204 : The W.I.L.D Approach to Financial Independence with Amber Howarth

Episode Transcript
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Speaker (00:05):
Welcome to the Mindful Fire Podcast, a show about
crafting a life you love andmaking work optional using the
tools of mindfulness,envisioning, and financial
independence.
I'm your host, Adam Quail, andI'm so glad you're.
Each episode of the Mindful FirePodcast explores these three
tools through teachings, guidedmeditations, and inspiring

(00:28):
interviews with people actuallyliving them to craft a life they
love.
If you're ready to start yourMindful Fire journey, go to
mindful fire.org/start anddownload my free envisioning
guide in just 10 minutes.
This guide will help you craft aclear and inspiring vision for
your life.
Again, you can download it forfree@mindfulfire.org slash

(00:50):
start.
Let's jump into today's.
Episode.

Adam Coelho (01:09):
Amber, welcome to the Mindful Fire Podcast.
I'm so glad to have you here.

Amber Howarth (01:13):
Thank you so much.
I'm excited to be here today.

I'm excited to dive into this.
I know we connected a few monthsago and I was really interested
in sharing your story on thepodcast and have you, share your
journey with the audience.
So let's start there.
I'd love to have you start bysharing who you are, your
journey, and what you're up toin the world.

I am Amber Haworth.
I am traditionally trained as aveterinarian, And now I'm
starting to go through differentchapters.
So to take everybody back for asecond, I was one of those
people who wanted to be aveterinarian since I think I was
four years old.
I came into it, my grandmaalways volunteered at the

(01:56):
hospital and had a little boxunderneath her sink in the
bathroom with first aid stuff.
And I would take it and I'd runaround the house and everyone
would get doctored, the humans,the dogs, everybody would get, a
towel wrapped around their armor something, a bandage
somewhere But that's how thisstarted.

(02:16):
My parents also had a cat beforeI was born.
We got a Rottweiler when I wastwo and we kind of kept
collecting animals as US kidsgrew up.
And my grandparents always jokedwith us that we were the House
Zoo.
So we always, had animals in thehouse and were doing things like
that.

(02:36):
so I just continued that pathand that love.
my dad and I also would watchthe Crocodile Hunter on TV with
Steve Irwin and I really gotinto wildlife in that way and I
just kept pursuing through highschool, through my undergrad.
I was nose to the grindstone.

(02:58):
very nerdy.
Still kind of am till today in away or in several ways if you
ask my husband.
But, I just started doingeverything that I could to get
into vet school.
And I did.
And the messaging that Ireceived from family members
was, you go to school, you get adegree, you come out the other
side, you go to work and youwork until you retire.

(03:21):
And that was kind of yourpathway.
And that was what was expectedof me.
So I went and I did that and Igot myself almost into negative
$200,000 of school loans.
And luckily for me, that wasonly graduate school.
I had scholarships and otherthings for undergrad, but that

(03:44):
was how expensive graduateschool was gonna be for me.
And so my husband and I hadgotten married.
Throughout vet school, and itwas always at the back of my
mind going through school, howam I gonna pay for this?
$200,000 is a house basically.
You could own a house with thatin some parts of the country.

(04:05):
other parts, maybe not today,but back then, yes, and I felt
guilty.
I felt truly, really guiltygoing into a new marriage with
all of this debt, knowing thatmy husband didn't have any debt
and that I was gonna be bringinghim down with that.
So I graduated in 2020 when thewhole world decided to shut down

(04:28):
and take a pause, and there weresome good things that came out
of it.
my husband and I at that timewere living across the country
because our trainings had pulledus in different directions.
He is a military and he's anApache pilot, so he was going to
school for all of that.
he had recently graduated andmoved to his first duty station

(04:49):
and the hospital, the teachinghospital that I was at once, the
news of COVID roamed around,said that we can't continue for
you guys to be in the hospital.
Everyone has to go home, but wecan't graduate you yet.
So I took that as I'm gonna fly,be stuck with him.
If I'm gonna be stuck withanybody, I'd rather be with him

(05:10):
than in my apartment by myself.
So I flew down there to be withhim and since I couldn't, I
wasn't graduated, I couldn'twork.
we had some online stuff to do,but it definitely going from an
18 hour workload day of whatthey expected in the teaching
hospital to absolutely nothing,I was going a little stir crazy.

(05:30):
So I started researching and Ifell into Phi, white Coat
investor, afford anything, allof those, and I just could not
get enough of that.
My mind and my wheels startedturning because I knew there
were other ways to live.
My aunt and uncle growing uphave their own business and

(05:51):
they're very, very successful.
And I knew that people did theirfinances differently and there
was another way to do thingsother than work until you retire
and sometimes even.
people work past that andthey're still working in their
eighties just because they can'tafford to retire.
And I just could not get enoughof it.

(06:12):
So I went into my first year ofbeing graduated as a new
veterinarian and my husbanddeployed that year.
We ended up paying off mystudent loans in about 14
months.
So we did have the pause, we had0% interest, which really helped
during that time.
But I knew that I wanted to paythe debt off because it was such

(06:33):
a huge weight on my shoulders.
and we just attacked it.
I mean, we were putting multiplethousands of dollars towards the
debt and we almost.
Pursued it a little bit toohard, to the point where later
on my husband told me, he goes,yeah, I didn't really like you
at that point in our lives.
You were going a little too hardat the debt here.

(06:56):
And that was a big wake up callof, oh, we need to take the foot
off the gas pebble a little bit.
You can't deprive yourself somuch that you're not enjoying
life anymore.
But we paid it off and westarted investing and we started
slowly relearning how do we havethis life that we love, but we
also are saving for the future?

(07:18):
And so with that, when he gotback, we moved across the
country again to the south, andI started relieving in that
area.
I picked up some work fromanother company, consulting as a
coach to other veterinariansand.
Did that for a little bit untilwe got the news of, Hey, you're
moving again, but this time it'snot across the country, it's

(07:41):
going to be across the ocean tothe other side of the world.
And that was quite a shock.
so we had to pick up and movethe military, through this
process was really good andhelped move all of our things
and everything.
But then again, I had totransition into a new space and
a new work life balance.

(08:03):
We ended up moving to Korea andwe've been here since July of
2023.
And with that, I've had toposition work a little bit
differently and figure out whatI wanna do going forward and how
all of that's gonna fit into themilitary life that my husband
leads and me as his spouse.

(08:23):
But that ended up.
shaping me into more of atraveler and being willing to
solo travel by myself andhopping onto some conservation
events and volunteering in SouthAfrica, going to Thailand,
working with elephants andbringing about all of that.

(08:43):
The idea for my, I'm a financialcoach as well, and I'm in the
process of getting my A-F-C-P-Ecredentialing for financial
coaching, but I started thinkingprobably in 2022, maybe 2023,
the very beginning, that it'd bereally nice to own my own

(09:07):
business and work for myself.
And that idea got planted intomy head while I was in vet
school.
I had a mentor that I metthrough one of the clubs that I
joined that always said, you.
Can do financially better foryourself and for your family and
all of that if you own abusiness and you fast track

(09:27):
yourself a little bit more.
And that idea sat with me, andthen I worked for his company
for a little bit there.
And I knew from hopping clinicsacross the country with my
husband as the military moved usthat I did wanna own.
And originally that was gonna bea vet clinic.
And then the idea kept shapingand forming until I was like,

(09:49):
well, if we are gonna moveinternationally potentially
multiple times throughout thiscareer, I should start financial
coaching because it's somethingthat I am hugely interested in.
I've done thousands of hours inresearch on it, and I love
helping friends and family withtheir finances and making sure

(10:09):
that the numbers make sense forthem.
And now that they can have alife that they truly love now
and.
Later on towards retirement.
So as I think I said a littlebit earlier, there's just
seasons and chapters that we'vecontinuously gone through, and
as the military has shifted usand moved us from one place to

(10:30):
the other, our ideas keepchanging and what I need to do
and be adaptable keeps changing.
So that's where I eventuallydecided to go on the financial
coaching route, as well asgetting more involved in
conservation.

Very cool.
Well, that's quite a journey.
I appreciate you sharing that,and I think there are a few
things that stand out to me,versus just how cool it is to be
living your childhood dream ofwanting to be a veterinarian.
And, I don't know what exactlyyour dream was, but for me it
sounds much cooler to be liketaking care of elephants than,
just taking care of sick dogs.

(11:07):
yeah, I mean, either way it'sgreat, but pretty cool.
I mean, you sent me somepictures to show my kids of you
taking care of elephants inThailand and looks pretty
awesome.
I gotta say.

they are so amazing.
Hollywood, I feel like, doeselephants a disservice because
they are so quiet, so they willsneak up on you.
Mm-hmm.
I feel like Hollywood makeselephants, the ground shakes as
soon as they move.
And yes, it does.
If they're running and there'smultiple running, but when it's
just one or two walking, they'reso quiet.

(11:40):
And the other thing is you,you're like in Jurassic Park,
the noises that an elephant canmake, there's so many different
tones and different growls and.
All these different things thatyou don't even realize until you
go.
And I tell all the students thatI take, into Elephant Nature
Park in Thailand, it just,you're literally in Jurassic

(12:01):
Park.
It is so amazing.
And anyone who has the chance togo, to Thailand and experience
that definitely should.
It's life changing.

That's amazing.
Yeah.
That's so cool.
And then the other thing thatstands out is just the
resilience, Like so manychanges, so many restarts, so
many unforeseen things, I mean,that's life.
But you, you've had a lot ofthat in a very short period of
time.
and so I guess just like how,how do you think about that?

(12:30):
how do you bounce back when youhave to go to Korea, which
presumably you've never been toknow, don't know anybody there.
And you started over like anylessons in terms of resilience?

Definitely.
It was hard, I'm not gonna lie.
It was really hard.
And when we first found out, Iwas a little scared and
skeptical and nervous.
It did help a little bit.
My husband deployed here in Juneof 2020 to 2021, but they kept
him pretty locked down on thebase.

(13:05):
So he did not get to exploreKorea very much, but he had at
least a little bit of an inklingof what to expect.
And yeah, it was a culture shockcoming here just to see the
differences and to learn theircustoms and rules and all of
that.
But we kept an open mind and wekept pushing through.

(13:29):
For me what helps is havinglittle.
Things to look forward to.
So, shortly after we moved herewas my trip planned to Africa to
go and, help with, we did Rhinode Hornings, rhino captures and
moving, we darted buffalo andended up relocating them to a

(13:50):
different game reserve.
And so just having little thingsalong the way to look forward
to.
And then I will say to thecommunity here, is tight knit
just because on post Humphreysis really big and we're the
biggest installation overseas.
But with that being said, we'rekind of like a little island of

(14:12):
Americans floating in a sea ofKoreans.
So going to different events,Putting myself out there on the
Facebook groups that CampHumphreys has and everything
really helped with that.
And then just keeping an openmind going with the flow, as I
said earlier, really helped withthe resilience.

Yeah, That's awesome.
And, and yeah, it sounds likeyou're doing quite a bit of,
solo traveling and, and I guessI'm curious like how, when you
think about this next chapter ofyour life, like with the
financial coaching and then theveterinarian conservation work,
like how does that all cometogether?
Right?
And like yeah, how do youbalance it all and, and kind of

(14:55):
what does that vision look like?

Yeah, so conservation and finances are
actually more married thanpeople think, and we all are on
the same planet.
We all have to live, we all haveto use the planet's natural
resources.
So in a way, we all affect oneanother.
Even the Tiniest species likeyour bees and your spiders and

(15:20):
things like that.
We all play a role and thatcomes into contact with finances
because finances also make theworld go round and helps with
everything.
Without finances, you can't haveone or the other.
not unless we go back tobartering as we were in the
caveman days, but for balancingit.

(15:41):
with my business being solelyonline, I'm able to take it with
me wherever I go.
And I do share that with mycommunity of where I'm at and
the different places that I'mtraveling to.
for example, I just recentlywent to Bali and went to the FI
retreat there, with Amy,

The five Freedom Retreat with Amy Minkley, who
was a guest on the podcast onepisode 1 26.

Oh, that's so awesome.
yeah, she was absolutelyamazing.
I tried to get into the firstBali retreat and it sold out in
eight minutes.
I was right there.
I had, the room picked out andready to go, ready to hit
submit, and then the website wasjust, Nope, no more spots we're
done, we're sold out.

(16:26):
So I'm so happy that she endedup putting together a second
retreat for all of us.
But I was expecting to walk intothat and solely talk about
numbers and.
Go deep with people into that,and it completely flipped the
script on me.
I walked in and it was all aboutyour purpose and your emotions

(16:47):
and what to do next, which wasabsolutely amazing.
And I learned so much from theother attendees, the speakers, I
highly recommend to anyone who'sinterested to definitely go,
this was my very first, firetreat, get together, anything.
I had never done anything likethis before and so I'm so

(17:09):
excited to keep exploring FinConand Economy Campfire.
I'm sure there's a bunch ofother ones that I'm not listing
here, but just wow.
And I, I loved how it marriedfinances with the travel and
tying both of them together.

Yeah.
That's awesome.
Yeah, Amy goes to all theevents.
She loves pie events so muchthat she created her own,
There's such a power to be incommunity with people who have
similar interests and are kindof living differently than most
people, I am now early retired.
I say semi-retired because I'm,building this business, but my

(17:47):
vision was always to do it in myown time and my own way.
But, most people are workingright?
So like, I've been doing a lotof golfing, so I'll be golfing
and I'm always like.
how are you out here?
Right.
And a lot of the people areolder and are traditionally
retired, but, I was playing withthis other guy, he's, he's a Bar
Mitzvah dj.
He does events and they're allon the weekend usually, so he

(18:09):
can play during the week.
So I was like, all right, lemmeget your number and let's hang
out, let's do more of this.
but it is cool to be at thesefire events.
And I've only been to one, I'veonly been to, economy where I
met Amy in person, but yes, it'sso important to have these
communities.
And so I guess, like you said,there was a lot of work around
purpose there.
and curious, like what were someof the takeaways there?

It is definitely one of the things that I am
still working on.
But, Jordan Grommet was there,doc G ah, some people know him
and they actually did a livepodcast, with him and Jackie,
Cummings.

Oh, yeah.

there as well.
Yeah, it was so much fun towatch'em work together, but in
essence, it was all aboutfinding your little p purpose
and not your big p purpose.
so basically just adding thingsinto your daily life that bring
you joy and taking out thethings that don't, and a lot of
us wait for purpose to kind ofsmack you in the face.

(19:09):
And I feel like that hashappened to me a little bit of
you're reaching this goal,trying to become a veterinarian,
and as soon as you graduate, youhad this moment where it was
like, now what?
I just did it.
I've worked, all my lifeessentially.
And then eight years ofundergrad and graduate school.

(19:30):
But now, now what do I do isthat, what's the next goal?
How do I keep leveling up,essentially?
Mm-hmm.
And a lot of us chase that goalafter goal and this and this.
And I'll be happy if I get to Xnumber or I'll be happy if I
just had this, or whatever itis.
And that made a lastingimpression on me personally,

(19:54):
because it truly is, you can'twait for purpose just to smack
you in the face.
You have to go out and, and dosomething.
And it doesn't necessarily haveto be world shattering.
you hear world hunger and putthat into place.
But it's just the little thingsthat you can put into your day.
Every single day, or week ormonth, that truly bring you joy

(20:18):
and take out the things thatdon't and make it what you want.
You have to curate your ownpurpose.
You can't let others in theexternal validation bring it in
for you.

Yeah, yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I forgot that he was gonna bethere.
Yeah.
So another guest on the podcast,episode one 60 where we talk
about big P versus little ppurpose and Yeah, absolutely.
you need to build your purpose,as you go, as you get more
clarity by taking little steps.
And, yeah, I love that conceptof little p purpose and, just

(20:53):
really.
Useful.
And so pretty cool that you'reable to be there and do that
with him and Jackie andeverybody.
yeah, met both of them ateconomy as well.
that's how he became a guest onthe podcast.
so community again.

small world in the PHI community.

It is, it is.
And, everyone is so supportive,like, that's the thing I love
about this.
It's like, even if we offersimilar services, like, you
offer financial coaching And Ioffer envisioning coaching,
some, what I offer is verysimilar to some of the guests
that I've had, but I don't seeus in competition at all.
I see that we're all supportingthe community, we're all
supporting each other, and we'restill a minuscule portion of the

(21:33):
population, right?
That live this way, thatunderstand these concepts, that
realize the potential forbuilding financial independence
and creating a life that youlove, as I always say on this
podcast.
So it's, it's really cool to, tobe in places where you can build
together and create new ideasand new ways of doing things.

(21:55):
So That's awesome.
So I guess I'm curious, likewhat, as I, I don't mean to put
you on the spot here, but like,what is your little p purpose
that you're building?
how are you building that?
Yeah.
What have you learned so far, Iguess?

Yeah.
so far on this crazy journeythat life has brought us into my
little p purpose right now isbeing able to wake up, go for a
run with the dogs or go to thegym.
I have two dogs that are our furchildren right now.
We don't have any children ofour own currently, but our dogs
are our absolute children.

(22:28):
we love taking them for runs orfor walks in the morning, going
to the gym, and then being ableto work on my business and being
able to.
Promote financial independence,what it stands for, and then
also dive into more of the moneymindset behind that.
And like we've mentioned before,pairing that with conservation

(22:49):
because they just go hand inhand.
And we affect our ecosystem andthe ecosystem affects us and we
can't live without one or theother.
And so being able to work onthat, I do still, we call it
relief in the veterinary world.
It basically just means that I'ma independent contractor for a
clinic or a company or somethinglike that.

(23:11):
I've gotten into touch.
I don't know if anyone in thecommunity here would know, but,
jungle doctors on Instagram.
She's a vet based out ofAustralia and she travels
worldwide to help out withconservation projects.
So I've gotten into touch withher to try to add more
conservation onto my platebecause I do really enjoy

(23:33):
helping wildlife and giving backand volunteering.
And so right now that is what Iam building out as my little p
purpose, as well as being ableto travel with my husband and
just see the world.

Very cool.
And so a lot of this work thatyou do, this veterinary work, is
it paid work or is it volunteerwork?

The conservation portion has been mainly unpaid
right now.
as I gain more experience inthat.
'cause I did not do like aninternship or anything like that
right after veterinary school inwildlife or zoology or anything
like that.
so as I build up that, maybe oneday it'll be paid, but right now

(24:15):
it is unpaid.
The other portion of that is Ido work a little bit on base as
a veterinarian, seeing dogs andcats.
There's enough Americans overhere in Korea that they need
extra help with the veterinarycare on base, because we have
that many animals to see.
And then I will go back to thestates and work mainly in

(24:38):
Arizona.
That's where my family's from.
So I'm able to go back withthem, stay with them for a
little bit, say hi to the familyand the friends and all of that.
Then the Thailand program that Iwork with is called Loop Abroad,
and they bring pre veterinarystudents, veterinary students,
and then also, occasionally highschoolers, mainly over from the

(25:00):
United States.
But there have been, somestudents from Europe as well as
Puerto Rico, Australia comingover and joining us, and we take
'em through a two week programthat they can actually get
college credit for if they're incollege.
We do a week with the sheltermedicine.

(25:20):
There's a Thai veterinarianthere who's doing the hands-on
surgeries of the spay andneuter.
And then us Americanveterinarians are in charge of
the anesthesia and teaching thekids all about anesthesia, going
through the workbook, doingdaily lessons with'em.
They do have a final exam forthat as well.
And then we take a week to go upto the Elephant Nature Park,

(25:42):
where we partner with the Thaivets, the Thai elephant vets
there, and I call them kids, andI know that some of them are not
kids, but still to me, they'remy kids for the two weeks that I
have'em.
they get hands-on experiencewith the elephants.
They get to, potentially cleanwounds and, and give the
elephants injections and otherthings, whatever, that elephant

(26:04):
vet for that day has to do.
And that's safe for the studentsto do and partake in.

Got it.
So Amber, let's switch gears alittle bit and talk about your
financial coaching practice.
And I know you have this conceptthat you call wild, and you told
me when we first talked what itmeans, but I have forgotten and
I'm very interested for you toshare your approach to financial
coaching and what wild standsfor.

Awesome.
I would love to get into that.
I would love to say too, I loveearlier how you stated there
are, A bunch of people infinancial coaching and, and
doing different things likethis, but everyone comes from a
different background and I neverfeel like I'm in competition
with anyone else because we allhave the different backgrounds,

(26:50):
the different experiences, andalmost putting different touch
points on the financial journeyprocess.
The wild method, it came out ofmy love for finances and
conservation.
Again, merging them together.
But the first part, the W standsfor wealth management and Wealth

(27:12):
Mindset.
And so truly digging into yourmoney mindset and what that
means for you because.
Growing up, everyone's parentscame from a different background
and their parents taught themdifferent things about money,
which then translated to thekids.
and I've even heard from some ofmy clients that I've talked to,

(27:34):
even between siblings, theylearned different things from
their parents.
Even though the parents weretelling them the same thing,
they took away different piecesof that message and internalized
it differently even though itwas the same household, same
situation, same stressors.

(27:55):
And so I really wanted to focuson that.
And that came about.
I was in a business groupcoaching program, and we would
help each other out, dependingon what our coaching profile was
in this group.
And one of the ladies, was like,oh, I, I really need to work on
my money mindset and.

(28:16):
That sparked something me.
I was like, Tons of people havethings from their childhood or
from their past relationships orthings that they've done in the
past that come from that moneymindset where they just need a
reframe or a little bit of arewiring or a nudge through
that.
So that's why the first portionof this wild method is all about

(28:40):
the mindset behind money.
The I is for intentionalspending and investing.
my husband and I tried doing abudget and we definitely were
very budget heavy when we cameout of veterinary school and
we're trying to pay off.
That mountain of debt.
And we soon realized for us thata budget was just very restrict

(29:03):
and we didn't like that word.
And I feel like a lot of peopledon't in this space.
It has a lot of sometimes badconnotations to it.
And I didn't want, to go aroundsaying budget and have people
kind of do that immediate like,oh you, well what do you do for
a living?
You, oh, you help people budget.
And so intentional spending isjust easier to handle.

(29:27):
People like to spend money.
Most people, there are somepeople in this space that it's
really, really hard for them tospend money, but it just helps
relax that a little bit.
And if you do truly make surethat your money is going into
the categories that you want itto, you're gonna feel better
about it and your money is gonnawork for you.
The.

(29:48):
Investing portion comes aneducational piece around, what
are the different buckets?
What is a 401k, if that's wherethey're at and need that help.
but that's how month two is setup essentially with the I.
and again, since I am afinancial coach, I legally
cannot provide, differentportfolios and anything like

(30:10):
that for anyone.
And I do make that really clearto the people that I work with,
that it is all an educationalpiece.
but I really do love helpingpeople understand the system a
little bit better because a lotof people come into it and they
think it's this complicated,complex thing, and you have to
be sitting online, from 8:00 AMin the morning until the
afternoon, figuring things outevery single day with the stock

(30:34):
market.
The L is your lifestyle design,and I absolutely love this.
It's taking everything that youworked on in the mindset portion
and your intentional spendingplan that you put together and
really fitting it around whatyou envision for yourself and.
This, I really like to beflexible.

(30:55):
'cause as I have learned, Ithought that I would graduate,
vet school and work in a vetclinic, until I retired and then
had that golden age with this,pot of gold at the end.
And I would retire and do allthe things then, and life
changes faster than that.
And you need to be able to havea plan and be more adaptable in

(31:15):
that.
So really honing in on thevalues and where you're wanting
to go and where you, what do youwant right now, and how that's
gonna change with you as yougrow.
And then, the last portion, theD is for discovery.
And so that fits a little bitinto the lifestyle design, which
is why they're paired in myprogram together of just

(31:39):
discovering new things and.
Hitting into that little ppurpose of adding and taking
away and having littleexperiments with life to see
what you like and what you don'tlike.

Very cool.
I love it.
I think pretty well cover it.
So, tell me a little bit abouthow you help people evolve their
mindset when it comes tofinances.
I think we all have our hangupsabout money.
So I guess like how do you helppeople become aware of the
stories that they tellthemselves about money?
And then how do you kind ofunwind those a little bit?

Yeah, definitely.
I like to take'em through whathappened during their childhood
and describe all of that indetail with journaling prompts
and seeing what that brings upfor them and really trying to
fine tune and sort all of thosestories out before going
forward.
And so once that's done, then wetalk about today and what they

(32:35):
still feel from their childhoodis having a poll on them and
then going into the future of.
Where do they want that to goand what do they want that to
look like and what do we need towork on currently to get rid of
the stories that they arecurrently telling themselves of
writing down differentaffirmations.

(32:56):
and again, going back to lots ofjournaling prompts thrown in
there to really help themovercome those hurdles and see,
what we can work with together.
And then going through thedifferent, letters even past
that.
It still gets brought up as wego through to continuously keep

(33:17):
working on that mindset andmaking sure that we're making
progress and not reverting backto where we were at.

Yeah, that makes sense because.
I always say, one of the corephilosophies that I teach is
that our stories create ourreality, right?
The way that our brain works isour brain is predictive, and it
predicts based on pastexperience.
And what we pay attention toessentially is planting, as I
call it, planting seeds, whichdictate what our brain predicts

(33:44):
and ultimately what we live out.
And so, when we're talking aboutmoney mindset, we have 20, 30,
40, 50 years of historypracticing these old stories,
and so many of them are evenunder the surface and
unconscious.
And so we first need to bringawareness to those stories.
and then kind of, a questionthat's been helpful for me is

(34:06):
like, is this useful?
I notice myself telling me thestory, oh, I'm never gonna get
ahead, or, you know, I'm badwith money, or whatever it might
be.
Is this useful?
Is this taking me where I wantto go or no?
And if it's not useful, it canjust let it go.
And so I imagine that comes upagain and again throughout the
process, especially as you startto make some progress, get some

(34:26):
things in place, start to buildout your investment approach and
all these things, those little,unhelpful stories will rear
their head and you kind of needto, address them throughout the
journey.

yeah.
I definitely come across thatwith so many people who will
keep saying, oh, I'm bad withmoney, or I never got taught it,
so I don't know anything aboutit, or, whatever comes up for
them.
But yeah, it definitely, isreally good to ask, is it useful
and drop it if it isn't.

Yeah, exactly.
Is it taking or where you wantto go or no, and if not mm-hmm.
Choose a new story.
So speaking of choosing a story,I talk about that as
envisioning, but How do you helppeople, craft this vision for
their life?

Yeah, it's definitely a time where people
can get creative and excitedbecause usually if you ask
someone, oh, if money was not anoption, what would you be doing?
Everyone usually has an answerfor that, and it doesn't take
people usually a lot of time tosay something back to this, and

(35:32):
I love to bring that up.
If money wasn't an option, whatwould you be doing right now?
And.
Having them envision that andreally get into the details, not
just, oh, I would travel.
Okay, well, write down orexplain what exactly that looks
like.
are you on a beach?
Are you in a mountain?
Are you in a different country?

(35:54):
Exactly.
Detailing out, what theyenvision.
And that's been very powerfulfor people.

Yeah.
And is there a certain timeframethat you have them envision?
You know, I generally say like,look five years out.
Right.
And if everything goes betterthan expected, what does that
look like?
or do you have a timeframe thatyou help them look at?

I usually do five to 10 years

Okay.
So long, long range.

Mm-hmm.
yeah.
Just you to see.

Go ahead.

Oh, just to see the different chapters and if
they would still continue.
To do the same thing, or if theywould jump to something else.

interesting that you ask people, what would you
be doing if money was no object,they have a quick response.
I've not approached it in thatway necessarily.
In, everyday conversation.
I generally ask people what isthe big vision for your life,
for me it's implied, but Ishould probably say it
specifically, like if you hadthe money to do whatever you
wanted.
but I find that a lot of peopledon't have an answer for the

(36:54):
question that I ask, which isessentially what's the big
vision for your life?
I find that most people nevermake the time to ask themselves
these questions about what doyou actually want and what would
you be doing if you could doanything.

Interesting.
I've asked friends and clientsand family, and usually I get a
response back at least some sortof quick, it might be off cuff
of high level.
I haven't broken it down yet,but a high level, quick
response.

Yeah.
I mean, obviously I love thatquestion as like, I'm a vision
guy, right?
I'm all about vision and for meit doesn't need to be tethered
to reality at I think differentpeopleapproach things in
different ways.
So, yeah.
I guess so.
Like, you got them in this longrange vision, how do you back
that into, okay, how do youstart living this life today and

(37:43):
building your financialsituation and building your life
and career to get to thatvision?

Yeah, that would go back to what can they do now
to add in those little thingsthat give them joy and breaking
it down into the micro sizedbites.
Because I mean, if someone says,oh, I wanna quit my job and
travel the world, they probablycan't go and do that tomorrow.
And so taking something likethat and basically working

(38:08):
backwards and breaking it downto, well, with the PTO that you
have, can we start traveling?
Can we make the PTO extendlonger by taking advantage of
all different holidays that comeup throughout the us?
Or maybe they transition into ajob where they can do it hybrid
or more so remote.

(38:31):
That the company doesn't carenecessarily where they're at as
long as they're getting theirwork done on time.
So it really depends on whatthat high level of vision looks
like, and then finding ways forus to break it down and bring it
into their life today, or maybetransition and bring it in
slowly.

Yeah, I love, hopefully

that was a good answer, because it truly
depends.

No, of course.
It definitely depends on kind ofwhat their vision is.
And, in my work when I've, ledgroup coaching programs, my Fire
starter program and just hadconversations, I've had a lot of
conversations with people whoare considering it, and I always
get them to, ask them what'stheir big vision, right?
And if you want to do myexercise, you can download

(39:15):
that@mindfulfire.org slashstart.
That exercise kind of gets thatbig vision out.
But I think what's alwaysinteresting for me is like, the
thing that's interesting is thatyou can start living that life
right away, right?
Like most of these vision, likesome of them, you get so pie in
the sky, it's like, well, yeah,I want to have like a private

(39:36):
jet.
It's like, well that's, yeah,maybe you're gonna take some
time on that one.
But most people, it's just like,I want to travel more, like you
said, or I want to be able totake my kids to school every
day, right?
Like things like that.
It's like, you can absolutely dothat, right?
Like if your job does not allowyou to do that, you can get a
different job.
And so that, for me, I find thatso empowering that's like, you

(39:59):
either have what you wantalready or you can tweak your
life slightly to start havingaspects of that vision.
And so when I, the promise ofwhen I was doing my group
coaching program is like.
By the end of this program,you're going to be having
tangible ways that you areliving your vision already.
And that's kind of like a, kindof a spoiler alert.

(40:21):
It's like, because it's not thathard to do and the problem for
most people is that they don'teven know what they want.
Right.
Which is kind of the peoplethat, when I was doing my group
coaching program, it was verymuch for those people.
They've reached financialindependence.
They don't know what they wannado for their next chapter, so
they just keep working and theykeep doing the same thing even

(40:41):
though they know they don't needto and they want to do something
different.
And so it starts with what doyou actually want?

Yeah.
I definitely agree.
It ties back into that little ppurpose and doing mini
experiments to see what you likeand does it feel good?
Does it fit?
Do you wanna keep doing more ofit and, taking out what you
don't like?
We did an exercise through theFI retreat with Dxi and he had

(41:11):
us write down all of the thingsthat we would do throughout our
day, just anything andeverything throughout the day, a
week, a month.
And then as we finished withthat, we would cross out the
things that we did not like.
And all you have left at the endof it was the things that you
did like, and that was reallyimpactful because then you can

(41:33):
see, okay, I like, education andI like communication and, so
circling those of how do I buildmore of these out and let go of
everything else.

Yeah, that's a underrated approach, right?
Like, we always think aboutadding things to our life,
right?
But we get a lot, there's a lotof bang for your buck and
removing things that you don'tlike from your life.
Like if you hate cleaning yourhouse, you could find a pretty
reasonably priced cleaner to dothat for you, and you don't need
to do that anymore, right?
Mm-hmm.
So that's a, that's a huge thingthat I often forget about, but

(42:07):
is, kind of a quick way to getmore enjoyment out of life.
And the thing I'll also sayabout the mini experiments,
which is also an approach that Iteach in my programs, it's like
you don't know.
You just'cause you think youwant something, doesn't mean you
for sure are gonna love it,right?
You have to actually try it.
And so you don't want to buildthis up.
It's kinda like what you weresaying about like graduating vet

(42:29):
school.
You think, oh, that's, I'm,everything's gonna be great.
It's gonna be perfect.
And then you get there andyou're like.
Okay, now what, and, and there'sthings about that situation that
you like and that you don'tlike.
And so mini experiments allowyou to figure that out along the
way with low risk, lowinvestment, mini experiments
that you can try things on.

(42:50):
And I think that is the kind ofthe best way to approach all of
this, because, I'll speak formyself like I'm one year into
semi-retirement and I am stillfiguring it out.
Surprise, surprise.
Turns out life is just a seriesof figuring things out.
and there are some things that,I didn't necessarily expect and
I had a clear vision of what Iwanted to do There's also an

(43:12):
unwinding of the old stories,kind of back to the mindset of
working in corporate America forGoogle, which is a fast-paced,
high pressure environment forthe last 14 years.
There's a lot of unwinding thatneeds to happen to get into this
new approach of being anentrepreneur in my own time, in
my own way.

(43:33):
And you know, it's a year in andI'm still learning that, So it's
gonna be ongoing, so you mightas well start now.
That's kind of how I approachit.

Exactly, exactly.
I always thought, oh, when I getto this point, I'll finally,
have it all together, have itall figured out, and life just
throws you too many curve ballsthat you just have to keep
adapting and keep going with it,and going with the flow and
relearning things and learninghow to do things new and
differently.

Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, that's so true.

So the even bigger vision for myself right
now is to take people on a kindof, sort of like a PHI retreat,
but have it also be conservationrelated.
And do a little bit of both andhow they both connect and to
just truly see how wonderful andamazing the world is and how

(44:28):
special these ecosystems are.
And to be able to, talk aboutfinances and then go on a safari
at night or something like that,or even volunteering and
bringing the two together.
I think that would be reallycool to have either a group or
maybe a family or something likethat be able to go and

(44:48):
experience things.

Okay, I love it.
So you have a bigger vision.
Okay, cool.
So let's do that.
alright Amber, so let's switchgears now into the, what I call
the mindful fire Final four.
Are you ready?

Let's do it.

Alright.
So the first question is allabout envisioning, right?
We've talked about it already,but I'm curious, when you think
five years out, what is your bigvision for your life and the
work that you wanna bring to theworld?

In five years time, I hope that I have a group
program that will choose adifferent destination every year
and go somewhere, new andinspiring with wildlife for
people to be able to see theworld that I see with the
veterinary side and theconservation side, and marrying

(45:39):
that again into a little bit offinance and mindset work and
bridging the two together to beable to have an unforgettable
experience and experiencing ournatural world, and also working
on the purpose and the mindsetand everything else behind it.
And I think just being able tobring those two together and

(46:02):
being able to see both sideswould be absolutely amazing.

Very cool.
That sounds awesome.
So keep me posted on that.
five years time my kids will bea possibly appropriate age for
something like that, but thatsounds really cool.
And yeah, I just love thatyou're melding these two things
together, Like I'm doing theexact same thing, right, with
mindfulness and financialindependence, retire early, like
I always felt there was anoverlap.

(46:28):
And so it, it's cool, and you'rebringing together different
parts of your life and yourtraining and your background and
your passions into this onething.
it's very cool.
And, I think there's a lot of, Imean, people love animals,
right?
People.
Presumably love the world, theearth, some people, so there's,

(46:48):
there's a lot of opportunitythere, I think, and, and just,
it's a different way to educatepeople about finances and
personal finance and all ofthat.
And for me, I think it's just soempowering when you understand
your financial situation and youunderstand the path to financial
independence, the simple path towealth.

(47:09):
As JL Collins says, anotherguest on the podcast, which was
amazing, also a result ofcommunity and being at economy.
like it's so empowering, Becauseyou can take risks, you can make
bets on yourself, you can buildyour life in a way that you
want, rather than a way that isjust required to pay the bills,

(47:31):
right?
And there's so many peoplearound the world.
struggling to just put food onthe table, just keep a roof over
their head.
Richest country in the world.
So many people doing that everysingle day, and I don't think
that's, going to get betteranytime soon.
So I think that we each need tobuild these skills for ourself

(47:53):
so that we can.
carve out our own path and livethe life that we want.
'cause we only get this onelife, so we might as well make
it the best that we can.

There's some statistic out there and I can't
remember exactly.
It's, I wanna say between 70 and80% of people once they get
their finances in order and knowthat they're gonna be okay and
they don't have to work to putfood on the table or keep a roof
over their head, actually end updoing, philanthropic, type of
events or starting their owncharity or foundation or, et

(48:26):
cetera.
So it's such a big part of thiscommunity.

Yeah.
it's awesome.
I had this idea when I was atGoogle and I kind of did a
little bit of it, but I had thisidea that they're called RS when
people join Google and they allstart on the same day and they
have a big room with all ofthem.
And I always have this idea thatI want to teach these people
from the very beginning, Some ofthem are fresh outta college,

(48:50):
some of them, have 50 yearsexperience, But either way, here
are the financial benefits thatyou can take advantage of here
and the core concepts that youcan have in your back pocket to
build wealth.
Because I figure all thesepeople are smart.
They didn't get these jobsbecause they're not smart and
they're motivated and they'reambitious and they care.

(49:11):
Those are the type of peoplethat should reach financial
independence early.
And not just have five BMWssitting in their driveway, and
then they can actually do thework that they're meant to do.
Answering emails and selling adsis, some people love, wasn't my
life's work, but having theability to do financial

(49:32):
dependence now allows me to dothis.
Allows me to build this podcast,allows me to figure out how I
can serve people and bringpeople together and connect them
with each other themselves andtheir biggest vision for life,
which is my purpose.
You know, it's my little ppurpose and my big p purpose all
in one.
yeah, it's a powerful thing whenyou get your finances in order.
You, you want to, most peoplewant to give back, alright,

(49:54):
let's go to question number two.
The second question is, whatpiece of advice would you give
to someone early on their pathto financial independence?

I would give someone just starting out,
especially if they have debt,definitely pay it down.
Try to pay it down fast if youcan, but do not make the same
mistake that my husband and Idid of paying it down too fast.
End depriving yourself ofeverything in life because we
got to a point.

(50:22):
Where life was not fun.
And, my husband and I didn'treally like each other for a
time because we're paying it offtoo fast.
And that was mainly coming fromme, this pressure to get it
done.
So I do think getting, debt paidoff is really, really good and
everyone should strive to dothat.
And if you can do it quicker,fantastic.

(50:42):
But don't let it become the soulthing that you talk about and
the soul thing that your liferevolves around for over a year
or more.

Yeah.
Great advice.
You need to enjoy the journey,as well as, getting rid of that
debt.
'cause you know, it, it'sworking against you.
0% interest.
You know, it's impressive thatyou were going so hard at 0%
interest, but you knew it wasn'tgonna last forever.
So I think that,

yeah.

Was was a good decision, just maybe not at the
speed you were doing it.
All right.

was one of those that we didn't know, is it going
to, every couple months you'd belike, oh, It's gonna stop.
And you never knew what wasgonna happen during that time.
And so it, it was just betterfor us at that point, to pay it
off.
I know there's some other peopleand the community would be like,
oh, you had 0% interest and youcould have invested it instead.

(51:32):
And the math probably would'veworked out on their favor better
than what we did.
But, our mentality and ourmindset was it was just hanging
over our heads and we didn'tlike that feeling.

Yeah, absolutely.
And that's really what it's allabout at the end of the day,
right?
Like numbers on a screen on onething, but your lived experience
and how you feel in your bodyand your relationship, that's a
whole different thing and waymore important in my opinion.

Definitely.

Alright, the third question is, what piece of
advice would you give to someonegetting started with meditation
and or mindfulness?

I love this question, and it goes back to
the theme throughout all of thisof don't let purpose try to
smack you in the face like I didfor a while.
I was hoping that it would justkind of hit me one day and I'd
be like, oh, this is it.
This is, what it is.
and instead you really trulyhave to build it, and you have

(52:25):
to figure out what you like andwhat you don't like and keep
going and keep being adaptableand pivoting and changing as you
go through.
and being really mindful ofthat, being open to having those
new experiences and being opento make those connections.
You truly have to go out and getthings and network and connect

(52:47):
with people.
You can't just, stay constantlyon the sidelines, kicking the
can further down the roadsaying, this, it doesn't happen
for me.

Yeah.
And you gotta try things, Andyou gotta take action and, do
the mini experiments becauseyou're not gonna figure it out
by thinking about it.
Right?
And mm-hmm.
I gotta take my own advice here,I'm pivoting my business and
I've kind of been like thinking,thinking, thinking instead of
just like acting, Mm-hmm.
Just do it.
Just try it and see whathappens, but we can get in our

(53:16):
own head, even when you knowthis stuff and

Speaker 2 (53:18):
Thanks for joining me on today's episode of the
Mindful Fire Podcast.
If you enjoyed today's episode,I invite you to hit subscribe
wherever you're listening tothis.
This just lets the platformsknow you're getting value from
the episodes and you want to behere when I release additional
content.

(53:40):
your life.
start.
Thanks again and I'll catch younext time on the Mindful Fire
Podcast.

you live this stuff and you teach this stuff, you
can still get in your own head.
So yeah, just start living yourlife.
And if you wanna learn moreabout the Big P purpose versus
little p purpose, you can listento episode one 60 with Jordan
Grumet, doc G, and you can alsocheck out his book The Purpose
Code, which is a fantastic book,and kind of walks you through
exactly how to identify yourlittle p purpose and start

(54:30):
living it.
Alright Amber, and the finalquestion is, how can people
connect with you online?
Learn more about what you, aredoing and offering and how can
people find you?

So I am on Instagram at the fi coach and
conservationist.
lo and behold, my handle is verytied to what we were talking
about this last hour, and I'mover on Substack at Amber Fi
Coats.
I also have a free guide thatpeople can download to help cut

(55:02):
years off your retirementtimeline, as well that we will
put up on the mindfulfire.org/amber.

Yeah, definitely.
Go check out that guide.
It's fantastic.
It's again, at mindfulfire.org/amber.
That'll take you over to Amber'swebsite where you can put your
email in and get that guideright away.
And yeah, follow her on all theplatforms, all the links will be
below this in the show notes.
And yeah.
Thank you so much, Amber, forbeing here and sharing your
wisdom with the audience.

Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 3 (55:33):
Thanks for joining me on today's episode of the
Mindful Fire Podcast.
If you enjoyed today's episode,I invite you to hit subscribe
wherever you're listening tothis.
This just lets the platformsknow you're getting value from
the episodes and you want to behere when I release additional
content.

(55:55):
your life.
start.
Thanks again and I'll catch younext time on the Mindful Fire
Podcast.

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204 : The W.I.L.D Approach to Financial Independence with Amber Howarth

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