Episode 295. A Compressor Story: The Key to Faster Troubleshooting

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 9 (00:00):
What's up everyone? Welcome back to the Refrigeration Minter podcast. I hope you're doing awesome. I hope you're crushing out there. I know you're crushing out there because day in, day out being a refrigeration technician is a lot of work. And this next episode we're gonna dive into one of my favorite topics, compressors.

(00:01):
What's up everyone? Welcome back to the Refrigeration Minter podcast. I hope you're doing awesome. I hope you're crushing out there. I know you're crushing out there because day in, day out being a refrigeration technician is a lot of work. And this next episode we're gonna dive into one of my favorite topics, compressors.
Again, I love talking about compressors 'cause gimme a really good understanding how a system worked. This episode's from the 2022 HVEC symposium, hanging out with my good friends down at Klos and Brian or and his team. I did this conversation on a compressor story. We know every compressor has a story. I talk about this in our Compressor Masterclass on earth supermarket programs, but we know.
That when that compressor has failed or stops working something in the system cause it an issue. And then there's a story behind that. And when you can figure out that story, when you can investigate that story and figure out that's where you find the root cause of an issue. Had a lot of fun with this conversation.
If you like it, if you get, take something out of it, head to apple or Spotify and like this podcast. And leave a comment. I love finding out what you, your takeaways are because it's so, so huge. For that. We're also head out to the refrigeration mentor.com website. We just launched our refrigeration mentor hub where you can dive in there.
If you like it, if you get, take something out of it, head to apple or Spotify and like this podcast. And leave a comment. I love finding out what you, your takeaways are because it's so, so huge. For that. We're also head out to the refrigeration mentor.com website. We just launched our refrigeration mentor hub where you can dive in there.
We got some ambassadors. We're doing challenges gamifying stuff to really help involve more technicians who care about the industry to get really to the next level in your career. Looking forward to meet you in the refrigeration mentor hub. Now let's get a conversation going.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
My talk today is gonna be on compressors. It's called a Compressor Story. And because I really believe that every system has a story, and as a technician, we need to understand that story. And when you start understanding the story of the system, you can troubleshoot it quicker, you can troubleshoot it faster and be more effective and confident at your job.
I'm a first generation refrigeration mechanic. So started out in. 2004. Didn't know what refrigeration was, didn't know what, what HVAC was. Didn't have an air conditioner in my house. I went to the grocery store and things were just, I picked up, it was already cold.
And in 2004 I met a guy when I was going back to school, 'cause I did go to college, I did go to university, try to get a job there and I just didn't work out. And because I had to go to employment agency to try to find work after going to all the school, spending all this money. So went back to the school and I met a guy and he said, I'm gonna do a refrigeration.
And in 2004 I met a guy when I was going back to school, 'cause I did go to college, I did go to university, try to get a job there and I just didn't work out. And because I had to go to employment agency to try to find work after going to all the school, spending all this money. So went back to the school and I met a guy and he said, I'm gonna do a refrigeration.
You can travel and you can make money. Ding, ding, ding. I was really focused on that. So 2004, I took my first H-V-A-C-R program and I start to like refrigeration and HVAC. From there, I spent 10 years in the field working in supermarket, refrigeration, commercial refrigeration. I got a license for Australia.
I worked all over Australia doing refrigeration. Great experience. What's great about this trade, what's great about refrigeration is that there's so much opportunity. You put the effort in. You can go anywhere in the world, you can make a pile of money if you want it. You can live the life that you want.
And it's really important to understand that because the more work you put in, the better off it's gonna be. Back in 2014, after I've done a lot of the field work, I started to have kids and I'm like, an opportunity came up at a company called Copeland. I knew who Copeland was, but actually it was for Emerson.
And it's really important to understand that because the more work you put in, the better off it's gonna be. Back in 2014, after I've done a lot of the field work, I started to have kids and I'm like, an opportunity came up at a company called Copeland. I knew who Copeland was, but actually it was for Emerson.
And this opportunity came up and I was very scared. I'm like, what do I do? You know, should I take this massive pay cut and go work at a manufacturer and do something different or stay in the field? 'cause I love the tools. I love working on the tools. I love fixing equipment. I love helping those customers out when I fixed their equipment and how happy they were and say, man, I had three technicians here before you and you're the first technician that understood my problem and fixed the problem.
So I took this chance and I spent, I went to Copeland and I worked at this company for seven years. I. As business development as a lead field support as the national trainer. So it was called HVAC training and Development Specialist. And my role was to go around and train manufacturers, train technician contractors, wholesalers on systems, refrigeration on compressors.
So I have a little bit of experience behind me. Am I an expert? I don't believe I'm an expert. I'm still learning every day, just like all of you. And today I want to talk about the story of a system, the story of a compressor. A few of the things that we're gonna go through, we're gonna, we're gonna break down stories.
So I have a little bit of experience behind me. Am I an expert? I don't believe I'm an expert. I'm still learning every day, just like all of you. And today I want to talk about the story of a system, the story of a compressor. A few of the things that we're gonna go through, we're gonna, we're gonna break down stories.
The stories that you do day in, day out when you're in the field. Because every time you're on a call, there's a story behind that call. And we want you, when you start breaking down, that you start to get to understand the equipment a bit more. And when you understand equipment a bit more, it makes your job easier.
Because I know when I was in the field. I wasn't that confident all the time. I would walk into a room, a rack or parallel rack system. There was thousands of valves, there's dozens of compressors, there's pipes going everywhere, and I wasn't very confident. It took many, many years. I'm not scared to admit it, like seven, eight years before I started feeling confident going on call.
And even at, even at the 10 year mark, I still had some jitters depending on if I'd never been on that type of system when I was told about it. So we're gonna talk about the story. We're gonna get into how to prevent that story from happening again. How to prevent these compressors from failing a second or a third time.
And even at, even at the 10 year mark, I still had some jitters depending on if I'd never been on that type of system when I was told about it. So we're gonna talk about the story. We're gonna get into how to prevent that story from happening again. How to prevent these compressors from failing a second or a third time.
I'm very passionate about refrigeration and I really enjoy talking to other technicians about this. So let's try to make this an interactive session. We're gonna do a tear down. We don't have much space here, so what we'll do, we'll do our best. We'll, I'll grab a couple volunteers, we'll put it out here.
We'll put, we will we've got some bolts loosen already, but I want to talk through the process. And I want to ask the questions on what would you do if this compressor wasn't working? And let's work through it together as a team. 'cause our industry, you need to be working as a team. When you work in a team environment, you get more stuff done, you feel more confident.
And when you go to a call, you can complete that job a bit quicker. Maybe you're a phone call away to your tech, to that journeyman, to that buddy, and maybe you just need to shoot, you know, just ask him some questions. I've seen this a lot. I've seen doing support. Many technicians where they call me up and they tell me the answer and they're like, oh, that's the answer.
They just need to to say it out loud. So maybe you have to do that sometimes. So we'll do the tear down, we'll talk about it. We're gonna do a picture rapid fire. So I'm gonna put up some pictures and I'm gonna ask you what caused that failure? What caused that story? What caused that issue? And then we're gonna get into some resources that I use that you should be using if you're not using, invest in yourself and do a little bit more learning.
They just need to to say it out loud. So maybe you have to do that sometimes. So we'll do the tear down, we'll talk about it. We're gonna do a picture rapid fire. So I'm gonna put up some pictures and I'm gonna ask you what caused that failure? What caused that story? What caused that issue? And then we're gonna get into some resources that I use that you should be using if you're not using, invest in yourself and do a little bit more learning.
I'm not standing here today because I didn't do any learning. I spent years in enforcing myself. Sometimes I didn't wanna learn some of the stuff and it was hard and I didn't want to do it, but I did it because I knew I wanted to help others. I want to train and educate others and hopefully I can teach you at least one thing today.
My goal here today is you take one thing away, even if it's just, oh, like i's good looking. You know, if you take that away, that could be it. Right. Okay. And then continuing the learning journey. We'll talk about at the end. Okay. Types of mechanical issues. We're gonna get into mechanical issues because this is one of the things when compressors have issues and you have a failed compressor, I was there, I was in the field, and I've done it for many years.
I'd go up to the compressor. It's electrically failed. It's burned out. That compressor is not working anymore. So you, you cut it, take it out, you bring it back to the suppliers, the wholesaler, and you say, I gotta burn out. I, I gotta, I gotta electrical failure. I need a new compressor. But what caused that failure?
I'd go up to the compressor. It's electrically failed. It's burned out. That compressor is not working anymore. So you, you cut it, take it out, you bring it back to the suppliers, the wholesaler, and you say, I gotta burn out. I, I gotta, I gotta electrical failure. I need a new compressor. But what caused that failure?
And this is what you need to do. What is the story behind that electrical issue? Because the electrical issue or electrical failure is second or third cause of failure, not the first cause there, there is, when we talk about turn to turn, short phase to phase, short ground at compressor, there's a lot of electrical types of failures.
But usually it's a system related issue. So what is that story? Because 80% of the time we think it's an electrical failure, but 80% of the time it's that mechanical failure that caused the electrical failure. And this is what you need to understand. What is the story behind that compressor, sir? So what is this?
It might be hard to see what, what, what's wrong with this picture? What issues do you see with this compressor? This is a scroll compressor. Did anybody tell Go ahead. Damage in the center? Okay, well no, that's actually okay. I heard it over here. That's. Copper plating. Okay, what causes copper Plating? Acid.
It might be hard to see what, what, what's wrong with this picture? What issues do you see with this compressor? This is a scroll compressor. Did anybody tell Go ahead. Damage in the center? Okay, well no, that's actually okay. I heard it over here. That's. Copper plating. Okay, what causes copper Plating? Acid.
He can, but acid. How does acid, so now we're getting into the story. We got copper plating. It's caused by acid. What, how do you get acid in the system? Moisture. How does the moisture get in the system? Bad vacuum. Bad Vacuum, bad evacuation. That, that's the, the high level of it. You could have, you know, you know, a broken braised plate, heat exchanger or something in there on a chiller.
But it is really that installation. Right? So now we're starting to get to the story. Copper plating is something that I didn't really know about until I did that. I worked at Copeland and I work with the experts and I still have good connections with them there. They send me pictures all the time and say, Trevor, you need to get this information out to the technicians because it's just costing them time and money and stress.
But this is copper plating. So we, we figured out a bit of a story, but do you think this technician knew there was copper plating in that compressor? There's no sight glass on this compressor, you know? So this compressor was electrically failed compressor. So here's the story that you need to understand.
But this is copper plating. So we, we figured out a bit of a story, but do you think this technician knew there was copper plating in that compressor? There's no sight glass on this compressor, you know? So this compressor was electrically failed compressor. So here's the story that you need to understand.
So now, if they didn't look inside this compressor, they didn't know there was acid in the system, what do they need to do now on a system like that? If they didn't look into it and or say they do, did look into how do I fix that system? Now what do I need to do? Flush it. Flush, flush it. Okay, flush. What else do you need to do?
An acid dryer. The acid dryer if you need to, what else do you need to do? Acid test. Do an acid test, maybe afterwards, depending on the size of the system. Now, if you're on a little tiny system that's this big, and the asset test cost more than the system, then it's a different story. But when you're talk on larger residential units, commercial systems, this is part of your job.
And as a technician, you need to think about these things that I didn't think about in the field. You need to write down. We do need to do a follow up call. On here, because if I don't check if there's acid in there after a few days, a few weeks, a few months, how long is that other one gonna last? And then you gotta go back and replace it anyway.
And as a technician, you need to think about these things that I didn't think about in the field. You need to write down. We do need to do a follow up call. On here, because if I don't check if there's acid in there after a few days, a few weeks, a few months, how long is that other one gonna last? And then you gotta go back and replace it anyway.
And this is why you need to educate your customers. There's some customers that you're know, they're, you're not gonna get through to them, but you as a technician need to protect yourself and be very straight with the customer. This is what you do need. Because they don't know. They don't know.
They just see the price a lot of the time. So this story here is that now if the technician would open that up, looked inside and said, okay, I know I need to do a flush in that system. 'cause maybe it didn't really smell. We know that there's copper plating that was due to acid, due to improper installation.
So there's a bit of a story there, right? And this here, once again, is an electrical failure, right? So now, if you don't have a cycl glass and you don't investigate, how are you gonna do this every time? Are you gonna cut open a scroll every time? No, no, definitely not. But when you do not know why that compressor failed, you may have to.
And are you gonna do it on the job site? No. But you bring it back and you learn afterwards. You cut it open, maybe on your own time if you have to. ' cause that's gonna help you and bring value to your customer, to your boss. I hear this all the time, and I do a lot of training with technician. Well, I, I wanna get a raise.
And are you gonna do it on the job site? No. But you bring it back and you learn afterwards. You cut it open, maybe on your own time if you have to. ' cause that's gonna help you and bring value to your customer, to your boss. I hear this all the time, and I do a lot of training with technician. Well, I, I wanna get a raise.
I wanna get a raise. Why do you get a raise over the next guy? What are you doing more and above your, your role? Are you doing things like this, writing out great detailed reports? Here's the follow-up, here's the extra work that you could do or have when it's slow. You know, it's very important to understand that.
So this electrical failure was really caused by a mechanical failure, what was really caused by the installation of that first install. Okay, next one. I know it's real hard to see. What is this? What? What's this? What? Liquid sludge back. Liquid SL back oil. So it's a, it's a valve plate. What's a valve? Is a valve plate supposed to look like that?
No. So what, what do you think all that darkness is from? Excessive heat. Excessive heat. Okay. This is important to know. Now what's the story? What's the story besides the about this excessive heat and this compressor, if I didn't pull off the head? You still may be visual. 'cause if you look, your, your greatest tools as a technician is looking, feeling, touching, listening.
No. So what, what do you think all that darkness is from? Excessive heat. Excessive heat. Okay. This is important to know. Now what's the story? What's the story besides the about this excessive heat and this compressor, if I didn't pull off the head? You still may be visual. 'cause if you look, your, your greatest tools as a technician is looking, feeling, touching, listening.
My buddies that have been in the field for 20, 25 years, they can go and walk into a, a chiller plant, walk into an industrial plant, walk into a supermarket, and they can listen. And they'd be like, I know that compressor. There's something going on with that. I can hear it. It doesn't sound right. Leaking.
Leaking. Yeah. Well, we could be, could be leaking. So what causes overheat? What's the story behind this? Because when you go to a compressor manufacturer, all the big ones, Copeland Bits or Danfoss, all them, Carla, you, you talk about all these compressor manufacturers, they have specialists that do not know the system, know the refrigerant, know the power that's using it, but they know the story behind that compressor.
And this is what we need to know as technicians. You know, and I, and I've seen it firsthand. I inspected hundreds and hundreds of compressors when I worked at Copeland and I worked with these gurus and they're like, Trevor, I've been doing this for 20 years, 25 years, 30 years. And you know what, the amount of compressors being open, like a semi hermetic, like this is less and less.
And this is what we need to know as technicians. You know, and I, and I've seen it firsthand. I inspected hundreds and hundreds of compressors when I worked at Copeland and I worked with these gurus and they're like, Trevor, I've been doing this for 20 years, 25 years, 30 years. And you know what, the amount of compressors being open, like a semi hermetic, like this is less and less.
And I hear it from technicians saying, well, I don't have time to do it. Isn't that what you're paid for? Well, I, well, my customer doesn't wanna pay me to do it. What do you mean your customer doesn't want you to pay? Are they following you around seeing, watching you? Maybe. But you have time. At least pull a head off properly.
Once again, you guys all have to be safe, safe out there. 'cause if you're not safe, you get hurt. You can't work, you can't get paid, you can't take care of your family. So you need to understand that safely. Pump it down, electrically, isolate it. Take the head off. And you see something like this. There's a story to be told.
So what causes overheat now? High superheat. Discharge valve, high superheat, discharge valve. What else? Dirty coils. So there's a lot of things. So this is part of the story. So you need to understand the story and walk through it as a technician, right? And we're gonna dive in. Anything that's bold, that's hard to see.
I'm gonna dive into three mechanical failures today because I don't have time to talk about all of them. What is this? And I'm pointing at the sight glass a bit more. I know it's hard to see. Low oil. Low oil, fantastic. Low oil on a compressor that has a sight glass. That's kind of easy to tell. What happens when there's no sight glass, right?
I'm gonna dive into three mechanical failures today because I don't have time to talk about all of them. What is this? And I'm pointing at the sight glass a bit more. I know it's hard to see. Low oil. Low oil, fantastic. Low oil on a compressor that has a sight glass. That's kind of easy to tell. What happens when there's no sight glass, right?
But why is there no oil in there? What's the story behind that? Air? Pardon? Low airflow. Low airflow. Okay. And what would low airflow cause
build the oil up in there. What's that? Poor refrigerant velocity. Poor refrigerant velocity. So all these different things are part of this story, right? What else causes loss of oil or low oil? Leak? Leak. So you go into there, you, what's part of the story? Well, I'm looking for a leak. This is part of the story that you need to figure out.
You need a checklist. You need to take a systematic approach. When you're troubleshooting systems. You can't going in and shooting by the hip every time. You need to take an approach, this step, this step, this step, this step, this step, this step. And over time you have at, at the beginning you have this massive list.
But over time this list gets smaller because you know what to do. You can think about it. When I get into a site, this is what I need to look for and this is why I need to look for it. And it tells you the story. 'cause we're detectives and we need to build a case to figure out that problem. And so loss of oil is a big one.
But over time this list gets smaller because you know what to do. You can think about it. When I get into a site, this is what I need to look for and this is why I need to look for it. And it tells you the story. 'cause we're detectives and we need to build a case to figure out that problem. And so loss of oil is a big one.
That was one of the things that was the hardest thing for me to understand. Where's the oil? It's not in the compressor. Where's it at? What else could cause loss of oil? Starts? Flooded. Starts wash out. What else? Viscosity. The oil is too high. Ah, viscosity. Freeze. Yeah. So below zero POE. Oils like molasses.
So think of it, it gets super thick and it doesn't wanna move. So now if all of a sudden you have an issue with your defrost, maybe defrost termination, something when you're defrosting, you haven't gone into defrost for a couple weeks, maybe all that oil stuck in there or freeze up. It all depends, right?
But you need to understand the story. Pipe sizing is a huge one that technicians do not understand. It took me many years and only because I did go and work at Emerson and Copeland and did field support manufacturers and stuff to really understand that. But the value of understanding how the system's piped as a technician, you want to be the best technician out there.
But you need to understand the story. Pipe sizing is a huge one that technicians do not understand. It took me many years and only because I did go and work at Emerson and Copeland and did field support manufacturers and stuff to really understand that. But the value of understanding how the system's piped as a technician, you want to be the best technician out there.
You understand how to size a system, how to install a system, how to commission the system, how to start a system up, how to maintenance a system. And it's not easy. You're not gonna learn this overnight. 'cause I tried to do it and I'm doing it for 17, 18 years now, and I feel like I'm at day one. Okay? But take the time to understand all those different things and pipe sizing is a huge one.
If you have a 12 PSI pressure drop in your suction line, there's something wrong. Is there a restriction? Is there the the velocity issue? You need to understand this stuff. What else is wrong with this picture? Besides no oil in there. Two Craig case heater. So now if we think about this. Well, why did I put another cranky?
Why do you think this person put a cranky heater there? Issues probably because, maybe 'cause they're having oil return issues. Now what would happen now if that heater, for some reason the, the auxiliary that pulls that in and off, turn it on and off fails. Is that gonna keep that compressor cool Or is it gonna heat it up overheat?
Why do you think this person put a cranky heater there? Issues probably because, maybe 'cause they're having oil return issues. Now what would happen now if that heater, for some reason the, the auxiliary that pulls that in and off, turn it on and off fails. Is that gonna keep that compressor cool Or is it gonna heat it up overheat?
Yeah, so you look at any compressor manufacturers, they're gonna tell you where they wanna see that. That crank case heater and it goes in a specific spot. It goes in a specific, I didn't know, I didn't know. You need to put it over the seam, the weld seam, and it'll tell you from the base depending on the manufacturer, tell you how high they should have it.
'cause if you have it too high, it's gonna overheat the compressor potentially. Next one. Anybody ever open a scroll bush four show of hands. If you haven't opened a scroll, you need to, you need to take the time, even if it's not on a job, where does the, okay, how about this?
Where does the scroll go? It's un warranty. No warranty on the scroll. Compress. Where does it go? It goes in the scrap ba bin. So your job is Now I, I challenge all of you here and everybody that's online watching I challenge you when you have a failed compressor, it's outta warranty and it's gonna go in the bin.
Keep it, cut it open safely. Safety glasses, gloves. A good sawa or a zip cutter. Some people use plasma cutter, but I challenge you to look inside, to figure out why that compressor failed. It's outta warranty anyway. It's going away. You need to understand this stuff. 'cause if you don't know that story, how long until the next one fails.
Keep it, cut it open safely. Safety glasses, gloves. A good sawa or a zip cutter. Some people use plasma cutter, but I challenge you to look inside, to figure out why that compressor failed. It's outta warranty anyway. It's going away. You need to understand this stuff. 'cause if you don't know that story, how long until the next one fails.
And it's very important as a technician to understand the story. When you understand the story of that system, you know how to troubleshoot it. Your confidence is gonna go up. 'cause you're gonna figure this out. The story. Okay, this one here, flooded starts these special inspection people that work at these large manufacturers like Bitzer and Copeland and Carlisle.
They look at these pictures and they can tell you what caused that failure, but, and they can tell what the technician thought, thought the failure was. Okay, so like this one here, electrical failed compressor. You see this is called something called scroll galling. So it's actually metal on metal. There's supposed to be a nice foam of oil in between there, but you gotta, what's a flooded start?
How does a flooded start even happen? And we're gonna dive into it. How does a flooded start? What causes a flooded start? Liquid migration. Liquid migration. Okay. ' cause refrigerant wants to go to the coldest part of the system. Well, why? Why would it want to go to the compressor outside? Oh, it's outside and it's cold.
How does a flooded start even happen? And we're gonna dive into it. How does a flooded start? What causes a flooded start? Liquid migration. Liquid migration. Okay. ' cause refrigerant wants to go to the coldest part of the system. Well, why? Why would it want to go to the compressor outside? Oh, it's outside and it's cold.
Okay, well, so what are you gonna do to prevent that then? Crank case heater, crank case heater on it. Maybe a second or third one if you need to. Hey, bill. No, what else? Liquid, light, pumped down. So night, we're gonna talk about this a little bit more, but it's important to understand that. But if you didn't look inside this compressor and you put another one back in, I've done a tons of times.
I put a new compressor in. I I tried to find out that issue. What caused me to be here to fix this compressor that has electrically failed. And I, I, there was times it must have been the relay. It was loose. The wire was loose. I did it. But you know what? I didn't know the story of that compressor because I didn't cut it open.
I didn't look inside. You work on semi hermetic compressor. You need to look inside them. What do you need? If you take a head off of a compressor, what do you need? What is the one thing you need? What is that? Safety glasses. Safety glasses. Okay. You, you got the safety glasses. You bump it down properly. You gotta electrically isolate it.
I didn't look inside. You work on semi hermetic compressor. You need to look inside them. What do you need? If you take a head off of a compressor, what do you need? What is the one thing you need? What is that? Safety glasses. Safety glasses. Okay. You, you got the safety glasses. You bump it down properly. You gotta electrically isolate it.
You take that head off. What do you need? If you're gonna look at it. You need gaskets. Okay? And if you don't have gasket there, you put the head on, you call the, the whole, the wholesaler operat supply and say, you got these gaskets. Order me some, I'm gonna put it back on for now, and I'm gonna have to come back and do a follow up.
'cause it's like your car engine. You're working on your car, you pull your head off your car engine. Are you gonna leave that old gasket on your head?
Yeah. So, and then here's a, a picture of a, a semi hermetic. So if you take the pump off, we're gonna talk about this in the tear down. When you take a, a compressor apart, semi hermetic, you don't have to pull the whole thing apart. You don't have to do what they're doing at the manufacturer level to inspect it.
You need to take a few things off. You need to pull off the head safely, take a look inside. You need to pull off the pump and look inside there. And that's really all you need to do. If you want to dive deeper and pull this dator cover off and look, you can, you can totally do that. But it's not necessary to find the different tips and tricks that we'll talk about today.
Next one. What do you think caused these failures or issues?
Next one. What do you think caused these failures or issues?Slugging? Yes. Okay. Let's start the story of a slug. How does a slug happen? How do you have a compressor? Slug. A proper. That's T-T-X-V-I suck over only on one type of compressor. Not regular. Not a refrigerant. Cool Compressor. An air Cool Compressor? Yes. Say what was that again? Super heat. Improper sub heat?

(00:22):
No, not for slugging. Good, good. Try what causing a refrigerant. Cool compressor, which are scrolls, which are semi hermetics.

Speaker (00:22):
You

Speaker 2 (00:22):
filter right out. Well, that'll be restriction. No close. Start, stop. Start, stop. Okay, start, stop. We're getting closer, but most start, stop is oil issues. Oil issue. What causes a slug? This is very important. As a technician, you need to understand this. Proper charging. Proper charging. Okay. What would, okay.
How would something break inside a compressor is what? What's supposed to be in a compressor? How about, let's start there. What's vapor? Okay. What would cause that? Would vapor cause that? No. No. So what could cause that? What are two things that could cause that? Liquid? Liquid? I love that liquid. 'cause I used to say liquid too, and I was really corrected by manufacturers when I worked for them because What do you mean by liquid?
How would something break inside a compressor is what? What's supposed to be in a compressor? How about, let's start there. What's vapor? Okay. What would cause that? Would vapor cause that? No. No. So what could cause that? What are two things that could cause that? Liquid? Liquid? I love that liquid. 'cause I used to say liquid too, and I was really corrected by manufacturers when I worked for them because What do you mean by liquid?
Now? Liquid refrigerant or liquid oil, right. Could be two different things, but you need to understand, so now liquid, now I get liquid in there. How do I get liquid in a compressor?
It's not boiling off, but that when it doesn't boil off into eap, what is that considered? That, that's flood back, right? So how do I get refrigerant in a compressor to do something like liquid refrigerant?
Keep going. Keep trying. What is the, the one that we just talked about just before flood, it starts. How many people know a slug was, is caused by a flooded start? Show of hands and a refrigerant cold comforter, to be honest. Okay. This is important. This is key information. You need to understand that flooded start.
'cause we talked about it, Chris said that refrigerant migrates back to the compressor. It condensed, it stratifies in the oil, it stratifies into oil, and that compressor starts up and it bang. It causes things like this. Oh, it causes things like this and things like that. So now when you think about the story, okay, so the system is off.
'cause we talked about it, Chris said that refrigerant migrates back to the compressor. It condensed, it stratifies in the oil, it stratifies into oil, and that compressor starts up and it bang. It causes things like this. Oh, it causes things like this and things like that. So now when you think about the story, okay, so the system is off.
The auxiliary contactor failed the. Crank case heater was not working at that time. Or it failed. The refrigerant migrated back to the compressor. The compressor was off for a long period of time. So it stratified in the oil, the refrigerant, and when that compressor started up, bam, you had a flooded. You had a flooded start, a massive flooded start, which caused a slug.
So now here's the story. You know, they could, you could go and you put your gauges on this compressor now, and the compressor's still electrically running. Or it could be electrically failed because you put your gauges on this compressor right here. What are your gauges gonna say? It could say equal. Yeah, because there's nothing running, nothing pumping.
Maybe a few PSI off, but you need to understand it. But if you don't look inside, how do I know it's a slug that did that? How do I know it was a flooded start that was caused by the slug? So this is what you really need to understand when you're doing any type of system. It doesn't even matter if you're working on smaller equipment.
You want to understand what caused that failure. 'cause when you understand that, what caused that failure, you're going to change your troubleshooting game. Okay? And I missed it on a little bit on loss of oil because I'm not gonna dive into that a little bit deeper. A lot of you work with compressors with no sight glasses.
You want to understand what caused that failure. 'cause when you understand that, what caused that failure, you're going to change your troubleshooting game. Okay? And I missed it on a little bit on loss of oil because I'm not gonna dive into that a little bit deeper. A lot of you work with compressors with no sight glasses.
Is that correct? Okay. You have a compressor fail with no sight glass. What is the one thing you have to do? The compressors failed and you need to do this every time to make sure you understand that system, that story. What do you need to do? Pour it out. Pour it out and measure it compared to what that manufacturer says.
Because what if you take it out and you dump it out and it says it should have 20 ounces of oil or, yeah, or milliliters wherever you're listening from and it's only had two ounces. What does that mean now? Oil somewhere. That's soil oil somewhere. Okay. It could be leaked out, like you mentioned it could have had a leak, but you walk around and there's no leak there.
Now, where's the oil? It could be in the evaporator. So now that compressor, how would it have failed if I had no oil in that compressor? Say the The one we go back to, the one with no sight glass. You're working on it and it failed. What would've happened? That failure? 'cause all the oils in the evaporator, we'll say, what was that?
Now, where's the oil? It could be in the evaporator. So now that compressor, how would it have failed if I had no oil in that compressor? Say the The one we go back to, the one with no sight glass. You're working on it and it failed. What would've happened? That failure? 'cause all the oils in the evaporator, we'll say, what was that?
Failure shavings locked rotor. Who said it? Great job. Seize compressor. 'cause you get no oil. It's just like your current engine. You drop the oil, your current engine go drive a hundred miles. See what happens. Okay, so you're gonna have a seize compressor. So that first compressor's gonna fail by a seize compressor.
So you take a new compressor, you put it there from your service replacement from your wholesaler, and you stick it and you install it. Okay? And the compressor, it starts to run and then two weeks later or a week later, you get another failed compressor. Do you think it's probably a seize compressor again?
Could be a seize compressor, but it could be too much oil. Now you got a slug because you got two much oil. So these are the things that you need to think about when you're making, building your case, when you're troubleshooting. And you know, over time it'll get quicker and faster and easier, but you gotta start somewhere building that story, building that case.
Okay, here's one more. Last one.
Okay, here's one more. Last one.
There's a little bit, this is a crank scored. Scored crank. Yes. But why is it scored like that? 'cause it can score that way different ways. Spun. Yeah, it's spun bearing. How do you spin a bearing in a refrigerant cooled, semi-hermetic compressor? Just like this. No oil. But how come there's no oil wash out?
Okay. And what causes a washout liquid? Liquid flood back. So here's the story. Do you see how we're coming up with pattern of how this is happening? And there's a ways to test this stuff to understand what caused that compressor to fail. This one here is something called shake hands with the crankshaft, and we'll talk about that.
A few simple tests, things to look for. It's gonna make your job super easy.
Okay. Compression ratio. What is compression ratio? This is something that, you know, I did not think about. I learned about it in school, but I never used it in the field. Quantity of refrigerant. In the compressor, we discharge divided by suction. Okay. Yes. So your absolute discharge over your absolute suction.
Okay. Compression ratio. What is compression ratio? This is something that, you know, I did not think about. I learned about it in school, but I never used it in the field. Quantity of refrigerant. In the compressor, we discharge divided by suction. Okay. Yes. So your absolute discharge over your absolute suction.
How do you get absolute now? Yeah, it's absolute pressure. 14.7. This include atmospheric pressure, usual measurements. Oh yeah, no, it's atmospheric. Four point absolute. Sorry. Yeah, absolute. Because we're usually using adjusted 14. 14.5 would be bar. So 14.5 is barr ca. Another unit of measurement. 14.7 is atmospheric pressure.
So you, depending on where you're at, if you're up in a higher altitude, it's gonna be different. But here, here is 14.7. I say 15, don't even use that number. So I use 15. So you have, for an example, you have 275 PSIG. You add 15, you get 290 PSIA. Okay? Then you get your suction. 55 plus 15 PSIA is 270 p PSIA, sorry, two 70 PSIA.
You divide them and you get 4.1 compression ratio. Why you tell me this, Trevor? Why does this even matter? Well, compression ratio is very important because what does compression ratio do to the system? An operation envelope of a compressor. Why would I even tell you this? Everything's designed around that.
You divide them and you get 4.1 compression ratio. Why you tell me this, Trevor? Why does this even matter? Well, compression ratio is very important because what does compression ratio do to the system? An operation envelope of a compressor. Why would I even tell you this? Everything's designed around that.
Everything's, is it, do you think? High temp application. What about a ultralow temp that runs into a vacuum? Your suction. You know, I'm just, you know, but different application will have different compression ratios. Compressors are designed differently. You cannot take an air conditioning compressor and go throw it in a low low temperature application.
Copeland does have a few that'll do a wide range, but the standard compressors, you're not just gonna do that. They're designed differently. They're built differently for, because of different compression ratios. Okay. And why this is important, 'cause when you have high compression ratio, what does that do to the system, to the compressor and to the story of it?
What is it? Heat someone A lot of heat. A lot of work. It's doing a lot of work. That does not really necessarily need to be done. So what would cause high compression ratio now? Overcharge. Dirty coil. There's a list and list of these things. Low suction pressure. What's worse? High discharge or low suction Now.
What is it? Heat someone A lot of heat. A lot of work. It's doing a lot of work. That does not really necessarily need to be done. So what would cause high compression ratio now? Overcharge. Dirty coil. There's a list and list of these things. Low suction pressure. What's worse? High discharge or low suction Now.So how about this, how about high discharge? You're gonna have a higher higher compression ratio. Show of hands. How about you're gonna have higher compression ratio with a low suction. We got four. It is low suction. So you gotta understand when you have that pressure drop in your suction line, that's way worse.
And you gotta understand what caused that. You gotta figure out that story. So for people that do metric, 19 bar plus one bar, now you see I do one bar, it's really 14.7, but then you do to the calculation again, 20 barrel over five bar, you get four to one compression ratio. Way easier math. Way easier math.
Hey, the thing about it, it doesn't matter what units you use. High low temp application, you're gonna be like 10 to one. We'll say medium temp, five to one. Air conditioning, two to three to one. Besides CO2 refrigeration, I'm not gonna get into that, but subcritical applications are real low compression ratio.
But if you don't understand compression ratio and you don't understand that it's building and causing a lot of heat, you're missing a part of the story. It doesn't take long to start learning this a little bit more. I got a picture. Always check the discharge temperature. From where? How far? Six inches.
But if you don't understand compression ratio and you don't understand that it's building and causing a lot of heat, you're missing a part of the story. It doesn't take long to start learning this a little bit more. I got a picture. Always check the discharge temperature. From where? How far? Six inches.
Six inches. Excellent. Okay, and then you want to keep it below what? When you check it? 2 25. 2 25. Who said two 50? There you go. You're not wrong. 'cause Bitzer says two 50 because Copeland and Carlisle say 2 25. So it depends. The manufacturer who you're working with, this is the stuff you wanna understand. I would say 2 25 anyway, because you're on the safe side.
Because inside the head of the compressor, right at that discharge point, right where the squish is, that last piece of gas, that's the hottest point. Same with the scroll, right? When the scroll or a screw compressor doesn't matter, right At that last compression, that is the hottest point. So from six inches inside the compressor, it could be 50 to 75 degrees hotter.
What happens to POE oil when you get it? Over 300. Three 20. Starts to lose lubrication. 3 5400 starts to break down. So you need to understand this, okay? And this is right here. Every one degree increase in your suction is one degree in your discharge. Doesn't matter what units you're using, you need to understand that.
What happens to POE oil when you get it? Over 300. Three 20. Starts to lose lubrication. 3 5400 starts to break down. So you need to understand this, okay? And this is right here. Every one degree increase in your suction is one degree in your discharge. Doesn't matter what units you're using, you need to understand that.
'cause if your return gas temperature, your suction, gas temperature, whatever you want to call it, 'cause there's so many terms in HVAC and refrigeration, whatever you wanna call it, you need to check that what is my return gas temperature? What is my suction line temperature? What's my suction gas temperature?
'cause you need to understand this is a refrigerant, cool compressor. Why am I coming with 75 degrees back to this compressor? And I'm trying to get a 35 degree evaporator that says you're picking up a lot of heat. Okay, I better pick it up here. I like talking high return gas temperature, no installation on the suction line.
So you have a, Chris had a great video I watched one time where he is showing that the line says running across the roof, the suction on the roof and the the, the insulation's failing. So as a technician, he commented on it, look at this insulation. It's bad. You need to do this. You are a detective. As a technician in the field.
Maybe that customer's not gonna wanna change it, but you gotta know maybe I'm picking up 10 degrees more because of this line is not insulated properly. This is why the compressor's overheating a bit and it's gonna fail. Lead to a failure earlier. You need to understand that you need to build a case on every system you're working on.
Maybe that customer's not gonna wanna change it, but you gotta know maybe I'm picking up 10 degrees more because of this line is not insulated properly. This is why the compressor's overheating a bit and it's gonna fail. Lead to a failure earlier. You need to understand that you need to build a case on every system you're working on.
You need to build that story. And when you understand the story, you're gonna troubleshoot faster and quicker. Okay? Operation envelopes, you really need to understand these. Okay, I got one here. Courtesy of Emerson. Here's a, a picture of their ZFK five. This is an operation envelope. How many seen an operation envelope of a compressor before?
Show of hands, not enough of you. And that's okay. This is where you're gonna start to learn and understand. Because if the compress, if the system's running here, here, here, here, here, here or here, here, depending on the motor and the Bitzer compressor, you're gonna lead to a failed compressor. And each one of those things will say, will tell you a sign, well, I'm running at a super high suction when I'm up here.
Why am I running at such a high suction? You need to think about that as a technician. Or you're running out here. Why is my low pressure control not cutting out before the operation envelope because now I'm running outside the envelope doing work on that compressor, potentially causing damage. That's gonna lead to an early failure.
Why am I running at such a high suction? You need to think about that as a technician. Or you're running out here. Why is my low pressure control not cutting out before the operation envelope because now I'm running outside the envelope doing work on that compressor, potentially causing damage. That's gonna lead to an early failure.
And I've seen compressors are built. These manufacturers like Copeland, Bitzer, Danfoss, Carlisle, Bach, I'll name a bunch of 'em. They don't build compressors that last a year or two. They last 10, 15, 20 years. That's what they're built for. But us as technicians or the customer themselves, not doing maintenance is what causing the failures.
Earlier failures. Do things happen? Yes, there are compressors that are, you know, at the factory that are not assembled properly, that make it out to the field by manufacture. It does happen, but these large compressor manufacturers are, they're pumping out good quality equipment. A lot of what I've seen, and I've tore down hundreds of compressors, is that it's system related issues.
And usually the story's not told. They don't know the stories, the people that are in the lab pulling them apart or telling the stories of the compressor. Additional cooling methods. So if you work in low temp application, and I'm even seeing it in, I believe in heat pump application, where you have something called liquid injection.
And usually the story's not told. They don't know the stories, the people that are in the lab pulling them apart or telling the stories of the compressor. Additional cooling methods. So if you work in low temp application, and I'm even seeing it in, I believe in heat pump application, where you have something called liquid injection.
You need to cool that compressor down because the compression ratio is so high. Remember we talked about high compression ratio, high heat, so now you need some sort of additional cooling. It could be a tread valve, it could be a DDC, it could be a captive, whatever it is. Could be a a fan. You need to understand the story of the compressor.
'cause if I'm running in this area with this compressor on these refrigerants, specifically those refrigerants, I need to have liquid injection. I need to, or that compressor's gonna fail. So you need to understand the story. You need to understand that compressor that you're working on as well. You need to understand the manufacturer of it.
'cause not every compressor's built the same. I used to think scrolls a scroll, it's easy. Ah, no, it's a CE. Scroll over. It's all the same. It's not. Col makes over 25 different scrolls. They work differently. There are different sizes, different components, different internals. You need to understand that stuff.
'cause not every compressor's built the same. I used to think scrolls a scroll, it's easy. Ah, no, it's a CE. Scroll over. It's all the same. It's not. Col makes over 25 different scrolls. They work differently. There are different sizes, different components, different internals. You need to understand that stuff.Does it take time? Yes. Are you gonna learn it overnight? No. But have, you know, have the confidence in yourself to learn that and wanna learn that. Chris? I'd say to point out

Speaker 3 (00:36):
that you need to be concerned with that if you're converting the refrigerants too. Because you could be using R 20 compressor, convert it to.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
A hundred percent. So Chris, Chris brings up a great point retrofits. How many of you done refrigerant retrofits then? How about that? Anybody? Okay. You need to read some guides and learn about it. You go to spoiling a guide and they'll tell you you need a size. That's a solenoid valve. You need a size, a TX valve depending on what refrigerant you're replacing it with.
And from R 22, 4 0 4, and they're gonna say, you're gonna have to change the valve because the gaskets not gonna work. Or you got a high percentage chance of leakage. And I've seen this time and time again contractors go in, I'm just gonna do a, a retrofit. We're just gonna pull out the gas, put the new gasket.
It's a drop in replacement. We're all good. There's no such thing as drop in replacement to me anyway. Maybe you guys might think of it, but you do have to check superheat. You do have to make sure it's the right oil. You do need to do all these checks. So for me, that's not a drop in replacement. If I have to do all these check, drop in replacements, pull something out, put it in, I'm gone.
It's a drop in replacement. We're all good. There's no such thing as drop in replacement to me anyway. Maybe you guys might think of it, but you do have to check superheat. You do have to make sure it's the right oil. You do need to do all these checks. So for me, that's not a drop in replacement. If I have to do all these check, drop in replacements, pull something out, put it in, I'm gone.
But that's what the technician they're doing and they're leading the failures. Okay. Quick question. When you have high compression ratio, this will cause the compressor to what? Do less work? Flood back overheat. Run normal or slug? Overheat. Okay. We got that point across quite well. Okay. Flooded starts. We talked about this.
Why? What causes flooded? Starts liquid migration. Okay, so we got vapor coming back to the compressor. It stratifies in the oil. The compressor fills up with refrigerant and then bam. You got a good looking scroll set inside there. Scrolls are tough though. They can take a few of those, but they can't always hit 'em.
I watching the field, many compressors by manufacturers get taken out and when you start hearing marbles in a scroll, compressor shut. Shut it off. I'll tell you right now, the damage is really already done, to be honest with you. Maybe you don't wanna shut it off, but when you hear marbles, you're in trouble.
That compressor's in trouble anyway. Maybe you're not. There's also another thing that you need to look for, maybe. The refrigerant's coming from the discharge side. So you might need a check valve and maybe the manufacturer of the equipment didn't even know that. This is why it's our job as technicians to dive in a little bit deeper, learn the story of the equipment, learn the story of that compressor or that system.
That compressor's in trouble anyway. Maybe you're not. There's also another thing that you need to look for, maybe. The refrigerant's coming from the discharge side. So you might need a check valve and maybe the manufacturer of the equipment didn't even know that. This is why it's our job as technicians to dive in a little bit deeper, learn the story of the equipment, learn the story of that compressor or that system.
Do I need a check valve? But if you didn't open up this compressor, how do you know that it was a, a slug or a flooded start that caused a slug that caused the failure? Because when you go there as a technician, what are you gonna do? You're gonna change it. But what's your first check? The compressor's not running.
You're gonna check if there's any gas. And then what what are you gonna do? So there's gas in it. You got gas in it. So as you're gonna take your meter out and you're gonna check it and you're gonna have a dead short or your electrical failure, or turn to a certain short or face to face, short or winding, short, whatever it is, or ground a compressor.
But if I don't know that took a slug, how do I know how to fix the problem? You're gonna put a new compressor in, you're gonna watch it, you're gonna turn it on and it's gonna work for four hours straight, and you're gonna watch it and you're gonna be like, there, there's nothing wrong with this and what you know, and then I'll sign it off.
I watched it. I got the right soup read. I wait till it came down and that was it. You walk away. But that night while you're not there and it goes into defrost and all of a sudden the compressor washes out again, or you get flood back at a certain time or at night that those end users, they'll open the doors, they'll turn off the fans or whatever it is.
I watched it. I got the right soup read. I wait till it came down and that was it. You walk away. But that night while you're not there and it goes into defrost and all of a sudden the compressor washes out again, or you get flood back at a certain time or at night that those end users, they'll open the doors, they'll turn off the fans or whatever it is.
But if you don't look inside that compressor and you don't understand the story of the compressor, you're just gonna be replacing another one afterwards. Okay? This is kind of what it looks like inside. You open it up and you see what we call, what I call scroll galling, or they the manufacturer call scroll galling and this is a flooded start.
This is a slug caused by a flooded start. And this is three causes of failure. So remember as a technician, you'll go up, and now I got electrical failure. But this electrical failure was caused by a slug, and that slug was caused by a flooded start. You getting the story now? Starting to understand that there's causes and effects, and this is as a, there's three mechanical, two mechanical issues to that led to this electrical failure.
And this is a technician. What we need to know and need to understand to be better. To get better. So you feel confident when you say this compressor's a failed compressor. You know, 100% is a failed compressor because when I did work at Covid, I seen dozens and dozens and dozens of compressors come back.
And this is a technician. What we need to know and need to understand to be better. To get better. So you feel confident when you say this compressor's a failed compressor. You know, 100% is a failed compressor because when I did work at Covid, I seen dozens and dozens and dozens of compressors come back.
I put them on the bench and they run totally fine. There is nothing wrong with them. And I'm talking about 4,000, 8,000, $10,000 compressors and I'm running them on the bench. And when I send it to the contractor, 'cause I have some friends out there, they ask me, Trevor, can you inspect this when I work there?
And that's what I do. And I send them a video of this $10,000 compressor running. They're really upset. Their pride is hurt because they're a good technician, but they made mistakes and they miss something. Right? And as, and they're like, well, I didn't check that because I didn't know or I forgot. Okay, flooded.
Start prevention. We talked about a cranky heat or pump down cycle bump. Start cycle. Put the compressor in war location. Okay. Once again, if you have a compressor that is flooded, start, you can see it. What do you look for if you, your compressor has a, is off and it has a flooded start and it has a cycl glass.
Start prevention. We talked about a cranky heat or pump down cycle bump. Start cycle. Put the compressor in war location. Okay. Once again, if you have a compressor that is flooded, start, you can see it. What do you look for if you, your compressor has a, is off and it has a flooded start and it has a cycl glass.
What are you gonna, what are you looking for? Foam. You're gonna go look into Sightglass when it starts up. You look inside there. And if there's explosion of foam in there, that's liquid refrigerant inside there. Is there like a little, you know, is there bubbles? Sometimes an oil when start? Yes. Yeah, but when you get a full thing of foam, you can tell that's a flooded start.
And if that is happening, you gotta figure out what is causing that and you need to stop it. The damage is done. You're gonna lose a bit of efficiency I'm sure. But you can protect that compressor last a few more years. And it's very important as a technician to protect that equipment for your customer.
'cause they don't know the difference. They're paying you good money to do a good job. And when you understand what's going on in that system, it's gonna make your life a lot easier. Okay. Flood back, we talked about this already. What causes flood back again?
No liquid migration flooded, sarp, an expansion valve expansion valve. But what causes it? Like what is it, what is actually, what's the story? It's no super heat. Anytime the compressor's running and liquid makes its way back to the compressor. That's what's flood back is anytime the compressor's running and liquid refrigerant's making its way back.
No liquid migration flooded, sarp, an expansion valve expansion valve. But what causes it? Like what is it, what is actually, what's the story? It's no super heat. Anytime the compressor's running and liquid makes its way back to the compressor. That's what's flood back is anytime the compressor's running and liquid refrigerant's making its way back.
Okay. And so we heard, okay, you can have an issue with your metering device that causes flood back. What else causes flood back? Low air flow. What else causes air? What, okay, now we can break down low air flow. How does low air flow have? How do you have an issue with low air flow? What causes low air flow fans?
Not fun coil, dirty coil's. Dirty plug coil in front of the return. The couch. Yes. All the couch looked good in the return. So look at all these different things that we're talking about to build that story. You know, it could be one of those things, but that's part of the story. What one was it? And you need to understand this.
Maybe it's a plugged drain into the water filled up into the coil and it froze the coil up, and then it stopped the airflow, and then now you can't boil off that refrigerant. So now it starts to make it way back to the compressor, which leads to a flood back situation, which causes that compressor an issue.
Does it fail right off the bat? No. Unless it's really, really bad. And it's like copper plating. I talked to my friend Steve Wagner, he works at the Copeland plant and which one is it again? The semi hermetic plant Anyway, and he said Trevor, he sent me some pictures. He is like, look at this picture. I might have it coming up.
Does it fail right off the bat? No. Unless it's really, really bad. And it's like copper plating. I talked to my friend Steve Wagner, he works at the Copeland plant and which one is it again? The semi hermetic plant Anyway, and he said Trevor, he sent me some pictures. He is like, look at this picture. I might have it coming up.
I shouldn't talk about it, but anyway, I'm gonna tell any, he's like, what's wrong with this compressor? I'm like, it's copper plating. How long? How long do you think it's been running in the field? Two weeks because of copper plating. Okay. Also, he sent me another picture. See it looked exactly the same.
Exactly the same. He is like Trevor, how long, how long did that compressor run for? I was like two weeks. No, that was two years. So you need to understand that copper plating for getting off topic here could be two weeks, two months. Two years. So do a good installation there. TX valves, metering device, low airflow.
Anything that you cannot boil when you cannot boil off that liquid. Refrigerated. The evaporator, 'cause you're supposed to absorb the heat there and it makes its way back to the compressor is flood back. You need to understand that story. What causes the flood back? Where did it start? How do I fix it? How do I make this not happen again?
Anything that you cannot boil when you cannot boil off that liquid. Refrigerated. The evaporator, 'cause you're supposed to absorb the heat there and it makes its way back to the compressor is flood back. You need to understand that story. What causes the flood back? Where did it start? How do I fix it? How do I make this not happen again?Okay, no soup eat. So if you check and it has no soup, eat, it's bad. If you have a regular synthetic refrigerant and you're below 10 degrees soup, eat, you know, at the, at the lowest point that it could be, well, you might get away with it without causing a little bit of damage. 20 degrees, that's what Copeland is looking for.
Super heat back at the compressor. 15 degrees is what Bitzer is looking for. So you need to look these different compressor manufacturers up. But now if I talk about new refrigerants, there's a refrigerant call R five 13. I don't know if you ever heard of that refrigerant yet, but now the minimum is 20 degrees super, not 15, not 10 20.
CO2 could be 20 degrees or 36, depending on if it's trans-critical operation or subcritical operation. So you need to understand the equipment you're working on. You understand the story when you have an issue with the system. Okay? So if you see a compressor looking like this, you need to check the superheat to make sure, well, this one here, I know for sure is, is flood back.
But if you don't take your gauges out, you don't take your temperature prob out. You can't prove that it's flood back or not because you could be doing a low temp application. It's really cold, you're below zero and there's lots of humidity. It's gonna want to, that could be normal. Okay? And then inside a scroll, if you pull up part of a scroll apart and how to, to open up a scroll, you safely pump it down, remove it, you're out of, it's outta the system.
But if you don't take your gauges out, you don't take your temperature prob out. You can't prove that it's flood back or not because you could be doing a low temp application. It's really cold, you're below zero and there's lots of humidity. It's gonna want to, that could be normal. Okay? And then inside a scroll, if you pull up part of a scroll apart and how to, to open up a scroll, you safely pump it down, remove it, you're out of, it's outta the system.
Now at this point, you wanna put it on a pallet, screw it down, put it at sea clamps, hold it down. Safety glasses, gloves a good za. And right below the line here. Look right here. I got one done right here. So right below this, well, mark, you just go right around. Smaller compressors. Super easy to go open.
Chris has done lots of time before. The big compressor you are working on 40 ton compressors is a lot harder. It takes a lot longer. You might need a few blades, but I say start with the small ones. So look inside, find out from your supplier if there's, if it's warranty or not, you know, just double check.
If it's outta warranty, it's fair game, right? So, but learn, learn from that. Okay? Flood back prevention, checking that super eat that we talked about. Okay? If you're in a critically charged system, overcharging could be an issue. So you want to make sure that you do this. And here's a, a bulletin from Emerson AE 22 11 82.
If it's outta warranty, it's fair game, right? So, but learn, learn from that. Okay? Flood back prevention, checking that super eat that we talked about. Okay? If you're in a critically charged system, overcharging could be an issue. So you want to make sure that you do this. And here's a, a bulletin from Emerson AE 22 11 82.
I recommend reading that book that manual I've read a dozen of times and I still learn stuff from it. Okay? What time are we at here? Perfect. We got 30 minutes. Woo. Okay, so I want some volunteers. Anybody wanna volunteer to inspect the compressor with me? Okay, great. Anybody else need at least one more?
Come on up.

Speaker 4 (00:46):
Okay. Speaker 2

Speaker 5 (00:46):
Check it electrically.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah. So isolate the power. Lock it out, right? Make sure that's done first. So you wanna check it electrically?
Okay. We got, we did all the safety parts. You wanna check it electrically? There's a, there's a meter right there. Do you wanna check it? Check it. And if you haven't used the meter before we'll figure it out together.

Speaker 6 (00:46):
Okay? Alright. We've got resistance, right? I haven't used this one. Yeah, that's
Okay? Alright. We've got resistance, right? I haven't used this one. Yeah, that's

Speaker 2 (00:47):
okay. Speaker 6
So there's three leads on this one, and the first thing you want to check is make sure what type of compressor in it. Is it? So we got, it's a 2 0 8, 2 30 volt, three phase compressor. Okay. Step one is checking the resistance.
You getting anything? Point two five, which, how do I know which one is CS and R? There's on these ones it's L one, L two, L three. It's three phase. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (00:47):
Alright. We had 0.25 between L one and L 2.21 between L one and three and we have

Speaker 2 (00:47):
0.19 between L two and three. Okay. So do you see how Stefan, did it see how this is shaking, right?
Like that? Mm-hmm. This is not the way you need to be able to do this. Okay. I've done it before because now this is loose. It doesn't, you don't get a good connection. So the best way to do it is right from the tips. And on every compressor, it doesn't matter if it's a scroll, you want to go right from, these are the lugs that go right to the windings of the compressor.
It's all over the place. Yeah. Okay. It's all over the place. So one thing you need to do, and it doesn't matter if it's a scroll, it doesn't matter if it's a semi hermetic, right here is something called an insulator plate. This little insulator plate right here. And I've seen many, many compressors come back when I was inspecting them for Copeland, come back and all it was, was this insulator plate.
It's all over the place. Yeah. Okay. It's all over the place. So one thing you need to do, and it doesn't matter if it's a scroll, it doesn't matter if it's a semi hermetic, right here is something called an insulator plate. This little insulator plate right here. And I've seen many, many compressors come back when I was inspecting them for Copeland, come back and all it was, was this insulator plate.
No different. On scrolls, they'll have a little like the little black insulator plate that's on the scrolls. You'll go right up to it and you'll check it. And it's a, it's a short, it's a dead short. But the problem is there's a carbing tracking on that insulator. So you need to pull that off and do it straight from the compressor.
So now he's going right from the compressor. You have now. We got 0.4, we had 0.2 before and then we had some something all over the place. Now we got 0.4. Point three. Point four. Okay. So that's good. But we're not done there because now as you can see, there is another terminal plate. A terminal plate right here.
This could be the issue. So this is where you need to dive in a little bit deeper. Okay? So I don't think those ones aren't loose,
This could be the issue. So this is where you need to dive in a little bit deeper. Okay? So I don't think those ones aren't loose,
but this is very important to do. 'cause you don't want, this is not a cheap compressor to replace.

Speaker (00:49):
And lemme see if we can,
I don't know if this will do it and if, yeah, there we go. Okay.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
And. The thing is, if this is on the middle of a roof of a building, you gotta get a crane. You gotta get a team of guys, you gotta get plywood and maybe put the plywood down and roll it across the roof. I've had to do it. But if it's only a terminal plate and it's like 50 bucks, a hundred bucks, maybe 150 bucks, saving your back, saving your customer some money, saving the time.
'cause it could be 50 degrees outside and you're, you're burning hot or 40 degrees out. So once again, you gotta dive a little bit deeper, understand the story of the compressor, and this is, this is, this is, you're gonna, you do this, you're one step ahead of the next technician out there. 'cause a lot of them aren't checking this, diving that little deeper.
They go right from the terminals and it's all, it's a, it's a short, but dive a little bit deeper into it.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
One thing I'd say to point out is, obviously this one's been open, but make sure that it's not sealed and there's not plugs and you haven't built up pressure inside of it too.
One thing I'd say to point out is, obviously this one's been open, but make sure that it's not sealed and there's not plugs and you haven't built up pressure inside of it too.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah. We'll we will, we'll get to that.
Yeah, for sure. So we're just on the electrical side here. So now this here, we can't tell if it's, it's good or bad yet, but what do you do with it? With a compressor? It doesn't matter if it's a Copeland or a bits or D. What are you doing and where do you take that number? Does anybody know when they get the resistance, what to do with it?
The Copeland mobile app. Go to the Copeland mobile app and check it out there. Go to the the Bitzer software, check it there. Go to Carlisle Tecum Seal. Have them. They all have them, but you, if you're gathering information and not using the information, you're doing yourself a disservice because you need to understand that stuff.

Speaker (00:50):
So Stefan took it off. Oh, we might need something to bang it off. Don't have a hammer here.
Do youSpeaker 2: impact the pipe branch? We might not get this one off.
Yeah, that one's pretty good. Yeah, it's on. Very good.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
No,

Speaker 5 (00:50):
swack Speaker

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Oh, sorry. Gotta flat it so we can't take it off. But guys, you need to pull this off if you get, if it says something bad and then when you do it from here, like, look at this, I can push it down, right?
Oh, sorry. Gotta flat it so we can't take it off. But guys, you need to pull this off if you get, if it says something bad and then when you do it from here, like, look at this, I can push it down, right? So this is tied to the windings. So I've seen it before, like they got the bolts off here. We can take, let's take this off. Take this whole plate off, see if we can knock that off. I've seen it before. Where in behind here, the wire came off and all you had to do was put that wire back on, get a gasket, and this compressor here could be back up and running instead of going through that big process.
Like I said, getting a crane maybe, or getting two or three guys. Yes, you, you want to have work, you wanna have job, but you wanna work smart. But replacing a compressor that's not failed is not smart. Okay, I just wanna open this up. So some of you have not seen this before. Can look inside it.

Speaker (00:51):
And we may not get it

Speaker 2 (00:51):
off. Max, you got, is there a hammer back over there or anything? You know.
Okay. So we'll, we'll see if he gets a hammer. So we checked it electrically. I think it, it may be okay. What, what did we get? 40.4. It was 0.4. We got 0.4 in all of them. No, we check all that. Turn back on. So, well, first thing electrically, is it failed? Does it not fail electrically? That's only step one of the story.
Okay. So we'll, we'll see if he gets a hammer. So we checked it electrically. I think it, it may be okay. What, what did we get? 40.4. It was 0.4. We got 0.4 in all of them. No, we check all that. Turn back on. So, well, first thing electrically, is it failed? Does it not fail electrically? That's only step one of the story.Okay. If it's good. Okay. It's good. If it's electrically failed, what's next? What caused that electrical failure?

Speaker 5 (00:52):
It moves around a lot. Speaker 2
Okay. There
are big differences between all of them.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah. So that's, there's something going on with the electrics, so we know that. So the next step, when you open up a compressor, you wanna do it safely. You do not wanna just pull out all these bolts and just bang the head off. 'cause like Chris said, this could be full of refrigerator, even though you pumped it down.
Maybe there's a leak inside there and you didn't get it all out. So what you want to do is leave two bolts in there a bit, take all the rest of 'em. So take all the other ones out and just leave two in there a little bit. And you want to knock it. 'cause you could get sprayed. I got sprayed before with oil blown right into my face, refrigerant in my face.
It's not very fun. But you wanna be safe too. You gotta be wearing your safety glasses. So you leave two bolts in just like that. You take a hammer and you knock it. So we're loose now, so we know there's no one. So you can pull those ones out. Now, first step, when you're inspecting a compressor, well, first step is to get to this point, right?
But you wanna one of you take it off and flip it over and show, show everyone. So you wanna take a look at it. So you wanna look inside here to see what the gasket looks like. There's no gasket, you know, no wonders. Okay, so you wanna take a look and see. So this ga, that gasket was probably ripped off. I don't know if it was leaking as hard to tell.
But you wanna one of you take it off and flip it over and show, show everyone. So you wanna take a look at it. So you wanna look inside here to see what the gasket looks like. There's no gasket, you know, no wonders. Okay, so you wanna take a look and see. So this ga, that gasket was probably ripped off. I don't know if it was leaking as hard to tell.
It doesn't look like they're named carbing tracking 'cause that's what you're looking for. Now, if I had a blown head gasket, I probably would see Marks somewheres. Here or here? Here. Okay, you can, you can put that one down. But the, I think that gasket was just old and it ripped off and it stayed on there.
So you gotta observe that stuff. Now it looks black here, right? Kind of the overheating looks like overheating. But if I can rub this off, is that overheating? Oh, it's probably mechanical wear. So let's. Let's wipe it off. Oh wow. It's going away. See how now it's all clean. Now. So this here is most likely mechanical wear.
So this is the story you're starting to think of. Well what, what can be a mechanical wear? Lack of lubrication. But what cause this is your wrist pins, your ri, your rings, your rods, whatever it is. Pieces of that compressor now are up here. So is this overheat? No. It's most likely mechanical wear. But you need to figure this out.
So this is the story you're starting to think of. Well what, what can be a mechanical wear? Lack of lubrication. But what cause this is your wrist pins, your ri, your rings, your rods, whatever it is. Pieces of that compressor now are up here. So is this overheat? No. It's most likely mechanical wear. But you need to figure this out.
It could be flood back 'cause it could be the main, the main bearing. It could be a little bit overheat, but you need to understand the story of these different types of mechanical issues. Okay, let's take this one off here.
So now we looked at this side. So these ones they look at, these are discharge backers. So if you flip it over. So now, oh, so now we got some action happening. So what's missing there? So what do you guys think this, these are, and some of you have never worked on these, but these are the discharge pucks they call them or discs.
That's okay. Right? So what would've caused this?

Speaker 5 (00:54):
That's gotta be flipped back 'cause it's got it's way under there.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Pushed it. Okay. Anybody else? We, we talked about this. What, what caused this? Slug. Slug. Yeah. Okay. And how do you get a slug in a refrigerant? Cool. Compressor flooded starts. Okay, now this one's even more interesting 'cause you can dive a little bit deeper because now I got this, this discharge bust it and this compressor will still run if it's electrically good.
Pushed it. Okay. Anybody else? We, we talked about this. What, what caused this? Slug. Slug. Yeah. Okay. And how do you get a slug in a refrigerant? Cool. Compressor flooded starts. Okay, now this one's even more interesting 'cause you can dive a little bit deeper because now I got this, this discharge bust it and this compressor will still run if it's electrically good.
And it just took a s slug and you gotta bust it. What's gonna, your gauges gonna look like.

Speaker 5 (00:55):
Less discharge pressure than

Speaker 2 (00:55):
usual. So they're gonna, they're gonna have, is gonna be a higher compressor ratio or a lower compression ratio higher. Compression, lower compression ratio. Yeah, that's okay. Sorry, a

Speaker 7 (00:55):
little dyslexic sometimes.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
No, that's okay. Lower compression rate. 'cause you're not doing as much work. I'm not doing any work in this cylinder as it compresses. Okay, but now this took a slug, this discharge is blowing. This discharge stops the discharge of gas going into the suction. Do you agree with that? So what is going on in this piston now with nose discharge?
What's happening there? Leaking. Leaking by, but is there discharge pressure pushing down on that piston or not?
Yeah, it's causing piston because when this pushes up, you discharge out here and this opens up and then it closes, opens up and closes open up and closes. Now if I don't have this here to stop it, what is happening on this? This piston hammering, pushing down on it. So now I got a lot of pressure. So now I got my piston trying to push up and I got discharge gas pushing down on it.
Yeah, it's causing piston because when this pushes up, you discharge out here and this opens up and then it closes, opens up and closes open up and closes. Now if I don't have this here to stop it, what is happening on this? This piston hammering, pushing down on it. So now I got a lot of pressure. So now I got my piston trying to push up and I got discharge gas pushing down on it.
What does that lead to now? Does anybody know where? What type of wear? Wrist pin wear. And this is where like if this compressor was electrically good, mechanically good, and a technician came in, oh, it's just a discharge. Everything inside looks good goes. It doesn't look too, too bad and they don't check your wrist pin.
You could have a knock it, be knock, knock knocking in a few weeks. Your customer's gonna say, you gotta change that compressor. Anyway. So how long did this, we got the system out and everything. There's pumped down. But how long would this take you? This, this amount of time to do in the field? 10 minutes. 10 minutes.
Oh, half an hour. Some people say, do you have a half an hour to do something like this in the field? I know a lot of you work on residential smaller stuff and it's tighter stuff, but when you're working more into commercial stuff, you do have a little bit of time. You know? And you can do this, all of you can.
Oh, half an hour. Some people say, do you have a half an hour to do something like this in the field? I know a lot of you work on residential smaller stuff and it's tighter stuff, but when you're working more into commercial stuff, you do have a little bit of time. You know? And you can do this, all of you can.
I know 100 you're sitting here today. I know you can do it. So we pull it off. We understand that the next step is to take off the pump. These are the two things that you, all you need to do is after you pump it down is pull off the head, check the valve plate, and pull the pump off. 'cause you want to do something, you wanna do the wrist pin check and you want to do the main bearing check of a semi hermetic compressor.
Okay. So if you wanna just take off these bolts here and see if we can knock that pump off. Not those ones, just these ones. Yep.
Concerned. Yeah. Yeah, that's a, that's a big thing. You gotta educate your customer as well. 'cause this could save the customer $10,000 for a $400. Service replacement. Or fix a repair. Yeah. Just that. This

Speaker (00:57):
one? This one or this one? No, just this one. Okay. And I don't know if we'll be able to get it off.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
And always like, it's easy on Copelands. You can scan, scan the, the model number and get all the information of that compressor. Okay. You can do it with you. The Bitzer does have a scan software, so you can scan the bitzer's. Now TE company can't remember, I don't know if they have a scan one yet, but you can get all their information.
And always like, it's easy on Copelands. You can scan, scan the, the model number and get all the information of that compressor. Okay. You can do it with you. The Bitzer does have a scan software, so you can scan the bitzer's. Now TE company can't remember, I don't know if they have a scan one yet, but you can get all their information.
Oh yeah, take that off. Yeah, pull that off then. So you wanna pull off the head safely, pull off the valve plate safely, and you want to take off the pump. And as a technician, if you do this, you're gonna be able to tell the story of that compressor. Because what check when I pull off this pump, what are, what are the two things we're gonna be looking for?
Does anybody know? What's that? On the pump? Yeah, on the pump. You got all the bolts out? Yep.

Speaker (00:58):
Okay. Let's, yeah. Oh man.
Oh, well, let's see if we can pop it off.

Speaker 8 (00:58):
Cast on your never breaks.

Speaker (00:58):
We may not get it off, but,

Speaker 2 (00:58):
okay, well, we're not gonna get it off. Not gonna spin. I've, I've taken a lot of compressors apart, but, and not in a very nice way, but you want to take this off here? Okay. And when you take that off it, it's the crankshafts right there. That pump is connected to the crankshaft and the crankshaft has holes drilled through it.
So as it's spinning, as it's spinning, oil is going up and feeding all the journals, all the bearings. And so if you have flood back and you have that liquid refrigerator coming back, 'cause it's not boiling off in the evaporator, it goes inside. You got it. Awesome. Okay. So yeah, spin it around. See if you can pump.
So as it's spinning, as it's spinning, oil is going up and feeding all the journals, all the bearings. And so if you have flood back and you have that liquid refrigerator coming back, 'cause it's not boiling off in the evaporator, it goes inside. You got it. Awesome. Okay. So yeah, spin it around. See if you can pump.
So, so look mechanically, I know some of you can't see it, but it's pumping. Okay. So now see if they all go up dead center. So that one goes top. Let's check this one. That'll blow. Keep going. Oh, it doesn't See, this one doesn't. So now if you didn't do this check and you said okay, I'm just gonna replace the valve plate, well the compressor's gonna be in big trouble 'cause there's a wrist pin wear on this one.
So now it's like instead of spending a thousand dollars that customer to do a a valve replacement or 2000, they're gonna spend 2000 plus you coming back and replacing the compressor again because the wrist pin here is done. So what? So did you hear that?

Speaker 5 (00:59):
Yeah. No, that was the branch Blum Blump hear

Speaker 2 (00:59):
that it Speaker 5
It's manu, it's moving.
You hear that? I know it's hard to hear, but. Did you guys hear it? Oh, you did? Okay. That's wrist pin wear. And that is due from, what was it due from? What's the story? Flood. Okay. Flooded start. It was actually, it's even before that. It's the migration that caused the flooded start that caused the slug, that busted the discharge valve, which led to discharge pressure pushing onto the pin, which led to oil not being able to get up into the wrist pin, which caused wrist pin wear.
You hear that? I know it's hard to hear, but. Did you guys hear it? Oh, you did? Okay. That's wrist pin wear. And that is due from, what was it due from? What's the story? Flood. Okay. Flooded start. It was actually, it's even before that. It's the migration that caused the flooded start that caused the slug, that busted the discharge valve, which led to discharge pressure pushing onto the pin, which led to oil not being able to get up into the wrist pin, which caused wrist pin wear.
So there's a whole story there and it doesn't matter, this is just one story on this one compressor, but every system has a story and the other check. So that's a wrist pin check. The other one is you can move this back and forth, but it's up and downplay. So try to do up and down to see if you got any up and downplay.
What do you think? Back and forth. It's okay, but up and down there's no nothing. But if you get that up and downplay, I know 100% that was flood back. A hundred percent. I know that was flood back 'cause the main bearing that's raided in here has been war. These are the things that you need to think of. John.
Question.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
Okay, we, we have a, a bout valve plate on the discharge site flood back. As far as how it affects the
Okay, we, we have a, a bout valve plate on the discharge site flood back. As far as how it affects the

Speaker 2 (01:01):
suction read. So flood back will not affect the suction. Read flood back is gonna affect the oil. So it dilutes the oil. So as the oil is picked up, 'cause there's holes drilled in this compressor, they're different.
It picks up the oil, it goes through this pump here and the pump feeds it through all the journals, all the holes in the crankshaft, which goes to this last main bearing right here. So here's where it's separated, here's where it goes, which helds onto the stator. Okay, so what happens to that main bearing if it starts to wear?
What happens to the crankshaft? Does the state nice and level? It starts to sag. And then what does, then what happens? Starts to call something called rotor drag. And so you hear and then you get electrical failure. So if you don't look inside and do this check, you come up, oh, I'm grounded, I'm shorted, I'm turn to turn.
Whatever it is you say, okay, let's just replace the compressor. But if you didn't check that, oh, I have real bad flood back happening. That's why the compressor failed because that stator dropped because the main bearing wore and caused that stater to fail. So here's a whole story. Thanks Max. I gotta understand that story.
Whatever it is you say, okay, let's just replace the compressor. But if you didn't check that, oh, I have real bad flood back happening. That's why the compressor failed because that stator dropped because the main bearing wore and caused that stater to fail. So here's a whole story. Thanks Max. I gotta understand that story.
So, flood back.

Speaker 7 (01:02):
So what caused section re valve?

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Okay, great question. What causes suction re valve to have issues or fail? That

Speaker 3 (01:02):
was the majority of what I

Speaker 2 (01:02):
found on mot. Okay. Okay. What, what does anyone think? So re valves would be these ones here that this one here has failed.
Too high. So what would cause that? Anybody? What do you think? So a slug would cause them to fail is one, right? So a flooded start that causes a slug. This is all have to liquid. Overheating. Liquid. So overheating could cause it. Metal fatigue exactly. Could cause it, but this is why you need to look at it.
Really low compression ratio could cause it because you, the read, they start flapping like this. So there's many different things and this is why you need to understand the story of that compressor. And will you notice a story when you go when the compressors failed? No. You will have to put a compressor in, but if you don't figure out what caused that compressor to fail, how do you know how long that one's gonna last?
Really low compression ratio could cause it because you, the read, they start flapping like this. So there's many different things and this is why you need to understand the story of that compressor. And will you notice a story when you go when the compressors failed? No. You will have to put a compressor in, but if you don't figure out what caused that compressor to fail, how do you know how long that one's gonna last?
If that makes sense.

Speaker 5 (01:03):
It has to be liquid because it's rounds like it was trying to compress.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Okay. Thank you very much.
We only got a few minutes left and I love talking, so I could talk here for another six hours, but I know it's hard to see what would've caused this. This is like this. This is sim. This is similar right here. So that would be, that's on a K body. So there's a bearing inside here. What would cause this bearing that gets the oil, the first place that gets oil?
What would cause that to? It's not getting none, but this is the first place where it gets oil wash out. What else? I haven't heard it yet. Dropped oil. Dropped oil. What else? Bad oil, refrigerator, refrigerant, migration, flooded starts. This is the first place that gets oil. Unless I look at this compressor, it's all burnt and everything's black and it ran outta oil and this sees off.
But if I go try to take an oil pump off and it's stuck there and I can't pull this off, that means refrigerant must have got in there and washed out that oil. 'cause oil should be everywhere. Okay? So if it's stuck in there, most likely that's a flood is start to cause that. What about this one here? This is the bottom of a scroll.
But if I go try to take an oil pump off and it's stuck there and I can't pull this off, that means refrigerant must have got in there and washed out that oil. 'cause oil should be everywhere. Okay? So if it's stuck in there, most likely that's a flood is start to cause that. What about this one here? This is the bottom of a scroll.
The bottom underneath of the scroll. If you pull it off and it looks like that or it's seized,
cut open a scroll. And that's the thrust surface. You have liquid that comes up, the crankshaft and feeds. Feeds everything with oil. That oil doesn't make it up there.
When you open a compressor and it looks like that. And that's the bottom, that's oscillating scroll. And that bearings war, that is 100% that flood back. That liquid comes down to suction, gets in the oil, it goes up the crank shop and starts to wear washing out the oil. This one here, we just talked about this.
This is a rotor. What caused this one? I know it's super hard to see. That's the stator. Here's the rotor. We just talked about it. The bearing fail. Why did the bearing fail? Didn't have lubrication. Didn't have lubrication. What causes the thing to not have lubrication? Flood back. Flood back. So this is what you need to understand the difference.
'cause I could say liquid. Oh, it's liquid. Yes, 100%. But what type of liquid? Why? How? Where's it coming from? Is it, is it flood? It starts, is it flood back? If it's slugging, you need to understand this to find that story out. This one here should be obvious overheating, but what caused that overheating? We talked about it.
'cause I could say liquid. Oh, it's liquid. Yes, 100%. But what type of liquid? Why? How? Where's it coming from? Is it, is it flood? It starts, is it flood back? If it's slugging, you need to understand this to find that story out. This one here should be obvious overheating, but what caused that overheating? We talked about it.
It could be compression ratio, it could be a restriction, it could be the condenser fan. Is the wrong condenser fan. Wrong condenser fan blade. The. Inside. Yeah. That's a difference. That one's like the dust of stuff inside that, that became like, that's carbon. Yeah, that's, so this is oil broken down and it's carbon and there may be metal and stuff as well in there, but just on the condenser, it could be the, the fan blades are put on backwards.
It could be the wrong fan motor, it could be the wrong stage fan motor. It could be a dirty condenser. These are all different things. Yes. On the condenser alone, that could cause something that looked like that over charge. Overcharge. Well overcharge. Yeah. 'cause you have, yeah, you're right. What's this one here?
What would cause this s slog. So you got, and it takes time to learn all this. I didn't learn this overnight. I've been spending years on it, but just by looking at pictures, what do you think? This is a good one. This one did come from Steve Wagner. How long do you think this compressor was in the field and do you think it was a failed compressor?
Let's start. How long do you, does it look like it would've been in the field, but just by the picture? What. For a while. A while. Years and years. Okay. First of all, it was only in two weeks. Brand new compressor. Why does it look like this?
Let's start. How long do you, does it look like it would've been in the field, but just by the picture? What. For a while. A while. Years and years. Okay. First of all, it was only in two weeks. Brand new compressor. Why does it look like this?
Why do you think it looks like this? Rust. Why do you think, what's that DAM environment? No, no, no
loose connection. No. I thought the same thing when Steve sent it to me. He said they didn't change the lugs. They didn't change the lugs. Okays, okay? And then they put it on and then, I don't know, it might be hard to see right here. What does it look like here? Can you see that? Can you see the carbon tracking?
Do you know what Steve told me? He said he pulled that off and the compressor was 100% fine. So these are the things you need to dive in a little bit deeper. And I'll be honest with you, before I worked for cope, when I did work for them, I didn't know this stuff. And this is why I'm sharing this knowledge with you so you can share it with somebody else.
Okay? Couple mobile apps that you need to have if you don't have them. How many of you have yeah. Application engineering by Emerson? Yes. Cobra Mobile. Bitzer. B spot. Awesome. A VAC School. There you go. You need these apps. Yeah, you need to have, there's many more. I just put a few up there that's gonna help you with your troubleshooting skills, your learning skills and growing.
Okay? Couple mobile apps that you need to have if you don't have them. How many of you have yeah. Application engineering by Emerson? Yes. Cobra Mobile. Bitzer. B spot. Awesome. A VAC School. There you go. You need these apps. Yeah, you need to have, there's many more. I just put a few up there that's gonna help you with your troubleshooting skills, your learning skills and growing.
Okay. Educational resources. You should know a lot of these ones. HVAC school, Chris Stevens from HVA Sierra School. The tool she guys. If you wanna learn some stuff, these are the people you should be following. R 7 44. I recommend that because I do a lot of refrigeration training. I love CO2 natural refrigerant, so it's a good place to learn about something that you don't know much about, maybe.
And then HVAC know it all. Another influencer in Canada shares a lot of knowledge with the industry, so you should be looking these guys up, finding the information to put out there.
Or you can go to my website, go to courses and do quizzes, ww dot refrigeration mentor.com. Go to courses and quiz and do a 10 question quiz on what we talked about today. Just to test your knowledge. See if you learn some of this stuff. 'cause you need to test your competency. It's super important. So you can find me in lots of different places. Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn, my website, refrigeration mentor.com.
Or you can go to my website, go to courses and do quizzes, ww dot refrigeration mentor.com. Go to courses and quiz and do a 10 question quiz on what we talked about today. Just to test your knowledge. See if you learn some of this stuff. 'cause you need to test your competency. It's super important. So you can find me in lots of different places. Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn, my website, refrigeration mentor.com.
I got all the podcasts I've done with Brian and other influencers in the industry trying to get out there, share more knowledge to help help the industry out. I'll take any questions. I know Chris is going up here in less than a minute or two 'cause I want to get out there as well. But any questions?

Speaker 3 (01:08):
Maybe adding a wheelhouse, but formulation of the compressor oil being used. We had a problem. A while back, too much corrosion inhibitor being put into the oil causing

Speaker 2 (01:08):
expansion valves to gum up. Yeah. So I, there's lots of controversy. I heard lots of different sides about that. But what some people said, if there was a proper evacuation, 'cause I think it was some sort of moisture inhibitor in there, if it was proper, it could have been not proper evacuation, it could have been an inhibitor.
I don't know the answer or not the answer on that, but I, I heard about lots of that. I sent through a class on that once

Speaker 8 (01:08):
said that there was some compressors based on c tell you which ones that had something that was coming from a steel that was coming from a plant before they got it, that had a corrosion
said that there was some compressors based on c tell you which ones that had something that was coming from a steel that was coming from a plant before they got it, that had a corrosion

Speaker 2 (01:09):
inhibitor.
Yeah.Speaker 8: And they didn't know about it until
like two years in. Yeah. So there was a batch of compressors that did have those issues

Speaker 8 (01:09):
and they, but they took responsibility for all.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, we would have to follow up with Copeland. I don't know that answer to that. Any other questions?
I heard about it though, but if you ever do have questions Yeah, go ahead. Is that in person or is it all online? That's all online. All my stuff. Virtual and best way. Getting out. Evaporated. Drill a hole in the bottom of it. Safely pump down. Thank you very much everybody. Really appreciate it.
I heard about it though, but if you ever do have questions Yeah, go ahead. Is that in person or is it all online? That's all online. All my stuff. Virtual and best way. Getting out. Evaporated. Drill a hole in the bottom of it. Safely pump down. Thank you very much everybody. Really appreciate it.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 295. A Compressor Story: The Key to Faster Troubleshooting

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Episode 295. A Compressor Story: The Key to Faster Troubleshooting

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