March 21, 2025 • 37 mins
A dating episode from the divorce queens! This week, Lindsay reveals an announcement and the two besties call each other out on their bullshit like only besties can. Ilyse and Lindsay check in with each other on the topic of dating and share some of the things that are helping them heal when it comes to dating, relationships, and hooking up. Lunar eclipse, hitchhiking ghosts, and microdosing.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
We are licensed therapists, but
we probably aren't your therapists.
While we may share helpful information about mental
health, it is best to form your individual
(00:20):
care plan with your own mental health professional.
If we are your therapist Hi.
While this podcast shares nuggets of wisdom about mental
health, we are sharing many pieces of who we
are outside of the therap room and doing a
lot of yapping about nonsense, our own healing work,
and some about sex and dating.
If you feel listening to this podcast may
interfere with your work in therapy, please refrain
(00:42):
from doing so while we're on the subject.
Any notes from Our dating lives have been changed
to protect the privacy of our partners and ourselves.
Thanks for listening.
Welcome to the Healing Journey Podcast.
I'm Ilyse Kennedy.
And I'm Lindsay Camp.
This is the podcast where two therapist
besties talk about their healing journeys and
interview others on their healing journeys and
(01:05):
healers who have helped along the way. Hi Lindsay.
Hi Ilyse.
How are you babe?
Well, we're raw dogging this episode.
You're finding me coming in hot from I had
therapy today and because of the announcement that I'll
make in a moment, I didn't have anything to
talk about in therapy but my own bullshit.
(01:26):
And I had a really intense session
around my, my grief and my mom.
And yeah, I'm coming in.
I'm coming in with some heaviness today.
So thank you for.
Thanks for holding it with me. Of course.
And I missed therapy last week
as well as a Reiki session.
(01:48):
I was supposed to see our friend Tara and she intuitively
knew that I wasn't going to make it, which was fair.
And as we talked about with an announcement
that I'll make shortly, some of us move
our energies through more slowly than others.
(02:11):
So my announcement is that I
am currently sober from dating. Absolutely.
And I'm taking a harm reductionist approach.
Safer, safer, safer dating.
(02:32):
Talk to us about going sober.
Yeah, so I told you this I don't
know, like a week or so ago.
And so there's some context for how we got here.
But then like, sure, sure, the experience of feels
like I told you that when I quit drinking
(02:53):
for a couple years a couple years ago.
Back on the sauce now.
But I learned so much about myself in that
experience and really like faced my stuff and this
is doing something similar that I don't have that
band aid to put on hard feelings.
(03:15):
I'm not, I haven't been on the apps in a
long time and I'm not currently talking to anybody or
sleeping with anybody and, and It, Yeah, I'm just raw
dogging life without that band aid of distraction.
But it also is feeling really good
to be putting into practice something that
(03:36):
we've talked about, which is decentering men.
And I have done it in some other little ways, but
this feels like an important step at the moment to just
take a step back and reorganize myself and chill.
Yeah, I'm just, like, not in the place right now.
(03:57):
Very fair. Proud of you. Thank you.
Thank you for being one of my
sponsors in this and also wanted, like,
we're not making light of sober journeys.
I want to be really clear that this is just when
we use language, like, we talk about death and sobriety.
This is me, like, infusing in some of my.
(04:20):
One of my favorite coping skills, which is dark
humor and reaching for things that are, like, tangible.
Nor are we making light of raw dogging it.
We do our best to practice safe sex, and we
recommend that you get tested either after each partner or
(04:42):
once a month if you are not sober in dating.
So just to say that as well.
Important, important psa. Yeah.
Now we journeyed this weekend.
There was a full lunar eclipse.
(05:03):
This lunar eclipse was all about shedding.
We did take a mushroom journey as well
the day after the full moon eclipse.
Unfortunately, I spent the eclipse with somebody that I
was supposed to be shedding, but I said to
his face, I might shed you in the eclipse.
(05:24):
So at least we're being honest.
Then we had a really emotional.
Maybe it was the day after we went
to see one of our mutual faves, Waxahatchee.
And it was a very magical experience.
And then the next day, like, really
(05:46):
hit and I felt very sad.
I'm sorry to laugh, but I came home.
I came back to your house from my reiki session that
you so graciously and lovingly gifted me for my birthday.
That you were supposed to be an attend.
You were supposed to have done as well, but missed.
And so Tara, our psychic medium, also does energy work.
(06:11):
And when I tell you those two
hours with her were just magical.
But when I came home, I walked into a
scene, and I should have known something was up.
(06:32):
And you usually get, like, you get a little
anxiety after we've done a little bit of mushrooms.
And also like to.
To when we talk about mushrooms, like, we're.
I'm never on, like, a wild trip.
Like, I'm just doing a little bit and colors are
more vibrant and, like, I'm thinking about stuff more deeply.
I always say I like to get wavy. It's.
(06:53):
It's above micro dosing.
It's definitely a trip, but I
like to get wavy and just. Yeah.
Feel things more intensely.
Feel the music intensely.
See the colors intensely.
I told you.
Yes, sorry. I told you.
Tara picked up on the mushrooms in my system.
I was laying on her table
(07:14):
and she's like, are you microdosing?
And I was like, I had a couple stims last night.
And she was like, I can feel it in your.
I can feel it.
But so I walked into.
Did I cut you off?
It's okay.
I was just gonna say I get wavy and then
I have intense waves of anxiety the next day.
(07:34):
And it's uncomfy. Yeah.
The intensity tends to then lend itself
to some tough reflection the next day.
So I walked in knowing that there
would be Chipotle waiting for me.
But what I didn't know was that
Lana would be playing and you'd have.
(07:56):
You would also have a Diet Coke from McDonald's.
So that when I took that in, I
realized that we were up to some stuff.
And all of my tarot decks and crystals were next
to me having been left out charging since the eclipse.
So it was a scene.
(08:17):
Yeah.
You didn't even greet me at the door.
The dogs were barking.
I had to let myself in through the
garage because the front door was locked.
And I find you horizontal outside with Lana and a DC.
And I said, oh, we're in it.
Oh, what was going on?
So my harm reductionist approach in sobriety
(08:40):
culture, the harm reduction approach is slowly,
non shamingly tapering off of something.
Now.
I've actually been experiencing a
pretty healing for me relationship.
(09:05):
And by the way, when the
episode drops, everything will have.
He.
He knows and he's not going to listen anyway.
But I've been experiencing a pretty healing
for me in many ways relationship.
(09:25):
But what I said to you was, if I
continue it, I know that I'm only hurting myself.
And I think we come up against so
much of our own shit in relationships.
No matter the style of the relationship, no
matter how healthy the relationship is, we face
(09:47):
a lot of our own shit.
And I just know that it's gotten to the
point that continuing it is only hurting me.
And that also makes me sad. Yeah.
And so my harm reductionist approach is letting him
know when it will end, but just saying, you
(10:11):
know, we've got a few more hangs left in
us, but we're coming to our expiration date.
Like Carole and her last good summers. Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
I remember in grad school, one of my professors talking
about relationships Being a mirror and holding up the stuff
(10:33):
that maybe we aren't seeing or looking at.
And yeah, it's so true.
It's so, so true.
I think there's something tough, too.
I've been thinking about that idea
of relationships being a mirror.
And so often I am the mirror in relationships
(10:55):
because I have done so much of my own
work, and so that can scare people away.
So experiencing a relationship where these.
There are these different types of boundaries
and the mirror is not scary.
But I'm also getting a mirror shown
(11:16):
because of the safety in the relationship.
Or are you looking at the mirror because of the safety?
I'm getting there.
It's like I am seeing myself in the haunted mansion.
Oh, no.
With the hitchhiking ghosts.
But the hitchhiking ghosts are also me.
Like, my ghost is hitchhiking, and
(11:40):
that's the mirror I'm looking at.
Does that make sense?
Say more about hitchhiking ghost.
So at Disney World, there's
this ride, the Haunted Mansion.
And at the end of the ride, you come
up to a mirror and you see that these
3D ghosts have hitchhiked their way into your vestibule.
(12:03):
And they're just like ghosts in silly hats.
That ghost is me.
I'm sitting next to myself.
I'm looking at my own reflection,
and I'm the hitchhiking ghost. Okay.
And maybe wearing a silly hat.
I don't know.
Likely.
Likely wearing a silly hat.
(12:23):
You know those memes that are like, that.
They talk about, like, I've healed too much and
now I, like, don't have any plans on Friday
night or I've healed too much and I, like. I can't.
I like, fuck boys are unattractive
now or whatever it is.
(12:44):
I'm really feeling that.
That I have been noticing some of
my patterns and have been, like.
Have been, like, really aware of the
crossroads that I come up against of.
Do I continue the same shit?
Do I do the same old thing?
(13:06):
Do I replay the same pattern over and over?
Or do I make a different choice and sit in the
discomfort of that. we were talking with one night when we
were out at Sam's Town with some of our girlfriends.
You were inside up to some stuff, and
we were sitting outside, and Gabbing, I was
inside playing out my old patterns. Yeah.
(13:30):
And I was talking about one of my old patterns
and how much I liked him and how much I
knew he liked me too, but it, like, didn't.
It wasn't working.
Blah, blah, blah.
And I remember saying, like, I know
that I could text him right? Now.
And I would get a response
that, like, felt good enough.
Like, I know that he would be like,
you know, he would give it a heart.
(13:50):
He would say something in response, it would feel fine.
But it, like, that wasn't gonna do anything.
And so, like, not texting him was actually my.
Like, that was my stuff to.
Or that was my.
My crossroads to, like, not reach out when I was
feeling icky or not try to use that as, like,
(14:14):
a balm to, like, the shit that I was feeling.
So what do you think happened under the
full moon on the way home from Waxahatchee?
What possessed you?
How dare you.
How dare you.
We're always hilling.
We're never healed. Always.
Always in process. Yeah. So what.
(14:37):
What my dear friend here is alluding to
is that I fired off some text. Sure.
You know, I don't know what possessed me.
Like, why the fuck did I also
text my ex husband that night?
Like, and they weren't anything of note.
Like, they weren't meaningful messages, really.
I don't know what possessed me.
(14:58):
I had that feeling earlier in the day because I was
in the town that this person lives in, and, like, he
was just, like, on my mind during the day.
And then I guess I poured a couple
drinks on it and he heard from me.
You know, couple drinks, a couple stems.
Couple stems.
(15:19):
You know, there's such a
universal, like, desire to connect.
And even though I was with my bestie and
seeing my favorite artist, like, there's still this, like,
gnawing for, like, something a little more.
(15:39):
Hello, I'm Lindsay Camp, and when I'm not on
this podcast, yapping away with my bestie, I'm a
therapist running a group practice called Austin Teen therapy.
For over 10 years, our clinicians have specialized
in working with young people and their families.
And though we're based in Austin, we
see folks virtually all over Texas.
If you or a teen in your life
(16:00):
is in need of some support with anxiety,
depression, disordered eating, trauma school stuff, you name
it, come check us out at www.austinteentherapy.com.
you can also find us on Instagram @austinteentherapy
for helpful parenting tips, psycho education on those
teen years, community, and so much more.
(16:21):
Moving parts.
Psychotherapy is a group therapy practice
located in South Austin, Texas.
We offer in person services for those in
Austin and virtual services for clients throughout Texas.
We see children through adults
specializing in trauma recovery.
Our clinicians are trained in trauma modalities such
as EMDR and internal family systems therapy.
(16:42):
To learn more or get connected with
A therapist today, visit www.movingpartspsychotherapy.com or email
hello@movingpartspsychotherapy.com I was thinking a lot about
actually a Waxahatchee song.
(17:03):
And I did say this out loud to the gentleman in
question, but the lyrics, I don't know why you would lie.
It was never the love you wanted.
Jesus.
And that fucking hits Jesus.
Because it's lying to yourself.
It's lying to nobody else but yourself.
(17:23):
And it's dimming what you might actually
want to receive, what somebody can offer.
And I found that as I was exploring what I
wanted for future relationships, because I have so many different
ideas of relationships now that I've been divorced.
(17:45):
My big thing was that I
used relationships to form my life.
Like, I moved to Austin because of a partner.
And a lot of what I did was hoping
to be seen by a partner, like, even things
that I did in my professional life.
(18:06):
I just wanted my partner to be proud
of me and to really see me.
And a lot of it was like trying to fill
some sort of a gaping hole inside of me.
But I also realized this other piece around my
attachment patterns, where not being alone is not wanting
(18:32):
to be not alone in the sense of not
having a partner, but not alone.
Floating in space.
I imagine myself just floating in
space, completely alone in the abyss.
And it's that sense of not wanting to be alone.
(18:53):
I love living alone, and I love my life.
And I am obsessed with my friends, and I
have so much to look forward to, and I
have so much fun with my children.
And I love and I'm obsessed with
my children, and they delight me.
Everything is so full.
And I love my job, and I'm really
(19:15):
proud of the work that I do.
And so I know that I'm at a place where having
a partnership would only add to those things, should only add
to those things, should only add to those things.
And a lot of what I was looking for was
fun in partnership, for it to not feel too heavy.
(19:39):
And I want to be able to show my full
self, too, and to have those parts of me met.
And so I think the idea of not just floating in
the abyss is more healing work for me to do.
I don't really think I'm going to drop
into the abyss if I don't have partnership.
(20:02):
And I fully believe that there's no expiration
date on when we can find fulfilling partnerships.
I also don't know that I want traditional
monogamy, But I still know that something has
been missing for me in what I've Been
(20:24):
experiencing now, like in your dating lately.
Post divorce, in my dating lately.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I feel like I.
After leaving my marriage, I remember you said
to me, because I was up to something
that was not aligned with my values.
(20:44):
And I remember you saying to me,
like, I'll give you a year.
And then, like, you've really got to cut the shit.
Yeah, it's understandable now.
And like, there's a time limit on.
On this behavior.
And yeah.
I think about, like, the ways that we try to get
(21:06):
those needs met and in doing so, hurt ourselves sometimes.
Yeah.
And that's why we have best friends,
to call us honestly on our shit.
And when it's not to the extreme of being misaligned
with our values, we can hold the harm reductionist approach
(21:29):
with our friends where we let them do what they
need to do and let it all unfold.
And I'm here to talk with you about it all over
and over and over again, as much as you need.
And we're here to be completely honest with each
other and really help ourselves explore the depths.
My female friendships have been the container and backdrop for
(21:57):
all of this in a way that I wasn't.
I've had really beautiful friends my whole life,
but I wasn't leaning into it with honesty
when I was dating before being married.
And even in my marriage, I don't think I was being.
Well, I wasn't being honest with myself about some stuff,
(22:18):
and he wasn't being honest with either of us about
some stuff, but I wasn't being honest with my friends.
And that piece, I'm really trying to do differently
this time instead of like, oh, everything's great.
(22:43):
Because that, like, when I say that, what
I'm really saying is like, oh, I did
a good job picking, or I'm good.
Like, see me, I'm good, because this is good.
So I'm good.
I think that in my first iteration of dating, I
thought that I put my friends first, but I really
(23:05):
wasn't, even though I loved them so much and I
had so many incredible experiences with my friends, and I
really looked forward to plans with my friends.
There's something really different for me
in this iteration of dating in
how much I'm prioritizing my friendships.
(23:27):
Because I found after divorce that my friends are the
ones that were here to catch me and my friends
are the ones that will hopefully continue to be there.
Of course there are friendship
breakups, and that's devastating.
But I'm even just thinking in my head,
now we have our next big friend.
(23:50):
Thing with all the ladies is we have a
bunch of ladies going to see Lola Kirk, and
I am looking forward to that more than I'm
looking forward to any other upcoming event.
And it was the friends that we were hanging
out with, too, that made this weekend so magical.
(24:11):
So I'm really holding that
prioritization of the friendships.
And there is something very fun about
talking about your romances with your friends.
When I was first getting into the dating scene, we
(24:32):
had a group that would do apps and apps.
One of our friends is married in a
very healthy, wonderful marriage, and she wanted to
reinvigorate one of our other friends who was
pretty exhausted with dating and the app culture.
And now we know why.
When I was young and fun and, you know, a year
(24:55):
or two ago, I didn't understand why she felt burnt out.
I was just getting those dopamine hits.
Now I understand.
But it was the whole event of apps and apps.
That's what made the dating so fun. Yeah.
And it is fun to talk about.
It is fun to yap about.
I like what you're saying, though, that, like, the fun
(25:17):
part of that was feeling the love and the witness
in that way and the joy in that way.
It wasn't the men you were going on the
dates with that were fun or the men that
weren't going on dates and just appeared and then
disappeared as quickly as they came. The graveyard.
The graveyard.
(25:37):
It should be said that every time we
drive through your old neighborhood, which has a
cemetery, we blow kisses to all of our.
All of our past lovers. May they rest. All the men.
Yeah.
All the men who have passed away.
I think a lot about what a foreign
(25:59):
culture, app culture felt like to me. Yeah.
Because you had never done it right.
Like, before marriage. Okay.
And being a therapist and a huge nerd around attachment,
I really thought a lot about, and it felt almost
like an anthropological study for me of how much it's
(26:22):
changed how we relate to each other.
And there's something really beautiful in now we can.
We have more opportunity to connect with
more people than we ever have.
And with that being said, it's made humans
(26:43):
a lot more disposable, and there's a lot
of different poor behavior that happens.
I'm thinking of the first person that I connected with
on the apps and my first date that I went
on on the apps, and I had such high hopes
(27:04):
because this person was, like, asking me deep questions.
He had gone to therapy.
He was sending me voice notes.
He was like, you remind me of my mom.
We were talking about literature.
He was so into it and so excited.
And then we went on two dates and it was over.
(27:26):
And I was really sad about it, like in a
different way, because I had envisioned all the possibility of
what it could be without really knowing this person.
Yeah, yeah.
And I think that's something else that it's opened up
is it lets us project a lot onto people.
(27:50):
And so these shorter relationships can be even more
devastating because we've projected so much onto it and
we have such high hopes about it.
You do a really good job of trying to quell that
by not looking them up online, not getting extra information.
(28:12):
And I think that's part of that
out of necessity to rein it in.
Yeah, it is interesting.
The point that I'm at now, I
have a much different perspective on it.
And something has shifted inside of me where I can
still hold my ability for the depths of connection.
(28:35):
Like, I still feel like I very much have that in me.
And I have a much more
nonchalant approach and perspective on things.
Of course, of course, of course I'm harm reductioning.
So this won't even be necessary soon because
before you know it, I'll be sober.
But I just approach it with a we'll see attitude.
(29:01):
And I'm pretty okay, no matter the outcome.
But I still leave a possibility that if somebody wants to
connect and open up with me, I'm open to that.
And I can still have vulnerable,
authentic connections without getting too hurt.
(29:25):
I think I now appreciate each connection for what it is
to hold the humanity of it and to protect myself.
I think I'm learning how important it is
to, you know, like Casey Musgrave says, some
people are givers and some are takers.
(29:46):
And I'm learning how important it is to, yeah, have.
Have those protections, have those energetic and
emotional boundaries where we're not so porous.
Tara told me.
I don't think I told you this.
Tara told me that when she was working
on my heart chakra, she said, I can.
(30:08):
It's bruised, but it's not broken. And it's still.
She was like, you're still so heart wide open.
And I feel that.
That I'm like, I'm a woman scorned, but I'm also
still a believer and yeah, still open to it.
(30:30):
Although again, sober right now.
But yeah.
And I think that those boundaries help us.
Help us stay with ourselves and help us
to not have shattered hearts that aren't.
That we then close.
I don't want to be a bitter, jaded,
(30:53):
closed off person and that's part of that's
my job, part of that's my work.
It's not, you know, these men who do X, Y and Z.
It's what I'm allowing, what I'm tolerating, what I'm continuing
once I know that something's not good for me.
Yeah, I always think about that meme that
(31:14):
said, how do you know you're in love?
And it says, I start off in love
and then I subtract as I go.
And I think that's the way I show up.
Heart wide open.
I'm so open to possibility and such a lover girl.
And I think what I've been shifting in my protection
(31:37):
of myself but still holding that open heartedness is paying
attention to what I'm receiving for from people and being
really honest with myself about what I'm receiving and not
putting the cart before the horse in my own feelings
(31:59):
or imaginings of what something could be.
Because I'm sure if we looked up in our
text messages, the amount of times that I've said
I'm in love, it would be wild.
In fact, I believe just a week or two ago you checked in
(32:19):
on how a date was going and I said, I'm in love.
And then an hour later I said, never, never mind.
When you were talking earlier about like the like dating
to fill that hole, I was just flashing on Erika
(32:43):
Jayne Girardi saying to Tom, whenever he said I'm proud
of you about her getting Chicago and she was ugly,
crying and saying, that's all I've ever wanted.
Like, yeah.
Oh, I feel that.
I feel that so much. Yeah.
And yet we can be proud of ourselves.
(33:03):
Yeah, I'm proud of each other.
I'm proud of each other and have amazing,
fulfilling experiences that are romantic for ourselves.
Like, I've really shifted towards romanticizing my life
and it brings me so much joy.
(33:25):
My most romantic date that I've been on in
the past year or two was when I made
a reservation for myself, a one person reservation.
And I went to book people and got the Britney
Spears memoir and I had a glass of red wine
and my little Italian dinner and I read it at
(33:47):
the bar and the people next to me asked about
it and I did a little back and forth and
I was just engrossed in this memoir and funnily enough,
Justin Timberlake, just another man who's disappointed us and reminds
us why men can be disappointing and embarrassing.
(34:09):
I feel called to read Shep's text message.
Please, please, let's give a lay of the land so
in one of our shows, Southern Charm on the Bravo
network, Shep has been a known fuckboy for years.
(34:30):
This man has fucked everyone in
Charleston and treated women horribly.
We've seen him in a few long
term relationships and it never goes well.
And he's also said to not make sure that women orgasm.
Yeah, that's not a.
(34:52):
Which is not a concern of his. That's not a.
Yeah, it's not something that he's.
So Shep this season was dating this
woman, Sienna, who's this insanely gorgeous model.
Miss Universe from The Bahamas or Ms.
Bahamas competing in Miss
(35:12):
Universe, something like that.
And we saw their relationship play out.
Apparently they were never official.
But all of it culminated on a cast trip where
Sienna was clearly disgusted with this man, didn't want him
to be there, and was on her a little bit.
(35:35):
A little bit.
You don't have to keep being here, girl.
Just go.
She did, though, she saw herself out.
And I think the trip was booked with Bravo.
And maybe, you know, not to break the fourth
wall, but I think some things were scheduled.
She had a call time.
She had some call times.
She was paid for her. Yeah. Her time. Yeah.
(35:59):
But anyway, I think it could be healing for everyone to
hear a really embarrassing text sent by an ex fuckboy.
So please.
Okay, let's end here.
Good morning, Sienna.
Listen, I love seeing you and no one else.
No one.
But I'm not going to try to convince
(36:20):
somebody they love me for three days, especially
when I know deep down that they do.
Here's hoping you understand my
feelings and exalt them.
I don't think I remember the exalt them part. What?
Okay, I just don't feel this way ever.
I know that you agree and feel a
(36:41):
lot of what I do because I've heard
it from your perfect little freckled lips.
And those around us can say and think what
they will, but we will have the last laugh
and we'll have love, laughter, and everything that matters.
Okay, my TED Talk is over.
And that's our show.
Good luck, everyone out there.
(37:03):
We love you.
We hope that you're healing through
relationships and we'll catch you soon. Bye. Bye. Bye.
Thank you so much for joining us.
If you liked what you heard, please subscribe and
consider leaving a review if you have already.
Thank you. You can find us on
all all socials @thehillingjourney.
(37:23):
You can find us online at
www.thehillingjourney.com and you can shoot us
an email at thehillingjourney@gmail.com. talk soon.
We are licensed therapists, but
we probably aren't your therapists.
While we may share helpful information about mental
health, it is best to form your individual
(00:20):
care plan with your own mental health professional.
If we are your therapist Hi.
While this podcast shares nuggets of wisdom about mental
health, we are sharing many pieces of who we
are outside of the therap room and doing a
lot of yapping about nonsense, our own healing work,
and some about sex and dating.
If you feel listening to this podcast may
interfere with your work in therapy, please refrain
(00:42):
from doing so while we're on the subject.
Any notes from Our dating lives have been changed
to protect the privacy of our partners and ourselves.
Thanks for listening.
Welcome to the Healing Journey Podcast.
I'm Ilyse Kennedy.
And I'm Lindsay Camp.
This is the podcast where two therapist
besties talk about their healing journeys and
interview others on their healing journeys and
(01:05):
healers who have helped along the way. Hi Lindsay.
Hi Ilyse.
How are you babe?
Well, we're raw dogging this episode.
You're finding me coming in hot from I had
therapy today and because of the announcement that I'll
make in a moment, I didn't have anything to
talk about in therapy but my own bullshit.
(01:26):
And I had a really intense session
around my, my grief and my mom.
And yeah, I'm coming in.
I'm coming in with some heaviness today.
So thank you for.
Thanks for holding it with me. Of course.
And I missed therapy last week
as well as a Reiki session.
(01:48):
I was supposed to see our friend Tara and she intuitively
knew that I wasn't going to make it, which was fair.
And as we talked about with an announcement
that I'll make shortly, some of us move
our energies through more slowly than others.
(02:11):
So my announcement is that I
am currently sober from dating. Absolutely.
And I'm taking a harm reductionist approach.
Safer, safer, safer dating.
(02:32):
Talk to us about going sober.
Yeah, so I told you this I don't
know, like a week or so ago.
And so there's some context for how we got here.
But then like, sure, sure, the experience of feels
like I told you that when I quit drinking
(02:53):
for a couple years a couple years ago.
Back on the sauce now.
But I learned so much about myself in that
experience and really like faced my stuff and this
is doing something similar that I don't have that
band aid to put on hard feelings.
(03:15):
I'm not, I haven't been on the apps in a
long time and I'm not currently talking to anybody or
sleeping with anybody and, and It, Yeah, I'm just raw
dogging life without that band aid of distraction.
But it also is feeling really good
to be putting into practice something that
(03:36):
we've talked about, which is decentering men.
And I have done it in some other little ways, but
this feels like an important step at the moment to just
take a step back and reorganize myself and chill.
Yeah, I'm just, like, not in the place right now.
(03:57):
Very fair. Proud of you. Thank you.
Thank you for being one of my
sponsors in this and also wanted, like,
we're not making light of sober journeys.
I want to be really clear that this is just when
we use language, like, we talk about death and sobriety.
This is me, like, infusing in some of my.
(04:20):
One of my favorite coping skills, which is dark
humor and reaching for things that are, like, tangible.
Nor are we making light of raw dogging it.
We do our best to practice safe sex, and we
recommend that you get tested either after each partner or
(04:42):
once a month if you are not sober in dating.
So just to say that as well.
Important, important psa. Yeah.
Now we journeyed this weekend.
There was a full lunar eclipse.
(05:03):
This lunar eclipse was all about shedding.
We did take a mushroom journey as well
the day after the full moon eclipse.
Unfortunately, I spent the eclipse with somebody that I
was supposed to be shedding, but I said to
his face, I might shed you in the eclipse.
(05:24):
So at least we're being honest.
Then we had a really emotional.
Maybe it was the day after we went
to see one of our mutual faves, Waxahatchee.
And it was a very magical experience.
And then the next day, like, really
(05:46):
hit and I felt very sad.
I'm sorry to laugh, but I came home.
I came back to your house from my reiki session that
you so graciously and lovingly gifted me for my birthday.
That you were supposed to be an attend.
You were supposed to have done as well, but missed.
And so Tara, our psychic medium, also does energy work.
(06:11):
And when I tell you those two
hours with her were just magical.
But when I came home, I walked into a
scene, and I should have known something was up.
(06:32):
And you usually get, like, you get a little
anxiety after we've done a little bit of mushrooms.
And also like to.
To when we talk about mushrooms, like, we're.
I'm never on, like, a wild trip.
Like, I'm just doing a little bit and colors are
more vibrant and, like, I'm thinking about stuff more deeply.
I always say I like to get wavy. It's.
(06:53):
It's above micro dosing.
It's definitely a trip, but I
like to get wavy and just. Yeah.
Feel things more intensely.
Feel the music intensely.
See the colors intensely.
I told you.
Yes, sorry. I told you.
Tara picked up on the mushrooms in my system.
I was laying on her table
(07:14):
and she's like, are you microdosing?
And I was like, I had a couple stims last night.
And she was like, I can feel it in your.
I can feel it.
But so I walked into.
Did I cut you off?
It's okay.
I was just gonna say I get wavy and then
I have intense waves of anxiety the next day.
(07:34):
And it's uncomfy. Yeah.
The intensity tends to then lend itself
to some tough reflection the next day.
So I walked in knowing that there
would be Chipotle waiting for me.
But what I didn't know was that
Lana would be playing and you'd have.
(07:56):
You would also have a Diet Coke from McDonald's.
So that when I took that in, I
realized that we were up to some stuff.
And all of my tarot decks and crystals were next
to me having been left out charging since the eclipse.
So it was a scene.
(08:17):
Yeah.
You didn't even greet me at the door.
The dogs were barking.
I had to let myself in through the
garage because the front door was locked.
And I find you horizontal outside with Lana and a DC.
And I said, oh, we're in it.
Oh, what was going on?
So my harm reductionist approach in sobriety
(08:40):
culture, the harm reduction approach is slowly,
non shamingly tapering off of something.
Now.
I've actually been experiencing a
pretty healing for me relationship.
(09:05):
And by the way, when the
episode drops, everything will have.
He.
He knows and he's not going to listen anyway.
But I've been experiencing a pretty healing
for me in many ways relationship.
(09:25):
But what I said to you was, if I
continue it, I know that I'm only hurting myself.
And I think we come up against so
much of our own shit in relationships.
No matter the style of the relationship, no
matter how healthy the relationship is, we face
(09:47):
a lot of our own shit.
And I just know that it's gotten to the
point that continuing it is only hurting me.
And that also makes me sad. Yeah.
And so my harm reductionist approach is letting him
know when it will end, but just saying, you
(10:11):
know, we've got a few more hangs left in
us, but we're coming to our expiration date.
Like Carole and her last good summers. Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
I remember in grad school, one of my professors talking
about relationships Being a mirror and holding up the stuff
(10:33):
that maybe we aren't seeing or looking at.
And yeah, it's so true.
It's so, so true.
I think there's something tough, too.
I've been thinking about that idea
of relationships being a mirror.
And so often I am the mirror in relationships
(10:55):
because I have done so much of my own
work, and so that can scare people away.
So experiencing a relationship where these.
There are these different types of boundaries
and the mirror is not scary.
But I'm also getting a mirror shown
(11:16):
because of the safety in the relationship.
Or are you looking at the mirror because of the safety?
I'm getting there.
It's like I am seeing myself in the haunted mansion.
Oh, no.
With the hitchhiking ghosts.
But the hitchhiking ghosts are also me.
Like, my ghost is hitchhiking, and
(11:40):
that's the mirror I'm looking at.
Does that make sense?
Say more about hitchhiking ghost.
So at Disney World, there's
this ride, the Haunted Mansion.
And at the end of the ride, you come
up to a mirror and you see that these
3D ghosts have hitchhiked their way into your vestibule.
(12:03):
And they're just like ghosts in silly hats.
That ghost is me.
I'm sitting next to myself.
I'm looking at my own reflection,
and I'm the hitchhiking ghost. Okay.
And maybe wearing a silly hat.
I don't know.
Likely.
Likely wearing a silly hat.
(12:23):
You know those memes that are like, that.
They talk about, like, I've healed too much and
now I, like, don't have any plans on Friday
night or I've healed too much and I, like. I can't.
I like, fuck boys are unattractive
now or whatever it is.
(12:44):
I'm really feeling that.
That I have been noticing some of
my patterns and have been, like.
Have been, like, really aware of the
crossroads that I come up against of.
Do I continue the same shit?
Do I do the same old thing?
(13:06):
Do I replay the same pattern over and over?
Or do I make a different choice and sit in the
discomfort of that. we were talking with one night when we
were out at Sam's Town with some of our girlfriends.
You were inside up to some stuff, and
we were sitting outside, and Gabbing, I was
inside playing out my old patterns. Yeah.
(13:30):
And I was talking about one of my old patterns
and how much I liked him and how much I
knew he liked me too, but it, like, didn't.
It wasn't working.
Blah, blah, blah.
And I remember saying, like, I know
that I could text him right? Now.
And I would get a response
that, like, felt good enough.
Like, I know that he would be like,
you know, he would give it a heart.
(13:50):
He would say something in response, it would feel fine.
But it, like, that wasn't gonna do anything.
And so, like, not texting him was actually my.
Like, that was my stuff to.
Or that was my.
My crossroads to, like, not reach out when I was
feeling icky or not try to use that as, like,
(14:14):
a balm to, like, the shit that I was feeling.
So what do you think happened under the
full moon on the way home from Waxahatchee?
What possessed you?
How dare you.
How dare you.
We're always hilling.
We're never healed. Always.
Always in process. Yeah. So what.
(14:37):
What my dear friend here is alluding to
is that I fired off some text. Sure.
You know, I don't know what possessed me.
Like, why the fuck did I also
text my ex husband that night?
Like, and they weren't anything of note.
Like, they weren't meaningful messages, really.
I don't know what possessed me.
(14:58):
I had that feeling earlier in the day because I was
in the town that this person lives in, and, like, he
was just, like, on my mind during the day.
And then I guess I poured a couple
drinks on it and he heard from me.
You know, couple drinks, a couple stems.
Couple stems.
(15:19):
You know, there's such a
universal, like, desire to connect.
And even though I was with my bestie and
seeing my favorite artist, like, there's still this, like,
gnawing for, like, something a little more.
(15:39):
Hello, I'm Lindsay Camp, and when I'm not on
this podcast, yapping away with my bestie, I'm a
therapist running a group practice called Austin Teen therapy.
For over 10 years, our clinicians have specialized
in working with young people and their families.
And though we're based in Austin, we
see folks virtually all over Texas.
If you or a teen in your life
(16:00):
is in need of some support with anxiety,
depression, disordered eating, trauma school stuff, you name
it, come check us out at www.austinteentherapy.com.
you can also find us on Instagram @austinteentherapy
for helpful parenting tips, psycho education on those
teen years, community, and so much more.
(16:21):
Moving parts.
Psychotherapy is a group therapy practice
located in South Austin, Texas.
We offer in person services for those in
Austin and virtual services for clients throughout Texas.
We see children through adults
specializing in trauma recovery.
Our clinicians are trained in trauma modalities such
as EMDR and internal family systems therapy.
(16:42):
To learn more or get connected with
A therapist today, visit www.movingpartspsychotherapy.com or email
hello@movingpartspsychotherapy.com I was thinking a lot about
actually a Waxahatchee song.
(17:03):
And I did say this out loud to the gentleman in
question, but the lyrics, I don't know why you would lie.
It was never the love you wanted.
Jesus.
And that fucking hits Jesus.
Because it's lying to yourself.
It's lying to nobody else but yourself.
(17:23):
And it's dimming what you might actually
want to receive, what somebody can offer.
And I found that as I was exploring what I
wanted for future relationships, because I have so many different
ideas of relationships now that I've been divorced.
(17:45):
My big thing was that I
used relationships to form my life.
Like, I moved to Austin because of a partner.
And a lot of what I did was hoping
to be seen by a partner, like, even things
that I did in my professional life.
(18:06):
I just wanted my partner to be proud
of me and to really see me.
And a lot of it was like trying to fill
some sort of a gaping hole inside of me.
But I also realized this other piece around my
attachment patterns, where not being alone is not wanting
(18:32):
to be not alone in the sense of not
having a partner, but not alone.
Floating in space.
I imagine myself just floating in
space, completely alone in the abyss.
And it's that sense of not wanting to be alone.
(18:53):
I love living alone, and I love my life.
And I am obsessed with my friends, and I
have so much to look forward to, and I
have so much fun with my children.
And I love and I'm obsessed with
my children, and they delight me.
Everything is so full.
And I love my job, and I'm really
(19:15):
proud of the work that I do.
And so I know that I'm at a place where having
a partnership would only add to those things, should only add
to those things, should only add to those things.
And a lot of what I was looking for was
fun in partnership, for it to not feel too heavy.
(19:39):
And I want to be able to show my full
self, too, and to have those parts of me met.
And so I think the idea of not just floating in
the abyss is more healing work for me to do.
I don't really think I'm going to drop
into the abyss if I don't have partnership.
(20:02):
And I fully believe that there's no expiration
date on when we can find fulfilling partnerships.
I also don't know that I want traditional
monogamy, But I still know that something has
been missing for me in what I've Been
(20:24):
experiencing now, like in your dating lately.
Post divorce, in my dating lately.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I feel like I.
After leaving my marriage, I remember you said
to me, because I was up to something
that was not aligned with my values.
(20:44):
And I remember you saying to me,
like, I'll give you a year.
And then, like, you've really got to cut the shit.
Yeah, it's understandable now.
And like, there's a time limit on.
On this behavior.
And yeah.
I think about, like, the ways that we try to get
(21:06):
those needs met and in doing so, hurt ourselves sometimes.
Yeah.
And that's why we have best friends,
to call us honestly on our shit.
And when it's not to the extreme of being misaligned
with our values, we can hold the harm reductionist approach
(21:29):
with our friends where we let them do what they
need to do and let it all unfold.
And I'm here to talk with you about it all over
and over and over again, as much as you need.
And we're here to be completely honest with each
other and really help ourselves explore the depths.
My female friendships have been the container and backdrop for
(21:57):
all of this in a way that I wasn't.
I've had really beautiful friends my whole life,
but I wasn't leaning into it with honesty
when I was dating before being married.
And even in my marriage, I don't think I was being.
Well, I wasn't being honest with myself about some stuff,
(22:18):
and he wasn't being honest with either of us about
some stuff, but I wasn't being honest with my friends.
And that piece, I'm really trying to do differently
this time instead of like, oh, everything's great.
(22:43):
Because that, like, when I say that, what
I'm really saying is like, oh, I did
a good job picking, or I'm good.
Like, see me, I'm good, because this is good.
So I'm good.
I think that in my first iteration of dating, I
thought that I put my friends first, but I really
(23:05):
wasn't, even though I loved them so much and I
had so many incredible experiences with my friends, and I
really looked forward to plans with my friends.
There's something really different for me
in this iteration of dating in
how much I'm prioritizing my friendships.
(23:27):
Because I found after divorce that my friends are the
ones that were here to catch me and my friends
are the ones that will hopefully continue to be there.
Of course there are friendship
breakups, and that's devastating.
But I'm even just thinking in my head,
now we have our next big friend.
(23:50):
Thing with all the ladies is we have a
bunch of ladies going to see Lola Kirk, and
I am looking forward to that more than I'm
looking forward to any other upcoming event.
And it was the friends that we were hanging
out with, too, that made this weekend so magical.
(24:11):
So I'm really holding that
prioritization of the friendships.
And there is something very fun about
talking about your romances with your friends.
When I was first getting into the dating scene, we
(24:32):
had a group that would do apps and apps.
One of our friends is married in a
very healthy, wonderful marriage, and she wanted to
reinvigorate one of our other friends who was
pretty exhausted with dating and the app culture.
And now we know why.
When I was young and fun and, you know, a year
(24:55):
or two ago, I didn't understand why she felt burnt out.
I was just getting those dopamine hits.
Now I understand.
But it was the whole event of apps and apps.
That's what made the dating so fun. Yeah.
And it is fun to talk about.
It is fun to yap about.
I like what you're saying, though, that, like, the fun
(25:17):
part of that was feeling the love and the witness
in that way and the joy in that way.
It wasn't the men you were going on the
dates with that were fun or the men that
weren't going on dates and just appeared and then
disappeared as quickly as they came. The graveyard.
The graveyard.
(25:37):
It should be said that every time we
drive through your old neighborhood, which has a
cemetery, we blow kisses to all of our.
All of our past lovers. May they rest. All the men.
Yeah.
All the men who have passed away.
I think a lot about what a foreign
(25:59):
culture, app culture felt like to me. Yeah.
Because you had never done it right.
Like, before marriage. Okay.
And being a therapist and a huge nerd around attachment,
I really thought a lot about, and it felt almost
like an anthropological study for me of how much it's
(26:22):
changed how we relate to each other.
And there's something really beautiful in now we can.
We have more opportunity to connect with
more people than we ever have.
And with that being said, it's made humans
(26:43):
a lot more disposable, and there's a lot
of different poor behavior that happens.
I'm thinking of the first person that I connected with
on the apps and my first date that I went
on on the apps, and I had such high hopes
(27:04):
because this person was, like, asking me deep questions.
He had gone to therapy.
He was sending me voice notes.
He was like, you remind me of my mom.
We were talking about literature.
He was so into it and so excited.
And then we went on two dates and it was over.
(27:26):
And I was really sad about it, like in a
different way, because I had envisioned all the possibility of
what it could be without really knowing this person.
Yeah, yeah.
And I think that's something else that it's opened up
is it lets us project a lot onto people.
(27:50):
And so these shorter relationships can be even more
devastating because we've projected so much onto it and
we have such high hopes about it.
You do a really good job of trying to quell that
by not looking them up online, not getting extra information.
(28:12):
And I think that's part of that
out of necessity to rein it in.
Yeah, it is interesting.
The point that I'm at now, I
have a much different perspective on it.
And something has shifted inside of me where I can
still hold my ability for the depths of connection.
(28:35):
Like, I still feel like I very much have that in me.
And I have a much more
nonchalant approach and perspective on things.
Of course, of course, of course I'm harm reductioning.
So this won't even be necessary soon because
before you know it, I'll be sober.
But I just approach it with a we'll see attitude.
(29:01):
And I'm pretty okay, no matter the outcome.
But I still leave a possibility that if somebody wants to
connect and open up with me, I'm open to that.
And I can still have vulnerable,
authentic connections without getting too hurt.
(29:25):
I think I now appreciate each connection for what it is
to hold the humanity of it and to protect myself.
I think I'm learning how important it is
to, you know, like Casey Musgrave says, some
people are givers and some are takers.
(29:46):
And I'm learning how important it is to, yeah, have.
Have those protections, have those energetic and
emotional boundaries where we're not so porous.
Tara told me.
I don't think I told you this.
Tara told me that when she was working
on my heart chakra, she said, I can.
(30:08):
It's bruised, but it's not broken. And it's still.
She was like, you're still so heart wide open.
And I feel that.
That I'm like, I'm a woman scorned, but I'm also
still a believer and yeah, still open to it.
(30:30):
Although again, sober right now.
But yeah.
And I think that those boundaries help us.
Help us stay with ourselves and help us
to not have shattered hearts that aren't.
That we then close.
I don't want to be a bitter, jaded,
(30:53):
closed off person and that's part of that's
my job, part of that's my work.
It's not, you know, these men who do X, Y and Z.
It's what I'm allowing, what I'm tolerating, what I'm continuing
once I know that something's not good for me.
Yeah, I always think about that meme that
(31:14):
said, how do you know you're in love?
And it says, I start off in love
and then I subtract as I go.
And I think that's the way I show up.
Heart wide open.
I'm so open to possibility and such a lover girl.
And I think what I've been shifting in my protection
(31:37):
of myself but still holding that open heartedness is paying
attention to what I'm receiving for from people and being
really honest with myself about what I'm receiving and not
putting the cart before the horse in my own feelings
(31:59):
or imaginings of what something could be.
Because I'm sure if we looked up in our
text messages, the amount of times that I've said
I'm in love, it would be wild.
In fact, I believe just a week or two ago you checked in
(32:19):
on how a date was going and I said, I'm in love.
And then an hour later I said, never, never mind.
When you were talking earlier about like the like dating
to fill that hole, I was just flashing on Erika
(32:43):
Jayne Girardi saying to Tom, whenever he said I'm proud
of you about her getting Chicago and she was ugly,
crying and saying, that's all I've ever wanted.
Like, yeah.
Oh, I feel that.
I feel that so much. Yeah.
And yet we can be proud of ourselves.
(33:03):
Yeah, I'm proud of each other.
I'm proud of each other and have amazing,
fulfilling experiences that are romantic for ourselves.
Like, I've really shifted towards romanticizing my life
and it brings me so much joy.
(33:25):
My most romantic date that I've been on in
the past year or two was when I made
a reservation for myself, a one person reservation.
And I went to book people and got the Britney
Spears memoir and I had a glass of red wine
and my little Italian dinner and I read it at
(33:47):
the bar and the people next to me asked about
it and I did a little back and forth and
I was just engrossed in this memoir and funnily enough,
Justin Timberlake, just another man who's disappointed us and reminds
us why men can be disappointing and embarrassing.
(34:09):
I feel called to read Shep's text message.
Please, please, let's give a lay of the land so
in one of our shows, Southern Charm on the Bravo
network, Shep has been a known fuckboy for years.
(34:30):
This man has fucked everyone in
Charleston and treated women horribly.
We've seen him in a few long
term relationships and it never goes well.
And he's also said to not make sure that women orgasm.
Yeah, that's not a.
(34:52):
Which is not a concern of his. That's not a.
Yeah, it's not something that he's.
So Shep this season was dating this
woman, Sienna, who's this insanely gorgeous model.
Miss Universe from The Bahamas or Ms.
Bahamas competing in Miss
(35:12):
Universe, something like that.
And we saw their relationship play out.
Apparently they were never official.
But all of it culminated on a cast trip where
Sienna was clearly disgusted with this man, didn't want him
to be there, and was on her a little bit.
(35:35):
A little bit.
You don't have to keep being here, girl.
Just go.
She did, though, she saw herself out.
And I think the trip was booked with Bravo.
And maybe, you know, not to break the fourth
wall, but I think some things were scheduled.
She had a call time.
She had some call times.
She was paid for her. Yeah. Her time. Yeah.
(35:59):
But anyway, I think it could be healing for everyone to
hear a really embarrassing text sent by an ex fuckboy.
So please.
Okay, let's end here.
Good morning, Sienna.
Listen, I love seeing you and no one else.
No one.
But I'm not going to try to convince
(36:20):
somebody they love me for three days, especially
when I know deep down that they do.
Here's hoping you understand my
feelings and exalt them.
I don't think I remember the exalt them part. What?
Okay, I just don't feel this way ever.
I know that you agree and feel a
(36:41):
lot of what I do because I've heard
it from your perfect little freckled lips.
And those around us can say and think what
they will, but we will have the last laugh
and we'll have love, laughter, and everything that matters.
Okay, my TED Talk is over.
And that's our show.
Good luck, everyone out there.
(37:03):
We love you.
We hope that you're healing through
relationships and we'll catch you soon. Bye. Bye. Bye.
Thank you so much for joining us.
If you liked what you heard, please subscribe and
consider leaving a review if you have already.
Thank you. You can find us on
all all socials @thehillingjourney.
(37:23):
You can find us online at
www.thehillingjourney.com and you can shoot us
an email at thehillingjourney@gmail.com. talk soon.
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