September 23, 2024 • 43 mins
This episode dives into the critical but often overwhelming world of marketing for entrepreneurs, particularly those who are neurodivergent. We explore practical strategies to avoid all-or-nothing thinking, ensure consistency, and build sustainable marketing plans.
Jen, now our Chief Marketing Officer with over 20 years in marketing and tech, shares invaluable insights on making your website customer-friendly, the importance of email marketing, and balancing multiple business tasks without succumbing to burnout. We also discuss the difference between sales and marketing, the pitfalls of trendy tools like Clickfunnels, and the need for simplicity and clarity in your marketing approach.
Join us as we uncover actionable tips, personal anecdotes, and the vital role of external support in overcoming marketing challenges to achieve business growth. Plus, don't miss out on our upcoming events and special offers to help you stay on track! Tune in to gain clarity, focus, and a renewed sense of purpose in your marketing efforts. Let's dive in!
Links Mentioned:
Timestamped overview:
00:00 Back after hiatus; revamped business for clients.
05:19 Focus on consistency and manageable actions in business.
07:29 Marketing is overwhelming due to complexity and uncertainty.
10:11 Former tester learned restraint; avoids unnecessary software testing.
15:21 A mentor helps overcome business barriers.
17:13 Made email series more personal and compelling.
20:44 Emotional attachment complicates personal tasks and marketing.
23:37 Clear priorities essential before pursuing marketing efforts.
26:37 Own your website; control your messaging effectively.
30:41 Sunil's success: charisma, networking, personal connections made.
36:03 Email marketing yields high returns for small businesses.
38:57 Prioritize and focus social media for small businesses.
40:20 Elon Musk's changes make account access difficult.
Meet Jen McFarland
Jen McFarland is the CEO & Principle Consultant at Women Conquer Business, a small business marketing consultancy in Portland, OR. Her most notable SEO accomplishment is increasing traffic by 250% for the City of Portland Revenue Bureau (yes, a tax agency!), using customer-centric design and content. Today, she helps service-based businesses increase leads through marketing and SEO strategy.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hey there friend. Welcome back for another episode of the easily distracted
entrepreneur. I've taken a little hiatus for a few reasons,
the least of which was being sick for two months with COVID long
Covid and then bronchitis and then getting Covid
again on my birthday of all things at the start of September. But luckily I
bounced back quickly from that one. My bandwidth was so
(00:23):
little that I focused only on the core of my business, which
is showing up in my memberships and for my one on one clients.
I also was taking a break because I was revamping how I
do the work in my business so that I can show up with the best
energy and serve my clients and you, the podcast listener, in
the most helpful, strategic, supportive way for your neuro
(00:45):
spicy brains and your businesses. There have been
many up levels in the inner circle and incubator in the last couple
months. I share more about that in a
different episode, but one big addition that has
been amazing is Jen McFarlaneous Farland joining the
easily distracted entrepreneur team as chief marketing
(01:07):
officer. Jen is a 20 plus year marketing and tech
professional. She has been providing marketing trainings and
coaching in the membership for the last four months and members are
loving her easy to understand marketing guidance
for even the most tech phobic of you.
Jen's next session is tomorrow, Tuesday, September
(01:29):
25 and it's an ask me anything session where you can get
expert answering of your and marketing
questions. If you ever consider joining the inner circle,
this is the week to do it. Tuesday is Jen's coaching
session, Friday is our Q four quarterly goal
planning workshop and in honor of Virgo season,
(01:50):
you can get a whole year inside the inner circle community for
only dollar 49 a month. Head over to
amberholley.com innercircle to get more information
and or click on the link in the show notes. Jen and I recorded
this episode before she came on as CMO, so we don't discuss
that here. But it's the perfect episode to talk about something
(02:12):
that all of us neuro spicy people struggle with, and that is
consistency. And what does that actually mean when it comes to our
business practices? All or nothing thinking is a common
struggle for us neurodivergent people. Either we're
extremely consistent and maybe a little rigid about it, and
sometimes we can feel like we can't do it perfectly and are
(02:34):
overwhelmed and then it goes to nothing. The in between can
be a struggle, and finding that happy medium is not so
natural for many of us. In our conversation, we talk about
how you can market your business in a sustainable way.
(02:54):
I have an amazing guest with me today who has been on the podcast
before, who I love and adore, the wonderful Jen
McFarland. Welcome, Jen. Hey, thanks so much for having
me. We can't get rid of each other.
We spend a lot of time during every week together. We
do indeed. Yes. Jen is
(03:17):
in my incubator program, but she is also
our resident marketing guru and
marketing and tech guru, I would say here at the easily distracted
entrepreneur. And we just about
an hour ago finished your most recent marketing workshop.
That was amazing. People did not want it to end.
(03:41):
It was fun though. We had a great time. Yeah, it was so good.
Yeah. It was about looking at your website through your customers
eyes. And I think what I love is how you approach
it in such a, in
such an easy way for everyone to understand, like, why
they're doing something, because that helps us be a little more
(04:03):
motivated to actually do something, you know, if we understand the
why. And that could be because, you know, I'm, because I'm
neuro spicy myself. Like, I always have to come up with why?
Why do I have to do this? You know, 100%,
that's part of it. And so when we were talking about why you need to
review your website through your customers eyes, I mean, it sounds like a no brainer,
(04:25):
right? Like you don't really write a website for yourself, but it's so hard to
do because you put so much time and effort into building a website,
so you get a little too close to it. So sometimes you have, need
another, another set of eyes to look at it. And, you
know, even myself, like, that's the thing. Like they say how, like, therapists have
therapists, marketers also have marketers. It's an important part of,
(04:47):
like all of our journeys is to have somebody go like, yeah,
no, yeah, it's
true. Though, because we do get attached. Like, we get very attached.
And I find a, like so many of us, like, we can write
really well, but when we have to do it for ourselves, it becomes
infinitely harder and more difficult.
(05:10):
So that's why I liked the way you approached it because it even got me
thinking about, oh, okay, this is what I should
do differently. Yeah, yeah. And that's the whole point, right? Like,
you know, a lot of times when we talk about, you know, when, when you
and I are working together on my business inside of the incubator program,
it's like, no, jen, like, you don't have to do all the things. What can
(05:31):
we start with? You know? And it's the same thing. With your marketing. Right? Like,
what's the ceiling and what's the floor? Because you can't do all or
nothing. You've, you always have to play into that, like, middle road, you
know, and that's like the consistency of, like, you know, in your business
where you have to check your finances or you have to, you know, tend to
your clients or things like that. And then in your marketing, it's like, okay, well,
(05:53):
what's the bare minimum? You don't have to post every day to social media if
you're going to use that channel, but you need to at least do something, you
know, and. Right. And that's really when we talk about the consistency,
you know, for me, marketing comes down to business goals. It's like, what,
what are we trying to accomplish and why?
You know, we always go back to that center, you know? And if we're
(06:16):
not really clear why we're doing something, then we
really have to stop and, and
refocus our energy. And I guess that's why I usually start with,
well, why is this important? Why should I even care about looking
at my website through my customers eyes? Or why should I even care about a
Google business profile or setting up a strategy, any of those
(06:37):
things? Because if you don't know why you're doing it, then you're not as bought
in. Yes. And also, that means
you probably lack clarity. And for me, I think that
clarity is what makes it easier to execute on things.
For sure. Yeah. And because marketing is changing
so rapidly, people get really overwhelmed. And so
(06:59):
sometimes it's just good to have somebody who's like, no, you don't need
to do all of that. That's okay. Like, I understand why you're looking at that,
but right now, like, this is more pressing, you know, and that's,
that's a lot of the guidance that I think you and I both do with
people is it's really about, like, honoring people's space, and then
I providing that level of guidance and support so that they can
(07:21):
choose a path that's more beneficial to their
longer term goals, 1000%.
And, you know, I think
for so many people, marketing in general is already a
little overwhelming, and they don't, or they don't really understand
it, like, what it is. And we all, I mean, we know
(07:45):
that often people will, like, converge
sales and marketing together, thinking they're the same thing when they're not.
Um, and so, yeah, so people aren't doing it because they're not clear. They,
they feel unsure. And like you said, it's changing all the time. So it feels
like, how do I stay caught up on that when I have to see my
clients do whatever my expertise is? Like, like you said, finance is all
(08:07):
the things. I think that's what becomes so hard for people,
and that's why we go into the all or nothing. It's not because we're
lazy, right? It's because there are too many demands hands on
us, and we don't have that clear strategic plan.
So it becomes the all or nothing, which we know then often creates
inconsistencies in our income. Oh, for sure.
(08:29):
Yeah. Yeah. And part of it, too, is, like, how do
you trick yourself into doing things when you
don't feel like doing it, you know? And marketing is one of the big things
for a lot of people of, like, they don't understand it
and they don't want to feel icky. Like, I help a lot of people who
don't want to be one of those, you know, hey, buy
(08:51):
my stuff. Like, you know, slick marketers, they're not really
interested in that. You know, they want to be like, they want to show
up truly authentically. And that's
scary. You know, there's a little exposure there, and it's
not necessarily what's taught. You know, people oftentimes
in my industry say,
(09:12):
be authentically yourself, just like this
person. And that's not authenticity.
Authenticity is not being like somebody else. It's
actually being yourself. And so it causes a lot of
confusion. And then there's so many tactics, and especially now with, like,
AI, there's just a multitude of options. And I
(09:35):
think it's fair. It's incredibly fair for people to feel
overwhelmed, buy it. And some people
are overwhelmed into paralysis. I would say that
that's not necessarily us. You and I seem to be on the opposite end,
which is, I'm going to try this, I'm going to do this, I'm going to
buy this, I'm going to do it. And
(09:55):
overwhelm ourselves in a different way because we have too many
options, we've bought too many tools, and we need to remember to
cancel some things that we're not using that really weren't a good idea.
And I say that because I do that myself. I used to. I don't know
if you even know this. I used to be, like, an app tester, and I
used to do, like, when I was a business analyst before I started my
(10:16):
business. Like, part of what we did was develop apps, and I did website
development and all kinds of stuff. And it was like, we were always trying to
look at things through the customer lens, you know? And so then now I'm like,
oh, does it do the magical thing that I'm looking for? And then I, part
of the time I just want to test software and it really has nothing to
do with anything. And I've learned to rein that in. That's been
(10:38):
my, my life's work the last couple of years is like, we don't need to
test all the things. That's really rare. I mean, a lot of
people go the other direction and I totally understand it, which is like, I
don't know what to do. So I'm just going to do nothing because
then, like, I'm not going to overwhelm myself. And the
problem with that is because marketing in general is about
(11:00):
awareness and it's about taking people to the doorstep of a sales
conversation. You need marketing so that then
people know how killer you are before you get into the
consult, you know, like marketing drops people off at the
door and says, you know, here's the product,
you know, and everything, you know. And then, and then after that, it's about the
(11:22):
sales process. It's about what is the buying. You know, if you have
a product, like, it's about what is that buying experience? Like, if you have a
service, about how well are you onboarding all of those things.
There also are marketing opportunities inside there. Like if you have a
great onboarding for a client, that is like amazing
marketing for what it's like to work with you. But
(11:45):
by and large, marketing is just sort of like, hey, I'm offering this,
you know, you can explore it here and you can learn
more. And if you're not doing that, then,
then it's really hard for people to know what you're all about.
Absolutely. And the sad part
is I feel like so many of
(12:06):
us who aren't being consistent in our
marketing or are these amazing
experts and have these great services are
the best kept secrets in their industry. And it
feels like the people who are,
like, just more willing to put themselves out there all the time, it doesn't
(12:28):
necessarily mean they're better at all. It's just that they're willing to talk
about it or they're willing to, like, do that awareness,
you know, piece, right? Yeah. You know, like this
month I finally hired somebody to help with my social media because I've
realized now that, like, I'm burned out on it, so I
wasn't doing it, even though it's really powerful when I do it consistently.
(12:51):
And so, like, that's that's an example of, like, me. I would rather write
than do a lot of stuff. But I sat down, she gave me
like, she's like, why don't you talk about this? And I made, like, eight
videos. And I was like, why do I stall on this so much? Like, it
was like, I made eight videos. I edited them, like,
all of it in under an hour. And I was like, what is wrong with
(13:12):
me that I can't just sit down and do this, you know?
And it's that, you know, sometimes we block on stuff,
you know, or we. But having that accountability, I mean,
I think that that's what's so powerful about, you
know, being part of a group or, you know, having a marketing coach
or having somebody to help you with, you know, anxiety
(13:34):
or, you know, being neuro spicy. I mean, I think all of that
accountability is what can really help. And so for me, having somebody who's like,
hey, jen, why don't you make videos about this? I'm like, oh, okay.
Just tell me what you want. There's something way easier about that.
And I say that as somebody who's dishing out marketing advice all the
time, but like many people, by the end of the
(13:56):
day, because I'm meeting with clients all the time, I'm kind of like, I don't
feel like marketing. I've been doing marketing all day. I don't want to do
it. And so it's kind of, it's kind
of like that for other people. You've been working hard with clients all day.
Sometimes you're like, you're tired, you don't want to do it, but you still have
to do it because that's, you're right. Like, the people who
(14:18):
are out there all the time, you know, they're getting, like,
the credibility or the notoriety, but that doesn't
necessarily mean they're better at what they do than you.
Absolutely. And you know what? Your example is so great,
because what that totally highlighted is
that it's clarity, because you had somebody
(14:39):
saying, this is what you need to create, and you could just create it.
Like you said, there's too many options. And this is where I
see so many people getting stuck not just with marketing, but with
everything in their business. Or what should I do? What should my goals be? What
should I focus on? It's like, there's so many options, but if you just did
the one thing and you don't overthink it, so you
(15:01):
were able to get it done in an hour, which I have to say, I'm
so impressed by that. That's
amazing. But that's the power of not just
the accountability piece, but it's like somebody giving you
a, like, taking away all the noise and giving you a clear
direction and you can just execute. And that's the
thing. You know, working with somebody who is
(15:25):
caring and knowledgeable can clear the barriers. That's,
that's really the thing. And so when, you know, and it's interesting, I think that
a lot of people don't want to talk about the fact that they themselves, within
their businesses, have barriers. Like me saying that sometimes I
want somebody else to boss me. That doesn't, that doesn't mean that I'm
not very capable and an expert in my field. It means that I'm smart
(15:46):
enough to know I need somebody to tell me what to do
sometimes because I'm focused on other things. I think that when
you're building a business, it's really easy to go into your
genius, into your comfort zone, and forget about things like
marketing, forget about things like finance, if that's not
really your jam, you know? And then all these other,
(16:09):
all these other areas of your business are equally important. And if
you're not tending to, like, a garden,
you know, you can, the weeds can overrun everything else that you're trying to
do. And that's the importance of being consistent in
several areas of your business. Absolutely. Yeah.
I think, you know, I've, we've said this many times, and I know people
(16:32):
say this a lot. It's like, you can't always
do your genius or what is now that I say, we say it all the
time, and I will screw it up, but you can't
work your genius on yourself. And like you said, I think that, and
I think it does come down to, like, people feeling,
oh, are people going to think I'm not good enough or I'm a bad business
(16:54):
owner or I don't have all the answers. And it's like, yeah,
actually, the smartest people know when they need to get out of
the way and stop being the bottleneck. Right? Yeah. Same thing for
me. I needed to hire somebody to do what I can do so easily
for others. I need someone to help me be accountable and to
focus and to, like. Clear barriers and stuff. And, you know, that was the thing.
(17:16):
Like, I got some help with my welcome series, um, in the winter,
and I put it out, like, right before I went on a big
trip, like, and I was just like, this just needs to get done. And I
talked to somebody about it, and you know, and I just had them read
what I had done before, and they're like, your personality isn't even in here. And
I, you know, my, I have a pretty big personality. Like, most
(17:38):
people think I'm taller than I am. And I think it's because, like, if,
if you include the personality, it's much more than five foot five,
you know? Like, it's just how it is, you know? And so
it had to be, like, I had to go through and make it
sound more like me. Well, when I led the training to my
membership last week about how to craft,
(18:00):
like, the most compelling email sequences, I told
them, which is very true, I felt like I almost had to leave my body
and write it as if it was for a client, you know? And that could
be really hard. But, like, that's kind of how it works with a lot of
us, is like, I can write copy all day long for a client. I can
write headlines. I can do all kinds of stuff. And then I sit down to
(18:21):
do my own thing, and I'm like, uh, uh, what? I don't know what I'm
supposed to do here. I haven't put two sentences together in my life,
you know, and it's really hard. And I think there are a
lot of people who feel that way. And I think that
part of it is, if you feel that way about marketing,
there are people who will teach you how to
(18:43):
do marketing in a way that makes sense to you, in a way that's sustainable.
Meaning you're not going to burn yourself out and you're not going to feel like
you have to do all the things. And I think that is what is
one of the most important gems you could find is for some of
these areas of your business that, you know, you need support, is
like, find somebody who can make it manageable
(19:05):
so that everything is in balance.
Absolutely. It's so funny because
I just realized I have not seen you in person
since we met. I thought we had seen, we were supposed to be
together at a few events, and they got canceled during or, like, uh, they
went virtual or canceled. And I'm like, you're only five. Five.
(19:26):
Like that? I'm sorry. That's just a total aside there.
Yeah. This is why I should write down what I wanted to say, because, like,
that just, I was like, my brain's like, no, you're late.
Yeah, I went and got photos a couple weeks ago,
and my friend Nick, they were like, I
always thought you were taller. I'm like, because they're walking and they're walking really
(19:49):
fast. And I'm like, hey, hey, short legs back here. And they're
like, what? And I'm like, you know, and they're from New
York, and so they walk really fast anyway. And I'm like, I'm only five
foot five. And they said the same thing, like, oh, you seem
so much taller. I'm like, you do? That's just my personality. Don't worry about it.
100%. Well, so going
(20:11):
back to actually the pertinent stuff, even though that was just, I'm sorry I could
not go there, be pregnant, you know, like you said, when you
go to write something, I think the other piece of that is
we can show up so easily for others, and
to show up for ourselves is much, much harder. And I know,
like, I'm guessing you had the same experience. It's like when you go to do
(20:34):
it for yourself, it's like my brain just feels, like, kind of
overwhelmed, and it feels like it short circuits sometimes. Like, I can't. It's not
even possible. And so, yeah, that's why. That's what I mean when I was
like, I never put two sentences together. Like, it's like
you kind of forget. And it's also, you know, and you can speak to this
way more than I can. Like, it's all of that emotional stuff that comes
(20:56):
in, I think. I mean, experientially in working with
clients and working with myself, it's. It's kind of like when
you go to, like, like, I remember when I hired movers to
move us and they had professional packers come in and they packed our whole house
in like 2 hours and we were gone. But if you've ever gone to move
your own stuff, like, don't you go through everything and you have all these
(21:18):
memories and you do all of, you know, and it takes a long time, right?
And it's the same thing when you go to do your own marketing or when
you are tending to your business. You go through the Rolodex of all the things
you remember and, oh, this was really hard once, or this is how I did
it once. And all that stuff can really weigh you down. Sometimes
you just need to be like, and, like, pretend you're a professional mover or a
(21:38):
professional marketer, you know, and just clear it out. But it can be a really
big challenge. It can be difficult. And I think that
that's one of the reasons working with people or being a member of a
group can really help you navigate that. You feel less alone and you also
feel like you have the support to, like, move through some of
that. Yeah, cut through the noise. So let's
(22:00):
talk about some options people have. So
we know we want it to be sustainable. We know we have to.
I think we know we have to
make it for ourselves. Whatever our capacity
is, whatever our bandwidth is. Being thoughtful
that if you don't have a team, you're wearing multiple hats.
(22:22):
And I find, again, working with so many people that it's like,
but I'm supposed to do this much so it feels like
a failure again. So that's the all or nothing. But what, where
would you say to start for people if they're like, okay,
I only have, you know, this much capacity. What
should I do to really, what is the best bang for my buck
(22:45):
marketing wise? Yeah, I would say whatever you think your capacity
is most of the time, cut that by half,
if I'm honest. Like, that's one of
the places where I get a lot of pushback. Like, and we
do quarterly marketing strategy planning in my
membership, and then I do it also, of course, with individual
(23:08):
clients. And I get a lot of pushback because people are like, well, I have
this business goal and this business goal and this business goal. I'm like, you don't
have bandwidth for that. What's the number one goal? And we just
try to clear it, you know, because people oftentimes
take on too much and it's rare. I mean, there are some people who,
you don't ever give the cut 50% because,
(23:30):
like, there are some people who, like, don't want to do any marketing
or don't, don't push themselves hard enough. So I want to honor that.
That's a reality for some people. But many people
who own small businesses and they have growth goals and they have
their, they do tend to be a little driven and want to,
like, really push themselves. And they tend to, especially women
(23:53):
who, which is who I work with, women and femme people,
they're pushing themselves really hard and they want to do all of the things
immediately. And it's really hard to focus on too much stuff. At
the same time, if you don't have a team and you don't have a big
budget and you don't have piles of support, you
have to really be clear about your priorities and what
(24:16):
are your top priorities. And then after that, it's
like, once you know your priorities, then, then the marketing stuff comes
in a lot. That's one of the problems a lot of people have anyway, is
they put marketing in the wrong order of everything else.
Like if you don't, if you're not clear about where your business is going or
what it is that you want to do, like, it's, it's not
(24:37):
time, you know, that's why, like, when I teach marketing
foundations, you know, social media is not the first thing you should
do. Why start talking to people when you don't know
your messaging? Why start putting stuff out there when it could
be like the wrong. Wrong, quote unquote wrong thing or
not really what you're about just because it's the easiest way.
(24:59):
Some people think social media is so easy,
and it's not really like, you know, it's much easier when
you know who your customers are, what your key points are, and what
you're promoting, what's most important. Yeah, and I'm sure
you find this, because I've had this with quite a few
clients, too, where they're talking about social media,
(25:21):
or I'm going to hire somebody, I'm going to outsource social media like you
did. And then I'm
like, well, why? They have zero
strategy around the social media and their
website's not like they should spend time on their
website. I'm going to say it in a nice way. I'm like, you, where you
(25:42):
send people, it's kind of like doing ads. You know, when I talk to people
doing, like, Google Ads, I'm like, if you send it to a crappy site,
it's not going to help you. You just have to. You're paying more for
eyeballs and it's not going to convert. Right. I feel
like the foundation is your website. I don't know if you agree with that
or. Yeah, I mean, it's part of it. I mean,
(26:05):
that said, I do know people. I worked with a client
who had been in business since 1991. This was during the
pandemic, and they had their first website
ever that wasn't just a landing page. It is very
unusual, though. And actually when I brought the designer on,
they were like, is this guy for real? Like, there's no website here and they
(26:26):
say they've been in business forever. So, like, even somebody like that, like,
there are still people who are going to. Because it's your landing spot, you know,
that said, I do think that you need some, and it's the techie part. You
do need some tech tools in place to kind of help you manage
things before the website. But yeah, the website's one of the first things. I mean,
you need a place that you own that's not owned by a big tech
(26:49):
company like Facebook or LinkedIn or
Google. Like, you need a spot that you own where you control the messaging
and that you're able to, that you own fully
and can edit so that you're able to, like, adjust the messaging as
you, as you go and can really
test what works. And that's the thing that's one of my
(27:11):
claim to fame. It got me in a documentary, which I think is finally going
to be released at the end of the year, is that I wrote this blistering
blog post about clickfunnels because it's like dollar
200 a month, and they're marketing to brand new business owners
who don't even need a sales page, let alone like, a
funnel. And the whole point I made in the documentary
(27:33):
is all that a sales funnel is, is your sales process moved
online. And it doesn't have to be like, something really
complicated, but it has to be something so that you send
somebody someplace that makes sense. And that's the problem with,
like, social media first, is that if you don't have a place
to send them, like you said, it doesn't make any sense. Ads, you
(27:55):
know, you have to have a place where the messaging is clear
and you don't need clickfunnels for that. You just don't, you
know, where were you in? Like, let's see, it was how
many years ago when I paid $1,000 for clickfunnels? I mean, it was a long
time ago. And yes, did not use it once because I was not
ready for it. Right. I mean, you know, now you would
(28:17):
be more ready for it, but you've since developed, like, a whole suite
of tools, you know? But really, clickfunnels is good if you have a team, you
know, now everybody's talking about go high level. It's
not as sleazy as clickfunnels in terms of their sales
tactics, but the product itself is not
built for the typical small business owner. And now what you're seeing
(28:41):
is the same thing, similar to Clickfunnels, where everybody's trying to
do their resell, affiliate licensing,
and it's really making everything, it's really making everything
very cloudy and very difficult for people to know what they actually
need when go high level. Go high level is great for people like
me. If you're running, like a marketing agency
(29:03):
of some kind, it works really well for that.
But it's not a typical business owner tool.
And it's being sold that way. And that's what makes marketing so confusing for people
is everybody's hearing now well, I have to jump
on that tool. No, you don't. You need to have
a solid, a solid platform where you're communicating your
(29:26):
offers clearly with a clear call to action.
That's either to schedule an appointment with you or buy
the product. And that's it
exactly. I was like, and that goes back to
why that there's so many times when I'm on a coaching call with someone and
I'm like, well, why are you doing that? My two things I say a lot
(29:48):
are, what's your rush
and why are you doing that? Not again, in a very
loving, caring way of like, I want to understand why you're doing
something, but there are so many times where it's like, but
why? And they're like, because I, because I saw something or I
attended a summit or whatever, and I'm like, okay, so let's,
(30:10):
let's again go back to foundation. My side note is, this
is my soapbox. Yes, you can have a business without a website and
make money, but like Jen said, that is so,
like, rare. And I know there for every time you say
this, people come out and they're like, oh, you don't need to. I have, you
know, I make 100,000 a year and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like,
(30:32):
well, for the most part, no. And I'm just going to tell you, they don't
have consistency. Although I've come to think, like, many of them are
just outright lying. But, yeah, I mean,
this client, Sunil, is really successful,
but it's very rare, you know, and I look at some of
the stuff that they were putting out before, and I was like,
(30:56):
you know, but it worked. It worked for them and, but the reason it
worked, it works and worked for them is because they have a great deal of
charisma and they spend a lot of time getting to know people
through networking. Like, that's their whole jam, is networking. So, like,
they've already made that personal connection. So
if you're sending someone to a landing page, they've already got the know like and
(31:18):
trust factor that many of my clients
don't have when they first come to me. You know, a lot of times we
make these assumptions that people will leap from a platform like social media
straight to buying, when really it's a
dance, it's a conversation that takes a little bit longer than that, and that's
where the consistency piece really comes in. What are we trying to do and why?
(31:41):
What's the timeline? Because depending on the timeline, that's where things
like paid ads come into play sometimes a
little bit ahead of maybe where you're ready for it.
But, yeah, I mean, there is an order. A
lot of the work that I've done here with Prosper, Portland's
inclusive business resource network, it's a government contract I've had now
(32:03):
for five or six years. A lot of that work
is about that order of operations that we go through with clients
about. Here's how marketing works. Here's the
order in which you need to, you know, develop and adopt
certain things if you're going to be successful. And it really clarifies things
for a lot of people, and it makes it a lot easier because the thing
(32:25):
of it is, like, even though marketing has changed a ton over the last six
years, fundamentally how you plan a
strategy has not. The tactics for how you get there have
changed. Now, we use AI for some things, and it didn't really
exist six years ago,
but the idea of how you craft a
(32:46):
strategy and how you need to be consistent
and sustainable within the bounds of how
much money you have, how many people you have, none of that has
changed. It's all the same.
And everybody says that I'm some beginner marketer. I'm not.
But I talk about things in a way that's so approachable. People
(33:08):
think that I'm just a beginner marketer. And it's like, no, I
think that you need to understand it so, you know, the decisions that you're making
and the impacts that it has. And I don't need to talk above people's
heads because I don't. My whole point is I want people to not be
overwhelmed or lost. And if your marketer makes you feel
like that, get somebody else, because it doesn't have to be that way.
(33:30):
Yeah. And actually, I know we had this discussion before because I had
a client who had a bad experience with their web
developer, and I find the people who are talking
over your heads actually know less. And that, that's where, like, the
more time I spent with you, I was like, oh, damn, you know, some stuff,
like, you are really good at this. And, and it
(33:53):
was like, yeah, if you, you can communicate things in such
a clear, straightforward way. And, like,
people want to be wooed with big terminology, but usually those
people have no clue what they're doing.
Yeah, a lot of them don't, or they don't, or they know what worked for
them. And that's really the one of the other things before you go hire
(34:15):
a marketer is like, can I talk to your clients? Is there, do you have
a case study. Do you have, like, you know, because you, you
want to know, like. Cause somebody can sound really smart, but if they've
never done it. And a lot of us stay, like, in our own lane. Like,
there are certain services that I can make advising, but I
would never implement it for somebody. Like, I can tell, like, for example, I can
(34:37):
be like, you should do Pinterest ads. I don't do
Pinterest ads. You know, like, I mean, but I know it
when I see it, you know, like, I know when, when something is a good
idea and I can advise it, but I'm not going to be the person to,
to push all the buttons, you know, and, and that's the thing to look out
for too, are people who say they can do everything. Like,
(34:59):
it's, it's such a big discipline, marketing,
that it's not, um, there's no one expert for
everything. 100%. Yeah. So if we're
thinking about the person is
like, the business owner is saying, okay, I need to create a
marketing plan and I need it to be
(35:21):
sustainable. And they feasibly have a
website. And I'm sure then you would also say, like, does the website do
its job? Does it have good SEO? Like, let's presume
they presume it does. Let's presume they took your master class, which,
by the way, is recorded. So if you join the inner circle, you
can have it. Oh my gosh. Let's say they did your master
(35:44):
classes and they have
really nailed their customer. Like, speaking to
their customer and their SEO, what would be the next thing you would recommend?
And I know that's hard given that it's not a real, like, I don't have,
you can't ask them, what is your goal? Probably, but what would you say is
the next step? I mean, after a solid website, and
(36:06):
they usually run in tandem, is email marketing.
On average, for every dollar you put into email marketing, small
business owner gets $40 back
and people say, oh, emails dead, blah, blah, blah.
It's not. If you run a
product based business or you're going direct to consumer, meaning
(36:29):
your clients aren't other businesses, then you really need email
marketing plus sms or text messages.
Because like Apple and Google, there have been all these privacy
constraints that have made it harder to get into inboxes. If people
have an Apple email or Gmail account
versus a Google workspace or office
(36:51):
365 email, that
said, if they subscribe, which is the
only way to do email marketing, they do want to hear from you,
so why not email them? They're a captive
audience. They've likely bought from you or they're interested in
you. Message them, and you're still going to get more
(37:13):
returns on that than you would if you did social media.
And then don't forget to use social media to build your list.
Like, I did it. I did a test one month. I do tests all the
time to back up what I'm saying. So then I
can tell clients, like, I did a
tester, it's
(37:35):
data. Yeah, it's just data, you know? And I'm like, yeah, that's
what the stats say. But then I did a test on my own
social media. And boy, I'll tell you, if once a week you say, subscribe to
my email, guess what people do? They subscribe to your email
list. You know, and then, so it would be like, have a
good website, have a solid SEO, make sure you're communicating with your
(37:57):
customers, and then back that up with
email marketing. And most of the time, if you're not emailing people at
all, then it's like, okay, well, can we agree to, like,
monthly? Like, can we just, can we just start there, you
know, and then can we build up from there? Because people get really
concerned about emailing too much. But most of the time, I find
(38:19):
people don't email often enough. 100%. Yeah,
I know we feel like we're bothering people, but
if people want to hear from you, I have people who email all the time
and I never unsubscribe because I do want to see some of their stuff. I
just, sometimes I'm like, oh, my God, that's too much. You know, but, but I
just deleted or whatever. Well, let's face it, I don't delete it because I just
(38:42):
scroll down, keep going above the folds.
But I would ask how many emails you have, but
it would probably give me heart palpitations. Would give you heart palpitations?
But, yeah, like, people that would subscribe with people they want to hear
from. Absolutely. 100%. I'd also say that
having your Google Business profile is really important. And then
(39:05):
claiming all of your social media profiles and picking one
or two, like, you don't have to be present everywhere.
That's one of the places where people really overwhelm themselves is they feel like they
need to do a full omni channel approach to
social media, which is like, I have to be everywhere all at once. And like
most small businesses don't have the energy or the
(39:27):
staffing to be good at all of it. So you need to pick and choose
and there are all kinds of places where you can research, you
know, where your people are. I suggest, you know,
polling your actual customers, too, to
find the best spot. That's great. Yeah. And like you
said, make sure, though, you actually take
(39:50):
the real estate. I can't think of the word. What's the
word? When you take, like, if I go on Instagram and I claim
it. Yeah, there's. There's a word that's, like, on the tip of my
tongue, stupid agnosia. But, like, I claimed
all of it. Like, I have my twitters for, like, the different businesses
I've started. I've claimed them. I never use Twitter. It's
(40:11):
too overwhelming. I mean, x or whatever, but, you know,
it's, like, too overwhelming. But I want to make sure that somebody else can't take
it. Absolutely. Yeah. I can't even get
into my ex for women conquer biz. It's
there. I think that at one point, it had two factor on it, and
then after Elon Musk bought it, now you can't do two
(40:33):
factor unless you pay for it. And I'm like, interesting. I'm not even sure if
I can remember the password to set up two. You know, like, it's kind of
like, I'm not going to pay for it just so I can figure out the
password. That's hilarious.
We were about out of time. But remind me to tell you the story about
how I reported myself to Twitter. That sounds
(40:55):
like a great story. It's so bad. Back when it was still
Twitter. But, yeah, I'm like, oh, it took me a
couple days. I figured it out. I was like, oh, I just reported
myself. Oh, my gosh. Anyway,
yeah, I feel like this.
I like that we're having this conversation about sustainability, because I do think it's
(41:17):
important, because it is that all or nothing of, like, it's too
much. I can't deal with it. So I just want to bury my head in
the sand and not deal with it. But as we see,
as business has been shifting more and more, we need to have
consistency in our marketing and our sales processes
to ensure viability as a business. Yeah,
(41:38):
well, I have a phrase up here I keep meaning to write a blog post
about it, and it says, you don't have to do
anything. Meaning, if you don't want to do video, you don't have to do
video. You don't have to do anything, but you have to do
something. I love that.
All right, I'm going to, you know, as your accountability coach, I'm going to make
(42:00):
sure that that's done in the next. I'm just kidding. I'm joking.
I know. I should do it. You should. That's the thing about
marketing. You don't have to do anything, but you have to do
something. I love that. Well, that is the perfect note to
end on. Thank you so much, Jen. And
I think every month Jen is teaching
(42:22):
marketing training and is available for Q and a coaching,
general coaching around marketing. And next
month I'm pretty sure we're going to focus on something email based.
I don't know. We still have. Our meeting
isn't until the fifth. Okay. Yeah,
so we'll figure that out. But I'm just letting you guys know,
(42:44):
you can get a little taste or you can head on over to Jen's membership
where she does this all the time. That's right.
Remember, with the right strategy and plan, you can grow your
business without overworking. You don't have to do it alone either.
You can join other ambitious business owners this Friday for quarterly
goal planning. So grab your spot now and don't delay.
Hey there friend. Welcome back for another episode of the easily distracted
entrepreneur. I've taken a little hiatus for a few reasons,
the least of which was being sick for two months with COVID long
Covid and then bronchitis and then getting Covid
again on my birthday of all things at the start of September. But luckily I
bounced back quickly from that one. My bandwidth was so
(00:23):
little that I focused only on the core of my business, which
is showing up in my memberships and for my one on one clients.
I also was taking a break because I was revamping how I
do the work in my business so that I can show up with the best
energy and serve my clients and you, the podcast listener, in
the most helpful, strategic, supportive way for your neuro
(00:45):
spicy brains and your businesses. There have been
many up levels in the inner circle and incubator in the last couple
months. I share more about that in a
different episode, but one big addition that has
been amazing is Jen McFarlaneous Farland joining the
easily distracted entrepreneur team as chief marketing
(01:07):
officer. Jen is a 20 plus year marketing and tech
professional. She has been providing marketing trainings and
coaching in the membership for the last four months and members are
loving her easy to understand marketing guidance
for even the most tech phobic of you.
Jen's next session is tomorrow, Tuesday, September
(01:29):
25 and it's an ask me anything session where you can get
expert answering of your and marketing
questions. If you ever consider joining the inner circle,
this is the week to do it. Tuesday is Jen's coaching
session, Friday is our Q four quarterly goal
planning workshop and in honor of Virgo season,
(01:50):
you can get a whole year inside the inner circle community for
only dollar 49 a month. Head over to
amberholley.com innercircle to get more information
and or click on the link in the show notes. Jen and I recorded
this episode before she came on as CMO, so we don't discuss
that here. But it's the perfect episode to talk about something
(02:12):
that all of us neuro spicy people struggle with, and that is
consistency. And what does that actually mean when it comes to our
business practices? All or nothing thinking is a common
struggle for us neurodivergent people. Either we're
extremely consistent and maybe a little rigid about it, and
sometimes we can feel like we can't do it perfectly and are
(02:34):
overwhelmed and then it goes to nothing. The in between can
be a struggle, and finding that happy medium is not so
natural for many of us. In our conversation, we talk about
how you can market your business in a sustainable way.
(02:54):
I have an amazing guest with me today who has been on the podcast
before, who I love and adore, the wonderful Jen
McFarland. Welcome, Jen. Hey, thanks so much for having
me. We can't get rid of each other.
We spend a lot of time during every week together. We
do indeed. Yes. Jen is
(03:17):
in my incubator program, but she is also
our resident marketing guru and
marketing and tech guru, I would say here at the easily distracted
entrepreneur. And we just about
an hour ago finished your most recent marketing workshop.
That was amazing. People did not want it to end.
(03:41):
It was fun though. We had a great time. Yeah, it was so good.
Yeah. It was about looking at your website through your customers
eyes. And I think what I love is how you approach
it in such a, in
such an easy way for everyone to understand, like, why
they're doing something, because that helps us be a little more
(04:03):
motivated to actually do something, you know, if we understand the
why. And that could be because, you know, I'm, because I'm
neuro spicy myself. Like, I always have to come up with why?
Why do I have to do this? You know, 100%,
that's part of it. And so when we were talking about why you need to
review your website through your customers eyes, I mean, it sounds like a no brainer,
(04:25):
right? Like you don't really write a website for yourself, but it's so hard to
do because you put so much time and effort into building a website,
so you get a little too close to it. So sometimes you have, need
another, another set of eyes to look at it. And, you
know, even myself, like, that's the thing. Like they say how, like, therapists have
therapists, marketers also have marketers. It's an important part of,
(04:47):
like all of our journeys is to have somebody go like, yeah,
no, yeah, it's
true. Though, because we do get attached. Like, we get very attached.
And I find a, like so many of us, like, we can write
really well, but when we have to do it for ourselves, it becomes
infinitely harder and more difficult.
(05:10):
So that's why I liked the way you approached it because it even got me
thinking about, oh, okay, this is what I should
do differently. Yeah, yeah. And that's the whole point, right? Like,
you know, a lot of times when we talk about, you know, when, when you
and I are working together on my business inside of the incubator program,
it's like, no, jen, like, you don't have to do all the things. What can
(05:31):
we start with? You know? And it's the same thing. With your marketing. Right? Like,
what's the ceiling and what's the floor? Because you can't do all or
nothing. You've, you always have to play into that, like, middle road, you
know, and that's like the consistency of, like, you know, in your business
where you have to check your finances or you have to, you know, tend to
your clients or things like that. And then in your marketing, it's like, okay, well,
(05:53):
what's the bare minimum? You don't have to post every day to social media if
you're going to use that channel, but you need to at least do something, you
know, and. Right. And that's really when we talk about the consistency,
you know, for me, marketing comes down to business goals. It's like, what,
what are we trying to accomplish and why?
You know, we always go back to that center, you know? And if we're
(06:16):
not really clear why we're doing something, then we
really have to stop and, and
refocus our energy. And I guess that's why I usually start with,
well, why is this important? Why should I even care about looking
at my website through my customers eyes? Or why should I even care about a
Google business profile or setting up a strategy, any of those
(06:37):
things? Because if you don't know why you're doing it, then you're not as bought
in. Yes. And also, that means
you probably lack clarity. And for me, I think that
clarity is what makes it easier to execute on things.
For sure. Yeah. And because marketing is changing
so rapidly, people get really overwhelmed. And so
(06:59):
sometimes it's just good to have somebody who's like, no, you don't need
to do all of that. That's okay. Like, I understand why you're looking at that,
but right now, like, this is more pressing, you know, and that's,
that's a lot of the guidance that I think you and I both do with
people is it's really about, like, honoring people's space, and then
I providing that level of guidance and support so that they can
(07:21):
choose a path that's more beneficial to their
longer term goals, 1000%.
And, you know, I think
for so many people, marketing in general is already a
little overwhelming, and they don't, or they don't really understand
it, like, what it is. And we all, I mean, we know
(07:45):
that often people will, like, converge
sales and marketing together, thinking they're the same thing when they're not.
Um, and so, yeah, so people aren't doing it because they're not clear. They,
they feel unsure. And like you said, it's changing all the time. So it feels
like, how do I stay caught up on that when I have to see my
clients do whatever my expertise is? Like, like you said, finance is all
(08:07):
the things. I think that's what becomes so hard for people,
and that's why we go into the all or nothing. It's not because we're
lazy, right? It's because there are too many demands hands on
us, and we don't have that clear strategic plan.
So it becomes the all or nothing, which we know then often creates
inconsistencies in our income. Oh, for sure.
(08:29):
Yeah. Yeah. And part of it, too, is, like, how do
you trick yourself into doing things when you
don't feel like doing it, you know? And marketing is one of the big things
for a lot of people of, like, they don't understand it
and they don't want to feel icky. Like, I help a lot of people who
don't want to be one of those, you know, hey, buy
(08:51):
my stuff. Like, you know, slick marketers, they're not really
interested in that. You know, they want to be like, they want to show
up truly authentically. And that's
scary. You know, there's a little exposure there, and it's
not necessarily what's taught. You know, people oftentimes
in my industry say,
(09:12):
be authentically yourself, just like this
person. And that's not authenticity.
Authenticity is not being like somebody else. It's
actually being yourself. And so it causes a lot of
confusion. And then there's so many tactics, and especially now with, like,
AI, there's just a multitude of options. And I
(09:35):
think it's fair. It's incredibly fair for people to feel
overwhelmed, buy it. And some people
are overwhelmed into paralysis. I would say that
that's not necessarily us. You and I seem to be on the opposite end,
which is, I'm going to try this, I'm going to do this, I'm going to
buy this, I'm going to do it. And
(09:55):
overwhelm ourselves in a different way because we have too many
options, we've bought too many tools, and we need to remember to
cancel some things that we're not using that really weren't a good idea.
And I say that because I do that myself. I used to. I don't know
if you even know this. I used to be, like, an app tester, and I
used to do, like, when I was a business analyst before I started my
(10:16):
business. Like, part of what we did was develop apps, and I did website
development and all kinds of stuff. And it was like, we were always trying to
look at things through the customer lens, you know? And so then now I'm like,
oh, does it do the magical thing that I'm looking for? And then I, part
of the time I just want to test software and it really has nothing to
do with anything. And I've learned to rein that in. That's been
(10:38):
my, my life's work the last couple of years is like, we don't need to
test all the things. That's really rare. I mean, a lot of
people go the other direction and I totally understand it, which is like, I
don't know what to do. So I'm just going to do nothing because
then, like, I'm not going to overwhelm myself. And the
problem with that is because marketing in general is about
(11:00):
awareness and it's about taking people to the doorstep of a sales
conversation. You need marketing so that then
people know how killer you are before you get into the
consult, you know, like marketing drops people off at the
door and says, you know, here's the product,
you know, and everything, you know. And then, and then after that, it's about the
(11:22):
sales process. It's about what is the buying. You know, if you have
a product, like, it's about what is that buying experience? Like, if you have a
service, about how well are you onboarding all of those things.
There also are marketing opportunities inside there. Like if you have a
great onboarding for a client, that is like amazing
marketing for what it's like to work with you. But
(11:45):
by and large, marketing is just sort of like, hey, I'm offering this,
you know, you can explore it here and you can learn
more. And if you're not doing that, then,
then it's really hard for people to know what you're all about.
Absolutely. And the sad part
is I feel like so many of
(12:06):
us who aren't being consistent in our
marketing or are these amazing
experts and have these great services are
the best kept secrets in their industry. And it
feels like the people who are,
like, just more willing to put themselves out there all the time, it doesn't
(12:28):
necessarily mean they're better at all. It's just that they're willing to talk
about it or they're willing to, like, do that awareness,
you know, piece, right? Yeah. You know, like this
month I finally hired somebody to help with my social media because I've
realized now that, like, I'm burned out on it, so I
wasn't doing it, even though it's really powerful when I do it consistently.
(12:51):
And so, like, that's that's an example of, like, me. I would rather write
than do a lot of stuff. But I sat down, she gave me
like, she's like, why don't you talk about this? And I made, like, eight
videos. And I was like, why do I stall on this so much? Like, it
was like, I made eight videos. I edited them, like,
all of it in under an hour. And I was like, what is wrong with
(13:12):
me that I can't just sit down and do this, you know?
And it's that, you know, sometimes we block on stuff,
you know, or we. But having that accountability, I mean,
I think that that's what's so powerful about, you
know, being part of a group or, you know, having a marketing coach
or having somebody to help you with, you know, anxiety
(13:34):
or, you know, being neuro spicy. I mean, I think all of that
accountability is what can really help. And so for me, having somebody who's like,
hey, jen, why don't you make videos about this? I'm like, oh, okay.
Just tell me what you want. There's something way easier about that.
And I say that as somebody who's dishing out marketing advice all the
time, but like many people, by the end of the
(13:56):
day, because I'm meeting with clients all the time, I'm kind of like, I don't
feel like marketing. I've been doing marketing all day. I don't want to do
it. And so it's kind of, it's kind
of like that for other people. You've been working hard with clients all day.
Sometimes you're like, you're tired, you don't want to do it, but you still have
to do it because that's, you're right. Like, the people who
(14:18):
are out there all the time, you know, they're getting, like,
the credibility or the notoriety, but that doesn't
necessarily mean they're better at what they do than you.
Absolutely. And you know what? Your example is so great,
because what that totally highlighted is
that it's clarity, because you had somebody
(14:39):
saying, this is what you need to create, and you could just create it.
Like you said, there's too many options. And this is where I
see so many people getting stuck not just with marketing, but with
everything in their business. Or what should I do? What should my goals be? What
should I focus on? It's like, there's so many options, but if you just did
the one thing and you don't overthink it, so you
(15:01):
were able to get it done in an hour, which I have to say, I'm
so impressed by that. That's
amazing. But that's the power of not just
the accountability piece, but it's like somebody giving you
a, like, taking away all the noise and giving you a clear
direction and you can just execute. And that's the
thing. You know, working with somebody who is
(15:25):
caring and knowledgeable can clear the barriers. That's,
that's really the thing. And so when, you know, and it's interesting, I think that
a lot of people don't want to talk about the fact that they themselves, within
their businesses, have barriers. Like me saying that sometimes I
want somebody else to boss me. That doesn't, that doesn't mean that I'm
not very capable and an expert in my field. It means that I'm smart
(15:46):
enough to know I need somebody to tell me what to do
sometimes because I'm focused on other things. I think that when
you're building a business, it's really easy to go into your
genius, into your comfort zone, and forget about things like
marketing, forget about things like finance, if that's not
really your jam, you know? And then all these other,
(16:09):
all these other areas of your business are equally important. And if
you're not tending to, like, a garden,
you know, you can, the weeds can overrun everything else that you're trying to
do. And that's the importance of being consistent in
several areas of your business. Absolutely. Yeah.
I think, you know, I've, we've said this many times, and I know people
(16:32):
say this a lot. It's like, you can't always
do your genius or what is now that I say, we say it all the
time, and I will screw it up, but you can't
work your genius on yourself. And like you said, I think that, and
I think it does come down to, like, people feeling,
oh, are people going to think I'm not good enough or I'm a bad business
(16:54):
owner or I don't have all the answers. And it's like, yeah,
actually, the smartest people know when they need to get out of
the way and stop being the bottleneck. Right? Yeah. Same thing for
me. I needed to hire somebody to do what I can do so easily
for others. I need someone to help me be accountable and to
focus and to, like. Clear barriers and stuff. And, you know, that was the thing.
(17:16):
Like, I got some help with my welcome series, um, in the winter,
and I put it out, like, right before I went on a big
trip, like, and I was just like, this just needs to get done. And I
talked to somebody about it, and you know, and I just had them read
what I had done before, and they're like, your personality isn't even in here. And
I, you know, my, I have a pretty big personality. Like, most
(17:38):
people think I'm taller than I am. And I think it's because, like, if,
if you include the personality, it's much more than five foot five,
you know? Like, it's just how it is, you know? And so
it had to be, like, I had to go through and make it
sound more like me. Well, when I led the training to my
membership last week about how to craft,
(18:00):
like, the most compelling email sequences, I told
them, which is very true, I felt like I almost had to leave my body
and write it as if it was for a client, you know? And that could
be really hard. But, like, that's kind of how it works with a lot of
us, is like, I can write copy all day long for a client. I can
write headlines. I can do all kinds of stuff. And then I sit down to
(18:21):
do my own thing, and I'm like, uh, uh, what? I don't know what I'm
supposed to do here. I haven't put two sentences together in my life,
you know, and it's really hard. And I think there are a
lot of people who feel that way. And I think that
part of it is, if you feel that way about marketing,
there are people who will teach you how to
(18:43):
do marketing in a way that makes sense to you, in a way that's sustainable.
Meaning you're not going to burn yourself out and you're not going to feel like
you have to do all the things. And I think that is what is
one of the most important gems you could find is for some of
these areas of your business that, you know, you need support, is
like, find somebody who can make it manageable
(19:05):
so that everything is in balance.
Absolutely. It's so funny because
I just realized I have not seen you in person
since we met. I thought we had seen, we were supposed to be
together at a few events, and they got canceled during or, like, uh, they
went virtual or canceled. And I'm like, you're only five. Five.
(19:26):
Like that? I'm sorry. That's just a total aside there.
Yeah. This is why I should write down what I wanted to say, because, like,
that just, I was like, my brain's like, no, you're late.
Yeah, I went and got photos a couple weeks ago,
and my friend Nick, they were like, I
always thought you were taller. I'm like, because they're walking and they're walking really
(19:49):
fast. And I'm like, hey, hey, short legs back here. And they're
like, what? And I'm like, you know, and they're from New
York, and so they walk really fast anyway. And I'm like, I'm only five
foot five. And they said the same thing, like, oh, you seem
so much taller. I'm like, you do? That's just my personality. Don't worry about it.
100%. Well, so going
(20:11):
back to actually the pertinent stuff, even though that was just, I'm sorry I could
not go there, be pregnant, you know, like you said, when you
go to write something, I think the other piece of that is
we can show up so easily for others, and
to show up for ourselves is much, much harder. And I know,
like, I'm guessing you had the same experience. It's like when you go to do
(20:34):
it for yourself, it's like my brain just feels, like, kind of
overwhelmed, and it feels like it short circuits sometimes. Like, I can't. It's not
even possible. And so, yeah, that's why. That's what I mean when I was
like, I never put two sentences together. Like, it's like
you kind of forget. And it's also, you know, and you can speak to this
way more than I can. Like, it's all of that emotional stuff that comes
(20:56):
in, I think. I mean, experientially in working with
clients and working with myself, it's. It's kind of like when
you go to, like, like, I remember when I hired movers to
move us and they had professional packers come in and they packed our whole house
in like 2 hours and we were gone. But if you've ever gone to move
your own stuff, like, don't you go through everything and you have all these
(21:18):
memories and you do all of, you know, and it takes a long time, right?
And it's the same thing when you go to do your own marketing or when
you are tending to your business. You go through the Rolodex of all the things
you remember and, oh, this was really hard once, or this is how I did
it once. And all that stuff can really weigh you down. Sometimes
you just need to be like, and, like, pretend you're a professional mover or a
(21:38):
professional marketer, you know, and just clear it out. But it can be a really
big challenge. It can be difficult. And I think that
that's one of the reasons working with people or being a member of a
group can really help you navigate that. You feel less alone and you also
feel like you have the support to, like, move through some of
that. Yeah, cut through the noise. So let's
(22:00):
talk about some options people have. So
we know we want it to be sustainable. We know we have to.
I think we know we have to
make it for ourselves. Whatever our capacity
is, whatever our bandwidth is. Being thoughtful
that if you don't have a team, you're wearing multiple hats.
(22:22):
And I find, again, working with so many people that it's like,
but I'm supposed to do this much so it feels like
a failure again. So that's the all or nothing. But what, where
would you say to start for people if they're like, okay,
I only have, you know, this much capacity. What
should I do to really, what is the best bang for my buck
(22:45):
marketing wise? Yeah, I would say whatever you think your capacity
is most of the time, cut that by half,
if I'm honest. Like, that's one of
the places where I get a lot of pushback. Like, and we
do quarterly marketing strategy planning in my
membership, and then I do it also, of course, with individual
(23:08):
clients. And I get a lot of pushback because people are like, well, I have
this business goal and this business goal and this business goal. I'm like, you don't
have bandwidth for that. What's the number one goal? And we just
try to clear it, you know, because people oftentimes
take on too much and it's rare. I mean, there are some people who,
you don't ever give the cut 50% because,
(23:30):
like, there are some people who, like, don't want to do any marketing
or don't, don't push themselves hard enough. So I want to honor that.
That's a reality for some people. But many people
who own small businesses and they have growth goals and they have
their, they do tend to be a little driven and want to,
like, really push themselves. And they tend to, especially women
(23:53):
who, which is who I work with, women and femme people,
they're pushing themselves really hard and they want to do all of the things
immediately. And it's really hard to focus on too much stuff. At
the same time, if you don't have a team and you don't have a big
budget and you don't have piles of support, you
have to really be clear about your priorities and what
(24:16):
are your top priorities. And then after that, it's
like, once you know your priorities, then, then the marketing stuff comes
in a lot. That's one of the problems a lot of people have anyway, is
they put marketing in the wrong order of everything else.
Like if you don't, if you're not clear about where your business is going or
what it is that you want to do, like, it's, it's not
(24:37):
time, you know, that's why, like, when I teach marketing
foundations, you know, social media is not the first thing you should
do. Why start talking to people when you don't know
your messaging? Why start putting stuff out there when it could
be like the wrong. Wrong, quote unquote wrong thing or
not really what you're about just because it's the easiest way.
(24:59):
Some people think social media is so easy,
and it's not really like, you know, it's much easier when
you know who your customers are, what your key points are, and what
you're promoting, what's most important. Yeah, and I'm sure
you find this, because I've had this with quite a few
clients, too, where they're talking about social media,
(25:21):
or I'm going to hire somebody, I'm going to outsource social media like you
did. And then I'm
like, well, why? They have zero
strategy around the social media and their
website's not like they should spend time on their
website. I'm going to say it in a nice way. I'm like, you, where you
(25:42):
send people, it's kind of like doing ads. You know, when I talk to people
doing, like, Google Ads, I'm like, if you send it to a crappy site,
it's not going to help you. You just have to. You're paying more for
eyeballs and it's not going to convert. Right. I feel
like the foundation is your website. I don't know if you agree with that
or. Yeah, I mean, it's part of it. I mean,
(26:05):
that said, I do know people. I worked with a client
who had been in business since 1991. This was during the
pandemic, and they had their first website
ever that wasn't just a landing page. It is very
unusual, though. And actually when I brought the designer on,
they were like, is this guy for real? Like, there's no website here and they
(26:26):
say they've been in business forever. So, like, even somebody like that, like,
there are still people who are going to. Because it's your landing spot, you know,
that said, I do think that you need some, and it's the techie part. You
do need some tech tools in place to kind of help you manage
things before the website. But yeah, the website's one of the first things. I mean,
you need a place that you own that's not owned by a big tech
(26:49):
company like Facebook or LinkedIn or
Google. Like, you need a spot that you own where you control the messaging
and that you're able to, that you own fully
and can edit so that you're able to, like, adjust the messaging as
you, as you go and can really
test what works. And that's the thing that's one of my
(27:11):
claim to fame. It got me in a documentary, which I think is finally going
to be released at the end of the year, is that I wrote this blistering
blog post about clickfunnels because it's like dollar
200 a month, and they're marketing to brand new business owners
who don't even need a sales page, let alone like, a
funnel. And the whole point I made in the documentary
(27:33):
is all that a sales funnel is, is your sales process moved
online. And it doesn't have to be like, something really
complicated, but it has to be something so that you send
somebody someplace that makes sense. And that's the problem with,
like, social media first, is that if you don't have a place
to send them, like you said, it doesn't make any sense. Ads, you
(27:55):
know, you have to have a place where the messaging is clear
and you don't need clickfunnels for that. You just don't, you
know, where were you in? Like, let's see, it was how
many years ago when I paid $1,000 for clickfunnels? I mean, it was a long
time ago. And yes, did not use it once because I was not
ready for it. Right. I mean, you know, now you would
(28:17):
be more ready for it, but you've since developed, like, a whole suite
of tools, you know? But really, clickfunnels is good if you have a team, you
know, now everybody's talking about go high level. It's
not as sleazy as clickfunnels in terms of their sales
tactics, but the product itself is not
built for the typical small business owner. And now what you're seeing
(28:41):
is the same thing, similar to Clickfunnels, where everybody's trying to
do their resell, affiliate licensing,
and it's really making everything, it's really making everything
very cloudy and very difficult for people to know what they actually
need when go high level. Go high level is great for people like
me. If you're running, like a marketing agency
(29:03):
of some kind, it works really well for that.
But it's not a typical business owner tool.
And it's being sold that way. And that's what makes marketing so confusing for people
is everybody's hearing now well, I have to jump
on that tool. No, you don't. You need to have
a solid, a solid platform where you're communicating your
(29:26):
offers clearly with a clear call to action.
That's either to schedule an appointment with you or buy
the product. And that's it
exactly. I was like, and that goes back to
why that there's so many times when I'm on a coaching call with someone and
I'm like, well, why are you doing that? My two things I say a lot
(29:48):
are, what's your rush
and why are you doing that? Not again, in a very
loving, caring way of like, I want to understand why you're doing
something, but there are so many times where it's like, but
why? And they're like, because I, because I saw something or I
attended a summit or whatever, and I'm like, okay, so let's,
(30:10):
let's again go back to foundation. My side note is, this
is my soapbox. Yes, you can have a business without a website and
make money, but like Jen said, that is so,
like, rare. And I know there for every time you say
this, people come out and they're like, oh, you don't need to. I have, you
know, I make 100,000 a year and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like,
(30:32):
well, for the most part, no. And I'm just going to tell you, they don't
have consistency. Although I've come to think, like, many of them are
just outright lying. But, yeah, I mean,
this client, Sunil, is really successful,
but it's very rare, you know, and I look at some of
the stuff that they were putting out before, and I was like,
(30:56):
you know, but it worked. It worked for them and, but the reason it
worked, it works and worked for them is because they have a great deal of
charisma and they spend a lot of time getting to know people
through networking. Like, that's their whole jam, is networking. So, like,
they've already made that personal connection. So
if you're sending someone to a landing page, they've already got the know like and
(31:18):
trust factor that many of my clients
don't have when they first come to me. You know, a lot of times we
make these assumptions that people will leap from a platform like social media
straight to buying, when really it's a
dance, it's a conversation that takes a little bit longer than that, and that's
where the consistency piece really comes in. What are we trying to do and why?
(31:41):
What's the timeline? Because depending on the timeline, that's where things
like paid ads come into play sometimes a
little bit ahead of maybe where you're ready for it.
But, yeah, I mean, there is an order. A
lot of the work that I've done here with Prosper, Portland's
inclusive business resource network, it's a government contract I've had now
(32:03):
for five or six years. A lot of that work
is about that order of operations that we go through with clients
about. Here's how marketing works. Here's the
order in which you need to, you know, develop and adopt
certain things if you're going to be successful. And it really clarifies things
for a lot of people, and it makes it a lot easier because the thing
(32:25):
of it is, like, even though marketing has changed a ton over the last six
years, fundamentally how you plan a
strategy has not. The tactics for how you get there have
changed. Now, we use AI for some things, and it didn't really
exist six years ago,
but the idea of how you craft a
(32:46):
strategy and how you need to be consistent
and sustainable within the bounds of how
much money you have, how many people you have, none of that has
changed. It's all the same.
And everybody says that I'm some beginner marketer. I'm not.
But I talk about things in a way that's so approachable. People
(33:08):
think that I'm just a beginner marketer. And it's like, no, I
think that you need to understand it so, you know, the decisions that you're making
and the impacts that it has. And I don't need to talk above people's
heads because I don't. My whole point is I want people to not be
overwhelmed or lost. And if your marketer makes you feel
like that, get somebody else, because it doesn't have to be that way.
(33:30):
Yeah. And actually, I know we had this discussion before because I had
a client who had a bad experience with their web
developer, and I find the people who are talking
over your heads actually know less. And that, that's where, like, the
more time I spent with you, I was like, oh, damn, you know, some stuff,
like, you are really good at this. And, and it
(33:53):
was like, yeah, if you, you can communicate things in such
a clear, straightforward way. And, like,
people want to be wooed with big terminology, but usually those
people have no clue what they're doing.
Yeah, a lot of them don't, or they don't, or they know what worked for
them. And that's really the one of the other things before you go hire
(34:15):
a marketer is like, can I talk to your clients? Is there, do you have
a case study. Do you have, like, you know, because you, you
want to know, like. Cause somebody can sound really smart, but if they've
never done it. And a lot of us stay, like, in our own lane. Like,
there are certain services that I can make advising, but I
would never implement it for somebody. Like, I can tell, like, for example, I can
(34:37):
be like, you should do Pinterest ads. I don't do
Pinterest ads. You know, like, I mean, but I know it
when I see it, you know, like, I know when, when something is a good
idea and I can advise it, but I'm not going to be the person to,
to push all the buttons, you know, and, and that's the thing to look out
for too, are people who say they can do everything. Like,
(34:59):
it's, it's such a big discipline, marketing,
that it's not, um, there's no one expert for
everything. 100%. Yeah. So if we're
thinking about the person is
like, the business owner is saying, okay, I need to create a
marketing plan and I need it to be
(35:21):
sustainable. And they feasibly have a
website. And I'm sure then you would also say, like, does the website do
its job? Does it have good SEO? Like, let's presume
they presume it does. Let's presume they took your master class, which,
by the way, is recorded. So if you join the inner circle, you
can have it. Oh my gosh. Let's say they did your master
(35:44):
classes and they have
really nailed their customer. Like, speaking to
their customer and their SEO, what would be the next thing you would recommend?
And I know that's hard given that it's not a real, like, I don't have,
you can't ask them, what is your goal? Probably, but what would you say is
the next step? I mean, after a solid website, and
(36:06):
they usually run in tandem, is email marketing.
On average, for every dollar you put into email marketing, small
business owner gets $40 back
and people say, oh, emails dead, blah, blah, blah.
It's not. If you run a
product based business or you're going direct to consumer, meaning
(36:29):
your clients aren't other businesses, then you really need email
marketing plus sms or text messages.
Because like Apple and Google, there have been all these privacy
constraints that have made it harder to get into inboxes. If people
have an Apple email or Gmail account
versus a Google workspace or office
(36:51):
365 email, that
said, if they subscribe, which is the
only way to do email marketing, they do want to hear from you,
so why not email them? They're a captive
audience. They've likely bought from you or they're interested in
you. Message them, and you're still going to get more
(37:13):
returns on that than you would if you did social media.
And then don't forget to use social media to build your list.
Like, I did it. I did a test one month. I do tests all the
time to back up what I'm saying. So then I
can tell clients, like, I did a
tester, it's
(37:35):
data. Yeah, it's just data, you know? And I'm like, yeah, that's
what the stats say. But then I did a test on my own
social media. And boy, I'll tell you, if once a week you say, subscribe to
my email, guess what people do? They subscribe to your email
list. You know, and then, so it would be like, have a
good website, have a solid SEO, make sure you're communicating with your
(37:57):
customers, and then back that up with
email marketing. And most of the time, if you're not emailing people at
all, then it's like, okay, well, can we agree to, like,
monthly? Like, can we just, can we just start there, you
know, and then can we build up from there? Because people get really
concerned about emailing too much. But most of the time, I find
(38:19):
people don't email often enough. 100%. Yeah,
I know we feel like we're bothering people, but
if people want to hear from you, I have people who email all the time
and I never unsubscribe because I do want to see some of their stuff. I
just, sometimes I'm like, oh, my God, that's too much. You know, but, but I
just deleted or whatever. Well, let's face it, I don't delete it because I just
(38:42):
scroll down, keep going above the folds.
But I would ask how many emails you have, but
it would probably give me heart palpitations. Would give you heart palpitations?
But, yeah, like, people that would subscribe with people they want to hear
from. Absolutely. 100%. I'd also say that
having your Google Business profile is really important. And then
(39:05):
claiming all of your social media profiles and picking one
or two, like, you don't have to be present everywhere.
That's one of the places where people really overwhelm themselves is they feel like they
need to do a full omni channel approach to
social media, which is like, I have to be everywhere all at once. And like
most small businesses don't have the energy or the
(39:27):
staffing to be good at all of it. So you need to pick and choose
and there are all kinds of places where you can research, you
know, where your people are. I suggest, you know,
polling your actual customers, too, to
find the best spot. That's great. Yeah. And like you
said, make sure, though, you actually take
(39:50):
the real estate. I can't think of the word. What's the
word? When you take, like, if I go on Instagram and I claim
it. Yeah, there's. There's a word that's, like, on the tip of my
tongue, stupid agnosia. But, like, I claimed
all of it. Like, I have my twitters for, like, the different businesses
I've started. I've claimed them. I never use Twitter. It's
(40:11):
too overwhelming. I mean, x or whatever, but, you know,
it's, like, too overwhelming. But I want to make sure that somebody else can't take
it. Absolutely. Yeah. I can't even get
into my ex for women conquer biz. It's
there. I think that at one point, it had two factor on it, and
then after Elon Musk bought it, now you can't do two
(40:33):
factor unless you pay for it. And I'm like, interesting. I'm not even sure if
I can remember the password to set up two. You know, like, it's kind of
like, I'm not going to pay for it just so I can figure out the
password. That's hilarious.
We were about out of time. But remind me to tell you the story about
how I reported myself to Twitter. That sounds
(40:55):
like a great story. It's so bad. Back when it was still
Twitter. But, yeah, I'm like, oh, it took me a
couple days. I figured it out. I was like, oh, I just reported
myself. Oh, my gosh. Anyway,
yeah, I feel like this.
I like that we're having this conversation about sustainability, because I do think it's
(41:17):
important, because it is that all or nothing of, like, it's too
much. I can't deal with it. So I just want to bury my head in
the sand and not deal with it. But as we see,
as business has been shifting more and more, we need to have
consistency in our marketing and our sales processes
to ensure viability as a business. Yeah,
(41:38):
well, I have a phrase up here I keep meaning to write a blog post
about it, and it says, you don't have to do
anything. Meaning, if you don't want to do video, you don't have to do
video. You don't have to do anything, but you have to do
something. I love that.
All right, I'm going to, you know, as your accountability coach, I'm going to make
(42:00):
sure that that's done in the next. I'm just kidding. I'm joking.
I know. I should do it. You should. That's the thing about
marketing. You don't have to do anything, but you have to do
something. I love that. Well, that is the perfect note to
end on. Thank you so much, Jen. And
I think every month Jen is teaching
(42:22):
marketing training and is available for Q and a coaching,
general coaching around marketing. And next
month I'm pretty sure we're going to focus on something email based.
I don't know. We still have. Our meeting
isn't until the fifth. Okay. Yeah,
so we'll figure that out. But I'm just letting you guys know,
(42:44):
you can get a little taste or you can head on over to Jen's membership
where she does this all the time. That's right.
Remember, with the right strategy and plan, you can grow your
business without overworking. You don't have to do it alone either.
You can join other ambitious business owners this Friday for quarterly
goal planning. So grab your spot now and don't delay.
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