June 17, 2024 • 45 mins
Welcome to episode 153 of Sports Management Podcast.
Matt Farrell is a Sports Marketing Consultant, founder of Farrell Sports and the CEO of Bat Around. Matt is a seasoned sport professional with experiences from the US Olympic Committee, USA Swimming and more. Despite being in his mid-50’s he is currently staying up to date on trends in the sports industry and gives back to the younger generation through his TikTok videos and recently launched podcast.
We spoke about:
- How he got his first job in sports
- Why being cut from the baseball team was the best thing that ever happened to him
- The importance of internships
- If GPA is even important
- Working for USA Swimming during the Michael Phelps era, but also at the time of heavy criticism due to sexual abuse cases
- Matt’s best advice for young people in sports
And much more!
WATCH ON YOUTUBE: https://youtu.be/w6M0eDSj-fY
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
01:39 Farrell Sports
05:06 Bat Around Concept
08:13 Experience at USA Swimming
14:13 Social Media and Industry Knowledge
19:46 Advice for Young Professionals
28:42 Mentorship and Networking
42:20 Future of Emerging Sports
44:00 Outro
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to Sports Management podcast where you will hear interesting sports management professionals share their stories, experiences and passion for the sports management industry. I am your host, Marcus Philipson. Welcome to episode 153 of Sports Management podcast. If you have ever learned anything from this show, please show your gratitude by subscribing to the podcast in your podcast app. And if you feel extra generous, leave a five star review. This will help the show grow and the bigger the show, the bigger the guests. Thank you. Today's guest is Matt Farrell, a sports marketing consultant, founder of Farrell Sports and the CEO of Bat around. Matt is a seasoned sports professional with experiences from US Olympic Committee, USA Swimming and more. Despite being in his mid fifties, he's currently staying up to date on trends in the sports industry and gives back to the younger generation.
(01:01):
Through his TikTok videos and recently launched podcast, we spoke about how he got his first job in sports, why being cut from the baseball team was the best thing that ever happened to him, the importance of internships if GPA is even important, working for USA Swimming during the Michael Phelps era, but also at the time of heavy criticism due to sexual abuse cases. Matt's best advice for young people in sports and much more. Matt Ferrell, welcome to Sports Management podcast.
(01:38):
Thank you Marcus.
It's great to have you on. And for those who might not know who you are the president of Farrell Sports working with several pool clients. You can PBX, pickleball, the US Olympic and Paralympic Committee and many more. So can you talk a little bit about what it is that you do?
(02:01):
Oh great. Thanks Marcus. Yeah. Feral Sports is a small consulting business focused purely on the business side of sports. Anything on the field of play? I don't look at that part at all. So everything is on the business and marketing side. Most notably right now my focus is with a company serving as its CEO of a company called Bat around, which we can certainly talk about more later. Think top golf for baseball, PBX, Pickleball, which is an experiential company where people like you and I can play pickleball with former professional athletes from the NFL, Major League Baseball and then I really have a long history in the Olympic world and so there are a lot of clients that come in for special projects. Usually tend to be more difficult projects.
(02:54):
Everything from the US Olympic Committee, which is now the US Olympic and Paralympic Committee, USA football. I've done projects for USA Pickleball and with my own background with USA Swimming, I've been able to use that to really just help with very specific projects related to marketing, sponsorship, and promoting the brand of those sports. So that's my main world.
(03:17):
That's cool. And as you said, you have worked in the Olympic world and, you know, for 25 or almost 30 years now in, you know, prominent roles in the sport industry. But you started your own company in 2020. So why did you decide to start your own company after working in executive roles in sports?
(03:39):
Well, I stumbled into it by accident in many ways. I left USA swimming in 2018. I went to the Golf channel, and quite honestly, Marcus, I plan to retire there and make that my end of career stop. And Covid and some other factors interrupted that. And like many, I had to reinvent myself. For me, it happened when I was in my early fifties. So here I am at 52 at the time, trying to figure out how to reinvent my career. So not knowing how long the pandemic would last, I created my own company purely to fill a gap on the resume. That was it. And then it started to work.
(04:32):
And through the relationships I had, the network I built, over time, client projects started to come, and it was probably six to nine months into it where I realized, hey, I can actually, this is my tipping point. I can make this work as a standalone consulting business. But that wasn't the long term plan.
(04:54):
I see. So you mentioned battaround, which is also something you're doing currently as the CEO, when you explained it very well that as a top goal for baseball, but I hadn't heard about it. Now, baseball is not huge in Sweden, to be fair, but can you talk a little bit about battaround and what your role is there?
Yeah, my role with Bataround is the CEO, and it is a startup, and we've just started to come out with our, what I'll call our beta project. But really the origin of it came from just a, the growth of mixed reality, b, the growth of gaming and interactivity. And see, baseball, especially in the United States, had a lot of very good technical training products, a lot of great technology out there, but very few had gamified it. And that was our aha moment there. And so visually, maybe think top golf. Visually, you could think of a golf simulator where I'm hitting the ball off of a pitching machine or off of a batting tee and then all the animation plays out on the screen and you and I can play games against each other.
(06:16):
And it's served to be a product that really just enhances and helps break up the monotony of training for existing players. But we're also finding that it's really a fun entertainment product and adults get in there and swing and they almost say the same thing when they walk out, which was another enlightening moment. They usually say something nice about the game of that was fun, that was cool. But then they say, I haven't swung a bat since. And that's when we knew we had something of creating a really fun experience to reengage people with the game and also make it fun for youth players who are avidly involved in the game.
(07:01):
Interesting. It started in 2022. So how has it been received so far?
Yeah, the germ of the idea also came during COVID and so it, you know, like any startup, it has its ups and downs and sometimes it's on the crash cart. And so we're really just starting to release this now. And so we've have our first Major League Baseball deal with the Tampa Bay Rays where the Concourse, the activity on the concourse for the Tampa Bay Rays. Our first MLB team will be at the College World Series for baseball in June in Omaha for the second time. This time we'll be doing it in a partnership with Rawlings and Easton. And I live in Colorado. And so we did a pop up activation with the Colorado Rockies at their fan fest earlier this year and now in about 26 batting cages across the country of releasing the software.
(08:03):
And so we're starting to really just hit that tipping point and that build moment and I'm a little close to it, Marcus, but so far so good.
That's cool. So prior to that, you worked at USA Swimming, as you mentioned, for 13 years. So how's the difference of working for an NGB versus now working for a startup and having your own company?
(08:27):
I'll rewind a little bit. Like coming out of college, I thought working in sports meant college athletics in the us college system or a pro team. So I was really finding the Olympic sports a little bit by accident and an internship was very eye opening. And so in that world, you're working with a sport that has for the most part began in the 1970s from an organizational and governance standpoint and it's still using a very volunteer based structure, a very state by state structure. And so, and it's very youth participation oriented. Most people think USA swimming, they think, oh, the Olympics. What do you do the other three and a half years of your job when youre not dealing with Michael Phelps or Missy Franklin?
(09:24):
And the reality is its a youth sports organization with 400,000 members, 8910 year olds on swim teams across the country. So its a very different take on working in sports. To work in an organization like that where you don't have venues, you don't have a stadium, you don't have a team in your city, it's a national organization, and there's not a right or wrong. It's just different for those people that might typically work at a professional sports team or college and have the stadium be across the street and player there in your city, it's just a different take on working in sports.
(10:03):
What a time, as you mentioned, Michael Phelps there, for example, what a time to work for USA Swimming. During these years, with all the success.
That you had, it was amazing. You really just talk about just go down the line of Michael Phelps, Ryan Lochte, Missy Franklin, Katie Ledecky, Caleb Dressel, and the US swim team winning over 30 medals in most international competitions. So at times, it was an embarrassment of riches, but as a marketer, it's a dream. And sometimes you just get lucky with your timing in life.
(10:43):
Yeah, I can understand that. And again, before that, a lot of work in the Olympic committees. So you said you got into that through an internship. Did I hear that right?
Yes. When I was in college, I applied and got an internship at USA Swimming. And so that was my introduction to the Olympic world. When I finished college, my really, my first year round, full time job was the opportunity to come back to USA swimming in a communications role. And so that's what really opened the door. And then from there, I would love to look back and tell you how smart it was, but it wasn't. It was a little bit of dumb luck. There were a few key milestones that came after that, and some listeners will laugh. One of them was the invention of the Internet, really, during the nineties, when I was starting my career and being smart enough to realize, ooh, that's a path I need to follow.
(11:47):
And then really, in the two thousands, realizing, okay, I was not going to be a web developer. That was not my skill. I need to get on the business side of this, of sponsorship. And so take that internship, and then you find two key pivot points career wise, from there. Really, in hindsight, looking back to it, those were just key decisions along my path.
(12:14):
William, you need some luck as well. But of course, the harder you work, the more luck you get. That was a swedish skier who said that once.
I have a phrase that's not quite as popular, but I just tell people luck needs a place to land, and it's very similar in concept. It's not like I was just sitting in my backyard or messing around. I was working hard and that creates the opportunity. So I believe the skier.
(12:44):
I heard analogy on social media. Someone said, it's like the red cars. If you're going to work and someone asks you how many red cars did you see? Then you will not know. But if you said tomorrow, look for red cars, then you will see a lot of red cars. And that luck works in a similar way. If you look for opportunities, then you will see them more.
(13:04):
William Ive never heard it described that way. I like it. Ive always had a theory as well that sometimes we get accused of falling in love with our own ideas on any job. Thats fair. But the way I always described it is sometimes you see a path based on your own experiences or you see three dots that can be connected. Sometimes it's ego that we fall in love with our ideas, but sometimes we actually see the vision of how these things connect. And so I like your description.
(13:39):
You mentioned the Internet and that hasn't been around. If Gen z listeners now, they will be, they will not understand what you're talking about, that there was such a time when there was no Internet. But what I like, I found you first on TikTok, and I find that really admirable, but also that you are not like the core consumer of this app. But there is a lot of young people who are there and that you, with, you know, 30 plus years of experience in the field is sharing your knowledge on this platform. I think it's really great because that's what I want to do as well on this podcast, to share yours and others stories. But of course, now a lot of people are on TikTok. So how was your decision making going into starting to create content and also more specifically on TikTok?
(14:32):
TikTok has been so much fun and I've learned a lot about it. I started on TikTok again when I was in my early to middle fifties and I felt like an idiot to start. And it really started because I wanted to understand the medium. If I was going to help counsel clients on their strategy, I really wanted to understand the medium. I would say the same. Or when Twitter, when it started, before it became x and even podcasting, which was around and went away and now has come back in a resurgence, I want to understand those mediums, and the best way to do it is to dive in and do it yourself.
(15:20):
With TikTok in particular, you started realizing, no matter how niche your expertise is, and it could be crocheting or ice fishing or whatever it might be, there's an audience in a community on TikTok, and I thought I was going to get made fun of for my age of like, get off this app, old man. And it just didn't happen that way. And there was an audience of people who wanted to work in sports, especially young people in college in their twenties that appreciated it. And then with anything on TikTok, sometimes you're overly punished by the algorithm, sometimes you're overly rewarded by the algorithm. And it just flicked in many ways and just made it fun. There's certainly still trolls out there, but for the most part, it's fulfilled a niche and I don't think I'll ever become a Kardashian in terms of numbers.
(16:29):
But theres clearly an appetite for content out there of people who want to know what its like working in sports and how to get insight into that business.
Thats whats so great about it, right? Since the core consumer on the app is younger, they dont have the same type of experience and knowledge that you do. So someone who comes in and can feed the algorithm with knowledge and maybe where did you go wrong and what did you learn from it and how to act in a job interview. And just so many great, I'm trying to pull from memory here, but there are some things that I've seen from your page, but that you now can share with them. And of course there will always be trolls, but I'm sure that there are so many people that take great value from it as well.
(17:17):
Well, I hope so. That's been the fun of it. If there's one common lesson learned about starting my own business, starting my TikTok, we'll see about the podcasting piece is, I think sometimes we feel like we want to appeal to the masses with anything that we do from content perspective or marketing, or how we position our product or our business. And I've found it to be the exact opposite, really. Just narrowly focus on your core expertise. And while that may be a small slice of the overall pie, you're better served with specific expertise. And that's how clients come. That's how followers come versus trying to be a generalist.
(18:08):
You mentioned the podcast and you're up. Depending on when this is released, you're probably around five episodes. Four so far. You said you maybe there is one in the bank. So why did you decide to start the podcast?
You know, probably for similar reasons. A. I mean, I feel like I have used my career to create a lot of great relationships and people who have great stories to tell and honestly, there's a little bit of a pet peeve of mine that I think sports business media in particular, especially in the United States, is so focused on the NFL, the NBA, Major League Baseball, that to me, that's just the tip of the iceberg of interesting jobs and interesting people who work in sports, and it's not always working for the NFL. And I felt like there were a lot of stories to be told there. And so then it's also just fun.
(19:13):
Course, I want to use it to market my own consulting business, and really, it's just tapping into those relationships, staying relevant, almost having an hour or so every week that you're forced to listen and learn is valuable, definitely.
I think it's one of the greatest ways for me to learn about the industry. Of course, you know, you can read and you can listen, but when you have the opportunity to ask the question that you want to ask, then of course it's easier to get answers to your questions.
(19:45):
It's been a great icebreaker. And I sometimes joke of like, I'm just beginning and it's me and my mom who are listening to it, which a little bit of an exaggeration, but any starting podcast, you have to build. But then you see the long form of the podcast, do a certain number of views, listens, downloads, but then the multiplier of how many people consume the clips on reels and TikTok in particular, you realize that it's the combination of the long form and the short form content that are really the secret sauce, as far as I'm concerned. And so that's fun to learn and dabble, to see what worked and see what resonates.
(20:34):
Yeah, I agree. Mentorship is something that we talk about or I talk about on this podcast. Is that something that you have had the opportunity to either have a mentor or to be mentor for someone else?
You know, on the receiving end, you. Everybody looks back in their career at pivotal people who, you know, during the course of their career, and everything from a youth coach to my first boss at the University of Arkansas, who really gave me so much more valuable experience to complement the education side of school. And then at USA Swimming, my boss for 13 years there, very formative people who I really listened to. Even today, he's a colleague and a co founder of Bat around Clint Hurdle, former baseball player and manager. I just consume all of his content and really listen to him. He's just got a lot. He has a lot to give and share and say, and so I try to pay it forward I make a special effort to hire interns every semester that work in my business. Sometimes one, sometimes a few.
(21:57):
I do my best to try to answer people's questions, whether it be on TikTok or email. I try to live up to my word of encouraging people to do informational interviews and carving out ten or 15 minutes when you're driving somewhere to talk to a student at a school you've never heard of. I try. I'm not perfect at it, but, you know, if you're going to talk the talk about, you know, giving advice on working in sports, then I try to live up to it and be accessible and be responsive.
(22:34):
So, I mean, of course, time is limited, and you cannot answer everything, but as you said, like, trying to, you know, give these 15 minutes here and there, I think that's valuable for the people on the receiving end as well.
Well, I think so. And one of my. I'm definitely sounding like the old man here, but another pet peeve of mine, which I think is awful, especially in the sports space, is the concept of ghosting people when they apply for jobs or they reach out. I've just always treated people like they're adults, and they can take the word no. They don't like it. But I would rather have somebody tell me no than just be completely ghosted. And so I try to respond to all those notes, and if I don't have time, I'll just tell people I don't have time. Ping me again in a month. And the person who actually does that, I'm like, I respect it, and I'm like, okay, let's try this. But it just gives me too much anxiety to go unresponsive to people. You got to respond.
(23:35):
Yeah. And of course, if, you know, you mentioned Kardashians before, if you get, like, millions and millions of questions, maybe that's not possible. But, you know, as you said, for some sports professional, I definitely agree with you. And for me, when I reach out trying to get the people on the podcast, as you said, sometimes they said, now I don't have time. Ping me in June, and then you put a reminder in your calendar, and then you reach out in June, or they say, no, and then you respect that. But of course, some people ghost as well. But on the flip end of that, from the person asking, I think you shouldn't be discouraged, because what's the worst thing? Even if they don't answer where they say no doesn't really harm you in any way, so, you know, do it anyway.
(24:18):
And at some point, someone will say.
Yes, you're dead on. You know, we refer to it like in sponsorship language, and forgive the baseball reference here, but, you know, when you're pitching sponsorships or trying to make, you know, do revenue ticket sales, hospitality packages, we say in baseball terms, if you get two out of ten, you're batting 200. And in sponsorship, you know, that doesn't get you in the hall of Fame baseball, but batting 150 or batting 200 in sponsorship sales, that puts you in the hall of fame. And at some point you just have to make enough calls and enough tries. The yeses will come and you brush off the noS. And as you build up more credibility, maybe your batting average goes up in terms of podcast guests or sponsorship, what have you. But sometimes you just got to just keep plugging away at it.
(25:14):
So something that I think that younger people worry about is what type of educational path they need to take if they want a job in sports. And do you have to study sports management or should you study something else? I mean, you studied broadcast journalism, if I'm not mistaken, right?
Yes.
Not all roads lead to Rome, but many of them at least. So what would be your advice when it comes to what should you study if someone is thinking along those terms?
(25:42):
So you're trying to get me in trouble with the trolls on TikTok, but I have really two pretty strong opinions on this one. In the moms of the world just hate me for this one is that I don't think your grade point average is ever going to get asked to you again. It's not that relevant of a number. Mom hates me for saying that because she's the only one who cares. But second, sport management is a great path. But I don't think it's defined by your major at all, what your path is, and whether it's finance, whether it's history or world literature, there's still a path for you in sports. I think your career is more defined by the jobs you do while you're an undergraduate in school and the internship or internships that you do in school.
(26:43):
That network is really going to drive your future more so than what's printed on a diploma, in my opinion.
So to do internships during the studies as well?
Yes. I tell people that it's hard and sports is a competitive business and we all want to get paid. Fortunately, I think the sports world is a little bit better. Not great about paying internships, but you might watch your friend make more money tending bar during college. But if you're able to weather the storm of lower cost pay for experience within your industry while you're in college or while you're in university, it will.
(27:31):
Pay off because that's usually the joke, is that they ask for four years of experience, work experience, and you just graduated, so how you're gonna get that? But as you said, doing some internships during your studies, then actually you have something to show that you have some experience whenever the graduation day comes.
(27:51):
That's exactly right. And this is a whole nother topic. But then you start to see the challenges that people who compete as athletes through college, through their early twenties, and then they start to come out into the sports world, like, say, at 23 years old, and somebody like me, who had less athletic talent already has three, four years of experience on them working in the sports world. So it's a double edged sword, but it's harder for some athletes at times, but they bring a different level of experience. But getting experience while you're in school is critical in my mind, and almost required.
(28:34):
You mentioned networking as well. What would be your best networking tips?
Well, I'll give it some context. We've established my age, Marcus. I'm 55. I've sent my resume and applied and got one job in my career. Any move I've made has been through relationships and networking. That doesn't mean jobs were given to me. That doesn't mean that I was just handed anything. I had to work for it. But so few of your jobs are going to be submitting on LinkedIn and getting a response and getting that job. It's just going to be rare. So my number one tip is usually the informational interview. And the informational interview for those who don't know is, Marcus, I like your experience. I want to meet you. I think you'd be important to my career. I call up or I write to you and say, would you be open to an informational interview, Marcus, 15 minutes.
(29:36):
I'd like to just ask you about your career path, your journey, and a couple things happen. One is most of us love to talk about ourselves, and so if somebody asks us for that, we tend to oblige with time. The second on the job seeker side is really respect that. The purpose of that informational interview is to ask them about them. It's not your pitch. And just hear them out. Listen, ask them questions about their career, then follow up after that with maybe an ask a month later. Hey, I saw this job in your company. Can you get me in the right hands? But that's just about developing touch points and developing that network and establishing a relationship with someone who can be influential to your career. When you don't need something from them, when you need something from them, the dynamic changes.
(30:34):
And so I like to tell people, use that internship time to meet as many people as you want or as you can and utilize that when you don't need something to establish a more authentic relationship that you can come back to later.
That's a good one. When would be a time when you don't need something?
(30:57):
It's a practice that I tend to use even today where there might be a big brand in baseball or pickleball or whatever that I want to do business with. I don't have anything specifically for them today, but I want to stay in touch. So the steps might be, hey, would love to just grab coffee, grab ten minutes and say hello, and then follow up is certainly LinkedIn. Then I might see an article from their business or their industry that I think is interesting and ill shoot that to them and ill just say, hey, I saw you quoted in advertising age. It was really great or whatever.
(31:41):
In just almost, it sounds contrived, but almost manufacturer touch points that are very short and that just solicit responses, even if it's just a quick thank you that they've seen your name on their email, on their LinkedIn, maybe social media. And then when you come in for a larger ask, there feels like there's a more of a history of a relationship in contact there.
(32:12):
I like that. I try to, I can definitely better at it, but I try to, you know, after someone has been on the podcast to do that to, you know, shoot them an email, like some months later, ask, how's things going? Or if you saw something that they said and so forth. But good tip. I like it. I need to implement it more myself.
We all do. But, you know, hey, do you have a job for me? A month later, hey, do you have a job for me? You got maybe two of those and then you're done. You've cooked the relationship.
(32:41):
Yeah, that's true. How did your interest for sport start from the beginning? As a young boy, I grew up.
In a small town, about 20,000 people in Pittsburgh, Kansas, just in the middle of the United States. And it was just a sports culture town. So I did every sport I tried to, what they call walk on the university baseball team at Arkansas and longer story for another day, didn't make it, got cut, which was the best thing to ever happen to me. Marcus. And then as a 19 year old. I'm sitting there looking around going, my whole life has been sports, and now it's over for me. What do I do? And that led to a job working in the athletic department while I was in school at Arkansas. And that really just served as the, your playing days are done. Kick you in the butt and go try to find out something else. But I didn't seek out a career in sports.
(33:40):
It just somewhat happened one day when I was standing with my glove and a ball and no game to play and figuring out what I'm going to do.
It's interesting that a lot of people say that when there was a real, like, you know, backlash or bump on the road, that later on you think that was one of the best things that could have happened. But in that moment, it feels like your life is over.
(34:02):
You're exactly right. The longer story is I knew my family, knew the baseball coach at Arkansas growing up, so he knew me. And I went back and told him this story 25 years later that he pulled me aside and said, matt, we know your family. I know you. I'm willing to let you stay on the team as a walk on, but normally this is the time that we would cut you. And somehow I had a moment of enlightenment and said, I don't really want to accept it under those terms. And I wrote him back 25 years later to tell him the story of, like, best thing you could have ever done for me. And he was very appreciative. Very appreciative.
(34:47):
And you didn't need anything. You used to reached out.
I occasionally try to practice when I preach, but, yes, that's funny.
Your family is also sporty. If I did my research correctly, your wife is an olympian, and both your daughters are doing sports as well.
So my wife is a 1984 Olympic silver medalist in gymnastics, which is, this year is the 40th anniversary of her team in 84 Los Angeles. And so we'll go to the gymnastics Olympic trials and celebrate that later this summer. My oldest daughter is a wheelchair basketball player. She played at the University of Illinois and made one team USA team for an event down in Sao Paulo. And my youngest, still active in sports, she's chosen much more of a path of art and music after she got to college, and so she starts singing and playing guitar on TikTok a little bit as well. So we can compare notes. But, yeah, sports has just really been just strongly integrated in everything we do as a family.
(36:01):
That's nice. You're comparing with your daughter now who gets the most views on the TikTok and competing there.
She's more talented than I am, so I like her long term success a little bit better than mine. I have a short term advantage on followers, but she'll blow that away.
(36:24):
You mentioned they're getting cut, but has there been any other bumps on the road in your career? And if so, how did you overcome them?
Probably two key ones and one we talked about a little bit is you find yourself sitting at home during COVID of what do I do with my career? And this is not a woe is me, but you're in your fifties, and how am I going to get hired and how am I going to reinvent? And so that obviously led to the creation of this business. Along the way, it was seeing opportunities, whether it be the digital entertainment sponsorship. But I would say that USA swimming in particular went through a very rough period, like some other youth sports, where you were dealing with really heavy issues of sexual misconduct and that became part of your life. Not to make this about me, because the hurt that is done by that topic is immense.
(37:39):
And when you're on the other side of it, of trying to do better as an organization, but knowing you have been imperfect as an organization, those are hard times to fight through and deal with. And they get to you of like, I think I'm doing the right thing. Maybe the media and other people don't always think we're doing the right thing. And so those are some challenging times to get through on a very important and heavy and life altering topic.
(38:17):
Yeah, I can only imagine how that is like as well. And how did you deal with that as an organization? You needed to look inwards and see how can we change. How was that process?
I think you described it well. Where you a try to look, where can we better? Your first reaction is always to be defensive, well, we did this, we did this. And then you realize, well, maybe that's not enough. And so then you also have to think through and make decisions of, okay, this path might best for this one particular case, but we have to make a decision that is consistent across 400,000 members of an organization. So it just gets complex of pr and legal are at odds at times. And so I would say learning to deal with the complexity of a topic like that and how you make decisions, we didn't always make the right ones. In fact, we probably screwed up our own share of the time.
(39:36):
But I can say sitting in that room, you were always trying to do the right thing, but without a blueprint, maybe you didn't always do that.
Of course. No one is perfect. But as you said, I think the important piece is that you want to do better and that when something goes wrong that you try to change and do better next time.
(39:57):
Yeah, you try. And that was just a really rough time for people, especially who were hurt by the topic and all involved and you try to come out of it better on the other side of how to make the future better.
So you have already given a lot of great advice, but is there any other good advice that you would give a young person with aspirations to work in sports?
(40:23):
Oh, I think I've given my best stuff. It's so situational sometimes. I think its about the network and the experience that im going to almost come back to those in that same example that I gave Marcus of the likelihood of your career being shaped by dropping your hat into LinkedIn or indeed is remote. And so its those relationships that I really keep coming back to. Everything else is just a. A spin off of that one topic. Really?
(40:59):
Yeah. And on the topic of networking, I like to end the episodes with a networking question. So who from your network do you think would be a good guest on this podcast?
Oh, that's good. You put me on the record for this one as well. You know, I think I'm going to go back to my roots in terms of we're weeks ahead of Paris and the 2024 Olympic Games and Paralympic Games in Paris. And so I also am just a huge believer in national governing bodies. And somehow, and many times they get lost in the world of marketing opportunities from, you know, people understand the IOC level, people understand the US Olympic and Paralympic Committee level or the Swedish Olympic Committee level, and they understand the athlete level. And sometimes the national governing body level in between is missed. And a gentleman who happens to live here in Colorado Springs, Ramsey Baker, is one of those people who really get that world and I think he'd be an awesome guest.
(42:12):
That's awesome. I will write that down. So I keep it. Anything else that you want to mention before we sign off?
I would just say a topic we didnt get today is the massive growth of pickleball in the United States, which is off the charts crazy. But the sport im really interested to follow to see what happens in the United States is actually cricket. And so cricket does not really have much of an attraction here in the United States yet. In fact, some of the business industry publications don't even track cricket participation yet. But with the t 20 World cup here partially here this month and next month, that's a sport that I'm bullish on, that can expand and do well in the United States, that is really just a seed waiting to grow in my mind.
(43:16):
Yeah, for sure. I mean, the global fandom of that sport is huge. So the 330 million in us, that's the next step to grow that sport, I think.
Look at my lifetime. When I grew up, mainly in the 1970s, soccer, football was not an option. I lived in a small town. And so just really in the span of my lifetime and generation, 40, 50 years, look at where soccer not being even an option to where it is today in the United States, and it still pales in comparison to Europe and the rest of the world. But I think cricket is a sport that has that type of an opportunity. It will probably be in the lifetime generation after me. But you just look at what's happening in the world in some of these sports and how that impacts the United States, and that's what I'm excited about.
(44:10):
Yeah, definitely. I haven't had pickleball. I have covered very slightly, I would say cricket, but definitely that could be two topics as well for the future.
On this podcast, we can talk Pickleball a lot, but I love it for a lot of different reasons.
Maybe we need to do a part two of this one where we just focus on the pickleball business.
(44:32):
It is a phenomenon in the United States. So absolutely, I'm here for it.
Awesome. Matt Ferrell, thank you so much for taking the time to be on sports management podcast.
Marcus, thank you. It was a pleasure.
Thank you for listening to the sports management podcast. Please hit the subscribe button so you don't miss out on any upcoming episodes. Also, feel free to leave a comment about what you thought about this episode. If you want to get in contact with me, send an email to sportsmpodcastmail.com or hit me up on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram at sportsmpodcast.
Welcome to Sports Management podcast where you will hear interesting sports management professionals share their stories, experiences and passion for the sports management industry. I am your host, Marcus Philipson. Welcome to episode 153 of Sports Management podcast. If you have ever learned anything from this show, please show your gratitude by subscribing to the podcast in your podcast app. And if you feel extra generous, leave a five star review. This will help the show grow and the bigger the show, the bigger the guests. Thank you. Today's guest is Matt Farrell, a sports marketing consultant, founder of Farrell Sports and the CEO of Bat around. Matt is a seasoned sports professional with experiences from US Olympic Committee, USA Swimming and more. Despite being in his mid fifties, he's currently staying up to date on trends in the sports industry and gives back to the younger generation.
(01:01):
Through his TikTok videos and recently launched podcast, we spoke about how he got his first job in sports, why being cut from the baseball team was the best thing that ever happened to him, the importance of internships if GPA is even important, working for USA Swimming during the Michael Phelps era, but also at the time of heavy criticism due to sexual abuse cases. Matt's best advice for young people in sports and much more. Matt Ferrell, welcome to Sports Management podcast.
(01:38):
Thank you Marcus.
It's great to have you on. And for those who might not know who you are the president of Farrell Sports working with several pool clients. You can PBX, pickleball, the US Olympic and Paralympic Committee and many more. So can you talk a little bit about what it is that you do?
(02:01):
Oh great. Thanks Marcus. Yeah. Feral Sports is a small consulting business focused purely on the business side of sports. Anything on the field of play? I don't look at that part at all. So everything is on the business and marketing side. Most notably right now my focus is with a company serving as its CEO of a company called Bat around, which we can certainly talk about more later. Think top golf for baseball, PBX, Pickleball, which is an experiential company where people like you and I can play pickleball with former professional athletes from the NFL, Major League Baseball and then I really have a long history in the Olympic world and so there are a lot of clients that come in for special projects. Usually tend to be more difficult projects.
(02:54):
Everything from the US Olympic Committee, which is now the US Olympic and Paralympic Committee, USA football. I've done projects for USA Pickleball and with my own background with USA Swimming, I've been able to use that to really just help with very specific projects related to marketing, sponsorship, and promoting the brand of those sports. So that's my main world.
(03:17):
That's cool. And as you said, you have worked in the Olympic world and, you know, for 25 or almost 30 years now in, you know, prominent roles in the sport industry. But you started your own company in 2020. So why did you decide to start your own company after working in executive roles in sports?
(03:39):
Well, I stumbled into it by accident in many ways. I left USA swimming in 2018. I went to the Golf channel, and quite honestly, Marcus, I plan to retire there and make that my end of career stop. And Covid and some other factors interrupted that. And like many, I had to reinvent myself. For me, it happened when I was in my early fifties. So here I am at 52 at the time, trying to figure out how to reinvent my career. So not knowing how long the pandemic would last, I created my own company purely to fill a gap on the resume. That was it. And then it started to work.
(04:32):
And through the relationships I had, the network I built, over time, client projects started to come, and it was probably six to nine months into it where I realized, hey, I can actually, this is my tipping point. I can make this work as a standalone consulting business. But that wasn't the long term plan.
(04:54):
I see. So you mentioned battaround, which is also something you're doing currently as the CEO, when you explained it very well that as a top goal for baseball, but I hadn't heard about it. Now, baseball is not huge in Sweden, to be fair, but can you talk a little bit about battaround and what your role is there?
Yeah, my role with Bataround is the CEO, and it is a startup, and we've just started to come out with our, what I'll call our beta project. But really the origin of it came from just a, the growth of mixed reality, b, the growth of gaming and interactivity. And see, baseball, especially in the United States, had a lot of very good technical training products, a lot of great technology out there, but very few had gamified it. And that was our aha moment there. And so visually, maybe think top golf. Visually, you could think of a golf simulator where I'm hitting the ball off of a pitching machine or off of a batting tee and then all the animation plays out on the screen and you and I can play games against each other.
(06:16):
And it's served to be a product that really just enhances and helps break up the monotony of training for existing players. But we're also finding that it's really a fun entertainment product and adults get in there and swing and they almost say the same thing when they walk out, which was another enlightening moment. They usually say something nice about the game of that was fun, that was cool. But then they say, I haven't swung a bat since. And that's when we knew we had something of creating a really fun experience to reengage people with the game and also make it fun for youth players who are avidly involved in the game.
(07:01):
Interesting. It started in 2022. So how has it been received so far?
Yeah, the germ of the idea also came during COVID and so it, you know, like any startup, it has its ups and downs and sometimes it's on the crash cart. And so we're really just starting to release this now. And so we've have our first Major League Baseball deal with the Tampa Bay Rays where the Concourse, the activity on the concourse for the Tampa Bay Rays. Our first MLB team will be at the College World Series for baseball in June in Omaha for the second time. This time we'll be doing it in a partnership with Rawlings and Easton. And I live in Colorado. And so we did a pop up activation with the Colorado Rockies at their fan fest earlier this year and now in about 26 batting cages across the country of releasing the software.
(08:03):
And so we're starting to really just hit that tipping point and that build moment and I'm a little close to it, Marcus, but so far so good.
That's cool. So prior to that, you worked at USA Swimming, as you mentioned, for 13 years. So how's the difference of working for an NGB versus now working for a startup and having your own company?
(08:27):
I'll rewind a little bit. Like coming out of college, I thought working in sports meant college athletics in the us college system or a pro team. So I was really finding the Olympic sports a little bit by accident and an internship was very eye opening. And so in that world, you're working with a sport that has for the most part began in the 1970s from an organizational and governance standpoint and it's still using a very volunteer based structure, a very state by state structure. And so, and it's very youth participation oriented. Most people think USA swimming, they think, oh, the Olympics. What do you do the other three and a half years of your job when youre not dealing with Michael Phelps or Missy Franklin?
(09:24):
And the reality is its a youth sports organization with 400,000 members, 8910 year olds on swim teams across the country. So its a very different take on working in sports. To work in an organization like that where you don't have venues, you don't have a stadium, you don't have a team in your city, it's a national organization, and there's not a right or wrong. It's just different for those people that might typically work at a professional sports team or college and have the stadium be across the street and player there in your city, it's just a different take on working in sports.
(10:03):
What a time, as you mentioned, Michael Phelps there, for example, what a time to work for USA Swimming. During these years, with all the success.
That you had, it was amazing. You really just talk about just go down the line of Michael Phelps, Ryan Lochte, Missy Franklin, Katie Ledecky, Caleb Dressel, and the US swim team winning over 30 medals in most international competitions. So at times, it was an embarrassment of riches, but as a marketer, it's a dream. And sometimes you just get lucky with your timing in life.
(10:43):
Yeah, I can understand that. And again, before that, a lot of work in the Olympic committees. So you said you got into that through an internship. Did I hear that right?
Yes. When I was in college, I applied and got an internship at USA Swimming. And so that was my introduction to the Olympic world. When I finished college, my really, my first year round, full time job was the opportunity to come back to USA swimming in a communications role. And so that's what really opened the door. And then from there, I would love to look back and tell you how smart it was, but it wasn't. It was a little bit of dumb luck. There were a few key milestones that came after that, and some listeners will laugh. One of them was the invention of the Internet, really, during the nineties, when I was starting my career and being smart enough to realize, ooh, that's a path I need to follow.
(11:47):
And then really, in the two thousands, realizing, okay, I was not going to be a web developer. That was not my skill. I need to get on the business side of this, of sponsorship. And so take that internship, and then you find two key pivot points career wise, from there. Really, in hindsight, looking back to it, those were just key decisions along my path.
(12:14):
William, you need some luck as well. But of course, the harder you work, the more luck you get. That was a swedish skier who said that once.
I have a phrase that's not quite as popular, but I just tell people luck needs a place to land, and it's very similar in concept. It's not like I was just sitting in my backyard or messing around. I was working hard and that creates the opportunity. So I believe the skier.
(12:44):
I heard analogy on social media. Someone said, it's like the red cars. If you're going to work and someone asks you how many red cars did you see? Then you will not know. But if you said tomorrow, look for red cars, then you will see a lot of red cars. And that luck works in a similar way. If you look for opportunities, then you will see them more.
(13:04):
William Ive never heard it described that way. I like it. Ive always had a theory as well that sometimes we get accused of falling in love with our own ideas on any job. Thats fair. But the way I always described it is sometimes you see a path based on your own experiences or you see three dots that can be connected. Sometimes it's ego that we fall in love with our ideas, but sometimes we actually see the vision of how these things connect. And so I like your description.
(13:39):
You mentioned the Internet and that hasn't been around. If Gen z listeners now, they will be, they will not understand what you're talking about, that there was such a time when there was no Internet. But what I like, I found you first on TikTok, and I find that really admirable, but also that you are not like the core consumer of this app. But there is a lot of young people who are there and that you, with, you know, 30 plus years of experience in the field is sharing your knowledge on this platform. I think it's really great because that's what I want to do as well on this podcast, to share yours and others stories. But of course, now a lot of people are on TikTok. So how was your decision making going into starting to create content and also more specifically on TikTok?
(14:32):
TikTok has been so much fun and I've learned a lot about it. I started on TikTok again when I was in my early to middle fifties and I felt like an idiot to start. And it really started because I wanted to understand the medium. If I was going to help counsel clients on their strategy, I really wanted to understand the medium. I would say the same. Or when Twitter, when it started, before it became x and even podcasting, which was around and went away and now has come back in a resurgence, I want to understand those mediums, and the best way to do it is to dive in and do it yourself.
(15:20):
With TikTok in particular, you started realizing, no matter how niche your expertise is, and it could be crocheting or ice fishing or whatever it might be, there's an audience in a community on TikTok, and I thought I was going to get made fun of for my age of like, get off this app, old man. And it just didn't happen that way. And there was an audience of people who wanted to work in sports, especially young people in college in their twenties that appreciated it. And then with anything on TikTok, sometimes you're overly punished by the algorithm, sometimes you're overly rewarded by the algorithm. And it just flicked in many ways and just made it fun. There's certainly still trolls out there, but for the most part, it's fulfilled a niche and I don't think I'll ever become a Kardashian in terms of numbers.
(16:29):
But theres clearly an appetite for content out there of people who want to know what its like working in sports and how to get insight into that business.
Thats whats so great about it, right? Since the core consumer on the app is younger, they dont have the same type of experience and knowledge that you do. So someone who comes in and can feed the algorithm with knowledge and maybe where did you go wrong and what did you learn from it and how to act in a job interview. And just so many great, I'm trying to pull from memory here, but there are some things that I've seen from your page, but that you now can share with them. And of course there will always be trolls, but I'm sure that there are so many people that take great value from it as well.
(17:17):
Well, I hope so. That's been the fun of it. If there's one common lesson learned about starting my own business, starting my TikTok, we'll see about the podcasting piece is, I think sometimes we feel like we want to appeal to the masses with anything that we do from content perspective or marketing, or how we position our product or our business. And I've found it to be the exact opposite, really. Just narrowly focus on your core expertise. And while that may be a small slice of the overall pie, you're better served with specific expertise. And that's how clients come. That's how followers come versus trying to be a generalist.
(18:08):
You mentioned the podcast and you're up. Depending on when this is released, you're probably around five episodes. Four so far. You said you maybe there is one in the bank. So why did you decide to start the podcast?
You know, probably for similar reasons. A. I mean, I feel like I have used my career to create a lot of great relationships and people who have great stories to tell and honestly, there's a little bit of a pet peeve of mine that I think sports business media in particular, especially in the United States, is so focused on the NFL, the NBA, Major League Baseball, that to me, that's just the tip of the iceberg of interesting jobs and interesting people who work in sports, and it's not always working for the NFL. And I felt like there were a lot of stories to be told there. And so then it's also just fun.
(19:13):
Course, I want to use it to market my own consulting business, and really, it's just tapping into those relationships, staying relevant, almost having an hour or so every week that you're forced to listen and learn is valuable, definitely.
I think it's one of the greatest ways for me to learn about the industry. Of course, you know, you can read and you can listen, but when you have the opportunity to ask the question that you want to ask, then of course it's easier to get answers to your questions.
(19:45):
It's been a great icebreaker. And I sometimes joke of like, I'm just beginning and it's me and my mom who are listening to it, which a little bit of an exaggeration, but any starting podcast, you have to build. But then you see the long form of the podcast, do a certain number of views, listens, downloads, but then the multiplier of how many people consume the clips on reels and TikTok in particular, you realize that it's the combination of the long form and the short form content that are really the secret sauce, as far as I'm concerned. And so that's fun to learn and dabble, to see what worked and see what resonates.
(20:34):
Yeah, I agree. Mentorship is something that we talk about or I talk about on this podcast. Is that something that you have had the opportunity to either have a mentor or to be mentor for someone else?
You know, on the receiving end, you. Everybody looks back in their career at pivotal people who, you know, during the course of their career, and everything from a youth coach to my first boss at the University of Arkansas, who really gave me so much more valuable experience to complement the education side of school. And then at USA Swimming, my boss for 13 years there, very formative people who I really listened to. Even today, he's a colleague and a co founder of Bat around Clint Hurdle, former baseball player and manager. I just consume all of his content and really listen to him. He's just got a lot. He has a lot to give and share and say, and so I try to pay it forward I make a special effort to hire interns every semester that work in my business. Sometimes one, sometimes a few.
(21:57):
I do my best to try to answer people's questions, whether it be on TikTok or email. I try to live up to my word of encouraging people to do informational interviews and carving out ten or 15 minutes when you're driving somewhere to talk to a student at a school you've never heard of. I try. I'm not perfect at it, but, you know, if you're going to talk the talk about, you know, giving advice on working in sports, then I try to live up to it and be accessible and be responsive.
(22:34):
So, I mean, of course, time is limited, and you cannot answer everything, but as you said, like, trying to, you know, give these 15 minutes here and there, I think that's valuable for the people on the receiving end as well.
Well, I think so. And one of my. I'm definitely sounding like the old man here, but another pet peeve of mine, which I think is awful, especially in the sports space, is the concept of ghosting people when they apply for jobs or they reach out. I've just always treated people like they're adults, and they can take the word no. They don't like it. But I would rather have somebody tell me no than just be completely ghosted. And so I try to respond to all those notes, and if I don't have time, I'll just tell people I don't have time. Ping me again in a month. And the person who actually does that, I'm like, I respect it, and I'm like, okay, let's try this. But it just gives me too much anxiety to go unresponsive to people. You got to respond.
(23:35):
Yeah. And of course, if, you know, you mentioned Kardashians before, if you get, like, millions and millions of questions, maybe that's not possible. But, you know, as you said, for some sports professional, I definitely agree with you. And for me, when I reach out trying to get the people on the podcast, as you said, sometimes they said, now I don't have time. Ping me in June, and then you put a reminder in your calendar, and then you reach out in June, or they say, no, and then you respect that. But of course, some people ghost as well. But on the flip end of that, from the person asking, I think you shouldn't be discouraged, because what's the worst thing? Even if they don't answer where they say no doesn't really harm you in any way, so, you know, do it anyway.
(24:18):
And at some point, someone will say.
Yes, you're dead on. You know, we refer to it like in sponsorship language, and forgive the baseball reference here, but, you know, when you're pitching sponsorships or trying to make, you know, do revenue ticket sales, hospitality packages, we say in baseball terms, if you get two out of ten, you're batting 200. And in sponsorship, you know, that doesn't get you in the hall of Fame baseball, but batting 150 or batting 200 in sponsorship sales, that puts you in the hall of fame. And at some point you just have to make enough calls and enough tries. The yeses will come and you brush off the noS. And as you build up more credibility, maybe your batting average goes up in terms of podcast guests or sponsorship, what have you. But sometimes you just got to just keep plugging away at it.
(25:14):
So something that I think that younger people worry about is what type of educational path they need to take if they want a job in sports. And do you have to study sports management or should you study something else? I mean, you studied broadcast journalism, if I'm not mistaken, right?
Yes.
Not all roads lead to Rome, but many of them at least. So what would be your advice when it comes to what should you study if someone is thinking along those terms?
(25:42):
So you're trying to get me in trouble with the trolls on TikTok, but I have really two pretty strong opinions on this one. In the moms of the world just hate me for this one is that I don't think your grade point average is ever going to get asked to you again. It's not that relevant of a number. Mom hates me for saying that because she's the only one who cares. But second, sport management is a great path. But I don't think it's defined by your major at all, what your path is, and whether it's finance, whether it's history or world literature, there's still a path for you in sports. I think your career is more defined by the jobs you do while you're an undergraduate in school and the internship or internships that you do in school.
(26:43):
That network is really going to drive your future more so than what's printed on a diploma, in my opinion.
So to do internships during the studies as well?
Yes. I tell people that it's hard and sports is a competitive business and we all want to get paid. Fortunately, I think the sports world is a little bit better. Not great about paying internships, but you might watch your friend make more money tending bar during college. But if you're able to weather the storm of lower cost pay for experience within your industry while you're in college or while you're in university, it will.
(27:31):
Pay off because that's usually the joke, is that they ask for four years of experience, work experience, and you just graduated, so how you're gonna get that? But as you said, doing some internships during your studies, then actually you have something to show that you have some experience whenever the graduation day comes.
(27:51):
That's exactly right. And this is a whole nother topic. But then you start to see the challenges that people who compete as athletes through college, through their early twenties, and then they start to come out into the sports world, like, say, at 23 years old, and somebody like me, who had less athletic talent already has three, four years of experience on them working in the sports world. So it's a double edged sword, but it's harder for some athletes at times, but they bring a different level of experience. But getting experience while you're in school is critical in my mind, and almost required.
(28:34):
You mentioned networking as well. What would be your best networking tips?
Well, I'll give it some context. We've established my age, Marcus. I'm 55. I've sent my resume and applied and got one job in my career. Any move I've made has been through relationships and networking. That doesn't mean jobs were given to me. That doesn't mean that I was just handed anything. I had to work for it. But so few of your jobs are going to be submitting on LinkedIn and getting a response and getting that job. It's just going to be rare. So my number one tip is usually the informational interview. And the informational interview for those who don't know is, Marcus, I like your experience. I want to meet you. I think you'd be important to my career. I call up or I write to you and say, would you be open to an informational interview, Marcus, 15 minutes.
(29:36):
I'd like to just ask you about your career path, your journey, and a couple things happen. One is most of us love to talk about ourselves, and so if somebody asks us for that, we tend to oblige with time. The second on the job seeker side is really respect that. The purpose of that informational interview is to ask them about them. It's not your pitch. And just hear them out. Listen, ask them questions about their career, then follow up after that with maybe an ask a month later. Hey, I saw this job in your company. Can you get me in the right hands? But that's just about developing touch points and developing that network and establishing a relationship with someone who can be influential to your career. When you don't need something from them, when you need something from them, the dynamic changes.
(30:34):
And so I like to tell people, use that internship time to meet as many people as you want or as you can and utilize that when you don't need something to establish a more authentic relationship that you can come back to later.
That's a good one. When would be a time when you don't need something?
(30:57):
It's a practice that I tend to use even today where there might be a big brand in baseball or pickleball or whatever that I want to do business with. I don't have anything specifically for them today, but I want to stay in touch. So the steps might be, hey, would love to just grab coffee, grab ten minutes and say hello, and then follow up is certainly LinkedIn. Then I might see an article from their business or their industry that I think is interesting and ill shoot that to them and ill just say, hey, I saw you quoted in advertising age. It was really great or whatever.
(31:41):
In just almost, it sounds contrived, but almost manufacturer touch points that are very short and that just solicit responses, even if it's just a quick thank you that they've seen your name on their email, on their LinkedIn, maybe social media. And then when you come in for a larger ask, there feels like there's a more of a history of a relationship in contact there.
(32:12):
I like that. I try to, I can definitely better at it, but I try to, you know, after someone has been on the podcast to do that to, you know, shoot them an email, like some months later, ask, how's things going? Or if you saw something that they said and so forth. But good tip. I like it. I need to implement it more myself.
We all do. But, you know, hey, do you have a job for me? A month later, hey, do you have a job for me? You got maybe two of those and then you're done. You've cooked the relationship.
(32:41):
Yeah, that's true. How did your interest for sport start from the beginning? As a young boy, I grew up.
In a small town, about 20,000 people in Pittsburgh, Kansas, just in the middle of the United States. And it was just a sports culture town. So I did every sport I tried to, what they call walk on the university baseball team at Arkansas and longer story for another day, didn't make it, got cut, which was the best thing to ever happen to me. Marcus. And then as a 19 year old. I'm sitting there looking around going, my whole life has been sports, and now it's over for me. What do I do? And that led to a job working in the athletic department while I was in school at Arkansas. And that really just served as the, your playing days are done. Kick you in the butt and go try to find out something else. But I didn't seek out a career in sports.
(33:40):
It just somewhat happened one day when I was standing with my glove and a ball and no game to play and figuring out what I'm going to do.
It's interesting that a lot of people say that when there was a real, like, you know, backlash or bump on the road, that later on you think that was one of the best things that could have happened. But in that moment, it feels like your life is over.
(34:02):
You're exactly right. The longer story is I knew my family, knew the baseball coach at Arkansas growing up, so he knew me. And I went back and told him this story 25 years later that he pulled me aside and said, matt, we know your family. I know you. I'm willing to let you stay on the team as a walk on, but normally this is the time that we would cut you. And somehow I had a moment of enlightenment and said, I don't really want to accept it under those terms. And I wrote him back 25 years later to tell him the story of, like, best thing you could have ever done for me. And he was very appreciative. Very appreciative.
(34:47):
And you didn't need anything. You used to reached out.
I occasionally try to practice when I preach, but, yes, that's funny.
Your family is also sporty. If I did my research correctly, your wife is an olympian, and both your daughters are doing sports as well.
So my wife is a 1984 Olympic silver medalist in gymnastics, which is, this year is the 40th anniversary of her team in 84 Los Angeles. And so we'll go to the gymnastics Olympic trials and celebrate that later this summer. My oldest daughter is a wheelchair basketball player. She played at the University of Illinois and made one team USA team for an event down in Sao Paulo. And my youngest, still active in sports, she's chosen much more of a path of art and music after she got to college, and so she starts singing and playing guitar on TikTok a little bit as well. So we can compare notes. But, yeah, sports has just really been just strongly integrated in everything we do as a family.
(36:01):
That's nice. You're comparing with your daughter now who gets the most views on the TikTok and competing there.
She's more talented than I am, so I like her long term success a little bit better than mine. I have a short term advantage on followers, but she'll blow that away.
(36:24):
You mentioned they're getting cut, but has there been any other bumps on the road in your career? And if so, how did you overcome them?
Probably two key ones and one we talked about a little bit is you find yourself sitting at home during COVID of what do I do with my career? And this is not a woe is me, but you're in your fifties, and how am I going to get hired and how am I going to reinvent? And so that obviously led to the creation of this business. Along the way, it was seeing opportunities, whether it be the digital entertainment sponsorship. But I would say that USA swimming in particular went through a very rough period, like some other youth sports, where you were dealing with really heavy issues of sexual misconduct and that became part of your life. Not to make this about me, because the hurt that is done by that topic is immense.
(37:39):
And when you're on the other side of it, of trying to do better as an organization, but knowing you have been imperfect as an organization, those are hard times to fight through and deal with. And they get to you of like, I think I'm doing the right thing. Maybe the media and other people don't always think we're doing the right thing. And so those are some challenging times to get through on a very important and heavy and life altering topic.
(38:17):
Yeah, I can only imagine how that is like as well. And how did you deal with that as an organization? You needed to look inwards and see how can we change. How was that process?
I think you described it well. Where you a try to look, where can we better? Your first reaction is always to be defensive, well, we did this, we did this. And then you realize, well, maybe that's not enough. And so then you also have to think through and make decisions of, okay, this path might best for this one particular case, but we have to make a decision that is consistent across 400,000 members of an organization. So it just gets complex of pr and legal are at odds at times. And so I would say learning to deal with the complexity of a topic like that and how you make decisions, we didn't always make the right ones. In fact, we probably screwed up our own share of the time.
(39:36):
But I can say sitting in that room, you were always trying to do the right thing, but without a blueprint, maybe you didn't always do that.
Of course. No one is perfect. But as you said, I think the important piece is that you want to do better and that when something goes wrong that you try to change and do better next time.
(39:57):
Yeah, you try. And that was just a really rough time for people, especially who were hurt by the topic and all involved and you try to come out of it better on the other side of how to make the future better.
So you have already given a lot of great advice, but is there any other good advice that you would give a young person with aspirations to work in sports?
(40:23):
Oh, I think I've given my best stuff. It's so situational sometimes. I think its about the network and the experience that im going to almost come back to those in that same example that I gave Marcus of the likelihood of your career being shaped by dropping your hat into LinkedIn or indeed is remote. And so its those relationships that I really keep coming back to. Everything else is just a. A spin off of that one topic. Really?
(40:59):
Yeah. And on the topic of networking, I like to end the episodes with a networking question. So who from your network do you think would be a good guest on this podcast?
Oh, that's good. You put me on the record for this one as well. You know, I think I'm going to go back to my roots in terms of we're weeks ahead of Paris and the 2024 Olympic Games and Paralympic Games in Paris. And so I also am just a huge believer in national governing bodies. And somehow, and many times they get lost in the world of marketing opportunities from, you know, people understand the IOC level, people understand the US Olympic and Paralympic Committee level or the Swedish Olympic Committee level, and they understand the athlete level. And sometimes the national governing body level in between is missed. And a gentleman who happens to live here in Colorado Springs, Ramsey Baker, is one of those people who really get that world and I think he'd be an awesome guest.
(42:12):
That's awesome. I will write that down. So I keep it. Anything else that you want to mention before we sign off?
I would just say a topic we didnt get today is the massive growth of pickleball in the United States, which is off the charts crazy. But the sport im really interested to follow to see what happens in the United States is actually cricket. And so cricket does not really have much of an attraction here in the United States yet. In fact, some of the business industry publications don't even track cricket participation yet. But with the t 20 World cup here partially here this month and next month, that's a sport that I'm bullish on, that can expand and do well in the United States, that is really just a seed waiting to grow in my mind.
(43:16):
Yeah, for sure. I mean, the global fandom of that sport is huge. So the 330 million in us, that's the next step to grow that sport, I think.
Look at my lifetime. When I grew up, mainly in the 1970s, soccer, football was not an option. I lived in a small town. And so just really in the span of my lifetime and generation, 40, 50 years, look at where soccer not being even an option to where it is today in the United States, and it still pales in comparison to Europe and the rest of the world. But I think cricket is a sport that has that type of an opportunity. It will probably be in the lifetime generation after me. But you just look at what's happening in the world in some of these sports and how that impacts the United States, and that's what I'm excited about.
(44:10):
Yeah, definitely. I haven't had pickleball. I have covered very slightly, I would say cricket, but definitely that could be two topics as well for the future.
On this podcast, we can talk Pickleball a lot, but I love it for a lot of different reasons.
Maybe we need to do a part two of this one where we just focus on the pickleball business.
(44:32):
It is a phenomenon in the United States. So absolutely, I'm here for it.
Awesome. Matt Ferrell, thank you so much for taking the time to be on sports management podcast.
Marcus, thank you. It was a pleasure.
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