Episode Transcript
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Heidi (00:00):
This is episode 227 of
Teacher Approved.
You're listening to TeacherApproved, the podcast helping
educators elevate what mattersand simplify the rest. I'm
Heidi.
Emily (00:13):
And I'm Emily. We're the
creators behind Second Story
Window, where we give researchbased and teacher approved
strategies that make teachingless stressful and more
effective. You can check out theshow notes and resources from
each episode atsecondstorywindow.net.
Heidi (00:28):
We're so glad you're
tuning in today. Let's get to
the show.
Emily (00:36):
Hey there. Thanks for
joining us today. In today's
episode, we are sharingpractical strategies for
handling student work refusal,and we have a teacher approved
tip for creating a simpleprevention checklist you can use
during lesson planning.
Heidi (00:50):
Let's start with a try it
tomorrow, where we share a quick
win that you can try in yourclassroom right away. Emily,
what's our suggestion for thisweek?
Emily (00:57):
This week try the Choice
to Skip strategy. So when you're
giving an assignment withmultiple problems or questions,
tell your students that they canchoose one to skip. You might
say something like, everyoneneeds to do problems five and
eight, but you can choose one ofthe other problems to skip.
Heidi (01:12):
We know that this sounds
counterintuitive, but giving
kids permission to skipsomething often makes them way
more willing to tackle the rest.
Emily (01:20):
I know, it's such a good
strategy. So if you like this
idea or anything else we sharehere on the podcast, we would
appreciate it so much if youwould take a second and give us
a five star rating and review inyour podcast app.
Heidi (01:31):
Alright, let's talk about
one of those classroom moments
that can make or break your day.That is when a student just will
not work.
Emily (01:41):
Yeah, we all know how it
goes. You've taught a great
lesson, given clear directions,and most kids are happily
working away. But there's thatone student, or, you know, maybe
a few, that are sitting therewith their arms crossed,
scribbling on their paper orfinding every possible way to
avoid the task.
Heidi (01:59):
As a teacher, this is so
triggering, it feels personal
like they are provoking us onpurpose. And I'm not fully
convinced that they're not.
Emily (02:09):
Right. But if you only
remember one thing from today's
episode, we want you to rememberthis, work refusal is
communication.
Heidi (02:17):
And even if it feels like
what they're communicating is
defiance, I promise that it ismuch more than that. These kids
are telling us something, andit's our job, as the grown up,
unfortunately, to figure outwhat that something is.
Emily (02:32):
And that does not mean
that it is not frustrating, but
that does mean there's a lot wecan do about it. And let's start
with the single most effectiveway to deal with work refusal,
and that is to prevent it fromstarting in the first place.
That is basically our behaviormanagement mantra. What can we
do to stop it before it starts?
Heidi (02:49):
And with work refusal,
that really comes down to this.
Are your lessons clear,engaging, and broken down in a
way that supports studentsuccess?
Emily (02:58):
And we promise this can
be much simpler than it may
sound. It just means askingyourself, am I giving students
enough opportunities to do thework with me before I expect
them to do it on their own? Themore you build that in, the less
likely you are to hit a wall ofrefusal when it's time for
independent practice.
Heidi (03:15):
Now this doesn't mean
that you have to hand out a
worksheet mid lesson for yourstudents to work on. There are
lots of quick and easy ways toget students thinking and doing
while you're teaching, withouthaving to get out paper and
pencil.
Emily (03:28):
If you want lots of
examples, go back and check out
episode 161 where we talkedabout how to add active
responses to any lesson usingchoral response, signals, signs,
writing, and technology.
Heidi (03:41):
Now, hopefully this
single step of preparing
engaging lessons magicallysolves all of your work refusal
problems before they start.
Emily (03:49):
Yeah, please, fingers
crossed.
Heidi (03:51):
And to help you with that
task, at the end of this
episode, we have a quickchecklist that we'll share that
you can use to evaluate anylesson before you teach it.
Emily (04:01):
Okay, but let's be
honest, even the best, most
engaging lesson isn't going toprevent every instance of work
refusal. Sometimes what workedgreat yesterday may totally flop
today.
Heidi (04:11):
So let's get you set up
with a toolbox for what to do
when, despite your best efforts,work refusal shows up anyway.
The first tool is to understandwhat not to do.
Emily (04:22):
Yeah, we want to avoid
the "don'ts" that can take a
rough moment and turn it into afull scale disaster.
Heidi (04:30):
But if you see yourself
in any of these, please be
gentle with yourself, because itis so easy for this to happen.
When kids refuse to work, ittriggers some pretty strong
emotions, and our first instinctmight be to double down or to
start threatening consequences,but don't get caught in a power
struggle.
Emily (04:48):
Right. A power struggle
is the absolute least helpful
solution to this problem. We areafter cooperation, not
compliance. The moment itbecomes a battle of wills,
everybody loses.
Heidi (04:59):
Our second "don't" is
don't punish, especially by
taking away recess. Kids needthat movement, and the break
time, and taking it away willlikely cause more problems later
in the day, not fewer.
Emily (05:12):
And don't assume students
are being lazy or difficult on
purpose, even if it seems like100% that is what is happening.
There is usually something elsegoing on.
Heidi (05:21):
Now, in desperate
moments, we know it can be so
tempting to resort to bribes,something like, if you just do
this page, you can have extracomputer time, but don't do
this. Bribes will work in themoment, but they're not solving
the underlying issue, and theycan actually make work refusal
worse over time.
Emily (05:40):
The last "don't" might be
the most important. Don't react
out of frustration. When youfeel that emotional reaction
rising up, you know, theirritation, the anger, pause and
take a breath before yourespond. Regulate yourself
first, because whatever you donext will either help the
situation or make it a whole lotharder.
Heidi (05:59):
And really, we know it is
so easy to feel triggered in
this moment. So please, if youhave experienced any of these
"don'ts" in the past, be kind toyourself, because we have all
done it. Probably we've all donea whole combination of those.
Emily (06:13):
Yeah, in tough moments,
we don't always respond as the
best version of ourselves. And Ican, like, just feel my blood
pressure rising just talkingabout this and remembering what
it feels like in these momentswhere you want to just get into
it, like, no, no, you are goingto do it, because I said so. But
now that you have got someclarity about how work refusal
might trigger you, remindyourself to pause and breathe
(06:34):
before reacting in the future.
Heidi (06:36):
And then once you have
avoided that minefield of
don'ts, you're in a much betterplace for the next step in
managing work refusal, which isto get curious.
Emily (06:46):
Remember, work refusal is
communication, like we said.
Every time a student refuses,they're telling you something,
even if it's coming out sidewaysthrough crossed arms and
dramatic size. Our job isn't towin the battle. It's to figure
out what's going on underneath.
Heidi (07:03):
When you are 10 minutes
into writing time and one kid
still hasn't picked up a dangpencil, shift your focus. Try
pretending you're a doctor, andchallenge yourself to evaluate
this patient. Start by askingyourself, what might this
behavior be trying to say, andwhat does the student need right
now?
Emily (07:20):
If one student is
refusing to write their
persuasive essay because theyhad a fight at recess, and
another is refusing because theydon't understand the assignment,
they need completely differentresponses from you.
Heidi (07:31):
So try running through a
list of diagnostic questions.
Does the student have theacademic skills to complete this
task? Maybe the directions don'tclick, or maybe they're missing
background knowledge. What lookslike defiance might actually be
a quiet panic.
Emily (07:45):
And sometimes the issue
is attention, not ability. Look
around the environment. Is ittoo noisy or distracting? Is the
student dealing with somethingoutside of school that makes
focusing nearly impossible inthe moment? Maybe their little
world is crumbling, and the lastthing they have the bandwidth
for is writing a persuasiveessay.
Heidi (08:03):
Also consider if the
student actually knows how to
get started. This is anexecutive functioning challenge.
The student might have the rightunderstanding, but planning out
the steps feels overwhelming, sothey just shut down instead.
Emily (08:16):
And don't forget basic
needs. Are they hungry, tired,
uncomfortable? Nobody can dotheir best work if their body is
struggling.
Heidi (08:23):
Now, if you can't
diagnose the problem from the
outside, just try asking thestudent what they need in order
to get started. When youapproach with curiosity instead
of judgment, the student feelsseen instead of shamed, and that
really changes everything.
Emily (08:37):
And curiosity also gives
you options. If it's a skill
issue, you can scaffold. If it'splanning, you can break down the
task into smaller steps. If it'sfocus, you can offer a quick
regulation break.
Heidi (08:49):
So instead of asking, why
won't they just do this work,
flip it to what's getting intheir way right now, and how can
I help clear that path?
Emily (08:58):
Of course, kids can't
always articulate what's wrong,
and you'll likely get a responselike nothing, or, I don't know.
Heidi (09:05):
And when that happens,
use your past history with the
student to make your best guessabout whether the problem is
academic, emotional, orenvironmental. Then once you
have a theory about what's goingon, you can respond in a way
that actually addresses the rootissue.
Emily (09:20):
Once you've managed any
outside issues that might be
impacting the student, you'reready for the next step,
offering support that helpsstudents re engage.
Heidi (09:28):
Now let's imagine that
you have just wrapped up your
top notch, super engaginggeometry lesson. Next is time
for independent practice. Youexplain the assignment and you
turn the kids loose. It seemslike everyone is getting to
work, but then you take a closerlook, and you notice one kid is
drawing Pokemon on his paper,one is playing with the Gibbets
on her crocs, and another hasn'teven noticed there's a paper on
(09:51):
his desk.
Emily (09:52):
Ugh, those Croc Gibbets.
You can feel your blood pressure
rising by the second. Why didthese kids have to make
everything so hard? So the firstthing is to remember the don'ts,
don't react, don't get into apower struggle. Take some deep
breaths and let your brainreset.
Heidi (10:07):
And then while you're
breathing, get curious. What
does each situation need? Usewhat you know about your past
interactions with these kids todiagnose the problem. Are there
any deeper, academic, emotional,or environmental problems at
play?
Emily (10:21):
Then address the issues
you can and provide the support
students need to get started.Maybe the girl with the crocs
just needs a reminder to leaveher shoes alone. But if students
need more support, we're goingto use a tool from Fred Jones'
book Tools for Teaching, calledpraise, prompt, and leave.
Heidi (10:38):
Now I swear by this
technique, it can absolutely
save you in a tough moment, andit has saved me in plenty of
them. So let's talk about howthis works in action. You walk
over to the desk nearest you,maybe it's the kid drawing the
Pokemon pictures, and you findsomething to praise about what
they have done right so far. Nowthis might be tricky if all he's
done is draw Pokemon pictures.
Emily (11:01):
Yes, but even if all you
can say is, I'm glad you've got
your pencil ready to go,starting with connection will
help keep the situationpositive.
Heidi (11:09):
The type of praise you
use in this moment really does
matter. Try to focus on effort,not ability. Something like,
"look how quickly you gotstarted on that first problem"
is more useful than "you're sosmart."
Emily (11:21):
After praising whatever
action they've taken, give them
one simple prompt about the verynext step they should take.
Don't go over the wholeassignment, just the next step.
Say something like, "the nextthing you need to do is circle
all the angles."
Heidi (11:33):
And then you leave. Don't
hover or wait for them to
complete that step. You willcircle back in a few minutes to
check on progress, but don'twait for them to get started
before you move on. The goal isto scaffold their independence,
not make them dependent on you,walking them through every step.
Emily (11:51):
Now let's say you've
calmed your emotions, you've
gotten curious about what'sgoing on, and you've tried to
praise, prompt, and leave, butthe work still isn't getting
done. We have all been in thosesituations, it can leave you
feeling really stuck.
Heidi (12:03):
But we promise you are
not stuck, because you have got
some more tools to try. When youfind yourself in this moment,
the next step is to make thework feel more manageable. A lot
of the time, work refusal comesdown to the task being too big
or too out of the student'scontrol.
Emily (12:19):
Yeah, think about how you
feel when someone hands you a 10
page form to fill out. Oh, theworst. Large assignments can be
daunting, even to adults, solet's do what we can to limit
that overwhelm for our kids.
Heidi (12:30):
So how do we shrink that
mountain down into a hill that a
student can actually climb? Twoof the best tools we have for
this are chunking and offeringagency. Emily, can you tell us
more about chunking?
Emily (12:42):
Yeah, well, when we say
chunk an assignment, isn't it
such an elegant word to describeit? This means we're breaking
the work down into smaller, bitesized steps. So instead of
expecting students to face awhole page of math problems,
cover all but the first one ortwo and say, work these, then
we'll check in.
Heidi (12:59):
This also works with
other assignments, like writing.
Instead of "write a paragraphabout your favorite animal," you
can try chunking yourdirections. "First choose the
animal you're going to writeabout, and then write one
sentence about what it lookslike."
Emily (13:12):
You can also try chunking
the time. Use timers to create
mini deadlines, like, "Work forthree minutes, then let's see
how far you get." Each small winbuilds momentum, and before you
know it, the student whocouldn't even start five minutes
ago is suddenly halfway done.
Heidi (13:25):
Besides chunking, you can
make work more manageable by
offering agency. Kids are muchmore likely to engage when they
feel that they have some say inwhat happens.
Emily (13:34):
Now before you have a
heart attack, that absolutely
does not mean turning your classinto a free for all. Think of it
more like choices withinstructure.
Heidi (13:43):
Yeah, you're likely to
find students much more engaged
in their work if they have somesay in how it gets done. So try
offering limited options and seehow quickly it changes the mood
in your room. Just make surethat you can live with whatever
they choose.
Emily (13:59):
Yeah, don't offer
students the choice to either do
their work independently or witha buddy if you don't want to
manage partner work at thatmoment. It's fine, there are
lots of simple ways to givestudents options that don't make
your job harder.
Heidi (14:11):
An easy one, for example,
is to try offering students the
choice of where to work. "Youcan stay at your desk or take
your paper to the carpet," or,"You could work at the top of
your desk, or you could turnaround and use your chair as a
desk." You know, little tweaksmake a big difference.
Emily (14:25):
You can also give
students the choice of how they
work. Can they use pen, pencilor crayon to complete the
assignment? Or maybe giveoptions about the format of
their response. "You can writethis out, type it, or draw your
response."
Heidi (14:38):
One of my favorite
options for students, and one of
the easiest was to let themchoose the order they do the
problems. If it doesn't reallyaffect the outcome, just let
them pick. "You can start withthe first three problems or the
last three problems. It's up toyou."
Emily (14:51):
And that choice to skip
strategy from our try it
tomorrow fits perfectly in thiscategory.
Heidi (14:57):
Kids love that one.
Honestly, it will make you their
favorite teacher.
Emily (15:02):
Another way to offer
choice is to invite the student
into helping solve thesituation. Ask them, "what part
feels hardest," or "what wouldmake this feel doable?"
Empowering students to solvetheir own problems can be just
the nudge they need to turnthings around.
Heidi (15:16):
As helpful and powerful
and useful as these tools are,
sometimes the wisest decisionyou can make is just to do
nothing.
Emily (15:24):
Yeah, as a teacher, you
need to learn to recognize when
the battle isn't worth it. Ifanything you try is just going
to escalate the situation, justleave it alone. Assuming the
child isn't in any danger, ashort reset or coming back to it
later can be more effective thanforcing compliance right now.
Heidi (15:40):
Maybe they need a few
minutes to cool down, or maybe
the timing just isn't right. Youcan always circle back when
they're in a better headspace.
Emily (15:47):
When things have calmed
down and it's time to have that
conversation, the most importantthing is to listen. Don't jump
in with your thoughts aboutwhat's happening. Let them talk
first. You really might besurprised what you learn.
Heidi (15:58):
And if work refusal
becomes a persistent pattern,
that's when you might need toinvolve other support, school
counselors, administrators orparents. You don't have to solve
everything by yourself.
Emily (16:08):
Okay, let's do a quick
recap of our strategies for
handling work refusal. First,prevent it when you can with
engaging, well-scaffoldedinstruction that sets students
up for success. When it doeshappen anyway, avoid power
struggles, punishment or bribes.Regulate yourself first, get
curious about what the behavioris communicating, like, is there
(16:29):
an academic, emotional orenvironmental issue at play?
Heidi (16:33):
Next, provide support
with praise, prompt, and leave.
Make the work feel manageable bybreaking it down and offering
choice within structure. Involvestudents in collaborative
problem solving, and know whenit's better just to let it go
and come back later.
Emily (16:46):
Remember, work refusal is
communication, not defiance. You
have tools to respond withoutburning yourself out. These kids
aren't trying to make your lifedifficult. They're trying to
tell you something, and now youknow how to listen.
Heidi (16:57):
We would love to hear how
these strategies work in your
classroom. Come join theconversation in our Teacher
Approved Facebook group.
Emily (17:05):
Now for our Teacher
Approved Tip of the Week, where
we share an actionable tip tohelp you elevate what matters
and simplify the rest. Thisweek's teacher approved tip is
to create a simple preventionchecklist for lesson planning.
So tell us about this, Heidi.
Heidi (17:18):
Well, we mentioned
earlier in the episode that
prevention is your best strategyfor avoiding work refusal. So we
want to give you some specificquestions that you can ask
yourself during lesson planning.These literally take one minute
to run through, but they cansave you 20 minutes of
redirecting and re-teachingduring work time.
Emily (17:35):
Here are the questions.
First, academic readiness. Can
most of your students do thisindependently after your guided
practice? Is there a clear modelor example they can refer to?
What's the hardest part of thistask, and have you taught that
piece well enough?
Heidi (17:49):
Next, engagement and
motivation. Why would a student
care about this assignment? Isthere any choice, movement or
novelty built in? Can youexplain the why behind this work
in kid friendly terms?
Emily (18:00):
Then overwhelm
prevention. Does this look
doable at first glance, or doesit look like a lot? Can you
break this into smaller chunksor steps? How long will this
realistically take your slowestworker?
Heidi (18:12):
Also consider environment
and logistics. Do students have
everything they need to completethis? Are there too many
distractions happening duringthis work time? Is this the
right time of day for this typeof task?
Emily (18:24):
And finally,
differentiation reality check.
What will your strugglinglearners do when they get stuck?
What will your fast finishers doso they don't become
distractions? Do studentsunderstand what being done with
this assignment looks like?
Heidi (18:37):
And here is my favorite
question of all. If you were
tired and this assignment landedon your desk right now, would
you want to do it? If the answeris no, your students probably
won't want to do it either.
Emily (18:48):
These questions help you
catch potential work refusal
before it happens, and honestly,they make your teaching more
engaging for everyone, not justthe kids who might refuse to
work.
Heidi (18:57):
We will put the full
checklist in the show notes so
that you can reference it easilyduring planning time.
To wrap up the show, we'resharing what we're giving extra
Emily (19:08):
I'm giving extra credit
to Noco cookie cakes on
credit to this week. Emily, whatgets your extra credit?
Instagram. She's also on Tiktok.I randomly stumbled on her
account like a month ago, and Igot sucked in watching these
videos. So it's this woman who,last year, I believe, lost her
job, and I don't reallyunderstand why, but she got this
(19:29):
idea of making cookie cake. Soshe's making just like a big
chocolate chip cookie, and thenusing frosting to decorate it.
But the best part is she does avoiceover of the recording of
But she is not a decorator.She's not really good at writing
or drawing anything. So alreadylike the outcome is hilarious.
(19:53):
her, the sped up, you know,clip, edited version of her
making this cake. And it justdelights me. She's hilarious. I
saw on her Instagram, shedescribed herself as a cookie
cake comedian. And I was like,yeah, that's accurate. I wish I
lived in Colorado. I'd getmyself a cookie cake so that she
could make fun of me while shemakes it. Because she always
makes fun of like, what peoplerequest on their cake, or
(20:16):
laments, why do people keepmaking me write things, and
anyway. And the other funnything is, she says all the time
that she doesn't like frosting,like she would not want to eat
one of these cakes, which makesit even funnier. It's so good.
If you need a laugh, I will linkto it in the show notes. Noco
cookie cakes.
Heidi (20:32):
Highly recommend. I did
see though today, I don't know
if you saw this, she hurt herhand.
Emily (20:36):
Oh no.
Heidi (20:36):
She hasn't been able to
decorate her case.
Emily (20:39):
No, I haven't seen that.
What a tragedy.
Heidi (20:41):
I know. So everyone's a
bit concerned. Hopefully Noco
can continue.
Emily (20:46):
Yes, please. I'll have to
check in on that. What are you
giving extra credit to, Heidi?
Heidi (20:51):
Well, I'm giving extra
credit to the picture book A
Fall Day for Bear by BonnieBecker. I love these bear books
so much. It's about like agrumpy, surly just want to be on
his own, introvert, bear and apeppy, extroverted mouse who
adopts him as his best friend.
Emily (21:10):
Against as well.
Heidi (21:11):
Yeah, so they have all
kinds of hijinks together. Yeah,
a fall picture book is always awin. And then this is just so
cute. And this one, though, it'sa bit of a role reversal,
because mouse is having a reallybad day, and so bear has to step
up to cheer him up. So it's verysweet. It's a perfect book for
fall. I know we did somevocabulary for Christmas for
(21:33):
Bear and Mouse. I think we havea vocabulary resource.
Emily (21:36):
Yes.
Heidi (21:37):
So if you have not met
bear and mouse, this is the
moment you need to jump on that.
Emily (21:41):
Yeah, and I did not know
about this new book, so I'm
excited to check it out.
Heidi (21:44):
It's very cute.
That is it for today's episode.Remember, work refusal is
communication. Your job isn't toforce compliance. It's to figure
out what your students need andto help them get there.
Emily (21:56):
Try our strategies for
handling work refusal with
curiosity instead offrustration. And don't forget
our Teacher Approved tip forcreating a prevention checklist
during lesson planning.
Heidi (22:07):
We hope you enjoyed this
episode of teacher approved. I'm
Heidi.
Emily (22:11):
And I'm Emily. Thank you
for listening. Be sure to follow
or subscribe in your podcast appso that you never miss an
episode.
Heidi (22:18):
You can connect with us
and other teachers in the
Teacher Approved Facebook group.We'll see you here next week.
Bye for now.
Emily (22:24):
Bye.