14):
important details. The
game did not have this monologue.
>> Will (30:20):
Nope.
>> Sarah (30:21):
Okay. They also. Last
week. I don't know if you remember this, Will, I
said I don't think they should have shown that scene of
Abby in that episode because
in the game, Abby comes out of left
field and then just kills
Joel. And you're like, what the.
(30:41):
So, so,
Abby here. And, and I,
and I think that. I
think this is all intentional, not
story wise. But more importantly, because
of the backlash that the actress
who played Abby in the game
got
(31:04):
for this whole thing, they
did not want Caitlyn to experience
that. So instead these
two episodes, they tried their best
to, to at least
give her some motivation that
makes sense. So she doesn't entirely come
(31:24):
out of left field. And even though,
yes, you hate her,
you also understand her.
>> Will (31:33):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think about. Yeah, I
mean, I think.
>> Sarah (31:38):
Yeah, yeah. I, I just wanted to drive
one more point home.
Is that. And when I say you understand
her, I think the. You
killed my father. Like,
yeah, yeah, that, that's something. But I
really liked that other. The build
up in the lead up to you killed an
(32:00):
unarmed doctor.
Like, and they even showed it like
you were doing you. Like you made a
choice like, this wasn't self
defense. This wasn't anything. You
left all the nurses, nurses alive
in that room, but you killed the
doctor.
>> Will (32:21):
Yep.
>> Sarah (32:22):
So, so. And. And the
consequences of it all is what we're
seeing played out. So
I just, I, I think the,
A, the writing there was really good,
but B, the,
the delivery. Because.
(32:43):
Because I know that a lot of people who,
who are familiar with the game and the story
are struggling With Abby because of the
size.
>> Will (32:52):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (32:53):
And, and, and I have to agree, I do
struggle with that. But then Caitlyn
delivers a performance like that, I'm like, well, I see why she, they
casted her.
>> Will (33:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she was, yeah, totally
get it, man. Originally she was going to be Ellie, but then, things
got, when they were going to make this as a movie and then it got
delayed and so she aged out. But
if she's completely the, the I
now talk about you. You asked the question, was I afraid of
Ellie? At that moment I was afraid
(33:23):
of Abby. I mean, you're right. I mean
the, the, the writing and the performance
just, you know, like you said when she was
listing off the 18 soldiers,
the one doctor,
just every, you know, I could, you
know, I could see why her, why
(33:44):
the rest of the fireflies that were with her
follow her. Because you know, some
people just have that it and she has
it right. You know, there's that intangible,
like they just have it, you know, you know, they
may not be the most physically imposing person, you know,
to your point about how the difference between
(34:05):
Abby and the game versus a TV show.
>> Sarah (34:07):
Right.
>> Will (34:08):
But she just, I, yeah,
as that scene was playing out, I was just like, oh man.
I, I was like, oh, she's,
I, I, I
was, yeah, I was fearful. And,
and, and she sold it. And she, and the, in the,
and the conviction of what she was
(34:29):
doing was on full display. And another
part of the scene too that I think,
was because as you noted, the m,
the monologue in, you know, since they did
tweak it from the game and made the monologue longer
on television. Yeah. you know,
I was wondering if there was ever going to be a moment other than Joel
(34:50):
saying and all this, you know, shut the up and get on with it
already. I was wondering if there was going to be some more
pushback, especially whenever she was going
into her, you know, her story about the
Doctor. But I think at the end of the day,
Joel, you know, because you know,
again, talk about, you know, referencing what we talked about last week
(35:11):
and even and before with season one, you
know, Joel knows what's special about
Ellie.
And they, and, and so
he had, you know, so yes, his
motivations in killing those folks was
selfish because he didn't want to lose another daughter again.
(35:31):
But at this, but he also
knows her secret that,
you know, that they, they have that other
people still clearly don't know about. Because you know, Ellie, in
the first episode, after she Got, attacked by the.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah. So, so he was still protecting
(35:52):
that secret, even, in his last moments.
>> Sarah (35:55):
Right, right. Yeah, that's, that's
fair. also, you bring up
the saving of Ellie, which
is mirrored in this episode by the saving of
Abby.
and. And I like
that I saved you.
And I wish that there was more of a
(36:17):
pause because I really think
that that moment when he says
that should have landed a bit
harder considering in
the first episode, the end of the
therapy session, the
therapist is asking the whole time, what did
you do to Ellie? And he says, I
(36:40):
saved her.
>> Will (36:41):
Yep.
>> Sarah (36:42):
Now, because that conversation
Ellie wasn't present to,
we don't know how she would respond to that or
what her argument would be, but
I think she would have a very similar
response to what Abby says. What
life? Yeah, you
(37:02):
saved me. What, like, good
on you. I don't have a life because for
five years I've been dragging around
this grudge and seeking vengeance on your
ass. So what are you talking about?
Like, thank you. Now I get to kill
you and fulfill something.
(37:23):
So you, ah, have that. You also,
like, she.
We learn that after the whole
massacre, she walks in and sees her
father, brains on the floor.
And she was 19 at the
time. Ellie is 19 in present
day. You have that.
(37:44):
But before,
the other thing. And, and I said this
last week and I don't think
people understood me. And I totally get why,
but I hope people are starting to follow me
a little bit closely now when I say
that therapy session is far more important than
(38:05):
you even realize. Because
there is also the moment in the
therapy session where we talk about
Eugene, who is a
character who. I think we might
get a flashback episode. The amount of
times we've talked about Eugene in that episode
and this episode, I'm just like, did you
(38:27):
guys do a random. This isn't a part of the
game, but a story that needs like. And we get to
bring back Pedro.
So. But, they bring up,
they bring up Eugene because
that is the therapist
dead husband who Joel had to
(38:48):
kill.
Again. And she says, I hate you.
And with a lot of venom. Catherine
O'Hare at her finest. And a lot of
hostility and anger. Very
similar to what Abby is doing. The
difference is you got an older woman,
(39:09):
a military trained person
who's like, at all costs I have to do
this. So
again, you have. In both of those
interactions, you have Joel
kind of come face to face with
people. Like,
it's interesting. He carries that torch for
(39:31):
Sarah. Right. His Daughter. His
biological daughter.
>> Will (39:36):
Yep.
>> Sarah (39:37):
He saves Ellie,
but by saving Ellie, he also
inadvertently pushes her further away from
him because of the lie.
And. And then you have these
two characters who
he. He took something away from them.
(39:58):
Just like the people in the first episode took
Sarah away from him.
He took Eugene and
Abby's dad away from them. So
it's just.
It's just really interesting
how they are.
(40:19):
this show and this story
deals with not only grief,
but also you're going through
the nine stages of grief, and some of us
get stuck at anger.
>> Will (40:33):
Yeah. Yes,
yes.
>> Sarah (40:37):
Because to your point, her.
Abby's followers,
they did not want to be there.
Owen even said he's like, my plan
is to convince her out of this. We're not going into
Jackson. And then luck has it, but even
(40:57):
when we. When we, come back and
the golf club is broken and all
you see is just her punching Joel in the face
and. And you can see the looks on their faces like they're
like, this should have ended
20 minutes ago. Ago.
>> Will (41:14):
Oh, yeah, yeah. And how they treated, you know, and
how they. With Dina as well. I mean, as far
as, another putting her
to sleep, which is another change from the game through the.
To the TV show M. But,
But yeah, yeah. And even after. Yeah. but then like when
Abby was just like, you know, put
her. You know, you know, whenever I think she
(41:36):
threatened the, the. The team's medic, you know, to do it or
she was gonna like, crack some heads anyway, so.
>> Sarah (41:42):
Oh, yeah. Like Abby was.
Do what I say. This is my
moment. Don't it up or I'll kill
you.
It's It was done very well
and I. I.
To kind of go into the siege
(42:04):
of it all that parallels,
the Joel's death. I
kind of. I kind of appreciate
how. How
we have also
this, siege of infected,
on Jackson occurred her. Because
(42:27):
I don't want to use the word
distraction, but
it just allowed this
episode to have
be because they couldn't have
stretched the Abby and Joel stuff out
any. Any further. Like, I feel like the
timing, the length of that whole sequence was.
(42:49):
Was good. especially just
how they inadvertently, because of the
patrols get come across her and
everything. So you have to have some sort
of action balancing it. That's what I'm
trying to get out. So. Which we
had. Now, I will admit
a lot of that time I spent thinking to
(43:12):
myself, man, I miss
Game of m Thrones season 5 with all of the
white walks Walker action beyond
the Wall. Because this just took me right
back there, Will.
>> Will (43:27):
Yeah, I saw. I saw that in the show notes and I was just
like, yeah, seriously. Yeah, yeah, I.
I laughed because, Because, you know, that
definitely didn't watch Drones, but I have, you know, again, seeing
cut scenes and stuff. I. You know, you can't be around,
without seeing that stuff. and also,
I also fault, the orcs in, And. And
(43:47):
the Lord of the Rings.
>> Sarah (43:49):
Yep.
>> Will (43:49):
As well. I mean, just any of those big, classic
set pieces where there's been, you know,
massive, Massive, Siege.
Siege, of. Of a. Of. Of a particular
place. But. Yeah, but you're right. I mean,
I think I didn't like the way. Because, you know, Jackson itself
has been a character in the show and. And
we, you know, and I really like the way they set things up, you
(44:12):
know, with, You know, they had the. Had the meeting,
you know, Tommy's, you know, did stay back.
you know, and they were starting to prep
because they had. Had. Had, you know,
concerns about some of the,
cordyceps. People. Infected people,
you know, encroaching. there was. I didn't
(44:33):
see. Now, didn't they have the. Didn't they, like, shoot
chair? Like.
>> Sarah (44:38):
And then Jesse
said something about. Gave
a justification for why they were doing that
drill in the morning.
>> Will (44:49):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (44:50):
And they stumbled upon something.
And, But. But. But it
goes. Technically, it goes back to the
end of last episode where that. There's that
pipe and the network that kind
of sounds off the alarm.
>> Will (45:08):
Yeah. But, Yeah, because I know they. Because I couldn't remember. M.
I know that, because they had the. Obviously the,
infected were like, using other bodies to, like,
keep themselves warm. and we see that later
when, of course, when Abby, like, stumbles upon it whenever
she's out in the. In the woods and stuff. And, you
know, of course they chase her, but you're, you know, but.
(45:29):
And of course, because it is a
hive network, whenever they did break
the pipe in this episode and it
messed with the, things that just set off the alarm. So, of course,
yeah, we just. Turks
proceeded to have everything happen that we saw
happen in this episode. And. And just seeing how
(45:51):
the people of Jackson, you know, just. They had the
drills as far as, like, going to the sellers and how. How the town
really had, like, fortified and was prepared for this
moment. but then to see it as it
happens and it's as it transpires.
and. And they get overrun.
and. And how the people react, like you know, the
flamethrower guys, you know, they were standing there with
(46:13):
Tommy, and then, you know, a couple of them ran off. I
mean, and. And. And just the tactics that
they discussed, like the high, you know, make sure don't be in the, you know,
high ground. But of course, that still wasn't safe because the quarter
steps still came in. I mean, it was just so many
things. So it was like you had two gut
punches going on at once, because you. You know,
we. Even though we haven't spent that much time
(46:36):
in Jackson, we spent enough time to understand the community
nature of it and. And. And how.
>> Sarah (46:42):
Yeah, well, I was just gonna say
we. I think what they did in this episode was
really so. And. And probably why
they. One of the reasons why I think
the change from the game worked is
that you really
focus so much on Tommy throughout this
entire sequence. And we're connected to
(47:04):
Tommy because we've known Tommy since day
one. and we know, like, Tommy's
important to us because Tommy's important to Joel and
Ellie. And, like,
you see him. And. And while you were
talking about everything, I just kept thinking about
the ending where Marie and
Tommy in the middle of town square,
(47:27):
like, embrace each other. And you see
Tommy break down. And it's just like,
we prepared. We. We had our
stuff, and yet they still got through, and
there's still all this death and carnage. And
it's, I mean, when you brought up the people who
ran away, it's. It's. It was.
I think why they showed that
(47:49):
moment of embrace between Marie and Tommy was
really like, to get. Get that
idea that these people were
prepared, yet they
were not prepared for the death and
destruction that would occur if this
happened.
>> Will (48:06):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (48:06):
so. So, like, the reality of
it, and then. And I.
And I'm glad that it's not like,
the editing of the episode would switch back and
forth too much.
>> Will (48:19):
Right.
>> Sarah (48:19):
It felt very clean that it's like,
no, we're gonna see this whole Jackson
sequence through, and then we're gonna
start. We're gonna return to the ski lodge.
Like, I think that the
editing of the different
storylines, was done
really, really well to
(48:40):
not make you get whiplash and to
arguably, like, okay, well, that's
a gut punch, granted, a small
one. And then now we're gonna really just
hit you in the face, with it,
which. Which is
like, some of you.
(49:01):
I. I hope you realize a lot of people back in
2020 experienced that
whole different level, and they
still had 20 hours of gameplay left.
Yep.
>> Will (49:15):
Yeah, yeah. But,
yeah, I'm glad you're right. I'm glad you brought that up too,
because, But they did one thing that they
did do, to weave the
two pieces together was the, the
moment, when they were back at the lodge. And then
Joel, you know, because they set up, you know, they bring in the
blizzard. I mean, everything about it just really, you know, set
(49:38):
up really well, because they have the blizzard, the radio, the
radio issues. And then, you know,
they finally, you know, and then the, and then we have the
moment there in the lodge and they're looking back and you're know. And about that
point, they have used the firebombs. And so you
see the, you know, Joel seeing that, and then, you know,
he's at his final moments at the same time. I mean, again, it was
just, I think, you know, getting back to like.
>> Sarah (50:01):
Yeah, sorry, but I want to point this
out. And so not to
rub salt in a wound or anything, but
he dies without knowing if
Tommy lives.
>> Will (50:13):
Yes.
>> Sarah (50:15):
Yeah, yeah. And, and,
and isn't that kind of how Joel started
on this whole course? He, yeah, he, he
was, he was protecting Ellie, but he
only came across Ellie because he was trying to get to Tommy.
>> Will (50:30):
He's trying to get to Tommy. Yeah.
>> Sarah (50:31):
Yeah.
>> Will (50:32):
Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that, and, and that's what I was going to say. I mean, and that's
why this episode was just so
impactful for me, because of all those
threads that they pulled together. So, yes,
the Joel death was clearly the moment that
everybody, at least that many people knew
about. Many people did not know about,
(50:54):
but people who look like me, who did know about it. But then how they
executed it in this medium and how they did it in this
episode, that's why it was so. The
whole thing. And I didn't really, you know, I really, I didn't want to get too much
into it when we were texting Sunday night. That's why this
episode just like, got me.
Because of all the. All, all of this is
(51:15):
really at the. Is why it just worked.
It just touched me on such a level and where I just like after
it was over, I just, like, I just sat in the chair. I
didn't cry. I just, just. It was just more, just more of
us. Like, wow. It was, it
was, it was. You know, whenever we were reviewing paradise and we
were talking about episode seven. Spoiler alert for, for
(51:35):
folks. but that was another one of
those TV shows because of the events that transpire in
it. You just sit afterwards and, And, and that's
where I was was with this episode.
>> Sarah (51:47):
I do want to say that,
my favorite action sequence of this
episode and arguably in
a long time, because I don't really
call out action sequences, was
the fence sequence.
>> Will (52:04):
Oh, yeah.
>> Sarah (52:05):
I thought the fence sequence was so great.
And I'm like, well, thank God she's not any
bigger. Because then I couldn't believe. And
yes, and yes, during that time I was like, how is
she not getting scratched at all? But then again,
but just for whatever reason,
I really liked Arguably just straight
(52:26):
when, when she's running away to climbing up the
ladder and then, and then she gets into that
fence and you're just like, okay. And then they come
and then like I was like, oh my God,
we're, we're still stuck in the fence.
And arguably it goes. But there's such an
intensity about it that I'm like, whoa.
>> Will (52:47):
Yeah, it was, I think there was a jump scare in that, in that
sequence. And it did, I did have, I did have that, I
did jump, during that, that fence sequence because I was like, oh
God. Yeah. I mean, this episode, again, it's like
works on so many levels that even if,
you know, even with the, with the Joel of it
all, there's still so many other things that like as you just referenced
(53:10):
with the fence sequence, I mean there's just so many things in it that just
make it such, just a, just a very powerful
hour of television.
>> Sarah (53:20):
I'm assuming because you've, you listened to
other things post watching the episode that,
what I'm about to say has been known, but
I'm curious if you recognized her voice.
But at the time of watching the episode, did you know
that that was Ashley Johnson who played Ellie in the
game, singing, that song?
>> Will (53:40):
I did not, but I obviously learned afterwards. Yeah,
and that was. Yeah, yeah. And I obviously tried play it
earlier, but I didn't, did not tell you with you in our
pre production meeting that I was going to do that.
>> Sarah (53:53):
no, no, he did not. And, and it threw me
off because I was just worried.
>> Will (53:58):
Yeah, I thought, yeah, I,
I, I thought about. Because I remember a comment you shared
with me one time wherever you're like, I thought you're gonna play a song, so I was going to
surprise you with it tonight.
>> Sarah (54:11):
but I, that
that touch was really clever and
really good for a few different reasons.
and I think that the lyrics of
that song are just,
just so important in terms of the themes
and the story that they are telling. Right.
(54:32):
Now, so.
So it, it's. Yeah,
they. Overall, this is a
really solid episode. I don't know if it's,
I have some qualms about it, but I'm. No, I
don't want to spoil. I don't want to get into my qualms about it
and be a Debbie Downer. I try to. I'm trying to
(54:52):
talk more positively about things. Guys.
>> Will (54:56):
No, no, no. I mean, I mean there were some things. Yeah,
there were, you know, there, there were some conveniences as
always, but. But at the end of the day they, they
removed, they removed the plot armor when, when, you know,
that, that many, people thought that honestly,
given that it was Pedro Pascal and he, you know, he is
the reason why a lot many people tune
(55:16):
into this show. you know,
they, you know, thought to your point,
they did not create a bunch of unnecessary
plot armor to, you know, to try to keep.
Keep their popular, star in the show. To, you
know, to again bring another Game of Thrones reference. you know,
it's hbo, so, you know, there's the net stark of it
(55:36):
all.
>> Sarah (55:38):
Yeah, they.
Yeah, I wasn't talking
about that. But, but yeah, anyways.
>> Will (55:47):
No, no, no, I'm just. I know you're not talking about that.
>> Sarah (55:49):
Yeah, no, no,
>> Will (55:55):
But I was. But that was one of. That was one I was gonna
say before we move on. That was one of my. I guess
that was when for me that I, I
fell into that camp, thinking, oh,
they are gonna keep. They're gonna stretch this out to, you know, it's a
seven episode season, so yeah, it'll probably happen. But I figured
it was gonna happen like episode four or five or, you
(56:16):
know, not necessarily like, because again, you
know, if only have seen cutscenes
and stuff and not played the game. You know,
it happens, but you don't necessarily
know when it happens in, you know, in, in the
game. so. So yeah, that's. That's
the danger. That's the, that's the danger of
(56:37):
sometimes knowing a little without knowing the context.
>> Sarah (56:40):
I only saw cutscenes.
>> Will (56:43):
I know, but. But
I'm not saying you. Sarah, I'm saying like,
I know you kn. But you know, it's like I'm just
like, you're okay, you're sounding like the person I read the book.
>> Sarah (56:58):
Yeah, yeah.
No, yeah. Anything
else before we go?
>> Will (57:05):
No, no. Yeah, I think we're
good.
>> Sarah (57:08):
I think we're good too. on that note,
Will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find
you.
>> Will (57:15):
Yeah, you can, you can find me on all the socials at, ah,
Will and Pope. W I l l mp o l.
>> Sarah (57:21):
K. please follow Arc. Please
follow me there, too, at S.J. belmont. Please follow our
crew on X, formerly known as Twitter at
Scene N Nerd on Blue sky at Scene N Nerd. Friend
us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads at Scene,
Underscore N, underscore Nerd and Visit our website,
www.uh, seniornerdpodcast.com.
but most importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple
(57:44):
Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast.
Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com