January 24, 2025 • 29 mins
Navigating life’s milestones – Chris Boyd opens this episode with sharing a personal story
concerning the recent passing of his first financial planning client. Chris, Jeff Perry, and Russ
Ball discuss how working with a financial planner in the different seasons of life can provide
great benefit. The trio offers further commentary of the various ways a financial planner can
assist individuals/families who are just getting started, building wealth, preparing for retirement,
living in retirement and in estate and legacy.
For more information or to reach Chris Boyd, Russ Ball or Jeff Perry, click the following link:
https://www.wealthenhancement.com/s/advisor-teams/amr
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to something more with Chris Boyd.
Chris Boyd is a certified financial planner, practitioner,
and senior vice president, financial advisor at wealth
enhancement group.
One of the nation's largest registered investment advisors.
We call it something more because we'd like
to talk not only about those important dollar
and cents issues, but also the quality of
life issues that make the money matters matter.
(00:22):
Here he is your fulfillment facilitator, your partner
in prosperity, advising clients on Cape Cod and
across the country.
Here's your host, Jay Christopher Boyd.
Come to the program.
I'm Chris Boyd.
I'm here with Jeff Perry and Russ Ball.
We are all from the AMR team at
wealth enhancement group and glad to have you
joining us for another episode of something more.
(00:46):
Um, it's, uh, the dead of winter.
We were just talking to Russ and I,
as we were getting the show started, feels
like a, it's cold season coming on and,
uh, not, uh, not as cold where Jeff
Perry is.
So hopefully, uh, staying healthy there.
Um, we are coming to you from our
studio here in Hyannis and Jeff is coming
(01:08):
to you from Florida.
I am, and it's cold here.
Relatively speaking.
It's only been in the sixties.
Oh, geez.
Hard to hope.
Yeah.
This is Arctic.
I'm to call it the, uh, Arctic front
or something's named for it.
Yeah.
Sleeping statement for, for Florida at least.
(01:28):
Well, this past week, Florida had record level
snow in the, uh, big bend and Pensacola
area.
Oh, wow.
My brother on the Gulf of America, the
Gulf of America, right at the top of
the Gulf of America.
Yeah.
Russ, you were saying, yeah, my brother lives
in, uh, right, right outside New Orleans and,
uh, I woke up in the morning, he's,
(01:51):
uh, texted a picture, walking the dogs in
the snow.
Yeah.
Wow.
And that's the last thing you'd expect.
So first time in years in, uh, New
Orleans, I would snow.
All right.
But that's not really what we're going to
talk about today.
Sorry.
I got a, we got a little sidetracked,
um, changing seasons.
Um, we are really intending to talk about,
yeah, changing seasons.
(02:12):
That's a good, that's a good segue, Jeff.
Um, changing seasons of life.
As people go through different phases of their
planning, we were talking about some recent client
experiences and having seen them through, uh, the
range of the, the arc of their financial
plan.
I was just saying one of my, um,
(02:32):
longest clients, uh, just passed away.
Um, I think really my first client, uh,
uh, if, I don't know if it was
my client in insurance, but I had worked
with them in insurance when I started insurance,
but my first client, when I started as,
um, uh, in financial planning and, and working
(02:53):
with people in investing and, um, in those
days, um, you know, we were, I was,
I was a registered rep of a broker
dealer.
And so the way we did things was
we sold a mutual fund and different, you
know, trying to fill out and figure out
what was the right mix of funds for
people to meet their needs.
(03:14):
And, uh, this family was, uh, my first
client in that experience and have been with
me all along the way.
And, um, uh, across my career and more
across their experience from going through, um, and
this particular family, they had won the lottery,
uh, some, some lottery winnings, not all disclosure,
(03:38):
not all of our clients win the lottery.
Yeah, exactly.
Uh, and they were friends of our family
and, um, went to my, uh, my dad
for their estate planning and, uh, now that
my brother who was friends with their, their
kids and, um, in any case, it was,
(04:01):
um, um, a circumstance where they were planning
for their future and starting on their, their
path to retirement is, you know, when you
win that kind of money, you start thinking,
what should we do?
You know?
Um, was, I don't want to get too
much into detail, but were they clients?
So they won the lottery.
Were they clients before they won the lottery?
(04:24):
Uh, not of mine.
Um, I think, no, I think that was
what the catalyst that got started on saying,
okay, you know, um, given the, their, you
know, new financial circumstances, how should they think
about their planning?
Yeah.
I got them really focused on their estate
(04:44):
planning, their financial planning of, you know, various
types.
Um, so in those days, uh, the estate
tax threshold was much lower.
So there was some concern about having liquidity
for estate taxes.
Right.
So that involved an insurance component.
There were things about, you know, their, uh,
cash flows and, you know, income.
(05:06):
And, um, you know, they thought about, uh,
spending time in Florida.
And so they just started all the, you
know, the planning of, well, how shall they
do this, what, what will be their priority
and keeping, uh, uh, kind of, uh, a
cautious eye they didn't, you know, they wanted
to have, uh, some risk and some performance,
(05:27):
but they also want to be very careful
with the money they had, yes, which is
not always the case when you hear it,
uh, yeah, go ahead.
Lottery winning winners who just fail at it.
Right.
They just, usually they're so extravagant or they're
super generous.
I'm rich.
Oh, they make bad investments.
(05:47):
You know, everyone with a, everyone who didn't
make it on a shark tank is knocking
at that door.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, you know, they were very, very careful
and, um.
And then, um, you know, over time, you
know, just the cashflow through retirement and how
things were going.
And, uh, along the way, uh, he passed
(06:11):
and she lived on and, uh, we continued
to be a resource in helping think about
things, uh, her care needs changed over time,
you know, and we talked about a different,
would you want to do this?
Would you consider doing that?
You know?
Um, so had, had some important conversations, but
ultimately it was matter of what's preferred, what,
(06:33):
you know, what, what they want.
And, uh, so it was good.
And ultimately, um, just recently, um, um, this
client passed, but it's, it's the kind of,
you know, kind of, it's, it's sad when
I was saying to Russ, that's one of
the drawbacks of, uh, uh, we work with
retirees and, um, we see them through, uh,
(06:57):
the beginning to end.
And it's, it's, you know, we've, we've had
a lot of clients that over the years
and as a consequence, you know, some have
passed and it's, uh, it's one of the,
one of the parts of the business that's,
um, you know, personal, you've, you have a
connection with all these people and, and, you
know, you care not to, it's hard not
(07:17):
to, right.
Yeah.
We care about their, their journey, you know,
and they share so much with you.
They share their, their fears, their hopes, their
dreams.
They share when good things happen, when challenges
happen.
Yeah.
So you become closer to a lot.
I mean, different, uh, family members passed along
the way.
(07:37):
Anyway, you know, you, you, you connected to
that kind of thing.
So in any case, um, Uh, this brings
me to an interesting article.
I came across that maybe we can, um,
deviate from the specifics of this, but it's,
it's, you know, um, uh, kind of related
(07:57):
to this topic.
There was an article in, uh, the February
Kiplinger, uh, uh, article, the cover of the
magazine talks about, you know, just the very
issues of retirement, um, getting the right advice
in retirement and, you know, it has the
graphic on the top where it's got all
these street signs pointing in different directions for,
you know, withdrawal strategies, charitable giving a state
(08:20):
planning, long-term care, minimizing taxes, social security,
planning, uh, generating income, creating a budget, all
these things that, you know, we, we do
and our routine with the way, how we
think about working with clients and thinking through
how shall they, um, how can we help
(08:42):
them in thinking about the issues they need
to plan for as they go through their,
um, retirement journey?
Chris, let me ask you kind of a
foundational question based on that.
When should someone people listening, some are a
brand new people to the show, a brand
new to getting their finances in order, some
(09:03):
are retired, some are wealthy, some are not.
When should someone consider seeing a financial advisor?
Like, yeah, uh, now, uh, right.
You know, I guess the answer, right.
You know, no, I'm, I'm kind of being
flippant, but you know, I think as soon
as possible is, is the best answer.
Um, that, um, if you're, uh, starting out,
(09:27):
um, you're better benefited by getting a little,
uh, advice, a little counsel, Jeff, I mean,
we've had a number of clients that you've
done a great job in kind of saying,
getting them on the right path, thinking about,
um, how do they either reduce their debt
load or plan for their cash?
You know, like set us, how much do
(09:47):
I set aside?
How much do I plan for savings and
investment?
So on the early end of things, it's
like as soon as possible.
Right.
And, and the challenges, of course, you know,
and along the way, many stages along the
way, you say, I just don't have enough,
right.
And that's going to be true for lots
of people, you know, no matter what stage
of your journey.
Uh, a lot of times people feel like,
(10:10):
oh, I'm not sure I have enough to
be thinking that way.
And that's really why maybe, because you got
to prioritize and think about, uh, what should
or shouldn't I do?
And, you know, the decisions about how to
plan for where your money goes.
And you can't get stuck, right.
I don't have enough, therefore I won't do
(10:31):
anything.
Yeah.
And it can be emotionally draining.
Let's say when you're, when you're upside down
in, in the, you know, things are going
the wrong direction and it's not as though
it's always like an easy fix, you know,
I don't want to make light of things.
On the other hand though, uh, you know,
sometimes fresh eyes can say, well, maybe you
(10:51):
want to consider this.
And sometimes it's, um, it is not easy.
It, you know, it's, it's, it's challenging.
It's difficult, but taking that, uh, difficult path
can get you to the other side more,
uh, rapidly.
And, and I think sometimes it's a little
bit of perspective of, you know, just, well,
(11:13):
let's look at the math.
I mean, this is, this is arithmetic, you
know, like what can we do?
Um, I don't have enough.
Well, maybe we should think about a roommate
or, oh, maybe you want to think about
a cheaper car or, you know, well, maybe
we need to think about a different job,
you know, whatever it is on that early
end.
Right.
There's, there's lots of, you know, things to
(11:34):
consider.
Uh, it's not to say that it's easy,
but there's ways to think about it.
Right.
Yeah.
Go ahead.
I think, especially for younger people, um, just
like taking a step back and actually thinking
about it, like, wow, this is actually a
plan.
It's not just like going, you know, paycheck
to paycheck.
Oh, like, uh, yeah.
Winging it.
And, and it's about creating efficiency and starting
(11:56):
to actually build wealth.
I think that's, those are the discussions I
have with my, my friends as, as their
de facto, uh, advisor, um, is like, there
are a lot of things that they just
haven't really thought about.
And when we look at a financial plan,
we're looking at like your goals, your big
picture goals.
And sometimes that's the place to start where,
uh, a lot of people are thinking about
their goals in five years and 10 years
(12:17):
and 30 years.
So, and, and that can get people excited,
right?
When you're thinking about something, progress ultimately.
Yeah.
There's some small steps towards something that, that
makes you like, it changes the mindset where
it's, it's framed differently instead of framed as
like a sacrifice, uh, it's framed as progress,
(12:41):
working towards opportunity and progress.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's a great point.
You know, and then, you know, as, as
things evolve, uh, people's increases and there's greater
opportunity.
And sometimes it's just executing on fundamentals, right?
Um, we know, you know, blocking and tackling
or whatever it is, right.
Yeah.
We know that just keep doing the right
(13:03):
things and, uh, not getting off track by
getting, um, you know, uh, taking, making some
bad decisions along the way.
Right.
You know, bad decisions may be the wrong
way to say it, but the idea of
like getting, getting distracted, overextending, um, that kind
of thing are easy to do along the
way.
So you want to keep on a path
(13:25):
that keeps you in that wealth creation phase
as, as you were talking about it, Ross.
And, you know, I think, um, some of
this is just keep doing the right things,
you know, in, in time is your, is
your, uh, your, your, um, it's your advantage
in this, that given time things compound and
(13:45):
wealth has increased over time and there will
be bumps in the road with markets disrupted.
And these are the inevitabilities of it all,
but, um, uh, don't overextend.
Right.
Um, uh, so, and then, you know, the,
with the buying habits and spending habits and
(14:05):
all of these kinds of things, keeping some
perspective and, and sometimes a planner, um, you
know, we talk about, um, accountability partners when
it comes to coaches and things like this.
Sometimes it's not even, you know, it's not
accountability as much as just like, you know,
keeping you on track, you know, you doing
these things and sometimes it's strategy.
Oh, have you thought about the mega backdoor
(14:27):
Roth or, you know, whatever it might be,
or, you know, and sometimes it's just, um,
uh, you know, thinking about, well, how much
can I afford when I want to do
this goal?
You know, we had a client, uh, not
long ago, uh, by a, a second home.
Um, uh, you know, it's, uh, unexpectedly to
(14:48):
us, but it was something that they, they
saw a lot of value in for, uh,
the possibility of a future retirement home.
Uh, the, the importance of family experience, you
know, they're going to have a lot of
family time there.
Super common goal.
Yeah.
So, I mean, you know, and, and their
income, when we, we kind of went through
(15:09):
it, it was like, yeah, it seems like,
you know, it's going to create equity.
It's going to, it's something you can afford.
Um, it it's, you know, there's a, there's
a value element of it as well.
So it was like, it was kind of
all these, uh, virtues, uh, built in.
Um, now it does add some expenses cause
you got to, you know, utility bills.
(15:30):
But, um, but in this, in this particular
instance, it all seemed like it was a
good, it was good math, you know, but,
um, and then, you know, as we, as
we get later in life, we start thinking
about one of the things that we run
into a lot is people are spending time,
um, racing to the finish line, if you
(15:52):
will.
And they're, they're thinking of retirement, uh, away
from work as, uh, the finish line when
in reality it's, it's its own beginning, right.
But it is a time when people reassess
how much risk do I want in my
portfolio?
Should I be as aggressive as I've been
in the past?
(16:13):
Um, it's a time when then people start
thinking about how am I going to manage
these cashflows?
You know, we talk about all the social
security decisions and, uh, you know, social security
turning on and retirement start don't have to
be the same time.
But, uh, if I'm not turning on social
security, I'm spending too much of my money,
you know, this kind of thing.
Well, on the other hand, that might save
(16:34):
you money over your retirement.
You know, that's a tough one for people
to process, but it really is, but it's,
yeah.
Uh, we talked about pensions, same idea with
pensions.
If you have a pension option, go ahead.
Continue with that.
No, it's the same.
Um, you know, like people struggle about wanting
to take social security or they take it
(16:54):
at the default.
Sometimes it's to take it as soon as
possible.
Right.
Sometimes people have pensions that they can turn
on right away for one benefit or they
can delay it until they reach a certain
age, 65, maybe if they're a government employee
and delaying that.
Um, and especially if they have a long
life expectancy is often a better choice than
(17:15):
just taking it when they can, when they're
accessed, when they have access to it, it
can provide them greater income security and greater
cashflow in retirement while if they're still able
to work, let's say before that 65 and
that's, or use their savings, which is really
counterintuitive for folks.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, uh, in the end, these are the
(17:37):
things that, you know, part of the planning
can help assess and evaluate, which is the
best way to do this.
But there are other related things, you know,
um, when it comes to, um, this one
is the cashflow, you know, how my withdrawal
strategies, where do I take it from, uh,
sequence, yeah, which, which bucket, if you will,
(17:58):
my retirement account, my Roth account, my taxable
money, you know, where do I draw from
when, you know, um, when it comes to
the portfolio design.
So similarly, where should I put which kind
of risk and so forth sometimes is part
of the equation.
Tax efficiency too, like Roth conversions, um, that
kind of thing.
(18:19):
I think that's a big decision that needs
to be made.
We seem to be talking about that a
lot lately.
Don't we?
Especially with, uh, the thought that maybe the
tax cut and jobs act may be extended,
gives people more of a window perhaps to
entertain that notion of.
Should I do some Roth conversion?
We, we had an interesting conversation yesterday where,
(18:39):
uh, you know, on the one hand, it
was yesterday, maybe the day before, anyway, recently
this week where we were talking about, you
know, on the one hand, uh, you could,
you have this very narrow window within your
tax bracket, uh, to, that you could fill.
Uh, at, at, at when you stop working,
if you were to go into the next
tax bracket, um, it probably makes sense because
(19:04):
you're going to be pushed into that tax
bracket anyway, later on because of distribution requirements.
And, um, by doing, filling that tax bracket,
we were thinking you'd probably actually stay in
that tax bracket and then get lower because
you'd have much less income later on, uh,
(19:27):
that you're over the lifetime.
You'd have less taxable income, uh, by, by
doing some of this planning.
And then the other variable we're thinking about
is, well, if one of you passes before
the other, you know, speaking of tax brackets,
that's exactly that's exactly the tax bracket is
going to be harder to deal with.
(19:48):
You'd be pushed perhaps even to even higher
tax bracket for a single person, whereas this
would keep you in lower tax rates.
So just when you started piling it all
together, it's sort of like, okay, this really
could make sense for you as a strategy
in your circumstance.
Again, it's circumstantial.
Everyone's instances are a little different.
So, uh, but that was a good example
(20:09):
of a, an instance where a little bit
of tax strategy, a little planning could really
make a difference over time.
And then when it comes to legacy, uh,
what their beneficiaries receive, it'll, it'll be materially
better because, you know, when you think about
it, a Roth IRA, if you receive that,
uh, I have 10 years to take it
(20:31):
out, same kind of 10 year rule applies
for that, um, beneficiary, um, inherited IRA, whatever
you want to call that.
In this case is a Roth.
If it's an IRA, it's a traditional IRA.
I've got 10 years to take it out.
I I've probably will have annual distribution requirements
(20:51):
along the way.
And by the 10th year, I've got to
get it all out.
Uh, that could be a big, big tax.
If I don't either way, I'm looking at
probably, you know, more taxable headaches where, um,
for the Roth, I can keep it in
that Roth all till the 10 years and
(21:12):
then take it out.
And there's no tax consequence for the beneficiaries.
So, you know, I mean, no, one's going
to complain whether they get a traditional or
a Roth.
They're going to be thrilled to get that
inheritance, but if they could pick one, but
yeah, if you have the choice.
Um, so in any case, that's one of
those things.
Um, tax planning is another element of this
(21:33):
that we find we're talking more and more
about, um, capital gains, um, as something people
are more and more focused on, we're talking
about, you know, Harvesting capital losses along the
way and trying to come up with strategies
that can help people to navigate some highly
appreciated assets without, you know, having a massive
(21:56):
tax day, you know, which nobody wants to
have that big, a long legacy position suddenly
have a huge tax.
Sometimes there's some strategies we can look to,
to try to navigate that a little bit.
So we've been talking about that too.
It's such a strong sentiment for some people
that they will not sell something that should
(22:18):
be sold because they don't want to pay
the tax.
Yes.
Yes.
Too much risk in the process.
Whatever reason it should be sold.
Yeah.
There it's, you know, it's too much of
your portfolio or the outlook for the company
isn't good, whatever it is.
They just, that's very resistant because they don't
(22:39):
want to pay taxes.
We've had clients say, well, gee, do you
think it'd be better to have it go
down in value?
No, no, no.
That's not paying 25% capital gain tax,
but you still want the, you'd rather have
the gain in that.
At the time, you have to go down
25%.
I'll pay less.
Yeah, exactly.
(22:59):
Not, not as appealing though, in reality.
And then, you know, the other thing that
I found, we, we talk about as part
of our plan for retirees is thinking about
the, what ifs, what if one, somebody dies
sooner than expected and how does that change
cash flows?
(23:19):
How does it, I mean, obviously it has
some impact on, you know, the, the heartbreak
of it all, but the, the, the cash
flows can be affected.
Oh, security.
We lost, exactly.
And then there's also the, you know, yeah,
some expenses change.
(23:40):
You know, maybe, you know, we need to
hire someone to do some of the things
that spouse did.
Maybe it changes where we want to live.
Yeah.
The expenses don't get cut in half.
No.
Yeah, that's right.
We were talking about that recently, but it,
you know, there may be some reduction, but
it's not, there's other increases, right?
(24:02):
And then, you know, you still own the
house, you still have property tax, insurance, utilities.
Those, those aren't going to change really all
that much.
You know, you're still going to have those
expenses that, you know, maybe you have one
car instead of two.
Okay.
That, that changes a little bit, you know,
that kind of thing.
But, but, you know, and there's the whole
issue, like, do I want to, do we
(24:23):
want to, where would you want to live?
Would you stay here?
Would you live closer to other, you know,
family members?
Would, would it, you know, what would there
be the ability to live independently as someone
ages or whatever?
Um, and long-term care becomes one of
those conversations.
Uh, what if, you know, the, what if,
(24:43):
what if, right?
That's the big, what if though, really?
I mean, it can be really, yeah.
It's the one that can really interfere with
someone's perceived plan with what they're going with
their cash.
And then what's the impact on the survivor,
right?
Um, so, you know, um, we run into
(25:05):
people who, um, have absolutely no idea whether
they will or won't have a long-term
care, uh, constant, you know, event.
And we run into other times when it's
kind of clear there is going to be
one.
And so how are we going to deal
with that?
What's let's do some planning.
Well, we do run into clients that say,
we're not going to have this event.
(25:26):
Yeah.
I'm going to take care of, we're going
to take care of each other at home.
That's our plan.
And they're firm about it.
That's true.
That happens.
And as much as they, um, believe that,
and we hope that's the case, it's not
always.
So, you know, usually in that case, I'll
say, well, you know, well, assuming you're, even
you're, if you're at home, if you had
(25:47):
full-time need for full-time care, you
know, those costs are going to be similar
to being in a nursing home.
Uh, you know, sometimes more, but, but you
could, you can kind of still do that
thought exercise about the costs, the full-time
care, wherever it might be.
Right.
Um, so, um, but that needs some thought
(26:10):
and some consideration.
And then, you know, I think we, uh,
we talk about estate planning a little bit,
um, legacy, uh, considerations, um, charitable, you know,
intentions.
How do you want to be remembered?
Right.
Yeah.
I think about that a lot.
And I think, um, you know, it's, it's
(26:33):
one of these things where you think, well,
well, anyone have noticed if, uh, if I'm
gone, you know, uh, that I was here,
will, will the, will the world have been
improved in any way, but, you know, for
my, uh, my role in it, you know,
and, uh, I think people, I think that's
important to some people to think about, you
know, what's, what's my legacy.
(26:53):
Um, and that sometimes that's about family.
Sometimes that's about, um, charitable intentions.
Um, it really differs from person to person.
What, you know, what is their priority about,
you know, when it comes to your financial
plan, then we, we see this, uh, experience
from all angles, you know, from early origins
(27:15):
to, uh, uh, end of life.
It's, it's challenging.
Um, it's not easy for people at any
stage along the way, sometimes to, you know,
really navigate this, um, on their own and
having a helping hand along the way, someone
who's been through it with, um, some experience
(27:35):
can be a real resource.
Sometimes it's a opportunity to challenge your perspectives.
We tend to make assumptions.
A lot of times we get caught in
our own, uh, bubble, you know, what we
see and think about, and sometimes, um, it
can really add value to have a second
set of eyes and what don't, you know,
(27:56):
right.
You know, that old question of what don't
I know about this subject, right?
If you're in your own cocoon and you
think everything's been fine, everything can be fine,
but what don't you know?
Not all rumsfeld, rumsfeld, right.
The known unknowns and the unknown unknowns or
something like that.
Right.
And every part, you know, we do the
(28:17):
same things applies to law and medicine and
all those things.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So if, if we can be a resource,
that's why we're here.
Uh, let us be a resource to you.
And, um, we're happy to be, be able
to help if we can.
Um, we offer a complimentary consultation.
It's available to you just by asking, uh,
(28:40):
reach out to us, uh, either by phone
or by email.
We'll give you that information as we wrap
up the show until next time, everybody keeps
driving for something more.
Thank you for listening to something more with
Chris Boyd.
Call us for help, whether it's for financial
planning or portfolio management, insurance concerns, or those
(29:00):
quality of life issues that make the money
matters matter.
Whatever's on your mind.
Visit us at something more with chrisboyd.com
or call us toll free at 866-771
-8901, or send us your questions to amr
-info at wealthenhancement.com.
You're listening to something more with Chris Boyd,
(29:22):
financial talk show, wealth enhancement, advisory services, and
Jay Christopher Boyd provide investment advice on an
individual basis to clients only proper advice depends
on a complete analysis of all facts and
circumstances.
The information given on this program is general
financial comments and cannot be relied upon as
pertaining to your specific situation.
Wealth Enhancement Group cannot guarantee that using the
information from this show will generate profits or
ensure freedom from loss.
(29:43):
Listeners should consult their own financial advisors or
conduct their own due diligence before making any
financial decisions.
Welcome to something more with Chris Boyd.
Chris Boyd is a certified financial planner, practitioner,
and senior vice president, financial advisor at wealth
enhancement group.
One of the nation's largest registered investment advisors.
We call it something more because we'd like
to talk not only about those important dollar
and cents issues, but also the quality of
life issues that make the money matters matter.
(00:22):
Here he is your fulfillment facilitator, your partner
in prosperity, advising clients on Cape Cod and
across the country.
Here's your host, Jay Christopher Boyd.
Come to the program.
I'm Chris Boyd.
I'm here with Jeff Perry and Russ Ball.
We are all from the AMR team at
wealth enhancement group and glad to have you
joining us for another episode of something more.
(00:46):
Um, it's, uh, the dead of winter.
We were just talking to Russ and I,
as we were getting the show started, feels
like a, it's cold season coming on and,
uh, not, uh, not as cold where Jeff
Perry is.
So hopefully, uh, staying healthy there.
Um, we are coming to you from our
studio here in Hyannis and Jeff is coming
(01:08):
to you from Florida.
I am, and it's cold here.
Relatively speaking.
It's only been in the sixties.
Oh, geez.
Hard to hope.
Yeah.
This is Arctic.
I'm to call it the, uh, Arctic front
or something's named for it.
Yeah.
Sleeping statement for, for Florida at least.
(01:28):
Well, this past week, Florida had record level
snow in the, uh, big bend and Pensacola
area.
Oh, wow.
My brother on the Gulf of America, the
Gulf of America, right at the top of
the Gulf of America.
Yeah.
Russ, you were saying, yeah, my brother lives
in, uh, right, right outside New Orleans and,
uh, I woke up in the morning, he's,
(01:51):
uh, texted a picture, walking the dogs in
the snow.
Yeah.
Wow.
And that's the last thing you'd expect.
So first time in years in, uh, New
Orleans, I would snow.
All right.
But that's not really what we're going to
talk about today.
Sorry.
I got a, we got a little sidetracked,
um, changing seasons.
Um, we are really intending to talk about,
yeah, changing seasons.
(02:12):
That's a good, that's a good segue, Jeff.
Um, changing seasons of life.
As people go through different phases of their
planning, we were talking about some recent client
experiences and having seen them through, uh, the
range of the, the arc of their financial
plan.
I was just saying one of my, um,
(02:32):
longest clients, uh, just passed away.
Um, I think really my first client, uh,
uh, if, I don't know if it was
my client in insurance, but I had worked
with them in insurance when I started insurance,
but my first client, when I started as,
um, uh, in financial planning and, and working
(02:53):
with people in investing and, um, in those
days, um, you know, we were, I was,
I was a registered rep of a broker
dealer.
And so the way we did things was
we sold a mutual fund and different, you
know, trying to fill out and figure out
what was the right mix of funds for
people to meet their needs.
(03:14):
And, uh, this family was, uh, my first
client in that experience and have been with
me all along the way.
And, um, uh, across my career and more
across their experience from going through, um, and
this particular family, they had won the lottery,
uh, some, some lottery winnings, not all disclosure,
(03:38):
not all of our clients win the lottery.
Yeah, exactly.
Uh, and they were friends of our family
and, um, went to my, uh, my dad
for their estate planning and, uh, now that
my brother who was friends with their, their
kids and, um, in any case, it was,
(04:01):
um, um, a circumstance where they were planning
for their future and starting on their, their
path to retirement is, you know, when you
win that kind of money, you start thinking,
what should we do?
You know?
Um, was, I don't want to get too
much into detail, but were they clients?
So they won the lottery.
Were they clients before they won the lottery?
(04:24):
Uh, not of mine.
Um, I think, no, I think that was
what the catalyst that got started on saying,
okay, you know, um, given the, their, you
know, new financial circumstances, how should they think
about their planning?
Yeah.
I got them really focused on their estate
(04:44):
planning, their financial planning of, you know, various
types.
Um, so in those days, uh, the estate
tax threshold was much lower.
So there was some concern about having liquidity
for estate taxes.
Right.
So that involved an insurance component.
There were things about, you know, their, uh,
cash flows and, you know, income.
(05:06):
And, um, you know, they thought about, uh,
spending time in Florida.
And so they just started all the, you
know, the planning of, well, how shall they
do this, what, what will be their priority
and keeping, uh, uh, kind of, uh, a
cautious eye they didn't, you know, they wanted
to have, uh, some risk and some performance,
(05:27):
but they also want to be very careful
with the money they had, yes, which is
not always the case when you hear it,
uh, yeah, go ahead.
Lottery winning winners who just fail at it.
Right.
They just, usually they're so extravagant or they're
super generous.
I'm rich.
Oh, they make bad investments.
(05:47):
You know, everyone with a, everyone who didn't
make it on a shark tank is knocking
at that door.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, you know, they were very, very careful
and, um.
And then, um, you know, over time, you
know, just the cashflow through retirement and how
things were going.
And, uh, along the way, uh, he passed
(06:11):
and she lived on and, uh, we continued
to be a resource in helping think about
things, uh, her care needs changed over time,
you know, and we talked about a different,
would you want to do this?
Would you consider doing that?
You know?
Um, so had, had some important conversations, but
ultimately it was matter of what's preferred, what,
(06:33):
you know, what, what they want.
And, uh, so it was good.
And ultimately, um, just recently, um, um, this
client passed, but it's, it's the kind of,
you know, kind of, it's, it's sad when
I was saying to Russ, that's one of
the drawbacks of, uh, uh, we work with
retirees and, um, we see them through, uh,
(06:57):
the beginning to end.
And it's, it's, you know, we've, we've had
a lot of clients that over the years
and as a consequence, you know, some have
passed and it's, uh, it's one of the,
one of the parts of the business that's,
um, you know, personal, you've, you have a
connection with all these people and, and, you
know, you care not to, it's hard not
(07:17):
to, right.
Yeah.
We care about their, their journey, you know,
and they share so much with you.
They share their, their fears, their hopes, their
dreams.
They share when good things happen, when challenges
happen.
Yeah.
So you become closer to a lot.
I mean, different, uh, family members passed along
the way.
(07:37):
Anyway, you know, you, you, you connected to
that kind of thing.
So in any case, um, Uh, this brings
me to an interesting article.
I came across that maybe we can, um,
deviate from the specifics of this, but it's,
it's, you know, um, uh, kind of related
(07:57):
to this topic.
There was an article in, uh, the February
Kiplinger, uh, uh, article, the cover of the
magazine talks about, you know, just the very
issues of retirement, um, getting the right advice
in retirement and, you know, it has the
graphic on the top where it's got all
these street signs pointing in different directions for,
you know, withdrawal strategies, charitable giving a state
(08:20):
planning, long-term care, minimizing taxes, social security,
planning, uh, generating income, creating a budget, all
these things that, you know, we, we do
and our routine with the way, how we
think about working with clients and thinking through
how shall they, um, how can we help
(08:42):
them in thinking about the issues they need
to plan for as they go through their,
um, retirement journey?
Chris, let me ask you kind of a
foundational question based on that.
When should someone people listening, some are a
brand new people to the show, a brand
new to getting their finances in order, some
(09:03):
are retired, some are wealthy, some are not.
When should someone consider seeing a financial advisor?
Like, yeah, uh, now, uh, right.
You know, I guess the answer, right.
You know, no, I'm, I'm kind of being
flippant, but you know, I think as soon
as possible is, is the best answer.
Um, that, um, if you're, uh, starting out,
(09:27):
um, you're better benefited by getting a little,
uh, advice, a little counsel, Jeff, I mean,
we've had a number of clients that you've
done a great job in kind of saying,
getting them on the right path, thinking about,
um, how do they either reduce their debt
load or plan for their cash?
You know, like set us, how much do
(09:47):
I set aside?
How much do I plan for savings and
investment?
So on the early end of things, it's
like as soon as possible.
Right.
And, and the challenges, of course, you know,
and along the way, many stages along the
way, you say, I just don't have enough,
right.
And that's going to be true for lots
of people, you know, no matter what stage
of your journey.
Uh, a lot of times people feel like,
(10:10):
oh, I'm not sure I have enough to
be thinking that way.
And that's really why maybe, because you got
to prioritize and think about, uh, what should
or shouldn't I do?
And, you know, the decisions about how to
plan for where your money goes.
And you can't get stuck, right.
I don't have enough, therefore I won't do
(10:31):
anything.
Yeah.
And it can be emotionally draining.
Let's say when you're, when you're upside down
in, in the, you know, things are going
the wrong direction and it's not as though
it's always like an easy fix, you know,
I don't want to make light of things.
On the other hand though, uh, you know,
sometimes fresh eyes can say, well, maybe you
(10:51):
want to consider this.
And sometimes it's, um, it is not easy.
It, you know, it's, it's, it's challenging.
It's difficult, but taking that, uh, difficult path
can get you to the other side more,
uh, rapidly.
And, and I think sometimes it's a little
bit of perspective of, you know, just, well,
(11:13):
let's look at the math.
I mean, this is, this is arithmetic, you
know, like what can we do?
Um, I don't have enough.
Well, maybe we should think about a roommate
or, oh, maybe you want to think about
a cheaper car or, you know, well, maybe
we need to think about a different job,
you know, whatever it is on that early
end.
Right.
There's, there's lots of, you know, things to
(11:34):
consider.
Uh, it's not to say that it's easy,
but there's ways to think about it.
Right.
Yeah.
Go ahead.
I think, especially for younger people, um, just
like taking a step back and actually thinking
about it, like, wow, this is actually a
plan.
It's not just like going, you know, paycheck
to paycheck.
Oh, like, uh, yeah.
Winging it.
And, and it's about creating efficiency and starting
(11:56):
to actually build wealth.
I think that's, those are the discussions I
have with my, my friends as, as their
de facto, uh, advisor, um, is like, there
are a lot of things that they just
haven't really thought about.
And when we look at a financial plan,
we're looking at like your goals, your big
picture goals.
And sometimes that's the place to start where,
uh, a lot of people are thinking about
their goals in five years and 10 years
(12:17):
and 30 years.
So, and, and that can get people excited,
right?
When you're thinking about something, progress ultimately.
Yeah.
There's some small steps towards something that, that
makes you like, it changes the mindset where
it's, it's framed differently instead of framed as
like a sacrifice, uh, it's framed as progress,
(12:41):
working towards opportunity and progress.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's a great point.
You know, and then, you know, as, as
things evolve, uh, people's increases and there's greater
opportunity.
And sometimes it's just executing on fundamentals, right?
Um, we know, you know, blocking and tackling
or whatever it is, right.
Yeah.
We know that just keep doing the right
(13:03):
things and, uh, not getting off track by
getting, um, you know, uh, taking, making some
bad decisions along the way.
Right.
You know, bad decisions may be the wrong
way to say it, but the idea of
like getting, getting distracted, overextending, um, that kind
of thing are easy to do along the
way.
So you want to keep on a path
(13:25):
that keeps you in that wealth creation phase
as, as you were talking about it, Ross.
And, you know, I think, um, some of
this is just keep doing the right things,
you know, in, in time is your, is
your, uh, your, your, um, it's your advantage
in this, that given time things compound and
(13:45):
wealth has increased over time and there will
be bumps in the road with markets disrupted.
And these are the inevitabilities of it all,
but, um, uh, don't overextend.
Right.
Um, uh, so, and then, you know, the,
with the buying habits and spending habits and
(14:05):
all of these kinds of things, keeping some
perspective and, and sometimes a planner, um, you
know, we talk about, um, accountability partners when
it comes to coaches and things like this.
Sometimes it's not even, you know, it's not
accountability as much as just like, you know,
keeping you on track, you know, you doing
these things and sometimes it's strategy.
Oh, have you thought about the mega backdoor
(14:27):
Roth or, you know, whatever it might be,
or, you know, and sometimes it's just, um,
uh, you know, thinking about, well, how much
can I afford when I want to do
this goal?
You know, we had a client, uh, not
long ago, uh, by a, a second home.
Um, uh, you know, it's, uh, unexpectedly to
(14:48):
us, but it was something that they, they
saw a lot of value in for, uh,
the possibility of a future retirement home.
Uh, the, the importance of family experience, you
know, they're going to have a lot of
family time there.
Super common goal.
Yeah.
So, I mean, you know, and, and their
income, when we, we kind of went through
(15:09):
it, it was like, yeah, it seems like,
you know, it's going to create equity.
It's going to, it's something you can afford.
Um, it it's, you know, there's a, there's
a value element of it as well.
So it was like, it was kind of
all these, uh, virtues, uh, built in.
Um, now it does add some expenses cause
you got to, you know, utility bills.
(15:30):
But, um, but in this, in this particular
instance, it all seemed like it was a
good, it was good math, you know, but,
um, and then, you know, as we, as
we get later in life, we start thinking
about one of the things that we run
into a lot is people are spending time,
um, racing to the finish line, if you
(15:52):
will.
And they're, they're thinking of retirement, uh, away
from work as, uh, the finish line when
in reality it's, it's its own beginning, right.
But it is a time when people reassess
how much risk do I want in my
portfolio?
Should I be as aggressive as I've been
in the past?
(16:13):
Um, it's a time when then people start
thinking about how am I going to manage
these cashflows?
You know, we talk about all the social
security decisions and, uh, you know, social security
turning on and retirement start don't have to
be the same time.
But, uh, if I'm not turning on social
security, I'm spending too much of my money,
you know, this kind of thing.
Well, on the other hand, that might save
(16:34):
you money over your retirement.
You know, that's a tough one for people
to process, but it really is, but it's,
yeah.
Uh, we talked about pensions, same idea with
pensions.
If you have a pension option, go ahead.
Continue with that.
No, it's the same.
Um, you know, like people struggle about wanting
to take social security or they take it
(16:54):
at the default.
Sometimes it's to take it as soon as
possible.
Right.
Sometimes people have pensions that they can turn
on right away for one benefit or they
can delay it until they reach a certain
age, 65, maybe if they're a government employee
and delaying that.
Um, and especially if they have a long
life expectancy is often a better choice than
(17:15):
just taking it when they can, when they're
accessed, when they have access to it, it
can provide them greater income security and greater
cashflow in retirement while if they're still able
to work, let's say before that 65 and
that's, or use their savings, which is really
counterintuitive for folks.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, uh, in the end, these are the
(17:37):
things that, you know, part of the planning
can help assess and evaluate, which is the
best way to do this.
But there are other related things, you know,
um, when it comes to, um, this one
is the cashflow, you know, how my withdrawal
strategies, where do I take it from, uh,
sequence, yeah, which, which bucket, if you will,
(17:58):
my retirement account, my Roth account, my taxable
money, you know, where do I draw from
when, you know, um, when it comes to
the portfolio design.
So similarly, where should I put which kind
of risk and so forth sometimes is part
of the equation.
Tax efficiency too, like Roth conversions, um, that
kind of thing.
(18:19):
I think that's a big decision that needs
to be made.
We seem to be talking about that a
lot lately.
Don't we?
Especially with, uh, the thought that maybe the
tax cut and jobs act may be extended,
gives people more of a window perhaps to
entertain that notion of.
Should I do some Roth conversion?
We, we had an interesting conversation yesterday where,
(18:39):
uh, you know, on the one hand, it
was yesterday, maybe the day before, anyway, recently
this week where we were talking about, you
know, on the one hand, uh, you could,
you have this very narrow window within your
tax bracket, uh, to, that you could fill.
Uh, at, at, at when you stop working,
if you were to go into the next
tax bracket, um, it probably makes sense because
(19:04):
you're going to be pushed into that tax
bracket anyway, later on because of distribution requirements.
And, um, by doing, filling that tax bracket,
we were thinking you'd probably actually stay in
that tax bracket and then get lower because
you'd have much less income later on, uh,
(19:27):
that you're over the lifetime.
You'd have less taxable income, uh, by, by
doing some of this planning.
And then the other variable we're thinking about
is, well, if one of you passes before
the other, you know, speaking of tax brackets,
that's exactly that's exactly the tax bracket is
going to be harder to deal with.
(19:48):
You'd be pushed perhaps even to even higher
tax bracket for a single person, whereas this
would keep you in lower tax rates.
So just when you started piling it all
together, it's sort of like, okay, this really
could make sense for you as a strategy
in your circumstance.
Again, it's circumstantial.
Everyone's instances are a little different.
So, uh, but that was a good example
(20:09):
of a, an instance where a little bit
of tax strategy, a little planning could really
make a difference over time.
And then when it comes to legacy, uh,
what their beneficiaries receive, it'll, it'll be materially
better because, you know, when you think about
it, a Roth IRA, if you receive that,
uh, I have 10 years to take it
(20:31):
out, same kind of 10 year rule applies
for that, um, beneficiary, um, inherited IRA, whatever
you want to call that.
In this case is a Roth.
If it's an IRA, it's a traditional IRA.
I've got 10 years to take it out.
I I've probably will have annual distribution requirements
(20:51):
along the way.
And by the 10th year, I've got to
get it all out.
Uh, that could be a big, big tax.
If I don't either way, I'm looking at
probably, you know, more taxable headaches where, um,
for the Roth, I can keep it in
that Roth all till the 10 years and
(21:12):
then take it out.
And there's no tax consequence for the beneficiaries.
So, you know, I mean, no, one's going
to complain whether they get a traditional or
a Roth.
They're going to be thrilled to get that
inheritance, but if they could pick one, but
yeah, if you have the choice.
Um, so in any case, that's one of
those things.
Um, tax planning is another element of this
(21:33):
that we find we're talking more and more
about, um, capital gains, um, as something people
are more and more focused on, we're talking
about, you know, Harvesting capital losses along the
way and trying to come up with strategies
that can help people to navigate some highly
appreciated assets without, you know, having a massive
(21:56):
tax day, you know, which nobody wants to
have that big, a long legacy position suddenly
have a huge tax.
Sometimes there's some strategies we can look to,
to try to navigate that a little bit.
So we've been talking about that too.
It's such a strong sentiment for some people
that they will not sell something that should
(22:18):
be sold because they don't want to pay
the tax.
Yes.
Yes.
Too much risk in the process.
Whatever reason it should be sold.
Yeah.
There it's, you know, it's too much of
your portfolio or the outlook for the company
isn't good, whatever it is.
They just, that's very resistant because they don't
(22:39):
want to pay taxes.
We've had clients say, well, gee, do you
think it'd be better to have it go
down in value?
No, no, no.
That's not paying 25% capital gain tax,
but you still want the, you'd rather have
the gain in that.
At the time, you have to go down
25%.
I'll pay less.
Yeah, exactly.
(22:59):
Not, not as appealing though, in reality.
And then, you know, the other thing that
I found, we, we talk about as part
of our plan for retirees is thinking about
the, what ifs, what if one, somebody dies
sooner than expected and how does that change
cash flows?
(23:19):
How does it, I mean, obviously it has
some impact on, you know, the, the heartbreak
of it all, but the, the, the cash
flows can be affected.
Oh, security.
We lost, exactly.
And then there's also the, you know, yeah,
some expenses change.
(23:40):
You know, maybe, you know, we need to
hire someone to do some of the things
that spouse did.
Maybe it changes where we want to live.
Yeah.
The expenses don't get cut in half.
No.
Yeah, that's right.
We were talking about that recently, but it,
you know, there may be some reduction, but
it's not, there's other increases, right?
(24:02):
And then, you know, you still own the
house, you still have property tax, insurance, utilities.
Those, those aren't going to change really all
that much.
You know, you're still going to have those
expenses that, you know, maybe you have one
car instead of two.
Okay.
That, that changes a little bit, you know,
that kind of thing.
But, but, you know, and there's the whole
issue, like, do I want to, do we
(24:23):
want to, where would you want to live?
Would you stay here?
Would you live closer to other, you know,
family members?
Would, would it, you know, what would there
be the ability to live independently as someone
ages or whatever?
Um, and long-term care becomes one of
those conversations.
Uh, what if, you know, the, what if,
(24:43):
what if, right?
That's the big, what if though, really?
I mean, it can be really, yeah.
It's the one that can really interfere with
someone's perceived plan with what they're going with
their cash.
And then what's the impact on the survivor,
right?
Um, so, you know, um, we run into
(25:05):
people who, um, have absolutely no idea whether
they will or won't have a long-term
care, uh, constant, you know, event.
And we run into other times when it's
kind of clear there is going to be
one.
And so how are we going to deal
with that?
What's let's do some planning.
Well, we do run into clients that say,
we're not going to have this event.
(25:26):
Yeah.
I'm going to take care of, we're going
to take care of each other at home.
That's our plan.
And they're firm about it.
That's true.
That happens.
And as much as they, um, believe that,
and we hope that's the case, it's not
always.
So, you know, usually in that case, I'll
say, well, you know, well, assuming you're, even
you're, if you're at home, if you had
(25:47):
full-time need for full-time care, you
know, those costs are going to be similar
to being in a nursing home.
Uh, you know, sometimes more, but, but you
could, you can kind of still do that
thought exercise about the costs, the full-time
care, wherever it might be.
Right.
Um, so, um, but that needs some thought
(26:10):
and some consideration.
And then, you know, I think we, uh,
we talk about estate planning a little bit,
um, legacy, uh, considerations, um, charitable, you know,
intentions.
How do you want to be remembered?
Right.
Yeah.
I think about that a lot.
And I think, um, you know, it's, it's
(26:33):
one of these things where you think, well,
well, anyone have noticed if, uh, if I'm
gone, you know, uh, that I was here,
will, will the, will the world have been
improved in any way, but, you know, for
my, uh, my role in it, you know,
and, uh, I think people, I think that's
important to some people to think about, you
know, what's, what's my legacy.
(26:53):
Um, and that sometimes that's about family.
Sometimes that's about, um, charitable intentions.
Um, it really differs from person to person.
What, you know, what is their priority about,
you know, when it comes to your financial
plan, then we, we see this, uh, experience
from all angles, you know, from early origins
(27:15):
to, uh, uh, end of life.
It's, it's challenging.
Um, it's not easy for people at any
stage along the way, sometimes to, you know,
really navigate this, um, on their own and
having a helping hand along the way, someone
who's been through it with, um, some experience
(27:35):
can be a real resource.
Sometimes it's a opportunity to challenge your perspectives.
We tend to make assumptions.
A lot of times we get caught in
our own, uh, bubble, you know, what we
see and think about, and sometimes, um, it
can really add value to have a second
set of eyes and what don't, you know,
(27:56):
right.
You know, that old question of what don't
I know about this subject, right?
If you're in your own cocoon and you
think everything's been fine, everything can be fine,
but what don't you know?
Not all rumsfeld, rumsfeld, right.
The known unknowns and the unknown unknowns or
something like that.
Right.
And every part, you know, we do the
(28:17):
same things applies to law and medicine and
all those things.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So if, if we can be a resource,
that's why we're here.
Uh, let us be a resource to you.
And, um, we're happy to be, be able
to help if we can.
Um, we offer a complimentary consultation.
It's available to you just by asking, uh,
(28:40):
reach out to us, uh, either by phone
or by email.
We'll give you that information as we wrap
up the show until next time, everybody keeps
driving for something more.
Thank you for listening to something more with
Chris Boyd.
Call us for help, whether it's for financial
planning or portfolio management, insurance concerns, or those
(29:00):
quality of life issues that make the money
matters matter.
Whatever's on your mind.
Visit us at something more with chrisboyd.com
or call us toll free at 866-771
-8901, or send us your questions to amr
-info at wealthenhancement.com.
You're listening to something more with Chris Boyd,
(29:22):
financial talk show, wealth enhancement, advisory services, and
Jay Christopher Boyd provide investment advice on an
individual basis to clients only proper advice depends
on a complete analysis of all facts and
circumstances.
The information given on this program is general
financial comments and cannot be relied upon as
pertaining to your specific situation.
Wealth Enhancement Group cannot guarantee that using the
information from this show will generate profits or
ensure freedom from loss.
(29:43):
Listeners should consult their own financial advisors or
conduct their own due diligence before making any
financial decisions.
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