December 29, 2024 • 25 mins
Lucy Harrison remembers her older brother, Peter. Peter lived his life for others - his family, his friends and especially his sister Lucy. His tragic death in a road crash took the bottom out of Lucy’s world. She knows change is needed in relation to road safety, reducing road danger and fighting for justice for victims.
A sister’s tribute talks about how the love of a brother changes lives. It definitely is shaping hers
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Episode Transcript
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Paula (00:00):
Welcome everyone to "TesseLeads" with your host, Tesse Akpeki,
and co host me, Paula Okonneh.
"TesseLeads" is a safe and sensitive,as well as supportive place and
space to share, to hear, and totell your stories and experiences.
We at "TesseLeads" get super curiousabout the dilemmas shaping our future,
(00:26):
the future of our guests and ourlisteners, and included in that is
the journeys that our guests are on.
Our guest today is Lucy Harrison,and the theme today is "A Sister's
Tribute", and with that, I wantto welcome Lucy to the show.
(00:49):
And I know she's also going totell us a bit more, or a lot, not
a bit more, but because this is"TesseLeads", which is more personal,
she's going to tell us about herself.
Welcome.
Lucy (00:59):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
So yeah, I'm Lucy.
I am many things included inthat is a sister to two brothers.
And I lost one of those brothers10 years ago when he was killed
by a speeding hit and run driver.
So that has been a journey for meand yeah, I guess I'll talk to you
(01:22):
a little bit about our relationship.
Tesse (01:26):
You know, Lucy, I'm so pleased that you said yes to coming on "TesseLeads".
And, you know, when I hear your storyand I see how you care for Peter,
your brother, who was tragicallykilled, I just sense the power of
what you're doing through him andyour love for him in the world today.
(01:51):
Tell us a little bit of how growingup with Peter was, you know, what
are your memories of growing upwith this super wonderful icon?
Lucy (02:02):
I think I never appreciated that he was a super wonderful brother.
First of all, that he was12 years older than me.
So always my big brother, alwaysvery protective and a lot of fun.
And I suppose growing up, it wasdifficult at times because our middle
brother had learning difficulties andwas very challenging to our parents, and
(02:26):
very challenging to their relationship.
And they, you know, theyeventually split up when I was
eight, my brother was twenty.
And that was a very difficult time.
And some of my fondest memoriesactually were how he tried
to protect me through that.
And he moved out to live with his friends.
Four boys in a house together.
(02:48):
And the day he moved out, I remembermy mom and I cried and cried and cried
because the house felt so empty withouthim, but we knew it was important.
And then he used to pay me to go to hishouse on a Saturday and clean, because
the house was disgusting for boys.
They were gross.
(03:09):
And he didn't want to pay hismom because she might find things
that she might disapprove of.
But his little sister wasn'tgoing to grasp on him, right?
So I would go on a Saturday, and I wasa teenager by then, and I would clean
the house, and he would kind of comein and out and his friends, and they
would tell me what they'd been up to.
(03:30):
And then they would usually like takeme for like, I don't know, McDonald's
or something, and give me some money,and it was like a really special time.
And then sometimes I would go to thefootball with them in the afternoon.
And actually, we would go andwatch Birmingham City together,
and every half time, he wouldsay to me, "do you want anything?
(03:52):
I'm going to go and get a beerand I would say no, I'm fine".
And he would always come back withthe hot chocolate and a crunchy
because he's like little sister youknow, just she has to have a hot
chocolate and some, you know treats.
And yeah he was a really good brotherand I look back on those teenage years
and he was some real stability for meactually, when our parents marriage
(04:13):
broke up and things were not so great.
Paula (04:16):
Wow.
Every time I hear about Peter, oh mygosh, this is tough but good, you know.
When you have such good memories abouta sibling that, you know, has passed on.
That's good.
That's really good.
And so, you mentioned somethingabout going to his house to clean
and finding things that your parentswouldn't have wanted you to find.
(04:40):
I was going to say, what else brings yougreatest joy when you think about, what
other stories can you share with us?
Lucy (04:47):
So my brother was very, very clever, but he went, he got into
grammar school and he got bulliedterribly and he did not enjoy it.
And my dad really had a thing about,he had to stay at grammar school
because he had got his place there,so would not allow him to change.
And he consequently endedup failing his exams.
(05:12):
And he'd got a job that was provisionalon him passing his exams and he
called them and said, I have failedmy exams and this is why, but I'm
going to work hard and I'm determined.
And they said, okay, wewill give you a chance.
And so he got his job and he absolutelyworked so hard and I thought that
was so brave for a young man.
(05:32):
But then when I was doing my examsand particularly my A levels, he was
really proud that I was doing very well.
There was never jealousy or resentmentand I got in my A levels, I got four A's.
And my brother, but I remember he,I was on the bus to going at my
(05:54):
A level results and I had so manymissed calls from my brother and
he's like, have you got them yet?
What are they?
And I was like, just leave me alone.
Let me go and get them.
And when I got those results, he was sohappy that he rang his boss at work and
said, my sister has just got four A's.
(06:15):
I'm finishing work for the day, because Iam going to celebrate with my sister, and
he did, he came with all my friends, andwe were in the pub in the afternoon, and
we had some food, and we had a night out.
And he was like, almostlike, prouder than my dad.
He was so happy, I remember that, because,I looked back and I didn't appreciate
(06:37):
it, but he really showed his love.
Tesse (06:41):
I'm choking up, and I'm choking up with emotion, not with
the sadness, but with the kind ofpride that your brother had in you.
You know, how he was just asuper generous brother who
wished you well, believed in you.
And, you know, one of the things thatcomes to my mind of the question is as a
(07:01):
sibling, as a sister or what would yourolder self say to your younger self?
Lucy (07:07):
Oh gosh, you know, I should have given him a bit more, because
he was 12 years older than me.
I feel like our relationshipwas very that Peter gave to me
because I was as we got older.
You know, he was in mylife until I was 27.
So I still was a young person.
And if he was here now, there'sso much that I could do for him.
(07:28):
And so I wish that I couldsay to my younger self, do
something nice for your brother.
And I remember just buying hima really kind of silly christmas
present, something horse racingrelated, and he loved it so much.
And it probably cost me a few pounds.
And, you know, I wish I'ddone a little more for him.
He deserves a little bitof what he gave, I think.
(07:49):
But yeah.
Paula (07:50):
Wow.
Wow.
Wow.
I wish I had met him.
You know, the more you talk abouthim, I'm like, I wish I had met him.
You know, because there's so much, asyou remember him, I mean, his memories
coming alive through conversation.
And so, what goes through my mind asI'm listening to you and smiling at the
(08:12):
memories, how would you celebrate him?
I mean, what celebratorymessage would you have for him?
If, not even if he were here, butjust, you know, as he's looking
down, looking at you now, whatcelebratory message do you have?
Lucy (08:27):
I mean, so my brother loved his friends.
He loved his circle of friendsand he loved to have fun.
That was his favorite thing, you know,everybody together, everybody having fun.
Having a laugh, having a dance,have some music on, be silly, don't
worry about what anyone is thinking.
And I know whenever I go out withmy friends, this is celebrating him.
(08:51):
This is what he would want.
I especially know becausehe loved Neil Diamond.
And sometimes I go out and NeilDiamond comes on and Sweet Caroline
and I think, huh, this is a message.
I know, I almost feel closest to himwhen I am with my close friends and
everybody is really having a good time,is when I feel him closest to me because
(09:16):
that would have made him so happy.
Tesse (09:18):
Wow.
Wow.
So, you know, as you, I can'thelp but keep smiling because I
feel that I've actually met Peter.
You know, and I'm wondering whetherthere are any other joyful stories
you can share with our listeners?
Because I'm just smiling from ear toear really with this, just this guy,
(09:38):
Peter, who was just so full of lifeand hope and inspiration and yet was
so generous and so giving of his joyto others and to his little sister.
Lucy (09:50):
He was, and I constantly feel we never appreciated him, and
the difficulties with our middlebrother, part of that was because,
you know, family life was a bitdifficult after mum and dad separated.
But, something that people alwaystalk about, so he was best friends
growing up with a boy called Paul,and Paul lived houses down from us.
(10:12):
And his mom was best friends with my mom.
And you know, Paul was in ourhouse, Peter was in Paul's house.
And then when they were 18 theygot jobs together in the local
supermarket to earn some pennies whilethey were sorting their lives out.
And Paul got a car and was drivingand sadly when they were 18, Paul,
(10:34):
we don't really know what happened,but he crashed and he died.
And my brother was 18, and I remembermy mum waking me in the morning, I
was 6 years old, and she said to me,Peter's best friend has been killed.
You know, just, Paul has been,and I was very sad that you know,
this boy was always in our house.
(10:55):
But for my brother, his best friend,and he actually did the eulogy at
Paul's funeral, and he was 18 yearsold, and we sat in the front row.
It was the first funeral that I wentto and my brother did the eulogy.
And his parents whoseparents were so grateful.
And I remember our, the boys headteacher who became my head teacher
(11:20):
later was at the funeral, and hergoing to my parents and saying, wow,
you know, that is the most incrediblething that your son has just done
to stand there at 18 and do that.
And then he never reallytalked about it much.
He always remembered the anniversary.
But he had this weird sense of, he usedto say, I don't think I will live long.
(11:42):
And we always put it down to,he understood that fragility.
And I used to laugh at him andthink, what are you talking about?
And it's only since I've experiencedmy loss of him, I can appreciate how
hard it must have been for him to losehis best friend at 18 in that way.
And it must have shaped him.
It must have made him wantto live in the moment.
(12:04):
It must have made him generous andfun, but I was too young at the time
that it happened to understand that.
Tesse (12:12):
Yeah.
You were young.
You were young and my heart goes outto you, because when we are young
as people, life has a differentdimension, a different dynamic to it.
But Lucy, I actually have a personalthing with you and it started from
the very first moment I met you.
First on Zoom and then in person,and that's the warmth you exude.
(12:36):
You know, your empathy,your compassion, your care.
So I'm going to do a little bitof a switch as well, because we're
talking about a sibling's love.
What I see is, I see that sibling'slove reflected in how you bring siblings
together to honor their sibling.
You say a bit about that, well, you know,your passion for sibling support, for
(12:57):
sibling care, for sibling compassion.
Lucy (13:01):
So I've done the support groups for Raid Peace in the West Midlands and
West Mercia regions for several years.
I love doing those and theyare open to all relationships.
But gradually as time has gone on, Ihave realized that we have such a low
number of siblings in those groups.
When siblings did come in, theyperhaps were a little bit overpowered
(13:23):
by parent loss or partner loss.
And those are still very, you know, no oneloss is worse or easier than the other.
They are all terrible.
I just felt like we needed a space forsiblings because, there was just such
a low number reaching out for help.
And I thought, but theremust be so many out there.
(13:43):
And so I spoke with Belina, who's thesupport services manager at Robis,
and we sort of thought about it andthen yeah, okay, we'll do a pilot.
And we really did not know.
We got a lot of people signup, Tesse included, and it was
such, I think the first meeting,it was such a beautiful space.
It's a sad space.
(14:05):
You know, every sibling is therewith heartbreaking loss, somebody
that has been taken far too soon.
You know, some of the siblings wehave in that group, they are talking
about losing a sibling who's 18 or19, you know, barely begun life.
And there was a bond, I think,there was a bond very quickly.
(14:26):
And it is a space for our siblings, andit is a space to get a break, because I
think the siblings take everything on.
As an adult sibling, your siblingis killed, you want to protect mom
and dad, if you have mom and dad.
You want to protectyour sibling's partner.
You feel that your grief is less valid.
(14:46):
You don't have a kind of designatedamount of time that your work are going to
provide you to be off because they don'tsee it as a parent, a partner, or a child.
Or you feel like you've moved out and youhaven't lived with your sibling for years.
So maybe they're not in your dailylife, but it's still a huge impact, and
we just needed a space to acknowledgethat really to say it's valid.
(15:09):
To say that you will hurt, this willhurt probably for many worse than
anything else you will go through.
And you have this space that youcan come and you can talk honestly,
and no one is going to judge you.
No one's going to tell you get over it.
Your grief is less than someone else's.
You need to think about someone else.
This is a sibling space and thesibling relationship counts.
(15:31):
It was a pilot, it was a trial,but it's because of the people that
came, like Tesse, like, I don't know,Sam Poynton, Abi Brooks, Edwards,
Lizzie, Emily, there's so many,Janice, there's so many of them.
And, yeah they have made it beautiful.
They really have.
Tesse (15:49):
But you know, you held it.
You know, the whole initiativethat a woman has set up called,
called "Holding Space Centre".
You know, and you held that space.
You created that space andpeople came in and inhabited it.
And you make it safebecause you facilitate it.
And one of the things that I really,really love from the bottom of my heart is
(16:13):
how unconditionally accepted people feel,and how from the ache of people's heart,
they support each other in spite of theages, even though most people are young.
I'm the mama of the group andI'm very happy to be mama Tesse.
Very, very, very happy.
I embrace it.
But actually what I find there isa reflection of value and worth
(16:39):
and respect for each other in themidst of very, very deep loss.
And dare I say, Lucy, that a lot ofthat leadership comes from you because
you mirror, you actually mirror that.
So Paula, what comes to your mindis, as we talk about Lucy, as a
sister, and her care for her brother.
Paula (16:59):
You mentioned, Lucy, how the sibling group was a pioneer group.
You notice that the more attentionseemed to go to the partner, or the
parents, and not so much the siblings.
Is this something that now,I mean, it's like, how many
years have you been doing this?
If you don't mind me asking?
Lucy (17:21):
So the sibling group is about a year and a half now,
something like a year and a half.
It's still our baby group.
Paula (17:29):
And what stories have you heard from people who have
become part of that sibling group?
I know Tesse is part of it.
Of course you're part of it becauseyou're the pioneer, you came up with it.
But what other stories canyou tell us without, you know,
spilling any confidentiality?
How else have people been helped?
Lucy (17:49):
So we hear from siblings who were bereaved years ago, and I mean,
over 50 years ago, in some cases, andnever had a space to talk about it.
And so they're coming now at a pointthat is much later in their life.
And having that space for the first time,and almost being able to acknowledge
(18:10):
that loss for the first time, andthat's really humbling actually.
And they act as a kind of beaconfor the rest of us, really.
And here is someone that has survivedlife, that has navigated life without
their sibling, but of course, evennow, they still feel the loss,
and that's quite beautiful to havethem there and what they offer.
(18:34):
And then we hear from siblingswho are, you know, in the midst of
their studies or their career andthey're really knocked off course
by the loss and they have to change.
They have to adapt.
They have to be resilient andaccept that maybe their path is
going to be very different now.
People that were at university studyingand they have to accept that they just
(18:55):
can't do what they first set out to.
And that's powerful.
And we hear from siblings who are almostat breaking point, dare I say, because
they've sort of been told by those aroundthem that your loss does not matter as
much as someone else's, so they bury itand they hide it and they feel that they
(19:19):
can't express that and they bottle it up.
And you know, with that kind ofgrief it eats you from the inside.
And so there is so much there andeveryone's loss, you know, it's individual
to them, but we have bonds, similarties.
And what you see, and what I've seen insome of my other groups, but what I think
(19:42):
I see more intensely with the siblingsis people come in and it's as though
the weight of the world is on theirshoulders and then they can breathe, and
their shoulders can go back a little bit.
And it's purely because they'rebeing told, we understand.
We understand, and you can feelwhat you feel and that's not
(20:04):
wrong, and I think it's beautiful.
And Tesse brings, you know, she saysshe's the mama Tesse but let me tell you,
Tesse brings so much wisdom to that group.
Every time Tesse speaks, it isarticulate and thoughtful and just
so, you know, meant from the heartand sums things up and she just brings
(20:28):
this, you know, she talks about meholding this space, but it's all about
the people that come into that space.
And Tesse brings so much beautyto that group, so you know.
Tesse (20:38):
You know, you, you have brought, and this is something,
you know, we just cut to thissister's love and that sister's
love it's about your middle brother.
It's about your older brother.
It's about you and what a sistercan be or a brother can be.
My personal story is you've taughtme a lot about love, period.
But also about valuing those inthe family, brothers and sisters
(21:01):
in the family, and knowing thatwe only have now to do that.
We only have now, we don'thave tomorrow, we don't know.
And in your tribute to Peter, I'msure he's very proud of his sister.
Lucy (21:18):
I hope so Tesse.
I don't know, maybe one day I'llsee him again and I hope so.
I hope so.
I, you know, owe him so much and so,I don't know, sometimes people say you
should take a rest or whatever, but I knowthat for the rest of my life, I will do
what I come to work for him in his memory.
Tesse (21:41):
Yeah, what other things are you doing to celebrate Peter this year?
Because this is a big year, isn't it?
It's 10 years celebration, isn't it?
Lucy (21:48):
It's scary, you know, because some days it feels 10 years.
You feel the distance, you think, oh, Ihaven't heard him laugh in 10 years, wow.
And other days it's, two minutes, youknow, you think I can recall it like it
was yesterday, but we are going first.
I've said my brother loved horseracing, so we are going to Cheltenham.
(22:10):
I'm going with his friends, which isgoing to be emotional, because whenever
I'm with his friends, I always sortof expect him to walk in and it's
a reminder that he's not going to.
But be with his friends, hopefullyit will be a really fun day.
That's definitely somethinghe would approve of.
I love to write poetry, so I'm goingto try and write something to mark
(22:31):
the 10 years, and to maybe try andsum up some of what us siblings feel.
And I'm trying to, you know, I'mtrying to embody a little bit of his
live in the moment type personality.
I'm not always great at that,but I certainly had some fun
times with my friends this year.
Yeah, I had a weekend in Butlinswith my two best friends and it
(22:54):
was, in many ways, so cringy.
But we laughed so much, and we jokedso much, and he would love that.
So, yeah, and I paid for that withsome money that actually came from
him, which made it very special.
Tesse (23:10):
Wow, wow, wow.
Paula, you're pensive.
Paula (23:16):
Yeah, I'm thinking, thinking about so many things.
But, did I hear you say you prayed for himwith someone that made it very special?
Lucy (23:25):
Oh no, sorry, I paid for the weekend.
Paula (23:27):
Oh, you paid for the weekend.
Lucy (23:29):
Yeah, with something from him.
But I do pray.
I do pray for him, actually, most nights.
Paula (23:36):
Yeah, and on that note, I mean, Tesse says I'm pensive because
I'm thinking of so many siblings Iknow who have lost their siblings.
I don't know whether it makes anydifference whether you came from a
two sibling or a multi sibling family.
It's still a loss.
And so, you know, Lucy, thank youso much for what you are doing,
(23:58):
what you have done, and whatyou continue, you know, to do.
Because as you said, siblings do get leftbehind many times, and it's important
to remember them because they're lostis different, but it's still a loss.
And so that's why we do"TesseLeads" because your
precious stories and life matter.
(24:21):
And so we always encourage our gueststo share them with us and let them
know that they are supported andnurtured and that they're never alone.
These stories will reach so many heartsbecause, you know, it's not if, it's when,
somebody, we are going to lose someone.
And so for our listeners, we ask thatyou head over to "Apple Podcasts",
(24:44):
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we do"Youtube" and " Spotify, oranywhere you listen to a podcast
and please, click, click, subscribe.
We also ask that you share it with yourfriends, because these stories do matter.
And if you have found "TesseLeads"helpful, and in particular, this episode,
(25:06):
please let us know in your review.
And if you have any questions ortopics you'd like us to cover,
we ask that you send us a note.
And last but not least, if you'd liketo be a guest on our show, "TesseLeads",
please head over to our website,which is "www.tesseleads", to apply.
Thank you so much, Lucy.
(25:28):
I know lives have beenchanged listening to this.
Tesse (25:32):
Oh, I'm telling you, when I talk about Lucy, I think of his sister's love.
Lucy, thank you for telling your story.
Lucy (25:40):
Thank you for allowing that.
It means a lot.
Welcome everyone to "TesseLeads" with your host, Tesse Akpeki,
and co host me, Paula Okonneh.
"TesseLeads" is a safe and sensitive,as well as supportive place and
space to share, to hear, and totell your stories and experiences.
We at "TesseLeads" get super curiousabout the dilemmas shaping our future,
(00:26):
the future of our guests and ourlisteners, and included in that is
the journeys that our guests are on.
Our guest today is Lucy Harrison,and the theme today is "A Sister's
Tribute", and with that, I wantto welcome Lucy to the show.
(00:49):
And I know she's also going totell us a bit more, or a lot, not
a bit more, but because this is"TesseLeads", which is more personal,
she's going to tell us about herself.
Welcome.
Lucy (00:59):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
So yeah, I'm Lucy.
I am many things included inthat is a sister to two brothers.
And I lost one of those brothers10 years ago when he was killed
by a speeding hit and run driver.
So that has been a journey for meand yeah, I guess I'll talk to you
(01:22):
a little bit about our relationship.
Tesse (01:26):
You know, Lucy, I'm so pleased that you said yes to coming on "TesseLeads".
And, you know, when I hear your storyand I see how you care for Peter,
your brother, who was tragicallykilled, I just sense the power of
what you're doing through him andyour love for him in the world today.
(01:51):
Tell us a little bit of how growingup with Peter was, you know, what
are your memories of growing upwith this super wonderful icon?
Lucy (02:02):
I think I never appreciated that he was a super wonderful brother.
First of all, that he was12 years older than me.
So always my big brother, alwaysvery protective and a lot of fun.
And I suppose growing up, it wasdifficult at times because our middle
brother had learning difficulties andwas very challenging to our parents, and
(02:26):
very challenging to their relationship.
And they, you know, theyeventually split up when I was
eight, my brother was twenty.
And that was a very difficult time.
And some of my fondest memoriesactually were how he tried
to protect me through that.
And he moved out to live with his friends.
Four boys in a house together.
(02:48):
And the day he moved out, I remembermy mom and I cried and cried and cried
because the house felt so empty withouthim, but we knew it was important.
And then he used to pay me to go to hishouse on a Saturday and clean, because
the house was disgusting for boys.
They were gross.
(03:09):
And he didn't want to pay hismom because she might find things
that she might disapprove of.
But his little sister wasn'tgoing to grasp on him, right?
So I would go on a Saturday, and I wasa teenager by then, and I would clean
the house, and he would kind of comein and out and his friends, and they
would tell me what they'd been up to.
(03:30):
And then they would usually like takeme for like, I don't know, McDonald's
or something, and give me some money,and it was like a really special time.
And then sometimes I would go to thefootball with them in the afternoon.
And actually, we would go andwatch Birmingham City together,
and every half time, he wouldsay to me, "do you want anything?
(03:52):
I'm going to go and get a beerand I would say no, I'm fine".
And he would always come back withthe hot chocolate and a crunchy
because he's like little sister youknow, just she has to have a hot
chocolate and some, you know treats.
And yeah he was a really good brotherand I look back on those teenage years
and he was some real stability for meactually, when our parents marriage
(04:13):
broke up and things were not so great.
Paula (04:16):
Wow.
Every time I hear about Peter, oh mygosh, this is tough but good, you know.
When you have such good memories abouta sibling that, you know, has passed on.
That's good.
That's really good.
And so, you mentioned somethingabout going to his house to clean
and finding things that your parentswouldn't have wanted you to find.
(04:40):
I was going to say, what else brings yougreatest joy when you think about, what
other stories can you share with us?
Lucy (04:47):
So my brother was very, very clever, but he went, he got into
grammar school and he got bulliedterribly and he did not enjoy it.
And my dad really had a thing about,he had to stay at grammar school
because he had got his place there,so would not allow him to change.
And he consequently endedup failing his exams.
(05:12):
And he'd got a job that was provisionalon him passing his exams and he
called them and said, I have failedmy exams and this is why, but I'm
going to work hard and I'm determined.
And they said, okay, wewill give you a chance.
And so he got his job and he absolutelyworked so hard and I thought that
was so brave for a young man.
(05:32):
But then when I was doing my examsand particularly my A levels, he was
really proud that I was doing very well.
There was never jealousy or resentmentand I got in my A levels, I got four A's.
And my brother, but I remember he,I was on the bus to going at my
(05:54):
A level results and I had so manymissed calls from my brother and
he's like, have you got them yet?
What are they?
And I was like, just leave me alone.
Let me go and get them.
And when I got those results, he was sohappy that he rang his boss at work and
said, my sister has just got four A's.
(06:15):
I'm finishing work for the day, because Iam going to celebrate with my sister, and
he did, he came with all my friends, andwe were in the pub in the afternoon, and
we had some food, and we had a night out.
And he was like, almostlike, prouder than my dad.
He was so happy, I remember that, because,I looked back and I didn't appreciate
(06:37):
it, but he really showed his love.
Tesse (06:41):
I'm choking up, and I'm choking up with emotion, not with
the sadness, but with the kind ofpride that your brother had in you.
You know, how he was just asuper generous brother who
wished you well, believed in you.
And, you know, one of the things thatcomes to my mind of the question is as a
(07:01):
sibling, as a sister or what would yourolder self say to your younger self?
Lucy (07:07):
Oh gosh, you know, I should have given him a bit more, because
he was 12 years older than me.
I feel like our relationshipwas very that Peter gave to me
because I was as we got older.
You know, he was in mylife until I was 27.
So I still was a young person.
And if he was here now, there'sso much that I could do for him.
(07:28):
And so I wish that I couldsay to my younger self, do
something nice for your brother.
And I remember just buying hima really kind of silly christmas
present, something horse racingrelated, and he loved it so much.
And it probably cost me a few pounds.
And, you know, I wish I'ddone a little more for him.
He deserves a little bitof what he gave, I think.
(07:49):
But yeah.
Paula (07:50):
Wow.
Wow.
Wow.
I wish I had met him.
You know, the more you talk abouthim, I'm like, I wish I had met him.
You know, because there's so much, asyou remember him, I mean, his memories
coming alive through conversation.
And so, what goes through my mind asI'm listening to you and smiling at the
(08:12):
memories, how would you celebrate him?
I mean, what celebratorymessage would you have for him?
If, not even if he were here, butjust, you know, as he's looking
down, looking at you now, whatcelebratory message do you have?
Lucy (08:27):
I mean, so my brother loved his friends.
He loved his circle of friendsand he loved to have fun.
That was his favorite thing, you know,everybody together, everybody having fun.
Having a laugh, having a dance,have some music on, be silly, don't
worry about what anyone is thinking.
And I know whenever I go out withmy friends, this is celebrating him.
(08:51):
This is what he would want.
I especially know becausehe loved Neil Diamond.
And sometimes I go out and NeilDiamond comes on and Sweet Caroline
and I think, huh, this is a message.
I know, I almost feel closest to himwhen I am with my close friends and
everybody is really having a good time,is when I feel him closest to me because
(09:16):
that would have made him so happy.
Tesse (09:18):
Wow.
Wow.
So, you know, as you, I can'thelp but keep smiling because I
feel that I've actually met Peter.
You know, and I'm wondering whetherthere are any other joyful stories
you can share with our listeners?
Because I'm just smiling from ear toear really with this, just this guy,
(09:38):
Peter, who was just so full of lifeand hope and inspiration and yet was
so generous and so giving of his joyto others and to his little sister.
Lucy (09:50):
He was, and I constantly feel we never appreciated him, and
the difficulties with our middlebrother, part of that was because,
you know, family life was a bitdifficult after mum and dad separated.
But, something that people alwaystalk about, so he was best friends
growing up with a boy called Paul,and Paul lived houses down from us.
(10:12):
And his mom was best friends with my mom.
And you know, Paul was in ourhouse, Peter was in Paul's house.
And then when they were 18 theygot jobs together in the local
supermarket to earn some pennies whilethey were sorting their lives out.
And Paul got a car and was drivingand sadly when they were 18, Paul,
(10:34):
we don't really know what happened,but he crashed and he died.
And my brother was 18, and I remembermy mum waking me in the morning, I
was 6 years old, and she said to me,Peter's best friend has been killed.
You know, just, Paul has been,and I was very sad that you know,
this boy was always in our house.
(10:55):
But for my brother, his best friend,and he actually did the eulogy at
Paul's funeral, and he was 18 yearsold, and we sat in the front row.
It was the first funeral that I wentto and my brother did the eulogy.
And his parents whoseparents were so grateful.
And I remember our, the boys headteacher who became my head teacher
(11:20):
later was at the funeral, and hergoing to my parents and saying, wow,
you know, that is the most incrediblething that your son has just done
to stand there at 18 and do that.
And then he never reallytalked about it much.
He always remembered the anniversary.
But he had this weird sense of, he usedto say, I don't think I will live long.
(11:42):
And we always put it down to,he understood that fragility.
And I used to laugh at him andthink, what are you talking about?
And it's only since I've experiencedmy loss of him, I can appreciate how
hard it must have been for him to losehis best friend at 18 in that way.
And it must have shaped him.
It must have made him wantto live in the moment.
(12:04):
It must have made him generous andfun, but I was too young at the time
that it happened to understand that.
Tesse (12:12):
Yeah.
You were young.
You were young and my heart goes outto you, because when we are young
as people, life has a differentdimension, a different dynamic to it.
But Lucy, I actually have a personalthing with you and it started from
the very first moment I met you.
First on Zoom and then in person,and that's the warmth you exude.
(12:36):
You know, your empathy,your compassion, your care.
So I'm going to do a little bitof a switch as well, because we're
talking about a sibling's love.
What I see is, I see that sibling'slove reflected in how you bring siblings
together to honor their sibling.
You say a bit about that, well, you know,your passion for sibling support, for
(12:57):
sibling care, for sibling compassion.
Lucy (13:01):
So I've done the support groups for Raid Peace in the West Midlands and
West Mercia regions for several years.
I love doing those and theyare open to all relationships.
But gradually as time has gone on, Ihave realized that we have such a low
number of siblings in those groups.
When siblings did come in, theyperhaps were a little bit overpowered
(13:23):
by parent loss or partner loss.
And those are still very, you know, no oneloss is worse or easier than the other.
They are all terrible.
I just felt like we needed a space forsiblings because, there was just such
a low number reaching out for help.
And I thought, but theremust be so many out there.
(13:43):
And so I spoke with Belina, who's thesupport services manager at Robis,
and we sort of thought about it andthen yeah, okay, we'll do a pilot.
And we really did not know.
We got a lot of people signup, Tesse included, and it was
such, I think the first meeting,it was such a beautiful space.
It's a sad space.
(14:05):
You know, every sibling is therewith heartbreaking loss, somebody
that has been taken far too soon.
You know, some of the siblings wehave in that group, they are talking
about losing a sibling who's 18 or19, you know, barely begun life.
And there was a bond, I think,there was a bond very quickly.
(14:26):
And it is a space for our siblings, andit is a space to get a break, because I
think the siblings take everything on.
As an adult sibling, your siblingis killed, you want to protect mom
and dad, if you have mom and dad.
You want to protectyour sibling's partner.
You feel that your grief is less valid.
(14:46):
You don't have a kind of designatedamount of time that your work are going to
provide you to be off because they don'tsee it as a parent, a partner, or a child.
Or you feel like you've moved out and youhaven't lived with your sibling for years.
So maybe they're not in your dailylife, but it's still a huge impact, and
we just needed a space to acknowledgethat really to say it's valid.
(15:09):
To say that you will hurt, this willhurt probably for many worse than
anything else you will go through.
And you have this space that youcan come and you can talk honestly,
and no one is going to judge you.
No one's going to tell you get over it.
Your grief is less than someone else's.
You need to think about someone else.
This is a sibling space and thesibling relationship counts.
(15:31):
It was a pilot, it was a trial,but it's because of the people that
came, like Tesse, like, I don't know,Sam Poynton, Abi Brooks, Edwards,
Lizzie, Emily, there's so many,Janice, there's so many of them.
And, yeah they have made it beautiful.
They really have.
Tesse (15:49):
But you know, you held it.
You know, the whole initiativethat a woman has set up called,
called "Holding Space Centre".
You know, and you held that space.
You created that space andpeople came in and inhabited it.
And you make it safebecause you facilitate it.
And one of the things that I really,really love from the bottom of my heart is
(16:13):
how unconditionally accepted people feel,and how from the ache of people's heart,
they support each other in spite of theages, even though most people are young.
I'm the mama of the group andI'm very happy to be mama Tesse.
Very, very, very happy.
I embrace it.
But actually what I find there isa reflection of value and worth
(16:39):
and respect for each other in themidst of very, very deep loss.
And dare I say, Lucy, that a lot ofthat leadership comes from you because
you mirror, you actually mirror that.
So Paula, what comes to your mindis, as we talk about Lucy, as a
sister, and her care for her brother.
Paula (16:59):
You mentioned, Lucy, how the sibling group was a pioneer group.
You notice that the more attentionseemed to go to the partner, or the
parents, and not so much the siblings.
Is this something that now,I mean, it's like, how many
years have you been doing this?
If you don't mind me asking?
Lucy (17:21):
So the sibling group is about a year and a half now,
something like a year and a half.
It's still our baby group.
Paula (17:29):
And what stories have you heard from people who have
become part of that sibling group?
I know Tesse is part of it.
Of course you're part of it becauseyou're the pioneer, you came up with it.
But what other stories canyou tell us without, you know,
spilling any confidentiality?
How else have people been helped?
Lucy (17:49):
So we hear from siblings who were bereaved years ago, and I mean,
over 50 years ago, in some cases, andnever had a space to talk about it.
And so they're coming now at a pointthat is much later in their life.
And having that space for the first time,and almost being able to acknowledge
(18:10):
that loss for the first time, andthat's really humbling actually.
And they act as a kind of beaconfor the rest of us, really.
And here is someone that has survivedlife, that has navigated life without
their sibling, but of course, evennow, they still feel the loss,
and that's quite beautiful to havethem there and what they offer.
(18:34):
And then we hear from siblingswho are, you know, in the midst of
their studies or their career andthey're really knocked off course
by the loss and they have to change.
They have to adapt.
They have to be resilient andaccept that maybe their path is
going to be very different now.
People that were at university studyingand they have to accept that they just
(18:55):
can't do what they first set out to.
And that's powerful.
And we hear from siblings who are almostat breaking point, dare I say, because
they've sort of been told by those aroundthem that your loss does not matter as
much as someone else's, so they bury itand they hide it and they feel that they
(19:19):
can't express that and they bottle it up.
And you know, with that kind ofgrief it eats you from the inside.
And so there is so much there andeveryone's loss, you know, it's individual
to them, but we have bonds, similarties.
And what you see, and what I've seen insome of my other groups, but what I think
(19:42):
I see more intensely with the siblingsis people come in and it's as though
the weight of the world is on theirshoulders and then they can breathe, and
their shoulders can go back a little bit.
And it's purely because they'rebeing told, we understand.
We understand, and you can feelwhat you feel and that's not
(20:04):
wrong, and I think it's beautiful.
And Tesse brings, you know, she saysshe's the mama Tesse but let me tell you,
Tesse brings so much wisdom to that group.
Every time Tesse speaks, it isarticulate and thoughtful and just
so, you know, meant from the heartand sums things up and she just brings
(20:28):
this, you know, she talks about meholding this space, but it's all about
the people that come into that space.
And Tesse brings so much beautyto that group, so you know.
Tesse (20:38):
You know, you, you have brought, and this is something,
you know, we just cut to thissister's love and that sister's
love it's about your middle brother.
It's about your older brother.
It's about you and what a sistercan be or a brother can be.
My personal story is you've taughtme a lot about love, period.
But also about valuing those inthe family, brothers and sisters
(21:01):
in the family, and knowing thatwe only have now to do that.
We only have now, we don'thave tomorrow, we don't know.
And in your tribute to Peter, I'msure he's very proud of his sister.
Lucy (21:18):
I hope so Tesse.
I don't know, maybe one day I'llsee him again and I hope so.
I hope so.
I, you know, owe him so much and so,I don't know, sometimes people say you
should take a rest or whatever, but I knowthat for the rest of my life, I will do
what I come to work for him in his memory.
Tesse (21:41):
Yeah, what other things are you doing to celebrate Peter this year?
Because this is a big year, isn't it?
It's 10 years celebration, isn't it?
Lucy (21:48):
It's scary, you know, because some days it feels 10 years.
You feel the distance, you think, oh, Ihaven't heard him laugh in 10 years, wow.
And other days it's, two minutes, youknow, you think I can recall it like it
was yesterday, but we are going first.
I've said my brother loved horseracing, so we are going to Cheltenham.
(22:10):
I'm going with his friends, which isgoing to be emotional, because whenever
I'm with his friends, I always sortof expect him to walk in and it's
a reminder that he's not going to.
But be with his friends, hopefullyit will be a really fun day.
That's definitely somethinghe would approve of.
I love to write poetry, so I'm goingto try and write something to mark
(22:31):
the 10 years, and to maybe try andsum up some of what us siblings feel.
And I'm trying to, you know, I'mtrying to embody a little bit of his
live in the moment type personality.
I'm not always great at that,but I certainly had some fun
times with my friends this year.
Yeah, I had a weekend in Butlinswith my two best friends and it
(22:54):
was, in many ways, so cringy.
But we laughed so much, and we jokedso much, and he would love that.
So, yeah, and I paid for that withsome money that actually came from
him, which made it very special.
Tesse (23:10):
Wow, wow, wow.
Paula, you're pensive.
Paula (23:16):
Yeah, I'm thinking, thinking about so many things.
But, did I hear you say you prayed for himwith someone that made it very special?
Lucy (23:25):
Oh no, sorry, I paid for the weekend.
Paula (23:27):
Oh, you paid for the weekend.
Lucy (23:29):
Yeah, with something from him.
But I do pray.
I do pray for him, actually, most nights.
Paula (23:36):
Yeah, and on that note, I mean, Tesse says I'm pensive because
I'm thinking of so many siblings Iknow who have lost their siblings.
I don't know whether it makes anydifference whether you came from a
two sibling or a multi sibling family.
It's still a loss.
And so, you know, Lucy, thank youso much for what you are doing,
(23:58):
what you have done, and whatyou continue, you know, to do.
Because as you said, siblings do get leftbehind many times, and it's important
to remember them because they're lostis different, but it's still a loss.
And so that's why we do"TesseLeads" because your
precious stories and life matter.
(24:21):
And so we always encourage our gueststo share them with us and let them
know that they are supported andnurtured and that they're never alone.
These stories will reach so many heartsbecause, you know, it's not if, it's when,
somebody, we are going to lose someone.
And so for our listeners, we ask thatyou head over to "Apple Podcasts",
(24:44):
"Google Podcasts", well we don'tdo Google Podcasts anymore, but
we do"Youtube" and " Spotify, oranywhere you listen to a podcast
and please, click, click, subscribe.
We also ask that you share it with yourfriends, because these stories do matter.
And if you have found "TesseLeads"helpful, and in particular, this episode,
(25:06):
please let us know in your review.
And if you have any questions ortopics you'd like us to cover,
we ask that you send us a note.
And last but not least, if you'd liketo be a guest on our show, "TesseLeads",
please head over to our website,which is "www.tesseleads", to apply.
Thank you so much, Lucy.
(25:28):
I know lives have beenchanged listening to this.
Tesse (25:32):
Oh, I'm telling you, when I talk about Lucy, I think of his sister's love.
Lucy, thank you for telling your story.
Lucy (25:40):
Thank you for allowing that.
It means a lot.
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