March 14, 2025 • 41 mins
As therapists, we know feelings are best felt and the painful ones often require extra support. Between our banter and bullsh*t, we are sharing some hacks for getting through different parts of grief. No, we don't subscribe to the 5 stages of grief. We talk about the beginning when everything is impossible, the part when you start feeling your feet on the ground again, and the part where you start grappling with your new reality.
As Rev Meg, a hiller of our past, told us: some people trudge through this quicksand, you two are dancing through it.
Visit The Hilling Journey to learn more about our podcast and @thehillingjourney on Instagram.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Foreign.
We are licensed therapists, but
we probably aren't your therapists.
While we may share helpful information about mental
health, it is best to form your individual
(00:20):
care plan with your own mental health professional.
If we are your therapist. Hi.
While this podcast shares nuggets of wisdom about mental
health, we are sharing many pieces of who we
are outside of the therap room and doing a
lot of yapping about nonsense, our own healing work,
and some about sex and dating.
If you feel listening to this podcast may
interfere with your work in therapy, please refrain
(00:42):
from doing so while we're on the subject.
Any notes from our dating lives have been changed
to protect the privacy of our partners and ourselves.
Thanks for listening.
Welcome to the Hilling Journey podcast.
I'm Ilyse Kennedy.
And I'm Lindsay Camp.
And this is the podcast where two
therapist besties talk about their healing journeys,
interview healers who have helped along the
(01:04):
way, and others on their healing journeys.
Hi, Lindsay.
Hi, Ilyse.
How are you, my friend?
Oh, you know, pretty good. Pretty good.
I'm excited to talk about hacks, and I don't mean
the new season coming back, but I'm very excited.
I saw some memes today of the
(01:25):
new hack season, and it looks hilarious. Oh, I did, too.
I want to say that I saw.
What's our gal's name? What's her name?
Anyways, a stripper was in her face.
I believe a stripper was in her face.
Absolutely.
But we are going to be talking about our
hacks for when you're in the midst of grief.
But I feel like these can also work for adhd.
(01:48):
Absolutely.
Which makes sense because we're ADHD girlies.
I'm undiagnosed, but I think it's pretty clear.
Probably. Probably.
And grief girlies.
And grief girlies. Yeah.
So I'm thinking that we can go back and forth.
I know that we each kind of prepped a list,
and I was thinking we could go back and forth.
(02:09):
I think that there are different stages of
grief, and in the stages of grief, there
will be different hacks that are necessary.
I noticed that in my first stage
of grief, I was extremely dissociated.
I remember I was in an IFS training
(02:31):
and I didn't take in anything really.
I was so dissociated.
Nothing was coming through.
I was having a very hard time doing the
practice sessions, and usually I can put it on
for a training, but I could not.
So my first hack would be don't try to take in
(02:52):
complex information when you're in the initial stages of grief.
And don't waste your money on a training.
Lesson learned. Lesson learned.
I could barely read an email. I can't even.
I can't believe that you were
getting yourself to a training.
(03:12):
It was virtual, so I was
actually doing it from bed, which. Good point.
That's another great hack.
Be in bed anytime you can.
If you can do a training from bed and position
your camera so nobody can tell you're in bed or
even just be in bed and give no fucks.
I think there were periods of time where
(03:34):
I was in bed without the camera view,
trying to hide that I was in bed.
I was laying down, doing my practice sessions.
As we've talked about before, maybe.
Actually we haven't talked about this, but Queen icon,
legend Casey Musgraves recorded an entire album in bed.
So my second hack, which I'm sorry for not
(03:57):
going back and forth, but it was an offshoot.
Lay down at all times and do
anything you can possibly from your bed.
You know that I was getting horizontal at all times.
Gotta be, gotta be.
Okay, mine is okay. What's yours?
Mine is in the early.
This one's for the early stages too.
(04:19):
And what I'm about to say is likely not good
for the environment for your body, but in the thick
of it, baby wipes, makeup remover wipes, dry shampoo, mouthwash.
That's all I'll say about that.
(04:41):
Do you want to say any more?
Do you think, do you think they get it?
I think they get it. Okay.
I think they get it. Yeah.
Yeah, we'll leave it there.
It's hard to get in the shower when you're horizontal.
Which brings us to my next hack. You're welcome.
(05:01):
Baths.
Now, baths are not just a hack, but
it is a way to stay horizontal.
Baths are my self care regimen.
I know I've talked about it before.
I'll say it again and again.
Baths are not good for the environment either.
(05:22):
So we'll name that.
But they are great for your body,
they are great for staying horizontal, they
are great for regulating your nervous system.
And it's an incredible ritual to have.
Now if you want to go all out and really do it
as a hack versus the self care, you can get one of
(05:43):
those wooden stretchy things that you can put on the bath.
You can have your computer there, you can do your reading,
you can really do anything you need in the bath.
And you can certainly take a bath instead of a shower.
So if you want to go a step
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further than just the baby wipes and dry
shampoo, get yourself to the Bath and linger.
Stay in the bath for a long time.
I'm gonna move us off of the horizontal theme
unless you have anything else in the horizontal space.
I'm not loving the idea of standing up, but let's.
(06:26):
Let's rise.
Let's rise.
Well, I was also kind of baiting you a little
bit with a joke there about in our divorce grief.
There's also been some
horizontal healing that's happened. You're not.
You're not biting on that, are you?
(06:46):
I'm not. I don't get it.
Do you mean sexual? Yes.
Keep this in.
Yes.
Some horizontal healing may or may not have accord.
Occurred.
I'm embarrassed.
Some horizontal healing may or may not have occurred.
(07:07):
Thank you for bringing it.
Bringing it to the public sphere.
Absolutely. Okay.
So something that I have really leaned on
in my grief around my mom's death is
growing and nourishing and nurturing things.
So I've been doing a lot of yard work.
(07:29):
I've been doing a lot of gardening, and I
also have done chickens, starting from baby chicks.
And every single day, there's something different and
new about a garden and about chickens.
Like just yesterday, my little chicks started to get
their tail feathers, and it was so exciting.
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And I've got little bitty sprouts popping up in
the garden bed, and it truly fills me with
so much delight, especially in the morning.
Like, whenever I'm going to let my dogs out, I do
a quick check on everything, and it just makes me smile.
And I get so elated to see
new growth and to see things changing.
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And there's so much wrapped up in that.
I also really love, like, doubling up, like,
bang for your buck on these hacks.
And so being outside, being with nature, moving my body, all
of that just really works for me and my grief.
I was just talking to a client earlier today
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about how powerful our relationship with plants are.
I think there are a few levels
that plants and nature are really helpful.
I think that it hits on a spiritual level.
And in thinking about it as a hack for
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moving through grief, there's the moving your body piece.
But it also energizes you.
And I found that just like a plant, sometimes I need
to sit outside in the sun to get my work done.
Or what I started doing was sitting outside in
(09:14):
the mornings as I could to have my coffee.
And sometimes I would listen to music or whatever
it would be, but I would also listen to
what I call the song of the trees.
And just listening to the breeze go through the
trees is so grounding and Just take your laptop
(09:36):
out and let the sun energize you and listen
to the natural soundtrack around you.
I guess we're not done with horizontal because hammocks
have also been a big part of our hilling.
Now, if I'm doing work, usually I'm
sitting upright on the outdoor sofa.
(09:59):
I can't get the work done laying down in the hammock.
But I do get in the hammock.
I figured out like a propped up
situation with my hammock where I can. Yeah.
Because it's hard when you're fully reclined.
Absolutely.
Really making it work out there.
Making it work.
(10:21):
Okay, what do you have to follow?
My growing things.
So something that was really important to
me was building a social calendar.
And that helped to energize me for
getting my work done as well.
When I have more in my calendar, then I only
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have certain times that I can get things done.
So it would help me know, okay,
I'm going to dinner with this friend.
So that's first of all, not isolating myself.
It's being with people and
that's very energizing for me.
Or I'm going to this concert or whatever it may be.
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And having my calendar so that I wasn't alone
was really important to me in the beginning.
I am what I call kind
of an extroverted introvert, I think.
So I really thrive on my alone time.
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But I also really love being around
people and I can put it on.
And so making sure I was spending a
lot of time with friends was really important.
I have a similar one that I've
had different grief buddies throughout this.
And what was really important for me when I,
(11:52):
when I first lost my mom was leaning on
the friends of mine who've also lost a parent.
And having that, that support was huge. The.
The other piece to that is to be able to have some.
It was really important to me to have somebody.
(12:12):
And you were one of these people that
I could just text and say, I'm fucking.
It's a bad grief day.
Or the grief is really big today, or whatever it was.
And being able to say that out loud and name it
and have that just held with love was such a big
piece of my healing is such a big piece of it.
(12:37):
Yeah.
I think when we're in deep grief, it
can feel like we need to hide ourselves
away or we can't show those authentic emotions.
And actually it's so important that we do
let it out that we find those authentic
(12:57):
spaces and those authentic friendships where we can
just name exactly where we're at.
And it's just met. Yeah.
And I think if you're that friend for somebody,
you don't even have to say much back.
You can just hold it with that person.
(13:19):
But I think we have to sort of test
who we can share that stuff with so that
we know that we have those people.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Okay, what's your next one?
So it was really hard for me to run
a business when I was deep in my grief.
(13:40):
You don't say.
So this is a two parter. Okay.
The first is that I was really glad that
I had sort of built my business to run
on its own the way I built my business.
I had done a lot of work on the front end.
And then I was at a point where I had an
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incredible admin assistant shout out Celestie, who could really take over
for me when I didn't have a lot of energy.
And having the business pieces running sort of on
their own or having a system for it really
allowed me to put all my energy towards meeting
(14:24):
with clients, because you can't fake meeting with clients.
And it was really important to me that I was
in a space where I was still cognizant enough to
meet with clients and do my job well.
(14:45):
The admin stuff is what really sucked. A lot of energy.
I was not as good about responding to emails. I was.
I described it as I felt like a ghost at the practice.
Like, I felt like I was really disappointed in my
lack of support for my associates during that time.
(15:06):
And I wished I had more energy. And.
And I'm glad that I was saying no and not
pushing myself when I didn't have the energy so that
I could put my energy toward the clients.
Now the other piece is that being
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a business gal, I don't think.
I think we're denouncing boss babe now.
I think people are denouncing it.
So being a business gal, I would get these manic winds.
Like, I would get a little
burst of manic energy, likely anxiety.
(15:49):
And I would just be like, okay, well, we're
doing goody bags for south by Southwest and we're
gonna get branded materials and you guys are gonna
go pass them out at showcases.
And so we would do like a marketing day.
And I had like earplugs and stickers and I had
the associates pass them out at south by Southwest.
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So, like, knowing when you're having the dips and just letting
yourself be in the dip and rest as much as you
can and then taking advantage of the manic wins.
However, when they do blow.
I remember there were a few times that I would screenshot
an email that I had sent off and I would say
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to you, did this sound bitchy or something like that?
And you would say, oof.
When I'm about to send out something like this,
I usually run it by my admin first.
So taking advantage of the manic wins when you
can, but not letting them blow you away. Mm. Mm.
(16:58):
Beautifully said.
Yeah, that admin piece was so, yeah, shout out Sammie
and Celestie and the rest of our teams that really
picked up a lot of slack when we were.
But yeah, I think that leaning on the supports
that are available and making saying yes when people
ask, what if they can do something for you?
(17:20):
Having I remember hearing this hack a while
back, like having a little menu of things
that people could do for you that would
be helpful when you're really struggling.
Give somebody something to do and
it's something you've already approved of. Etc.
So that's an extra little hack
that I'm tacking on to the.
To the admin piece.
I love that.
I also really loved when you saying no is
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one of my big, big hacks for grief.
Going ahead and just saying no, knowing that I'll likely feel
not up for it, and just going ahead and saying no
really saved me all of that anxiety that build up.
That building anxiety of like, am I
going to be okay for this?
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Am I going to have enough energy?
How will they feel if I cancel last minute?
I just went ahead and scrapped all of that
and just said no to a lot of stuff.
I remember when we were both in the thick of
things and I was really glad that we were in
it together and we had similar businesses because we could
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talk about this together and we fully got it.
And we were talking about how we were disappointed
with ourselves, feeling like we weren't able to put
as much into our businesses as we once did.
It felt very disorienting for me because I am such a
(18:46):
hard worker and I do put so much into my business.
And I remember saying to you, we're not the
same people that we were before this happened.
And so the people who built these businesses are
not the same people that we are now.
And we have a completely different energy for it.
(19:09):
And I think about how grief
changes you in so many ways.
It literally changes your brain,
it changes your nervous system.
When you go through really intense
grief, it really changes you.
And that meant for us that
it really changed our capacity.
(19:31):
And it was getting to know what our new
capacity was and what Our new trajectory was, I
feel like I'm finally finding my footing again.
I'm finally finding my little hustle again
and feeling good about doing business stuff
and feeling excited about it.
(19:51):
But for a long time, I couldn't think
about any new projects or anything like that.
It was just too much and
I just didn't have the capacity.
And knowing that that was okay.
Yeah, I started crying just then because
I got brought back to that moment.
(20:13):
And what you said to me in that when you said
we're not the same people that we were when we started
these group practices and built these group practices was such.
It was such validation of the reality that
I was in that I wasn't quite facing.
Like, I kept beating myself up
and wondering, like, why can't
(20:34):
Why can't I send a fucking email?
You know, why can't I do this? Why can't I do that?
Like, there were.
The language I would use is that I was underwater.
And there were so many times where I was
sending an email saying, hey, I think I'm coming
up for a little bit of air.
Like, let's try to get a meeting going
or whatever it may be with the team.
(20:57):
Yeah, there was such a through loss.
There's such an identity change and we are different.
We are different people than we were
before these losses and before these changes.
Yeah, even some pieces I never got back.
Like, I kept trying to get back, even until
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this very day, my spark for social media again.
Because social media was really
how I marketed my business.
And at the high point of it, I
was getting a lot of speaking opportunities and
I was having a lot of viral content.
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And then it didn't feel fun anymore and
it didn't feel like a creative outlet and
it didn't give me the same thing.
I even posted a little reel today where I said, I'm
just tired and I don't really like social media anymore.
I don't think I'm going to do it.
You can find me on this podcast because it
(22:02):
feels better to do long form content rather than
try to make these little social media posts that
you never know what's going to happen with it.
It's hard to get all the nuance
in a tiny little quick reel. It's hard.
(22:23):
Hello, I'm Lindsay Camp.
And when I'm not on this podcast, yapping
away with my bestie, I'm a therapist running
a group practice called Austin Teen therapy.
For over 10 years, our clinicians have specialized
in working with young people and their families.
And though we're based in Austin, we
see folks virtually all over Texas.
If you or a teen in your life
(22:44):
is in need of some support with anxiety,
depression, disordered eating, trauma school stuff, you name
it, come check us out@www.austinteentherapy.com.
you can also find us on Instagram @austinteentherapy for helpful parenting tips, psycho education on
those teen years, community, and so much more.
(23:06):
Moving Part Psychotherapy is a group therapy
practice located in South Austin, Texas.
We offer in person services for those in
Austin and virtual services for clients throughout Texas.
We see children through adults
specializing in trauma recovery.
Our clinicians are trained in trauma modalities such
as EMDR and internal family systems therapy.
(23:27):
To learn more or get connected with a therapist
today, visit www.movingpartspsychotherapy.com or email hellovingpartspsychotherapy.com
okay, I guess
kind of still in that same vein, Writing has
been one of my hacks that to give everything
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that's churning in my brain and in my body
a place to land has helped me move through
a lot of stuff.
And they're as simple as like little notes in my phone.
I've really loved the tactile pen to paper lately, but
writing has just been a way for me to easily
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and fairly quickly release and move through and process.
It really makes me laugh about the Notes app too.
I agree.
I will put pen to paper and do some notes in my phone.
But then when I look, when I look,
(24:37):
I see from our Valentine's Day dinner once,
exclamation, exclamation, exclamation, exclamation Glen Hansard period.
And then it's like random notes for episodes.
Of course that's a universal experience.
Is having a manifest podcast guest.
(25:01):
Yeah.
Oh, my crush list.
My physical crush list.
Absolutely hot groceries.
Anyway, the Notes app is a dark and gorgeous place.
Also from a practical standpoint, my like we've talked, we've
said this several times about grief changing your brain and
(25:21):
my cognitive skills were shot and my memory, I used
to have such a solid memory and it that got
wrecked in these last couple of years and so writing
things down has literally become so important for me because
I can't remember shit anymore.
Yeah, that's very fair.
(25:42):
I have a firm memory for
things that I'm excited about, sure.
But not for things that I'm not excited about.
So I keep my digital calendar, my paper calendar and
then the notes app is usually for random things.
(26:03):
And often these notes never get looked at again.
No, no.
Because they make no goddamn sense.
They make no Goddamn sense.
No goddamn sense.
What you got for us?
My next one. This.
I wish I could remember the author.
(26:24):
So this is not from me, but I always think about this.
There was a meme a few years ago that
was really for parents and it said, we all
hold so many balls in the air.
Some of those balls are glass and
some of those balls are plastic.
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The plastic balls will bounce and not break if
you drop them, but the glass balls will break.
And so I have really been a ball balancer.
I am just balancing balls.
(27:08):
So I am pretty good at keeping my home straight.
And I have my routine for getting chores done.
For dishes, I listen to a podcast.
That's my only podcast.
Time is when I do the dishes for laundry,
(27:30):
I can watch a TV show for folding.
And then I keep baskets, like nice looking baskets,
so I can throw toys that are left around
in the baskets so that they're not out.
And so I don't get overwhelmed with the sensory piece.
And then there are things that I just really let go.
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For me, I like my home to be filled with play
and when we're able to play, it makes everybody feel safer.
So I'm not really a hound on my
kids for cleaning up, like while they're in
the midst of playing or right after.
(28:15):
Of course, they're not great
about cleaning up in general.
We do our best and we kind of keep
things in their sectors so that it does look
pretty fine and it's easy to put things away.
And then I think a lot about the glass balls and the
plastic balls for like time I spend with my kids and what's
(28:38):
important to them, what will make an impact on them.
Showing up for things makes a big impact on them.
Anytime I can go to lunch with them or I
can do some sort of quality time thing with them.
Those are definitely glass balls.
Or if I say that I'm going to do something with them,
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I have to make sure that I follow through and do it.
The plastic balls.
I had more plastic balls around work stuff.
Things for clients were always glass balls.
And I feel bad that things for associates sometimes
(29:23):
became plastic balls because people would be okay.
As long as it wasn't urgent, people would be okay.
And unfortunately, my notes became a plastic ball.
And luckily, simple practice will remind you
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how many notes you have to do.
And it's terrifying.
And so after you have to do an ungodly amount
of notes, you will not make that mistake again.
When you see a large number in simple practice
of the notes that you haven't gotten done, you
won't let it be a plastic ball again.
I really love that, that language of plastic
(30:05):
balls and glass balls, it helps really put
things in perspective of like what?
Like we have limited time, we
have limited energy, what matters.
Totally.
So for me, one of my huge grief
healing hacks is my relationship with birds.
(30:26):
And again, I really like these ones for me that
are like hitting, checking a lot of boxes, especially because
again, time and energy are limited when you're in it.
And so really finding things that check a lot of
boxes, meet a lot of needs feels important to me.
(30:47):
So for me, being with the birds means being outside
in nature, slowing down and giving me a singular focus.
So when I was really in the thick of
it, even still now I feel really overwhelmed with
(31:07):
everything that's going on in the world, in our
communities and in my own experience.
And so being able to pull my focus into
something that is just right here, right now, right
in front of me has been super, super helpful.
And again, it's multisensory.
There's the sight, there's the sound, there's the
(31:29):
air and the temperature and there's also, it's.
It's a new experience every time.
There's so many little details to
notice and delight in about birds.
I remember I said to my dad not too long
ago, or no, this was a while back, I was
like, so other than like cardinals and blue jays, like
(31:50):
most birds are just like brown and gray, right?
And he looked at me like I was from another planet.
He was like, no.
And since then like I've.
There are so many colorful birds and they're so beautiful and
I just crack up every time, like, how are you?
How are you this color?
Like how are you neon orange, little
(32:13):
vermilion, like what's going on here?
It's crazy.
So finding something that is multi sensory, that
is familiar but different and changes and something
that like just brings delight and something.
I liked what you said about your aerial silks,
(32:37):
that you had no skin in the game.
Like I'm not like this isn't a competition in any way.
This isn't something that brings up any anxiety.
For me, just going and sitting outside and being
with the birds is healing on so many levels.
I love that so much and I will bounce off of that.
(33:01):
I know that your self care is more sitting and being.
I schedule my self care so I came up with
a self care regimen and I've really stuck to it.
(33:21):
Especially as a mom.
We do not have a lot of time for
self care and we don't make it a priority.
Usually it's definitely something that
becomes a plastic ball.
When I was in the thick of things and I needed to
be there for my kids and be there for my clients and
run a business, I had to make self care a glass ball.
(33:47):
So I started doing my nail art.
Yeah, she did.
And so I keep up with my nails every two weeks.
That's a big part of my self care.
I did the aerial silks.
I have my personal trainer
(34:08):
therapy every week, group therapy.
This summer, when I went through another rough patch,
I got my schedule down, which I have the
privilege to get my schedule down luckily.
But I literally made my schedule
(34:28):
around going to Barton Springs.
And I would go to Barton Springs as
many days a week as I could.
I did bring my laptop a few times, which
is sacrilegious, but I would bring my laptop or
a book and make sure I took an extensive
(34:50):
dip in the water to regulate my nervous system.
Take in the sun.
And I think it has a really
nice social aspect of it too.
You're not in isolation when you're at
Barton Springs because of the community there.
So the self care makes sure that I uphold all
(35:13):
the rest of my life responsibilities and it helps me
to show up for my kids and my clients.
And I got to see that in a completely different
way because I thought I was doing self care before
my intensive period of grief, but I now know I
(35:34):
was not doing it to the extent that I needed.
And I'm glad that even though I'm in
a different phase with everything, I'm still keeping
up on the intensive self care.
Again, this conversation about, like things moving from plastic balls
to glass balls that yeah, sometimes our self care has
to be a plastic ball because of whatever reason, and
(35:58):
then sometimes it has to be a glass ball.
And knowing when it's changing and
moving with that is huge.
Huge, huge, huge.
Okay, I am going to add that one of
my healing hacks in grief was dancing is dancing.
(36:19):
So this one again is.
It checks a lot of boxes.
I like to dance alone when I'm cooking and
I really love to dance in the safety of
our homes and also out in community.
I also really love to shake my ass out somewhere.
(36:43):
Really.
Because I haven't been able to get you there.
I know, I know.
So the.
Would love to, would love to, would love to.
But dancing has been so
cathartic in an uninhibited way.
Let my body move as it feels
(37:04):
it needs to move in that moment.
Yeah, that's just been crazy, Crazy healing.
How many More do you have? I'm out. You're fresh out?
How about you?
I was just gonna add that we've both found animals to
be a bit of a healing hack in our grief.
(37:26):
I know that you got yourself some divorce
dogs, and I got myself a kitty and
chickens and having things to tend to.
Again, kind of similar as gardening,
having little critters to tend to.
And also like the science behind, you know,
(37:47):
oxytocin, when we snuggle an animal, huge.
So if you can add some.
Add some animals to your life. Yeah.
I knew that one of my dogs was going to not
make it much longer, and so I wanted to get a
dog to train her while she was still or a dog
(38:11):
for her to train while she was still alive.
But after she passed away, I got a second dog.
And there's a beautiful book on grief by Martin
Prechtel called the Smell of Rain on Dust.
And in that book, Prechtel talks about
(38:36):
how animals can help us through grief.
There's a piece of it that's a
little fucked that makes me feel bad.
But he says usually when a pet
passes away, we replace that pet.
And so that new pet holds all our grief for the
pet that passed away, which does make me feel bad.
(38:59):
And he said that's why animals don't live very long,
because when they get sick, it's from our grief Jesus.
So that's tougher to hear.
Jesus reading us for filth.
And he does have some beautiful insight about
(39:21):
how healing pets can be within grief.
Even thinking about placing your hand on
your pet and allowing your pet to
help you regulate your nervous system.
My dogs sleep with me every night
so I don't have to sleep alone.
(39:41):
There's just something really beautiful about the way that they
care for us as much as we care for them. Yeah. Yeah.
The chickens helped me so much with
my nervous system through, like they're.
They're erratic and it spikes my anxiety and so
(40:02):
working to breathe through every time I'm with them.
Same with.
The same with my cat.
Like, she's a little crazy and it can like heighten my.
Heighten my anxiety a bit.
And so clock noticing that and breathing through it
and working myself back down has been really like.
(40:26):
I just feel like, yeah, I'm co regulating
with these little critters and I love it. I love it.
Well, I think that's a wrap on our healing hacks.
Thank you for listening and we'll heal together soon.
Bye. Bye. Bye.
Thank you so much for joining us.
If you liked what you heard, please subscribe and
(40:47):
consider leaving a review if you have already.
Thank you.
You can find us on all socials at the Healing Journey.
You can find us online at
www.thehealingjourney.com and you can shoot us
an email at thehealingjourneymail.com Talk soon.
Foreign.
We are licensed therapists, but
we probably aren't your therapists.
While we may share helpful information about mental
health, it is best to form your individual
(00:20):
care plan with your own mental health professional.
If we are your therapist. Hi.
While this podcast shares nuggets of wisdom about mental
health, we are sharing many pieces of who we
are outside of the therap room and doing a
lot of yapping about nonsense, our own healing work,
and some about sex and dating.
If you feel listening to this podcast may
interfere with your work in therapy, please refrain
(00:42):
from doing so while we're on the subject.
Any notes from our dating lives have been changed
to protect the privacy of our partners and ourselves.
Thanks for listening.
Welcome to the Hilling Journey podcast.
I'm Ilyse Kennedy.
And I'm Lindsay Camp.
And this is the podcast where two
therapist besties talk about their healing journeys,
interview healers who have helped along the
(01:04):
way, and others on their healing journeys.
Hi, Lindsay.
Hi, Ilyse.
How are you, my friend?
Oh, you know, pretty good. Pretty good.
I'm excited to talk about hacks, and I don't mean
the new season coming back, but I'm very excited.
I saw some memes today of the
(01:25):
new hack season, and it looks hilarious. Oh, I did, too.
I want to say that I saw.
What's our gal's name? What's her name?
Anyways, a stripper was in her face.
I believe a stripper was in her face.
Absolutely.
But we are going to be talking about our
hacks for when you're in the midst of grief.
But I feel like these can also work for adhd.
(01:48):
Absolutely.
Which makes sense because we're ADHD girlies.
I'm undiagnosed, but I think it's pretty clear.
Probably. Probably.
And grief girlies.
And grief girlies. Yeah.
So I'm thinking that we can go back and forth.
I know that we each kind of prepped a list,
and I was thinking we could go back and forth.
(02:09):
I think that there are different stages of
grief, and in the stages of grief, there
will be different hacks that are necessary.
I noticed that in my first stage
of grief, I was extremely dissociated.
I remember I was in an IFS training
(02:31):
and I didn't take in anything really.
I was so dissociated.
Nothing was coming through.
I was having a very hard time doing the
practice sessions, and usually I can put it on
for a training, but I could not.
So my first hack would be don't try to take in
(02:52):
complex information when you're in the initial stages of grief.
And don't waste your money on a training.
Lesson learned. Lesson learned.
I could barely read an email. I can't even.
I can't believe that you were
getting yourself to a training.
(03:12):
It was virtual, so I was
actually doing it from bed, which. Good point.
That's another great hack.
Be in bed anytime you can.
If you can do a training from bed and position
your camera so nobody can tell you're in bed or
even just be in bed and give no fucks.
I think there were periods of time where
(03:34):
I was in bed without the camera view,
trying to hide that I was in bed.
I was laying down, doing my practice sessions.
As we've talked about before, maybe.
Actually we haven't talked about this, but Queen icon,
legend Casey Musgraves recorded an entire album in bed.
So my second hack, which I'm sorry for not
(03:57):
going back and forth, but it was an offshoot.
Lay down at all times and do
anything you can possibly from your bed.
You know that I was getting horizontal at all times.
Gotta be, gotta be.
Okay, mine is okay. What's yours?
Mine is in the early.
This one's for the early stages too.
(04:19):
And what I'm about to say is likely not good
for the environment for your body, but in the thick
of it, baby wipes, makeup remover wipes, dry shampoo, mouthwash.
That's all I'll say about that.
(04:41):
Do you want to say any more?
Do you think, do you think they get it?
I think they get it. Okay.
I think they get it. Yeah.
Yeah, we'll leave it there.
It's hard to get in the shower when you're horizontal.
Which brings us to my next hack. You're welcome.
(05:01):
Baths.
Now, baths are not just a hack, but
it is a way to stay horizontal.
Baths are my self care regimen.
I know I've talked about it before.
I'll say it again and again.
Baths are not good for the environment either.
(05:22):
So we'll name that.
But they are great for your body,
they are great for staying horizontal, they
are great for regulating your nervous system.
And it's an incredible ritual to have.
Now if you want to go all out and really do it
as a hack versus the self care, you can get one of
(05:43):
those wooden stretchy things that you can put on the bath.
You can have your computer there, you can do your reading,
you can really do anything you need in the bath.
And you can certainly take a bath instead of a shower.
So if you want to go a step
(06:03):
further than just the baby wipes and dry
shampoo, get yourself to the Bath and linger.
Stay in the bath for a long time.
I'm gonna move us off of the horizontal theme
unless you have anything else in the horizontal space.
I'm not loving the idea of standing up, but let's.
(06:26):
Let's rise.
Let's rise.
Well, I was also kind of baiting you a little
bit with a joke there about in our divorce grief.
There's also been some
horizontal healing that's happened. You're not.
You're not biting on that, are you?
(06:46):
I'm not. I don't get it.
Do you mean sexual? Yes.
Keep this in.
Yes.
Some horizontal healing may or may not have accord.
Occurred.
I'm embarrassed.
Some horizontal healing may or may not have occurred.
(07:07):
Thank you for bringing it.
Bringing it to the public sphere.
Absolutely. Okay.
So something that I have really leaned on
in my grief around my mom's death is
growing and nourishing and nurturing things.
So I've been doing a lot of yard work.
(07:29):
I've been doing a lot of gardening, and I
also have done chickens, starting from baby chicks.
And every single day, there's something different and
new about a garden and about chickens.
Like just yesterday, my little chicks started to get
their tail feathers, and it was so exciting.
(07:51):
And I've got little bitty sprouts popping up in
the garden bed, and it truly fills me with
so much delight, especially in the morning.
Like, whenever I'm going to let my dogs out, I do
a quick check on everything, and it just makes me smile.
And I get so elated to see
new growth and to see things changing.
(08:12):
And there's so much wrapped up in that.
I also really love, like, doubling up, like,
bang for your buck on these hacks.
And so being outside, being with nature, moving my body, all
of that just really works for me and my grief.
I was just talking to a client earlier today
(08:33):
about how powerful our relationship with plants are.
I think there are a few levels
that plants and nature are really helpful.
I think that it hits on a spiritual level.
And in thinking about it as a hack for
(08:54):
moving through grief, there's the moving your body piece.
But it also energizes you.
And I found that just like a plant, sometimes I need
to sit outside in the sun to get my work done.
Or what I started doing was sitting outside in
(09:14):
the mornings as I could to have my coffee.
And sometimes I would listen to music or whatever
it would be, but I would also listen to
what I call the song of the trees.
And just listening to the breeze go through the
trees is so grounding and Just take your laptop
(09:36):
out and let the sun energize you and listen
to the natural soundtrack around you.
I guess we're not done with horizontal because hammocks
have also been a big part of our hilling.
Now, if I'm doing work, usually I'm
sitting upright on the outdoor sofa.
(09:59):
I can't get the work done laying down in the hammock.
But I do get in the hammock.
I figured out like a propped up
situation with my hammock where I can. Yeah.
Because it's hard when you're fully reclined.
Absolutely.
Really making it work out there.
Making it work.
(10:21):
Okay, what do you have to follow?
My growing things.
So something that was really important to
me was building a social calendar.
And that helped to energize me for
getting my work done as well.
When I have more in my calendar, then I only
(10:45):
have certain times that I can get things done.
So it would help me know, okay,
I'm going to dinner with this friend.
So that's first of all, not isolating myself.
It's being with people and
that's very energizing for me.
Or I'm going to this concert or whatever it may be.
(11:08):
And having my calendar so that I wasn't alone
was really important to me in the beginning.
I am what I call kind
of an extroverted introvert, I think.
So I really thrive on my alone time.
(11:29):
But I also really love being around
people and I can put it on.
And so making sure I was spending a
lot of time with friends was really important.
I have a similar one that I've
had different grief buddies throughout this.
And what was really important for me when I,
(11:52):
when I first lost my mom was leaning on
the friends of mine who've also lost a parent.
And having that, that support was huge. The.
The other piece to that is to be able to have some.
It was really important to me to have somebody.
(12:12):
And you were one of these people that
I could just text and say, I'm fucking.
It's a bad grief day.
Or the grief is really big today, or whatever it was.
And being able to say that out loud and name it
and have that just held with love was such a big
piece of my healing is such a big piece of it.
(12:37):
Yeah.
I think when we're in deep grief, it
can feel like we need to hide ourselves
away or we can't show those authentic emotions.
And actually it's so important that we do
let it out that we find those authentic
(12:57):
spaces and those authentic friendships where we can
just name exactly where we're at.
And it's just met. Yeah.
And I think if you're that friend for somebody,
you don't even have to say much back.
You can just hold it with that person.
(13:19):
But I think we have to sort of test
who we can share that stuff with so that
we know that we have those people.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Okay, what's your next one?
So it was really hard for me to run
a business when I was deep in my grief.
(13:40):
You don't say.
So this is a two parter. Okay.
The first is that I was really glad that
I had sort of built my business to run
on its own the way I built my business.
I had done a lot of work on the front end.
And then I was at a point where I had an
(14:01):
incredible admin assistant shout out Celestie, who could really take over
for me when I didn't have a lot of energy.
And having the business pieces running sort of on
their own or having a system for it really
allowed me to put all my energy towards meeting
(14:24):
with clients, because you can't fake meeting with clients.
And it was really important to me that I was
in a space where I was still cognizant enough to
meet with clients and do my job well.
(14:45):
The admin stuff is what really sucked. A lot of energy.
I was not as good about responding to emails. I was.
I described it as I felt like a ghost at the practice.
Like, I felt like I was really disappointed in my
lack of support for my associates during that time.
(15:06):
And I wished I had more energy. And.
And I'm glad that I was saying no and not
pushing myself when I didn't have the energy so that
I could put my energy toward the clients.
Now the other piece is that being
(15:27):
a business gal, I don't think.
I think we're denouncing boss babe now.
I think people are denouncing it.
So being a business gal, I would get these manic winds.
Like, I would get a little
burst of manic energy, likely anxiety.
(15:49):
And I would just be like, okay, well, we're
doing goody bags for south by Southwest and we're
gonna get branded materials and you guys are gonna
go pass them out at showcases.
And so we would do like a marketing day.
And I had like earplugs and stickers and I had
the associates pass them out at south by Southwest.
(16:12):
So, like, knowing when you're having the dips and just letting
yourself be in the dip and rest as much as you
can and then taking advantage of the manic wins.
However, when they do blow.
I remember there were a few times that I would screenshot
an email that I had sent off and I would say
(16:36):
to you, did this sound bitchy or something like that?
And you would say, oof.
When I'm about to send out something like this,
I usually run it by my admin first.
So taking advantage of the manic wins when you
can, but not letting them blow you away. Mm. Mm.
(16:58):
Beautifully said.
Yeah, that admin piece was so, yeah, shout out Sammie
and Celestie and the rest of our teams that really
picked up a lot of slack when we were.
But yeah, I think that leaning on the supports
that are available and making saying yes when people
ask, what if they can do something for you?
(17:20):
Having I remember hearing this hack a while
back, like having a little menu of things
that people could do for you that would
be helpful when you're really struggling.
Give somebody something to do and
it's something you've already approved of. Etc.
So that's an extra little hack
that I'm tacking on to the.
To the admin piece.
I love that.
I also really loved when you saying no is
(17:45):
one of my big, big hacks for grief.
Going ahead and just saying no, knowing that I'll likely feel
not up for it, and just going ahead and saying no
really saved me all of that anxiety that build up.
That building anxiety of like, am I
going to be okay for this?
(18:05):
Am I going to have enough energy?
How will they feel if I cancel last minute?
I just went ahead and scrapped all of that
and just said no to a lot of stuff.
I remember when we were both in the thick of
things and I was really glad that we were in
it together and we had similar businesses because we could
(18:26):
talk about this together and we fully got it.
And we were talking about how we were disappointed
with ourselves, feeling like we weren't able to put
as much into our businesses as we once did.
It felt very disorienting for me because I am such a
(18:46):
hard worker and I do put so much into my business.
And I remember saying to you, we're not the
same people that we were before this happened.
And so the people who built these businesses are
not the same people that we are now.
And we have a completely different energy for it.
(19:09):
And I think about how grief
changes you in so many ways.
It literally changes your brain,
it changes your nervous system.
When you go through really intense
grief, it really changes you.
And that meant for us that
it really changed our capacity.
(19:31):
And it was getting to know what our new
capacity was and what Our new trajectory was, I
feel like I'm finally finding my footing again.
I'm finally finding my little hustle again
and feeling good about doing business stuff
and feeling excited about it.
(19:51):
But for a long time, I couldn't think
about any new projects or anything like that.
It was just too much and
I just didn't have the capacity.
And knowing that that was okay.
Yeah, I started crying just then because
I got brought back to that moment.
(20:13):
And what you said to me in that when you said
we're not the same people that we were when we started
these group practices and built these group practices was such.
It was such validation of the reality that
I was in that I wasn't quite facing.
Like, I kept beating myself up
and wondering, like, why can't
(20:34):
Why can't I send a fucking email?
You know, why can't I do this? Why can't I do that?
Like, there were.
The language I would use is that I was underwater.
And there were so many times where I was
sending an email saying, hey, I think I'm coming
up for a little bit of air.
Like, let's try to get a meeting going
or whatever it may be with the team.
(20:57):
Yeah, there was such a through loss.
There's such an identity change and we are different.
We are different people than we were
before these losses and before these changes.
Yeah, even some pieces I never got back.
Like, I kept trying to get back, even until
(21:20):
this very day, my spark for social media again.
Because social media was really
how I marketed my business.
And at the high point of it, I
was getting a lot of speaking opportunities and
I was having a lot of viral content.
(21:41):
And then it didn't feel fun anymore and
it didn't feel like a creative outlet and
it didn't give me the same thing.
I even posted a little reel today where I said, I'm
just tired and I don't really like social media anymore.
I don't think I'm going to do it.
You can find me on this podcast because it
(22:02):
feels better to do long form content rather than
try to make these little social media posts that
you never know what's going to happen with it.
It's hard to get all the nuance
in a tiny little quick reel. It's hard.
(22:23):
Hello, I'm Lindsay Camp.
And when I'm not on this podcast, yapping
away with my bestie, I'm a therapist running
a group practice called Austin Teen therapy.
For over 10 years, our clinicians have specialized
in working with young people and their families.
And though we're based in Austin, we
see folks virtually all over Texas.
If you or a teen in your life
(22:44):
is in need of some support with anxiety,
depression, disordered eating, trauma school stuff, you name
it, come check us out@www.austinteentherapy.com.
you can also find us on Instagram @austinteentherapy for helpful parenting tips, psycho education on
those teen years, community, and so much more.
(23:06):
Moving Part Psychotherapy is a group therapy
practice located in South Austin, Texas.
We offer in person services for those in
Austin and virtual services for clients throughout Texas.
We see children through adults
specializing in trauma recovery.
Our clinicians are trained in trauma modalities such
as EMDR and internal family systems therapy.
(23:27):
To learn more or get connected with a therapist
today, visit www.movingpartspsychotherapy.com or email hellovingpartspsychotherapy.com
okay, I guess
kind of still in that same vein, Writing has
been one of my hacks that to give everything
(23:51):
that's churning in my brain and in my body
a place to land has helped me move through
a lot of stuff.
And they're as simple as like little notes in my phone.
I've really loved the tactile pen to paper lately, but
writing has just been a way for me to easily
(24:14):
and fairly quickly release and move through and process.
It really makes me laugh about the Notes app too.
I agree.
I will put pen to paper and do some notes in my phone.
But then when I look, when I look,
(24:37):
I see from our Valentine's Day dinner once,
exclamation, exclamation, exclamation, exclamation Glen Hansard period.
And then it's like random notes for episodes.
Of course that's a universal experience.
Is having a manifest podcast guest.
(25:01):
Yeah.
Oh, my crush list.
My physical crush list.
Absolutely hot groceries.
Anyway, the Notes app is a dark and gorgeous place.
Also from a practical standpoint, my like we've talked, we've
said this several times about grief changing your brain and
(25:21):
my cognitive skills were shot and my memory, I used
to have such a solid memory and it that got
wrecked in these last couple of years and so writing
things down has literally become so important for me because
I can't remember shit anymore.
Yeah, that's very fair.
(25:42):
I have a firm memory for
things that I'm excited about, sure.
But not for things that I'm not excited about.
So I keep my digital calendar, my paper calendar and
then the notes app is usually for random things.
(26:03):
And often these notes never get looked at again.
No, no.
Because they make no goddamn sense.
They make no Goddamn sense.
No goddamn sense.
What you got for us?
My next one. This.
I wish I could remember the author.
(26:24):
So this is not from me, but I always think about this.
There was a meme a few years ago that
was really for parents and it said, we all
hold so many balls in the air.
Some of those balls are glass and
some of those balls are plastic.
(26:45):
The plastic balls will bounce and not break if
you drop them, but the glass balls will break.
And so I have really been a ball balancer.
I am just balancing balls.
(27:08):
So I am pretty good at keeping my home straight.
And I have my routine for getting chores done.
For dishes, I listen to a podcast.
That's my only podcast.
Time is when I do the dishes for laundry,
(27:30):
I can watch a TV show for folding.
And then I keep baskets, like nice looking baskets,
so I can throw toys that are left around
in the baskets so that they're not out.
And so I don't get overwhelmed with the sensory piece.
And then there are things that I just really let go.
(27:54):
For me, I like my home to be filled with play
and when we're able to play, it makes everybody feel safer.
So I'm not really a hound on my
kids for cleaning up, like while they're in
the midst of playing or right after.
(28:15):
Of course, they're not great
about cleaning up in general.
We do our best and we kind of keep
things in their sectors so that it does look
pretty fine and it's easy to put things away.
And then I think a lot about the glass balls and the
plastic balls for like time I spend with my kids and what's
(28:38):
important to them, what will make an impact on them.
Showing up for things makes a big impact on them.
Anytime I can go to lunch with them or I
can do some sort of quality time thing with them.
Those are definitely glass balls.
Or if I say that I'm going to do something with them,
(29:01):
I have to make sure that I follow through and do it.
The plastic balls.
I had more plastic balls around work stuff.
Things for clients were always glass balls.
And I feel bad that things for associates sometimes
(29:23):
became plastic balls because people would be okay.
As long as it wasn't urgent, people would be okay.
And unfortunately, my notes became a plastic ball.
And luckily, simple practice will remind you
(29:44):
how many notes you have to do.
And it's terrifying.
And so after you have to do an ungodly amount
of notes, you will not make that mistake again.
When you see a large number in simple practice
of the notes that you haven't gotten done, you
won't let it be a plastic ball again.
I really love that, that language of plastic
(30:05):
balls and glass balls, it helps really put
things in perspective of like what?
Like we have limited time, we
have limited energy, what matters.
Totally.
So for me, one of my huge grief
healing hacks is my relationship with birds.
(30:26):
And again, I really like these ones for me that
are like hitting, checking a lot of boxes, especially because
again, time and energy are limited when you're in it.
And so really finding things that check a lot of
boxes, meet a lot of needs feels important to me.
(30:47):
So for me, being with the birds means being outside
in nature, slowing down and giving me a singular focus.
So when I was really in the thick of
it, even still now I feel really overwhelmed with
(31:07):
everything that's going on in the world, in our
communities and in my own experience.
And so being able to pull my focus into
something that is just right here, right now, right
in front of me has been super, super helpful.
And again, it's multisensory.
There's the sight, there's the sound, there's the
(31:29):
air and the temperature and there's also, it's.
It's a new experience every time.
There's so many little details to
notice and delight in about birds.
I remember I said to my dad not too long
ago, or no, this was a while back, I was
like, so other than like cardinals and blue jays, like
(31:50):
most birds are just like brown and gray, right?
And he looked at me like I was from another planet.
He was like, no.
And since then like I've.
There are so many colorful birds and they're so beautiful and
I just crack up every time, like, how are you?
How are you this color?
Like how are you neon orange, little
(32:13):
vermilion, like what's going on here?
It's crazy.
So finding something that is multi sensory, that
is familiar but different and changes and something
that like just brings delight and something.
I liked what you said about your aerial silks,
(32:37):
that you had no skin in the game.
Like I'm not like this isn't a competition in any way.
This isn't something that brings up any anxiety.
For me, just going and sitting outside and being
with the birds is healing on so many levels.
I love that so much and I will bounce off of that.
(33:01):
I know that your self care is more sitting and being.
I schedule my self care so I came up with
a self care regimen and I've really stuck to it.
(33:21):
Especially as a mom.
We do not have a lot of time for
self care and we don't make it a priority.
Usually it's definitely something that
becomes a plastic ball.
When I was in the thick of things and I needed to
be there for my kids and be there for my clients and
run a business, I had to make self care a glass ball.
(33:47):
So I started doing my nail art.
Yeah, she did.
And so I keep up with my nails every two weeks.
That's a big part of my self care.
I did the aerial silks.
I have my personal trainer
(34:08):
therapy every week, group therapy.
This summer, when I went through another rough patch,
I got my schedule down, which I have the
privilege to get my schedule down luckily.
But I literally made my schedule
(34:28):
around going to Barton Springs.
And I would go to Barton Springs as
many days a week as I could.
I did bring my laptop a few times, which
is sacrilegious, but I would bring my laptop or
a book and make sure I took an extensive
(34:50):
dip in the water to regulate my nervous system.
Take in the sun.
And I think it has a really
nice social aspect of it too.
You're not in isolation when you're at
Barton Springs because of the community there.
So the self care makes sure that I uphold all
(35:13):
the rest of my life responsibilities and it helps me
to show up for my kids and my clients.
And I got to see that in a completely different
way because I thought I was doing self care before
my intensive period of grief, but I now know I
(35:34):
was not doing it to the extent that I needed.
And I'm glad that even though I'm in
a different phase with everything, I'm still keeping
up on the intensive self care.
Again, this conversation about, like things moving from plastic balls
to glass balls that yeah, sometimes our self care has
to be a plastic ball because of whatever reason, and
(35:58):
then sometimes it has to be a glass ball.
And knowing when it's changing and
moving with that is huge.
Huge, huge, huge.
Okay, I am going to add that one of
my healing hacks in grief was dancing is dancing.
(36:19):
So this one again is.
It checks a lot of boxes.
I like to dance alone when I'm cooking and
I really love to dance in the safety of
our homes and also out in community.
I also really love to shake my ass out somewhere.
(36:43):
Really.
Because I haven't been able to get you there.
I know, I know.
So the.
Would love to, would love to, would love to.
But dancing has been so
cathartic in an uninhibited way.
Let my body move as it feels
(37:04):
it needs to move in that moment.
Yeah, that's just been crazy, Crazy healing.
How many More do you have? I'm out. You're fresh out?
How about you?
I was just gonna add that we've both found animals to
be a bit of a healing hack in our grief.
(37:26):
I know that you got yourself some divorce
dogs, and I got myself a kitty and
chickens and having things to tend to.
Again, kind of similar as gardening,
having little critters to tend to.
And also like the science behind, you know,
(37:47):
oxytocin, when we snuggle an animal, huge.
So if you can add some.
Add some animals to your life. Yeah.
I knew that one of my dogs was going to not
make it much longer, and so I wanted to get a
dog to train her while she was still or a dog
(38:11):
for her to train while she was still alive.
But after she passed away, I got a second dog.
And there's a beautiful book on grief by Martin
Prechtel called the Smell of Rain on Dust.
And in that book, Prechtel talks about
(38:36):
how animals can help us through grief.
There's a piece of it that's a
little fucked that makes me feel bad.
But he says usually when a pet
passes away, we replace that pet.
And so that new pet holds all our grief for the
pet that passed away, which does make me feel bad.
(38:59):
And he said that's why animals don't live very long,
because when they get sick, it's from our grief Jesus.
So that's tougher to hear.
Jesus reading us for filth.
And he does have some beautiful insight about
(39:21):
how healing pets can be within grief.
Even thinking about placing your hand on
your pet and allowing your pet to
help you regulate your nervous system.
My dogs sleep with me every night
so I don't have to sleep alone.
(39:41):
There's just something really beautiful about the way that they
care for us as much as we care for them. Yeah. Yeah.
The chickens helped me so much with
my nervous system through, like they're.
They're erratic and it spikes my anxiety and so
(40:02):
working to breathe through every time I'm with them.
Same with.
The same with my cat.
Like, she's a little crazy and it can like heighten my.
Heighten my anxiety a bit.
And so clock noticing that and breathing through it
and working myself back down has been really like.
(40:26):
I just feel like, yeah, I'm co regulating
with these little critters and I love it. I love it.
Well, I think that's a wrap on our healing hacks.
Thank you for listening and we'll heal together soon.
Bye. Bye. Bye.
Thank you so much for joining us.
If you liked what you heard, please subscribe and
(40:47):
consider leaving a review if you have already.
Thank you.
You can find us on all socials at the Healing Journey.
You can find us online at
www.thehealingjourney.com and you can shoot us
an email at thehealingjourneymail.com Talk soon.
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