May 29, 2025 • 28 mins
Co-Host Emily McKay (https://www.deservewhatyouwant.com) Maybe Emily and I waited almost 20 years to cover this subject because it's a touchy one that hits just a little too close to home for both of us. But hey, it's an important one. How do you deal with your ex...especially if you're now in a new relationship? Check it out, there are at least three categories of ex that could still theoretically be haunting your life after a breakup or divorce. And you'd better believe we'll be covering how to handle the necessarily interactions with each type. But what if your new relationship is being negatively impacted by pesky exes? Or what if your new flame is weirdly jealous of your old one? How do you handle the infamous 'child exchanges' mandated by custody agreements? What if an ex (predictably) tries to drive a wedge between you and your new partner? What if your ex is desperately trying to get you back? Or what if one of you isn't quite over the last relationship? On the other hand, what if you've made a significant upgrade over your ex and they're super upset and catty about your new 'trophy'? And in that case, isn't it weird how we start sort of rooting for our ex to find someone new--and who they like even better--themselves? And on that note, can we actually be friends with our ex, even when we're in a new relationship? Should you delete their numbers from your phone, or not? What if you're in a 'rebound relationship', and it's looking like your new partner might end up back with their old one? Hey...it happens a lot. On the other hand, what if they're toxic and just won't leave well enough alone? And wait a minute, was that a 'Rubberband Man' reference, out of the blue? Get the book Sticking Points Solved and more when you visit https://mountaintoppodcast.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Live from the mist-enshrouded mountaintop fortress that
is X&Y Communications Headquarters, you're listening to
the world-famous Mountaintop Podcast, and now, here's
your host, Scott McKay.
Hey, how's it going, everybody?
This is your main man, Scott McKay.
And this is Emily McKay.
And we're coming at you again with another
(00:25):
episode of The Big Show, and today, Emily,
we're going to talk about something that we've
been meaning to talk about for a while.
I don't know why it's never been covered
before, maybe because it's kind of a touchy
subject.
Oh, yeah?
What's that?
We're going to talk about how to deal
with your ex.
Ooh, that is a touchy subject.
And here's a surprise, especially when you're in
(00:46):
a relationship with someone else now.
So do we talk about our exes?
Well, you know, I don't think it's a
good idea to bring up your ex if
you don't have to.
Now, if the other person that you're now
in a relationship with says, hey, what's up
with that?
What happened there?
Why did you two break up?
It depends on how far along we are
(01:08):
in that relationship.
If it's a first-time date, it might
be a little too personal, too quick, too
fast.
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's fair on a
first date or a second date to broach
the subject, hey, why are you divorced?
Why are you single?
Because I think, you know, there may be
valid reasons why someone is single.
They may be crazy.
(01:29):
They may be violent.
Anything like that.
And especially for women trying to gauge their
safety with a guy, I can completely understand
it, even on a first date.
But it is awkward conversation.
If it's a second or third date, that
would be better.
Yeah, fair enough.
I mean, if you're on the first date,
you just want to make sure you're having
fun and that you even get along.
I mean, nowadays, that's a big enough hurdle
to cross, isn't it?
(01:49):
Well, I know.
Especially if the divorce didn't go well or
if the other person was just, you know,
there's some embarrassing things that may have happened.
It may be too personal because you may
only go on this date once and never
see them again.
And you don't want to spill your life
and soul to someone you'll never see again
and never really have a relationship.
Yeah, especially if you're not really actually divorced
yet.
(02:10):
Ouch.
That's right.
I didn't even think about that.
You're right.
Yeah, this person and I, we just don't
get along.
We sleep in the same bed at night.
But hey, I'm glad you're here and we're
on this date.
Next!
Next.
Well, all right.
So let's say you have gone through a
couple of dates, we've resolved why we're single
(02:30):
again or divorced.
I mean, some people get out of a
long-term relationship and it feels like a
divorce.
Some people have just been single for a
long time and haven't found the right one
and that's okay.
But specifically, when you do have an ex
in your life, it can get awkward anytime
that ex comes up.
Now, if you have children and dad or
mom is still in their life, then if
(02:51):
you're dating someone, there may be these exchanges
where they pick up the kid on Saturday
and give them back on Sunday, weekends, summers,
et cetera.
They're going to see their ex again sometimes.
So I mean, in my mind, we have
to get over it.
Right, because everyone's had a past and everybody's
had other relationships.
(03:11):
Just get into the details.
I totally understand why you want to know
why someone's divorced, why your relationship didn't work
out, why you broke up, why you're not
boyfriend and girlfriend anymore.
Were you the person who offended the relationship
and caused the separation?
Because that might be a red flag that
this person may not be a great companion.
Yeah, they might not be relationship ready at
all.
Exactly.
(03:32):
But then again, they may have been the
victim of it.
And it's nice to know that they will
make a great companion.
Or maybe they've realized what part they played
in contributing towards the demise of the relationship
and they've grown and matured from it.
That's a good sign.
Yeah, I think that's a good sign.
But what about if the person's heart was
broken and they were jilted and they're just
(03:54):
not over this person yet?
Oh, yeah.
Well, that just reminds me that that could
be where, you know, you might remind them
of that person and they're constantly thinking that
you remind them of these particular traits.
Oh, men are comparing you to them all
the time.
Right.
That's hard to do.
I really miss my ex-boyfriend because he
used to do this nice thing for me
(04:14):
and you don't do that.
Or you just did something, a mannerism or
whatever, that reminds me of him.
That's like a big dull moment.
It's like just, you know, and it's awkward
because you want them to shut up.
And it's like, you know, I'm right here.
But they just can't help themselves because guess
what?
That other person is still at the forefront
of their mind.
But usually that's not the case.
A lot of times most people don't get
(04:36):
along with their exes.
They don't feel warm fuzzies towards their exes.
Yeah, I think that's usually true.
Otherwise they wouldn't have broken up.
I mean, and I say this with some
trepidation, especially if you're out with someone really
sharp and has everything going for them, they're
probably the one who does most of the
breaking up in their life.
I know by the time you and I
met each other, we were both respectively doing
(04:57):
most of the ending of relationships short or
long term in our respective lives when we
met each other.
True.
We were.
Right.
And so there was no hard feelings there.
Right.
If someone is bouncing in and out of
relationships where they're constantly getting their heart broken,
they're probably either really needy or really clingy
or exhibiting signs of just not being well,
(05:18):
whoever they're dating's future.
In some way they're because of their erratic
behavior or whatever.
Or maybe they have a bad choice in
men.
Yeah.
Like a bad picker.
Their picker's broken, right?
Yeah.
So, you know, they're constantly getting their heart
broken.
That could mean, you know, you're next.
You're the next bad person they pick.
I wonder if that would mean if I'm
(05:38):
the next bad person they pick, maybe I'm
just not the right person.
You are a bad picked, not a bad
picker.
I'm not sure which one's worse.
Well, I mean, it's probably not your own
fault.
This person's just gravitating towards people they're going
to be fundamentally incompatible with.
And, you know, either they're putting up a
good front, they're not being completely honest, right?
(05:58):
That they're presenting themselves to be something they're
not.
And when you find out that they're not
who they represented themselves to be, well, they're
gone.
And voila, the pattern continues, their heart's broken
again.
Right?
Now, there's another thing that I was just
reminded of.
A lot of times we go on a
date and we're really curious and we're asking
the questions and we're trying to figure out
how to ask the questions.
(06:18):
But then there's the opposite problem.
When you meet someone, they won't shut up
about their ex.
Well, that's a situation where you're not going
to have a second date.
That person's got some learning to do.
I mean, we just did a masterclass a
couple of nights ago from when this particular
show is being released called Read the Room.
Man, what a solid classic example of a
(06:41):
read the room moment.
You're on a first date and you're going
on and on and on about your ex.
First, the person sitting across the table from
you, their eyes glaze over.
Second of all, they're looking for the waiter
so they can find an escape hatch, you
know, check please.
Third, they're just going to look at you
and glare and go, you know, please.
Can we stop?
And they may even drop the hints.
(07:01):
And if you go on and on, well,
guess what?
Read the room.
Well, I think some of those relationships actually
continue on for several months before someone gets
fed up and sick and tired of it.
You mean someone could actually outlast several months
of someone going on and on about their
ex all the time?
I think they can do that.
They'd have to be mighty desperate.
I don't know.
I mean, maybe they figured, well, you know,
she's had a hard life or, you know,
(07:23):
he was treated wrongly.
I can understand this as a fresh wound.
I can, you know, overlook that.
Well, it would just be an enabler at
that point.
Well, it happens, unfortunately.
I know, it does, it does, doesn't it?
Well, all right.
So I think we pretty much resolved here
that we shouldn't go around talking about our
exes pretending it's just social lubrication, like nice
first date conversation.
(07:44):
It's not.
It's not.
You know, basically, if it's something that comes
up on a first or second date, I
wouldn't sweep it under the carpet because that
says maybe it might be a red flag
to the other person.
I'm trying to hide something.
Right.
And maybe you're not.
But notwithstanding that, I once went out on
a first date with a woman who wasn't
really sure if she was single or not
because the courts had kind of emancipated her,
(08:07):
for lack of a better word, because they
didn't know whether her husband was alive or
dead.
Wow.
As it turned out, he was in the
cartel and just went missing.
Disappeared.
Yeah, right.
And she had been doing like drug runs
with him and stuff.
Oh, boy.
Okay.
So at least now I know why you're
single.
You know, she reported and I decided.
I decided there wouldn't be a second date,
but, you know, that was kind of a
rare situation.
(08:29):
But yeah, I mean, if it comes up
on a first date or a second date
or it's obviously awkwardly too early to discuss
it, I would say keep it very cordial
and very succinct.
Here's what happened and why.
What about you?
I hope they don't go on for ages.
Right.
Just keep it basic.
Keep the facts.
Don't have to.
You're not.
You're not marrying this person today.
(08:50):
They don't deserve all the gory details.
Well, you know, here we are.
We're a little bit hypocritical because on our
first date, we talked about our exes, but
it was one of those short conversations.
Why are you single?
Well, because my ex is schizophrenic and bipolar
and it was like the Spider-Man meme.
We started pointing at each other going, wow,
you too?
It was a pretty brief, concise conversation where
(09:11):
we suddenly got it.
We got each other.
We realized, hey, you know what?
I have an understanding of you.
Exactly.
You and I are literally on the same
page of the divorce decree.
Yeah.
This is where knowing about other people's exes
come in handy.
Right.
Exactly.
So I think we've covered this.
Let's talk about the exes themselves.
Okay.
All right.
Let me throw this on the table to
kind of get the party started.
(09:33):
Okay.
You know, it may not be an exactly
fun party.
Not the kind of party you'd want to
go to.
Not like the Black Eyed Peas party.
Oh, yeah.
Let's get it started.
Or, you know, it wouldn't be like pink
either.
I'm coming out, so you better get this
party started.
I would assume pink would be more fun
at a party than either of our respective
(09:54):
exes.
Oh, by a long shot.
Yes.
She's into motocross too, which is cool.
But anyway, enough about me.
Three kinds of exes.
I think there are three kinds of exes.
The good, bad, and the ugly?
Well, ugly exes are pretty easy to dismiss
because you've raised the bar, but I think
that's worth talking about.
Now, if you have interface with your ex
(10:16):
and suddenly you have a trophy for a
new boyfriend or a girlfriend, expect catty jealousy
from the ugly old ex.
Fun.
Yes.
That is ugly in and of itself for
everybody, regardless of whether your new beau or
bae is hotter or not.
It's awkward for them too.
That's a thing because hopefully we're, you know,
(10:38):
improving upon things after someone's gone from our
life.
We want to go forward instead of backward,
right?
Right.
Yeah.
We want advancement, not regression.
Yeah, exactly.
And I mean, that's not just limited to
physical beauty, of course.
It could be how successful they are, how
smart they are, how socially gifted they are,
how nice they are.
Well, it's only natural because if our exes
(10:59):
go out with somebody, our first thought is,
did they do better than us?
We can't help it, can we?
Right.
It's human nature.
Right.
It's only natural because if we see our
exes with somebody, we want to know if
that person's better than us in any way,
shape or form.
And we also want to know if they
do stuff better than us.
So it's only natural also that if we
are going with somebody, they're going to have
(11:20):
those exact same feelings.
Well, you know what the only real true
antidote is for that situation?
And I'm acknowledging 100%, by the way, that
it's hard to avoid.
Well, it's getting someone better for yourself.
Right.
Exactly.
Exactly.
I couldn't give a rat's hind parts what
my ex is doing if I'm happier now
than I was with her.
I was always happy when my ex was
(11:41):
dating.
Yeah.
You know, actually, get going.
Get out there.
Find someone.
Leave me alone.
Exactly.
Right.
Maybe you'll stop being obsessed with stuff that
is so negative if you find something positive.
That's right.
I was rooting for my ex.
I wasn't rooting for whoever my ex ended
up with, obviously, because I think they were
(12:02):
going to be in trouble because she's crazy.
But still, I was kind of hoping she'd
move on.
Yeah.
That would solve your problems.
Exactly.
At least at some level.
Right.
All right.
So three types of exes.
People are probably going to come at me
with torches and pitchforks unless I get on
with this.
All right.
First one.
Drum roll.
All right.
So you have three types of exes.
(12:23):
The first one is someone who's cordial and
trying to get along with you, probably because
you have kids together.
All right.
That's the first one.
We'll talk about them.
I'm not going to keep everybody in suspense.
All right.
Even though I'd probably keep everybody listening, I'm
not going to do that to the audience.
Here we go.
The second one is an ex who is
still enamored with you and would love to
(12:44):
have you back.
Ooh.
That's sticky.
Oh, yeah.
And the third one is someone who just
can't freaking stand you and wants you to
die in a car fire.
That's scary.
Okay.
So they don't like you anymore.
They're done with you.
They're mad.
They're angry.
They're just pissed off.
Okay.
And the second one, you'll recall, was someone
(13:05):
who was still kind of obsessed with you
and wants you back and can't get over
you.
Correct.
And the first one is someone who's like,
hey, you know, we moved on, but I
guess we have to kind of see each
other sometime.
Which one do you want to cover first?
First one.
All right.
Someone who's kind of neutral.
It's kind of like a hostage negotiation, the
hostages being your poor children.
(13:25):
Right.
So you have this handoff, peaceful handoff, hopefully,
on Friday night, Sunday night, you get back
with them.
I think that's something that the new boyfriend
or girlfriend, or, you know, wife or husband,
has to understand is going to be the
case.
This is in the best interest of the
kid.
And as long as the person isn't a
negative influence, potentially violent, or wrecking your life
(13:48):
in some crazy underhanded way, and if they
were, by the way, I'd put them under
the category of vengeful, hateful people, you know.
So assuming that there's a cordial relationship between
the exes, I think the last thing you
want to be is jealous, first of all.
I was just thinking about that.
So if your current girlfriend or boyfriend is
jealous of the ex, this would present a
(14:11):
really bad situation, because no matter how cordial
the two of you are, the current boyfriend
or girlfriend is going to be jealous, and
that's going to create its own troubles.
So you need someone who's not jealous and
can understand that being cordial is really a
good thing.
You know, and this goes both ways.
If you are the innocent bystander here, and
(14:32):
the person you're dating is bitter or jealous
of the ex who's trying to be neutral,
that's a problem unto itself, isn't it?
Exactly.
So when you're in a neutral relationship, let's
say you're in a neutral relationship, you have
a brand new girlfriend.
So the neutral relationship is between you and
your ex, like we were talking about.
Correct.
Everything's copacetic.
(14:52):
Everything's going great.
You bring in a new girlfriend into the
picture, and she's like, you still like your
ex, don't you?
Well, that's her problem if you don't.
Because every time you go to exchange the
kids or have to do something that is
cordial, you have to do business, you got
to take care of matters.
And she gets upset because she's feeling, you
know, well, maybe he'll go back to her.
Maybe she doesn't understand that people can be
(15:15):
cordial.
They don't have to end a relationship on
a bad, sour note.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, if you're in a relationship with
someone who has a cordial relationship with their
baby mama or baby daddy, and you're getting
all jealous and saying, well, what did you
two do together when you made that changeover
with the kid?
I want to ride along.
I want to be there and make sure
nothing happens.
That's your problem.
That's your problem.
You need to look in the mirror.
(15:35):
Those problems exist.
Some people don't think you should be friends
with your exes.
Well, no one's trying to be friends with
your ex.
But what about that?
Can I be friends with my ex?
Can I hang out with my ex?
Can we be social together when I'm in
a new relationship?
I've seen it happen.
Yes, but I think if you could be
friends with your ex, you could actually make
(15:55):
that relationship work.
Well, we had a situation that was weird
one time where we made friends with someone
and they invited us over to their house
and her ex was hanging out with them
because he needed a place to stay for
a while.
Yeah.
Remember that?
Yeah.
He lived with them.
I was like, what?
I got a feeling that was more to
that relationship.
Yeah, me too.
That's probably a different podcast.
We'll just chalk that one up as an
(16:17):
anomaly.
Exactly.
Because that was definitely a, yo, what the
f situation.
Maybe we don't want to be part of
this unique situation.
You know what?
I probably need one of those sound mixers
with all the sound effects.
Yes.
Because one of them's got to be, yo,
what the f, because I hear that all
the time on TikTok.
Right?
You need it.
There's got to be a button you can
press.
Hey, dogs have those buttons.
(16:38):
Really?
Yeah.
Well, they have buttons that emulate dogs.
Well, you can push and go.
I got to go potty.
Open the door for me, please.
Wow.
Now we're getting way off track.
But that's the dog trainer you need.
I think you need to host a podcast
for people who want to train their dogs.
How to go on a date with you.
Oh, yeah.
Like an emotional support.
Dating dog.
Dating dog.
Ooh, bizop.
(16:59):
You should go in that business.
You could take all of your expertise and
make emotional support dating pets.
Right?
Something like that.
This is my tarantula.
No more second dates for that guy.
No.
My emotional support piranha.
Right?
Hanging around my neck.
Dead now.
Aw.
It's close to my heart.
It's close to your heart.
Exactly.
(17:19):
Now it's an ex.
Yeah, right.
There's a Monty Python skit about a parrot
in there somewhere, I'm sure.
Okay, so you have a cordial relationship with
this person.
No jealousy is the bottom line.
This is something that's got to happen.
It's a business deal.
And everybody has to understand that.
Kind of like your emotional support tarantulas.
Right.
Bizop.
(17:40):
Okay.
Now you have a person who's desperately trying
to get back with you, and they're trying
to chase you down and hook up with
you again.
And they're trying all these sneaky little ways
to weasel their way back in your life.
But you've moved on to someone else.
Well, I would hope so.
Unless you're still doing things that would make
(18:01):
your new boyfriend, girlfriend feel jealous.
Now the way that would look- Well,
that's dysfunctional.
Well, not really.
No?
If your ex is trying to get you
back, and you're falling for the manipulation tactics,
not on purpose, but you're trying to be
a kind person, you're trying not to hurt
their feelings, and sometimes you give in to
certain demands that you shouldn't, and your current
boyfriend's calling you out on it.
(18:22):
Rightfully so.
Oh, rightfully so.
Because you're being naive and you're being silly.
Now, let's put something right out here in
the open.
A lot of times, if there's a fresh
breakup, those two do get back together again.
So if you're the rebound relationship, you better
prepare yourself like the rubber band man, right?
(18:43):
Right.
Because this person is susceptible to getting back
into that relationship, even if they said they
didn't want to or they didn't mean to,
especially if it was a long relationship that
they got out of.
Or an abusive one.
Right.
And they get dragged right back in.
They always seem to go back.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
You nailed it.
And if you're the person trying to speak
some truth to this situation, common sense-
(19:05):
Yes, common sense.
Then it's probably going to be all for
naught because, see, you're not emotionally invested in
this situation as the third wheel, all right?
Especially when there's children involved.
Well, that's another whole can of worms.
Let's cross that bridge in a second.
You're going to be speaking from a purely
logical perspective, and it's an emotional thing.
(19:26):
They're going to get back with that person,
even though they shouldn't, because their emotions got
the best of them because they got manipulated.
And it's like, honey, I miss you.
And the person was just really, really persistent
and wouldn't let you go.
Now, according to the books, that's not supposed
to work.
You're supposed to give them the gift of
missing you.
But if you give someone the gift of
missing you and they're already off with someone
(19:48):
else, that's definitely not going to work.
Right.
That's a whole different game.
That's a different ballgame.
Then we change the rules and we play
it differently.
Right, exactly.
But I ultimately think the best strategy is,
look, if you found someone better and you've
moved on, don't give that other person oxygen.
Suck that air out of the room.
(20:08):
Don't answer their calls.
Don't answer their texts.
They will do tantalizing things like, hey, I
thought of something or I found something that's
yours and dot, dot, dot.
And leaving that open loop, knowing that the
zygarnik effect is going to wreak havoc on
your imagination.
And it's just tantalizing to respond to them.
Guess what?
You still better not.
Don't open Pandora's box.
(20:29):
That's exactly what it is.
Ignore that person.
Just bite your tongue until it bleeds because
you don't want something to come in between
you and that new relationship, that new nascent
relationship that you'd like to see blossom into
something great.
And you especially don't want that to be
your ex who ruins it.
Well, actually, it won't be the ex that
ruins it.
(20:49):
It'd be yourself that ruined it.
Well, ultimately.
Because you have full control of your decisions.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's exactly right.
You can tell them, you know what?
You're out of my life.
You're done.
And leave it at that.
This conversation's over.
Yeah.
That's one of your favorite lines.
Not up for discussion.
Yeah, they just don't read the room.
If they're not going to give up, they
take the Winston Churchill approach.
They're never, ever, ever, ever going to give
(21:11):
up.
Unfortunately, couples do get back together because of
this type of manipulation.
But I tell you what, if you don't
talk to them, if you don't see them,
especially if you're not in a situation like
work or a certain social circle you're both
a member of that you're ever going to
see each other again anyway, move on.
Now, what did you used to do?
(21:32):
You used to have phone numbers.
Oh, yes.
Saved in your phone.
That was do not answer one, do not
answer two, do not answer 46, do not
answer 67.
Or sometimes they had names on it.
I recognized the name and it would pop
up.
I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm not answering that.
That was someone I went out with, you
know, two years ago or something.
Like, nope.
Well, what's implied there is you shouldn't delete
people's numbers when you break up with them.
(21:54):
Right.
That's a mistake.
Because then, you know, you get this number
and like, who the hell is this?
Because who has people's numbers memorized anymore?
That's why we have smartphones.
That's right.
So you just answer like, oops, I shouldn't
have answered that.
Yep.
There's Pandora's box.
Oh, my goodness.
My smartphone has betrayed me.
Pandora's box is opened.
Yes.
Yeah.
That's a good word there.
So the third kind of person is someone
who just can't stand you.
(22:14):
They have it in for you.
They're probably going to try to sabotage you.
There's a little bit of obsession maybe.
I mean, if it gets to be too
much, you go to a judge and get
a restraining order.
But this is really rough on the person
you're newly dating, too.
Because they don't want to see you harassed.
They don't want to see you in danger.
Well, if it's a woman who's dating the
guy who's enduring that type of situation, she
(22:37):
doesn't want to be in danger.
Her safety and security might be, you know,
she may feel unsafe.
Remember Kindergarten Cop?
Yes.
That's right.
That was the whole situation.
Right.
The woman was like…
Trying to get away from her ex.
Exactly.
Who's going to kill her or whoever she's
dating.
And she moved to a completely different state
and he found her anyway.
And of course Arnold had to save her.
That's right.
That was like the whole subplot of Kindergarten
(22:57):
Cop.
Yeah, I actually have coached at least two
people who are in that situation.
Yes.
They basically have put themselves on a self
-imposed weird iteration of a witness protection program
to keep the other person from finding them.
Get the police involved in everything.
Yeah.
Restraining orders.
For sure.
The whole nine yards.
Now listen, if there's potential violence there and
(23:20):
this person is obsessed with the person you're
now dating, that means they're going to be
obsessed with you too.
You're going to be caught in that crossfire.
You're part of the problem, buddy.
So as much as it's probably not that
person's at least direct fault or responsibility there
in that situation.
I mean, yeah, their picker was broken again.
They underestimated whoever this person was and how
(23:41):
violent they could be and how obsessed they
could get.
Yeah, but they're probably a decent person and
you'd love to go out with them and
they're probably wonderful.
But you've got to ask yourself, what's in
it for me here?
And if it's a bullet in the head,
that's not a good trade-off.
No, that's not advancing.
That's regression.
Yeah, exactly.
That's exactly true.
Well, this has been a fun conversation.
I think this is one we've never had.
(24:03):
Yeah, we've never had this conversation.
No.
And we've had exes for years.
I know.
I think it's kind of like we've sort
of just repressed the need to have this
conversation.
But after 19 years together, it's time.
I think we can handle it nowadays and
I'm sure our audience can too.
Absolutely.
We've even had our conversations about our exes
when we were dating.
(24:24):
But a lot of that was out of
curiosity because we both have exes who are
schizophrenic and so we wanted to learn a
little bit rather than looking at it from
a negative standpoint.
Yeah, and it was good for us to
know that information and have it handy about
our respective exes because we've had each other's
back over the years.
Oh, yes.
With conflicts and legal problems and borderline personality
(24:46):
disorder drama.
It was good to be two minds, two
people keeping each other in check.
One of us being the logical person to
help rein in the other person's emotional frame
of mind because it's their own ex.
Exes know how to get to you sometimes.
Yeah, but you know what?
When we were a united front, two of
us versus their drama, I think even the
(25:08):
lawyers and even our respective children knew that
was a lost cause.
Oh, yes.
Yeah, it wasn't going to happen, Captain.
And now it's long behind us.
Thank goodness.
Everybody's over 18, at least in that picture.
I'm glad we have sane children.
I know, right?
And that we're sane and we actually like
each other.
Aw.
It's helpful.
Nearly 20 years later.
Yeah, we've known each other for 19.
(25:30):
The 20th anniversary is coming up.
I know.
Yeah.
Time's flying.
Yeah, boy.
Flies when you're having fun.
Exactly.
All right, so I'd love to say we've
enjoyed having this conversation.
Oddly, it has been kind of cathartic and
fun to talk about it, hasn't it?
Oh, yes.
Yeah, absolutely.
So I'll tell you what.
If you're listening to this show on the
X and Y on the fly feed, go
to www.scottandemily.com front slash podcast and
(25:54):
get all the goodies, including, coincidentally enough, a
whole book on how to handle breakups when
it's time for you to end a relationship
with someone.
Hey, there's lots of books out there about
how to deal with being broken up with.
This is about what to do in order
to get out of a relationship.
If you've known someone for a while versus
known them just briefly, if you actually think
(26:17):
they're a good person and they really don't
deserve this breakup, they're just not your future,
versus if they've done something nasty to you
and they deserve to be broken up with,
all of that is covered.
And that's there for you at www.scottandemily
.com front slash podcast.
If you are a gentleman and you're listening
to this particular show on the Mountaintop Podcast
feed, go to www.mountaintoppodcast.com, download the
(26:39):
free book, Sticking Points Solved.
What I've done is I've taken letters from
men all over the world and answered them.
And once we ended up stitching the book
together, just about every sticking point you could
possibly think of, including this one probably, is
dealt with in that book.
That and more is there for you at
www.mountaintoppodcast.com.
While you're there, please visit our three longtime
(27:00):
sponsors, Jocko Willink's company, Origin in Maine, The
Keyport, and also Hero Soap.
And when you use the coupon code MOUNTAIN10,
get an additional 10% off your order.
So that about does it for this show.
It's been a good one.
It has been fun.
Yeah.
So until next time, this is Scott McKay.
And this is Emily McKay.
(27:20):
Be good out there.
And have fun.
The Mountaintop Podcast is produced by X&Y
Communications, all rights reserved worldwide.
Be sure to visit www.mountaintoppodcast.com for
(27:41):
show notes.
And while you're there, sign up for the
free X&Y Communications newsletter for men.
This is Ed Roy Odom speaking for The
Mountaintop Podcast.
Live from the mist-enshrouded mountaintop fortress that
is X&Y Communications Headquarters, you're listening to
the world-famous Mountaintop Podcast, and now, here's
your host, Scott McKay.
Hey, how's it going, everybody?
This is your main man, Scott McKay.
And this is Emily McKay.
And we're coming at you again with another
(00:25):
episode of The Big Show, and today, Emily,
we're going to talk about something that we've
been meaning to talk about for a while.
I don't know why it's never been covered
before, maybe because it's kind of a touchy
subject.
Oh, yeah?
What's that?
We're going to talk about how to deal
with your ex.
Ooh, that is a touchy subject.
And here's a surprise, especially when you're in
(00:46):
a relationship with someone else now.
So do we talk about our exes?
Well, you know, I don't think it's a
good idea to bring up your ex if
you don't have to.
Now, if the other person that you're now
in a relationship with says, hey, what's up
with that?
What happened there?
Why did you two break up?
It depends on how far along we are
(01:08):
in that relationship.
If it's a first-time date, it might
be a little too personal, too quick, too
fast.
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's fair on a
first date or a second date to broach
the subject, hey, why are you divorced?
Why are you single?
Because I think, you know, there may be
valid reasons why someone is single.
They may be crazy.
(01:29):
They may be violent.
Anything like that.
And especially for women trying to gauge their
safety with a guy, I can completely understand
it, even on a first date.
But it is awkward conversation.
If it's a second or third date, that
would be better.
Yeah, fair enough.
I mean, if you're on the first date,
you just want to make sure you're having
fun and that you even get along.
I mean, nowadays, that's a big enough hurdle
to cross, isn't it?
(01:49):
Well, I know.
Especially if the divorce didn't go well or
if the other person was just, you know,
there's some embarrassing things that may have happened.
It may be too personal because you may
only go on this date once and never
see them again.
And you don't want to spill your life
and soul to someone you'll never see again
and never really have a relationship.
Yeah, especially if you're not really actually divorced
yet.
(02:10):
Ouch.
That's right.
I didn't even think about that.
You're right.
Yeah, this person and I, we just don't
get along.
We sleep in the same bed at night.
But hey, I'm glad you're here and we're
on this date.
Next!
Next.
Well, all right.
So let's say you have gone through a
couple of dates, we've resolved why we're single
(02:30):
again or divorced.
I mean, some people get out of a
long-term relationship and it feels like a
divorce.
Some people have just been single for a
long time and haven't found the right one
and that's okay.
But specifically, when you do have an ex
in your life, it can get awkward anytime
that ex comes up.
Now, if you have children and dad or
mom is still in their life, then if
(02:51):
you're dating someone, there may be these exchanges
where they pick up the kid on Saturday
and give them back on Sunday, weekends, summers,
et cetera.
They're going to see their ex again sometimes.
So I mean, in my mind, we have
to get over it.
Right, because everyone's had a past and everybody's
had other relationships.
(03:11):
Just get into the details.
I totally understand why you want to know
why someone's divorced, why your relationship didn't work
out, why you broke up, why you're not
boyfriend and girlfriend anymore.
Were you the person who offended the relationship
and caused the separation?
Because that might be a red flag that
this person may not be a great companion.
Yeah, they might not be relationship ready at
all.
Exactly.
(03:32):
But then again, they may have been the
victim of it.
And it's nice to know that they will
make a great companion.
Or maybe they've realized what part they played
in contributing towards the demise of the relationship
and they've grown and matured from it.
That's a good sign.
Yeah, I think that's a good sign.
But what about if the person's heart was
broken and they were jilted and they're just
(03:54):
not over this person yet?
Oh, yeah.
Well, that just reminds me that that could
be where, you know, you might remind them
of that person and they're constantly thinking that
you remind them of these particular traits.
Oh, men are comparing you to them all
the time.
Right.
That's hard to do.
I really miss my ex-boyfriend because he
used to do this nice thing for me
(04:14):
and you don't do that.
Or you just did something, a mannerism or
whatever, that reminds me of him.
That's like a big dull moment.
It's like just, you know, and it's awkward
because you want them to shut up.
And it's like, you know, I'm right here.
But they just can't help themselves because guess
what?
That other person is still at the forefront
of their mind.
But usually that's not the case.
A lot of times most people don't get
(04:36):
along with their exes.
They don't feel warm fuzzies towards their exes.
Yeah, I think that's usually true.
Otherwise they wouldn't have broken up.
I mean, and I say this with some
trepidation, especially if you're out with someone really
sharp and has everything going for them, they're
probably the one who does most of the
breaking up in their life.
I know by the time you and I
met each other, we were both respectively doing
(04:57):
most of the ending of relationships short or
long term in our respective lives when we
met each other.
True.
We were.
Right.
And so there was no hard feelings there.
Right.
If someone is bouncing in and out of
relationships where they're constantly getting their heart broken,
they're probably either really needy or really clingy
or exhibiting signs of just not being well,
(05:18):
whoever they're dating's future.
In some way they're because of their erratic
behavior or whatever.
Or maybe they have a bad choice in
men.
Yeah.
Like a bad picker.
Their picker's broken, right?
Yeah.
So, you know, they're constantly getting their heart
broken.
That could mean, you know, you're next.
You're the next bad person they pick.
I wonder if that would mean if I'm
(05:38):
the next bad person they pick, maybe I'm
just not the right person.
You are a bad picked, not a bad
picker.
I'm not sure which one's worse.
Well, I mean, it's probably not your own
fault.
This person's just gravitating towards people they're going
to be fundamentally incompatible with.
And, you know, either they're putting up a
good front, they're not being completely honest, right?
(05:58):
That they're presenting themselves to be something they're
not.
And when you find out that they're not
who they represented themselves to be, well, they're
gone.
And voila, the pattern continues, their heart's broken
again.
Right?
Now, there's another thing that I was just
reminded of.
A lot of times we go on a
date and we're really curious and we're asking
the questions and we're trying to figure out
how to ask the questions.
(06:18):
But then there's the opposite problem.
When you meet someone, they won't shut up
about their ex.
Well, that's a situation where you're not going
to have a second date.
That person's got some learning to do.
I mean, we just did a masterclass a
couple of nights ago from when this particular
show is being released called Read the Room.
Man, what a solid classic example of a
(06:41):
read the room moment.
You're on a first date and you're going
on and on and on about your ex.
First, the person sitting across the table from
you, their eyes glaze over.
Second of all, they're looking for the waiter
so they can find an escape hatch, you
know, check please.
Third, they're just going to look at you
and glare and go, you know, please.
Can we stop?
And they may even drop the hints.
(07:01):
And if you go on and on, well,
guess what?
Read the room.
Well, I think some of those relationships actually
continue on for several months before someone gets
fed up and sick and tired of it.
You mean someone could actually outlast several months
of someone going on and on about their
ex all the time?
I think they can do that.
They'd have to be mighty desperate.
I don't know.
I mean, maybe they figured, well, you know,
she's had a hard life or, you know,
(07:23):
he was treated wrongly.
I can understand this as a fresh wound.
I can, you know, overlook that.
Well, it would just be an enabler at
that point.
Well, it happens, unfortunately.
I know, it does, it does, doesn't it?
Well, all right.
So I think we pretty much resolved here
that we shouldn't go around talking about our
exes pretending it's just social lubrication, like nice
first date conversation.
(07:44):
It's not.
It's not.
You know, basically, if it's something that comes
up on a first or second date, I
wouldn't sweep it under the carpet because that
says maybe it might be a red flag
to the other person.
I'm trying to hide something.
Right.
And maybe you're not.
But notwithstanding that, I once went out on
a first date with a woman who wasn't
really sure if she was single or not
because the courts had kind of emancipated her,
(08:07):
for lack of a better word, because they
didn't know whether her husband was alive or
dead.
Wow.
As it turned out, he was in the
cartel and just went missing.
Disappeared.
Yeah, right.
And she had been doing like drug runs
with him and stuff.
Oh, boy.
Okay.
So at least now I know why you're
single.
You know, she reported and I decided.
I decided there wouldn't be a second date,
but, you know, that was kind of a
rare situation.
(08:29):
But yeah, I mean, if it comes up
on a first date or a second date
or it's obviously awkwardly too early to discuss
it, I would say keep it very cordial
and very succinct.
Here's what happened and why.
What about you?
I hope they don't go on for ages.
Right.
Just keep it basic.
Keep the facts.
Don't have to.
You're not.
You're not marrying this person today.
(08:50):
They don't deserve all the gory details.
Well, you know, here we are.
We're a little bit hypocritical because on our
first date, we talked about our exes, but
it was one of those short conversations.
Why are you single?
Well, because my ex is schizophrenic and bipolar
and it was like the Spider-Man meme.
We started pointing at each other going, wow,
you too?
It was a pretty brief, concise conversation where
(09:11):
we suddenly got it.
We got each other.
We realized, hey, you know what?
I have an understanding of you.
Exactly.
You and I are literally on the same
page of the divorce decree.
Yeah.
This is where knowing about other people's exes
come in handy.
Right.
Exactly.
So I think we've covered this.
Let's talk about the exes themselves.
Okay.
All right.
Let me throw this on the table to
kind of get the party started.
(09:33):
Okay.
You know, it may not be an exactly
fun party.
Not the kind of party you'd want to
go to.
Not like the Black Eyed Peas party.
Oh, yeah.
Let's get it started.
Or, you know, it wouldn't be like pink
either.
I'm coming out, so you better get this
party started.
I would assume pink would be more fun
at a party than either of our respective
(09:54):
exes.
Oh, by a long shot.
Yes.
She's into motocross too, which is cool.
But anyway, enough about me.
Three kinds of exes.
I think there are three kinds of exes.
The good, bad, and the ugly?
Well, ugly exes are pretty easy to dismiss
because you've raised the bar, but I think
that's worth talking about.
Now, if you have interface with your ex
(10:16):
and suddenly you have a trophy for a
new boyfriend or a girlfriend, expect catty jealousy
from the ugly old ex.
Fun.
Yes.
That is ugly in and of itself for
everybody, regardless of whether your new beau or
bae is hotter or not.
It's awkward for them too.
That's a thing because hopefully we're, you know,
(10:38):
improving upon things after someone's gone from our
life.
We want to go forward instead of backward,
right?
Right.
Yeah.
We want advancement, not regression.
Yeah, exactly.
And I mean, that's not just limited to
physical beauty, of course.
It could be how successful they are, how
smart they are, how socially gifted they are,
how nice they are.
Well, it's only natural because if our exes
(10:59):
go out with somebody, our first thought is,
did they do better than us?
We can't help it, can we?
Right.
It's human nature.
Right.
It's only natural because if we see our
exes with somebody, we want to know if
that person's better than us in any way,
shape or form.
And we also want to know if they
do stuff better than us.
So it's only natural also that if we
are going with somebody, they're going to have
(11:20):
those exact same feelings.
Well, you know what the only real true
antidote is for that situation?
And I'm acknowledging 100%, by the way, that
it's hard to avoid.
Well, it's getting someone better for yourself.
Right.
Exactly.
Exactly.
I couldn't give a rat's hind parts what
my ex is doing if I'm happier now
than I was with her.
I was always happy when my ex was
(11:41):
dating.
Yeah.
You know, actually, get going.
Get out there.
Find someone.
Leave me alone.
Exactly.
Right.
Maybe you'll stop being obsessed with stuff that
is so negative if you find something positive.
That's right.
I was rooting for my ex.
I wasn't rooting for whoever my ex ended
up with, obviously, because I think they were
(12:02):
going to be in trouble because she's crazy.
But still, I was kind of hoping she'd
move on.
Yeah.
That would solve your problems.
Exactly.
At least at some level.
Right.
All right.
So three types of exes.
People are probably going to come at me
with torches and pitchforks unless I get on
with this.
All right.
First one.
Drum roll.
All right.
So you have three types of exes.
(12:23):
The first one is someone who's cordial and
trying to get along with you, probably because
you have kids together.
All right.
That's the first one.
We'll talk about them.
I'm not going to keep everybody in suspense.
All right.
Even though I'd probably keep everybody listening, I'm
not going to do that to the audience.
Here we go.
The second one is an ex who is
still enamored with you and would love to
(12:44):
have you back.
Ooh.
That's sticky.
Oh, yeah.
And the third one is someone who just
can't freaking stand you and wants you to
die in a car fire.
That's scary.
Okay.
So they don't like you anymore.
They're done with you.
They're mad.
They're angry.
They're just pissed off.
Okay.
And the second one, you'll recall, was someone
(13:05):
who was still kind of obsessed with you
and wants you back and can't get over
you.
Correct.
And the first one is someone who's like,
hey, you know, we moved on, but I
guess we have to kind of see each
other sometime.
Which one do you want to cover first?
First one.
All right.
Someone who's kind of neutral.
It's kind of like a hostage negotiation, the
hostages being your poor children.
(13:25):
Right.
So you have this handoff, peaceful handoff, hopefully,
on Friday night, Sunday night, you get back
with them.
I think that's something that the new boyfriend
or girlfriend, or, you know, wife or husband,
has to understand is going to be the
case.
This is in the best interest of the
kid.
And as long as the person isn't a
negative influence, potentially violent, or wrecking your life
(13:48):
in some crazy underhanded way, and if they
were, by the way, I'd put them under
the category of vengeful, hateful people, you know.
So assuming that there's a cordial relationship between
the exes, I think the last thing you
want to be is jealous, first of all.
I was just thinking about that.
So if your current girlfriend or boyfriend is
jealous of the ex, this would present a
(14:11):
really bad situation, because no matter how cordial
the two of you are, the current boyfriend
or girlfriend is going to be jealous, and
that's going to create its own troubles.
So you need someone who's not jealous and
can understand that being cordial is really a
good thing.
You know, and this goes both ways.
If you are the innocent bystander here, and
(14:32):
the person you're dating is bitter or jealous
of the ex who's trying to be neutral,
that's a problem unto itself, isn't it?
Exactly.
So when you're in a neutral relationship, let's
say you're in a neutral relationship, you have
a brand new girlfriend.
So the neutral relationship is between you and
your ex, like we were talking about.
Correct.
Everything's copacetic.
(14:52):
Everything's going great.
You bring in a new girlfriend into the
picture, and she's like, you still like your
ex, don't you?
Well, that's her problem if you don't.
Because every time you go to exchange the
kids or have to do something that is
cordial, you have to do business, you got
to take care of matters.
And she gets upset because she's feeling, you
know, well, maybe he'll go back to her.
Maybe she doesn't understand that people can be
(15:15):
cordial.
They don't have to end a relationship on
a bad, sour note.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, if you're in a relationship with
someone who has a cordial relationship with their
baby mama or baby daddy, and you're getting
all jealous and saying, well, what did you
two do together when you made that changeover
with the kid?
I want to ride along.
I want to be there and make sure
nothing happens.
That's your problem.
That's your problem.
You need to look in the mirror.
(15:35):
Those problems exist.
Some people don't think you should be friends
with your exes.
Well, no one's trying to be friends with
your ex.
But what about that?
Can I be friends with my ex?
Can I hang out with my ex?
Can we be social together when I'm in
a new relationship?
I've seen it happen.
Yes, but I think if you could be
friends with your ex, you could actually make
(15:55):
that relationship work.
Well, we had a situation that was weird
one time where we made friends with someone
and they invited us over to their house
and her ex was hanging out with them
because he needed a place to stay for
a while.
Yeah.
Remember that?
Yeah.
He lived with them.
I was like, what?
I got a feeling that was more to
that relationship.
Yeah, me too.
That's probably a different podcast.
We'll just chalk that one up as an
(16:17):
anomaly.
Exactly.
Because that was definitely a, yo, what the
f situation.
Maybe we don't want to be part of
this unique situation.
You know what?
I probably need one of those sound mixers
with all the sound effects.
Yes.
Because one of them's got to be, yo,
what the f, because I hear that all
the time on TikTok.
Right?
You need it.
There's got to be a button you can
press.
Hey, dogs have those buttons.
(16:38):
Really?
Yeah.
Well, they have buttons that emulate dogs.
Well, you can push and go.
I got to go potty.
Open the door for me, please.
Wow.
Now we're getting way off track.
But that's the dog trainer you need.
I think you need to host a podcast
for people who want to train their dogs.
How to go on a date with you.
Oh, yeah.
Like an emotional support.
Dating dog.
Dating dog.
Ooh, bizop.
(16:59):
You should go in that business.
You could take all of your expertise and
make emotional support dating pets.
Right?
Something like that.
This is my tarantula.
No more second dates for that guy.
No.
My emotional support piranha.
Right?
Hanging around my neck.
Dead now.
Aw.
It's close to my heart.
It's close to your heart.
Exactly.
(17:19):
Now it's an ex.
Yeah, right.
There's a Monty Python skit about a parrot
in there somewhere, I'm sure.
Okay, so you have a cordial relationship with
this person.
No jealousy is the bottom line.
This is something that's got to happen.
It's a business deal.
And everybody has to understand that.
Kind of like your emotional support tarantulas.
Right.
Bizop.
(17:40):
Okay.
Now you have a person who's desperately trying
to get back with you, and they're trying
to chase you down and hook up with
you again.
And they're trying all these sneaky little ways
to weasel their way back in your life.
But you've moved on to someone else.
Well, I would hope so.
Unless you're still doing things that would make
(18:01):
your new boyfriend, girlfriend feel jealous.
Now the way that would look- Well,
that's dysfunctional.
Well, not really.
No?
If your ex is trying to get you
back, and you're falling for the manipulation tactics,
not on purpose, but you're trying to be
a kind person, you're trying not to hurt
their feelings, and sometimes you give in to
certain demands that you shouldn't, and your current
boyfriend's calling you out on it.
(18:22):
Rightfully so.
Oh, rightfully so.
Because you're being naive and you're being silly.
Now, let's put something right out here in
the open.
A lot of times, if there's a fresh
breakup, those two do get back together again.
So if you're the rebound relationship, you better
prepare yourself like the rubber band man, right?
(18:43):
Right.
Because this person is susceptible to getting back
into that relationship, even if they said they
didn't want to or they didn't mean to,
especially if it was a long relationship that
they got out of.
Or an abusive one.
Right.
And they get dragged right back in.
They always seem to go back.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
You nailed it.
And if you're the person trying to speak
some truth to this situation, common sense-
(19:05):
Yes, common sense.
Then it's probably going to be all for
naught because, see, you're not emotionally invested in
this situation as the third wheel, all right?
Especially when there's children involved.
Well, that's another whole can of worms.
Let's cross that bridge in a second.
You're going to be speaking from a purely
logical perspective, and it's an emotional thing.
(19:26):
They're going to get back with that person,
even though they shouldn't, because their emotions got
the best of them because they got manipulated.
And it's like, honey, I miss you.
And the person was just really, really persistent
and wouldn't let you go.
Now, according to the books, that's not supposed
to work.
You're supposed to give them the gift of
missing you.
But if you give someone the gift of
missing you and they're already off with someone
(19:48):
else, that's definitely not going to work.
Right.
That's a whole different game.
That's a different ballgame.
Then we change the rules and we play
it differently.
Right, exactly.
But I ultimately think the best strategy is,
look, if you found someone better and you've
moved on, don't give that other person oxygen.
Suck that air out of the room.
(20:08):
Don't answer their calls.
Don't answer their texts.
They will do tantalizing things like, hey, I
thought of something or I found something that's
yours and dot, dot, dot.
And leaving that open loop, knowing that the
zygarnik effect is going to wreak havoc on
your imagination.
And it's just tantalizing to respond to them.
Guess what?
You still better not.
Don't open Pandora's box.
(20:29):
That's exactly what it is.
Ignore that person.
Just bite your tongue until it bleeds because
you don't want something to come in between
you and that new relationship, that new nascent
relationship that you'd like to see blossom into
something great.
And you especially don't want that to be
your ex who ruins it.
Well, actually, it won't be the ex that
ruins it.
(20:49):
It'd be yourself that ruined it.
Well, ultimately.
Because you have full control of your decisions.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's exactly right.
You can tell them, you know what?
You're out of my life.
You're done.
And leave it at that.
This conversation's over.
Yeah.
That's one of your favorite lines.
Not up for discussion.
Yeah, they just don't read the room.
If they're not going to give up, they
take the Winston Churchill approach.
They're never, ever, ever, ever going to give
(21:11):
up.
Unfortunately, couples do get back together because of
this type of manipulation.
But I tell you what, if you don't
talk to them, if you don't see them,
especially if you're not in a situation like
work or a certain social circle you're both
a member of that you're ever going to
see each other again anyway, move on.
Now, what did you used to do?
(21:32):
You used to have phone numbers.
Oh, yes.
Saved in your phone.
That was do not answer one, do not
answer two, do not answer 46, do not
answer 67.
Or sometimes they had names on it.
I recognized the name and it would pop
up.
I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm not answering that.
That was someone I went out with, you
know, two years ago or something.
Like, nope.
Well, what's implied there is you shouldn't delete
people's numbers when you break up with them.
(21:54):
Right.
That's a mistake.
Because then, you know, you get this number
and like, who the hell is this?
Because who has people's numbers memorized anymore?
That's why we have smartphones.
That's right.
So you just answer like, oops, I shouldn't
have answered that.
Yep.
There's Pandora's box.
Oh, my goodness.
My smartphone has betrayed me.
Pandora's box is opened.
Yes.
Yeah.
That's a good word there.
So the third kind of person is someone
who just can't stand you.
(22:14):
They have it in for you.
They're probably going to try to sabotage you.
There's a little bit of obsession maybe.
I mean, if it gets to be too
much, you go to a judge and get
a restraining order.
But this is really rough on the person
you're newly dating, too.
Because they don't want to see you harassed.
They don't want to see you in danger.
Well, if it's a woman who's dating the
guy who's enduring that type of situation, she
(22:37):
doesn't want to be in danger.
Her safety and security might be, you know,
she may feel unsafe.
Remember Kindergarten Cop?
Yes.
That's right.
That was the whole situation.
Right.
The woman was like…
Trying to get away from her ex.
Exactly.
Who's going to kill her or whoever she's
dating.
And she moved to a completely different state
and he found her anyway.
And of course Arnold had to save her.
That's right.
That was like the whole subplot of Kindergarten
(22:57):
Cop.
Yeah, I actually have coached at least two
people who are in that situation.
Yes.
They basically have put themselves on a self
-imposed weird iteration of a witness protection program
to keep the other person from finding them.
Get the police involved in everything.
Yeah.
Restraining orders.
For sure.
The whole nine yards.
Now listen, if there's potential violence there and
(23:20):
this person is obsessed with the person you're
now dating, that means they're going to be
obsessed with you too.
You're going to be caught in that crossfire.
You're part of the problem, buddy.
So as much as it's probably not that
person's at least direct fault or responsibility there
in that situation.
I mean, yeah, their picker was broken again.
They underestimated whoever this person was and how
(23:41):
violent they could be and how obsessed they
could get.
Yeah, but they're probably a decent person and
you'd love to go out with them and
they're probably wonderful.
But you've got to ask yourself, what's in
it for me here?
And if it's a bullet in the head,
that's not a good trade-off.
No, that's not advancing.
That's regression.
Yeah, exactly.
That's exactly true.
Well, this has been a fun conversation.
I think this is one we've never had.
(24:03):
Yeah, we've never had this conversation.
No.
And we've had exes for years.
I know.
I think it's kind of like we've sort
of just repressed the need to have this
conversation.
But after 19 years together, it's time.
I think we can handle it nowadays and
I'm sure our audience can too.
Absolutely.
We've even had our conversations about our exes
when we were dating.
(24:24):
But a lot of that was out of
curiosity because we both have exes who are
schizophrenic and so we wanted to learn a
little bit rather than looking at it from
a negative standpoint.
Yeah, and it was good for us to
know that information and have it handy about
our respective exes because we've had each other's
back over the years.
Oh, yes.
With conflicts and legal problems and borderline personality
(24:46):
disorder drama.
It was good to be two minds, two
people keeping each other in check.
One of us being the logical person to
help rein in the other person's emotional frame
of mind because it's their own ex.
Exes know how to get to you sometimes.
Yeah, but you know what?
When we were a united front, two of
us versus their drama, I think even the
(25:08):
lawyers and even our respective children knew that
was a lost cause.
Oh, yes.
Yeah, it wasn't going to happen, Captain.
And now it's long behind us.
Thank goodness.
Everybody's over 18, at least in that picture.
I'm glad we have sane children.
I know, right?
And that we're sane and we actually like
each other.
Aw.
It's helpful.
Nearly 20 years later.
Yeah, we've known each other for 19.
(25:30):
The 20th anniversary is coming up.
I know.
Yeah.
Time's flying.
Yeah, boy.
Flies when you're having fun.
Exactly.
All right, so I'd love to say we've
enjoyed having this conversation.
Oddly, it has been kind of cathartic and
fun to talk about it, hasn't it?
Oh, yes.
Yeah, absolutely.
So I'll tell you what.
If you're listening to this show on the
X and Y on the fly feed, go
to www.scottandemily.com front slash podcast and
(25:54):
get all the goodies, including, coincidentally enough, a
whole book on how to handle breakups when
it's time for you to end a relationship
with someone.
Hey, there's lots of books out there about
how to deal with being broken up with.
This is about what to do in order
to get out of a relationship.
If you've known someone for a while versus
known them just briefly, if you actually think
(26:17):
they're a good person and they really don't
deserve this breakup, they're just not your future,
versus if they've done something nasty to you
and they deserve to be broken up with,
all of that is covered.
And that's there for you at www.scottandemily
.com front slash podcast.
If you are a gentleman and you're listening
to this particular show on the Mountaintop Podcast
feed, go to www.mountaintoppodcast.com, download the
(26:39):
free book, Sticking Points Solved.
What I've done is I've taken letters from
men all over the world and answered them.
And once we ended up stitching the book
together, just about every sticking point you could
possibly think of, including this one probably, is
dealt with in that book.
That and more is there for you at
www.mountaintoppodcast.com.
While you're there, please visit our three longtime
(27:00):
sponsors, Jocko Willink's company, Origin in Maine, The
Keyport, and also Hero Soap.
And when you use the coupon code MOUNTAIN10,
get an additional 10% off your order.
So that about does it for this show.
It's been a good one.
It has been fun.
Yeah.
So until next time, this is Scott McKay.
And this is Emily McKay.
(27:20):
Be good out there.
And have fun.
The Mountaintop Podcast is produced by X&Y
Communications, all rights reserved worldwide.
Be sure to visit www.mountaintoppodcast.com for
(27:41):
show notes.
And while you're there, sign up for the
free X&Y Communications newsletter for men.
This is Ed Roy Odom speaking for The
Mountaintop Podcast.
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