May 14, 2024 • 33 mins
In today’s special episode of The Game Changers podcast, we talk to two trailblazing women from Man City Women – Esme Morgan and Charlotte O’Neill.
Lioness Esme Morgan was a lifelong City fan who joined the club at under 15 level and quickly progressed through the regional talent squad into the Man City Women’s first team.
She’s featured throughout all youth levels of the England national team set-up having first been called up to the under-17 England team in 2017. Esme won her first England senior cap in October 2022 and was included in the FIFA Women's World Cup squad in 2023.
Charlotte O’Neill, Managing Director of Man City Women, is a former England and Super League netballer who held key positions at British Swimming, the Olympic Games in Beijing and London, and the Rugby World Cup before joining Manchester City in 2015.
As Director of Operations and Development, Charlotte oversaw strategic direction and delivery at Man City’s Boys’ Academy and was appointed Managing Director of Man City Women in December 2023.
The Man City Women’s story combines success on the pitch with continued progression off the field, as the club continues to break new boundaries, playing a significant role in the growth of the women’s game.
It was fascinating to hear from these two incredible women as they openly shared their career stories and experiences at Man City as the club celebrates its 10th professional season in the WSL.
A big thank you to Nissan, a long-term partner of Man City Women across the past decade, for sponsoring this special episode.
Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.
Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers
Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media
A Fearless Women production
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sue Anstiss (00:05):
Hello and welcome to the Game Changers.
I'm Sue Anstiss, and this isthe podcast where you'll hear
from trailblazing women in sportwho are knocking down barriers
and challenging the status quofor women and girls everywhere.
Before we start, a big thankyou to Nissan for sponsoring
this episode with guests fromManchester City Women.
Nissan's been a long-termpartner of man City Women across
(00:27):
the past decade in the WSL.
Man City Women are currentlyplaying their 10th season as a
fully professional team, havingofficially relaunched in January
2014.
Their story combines success onthe pitch with continued
progression off the field.
Having won the Continental Cupin their first campaign, City's
(00:51):
gone on to win eight domestictrophies.
These achievements have alsoleft a significant mark on the
international front, with 12members of England's
Euro-winning squad being Cityplayers.
The club is constantly lookingto break new boundaries off the
field and has played asignificant role in growing the
women's game.
Today, I'm speaking to twogame-changers from Man City on
(01:15):
and off the pitch.
Former England and Super Leaguenetballer, Charlotte O'Neill has
held positions at BritishSwimming, the Olympic Games in
Beijing and London and the RugbyWorld Cup before she joined
Manchester City Football Club in2015.
As Director of Operations andDevelopment, Charlotte oversaw
strategic direction and deliveryat Man City's Boys Academy and
(01:37):
was appointed Managing Directorof Manchester City Women in
December 2023.
Esme Wogan was a lifelong Cityfan who joined the club at
under-15s level and quicklyprogressed through the regional
talent squad into the Man Cityfirst team.
She is a Lioness who hasfeatured throughout all youth
levels of the England nationalset-up since she was first
(02:00):
called up to the under-17 teamin 2017.
Esme won her first Englandsenior cap in October 2022 and
was included in the FIFA Women'sWorld Cup squad in 2023.
A huge welcome to you both andI know our conversation will
move on to consider both of yourroles at Man City today, but
(02:22):
I'm really keen to understandyour journeys into sport and I
wonder, Charlotte, can I startwith you?
I'd love to know how sport wasa part of your life growing up.
Charlotte O'Neill (02:32):
Yeah, thanks, sue.
So we are a really, reallysporty family.
My dad was a boxer, my mum, sheswam, she horse rode, she did
all different sports ,my sisternetball, I played netball, horse
rode.
My brother played football, didkarate, boxing, you name it, I
think.
For a number of years my mumand dad were just taxi drivers,
really ferrying us between thevarious different clubs.
(02:54):
But sport's always been a hugepart of my life and I feel super
lucky to have been able to takethat into from a hobby into my
career and make all thoseamazing friendships that you do
along the way and have thosegreat experiences.
So, yeah, really, really lucky.
Sue Anstiss (03:11):
And how was it?
It's interesting my dad was aboxer and my mum swam as well
too, so it's got similaritiesthere.
But how was it that you came tonetball?
How did that come to be thiskind of sport that you most
focused on?
Charlotte O'Neill (03:22):
Well, as a child I was very fortunate to be
quite, I suppose, the classicsports person who did every
sport.
So I had an athleticscholarship, I did netball, I
did tennis, hockey and all thesedifferent things.
Horse riding and netball becamethe ones that I really excelled
at and, as I think most peoplewould appreciate, netball was a
(03:43):
lot cheaper than horse riding soit ended up being easier to go
down that route.
But I was one of those earlydevelopers.
I was really tall in primaryschool and then I stayed the
same height pretty muchthroughout my career.
So yes, netball was something.
I was lucky enough to go to anamazing primary school and
secondary schools who both hadreally strong netball programs
Broxbourne School inHertfordshire are known as one
(04:05):
of the best schools in thecountry for netball and that
just happened to be my localschool.
We had an amazing junior clubcalled Turn of the Third, who
again are one of the best in thecountry as junior clubs in
netball.
So I suppose, fortunate to livein an area where netball was
really big, all the oldersisters played for the netball
club and went to school andplayed for the netball team and
(04:27):
I think I just followed on andit's just such a brilliant sport
because you only need yourtrainers, it's really accessible
and you can play all year round, and then you've got the
camaraderie.
Like football, you know, teamsports will just give you so
much.
You make friends, you traveltogether, you're there on the
cold, wet nights together or thelong days at summer tournaments
(04:48):
.
And yeah, just for me, I justabsolutely loved it.
Sue Anstiss (04:52):
And obviously the pathway's changed a lot the
England pathway now today andsimilarly the Netball Super
League as well.
We've seen those progressions.
But you played for only CaptainLoughborough in the Super
League as it was then.
So how much have you seen thatchange now from, I guess, the
outside, 10 years on?
Charlotte O'Neill (05:09):
Yeah, I mean when I was playing a long time
ago, we mainly had full-timejobs and we trained around it.
So we were training in the gymat Loughborough in the mornings
and then we would do netball inthe evenings after work.
And having to take time offfrom work to travel to away
games, taking holiday, et cetera, or having work be incredibly
(05:29):
flexible to enable you to kindof train like a full-time
athlete but also having anotherjob alongside, so it was really
tough.
But you could see at that pointthat there was a change in the
perception of women's sport.
We got the Sky deal so ourgames were televised and that
was amazing.
So we weren't professional, butmore and more services were
provided to us.
(05:50):
We had physios and strength andconditioning all those things
you'd never had before.
That was all paid for.
Your travel was paid for.
You weren't having to drivearound the country yourself and
share petrol money between you.
We started to see it turn inthat corner.
Share petrol money between you,so we started to see it turn in
that corner.
And obviously when you getbroadcast, you get coverage.
Then there's more partnership,sponsorship comes in and you
(06:12):
could see that we were at thestart of something really
special For me.
My career then started to takeoff while I was playing and I
had to make those difficultdecisions to kind of focus on
one thing.
So I'm fortunately retired fromSuper League at about I think
it was 25.
But I've still got teammateswho are still playing in the
Super League, which isincredible.
(06:32):
So, yeah, I'm really proud ofwhat Neville have achieved in
those 10 years, for sure.
Sue Anstiss (06:36):
Yeah, and where it's going now as well too.
So, esme, in terms of yourentry into sport, what was your
kind of family life and anattitude to sport growing up?
Esme Morgan (06:46):
I loved it and I just played at every opportunity
.
Really, I can't ever remember aspecific time.
You know people ask all whenwas your first time when you
played football?
I can't remember.
Just as long as I can thinkback, I always have, and my dad
likes to tell the story that I'dalways throw a bit of a tantrum
if they wanted to take me on awalk somewhere, but he'd say, no
(07:07):
, it's all right, we'll take thefootball, and then I'd be off.
So they'd just kick the ball infront of me, I'd toddle up
after it and, just like a dogreally I suppose, just kept
playing fetch with the ball.
But I just always played sportin summer holidays and stuff.
Obviously, mum and dad would beworking throughout the whole
time.
So me and my little brotherjust went to sports camps every
(07:28):
day and and played different,different things throughout.
So, yeah, just loved it.
And what?
Sue Anstiss (07:33):
are your memories of seeing man city play?
As a family, were you fans ofthe club?
Esme Morgan (07:39):
well, that is my first life memory.
It's my first ever city game,um.
It was in 2003, the firstseason.
They moved into what's nowcalled the Etihad um and they
beat Bolton Wanderers 6-2 athome.
Um, and I just remember itbeing so noisy.
My mum had little cotton woolballs to put into my ears to
(07:59):
protect me from the noise,because obviously the crowd for
little three-year-old ears was abit too rowdy.
But we always, when my brothergot old enough, he started
coming and even now we've allgot season tickets together
still Me, my mum, my dad, mybrother and my uncle.
So throughout all this timewe've always sat together and
(08:20):
obviously seen a lot of successin recent years, which has been
really good fun.
Sue Anstiss (08:26):
That's fabulous, isn't it?
And as a player, how old wereyou when you realised that you
had a kind of real talent, aboveand beyond, perhaps, others
around you?
Esme Morgan (08:34):
I don't know really .
I just always played on theplayground at school with the
boys.
There were no other girls whohad any real interest in playing
football at infant school andprimary school and so I played
with the boys and the local teamon a Saturday morning, played
sometimes on a Sunday games whenwe got a little bit older, and
(08:56):
so I was just always surroundedby them and growing up.
Obviously boys are a lot morephysically developed and so it
was always quite even in termsof my level with them.
I was never one of the bestplayers on the team, but I
suppose I probably drewattention to myself being the
only girl.
But it was maybe only when I gotinto the first team at City
(09:18):
that I thought I've done quitewell here.
But I'm not really someonewho's like that.
I kind of just go on to thenext thing and take
opportunities in my stride and Idon't really stop to consider
what I've done in the past,probably something I'll do when
it's far too late to appreciateit all properly.
But yeah, that's kind of justme.
(09:39):
I kind of just get on withthings in life and don't really
put too much thought into it atthe time and what was your
journey into the academy itself.
Sue Anstiss (09:47):
So how did that come about?
Esme Morgan (09:49):
Well, as I said, I played with my local boys team
and I was with them until I was15.
And City put an advert out onthe website, which my family are
always probably keeping an eyeon, and my dad saw um, the
advert for open trials, and so Isigned up.
You had to sort of submit yourfootball experience and mine was
(10:10):
just Ecclesall Rangers localboys team, um, and then I got
accepted to the trials.
So I went in the first year.
I didn't get in and I wasabsolutely gutted, so I just
went back, played for my boysteam for another year and then
the following year I trialledand managed to get in.
So yeah, I was so excited.
Sue Anstiss (10:29):
But it made me laugh Charlotte talking about
her parents being taxi drivers,because the amount of miles my
dad racked up taking me over toManchester from Sheffield is
ridiculous and I was going toask you what it felt like then
and I guess this is for you andfor your family too when you did
eventually run out in a Cityshirt, for them to be there and
see you in a City shirt.
Esme Morgan (10:52):
Yeah, I think my mum was definitely in tears.
I was just dead giddy.
I remember we played againstYeovil away, so it was quite a
long trip for mum and dad tohave made, but obviously when I
got onto the pitch they werereally pleased about it.
I think I came on for the last10 minutes and I was just so
giddy afterwards and beaming andthey were so glad they'd they'd
(11:14):
gone down to see it andobviously every time that I've
done it since I think it means alot to me being a City fan for
my whole life, but also, as yousay, to my family, from then
going to watching the men's teamfor years and years, to
watching their own daughterplaying in the women's team, is
really special and somethingthat makes me really proud and
(11:37):
obviously, judging by your GCSEresults, you have been able to
balance sport and education, andI know we'll talk to Charlotte
a bit too in terms of thatacademy support and setup there.
Sue Anstiss (11:47):
So what has it been like to be able to manage those
both elements of your lifereally?
Esme Morgan (11:52):
Well, when I first got into City's RTC, that was
when I was doing my GCSE.
So I remember around exam timeI'd just bring flashcards and
I'd just have my dad sort ofhalf driving, half testing me on
all my flashcards to do myrevision on the way to and from
training.
And then when I got into thefirst team I actually ended up
(12:15):
moving to Manchester properlyand moved in with a host family
and City was so supportive withmy education.
I moved into the college whichis next door to the training
ground, so a couple of days aweek I'd be off training and I'd
go into college, and then therest of the time I'd just
quickly hurry my lunch downafter training and then scoot
(12:36):
round to college, sometimes comeback and do my gym later and
things like that, and theyorganized tutors when I missed
out on things to catch up andthat was while I was doing my
A-levels.
So it was quite a stressful timebecause I'm a real
perfectionist and I know that Iwas always capable of getting
good grades.
So I didn't want to sort of letmyself down and not achieve
(12:57):
that.
So I put a lot of pressure onmyself to make sure I was
revising hard and, yeah, in theend I did get all the good
grades that I wanted, so it wasworthwhile, although my head
felt like it was going toexplode a bit at the time.
Sue Anstiss (13:11):
Are you obviously now quite well established
within the England team.
So what was that pathway like?
How did that start out for you?
Esme Morgan (13:23):
I don't think I don't know whether it's changed,
but at the time you couldn'tget selected for England youth
teams while you were playinggrassroots football.
So it was only when I got intothe RTC at City that I was
actually available for Englandselection and just a couple of
months into it, really, I gotcalled up to the under 17 team
and it was quite daunting atfirst because a lot of the girls
had been in the setup and for alonger period of time and
(13:45):
they'd been around the RTC, orcentre of excellence systems, as
they were called at the time,for years and so they all knew
each other and I was kind ofthis raw, scrawny kid who'd just
come from grassroots boysfootball and I had a lot to
learn and there's so manytechnical details that I picked
up so quickly coming into theacademy system because obviously
(14:06):
the caliber of coaching wasjust so much greater.
But I just absolutely loved itbecause I felt like I developed
so quickly coming into that cityacademy environment and then
into the England youth teams andwhat I loved about it was just
and say how quickly I progressedand meeting new people so many
of the girls I've not playedwith since, some of the youth
(14:27):
age groups.
But then when we see each otherat WSL games and catch up, it's
just so special and I supposethat's what I love most about
football is just the friends youmake and the connections you
have with people, and beingaround all those different teams
expanded those opportunities somuch.
Sue Anstiss (14:44):
And Charlotte.
I am interested, I guess, froma netball perspective and not
having had that opportunity thatwe now see in football.
How do you feel?
You obviously feel joy for thefootballers that have that now,
but is there an element offrustration of what might have
been if we'd have had that innetball when you were playing?
Do you think you would havecontinued on that pathway?
Charlotte O'Neill (15:03):
I mean, I don't know, but I think for me
it's always about lookingforward, to looking, you know,
to the future and what we canachieve.
So for me, you know, I thinknetball has made great strides,
as has women's football.
I think we are at the base ofthe mountain.
There's more to climb, but Ifeel like we've got all the
resources to do it.
The wind is blowing in theright direction and, without
(15:25):
talking to too many careershabbies, but I'm really
positive about where the netballand women's football, women's
sport in general, can go,because we've shown that with
the right resources, with theright coaches, with the
appropriate facilities, thatwomen's sport is only going to
get better and the productitself, the skill level, is
(15:47):
incredible now.
Sue Anstiss (15:48):
So, you know, like I said, I prefer to look forward
and not backwards and,obviously, as you say, through
not being on that path, you thenwent on to have this incredible
career within sport and you'vehad the most extraordinarily
broad experience of workingacross sport, with roles at
organisations like FINA, gbSwimming London 2012, rugby
World Cup in 2015.
(16:08):
So what was it that you enjoyedabout working on those really
major sports events?
Charlotte O'Neill (16:13):
Yeah, I think , if you look at what a major
sport event is, it's a load ofdiverse people with all their
different areas of expertisecoming together for one common
goal, and you are effectivelylike a family.
The hours are so long, thedeadline doesn't move, so you're
all striving for the same thing, you all want the same outcome,
(16:34):
and I think there are a lot ofindustries or organizations
where that isn't necessarily thecase.
And I think there are a lot ofindustries or organisations
where that isn't necessarily thecase.
So with major events, it'ssuper clear and you're wanting
to put on the best World Cup orthe best Olympic Games ever, and
therefore, in many respects,the diversity of the staff is
really celebrated.
The in-goers are at the doorbecause you all want the same
thing.
I think it's probably theclosest thing I could get
(16:56):
playing sport, because it's allthat.
It's the teamwork, it's theteamwork, it's coronary, it's
being with each other when timesare tough, when you're tired
getting to know how each otherresponds, when you're tired
getting to know how you get thebest out of each other, and so
that was, for me, a fantastictransition outside of playing
sport.
It gave me a lot of the samethings, I suppose.
Sue Anstiss (17:21):
And what was it then that brought you to
football and to Manchester City?
Because that is a bit of ashift from those big major
events, isn't it?
Charlotte O'Neill (17:25):
Yeah, I think , from a role point of view, two
things.
One is the sad part aboutworking on major events is you
establish and grow this amazingteam.
You all get to know each other.
You deliver somethingincredible together and then the
whole thing finishing this.
And then you all have to knoweach other.
You deliver somethingincredible together and then the
whole thing finishing this andthen you all have to go and find
new jobs and you all wavegoodbye and people disperse
across the globe.
So that's like the sad bit.
(17:45):
And when you've done that a fewtimes you see, oh, that's such
a shame, because it's likehaving a team that wins the
league and then the next seasonthe team's disbanded.
You know you want the chance todo the repeat and to go again
and to build.
So I really wanted to work onsomething where the work that we
did would only build and buildand build to play for something
(18:06):
great.
So the role really appealed tome at City.
And then the other thing wasthe specific role Director of
Operations and Development atBoyd's Academy.
You know the way I saw it.
It was helping young peopleachieve their dreams and doing
that every single day talentedyoung footballers, young people
and helping them fulfill theirsporting ambitions and dreams
(18:27):
and also helping them becomebetter people.
And Esme mentioned about herGCSE results and her A-level
results.
So we used to use Esme at theBoys Academy as proof that it
was possible to, if you'd lookinto it, that you could achieve
academic excellence, and that'ssomething that I'm so proud of.
In the eight years I was in theBoys Academy, our academic
(18:50):
results are outstanding, andthat's because we've raised
expectation of what was possibleand, rather than kind of going
down the route of, oh well, you,you know, something has to give
, it is possible to do both, andthe skills that, like Esme
talked about, like you know,being dedicated, being organized
and you know, and coping withthe pressure, are all things.
(19:11):
I think if you get those, um,if you get that under your belt,
when you then are fullyprofessional, they will really
stand you in good stead for therest of your career.
Sue Anstiss (19:21):
And it's obviously been hugely successful.
The man City Boys Academy.
Are there learnings from thatside that you'd like to see
coming into the Women's Academytoo, I guess, and vice versa?
Charlotte O'Neill (19:31):
Yeah, I think in any elite environment
there's always stuff that youlearn and you can translate
across.
So in our Boys Academy academy,historically, we've had more
resource, and that's somethingthat, then, I'm really keen to
do on the girls' side to ensurethat our girls can train the
amount of sessions they need tofor the length, with the quality
of pitches, with the quality ofcoaches.
They're all things that ouracademy are now shifting with
(19:52):
the leadership of Carol Bardsley, which is amazing.
But then there's also some ofthe core things I learned
weren't necessarily about sport,and we have this big mantra in
our boys' academy which isbetter people make better man
city players, and that'ssomething that I really believe
in and that we will do the samein the women's is that if you're
lazy in the classroom or youhave poor standards and you're
(20:13):
rude and you're disrespectful,then it doesn't mean that when
you then move over to our men'sfirst team, you're all of a
sudden going to be anoutstanding professional.
So all the things that weworked on, I think, are now
bearing fruit, and it's sorefreshing to hear Pep talk
glowingly about our boys'academy graduates and how
professional they are, how keenthey are to learn, how
(20:34):
determined they are and how hardthey work, and they're all the
things that I think will, willand do translate over into our
girls' academy.
Sue Anstiss (20:42):
And we're obviously celebrating 10 years of man
City in the WSL this year, so Iam fascinated to understand more
about the changes that you'veboth seen with the women's side
across that time.
So, esme, you've obviouslyexperienced it firsthand as a
player.
I think you joined was it 2014?
You joined as a under 15.
It's a full decade really, butwhat changes have you seen at
(21:03):
the club in that time?
Esme Morgan (21:05):
Yeah, I think this is my night year being sort of
involved in the club since Icame into the academy.
I think I joined the year afterthe inaugural season of man
City Women and I suppose one ofthe most obvious changes to me
having been the number of peoplecoming to watch every game.
I think when they started I wasjust a fan.
(21:26):
I used to come and watch as asupporter with with my family,
and it was over at the regionalathletics arena at first and I
think they got maybe severalhundred people, whereas now
we're consistently getting a fewthousand and obviously going to
games at the Etihad and getting30-40,000 people coming to
watch, which is amazing.
(21:46):
And the other thing, I think,is the standard of player and
the standard of, as Charlottesaid, the product that's being
put out there.
I think every single year itimproves.
We've got young girls now cominginto the team who've had female
role models, who've known it'sa possibility to have a career
in women's football, which we Imean myself, I didn't really
(22:07):
until I actually had it.
I always tell Steph she was thefirst women's footballer I'd
ever heard of.
I first watched her at theLondon 2012 Olympics and that
was my first awareness ofwomen's football at 12 years old
, and now there's girls comingthrough who've been watching it
and inspired by it since theywere three, four, five, and so I
think the standard over thenext few years is only going to
(22:30):
keep improving because thecoaching as well, further down
the pyramid, is so much strongerand so there's so much talent
coming through that the productis only going to get better, and
I think that is something thathas developed hugely in terms of
the pace of the game, thephysicality and the technical
ability of players involved.
(22:50):
If you speak to people likeSteph and Demi, who've been
there the whole time, they'lltell you that themselves.
So, yeah, I think the product'sjust really grown.
Sue Anstiss (23:00):
And Charlotte, obviously you were appointed
Managing Director of man CityWomen last year, so huge
congratulations on that.
I wonder if you can share alittle bit of the day-to-day
activities.
What does that role entail?
Such a prestigious role for theclub?
I know that's a huge ask, isn'tit?
But really, what does that roleentail?
Charlotte O'Neill (23:17):
It's very varied.
So at the moment, the keypriorities are, obviously, we're
on a title race, which is ahuge privilege to be part of, so
doing whatever we can tosupport the team.
I met with Esme and herteammates last week to say, look
, if there's anything you needor whatever we need to do, we're
going to do it.
You know we want to give themevery opportunity to win the
(23:39):
title and it's a privilege to bein that position.
You know there are teams atthis stage who you know the
season has kind of unfolded andthere's not much to play for.
So, yeah, we've got a title race, planning for our tour,
pre-season tours, warm weather,training camps, working on the
new training centre.
We'll just have planningpermission approved, which is
(24:00):
incredible Everything frombuilding the squad for the new
season, supporting our staff,helping everyone get better.
So I would say that's what Ilearned about the job.
It's so varied but ultimately,the single goal is we want to be
the best women's club in theworld and in order to do that,
we have to be the best ateverything.
And it's working with all mycolleagues within the women's
(24:23):
program, with Esme, the team,the coach, captains, et cetera.
Sue Anstiss (24:28):
Anyone that is involved in our program is about
aspiring to be the best andthen working every day to
improve what we do and obviouslyyou mentioned the kind of
planning permission anddevelopments there, but can you
tell us a bit more about thewomen's home stadiums, the joy
stadium, and and why that feelslike from the outside?
It's been such an essentialpart of the club's development?
Charlotte O'Neill (24:47):
yeah, I think it think it's amazing.
Having your own stadiumobviously brings with it so many
benefits.
It's not just on the commercialside, with food, beverage and
controlling the product that youput out there, but also being
able to bring in fantasticpartners, so Joy, who are the
naming rights partner for ourstadium.
They're not a sponsor, they'rea true partner.
(25:10):
They're working with us on, forexample, example, our buggy and
pram store.
They're working with us on thebreastfeeding areas and all
those things that make ourstadium family friendly.
So having your own stadiummeans that you can move quicker
in terms of making it muchbetter environment for everyone
to come and attend, and so it.
It's a huge advantage for usbecause I've just been in a
(25:33):
meeting earlier today about ourfan experience and we've got
independent experts helping usto improve that.
Having your own stadium, itfeels more like home.
I think Esme would agree.
They're in those change roomsall the time.
They're familiar with the pitch, you're not holding to anybody
else, you've got flexibility onthe scheduling, but you know,
(25:56):
most importantly, our fans andour supporters.
We can make sure that every daywe're working to ensure that
they have the best possibleexperience.
So, yeah, we're extremely luckyand grateful to have that
facility.
We're extremely lucky andgrateful to have that facility.
Sue Anstiss (26:08):
I was going to ask you then, Esme, in terms of you
as a player and the team, whatthat means to have that facility
.
Esme Morgan (26:15):
Yeah, we love it.
I think right now it's theperfect size, because when
there's full stands at the Joyand it's a good game and the
crowd are getting behind us, thenoise is incredible and you
might look at it and think, ohwell, it's only 7,000 people,
but it can get loud and itreally lifts the team.
(26:37):
When everyone's sort of gettingbehind us and we really enjoy
playing there Like Charlottesaid, it being our own place and
not sharing it with the men'steam as a lot of WSL clubs do,
it also just means the qualityof the pitch is is great, which,
as a player, is something wereally value.
That's probably why we've hadso much success in terms of our
results at home over the years.
(26:59):
First and foremost, because wehave the support of our crowd
and it's an amazing atmospherefor us to play in, but also the
quality of the facilities thereare the best in the league
really, so we're very, verylucky and you can hear.
Sue Anstiss (27:12):
Can't you obviously see that that manson has been
such a huge trailblazer forwomen's football in the uk and
and globally, and I suppose it'snow good news.
It is good news that we'reseeing other clubs upping their
game too.
So I just wondered, charlotte,do you see a future where the
women's game will ever be on apar with men's in terms of the
visibility and crowd sizes andbroadcast rights, sponsorship,
(27:34):
etc.
Either at man City but morebroadly across the UK?
Charlotte O'Neill (27:39):
Yeah, I don't see why not.
We've made great strides.
We are starting further behind.
I suppose it's the right way toput it.
There's no reason why we can'tcatch up.
And I think what's great is weare celebrating our game, our
women's game, and it's so right.
And our supporters club, forexample, our man City Women's
(27:59):
Supporters Club.
They have men's and women'sseason tickets.
They watch both teams and theyenjoy both games equally.
So of course, we have hugeaspirations for where women's
football can go and man City wewant to be leading the charge,
so super excited.
Sue Anstiss (28:17):
It is exciting and, I guess, looking forward to the
future of women's football.
How do you see, without givingeverything away, but how do you
see man City continuing to movethe game forward and be a
trailblazing club, as you havebeen?
Charlotte O'Neill (28:29):
Yeah, I think you know, as I said earlier, we
want to be the best ineverything we do.
So we have to make sure that,from a football technical point
of view, our programme is youknow is world class.
We have to make sure that weare recruiting and retaining the
best players.
But, you know, a huge part ofthat is our girls' academy and
our pathway, and I would say,like say, we are putting a
(28:50):
really significant focus on ourgirls' pathway.
Esway is a prime example ofwhat having an excellent academy
does for you.
You're putting slynesses sothey don't come along every week
, but I think it would be fairto say that our investment in
our academy investing not justresources but our expertise in
(29:10):
our girls' academy means that wewant to consistently produce a
pipeline of first-team playersfrom our academy, whilst we
would always be out in themarket looking for the world's
best.
That's outside of our programme.
But yeah, absolutely that's ahuge focus for us.
But ultimately we want to bethe best in everything we do.
Sue Anstiss (29:28):
And Esme, I guess finishing there in terms of that
, creating lionesses.
It's obviously been anextraordinary few years for the
lionesses, with the Euros winand the World Cup etc.
Last summer.
So how excited are you for theimpact that success is having
more broadly, so bringing girlsin to football, but also more
widely in society and acrosswomen's sport?
Esme Morgan (29:49):
Yeah, I think it's really special the number of
people now who recognise theLionesses, and I think it's such
a huge brand.
Being a Lioness is a reallyprestigious thing and I think
that's really recognised now.
And obviously it's amazingseeing the respect that those
girls got for women's footballwhen they were the Euros.
(30:10):
But also, I think women insociety can benefit in general
from women being successful andbe shown to receive respect.
It can spread throughout and Ithink that's really important
and just young girls and boysbeing able to see people from
their nation or people fromtheir favourite team being
(30:30):
successful.
I think it's inspiring and,like I say, having role models
to look up to is really powerfuland being able to follow your
passion and follow your dreamsand try to achieve what those
who've gone before you have done, I think is something that, as
a young person, is reallyspecial and, yeah, it's really
just useful having people to beable to look up to, who've been
(30:52):
successful, who were once inyour shoes Absolutely.
Sue Anstiss (30:56):
Well, fantastic.
Thank you so much to both ofyou for taking the time to talk
and I kind of wish you well,esme, with your kind of playing
career and Charlotte, with allyou're doing at the club and the
growth of the club too.
So, yeah, for the next decadein the WSL.
Thank you so so much for takingthe time to talk to me.
Thank you, thanks, sue, thanksso much to Charlotte and Esme
(31:21):
for taking the time to talk tome, and thanks also to Nissan
for supporting this episode.
If you enjoyed the podcast,there are over 180 episodes
featuring conversations withwomen's sport trailblazers that
are free to listen to on allpodcast platforms or on our
website at fearlesswomencouk.
The whole of my book Game On: The Unstoppable Rise of Women's (31:42):
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At Sue Anstiss, The GameChangers.
Fearless women in sport.
Hello and welcome to the Game Changers.
I'm Sue Anstiss, and this isthe podcast where you'll hear
from trailblazing women in sportwho are knocking down barriers
and challenging the status quofor women and girls everywhere.
Before we start, a big thankyou to Nissan for sponsoring
this episode with guests fromManchester City Women.
Nissan's been a long-termpartner of man City Women across
(00:27):
the past decade in the WSL.
Man City Women are currentlyplaying their 10th season as a
fully professional team, havingofficially relaunched in January
2014.
Their story combines success onthe pitch with continued
progression off the field.
Having won the Continental Cupin their first campaign, City's
(00:51):
gone on to win eight domestictrophies.
These achievements have alsoleft a significant mark on the
international front, with 12members of England's
Euro-winning squad being Cityplayers.
The club is constantly lookingto break new boundaries off the
field and has played asignificant role in growing the
women's game.
Today, I'm speaking to twogame-changers from Man City on
(01:15):
and off the pitch.
Former England and Super Leaguenetballer, Charlotte O'Neill has
held positions at BritishSwimming, the Olympic Games in
Beijing and London and the RugbyWorld Cup before she joined
Manchester City Football Club in2015.
As Director of Operations andDevelopment, Charlotte oversaw
strategic direction and deliveryat Man City's Boys Academy and
(01:37):
was appointed Managing Directorof Manchester City Women in
December 2023.
Esme Wogan was a lifelong Cityfan who joined the club at
under-15s level and quicklyprogressed through the regional
talent squad into the Man Cityfirst team.
She is a Lioness who hasfeatured throughout all youth
levels of the England nationalset-up since she was first
(02:00):
called up to the under-17 teamin 2017.
Esme won her first Englandsenior cap in October 2022 and
was included in the FIFA Women'sWorld Cup squad in 2023.
A huge welcome to you both andI know our conversation will
move on to consider both of yourroles at Man City today, but
(02:22):
I'm really keen to understandyour journeys into sport and I
wonder, Charlotte, can I startwith you?
I'd love to know how sport wasa part of your life growing up.
Charlotte O'Neill (02:32):
Yeah, thanks, sue.
So we are a really, reallysporty family.
My dad was a boxer, my mum, sheswam, she horse rode, she did
all different sports ,my sisternetball, I played netball, horse
rode.
My brother played football, didkarate, boxing, you name it, I
think.
For a number of years my mumand dad were just taxi drivers,
really ferrying us between thevarious different clubs.
(02:54):
But sport's always been a hugepart of my life and I feel super
lucky to have been able to takethat into from a hobby into my
career and make all thoseamazing friendships that you do
along the way and have thosegreat experiences.
So, yeah, really, really lucky.
Sue Anstiss (03:11):
And how was it?
It's interesting my dad was aboxer and my mum swam as well
too, so it's got similaritiesthere.
But how was it that you came tonetball?
How did that come to be thiskind of sport that you most
focused on?
Charlotte O'Neill (03:22):
Well, as a child I was very fortunate to be
quite, I suppose, the classicsports person who did every
sport.
So I had an athleticscholarship, I did netball, I
did tennis, hockey and all thesedifferent things.
Horse riding and netball becamethe ones that I really excelled
at and, as I think most peoplewould appreciate, netball was a
(03:43):
lot cheaper than horse riding soit ended up being easier to go
down that route.
But I was one of those earlydevelopers.
I was really tall in primaryschool and then I stayed the
same height pretty muchthroughout my career.
So yes, netball was something.
I was lucky enough to go to anamazing primary school and
secondary schools who both hadreally strong netball programs
Broxbourne School inHertfordshire are known as one
(04:05):
of the best schools in thecountry for netball and that
just happened to be my localschool.
We had an amazing junior clubcalled Turn of the Third, who
again are one of the best in thecountry as junior clubs in
netball.
So I suppose, fortunate to livein an area where netball was
really big, all the oldersisters played for the netball
club and went to school andplayed for the netball team and
(04:27):
I think I just followed on andit's just such a brilliant sport
because you only need yourtrainers, it's really accessible
and you can play all year round, and then you've got the
camaraderie.
Like football, you know, teamsports will just give you so
much.
You make friends, you traveltogether, you're there on the
cold, wet nights together or thelong days at summer tournaments
(04:48):
.
And yeah, just for me, I justabsolutely loved it.
Sue Anstiss (04:52):
And obviously the pathway's changed a lot the
England pathway now today andsimilarly the Netball Super
League as well.
We've seen those progressions.
But you played for only CaptainLoughborough in the Super
League as it was then.
So how much have you seen thatchange now from, I guess, the
outside, 10 years on?
Charlotte O'Neill (05:09):
Yeah, I mean when I was playing a long time
ago, we mainly had full-timejobs and we trained around it.
So we were training in the gymat Loughborough in the mornings
and then we would do netball inthe evenings after work.
And having to take time offfrom work to travel to away
games, taking holiday, et cetera, or having work be incredibly
(05:29):
flexible to enable you to kindof train like a full-time
athlete but also having anotherjob alongside, so it was really
tough.
But you could see at that pointthat there was a change in the
perception of women's sport.
We got the Sky deal so ourgames were televised and that
was amazing.
So we weren't professional, butmore and more services were
provided to us.
(05:50):
We had physios and strength andconditioning all those things
you'd never had before.
That was all paid for.
Your travel was paid for.
You weren't having to drivearound the country yourself and
share petrol money between you.
We started to see it turn inthat corner.
Share petrol money between you,so we started to see it turn in
that corner.
And obviously when you getbroadcast, you get coverage.
Then there's more partnership,sponsorship comes in and you
(06:12):
could see that we were at thestart of something really
special For me.
My career then started to takeoff while I was playing and I
had to make those difficultdecisions to kind of focus on
one thing.
So I'm fortunately retired fromSuper League at about I think
it was 25.
But I've still got teammateswho are still playing in the
Super League, which isincredible.
(06:32):
So, yeah, I'm really proud ofwhat Neville have achieved in
those 10 years, for sure.
Sue Anstiss (06:36):
Yeah, and where it's going now as well too.
So, esme, in terms of yourentry into sport, what was your
kind of family life and anattitude to sport growing up?
Esme Morgan (06:46):
I loved it and I just played at every opportunity
.
Really, I can't ever remember aspecific time.
You know people ask all whenwas your first time when you
played football?
I can't remember.
Just as long as I can thinkback, I always have, and my dad
likes to tell the story that I'dalways throw a bit of a tantrum
if they wanted to take me on awalk somewhere, but he'd say, no
(07:07):
, it's all right, we'll take thefootball, and then I'd be off.
So they'd just kick the ball infront of me, I'd toddle up
after it and, just like a dogreally I suppose, just kept
playing fetch with the ball.
But I just always played sportin summer holidays and stuff.
Obviously, mum and dad would beworking throughout the whole
time.
So me and my little brotherjust went to sports camps every
(07:28):
day and and played different,different things throughout.
So, yeah, just loved it.
And what?
Sue Anstiss (07:33):
are your memories of seeing man city play?
As a family, were you fans ofthe club?
Esme Morgan (07:39):
well, that is my first life memory.
It's my first ever city game,um.
It was in 2003, the firstseason.
They moved into what's nowcalled the Etihad um and they
beat Bolton Wanderers 6-2 athome.
Um, and I just remember itbeing so noisy.
My mum had little cotton woolballs to put into my ears to
(07:59):
protect me from the noise,because obviously the crowd for
little three-year-old ears was abit too rowdy.
But we always, when my brothergot old enough, he started
coming and even now we've allgot season tickets together
still Me, my mum, my dad, mybrother and my uncle.
So throughout all this timewe've always sat together and
(08:20):
obviously seen a lot of successin recent years, which has been
really good fun.
Sue Anstiss (08:26):
That's fabulous, isn't it?
And as a player, how old wereyou when you realised that you
had a kind of real talent, aboveand beyond, perhaps, others
around you?
Esme Morgan (08:34):
I don't know really .
I just always played on theplayground at school with the
boys.
There were no other girls whohad any real interest in playing
football at infant school andprimary school and so I played
with the boys and the local teamon a Saturday morning, played
sometimes on a Sunday games whenwe got a little bit older, and
(08:56):
so I was just always surroundedby them and growing up.
Obviously boys are a lot morephysically developed and so it
was always quite even in termsof my level with them.
I was never one of the bestplayers on the team, but I
suppose I probably drewattention to myself being the
only girl.
But it was maybe only when I gotinto the first team at City
(09:18):
that I thought I've done quitewell here.
But I'm not really someonewho's like that.
I kind of just go on to thenext thing and take
opportunities in my stride and Idon't really stop to consider
what I've done in the past,probably something I'll do when
it's far too late to appreciateit all properly.
But yeah, that's kind of justme.
(09:39):
I kind of just get on withthings in life and don't really
put too much thought into it atthe time and what was your
journey into the academy itself.
Sue Anstiss (09:47):
So how did that come about?
Esme Morgan (09:49):
Well, as I said, I played with my local boys team
and I was with them until I was15.
And City put an advert out onthe website, which my family are
always probably keeping an eyeon, and my dad saw um, the
advert for open trials, and so Isigned up.
You had to sort of submit yourfootball experience and mine was
(10:10):
just Ecclesall Rangers localboys team, um, and then I got
accepted to the trials.
So I went in the first year.
I didn't get in and I wasabsolutely gutted, so I just
went back, played for my boysteam for another year and then
the following year I trialledand managed to get in.
So yeah, I was so excited.
Sue Anstiss (10:29):
But it made me laugh Charlotte talking about
her parents being taxi drivers,because the amount of miles my
dad racked up taking me over toManchester from Sheffield is
ridiculous and I was going toask you what it felt like then
and I guess this is for you andfor your family too when you did
eventually run out in a Cityshirt, for them to be there and
see you in a City shirt.
Esme Morgan (10:52):
Yeah, I think my mum was definitely in tears.
I was just dead giddy.
I remember we played againstYeovil away, so it was quite a
long trip for mum and dad tohave made, but obviously when I
got onto the pitch they werereally pleased about it.
I think I came on for the last10 minutes and I was just so
giddy afterwards and beaming andthey were so glad they'd they'd
(11:14):
gone down to see it andobviously every time that I've
done it since I think it means alot to me being a City fan for
my whole life, but also, as yousay, to my family, from then
going to watching the men's teamfor years and years, to
watching their own daughterplaying in the women's team, is
really special and somethingthat makes me really proud and
(11:37):
obviously, judging by your GCSEresults, you have been able to
balance sport and education, andI know we'll talk to Charlotte
a bit too in terms of thatacademy support and setup there.
Sue Anstiss (11:47):
So what has it been like to be able to manage those
both elements of your lifereally?
Esme Morgan (11:52):
Well, when I first got into City's RTC, that was
when I was doing my GCSE.
So I remember around exam timeI'd just bring flashcards and
I'd just have my dad sort ofhalf driving, half testing me on
all my flashcards to do myrevision on the way to and from
training.
And then when I got into thefirst team I actually ended up
(12:15):
moving to Manchester properlyand moved in with a host family
and City was so supportive withmy education.
I moved into the college whichis next door to the training
ground, so a couple of days aweek I'd be off training and I'd
go into college, and then therest of the time I'd just
quickly hurry my lunch downafter training and then scoot
(12:36):
round to college, sometimes comeback and do my gym later and
things like that, and theyorganized tutors when I missed
out on things to catch up andthat was while I was doing my
A-levels.
So it was quite a stressful timebecause I'm a real
perfectionist and I know that Iwas always capable of getting
good grades.
So I didn't want to sort of letmyself down and not achieve
(12:57):
that.
So I put a lot of pressure onmyself to make sure I was
revising hard and, yeah, in theend I did get all the good
grades that I wanted, so it wasworthwhile, although my head
felt like it was going toexplode a bit at the time.
Sue Anstiss (13:11):
Are you obviously now quite well established
within the England team.
So what was that pathway like?
How did that start out for you?
Esme Morgan (13:23):
I don't think I don't know whether it's changed,
but at the time you couldn'tget selected for England youth
teams while you were playinggrassroots football.
So it was only when I got intothe RTC at City that I was
actually available for Englandselection and just a couple of
months into it, really, I gotcalled up to the under 17 team
and it was quite daunting atfirst because a lot of the girls
had been in the setup and for alonger period of time and
(13:45):
they'd been around the RTC, orcentre of excellence systems, as
they were called at the time,for years and so they all knew
each other and I was kind ofthis raw, scrawny kid who'd just
come from grassroots boysfootball and I had a lot to
learn and there's so manytechnical details that I picked
up so quickly coming into theacademy system because obviously
(14:06):
the caliber of coaching wasjust so much greater.
But I just absolutely loved itbecause I felt like I developed
so quickly coming into that cityacademy environment and then
into the England youth teams andwhat I loved about it was just
and say how quickly I progressedand meeting new people so many
of the girls I've not playedwith since, some of the youth
(14:27):
age groups.
But then when we see each otherat WSL games and catch up, it's
just so special and I supposethat's what I love most about
football is just the friends youmake and the connections you
have with people, and beingaround all those different teams
expanded those opportunities somuch.
Sue Anstiss (14:44):
And Charlotte.
I am interested, I guess, froma netball perspective and not
having had that opportunity thatwe now see in football.
How do you feel?
You obviously feel joy for thefootballers that have that now,
but is there an element offrustration of what might have
been if we'd have had that innetball when you were playing?
Do you think you would havecontinued on that pathway?
Charlotte O'Neill (15:03):
I mean, I don't know, but I think for me
it's always about lookingforward, to looking, you know,
to the future and what we canachieve.
So for me, you know, I thinknetball has made great strides,
as has women's football.
I think we are at the base ofthe mountain.
There's more to climb, but Ifeel like we've got all the
resources to do it.
The wind is blowing in theright direction and, without
(15:25):
talking to too many careershabbies, but I'm really
positive about where the netballand women's football, women's
sport in general, can go,because we've shown that with
the right resources, with theright coaches, with the
appropriate facilities, thatwomen's sport is only going to
get better and the productitself, the skill level, is
(15:47):
incredible now.
Sue Anstiss (15:48):
So, you know, like I said, I prefer to look forward
and not backwards and,obviously, as you say, through
not being on that path, you thenwent on to have this incredible
career within sport and you'vehad the most extraordinarily
broad experience of workingacross sport, with roles at
organisations like FINA, gbSwimming London 2012, rugby
World Cup in 2015.
(16:08):
So what was it that you enjoyedabout working on those really
major sports events?
Charlotte O'Neill (16:13):
Yeah, I think , if you look at what a major
sport event is, it's a load ofdiverse people with all their
different areas of expertisecoming together for one common
goal, and you are effectivelylike a family.
The hours are so long, thedeadline doesn't move, so you're
all striving for the same thing, you all want the same outcome,
(16:34):
and I think there are a lot ofindustries or organizations
where that isn't necessarily thecase.
And I think there are a lot ofindustries or organisations
where that isn't necessarily thecase.
So with major events, it'ssuper clear and you're wanting
to put on the best World Cup orthe best Olympic Games ever, and
therefore, in many respects,the diversity of the staff is
really celebrated.
The in-goers are at the doorbecause you all want the same
thing.
I think it's probably theclosest thing I could get
(16:56):
playing sport, because it's allthat.
It's the teamwork, it's theteamwork, it's coronary, it's
being with each other when timesare tough, when you're tired
getting to know how each otherresponds, when you're tired
getting to know how you get thebest out of each other, and so
that was, for me, a fantastictransition outside of playing
sport.
It gave me a lot of the samethings, I suppose.
Sue Anstiss (17:21):
And what was it then that brought you to
football and to Manchester City?
Because that is a bit of ashift from those big major
events, isn't it?
Charlotte O'Neill (17:25):
Yeah, I think , from a role point of view, two
things.
One is the sad part aboutworking on major events is you
establish and grow this amazingteam.
You all get to know each other.
You deliver somethingincredible together and then the
whole thing finishing this.
And then you all have to knoweach other.
You deliver somethingincredible together and then the
whole thing finishing this andthen you all have to go and find
new jobs and you all wavegoodbye and people disperse
across the globe.
So that's like the sad bit.
(17:45):
And when you've done that a fewtimes you see, oh, that's such
a shame, because it's likehaving a team that wins the
league and then the next seasonthe team's disbanded.
You know you want the chance todo the repeat and to go again
and to build.
So I really wanted to work onsomething where the work that we
did would only build and buildand build to play for something
(18:06):
great.
So the role really appealed tome at City.
And then the other thing wasthe specific role Director of
Operations and Development atBoyd's Academy.
You know the way I saw it.
It was helping young peopleachieve their dreams and doing
that every single day talentedyoung footballers, young people
and helping them fulfill theirsporting ambitions and dreams
(18:27):
and also helping them becomebetter people.
And Esme mentioned about herGCSE results and her A-level
results.
So we used to use Esme at theBoys Academy as proof that it
was possible to, if you'd lookinto it, that you could achieve
academic excellence, and that'ssomething that I'm so proud of.
In the eight years I was in theBoys Academy, our academic
(18:50):
results are outstanding, andthat's because we've raised
expectation of what was possibleand, rather than kind of going
down the route of, oh well, you,you know, something has to give
, it is possible to do both, andthe skills that, like Esme
talked about, like you know,being dedicated, being organized
and you know, and coping withthe pressure, are all things.
(19:11):
I think if you get those, um,if you get that under your belt,
when you then are fullyprofessional, they will really
stand you in good stead for therest of your career.
Sue Anstiss (19:21):
And it's obviously been hugely successful.
The man City Boys Academy.
Are there learnings from thatside that you'd like to see
coming into the Women's Academytoo, I guess, and vice versa?
Charlotte O'Neill (19:31):
Yeah, I think in any elite environment
there's always stuff that youlearn and you can translate
across.
So in our Boys Academy academy,historically, we've had more
resource, and that's somethingthat, then, I'm really keen to
do on the girls' side to ensurethat our girls can train the
amount of sessions they need tofor the length, with the quality
of pitches, with the quality ofcoaches.
They're all things that ouracademy are now shifting with
(19:52):
the leadership of Carol Bardsley, which is amazing.
But then there's also some ofthe core things I learned
weren't necessarily about sport,and we have this big mantra in
our boys' academy which isbetter people make better man
city players, and that'ssomething that I really believe
in and that we will do the samein the women's is that if you're
lazy in the classroom or youhave poor standards and you're
(20:13):
rude and you're disrespectful,then it doesn't mean that when
you then move over to our men'sfirst team, you're all of a
sudden going to be anoutstanding professional.
So all the things that weworked on, I think, are now
bearing fruit, and it's sorefreshing to hear Pep talk
glowingly about our boys'academy graduates and how
professional they are, how keenthey are to learn, how
(20:34):
determined they are and how hardthey work, and they're all the
things that I think will, willand do translate over into our
girls' academy.
Sue Anstiss (20:42):
And we're obviously celebrating 10 years of man
City in the WSL this year, so Iam fascinated to understand more
about the changes that you'veboth seen with the women's side
across that time.
So, esme, you've obviouslyexperienced it firsthand as a
player.
I think you joined was it 2014?
You joined as a under 15.
It's a full decade really, butwhat changes have you seen at
(21:03):
the club in that time?
Esme Morgan (21:05):
Yeah, I think this is my night year being sort of
involved in the club since Icame into the academy.
I think I joined the year afterthe inaugural season of man
City Women and I suppose one ofthe most obvious changes to me
having been the number of peoplecoming to watch every game.
I think when they started I wasjust a fan.
(21:26):
I used to come and watch as asupporter with with my family,
and it was over at the regionalathletics arena at first and I
think they got maybe severalhundred people, whereas now
we're consistently getting a fewthousand and obviously going to
games at the Etihad and getting30-40,000 people coming to
watch, which is amazing.
(21:46):
And the other thing, I think,is the standard of player and
the standard of, as Charlottesaid, the product that's being
put out there.
I think every single year itimproves.
We've got young girls now cominginto the team who've had female
role models, who've known it'sa possibility to have a career
in women's football, which we Imean myself, I didn't really
(22:07):
until I actually had it.
I always tell Steph she was thefirst women's footballer I'd
ever heard of.
I first watched her at theLondon 2012 Olympics and that
was my first awareness ofwomen's football at 12 years old
, and now there's girls comingthrough who've been watching it
and inspired by it since theywere three, four, five, and so I
think the standard over thenext few years is only going to
(22:30):
keep improving because thecoaching as well, further down
the pyramid, is so much strongerand so there's so much talent
coming through that the productis only going to get better, and
I think that is something thathas developed hugely in terms of
the pace of the game, thephysicality and the technical
ability of players involved.
(22:50):
If you speak to people likeSteph and Demi, who've been
there the whole time, they'lltell you that themselves.
So, yeah, I think the product'sjust really grown.
Sue Anstiss (23:00):
And Charlotte, obviously you were appointed
Managing Director of man CityWomen last year, so huge
congratulations on that.
I wonder if you can share alittle bit of the day-to-day
activities.
What does that role entail?
Such a prestigious role for theclub?
I know that's a huge ask, isn'tit?
But really, what does that roleentail?
Charlotte O'Neill (23:17):
It's very varied.
So at the moment, the keypriorities are, obviously, we're
on a title race, which is ahuge privilege to be part of, so
doing whatever we can tosupport the team.
I met with Esme and herteammates last week to say, look
, if there's anything you needor whatever we need to do, we're
going to do it.
You know we want to give themevery opportunity to win the
(23:39):
title and it's a privilege to bein that position.
You know there are teams atthis stage who you know the
season has kind of unfolded andthere's not much to play for.
So, yeah, we've got a title race, planning for our tour,
pre-season tours, warm weather,training camps, working on the
new training centre.
We'll just have planningpermission approved, which is
(24:00):
incredible Everything frombuilding the squad for the new
season, supporting our staff,helping everyone get better.
So I would say that's what Ilearned about the job.
It's so varied but ultimately,the single goal is we want to be
the best women's club in theworld and in order to do that,
we have to be the best ateverything.
And it's working with all mycolleagues within the women's
(24:23):
program, with Esme, the team,the coach, captains, et cetera.
Sue Anstiss (24:28):
Anyone that is involved in our program is about
aspiring to be the best andthen working every day to
improve what we do and obviouslyyou mentioned the kind of
planning permission anddevelopments there, but can you
tell us a bit more about thewomen's home stadiums, the joy
stadium, and and why that feelslike from the outside?
It's been such an essentialpart of the club's development?
Charlotte O'Neill (24:47):
yeah, I think it think it's amazing.
Having your own stadiumobviously brings with it so many
benefits.
It's not just on the commercialside, with food, beverage and
controlling the product that youput out there, but also being
able to bring in fantasticpartners, so Joy, who are the
naming rights partner for ourstadium.
They're not a sponsor, they'rea true partner.
(25:10):
They're working with us on, forexample, example, our buggy and
pram store.
They're working with us on thebreastfeeding areas and all
those things that make ourstadium family friendly.
So having your own stadiummeans that you can move quicker
in terms of making it muchbetter environment for everyone
to come and attend, and so it.
It's a huge advantage for usbecause I've just been in a
(25:33):
meeting earlier today about ourfan experience and we've got
independent experts helping usto improve that.
Having your own stadium, itfeels more like home.
I think Esme would agree.
They're in those change roomsall the time.
They're familiar with the pitch, you're not holding to anybody
else, you've got flexibility onthe scheduling, but you know,
(25:56):
most importantly, our fans andour supporters.
We can make sure that every daywe're working to ensure that
they have the best possibleexperience.
So, yeah, we're extremely luckyand grateful to have that
facility.
We're extremely lucky andgrateful to have that facility.
Sue Anstiss (26:08):
I was going to ask you then, Esme, in terms of you
as a player and the team, whatthat means to have that facility
.
Esme Morgan (26:15):
Yeah, we love it.
I think right now it's theperfect size, because when
there's full stands at the Joyand it's a good game and the
crowd are getting behind us, thenoise is incredible and you
might look at it and think, ohwell, it's only 7,000 people,
but it can get loud and itreally lifts the team.
(26:37):
When everyone's sort of gettingbehind us and we really enjoy
playing there Like Charlottesaid, it being our own place and
not sharing it with the men'steam as a lot of WSL clubs do,
it also just means the qualityof the pitch is is great, which,
as a player, is something wereally value.
That's probably why we've hadso much success in terms of our
results at home over the years.
(26:59):
First and foremost, because wehave the support of our crowd
and it's an amazing atmospherefor us to play in, but also the
quality of the facilities thereare the best in the league
really, so we're very, verylucky and you can hear.
Sue Anstiss (27:12):
Can't you obviously see that that manson has been
such a huge trailblazer forwomen's football in the uk and
and globally, and I suppose it'snow good news.
It is good news that we'reseeing other clubs upping their
game too.
So I just wondered, charlotte,do you see a future where the
women's game will ever be on apar with men's in terms of the
visibility and crowd sizes andbroadcast rights, sponsorship,
(27:34):
etc.
Either at man City but morebroadly across the UK?
Charlotte O'Neill (27:39):
Yeah, I don't see why not.
We've made great strides.
We are starting further behind.
I suppose it's the right way toput it.
There's no reason why we can'tcatch up.
And I think what's great is weare celebrating our game, our
women's game, and it's so right.
And our supporters club, forexample, our man City Women's
(27:59):
Supporters Club.
They have men's and women'sseason tickets.
They watch both teams and theyenjoy both games equally.
So of course, we have hugeaspirations for where women's
football can go and man City wewant to be leading the charge,
so super excited.
Sue Anstiss (28:17):
It is exciting and, I guess, looking forward to the
future of women's football.
How do you see, without givingeverything away, but how do you
see man City continuing to movethe game forward and be a
trailblazing club, as you havebeen?
Charlotte O'Neill (28:29):
Yeah, I think you know, as I said earlier, we
want to be the best ineverything we do.
So we have to make sure that,from a football technical point
of view, our programme is youknow is world class.
We have to make sure that weare recruiting and retaining the
best players.
But, you know, a huge part ofthat is our girls' academy and
our pathway, and I would say,like say, we are putting a
(28:50):
really significant focus on ourgirls' pathway.
Esway is a prime example ofwhat having an excellent academy
does for you.
You're putting slynesses sothey don't come along every week
, but I think it would be fairto say that our investment in
our academy investing not justresources but our expertise in
(29:10):
our girls' academy means that wewant to consistently produce a
pipeline of first-team playersfrom our academy, whilst we
would always be out in themarket looking for the world's
best.
That's outside of our programme.
But yeah, absolutely that's ahuge focus for us.
But ultimately we want to bethe best in everything we do.
Sue Anstiss (29:28):
And Esme, I guess finishing there in terms of that
, creating lionesses.
It's obviously been anextraordinary few years for the
lionesses, with the Euros winand the World Cup etc.
Last summer.
So how excited are you for theimpact that success is having
more broadly, so bringing girlsin to football, but also more
widely in society and acrosswomen's sport?
Esme Morgan (29:49):
Yeah, I think it's really special the number of
people now who recognise theLionesses, and I think it's such
a huge brand.
Being a Lioness is a reallyprestigious thing and I think
that's really recognised now.
And obviously it's amazingseeing the respect that those
girls got for women's footballwhen they were the Euros.
(30:10):
But also, I think women insociety can benefit in general
from women being successful andbe shown to receive respect.
It can spread throughout and Ithink that's really important
and just young girls and boysbeing able to see people from
their nation or people fromtheir favourite team being
(30:30):
successful.
I think it's inspiring and,like I say, having role models
to look up to is really powerfuland being able to follow your
passion and follow your dreamsand try to achieve what those
who've gone before you have done, I think is something that, as
a young person, is reallyspecial and, yeah, it's really
just useful having people to beable to look up to, who've been
(30:52):
successful, who were once inyour shoes Absolutely.
Sue Anstiss (30:56):
Well, fantastic.
Thank you so much to both ofyou for taking the time to talk
and I kind of wish you well,esme, with your kind of playing
career and Charlotte, with allyou're doing at the club and the
growth of the club too.
So, yeah, for the next decadein the WSL.
Thank you so so much for takingthe time to talk to me.
Thank you, thanks, sue, thanksso much to Charlotte and Esme
(31:21):
for taking the time to talk tome, and thanks also to Nissan
for supporting this episode.
If you enjoyed the podcast,there are over 180 episodes
featuring conversations withwomen's sport trailblazers that
are free to listen to on allpodcast platforms or on our
website at fearlesswomencouk.
The whole of my book Game On: The Unstoppable Rise of Women's (31:42):
undefined
Sport is also free to listen toon the podcast.
Every episode of series 13 isme reading a chapter of the book
.
The website is also the placewhere you can find out more
about the women's sportcollective, our free, inclusive
community for all women workingin sport.
(32:02):
We now have over 7 000 membersfrom over 90 countries who meet
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Kate Hannon.
Do follow us to make sure youdon't miss out on future
(32:29):
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