July 31, 2024 • 23 mins
Considering the theme, vulnerability - my journey towards connecting with myself, David Taylor-Klaus or DTK thinks out loud, “What if you started off with, what will this look like when it's easy? What a different mindset, what is a different way to look at it? Imagine how this invites possibility by envisioning? Vulnerability shows up when I bombed that one, I learned one way not to do it, considered what if I try that? If you believe that you can, you have a much better chance of being able to. If you believe you can't, you're right”.
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Episode Transcript
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Paula (00:01):
Welcome to "TesseLeads" with your host, "Tesse Akpeki,
and co host, me, Paula Okonneh.
"TesseLeads" is a safe, sensitive,and supportive place and space to
share, hear, and tell all your storiesand experiences, and we mean all.
We get super curious about thedilemma that shape our future and
(00:24):
the journeys that we are all on.
Today's topic is on vulnerability.
And it's called "vulnerability and myjourney towards connecting with myself".
Our guest is David Taylor Klaus.
And normally I would read his bio, butnow today he's going to introduce himself.
(00:48):
So welcome to "TesseLeads"and floor is yours.
David (00:52):
Great to be here.
Thank you.
You know, I love chatting with you two.
Paula (00:56):
We love you too.
David (00:57):
Introduction.
You know, I'm always fascinated by theopportunity to introduce myself because
so often when I'm introduced, you getto hear the whole boring biography.
And what I do professionally is fine,but that's just a fraction of who I am.
I spend a lot of my time in theworld ranting against the lie that
(01:17):
is work life balance and teachingpeople life rhythm instead.
And I do that because I spend areally long time getting it wrong
and being over calibrated and overperforming and over exhausted.
Yes, I've been an entrepreneur for 30odd years, but the things I'm proudest
of, the things that define me more,I've been married to a woman I've known
(01:41):
since I was 11 for 32 years as of nextweek, we have three kids that we're
all active parts of each other's lives.
You know, the love is hard.
I mean, love is easy.
That's the stuff that'sbaked in like is hard.
And we all like each other.
And got a fabulous daughter in law andsome adorable, significant others that
(02:03):
are dating the ones that aren't married.
So they're all part of our world.
And I define myself by my impact wakewith friends, with family, with community.
And yeah, as a professional coach forentrepreneurs and executives, I'm really
attentive to what my impact wake is there.
That's just a portion of my life, right?
(02:25):
So who am I?
At the core, I'm a leaderand I have a lot of fun.
So how's that forcapturing who I am, Paula?
Paula (02:35):
I absolutely love it.
And I'm sure if I asked you to repeatthat again, we'll get a different
version, but just as impactful.
David (02:46):
My wife, a bunch of years ago, went to New York to film some
videos for a health care company.
And they got the room all set up,all the production people, and at
one point the director says, oh, thatwas great, but one of the lights was
messed up, can you do that again?
And Elaine said, No,you asked me a question.
I answered it.
I couldn't possibly answerit the same way again.
(03:08):
And what she and I talked about afterthat is that, you know, when she's
completely present in the moment, she'sable to answer it and bring everything
that's part of who she is to that.
But she's not conscious of what she'ssaying as she's saying it because she's
totally present to the moment and workeda really long time to be able to do that.
To be so present to the momentand so clear about what my
(03:32):
message is and what my purpose is.
When I come from there, that's when,in fact, I believe it's the only time
when I have the impact I want to have.
So, thank you for that opportunity.
Tesse (03:44):
That's so powerful, David.
It's really, really powerful.
You know, when I, when Paula andI talked about what we'll ask you
today, connecting with yourself.
You don't know I'm going to ask thatquestion, but I said to Paula that from
the first moment I met you virtually,you seem to me like somebody who is
connected with yourself, warts and all.
(04:05):
And I was so curious about thatlevel of connection to yourself.
And that curiosity is leadingme to say a bit more about that.
What footsteps have helped youto be in this place of present
in the moment, present to others?
David (04:22):
So probably an answer you're not expecting, but 40 years of navigating
depression has been critical to that.
You know, so much of what happens whenyou have depression is perseverating over
the past or freaking out about the future.
You cannot imagine the futuresI've invented and imagined
that never happened, right?
And sitting with depression, youlearn to be present to the moment,
(04:45):
to what's real and what's there.
And it's also a brilliant way tosee what your impact is on others.
Because you can't help but seewhat your impact is in the moment
when you're present to the moment.
As opposed to, oh my God,what were they thinking?
What are they thinking now?
All the things that we do whenwe recast what's happened.
There's a fabulous author whorecently passed away, whose
(05:06):
name now I can't remember.
But the quote is, "you'll, you'llfind you worry less about what
other people think about you whenyou realize how seldom they do".
We're all so wrapped up living our ownlives and figuring out our own stuff
that we're very rarely thinking aboutother people as much as other people
think they're being thought about.
(05:27):
And so as a way to engage withother people, let's look at
it in terms of a marriage.
You can't engage with your partnerwho they used to be and be in
service of the relationship.
You can't be in relationship with theperson you hope they'll become and
be in service of the relationship.
Because the only time the relationshipis happening is right now.
(05:47):
And when we're interacting with theperson that we're in relationship with, as
anybody other than who I am in the moment,who they are in the moment, you're not
in relationship, you're in a tug of war.
And no, I'm not a relationship coach,and yet, when you look at how you
are being in the world, wow, isn'tthat the ultimate form of leadership?
(06:09):
Being aware of how you're being inthe world and how you want to be?
So I think that has a lot to dowith my connection with myself.
And by the way, being connected withmyself, warts and all, the warts
aren't hard to be in connection with.
I mean, I think a lot of us are reallyclear on the warts about ourselves.
The work is getting clearabout the shiny bits, right?
The positive elements and reallyowning everything in between.
(06:32):
That's what's important about beingconnected to yourself is the full range.
Tesse (06:38):
I love it.
The shiny bits, the bits in between.
I really, really love it.
You know, you talk about, and no, I'mnot surprised about the depression piece.
I'm not surprised about that.
Because whenever we connect with you,there's something about your understanding
that comes across and it's like itbridges things, it's a bridging thing,
(07:02):
and that comes from somewhere very deep,that is healing, that is uncovering.
You can't actually make that up.
You can't really make that up.
You know, that is somethingthat exists in you.
So along that journey, were there somethings that were laid bare for you that
you kind of, as you began to do theshiny bits in between till now, were
(07:26):
there some kind of high, you know, Iwouldn't say, I want to say highlights.
But it's things that accordfor you that you said, yeah,
aha, for you in that journey.
David (07:35):
Yeah, my physical presence and the impact of it.
I'm not a large human being.
I think before I started theinevitable age gifted shrinking.
I was about five, justshy of five foot 11.
Sorry, I don't know to translate that.
And.
I never realized how imposingthat can be for people that are
(07:58):
smaller, or if I get too close.
And I tend to be very energetic andeffusive, and in person my energy can
be very large, much larger than I am.
And it was a very hard lesson for me tolearn that sometimes my excitement and
enthusiasm can come across threatening.
And whenever the gap betweenone's intended impact and one's
(08:21):
actual impact is drawn intostark reveal, wow, that can suck.
It's way past painful.
It's a rude awakening.
And learning to be attentiveabout my unintended impact and
even the unspoken impact that'sthat changed my leadership a lot.
And it wasn't about recoiling,it was about paying attention
(08:45):
to my leadership wake.
And for me that languagehas always been important.
You know, whether you've ever beenin a boat or not, the important thing
is as a boat or any, or any airshipmoves through space, it has a wake that
trails behind it, a wake of impact.
The air and the water are disturbedand it impacts other things around it.
(09:09):
And leaders are just like that, right?
As you move through a space, I had aclient where one of the partners lived
several hours away, seven hours away.
And he would drive in for, you know,late morning meetings on Monday
and go back home Thursday evening.
And oh my God, if he had a bad driveon that Monday, oh my, as he walked
(09:33):
to the office, his energy, thatirritation and agitation was permeating.
It was setting the weather.
And as he walked through, you couldwatch people in the office shrink.
And he wondered why Mondayswere hell in the office.
Right.
He was totally oblivious to his impact,because he would stomp through there,
(09:53):
get into his office, collect himself,and then come back out, and everybody's
shattered waiting for the explosion.
And he's all happy, nowhe's at his cup of coffee.
He's ready to be human andnobody wants to be near him.
And he starts to cave inbecause he feels excluded.
Doesn't feel like he belong.
And he's complaining tome and my own company.
I've been here 25 years.
(10:14):
I'm one of the founders andI don't feel like I belong.
So I think as people become awareof their impact wake, personally,
professionally, you name it.
I think that's a critical piece tolearning how to have the impact in the
world you want to have in the world byunpacking the impact you are having.
Tesse (10:32):
Wow.
Impact wake.
Consciousness.
Paula (10:36):
That's the word that's jumping out for me," Impact Wake".
Yeah.
David, you have a lot of gifts.
Every time I speak withyou, I leave, I've learned.
I tell myself, let me go back track.
I tell myself every day when I wakeup, I have to learn something new.
But every time that we do have aconversation with you, I learned
some things, not just something new.
(10:58):
And Impact wake makes me thinkof, you got a lot of gifts.
What would you say your greatest gift is?
You're not boasting.
You know, just now you talked aboutwhen you discovered that you had an
impact, sometimes that wasn't positive.
You said you didn't recoil, youjust became more aware of it.
So this is kind of like the opposite.
What would you say your greatest gift is?
(11:19):
You're not boasting, butyou're just aware of it.
David (11:22):
Yeah.
And thanks for asking.
I think it has to do with myability to read energy and connect.
And by the way, yes, some of it'sinstinct, some of it was necessary
as a mechanism for navigating theworld that I came through, and some
of it is hard earned and practiced.
But it's the ability to read theenergy of the space and respond to it.
Even if it's not at this point,conscious, because it makes a difference.
(11:45):
I've walked into room as the, I don'tknow what number presenter I was, but
the last person had just spent 90 minutesin the room talking with people about
their experiences with sexual assault.
And I walk into the room and oh myGod, you know, my conversation that
I was going to be having in theroom was going to be in a totally
different direction and very energetic.
And I walk into the roomand I just felt the weight.
(12:08):
If I'd come in and talked about whatI had planned to talk about, it would
have been not just tone deaf, it wouldhave been emotionally an assault.
And so I had to change everythingabout the way I approached the room.
How I moved onto the stage.
How I greeted people.
How I started the conversation.
What we talked about,it changed everything.
(12:30):
And so my 90 minutes was nothing that hadbeen written and prepared and practiced.
And I think it's importantto be able to read the room,
the space, the relationship.
Now trust me, I am not a hundredpercent and I am reminded of that by
my children and my spouse every day.
When I misread what's there, and youknow, we've had conversations about,
(12:50):
you make a mess, you clean it up, youknow, you don't sweep it under the rug.
Yeah, it's learning howto read what's there.
It's something that I doexceptionally well, and I think it's
one of the reasons I have been assuccessful as I've been as a coach.
Paula (13:05):
I agree.
That is a great gift.
Tesse?
Tesse (13:07):
Yeah.
I mean, you know, it's not oftenthat I'm quiet, but it's true.
I've just kind of taken that inthe greatest gift to read the room.
You know, I'm thinking particularly ofsomething that I heard this week, which
was that when we are traumatized andsometimes we're not even aware of the
(13:27):
impact of the trauma, then we can miscue.
We can mishear.
We can miscue.
We can misinterpret.
We can go into a place of such negativity.
Back to the example you're giving thatthe world becomes a hard place for us
and others because of the miscuing.
And why I was silent was that Iwas listening to what you were
(13:51):
saying, David, and how you readthe room and adjust accordingly.
And this question, in terms of yourjourney towards connecting with yourself,
is how can others, any kind of tipsyou have for them being able to connect
with, you know, themselves in a way thatthat misreading is not as impactful.
(14:12):
I mean, I know for myself and Paula youknow this, I could misread like anything
and what I'm misreading, what I'm feeling,it's real for me, but actually it's
not there the way that I think it is.
And it's a real getting better isbeing able to see and feel more of what
really is there, rather than what isimagined because of the trauma you've
(14:33):
been through, or I've been through.
Does that make any sense?
That question?
David (14:37):
And it does.
It's the Responding to what'sreally there is a sticky point.
Because you and I have a conversation.
There are three versionsof that conversation.
There's what was actually said,there's how I experienced it, and
there's how you experienced it.
And it's very rare thatany pair of them align.
And so I think it's important thatthat, it's almost like we all have
(15:00):
our own personal sense of reality.
So part of the connection piece isgrace, and part of it is, I don't
think how to say it, because we can'tchange or impact what happens to us.
The only control we haveis how we respond to it.
And when we respond to what occursby labeling it and having an
(15:22):
emotional response to that and sayingthat that's exactly what happened
and only what happened and I amabsolutely right, that's what it is.
Wow, you're stuck, right?
Because then there are noother ways to look at it.
There are no other options to see it.
In any experience, if we can say,oh, well, what else could that mean?
What else could that mean?
And what else in yourselflike a five year old does?
Ooh, what else?
(15:43):
What else?
Beyond reason, come up with as manydifferent ways to see it as possible.
It allows you to get curious about what'sthe filter through which I'm seeing it?
What's the lens I'm seeing this through?
And whether it's something that comesfrom trauma or anything in the way
we've been educated or socialized oracculturated, doesn't matter that's
(16:05):
the lens you use to collect evidence.
So the lenses I use to see theworld color the evidence that I
collect, and the evidence that Icollect determines my experience.
So if we change our lens,we change our lives.
This is the chance to say,oh, how else can I see this?
What if he just had a crappy driveand is storming through the office
because that guy cut him off rightbefore he got in the parking lot?
(16:27):
What if this has nothing to do with me?
What if it's just like last week?
Right?
I wonder what's going on with him.
I wonder what's really going on.
I wonder what's going on with me.
Who did that remind me of?
There's so many things.
It's like put on that hat and becomethe fascinated anthropologist and
say, ooh, what's going on there?
What else could it be?
(16:48):
What else could it be?
When you get out of the clutter ofbeing sure and right about something
you open up an amazing amount ofpossibility, and that's where you
can really meet yourself, right?
It's not the things that we know.
It's not the thing,what did Mark Twain say?
It's not the things that don't,It's not the things that we don't
know that gets us in trouble.
It's the things we knowfor sure that we know.
Tesse (17:10):
Wow.
David (17:11):
That's where we get stuck.
Tesse (17:11):
I love it.
I really do.
And the question that is cominginto my mind is what you, the David
sitting, looking at Paula and I,you know, seeing you, what would
you say to the younger David, youknow, knowing what you know now.
David (17:29):
Lighten up.
Stop taking everything to them.
Seriously.
I mean, seriously.
And by the way, the youngerDavid could be 30 or 15 or 10.
Doesn't matter.
Maybe 40.
We, I took everything so seriously.
I continually get better at that.
It's, nothing is lifeand death except dying.
(17:51):
Nothing.
Yet we make up so much that islife and death, that is severe,
that is the end of the world.
No, it's not.
I mean, the planet's going tosurvive us anyway, so none of us are
going to see the end of the world.
We just make up that it'sthe end of our world.
And it's not.
Every one of us, here in the roomand watching, has experienced things
(18:13):
that we never thought we'd get over.
We've taken on things that we thoughtwere impossible and achieved them.
We've had things forced uponus that we never wanted to do
and never thought we could.
And guess what?
We did.
It happens all the time.
We make stuff up.
What if we made up the opposite?
It's delusional to thinkyou can't do things.
(18:35):
It's as delusional asit is to think you can.
Well, why not pick the one that serves?
If I believe everything I look atis impossible or insurmountable,
or if it fails, it's the endof the world, guess what?
It is.
But if I look at it is, oh, okay, Ibombed that one, I learned one way
not to do it, what if I try that?
If you believe that you can, you havea much better chance of being able to.
(18:57):
If you believe youcan't, oh, you're right.
Tesse (18:59):
Yeah, heh heh.
David (19:00):
I had a client, It was just such a simple thing.
A client was about to have to moveand they said, this move is going
to be hard and it's going to suck.
I said, yes, it will be becauseyou just decided it will be.
What if you started off with, whatwill this look like when it's easy?
What a different mindset, whata different way to look at it.
What will this look like when it's easy?
Tesse (19:19):
I love that question.
David (19:20):
I wish I'd done that when I was a lot younger.
Tesse (19:22):
I love that question.
What would it look like if it's easy?
Paula, what do you think of that question?
Paula (19:28):
I think that's like a key message.
What would it look like if it's easy?
I mean, we hear it in different ways.
Tesse (19:35):
Or when?
When it's easy?
Yeah.
Paula (19:37):
Yeah.
What would it look like?
David (19:38):
It is because, you know, I heard Tim Ferriss say, what if it were easy?
And what I don't likeabout that is the if.
It gets you out of envisioning a reality.
What will this look like when it's easy?
Is it puts your brain into imagining.
And everything that you seearound you that you experienced
in the world was created twice,once in here and once out there.
(20:02):
If you give yourself the prompt toimagine, to envision, to picture, to
feel into what will this look likewhen it's easy, it changes, it makes
things possible or possible, right?
Invite possibility by envisioning.
Tesse (20:21):
I love it.
David (20:21):
But that's the reason PTSD is so nightmarish and difficult to work with.
Because your brain doesn't differentiatebetween imagining it in the future,
experiencing it and reliving it in thepast, so your brain doesn't differentiate.
They did some cool research withprofessional pianists and, you know, put
(20:44):
a little functional MRI in their headand have them play a piano and you see
what part of the brain lights up andthen take away the piano, put a piece
of paper with a keyboard printed on itin front of them, and then have them
play the keyboard, the printed keyboard.
The exact same portionsof the brain light up.
They're not hearing anythingexcept the ticking of their finger.
(21:06):
So what's fascinating is ourbrain doesn't differentiate.
And yes, they've done it withoutanything in front of them, except
playing the piano in the air.
Same thing, brain lights up.
Your brain doesn't distinguish.
So what will this look like whenit's easy invites you into creation?
Paula (21:22):
That's so great because my last question to you was going to
be what is your key message for ourlisteners, but you have said it.
I think we're going to end on that.
What would it look like when it is easy?
I think that's something that we all needto think about because we wake up every
day and we have the whole day ahead ofus and we can say, oh gosh, it's going
(21:44):
to be the worst or, just what you said.
David thank you for that.
I love it.
I love it.
Wow.
And again, to our listeners, wewant to say, you see, your precious
stories and your lives matter.
We ask them to share it with usand others, just like David did.
(22:05):
Because we believe in supporting,encouraging, and nurturing
others, especially when theyknow that they're not alone.
And so, again, I say to my listeners,please head over to "Apple Podcasts",
"Spotify" and now that Google Podcasts ismoving over to YouTube Music, please head
(22:25):
over there, and please click subscribe.
And if you find "TesseLeads" helpful,please let us know in your reviews.
If you have any questions or topics you'dlike us to cover, you can send us a note.
And if you'd like to be a guest onour show, "TesseLeads", head over to
the website, which is "www.tesseleads.
(22:48):
com" and apply.
Again, I'm going to say thatkey message is the bomb.
Thank you, David.
Tesse (22:54):
Thank you.
David, you have illuminatedour world again.
Thank you so much.
David (23:03):
Thanks for having me.
Welcome to "TesseLeads" with your host, "Tesse Akpeki,
and co host, me, Paula Okonneh.
"TesseLeads" is a safe, sensitive,and supportive place and space to
share, hear, and tell all your storiesand experiences, and we mean all.
We get super curious about thedilemma that shape our future and
(00:24):
the journeys that we are all on.
Today's topic is on vulnerability.
And it's called "vulnerability and myjourney towards connecting with myself".
Our guest is David Taylor Klaus.
And normally I would read his bio, butnow today he's going to introduce himself.
(00:48):
So welcome to "TesseLeads"and floor is yours.
David (00:52):
Great to be here.
Thank you.
You know, I love chatting with you two.
Paula (00:56):
We love you too.
David (00:57):
Introduction.
You know, I'm always fascinated by theopportunity to introduce myself because
so often when I'm introduced, you getto hear the whole boring biography.
And what I do professionally is fine,but that's just a fraction of who I am.
I spend a lot of my time in theworld ranting against the lie that
(01:17):
is work life balance and teachingpeople life rhythm instead.
And I do that because I spend areally long time getting it wrong
and being over calibrated and overperforming and over exhausted.
Yes, I've been an entrepreneur for 30odd years, but the things I'm proudest
of, the things that define me more,I've been married to a woman I've known
(01:41):
since I was 11 for 32 years as of nextweek, we have three kids that we're
all active parts of each other's lives.
You know, the love is hard.
I mean, love is easy.
That's the stuff that'sbaked in like is hard.
And we all like each other.
And got a fabulous daughter in law andsome adorable, significant others that
(02:03):
are dating the ones that aren't married.
So they're all part of our world.
And I define myself by my impact wakewith friends, with family, with community.
And yeah, as a professional coach forentrepreneurs and executives, I'm really
attentive to what my impact wake is there.
That's just a portion of my life, right?
(02:25):
So who am I?
At the core, I'm a leaderand I have a lot of fun.
So how's that forcapturing who I am, Paula?
Paula (02:35):
I absolutely love it.
And I'm sure if I asked you to repeatthat again, we'll get a different
version, but just as impactful.
David (02:46):
My wife, a bunch of years ago, went to New York to film some
videos for a health care company.
And they got the room all set up,all the production people, and at
one point the director says, oh, thatwas great, but one of the lights was
messed up, can you do that again?
And Elaine said, No,you asked me a question.
I answered it.
I couldn't possibly answerit the same way again.
(03:08):
And what she and I talked about afterthat is that, you know, when she's
completely present in the moment, she'sable to answer it and bring everything
that's part of who she is to that.
But she's not conscious of what she'ssaying as she's saying it because she's
totally present to the moment and workeda really long time to be able to do that.
To be so present to the momentand so clear about what my
(03:32):
message is and what my purpose is.
When I come from there, that's when,in fact, I believe it's the only time
when I have the impact I want to have.
So, thank you for that opportunity.
Tesse (03:44):
That's so powerful, David.
It's really, really powerful.
You know, when I, when Paula andI talked about what we'll ask you
today, connecting with yourself.
You don't know I'm going to ask thatquestion, but I said to Paula that from
the first moment I met you virtually,you seem to me like somebody who is
connected with yourself, warts and all.
(04:05):
And I was so curious about thatlevel of connection to yourself.
And that curiosity is leadingme to say a bit more about that.
What footsteps have helped youto be in this place of present
in the moment, present to others?
David (04:22):
So probably an answer you're not expecting, but 40 years of navigating
depression has been critical to that.
You know, so much of what happens whenyou have depression is perseverating over
the past or freaking out about the future.
You cannot imagine the futuresI've invented and imagined
that never happened, right?
And sitting with depression, youlearn to be present to the moment,
(04:45):
to what's real and what's there.
And it's also a brilliant way tosee what your impact is on others.
Because you can't help but seewhat your impact is in the moment
when you're present to the moment.
As opposed to, oh my God,what were they thinking?
What are they thinking now?
All the things that we do whenwe recast what's happened.
There's a fabulous author whorecently passed away, whose
(05:06):
name now I can't remember.
But the quote is, "you'll, you'llfind you worry less about what
other people think about you whenyou realize how seldom they do".
We're all so wrapped up living our ownlives and figuring out our own stuff
that we're very rarely thinking aboutother people as much as other people
think they're being thought about.
(05:27):
And so as a way to engage withother people, let's look at
it in terms of a marriage.
You can't engage with your partnerwho they used to be and be in
service of the relationship.
You can't be in relationship with theperson you hope they'll become and
be in service of the relationship.
Because the only time the relationshipis happening is right now.
(05:47):
And when we're interacting with theperson that we're in relationship with, as
anybody other than who I am in the moment,who they are in the moment, you're not
in relationship, you're in a tug of war.
And no, I'm not a relationship coach,and yet, when you look at how you
are being in the world, wow, isn'tthat the ultimate form of leadership?
(06:09):
Being aware of how you're being inthe world and how you want to be?
So I think that has a lot to dowith my connection with myself.
And by the way, being connected withmyself, warts and all, the warts
aren't hard to be in connection with.
I mean, I think a lot of us are reallyclear on the warts about ourselves.
The work is getting clearabout the shiny bits, right?
The positive elements and reallyowning everything in between.
(06:32):
That's what's important about beingconnected to yourself is the full range.
Tesse (06:38):
I love it.
The shiny bits, the bits in between.
I really, really love it.
You know, you talk about, and no, I'mnot surprised about the depression piece.
I'm not surprised about that.
Because whenever we connect with you,there's something about your understanding
that comes across and it's like itbridges things, it's a bridging thing,
(07:02):
and that comes from somewhere very deep,that is healing, that is uncovering.
You can't actually make that up.
You can't really make that up.
You know, that is somethingthat exists in you.
So along that journey, were there somethings that were laid bare for you that
you kind of, as you began to do theshiny bits in between till now, were
(07:26):
there some kind of high, you know, Iwouldn't say, I want to say highlights.
But it's things that accordfor you that you said, yeah,
aha, for you in that journey.
David (07:35):
Yeah, my physical presence and the impact of it.
I'm not a large human being.
I think before I started theinevitable age gifted shrinking.
I was about five, justshy of five foot 11.
Sorry, I don't know to translate that.
And.
I never realized how imposingthat can be for people that are
(07:58):
smaller, or if I get too close.
And I tend to be very energetic andeffusive, and in person my energy can
be very large, much larger than I am.
And it was a very hard lesson for me tolearn that sometimes my excitement and
enthusiasm can come across threatening.
And whenever the gap betweenone's intended impact and one's
(08:21):
actual impact is drawn intostark reveal, wow, that can suck.
It's way past painful.
It's a rude awakening.
And learning to be attentiveabout my unintended impact and
even the unspoken impact that'sthat changed my leadership a lot.
And it wasn't about recoiling,it was about paying attention
(08:45):
to my leadership wake.
And for me that languagehas always been important.
You know, whether you've ever beenin a boat or not, the important thing
is as a boat or any, or any airshipmoves through space, it has a wake that
trails behind it, a wake of impact.
The air and the water are disturbedand it impacts other things around it.
(09:09):
And leaders are just like that, right?
As you move through a space, I had aclient where one of the partners lived
several hours away, seven hours away.
And he would drive in for, you know,late morning meetings on Monday
and go back home Thursday evening.
And oh my God, if he had a bad driveon that Monday, oh my, as he walked
(09:33):
to the office, his energy, thatirritation and agitation was permeating.
It was setting the weather.
And as he walked through, you couldwatch people in the office shrink.
And he wondered why Mondayswere hell in the office.
Right.
He was totally oblivious to his impact,because he would stomp through there,
(09:53):
get into his office, collect himself,and then come back out, and everybody's
shattered waiting for the explosion.
And he's all happy, nowhe's at his cup of coffee.
He's ready to be human andnobody wants to be near him.
And he starts to cave inbecause he feels excluded.
Doesn't feel like he belong.
And he's complaining tome and my own company.
I've been here 25 years.
(10:14):
I'm one of the founders andI don't feel like I belong.
So I think as people become awareof their impact wake, personally,
professionally, you name it.
I think that's a critical piece tolearning how to have the impact in the
world you want to have in the world byunpacking the impact you are having.
Tesse (10:32):
Wow.
Impact wake.
Consciousness.
Paula (10:36):
That's the word that's jumping out for me," Impact Wake".
Yeah.
David, you have a lot of gifts.
Every time I speak withyou, I leave, I've learned.
I tell myself, let me go back track.
I tell myself every day when I wakeup, I have to learn something new.
But every time that we do have aconversation with you, I learned
some things, not just something new.
(10:58):
And Impact wake makes me thinkof, you got a lot of gifts.
What would you say your greatest gift is?
You're not boasting.
You know, just now you talked aboutwhen you discovered that you had an
impact, sometimes that wasn't positive.
You said you didn't recoil, youjust became more aware of it.
So this is kind of like the opposite.
What would you say your greatest gift is?
(11:19):
You're not boasting, butyou're just aware of it.
David (11:22):
Yeah.
And thanks for asking.
I think it has to do with myability to read energy and connect.
And by the way, yes, some of it'sinstinct, some of it was necessary
as a mechanism for navigating theworld that I came through, and some
of it is hard earned and practiced.
But it's the ability to read theenergy of the space and respond to it.
Even if it's not at this point,conscious, because it makes a difference.
(11:45):
I've walked into room as the, I don'tknow what number presenter I was, but
the last person had just spent 90 minutesin the room talking with people about
their experiences with sexual assault.
And I walk into the room and oh myGod, you know, my conversation that
I was going to be having in theroom was going to be in a totally
different direction and very energetic.
And I walk into the roomand I just felt the weight.
(12:08):
If I'd come in and talked about whatI had planned to talk about, it would
have been not just tone deaf, it wouldhave been emotionally an assault.
And so I had to change everythingabout the way I approached the room.
How I moved onto the stage.
How I greeted people.
How I started the conversation.
What we talked about,it changed everything.
(12:30):
And so my 90 minutes was nothing that hadbeen written and prepared and practiced.
And I think it's importantto be able to read the room,
the space, the relationship.
Now trust me, I am not a hundredpercent and I am reminded of that by
my children and my spouse every day.
When I misread what's there, and youknow, we've had conversations about,
(12:50):
you make a mess, you clean it up, youknow, you don't sweep it under the rug.
Yeah, it's learning howto read what's there.
It's something that I doexceptionally well, and I think it's
one of the reasons I have been assuccessful as I've been as a coach.
Paula (13:05):
I agree.
That is a great gift.
Tesse?
Tesse (13:07):
Yeah.
I mean, you know, it's not oftenthat I'm quiet, but it's true.
I've just kind of taken that inthe greatest gift to read the room.
You know, I'm thinking particularly ofsomething that I heard this week, which
was that when we are traumatized andsometimes we're not even aware of the
(13:27):
impact of the trauma, then we can miscue.
We can mishear.
We can miscue.
We can misinterpret.
We can go into a place of such negativity.
Back to the example you're giving thatthe world becomes a hard place for us
and others because of the miscuing.
And why I was silent was that Iwas listening to what you were
(13:51):
saying, David, and how you readthe room and adjust accordingly.
And this question, in terms of yourjourney towards connecting with yourself,
is how can others, any kind of tipsyou have for them being able to connect
with, you know, themselves in a way thatthat misreading is not as impactful.
(14:12):
I mean, I know for myself and Paula youknow this, I could misread like anything
and what I'm misreading, what I'm feeling,it's real for me, but actually it's
not there the way that I think it is.
And it's a real getting better isbeing able to see and feel more of what
really is there, rather than what isimagined because of the trauma you've
(14:33):
been through, or I've been through.
Does that make any sense?
That question?
David (14:37):
And it does.
It's the Responding to what'sreally there is a sticky point.
Because you and I have a conversation.
There are three versionsof that conversation.
There's what was actually said,there's how I experienced it, and
there's how you experienced it.
And it's very rare thatany pair of them align.
And so I think it's important thatthat, it's almost like we all have
(15:00):
our own personal sense of reality.
So part of the connection piece isgrace, and part of it is, I don't
think how to say it, because we can'tchange or impact what happens to us.
The only control we haveis how we respond to it.
And when we respond to what occursby labeling it and having an
(15:22):
emotional response to that and sayingthat that's exactly what happened
and only what happened and I amabsolutely right, that's what it is.
Wow, you're stuck, right?
Because then there are noother ways to look at it.
There are no other options to see it.
In any experience, if we can say,oh, well, what else could that mean?
What else could that mean?
And what else in yourselflike a five year old does?
Ooh, what else?
(15:43):
What else?
Beyond reason, come up with as manydifferent ways to see it as possible.
It allows you to get curious about what'sthe filter through which I'm seeing it?
What's the lens I'm seeing this through?
And whether it's something that comesfrom trauma or anything in the way
we've been educated or socialized oracculturated, doesn't matter that's
(16:05):
the lens you use to collect evidence.
So the lenses I use to see theworld color the evidence that I
collect, and the evidence that Icollect determines my experience.
So if we change our lens,we change our lives.
This is the chance to say,oh, how else can I see this?
What if he just had a crappy driveand is storming through the office
because that guy cut him off rightbefore he got in the parking lot?
(16:27):
What if this has nothing to do with me?
What if it's just like last week?
Right?
I wonder what's going on with him.
I wonder what's really going on.
I wonder what's going on with me.
Who did that remind me of?
There's so many things.
It's like put on that hat and becomethe fascinated anthropologist and
say, ooh, what's going on there?
What else could it be?
(16:48):
What else could it be?
When you get out of the clutter ofbeing sure and right about something
you open up an amazing amount ofpossibility, and that's where you
can really meet yourself, right?
It's not the things that we know.
It's not the thing,what did Mark Twain say?
It's not the things that don't,It's not the things that we don't
know that gets us in trouble.
It's the things we knowfor sure that we know.
Tesse (17:10):
Wow.
David (17:11):
That's where we get stuck.
Tesse (17:11):
I love it.
I really do.
And the question that is cominginto my mind is what you, the David
sitting, looking at Paula and I,you know, seeing you, what would
you say to the younger David, youknow, knowing what you know now.
David (17:29):
Lighten up.
Stop taking everything to them.
Seriously.
I mean, seriously.
And by the way, the youngerDavid could be 30 or 15 or 10.
Doesn't matter.
Maybe 40.
We, I took everything so seriously.
I continually get better at that.
It's, nothing is lifeand death except dying.
(17:51):
Nothing.
Yet we make up so much that islife and death, that is severe,
that is the end of the world.
No, it's not.
I mean, the planet's going tosurvive us anyway, so none of us are
going to see the end of the world.
We just make up that it'sthe end of our world.
And it's not.
Every one of us, here in the roomand watching, has experienced things
(18:13):
that we never thought we'd get over.
We've taken on things that we thoughtwere impossible and achieved them.
We've had things forced uponus that we never wanted to do
and never thought we could.
And guess what?
We did.
It happens all the time.
We make stuff up.
What if we made up the opposite?
It's delusional to thinkyou can't do things.
(18:35):
It's as delusional asit is to think you can.
Well, why not pick the one that serves?
If I believe everything I look atis impossible or insurmountable,
or if it fails, it's the endof the world, guess what?
It is.
But if I look at it is, oh, okay, Ibombed that one, I learned one way
not to do it, what if I try that?
If you believe that you can, you havea much better chance of being able to.
(18:57):
If you believe youcan't, oh, you're right.
Tesse (18:59):
Yeah, heh heh.
David (19:00):
I had a client, It was just such a simple thing.
A client was about to have to moveand they said, this move is going
to be hard and it's going to suck.
I said, yes, it will be becauseyou just decided it will be.
What if you started off with, whatwill this look like when it's easy?
What a different mindset, whata different way to look at it.
What will this look like when it's easy?
Tesse (19:19):
I love that question.
David (19:20):
I wish I'd done that when I was a lot younger.
Tesse (19:22):
I love that question.
What would it look like if it's easy?
Paula, what do you think of that question?
Paula (19:28):
I think that's like a key message.
What would it look like if it's easy?
I mean, we hear it in different ways.
Tesse (19:35):
Or when?
When it's easy?
Yeah.
Paula (19:37):
Yeah.
What would it look like?
David (19:38):
It is because, you know, I heard Tim Ferriss say, what if it were easy?
And what I don't likeabout that is the if.
It gets you out of envisioning a reality.
What will this look like when it's easy?
Is it puts your brain into imagining.
And everything that you seearound you that you experienced
in the world was created twice,once in here and once out there.
(20:02):
If you give yourself the prompt toimagine, to envision, to picture, to
feel into what will this look likewhen it's easy, it changes, it makes
things possible or possible, right?
Invite possibility by envisioning.
Tesse (20:21):
I love it.
David (20:21):
But that's the reason PTSD is so nightmarish and difficult to work with.
Because your brain doesn't differentiatebetween imagining it in the future,
experiencing it and reliving it in thepast, so your brain doesn't differentiate.
They did some cool research withprofessional pianists and, you know, put
(20:44):
a little functional MRI in their headand have them play a piano and you see
what part of the brain lights up andthen take away the piano, put a piece
of paper with a keyboard printed on itin front of them, and then have them
play the keyboard, the printed keyboard.
The exact same portionsof the brain light up.
They're not hearing anythingexcept the ticking of their finger.
(21:06):
So what's fascinating is ourbrain doesn't differentiate.
And yes, they've done it withoutanything in front of them, except
playing the piano in the air.
Same thing, brain lights up.
Your brain doesn't distinguish.
So what will this look like whenit's easy invites you into creation?
Paula (21:22):
That's so great because my last question to you was going to
be what is your key message for ourlisteners, but you have said it.
I think we're going to end on that.
What would it look like when it is easy?
I think that's something that we all needto think about because we wake up every
day and we have the whole day ahead ofus and we can say, oh gosh, it's going
(21:44):
to be the worst or, just what you said.
David thank you for that.
I love it.
I love it.
Wow.
And again, to our listeners, wewant to say, you see, your precious
stories and your lives matter.
We ask them to share it with usand others, just like David did.
(22:05):
Because we believe in supporting,encouraging, and nurturing
others, especially when theyknow that they're not alone.
And so, again, I say to my listeners,please head over to "Apple Podcasts",
"Spotify" and now that Google Podcasts ismoving over to YouTube Music, please head
(22:25):
over there, and please click subscribe.
And if you find "TesseLeads" helpful,please let us know in your reviews.
If you have any questions or topics you'dlike us to cover, you can send us a note.
And if you'd like to be a guest onour show, "TesseLeads", head over to
the website, which is "www.tesseleads.
(22:48):
com" and apply.
Again, I'm going to say thatkey message is the bomb.
Thank you, David.
Tesse (22:54):
Thank you.
David, you have illuminatedour world again.
Thank you so much.
David (23:03):
Thanks for having me.
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