February 21, 2025 • 43 mins
Family Planning – not what you are probably thinking? – Families talk about finances
in different ways. Some are incredibly open about the realities of their financial
situations; some only discuss it when they need to; others consider talking about money
as off-limits. If your family isn’t having open and honest conversations about finances
and wealth, it’s time to reevaluate. Chris Boyd and Jeff Perry dig into these issues and
more as they offer their commentary and advice on including family members in your
financial and estate planning. See related article linked below:
https://www.wealthenhancement.com/s/blog/empowering-your-future-financial-planning-
for-parents-with-adult-children-MC2WSGEA7ZQVCOXA2OJ5DP3ZAQPA
For more information or to reach Chris Boyd or Jeff Perry, click the following link:
https://www.wealthenhancement.com/s/advisor-teams/amr
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Something More with Chris Boyd.
Chris Boyd is a certified financial planner, practitioner,
and senior vice president and financial advisor at
Wealth Enhancement Group, one of the nation's largest
registered investment advisors.
We call it Something More because we'd like
to talk not only about those important dollar
and cents issues, but also the quality of
life issues that make the money matters matter.
(00:22):
Here he is, your fulfillment facilitator, your partner
in prosperity, advising clients on Cape Cod and
across the country.
Here's your host, Jay Christopher Boyd.
Welcome everybody.
This is Something More with Chris Boyd.
I'm Chris Boyd here with Jeff Perry.
We are the AMR team at Wealth Enhancement
Group and glad to have you joining us.
(00:42):
We've got a good topic today.
A little surprising to me, Jeff, that we're
talking about family planning.
I know.
Well, it's important.
It's important to plan for your family.
But I don't think this is what people
are thinking.
When I think of that, I think in
terms of something like birth control or something.
(01:03):
That's not what we're talking about.
Oh, it's been in the news quite a
bit.
The recent campaigns and the social issues that
are out there, people see family planning and
think, what are they going to talk about?
What side are they on?
We're talking about financial planning for your family,
estate planning, all the kind of planning that
(01:23):
goes into thinking about maybe intergenerational wealth and
the related issues.
Is that what I'm talking about?
Okay.
We can talk about that.
That's fine.
All right.
I think we're both probably past that.
We have families.
We love our families.
I'm worried about these issues.
(01:43):
No, not so much.
It's interesting.
This topic's been on our radar for a
while.
Lisa and I, we just did some amendments
to our estate plan.
I thought about this issue.
You're getting older.
You start to think more about your estate
plan, which is part of it, and your
(02:04):
financial plan, which we've always kind of thought
about.
But you think about it as you get
older, like when I pass and my executor
or trustee, how is all this going to
happen?
I guess the general prudent advice out there,
(02:25):
and we can dig into the details, is
you should tell your family about what your
finances are generally and the outline of your
estate plan.
We'll dig into this.
Yeah, let's talk about that.
Do you agree with that generally?
I think generally it is a good practice.
(02:45):
I understand there are instances where families have
different concerns about family members' ability to handle
money and whether they really want them to.
Well, I think sometimes one of the challenges,
Jeff, is if someone, maybe a degree of
wealth.
(03:07):
I've talked with business owners who would be
like, I'm not going to give it all
to the kids.
I don't want them to know they are
getting that much.
Kind of take away their motivation.
I don't want them to, yeah, exactly.
I don't want them to stall out and
think, I don't have to worry about it.
I'll ride the wave until...
(03:28):
That kind of notion, right?
Sometimes I think that's part of why people
are closer to the vest.
Other times it may be that they feel
like, oh, I wish there was more and
I'm a little bit conscious of my wealth
(03:49):
isn't as much as I'd like it to
be, that kind of thing.
They feel like, that was not that much
to talk about anyway.
I think these are sometimes inhibitors, right?
But big picture, I think it is a
good practice to talk about, what are you
planning?
In that case where someone has substantial money,
(04:09):
that business owner, in the case I was
scenario, I was imagining, recalling.
Well, it's still good to be clear what
your expectations are because what if they're thinking
they're coming into big money and they're not?
You know, better for them to know that
you've got your plan, whatever it is.
(04:35):
I think sometimes too, in the case of
like that, where there's philanthropy involved, that's a
value expression as well.
I think that's something you want to engage
your family in and talk about the notion
that as part of our value system, we
believe in helping our community and here's how
(04:58):
we're going to do it or whatever it
might be, right?
To whom much is given, much is expected,
that kind of notion.
But that can be, when we talk about
legacy, Jeff, we often think about it and
talk about it in terms of financial terms,
what we're, how we're leaving wealth to one
(05:20):
or another, you know, individual.
When legacy can be other things too, it's
values, it's stories, it's other things.
So off track a little bit, but I
think talking about these issues is important because
it can help families to have a greater
(05:41):
awareness of what's intended.
And sometimes it can also be part of
that process of clearly delineating value systems and
things like that.
When it comes to talking about what's intended,
I think that's really important to have some
clarity of here's what we have in mind
(06:04):
for our plan.
Like let's talk about the state plan for
a minute.
You know, sometimes families, and I think we've
talked about this on the show before, sometimes
families just pick the oldest.
Oh, they're going to be the one to
settle my affairs.
It's not always the right person, but sometimes
(06:26):
that's, and if that's what you're doing and
why, and there's somebody else who's involved in
your day-to-day and they're living right
nearby, well, I think it's important to talk
to them about it and say, well, Johnny's
the oldest or whatever.
It's almost like a pick that will not
create strife because it's the expected pick, right?
(06:46):
Maybe so.
It may not be the best choice and
it might be worth talking about why that
would or wouldn't be, but I think it
also could help to alleviate tensions if parents
elaborate on what they had in mind and
(07:08):
why.
A lot of times what happens when a
passing of a parent is old tensions bubble
up within the family.
Absolutely.
And mom always did, dad always did, this
kind of thing.
You always were the whatever, right?
And by having some of these conversations with
(07:31):
the family, you can elaborate on your thinking
and have it as an opportunity not to
convey any kind of confusion around, hey, but
I still love each of you, that kind
of thing.
(07:53):
But let's talk about roles and who should
do what kind of consideration.
Yep.
So, this is really individual.
We're talking about families generically.
Sometimes it's one child, sometimes it's 10 children,
sometimes it's businesses involved.
And so, let's just start with the conversation
about a simple plan where it's a married
(08:15):
couple.
They have means, so they have assets and
they own a house and they have investments
and IRAs, but there's nothing odd.
I think we'll get into some of the
oddities in a few minutes.
Yeah, that's a good point.
Yeah.
But there's no unique circumstances.
It's a standard two kids.
Yeah, let's keep it simple.
(08:35):
Yep.
And so, they're creating, they have their financial
plan and they have their estate plan.
We'll start with the estate plan.
And they're picking one to be the executor
of their will or trustee of their successor
trustee.
And they're picking a healthcare proxy and power
of attorney.
So, they have these three kind of decisions
to make.
So, some of those are financial and some
(08:58):
are healthcare.
That's correct.
So, the first one they're picking is the
executor or personal representative or trustee who's going
to handle the distribution of their assets when
they both pass.
Right.
So, that might be thought of like who's
good at accounting, who's good at finances.
(09:19):
Details.
Maybe who's got some experience with handling money.
You might think along those lines.
Do you agree?
I definitely agree.
And sometimes they default to the older.
And sometimes I've seen, including very recently, which
has not turned out very well for this
particular sibling mix, where both were named.
(09:43):
Oh, yeah.
That's tough.
That's right.
So, co-executives or co-trustees.
And depending on the language of, let's call
it a trust or a will, but depending
on the language of the document, it's likely
that they both have to agree.
And so, I think that's the worst idea
of anything we're going to talk about.
I agree with you.
(10:04):
As much as I get to thinking is
that, oh, that'll be more collaborative.
They'll both have the chance to agree on
things.
They can work together.
Behind that kind of mindset.
It's not heavy handed, but it does raise
the potential, a greater potential for a contest
(10:26):
of wills.
No pun intended.
But with the notion that people might butt
heads a little bit of, no, it should
be this and no, it should be that.
Okay.
So, pick one, generally.
Pick one or go outside to a non
-child.
(10:46):
You don't want it to be a family
tension issue.
Maybe a professional lawyer or whoever might be
could be a good choice in this case.
So, you talked about it in terms of
passing one's death, right?
But the trust or the power of attorney
(11:09):
plays that role while you're alive.
If you become incapacitated.
Incapacitated kind of situation.
And that could be relevant as well.
Who's going to pay my bills?
Who's going to be keeping everything, the ship
running, so to speak.
(11:31):
And this brings into the notion of not
only the financial acumen, but also proximity.
Who's going to be tuned in to my
issues locally, maybe.
Could also be relevant.
Yep.
(11:51):
Absolutely.
It is relevant.
And it's usually the same person, I think,
who is the executive person or representative and
power of attorney.
We're not talking about the healthcare proxy.
But I think there's usually, if you have
in our simple scenario, if you have two
siblings, usually one of them is more organized.
One of them is better with money.
(12:12):
One of them is closer.
Hopefully all those things are the same.
Yeah.
They may not all be the same, right?
That's right.
So it's important.
And it's really important to...
This seems obvious, but I'm sure you've come
across it before.
We're talking about communicating with your family is
after you and your spouse decide who these
(12:33):
people should be, is you should talk to
that person.
You should give them a copy of the
documents.
You should explain, you should say...
What's expected of them and are they willing
to do that?
Right.
And so I'll just share something personal, which
is in line with this.
We just amended some documents.
We changed a successor trustee on our trust.
(12:58):
And so giving this new successor trustee copies
of the documents, explaining what our intent is
in certain areas that they're not ambiguous, but
just adding some color, some detail and giving
the successor trustee your name, for example, and
the name of an attorney that they should
(13:21):
go to for guidance.
The name of all the beneficiaries is in
the trust, but how about contact information of
the beneficiaries?
That's not typically in the documents.
It may say Johnny Jones of Boston, Massachusetts,
but do you have a phone number and
an email for him or her?
And so reviewing from 10,000 feet, not
(13:43):
every particular line, but reviewing your wishes and
why you're doing things and what your intent
is with your person that's going to carry
out your wishes, either when you're incapacitated or
you passed, I think is super important.
I think that's a good point.
So you lay it out in front of
(14:03):
them.
Along those lines, do you want to transition
to the healthcare considerations?
I mean, I think that's just as important
for some of that conversation.
We talked a little bit about this not
long ago when talking about a television show
that we were watching.
The Pit.
Yeah.
(14:24):
Did you end up watching any of that?
We are current because the only release on
a week.
It's a good show.
And in episodes two and three, it carried
over maybe even to four, just for the
listeners who weren't tuned into that podcast.
There is a person that has an older
(14:46):
man and I guess he's a parent, right?
Yeah.
And near death.
Two siblings, a male and a female.
The female is more assertive, we'll say.
And they don't agree on the end of
life and how it should happen.
And this whole two persons versus one.
(15:09):
Right.
There's another example of that.
The healthcare proxy, I think it creates the
potential for problems.
We won't go into the particulars of that
show again, but the concept of a healthcare
proxy is who's going to make decisions for
me if I'm not able to.
Right.
And some jurisdictions prefer an agent to the
(15:32):
healthcare proxy.
Other jurisdictions prefer written directives.
But both are that notion of what's intended.
What do I want to see happen?
And different people have different perspectives on this.
Sometimes it's like, pull out all the stops,
man.
(15:53):
As my friend said, when you're dead, you're
dead.
Got to give them a chance, right?
Yeah.
So that's one.
And then the other is, well, if I'm
at a certain age, maybe I think I've
had a good life.
I don't necessarily want to be on machines
and prolonged indefinitely.
And maybe if there's certain cognitive decline, you
(16:15):
might not want to be having life extended
just indefinitely, you know, that kind of thing.
And so there may be some thoughts around
what do I want, that, and will someone
adhere to your wishes?
Will they know what you want and follow
(16:42):
those wishes, which was a part of that
episode.
Right.
And so, you know, just going off the
episode, but this is real life type of
stuff.
If you put in your healthcare proxy, your
wishes, and, you know, say you don't want
extraordinary means used, you know, you don't want
to pull out all the stops, so to
speak, which is one of the choices that
(17:04):
people use commonly.
I think it's a lot more powerful that
if you have that discussion following, you know,
you've made this document, you've gone through that
whole process and you give a copy to
your healthcare proxy, hopefully it's one person and
not two.
An alternate is fine in case person number
(17:26):
one's not available.
Right.
But, and you actually have the conversation with
them that I prepared this document.
This is my wishes.
I think that goes, it just magnifies the
document because without it, you know, in healthcare
proxy has this document and they're reading it,
but in there in this emotional moment and
they're not really fully prepared to just, you
(17:49):
know, be the judge, if you will, and
just go by the letter of the four
corners of the document, they have so many
other emotions and wondering if you really meant
that, did you understand it?
But if you had told this person, this
is my situation, this is my health, this
is my decision.
I want you to honor it.
I think it would just be so much
more powerful to the healthcare proxy and so
(18:11):
much more, I don't know how to say
it, but it's a more of a gift
to the healthcare proxy that you've had that
conversation and you're relieving some of that burden
from having to make that decision.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can see how this could lead to
family tensions, can't you?
(18:31):
How some of these challenging decisions and, you
know, trying to fulfill someone's wishes could be
challenging, you know?
So this goes back to, you know, what
we started with, the conversations about this, the
(18:53):
planning that goes into this.
And, you know, as you were describing that
and saying, it's important to talk to the
person who's going to take on that role.
But let's say in that imaginary family of
four, mom, dad, son, daughter, it's actually important
(19:17):
for mom and or dad to talk to
not only the person who's going to be
making the decisions, but also the person who's
not so that they also know those intentions
because they might be more inclined to be
accommodating to them if they understand what's desired.
(19:39):
That's a great point.
And, you know, ideally that conversation happens with
all four of those people in the room
at the same time, right?
So there's no like, well, I don't know
what you really said to the other sibling.
Yeah.
You might've pressured, you know, no sense of
like, oh, you were pressuring them or something
like that.
Right.
(20:00):
I'm in favor of all these family communications.
I think they're important.
I think it gets, I think we're talking
about the easy stuff so far.
It's not easy, but the easier stuff.
I guess, how far do you go though?
I mean, that's where we get into the,
you know, and the real special circumstances.
(20:22):
So say you have, just keep with our
example, let's say during the life of this
family, the son in this case had some
struggles along the way.
So mom and dad helped him out.
You know, maybe he was unemployed for a
while, maybe he got a divorce and there
were times when he needed some extra funds
and, you know, whether or not the sister
(20:44):
knows this happened, right?
Right.
Yeah.
How, how do you handle that in a
way that's fair?
Equal is not always fair or fair.
We, we, we often like make reference to
that.
It can be that fair is equal, but
(21:06):
it's not always that fair is equal.
Let's say in our hypothetical, you know, the
daughter is highly successful professional, financially secure.
Um, and well off, whereas, uh, Sonny's been
(21:27):
struggling.
He's been bouncing around.
Yeah.
You know, so what's, what's fair in that
scenario?
Um, equal might be fair, but there might
be a sense of, well, I think, um,
Sonny needs a little bit more help, you
know, that kind of thing, you know, so
that, but maybe we'll keep it in a
trust and not necessarily give that money to
(21:49):
Sonny to, because he's not as good with
money or whatever it might be.
Right.
So there's no right or wrong answer for
mom and dad here.
It's, it's, it's their money, their assets.
They get to decide, but the tough part
is what do you communicate?
Because if you, you gotta make sure you're
saying something to daughter in that scenario that
(22:10):
says, you know, I love you.
Right.
You know, but look, look how well you've
done.
We have total confidence.
You're fine.
You know what I mean?
If they hear that, that's one thing and
they say, okay, therefore I'm doing something different
than what might seem fair, uh, equal.
(22:32):
Um, or if they just find out at
the reading of the will, what the hell,
you know, they might feel like they've been
slighted somehow.
The daughter could very well feel less than,
right?
Yeah.
And more inclined to want to contest things.
Sure.
To, you know, to say, wait a second,
(22:53):
that's not right.
You know, that kind of thing.
But if there's been some discussion and some
disclosure, it may be different.
So some of these conversations are very difficult.
We're, we're encouraging these conversations, but we've also,
we also know that sometimes people are not
going to have these conversations because of, because
they just can't get there.
(23:13):
You know, they just can't emotionally get there
or handle that conversation.
Don't you think in New England, we, we
tend to have a little bit of a
different culture sometimes about money and disconnect and
openness about much private, much more private, conservative.
Yes.
It's none of your business, you know, kind
(23:34):
of a mindset, you know, and, uh, that's,
I think that's a very common, uh, modus
operandi, right.
That, um, you know, it's just, I don't
share that kind of thing with my kids,
none of their business.
I don't want them knowing.
That's another thing to talk about.
Sometimes people get worried that the next generation
(23:57):
is going to try to control things, take
over, or perhaps, uh, you know, put them
away, you know, in a nursing home and
take over their money.
And, you know, some of those fears that
can evolve, right.
Absolutely.
How do you deal with that?
(24:18):
Well, you can deal with it by not
naming your family as your trustee or power
of attorney.
Maybe you have a trusted friend or someone
who's not a beneficiary.
There are, there are, there is merit to
having a non-beneficiary being the executor or
trustee or power of attorney.
They usually do get some compensation for that.
(24:40):
Yep.
Reasonable compensation is usually, you know, in the
documents and you can outline that greater if
you want.
That can solve that anxiety of like, oh,
they're going to just want to grab my
money and put me away.
You know, that kind of thing.
Well, if they're not interested, if they don't
benefit, why would they do that?
Right.
If it's, you know, that kind of thing.
And that non-family member can stand in
(25:02):
if there's disputes and, you know, be firm
and without any emotion.
Making business decisions are easier than making family
decisions sometimes, right?
Yeah.
Let's talk just related to this.
Families that don't have kids.
Yep.
(25:23):
And now one spouse is left alone.
And this has not been uncommon that.
No.
The, you know, the family's gone.
Maybe the siblings are older or have died
off.
Pre-deceased.
Sure.
(25:44):
And then there's like, who am I going
to talk to?
Who's going to be that person that could
step in?
Well, maybe there's nieces and nephews.
But how committed are they?
Yeah.
You know, I think that's a common and
challenging.
It's not an easy, I totally can concede.
(26:06):
It is not an easy option to how
do I handle this?
Who do I turn to?
There are professionals, as you were saying.
But even there, like, are they going to
care about my health care proxy?
Probably not the health care proxy.
They might do a decent job managing your
assets and paying your bills.
And that can be very prudent, especially if
(26:28):
you're getting older and you start, you know,
you find yourself forgetting to pay something or
you're not sure.
Yeah.
Don't you want somebody watching over them, right?
I'd rather have a professional.
It's going to cost money, of course.
But I'd rather have a professional doing that
than asking a neighbor or, you know, just
some random friend or, quite frankly, a niece
(26:50):
or nephew that I've seen three times in
my life.
Right.
Yeah.
I think there's more opportunities for fraud and
mismanagement there than paying a couple percent or
whatever the fee would be to a professional.
But the health care proxy is definitely one
that you don't see professional health care proxies
out there.
No.
For good reason.
Right.
I mean, that shouldn't be a business.
(27:12):
No, I think it's challenging for sure.
So in any case, there's not an easy
answer on that.
Then you're trying to think in terms of
friends, and probably as who could be that.
And the older you get, the more difficult
that becomes, I think.
That's right.
Identify who will serve that function.
(27:35):
Similarly, Jeff, maybe, I don't know if this
is stuff you wanted to talk about, but
maybe, you know, going down a rabbit hole.
But sometimes families have not only the issue
with someone who's either not good with money,
failure to launch, whatever that kind of mindset
(27:57):
is, or addictions or things that could complicate
their, you know, their family's, you know, willingness
or confidence that it makes sense to put
them in charge of these resources that they
might have available.
And a trust is a good solution for
that circumstance.
But there are increasingly other circumstances, what if
(28:19):
my kid has autism or, you know, or
something where they're on stage or special needs,
maybe schizophrenia, and they're, you know, limited in
their ability to hold down a job or
fill in the blank, right?
There's you can picture different ailments or health
(28:41):
considerations that have limitations on one's abilities, whether
they're, you know, medical, or mental health, you
know, kinds of whatever it might be.
There's a variety of circumstances, or, you know,
Down syndrome, as an example, someone can live
(29:02):
a long life, but may have some degree
of autonomy, but, you know, also may be
benefiting from state benefits.
And, you know, what does one do, they
can't certainly necessarily fill the role of healthcare
proxy in some of these instances, right?
(29:23):
They may not be the person to be
a trustee.
In fact, it may be that we need
to make plans for some of these people
that outlives us, right?
As a parent, we think that way, right?
So just, I mean, there's all kinds of
range of circumstances.
I kind of threw into one big jumble
there, but let's talk about that for a
(29:44):
minute or two too, because that is a
whole other area of complexity in this family
planning discussion that we're talking about here.
What do you, what do you, what do
you want to add to that part of
the discussion?
I'll put those scenarios in two different buckets,
just to start.
Bucket one is for individuals who, your beneficiaries,
(30:09):
who should not receive a large summer money
or be managing it, right?
For whatever reason, you know, you mentioned some
good ones, but it's not to their benefit.
It might be to their benefit for one
weekend, right?
They'd have like a weekend, but so...
No, not real.
But even that, right?
Hazardous, right?
Right.
And then the other bucket is for people
(30:31):
who just don't have the ability to manage
their own money or that they might be
subject to losing benefits or be taking advantage
of financial advice, you know, a career or
something.
But without doing a whole episode on it,
this is where a good trust attorney really
comes into play because whatever the example is,
(30:55):
whatever the concern is, whether it's, you want
to support a loved one who has a
cognitive disability over the next 40 or 50
years, or you just don't want your beneficiary
to get a lump sum of money, you
know, even if they're working, it's just not
going to be healthy for them to do
that.
There's different trust provisions for each that can
really accommodate your needs.
(31:16):
And when there are some circumstances like state
benefits involved, there's particular kinds of trusts that
can be utilized to have discretionary resources to
be available without disrupting state benefits that's worth,
you know, again, like you said, good, the
right kind of attorney.
(31:37):
But I think this also brings us back
to the financial planning components of this.
And thinking in terms of, in that case,
we're not just planning for a couple to
not outlive their resources, as an example, or
an individual.
But now we're thinking about maybe multi-generational,
like not running out of resources and doing
(32:01):
some planning that can forecast how does that
work?
How do we make sure that we don't
have an issue over, you know, two generations
of lifetime, if you will.
And sometimes that can involve just planning around
(32:21):
how we manage the wealth.
And other times we can have, you know,
thoughts around insurance planning, making sure we create
more wealth with an insurance policy or something
along those lines.
Anyway, there's the whole financial planning element.
We spent a lot of time talking about
the estate planning considerations of these kinds of
(32:46):
discussions and conversations.
I think we also need to talk a
little about the financial implications.
And, you know, this goes back to that
question of how much do you want to
reveal to your family about what you have,
where you have it?
How's it positioned?
(33:07):
What kind of expenses are you incurring?
Do you have money in a safety deposit
box or, you know, valuables in a safety
deposit box?
Do they have access to that?
Do you have, you know, the little packet
in the upper left-hand drawer where, you
know, it's like when I die folder or
(33:28):
whatever.
Yeah.
You know, do they know where to find
that?
I had a conversation with my mom just
the other day where she was like, hey,
when I die, here's what I want my
mask to be.
You know, it's got a game plan.
Very common.
I've got some music I'd like.
(33:49):
My mother did the same thing.
She picked up songs.
Absolutely.
So, you know, that can range just like
the state plan.
That could range from, you know, there's an
envelope here to, you know, I'd also like
to see people say, here's my attorney.
Here's my financial advisor.
(34:09):
You know what?
It's unique to everyone.
But here are the people to contact to
help you.
Right.
Yeah.
I want them to help you.
And if you have a question, I want
you to ask this person.
This is my accountant.
This is going to need to do my
taxes.
All the things that you are worried about.
Right.
Yeah.
Worry about this.
Let them know, let your trustee, your executor
(34:30):
or whatever term we're using here, know these
things.
So and tell them as much as you're
comfortable with.
I, you know, this line, this line is
movable for people, but you can at least
tell them who your financial advisor is, your
attorney and your accountant, and perhaps have a
meeting.
In our example with your financial advisor and
(34:52):
go over some of your maybe it's a
setting that you can share some things that
you haven't shared and some thoughts and desires
that you haven't been able to share around
the kitchen table.
Maybe you can do it in the structure
of a meeting with your financial advisor or
attorney.
Yeah, that's good.
Good planning.
(35:12):
I, I have a client who has a
long letter that he updates periodically.
Right.
And from time to time, he'll share it
with me as to, you know, yours.
And it's all about, you know, like talk
to the attorney.
Here's the name and the phone number.
Talk to us.
There's the phone number.
You know, I often think about other circumstances
(35:36):
where what if something happened to one spouse
and it would be great if they could
share, you know, here's who I talked to
about the taxes.
Here's who I talked to about the mechanic,
you know, for the car, you know, here's
the guy who cleans the gutters, you know,
(35:56):
whatever.
Right.
You know, some of those, some of those
kind of mundane things that, well, if you
need a handyman, here's who I'd call, you
know, because I think a lot of times
survivors take on stuff they're not familiar with
just in the chores and the stuff that
we, we all split as in a household,
(36:17):
you know, you do this and I'll do
that.
But what do I do?
You know, who do I call?
Yeah, that kind of thing.
And it's more complicated today.
Probably like most people, most people are using
online bill paying or you get your bills
(36:39):
actually online, you know, rather the old days
you get everything in the mail.
So you just kind of wait it out.
Right.
Yeah.
They didn't know.
Right.
Yeah.
Cause we'd get some, but if you don't
have access to that email and things are
happening automatically, you might see it on a
bank statement.
Again, if you have a bank statement joint
or in a trust or something, but if
(37:01):
it's individual, you know, what do you do
then?
Right.
Well, I had a neighbor who was married,
her husband died and she didn't have any
children back to that example.
And he handled everything.
So she did not have access to his
email and everything.
(37:22):
He did everything online.
So she would, she didn't even really know
the banks.
Right.
Yeah.
So, you know, it's challenging.
How'd you get, how'd you resolve that?
Fortunately she had tax returns.
Well she also had you helping her out.
Right.
And ultimately we found a nephew that was
available to help and interested, you know, qualified
(37:44):
person.
So, but I'm just using that example.
If you're not engaged, if you have the
spouse that's not engaged and everything's online or
almost everything online, you know, it's more valuable
than a phone number is what's the password,
you know, to, to at least where I
can start.
Right.
Yeah.
So I've told you the, the, the thing
(38:07):
I always worry about with these is, you
know, suddenly there's a things flown thrown across
the room, you know, you mean the family
meeting at the family, the family meeting turns
a hostile or something, you know, no, you
know, just emotions can, can run deep on
these things.
(38:28):
And so that's one of those things that
I think parents have to be prepared to
elaborate one.
This is what I want.
Right.
It's they've made a decision and it's their
intention.
But I think it's also important that they
convey some of the emotion.
(38:48):
I, you know, they have to be in
a position where they're able to convey to
their children, their adult children, their, their, their
pride, their love, their, you know, uh, all
the things that they may need to hear
a little bit to, uh, accept some of
(39:08):
these things that otherwise might cause them to
feel tension and stress.
Yeah.
Um, it's really a gift to have these
meetings.
And if you can't have the meeting to
have that letter that you talked about, you
know, that's really detailed and unique, um, in
some ways, maybe both, but the key is
to have some type of communication and not
(39:30):
just leave everybody guessing what your wishes are,
what your finances are, what your plan was.
I think it's a gift to your family
to do those difficult things.
Right.
One of the best things you might do
in this process is not only engage your
family in the process, but engage your financial
and, uh, attorney and accountant kind of professionals
(39:53):
in the process so that, um, introductions, you
know, let your family know who you deal
with and they know who they can talk
to, you know, that everyone is introduced and
has familiarity.
Maybe there's also elements of, uh, helping in
(40:13):
that process of walking through some of these
things.
And maybe that works out to, uh, uh,
like, you know, maybe you explain to your
financial advisor, I'd like you to walk them
through a little bit about our plan.
Uh, so they know, you know, that kind
of thing, you may want that done.
And I think in that context, uh, maybe
(40:34):
some clarity around what kind of circumstance do
we want to discuss?
Um, not only just the current, Hey, this
is where we're at, but the eventualities of
the what-ifs if I die first, if
they die first, what do we expect to
happen?
What's going to be the process?
If something happens that there's a prolonged illness,
(40:55):
how do we envision that being played out
and so forth?
You know, a little bit of the, the
game plan of what we want to cover,
but sometimes a little bit of help in
that process can be a buffer and also
help.
Yeah.
The structure of that can be a lot
more effective than trying to get everyone around
(41:17):
the kitchen table, you know, with the ball
game on in the back and everybody's emotions
on their sleeves and the dogs barking at
the door.
And, you know, the structure of a meeting
in a professional setting with a, with a
plan of what is to be articulated and
what's not.
Yeah.
Somewhat of an agenda maybe.
And the introductions have value.
(41:38):
You know, if you're a sibling or a
child or beneficiary, um, it's going to be
a lot easier to call you or call
the attorney if you've met them and you
have some understanding of what's going on than
just randomly trying to find out who was
the financial advisor.
Where are the assets?
Who is the attorney?
Right.
Right.
(41:58):
So with that, um, we cover a lot,
hopefully of some value to you to get
started with your thinking about these issues.
Uh, definitely needs some thought before you start
to execute, uh, but give consideration, speak to
an attorney about your estate plan, uh, work
with your financial advisor.
(42:19):
And if you don't have someone in that
role, uh, we're happy to speak with you
to see if we can be a resource
in thinking about not only these issues, but
also, uh, the overall planning around your financial
plan and your portfolio design.
Thanks everyone for joining us until next time.
Keep striving for something more.
(42:40):
Thank you for listening to something more with
Chris Boyd.
Call us for help, whether it's for financial
planning or portfolio management insurance concerns, or those
quality of life issues that make the money
matters matter.
Whatever's on your mind, visit us at something
more with chrisboyd.com or call us toll
free at 866-771-8901 or send us
(43:04):
your questions to amr-info at wealthenhancement.com.
You're listening to something more with Chris Boyd
financial talk show wealth enhancement, advisory services, and
Jay Christopher Boyd provide investment advice on an
individual basis to clients.
Only proper advice depends on a complete analysis
of all facts and circumstances.
The information given on this program is general
financial comments and cannot be relied upon as
(43:25):
pertaining to your specific situation.
Wealth Enhancement Group cannot guarantee that using the
information from this show will generate profits or
ensure freedom from loss.
Listeners should consult their own financial advisors or
conduct their own due diligence before making any
financial decisions.
Welcome to Something More with Chris Boyd.
Chris Boyd is a certified financial planner, practitioner,
and senior vice president and financial advisor at
Wealth Enhancement Group, one of the nation's largest
registered investment advisors.
We call it Something More because we'd like
to talk not only about those important dollar
and cents issues, but also the quality of
life issues that make the money matters matter.
(00:22):
Here he is, your fulfillment facilitator, your partner
in prosperity, advising clients on Cape Cod and
across the country.
Here's your host, Jay Christopher Boyd.
Welcome everybody.
This is Something More with Chris Boyd.
I'm Chris Boyd here with Jeff Perry.
We are the AMR team at Wealth Enhancement
Group and glad to have you joining us.
(00:42):
We've got a good topic today.
A little surprising to me, Jeff, that we're
talking about family planning.
I know.
Well, it's important.
It's important to plan for your family.
But I don't think this is what people
are thinking.
When I think of that, I think in
terms of something like birth control or something.
(01:03):
That's not what we're talking about.
Oh, it's been in the news quite a
bit.
The recent campaigns and the social issues that
are out there, people see family planning and
think, what are they going to talk about?
What side are they on?
We're talking about financial planning for your family,
estate planning, all the kind of planning that
(01:23):
goes into thinking about maybe intergenerational wealth and
the related issues.
Is that what I'm talking about?
Okay.
We can talk about that.
That's fine.
All right.
I think we're both probably past that.
We have families.
We love our families.
I'm worried about these issues.
(01:43):
No, not so much.
It's interesting.
This topic's been on our radar for a
while.
Lisa and I, we just did some amendments
to our estate plan.
I thought about this issue.
You're getting older.
You start to think more about your estate
plan, which is part of it, and your
(02:04):
financial plan, which we've always kind of thought
about.
But you think about it as you get
older, like when I pass and my executor
or trustee, how is all this going to
happen?
I guess the general prudent advice out there,
(02:25):
and we can dig into the details, is
you should tell your family about what your
finances are generally and the outline of your
estate plan.
We'll dig into this.
Yeah, let's talk about that.
Do you agree with that generally?
I think generally it is a good practice.
(02:45):
I understand there are instances where families have
different concerns about family members' ability to handle
money and whether they really want them to.
Well, I think sometimes one of the challenges,
Jeff, is if someone, maybe a degree of
wealth.
(03:07):
I've talked with business owners who would be
like, I'm not going to give it all
to the kids.
I don't want them to know they are
getting that much.
Kind of take away their motivation.
I don't want them to, yeah, exactly.
I don't want them to stall out and
think, I don't have to worry about it.
I'll ride the wave until...
(03:28):
That kind of notion, right?
Sometimes I think that's part of why people
are closer to the vest.
Other times it may be that they feel
like, oh, I wish there was more and
I'm a little bit conscious of my wealth
(03:49):
isn't as much as I'd like it to
be, that kind of thing.
They feel like, that was not that much
to talk about anyway.
I think these are sometimes inhibitors, right?
But big picture, I think it is a
good practice to talk about, what are you
planning?
In that case where someone has substantial money,
(04:09):
that business owner, in the case I was
scenario, I was imagining, recalling.
Well, it's still good to be clear what
your expectations are because what if they're thinking
they're coming into big money and they're not?
You know, better for them to know that
you've got your plan, whatever it is.
(04:35):
I think sometimes too, in the case of
like that, where there's philanthropy involved, that's a
value expression as well.
I think that's something you want to engage
your family in and talk about the notion
that as part of our value system, we
believe in helping our community and here's how
(04:58):
we're going to do it or whatever it
might be, right?
To whom much is given, much is expected,
that kind of notion.
But that can be, when we talk about
legacy, Jeff, we often think about it and
talk about it in terms of financial terms,
what we're, how we're leaving wealth to one
(05:20):
or another, you know, individual.
When legacy can be other things too, it's
values, it's stories, it's other things.
So off track a little bit, but I
think talking about these issues is important because
it can help families to have a greater
(05:41):
awareness of what's intended.
And sometimes it can also be part of
that process of clearly delineating value systems and
things like that.
When it comes to talking about what's intended,
I think that's really important to have some
clarity of here's what we have in mind
(06:04):
for our plan.
Like let's talk about the state plan for
a minute.
You know, sometimes families, and I think we've
talked about this on the show before, sometimes
families just pick the oldest.
Oh, they're going to be the one to
settle my affairs.
It's not always the right person, but sometimes
(06:26):
that's, and if that's what you're doing and
why, and there's somebody else who's involved in
your day-to-day and they're living right
nearby, well, I think it's important to talk
to them about it and say, well, Johnny's
the oldest or whatever.
It's almost like a pick that will not
create strife because it's the expected pick, right?
(06:46):
Maybe so.
It may not be the best choice and
it might be worth talking about why that
would or wouldn't be, but I think it
also could help to alleviate tensions if parents
elaborate on what they had in mind and
(07:08):
why.
A lot of times what happens when a
passing of a parent is old tensions bubble
up within the family.
Absolutely.
And mom always did, dad always did, this
kind of thing.
You always were the whatever, right?
And by having some of these conversations with
(07:31):
the family, you can elaborate on your thinking
and have it as an opportunity not to
convey any kind of confusion around, hey, but
I still love each of you, that kind
of thing.
(07:53):
But let's talk about roles and who should
do what kind of consideration.
Yep.
So, this is really individual.
We're talking about families generically.
Sometimes it's one child, sometimes it's 10 children,
sometimes it's businesses involved.
And so, let's just start with the conversation
about a simple plan where it's a married
(08:15):
couple.
They have means, so they have assets and
they own a house and they have investments
and IRAs, but there's nothing odd.
I think we'll get into some of the
oddities in a few minutes.
Yeah, that's a good point.
Yeah.
But there's no unique circumstances.
It's a standard two kids.
Yeah, let's keep it simple.
(08:35):
Yep.
And so, they're creating, they have their financial
plan and they have their estate plan.
We'll start with the estate plan.
And they're picking one to be the executor
of their will or trustee of their successor
trustee.
And they're picking a healthcare proxy and power
of attorney.
So, they have these three kind of decisions
to make.
So, some of those are financial and some
(08:58):
are healthcare.
That's correct.
So, the first one they're picking is the
executor or personal representative or trustee who's going
to handle the distribution of their assets when
they both pass.
Right.
So, that might be thought of like who's
good at accounting, who's good at finances.
(09:19):
Details.
Maybe who's got some experience with handling money.
You might think along those lines.
Do you agree?
I definitely agree.
And sometimes they default to the older.
And sometimes I've seen, including very recently, which
has not turned out very well for this
particular sibling mix, where both were named.
(09:43):
Oh, yeah.
That's tough.
That's right.
So, co-executives or co-trustees.
And depending on the language of, let's call
it a trust or a will, but depending
on the language of the document, it's likely
that they both have to agree.
And so, I think that's the worst idea
of anything we're going to talk about.
I agree with you.
(10:04):
As much as I get to thinking is
that, oh, that'll be more collaborative.
They'll both have the chance to agree on
things.
They can work together.
Behind that kind of mindset.
It's not heavy handed, but it does raise
the potential, a greater potential for a contest
(10:26):
of wills.
No pun intended.
But with the notion that people might butt
heads a little bit of, no, it should
be this and no, it should be that.
Okay.
So, pick one, generally.
Pick one or go outside to a non
-child.
(10:46):
You don't want it to be a family
tension issue.
Maybe a professional lawyer or whoever might be
could be a good choice in this case.
So, you talked about it in terms of
passing one's death, right?
But the trust or the power of attorney
(11:09):
plays that role while you're alive.
If you become incapacitated.
Incapacitated kind of situation.
And that could be relevant as well.
Who's going to pay my bills?
Who's going to be keeping everything, the ship
running, so to speak.
(11:31):
And this brings into the notion of not
only the financial acumen, but also proximity.
Who's going to be tuned in to my
issues locally, maybe.
Could also be relevant.
Yep.
(11:51):
Absolutely.
It is relevant.
And it's usually the same person, I think,
who is the executive person or representative and
power of attorney.
We're not talking about the healthcare proxy.
But I think there's usually, if you have
in our simple scenario, if you have two
siblings, usually one of them is more organized.
One of them is better with money.
(12:12):
One of them is closer.
Hopefully all those things are the same.
Yeah.
They may not all be the same, right?
That's right.
So it's important.
And it's really important to...
This seems obvious, but I'm sure you've come
across it before.
We're talking about communicating with your family is
after you and your spouse decide who these
(12:33):
people should be, is you should talk to
that person.
You should give them a copy of the
documents.
You should explain, you should say...
What's expected of them and are they willing
to do that?
Right.
And so I'll just share something personal, which
is in line with this.
We just amended some documents.
We changed a successor trustee on our trust.
(12:58):
And so giving this new successor trustee copies
of the documents, explaining what our intent is
in certain areas that they're not ambiguous, but
just adding some color, some detail and giving
the successor trustee your name, for example, and
the name of an attorney that they should
(13:21):
go to for guidance.
The name of all the beneficiaries is in
the trust, but how about contact information of
the beneficiaries?
That's not typically in the documents.
It may say Johnny Jones of Boston, Massachusetts,
but do you have a phone number and
an email for him or her?
And so reviewing from 10,000 feet, not
(13:43):
every particular line, but reviewing your wishes and
why you're doing things and what your intent
is with your person that's going to carry
out your wishes, either when you're incapacitated or
you passed, I think is super important.
I think that's a good point.
So you lay it out in front of
(14:03):
them.
Along those lines, do you want to transition
to the healthcare considerations?
I mean, I think that's just as important
for some of that conversation.
We talked a little bit about this not
long ago when talking about a television show
that we were watching.
The Pit.
Yeah.
(14:24):
Did you end up watching any of that?
We are current because the only release on
a week.
It's a good show.
And in episodes two and three, it carried
over maybe even to four, just for the
listeners who weren't tuned into that podcast.
There is a person that has an older
(14:46):
man and I guess he's a parent, right?
Yeah.
And near death.
Two siblings, a male and a female.
The female is more assertive, we'll say.
And they don't agree on the end of
life and how it should happen.
And this whole two persons versus one.
(15:09):
Right.
There's another example of that.
The healthcare proxy, I think it creates the
potential for problems.
We won't go into the particulars of that
show again, but the concept of a healthcare
proxy is who's going to make decisions for
me if I'm not able to.
Right.
And some jurisdictions prefer an agent to the
(15:32):
healthcare proxy.
Other jurisdictions prefer written directives.
But both are that notion of what's intended.
What do I want to see happen?
And different people have different perspectives on this.
Sometimes it's like, pull out all the stops,
man.
(15:53):
As my friend said, when you're dead, you're
dead.
Got to give them a chance, right?
Yeah.
So that's one.
And then the other is, well, if I'm
at a certain age, maybe I think I've
had a good life.
I don't necessarily want to be on machines
and prolonged indefinitely.
And maybe if there's certain cognitive decline, you
(16:15):
might not want to be having life extended
just indefinitely, you know, that kind of thing.
And so there may be some thoughts around
what do I want, that, and will someone
adhere to your wishes?
Will they know what you want and follow
(16:42):
those wishes, which was a part of that
episode.
Right.
And so, you know, just going off the
episode, but this is real life type of
stuff.
If you put in your healthcare proxy, your
wishes, and, you know, say you don't want
extraordinary means used, you know, you don't want
to pull out all the stops, so to
speak, which is one of the choices that
(17:04):
people use commonly.
I think it's a lot more powerful that
if you have that discussion following, you know,
you've made this document, you've gone through that
whole process and you give a copy to
your healthcare proxy, hopefully it's one person and
not two.
An alternate is fine in case person number
(17:26):
one's not available.
Right.
But, and you actually have the conversation with
them that I prepared this document.
This is my wishes.
I think that goes, it just magnifies the
document because without it, you know, in healthcare
proxy has this document and they're reading it,
but in there in this emotional moment and
they're not really fully prepared to just, you
(17:49):
know, be the judge, if you will, and
just go by the letter of the four
corners of the document, they have so many
other emotions and wondering if you really meant
that, did you understand it?
But if you had told this person, this
is my situation, this is my health, this
is my decision.
I want you to honor it.
I think it would just be so much
more powerful to the healthcare proxy and so
(18:11):
much more, I don't know how to say
it, but it's a more of a gift
to the healthcare proxy that you've had that
conversation and you're relieving some of that burden
from having to make that decision.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can see how this could lead to
family tensions, can't you?
(18:31):
How some of these challenging decisions and, you
know, trying to fulfill someone's wishes could be
challenging, you know?
So this goes back to, you know, what
we started with, the conversations about this, the
(18:53):
planning that goes into this.
And, you know, as you were describing that
and saying, it's important to talk to the
person who's going to take on that role.
But let's say in that imaginary family of
four, mom, dad, son, daughter, it's actually important
(19:17):
for mom and or dad to talk to
not only the person who's going to be
making the decisions, but also the person who's
not so that they also know those intentions
because they might be more inclined to be
accommodating to them if they understand what's desired.
(19:39):
That's a great point.
And, you know, ideally that conversation happens with
all four of those people in the room
at the same time, right?
So there's no like, well, I don't know
what you really said to the other sibling.
Yeah.
You might've pressured, you know, no sense of
like, oh, you were pressuring them or something
like that.
Right.
(20:00):
I'm in favor of all these family communications.
I think they're important.
I think it gets, I think we're talking
about the easy stuff so far.
It's not easy, but the easier stuff.
I guess, how far do you go though?
I mean, that's where we get into the,
you know, and the real special circumstances.
(20:22):
So say you have, just keep with our
example, let's say during the life of this
family, the son in this case had some
struggles along the way.
So mom and dad helped him out.
You know, maybe he was unemployed for a
while, maybe he got a divorce and there
were times when he needed some extra funds
and, you know, whether or not the sister
(20:44):
knows this happened, right?
Right.
Yeah.
How, how do you handle that in a
way that's fair?
Equal is not always fair or fair.
We, we, we often like make reference to
that.
It can be that fair is equal, but
(21:06):
it's not always that fair is equal.
Let's say in our hypothetical, you know, the
daughter is highly successful professional, financially secure.
Um, and well off, whereas, uh, Sonny's been
(21:27):
struggling.
He's been bouncing around.
Yeah.
You know, so what's, what's fair in that
scenario?
Um, equal might be fair, but there might
be a sense of, well, I think, um,
Sonny needs a little bit more help, you
know, that kind of thing, you know, so
that, but maybe we'll keep it in a
trust and not necessarily give that money to
(21:49):
Sonny to, because he's not as good with
money or whatever it might be.
Right.
So there's no right or wrong answer for
mom and dad here.
It's, it's, it's their money, their assets.
They get to decide, but the tough part
is what do you communicate?
Because if you, you gotta make sure you're
saying something to daughter in that scenario that
(22:10):
says, you know, I love you.
Right.
You know, but look, look how well you've
done.
We have total confidence.
You're fine.
You know what I mean?
If they hear that, that's one thing and
they say, okay, therefore I'm doing something different
than what might seem fair, uh, equal.
(22:32):
Um, or if they just find out at
the reading of the will, what the hell,
you know, they might feel like they've been
slighted somehow.
The daughter could very well feel less than,
right?
Yeah.
And more inclined to want to contest things.
Sure.
To, you know, to say, wait a second,
(22:53):
that's not right.
You know, that kind of thing.
But if there's been some discussion and some
disclosure, it may be different.
So some of these conversations are very difficult.
We're, we're encouraging these conversations, but we've also,
we also know that sometimes people are not
going to have these conversations because of, because
they just can't get there.
(23:13):
You know, they just can't emotionally get there
or handle that conversation.
Don't you think in New England, we, we
tend to have a little bit of a
different culture sometimes about money and disconnect and
openness about much private, much more private, conservative.
Yes.
It's none of your business, you know, kind
(23:34):
of a mindset, you know, and, uh, that's,
I think that's a very common, uh, modus
operandi, right.
That, um, you know, it's just, I don't
share that kind of thing with my kids,
none of their business.
I don't want them knowing.
That's another thing to talk about.
Sometimes people get worried that the next generation
(23:57):
is going to try to control things, take
over, or perhaps, uh, you know, put them
away, you know, in a nursing home and
take over their money.
And, you know, some of those fears that
can evolve, right.
Absolutely.
How do you deal with that?
(24:18):
Well, you can deal with it by not
naming your family as your trustee or power
of attorney.
Maybe you have a trusted friend or someone
who's not a beneficiary.
There are, there are, there is merit to
having a non-beneficiary being the executor or
trustee or power of attorney.
They usually do get some compensation for that.
(24:40):
Yep.
Reasonable compensation is usually, you know, in the
documents and you can outline that greater if
you want.
That can solve that anxiety of like, oh,
they're going to just want to grab my
money and put me away.
You know, that kind of thing.
Well, if they're not interested, if they don't
benefit, why would they do that?
Right.
If it's, you know, that kind of thing.
And that non-family member can stand in
(25:02):
if there's disputes and, you know, be firm
and without any emotion.
Making business decisions are easier than making family
decisions sometimes, right?
Yeah.
Let's talk just related to this.
Families that don't have kids.
Yep.
(25:23):
And now one spouse is left alone.
And this has not been uncommon that.
No.
The, you know, the family's gone.
Maybe the siblings are older or have died
off.
Pre-deceased.
Sure.
(25:44):
And then there's like, who am I going
to talk to?
Who's going to be that person that could
step in?
Well, maybe there's nieces and nephews.
But how committed are they?
Yeah.
You know, I think that's a common and
challenging.
It's not an easy, I totally can concede.
(26:06):
It is not an easy option to how
do I handle this?
Who do I turn to?
There are professionals, as you were saying.
But even there, like, are they going to
care about my health care proxy?
Probably not the health care proxy.
They might do a decent job managing your
assets and paying your bills.
And that can be very prudent, especially if
(26:28):
you're getting older and you start, you know,
you find yourself forgetting to pay something or
you're not sure.
Yeah.
Don't you want somebody watching over them, right?
I'd rather have a professional.
It's going to cost money, of course.
But I'd rather have a professional doing that
than asking a neighbor or, you know, just
some random friend or, quite frankly, a niece
(26:50):
or nephew that I've seen three times in
my life.
Right.
Yeah.
I think there's more opportunities for fraud and
mismanagement there than paying a couple percent or
whatever the fee would be to a professional.
But the health care proxy is definitely one
that you don't see professional health care proxies
out there.
No.
For good reason.
Right.
I mean, that shouldn't be a business.
(27:12):
No, I think it's challenging for sure.
So in any case, there's not an easy
answer on that.
Then you're trying to think in terms of
friends, and probably as who could be that.
And the older you get, the more difficult
that becomes, I think.
That's right.
Identify who will serve that function.
(27:35):
Similarly, Jeff, maybe, I don't know if this
is stuff you wanted to talk about, but
maybe, you know, going down a rabbit hole.
But sometimes families have not only the issue
with someone who's either not good with money,
failure to launch, whatever that kind of mindset
(27:57):
is, or addictions or things that could complicate
their, you know, their family's, you know, willingness
or confidence that it makes sense to put
them in charge of these resources that they
might have available.
And a trust is a good solution for
that circumstance.
But there are increasingly other circumstances, what if
(28:19):
my kid has autism or, you know, or
something where they're on stage or special needs,
maybe schizophrenia, and they're, you know, limited in
their ability to hold down a job or
fill in the blank, right?
There's you can picture different ailments or health
(28:41):
considerations that have limitations on one's abilities, whether
they're, you know, medical, or mental health, you
know, kinds of whatever it might be.
There's a variety of circumstances, or, you know,
Down syndrome, as an example, someone can live
(29:02):
a long life, but may have some degree
of autonomy, but, you know, also may be
benefiting from state benefits.
And, you know, what does one do, they
can't certainly necessarily fill the role of healthcare
proxy in some of these instances, right?
(29:23):
They may not be the person to be
a trustee.
In fact, it may be that we need
to make plans for some of these people
that outlives us, right?
As a parent, we think that way, right?
So just, I mean, there's all kinds of
range of circumstances.
I kind of threw into one big jumble
there, but let's talk about that for a
(29:44):
minute or two too, because that is a
whole other area of complexity in this family
planning discussion that we're talking about here.
What do you, what do you, what do
you want to add to that part of
the discussion?
I'll put those scenarios in two different buckets,
just to start.
Bucket one is for individuals who, your beneficiaries,
(30:09):
who should not receive a large summer money
or be managing it, right?
For whatever reason, you know, you mentioned some
good ones, but it's not to their benefit.
It might be to their benefit for one
weekend, right?
They'd have like a weekend, but so...
No, not real.
But even that, right?
Hazardous, right?
Right.
And then the other bucket is for people
(30:31):
who just don't have the ability to manage
their own money or that they might be
subject to losing benefits or be taking advantage
of financial advice, you know, a career or
something.
But without doing a whole episode on it,
this is where a good trust attorney really
comes into play because whatever the example is,
(30:55):
whatever the concern is, whether it's, you want
to support a loved one who has a
cognitive disability over the next 40 or 50
years, or you just don't want your beneficiary
to get a lump sum of money, you
know, even if they're working, it's just not
going to be healthy for them to do
that.
There's different trust provisions for each that can
really accommodate your needs.
(31:16):
And when there are some circumstances like state
benefits involved, there's particular kinds of trusts that
can be utilized to have discretionary resources to
be available without disrupting state benefits that's worth,
you know, again, like you said, good, the
right kind of attorney.
(31:37):
But I think this also brings us back
to the financial planning components of this.
And thinking in terms of, in that case,
we're not just planning for a couple to
not outlive their resources, as an example, or
an individual.
But now we're thinking about maybe multi-generational,
like not running out of resources and doing
(32:01):
some planning that can forecast how does that
work?
How do we make sure that we don't
have an issue over, you know, two generations
of lifetime, if you will.
And sometimes that can involve just planning around
(32:21):
how we manage the wealth.
And other times we can have, you know,
thoughts around insurance planning, making sure we create
more wealth with an insurance policy or something
along those lines.
Anyway, there's the whole financial planning element.
We spent a lot of time talking about
the estate planning considerations of these kinds of
(32:46):
discussions and conversations.
I think we also need to talk a
little about the financial implications.
And, you know, this goes back to that
question of how much do you want to
reveal to your family about what you have,
where you have it?
How's it positioned?
(33:07):
What kind of expenses are you incurring?
Do you have money in a safety deposit
box or, you know, valuables in a safety
deposit box?
Do they have access to that?
Do you have, you know, the little packet
in the upper left-hand drawer where, you
know, it's like when I die folder or
(33:28):
whatever.
Yeah.
You know, do they know where to find
that?
I had a conversation with my mom just
the other day where she was like, hey,
when I die, here's what I want my
mask to be.
You know, it's got a game plan.
Very common.
I've got some music I'd like.
(33:49):
My mother did the same thing.
She picked up songs.
Absolutely.
So, you know, that can range just like
the state plan.
That could range from, you know, there's an
envelope here to, you know, I'd also like
to see people say, here's my attorney.
Here's my financial advisor.
(34:09):
You know what?
It's unique to everyone.
But here are the people to contact to
help you.
Right.
Yeah.
I want them to help you.
And if you have a question, I want
you to ask this person.
This is my accountant.
This is going to need to do my
taxes.
All the things that you are worried about.
Right.
Yeah.
Worry about this.
Let them know, let your trustee, your executor
(34:30):
or whatever term we're using here, know these
things.
So and tell them as much as you're
comfortable with.
I, you know, this line, this line is
movable for people, but you can at least
tell them who your financial advisor is, your
attorney and your accountant, and perhaps have a
meeting.
In our example with your financial advisor and
(34:52):
go over some of your maybe it's a
setting that you can share some things that
you haven't shared and some thoughts and desires
that you haven't been able to share around
the kitchen table.
Maybe you can do it in the structure
of a meeting with your financial advisor or
attorney.
Yeah, that's good.
Good planning.
(35:12):
I, I have a client who has a
long letter that he updates periodically.
Right.
And from time to time, he'll share it
with me as to, you know, yours.
And it's all about, you know, like talk
to the attorney.
Here's the name and the phone number.
Talk to us.
There's the phone number.
You know, I often think about other circumstances
(35:36):
where what if something happened to one spouse
and it would be great if they could
share, you know, here's who I talked to
about the taxes.
Here's who I talked to about the mechanic,
you know, for the car, you know, here's
the guy who cleans the gutters, you know,
(35:56):
whatever.
Right.
You know, some of those, some of those
kind of mundane things that, well, if you
need a handyman, here's who I'd call, you
know, because I think a lot of times
survivors take on stuff they're not familiar with
just in the chores and the stuff that
we, we all split as in a household,
(36:17):
you know, you do this and I'll do
that.
But what do I do?
You know, who do I call?
Yeah, that kind of thing.
And it's more complicated today.
Probably like most people, most people are using
online bill paying or you get your bills
(36:39):
actually online, you know, rather the old days
you get everything in the mail.
So you just kind of wait it out.
Right.
Yeah.
They didn't know.
Right.
Yeah.
Cause we'd get some, but if you don't
have access to that email and things are
happening automatically, you might see it on a
bank statement.
Again, if you have a bank statement joint
or in a trust or something, but if
(37:01):
it's individual, you know, what do you do
then?
Right.
Well, I had a neighbor who was married,
her husband died and she didn't have any
children back to that example.
And he handled everything.
So she did not have access to his
email and everything.
(37:22):
He did everything online.
So she would, she didn't even really know
the banks.
Right.
Yeah.
So, you know, it's challenging.
How'd you get, how'd you resolve that?
Fortunately she had tax returns.
Well she also had you helping her out.
Right.
And ultimately we found a nephew that was
available to help and interested, you know, qualified
(37:44):
person.
So, but I'm just using that example.
If you're not engaged, if you have the
spouse that's not engaged and everything's online or
almost everything online, you know, it's more valuable
than a phone number is what's the password,
you know, to, to at least where I
can start.
Right.
Yeah.
So I've told you the, the, the thing
(38:07):
I always worry about with these is, you
know, suddenly there's a things flown thrown across
the room, you know, you mean the family
meeting at the family, the family meeting turns
a hostile or something, you know, no, you
know, just emotions can, can run deep on
these things.
(38:28):
And so that's one of those things that
I think parents have to be prepared to
elaborate one.
This is what I want.
Right.
It's they've made a decision and it's their
intention.
But I think it's also important that they
convey some of the emotion.
(38:48):
I, you know, they have to be in
a position where they're able to convey to
their children, their adult children, their, their, their
pride, their love, their, you know, uh, all
the things that they may need to hear
a little bit to, uh, accept some of
(39:08):
these things that otherwise might cause them to
feel tension and stress.
Yeah.
Um, it's really a gift to have these
meetings.
And if you can't have the meeting to
have that letter that you talked about, you
know, that's really detailed and unique, um, in
some ways, maybe both, but the key is
to have some type of communication and not
(39:30):
just leave everybody guessing what your wishes are,
what your finances are, what your plan was.
I think it's a gift to your family
to do those difficult things.
Right.
One of the best things you might do
in this process is not only engage your
family in the process, but engage your financial
and, uh, attorney and accountant kind of professionals
(39:53):
in the process so that, um, introductions, you
know, let your family know who you deal
with and they know who they can talk
to, you know, that everyone is introduced and
has familiarity.
Maybe there's also elements of, uh, helping in
(40:13):
that process of walking through some of these
things.
And maybe that works out to, uh, uh,
like, you know, maybe you explain to your
financial advisor, I'd like you to walk them
through a little bit about our plan.
Uh, so they know, you know, that kind
of thing, you may want that done.
And I think in that context, uh, maybe
(40:34):
some clarity around what kind of circumstance do
we want to discuss?
Um, not only just the current, Hey, this
is where we're at, but the eventualities of
the what-ifs if I die first, if
they die first, what do we expect to
happen?
What's going to be the process?
If something happens that there's a prolonged illness,
(40:55):
how do we envision that being played out
and so forth?
You know, a little bit of the, the
game plan of what we want to cover,
but sometimes a little bit of help in
that process can be a buffer and also
help.
Yeah.
The structure of that can be a lot
more effective than trying to get everyone around
(41:17):
the kitchen table, you know, with the ball
game on in the back and everybody's emotions
on their sleeves and the dogs barking at
the door.
And, you know, the structure of a meeting
in a professional setting with a, with a
plan of what is to be articulated and
what's not.
Yeah.
Somewhat of an agenda maybe.
And the introductions have value.
(41:38):
You know, if you're a sibling or a
child or beneficiary, um, it's going to be
a lot easier to call you or call
the attorney if you've met them and you
have some understanding of what's going on than
just randomly trying to find out who was
the financial advisor.
Where are the assets?
Who is the attorney?
Right.
Right.
(41:58):
So with that, um, we cover a lot,
hopefully of some value to you to get
started with your thinking about these issues.
Uh, definitely needs some thought before you start
to execute, uh, but give consideration, speak to
an attorney about your estate plan, uh, work
with your financial advisor.
(42:19):
And if you don't have someone in that
role, uh, we're happy to speak with you
to see if we can be a resource
in thinking about not only these issues, but
also, uh, the overall planning around your financial
plan and your portfolio design.
Thanks everyone for joining us until next time.
Keep striving for something more.
(42:40):
Thank you for listening to something more with
Chris Boyd.
Call us for help, whether it's for financial
planning or portfolio management insurance concerns, or those
quality of life issues that make the money
matters matter.
Whatever's on your mind, visit us at something
more with chrisboyd.com or call us toll
free at 866-771-8901 or send us
(43:04):
your questions to amr-info at wealthenhancement.com.
You're listening to something more with Chris Boyd
financial talk show wealth enhancement, advisory services, and
Jay Christopher Boyd provide investment advice on an
individual basis to clients.
Only proper advice depends on a complete analysis
of all facts and circumstances.
The information given on this program is general
financial comments and cannot be relied upon as
(43:25):
pertaining to your specific situation.
Wealth Enhancement Group cannot guarantee that using the
information from this show will generate profits or
ensure freedom from loss.
Listeners should consult their own financial advisors or
conduct their own due diligence before making any
financial decisions.
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