May 22, 2024 • 62 mins
In this episode, Stop & Talk host Grant Oliphant talks with Ramel Wallace, a multifaceted artist, activist, and community builder deeply embedded in the San Diego creative scene. Ramel's journey, rooted in hip-hop storytelling and community engagement, provides a unique lens into the city's history, culture, and social dynamics.
Ramel discusses his viral "We’re San Diegans" video series, which humorously and poignantly captures the essence of San Diego life, touching on local pride, cultural diversity, the city's social issues, and of course, tacos. He also shares his perspective on the significant yet often overlooked impact of redlining and gentrification, which he is exploring through his Far South/Border North campaign.
The conversation delves into Ramel's role as the host of CreativeMornings San Diego, his dedication to fostering creativity and care, and his commitment to cultural preservation through initiatives like "The Last Black Man in Barrio Logan." Through his work, Ramel emphasizes the importance of intimate community connections and the powerful role of creativity in addressing societal issues.
Tune in to hear how Ramel's artistry and activism are shaping San Diego's future, how creativity and care are intertwined, and discover the profound ways in which art can be a catalyst for social change.
Credits:
This is a production of the Prebys Foundation.
Hosted by Grant Oliphant
Co-Hosted by Crystal Page
Co-produced by Crystal Page and Adam Greenfield
Engineered by Adam Greenfield
Production Assistance by Tess Karesky
The Stop & Talk Theme song was created by San Diego’s own Mr. Lyrical Groove.
Recorded at the Voice of San Diego Podcast Studio
Download episodes at your favorite podcatcher or visit us at StopAndTalkPodcast.org
If you like this show, and we hope you do, the best way to support this show is to share, subscribe, and review our podcast. Thank you for your support, ideas, and listening.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Crystal Page (00:11):
Hey, Grant.
Grant Oliphant (00:12):
Hey, Crystal.
Crystal Page (00:13):
Do you wanna do a meme or a meme as my grandma
calls them?
Grant Oliphant (00:17):
I I love that. Yes. Let's do that.
Crystal Page (00:19):
Okay. We are San Diegans. We say we're not
worried, but we totally are.
Grant Oliphant (00:27):
Oh, okay. I love this game. We are San Diegans,
so of course, we say we want itto rain and then we complain
when it does.
Crystal Page (00:37):
Exactly. We are San Diegans. We say we love the
Padres, but we don't actuallyfollow the games.
Grant Oliphant (00:49):
We are San Diegans, so, of course, we love
the Padres, and we love the sunmore.
Crystal Page (00:56):
True. I think you're gonna win because I can't
come out anymore. So so
Grant Oliphant (01:00):
I'm not gonna win. It's easier when I'm in
response mode, but, you know,we're we're interviewing
somebody today who knows allabout this because he came up
with, the we are San Diegansmeme and, is one of the defining
people in San Diego. In fact, weshould do that one. We are San
(01:22):
Diegans, so, of course, weinterview
Crystal Page (01:26):
Ramel Wallace.
Grant Oliphant (01:27):
Alright. Well done. Yes. Okay. I love it.
So Ramel is an artist, activist,and community builder with deep
roots in San Diego. You mightrecognize him from his hip hop
storytelling or his role as thehost of Creative Mornings in San
Diego or from his video, WhereSan Diegans, which went viral on
(01:48):
Instagram. I don't think that'shappening with our versions of
that, but maybe. You never know.
Crystal Page (01:52):
I, if it doesn't happen, I'm gonna blame our
production assistant Tess.Because that just means we gotta
go viral.
Grant Oliphant (02:00):
Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. As a 4th
generation San Diegan, Ramel hasa deep passion for the city and
particularly the local creativecommunity. In a recent op ed in
the San Diego Union Tribune, hediscussed San Diego's creative
economy, touting Creative'seconomic impact, and their
growing diversity, and thechallenges that they face here,
(02:20):
particularly with the risingcost of living.
Ramel is also a grantee of FarSouth Border North, a city tied
regional collaborative thePrebys Foundation is a part of
that supports artists andcultural practitioners in
creating public awarenesscampaigns. His campaign, the
last black man in Barrio Logan,looks at Barrio Logan's rich
(02:43):
history rolling into the SouthBay, its current challenges, and
the significance of culturalpreservation. This is a this is
gonna be a fun interview.
Crystal Page (02:53):
And, you know, I've heard of Ramel for years.
We're really lucky that, ourengineer, Adam, has a connection
to Ramel, and he's like, yougotta check out this guy. And
personally, Grant, I've alwayswanted to go to creative
mornings, but it's in themorning, and I'm not a morning
person. Have you been?
Grant Oliphant (03:08):
I I have been to creative mornings in Pittsburgh,
but not in San Diego. And SanDiego has one of the largest
chapters in the world as we'llbe talking about.
Crystal Page (03:16):
Yeah. And I'm excited to hear your
conversation with Ramel becauseI feel like those who are in the
know about culture and arts hereare really in the know, but the
rest of us may not be as pluggedin. So I'm excited to see where
you take us on this.
Grant Oliphant (03:29):
Well and he it's partly where he'll take us. One
of the joys of interviewingsomebody like Ramel is he's got
creativity baked in, and heapproaches all of his work with
a creative bent. And, and I Ithink one of the one of the
reasons we really wanted to talkwith him was, aside from our
(03:50):
engineer Adam's connection, isthat this is a person who's
really looking at San Diego'sfuture through an arts and
creativity and diversity andfuturist lens that I think is
important to the future of thiscommunity. So I'm I'm looking
forward to talking to Ramelabout the things that we'll
(04:11):
touch on.
Crystal Page (04:12):
Yeah. Good luck in the interview. I'll see you
after.
Grant Oliphant (04:13):
Thank you. We'll talk afterwards. All Alright.
Ramel Wallace, I'm so delightedto have you on the program.
Thank you for being here.
Ramel Wallace (04:24):
Thank you for allowing me to be here. It's
it's fun to talk aboutcreativity.
Grant Oliphant (04:29):
Yeah. Well, I I I am I've been so looking
forward to this conversationbecause, in in the work that
I've seen of yours, the videosthat I've seen of yours, you
just radiate creativity, andyou're engaged in a lot of
interesting things here in SanDiego that I think we ought to
be talking about, so I'm lookingforward to this conversation.
You are an artist, an activist,a community builder, you blend a
(04:54):
lot of skills, and I think maybea place to begin is just talking
a little bit about you and whoyou are, so would you, describe
briefly for our audience, whatyou're concentrating your work
on right now?
Ramel Wallace (05:09):
That's a great way to put it. To describe
myself, I would have to say thatI'm my mama's son.
Grant Oliphant (05:15):
I love that
Ramel Wallace (05:16):
That's the best way to describe me, and I try to
look at creativity as a way tocare as in creativity and care
go hand in hand. And if youchoose to care, it's one of the
most creative things that youcan do. And so even when you're
in the act of creating, you aresitting with something and
(05:38):
you're intimate with that ideaor that pencil or that paper.
And so I just wanna remindpeople to have that intimacy
with their lives. I've been ahip hop artist for 15 plus years
and telling stories through thatoutlet. And that led me into
emceeing, like, the master ofceremonies. So now, hosting
(05:58):
creative mornings and givingpeople a platform to tell their
stories.
Grant Oliphant (06:04):
And I really wanna come back to the, to the
work that you're doing throughCreative Mornings, but I love
this idea of you're being yourmama's son. So is that did she
teach you that or model that?Oh, she modeled that.
Ramel Wallace (06:18):
Yeah. And she taught me without knowing that
she's teaching me. My mom's nameis Nia. And so that means
purpose. And so, I feel like I'mcompleting my mother's purpose
And that's to be withincommunity, that's to be a voice
for the community, and that's tolisten to people as much as I
can.
(06:38):
And if I have it correct, Nia isa holiday or one of the days of
Kwanzaa.
Grant Oliphant (06:45):
Mmm
Ramel Wallace (06:45):
And so it's literally about bringing
community together and speakingfor that voice. So, I'm walking
in that sense of I'm my mama'sson because I'm my mama's
purpose.
Grant Oliphant (06:56):
Yeah. I I actually got goosebumps when you
said that because I was thinkingabout the the foundation's theme
for our work for the year is allaround purpose, you know we have
this idea of communitywell-being, being anchored in a
sense of belonging, a sense ofopportunity, and then a sense of
purpose. How did you come by thepurpose of being an artist?
(07:21):
Because what your mama, I'msorry. I keep calling her your
mom like that.
Your mom. What your mom conveyedto you was a sense of purpose,
but how for you did that comeinto being as an artist?
Ramel Wallace (07:35):
I've always learned that you have to learn
to articulate yourself. And so,one of the the the things for my
company called the Holyfield,which is like the back end of
everything that I do,
They do the admin of, like, allthe artistry and, like, PR of
all the artistry that you see mein is artifacts articulate my
(07:57):
arteries.
And so I have to look at thebones and and the arteries and
the veins of myself andarticulate that and and turn it
into some sort of artifact. Andwhen I think about artifacts, I
think about the word art, and Ithink about something that's
like, very beautiful that youdiscover. So I try to implement
(08:20):
that into, the things that Icreate. And for me, that's the
foundation of what hip hop is.Mhmm.
If you look at the creation andthe history of how hip hop was
created, the fact that it cameafter the civil rights, it was a
way to tell stories for peopleto remember. And so, there's
(08:42):
something that's political aboutit. There's something that is
historical about it. There'ssomething that's cultural about
it. It's not just words to rhyme
Grant Oliphant (08:50):
Mhmm.
Ramel Wallace (08:51):
But finding a purpose behind why you're
telling your story so thatpeople can, can marinate on it.
Grant Oliphant (08:58):
Yeah. In your, in your we're San Diegans
videos, which which really tookoff online. You talk about
concepts that are familiar toeveryone, of course, around love
of tacos, and I I particularlylove the one about people who
(09:20):
are being born here not wantinganybody to know that, but but
you're also in a very wry kindof dry humor way, candid about
issues around race, and, and andhow San Diego does or doesn't
deal with those. Were thosethemes always evident in your
(09:41):
art, would you say?
Ramel Wallace (09:43):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. From from the jump, even, like,
learning about 5 Percenters frommy my step grandfather, that was
always implemented it intoeverything. You, like, you had
to have some sort ofeducational, portion of what
you're doing or there's not acomplete purpose.
Grant Oliphant (10:06):
I'm hoping that we're, going to get to play a
couple of those clips on air aspart of this podcast, but, I if
if we can't or even if we can,I'd love to hear how did you get
the idea for We're San Diegans,and and how did you get the
ideas for some of the themes?What were what were the ones
(10:27):
that were most important to you?
Ramel Wallace (10:29):
Well well, first off, I was just shopping for my
family. It was Christmas, and Iwas like, oh, there's this we're
sisters video Yeah. That'sreally popular. And I always see
trends as opportunities to, stepinto a dialogue. Mhmm.
And so this was a major trend,and a lot of people were
stepping into this dialogue. AndI know so much about San Diegans
(10:53):
and people from San Diego. I'vebeen here for 35 years. I can
point out a personality of a SanDiegan, and it is sort of, like,
dry. It's it hasn't beendocumented enough.
It's funny, and we really enjoyeach other. And the things that
stick out about that one to me,I don't know. Maybe the the how
(11:17):
we can spot someone that's inthe military.
Grant Oliphant (11:20):
Oh, I love that. Yes.
Ramel Wallace (11:22):
That one really resonated with people
Grant Oliphant: Where you comment that, we don't need (11:24):
undefined
to be told that you were in thewe know. Yeah. I think was was
what you something like that.
Ramel Wallace (11:29):
I Yeah. I think it was
like, you could probably beat meup right now. I don't I don't
wanna be I'm going to mind mywords.
Grant Oliphant (11:40):
Yeah. Yeah.
Ramel Wallace (11:41):
The tacos were a big thing. Yeah. But then, like,
you know, reminding people thatwe're right by the biggest cross
border in the world. How can wetalk about just the beaches? How
can we talk about just theweather when politically and
socially, we're part of one ofthe biggest narratives that are
going to be part of the electionthat are already part of our
(12:01):
lives.
How are we going to talk aboutthese concepts? I feel like you
have to mix them together. Youhave to weave something like
make that quilt of what is thereality of San Diego, like along
with the humor with someonethat's actually from San Diego,
like there's a differentperspective. And oddly enough,
(12:23):
it's not always heard from thenatives because you might get 10
people in a room and 2 peopleare going to be from San Diego.
And so for the more for for themost part, you hear from people
that are not San Diegans.
So as a San Diegan, and we havethis very unique perspective.
And a lot of times, we waste toomuch time trying to down people
(12:45):
that are not from San Diego.Right. Those people make San
Diego what it is because there'sa certain drive that, like,
Detroit might bring out here. Wegot people from St.
Louis, New York, like, all overthe world, Germany. Like, it's
so interesting that we get allthese stories, all these
perspectives from San Diego, andit expands our creativity when
(13:06):
we absorb all of these cultures.
Grant Oliphant (13:09):
Yeah. I'd as somebody who's a newcomer
myself, I've been here 2 yearsnow, I really appreciate that
appreciation, because I do thinkhaving lived in a community
where that sort of influx ofpeople was missing, it is part
of the special vibrancy of SanDiego that we have so many folks
from so many different places.But I also appreciate how you're
(13:31):
calling out the perspective ofpeople who were born and raised
here and know the communityintimately, and have seen it
change a lot. Something you saida moment ago, Ramel, about the
border really resonated for mebecause I we we are doing a lot
of work in thinking aboutborders and celebrating that as
(13:53):
part of our culture, but whatwe've noticed at the foundation
is that communicate that thatconversation doesn't always
happen naturally in thiscommunity. And here we are at
this amazing location, and andthe the confluence of people and
ideas and cultures that happenshere is part of our special
(14:15):
sauce, and it's hard and andit's not naturally or
organically part of theconversation about what we
celebrate.
So I I appreciated you drawingattention to it in those videos,
but why do you think we strugglewith it?
Ramel Wallace (14:31):
Oh, man. That's such a great question. I feel
like a lot of people go comeinto San Diego thinking about
what they've been told about itinstead of saying, let's
explore. Geographically, it'salso hard to move around San
Diego. I feel like we've beenone of the biggest affected
cities when it comes toredlining, when it comes to
(14:51):
gentrification, when it comes toseparation.
And we're still separated in alot of these ways. Like, I, I
really didn't get the full graspof how close the border was
until I moved down to nationalcity. Even having grown up in
like Barrio Logan, like movingdown to national city, like
(15:12):
you're entering the South Bay,the border starts to really come
to you
Grant Oliphant (15:16):
Yeah
Ramel Wallace (15:16):
And you're engulfed in those communities.
You're more surrounded. Theelote man is going down the
street and elote elote elotelove that. I love that.
It's happening. You're tastingnew foods. You're discovering
new cultures. You're getting newfriends and you're getting this
intimate perspective and whatthat proximity does with
intimate perspective. And bellhooks talks about it.
(15:38):
When you have an intimaterelationship, friendship with
someone you learn about theirculture differently, Like you
sit down and you have dinnerwith their families. Like, it's
a it's a different type ofperspective that you have, and
you really start to it reallystarts to enter your life when
you enter the South Bay.
Grant Oliphant (15:58):
This is such a powerful concept, and I'm, you
know, I'm thinking about how Ihave grown to really love this
community over the course of thepast 2 years, and the reasons
for that have deepened over the2 years. You know, I had one set
of reasons when I arrived here.Some of them might have had to
(16:19):
do about with weather, whichturned out to be a lie or
slightly misleading.
Ramel Wallace (16:26):
Right.
Grant Oliphant (16:26):
But I you know, they've deepened over time, and
I I think so often what we fallin love with with play about
places is superficial, and whatyou're describing is the whole
process of coming into deeperrelationship. Is is that how you
think about your art?
Ramel Wallace (16:44):
Yeah. It's an opportunity to be intimate with
myself, my experiences, and toget in touch with them because I
love how you said that. Yeah.There's a superficial, there's a
superficial view that peoplefall in love with. I feel like
there is media that PR SanDiego, like, it gets dropped a
(17:07):
lot in the media or someonemight spin a globe around and
stop and say, oh, I'm gonna moveto San Diego.
And and it becomes that placewhere you escape. Yeah. And then
San Diego was this peoplepleaser as well. Like, it gives
you everything.
Grant Oliphant (17:22):
Yeah.
Ramel Wallace (17:22):
And, my stepfather, he's from New York,
and he explained it to me, like,you know what? San Diego is also
easy to live in. It's not justweather, and that's nice, but
you don't have to, you know,start your car, like, 40 minutes
before when it's the wintertime,and you can just hop in your car
and go drive somewhere. Sothere's a simplicity that I
(17:45):
understand why people fall inlove with, but there's also,
more than that. And I encouragepeople to do that and to look,
look at their relationship in acreative way to San Diego,
because there's so much morehere than what they tell you.
Grant Oliphant (18:00):
Yeah. And that and it's so clear in your We Are
San Diegans videos that that'sthe story you're you're telling,
because it touches on all of it.Right? I mean you've got the
things that people have in theirminds, and then you go from
there. What is it like to be anartist in San Diego?
Let's talk about that. You talkabout creativity a lot, it's the
(18:24):
focus of your work. It's whatdrives your work. But what is it
like to be an artist here?
Ramel Wallace (18:31):
I think that it's hard because for anybody that's
in San Diego, it's hard to livebecause it's so expensive. And
as the artist, you're alwayslooking for, you know, say the
payout or the grant or the albumthat's gonna lead you to success
so that you can survive here. Igot 2 bags on me. I got 2
(18:55):
laptops. I'm coming off a Googlemigration at work.
I'm thinking about creativethings. I'm working on a gallery
called Black Barrio Logan. Andso,
Grant Oliphant (19:05):
You have some, some stuff going on.
Ramel Wallace (19:07):
Yeah. There's a and and I'm just a reflection of
all these artists that havestuff going on. They're trying
to think about ways to survive,and they're trying to think
about paying rent. And socreativity goes into that as
well. Not we're not justcreative in the sense of we can
make a mural really good, butcreativity in the sense of
(19:30):
survival is something that wepractice in San Diego.
Grant Oliphant (19:35):
I, Ramel, I so appreciate that connection of
creativity to survival becauseyou hear about that a lot from
artists, but the idea of havingto apply your creative skills to
the to the process of justmaking ends meet. I actually
think that was in the We Are SanDiegans video as well. The you
know, the idea of of how closeartists are at any one moment
(19:59):
to, to being in desperatestraits. Oh, I forgot about
Ramel Wallace (20:04):
that part. It was such a natural thing that I just
was speaking from my experience.But, yeah, I was like, we we're
nice to the homeless because oneday we might be them. That's
what you
Grant Oliphant (20:16):
yeah. It was, well, and and I you know what?
Again, what I what I appreciatedabout that whole approach is how
you you knitted together thethings you see. Oh, and as
somebody who's seen thiscommunity through, through,
experienced eyes for a longtime. So thank you for that.
(20:37):
I I may come back to thatbecause it's just I I just think
it's fabulous, but, let's talkabout some of your other work.
You're the head of somethingcalled Creative Mornings here,
and tell us a little bit aboutthat organization, What's
important to it and to you inthat work.
Ramel Wallace (20:57):
I am the host. I'm so humbled by being the host
of creative mornings isbasically, it's a global
conversation and it's thebiggest breakfast lecture series
in the world. And so we're inabout 67 countries. There are
200 plus chapters around theworld. So if you go into any
(21:19):
major city, there's going to bea creative mornings.
That's going to be a lectureevery last Friday of the month.
There's going to be free coffeeand free donuts, and there's
going to be a community that isvery receptive. I just so happen
to be the host of creativemornings in San Diego. And it's
the 8th biggest chapter in theworld. And it's been an amazing
(21:42):
experience just to heardifferent creative people's
stories and to expand anddiversify that community itself
so that it sees creativity inall these ways that, I've been
had, that I've been able to,experience for myself.
Grant Oliphant (22:00):
Now it's open to anybody. Right? Can anybody
Ramel Wallace (22:03):
Anybody can go is free. Yeah. But I I'd be telling
people to just go. Don't even ifyou don't register, show up.
Grant Oliphant (22:13):
That's okay. You heard it here, folks, from the
host. How do you think how doyou think that San Diego came to
have the 8th largest chapter ofcreative mornings in the world?
That's extraordinary. I mean,we're the we're we're we're the
8th largest city or so inAmerica, but the 8th largest
(22:35):
chapter in the world is prettysignificant.
How did that happen?
Ramel Wallace (22:39):
Shout out to Nate and shout out to grizzly, which
is his design and branding firmthat ended up getting really big
after the pandemic. WithoutNate, without Grizzly, Creative
Mornings would not be where itis today.
Grant Oliphant (22:55):
And can you quickly tell us who Nate is for
the audience's sake?
Ramel Wallace (22:58):
Yes. Nate is the original host of Creative
Mornings. He started it out herein San Diego, and he ran that,
from 2,000, I want to say 15 to2020. And I took over in 2021
until now. And so he laid thefoundation, he used his
community.
He, he used that idea of thisloneliness epidemic, the fact
(23:23):
there's that there are so manycreatives in San Diego and that
branding has a strong hold onSan Diego and telling stories.
He it's just something that he'sreally good at.
Grant Oliphant (23:37):
Yeah. And and how did you come into the role?
How did you succeed him?
Ramel Wallace (23:43):
I showed up. I showed up. I I remember I went
to my first creative mornings,maybe 2016, and I would just
follow the free food. So I saidfree coffee, free donuts. I'm
there.
You ain't even gonna say nothingelse. And I showed up and it was
an amazing community. I heard areally good lecture. They
dropped nuggets that I couldapply to my life. And I said
(24:04):
that I wanted to be a part ofthis.
And I think I did a postafterwards that said it was like
me with some coffee or somedonuts that said, oh, I want to
talk at the next creativemornings, but really the work in
just showing up and buildingcommunity is what got me into
hosting. And I was also aspeaker in 2017, And, I changed
(24:27):
the format and kind of called itout for, you know, being a white
space.
Grant Oliphant (24:32):
Mhmm.
Ramel Wallace (24:32):
And that there's so many other forms of
creativity that aren't beingacknowledged. And so, I think
that you can step into spaces,but still, you know, notice that
there can be a change there. AndI think there's a boldness that
people really respect when youdo that. And so, it was
(24:54):
relationships and it was,speaking my truth.
Grant Oliphant (24:58):
Yeah. Say more about that if you would for a
moment about changing theformat. What how did you decide
that you wanted to do itdifferently?
Ramel Wallace (25:08):
I've had so many conversations with random people
on the street that have beenlife changing conversations in
homes that have been lifechanging. I would say around
2015, there was a certain formatthat Ted talk would kind of use.
(25:28):
You could even just look at thehand gestures and say, I kinda
know where this speech is going.And my talk was not like that. I
went to the stage like a WWFwrestler.
I had everybody stand up andeverything, and it was a little
chaotic, but enough to groundpeople
Grant Oliphant (25:50):
Mhmm.
Ramel Wallace (25:50):
To know that this is
Grant Oliphant (25:52):
Different.
Ramel Wallace (25:52):
This is different right here, but I'm still
receptive to it, and it's usingelements that I haven't seen and
talking about, race in thisdiplomatic way
Grant Oliphant (26:03):
Yeah.
Ramel Wallace (26:03):
That's still bold and creative and telling people
that they have the ability tochange.
Grant Oliphant (26:11):
So what do you look for in now that you're the
host, what do you look for inspeakers?
Ramel Wallace (26:16):
I mostly look for speakers that align with the
theme. Each month has its owntheme, and then someone that has
been, that has something comingup. Because I work in PR. I have
a, PR kind of background. And soit's really good to line things
up.
Like you don't want something tohappen and then you don't have
(26:38):
say like a, a show or a gallerycoming up or maybe something to
buy afterwards. So look atpeople's trajectory and when
their projects are coming outand try to help them with that
with that launch. But in a senseof, you know, who's really
creative, we're looking at, ateverything like your presence on
(27:00):
social media. We're looking atthe artwork that you create, and
we're looking at theconversations that we're
missing.
Grant Oliphant (27:07):
Oh, interesting. So one of your themes for
creative mornings is thateveryone is creative. Yes. And
you're looking for speakers whoembody that in multiple ways.
Ramel Wallace (27:17):
Multiple ways.
Grant Oliphant (27:18):
And you hope that they will convey to people
in the audience ways in whichthey can be creative in their
own lives. Is that right?
Ramel Wallace (27:25):
Yes.
Grant Oliphant (27:25):
Yeah. It's a, my my experience with creative
mornings in other places hasbeen, that it does that well.
And so hats off to you for whatyou're trying to do. Do you
think, you have this big chapterin San Diego. Do you think the
message is getting out there?
Ramel Wallace (27:46):
Yeah. The message is it's it's wild to see that
this space has changed and alsokept a lot of its original
elements. But I see the changein the conversations that we
have with the people that are,that are there. They're like,
this feels different. Like I'mhearing different voices.
(28:06):
One of my favorite ones is therewas a, a death doula named
Sarah. She came and spoke. Mhmm.And a lot of people haven't even
heard of what a death doula is,but they guide you through that
process of death. Mhmm.
And she's telling this story,and I kid you not the room,
everybody crying in the room. Idon't think I besides, like,
funerals, like, I ain't been ina joy, like, cry. Like, this was
(28:31):
an experience. This wasspiritual. Wow. Wow.
And she was showing us theprocess of her father
transitioning, but also bringingin all these creative things
that he loved, the books that heloved, the colors that he loved,
the things that he fell in lovewith, the the artwork that was
created, these artifacts, theseartifacts of his life,
Grant Oliphant (28:53):
Right
Ramel Wallace (28:53):
so we were seeing that, oh, this is also why we
love things and we want toremember them. And so, people
coming up to me and andreassuring that, oh, wow. That
just happened.
Grant Oliphant (29:09):
Yeah. Powerful, powerful stuff. Are there any
other talks that stand out toyou in that fashion?
Ramel Wallace (29:16):
Oh, DaShay's talk stands out in another fashion,
where DaShay is a a long friend,she's a DJ, and she just did a
really cool talk. And then atthe end of it, because it was
her birthday, we saw the, the,the black happy birthday, But it
was so joyous. It was justridiculous. I was like, who
(29:38):
noticed the black happybirthday? And then my friend
came out and she sang itbeautifully.
And so we were able to show abunch of white folks, like
Grant Oliphant (29:47):
Doing the
Ramel Wallace (29:48):
yes. Yes. Doing a good because we got a bunch of
black folks that day doing agood happy birthday. So, you
know, shout out to StevieWonders.
Grant Oliphant (29:55):
And before we move on from that, so who
typically comes? You saidanybody. Every everybody's
invited, but is it is ittypically a young crowd?
Typically, you know, what whatwhat's the composition of the
group?
Ramel Wallace (30:07):
Yeah. I would say, like, creatives come, like,
a lot of people that do graphicdesign, that are in video, a lot
of people that are, say,freelancers come, poets come,
the thread that I really see arestorytellers, people that wanna
tell some sort of story or getto know how to tell a story
(30:27):
better because they may have abrand, a product, something that
they've created, and they wannabe able to tell that story of
what that product or brand is.Yeah. Maybe there's, like, 18 to
40 that go. And, yeah, it's ait's a it's a lot of variety of
(30:48):
people.
Grant Oliphant (30:50):
I, I think what you're doing is for people who
are looking for sources to feedthat engine of creativity or
just to get back in touch withit. You're providing such a
powerful service, so thank youfor for that. I I I feel like I
wouldn't be doing you justicethough if, if I didn't also
mention the other hats you wear.So you mentioned the Holyfield,
(31:15):
your that's your that's sort ofyour backbone business that you
use to stay alive as an artist.And or, and then, you are also,
affiliated with the San DiegoAfrican American Museum of Fine
Art.
Yes. Tell us a little bit aboutwhat you do there.
Ramel Wallace (31:33):
I'm on the board, and I do a lot of their
marketing. I help them withtheir website, and I get the
word out about what they'redoing. And one of the missions
is to preserve black culture. Sothat's kind of become, I guess,
gas in my engine for anythingthat I do, whether it's the holy
field or whether it's creativemornings, I wanna be able to
(31:54):
preserve black culture. Rightnow, we have a Kehinde Wiley
piece in, Balboa Park, And so Ihelp them talk about these
things, I help them curateevents, and, yeah.
Grant Oliphant (32:08):
Do you
see, black culture as threatenedor imperiled in San Diego in any
way?
Ramel Wallace (32:15):
Without a doubt.
Grant Oliphant (32:16):
Yeah. Can you say more about that?
Ramel Wallace (32:18):
But my passion is always twisted around towards important things need to be
talked about.And a lot of black culture is not actually talked about and
so to to preserve things for
everyone's sake, you have topreserve black culture. Like,
the preservation of blackculture is a reminder to
(32:41):
preserve all these othercultures. And, it it is at at
risk and at threat. There's awar on DEI.
There's a war on wokeness.There's a war on all these words
that represent a differentversion of my culture.
Grant Oliphant (32:56):
Yeah. Yeah.
Ramel Wallace (32:57):
And so, yeah, there is a threat, but my focus
is, it just needs to bepreserved.
Grant Oliphant (33:05):
Right. Yeah. And I I I I I it just strikes me
you're you, mentioning theattack on wokeness. It's so true
that it enjoyed about ananosecond as a as actually a
word of praise in the blackcommunity for people who sort of
got got it. And and all of asudden, in an, you know, in the
(33:29):
blink of an eye, it was co optedas an attack.
And so I I think it's importantfor people to hold what you're
talking about when you'retalking about, the threat on
Black culture. That it's notsimply a numbers game or
demographics in San Diego. It'sit's also about where we are
culturally in terms of aligningwith those values.
Ramel Wallace (33:52):
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And especially
looking at, looking at numbers.
Grant Oliphant (33:57):
Mhmm.
Ramel Wallace (33:57):
You never want the people that are, the
minorities to be, takenadvantage of.
Grant Oliphant (34:07):
Right.
Ramel Wallace (34:07):
You never want the the powerless to be taken
advantage of. That's not a goodway to build a foundation for
society.
Grant Oliphant (34:14):
Right. Well, and I think I think what we
fundamentally know in our in ourbetter moments, especially in a
place like San Diego, is that weare made better by this mix of
people. And so if that is true,then we wanna hold on to the
strengths of all of them. And Ithink that's why the concept of
(34:36):
belonging has been so centralfor the Prebys Foundation that
we just see that as so importantto the narrative of the future
of the country, and that SanDiego is probably better
equipped as a community to tellit than any other place.
Ramel Wallace (34:52):
That's right. That's right.
Grant Oliphant (34:54):
So you also since we're on that subject, you
also, are affiliated with BAM.
Ramel Wallace (35:03):
Oh, yeah. BAM. Yes.
Grant Oliphant (35:05):
So tell me tell me about that too.
Ramel Wallace (35:08):
BAM is a PR marketing firm. And so they're
adjacent to the tech industry.And we basically get people
published in differentpublications. So it might be
Forbes, it might be Inc, and I'mthe senior community manager.
So, I'm so happy that I've beenable to kinda fuse my life into
(35:29):
things that kinda work togetherbecause the fact that I'm at
Bam, I can be here on, like, a aweekday. Yeah. And, yeah, I like
the idea of of, you know,technology. AI is coming around.
How's that gonna affectcreativity?
And I think it's smart to reallylearn how technology works and
(35:51):
also this VC world works. Cause,you know, Prebys Foundation is
giving so much opportunity andand so many funds to people that
are doing amazing things andgiving a voice to people in San
Diego. But then there's alsothis VC world that's giving out,
funding and things,
Grant Oliphant: Huge money. Huge money. (36:08):
undefined
Ramel Wallace (36:09):
and it's like, oh, wow. Yeah. How does it work?
How can I take some elementsfrom here and apply it to what
I'm doing as well? Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (36:16):
Well, it's fascinating. I'm I said you wear
many hats, but what is reallyinteresting is how you thread
them together, and it's allaround that, it's around
creativity, and it's aroundcommunity. So, I I just I think
you're leading a veryinteresting life.
Ramel Wallace (36:35):
Oh, thank you. Thank you.
Grant Oliphant (36:37):
I, so what are you what projects are are most
interesting to you right now? Iknow, you know, you were
selected, as an artist for FarSouth Border North, which is an
individual artist program thatthe foundation also supported.
Tell us about that project andwhat got you into it.
Ramel Wallace (36:59):
What got me into that project, being a part of
the San Diego African AmericanMuseum of Fine Art. They, they
give me so much information ingame and and, they let me know
about things that are happeningbecause sometimes you have to
dig for information. And so I'mso grateful that I was
(37:21):
introduced to that grant. Andwhat I'm working on with that
grant is a gallery called blackBarrio Logan. Before the where
San Diegans video, I did a videocalled the last black man in
barrio Logan.
And that was me telling my storyabout my great grandma moving
from Pensacola, Florida toBarrio Logan in the sixties. And
(37:44):
not only did she live there, butmy grandma lived there too. And
my aunt lived there and my momlived there and my dad lived
there and I grew up there when Iwas young as well, and we didn't
own this house. So the bigcoincidence was why did we all
live there? And that was becauseof redlining.
(38:08):
And that was because of, youknow, government sanctions and
and real estate agents and banksworking together. And so I was
telling that story and thatvideo went super viral and I
started to dig deeper into whatthat story was and that led me
into the, that led me intodiscovering that Barrio Logan
(38:29):
was once a black neighborhood.And so documenting what that
looks like, that's part of theblack Barrio Logan experience.
And so I step into it where youtake my point of view. I had a
gallery called the church inBarrio Logan from 2014 to 2018,
(38:49):
and I was also living downthere.
I was discovering this storythat my family didn't have a
sense of pride in because therewas this hidden discrimination
of just that's the only place wecould live.
Grant Oliphant (39:04):
Right. And
Ramel Wallace (39:04):
so I was discovering this history and
kind of turning that, thatmonster into a masterpiece. Like
how can I flip this story andlearn more about it? And so, I
learned about, the blackcommunity that was in downtown
and the Douglas and the Harlemof the west, and then how people
(39:25):
ended up migrating to BarrioLogan and how that pink church
is was a black Baptist churchand black folks built that
church. And so, not only talkingabout the black history, but
it's called black barrio Logan.It's all of those words.
What does that proximity do whenyou can have that intimate
(39:45):
conversation and relationshipand proximity to the Mexican and
Hispanic community? What doesthat look like as well? And so I
take pictures from the church.We're gonna take pictures from
other times as well and give youthat experience as well as a
conversation about housing andredlining and why San Diego is
(40:08):
shaped like this. Right.
Right. It's gonna be a future iscolor. And I think by the time
that this is out, it's it'sgonna be just open and probably
until the end of summer.
Grant Oliphant (40:19):
Yeah. This is this is an amazing story. I I
mean, certainly, some of thethemes that you touch on,
Justin, what you outlined, youknow, people do need to know and
understand the extent to whichredlining was a significant
force in shaping the history ofthis community. And it's
(40:40):
fascinating to understand thegenesis of a neighborhood and
who lived there before. Thepeople who live there now live
there.
I'm curious, as an artist, whenyou're doing a project like
that, are you trying to justtell a story or are you thinking
about what you want people totake away from it?
Ramel Wallace (41:01):
Stepping into it, I feel like I I want people to
take away a certain thing fromit, but then I try to remove
that because I can't controlthat.
so I try to tell the story asaccurately and as creative. And
as from my perspective, alongwith, David Colon, he's a
(41:22):
photographer I'm working withour 2 perspectives and then
really, document and then askpeople, what is what is this for
you?
Grant Oliphant (41:32):
Yeah.
Ramel Wallace (41:32):
Because when I did that viral video, the last
black man in Barrio Logan, I wastelling my story, but it was so
many other people's storiesthat, I was humbled by that. And
that's one of the biggestexperiences. How are other
people gonna gonna interpretthis, and how can it affect and
(41:52):
change their lives?
Grant Oliphant (41:54):
I like that methodology because I think that
so often when we set out to tellpeople what they should know or
think, that's not what they endup knowing or thinking because
because that's not how theyreceive the message. But when
you simply tell a story aboutyour own experience and make it
(42:14):
open enough that others can addtheir own stories to it, then it
takes off or can, I think? Andthat's what you experienced
here. Is that a fair descriptionof what happened?
Ramel Wallace (42:24):
That's a fair description of what's happening.
And it and it makes me think ofsomething like like DEI. Where
one of the things that you do isyou you you use I statements.
Mhmm. You talk from yourperspective because you can't
really control anybody else'sand you don't know anybody
else's perspective.
So we've been taking thissomething that we might apply to
(42:46):
minorities, but saying, like,oh, no. This using these points
of view can help us withcommunication.
Grant Oliphant (42:53):
Yeah. So let's go back to your mom for a moment
and her the lesson she taughtyou which you internalized. The
Prebys Foundation has, Imentioned earlier, has adopted
this idea for our work of howhow we wanna work in a space
(43:13):
that ultimately is about, a agood and healthy community. So
community well-being is how werefer to it. It's kind of a
health mindset, but at acommunity level.
And part of what we believe isthat, communities are healthy
when the people inside themreally feel like they belong
(43:35):
there, regardless of who theyare. And when the people who are
in that community feel that theycan be successful in some way,
shape, or form at whatever it isthey wanna do. They can feed
their families. They can enjoy adecent life. That's opportunity.
And then and then maybe thepinnacle of it all is that they
(43:57):
can find their unique lifepurpose in that community. You
know, this is a place where itmay not it may not do it for
them, but it will it will enablethem, empower them to find that
sense of purpose that drivesthem in their lives. As you
think back on what you've justdescribed with the work that
you're doing, how are art howcan I wanna connect what you're
(44:21):
doing as an artist with withwhat I just described? Well,
first of all, I should ask you asimple question. Does all of
that resonate for you?
Ramel Wallace (44:32):
That's a that's a good question. That I'm trying
to catch it. I'm trying to catchall of the ones. Because what
you talked about, my mom Yeah.And, what she would always tell
me is that, you know, a mouthcan say anything.
(44:52):
It's what you have to do. Whatyou have to do is look at
people's actions. And socreativity is like the
foundation of a lot of people'spotential actions. You have to
see what they, what they create,and it can be a safe space when
you go out there and createamongst other people.
Grant Oliphant (45:12):
Right.
Ramel Wallace (45:13):
But one of the, the main things that I really
get is a framework. When I'mworking with the museum, I get a
framework of how things can bepictured. And look, when I'm
talking to my mom, I get aframework of how I can move
through life through someonethat loves me. What does love
look like when I'm, when I'mhere at the podcast, I get a
(45:33):
framework of what this lookslike the waters that are here,
the papers that are around. Alot of us don't have frameworks
even for health.
And so when it comes tocreativity, you are articulating
who you are. You're building aframework for yourself. It's so
hard to see the self. Sometimesyou have to create the self in
(45:56):
order to see the self in orderto care about the self in order
to say, I don't feel good orthis air does not feel right
where I'm at or something's notright. Right.
You need a framework that hashas said those things or
articulated it before and saidthat it's okay.
Grant Oliphant (46:17):
There's so much in that statement. I mean, it's
incredibly powerful concept.Part of what comes up for me is
just, yeah, we have to helppeople be able to have the
structures and the language thatallows them to enter into the
work you're describing. But I'malso taking that, from this
conversation, the centrality ofcreativity in the future of this
(46:42):
community. You know, I think Ithink what I believe and now
wanna talk about more is thatthe future of San Diego really
does hinge on unleashing thecreativity that is here more.
And I so appreciate the work.That's what I see you doing. And
I it's why I think we wanted tohave you on this podcast. And, I
(47:08):
I just so appreciate yourefforts to make San Diego the
creative engine that it can be.So, Ramel, if, folks who are
listening want to connect withBlack Barrio Logan, where how
how can
Ramel Wallace (47:21):
they do it? You can check out Future is Color.
It's just gonna be on the walls.It's right there on Lowrider
Lane, and it will be therehopefully until the end of
summer.
Grant Oliphant (47:33):
Fantastic. Alright. Future is color. Future
is color. Love it.
Thank you for being with us.
Ramel Wallace (47:39):
Thank you so much. Thank you. I appreciate
it. I loved your questions, andI'm taking notes on how to be a
better interviewer.
Grant Oliphant (47:46):
Oh, you're great. I will take that as the
ultimate compliment, Ramel.Thank you.
Ramel Wallace (47:51):
Thank you.
Crystal Page (47:55):
So much to think about from that episode.
Grant Oliphant (47:56):
Goodness. Yes.
Crystal Page (47:58):
So I I need a little help. So k. Ramel talked
about artifacts articulate myarteries.
Grant Oliphant (48:04):
Oh, you would start with with the easy
concept, wouldn't you? Yeah.Yeah. So your question is, what
was he driving at?
Crystal Page (48:11):
Yeah. Break it down for me.
Grant Oliphant (48:12):
That's Well, you know, I can do my I can do my
version. I I think I think thiswas really an important
perspective from an artist,because I think what he was
saying is there are there are somany passions and forces that
shape our lives, from thehistorical to the systemic to
(48:35):
the spiritual, you know all ofthat, and I think those are the
arteries for him. But then tomake them manifest, you know to
bring them into the world sothat we have clarity about them,
that's the role in many ways ofart, and so artifacts become a
way of expressing these theseotherwise very almost ethereal
(48:58):
things. And for an artist, forhim as an artist, become a way
of bringing into the room andinto the conversation this
deeper understanding of theworld that's happening in the
background all the time. That'swhat I interpreted it as, and I
does that resonate with you?
Crystal Page (49:16):
I think it does. I used to do a training, for
communications, entry levelfolks, and I'd say, I want you
to look back and think about allthe the cookie crumbs you're
gonna leave behind, because allof those things really are a
reflection of who we are as aculture. Or you think about an
AP history test where you haveto analyze an old commercial and
write about it. And and I thinkthat there is that element. But
(49:39):
for him, it just felt so deeplypersonal.
What what did you take away interms of, how he lives that
creativity? Like, it just seemsso deep, I I felt.
Grant Oliphant (49:50):
Well, again, you know, an expression of I I I a
line that I use a lot, almost asa joke, but that lots of people
use is everything is a metaphor.And, you know, there this is
this is something that we allhave accessible to us at any
moment in our own expression ofcreativity. If we think about
(50:11):
what are the things I'm doing,what are the things I'm
thinking, what are the thingsI'm expressing, or what is this
event or or thing that'shappening in my life? What does
it stand for for me? And justthat process of stepping back
and reflecting on what somethingrepresents, I think again is the
role of the artist.
It, it it helps us see thedeeper meaning behind, everyday
(50:36):
life that otherwise feelsoverwhelming and pressing in all
the time. You know, what struckme in a just to leap off of that
point for a moment in thisinterview well, there's so much
that struck me in thisinterview. But one of the things
that struck me was just the thebread and butter reality of
being an artist in San Diego.You know, it is it is, hard, and
(51:01):
Ramel, demonstrates that withoutcomplaining by having multiple
businesses and multiple hats,even as he pursues his
creativity. And that we hearthat from artists a lot in San
Diego.
Crystal Page (51:15):
It makes me think of when you spoke with Phylicia
Shaw. Right? We talk about the,nobility of the struggle, but
it's like, no. You know,sometimes you see people
juggling 3 or 5 things, andmaybe it's because they love it,
but it's also because they needto survive.
Grant Oliphant (51:29):
Exactly. Yeah.
Crystal Page (51:31):
And the fact that he just seems to also radiate
joy while trying to juggle 5things and while trying to
express and connect, For me,that's really inspiring, but
what did you take
Grant Oliphant (51:43):
I'd I'd exactly the same thing. You know, I I he
clearly, has a love of SanDiego, and a joy about life, and
a joy about about what he getwhat he does, and a joy about
living in this place. I thinkthough if you if you really look
at the, you know, we're from SanDiego, so we meme, theirs are
(52:10):
they're very dry and rye in someways too. And there's there are
serious messages that comethrough here.
And what I hear him saying inthat venue, much the same as he
did in this interview, is thathe, he loves this place and it
could be better, you know. Itcan like any community, there
are ways in which it can improveby looking at tough parts of its
(52:35):
history, or looking at certainbehaviors, not ones that we joke
about, you know, with the tacos,and the and the french fries,
and, you know, it's it's moreabout, you know, composition of
the community and how how thecommunity behaves.
Crystal Page (52:53):
Yeah. That I think what you're saying there really
resonates with me because eventhough my family is from here, I
did not realize how black BarrioLogan had been at some point. So
the fact that he is using hisfar south border north work to
express this and
Ramel Wallace (53:11):
Yeah.
Crystal Page (53:11):
Talk about redlining and things that I
think I don't think it's evenmalicious on a lot of folks'
parts. I think we just don'tknow this history. Right? So
he's unearthing this thing thatI'm excited to see this summer.
Grant Oliphant (53:24):
Yeah. I'd it's a funny thing about being human.
We tend to imagine that theworld was always like the way we
find it, And, you know, we seeBarrio Logan actually going
through changes today, but thisisn't the first time that the
community has faced change, andwhere it's demography and makeup
(53:46):
has faced tensions andpressures. I think that was a
beautiful part of the story thathe was that he that he's telling
through this project. I alsolove the fact that he's using
far south border north as thecontext for that, because what
could easily get lost in in thatframing is the narrative of the
(54:10):
multiple, ethnicities and racesthat make up this particular
community.
And this is an extra I've I'vesaid this before. It's amazing
to me coming in from the outsideas I did a couple of years ago.
One of the incredible strengthsof San Diego is this wealth of
diverse peoples who all meet upin this one place, as I like to
(54:36):
say between the desert and thesea. You know, we just really
have this magical spot. And heis using the occasion of the far
south border north piece tocelebrate an often forgotten
chapter in that in thatnarrative.
Crystal Page (54:54):
And I realize, Grant, you and I know what Far
South Border North is. Maybe ifyou're an artist or a grantee,
you might know. What is FarSouth Border North?
Grant Oliphant (55:03):
Yeah. Far South Border North was, a, a a project
started by, the county and andartists in this community, in
response to a challenge from thestate, that was really designed
to support the work ofindividual artists in
(55:24):
California. That, by the way, isa very visionary program because
California, more than almost anyother state in the union,
depends heavily on creativityfor its economic growth and
vitality and image, Andcelebrating individual artists,
I think is a really criticalpart of that. So Far South
Border North was our particularprogram in this in in San Diego
(55:50):
to celebrate individual artistsas part of that program. It was
funded, in part by the state,and also by the Conrad Prebys
Foundation, which we were veryproud to do because we just see
the role of artists as beingincredibly integral to the the
(56:11):
path that this community is on.
Crystal Page (56:15):
With what you're saying with the the city and
with the state, I guess I don'talways appreciate government's
role in advancing art andsomeone like Ramel really
digging in on how do I connectpeople based on the history and
the connections. But this otherconnection I noticed you and
Rommel had in the interview, Youseem to really brighten up when
(56:39):
he talked about his mom andYeah. His mom's purpose. Will
will you say some say more aboutthat?
Grant Oliphant (56:44):
Well, you know, I brightened up a lot when I was
talking with Ramel because he'sjust one of these people who has
kind of an you you mentionedthis. He's got kind of this
infectious joy about him. So, itis fun to talk to him even as he
makes you think and gives youpause. But I just really loved
the story he shared of being, ashe referenced it, his mama's
(57:10):
son. And, I mean, he got me socaught up in it.
I started referring to hismother as his mama, and it just
it was so natural, in in how heorients himself in the world.
And his mother's name is Nia,which he shared with us, is
means purpose. And he seeshimself as carrying forward in
(57:35):
some ways her purpose in theworld that he gets to be an
extension of of that legacy. AndI thought that was incredibly
powerful. You know, there was anhonoring of ancestry there, and
also a tapping into this reallydeeply resonant idea that we we
(57:57):
are at our best when we have apurpose in life, you know, when
we have a reason that we'repursuing, the activities we're
pursuing the world and thatanimates us.
And I think that came out of thestory with his mom.
Crystal Page (58:12):
I mean, I I guess the more I think about that,
right, he's living his mother'spurpose, that extension. Like,
do you feel like we as SanDiegans are living the living
out the purpose of those whocame before us?
Grant Oliphant (58:25):
Well, I I think if I put wrap all of this in a
neat bow, you know, here's andyou know the filter I see San
Diego through and the work ofphilanthropy through. I think
what Ramel is saying through hiscombination of wit and humor and
insight and truth telling andstorytelling is that San Diego
is this amazing dynamic placeand it can do even better and
(58:48):
greater things in the world thanthan we imagine are possible
right now. That's what webelieve, and I I think that's
what he is what he is tappinginto through his work. You know,
a couple of thoughts that Ithink were really important for,
for takeaways in terms ofphilanthropy, one was, where he
(59:09):
talked about how trends are areopportunities to step into
dialogue, and he really spokeabout the importance of
conversation, the importance ofengaging with people, the
importance of meeting peoplewhere they are. And I think
there if there is a message thatour society generally, not just
this community, but everycommunity in the United States
(59:30):
of America needs right now,that's that's a resonant message
that we should all be payingattention to.
The other thing that he saidthat was magical for me was that
caring is creativity, you know,that we the way in which whoever
we are, if we think of ourselvesas an artist or not, when we
step into caring for other humanbeings, we are being creative
(59:54):
human beings. That that feltbeautiful to me.
Crystal Page (59:57):
Yeah. That stood out to me. It gave me pause just
because I think when I'm in ahurry or I don't have a chance
to connect with folks, I'm like,save the creativity for later.
Right? Like, do my to do list.
But if that's the lens I'mapproaching the world and
approaching San Diego or evenapproaching our work with, I
think it changes like, what whatI got from Ramel and your
(01:00:17):
conversation with him is alsojust the ability to focus in on
creativity as a bridge betweenpeople. And so, yeah, I gotta
sit with that.
Grant Oliphant (01:00:27):
Yeah. Well, I you know, we tend to we tend to
privilege the word creativity inthe same way we privilege the
word leadership. You know, wethink of leaders as the people
standing in front of the room.We think of creatives as the
artist painting at an easel, oror writing the script for the TV
show, and and in Ramel's case,it's true. But but for both of
(01:00:54):
those words actually signifyvery common, widely distributed
human talents that we all havethe opportunity to exercise in
some way, and I think what Ramelwas asking us to tap into was
being creative, and being aleader through being creative,
And that was a pretty coolchallenge.
(01:01:14):
And it's actually a challengethat we all I don't care what
walk of life you're in, or whatrole or title you think you
have, or how fancy it is or notfancy. That's a message you
could take home.
Crystal Page (01:01:28):
Let's end there. Ding ding ding.
Grant Oliphant (01:01:30):
Alright. Beautiful. Thank you. Crystal,
it's a joy.
Crystal Page (01:01:34):
Thank you, Grant.
Grant Oliphant (01:01:36):
This is a production of the Prebys
Foundation, hosted by GrantOliphant, and co hosted by
Krystal Page. The program is coproduced by Crystal Page and
Adam Greenfield, and it'sengineered by Adam Greenfield.
Production assistance isprovided by Tess Karesky. And
(01:01:58):
our new theme song is by misterLyrical Groove, a local San
Diego artist. Download episodesat your favorite podcatcher or
visit us at stop and talkpodcast.org.
If you like this show, and wereally hope you do, the best way
to support it is to share,subscribe, and review our
(01:02:21):
podcast. Thank you for yoursupport, your ideas, and most of
all, for listening. This programhas been recorded at The Voice
of San Diego
Hey, Grant.
Grant Oliphant (00:12):
Hey, Crystal.
Crystal Page (00:13):
Do you wanna do a meme or a meme as my grandma
calls them?
Grant Oliphant (00:17):
I I love that. Yes. Let's do that.
Crystal Page (00:19):
Okay. We are San Diegans. We say we're not
worried, but we totally are.
Grant Oliphant (00:27):
Oh, okay. I love this game. We are San Diegans,
so of course, we say we want itto rain and then we complain
when it does.
Crystal Page (00:37):
Exactly. We are San Diegans. We say we love the
Padres, but we don't actuallyfollow the games.
Grant Oliphant (00:49):
We are San Diegans, so, of course, we love
the Padres, and we love the sunmore.
Crystal Page (00:56):
True. I think you're gonna win because I can't
come out anymore. So so
Grant Oliphant (01:00):
I'm not gonna win. It's easier when I'm in
response mode, but, you know,we're we're interviewing
somebody today who knows allabout this because he came up
with, the we are San Diegansmeme and, is one of the defining
people in San Diego. In fact, weshould do that one. We are San
(01:22):
Diegans, so, of course, weinterview
Crystal Page (01:26):
Ramel Wallace.
Grant Oliphant (01:27):
Alright. Well done. Yes. Okay. I love it.
So Ramel is an artist, activist,and community builder with deep
roots in San Diego. You mightrecognize him from his hip hop
storytelling or his role as thehost of Creative Mornings in San
Diego or from his video, WhereSan Diegans, which went viral on
(01:48):
Instagram. I don't think that'shappening with our versions of
that, but maybe. You never know.
Crystal Page (01:52):
I, if it doesn't happen, I'm gonna blame our
production assistant Tess.Because that just means we gotta
go viral.
Grant Oliphant (02:00):
Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. As a 4th
generation San Diegan, Ramel hasa deep passion for the city and
particularly the local creativecommunity. In a recent op ed in
the San Diego Union Tribune, hediscussed San Diego's creative
economy, touting Creative'seconomic impact, and their
growing diversity, and thechallenges that they face here,
(02:20):
particularly with the risingcost of living.
Ramel is also a grantee of FarSouth Border North, a city tied
regional collaborative thePrebys Foundation is a part of
that supports artists andcultural practitioners in
creating public awarenesscampaigns. His campaign, the
last black man in Barrio Logan,looks at Barrio Logan's rich
(02:43):
history rolling into the SouthBay, its current challenges, and
the significance of culturalpreservation. This is a this is
gonna be a fun interview.
Crystal Page (02:53):
And, you know, I've heard of Ramel for years.
We're really lucky that, ourengineer, Adam, has a connection
to Ramel, and he's like, yougotta check out this guy. And
personally, Grant, I've alwayswanted to go to creative
mornings, but it's in themorning, and I'm not a morning
person. Have you been?
Grant Oliphant (03:08):
I I have been to creative mornings in Pittsburgh,
but not in San Diego. And SanDiego has one of the largest
chapters in the world as we'llbe talking about.
Crystal Page (03:16):
Yeah. And I'm excited to hear your
conversation with Ramel becauseI feel like those who are in the
know about culture and arts hereare really in the know, but the
rest of us may not be as pluggedin. So I'm excited to see where
you take us on this.
Grant Oliphant (03:29):
Well and he it's partly where he'll take us. One
of the joys of interviewingsomebody like Ramel is he's got
creativity baked in, and heapproaches all of his work with
a creative bent. And, and I Ithink one of the one of the
reasons we really wanted to talkwith him was, aside from our
(03:50):
engineer Adam's connection, isthat this is a person who's
really looking at San Diego'sfuture through an arts and
creativity and diversity andfuturist lens that I think is
important to the future of thiscommunity. So I'm I'm looking
forward to talking to Ramelabout the things that we'll
(04:11):
touch on.
Crystal Page (04:12):
Yeah. Good luck in the interview. I'll see you
after.
Grant Oliphant (04:13):
Thank you. We'll talk afterwards. All Alright.
Ramel Wallace, I'm so delightedto have you on the program.
Thank you for being here.
Ramel Wallace (04:24):
Thank you for allowing me to be here. It's
it's fun to talk aboutcreativity.
Grant Oliphant (04:29):
Yeah. Well, I I I am I've been so looking
forward to this conversationbecause, in in the work that
I've seen of yours, the videosthat I've seen of yours, you
just radiate creativity, andyou're engaged in a lot of
interesting things here in SanDiego that I think we ought to
be talking about, so I'm lookingforward to this conversation.
You are an artist, an activist,a community builder, you blend a
(04:54):
lot of skills, and I think maybea place to begin is just talking
a little bit about you and whoyou are, so would you, describe
briefly for our audience, whatyou're concentrating your work
on right now?
Ramel Wallace (05:09):
That's a great way to put it. To describe
myself, I would have to say thatI'm my mama's son.
Grant Oliphant (05:15):
I love that
Ramel Wallace (05:16):
That's the best way to describe me, and I try to
look at creativity as a way tocare as in creativity and care
go hand in hand. And if youchoose to care, it's one of the
most creative things that youcan do. And so even when you're
in the act of creating, you aresitting with something and
(05:38):
you're intimate with that ideaor that pencil or that paper.
And so I just wanna remindpeople to have that intimacy
with their lives. I've been ahip hop artist for 15 plus years
and telling stories through thatoutlet. And that led me into
emceeing, like, the master ofceremonies. So now, hosting
(05:58):
creative mornings and givingpeople a platform to tell their
stories.
Grant Oliphant (06:04):
And I really wanna come back to the, to the
work that you're doing throughCreative Mornings, but I love
this idea of you're being yourmama's son. So is that did she
teach you that or model that?Oh, she modeled that.
Ramel Wallace (06:18):
Yeah. And she taught me without knowing that
she's teaching me. My mom's nameis Nia. And so that means
purpose. And so, I feel like I'mcompleting my mother's purpose
And that's to be withincommunity, that's to be a voice
for the community, and that's tolisten to people as much as I
can.
(06:38):
And if I have it correct, Nia isa holiday or one of the days of
Kwanzaa.
Grant Oliphant (06:45):
Mmm
Ramel Wallace (06:45):
And so it's literally about bringing
community together and speakingfor that voice. So, I'm walking
in that sense of I'm my mama'sson because I'm my mama's
purpose.
Grant Oliphant (06:56):
Yeah. I I actually got goosebumps when you
said that because I was thinkingabout the the foundation's theme
for our work for the year is allaround purpose, you know we have
this idea of communitywell-being, being anchored in a
sense of belonging, a sense ofopportunity, and then a sense of
purpose. How did you come by thepurpose of being an artist?
(07:21):
Because what your mama, I'msorry. I keep calling her your
mom like that.
Your mom. What your mom conveyedto you was a sense of purpose,
but how for you did that comeinto being as an artist?
Ramel Wallace (07:35):
I've always learned that you have to learn
to articulate yourself. And so,one of the the the things for my
company called the Holyfield,which is like the back end of
everything that I do,
They do the admin of, like, allthe artistry and, like, PR of
all the artistry that you see mein is artifacts articulate my
(07:57):
arteries.
And so I have to look at thebones and and the arteries and
the veins of myself andarticulate that and and turn it
into some sort of artifact. Andwhen I think about artifacts, I
think about the word art, and Ithink about something that's
like, very beautiful that youdiscover. So I try to implement
(08:20):
that into, the things that Icreate. And for me, that's the
foundation of what hip hop is.Mhmm.
If you look at the creation andthe history of how hip hop was
created, the fact that it cameafter the civil rights, it was a
way to tell stories for peopleto remember. And so, there's
(08:42):
something that's political aboutit. There's something that is
historical about it. There'ssomething that's cultural about
it. It's not just words to rhyme
Grant Oliphant (08:50):
Mhmm.
Ramel Wallace (08:51):
But finding a purpose behind why you're
telling your story so thatpeople can, can marinate on it.
Grant Oliphant (08:58):
Yeah. In your, in your we're San Diegans
videos, which which really tookoff online. You talk about
concepts that are familiar toeveryone, of course, around love
of tacos, and I I particularlylove the one about people who
(09:20):
are being born here not wantinganybody to know that, but but
you're also in a very wry kindof dry humor way, candid about
issues around race, and, and andhow San Diego does or doesn't
deal with those. Were thosethemes always evident in your
(09:41):
art, would you say?
Ramel Wallace (09:43):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. From from the jump, even, like,
learning about 5 Percenters frommy my step grandfather, that was
always implemented it intoeverything. You, like, you had
to have some sort ofeducational, portion of what
you're doing or there's not acomplete purpose.
Grant Oliphant (10:06):
I'm hoping that we're, going to get to play a
couple of those clips on air aspart of this podcast, but, I if
if we can't or even if we can,I'd love to hear how did you get
the idea for We're San Diegans,and and how did you get the
ideas for some of the themes?What were what were the ones
(10:27):
that were most important to you?
Ramel Wallace (10:29):
Well well, first off, I was just shopping for my
family. It was Christmas, and Iwas like, oh, there's this we're
sisters video Yeah. That'sreally popular. And I always see
trends as opportunities to, stepinto a dialogue. Mhmm.
And so this was a major trend,and a lot of people were
stepping into this dialogue. AndI know so much about San Diegans
(10:53):
and people from San Diego. I'vebeen here for 35 years. I can
point out a personality of a SanDiegan, and it is sort of, like,
dry. It's it hasn't beendocumented enough.
It's funny, and we really enjoyeach other. And the things that
stick out about that one to me,I don't know. Maybe the the how
(11:17):
we can spot someone that's inthe military.
Grant Oliphant (11:20):
Oh, I love that. Yes.
Ramel Wallace (11:22):
That one really resonated with people
Grant Oliphant: Where you comment that, we don't need (11:24):
undefined
to be told that you were in thewe know. Yeah. I think was was
what you something like that.
Ramel Wallace (11:29):
I Yeah. I think it was
like, you could probably beat meup right now. I don't I don't
wanna be I'm going to mind mywords.
Grant Oliphant (11:40):
Yeah. Yeah.
Ramel Wallace (11:41):
The tacos were a big thing. Yeah. But then, like,
you know, reminding people thatwe're right by the biggest cross
border in the world. How can wetalk about just the beaches? How
can we talk about just theweather when politically and
socially, we're part of one ofthe biggest narratives that are
going to be part of the electionthat are already part of our
(12:01):
lives.
How are we going to talk aboutthese concepts? I feel like you
have to mix them together. Youhave to weave something like
make that quilt of what is thereality of San Diego, like along
with the humor with someonethat's actually from San Diego,
like there's a differentperspective. And oddly enough,
(12:23):
it's not always heard from thenatives because you might get 10
people in a room and 2 peopleare going to be from San Diego.
And so for the more for for themost part, you hear from people
that are not San Diegans.
So as a San Diegan, and we havethis very unique perspective.
And a lot of times, we waste toomuch time trying to down people
(12:45):
that are not from San Diego.Right. Those people make San
Diego what it is because there'sa certain drive that, like,
Detroit might bring out here. Wegot people from St.
Louis, New York, like, all overthe world, Germany. Like, it's
so interesting that we get allthese stories, all these
perspectives from San Diego, andit expands our creativity when
(13:06):
we absorb all of these cultures.
Grant Oliphant (13:09):
Yeah. I'd as somebody who's a newcomer
myself, I've been here 2 yearsnow, I really appreciate that
appreciation, because I do thinkhaving lived in a community
where that sort of influx ofpeople was missing, it is part
of the special vibrancy of SanDiego that we have so many folks
from so many different places.But I also appreciate how you're
(13:31):
calling out the perspective ofpeople who were born and raised
here and know the communityintimately, and have seen it
change a lot. Something you saida moment ago, Ramel, about the
border really resonated for mebecause I we we are doing a lot
of work in thinking aboutborders and celebrating that as
(13:53):
part of our culture, but whatwe've noticed at the foundation
is that communicate that thatconversation doesn't always
happen naturally in thiscommunity. And here we are at
this amazing location, and andthe the confluence of people and
ideas and cultures that happenshere is part of our special
(14:15):
sauce, and it's hard and andit's not naturally or
organically part of theconversation about what we
celebrate.
So I I appreciated you drawingattention to it in those videos,
but why do you think we strugglewith it?
Ramel Wallace (14:31):
Oh, man. That's such a great question. I feel
like a lot of people go comeinto San Diego thinking about
what they've been told about itinstead of saying, let's
explore. Geographically, it'salso hard to move around San
Diego. I feel like we've beenone of the biggest affected
cities when it comes toredlining, when it comes to
(14:51):
gentrification, when it comes toseparation.
And we're still separated in alot of these ways. Like, I, I
really didn't get the full graspof how close the border was
until I moved down to nationalcity. Even having grown up in
like Barrio Logan, like movingdown to national city, like
(15:12):
you're entering the South Bay,the border starts to really come
to you
Grant Oliphant (15:16):
Yeah
Ramel Wallace (15:16):
And you're engulfed in those communities.
You're more surrounded. Theelote man is going down the
street and elote elote elotelove that. I love that.
It's happening. You're tastingnew foods. You're discovering
new cultures. You're getting newfriends and you're getting this
intimate perspective and whatthat proximity does with
intimate perspective. And bellhooks talks about it.
(15:38):
When you have an intimaterelationship, friendship with
someone you learn about theirculture differently, Like you
sit down and you have dinnerwith their families. Like, it's
a it's a different type ofperspective that you have, and
you really start to it reallystarts to enter your life when
you enter the South Bay.
Grant Oliphant (15:58):
This is such a powerful concept, and I'm, you
know, I'm thinking about how Ihave grown to really love this
community over the course of thepast 2 years, and the reasons
for that have deepened over the2 years. You know, I had one set
of reasons when I arrived here.Some of them might have had to
(16:19):
do about with weather, whichturned out to be a lie or
slightly misleading.
Ramel Wallace (16:26):
Right.
Grant Oliphant (16:26):
But I you know, they've deepened over time, and
I I think so often what we fallin love with with play about
places is superficial, and whatyou're describing is the whole
process of coming into deeperrelationship. Is is that how you
think about your art?
Ramel Wallace (16:44):
Yeah. It's an opportunity to be intimate with
myself, my experiences, and toget in touch with them because I
love how you said that. Yeah.There's a superficial, there's a
superficial view that peoplefall in love with. I feel like
there is media that PR SanDiego, like, it gets dropped a
(17:07):
lot in the media or someonemight spin a globe around and
stop and say, oh, I'm gonna moveto San Diego.
And and it becomes that placewhere you escape. Yeah. And then
San Diego was this peoplepleaser as well. Like, it gives
you everything.
Grant Oliphant (17:22):
Yeah.
Ramel Wallace (17:22):
And, my stepfather, he's from New York,
and he explained it to me, like,you know what? San Diego is also
easy to live in. It's not justweather, and that's nice, but
you don't have to, you know,start your car, like, 40 minutes
before when it's the wintertime,and you can just hop in your car
and go drive somewhere. Sothere's a simplicity that I
(17:45):
understand why people fall inlove with, but there's also,
more than that. And I encouragepeople to do that and to look,
look at their relationship in acreative way to San Diego,
because there's so much morehere than what they tell you.
Grant Oliphant (18:00):
Yeah. And that and it's so clear in your We Are
San Diegans videos that that'sthe story you're you're telling,
because it touches on all of it.Right? I mean you've got the
things that people have in theirminds, and then you go from
there. What is it like to be anartist in San Diego?
Let's talk about that. You talkabout creativity a lot, it's the
(18:24):
focus of your work. It's whatdrives your work. But what is it
like to be an artist here?
Ramel Wallace (18:31):
I think that it's hard because for anybody that's
in San Diego, it's hard to livebecause it's so expensive. And
as the artist, you're alwayslooking for, you know, say the
payout or the grant or the albumthat's gonna lead you to success
so that you can survive here. Igot 2 bags on me. I got 2
(18:55):
laptops. I'm coming off a Googlemigration at work.
I'm thinking about creativethings. I'm working on a gallery
called Black Barrio Logan. Andso,
Grant Oliphant (19:05):
You have some, some stuff going on.
Ramel Wallace (19:07):
Yeah. There's a and and I'm just a reflection of
all these artists that havestuff going on. They're trying
to think about ways to survive,and they're trying to think
about paying rent. And socreativity goes into that as
well. Not we're not justcreative in the sense of we can
make a mural really good, butcreativity in the sense of
(19:30):
survival is something that wepractice in San Diego.
Grant Oliphant (19:35):
I, Ramel, I so appreciate that connection of
creativity to survival becauseyou hear about that a lot from
artists, but the idea of havingto apply your creative skills to
the to the process of justmaking ends meet. I actually
think that was in the We Are SanDiegans video as well. The you
know, the idea of of how closeartists are at any one moment
(19:59):
to, to being in desperatestraits. Oh, I forgot about
Ramel Wallace (20:04):
that part. It was such a natural thing that I just
was speaking from my experience.But, yeah, I was like, we we're
nice to the homeless because oneday we might be them. That's
what you
Grant Oliphant (20:16):
yeah. It was, well, and and I you know what?
Again, what I what I appreciatedabout that whole approach is how
you you knitted together thethings you see. Oh, and as
somebody who's seen thiscommunity through, through,
experienced eyes for a longtime. So thank you for that.
(20:37):
I I may come back to thatbecause it's just I I just think
it's fabulous, but, let's talkabout some of your other work.
You're the head of somethingcalled Creative Mornings here,
and tell us a little bit aboutthat organization, What's
important to it and to you inthat work.
Ramel Wallace (20:57):
I am the host. I'm so humbled by being the host
of creative mornings isbasically, it's a global
conversation and it's thebiggest breakfast lecture series
in the world. And so we're inabout 67 countries. There are
200 plus chapters around theworld. So if you go into any
(21:19):
major city, there's going to bea creative mornings.
That's going to be a lectureevery last Friday of the month.
There's going to be free coffeeand free donuts, and there's
going to be a community that isvery receptive. I just so happen
to be the host of creativemornings in San Diego. And it's
the 8th biggest chapter in theworld. And it's been an amazing
(21:42):
experience just to heardifferent creative people's
stories and to expand anddiversify that community itself
so that it sees creativity inall these ways that, I've been
had, that I've been able to,experience for myself.
Grant Oliphant (22:00):
Now it's open to anybody. Right? Can anybody
Ramel Wallace (22:03):
Anybody can go is free. Yeah. But I I'd be telling
people to just go. Don't even ifyou don't register, show up.
Grant Oliphant (22:13):
That's okay. You heard it here, folks, from the
host. How do you think how doyou think that San Diego came to
have the 8th largest chapter ofcreative mornings in the world?
That's extraordinary. I mean,we're the we're we're we're the
8th largest city or so inAmerica, but the 8th largest
(22:35):
chapter in the world is prettysignificant.
How did that happen?
Ramel Wallace (22:39):
Shout out to Nate and shout out to grizzly, which
is his design and branding firmthat ended up getting really big
after the pandemic. WithoutNate, without Grizzly, Creative
Mornings would not be where itis today.
Grant Oliphant (22:55):
And can you quickly tell us who Nate is for
the audience's sake?
Ramel Wallace (22:58):
Yes. Nate is the original host of Creative
Mornings. He started it out herein San Diego, and he ran that,
from 2,000, I want to say 15 to2020. And I took over in 2021
until now. And so he laid thefoundation, he used his
community.
He, he used that idea of thisloneliness epidemic, the fact
(23:23):
there's that there are so manycreatives in San Diego and that
branding has a strong hold onSan Diego and telling stories.
He it's just something that he'sreally good at.
Grant Oliphant (23:37):
Yeah. And and how did you come into the role?
How did you succeed him?
Ramel Wallace (23:43):
I showed up. I showed up. I I remember I went
to my first creative mornings,maybe 2016, and I would just
follow the free food. So I saidfree coffee, free donuts. I'm
there.
You ain't even gonna say nothingelse. And I showed up and it was
an amazing community. I heard areally good lecture. They
dropped nuggets that I couldapply to my life. And I said
(24:04):
that I wanted to be a part ofthis.
And I think I did a postafterwards that said it was like
me with some coffee or somedonuts that said, oh, I want to
talk at the next creativemornings, but really the work in
just showing up and buildingcommunity is what got me into
hosting. And I was also aspeaker in 2017, And, I changed
(24:27):
the format and kind of called itout for, you know, being a white
space.
Grant Oliphant (24:32):
Mhmm.
Ramel Wallace (24:32):
And that there's so many other forms of
creativity that aren't beingacknowledged. And so, I think
that you can step into spaces,but still, you know, notice that
there can be a change there. AndI think there's a boldness that
people really respect when youdo that. And so, it was
(24:54):
relationships and it was,speaking my truth.
Grant Oliphant (24:58):
Yeah. Say more about that if you would for a
moment about changing theformat. What how did you decide
that you wanted to do itdifferently?
Ramel Wallace (25:08):
I've had so many conversations with random people
on the street that have beenlife changing conversations in
homes that have been lifechanging. I would say around
2015, there was a certain formatthat Ted talk would kind of use.
(25:28):
You could even just look at thehand gestures and say, I kinda
know where this speech is going.And my talk was not like that. I
went to the stage like a WWFwrestler.
I had everybody stand up andeverything, and it was a little
chaotic, but enough to groundpeople
Grant Oliphant (25:50):
Mhmm.
Ramel Wallace (25:50):
To know that this is
Grant Oliphant (25:52):
Different.
Ramel Wallace (25:52):
This is different right here, but I'm still
receptive to it, and it's usingelements that I haven't seen and
talking about, race in thisdiplomatic way
Grant Oliphant (26:03):
Yeah.
Ramel Wallace (26:03):
That's still bold and creative and telling people
that they have the ability tochange.
Grant Oliphant (26:11):
So what do you look for in now that you're the
host, what do you look for inspeakers?
Ramel Wallace (26:16):
I mostly look for speakers that align with the
theme. Each month has its owntheme, and then someone that has
been, that has something comingup. Because I work in PR. I have
a, PR kind of background. And soit's really good to line things
up.
Like you don't want something tohappen and then you don't have
(26:38):
say like a, a show or a gallerycoming up or maybe something to
buy afterwards. So look atpeople's trajectory and when
their projects are coming outand try to help them with that
with that launch. But in a senseof, you know, who's really
creative, we're looking at, ateverything like your presence on
(27:00):
social media. We're looking atthe artwork that you create, and
we're looking at theconversations that we're
missing.
Grant Oliphant (27:07):
Oh, interesting. So one of your themes for
creative mornings is thateveryone is creative. Yes. And
you're looking for speakers whoembody that in multiple ways.
Ramel Wallace (27:17):
Multiple ways.
Grant Oliphant (27:18):
And you hope that they will convey to people
in the audience ways in whichthey can be creative in their
own lives. Is that right?
Ramel Wallace (27:25):
Yes.
Grant Oliphant (27:25):
Yeah. It's a, my my experience with creative
mornings in other places hasbeen, that it does that well.
And so hats off to you for whatyou're trying to do. Do you
think, you have this big chapterin San Diego. Do you think the
message is getting out there?
Ramel Wallace (27:46):
Yeah. The message is it's it's wild to see that
this space has changed and alsokept a lot of its original
elements. But I see the changein the conversations that we
have with the people that are,that are there. They're like,
this feels different. Like I'mhearing different voices.
(28:06):
One of my favorite ones is therewas a, a death doula named
Sarah. She came and spoke. Mhmm.And a lot of people haven't even
heard of what a death doula is,but they guide you through that
process of death. Mhmm.
And she's telling this story,and I kid you not the room,
everybody crying in the room. Idon't think I besides, like,
funerals, like, I ain't been ina joy, like, cry. Like, this was
(28:31):
an experience. This wasspiritual. Wow. Wow.
And she was showing us theprocess of her father
transitioning, but also bringingin all these creative things
that he loved, the books that heloved, the colors that he loved,
the things that he fell in lovewith, the the artwork that was
created, these artifacts, theseartifacts of his life,
Grant Oliphant (28:53):
Right
Ramel Wallace (28:53):
so we were seeing that, oh, this is also why we
love things and we want toremember them. And so, people
coming up to me and andreassuring that, oh, wow. That
just happened.
Grant Oliphant (29:09):
Yeah. Powerful, powerful stuff. Are there any
other talks that stand out toyou in that fashion?
Ramel Wallace (29:16):
Oh, DaShay's talk stands out in another fashion,
where DaShay is a a long friend,she's a DJ, and she just did a
really cool talk. And then atthe end of it, because it was
her birthday, we saw the, the,the black happy birthday, But it
was so joyous. It was justridiculous. I was like, who
(29:38):
noticed the black happybirthday? And then my friend
came out and she sang itbeautifully.
And so we were able to show abunch of white folks, like
Grant Oliphant (29:47):
Doing the
Ramel Wallace (29:48):
yes. Yes. Doing a good because we got a bunch of
black folks that day doing agood happy birthday. So, you
know, shout out to StevieWonders.
Grant Oliphant (29:55):
And before we move on from that, so who
typically comes? You saidanybody. Every everybody's
invited, but is it is ittypically a young crowd?
Typically, you know, what whatwhat's the composition of the
group?
Ramel Wallace (30:07):
Yeah. I would say, like, creatives come, like,
a lot of people that do graphicdesign, that are in video, a lot
of people that are, say,freelancers come, poets come,
the thread that I really see arestorytellers, people that wanna
tell some sort of story or getto know how to tell a story
(30:27):
better because they may have abrand, a product, something that
they've created, and they wannabe able to tell that story of
what that product or brand is.Yeah. Maybe there's, like, 18 to
40 that go. And, yeah, it's ait's a it's a lot of variety of
(30:48):
people.
Grant Oliphant (30:50):
I, I think what you're doing is for people who
are looking for sources to feedthat engine of creativity or
just to get back in touch withit. You're providing such a
powerful service, so thank youfor for that. I I I feel like I
wouldn't be doing you justicethough if, if I didn't also
mention the other hats you wear.So you mentioned the Holyfield,
(31:15):
your that's your that's sort ofyour backbone business that you
use to stay alive as an artist.And or, and then, you are also,
affiliated with the San DiegoAfrican American Museum of Fine
Art.
Yes. Tell us a little bit aboutwhat you do there.
Ramel Wallace (31:33):
I'm on the board, and I do a lot of their
marketing. I help them withtheir website, and I get the
word out about what they'redoing. And one of the missions
is to preserve black culture. Sothat's kind of become, I guess,
gas in my engine for anythingthat I do, whether it's the holy
field or whether it's creativemornings, I wanna be able to
(31:54):
preserve black culture. Rightnow, we have a Kehinde Wiley
piece in, Balboa Park, And so Ihelp them talk about these
things, I help them curateevents, and, yeah.
Grant Oliphant (32:08):
Do you
see, black culture as threatenedor imperiled in San Diego in any
way?
Ramel Wallace (32:15):
Without a doubt.
Grant Oliphant (32:16):
Yeah. Can you say more about that?
Ramel Wallace (32:18):
But my passion is always twisted around towards important things need to be
talked about.And a lot of black culture is not actually talked about and
so to to preserve things for
everyone's sake, you have topreserve black culture. Like,
the preservation of blackculture is a reminder to
(32:41):
preserve all these othercultures. And, it it is at at
risk and at threat. There's awar on DEI.
There's a war on wokeness.There's a war on all these words
that represent a differentversion of my culture.
Grant Oliphant (32:56):
Yeah. Yeah.
Ramel Wallace (32:57):
And so, yeah, there is a threat, but my focus
is, it just needs to bepreserved.
Grant Oliphant (33:05):
Right. Yeah. And I I I I I it just strikes me
you're you, mentioning theattack on wokeness. It's so true
that it enjoyed about ananosecond as a as actually a
word of praise in the blackcommunity for people who sort of
got got it. And and all of asudden, in an, you know, in the
(33:29):
blink of an eye, it was co optedas an attack.
And so I I think it's importantfor people to hold what you're
talking about when you'retalking about, the threat on
Black culture. That it's notsimply a numbers game or
demographics in San Diego. It'sit's also about where we are
culturally in terms of aligningwith those values.
Ramel Wallace (33:52):
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And especially
looking at, looking at numbers.
Grant Oliphant (33:57):
Mhmm.
Ramel Wallace (33:57):
You never want the people that are, the
minorities to be, takenadvantage of.
Grant Oliphant (34:07):
Right.
Ramel Wallace (34:07):
You never want the the powerless to be taken
advantage of. That's not a goodway to build a foundation for
society.
Grant Oliphant (34:14):
Right. Well, and I think I think what we
fundamentally know in our in ourbetter moments, especially in a
place like San Diego, is that weare made better by this mix of
people. And so if that is true,then we wanna hold on to the
strengths of all of them. And Ithink that's why the concept of
(34:36):
belonging has been so centralfor the Prebys Foundation that
we just see that as so importantto the narrative of the future
of the country, and that SanDiego is probably better
equipped as a community to tellit than any other place.
Ramel Wallace (34:52):
That's right. That's right.
Grant Oliphant (34:54):
So you also since we're on that subject, you
also, are affiliated with BAM.
Ramel Wallace (35:03):
Oh, yeah. BAM. Yes.
Grant Oliphant (35:05):
So tell me tell me about that too.
Ramel Wallace (35:08):
BAM is a PR marketing firm. And so they're
adjacent to the tech industry.And we basically get people
published in differentpublications. So it might be
Forbes, it might be Inc, and I'mthe senior community manager.
So, I'm so happy that I've beenable to kinda fuse my life into
(35:29):
things that kinda work togetherbecause the fact that I'm at
Bam, I can be here on, like, a aweekday. Yeah. And, yeah, I like
the idea of of, you know,technology. AI is coming around.
How's that gonna affectcreativity?
And I think it's smart to reallylearn how technology works and
(35:51):
also this VC world works. Cause,you know, Prebys Foundation is
giving so much opportunity andand so many funds to people that
are doing amazing things andgiving a voice to people in San
Diego. But then there's alsothis VC world that's giving out,
funding and things,
Grant Oliphant: Huge money. Huge money. (36:08):
undefined
Ramel Wallace (36:09):
and it's like, oh, wow. Yeah. How does it work?
How can I take some elementsfrom here and apply it to what
I'm doing as well? Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (36:16):
Well, it's fascinating. I'm I said you wear
many hats, but what is reallyinteresting is how you thread
them together, and it's allaround that, it's around
creativity, and it's aroundcommunity. So, I I just I think
you're leading a veryinteresting life.
Ramel Wallace (36:35):
Oh, thank you. Thank you.
Grant Oliphant (36:37):
I, so what are you what projects are are most
interesting to you right now? Iknow, you know, you were
selected, as an artist for FarSouth Border North, which is an
individual artist program thatthe foundation also supported.
Tell us about that project andwhat got you into it.
Ramel Wallace (36:59):
What got me into that project, being a part of
the San Diego African AmericanMuseum of Fine Art. They, they
give me so much information ingame and and, they let me know
about things that are happeningbecause sometimes you have to
dig for information. And so I'mso grateful that I was
(37:21):
introduced to that grant. Andwhat I'm working on with that
grant is a gallery called blackBarrio Logan. Before the where
San Diegans video, I did a videocalled the last black man in
barrio Logan.
And that was me telling my storyabout my great grandma moving
from Pensacola, Florida toBarrio Logan in the sixties. And
(37:44):
not only did she live there, butmy grandma lived there too. And
my aunt lived there and my momlived there and my dad lived
there and I grew up there when Iwas young as well, and we didn't
own this house. So the bigcoincidence was why did we all
live there? And that was becauseof redlining.
(38:08):
And that was because of, youknow, government sanctions and
and real estate agents and banksworking together. And so I was
telling that story and thatvideo went super viral and I
started to dig deeper into whatthat story was and that led me
into the, that led me intodiscovering that Barrio Logan
(38:29):
was once a black neighborhood.And so documenting what that
looks like, that's part of theblack Barrio Logan experience.
And so I step into it where youtake my point of view. I had a
gallery called the church inBarrio Logan from 2014 to 2018,
(38:49):
and I was also living downthere.
I was discovering this storythat my family didn't have a
sense of pride in because therewas this hidden discrimination
of just that's the only place wecould live.
Grant Oliphant (39:04):
Right. And
Ramel Wallace (39:04):
so I was discovering this history and
kind of turning that, thatmonster into a masterpiece. Like
how can I flip this story andlearn more about it? And so, I
learned about, the blackcommunity that was in downtown
and the Douglas and the Harlemof the west, and then how people
(39:25):
ended up migrating to BarrioLogan and how that pink church
is was a black Baptist churchand black folks built that
church. And so, not only talkingabout the black history, but
it's called black barrio Logan.It's all of those words.
What does that proximity do whenyou can have that intimate
(39:45):
conversation and relationshipand proximity to the Mexican and
Hispanic community? What doesthat look like as well? And so I
take pictures from the church.We're gonna take pictures from
other times as well and give youthat experience as well as a
conversation about housing andredlining and why San Diego is
(40:08):
shaped like this. Right.
Right. It's gonna be a future iscolor. And I think by the time
that this is out, it's it'sgonna be just open and probably
until the end of summer.
Grant Oliphant (40:19):
Yeah. This is this is an amazing story. I I
mean, certainly, some of thethemes that you touch on,
Justin, what you outlined, youknow, people do need to know and
understand the extent to whichredlining was a significant
force in shaping the history ofthis community. And it's
(40:40):
fascinating to understand thegenesis of a neighborhood and
who lived there before. Thepeople who live there now live
there.
I'm curious, as an artist, whenyou're doing a project like
that, are you trying to justtell a story or are you thinking
about what you want people totake away from it?
Ramel Wallace (41:01):
Stepping into it, I feel like I I want people to
take away a certain thing fromit, but then I try to remove
that because I can't controlthat.
so I try to tell the story asaccurately and as creative. And
as from my perspective, alongwith, David Colon, he's a
(41:22):
photographer I'm working withour 2 perspectives and then
really, document and then askpeople, what is what is this for
you?
Grant Oliphant (41:32):
Yeah.
Ramel Wallace (41:32):
Because when I did that viral video, the last
black man in Barrio Logan, I wastelling my story, but it was so
many other people's storiesthat, I was humbled by that. And
that's one of the biggestexperiences. How are other
people gonna gonna interpretthis, and how can it affect and
(41:52):
change their lives?
Grant Oliphant (41:54):
I like that methodology because I think that
so often when we set out to tellpeople what they should know or
think, that's not what they endup knowing or thinking because
because that's not how theyreceive the message. But when
you simply tell a story aboutyour own experience and make it
(42:14):
open enough that others can addtheir own stories to it, then it
takes off or can, I think? Andthat's what you experienced
here. Is that a fair descriptionof what happened?
Ramel Wallace (42:24):
That's a fair description of what's happening.
And it and it makes me think ofsomething like like DEI. Where
one of the things that you do isyou you you use I statements.
Mhmm. You talk from yourperspective because you can't
really control anybody else'sand you don't know anybody
else's perspective.
So we've been taking thissomething that we might apply to
(42:46):
minorities, but saying, like,oh, no. This using these points
of view can help us withcommunication.
Grant Oliphant (42:53):
Yeah. So let's go back to your mom for a moment
and her the lesson she taughtyou which you internalized. The
Prebys Foundation has, Imentioned earlier, has adopted
this idea for our work of howhow we wanna work in a space
(43:13):
that ultimately is about, a agood and healthy community. So
community well-being is how werefer to it. It's kind of a
health mindset, but at acommunity level.
And part of what we believe isthat, communities are healthy
when the people inside themreally feel like they belong
(43:35):
there, regardless of who theyare. And when the people who are
in that community feel that theycan be successful in some way,
shape, or form at whatever it isthey wanna do. They can feed
their families. They can enjoy adecent life. That's opportunity.
And then and then maybe thepinnacle of it all is that they
(43:57):
can find their unique lifepurpose in that community. You
know, this is a place where itmay not it may not do it for
them, but it will it will enablethem, empower them to find that
sense of purpose that drivesthem in their lives. As you
think back on what you've justdescribed with the work that
you're doing, how are art howcan I wanna connect what you're
(44:21):
doing as an artist with withwhat I just described? Well,
first of all, I should ask you asimple question. Does all of
that resonate for you?
Ramel Wallace (44:32):
That's a that's a good question. That I'm trying
to catch it. I'm trying to catchall of the ones. Because what
you talked about, my mom Yeah.And, what she would always tell
me is that, you know, a mouthcan say anything.
(44:52):
It's what you have to do. Whatyou have to do is look at
people's actions. And socreativity is like the
foundation of a lot of people'spotential actions. You have to
see what they, what they create,and it can be a safe space when
you go out there and createamongst other people.
Grant Oliphant (45:12):
Right.
Ramel Wallace (45:13):
But one of the, the main things that I really
get is a framework. When I'mworking with the museum, I get a
framework of how things can bepictured. And look, when I'm
talking to my mom, I get aframework of how I can move
through life through someonethat loves me. What does love
look like when I'm, when I'mhere at the podcast, I get a
(45:33):
framework of what this lookslike the waters that are here,
the papers that are around. Alot of us don't have frameworks
even for health.
And so when it comes tocreativity, you are articulating
who you are. You're building aframework for yourself. It's so
hard to see the self. Sometimesyou have to create the self in
(45:56):
order to see the self in orderto care about the self in order
to say, I don't feel good orthis air does not feel right
where I'm at or something's notright. Right.
You need a framework that hashas said those things or
articulated it before and saidthat it's okay.
Grant Oliphant (46:17):
There's so much in that statement. I mean, it's
incredibly powerful concept.Part of what comes up for me is
just, yeah, we have to helppeople be able to have the
structures and the language thatallows them to enter into the
work you're describing. But I'malso taking that, from this
conversation, the centrality ofcreativity in the future of this
(46:42):
community. You know, I think Ithink what I believe and now
wanna talk about more is thatthe future of San Diego really
does hinge on unleashing thecreativity that is here more.
And I so appreciate the work.That's what I see you doing. And
I it's why I think we wanted tohave you on this podcast. And, I
(47:08):
I just so appreciate yourefforts to make San Diego the
creative engine that it can be.So, Ramel, if, folks who are
listening want to connect withBlack Barrio Logan, where how
how can
Ramel Wallace (47:21):
they do it? You can check out Future is Color.
It's just gonna be on the walls.It's right there on Lowrider
Lane, and it will be therehopefully until the end of
summer.
Grant Oliphant (47:33):
Fantastic. Alright. Future is color. Future
is color. Love it.
Thank you for being with us.
Ramel Wallace (47:39):
Thank you so much. Thank you. I appreciate
it. I loved your questions, andI'm taking notes on how to be a
better interviewer.
Grant Oliphant (47:46):
Oh, you're great. I will take that as the
ultimate compliment, Ramel.Thank you.
Ramel Wallace (47:51):
Thank you.
Crystal Page (47:55):
So much to think about from that episode.
Grant Oliphant (47:56):
Goodness. Yes.
Crystal Page (47:58):
So I I need a little help. So k. Ramel talked
about artifacts articulate myarteries.
Grant Oliphant (48:04):
Oh, you would start with with the easy
concept, wouldn't you? Yeah.Yeah. So your question is, what
was he driving at?
Crystal Page (48:11):
Yeah. Break it down for me.
Grant Oliphant (48:12):
That's Well, you know, I can do my I can do my
version. I I think I think thiswas really an important
perspective from an artist,because I think what he was
saying is there are there are somany passions and forces that
shape our lives, from thehistorical to the systemic to
(48:35):
the spiritual, you know all ofthat, and I think those are the
arteries for him. But then tomake them manifest, you know to
bring them into the world sothat we have clarity about them,
that's the role in many ways ofart, and so artifacts become a
way of expressing these theseotherwise very almost ethereal
(48:58):
things. And for an artist, forhim as an artist, become a way
of bringing into the room andinto the conversation this
deeper understanding of theworld that's happening in the
background all the time. That'swhat I interpreted it as, and I
does that resonate with you?
Crystal Page (49:16):
I think it does. I used to do a training, for
communications, entry levelfolks, and I'd say, I want you
to look back and think about allthe the cookie crumbs you're
gonna leave behind, because allof those things really are a
reflection of who we are as aculture. Or you think about an
AP history test where you haveto analyze an old commercial and
write about it. And and I thinkthat there is that element. But
(49:39):
for him, it just felt so deeplypersonal.
What what did you take away interms of, how he lives that
creativity? Like, it just seemsso deep, I I felt.
Grant Oliphant (49:50):
Well, again, you know, an expression of I I I a
line that I use a lot, almost asa joke, but that lots of people
use is everything is a metaphor.And, you know, there this is
this is something that we allhave accessible to us at any
moment in our own expression ofcreativity. If we think about
(50:11):
what are the things I'm doing,what are the things I'm
thinking, what are the thingsI'm expressing, or what is this
event or or thing that'shappening in my life? What does
it stand for for me? And justthat process of stepping back
and reflecting on what somethingrepresents, I think again is the
role of the artist.
It, it it helps us see thedeeper meaning behind, everyday
(50:36):
life that otherwise feelsoverwhelming and pressing in all
the time. You know, what struckme in a just to leap off of that
point for a moment in thisinterview well, there's so much
that struck me in thisinterview. But one of the things
that struck me was just the thebread and butter reality of
being an artist in San Diego.You know, it is it is, hard, and
(51:01):
Ramel, demonstrates that withoutcomplaining by having multiple
businesses and multiple hats,even as he pursues his
creativity. And that we hearthat from artists a lot in San
Diego.
Crystal Page (51:15):
It makes me think of when you spoke with Phylicia
Shaw. Right? We talk about the,nobility of the struggle, but
it's like, no. You know,sometimes you see people
juggling 3 or 5 things, andmaybe it's because they love it,
but it's also because they needto survive.
Grant Oliphant (51:29):
Exactly. Yeah.
Crystal Page (51:31):
And the fact that he just seems to also radiate
joy while trying to juggle 5things and while trying to
express and connect, For me,that's really inspiring, but
what did you take
Grant Oliphant (51:43):
I'd I'd exactly the same thing. You know, I I he
clearly, has a love of SanDiego, and a joy about life, and
a joy about about what he getwhat he does, and a joy about
living in this place. I thinkthough if you if you really look
at the, you know, we're from SanDiego, so we meme, theirs are
(52:10):
they're very dry and rye in someways too. And there's there are
serious messages that comethrough here.
And what I hear him saying inthat venue, much the same as he
did in this interview, is thathe, he loves this place and it
could be better, you know. Itcan like any community, there
are ways in which it can improveby looking at tough parts of its
(52:35):
history, or looking at certainbehaviors, not ones that we joke
about, you know, with the tacos,and the and the french fries,
and, you know, it's it's moreabout, you know, composition of
the community and how how thecommunity behaves.
Crystal Page (52:53):
Yeah. That I think what you're saying there really
resonates with me because eventhough my family is from here, I
did not realize how black BarrioLogan had been at some point. So
the fact that he is using hisfar south border north work to
express this and
Ramel Wallace (53:11):
Yeah.
Crystal Page (53:11):
Talk about redlining and things that I
think I don't think it's evenmalicious on a lot of folks'
parts. I think we just don'tknow this history. Right? So
he's unearthing this thing thatI'm excited to see this summer.
Grant Oliphant (53:24):
Yeah. I'd it's a funny thing about being human.
We tend to imagine that theworld was always like the way we
find it, And, you know, we seeBarrio Logan actually going
through changes today, but thisisn't the first time that the
community has faced change, andwhere it's demography and makeup
(53:46):
has faced tensions andpressures. I think that was a
beautiful part of the story thathe was that he that he's telling
through this project. I alsolove the fact that he's using
far south border north as thecontext for that, because what
could easily get lost in in thatframing is the narrative of the
(54:10):
multiple, ethnicities and racesthat make up this particular
community.
And this is an extra I've I'vesaid this before. It's amazing
to me coming in from the outsideas I did a couple of years ago.
One of the incredible strengthsof San Diego is this wealth of
diverse peoples who all meet upin this one place, as I like to
(54:36):
say between the desert and thesea. You know, we just really
have this magical spot. And heis using the occasion of the far
south border north piece tocelebrate an often forgotten
chapter in that in thatnarrative.
Crystal Page (54:54):
And I realize, Grant, you and I know what Far
South Border North is. Maybe ifyou're an artist or a grantee,
you might know. What is FarSouth Border North?
Grant Oliphant (55:03):
Yeah. Far South Border North was, a, a a project
started by, the county and andartists in this community, in
response to a challenge from thestate, that was really designed
to support the work ofindividual artists in
(55:24):
California. That, by the way, isa very visionary program because
California, more than almost anyother state in the union,
depends heavily on creativityfor its economic growth and
vitality and image, Andcelebrating individual artists,
I think is a really criticalpart of that. So Far South
Border North was our particularprogram in this in in San Diego
(55:50):
to celebrate individual artistsas part of that program. It was
funded, in part by the state,and also by the Conrad Prebys
Foundation, which we were veryproud to do because we just see
the role of artists as beingincredibly integral to the the
(56:11):
path that this community is on.
Crystal Page (56:15):
With what you're saying with the the city and
with the state, I guess I don'talways appreciate government's
role in advancing art andsomeone like Ramel really
digging in on how do I connectpeople based on the history and
the connections. But this otherconnection I noticed you and
Rommel had in the interview, Youseem to really brighten up when
(56:39):
he talked about his mom andYeah. His mom's purpose. Will
will you say some say more aboutthat?
Grant Oliphant (56:44):
Well, you know, I brightened up a lot when I was
talking with Ramel because he'sjust one of these people who has
kind of an you you mentionedthis. He's got kind of this
infectious joy about him. So, itis fun to talk to him even as he
makes you think and gives youpause. But I just really loved
the story he shared of being, ashe referenced it, his mama's
(57:10):
son. And, I mean, he got me socaught up in it.
I started referring to hismother as his mama, and it just
it was so natural, in in how heorients himself in the world.
And his mother's name is Nia,which he shared with us, is
means purpose. And he seeshimself as carrying forward in
(57:35):
some ways her purpose in theworld that he gets to be an
extension of of that legacy. AndI thought that was incredibly
powerful. You know, there was anhonoring of ancestry there, and
also a tapping into this reallydeeply resonant idea that we we
(57:57):
are at our best when we have apurpose in life, you know, when
we have a reason that we'repursuing, the activities we're
pursuing the world and thatanimates us.
And I think that came out of thestory with his mom.
Crystal Page (58:12):
I mean, I I guess the more I think about that,
right, he's living his mother'spurpose, that extension. Like,
do you feel like we as SanDiegans are living the living
out the purpose of those whocame before us?
Grant Oliphant (58:25):
Well, I I think if I put wrap all of this in a
neat bow, you know, here's andyou know the filter I see San
Diego through and the work ofphilanthropy through. I think
what Ramel is saying through hiscombination of wit and humor and
insight and truth telling andstorytelling is that San Diego
is this amazing dynamic placeand it can do even better and
(58:48):
greater things in the world thanthan we imagine are possible
right now. That's what webelieve, and I I think that's
what he is what he is tappinginto through his work. You know,
a couple of thoughts that Ithink were really important for,
for takeaways in terms ofphilanthropy, one was, where he
(59:09):
talked about how trends are areopportunities to step into
dialogue, and he really spokeabout the importance of
conversation, the importance ofengaging with people, the
importance of meeting peoplewhere they are. And I think
there if there is a message thatour society generally, not just
this community, but everycommunity in the United States
(59:30):
of America needs right now,that's that's a resonant message
that we should all be payingattention to.
The other thing that he saidthat was magical for me was that
caring is creativity, you know,that we the way in which whoever
we are, if we think of ourselvesas an artist or not, when we
step into caring for other humanbeings, we are being creative
(59:54):
human beings. That that feltbeautiful to me.
Crystal Page (59:57):
Yeah. That stood out to me. It gave me pause just
because I think when I'm in ahurry or I don't have a chance
to connect with folks, I'm like,save the creativity for later.
Right? Like, do my to do list.
But if that's the lens I'mapproaching the world and
approaching San Diego or evenapproaching our work with, I
think it changes like, what whatI got from Ramel and your
(01:00:17):
conversation with him is alsojust the ability to focus in on
creativity as a bridge betweenpeople. And so, yeah, I gotta
sit with that.
Grant Oliphant (01:00:27):
Yeah. Well, I you know, we tend to we tend to
privilege the word creativity inthe same way we privilege the
word leadership. You know, wethink of leaders as the people
standing in front of the room.We think of creatives as the
artist painting at an easel, oror writing the script for the TV
show, and and in Ramel's case,it's true. But but for both of
(01:00:54):
those words actually signifyvery common, widely distributed
human talents that we all havethe opportunity to exercise in
some way, and I think what Ramelwas asking us to tap into was
being creative, and being aleader through being creative,
And that was a pretty coolchallenge.
(01:01:14):
And it's actually a challengethat we all I don't care what
walk of life you're in, or whatrole or title you think you
have, or how fancy it is or notfancy. That's a message you
could take home.
Crystal Page (01:01:28):
Let's end there. Ding ding ding.
Grant Oliphant (01:01:30):
Alright. Beautiful. Thank you. Crystal,
it's a joy.
Crystal Page (01:01:34):
Thank you, Grant.
Grant Oliphant (01:01:36):
This is a production of the Prebys
Foundation, hosted by GrantOliphant, and co hosted by
Krystal Page. The program is coproduced by Crystal Page and
Adam Greenfield, and it'sengineered by Adam Greenfield.
Production assistance isprovided by Tess Karesky. And
(01:01:58):
our new theme song is by misterLyrical Groove, a local San
Diego artist. Download episodesat your favorite podcatcher or
visit us at stop and talkpodcast.org.
If you like this show, and wereally hope you do, the best way
to support it is to share,subscribe, and review our
(01:02:21):
podcast. Thank you for yoursupport, your ideas, and most of
all, for listening. This programhas been recorded at The Voice
of San Diego
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