February 17, 2025 • 38 mins
Dielle Charon, MSW, is a certified life coach and 7-figure sales expert for WOC coaches. Dielle shares her journey from social work to empowering women of color through her sales programs, Five Figure Freedom and Six Figure Liberation.
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Dielle discusses sales strategies that can transform your business and the importance of personal development in pushing past your limits.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Art of Online Business podcast,
and if you're already watchingus on YouTube, yay,
congratulations.
And if you're not, please clickdown in the show notes below
for that link.
But you should be able to seenext to me, jamie Hi, who is no
longer the new co-host she'sbeen a co-host for a while here
but Facebook ad manager in mybusiness behind the scenes, and
then you can also see DL CharanHi.
(00:27):
I'm so excited to be here.
Welcome, dl.
Thank you for being here.
I thought I would read your bioand then we would jump into
this first episode.
I secretly am very happy thatyou are going to be sharing with
us on sales because, well,sales is something that we all
need to get good at, and I lovepicking the brain of sales
specialist.
How do you what?
How do you refer to yourself?
Actually, I'm curious a salescoach?
(00:48):
very simple yeah, okay, not asales specialist, not a guru no,
no, guru sorry guru is a swearword dl msw, which I actually.
Can you explain what that means?
Masters in social work.
So you went from having amaster's in social work to being
a certified life coach andseven figure sales expert for
(01:09):
women of color coachesCongratulations.
By the way, I saw your post onInstagram and you have three
years in running of grossingover a million dollars in
revenue in your business.
That is huge.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Thank you, yeah, you're welcome.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I think equally noteworthy is the fact that you
have served over 300 women inyour programs the Five Figure
Freedom sales program and theSix Figure Liberation sales
program.
You're the host of the Women ofColor sales show podcast with
over 150,000 downloads, and thatalso is noteworthy.
Thank you for spending sometime with us.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I'm super excited to be here.
I love talking about all thingssales, business, online
business.
I'm pumped Cool.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Well, let's start off with a snapshot of your
business as it stands.
I would like to know a littlebit about your offers.
You said before we hit recordyou're comfortable with sharing
revenue, so please share thatfor the listener before we jump
back in time and see how youpulled all of this off.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Sure.
So over this past year, 2024,we did 1.3 million cash
collected about 1.7.
Yeah, yes.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Golf clap.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
About 1.7 receivable sales and so some money coming
into 2025.
And we did that primarily withthree main offers.
So five figure freedom, wherewe charge $5,000 for that offer
at the beginning of the year andthen in June it went down to
2,500.
We lowered the price and happyto share more about our reasons
(02:35):
for that.
And then I also have a anothermastermind called six figure
liberation.
That's $15,000.
So a big jump.
So, $2,500 program and then a$15,000 mastermind, and so those
are our main two offers.
I did five launches that yearand so lots of live launching,
and I also did some evergreenbackdoor selling as well.
(02:58):
That was really fun.
I have a few like courses orone-off things.
I experimented a little bitwith Black Friday.
I also have some intensives forpeople that are like I don't
want group, I want one-on-onefrom you, and so I have those.
Those are maybe total about$50,000 of my revenue.
So nothing significant, noteven 10%, but I do just want to
(03:19):
name.
I do have that a little bit ofan income stream.
But my main offers arefive-figure freedom, six-figure
liberation that I just described, and then the emancipation
experience, which is my liveevent, my sales and wealth
conference for women of colorcoaches, and so we have that
every April, and so that is ourbig conference.
We're currently gearing up foremancipation season right now,
(03:40):
and so I'm super excited.
But those are my offers and howI've done it in right now, and
so I'm super excited.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
But those are my offers and how I've done it.
Wow, can you share a little bitabout, well, which offer makes
up the most significant revenue?
I might've missed that.
Is it the five-figure freedomone or the six-figure liberation
?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Six-figure liberation , but by a hair, so maybe that
makes up about 55% of my income.
And then the second one wouldbe five-figure freedom.
The third one would beemancipation, and then the
fourth would be thosemiscellaneous offers.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I would love it if you could describe your typical
client that's in each of thoseprograms the two five-figure
freedom and six-figureliberation.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Sure.
So five-figure freedom, mynumber one webinar that I have
for that offer and it reallyjust encapsulates the energy and
the type of clients called quityour racist job.
So the person who is a woman ofcolor, that yeah yeah.
Yeah, so it's.
It's funny I get that feedbacklike so bold and strong.
It's literally just like mycore belief, because that was
(04:38):
that was my story.
I had a racist nine to five jobthat there was no way I could
build wealth in and have freedomin, and so that's what I
created five figure freedom foris that person who is inside of
their nine to five job.
They're super smart, they haveall these goals of being a first
generation wealth builder.
Black women, latino women havea very diverse community and
(04:59):
they can't do it in nine to fivejobs, so they want to start a
coaching business, which, in myopinion, is the easiest business
to start, and so that offerwill help people from zero to
quitting their job, becomefull-time coaches.
We've had, oh, hundreds andhundreds of examples and on our
sales page, so many people havebeen able to do that.
It's a party in there.
It's so fun and it's so healingto so many people.
(05:21):
Just, you know, just seeingthem make their first money
outside of a paycheck is justone.
I think it's my life's work.
It's so healing.
So that's the ideal clientinside of five figure freedom.
I would say, more tactically,they maybe have dabbled into
coaching before.
They might have a niche.
So they might be like okay, Iwant to be a money coach, or
okay, I want to be a health andwellness coach, or okay, I want
(05:43):
to be a mom coach.
I want moms to have lessoverwhelm.
They typically have a niche,but they're struggling on the
sales front.
They're struggling with content, with sales calls.
I love sales calls, that's oneof my bread and butters.
I love teaching sales calls andhelping people master a strong,
ethical sales call, and so thoseskills will get them to that
full-time income.
(06:04):
So that's five-figure freedom.
And then for six-figureliberation we have an income
requirement for that offer whichis $50,000.
And we chose $50,000 to kind ofconnote that at least you know
how to feed yourself, you knowhow to keep a roof over your
head.
So it's not the program forbeginners and so we have that
$50,000 requirement there.
But for those coaches they wantto have a six figure launch.
(06:27):
So we teach launching andscaling in that offer.
And so my message quote unquotefor that offer is like staying
small as racist.
A lot of women of color.
They will quit their job andthen they'll stop, they'll
plateau, they won't grow anymore.
For several reasons.
It could be oh, I don't want toget haters, or oh, I don't
think I can manage a large group, and so what we say all the
(06:48):
time is staying small is racist.
You don't have to just keep.
You know the little bit offull-time income you have.
You can create a million dollarbusiness.
And so I've been able to helpseveral people hit seven figures
as well, which is superexciting too.
And so yeah, that's kind of thedifference between the two
offers and who they're best for.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
That is something that I hear when I interview
guests on this show.
We talk about six figures, wetalk about seven figures and,
like it's just so intriguing tome especially in the context of
our conversation where you serveprimarily women of color where
we're talking about six figuresand seven figures as if it's
(07:29):
normal to like, teach people tomake that much and have people
make that much when, like, ifyou're a seven figure earner,
gross, you know, doesn't thatput you in the top?
What is it?
Point zero something percent ofearners in the States.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yes, but that number is growing, especially with
entrepreneurship and all thesemechanisms, and even if you're
not a coach or a serviceprovider, creators are bringing
in that much like influencersare bringing in that much, so I
think the entirety of thecreator gig economy is exploding
that number and making it a lotmore reasonable yeah, well I
just want to give honor to wherehonor's due, to whom it's due
(08:09):
to and, like I love the workthat you're doing.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
if you're working with, unfortunately, like a
demon or I should say, ademographic who is unfortunately
, like usually making super lowincome, like I, whenever I
wanted to press myself, look atlike wealth gap or wealth
disparity or income disparity,and it usually is, like you know
, typical headliners.
Like you know, white wealth is14 times as large or larger than
(08:34):
like black wealth in the States, but then among the black
community and among anycommunity, honestly, like women,
especially women of color, justmake a lot less.
And so for you to take somebodyor a group of people and do
what you're doing and dispersingthe kind of knowledge you are
like, thank you.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
No, it's my life's work.
I just feel so grateful for itand I'm just honestly grateful
for the coaching industry.
Like I know a lot of people.
They have lots of thoughtsabout the coaching industry and
I'm like if it wasn't for thecoaching industry, I would still
be a social worker at Dukeuniversity, making $2,500 a
month, chain to my desk, with athree hour commute that I took
by bus and so I am.
(09:14):
Yeah, I'm like I'll take all theups and downs of the coaching
industry any day than being asocial worker at Duke university
and so yeah, I'm just sograteful that I feel, kind of
how I talk about it with myclients is not everybody even
knows this industry exists.
I just feel to even know aboutit, to be a part of it.
A friend randomly sent me apodcast episode, you know.
(09:37):
You know, as I was home for theholidays she said hey, I am
listening to these podcasts.
I think you would like itchanged my life.
So I'm just, I just feel sograteful to be at the right time
at the right place in thisindustry.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
That's great.
Have you been any chance read?
We should all be millionaires.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Yes, such a trailblazer, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yeah, I just finished reading that actually just
within the past month or so andvery eye-opening, very inspiring
.
I'm obviously a white woman,but just all of married to a
black man all of the immigrantsabout this situation no, but it
was immigrants.
I can honestly say like she'sprobably more black than I am
(10:23):
maybe let's just be honest, buteither either way I mean, you
know, being a woman of color ornot but the book was just very
just inspiring.
Like to dream bigger, to gohigher.
And you're doing that.
You're pressing in and you'retaking people up with you.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
So have you read this one?
I'm halfway through.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
No, I haven't.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Well, I like it here, we can just, you can screenshot
it if you want.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Oh, okay, steven Chandler, okay.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Say the title, so people who are listening oh, the
title for people who arelistening and not yet watching
on YouTube is Stop Waiting forPermission.
By Stephen Chandler.
The little quote here says ifyou're tired of hitting
roadblocks and want to dig deepto achieve your God-given
potential, today is the day.
Harness your gifts, find yourpurpose and unleash your
(11:10):
personal genius.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Wow, good stuff.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Good stuff, nice one to cover.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Okay, so take us back DL.
How did you?
You said you listened to apodcast that changed your life
and then, like something clicked, or what did you decide I'm
going to do from here to makethat shift and was this on?
Speaker 1 (11:29):
the bus.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah, well, it might as well have been yes.
So I became a social worker.
I love social work.
To this day I have severalclients who are therapists,
social workers, inside of thatfield, and they always use the
word former.
I'm like, I'm not former, I paymy dues just like you do.
But yeah, and I use so much ofmy social work background and my
work.
But became a social worker andI got my master's degree right
(11:55):
after I went to UNC Chapel Hill,got a big old, fancy master's
degree and I thought I wouldnever have to worry about money
again because I got my educationand that's what I was told to
do and if I just get aneducation, I'll always be safe.
And that was not the case and Iwill never forget.
I was outside of my class and Igot a job offer which I was so
(12:16):
happy about, just thrilled about.
I got a job offer from the DukeUniversity and it was for
$39,000.
And my heart dropped to mystomach because I also had six
figures of student loan debt.
So I yeah, I at least thoughtit would be in the fifties or
something, and so I was soafraid of not having anything, I
just took it.
(12:37):
And then I realized, with taxesand everything, my paycheck
would be $2,500 a month.
And so I decided to then startlooking for side hustles.
I had no other choice but tokind of supplement my income and
I tried a few out.
I had an Etsy shop, I had ananny agency.
I also did network marketing.
(12:57):
Yes, I tried a few things out,and with network marketing it's
very community oriented.
And so that's how I got intopodcasts.
And I was in one company and afriend was in another company
but she was listening to thisnetwork marketing podcast and
she it was about how a networkmarketer became a coach.
And I was like, oh, what's acoach?
What's this?
What's a life coach?
I had no idea.
And then, ever since thatpodcast episode, it changed my
(13:19):
life, I would say I just likeobserved the coaching industry
for a year, like I was tooafraid to post or buy anything
or sign up for anything, justfor a year to be like, is this
real?
Like, can all of these peoplebe making all of this money on
the internet?
Like, is this real?
And then, eventually I got myfirst coach and I became a life
(13:40):
coach.
I was my first niche and it wascalled the busy girls club.
My clients sometimes will findit and they'll send it to me
like was this you and so?
yeah it was called busy girlsclub and I was like I help
ambitious women, you know,manage their schedules and get
things done.
And I did that for a while andthen I started making good money
.
I started being able to matchmy salary off of that and bring
(14:02):
in, which wasn't high to beginwith, let's be clear, but I
would bring in, you know, $2,000a month and I was able to kind
of tackle some of the debt.
And my friends and family saidhow are you doing this?
Like you're kind of like anatural with sales online, like
how are you doing this?
And so I said, oh, I'll helpyou.
And then eventually enoughpeople asked and I said maybe I
(14:22):
should change my niche.
And so I pivoted into businesscoaching and then, specifically,
I found that I love sales calls, I love webinars, I kill.
I make with my audience size.
At the time I was like making$300,000 with the audience size
of 1500 Instagram followers andmaybe 300 email subscribers like
itty bitty, small, small, and Iwas killing it.
(14:45):
I was just killing it, so Isaid I think, I think I might be
good at sales.
I don't know though.
I think I might have a knack forthis.
So then I pivot specificallyfrom, just like general business
coaching, I pivoted into sales,and now this is.
This is all I do.
I mainly focus on sales callsand sales calls.
And the third one was Webinarsand launching.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Launching, then they got to check you out for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
But I specifically to focus on part-time hours
because I had that long commuteand the story behind that is I
live in North Carolina, kind oflive in the sticks here, and the
transportation system obviouslyis not very robust.
But my job was about 45 minutesaway from where I lived.
It was too expensive to movecloser and I had a car from
(15:41):
college and I didn't want to putwear and tear on it, didn't
want to pay for gas anduniversities charge their
employees to park their carsthere and that was a if they
charge their employees like.
We had a choice and this waslike pre-covid and, like you
know, you couldn't work fromhome like you had to go in the
office every single day.
I thought that was asinine, soit was 200 a month no art for
(16:04):
parking for parking yes, it wasinsane.
It was crazy, and so I was.
I remember talking to my thenfiance, now husband, and I was
like honey, I think I'm going totake the bus.
And so we mapped out like how Itake the bus and of course it
took me like two hours to liketransfer over, but I took the
bus to work.
(16:25):
So I have to leave my house at6am and I want to get home till
seven every single day, and Ialso built a business while
working on that that schedule,and so I got my business to
$300,000 before I quit workingvery little hours, and so that's
also what I specialize in aswell.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
What are people's impressions when you lead with
that?
So?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
what's your excuse?
No, literally, yeah, literally.
But I, you know, when I wasgoing through it I would be like
God, why, why me?
This is so terrible.
But now hindsight, I'm like Ihave the perfect story.
Nobody can tell me nothing,nobody.
I'm a social worker.
I never took a business class aday in my life.
(17:09):
In my life Like if and I knoweveryone says like, if I could
do it, you could do it too butreally, if I can do it, you can
do it too, I promise you.
So, yeah, I like my story.
People like, oh, I don't haveall of that.
I can, then I can start abusiness.
And that's what I want.
I want people to be inspiredand empowered and realize that
their circumstances really don'thave to get in the way.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Yes, Wow, yes, you've built a business partly on a
bus.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
I feel like we need to say something about colleges
and I was listening back in theday we were thinking about
buying a short-term rent orproperty that we're going to use
for short-term rentals, and Iwas listening to the was
listening to the bigger pocketspodcast, because if you haven't
heard this study, you can findit if you google something about
(17:58):
it and their podcast.
But there's a gentleman in somesort of foundation in dc doing
research and he decided to dothis huge project where he was
looking up the short-term andlong-term income trajectory for
college graduates of differentmajors at a ton of different
(18:19):
colleges in the States.
And so his whole point was toput a dollar sign amount of
average value or let's say,lifetime value on various majors
.
And as I was, I didn't go readthe study, I just consumed the
episode.
But what struck me was that ofcourse, the hosts of that
episode were like okay, so likewhat are the highest earning
majors?
And you know he like listed offsome, a few like engineer,
(18:42):
engineering type degrees andthis sort of thing.
But what I found, and it stillis in my mind, is that the
lowest earning majors tend to bein the humanities and like
psychology or what's that otherone shoot sociology right and
the host asks this question likeif universities have access to
(19:06):
this data, you know, like maybein I don't know how they would
collect it adjacently, maybebecause they know about their
alumni or they know what kind ofalumni are contributing how
much to the various alumniassociations, then why is it
that universities are stillpromoting and pushing so many
people into psych degrees andsociology degrees?
(19:26):
Do?
you have an opinion on thatBecause you experienced it too.
I was a linguistics major.
Just so you know I'm notpreaching like from the
engineering mountaintop here.
I was a linguistics major.
Just so you know I'm notpreaching from the engineering
mountaintop here.
I was a linguistics major.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
What languages do you know?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Languages do I know?
Okay, I guess I chose it for alifestyle, not for income.
So I know Mandarin ChineseBecause we lived there for like
11 years.
Maybe I racked up 14 yearsthere.
I'm upper intermediate inspanish right now.
Would you say so yeah, allright, cool, depends, depends
(20:00):
which uber driver I'm talking to.
They may or may not.
And then I used to speak reallygood french because I used to
work and yeah, I was gonna saytwo parley francais what?
but not now, because, yeah,chinese kicked french out of my
brain.
Actually, I just have been lazyand not maintained it.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Oh lovely, yeah, I dabble in French.
I loved it and I was actuallyin the new year thinking about
picking up French again.
But yeah no, I think it's abeautiful language, beautiful
culture too.
But I have several thoughts.
I used to work in higher ed,like I worked at the university.
I used to work in higher ed,and so I was on the student
(20:40):
affairs side of all of it too,and I think my initial gut
response to that study is likewell, why do the universities
push it?
It's because we unfortunatelyneed them.
We need social workers, we needteachers, we, we, somebody has
to do those jobs.
And I think too, you describeI'm going to like a little a
little technical here, but Ithink it's interesting you
(21:01):
describe like psychology andsociology, which require people,
say masters, I say doctorates,like they require doctorates for
you to, I think, make asustainable living, versus
what's cool about social work isit's actually what's called a
pre-professional degree, meaningwith just my BSW I could go out
and I don't technically needthose other designations.
(21:23):
And also, what's unique aboutsocial work and why I studied it
, is you then only have to doone year of a master's program
and then you have the equivalentof a psych PhD.
They call that a terminaldegree.
And so I, cumulatively, I onlyhad five years of school,
including my bachelor's and mymaster's and, like my husband,
(21:44):
he has his psych degree.
He's eventually going to needhis PhD, which is like eight to
12 years.
And so I would say I wasactually smarter.
Right, in the grand scheme ofthe humanities I was actually
smarter.
And two they say in thosefields, going back to like the
doctorate, they say in thosefields, just get into private
practice.
Private practice and you canmake six figures from private
(22:05):
practice.
It's just very taxing work,like you would have to be back
to back eight, 10 sessions a daywith clients.
You would have to find thoseclients, keep and retain those
clients.
Get up on your certifications,your CEUs.
It's very difficult to have asuccessful private practice.
But I actually wanted to go getmy PhD and I wanted to be a
(22:25):
professor.
That was the track that I wason.
So but I realized that it willprobably take me well into my
mid-30s to see the type of moneythat I wanted.
But for me too, as a woman, Ialso I don't know when I'm going
to have children.
We're not thinking about thatanytime soon but I definitely
wanted the option to stay homeif I ever wanted a family.
(22:46):
So that was also some of mymotivations as well, Right,
Sounds like you have that option, and then some.
Yeah, more than that.
Yeah, yeah, right, sounds likeyou have that option, and then
some right more than that.
Yeah, yeah, totally all aboutoptions.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Well, I don't want to just ask all the random
questions in my mind like Igotta let you ask something no,
go ahead go ahead.
You started a nanny agency.
Yeah, as you were commuting tobecome a social worker, or you
were.
You were a social worker,commuting an hour and a half
each way, and the first sidehustle, or one of the first side
(23:21):
hustles that you started was ananny agency.
I just want to know where didyou get these ideas from, and
have you always had like aleaning towards entrepreneurship
?
Because that doesn't sound likethe first or easiest kind of
side hustle I would ever havethought of.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yeah, I had it in college.
I had it in college.
It was kind of all.
I knew my mom is a teacher,she's a Montessori teacher, and
so, kids, I was going to majorin education and then I was like
, oh, I don't want to be in theschool system and I wanted a
more flexible career, so I chosesocial work.
But, yes, I was very familiarand kids were easy, I didn't
have to think with kids, itwasn't anything super
(23:56):
challenging, and so I had thatas my my background on what I
did.
So I nannied all throughoutcollege, all throughout my
master's, and so that was likethe lowest hanging fruit, to be
like, oh, dl, call up somefamilies and and go work.
So I would do overnight.
That's what I would do.
And so, if you know, the familyhad to work, or it was
typically like one spouse had towork and like the mom, like
typically the husband had to goon a work trip.
(24:18):
The mom wanted a set of hands,and so I could literally be paid
to sleep right, and then justmake sure that the lunches were
good and that the house was tidy, and then I would leave at 6am
and go on the bus, and so Iwould do overnights.
I would also do the weekends aswell.
So that was kind of what I did.
And yeah, looking back, a lot ofpeople ask me that, like, was
(24:38):
there any writing on the wallthat I was entrepreneurial?
Entrepreneurship?
The idea of it scared me.
I was just like that's so risky, that's so scary you know, I'm
not going to be able to controlmy income all the objections I
now have to overcome in my ownbusiness.
I had those same thoughts andso I will never forget in school
there was an entrepreneurshiplike contest, like a pitch
(25:00):
contest, and they had all theirprojects in like the lobby of
the main campus building and Iremember being after school I
mean like after class walkingaround and being like
interesting.
I could never see myself doingsomething like this.
Look at me now.
Look at me now.
Yeah, I don't think it ever.
It never bit me.
(25:20):
But I will say I was alwayscreative.
I have a dance background.
I danced my whole life.
I have that like art.
I can create something out ofnothing.
I was always a leader too.
I was always running stuff.
Like a nerdy fact about me.
I was a Girl Scout all the wayup through graduation and I got
my gold award, which is likeequivalent to the Eagle Scout
(25:41):
award, and so like I was always,yeah, I was always running
stuff, putting out some project.
I won so many awards in collegebecause I was always creating
clubs, so I I was always likeproducing something.
I just didn't know he paid forit.
That never occurred to me, butyeah.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Those were all the stepping stones to get you to
where you are now.
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
This is also another random question sitting in my
mind as somebody who has triedto help family members how
successful were you in helpingfamily members with the skillset
that you currently have sales,because you mentioned somewhere,
was it around when you werefirst matching your income as a
social worker?
But your family was asking you,how are you doing this?
(26:26):
And you mentioned helping them.
Yeah, teaching them.
How did that actually go?
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yeah, it was super casual and it was specifically
my mom.
My mom's a great, she's ateacher by trade but she's a
great interior designer and soshe would ask me she was like
how can I get some clients?
She actually got a few interiordesign clients.
She has like a little portfolionow and so I helped her.
Also, my cousin has like a cardetailing business and so he was
like how do I set up like mysocial media, how do I get
(26:54):
clients outside of referrals?
So I helped him do that and hestarted getting some business.
I had a friend she was a greatvideographer so I helped her
start to get some weddingsbooked.
So, yeah, nothing, nothingcrazy, but it like for.
For me it was very common sense, but for them they'll be like
whoa, like they, their mindswould be blown and it was fun,
(27:15):
it was help, it was fun.
It would just, you know, wewould meet up for coffee or like
a quick phone call and givethem a few pointers.
Have you struggled with that,helping family members.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Let's just say I have put plenty of time and money
into helping family members andI haven't been very good at it,
so apparently I need to learnhow to help the right way.
Yeah, really unfortunate that Icouldn't help better.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
I think.
The difference, though, is thatit sounds like your family
members were coming to you foradvice.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Just saying, just saying that we're going to have
to take a little intermission.
Maybe unsolicited the co-hosthas gone off the rails.
The co-host has gone off therails.
No, no, it's true.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
True, it's just like different sure, yeah, if people
want to be helped, then theywill seek out the help right,
and if they don't, then hey so,as you're listening to me and DL
and Jamie talk right now, youprobably already know that I was
in China.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
This sounds like I'm going into like a pitch, you
know, to sell my program.
I'm not, though.
I have that tone, you know.
But you know I was in China forlike 12 years.
I did help my family then.
Like I had my mom and my sisterboth moved to China and back
then, like Jamie and I wererunning a tutoring business,
(28:40):
like we had it super structured.
It was not just one-on-one, itwas like one-on-three,
one-on-one, it was like one onthree, one on four and we were
making lots of money and we didoh, we franchised that out for
like 25 commission too to likewell other people.
But then I helped my mom and mysister both do the same thing,
so I have helped family you have.
They both went there like andmade a good amount of money and
(29:02):
I guess, like my sister now shelives in portugal she probably
wouldn't have gone over there ifit wasn't for saving up all
that cash in china and thenexiting there.
So wow random story that'samazing those were the good old
days.
The good old days.
Please tell us, before wefinish the episode, what was one
(29:25):
time, as you were building yourbusiness, where you almost like
quit and like gave it all up togo find, I don't know, social
work again or a different jobthat's along that trajectory
it's actually a concept I teachmy clients now, so I you know it
was.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
I think I might've had like three zero K months in
a row, so like my third month,like not bringing it in my
business and my business wasvery inconsistent and I say like
that's probably the hardestseason in business.
People say the hardest seasonin business is when you're at
zero.
I actually think when it's in,you're in between your goal
because you're like, okay, Ishouldn't quit because I have
(30:04):
been successful in the past butI'm currently not successful
right now.
I think that's the hardest partin business where you have to
pass but the future is looking alittle bleak.
And so it was then where I waslike, okay, I've made money
before, but this is my thirdzero K month.
Should I call it quits?
And there's this like giantafter being dropped off at the
(30:31):
bus, I had to walk up like thisgiant hill, and I would I had
like, oh yeah, it just it justgets worse, right, like in the
snow, rain, sleet, yeah yeah,but it never snows.
In North Carolina snows everythree years, but yeah, and I
would have like these, theseflats with like holes in them,
because I didn't want to spendmoney on shoes, or rather like
buy coaching programs.
And so I remember, like walkingup in the snow, sleet or the
imaginary snow and sleet andwhat felt like snow and sleet
and being like I should justquit.
(30:53):
And then a thought came to myhead and said DL, give it a year
.
How about you actually give itfive?
You can quit after five years.
And then, like after you reallygive it your all, because if
you're trying something everyday for five years, like, then
sure you can hang up the towel.
And then two months later covidhappened sent all of us home to
(31:14):
work from home.
I got a lot of time back.
Yeah, I hit my first 20k monthand then it just kept growing
and growing from there.
And so, like when they say youtypically quit premature, like
right before you're a big breed,I love that feeling now,
whenever I'm like I can't takeany more, like it's going to,
(31:35):
like it's, I'm going to takemyself out.
I love that feeling.
Now I have the awareness to belike oh, dl, you're right there,
you're right there, give it onemore go.
I felt that way with with ads.
All 2023 was like ads are dumb.
I don't like ads.
They're too complicated.
What are we doing all of thisfor?
Terrible, terrible.
(31:56):
And then this year I was likeOkay, what if I do something
differently?
So I'm doing a.
I'm not gonna have the rightterminology you all would have
the better terminology, but I'vebeen calling them Russell
Brunson webinars, where it'sbasically just a live webinar.
So, instead of sending thetraffic to evergreen funnel,
it's a live webinar for me and Ido it every two weeks.
That changed my business.
I was like this is actuallywhat I want to do and I'm so
(32:18):
glad I didn't quit on ads.
I'm so, so glad.
So I like that feeling now.
Yeah, I'm super happy with ourresults.
But now I know, whenever I feelthat way, give it a few more
months and the big break iscoming.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
That's so good.
I'm curious Can I ask how longinto like how long have you been
making money before that threemonths of zeros hit?
Speaker 2 (32:45):
I would.
Maybe it was so inconsistent,like it was right at the
beginning of my business.
So I would get like a $500client there, a $2,500 painful
client there, and then I wouldgo months into getting no sales.
And then I would go and I wouldget another $2,500 client and
then like a few $500 clients andthen it would go into another.
So like it was that just liketrying to push, push the boulder
(33:06):
up the hill to get somethinggoing.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
I feel like if you haven't already that quote about
, like whatever you said about,you didn't want to buy flats.
Instead, you like spent yourmoney on coaching courses.
I feel like that is veryInstagrammable.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Oh sure, yeah, I didn't buy any money on clothes
Cause I was like I hate this jobanyways, I don't have to
impress them.
I was like I was not trying tolook cute for nobody in that
office, I was like they justneed to.
I need to close on my body andI had them on and.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
I wanted to, especially with $2,500, I had to
squeeze out every dime and Iwas like I'd rather you know, I
could spend a hundred dollars ona new pair of shoes, or I could
spend $100 on a course thatcould get me out of here.
Right, right yeah.
They always say choose yourhard, right yeah.
Like either way it's going tobe hard, but pick which one you
want Right.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yeah, very, very true .
What's one thing that you wouldleave, the last thing you would
leave for this episode with thelistener, just in case it takes
them a moment to click in thedescription below and listen to
the next episode, where we'regoing to unpack sales and how to
grow revenue with a bettersales process.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
I will say I'll give one strategy, one mindset.
I would say a lot can changewhen you know how to do a sales
call.
A lot can change.
That was that part where I wasdoing the 20K month.
That's when I finally clickedinto oh, I have to do the sales
call this way, I have to do itthat way.
Oh, I need to say this Learningsales conversations changed my
life.
So that would be number one.
(34:33):
And then number two, time isn'tthe problem.
So if you're like, oh, I don'thave enough time and that's the
reason why I'm not doinganything, it could be, you know,
learning French, it could beanything you want to.
You know, give your time totime isn't the problem.
You are, you're the problem ohouch, that'll hurt.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
That's like the stab, but you know why are you gonna
talk to her like that?
Speaker 2 (35:05):
well it's.
I mean, yeah, with my story Iwas like oh, it wasn't, because
I'm just like.
Everybody was like how am Isupposed to do this?
It wasn't time, it was me.
And then, once I got me figureit out, time didn't matter.
If you can figure out theinternal issue within you, time
will never become a factor.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Wow that's true.
I was just listening to jim ronfrom well, obviously from back
in the day, and he was talkingabout getting rid of, like your
weak, older self that's likebound by fear and believes that
by putting something off until,like you know, whenever it'd be
easier to do, then because ofall these excuses, and he's like
, no, and I'm not doing itjustice.
(35:47):
But I was listening to it andwhen you said the problem is you
, that came to mind.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, we all knowentrepreneurship is nothing but
identity work over and over andover again.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Identity.
Identity my definition of thatis the thoughts you think about
yourself, regardless of thecircumstance.
So, like when I was a socialworker, I had to cosplay as like
a successful coach in my mindin order to do the actions of a
successful coach.
Before I was a successful coach, because that was the identity
that I was trying to cultivate,even though that wasn't my
(36:22):
circumstance.
Those were the thoughts that Iwanted to think about myself.
Right that I'm a successfulcoach, even though that's not my
current reality.
And so, yeah, it's identitywork.
It's thinking about what areyour thoughts about yourself,
regardless of the things aroundyou.
And so I did that work all theway up to a million, and now
it's a little bit morechallenging.
(36:42):
But now I'm trying to thinklike DL, you can make $5 million
.
What would be the $5 millionversion of you?
Not just the million dollar,but the $5 million version of
you, even though that's not inmy bank account right now.
So what are the thoughts youthink about yourself, regardless
of the circumstance?
Speaker 3 (36:58):
That's so good.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
We just have to stop here.
We need to wrap this up, butyeah very good.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
I think lots of us need to hear this right and just
kind of say, okay, we need tostep it up a little and make
some changes thank you forsharing and spending this time
with us absolutely, it was mypleasure.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
thank you for having me very this time with us.
Absolutely, it was my pleasure.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Very welcome, the honor is ours.
Dear listener, if what she justsaid resonated with you, I
normally just have a link to thenext episode.
You'll want to come and hear ustalk about sales for sure,
because learning how to do salescalls right and just have sales
conversations even if they'reon webinars like that will
(37:48):
change your business.
I'm also going to include alink to uh, mindy hubner's
episode.
It came out at the end of 2024and the second one came out at
the beginning of 2025, but a lotof the things that I heard from
DL were resonating me, havingto do with identity, and Mindy
spoke a lot Like I would saythat was the episode that
(38:09):
impacted us both.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Yeah, I was actually thinking of her episode too as
we were talking, so glad yousaid that.
All right, very good, go backand listen to that one.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yep, that will be a link in the show notes below, as
will the YouTube channel link,so you can see our beautiful
selves in the next episode.
Until we see you, or you see usagain, take care, be blessed
and goodbye.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
Bye.
Welcome back to the Art of Online Business podcast,
and if you're already watchingus on YouTube, yay,
congratulations.
And if you're not, please clickdown in the show notes below
for that link.
But you should be able to seenext to me, jamie Hi, who is no
longer the new co-host she'sbeen a co-host for a while here
but Facebook ad manager in mybusiness behind the scenes, and
then you can also see DL CharanHi.
(00:27):
I'm so excited to be here.
Welcome, dl.
Thank you for being here.
I thought I would read your bioand then we would jump into
this first episode.
I secretly am very happy thatyou are going to be sharing with
us on sales because, well,sales is something that we all
need to get good at, and I lovepicking the brain of sales
specialist.
How do you what?
How do you refer to yourself?
Actually, I'm curious a salescoach?
(00:48):
very simple yeah, okay, not asales specialist, not a guru no,
no, guru sorry guru is a swearword dl msw, which I actually.
Can you explain what that means?
Masters in social work.
So you went from having amaster's in social work to being
a certified life coach andseven figure sales expert for
(01:09):
women of color coachesCongratulations.
By the way, I saw your post onInstagram and you have three
years in running of grossingover a million dollars in
revenue in your business.
That is huge.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Thank you, yeah, you're welcome.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I think equally noteworthy is the fact that you
have served over 300 women inyour programs the Five Figure
Freedom sales program and theSix Figure Liberation sales
program.
You're the host of the Women ofColor sales show podcast with
over 150,000 downloads, and thatalso is noteworthy.
Thank you for spending sometime with us.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I'm super excited to be here.
I love talking about all thingssales, business, online
business.
I'm pumped Cool.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Well, let's start off with a snapshot of your
business as it stands.
I would like to know a littlebit about your offers.
You said before we hit recordyou're comfortable with sharing
revenue, so please share thatfor the listener before we jump
back in time and see how youpulled all of this off.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Sure.
So over this past year, 2024,we did 1.3 million cash
collected about 1.7.
Yeah, yes.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Golf clap.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
About 1.7 receivable sales and so some money coming
into 2025.
And we did that primarily withthree main offers.
So five figure freedom, wherewe charge $5,000 for that offer
at the beginning of the year andthen in June it went down to
2,500.
We lowered the price and happyto share more about our reasons
(02:35):
for that.
And then I also have a anothermastermind called six figure
liberation.
That's $15,000.
So a big jump.
So, $2,500 program and then a$15,000 mastermind, and so those
are our main two offers.
I did five launches that yearand so lots of live launching,
and I also did some evergreenbackdoor selling as well.
(02:58):
That was really fun.
I have a few like courses orone-off things.
I experimented a little bitwith Black Friday.
I also have some intensives forpeople that are like I don't
want group, I want one-on-onefrom you, and so I have those.
Those are maybe total about$50,000 of my revenue.
So nothing significant, noteven 10%, but I do just want to
(03:19):
name.
I do have that a little bit ofan income stream.
But my main offers arefive-figure freedom, six-figure
liberation that I just described, and then the emancipation
experience, which is my liveevent, my sales and wealth
conference for women of colorcoaches, and so we have that
every April, and so that is ourbig conference.
We're currently gearing up foremancipation season right now,
(03:40):
and so I'm super excited.
But those are my offers and howI've done it in right now, and
so I'm super excited.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
But those are my offers and how I've done it.
Wow, can you share a little bitabout, well, which offer makes
up the most significant revenue?
I might've missed that.
Is it the five-figure freedomone or the six-figure liberation
?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Six-figure liberation , but by a hair, so maybe that
makes up about 55% of my income.
And then the second one wouldbe five-figure freedom.
The third one would beemancipation, and then the
fourth would be thosemiscellaneous offers.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I would love it if you could describe your typical
client that's in each of thoseprograms the two five-figure
freedom and six-figureliberation.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Sure.
So five-figure freedom, mynumber one webinar that I have
for that offer and it reallyjust encapsulates the energy and
the type of clients called quityour racist job.
So the person who is a woman ofcolor, that yeah yeah.
Yeah, so it's.
It's funny I get that feedbacklike so bold and strong.
It's literally just like mycore belief, because that was
(04:38):
that was my story.
I had a racist nine to five jobthat there was no way I could
build wealth in and have freedomin, and so that's what I
created five figure freedom foris that person who is inside of
their nine to five job.
They're super smart, they haveall these goals of being a first
generation wealth builder.
Black women, latino women havea very diverse community and
(04:59):
they can't do it in nine to fivejobs, so they want to start a
coaching business, which, in myopinion, is the easiest business
to start, and so that offerwill help people from zero to
quitting their job, becomefull-time coaches.
We've had, oh, hundreds andhundreds of examples and on our
sales page, so many people havebeen able to do that.
It's a party in there.
It's so fun and it's so healingto so many people.
(05:21):
Just, you know, just seeingthem make their first money
outside of a paycheck is justone.
I think it's my life's work.
It's so healing.
So that's the ideal clientinside of five figure freedom.
I would say, more tactically,they maybe have dabbled into
coaching before.
They might have a niche.
So they might be like okay, Iwant to be a money coach, or
okay, I want to be a health andwellness coach, or okay, I want
(05:43):
to be a mom coach.
I want moms to have lessoverwhelm.
They typically have a niche,but they're struggling on the
sales front.
They're struggling with content, with sales calls.
I love sales calls, that's oneof my bread and butters.
I love teaching sales calls andhelping people master a strong,
ethical sales call, and so thoseskills will get them to that
full-time income.
(06:04):
So that's five-figure freedom.
And then for six-figureliberation we have an income
requirement for that offer whichis $50,000.
And we chose $50,000 to kind ofconnote that at least you know
how to feed yourself, you knowhow to keep a roof over your
head.
So it's not the program forbeginners and so we have that
$50,000 requirement there.
But for those coaches they wantto have a six figure launch.
(06:27):
So we teach launching andscaling in that offer.
And so my message quote unquotefor that offer is like staying
small as racist.
A lot of women of color.
They will quit their job andthen they'll stop, they'll
plateau, they won't grow anymore.
For several reasons.
It could be oh, I don't want toget haters, or oh, I don't
think I can manage a large group, and so what we say all the
(06:48):
time is staying small is racist.
You don't have to just keep.
You know the little bit offull-time income you have.
You can create a million dollarbusiness.
And so I've been able to helpseveral people hit seven figures
as well, which is superexciting too.
And so yeah, that's kind of thedifference between the two
offers and who they're best for.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
That is something that I hear when I interview
guests on this show.
We talk about six figures, wetalk about seven figures and,
like it's just so intriguing tome especially in the context of
our conversation where you serveprimarily women of color where
we're talking about six figuresand seven figures as if it's
(07:29):
normal to like, teach people tomake that much and have people
make that much when, like, ifyou're a seven figure earner,
gross, you know, doesn't thatput you in the top?
What is it?
Point zero something percent ofearners in the States.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yes, but that number is growing, especially with
entrepreneurship and all thesemechanisms, and even if you're
not a coach or a serviceprovider, creators are bringing
in that much like influencersare bringing in that much, so I
think the entirety of thecreator gig economy is exploding
that number and making it a lotmore reasonable yeah, well I
just want to give honor to wherehonor's due, to whom it's due
(08:09):
to and, like I love the workthat you're doing.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
if you're working with, unfortunately, like a
demon or I should say, ademographic who is unfortunately
, like usually making super lowincome, like I, whenever I
wanted to press myself, look atlike wealth gap or wealth
disparity or income disparity,and it usually is, like you know
, typical headliners.
Like you know, white wealth is14 times as large or larger than
(08:34):
like black wealth in the States, but then among the black
community and among anycommunity, honestly, like women,
especially women of color, justmake a lot less.
And so for you to take somebodyor a group of people and do
what you're doing and dispersingthe kind of knowledge you are
like, thank you.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
No, it's my life's work.
I just feel so grateful for itand I'm just honestly grateful
for the coaching industry.
Like I know a lot of people.
They have lots of thoughtsabout the coaching industry and
I'm like if it wasn't for thecoaching industry, I would still
be a social worker at Dukeuniversity, making $2,500 a
month, chain to my desk, with athree hour commute that I took
by bus and so I am.
(09:14):
Yeah, I'm like I'll take all theups and downs of the coaching
industry any day than being asocial worker at Duke university
and so yeah, I'm just sograteful that I feel, kind of
how I talk about it with myclients is not everybody even
knows this industry exists.
I just feel to even know aboutit, to be a part of it.
A friend randomly sent me apodcast episode, you know.
(09:37):
You know, as I was home for theholidays she said hey, I am
listening to these podcasts.
I think you would like itchanged my life.
So I'm just, I just feel sograteful to be at the right time
at the right place in thisindustry.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
That's great.
Have you been any chance read?
We should all be millionaires.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Yes, such a trailblazer, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yeah, I just finished reading that actually just
within the past month or so andvery eye-opening, very inspiring
.
I'm obviously a white woman,but just all of married to a
black man all of the immigrantsabout this situation no, but it
was immigrants.
I can honestly say like she'sprobably more black than I am
(10:23):
maybe let's just be honest, buteither either way I mean, you
know, being a woman of color ornot but the book was just very
just inspiring.
Like to dream bigger, to gohigher.
And you're doing that.
You're pressing in and you'retaking people up with you.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
So have you read this one?
I'm halfway through.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
No, I haven't.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Well, I like it here, we can just, you can screenshot
it if you want.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Oh, okay, steven Chandler, okay.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Say the title, so people who are listening oh, the
title for people who arelistening and not yet watching
on YouTube is Stop Waiting forPermission.
By Stephen Chandler.
The little quote here says ifyou're tired of hitting
roadblocks and want to dig deepto achieve your God-given
potential, today is the day.
Harness your gifts, find yourpurpose and unleash your
(11:10):
personal genius.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Wow, good stuff.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Good stuff, nice one to cover.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Okay, so take us back DL.
How did you?
You said you listened to apodcast that changed your life
and then, like something clicked, or what did you decide I'm
going to do from here to makethat shift and was this on?
Speaker 1 (11:29):
the bus.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah, well, it might as well have been yes.
So I became a social worker.
I love social work.
To this day I have severalclients who are therapists,
social workers, inside of thatfield, and they always use the
word former.
I'm like, I'm not former, I paymy dues just like you do.
But yeah, and I use so much ofmy social work background and my
work.
But became a social worker andI got my master's degree right
(11:55):
after I went to UNC Chapel Hill,got a big old, fancy master's
degree and I thought I wouldnever have to worry about money
again because I got my educationand that's what I was told to
do and if I just get aneducation, I'll always be safe.
And that was not the case and Iwill never forget.
I was outside of my class and Igot a job offer which I was so
(12:16):
happy about, just thrilled about.
I got a job offer from the DukeUniversity and it was for
$39,000.
And my heart dropped to mystomach because I also had six
figures of student loan debt.
So I yeah, I at least thoughtit would be in the fifties or
something, and so I was soafraid of not having anything, I
just took it.
(12:37):
And then I realized, with taxesand everything, my paycheck
would be $2,500 a month.
And so I decided to then startlooking for side hustles.
I had no other choice but tokind of supplement my income and
I tried a few out.
I had an Etsy shop, I had ananny agency.
I also did network marketing.
(12:57):
Yes, I tried a few things out,and with network marketing it's
very community oriented.
And so that's how I got intopodcasts.
And I was in one company and afriend was in another company
but she was listening to thisnetwork marketing podcast and
she it was about how a networkmarketer became a coach.
And I was like, oh, what's acoach?
What's this?
What's a life coach?
I had no idea.
And then, ever since thatpodcast episode, it changed my
(13:19):
life, I would say I just likeobserved the coaching industry
for a year, like I was tooafraid to post or buy anything
or sign up for anything, justfor a year to be like, is this
real?
Like, can all of these peoplebe making all of this money on
the internet?
Like, is this real?
And then, eventually I got myfirst coach and I became a life
(13:40):
coach.
I was my first niche and it wascalled the busy girls club.
My clients sometimes will findit and they'll send it to me
like was this you and so?
yeah it was called busy girlsclub and I was like I help
ambitious women, you know,manage their schedules and get
things done.
And I did that for a while andthen I started making good money
.
I started being able to matchmy salary off of that and bring
(14:02):
in, which wasn't high to beginwith, let's be clear, but I
would bring in, you know, $2,000a month and I was able to kind
of tackle some of the debt.
And my friends and family saidhow are you doing this?
Like you're kind of like anatural with sales online, like
how are you doing this?
And so I said, oh, I'll helpyou.
And then eventually enoughpeople asked and I said maybe I
(14:22):
should change my niche.
And so I pivoted into businesscoaching and then, specifically,
I found that I love sales calls, I love webinars, I kill.
I make with my audience size.
At the time I was like making$300,000 with the audience size
of 1500 Instagram followers andmaybe 300 email subscribers like
itty bitty, small, small, and Iwas killing it.
(14:45):
I was just killing it, so Isaid I think, I think I might be
good at sales.
I don't know though.
I think I might have a knack forthis.
So then I pivot specificallyfrom, just like general business
coaching, I pivoted into sales,and now this is.
This is all I do.
I mainly focus on sales callsand sales calls.
And the third one was Webinarsand launching.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Launching, then they got to check you out for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
But I specifically to focus on part-time hours
because I had that long commuteand the story behind that is I
live in North Carolina, kind oflive in the sticks here, and the
transportation system obviouslyis not very robust.
But my job was about 45 minutesaway from where I lived.
It was too expensive to movecloser and I had a car from
(15:41):
college and I didn't want to putwear and tear on it, didn't
want to pay for gas anduniversities charge their
employees to park their carsthere and that was a if they
charge their employees like.
We had a choice and this waslike pre-covid and, like you
know, you couldn't work fromhome like you had to go in the
office every single day.
I thought that was asinine, soit was 200 a month no art for
(16:04):
parking for parking yes, it wasinsane.
It was crazy, and so I was.
I remember talking to my thenfiance, now husband, and I was
like honey, I think I'm going totake the bus.
And so we mapped out like how Itake the bus and of course it
took me like two hours to liketransfer over, but I took the
bus to work.
(16:25):
So I have to leave my house at6am and I want to get home till
seven every single day, and Ialso built a business while
working on that that schedule,and so I got my business to
$300,000 before I quit workingvery little hours, and so that's
also what I specialize in aswell.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
What are people's impressions when you lead with
that?
So?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
what's your excuse?
No, literally, yeah, literally.
But I, you know, when I wasgoing through it I would be like
God, why, why me?
This is so terrible.
But now hindsight, I'm like Ihave the perfect story.
Nobody can tell me nothing,nobody.
I'm a social worker.
I never took a business class aday in my life.
(17:09):
In my life Like if and I knoweveryone says like, if I could
do it, you could do it too butreally, if I can do it, you can
do it too, I promise you.
So, yeah, I like my story.
People like, oh, I don't haveall of that.
I can, then I can start abusiness.
And that's what I want.
I want people to be inspiredand empowered and realize that
their circumstances really don'thave to get in the way.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Yes, Wow, yes, you've built a business partly on a
bus.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
I feel like we need to say something about colleges
and I was listening back in theday we were thinking about
buying a short-term rent orproperty that we're going to use
for short-term rentals, and Iwas listening to the was
listening to the bigger pocketspodcast, because if you haven't
heard this study, you can findit if you google something about
(17:58):
it and their podcast.
But there's a gentleman in somesort of foundation in dc doing
research and he decided to dothis huge project where he was
looking up the short-term andlong-term income trajectory for
college graduates of differentmajors at a ton of different
(18:19):
colleges in the States.
And so his whole point was toput a dollar sign amount of
average value or let's say,lifetime value on various majors
.
And as I was, I didn't go readthe study, I just consumed the
episode.
But what struck me was that ofcourse, the hosts of that
episode were like okay, so likewhat are the highest earning
majors?
And you know he like listed offsome, a few like engineer,
(18:42):
engineering type degrees andthis sort of thing.
But what I found, and it stillis in my mind, is that the
lowest earning majors tend to bein the humanities and like
psychology or what's that otherone shoot sociology right and
the host asks this question likeif universities have access to
(19:06):
this data, you know, like maybein I don't know how they would
collect it adjacently, maybebecause they know about their
alumni or they know what kind ofalumni are contributing how
much to the various alumniassociations, then why is it
that universities are stillpromoting and pushing so many
people into psych degrees andsociology degrees?
(19:26):
Do?
you have an opinion on thatBecause you experienced it too.
I was a linguistics major.
Just so you know I'm notpreaching like from the
engineering mountaintop here.
I was a linguistics major.
Just so you know I'm notpreaching from the engineering
mountaintop here.
I was a linguistics major.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
What languages do you know?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Languages do I know?
Okay, I guess I chose it for alifestyle, not for income.
So I know Mandarin ChineseBecause we lived there for like
11 years.
Maybe I racked up 14 yearsthere.
I'm upper intermediate inspanish right now.
Would you say so yeah, allright, cool, depends, depends
(20:00):
which uber driver I'm talking to.
They may or may not.
And then I used to speak reallygood french because I used to
work and yeah, I was gonna saytwo parley francais what?
but not now, because, yeah,chinese kicked french out of my
brain.
Actually, I just have been lazyand not maintained it.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Oh lovely, yeah, I dabble in French.
I loved it and I was actuallyin the new year thinking about
picking up French again.
But yeah no, I think it's abeautiful language, beautiful
culture too.
But I have several thoughts.
I used to work in higher ed,like I worked at the university.
I used to work in higher ed,and so I was on the student
(20:40):
affairs side of all of it too,and I think my initial gut
response to that study is likewell, why do the universities
push it?
It's because we unfortunatelyneed them.
We need social workers, we needteachers, we, we, somebody has
to do those jobs.
And I think too, you describeI'm going to like a little a
little technical here, but Ithink it's interesting you
(21:01):
describe like psychology andsociology, which require people,
say masters, I say doctorates,like they require doctorates for
you to, I think, make asustainable living, versus
what's cool about social work isit's actually what's called a
pre-professional degree, meaningwith just my BSW I could go out
and I don't technically needthose other designations.
(21:23):
And also, what's unique aboutsocial work and why I studied it
, is you then only have to doone year of a master's program
and then you have the equivalentof a psych PhD.
They call that a terminaldegree.
And so I, cumulatively, I onlyhad five years of school,
including my bachelor's and mymaster's and, like my husband,
(21:44):
he has his psych degree.
He's eventually going to needhis PhD, which is like eight to
12 years.
And so I would say I wasactually smarter.
Right, in the grand scheme ofthe humanities I was actually
smarter.
And two they say in thosefields, going back to like the
doctorate, they say in thosefields, just get into private
practice.
Private practice and you canmake six figures from private
(22:05):
practice.
It's just very taxing work,like you would have to be back
to back eight, 10 sessions a daywith clients.
You would have to find thoseclients, keep and retain those
clients.
Get up on your certifications,your CEUs.
It's very difficult to have asuccessful private practice.
But I actually wanted to go getmy PhD and I wanted to be a
(22:25):
professor.
That was the track that I wason.
So but I realized that it willprobably take me well into my
mid-30s to see the type of moneythat I wanted.
But for me too, as a woman, Ialso I don't know when I'm going
to have children.
We're not thinking about thatanytime soon but I definitely
wanted the option to stay homeif I ever wanted a family.
(22:46):
So that was also some of mymotivations as well, Right,
Sounds like you have that option, and then some.
Yeah, more than that.
Yeah, yeah, right, sounds likeyou have that option, and then
some right more than that.
Yeah, yeah, totally all aboutoptions.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Well, I don't want to just ask all the random
questions in my mind like Igotta let you ask something no,
go ahead go ahead.
You started a nanny agency.
Yeah, as you were commuting tobecome a social worker, or you
were.
You were a social worker,commuting an hour and a half
each way, and the first sidehustle, or one of the first side
(23:21):
hustles that you started was ananny agency.
I just want to know where didyou get these ideas from, and
have you always had like aleaning towards entrepreneurship
?
Because that doesn't sound likethe first or easiest kind of
side hustle I would ever havethought of.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yeah, I had it in college.
I had it in college.
It was kind of all.
I knew my mom is a teacher,she's a Montessori teacher, and
so, kids, I was going to majorin education and then I was like
, oh, I don't want to be in theschool system and I wanted a
more flexible career, so I chosesocial work.
But, yes, I was very familiarand kids were easy, I didn't
have to think with kids, itwasn't anything super
(23:56):
challenging, and so I had thatas my my background on what I
did.
So I nannied all throughoutcollege, all throughout my
master's, and so that was likethe lowest hanging fruit, to be
like, oh, dl, call up somefamilies and and go work.
So I would do overnight.
That's what I would do.
And so, if you know, the familyhad to work, or it was
typically like one spouse had towork and like the mom, like
typically the husband had to goon a work trip.
(24:18):
The mom wanted a set of hands,and so I could literally be paid
to sleep right, and then justmake sure that the lunches were
good and that the house was tidy, and then I would leave at 6am
and go on the bus, and so Iwould do overnights.
I would also do the weekends aswell.
So that was kind of what I did.
And yeah, looking back, a lot ofpeople ask me that, like, was
(24:38):
there any writing on the wallthat I was entrepreneurial?
Entrepreneurship?
The idea of it scared me.
I was just like that's so risky, that's so scary you know, I'm
not going to be able to controlmy income all the objections I
now have to overcome in my ownbusiness.
I had those same thoughts andso I will never forget in school
there was an entrepreneurshiplike contest, like a pitch
(25:00):
contest, and they had all theirprojects in like the lobby of
the main campus building and Iremember being after school I
mean like after class walkingaround and being like
interesting.
I could never see myself doingsomething like this.
Look at me now.
Look at me now.
Yeah, I don't think it ever.
It never bit me.
(25:20):
But I will say I was alwayscreative.
I have a dance background.
I danced my whole life.
I have that like art.
I can create something out ofnothing.
I was always a leader too.
I was always running stuff.
Like a nerdy fact about me.
I was a Girl Scout all the wayup through graduation and I got
my gold award, which is likeequivalent to the Eagle Scout
(25:41):
award, and so like I was always,yeah, I was always running
stuff, putting out some project.
I won so many awards in collegebecause I was always creating
clubs, so I I was always likeproducing something.
I just didn't know he paid forit.
That never occurred to me, butyeah.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Those were all the stepping stones to get you to
where you are now.
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
This is also another random question sitting in my
mind as somebody who has triedto help family members how
successful were you in helpingfamily members with the skillset
that you currently have sales,because you mentioned somewhere,
was it around when you werefirst matching your income as a
social worker?
But your family was asking you,how are you doing this?
(26:26):
And you mentioned helping them.
Yeah, teaching them.
How did that actually go?
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yeah, it was super casual and it was specifically
my mom.
My mom's a great, she's ateacher by trade but she's a
great interior designer and soshe would ask me she was like
how can I get some clients?
She actually got a few interiordesign clients.
She has like a little portfolionow and so I helped her.
Also, my cousin has like a cardetailing business and so he was
like how do I set up like mysocial media, how do I get
(26:54):
clients outside of referrals?
So I helped him do that and hestarted getting some business.
I had a friend she was a greatvideographer so I helped her
start to get some weddingsbooked.
So, yeah, nothing, nothingcrazy, but it like for.
For me it was very common sense, but for them they'll be like
whoa, like they, their mindswould be blown and it was fun,
(27:15):
it was help, it was fun.
It would just, you know, wewould meet up for coffee or like
a quick phone call and givethem a few pointers.
Have you struggled with that,helping family members.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Let's just say I have put plenty of time and money
into helping family members andI haven't been very good at it,
so apparently I need to learnhow to help the right way.
Yeah, really unfortunate that Icouldn't help better.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
I think.
The difference, though, is thatit sounds like your family
members were coming to you foradvice.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Just saying, just saying that we're going to have
to take a little intermission.
Maybe unsolicited the co-hosthas gone off the rails.
The co-host has gone off therails.
No, no, it's true.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
True, it's just like different sure, yeah, if people
want to be helped, then theywill seek out the help right,
and if they don't, then hey so,as you're listening to me and DL
and Jamie talk right now, youprobably already know that I was
in China.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
This sounds like I'm going into like a pitch, you
know, to sell my program.
I'm not, though.
I have that tone, you know.
But you know I was in China forlike 12 years.
I did help my family then.
Like I had my mom and my sisterboth moved to China and back
then, like Jamie and I wererunning a tutoring business,
(28:40):
like we had it super structured.
It was not just one-on-one, itwas like one-on-three,
one-on-one, it was like one onthree, one on four and we were
making lots of money and we didoh, we franchised that out for
like 25 commission too to likewell other people.
But then I helped my mom and mysister both do the same thing,
so I have helped family you have.
They both went there like andmade a good amount of money and
(29:02):
I guess, like my sister now shelives in portugal she probably
wouldn't have gone over there ifit wasn't for saving up all
that cash in china and thenexiting there.
So wow random story that'samazing those were the good old
days.
The good old days.
Please tell us, before wefinish the episode, what was one
(29:25):
time, as you were building yourbusiness, where you almost like
quit and like gave it all up togo find, I don't know, social
work again or a different jobthat's along that trajectory
it's actually a concept I teachmy clients now, so I you know it
was.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
I think I might've had like three zero K months in
a row, so like my third month,like not bringing it in my
business and my business wasvery inconsistent and I say like
that's probably the hardestseason in business.
People say the hardest seasonin business is when you're at
zero.
I actually think when it's in,you're in between your goal
because you're like, okay, Ishouldn't quit because I have
(30:04):
been successful in the past butI'm currently not successful
right now.
I think that's the hardest partin business where you have to
pass but the future is looking alittle bleak.
And so it was then where I waslike, okay, I've made money
before, but this is my thirdzero K month.
Should I call it quits?
And there's this like giantafter being dropped off at the
(30:31):
bus, I had to walk up like thisgiant hill, and I would I had
like, oh yeah, it just it justgets worse, right, like in the
snow, rain, sleet, yeah yeah,but it never snows.
In North Carolina snows everythree years, but yeah, and I
would have like these, theseflats with like holes in them,
because I didn't want to spendmoney on shoes, or rather like
buy coaching programs.
And so I remember, like walkingup in the snow, sleet or the
imaginary snow and sleet andwhat felt like snow and sleet
and being like I should justquit.
(30:53):
And then a thought came to myhead and said DL, give it a year
.
How about you actually give itfive?
You can quit after five years.
And then, like after you reallygive it your all, because if
you're trying something everyday for five years, like, then
sure you can hang up the towel.
And then two months later covidhappened sent all of us home to
(31:14):
work from home.
I got a lot of time back.
Yeah, I hit my first 20k monthand then it just kept growing
and growing from there.
And so, like when they say youtypically quit premature, like
right before you're a big breed,I love that feeling now,
whenever I'm like I can't takeany more, like it's going to,
(31:35):
like it's, I'm going to takemyself out.
I love that feeling.
Now I have the awareness to belike oh, dl, you're right there,
you're right there, give it onemore go.
I felt that way with with ads.
All 2023 was like ads are dumb.
I don't like ads.
They're too complicated.
What are we doing all of thisfor?
Terrible, terrible.
(31:56):
And then this year I was likeOkay, what if I do something
differently?
So I'm doing a.
I'm not gonna have the rightterminology you all would have
the better terminology, but I'vebeen calling them Russell
Brunson webinars, where it'sbasically just a live webinar.
So, instead of sending thetraffic to evergreen funnel,
it's a live webinar for me and Ido it every two weeks.
That changed my business.
I was like this is actuallywhat I want to do and I'm so
(32:18):
glad I didn't quit on ads.
I'm so, so glad.
So I like that feeling now.
Yeah, I'm super happy with ourresults.
But now I know, whenever I feelthat way, give it a few more
months and the big break iscoming.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
That's so good.
I'm curious Can I ask how longinto like how long have you been
making money before that threemonths of zeros hit?
Speaker 2 (32:45):
I would.
Maybe it was so inconsistent,like it was right at the
beginning of my business.
So I would get like a $500client there, a $2,500 painful
client there, and then I wouldgo months into getting no sales.
And then I would go and I wouldget another $2,500 client and
then like a few $500 clients andthen it would go into another.
So like it was that just liketrying to push, push the boulder
(33:06):
up the hill to get somethinggoing.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
I feel like if you haven't already that quote about
, like whatever you said about,you didn't want to buy flats.
Instead, you like spent yourmoney on coaching courses.
I feel like that is veryInstagrammable.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Oh sure, yeah, I didn't buy any money on clothes
Cause I was like I hate this jobanyways, I don't have to
impress them.
I was like I was not trying tolook cute for nobody in that
office, I was like they justneed to.
I need to close on my body andI had them on and.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
I wanted to, especially with $2,500, I had to
squeeze out every dime and Iwas like I'd rather you know, I
could spend a hundred dollars ona new pair of shoes, or I could
spend $100 on a course thatcould get me out of here.
Right, right yeah.
They always say choose yourhard, right yeah.
Like either way it's going tobe hard, but pick which one you
want Right.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yeah, very, very true .
What's one thing that you wouldleave, the last thing you would
leave for this episode with thelistener, just in case it takes
them a moment to click in thedescription below and listen to
the next episode, where we'regoing to unpack sales and how to
grow revenue with a bettersales process.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
I will say I'll give one strategy, one mindset.
I would say a lot can changewhen you know how to do a sales
call.
A lot can change.
That was that part where I wasdoing the 20K month.
That's when I finally clickedinto oh, I have to do the sales
call this way, I have to do itthat way.
Oh, I need to say this Learningsales conversations changed my
life.
So that would be number one.
(34:33):
And then number two, time isn'tthe problem.
So if you're like, oh, I don'thave enough time and that's the
reason why I'm not doinganything, it could be, you know,
learning French, it could beanything you want to.
You know, give your time totime isn't the problem.
You are, you're the problem ohouch, that'll hurt.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
That's like the stab, but you know why are you gonna
talk to her like that?
Speaker 2 (35:05):
well it's.
I mean, yeah, with my story Iwas like oh, it wasn't, because
I'm just like.
Everybody was like how am Isupposed to do this?
It wasn't time, it was me.
And then, once I got me figureit out, time didn't matter.
If you can figure out theinternal issue within you, time
will never become a factor.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Wow that's true.
I was just listening to jim ronfrom well, obviously from back
in the day, and he was talkingabout getting rid of, like your
weak, older self that's likebound by fear and believes that
by putting something off until,like you know, whenever it'd be
easier to do, then because ofall these excuses, and he's like
, no, and I'm not doing itjustice.
(35:47):
But I was listening to it andwhen you said the problem is you
, that came to mind.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, we all knowentrepreneurship is nothing but
identity work over and over andover again.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Identity.
Identity my definition of thatis the thoughts you think about
yourself, regardless of thecircumstance.
So, like when I was a socialworker, I had to cosplay as like
a successful coach in my mindin order to do the actions of a
successful coach.
Before I was a successful coach, because that was the identity
that I was trying to cultivate,even though that wasn't my
(36:22):
circumstance.
Those were the thoughts that Iwanted to think about myself.
Right that I'm a successfulcoach, even though that's not my
current reality.
And so, yeah, it's identitywork.
It's thinking about what areyour thoughts about yourself,
regardless of the things aroundyou.
And so I did that work all theway up to a million, and now
it's a little bit morechallenging.
(36:42):
But now I'm trying to thinklike DL, you can make $5 million
.
What would be the $5 millionversion of you?
Not just the million dollar,but the $5 million version of
you, even though that's not inmy bank account right now.
So what are the thoughts youthink about yourself, regardless
of the circumstance?
Speaker 3 (36:58):
That's so good.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
We just have to stop here.
We need to wrap this up, butyeah very good.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
I think lots of us need to hear this right and just
kind of say, okay, we need tostep it up a little and make
some changes thank you forsharing and spending this time
with us absolutely, it was mypleasure.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
thank you for having me very this time with us.
Absolutely, it was my pleasure.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Very welcome, the honor is ours.
Dear listener, if what she justsaid resonated with you, I
normally just have a link to thenext episode.
You'll want to come and hear ustalk about sales for sure,
because learning how to do salescalls right and just have sales
conversations even if they'reon webinars like that will
(37:48):
change your business.
I'm also going to include alink to uh, mindy hubner's
episode.
It came out at the end of 2024and the second one came out at
the beginning of 2025, but a lotof the things that I heard from
DL were resonating me, havingto do with identity, and Mindy
spoke a lot Like I would saythat was the episode that
(38:09):
impacted us both.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Yeah, I was actually thinking of her episode too as
we were talking, so glad yousaid that.
All right, very good, go backand listen to that one.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yep, that will be a link in the show notes below, as
will the YouTube channel link,so you can see our beautiful
selves in the next episode.
Until we see you, or you see usagain, take care, be blessed
and goodbye.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
Bye.
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