June 12, 2025 • 51 mins
In episode 228 of the Sober Vibes podcast, I welcome Helen Bennett to the show, and we talk about eating disorders, food noise, and how to start your food freedom journey.
Helen shares her raw and personal journey from restrictive dieting at age 14, to a 20-year battle with bulimia, and ultimately to recovery and helping others heal their relationship with food. Helen Bennett specialises in helping women heal the root cause of overeating and feel real power & freedom around food again.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- The shocking similarities between food issues and alcohol addiction
- Why “food noise” is so draining and how to quiet it
- How high-achievers and people-pleasers are especially vulnerable to disordered patterns
- The truth about restriction, moderation, and real food freedom
- Three practical tips to start your food freedom journey
Whether you're stuck in the binge-restrict cycle or just tired of thinking about food all day, this conversation offers hope, healing, and a new way forward.
Hope this episode helps you today.
Resources Mentioned:
To Connect with Helen:
Thank you for listening! Help the show by Rating, Reviewing, and/or Subscribing to the Sober Vibes Podcast.
Connect w/ Courtney:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Courtney Andersen (00:31):
Hey, welcome back to the Sober Vibes podcast.
I am your host and Sober Coach,courtney Anderson.
You are listening to episode228.
I have such an amazingconversation today for you with
an amazing guest.
Such an amazing conversationtoday for you with an amazing
guest.
Today I'm talking to HelenBennett, and Helen is a food
freedom coach who specializes inhelping women heal the root
(00:54):
cause of overeating and feelreal power and freedom around
food.
Again, I will be introducing alot more, as the show continues
to go on, of experts when itcomes to eating issues.
So for many years I've talkedabout it, about the similarities
(01:15):
with alcohol addiction and witheating disorders when it comes
to the same cycle, and a lot ofwomen usually have an eating
disorder before they have aproblem with alcohol.
Okay, so I want to share moreof these guests and this was a
(01:37):
great first one.
Like, I hate to say that thistype of conversation excited me
because with food it is so hard.
It is so hard, but I justreally enjoyed talking with
Helen about this issue and Ihope you enjoy this episode and
that it helps you today.
For me, food was always first.
(01:59):
I have had this relationshipwith food since I was probably
seven Okay, and it is one thatis always a continuous work in
progress.
It's always, I just feel likeit's always going to be that for
(02:19):
me.
Maybe I'm feeling like, though,it's getting better.
It has gotten a lot better.
I should say so.
It's just that there's justsometimes cycles I say it in
here where it's just like youwant to eat your feelings right
but then you feel bad after that.
And lately, I have to say, inthe last couple months, this
(02:41):
last year, I've been workingmore of like this doesn't even
feel good anymore, like whywould I, if something was going
on, take it on with myself?
Now I'm in a point where I talkit out a lot more internally
and always think how I'm goingto feel the next day.
But so the food thing for womenand men, if you have this issue
(03:02):
as well, that I hope one day itgets better for all of us,
because you have to eat to live.
Food is a constant, soespecially nowadays as well.
You were going to talk aboutfood noise in this episode.
So since that word in the pastcouple of years has been brought
up more and more, especiallywith the use of GLP-1s, which it
(03:23):
really is a thing, food noiseis a thing right Again, I'll say
it one more time.
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
I will put all of Helen'sinformation in the show notes.
Any resources I mentioned inthis episode I will put in the
show notes below, and she reallythen shares two tips to help
(03:47):
you in your food freedom journey.
And that's what she calls it,because that is what it is, and
she even has experience with itherself of having to go through
this process with her eating.
So, as always, if you have notyet, please rate, review and
subscribe to the show if youhave found it valuable, and keep
on trucking and kick ass outthere.
Hey, helen, welcome to theSober Vibes podcast.
(04:08):
I'm very excited to have youhere today and talk about food.
Helen Bennett (04:14):
I'm excited to be here, Courtney.
We've just had a little chatand already I can feel we're
going to have lots to talk about.
Courtney Andersen (04:19):
Yes, we are.
Why don't you start off on howyou became a food freedom coach?
Helen Bennett (04:26):
Perfect.
So it's a long story, but Ithink the shortened version is
when I was about 16, myrelationship with food fell
right off a cliff.
In fact, it goes back furtherthan that and I wouldn't be
surprised if anybody who's beenstruggling with food would have
a similar experience.
Where it all began, now that Ican see it, with dieting.
So around about 14 years of ageI went on very restrictive
(04:48):
dieting protocol.
First it was with a friend,just kind of to be her buddy,
but then I quickly realized how,I don't know, it gave me a bit
of a kick, it made me feel good,and then I started getting
compliments about my body andall these good things.
And next thing, you know, twoyears later, and all these good
things, and next thing, you know, two years later, I found
myself overeating.
(05:09):
I started binge eating and as away to cope with that, I guess
we could say, or mitigate theimpact of that, I desperately
started overexercising.
I was already exercisingheavily anyway to try and lose
weight.
And then one day I heard somefriends talking about throwing
up their food and I was shockedand horrified, but it probably
was maybe a week later before Itried myself.
I was just desperate, desperateto get rid of all the bad
(05:32):
things I'd done with food.
And that began a 20-yearchronic disordered eating or
eating disorder.
I had bulimia for 20 yearsnever diagnosed, but clearly
that's what it was and crawledmy way out of that with much
support and help from manydifferent places.
But in that journey of recoveryI knew then I wanted to be a
(05:53):
coach and I was inspired by acoach called Tommy Rosen.
Do you know of him?
No, I have not heard.
Brilliant, okay, and he'sfantastic.
And I just thought this is whatI want to do.
And then, I don't know, was itsix, seven years later?
I started my journey, notexpecting to work with people
with food, didn't feel ready forthat, but it seemed to find me.
I was life coaching and I hadall these clients come in
(06:15):
struggling with food, and so Ijust shared with them what
helped me, and that was it.
That began the journey.
Courtney Andersen (06:21):
Well, that's amazing that you are able to
help other people, because thisone, especially this one with
food, it's a hard one because alot of disordered eating, right,
especially to of up until what,do you think, like the past
maybe five to 10 years, of wherethat dieting culture is kind of
(06:46):
phased its way out, right, andmore of a body positivity came
in.
So for generations before theselast five to 10 years, because
I'm in it, I'm in the generationof dieting, I mean the dieting
culture, I should say I've hadissues with food since I was
probably about seven, wow, andit's a hard one because you have
(07:09):
to eat to live.
So, like where, and especiallytoo with again of what we're
about to talk about with women,with eating, where there's the
problem that eating sometimes isbefore alcohol problem.
But where do you even begin onthis, like, where do you even,
(07:29):
how do you even help yourclients with food freedom, I'm
going to say because it's daily.
Helen Bennett (07:36):
Yeah, we can't go cold turkey, we can't quit it,
and everybody wishes they could.
Courtney Andersen (07:40):
That's what I'm saying.
Helen Bennett (07:41):
If I could just stop eating.
I would do anything to be ableto just stop eating.
Courtney Andersen (07:44):
That's what I'm saying.
If I could just stop eating, Iwould do anything to be able to
just stop eating.
Right, and there's so much in,like I said, with specific
generations, with that dietculture.
So then you have a cookie andthen you start shaming yourself.
You know what I mean.
So it's just like there's somany layers to this conversation
when it comes to eating.
Helen Bennett (07:59):
So where do you start?
The first place we start isgetting clear on what somebody
wants.
So what does freedom mean tothem?
And usually it will looksomething like if they can just
wave that magic wand, because alot of people don't even believe
this is possible, so they don'treally allow themselves to
listen to what they really want.
But if they're honest withthemselves and this is what
happened to me I remembersitting on my bed one day and
going I just want to eat whenI'm hungry and stop when I'm
(08:22):
full and not think about it allday in between.
And when we get that kind ofanswer, then I know, okay, I can
help with that.
So that's where we start isidentifying what is it we want.
So if I take it back to my ownjourney, as I said that to
myself, I realized I was doingeverything, but what I just told
myself I wanted because I wasrestricting, I was.
(08:43):
I didn't call it intermittentfasting, I hadn't heard of it at
that stage.
I was holding off eating, I wastrying to control, I'd been
calorie counting.
I tried everything but eatingwhen I was hungry and then
stopping when I was full, whichtook a lot longer to learn as I
went on my own journey with this, because that fullness signal
can be really hard to hear atfirst and that's okay.
(09:04):
But I realized I had beenignoring hunger, forcing hunger,
controlling hunger, trying toeliminate hunger.
I'd tried everything butactually what I wanted, and then
the not thinking about it allthe time in between.
That was also part of the skillsthat I teach someone.
But of course, as you'veidentified, it goes so much
deeper than that no-transcriptbit.
(09:50):
Further than that.
It's feeling trust around food,not feeling that guilt and
shame.
But everybody's got their ownidea of what freedom means to
them, but sometimes just nothaving so much chaotic
overeating to them feels likefreedom compared to where
they've come from.
Courtney Andersen (10:06):
Right, right.
So what's the differencebetween restriction, moderation
and freedom, Like where, yeah?
I love when you put it down,because, again, that it can kind
of, because, like what wetalked about with food and
especially to alcohol, this is avery similar.
What we talked about with foodand especially to alcohol, this
(10:26):
is a very similar, it's veryparallel and it's very similar.
It's a very similar mentaljourney.
Helen Bennett (10:30):
I believe, and I think, if somebody's come, from,
because a few years ago I did apodcast with a chap called
Sober Dave and that's where Istarted to realize, wow, there's
this big crossover between thetwo.
Yes, huge.
And then people reached out tome who had stopped drinking or
stopped smoking, or both, yeah,and just couldn't seem to apply
(10:50):
those same things to food.
Yeah, and this is, I think, whythis question is so great,
because if we've come at thiswith a AA or whatever it is that
kind of mindset, there's a fewthings that can trip us up there
, and one of them is this ideaof cutting something out
completely or sort of having aperfect track record from zero
and it always being perfectevery day.
And then the other one is theconcept of moderation, that it's
(11:14):
sort of come in as well.
So it's a super interestingquestion because restriction I
think restriction is anythingwhen we've gone so we're trying
to stop ourselves eating to thepoint at which we're not getting
enough nutrition in and itfeels tight and it feels forced
and we're going up againsthunger and all our primal
survival urges to eat.
Moderation is a little bit morenuanced, but it's actually a
(11:36):
form of restriction when itcomes to food.
We say I just want to portioncontrol, I just want to have
sort of control over it but knowwhen to stop, not have too much
of anything.
And actually that's a verysubtle moderation because the
body's still hearing you're notallowed, yeah.
And the body hears that afteryears, if not decades, of
dieting, a lot of men and womenhave tried everything under the
(11:58):
sun and they've restrictedheavily in all sorts of
different ways.
And I think what happens is thebody embodies that.
It is kind of trauma.
And if you even think ofmoderation or think I'm just
going to portion control, I'mjust going to try and stop you,
oh, the backlash of that canturn into some nasty overeating
and binge eating in some cases.
So freedom isn't moderation,freedom isn't having to try,
(12:20):
freedom is just you're notworried about it.
You wake up, you know thatyou'll be able to listen to your
hunger, stop and get on with it.
There's not a sort of planningrequired or a sense of oh, that
was too much or that was toolittle.
Add on to that is well whathappens when we overeat, because
a lot of people worry oh, doesfreedom mean that I'm just going
to start eating and never stop?
(12:40):
It's a freedom of choice aswell.
It's a freedom to listen andhear those signals, but to be
able to make an empowered choicewithout it feeling like denial.
And when we're actually full andwe've done all this other work
around the shame and the guiltand the diet culture, head worms
and all of it then there'speace in fullness.
It's easier to stop when wejust feel calm and satisfied.
(13:01):
So freedom is not about justeating whatever you want.
It's about eating what yourbody's asking for and having
that beautiful ability to hearthat little switch off signal
that goes oh, we're safe now,we're good, we're satisfied.
And then stop, yeah, andgetting so good at that that it
just becomes automatic thatyou're not having to think, oh,
I shouldn't eat more, I shouldmoderate, I just need to control
(13:22):
this.
It's just easy.
It's not something you thinkabout, it's automagical.
Courtney Andersen (13:27):
Right.
So your approach, if I'mhearing this correctly, is more
about intuitive eating.
Helen Bennett (13:34):
Oh, it's very much aligned with intuitive
eating, very much the principlesof intuitive eating are.
In fact, I didn't discoverintuitive eating until I was
well into my journey, and Iremember reading the book
thinking, oh, this explains itall.
Courtney Andersen (13:47):
What's the name of the book?
Helen Bennett (13:49):
The book is actually called Intuitive Eating
by the two ladies who createdthe concept, although clearly
this is something that manypeople had stumbled across in
their own way, but they labeledit intuitive eating.
I remember the one lady goshshe's wonderful.
Dr Evelyn Triboli Okay,wonderful, we'll listen to any
of her podcasts and she'll justblow you away.
Courtney Andersen (14:10):
All right.
Well, I will link that bookbelow, just in case somebody
wants to get started in thatsense.
Also, too, with you, do youwork with a woman's cycle?
Because, again, a lot of thesefood studies were all done on
men right Like exercise programs.
It was all done.
When I read a book I don't knowwhy now I'm drawing the name of
(14:33):
it I've said this book so manyin the flow.
Book.
I don't know why now I'mdrawing the name of it.
I've said this book so many inthe flow.
About your second cycles thatwas also another one where it
was very much like eating foodswith each phase of your cycle to
really and going back tointuitive eating.
When you're around on yourperiod it's like you crave stuff
(14:58):
that's warmer, like soups andall of that stuff.
So do you focus too on thatwith a client of helping them
with their cycle?
Helen Bennett (15:07):
Absolutely so.
The first thing we do is beginreconnecting with our body
signals, starting with hungerand fullness, but we might move
into sleep or joyful movementhow does my body like to move?
And inevitably, what we end upworking through are noticing the
patterns of the cycles and howthat impacts our food.
But what I try to do is justtake away all the things we
(15:28):
think we know about it andreally try and listen to the
body.
So it's an inside out journey,and then the things we learn in
the media or throughnutritionists or whatever the
case may be.
We can go, oh, that'sinteresting, that applies to me,
or oh, no, that doesn't applyto me at all, because what's
interesting about the cycles isthe point.
I think what you've just pulledout is that it changes.
Courtney Andersen (15:48):
Yes.
Helen Bennett (15:49):
And we are also by individual that it'll be
different for everybody.
Yes, but what you invariablyfind in this lovely sort of
patterned way is that there'stimes of the month, usually
around about a period, wherewe're more hungry, and then
there's equally and this is whatpeople never think about
there's equally a good three orfour days, maybe more, not
(16:11):
hungry at all, just barely eventhinking about it, or it's not
coming up.
Not hunger hunger, I mean meantummy hunger.
We might be feeling non-hungerurges and we can get into that
and that's all coming from thethinking and the emotional and
the all of the other stuff thatwe have to work on.
But when we start getting intune with our body, it's so cool
as clients because I ask themto track their periods and just
to notice, and maybe notinitially, sometimes we only
(16:33):
bring that in a bit later.
First we're just trying to getthem keyed into their tummy
again, and then over time theystart going oh, I've seen this
thing.
There's these three days herewhere I'm usually extra hungry,
and there's these three dayshere I'm not hungry at all.
So then that extra hungerdoesn't feel so scary Because
we've come from this rigid ideaof calorie counting where we're
like machines that just needexactly the same calories each
(16:55):
day, independent of our cyclesor the weather or how much
stress we're under, because thisis the other cycle.
That's so cool to see and we'llbe seeing it now because we're
changing season.
As we move into summer, hungernaturally shifts.
What we choose to eat naturallyshifts.
Same thing happens in winter.
We like it in summer if we comefrom diet culture, because now
we're feeling light and weactually want to eat a salad and
(17:16):
that's supposedly healthy I'musing air quotes but in winter
it can be really scary becausesuddenly we want heavier, richer
meals, creamy potatoes, thatkind of thing and we get so
scared.
But of course, it's so obviouswhat our body's trying to do.
It's like what the cold'scoming folks, let's get a little
bit more fat on board.
But in summer it's like whoa,we've got to release this now
and we start to get to see thoseshifts and it's so lovely as we
(17:38):
begin to trust our body's nottrying to destroy us.
Our body's actually trying todo its best within all these
rhythms and cycles and,particularly for women, we're so
attuned to it all.
Courtney Andersen (17:49):
Yes, and that is something that when I got
sober because I had to starttracking my I never tracked my
period before that, but likesomething I had to start doing
when I was trying to conceive.
So once I started tracking myperiod, it honestly it was such
a game changer also too, of justthe fact of I could tell when
(18:10):
my anxiety kicked in, right, itwas the inducing of anxiety
before or after my period, right.
So then it was like, okay, I'mnot fucking crazy.
Like I now know, like this isnow just part of my cycle and I
know I'm going to have increasedanxiety and that it's not like,
(18:32):
oh my God, this is because I'msober, right.
Like this is just me and thecycle that I was blessed with.
Because I know people thinkprobably I'm crazy for saying
this, but like, when I don't getmy period anymore, I'm going to
be sad about that a little bit.
Helen Bennett (18:48):
I love that you said that A book about the
menstrual cycle actually was soinformative of my relationship
with food as well, because itmade me really start to
appreciate the rhythms and theattunement that you have to the
moon, and so I came to love myperiod, where I used to hate it,
but then I, like you, I'mtrying to celebrate it Exactly,
and I feel like, as the olderI've gotten, but especially too
(19:11):
with the blessing of being ableto have a child, that really
kind of changed a lot for me andthat women are magical
creatures.
Courtney Andersen (19:20):
We're so lucky.
We're so lucky.
But being able to track andthen the same thing Then, when I
learned more about my cycle andunderstanding that increased
hunger before my period, it wasno longer shaming myself of
being like again saying Helen,we swear on this podcast, like
what the fuck is wrong with you,why are you so hungry?
(19:40):
Because that had been mythoughts for so long that it was
like no, I need to tune intothis and like I need the
increased calories specificallyaround this time.
Helen Bennett (19:51):
Yeah.
Courtney Andersen (19:52):
Okay, this is , and I just thought of this as
we were talking about it Do youdeal with a lot of clients that
talk about food noise?
Because within the past coupleof years, with GLP-1s, this is
now medical weight loss, this isnow.
This is a topic of conversation.
So do you deal with clientswith food noise?
Helen Bennett (20:12):
Oh my gosh.
Almost everybody comes intalking about how they just feel
like they're thinking aboutfood, from the minute they get
up to the minute they go to bed.
Courtney Andersen (20:19):
Yes.
Helen Bennett (20:20):
Yeah, and one of the parts of freedom is not
having the food noise Now you'vegot a lot of mental bandwidth
for other stuff, yeah, but thatobsession to cut to the chase
there, that would be almostalways connected to the rules
and the regulations that we hadthrough diet culture and all the
feeling of I shouldn't eat thatand I should eat that, and then
paired with the relentlessbombardment of the latest
(20:42):
nutritional guru who's tellingus what we should and shouldn't
eat, and like constantlyrepeating the message in the
media that our bodies cannot betrusted and we need to take back
control, and it's just makingit worse.
But I think the thing I thinkpeople think oh, people with
disordered eating, particularlyif they're overweight, if
they've overeaten a lot and it'sshowing up on their bodies as
excess weight gain, there's astigma that they're lazy or they
(21:05):
just don't try or they'regreedy.
And sadly, these incrediblepeople are like doubling down on
the very thing that's probablycausing more of the overeating
which is the restriction andwith that comes a sense.
Oh, I had a client the other daywho said to me if I just put
sugar in my mouth I feel guilty,regardless of what his tummy is
asking for, regardless of howmany hours of exercise he's just
(21:29):
done or anything like that.
It's just that immediate.
That thing is associated withshame.
Any wonder.
Then we become just obsessed,not in a way we planned or chose
, but because we're trying sodesperately to do the quote,
unquote right thing.
And then if we eat anythingthat's not in alignment with
whatever rules we've given us,the mental chaos that erupts and
(21:49):
the self-flagellation how badwe are and I've got to try
harder, and all of those things.
It's exhausting.
People come in exhausted by thefood noise.
It's the food and weight noise.
They're thinking usually aboutthose two things together and
they just don't want to thinkabout it anymore.
They don't want to be worryingall the time about how they look
and what they look like in thephotographs and whether they
(22:09):
should eat that cookie.
And who's thinking of it whenthey eat that cookie?
Will they think that they don'thave control and will they
think that they're lazy?
Courtney Andersen (22:16):
It's exhausting, it's totally
exhausting.
So what are some underliningissues for people with this
compulsion right Like?
What are some underliningissues that people then need to
start working on?
Helen Bennett (22:33):
So let's assume that we're getting them
reconnected with their truehunger and true signals again
and they're getting really goodat honoring those.
That takes quite a bit ofpractice on its own.
Now we're actually eating andnourishing our bodies according
to our hunger and according tothe nutrients our bodies after,
and what's so cool about thatjust as an aside is that could
scare a lot of people, but whenyou try it, what is amazing is
(22:55):
when I do what I call a tummycheck-in with a client for the
first time and we really try andtune into what our tummies want
99.9, I've only had oneexception to this and I have to
assume it was because the bodywanted it that day but 99.9% of
the time what comes up when weactually tune in is what we
probably would have calledhealthy food, usually really
(23:16):
balanced, totally whole foodsalmost all the time, and just
it's very rare that whensomebody's really tuning in that
they get I need three pizzasand a burger and a bag of it.
It's just amazing.
So they get surprised andexcited by that that their
body's really quite good at thistop of eating.
And then we have to go okay,right, let's look at the
(23:36):
non-hunger eating that's goingon.
So we always want to honor thathunger.
And then let's look at thenon-hunger eating and that's
where we start digging into andwe've already started talking a
bit about this.
Firstly, usually the mentalstorm, the food noise.
A lot of that is just rulesthat are coming up again, but
(23:58):
it's also going into shame andguilt and that spirals into I'm
not enough.
And then we start digging outall the beliefs they've got
about themselves, becauseoftentimes, if anybody's
listening struggling with food,what you might notice is that we
think the food is the trigger.
Oh, it's the sweets that I'vegot in the house.
But more often than not, whenyou start to watch and notice
you go oh, my goodness, actuallyit's the thinking I've got
(24:19):
that's triggering the bingeThings like, or the overeating
things like the thought of I'veruined it, so I may as well just
finish it all.
So that's a simple one.
But then it can go as deep asyeah, you're greedy, lazy, good
for nothing, useless, disgusting, and those thoughts create so
much emotional pain in us thatwe reach for food to comfort.
Courtney Andersen (24:42):
Yeah.
Helen Bennett (24:42):
And that's when we also do the second piece and
this is the most important bitof the work.
But that's the hardest, becausethis goes back the furthest
usually to when the change inrelationship with our food began
, to the days where we startedeither overeating or dieting.
And this goes into theemotional set point where we
started to use food in a certainway to regulate our emotion,
(25:04):
from comforting ourselves orfinding connection and love
where we weren't receiving it toreleasing it.
And sometimes we're using foodto punish.
Sometimes it's a release ofanger, but we're turning it
inwards because we're using foodto punish.
Sometimes it's a release ofanger, but we're turning it
inwards because we didn't feelit was safe to let our anger out
at the people with whom we wereangry or frustrated or enraged.
So we turn it in and we startedto blame ourselves.
(25:27):
And so all that energy, thatemotional energy, instead of
being released in a reallyhealthy, appropriate way, ends
up being turned in on us andfood just becomes the tool that
we've punished ourselves with orreleased that anger.
And particularly in my case, assomebody who struggled with
purging as well as and actuallyeven the over-exercising in many
ways was a release of thatemotional energy.
(25:49):
It would often come with a muchlike we might scream or cry or
wail, and so a lot of emotionsthat maybe we felt we weren't
allowed to express.
As women particularly, we'renot meant to be greedy or bossy
or angry, and in some familiesif you cried it was, I'll give
you something to cry about.
Put those tears away.
Put on a smiley face.
(26:09):
Don't feel so sorry foryourself.
You're too sensitive.
So emotions we were taught whenwe were young.
We weren't allowed.
We've found ways to suppressthem or navigate them or manage
them with food.
But also sometimes it's assimple as we didn't have
unconditional love or comfortwhen we needed it and nobody to
give us a hug when we needed oneas a little boy or girl, and
(26:31):
food became a comfort.
So it's playing all thesedifferent roles so appropriately
, and that emotional one isinteresting because what the
diet and the fitness industrywill never tell you is that your
emotional needs will dominatewhat you want for your body and
your physique and yourrelationship with food every day
.
Imagine as I'm talking.
I'm so intrigued.
(26:51):
Courtney, there must be so muchsimilarity here with the
clients that you work with andthe people that are listening to
this podcast who struggle withalcohol.
Courtney Andersen (27:00):
Yes, it's all of it and the majority of all
of my one-on-one clients sinceI've been doing this since 2019,
there was probably 90% of themit's always a food issue first
and then goes to alcohol.
But, yes, of all what you justsaid, it's like you just find
(27:20):
that thing and what makes youfeel, what can numb it out,
right?
So for a lot of people it'swere not met in those years,
right?
Or if you had physical trauma,emotional trauma, it all goes
(27:45):
back to that for the most part.
Or at some point in later ondown the years that you were
trying to get an emotional needmet, met and then you started
with alcohol, right, yes?
And then that habit Jumps, thenbecomes a problem because
(28:08):
nobody starts eating and they'relike I hope I have an eating
problem later in their life.
Same thing with drinking Nobodygoes into it, being like I'm
thinking that they're going tohave a drinking problem down the
road.
You just don't, but you're usingthis in a way to again go back
to the emotional needs.
What you all said about thefood thing, exactly needs.
(28:35):
What you all said about thefood thing, exactly how I used
it and why I used it.
It actually started because itgoes back to my parents got
divorced at seven and at thattime, from that point on, there
was never food in my mom's house.
And then on the weekends therewas never food in my mom's house
.
And then on the weekends theremy dad supplied us like he would
(28:58):
let me bake, right.
So then I'm like, which wasfine, it wasn't, like it was
something for me to do over athis apartment.
And then we got we would go toBlockbuster Video.
God, I wish that place wouldcome back.
And then it was like I can getcandy over there, right.
So for many years I lived in arestricted right With no food
and then binge.
(29:18):
So for many years that's all Iknew.
And then I went into my alcoholaddiction and then being hung
over or being drunk.
There was never a healthyrelationship with food, because
I was on that cycle right.
So again, many years of tryingto heal this relationship with
(29:40):
food, and I was getting there,and then the world shut down in
2020.
Helen Bennett (29:48):
That was either the best thing for people with a
troubled relationship with foodor the worst.
Courtney Andersen (29:52):
Yeah, so like from about 33 up until what was
I like 37.
When that happened it was like,okay, I was getting into the
groove and then that happened,and then it's like I started
eating like a five-year-old,when you went to the grocery
store, all that was left wasstuff like that and it was like,
(30:12):
okay, when that first wave ofstuff shutting down.
I remember going to the grocerystore and leaving and crying
and being like and spending $300just on bullshit Because I'm
like what is happening here andwhat if this gets worse?
And this is, I'm eating ho,ho-ho.
I have no idea what a ho-ho is,but it sounds terrible.
Helen Bennett (30:34):
Yeah, like, just like, a like a little it's like
a little cupcake, okay, a hosted, yeah, all right copy okay.
Courtney Andersen (30:41):
I got it yeah and then and then from then and
then I had my son at 38 andthen that first year of
motherhood I would remember somedays of just like if there were
days where he would cry, he gotinto a colicky phase Like I
would go to the cabinets and myhusband's a big fan of Reese's
(31:02):
peanut butter cups and that'sfine, I would, and they're
delicious, but I would slam likefour to five Reese's peanut
butter cups and I remember beinglike four to five Reese's
peanut butter cups.
Helen Bennett (31:15):
And I remember being like I'm better.
Oh, there it is.
Isn't that lovely that release.
That's what we're looking for.
Courtney Andersen (31:19):
Yes.
And then the same thing at apoint in my journey.
Then, too, I had gained 50pounds with I call my son the
dictator on air, but I've gained50 pounds with that.
Previous to that, I was 20pounds heavier because of 2020.
So 70 pounds on my frame, andin those first couple of years
(31:47):
it's like then I was miserableand then went again into the
shaming of like what is wrongand then trying and nothing was
happening because, also, too, mycore's all spiked.
And then now, in the past yearof again starting to take care
of myself and re-heal thatrelationship with food right and
just, and looking at it more ofa thing of being for myself, of
(32:08):
using food for fuel right,allowing myself because I'm with
when it comes to food like that, it's like I don't want to even
say moderation.
I don't even want to say thatall foods are bad for you.
I don't, because it goes backon that intuitive eating, like
if you need a cupcake and thatis what your body is craving.
Helen Bennett (32:28):
Yeah, it's the best thing you can have.
Courtney Andersen (32:30):
You can have it right, Because you have to
start giving yourself some graceand being like, stop the
madness in your head and workingthrough that process.
Helen Bennett (32:43):
Yeah, yeah.
I'm so glad you mentioned thatbecause it's hard to imagine for
anybody struggling, and if youtold me I don't know 15 years
ago, maybe even 10 years ago,that I'd be able to have all
these foods that used to be sohard to resist.
Courtney Andersen (32:57):
Yeah.
Helen Bennett (32:57):
Say the Reese's Pieces kind of thing.
You know those that.
If that had been in the house.
That was gone.
Yeah, it had to be gone becauseI couldn't bear the food noise,
because I was always thinkingabout it, because I'd be so
restricted food noise, because Iwas always thinking about it,
because I'd be so restricted,yeah, and told it was bad and I
was probably hungry, to behonest too, but that food had to
be gone.
I just couldn't bear, Icouldn't sit.
Still, it would call to me toif you told me it was possible.
(33:19):
See this, oh, this is what's solovely about food as opposed to
alcohol, from my understanding,because we hear words like food
is addictive or there's certainfoods that are addictive.
we can make the mistake ofthinking that we have to go
completely cold turkey out then.
But in my experience, most ofthe clients that I work with
maybe with some very smallexceptions, in very specific
ways, but most people will comein and they'll say I'm addicted
(33:42):
to sugar.
I'm addicted or I can't stop.
Once I start eating chocolate,I can't stop.
And they can absolutely get tothe point where right now, like
I and I couldn't have believedthis was possible can have those
foods in the house.
I'm hungry, I'll eat them ifthat's what I want, if that's
what my tummy wants.
Or maybe I just want to indulgeand enjoy the flavor and move on
with my day.
Because you know what, if Ihave a ho-ho I can't get enough
(34:03):
of that word then I'm going toprobably just be a little bit
fuller for longer, or I'm goingto have more energy later, or
maybe I'll find myself with moremental energy.
Our bodies are so clever.
When we do over-consume, whenwe go beyond our fullness, or
when we eat something that'smaybe not ideal, but it tasted
great at the time and we savoredit and enjoyed it, our body's
brilliant.
It'll find ways to make senseof that.
(34:25):
Maybe we sleep a bit longer orwe just awake a bit more, but
it's so lovely as you start tosee.
Oh, my body knew exactly whatto do with that.
So we're not saying, oh, junkfood or processed food is good
for you.
We're not saying that Obviouslythere's some health impacts to
those foods, particularly ifthey're over consumed.
But when we're listening to ourbodies, we can create a really
peaceful relationship with them.
Where there's no requisite, Ishould only have one.
(34:47):
Because where there's norequisite, I should only have
one, because, again, we've tunedin.
And when we oh, this is thebest bit of starting to tune
into that hunger is.
We notice that the longersomebody's doing that work of
listening to their tummy'shunger and really trying to
honor what the tummy asks for,regardless of what it is, those
foods start to become lessenjoyable.
It's so weird.
I don't know what's going on.
(35:08):
I don't know the science behindthis, but I see it every time
and over time people come andsay, yeah, I had some chocolate,
but it was just a bit meh, soit's not.
Oh, I'm trying to stop myself.
It becomes no, I didn't enjoythat at all and it's so
authentic, it's not restrictive.
We hear people say that, butthey're just trying to stop
(35:28):
themselves.
It's actually when it comesfrom the inside and you can hear
they just think oh no, Icouldn't be fussed with that
because I didn't enjoy it thelast time I ate it.
And it's interesting that thelonger they do this work, all of
those foods just start tobecome.
You could have them in thehouse because they just don't
call to you, because youwouldn't necessarily choose them
if you could have analternative.
But, as you said, if you needone, your tummy's calling for
(35:52):
some chocolate or something andyou can hear it's tummy hunger.
Courtney Andersen (35:54):
eat it, because you're going to get that
satisfaction, then you can moveon Right, right.
Yeah, it's kind of the samething too with alcohol.
When it's like, especially whenpeople, a lot of people, who
say they're going to quitdrinking it's not right off that
first time they say it, and I'msure you've seen this with
clients too, where this is aprocess, this is a lot of years
(36:14):
on unwiring your brain right andcreating new relationships and
whatnot.
It's the same thing for alcohol, no-transcript, like it has
(36:47):
taken me three days now torecover because you're not
putting that into your bodyanymore.
And it's the same thing whenyou start eating foods that
don't really agree with you andI mean after 40, all of this
stuff changes too With foodsagreeing with you, like why are
you going to keep eating stuffthat gives you heartburn, right,
(37:07):
or like, or migraines, or justwhere you're or where maybe you
were just on the toilet all thenext day, like what fun is that
anymore?
Helen Bennett (37:16):
And.
Courtney Andersen (37:16):
I think, as people get older and start
healing their relationshipwithin themselves, right that
it's not fun anymore to put thisstuff into your body that makes
you feel like garbage.
Helen Bennett (37:28):
Yes, and, as you said, like as you're doing all
the other work, that rewiring,that takes time.
I love that you've said as well.
It's a process, it's not anovernight thing, and
particularly with food, becausewe can't cut it out, because we
have no capacity to cut it out,oh my gosh, there'll be so many
mistakes, so many overeatingmoments, so many little blowouts
.
But what we do with this workbecause we can't put it down is,
(37:51):
I mean, I'm sort ofpsychotically excited when
somebody has a bit of a blowout,because it means something
really important was underneaththat yes, that we can heal, and
that's all it ever means is, oh,there's emotion that we've
still got to work on healing orregulating, or there's a belief
there that really tripped you up, or something said some,
somebody said something.
You just know how to put down aboundary or say no and stand up
for yourself, or whatever it is.
(38:12):
But when somebody's overeaten,it always means there's
something that needs work.
And I've just thought ofsomething that's actually so
important to this conversation.
So we work on connecting withhunger, we work with the mental.
What are the beliefs, what arethe stories that are tripping us
up?
We work on the emotional, butthere's one that I now focus on
almost more than the others,initially, and that's getting us
(38:33):
some damn rest, because thewomen that reach out, the women
who seem to struggle and menwith overeating, are absolutely
chronically exhausted becausethey are just doing everything
for everybody else.
They cannot put themselvesfirst.
It doesn't feel safe to putthemselves first, and if they
rest they call themselves lazyand they're actually exhausted.
Courtney Andersen (38:54):
Well, listen, sometimes my clients they might
get sick of me saying it, butI'm like rest, go to bed.
Go to bed, shut your brain up,get your ass into bed at 7pm if
you can.
If you need to put the kidsdown early, put them down early.
Get to sleep Because, two, yourbody is going through a detox
(39:19):
period, right, like withquitting drinking alcohol.
But it's not just that, it'sthe years of hustling the way
that people have right for solong, and you get to this point
where you're just mentallyexhausted Because and this is as
we talk about it you aredescribing high achievers, you
are describing people pleaserscast right, and isn't it fucked
(39:42):
up that there's so many more ofthese people out there than
there are not?
If you look at your clientroster and the people that you
help, I'm sure it's all of that.
Helen Bennett (39:54):
Oh no, everybody fits that exact description.
Courtney Andersen (39:56):
Yes, and that people there's so many people
who came from families wheretheir emotional needs were not
met.
Helen Bennett (40:05):
Yeah, tons, yes, mind-blowing.
It is mind-blowing.
I mean, this is the big thingOnce we become, once we do this
work forces, because otherwisewe'll just addiction jump.
If we're not doing the work toheal the deeper wounds, to deal
with those stories, the beliefs,all the self-loathing and the
self-criticism and the inabilityto regulate and comfort
(40:26):
ourselves in ways that areappropriate, if we're not doing
that, it'll just jump tosomething new, which is what
you've said.
But it's interesting, isn't it?
I always find what makes peoplepleasers.
Specifically, I don't know asingle client that I've worked
with who wouldn't definethemselves as a people pleaser,
and one of the things that Icame to was I think a people
pleaser is somebody who hasrealized at a very young age
(40:50):
that they can't be themselves,and certainly in the way we're
talking about, in terms ofexpressing certain emotions that
could potentially, if weexpress them, lead to a kind of
rejection or abandonment fromone of our caregivers.
And so we tend to just bequietly alone with all of these
emotions and because the body'sgot to figure out a way to deal
(41:11):
with it, it does.
We start, maybe we dive intobooks or we become obsessed with
the boy band For me it was NewKids on the Block Anything to
regulate and to experience love,connection, all those things
and then it was things likecutting and then slowly became
binge eating and bulimia.
We have these sort of reallyhealthy ways that we stumble
into to cope and unhealthy ways.
But we have these sort ofreally healthy ways that we
stumble into to cope andunhealthy ways.
But what's interesting aboutovereaters and people pleasing?
(41:33):
Specifically the correlationthere and maybe this would also
correlate with the quiet, silent, functional, alcoholic type
personality where thedestruction is turned inwards in
a way that couldn't negativelyimpact anybody else until it
does.
So eating is interestingbecause I don't really have
clients who reach out who'vemaybe struggled with I don't
(41:55):
know how to define this but likethe kind of addictions that are
wild, I don't have people reachout to me who became the kind
of addicts that were aggressiveand drove drunk and that's kind
of wild.
The way we see it in the movies.
It tends to be quiet, silent,secretive, because that way they
can experience all they need todo or hurt themselves in a way
(42:16):
that doesn't impact anybody elseuntil it gets so bad that it
does.
Courtney Andersen (42:20):
Self-sabotage .
Helen Bennett (42:22):
Yeah, well, it's interesting that because my
frame on self-sabotage is wenever self-sabotage, we're
always meeting our needs.
It looks like self-sabotage iswe never self-sabotage, we're
always meeting our needs.
It looks like self-sabotagebecause you think why would we
do that, why would I put that inmy body?
But actually there's thisdeeper need begging, begging,
please, please.
I need to be seen experience.
And sometimes it's just rest,like we were just saying like
(42:44):
just get to bed, just go to bed.
And sometimes it goes muchdeeper than that.
Courtney Andersen (42:48):
Yeah, take a nap.
Take a nap If you can like,even if you can't nap, lay in
your bed and just stare up atthe ceiling.
I mean, I call this thing toweltime after I get out of the
shower, and I used to be able todo it a lot more before the
little dictator came along.
But like now, it's like take ashower, I get in my robe with
(43:10):
the towel on my head and I justlay in my bed and sit up at the
ceiling and it is sorejuvenating.
I can't eat because it's likeyou just got back from a spa of
some sorts and it's great.
Helen Bennett (43:20):
I love that.
I love it, and I imagine thatmust be so hard to do for
anybody who is not used tohaving time for themselves.
Yeah, especially if they've gota little dictator of their own,
or for you.
Courtney Andersen (43:39):
But once you do it, once not even
specifically that, but once youstart taking the time to rest,
for yourself, to rest, torejuvenate, even if it's 30
minutes, before you then have togo from your nine to five to
your five to nine, whatever thatlooks like, even if it's just
30 minutes.
When you start doing that moreand taking that time for
yourself just to be quiet, notget on your phone, not do
anything, it's going to beuncomfortable at first, but once
(44:01):
you start doing that to protectyour energy, you can start
craving this stuff.
Helen Bennett (44:06):
Yeah, gosh, it's so true, and it's such a game
changer.
The benefits are so worth it.
Yeah, gosh, it's so true, andit's such a game changer, the
benefits are so worth it.
So it's first somebody mightstruggle even to find five
minutes, but as they start tosee the benefits of that and
here's the thing, oh, this willbe the same for alcohol I'm sure
it's oftentimes the one momentin their day where they're
getting a break yes, so actuallythey just really need a break
(44:28):
but also where they're kind ofdoing something rebellious and
playful for themselves, becauseeverything else is to do,
everything else isresponsibility.
And what we see is when I askclients question like what do
you do for fun, what do you dofor play?
Nothing, nothing.
It's.
It's almost like a oh scrollsocial media and then it, just
because maybe it's just one ofthose rare moments in the day
(44:51):
where that little rebel that'sinside us that's going.
I just want to not be doingsomething for everybody else for
once.
Yeah, go start screaming andgoing I'm gonna get my play time
and I'm gonna.
I'm gonna override you and I'mgonna get you to walk and do
something really bad whatever,but it's that one moment where
there's a break in the workload,because often we oh, we've got
to get good sleep and that'sgreat, but sometimes it's just
(45:13):
stepping outside and doingsomething silly or whatever.
Everybody will be differentBecause, as a human being, we
need play.
We're not meant to beresponsible, because I think we
think of it as like I've got towork and then I eat a perfect
meal and then I go to bed, andactually it's like, yes, we've
got to work, perfect meal.
And then I go to bed andactually it's like, yes, we've
got to work, we've got to eatgreat food.
We've got to get good sleep, butwe also have some time for play
(45:33):
for just being silly and doingwhatever the hell we want.
It's got nothing to do withproductivity.
Yeah, because people say oh no,but I'll do meditation.
No, that sounds like work to meStop Right, right.
Courtney Andersen (45:43):
Yeah, we're not meant it's robotic and we're
not meant to be, we're notmeant to be connected 24-7,
right, so all of that, but I dothink a lot more, and I think
it's come in the past couple ofyears of just an awakening of
people where it's like thepeople are starting to get it
like I don't want to beconnected 24-7.
(46:04):
Like.
This sounds like this is anightmare, right, I don't want
to share everything on socialmedia, so I think there is more
people tuning into disconnecting.
Helen Bennett (46:15):
Yeah, disconnecting and letting go,
yeah, frivolous and fun.
Courtney Andersen (46:19):
Yes.
So what are three tips to helpsomeone who you know in their
food journey?
Helen Bennett (46:24):
food freedom journey.
The first thing I always, thefirst thing I always like to
share I don't know if it's a tip, so much as just something to
take on board if you can isoftentimes we come at it that
when I can eat a certain way,when I can look a certain way,
then I will love myself, thenI'll be deserving of my own love
(46:45):
and care and my own respect.
And one of the things I justcan't express enough is start
now In South Africa because, youcan hear, I'm South African by
birth, though I live in Spainthere's a phrase, futz-tutz,
which is as is with all thepatent and latent defects, and
when you buy a house you buy itfutz-tutz unless you don't, but
(47:05):
usually you do.
And I love this idea of tryingand practicing and learning the
art or the skill of acceptingourselves footstuts, so not
waiting to be alcohol free orwaiting to be have a great
relationship with food and tofeel that we are deserving of
our own love and respect.
It's not always love, but if wecan just start with a little
(47:27):
bit of enoughness and just keeptrying to bring yourself back to
that, I can respect even that.
I'm on this journey and I'mdoing this work today, even if
it's all messy, because thefundamental what I see is you
peel back the onion deeper anddeeper.
As you do this work, we alwaysget to one thing right at the
middle, which is I'm not enoughand I'm not lovable.
Those two, it's sort of allpart of the same thing.
(47:49):
I'm not lovable, those two,it's sort of all part of the
same thing.
I'm not thin enough, sexyenough, whatever, smart enough
enough and therefore I can't beloved.
And the work requires that webegin to build and it's a build
because it doesn't happenovernight the ability to love
ourselves through all of it,through all the mess, because
life will remain messy andthere'll be better quality
problems once we've changed ourrelationship with food and our
(48:09):
ability to not self-reject andnot self-abandon in the way we
were abandoned, however thatmeans for everybody is
absolutely critical.
So I'll say that up front,because it's such an important
part of the journey.
But then just some practicalthings.
Oh, there's so many, so manyways to go with this.
Okay, the second one I'dprobably actually know the
(48:29):
second one's probably just gonnabe get some rest, damn it
please I think we've said somuch no, keep saying it, keep
saying it yeah start to try andprioritize you.
That'll be number two.
So when you're doing this work,again, people pleases.
Busy moms have a habit of sortof coming to the calls but not
necessarily finding the time toput themselves first to do the
(48:51):
work, to do the tummy check-ins,whatever.
And it's such a necessity tocarve out, no matter how hard it
is time for you, because wecannot learn anything or change
anything if we're not puttingtime and energy into it.
And these are the things we'reterribly deficient of when we
come into them.
That's why we're often usingfood to cope.
So actually, number two is startprioritizing this work and you.
(49:14):
And maybe that looks like sleep, or maybe it looks like doing
the homework, or because all ofthis is skills and drills and
nobody would say, oh, I want tolearn French, I'm just going to
attend a class once a week andhope for the best.
You have to practice it, whichrequires prioritizing it, right,
right, I mean, you'd learn itjust very slowly.
So prioritizing you.
And then the third one is justa really practical thing.
(49:35):
And this actually goes off oursabotage discussion, one of the
most powerful questions, becausemost people will be able to
start to hear maybe just afterthis they start suddenly hearing
that difference between am Ieating for hunger or am I
non-hunger eating?
So if it's non-hunger, you'renot hungry, but you're eating
anyway and you're actually ableto catch it.
The most powerful question youcan ask and the answer will be
(49:58):
perfect and blow you away is iffood's not what I need, what do
I need?
And it's as simple as that,because if I'm not hungry, it's
not food that I need, so food'snot what I need.
What do I need?
And as you ask that question,it's astounding how that little
intuition goes a rest, a break,a hug and it will give you
(50:19):
exactly the answer.
And we're not always able to getit like if it's a hug yeah and
it's the covid and we're allalone, yeah, but at least we're
getting clear on what need foodis trying to meet for us and we
can be so much morecompassionate with ourselves.
So if somebody just wants tostart somewhere, that's a great
place.
If they find themselvesnon-hunger eating, just ask if
(50:40):
food's not what I need andlisten and the first thing that
comes in even if it's crazy,it's probably going to be it and
then you just got to try andgive yourself whatever you just
heard.
Courtney Andersen (50:48):
Right, right, I love it, I love it.
Thank you so much for all ofyour wisdom.
I really enjoyed thisconversation.
Where can people find you ifthey want to connect with you?
Helen Bennett (51:00):
People can find me at helenbennettco, but
actually there's an easier one.
You can go tofoodfreedomfoundationscom and
that'll just link straight to mywebsite because my name's a bit
hard to spell.
But otherwise I'm on all thesocials at Coach Helen Bennett,
Simple as that.
Be lovely to connect.
Courtney Andersen (51:17):
Okay, perfect .
I will put all of yourinformation in the show notes
below, and thank you again.
I really enjoyed thisconversation.
Helen Bennett (51:23):
Thank you, courtney, it was so lovely to
chat to you, really really cool.
Hey, welcome back to the Sober Vibes podcast.
I am your host and Sober Coach,courtney Anderson.
You are listening to episode228.
I have such an amazingconversation today for you with
an amazing guest.
Such an amazing conversationtoday for you with an amazing
guest.
Today I'm talking to HelenBennett, and Helen is a food
freedom coach who specializes inhelping women heal the root
(00:54):
cause of overeating and feelreal power and freedom around
food.
Again, I will be introducing alot more, as the show continues
to go on, of experts when itcomes to eating issues.
So for many years I've talkedabout it, about the similarities
(01:15):
with alcohol addiction and witheating disorders when it comes
to the same cycle, and a lot ofwomen usually have an eating
disorder before they have aproblem with alcohol.
Okay, so I want to share moreof these guests and this was a
(01:37):
great first one.
Like, I hate to say that thistype of conversation excited me
because with food it is so hard.
It is so hard, but I justreally enjoyed talking with
Helen about this issue and Ihope you enjoy this episode and
that it helps you today.
For me, food was always first.
(01:59):
I have had this relationshipwith food since I was probably
seven Okay, and it is one thatis always a continuous work in
progress.
It's always, I just feel likeit's always going to be that for
(02:19):
me.
Maybe I'm feeling like, though,it's getting better.
It has gotten a lot better.
I should say so.
It's just that there's justsometimes cycles I say it in
here where it's just like youwant to eat your feelings right
but then you feel bad after that.
And lately, I have to say, inthe last couple months, this
(02:41):
last year, I've been workingmore of like this doesn't even
feel good anymore, like whywould I, if something was going
on, take it on with myself?
Now I'm in a point where I talkit out a lot more internally
and always think how I'm goingto feel the next day.
But so the food thing for womenand men, if you have this issue
(03:02):
as well, that I hope one day itgets better for all of us,
because you have to eat to live.
Food is a constant, soespecially nowadays as well.
You were going to talk aboutfood noise in this episode.
So since that word in the pastcouple of years has been brought
up more and more, especiallywith the use of GLP-1s, which it
(03:23):
really is a thing, food noiseis a thing right Again, I'll say
it one more time.
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
I will put all of Helen'sinformation in the show notes.
Any resources I mentioned inthis episode I will put in the
show notes below, and she reallythen shares two tips to help
(03:47):
you in your food freedom journey.
And that's what she calls it,because that is what it is, and
she even has experience with itherself of having to go through
this process with her eating.
So, as always, if you have notyet, please rate, review and
subscribe to the show if youhave found it valuable, and keep
on trucking and kick ass outthere.
Hey, helen, welcome to theSober Vibes podcast.
(04:08):
I'm very excited to have youhere today and talk about food.
Helen Bennett (04:14):
I'm excited to be here, Courtney.
We've just had a little chatand already I can feel we're
going to have lots to talk about.
Courtney Andersen (04:19):
Yes, we are.
Why don't you start off on howyou became a food freedom coach?
Helen Bennett (04:26):
Perfect.
So it's a long story, but Ithink the shortened version is
when I was about 16, myrelationship with food fell
right off a cliff.
In fact, it goes back furtherthan that and I wouldn't be
surprised if anybody who's beenstruggling with food would have
a similar experience.
Where it all began, now that Ican see it, with dieting.
So around about 14 years of ageI went on very restrictive
(04:48):
dieting protocol.
First it was with a friend,just kind of to be her buddy,
but then I quickly realized how,I don't know, it gave me a bit
of a kick, it made me feel good,and then I started getting
compliments about my body andall these good things.
And next thing, you know, twoyears later, and all these good
things, and next thing, you know, two years later, I found
myself overeating.
(05:09):
I started binge eating and as away to cope with that, I guess
we could say, or mitigate theimpact of that, I desperately
started overexercising.
I was already exercisingheavily anyway to try and lose
weight.
And then one day I heard somefriends talking about throwing
up their food and I was shockedand horrified, but it probably
was maybe a week later before Itried myself.
I was just desperate, desperateto get rid of all the bad
(05:32):
things I'd done with food.
And that began a 20-yearchronic disordered eating or
eating disorder.
I had bulimia for 20 yearsnever diagnosed, but clearly
that's what it was and crawledmy way out of that with much
support and help from manydifferent places.
But in that journey of recoveryI knew then I wanted to be a
(05:53):
coach and I was inspired by acoach called Tommy Rosen.
Do you know of him?
No, I have not heard.
Brilliant, okay, and he'sfantastic.
And I just thought this is whatI want to do.
And then, I don't know, was itsix, seven years later?
I started my journey, notexpecting to work with people
with food, didn't feel ready forthat, but it seemed to find me.
I was life coaching and I hadall these clients come in
(06:15):
struggling with food, and so Ijust shared with them what
helped me, and that was it.
That began the journey.
Courtney Andersen (06:21):
Well, that's amazing that you are able to
help other people, because thisone, especially this one with
food, it's a hard one because alot of disordered eating, right,
especially to of up until what,do you think, like the past
maybe five to 10 years, of wherethat dieting culture is kind of
(06:46):
phased its way out, right, andmore of a body positivity came
in.
So for generations before theselast five to 10 years, because
I'm in it, I'm in the generationof dieting, I mean the dieting
culture, I should say I've hadissues with food since I was
probably about seven, wow, andit's a hard one because you have
(07:09):
to eat to live.
So, like where, and especiallytoo with again of what we're
about to talk about with women,with eating, where there's the
problem that eating sometimes isbefore alcohol problem.
But where do you even begin onthis, like, where do you even,
(07:29):
how do you even help yourclients with food freedom, I'm
going to say because it's daily.
Helen Bennett (07:36):
Yeah, we can't go cold turkey, we can't quit it,
and everybody wishes they could.
Courtney Andersen (07:40):
That's what I'm saying.
Helen Bennett (07:41):
If I could just stop eating.
I would do anything to be ableto just stop eating.
Courtney Andersen (07:44):
That's what I'm saying.
If I could just stop eating, Iwould do anything to be able to
just stop eating.
Right, and there's so much in,like I said, with specific
generations, with that dietculture.
So then you have a cookie andthen you start shaming yourself.
You know what I mean.
So it's just like there's somany layers to this conversation
when it comes to eating.
Helen Bennett (07:59):
So where do you start?
The first place we start isgetting clear on what somebody
wants.
So what does freedom mean tothem?
And usually it will looksomething like if they can just
wave that magic wand, because alot of people don't even believe
this is possible, so they don'treally allow themselves to
listen to what they really want.
But if they're honest withthemselves and this is what
happened to me I remembersitting on my bed one day and
going I just want to eat whenI'm hungry and stop when I'm
(08:22):
full and not think about it allday in between.
And when we get that kind ofanswer, then I know, okay, I can
help with that.
So that's where we start isidentifying what is it we want.
So if I take it back to my ownjourney, as I said that to
myself, I realized I was doingeverything, but what I just told
myself I wanted because I wasrestricting, I was.
(08:43):
I didn't call it intermittentfasting, I hadn't heard of it at
that stage.
I was holding off eating, I wastrying to control, I'd been
calorie counting.
I tried everything but eatingwhen I was hungry and then
stopping when I was full, whichtook a lot longer to learn as I
went on my own journey with this, because that fullness signal
can be really hard to hear atfirst and that's okay.
(09:04):
But I realized I had beenignoring hunger, forcing hunger,
controlling hunger, trying toeliminate hunger.
I'd tried everything butactually what I wanted, and then
the not thinking about it allthe time in between.
That was also part of the skillsthat I teach someone.
But of course, as you'veidentified, it goes so much
deeper than that no-transcriptbit.
(09:50):
Further than that.
It's feeling trust around food,not feeling that guilt and
shame.
But everybody's got their ownidea of what freedom means to
them, but sometimes just nothaving so much chaotic
overeating to them feels likefreedom compared to where
they've come from.
Courtney Andersen (10:06):
Right, right.
So what's the differencebetween restriction, moderation
and freedom, Like where, yeah?
I love when you put it down,because, again, that it can kind
of, because, like what wetalked about with food and
especially to alcohol, this is avery similar.
What we talked about with foodand especially to alcohol, this
(10:26):
is a very similar, it's veryparallel and it's very similar.
It's a very similar mentaljourney.
Helen Bennett (10:30):
I believe, and I think, if somebody's come, from,
because a few years ago I did apodcast with a chap called
Sober Dave and that's where Istarted to realize, wow, there's
this big crossover between thetwo.
Yes, huge.
And then people reached out tome who had stopped drinking or
stopped smoking, or both, yeah,and just couldn't seem to apply
(10:50):
those same things to food.
Yeah, and this is, I think, whythis question is so great,
because if we've come at thiswith a AA or whatever it is that
kind of mindset, there's a fewthings that can trip us up there
, and one of them is this ideaof cutting something out
completely or sort of having aperfect track record from zero
and it always being perfectevery day.
And then the other one is theconcept of moderation, that it's
(11:14):
sort of come in as well.
So it's a super interestingquestion because restriction I
think restriction is anythingwhen we've gone so we're trying
to stop ourselves eating to thepoint at which we're not getting
enough nutrition in and itfeels tight and it feels forced
and we're going up againsthunger and all our primal
survival urges to eat.
Moderation is a little bit morenuanced, but it's actually a
(11:36):
form of restriction when itcomes to food.
We say I just want to portioncontrol, I just want to have
sort of control over it but knowwhen to stop, not have too much
of anything.
And actually that's a verysubtle moderation because the
body's still hearing you're notallowed, yeah.
And the body hears that afteryears, if not decades, of
dieting, a lot of men and womenhave tried everything under the
(11:58):
sun and they've restrictedheavily in all sorts of
different ways.
And I think what happens is thebody embodies that.
It is kind of trauma.
And if you even think ofmoderation or think I'm just
going to portion control, I'mjust going to try and stop you,
oh, the backlash of that canturn into some nasty overeating
and binge eating in some cases.
So freedom isn't moderation,freedom isn't having to try,
(12:20):
freedom is just you're notworried about it.
You wake up, you know thatyou'll be able to listen to your
hunger, stop and get on with it.
There's not a sort of planningrequired or a sense of oh, that
was too much or that was toolittle.
Add on to that is well whathappens when we overeat, because
a lot of people worry oh, doesfreedom mean that I'm just going
to start eating and never stop?
(12:40):
It's a freedom of choice aswell.
It's a freedom to listen andhear those signals, but to be
able to make an empowered choicewithout it feeling like denial.
And when we're actually full andwe've done all this other work
around the shame and the guiltand the diet culture, head worms
and all of it then there'speace in fullness.
It's easier to stop when wejust feel calm and satisfied.
(13:01):
So freedom is not about justeating whatever you want.
It's about eating what yourbody's asking for and having
that beautiful ability to hearthat little switch off signal
that goes oh, we're safe now,we're good, we're satisfied.
And then stop, yeah, andgetting so good at that that it
just becomes automatic thatyou're not having to think, oh,
I shouldn't eat more, I shouldmoderate, I just need to control
(13:22):
this.
It's just easy.
It's not something you thinkabout, it's automagical.
Courtney Andersen (13:27):
Right.
So your approach, if I'mhearing this correctly, is more
about intuitive eating.
Helen Bennett (13:34):
Oh, it's very much aligned with intuitive
eating, very much the principlesof intuitive eating are.
In fact, I didn't discoverintuitive eating until I was
well into my journey, and Iremember reading the book
thinking, oh, this explains itall.
Courtney Andersen (13:47):
What's the name of the book?
Helen Bennett (13:49):
The book is actually called Intuitive Eating
by the two ladies who createdthe concept, although clearly
this is something that manypeople had stumbled across in
their own way, but they labeledit intuitive eating.
I remember the one lady goshshe's wonderful.
Dr Evelyn Triboli Okay,wonderful, we'll listen to any
of her podcasts and she'll justblow you away.
Courtney Andersen (14:10):
All right.
Well, I will link that bookbelow, just in case somebody
wants to get started in thatsense.
Also, too, with you, do youwork with a woman's cycle?
Because, again, a lot of thesefood studies were all done on
men right Like exercise programs.
It was all done.
When I read a book I don't knowwhy now I'm drawing the name of
(14:33):
it I've said this book so manyin the flow.
Book.
I don't know why now I'mdrawing the name of it.
I've said this book so many inthe flow.
About your second cycles thatwas also another one where it
was very much like eating foodswith each phase of your cycle to
really and going back tointuitive eating.
When you're around on yourperiod it's like you crave stuff
(14:58):
that's warmer, like soups andall of that stuff.
So do you focus too on thatwith a client of helping them
with their cycle?
Helen Bennett (15:07):
Absolutely so.
The first thing we do is beginreconnecting with our body
signals, starting with hungerand fullness, but we might move
into sleep or joyful movementhow does my body like to move?
And inevitably, what we end upworking through are noticing the
patterns of the cycles and howthat impacts our food.
But what I try to do is justtake away all the things we
(15:28):
think we know about it andreally try and listen to the
body.
So it's an inside out journey,and then the things we learn in
the media or throughnutritionists or whatever the
case may be.
We can go, oh, that'sinteresting, that applies to me,
or oh, no, that doesn't applyto me at all, because what's
interesting about the cycles isthe point.
I think what you've just pulledout is that it changes.
Courtney Andersen (15:48):
Yes.
Helen Bennett (15:49):
And we are also by individual that it'll be
different for everybody.
Yes, but what you invariablyfind in this lovely sort of
patterned way is that there'stimes of the month, usually
around about a period, wherewe're more hungry, and then
there's equally and this is whatpeople never think about
there's equally a good three orfour days, maybe more, not
(16:11):
hungry at all, just barely eventhinking about it, or it's not
coming up.
Not hunger hunger, I mean meantummy hunger.
We might be feeling non-hungerurges and we can get into that
and that's all coming from thethinking and the emotional and
the all of the other stuff thatwe have to work on.
But when we start getting intune with our body, it's so cool
as clients because I ask themto track their periods and just
to notice, and maybe notinitially, sometimes we only
(16:33):
bring that in a bit later.
First we're just trying to getthem keyed into their tummy
again, and then over time theystart going oh, I've seen this
thing.
There's these three days herewhere I'm usually extra hungry,
and there's these three dayshere I'm not hungry at all.
So then that extra hungerdoesn't feel so scary Because
we've come from this rigid ideaof calorie counting where we're
like machines that just needexactly the same calories each
(16:55):
day, independent of our cyclesor the weather or how much
stress we're under, because thisis the other cycle.
That's so cool to see and we'llbe seeing it now because we're
changing season.
As we move into summer, hungernaturally shifts.
What we choose to eat naturallyshifts.
Same thing happens in winter.
We like it in summer if we comefrom diet culture, because now
we're feeling light and weactually want to eat a salad and
(17:16):
that's supposedly healthy I'musing air quotes but in winter
it can be really scary becausesuddenly we want heavier, richer
meals, creamy potatoes, thatkind of thing and we get so
scared.
But of course, it's so obviouswhat our body's trying to do.
It's like what the cold'scoming folks, let's get a little
bit more fat on board.
But in summer it's like whoa,we've got to release this now
and we start to get to see thoseshifts and it's so lovely as we
(17:38):
begin to trust our body's nottrying to destroy us.
Our body's actually trying todo its best within all these
rhythms and cycles and,particularly for women, we're so
attuned to it all.
Courtney Andersen (17:49):
Yes, and that is something that when I got
sober because I had to starttracking my I never tracked my
period before that, but likesomething I had to start doing
when I was trying to conceive.
So once I started tracking myperiod, it honestly it was such
a game changer also too, of justthe fact of I could tell when
(18:10):
my anxiety kicked in, right, itwas the inducing of anxiety
before or after my period, right.
So then it was like, okay, I'mnot fucking crazy.
Like I now know, like this isnow just part of my cycle and I
know I'm going to have increasedanxiety and that it's not like,
(18:32):
oh my God, this is because I'msober, right.
Like this is just me and thecycle that I was blessed with.
Because I know people thinkprobably I'm crazy for saying
this, but like, when I don't getmy period anymore, I'm going to
be sad about that a little bit.
Helen Bennett (18:48):
I love that you said that A book about the
menstrual cycle actually was soinformative of my relationship
with food as well, because itmade me really start to
appreciate the rhythms and theattunement that you have to the
moon, and so I came to love myperiod, where I used to hate it,
but then I, like you, I'mtrying to celebrate it Exactly,
and I feel like, as the olderI've gotten, but especially too
(19:11):
with the blessing of being ableto have a child, that really
kind of changed a lot for me andthat women are magical
creatures.
Courtney Andersen (19:20):
We're so lucky.
We're so lucky.
But being able to track andthen the same thing Then, when I
learned more about my cycle andunderstanding that increased
hunger before my period, it wasno longer shaming myself of
being like again saying Helen,we swear on this podcast, like
what the fuck is wrong with you,why are you so hungry?
(19:40):
Because that had been mythoughts for so long that it was
like no, I need to tune intothis and like I need the
increased calories specificallyaround this time.
Helen Bennett (19:51):
Yeah.
Courtney Andersen (19:52):
Okay, this is , and I just thought of this as
we were talking about it Do youdeal with a lot of clients that
talk about food noise?
Because within the past coupleof years, with GLP-1s, this is
now medical weight loss, this isnow.
This is a topic of conversation.
So do you deal with clientswith food noise?
Helen Bennett (20:12):
Oh my gosh.
Almost everybody comes intalking about how they just feel
like they're thinking aboutfood, from the minute they get
up to the minute they go to bed.
Courtney Andersen (20:19):
Yes.
Helen Bennett (20:20):
Yeah, and one of the parts of freedom is not
having the food noise Now you'vegot a lot of mental bandwidth
for other stuff, yeah, but thatobsession to cut to the chase
there, that would be almostalways connected to the rules
and the regulations that we hadthrough diet culture and all the
feeling of I shouldn't eat thatand I should eat that, and then
paired with the relentlessbombardment of the latest
(20:42):
nutritional guru who's tellingus what we should and shouldn't
eat, and like constantlyrepeating the message in the
media that our bodies cannot betrusted and we need to take back
control, and it's just makingit worse.
But I think the thing I thinkpeople think oh, people with
disordered eating, particularlyif they're overweight, if
they've overeaten a lot and it'sshowing up on their bodies as
excess weight gain, there's astigma that they're lazy or they
(21:05):
just don't try or they'regreedy.
And sadly, these incrediblepeople are like doubling down on
the very thing that's probablycausing more of the overeating
which is the restriction andwith that comes a sense.
Oh, I had a client the other daywho said to me if I just put
sugar in my mouth I feel guilty,regardless of what his tummy is
asking for, regardless of howmany hours of exercise he's just
(21:29):
done or anything like that.
It's just that immediate.
That thing is associated withshame.
Any wonder.
Then we become just obsessed,not in a way we planned or chose
, but because we're trying sodesperately to do the quote,
unquote right thing.
And then if we eat anythingthat's not in alignment with
whatever rules we've given us,the mental chaos that erupts and
(21:49):
the self-flagellation how badwe are and I've got to try
harder, and all of those things.
It's exhausting.
People come in exhausted by thefood noise.
It's the food and weight noise.
They're thinking usually aboutthose two things together and
they just don't want to thinkabout it anymore.
They don't want to be worryingall the time about how they look
and what they look like in thephotographs and whether they
(22:09):
should eat that cookie.
And who's thinking of it whenthey eat that cookie?
Will they think that they don'thave control and will they
think that they're lazy?
Courtney Andersen (22:16):
It's exhausting, it's totally
exhausting.
So what are some underliningissues for people with this
compulsion right Like?
What are some underliningissues that people then need to
start working on?
Helen Bennett (22:33):
So let's assume that we're getting them
reconnected with their truehunger and true signals again
and they're getting really goodat honoring those.
That takes quite a bit ofpractice on its own.
Now we're actually eating andnourishing our bodies according
to our hunger and according tothe nutrients our bodies after,
and what's so cool about thatjust as an aside is that could
scare a lot of people, but whenyou try it, what is amazing is
(22:55):
when I do what I call a tummycheck-in with a client for the
first time and we really try andtune into what our tummies want
99.9, I've only had oneexception to this and I have to
assume it was because the bodywanted it that day but 99.9% of
the time what comes up when weactually tune in is what we
probably would have calledhealthy food, usually really
(23:16):
balanced, totally whole foodsalmost all the time, and just
it's very rare that whensomebody's really tuning in that
they get I need three pizzasand a burger and a bag of it.
It's just amazing.
So they get surprised andexcited by that that their
body's really quite good at thistop of eating.
And then we have to go okay,right, let's look at the
(23:36):
non-hunger eating that's goingon.
So we always want to honor thathunger.
And then let's look at thenon-hunger eating and that's
where we start digging into andwe've already started talking a
bit about this.
Firstly, usually the mentalstorm, the food noise.
A lot of that is just rulesthat are coming up again, but
(23:58):
it's also going into shame andguilt and that spirals into I'm
not enough.
And then we start digging outall the beliefs they've got
about themselves, becauseoftentimes, if anybody's
listening struggling with food,what you might notice is that we
think the food is the trigger.
Oh, it's the sweets that I'vegot in the house.
But more often than not, whenyou start to watch and notice
you go oh, my goodness, actuallyit's the thinking I've got
(24:19):
that's triggering the bingeThings like, or the overeating
things like the thought of I'veruined it, so I may as well just
finish it all.
So that's a simple one.
But then it can go as deep asyeah, you're greedy, lazy, good
for nothing, useless, disgusting, and those thoughts create so
much emotional pain in us thatwe reach for food to comfort.
Courtney Andersen (24:42):
Yeah.
Helen Bennett (24:42):
And that's when we also do the second piece and
this is the most important bitof the work.
But that's the hardest, becausethis goes back the furthest
usually to when the change inrelationship with our food began
, to the days where we startedeither overeating or dieting.
And this goes into theemotional set point where we
started to use food in a certainway to regulate our emotion,
(25:04):
from comforting ourselves orfinding connection and love
where we weren't receiving it toreleasing it.
And sometimes we're using foodto punish.
Sometimes it's a release ofanger, but we're turning it
inwards because we're using foodto punish.
Sometimes it's a release ofanger, but we're turning it
inwards because we didn't feelit was safe to let our anger out
at the people with whom we wereangry or frustrated or enraged.
So we turn it in and we startedto blame ourselves.
(25:27):
And so all that energy, thatemotional energy, instead of
being released in a reallyhealthy, appropriate way, ends
up being turned in on us andfood just becomes the tool that
we've punished ourselves with orreleased that anger.
And particularly in my case, assomebody who struggled with
purging as well as and actuallyeven the over-exercising in many
ways was a release of thatemotional energy.
(25:49):
It would often come with a muchlike we might scream or cry or
wail, and so a lot of emotionsthat maybe we felt we weren't
allowed to express.
As women particularly, we'renot meant to be greedy or bossy
or angry, and in some familiesif you cried it was, I'll give
you something to cry about.
Put those tears away.
Put on a smiley face.
(26:09):
Don't feel so sorry foryourself.
You're too sensitive.
So emotions we were taught whenwe were young.
We weren't allowed.
We've found ways to suppressthem or navigate them or manage
them with food.
But also sometimes it's assimple as we didn't have
unconditional love or comfortwhen we needed it and nobody to
give us a hug when we needed oneas a little boy or girl, and
(26:31):
food became a comfort.
So it's playing all thesedifferent roles so appropriately
, and that emotional one isinteresting because what the
diet and the fitness industrywill never tell you is that your
emotional needs will dominatewhat you want for your body and
your physique and yourrelationship with food every day
.
Imagine as I'm talking.
I'm so intrigued.
(26:51):
Courtney, there must be so muchsimilarity here with the
clients that you work with andthe people that are listening to
this podcast who struggle withalcohol.
Courtney Andersen (27:00):
Yes, it's all of it and the majority of all
of my one-on-one clients sinceI've been doing this since 2019,
there was probably 90% of themit's always a food issue first
and then goes to alcohol.
But, yes, of all what you justsaid, it's like you just find
(27:20):
that thing and what makes youfeel, what can numb it out,
right?
So for a lot of people it'swere not met in those years,
right?
Or if you had physical trauma,emotional trauma, it all goes
(27:45):
back to that for the most part.
Or at some point in later ondown the years that you were
trying to get an emotional needmet, met and then you started
with alcohol, right, yes?
And then that habit Jumps, thenbecomes a problem because
(28:08):
nobody starts eating and they'relike I hope I have an eating
problem later in their life.
Same thing with drinking Nobodygoes into it, being like I'm
thinking that they're going tohave a drinking problem down the
road.
You just don't, but you're usingthis in a way to again go back
to the emotional needs.
What you all said about thefood thing, exactly needs.
(28:35):
What you all said about thefood thing, exactly how I used
it and why I used it.
It actually started because itgoes back to my parents got
divorced at seven and at thattime, from that point on, there
was never food in my mom's house.
And then on the weekends therewas never food in my mom's house
.
And then on the weekends theremy dad supplied us like he would
(28:58):
let me bake, right.
So then I'm like, which wasfine, it wasn't, like it was
something for me to do over athis apartment.
And then we got we would go toBlockbuster Video.
God, I wish that place wouldcome back.
And then it was like I can getcandy over there, right.
So for many years I lived in arestricted right With no food
and then binge.
(29:18):
So for many years that's all Iknew.
And then I went into my alcoholaddiction and then being hung
over or being drunk.
There was never a healthyrelationship with food, because
I was on that cycle right.
So again, many years of tryingto heal this relationship with
(29:40):
food, and I was getting there,and then the world shut down in
2020.
Helen Bennett (29:48):
That was either the best thing for people with a
troubled relationship with foodor the worst.
Courtney Andersen (29:52):
Yeah, so like from about 33 up until what was
I like 37.
When that happened it was like,okay, I was getting into the
groove and then that happened,and then it's like I started
eating like a five-year-old,when you went to the grocery
store, all that was left wasstuff like that and it was like,
(30:12):
okay, when that first wave ofstuff shutting down.
I remember going to the grocerystore and leaving and crying
and being like and spending $300just on bullshit Because I'm
like what is happening here andwhat if this gets worse?
And this is, I'm eating ho,ho-ho.
I have no idea what a ho-ho is,but it sounds terrible.
Helen Bennett (30:34):
Yeah, like, just like, a like a little it's like
a little cupcake, okay, a hosted, yeah, all right copy okay.
Courtney Andersen (30:41):
I got it yeah and then and then from then and
then I had my son at 38 andthen that first year of
motherhood I would remember somedays of just like if there were
days where he would cry, he gotinto a colicky phase Like I
would go to the cabinets and myhusband's a big fan of Reese's
(31:02):
peanut butter cups and that'sfine, I would, and they're
delicious, but I would slam likefour to five Reese's peanut
butter cups and I remember beinglike four to five Reese's
peanut butter cups.
Helen Bennett (31:15):
And I remember being like I'm better.
Oh, there it is.
Isn't that lovely that release.
That's what we're looking for.
Courtney Andersen (31:19):
Yes.
And then the same thing at apoint in my journey.
Then, too, I had gained 50pounds with I call my son the
dictator on air, but I've gained50 pounds with that.
Previous to that, I was 20pounds heavier because of 2020.
So 70 pounds on my frame, andin those first couple of years
(31:47):
it's like then I was miserableand then went again into the
shaming of like what is wrongand then trying and nothing was
happening because, also, too, mycore's all spiked.
And then now, in the past yearof again starting to take care
of myself and re-heal thatrelationship with food right and
just, and looking at it more ofa thing of being for myself, of
(32:08):
using food for fuel right,allowing myself because I'm with
when it comes to food like that, it's like I don't want to even
say moderation.
I don't even want to say thatall foods are bad for you.
I don't, because it goes backon that intuitive eating, like
if you need a cupcake and thatis what your body is craving.
Helen Bennett (32:28):
Yeah, it's the best thing you can have.
Courtney Andersen (32:30):
You can have it right, Because you have to
start giving yourself some graceand being like, stop the
madness in your head and workingthrough that process.
Helen Bennett (32:43):
Yeah, yeah.
I'm so glad you mentioned thatbecause it's hard to imagine for
anybody struggling, and if youtold me I don't know 15 years
ago, maybe even 10 years ago,that I'd be able to have all
these foods that used to be sohard to resist.
Courtney Andersen (32:57):
Yeah.
Helen Bennett (32:57):
Say the Reese's Pieces kind of thing.
You know those that.
If that had been in the house.
That was gone.
Yeah, it had to be gone becauseI couldn't bear the food noise,
because I was always thinkingabout it, because I'd be so
restricted food noise, because Iwas always thinking about it,
because I'd be so restricted,yeah, and told it was bad and I
was probably hungry, to behonest too, but that food had to
be gone.
I just couldn't bear, Icouldn't sit.
Still, it would call to me toif you told me it was possible.
(33:19):
See this, oh, this is what's solovely about food as opposed to
alcohol, from my understanding,because we hear words like food
is addictive or there's certainfoods that are addictive.
we can make the mistake ofthinking that we have to go
completely cold turkey out then.
But in my experience, most ofthe clients that I work with
maybe with some very smallexceptions, in very specific
ways, but most people will comein and they'll say I'm addicted
(33:42):
to sugar.
I'm addicted or I can't stop.
Once I start eating chocolate,I can't stop.
And they can absolutely get tothe point where right now, like
I and I couldn't have believedthis was possible can have those
foods in the house.
I'm hungry, I'll eat them ifthat's what I want, if that's
what my tummy wants.
Or maybe I just want to indulgeand enjoy the flavor and move on
with my day.
Because you know what, if Ihave a ho-ho I can't get enough
(34:03):
of that word then I'm going toprobably just be a little bit
fuller for longer, or I'm goingto have more energy later, or
maybe I'll find myself with moremental energy.
Our bodies are so clever.
When we do over-consume, whenwe go beyond our fullness, or
when we eat something that'smaybe not ideal, but it tasted
great at the time and we savoredit and enjoyed it, our body's
brilliant.
It'll find ways to make senseof that.
(34:25):
Maybe we sleep a bit longer orwe just awake a bit more, but
it's so lovely as you start tosee.
Oh, my body knew exactly whatto do with that.
So we're not saying, oh, junkfood or processed food is good
for you.
We're not saying that Obviouslythere's some health impacts to
those foods, particularly ifthey're over consumed.
But when we're listening to ourbodies, we can create a really
peaceful relationship with them.
Where there's no requisite, Ishould only have one.
(34:47):
Because where there's norequisite, I should only have
one, because, again, we've tunedin.
And when we oh, this is thebest bit of starting to tune
into that hunger is.
We notice that the longersomebody's doing that work of
listening to their tummy'shunger and really trying to
honor what the tummy asks for,regardless of what it is, those
foods start to become lessenjoyable.
It's so weird.
I don't know what's going on.
(35:08):
I don't know the science behindthis, but I see it every time
and over time people come andsay, yeah, I had some chocolate,
but it was just a bit meh, soit's not.
Oh, I'm trying to stop myself.
It becomes no, I didn't enjoythat at all and it's so
authentic, it's not restrictive.
We hear people say that, butthey're just trying to stop
(35:28):
themselves.
It's actually when it comesfrom the inside and you can hear
they just think oh no, Icouldn't be fussed with that
because I didn't enjoy it thelast time I ate it.
And it's interesting that thelonger they do this work, all of
those foods just start tobecome.
You could have them in thehouse because they just don't
call to you, because youwouldn't necessarily choose them
if you could have analternative.
But, as you said, if you needone, your tummy's calling for
(35:52):
some chocolate or something andyou can hear it's tummy hunger.
Courtney Andersen (35:54):
eat it, because you're going to get that
satisfaction, then you can moveon Right, right.
Yeah, it's kind of the samething too with alcohol.
When it's like, especially whenpeople, a lot of people, who
say they're going to quitdrinking it's not right off that
first time they say it, and I'msure you've seen this with
clients too, where this is aprocess, this is a lot of years
(36:14):
on unwiring your brain right andcreating new relationships and
whatnot.
It's the same thing for alcohol, no-transcript, like it has
(36:47):
taken me three days now torecover because you're not
putting that into your bodyanymore.
And it's the same thing whenyou start eating foods that
don't really agree with you andI mean after 40, all of this
stuff changes too With foodsagreeing with you, like why are
you going to keep eating stuffthat gives you heartburn, right,
(37:07):
or like, or migraines, or justwhere you're or where maybe you
were just on the toilet all thenext day, like what fun is that
anymore?
Helen Bennett (37:16):
And.
Courtney Andersen (37:16):
I think, as people get older and start
healing their relationshipwithin themselves, right that
it's not fun anymore to put thisstuff into your body that makes
you feel like garbage.
Helen Bennett (37:28):
Yes, and, as you said, like as you're doing all
the other work, that rewiring,that takes time.
I love that you've said as well.
It's a process, it's not anovernight thing, and
particularly with food, becausewe can't cut it out, because we
have no capacity to cut it out,oh my gosh, there'll be so many
mistakes, so many overeatingmoments, so many little blowouts
.
But what we do with this workbecause we can't put it down is,
(37:51):
I mean, I'm sort ofpsychotically excited when
somebody has a bit of a blowout,because it means something
really important was underneaththat yes, that we can heal, and
that's all it ever means is, oh,there's emotion that we've
still got to work on healing orregulating, or there's a belief
there that really tripped you up, or something said some,
somebody said something.
You just know how to put down aboundary or say no and stand up
for yourself, or whatever it is.
(38:12):
But when somebody's overeaten,it always means there's
something that needs work.
And I've just thought ofsomething that's actually so
important to this conversation.
So we work on connecting withhunger, we work with the mental.
What are the beliefs, what arethe stories that are tripping us
up?
We work on the emotional, butthere's one that I now focus on
almost more than the others,initially, and that's getting us
(38:33):
some damn rest, because thewomen that reach out, the women
who seem to struggle and menwith overeating, are absolutely
chronically exhausted becausethey are just doing everything
for everybody else.
They cannot put themselvesfirst.
It doesn't feel safe to putthemselves first, and if they
rest they call themselves lazyand they're actually exhausted.
Courtney Andersen (38:54):
Well, listen, sometimes my clients they might
get sick of me saying it, butI'm like rest, go to bed.
Go to bed, shut your brain up,get your ass into bed at 7pm if
you can.
If you need to put the kidsdown early, put them down early.
Get to sleep Because, two, yourbody is going through a detox
(39:19):
period, right, like withquitting drinking alcohol.
But it's not just that, it'sthe years of hustling the way
that people have right for solong, and you get to this point
where you're just mentallyexhausted Because and this is as
we talk about it you aredescribing high achievers, you
are describing people pleaserscast right, and isn't it fucked
(39:42):
up that there's so many more ofthese people out there than
there are not?
If you look at your clientroster and the people that you
help, I'm sure it's all of that.
Helen Bennett (39:54):
Oh no, everybody fits that exact description.
Courtney Andersen (39:56):
Yes, and that people there's so many people
who came from families wheretheir emotional needs were not
met.
Helen Bennett (40:05):
Yeah, tons, yes, mind-blowing.
It is mind-blowing.
I mean, this is the big thingOnce we become, once we do this
work forces, because otherwisewe'll just addiction jump.
If we're not doing the work toheal the deeper wounds, to deal
with those stories, the beliefs,all the self-loathing and the
self-criticism and the inabilityto regulate and comfort
(40:26):
ourselves in ways that areappropriate, if we're not doing
that, it'll just jump tosomething new, which is what
you've said.
But it's interesting, isn't it?
I always find what makes peoplepleasers.
Specifically, I don't know asingle client that I've worked
with who wouldn't definethemselves as a people pleaser,
and one of the things that Icame to was I think a people
pleaser is somebody who hasrealized at a very young age
(40:50):
that they can't be themselves,and certainly in the way we're
talking about, in terms ofexpressing certain emotions that
could potentially, if weexpress them, lead to a kind of
rejection or abandonment fromone of our caregivers.
And so we tend to just bequietly alone with all of these
emotions and because the body'sgot to figure out a way to deal
(41:11):
with it, it does.
We start, maybe we dive intobooks or we become obsessed with
the boy band For me it was NewKids on the Block Anything to
regulate and to experience love,connection, all those things
and then it was things likecutting and then slowly became
binge eating and bulimia.
We have these sort of reallyhealthy ways that we stumble
into to cope and unhealthy ways.
But we have these sort ofreally healthy ways that we
stumble into to cope andunhealthy ways.
But what's interesting aboutovereaters and people pleasing?
(41:33):
Specifically the correlationthere and maybe this would also
correlate with the quiet, silent, functional, alcoholic type
personality where thedestruction is turned inwards in
a way that couldn't negativelyimpact anybody else until it
does.
So eating is interestingbecause I don't really have
clients who reach out who'vemaybe struggled with I don't
(41:55):
know how to define this but likethe kind of addictions that are
wild, I don't have people reachout to me who became the kind
of addicts that were aggressiveand drove drunk and that's kind
of wild.
The way we see it in the movies.
It tends to be quiet, silent,secretive, because that way they
can experience all they need todo or hurt themselves in a way
(42:16):
that doesn't impact anybody elseuntil it gets so bad that it
does.
Courtney Andersen (42:20):
Self-sabotage .
Helen Bennett (42:22):
Yeah, well, it's interesting that because my
frame on self-sabotage is wenever self-sabotage, we're
always meeting our needs.
It looks like self-sabotage iswe never self-sabotage, we're
always meeting our needs.
It looks like self-sabotagebecause you think why would we
do that, why would I put that inmy body?
But actually there's thisdeeper need begging, begging,
please, please.
I need to be seen experience.
And sometimes it's just rest,like we were just saying like
(42:44):
just get to bed, just go to bed.
And sometimes it goes muchdeeper than that.
Courtney Andersen (42:48):
Yeah, take a nap.
Take a nap If you can like,even if you can't nap, lay in
your bed and just stare up atthe ceiling.
I mean, I call this thing toweltime after I get out of the
shower, and I used to be able todo it a lot more before the
little dictator came along.
But like now, it's like take ashower, I get in my robe with
(43:10):
the towel on my head and I justlay in my bed and sit up at the
ceiling and it is sorejuvenating.
I can't eat because it's likeyou just got back from a spa of
some sorts and it's great.
Helen Bennett (43:20):
I love that.
I love it, and I imagine thatmust be so hard to do for
anybody who is not used tohaving time for themselves.
Yeah, especially if they've gota little dictator of their own,
or for you.
Courtney Andersen (43:39):
But once you do it, once not even
specifically that, but once youstart taking the time to rest,
for yourself, to rest, torejuvenate, even if it's 30
minutes, before you then have togo from your nine to five to
your five to nine, whatever thatlooks like, even if it's just
30 minutes.
When you start doing that moreand taking that time for
yourself just to be quiet, notget on your phone, not do
anything, it's going to beuncomfortable at first, but once
(44:01):
you start doing that to protectyour energy, you can start
craving this stuff.
Helen Bennett (44:06):
Yeah, gosh, it's so true, and it's such a game
changer.
The benefits are so worth it.
Yeah, gosh, it's so true, andit's such a game changer, the
benefits are so worth it.
So it's first somebody mightstruggle even to find five
minutes, but as they start tosee the benefits of that and
here's the thing, oh, this willbe the same for alcohol I'm sure
it's oftentimes the one momentin their day where they're
getting a break yes, so actuallythey just really need a break
(44:28):
but also where they're kind ofdoing something rebellious and
playful for themselves, becauseeverything else is to do,
everything else isresponsibility.
And what we see is when I askclients question like what do
you do for fun, what do you dofor play?
Nothing, nothing.
It's.
It's almost like a oh scrollsocial media and then it, just
because maybe it's just one ofthose rare moments in the day
(44:51):
where that little rebel that'sinside us that's going.
I just want to not be doingsomething for everybody else for
once.
Yeah, go start screaming andgoing I'm gonna get my play time
and I'm gonna.
I'm gonna override you and I'mgonna get you to walk and do
something really bad whatever,but it's that one moment where
there's a break in the workload,because often we oh, we've got
to get good sleep and that'sgreat, but sometimes it's just
(45:13):
stepping outside and doingsomething silly or whatever.
Everybody will be differentBecause, as a human being, we
need play.
We're not meant to beresponsible, because I think we
think of it as like I've got towork and then I eat a perfect
meal and then I go to bed, andactually it's like, yes, we've
got to work, perfect meal.
And then I go to bed andactually it's like, yes, we've
got to work, we've got to eatgreat food.
We've got to get good sleep, butwe also have some time for play
(45:33):
for just being silly and doingwhatever the hell we want.
It's got nothing to do withproductivity.
Yeah, because people say oh no,but I'll do meditation.
No, that sounds like work to meStop Right, right.
Courtney Andersen (45:43):
Yeah, we're not meant it's robotic and we're
not meant to be, we're notmeant to be connected 24-7,
right, so all of that, but I dothink a lot more, and I think
it's come in the past couple ofyears of just an awakening of
people where it's like thepeople are starting to get it
like I don't want to beconnected 24-7.
(46:04):
Like.
This sounds like this is anightmare, right, I don't want
to share everything on socialmedia, so I think there is more
people tuning into disconnecting.
Helen Bennett (46:15):
Yeah, disconnecting and letting go,
yeah, frivolous and fun.
Courtney Andersen (46:19):
Yes.
So what are three tips to helpsomeone who you know in their
food journey?
Helen Bennett (46:24):
food freedom journey.
The first thing I always, thefirst thing I always like to
share I don't know if it's a tip, so much as just something to
take on board if you can isoftentimes we come at it that
when I can eat a certain way,when I can look a certain way,
then I will love myself, thenI'll be deserving of my own love
(46:45):
and care and my own respect.
And one of the things I justcan't express enough is start
now In South Africa because, youcan hear, I'm South African by
birth, though I live in Spainthere's a phrase, futz-tutz,
which is as is with all thepatent and latent defects, and
when you buy a house you buy itfutz-tutz unless you don't, but
(47:05):
usually you do.
And I love this idea of tryingand practicing and learning the
art or the skill of acceptingourselves footstuts, so not
waiting to be alcohol free orwaiting to be have a great
relationship with food and tofeel that we are deserving of
our own love and respect.
It's not always love, but if wecan just start with a little
(47:27):
bit of enoughness and just keeptrying to bring yourself back to
that, I can respect even that.
I'm on this journey and I'mdoing this work today, even if
it's all messy, because thefundamental what I see is you
peel back the onion deeper anddeeper.
As you do this work, we alwaysget to one thing right at the
middle, which is I'm not enoughand I'm not lovable.
Those two, it's sort of allpart of the same thing.
(47:49):
I'm not lovable, those two,it's sort of all part of the
same thing.
I'm not thin enough, sexyenough, whatever, smart enough
enough and therefore I can't beloved.
And the work requires that webegin to build and it's a build
because it doesn't happenovernight the ability to love
ourselves through all of it,through all the mess, because
life will remain messy andthere'll be better quality
problems once we've changed ourrelationship with food and our
(48:09):
ability to not self-reject andnot self-abandon in the way we
were abandoned, however thatmeans for everybody is
absolutely critical.
So I'll say that up front,because it's such an important
part of the journey.
But then just some practicalthings.
Oh, there's so many, so manyways to go with this.
Okay, the second one I'dprobably actually know the
(48:29):
second one's probably just gonnabe get some rest, damn it
please I think we've said somuch no, keep saying it, keep
saying it yeah start to try andprioritize you.
That'll be number two.
So when you're doing this work,again, people pleases.
Busy moms have a habit of sortof coming to the calls but not
necessarily finding the time toput themselves first to do the
(48:51):
work, to do the tummy check-ins,whatever.
And it's such a necessity tocarve out, no matter how hard it
is time for you, because wecannot learn anything or change
anything if we're not puttingtime and energy into it.
And these are the things we'reterribly deficient of when we
come into them.
That's why we're often usingfood to cope.
So actually, number two is startprioritizing this work and you.
(49:14):
And maybe that looks like sleep, or maybe it looks like doing
the homework, or because all ofthis is skills and drills and
nobody would say, oh, I want tolearn French, I'm just going to
attend a class once a week andhope for the best.
You have to practice it, whichrequires prioritizing it, right,
right, I mean, you'd learn itjust very slowly.
So prioritizing you.
And then the third one is justa really practical thing.
(49:35):
And this actually goes off oursabotage discussion, one of the
most powerful questions, becausemost people will be able to
start to hear maybe just afterthis they start suddenly hearing
that difference between am Ieating for hunger or am I
non-hunger eating?
So if it's non-hunger, you'renot hungry, but you're eating
anyway and you're actually ableto catch it.
The most powerful question youcan ask and the answer will be
(49:58):
perfect and blow you away is iffood's not what I need, what do
I need?
And it's as simple as that,because if I'm not hungry, it's
not food that I need, so food'snot what I need.
What do I need?
And as you ask that question,it's astounding how that little
intuition goes a rest, a break,a hug and it will give you
(50:19):
exactly the answer.
And we're not always able to getit like if it's a hug yeah and
it's the covid and we're allalone, yeah, but at least we're
getting clear on what need foodis trying to meet for us and we
can be so much morecompassionate with ourselves.
So if somebody just wants tostart somewhere, that's a great
place.
If they find themselvesnon-hunger eating, just ask if
(50:40):
food's not what I need andlisten and the first thing that
comes in even if it's crazy,it's probably going to be it and
then you just got to try andgive yourself whatever you just
heard.
Courtney Andersen (50:48):
Right, right, I love it, I love it.
Thank you so much for all ofyour wisdom.
I really enjoyed thisconversation.
Where can people find you ifthey want to connect with you?
Helen Bennett (51:00):
People can find me at helenbennettco, but
actually there's an easier one.
You can go tofoodfreedomfoundationscom and
that'll just link straight to mywebsite because my name's a bit
hard to spell.
But otherwise I'm on all thesocials at Coach Helen Bennett,
Simple as that.
Be lovely to connect.
Courtney Andersen (51:17):
Okay, perfect .
I will put all of yourinformation in the show notes
below, and thank you again.
I really enjoyed thisconversation.
Helen Bennett (51:23):
Thank you, courtney, it was so lovely to
chat to you, really really cool.
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