March 20, 2025 • 30 mins
Grab your essential FREE guide - How to clear excess stock without damaging your brand.
-----
For small businesses, every customer counts. But how do you turn a one-time buyer into a loyal customer? It’s not just in having great products, but it’s in your emails.
Today, I’m joined by Hannah Spicer, an email marketing strategist who knows what it takes to keep customers coming back. She’s worked with top luxury and premium brands, and she’s here to share what really works.
We’ll break down how email marketing goes beyond sales. From automated flows to post-purchase messages, small tweaks in timing and personalisation can make all the difference. Plus, Hannah shares simple, effective ways to use Klaviyo and other tools.
If you want to build better customer relationships and make your emails work harder, this episode is for you.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Resilient Retail Game Plan.
(00:02):
Today is Thursday the 20th ofMarch, if you're listening to this
on the day that it is released,in which case it is Retail ROAR.
That is my free online summit for productbusiness owners and independent retailers.
You need to head over toretailroar.co.uk and sign up for your
(00:24):
free space if you haven't done so.
Already you do not want to miss this.
We have the best retail entrepreneursand experts who are sharing their
expertise and it's all completely free.
So if you haven't done so alreadyshoot over to retailroar.co.uk
and get yourself signed up.
If you can't watch live, don't worry.
You'll be able to watch the replays overthe weekend, but you need to be signed up.
So today I'm delighted to welcometo the podcast, Hannah Spicer.
(00:47):
Hannah Spicer is an emailmarketing strategist.
I've known Hannah for many years, andshe's done some incredible work with
really amazing luxury and premium brands.
And she's also super passionateabout the role of email marketing
in retaining customers and buildingyour customer lifetime value.
So we're going to jump straightin with a discussion of how your
(01:08):
email marketing can create not justcustomers, but customers for life.
Welcome to the Resilient Retail GamePlan, a podcast for anyone wanting to
start, grow or scale a profitable creativeproduct business with me, Catherine Erdly.
(01:28):
The Resilient Retail Game Plan isa podcast dedicated to one thing,
breaking down the concepts and toolsthat I've gathered from 20 years in
the retail industry and showing youhow you can use them in your business.
This is the real nuts and bolts ofrunning a successful product business,
broken down in an easy, accessible way.
This is not a podcast about learninghow to make your business look good.
(01:52):
It's the tools and techniques that willmake you and your business feel good.
Confidently plan, launch, and manageyour products, and feel in control of
your sales numbers and cash flow to helpyou build a resilient retail business.
(02:13):
Hannah, welcome to the podcast.
It's so great to have you with us.
Do you want to start us off byintroducing yourself and your business?
Yes.
Thank you so much for having me.
I did corner you at an eventand asked you to have me on.
So thank you for saying yes.
My name is Hannah Spicer.
I've worked in digital marketingand e commerce for over 20 years,
(02:33):
and I now run my own consultancycalled Hannah Spicer Consulting.
And we are focused on helping premiumand luxury brands get the most out
of their email marketing as possible.
Amazing.
And we actually met,I think, pre pandemic.
If is that correct?
Yes.
We did, yeah.
A long time ago, I know.
(02:54):
Because I used to run eveningpanel talks back in the day.
It seems like such a long timeago now, and we met there.
So it's wonderful to have youwith us, because I know you've
worked with quite an overlap.
Lots of my clients have workedwith you and vice versa.
So, it's really great to have you, andI'm excited to delve into today's topic.
Because obviously I know youpredominantly looking at luxury, but
(03:15):
ultimately I think what you focus onis relevant to pretty much everybody
who sells products, would you say?
It really is.
Yeah, absolutely.
So all of the kind of journeys andtactics are relevant for any business.
It's just done in a different way.
But yes, absolutely.
There'll be learnings for everybody,small and big and premium or not.
Amazing.
So we're going to be talking aboutcustomer retention and loyalty, and I
(03:38):
know that you're really passionate aboutemail flows as a way of doing that.
I know that we hear a lot aboutautomated email flows, but for
someone who's not super familiarwith them, can you explain what they
are in a nutshell and why they're sopowerful for e commerce businesses?
Yeah, absolutely.
So there's a few different kinds ofemails that we send to customers.
So let's just cover off the kindof least interesting one first,
(04:02):
which was transactional emails.
So that will be things likeorder confirmation, order
dispatch, return confirmation.
Those emails that tend to go from youre commerce platform, like Shopify,
they're not seen as marketing emails.
They're treated a little bit differently.
Then when we look at marketingemails, we have, if you're using
Klaviyo, I'll use those names.
(04:23):
They're called campaigns or there's flows.
Mm hmm.
So campaigns, which are also sometimesreferred to as newsletters, are
the one off emails that somebodymanually goes in and builds and
writes and creates and sends.
So things like new in, hmm.
best sellers, or a salelaunch, anything like that.
(04:45):
A flow, which is also sometimes calledan automation or a triggered email is
created once, and then it continuallytriggers depending on what a user does.
One example that probably mostpeople will be familiar with
is an abandoned checkout flow.
So we probably all receivethose if we shop online.
Which is, it's triggered by someoneadding an item to their cart and
(05:08):
then not completing the checkout.
Mm hmm.
Ideally, for your retailbusiness, you have both of
these kind of emails in place.
You've got your campaigns on onehand, which are really good at kind of
keeping you top of mind and respondingto things that are going on at that
time, like Valentine's Day or whatever.
And then your flows aretriggering in the background.
(05:30):
And working hard for you andalso driving a lot of revenue.
And the reason why flows are reallyimportant is because by their very nature,
they're much more targeted and relevant.
So they tend to get higheropen click and conversion rates
because they are responding tosomething that the person has done.
So if you think about, if you've got bothof those in place, your email marketing
(05:55):
could be driving anywhere between 30 to 50percent of your total e commerce revenue.
Mm hmm.
And then if you drill down to thosedifferent types, you're probably looking
for like a 50 percent split between flowsand campaigns just to give you an idea.
Okay, that's really interesting.
And I think that's fascinatingthat it carries as high as 50%.
I think I often say like arounda third, it's almost healthy.
(06:18):
It's like around a third.
If it's below that, there's definitelymoney you're leaving on the table
for e commerce from email marketing.
But interesting.
So you would say you would expect tosee a 50-50 split between flows and
newsletters or flows and campaigns?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, interesting.
And this is a bit of a side note, but Iwas just curious about your take on it.
Cause you mentioned transactional emailsand I know there's sort of like the, you
(06:41):
know, like a sort of poor relation asit were sometimes in email marketing.
Or it's like we think about justtransactional emails, but I'm
just curious, cause obviouslyyou're working in luxury where
it's all about brand experience.
It's all about that.
Do you presumably wouldtake a look at even those?
Because sometimes I get, obviously mostof the time you just get like a really
bog standard, like your orders on its way.
(07:03):
But then sometimes I do getan, a transactional email.
That's actually quite sort ofquirky or it's fun or it's in
a very specific brand tone.
Do you think that they can be anopportunity to do a bit of brand building?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think you want to kind of takea look at the design of them and
as much as possible, keep themconsistent with your marketing emails.
(07:24):
And yeah, absolutely bring inyour tone of voice and make them
feel a bit more fun or engaging.
Or whatever your brand values arebecause they are still really important
and they will be very highly opened.
So yes, if you can bring in that nicecopy and tone of voice and design and
overall look feel then, then definitely.
Yeah, fantastic.
(07:45):
Okay, so thank you so much for that.
It's a really clear distinction then.
You've got your campaigns, you've gotyour flows, and they should be about
50-50, which is really fascinating.
I'm sure a lot of people listeningare probably going to go away and
check and see where they're at.
But I'd love to just touch on kind ofthe purpose of some of those automated
flows because a lot of brands arefocusing on getting new customers,
but keeping them coming back isthe real challenge in a way, right?
(08:08):
You know, that's how you buildprofitably because you're not
constantly trying to get newness in.
But what are some of the beststrategies that you would
recommend for driving retentionusing those post purchase emails?
I totally agree.
I think there is a big focus onwelcome flows, abandoned checkout,
abandoned browse flows , and rightly so.
(08:28):
Those are really important.
And I typically do see those flowsdriving, they're normally the top
three performers in terms of revenue.
But obviously abandoned checkoutand abandoned browse will be going
to your existing customers too.
What I think is neglected a lot of thetime is what happens after the purchase.
So again, there's like a wholesuite of flows that we can think
(08:50):
about in this space as well.
If you think about how much moneyand time and effort it costs now to
acquire a new customer is much morechallenging than it was during COVID.
We really want to make sure that we'regetting the most value out of those
customers in terms of repeat purchaseand building that lifetime value.
I think there's things like win backflows, there's anniversary flows.
(09:13):
But I think the most importantflow is a post purchase flow.
And that's got quite a lot of differenttactics and strategies built into it.
And it can be as long as,a month or even longer.
It's really kind of taking yourcustomers on quite a considered journey
once they place an order with you.
So if we talk a bit throughwhat that could look like.
(09:35):
Yeah.
So obviously the day that they placean order with you, they're going to
get their order confirmation email.
I would recommend a day after that,starting to follow up and making them
feel good about their purchase whilethey're sitting at home waiting for it.
So it's almost like creatingthe opposite of buyer's remorse.
So how can I make them feel good thatthey've spent their money with me?
(09:58):
In that moment where they mightthink, "Oh, I don't know if I
should have spent that money."And this is really about a kind of
brand building, storytelling email.
So it could be a note from thefounder, if you're a small business.
It could be a reminder of how andwhy and where you make your products.
You know, you can even say like,we are busy creating or wrapping
your item while you're waiting.
(10:20):
Here's a reminder of our values.
And like, you can talkabout your sustainability.
Or what your mission is, likehow your products are different.
It's all about kind of makingthem feel good about that order.
So not really a commercial one.
It's really about kind ofbuilding that relationship.
I'd also then recommend triggeringan email about the time that you
expect them to receive that item.
(10:41):
And then it's about kind of makingthem feel inspired and educated
and confident to start using it.
Also, kind of touching in tosee if there's any issues or
questions and also I think socialmedia can come in here as well.
So kind of.
trying to engage them to postthat wonderful unboxing moment
and start to kind of engagewith you on socials as well.
(11:04):
But if you've got something like abeauty or a supplement brand, it's giving
them the information they need to startusing the product, like how to actually
use it and get the most out of it.
If it's something like clothing orhomeware, it might be more how to
style it or how to clean it so theyfeel confident to start wearing it
or putting it out in their house.
(11:25):
If it's food and drink,recipe inspiration, right?
How do you immediately get someoneexcited to start using your product?
Yeah, that's really interesting.
I just recently bought somevery silly running socks.
Which I got loads of ads for on Instagramand then eventually I bought them.
They got unicorns onthem They say stay magic.
Anyway, I was like, I'mdoing a lot of running.
(11:46):
I can have some fun socks.
And you're absolutely right.
I did get an email from themsaying how to wash them.
Which is actually super useful, right?
Because the last thing you want to dois get a new item, then accidentally
shrink it in the washing machine.
Totally.
Yeah, I think it's really clever.
And I think I'd got a new supplementthat I'd started using and there was
all the different ways you kind ofbring it into your daily routine.
(12:07):
Like you can add it to your tea,you can add it to some porridge.
You can add it to like, it's justmaking it really easy and making
people start using the product.
Because if they don't start usingit, they're not going to review it
and they're definitely not goingto come back and buy it again.
So it's kind of making sure it doesn'tget left on the shelf, but they're
actually bringing it into their lifestyle.
Yeah, yeah.
I love that.
Have you actually seen that interms of when you work with clients?
(12:28):
That you've seen an uptake in returncustomers there when you implement
something like this to get themactually using it and engaging?
Do you see actual engagement andpeople interacting on social media?
Like what kind of impact does it have?
Yeah, we definitely, I'm kindof focusing on the metrics
on the email side of things.
And I see really high opens andclicks in this time of like nurturing
(12:52):
a customer once they've boughtwith you to start getting used to
the product, feeling confident,and kind of checking in with them.
And I don't think it's one email.
I think it's about continuing to do that.
And especially again, if it's kindof a supplement or a beauty or
a skincare piece, there's a lotof space to kind of continue to
do that as they go on using it.
(13:12):
I worked with a supplement brandwho, it's a collagen brand.
So you wouldn't really see theresults until you've been taking
it for about a month, right?
So you actually have to nurture themfor a month to keep taking it before
you can even start to say, "okay, noware you seeing any results? Like, can
you give me feedback?" and that'sanother thing that we should be thinking
(13:33):
about on this post purchase journey is.
Asking them for feedback and reviews.
We obviously know the powerof user generated content.
So making sure that that issomewhere in the journey as well.
Um, And then I think just as we talkedabout, like driving that repeat purchase,
it's really important to come back andthen cross sell and upsell to them.
(13:54):
So you can do that with like personalizedproduct recommendations, which If
you're using Klaviyo, you can buildwithin the template really easily.
Um, you can do it with newness.
If you have quite regular productdrops, you can bring people back.
That's a really popular kindof, um, driver for people
to come back to your site.
And you can also do it with replenishment.
(14:14):
If you've got a replenish, replenishableproduct, that's another way to do it.
And then finally, one thing I thinkthat people miss, because we're talking
specifically around trying to get someonefrom a one time to a repeat customer.
What you can do is if they haven'tbought with you again, and you've
tried a lot of this content andtactics and kind of cross selling, you
(14:35):
can then target them with a unique,limited time second purchase offer.
And you can allude to that and say,"Hey, we'd love for you to add to
your collection as a valued customer.
Here's 10 percent off if you useit within five days." like drive
that sense of urgency, make themlike understand why they're getting
(14:55):
the often that it's limited time.
And it's really targeted to try andget them to get that second purchase.
Once they do, they're so muchmore likely for that third,
fourth, fifth purchase to happen.
Mmm, yeah.
It's worth doing.
Yeah.
Well, actually, I wanted to ask youthat because I presume when you're
talking about this post purchase flowthat you set up, this is very much
(15:15):
for somebody who's bought for thefirst time, but do you suggest that
there's something for people who boughtfor the second time or the third?
Yeah, I do.
Yeah, so I normally split that flow out.
You can create, not to get tootechnical, but you can create
split paths within a flow.
So I would still be asking them forfeedback because they might be trying
a different product and they stillwant to feel looked after and nurtured.
(15:38):
And you can do things like, when it's afirst time purchase, you can say, "Thanks
for shopping with us for the first time.We so appreciate you taking this leap."
If it's a second time purchase,you can say, thank you so much
for shopping with us again.
We really appreciate your loyalty,like make it super relevant.
You could even do another split path forsomeone where it's their fourth plus order
and say, "Oh my gosh, we are so gratefulthat you're continuing to shop with us."
(16:01):
That we so appreciate yourloyalty, like try and make them
really targeted and relevant.
But yes, absolutely.
You can still take those peopleon a post purchase journey.
You just probably don't want to have thatoffer at the end of it every time because
you want to drive full price purchases.
It's easy to underestimate howmuch that means to customers.
Yeah, it's really interesting.
(16:22):
I was interviewingsomebody for Retail ROAR.
That I'm a customer of theirs, and Iwas saying that, Oh yeah, you've got
that secret website you send out topeople once they've bought from you.
And he said, "Oh, actually you onlyget, you've got to jump through a few
more hoops. It's not just if you buyfrom us once." And I was so delighted.
(16:43):
Yeah.
Yeah, I went and told my family, I waslike, remember that secret website?
Apparently not everybody gets that.
And it's like, it's so funnybecause we often think about
selling to people as like, "Oh mygoodness, we can't be too pushy."
But like, I was absolutely delighted thatI'd had access to something that was only
for people who bought more than once.
And I do think that itmeans a lot to people.
(17:04):
And I often say this to clients, it'slike, you can't underestimate how
much people really appreciate yousaying, thanks for coming back again.
Because I've had it where I've bought froma brand, say two, three, even four times.
And I get the same email each timesaying, "Thanks so much for supporting
us, this is about our brand." And ofcourse I get, it can be a lot to set up,
but there's a little bit of me that'skind of like, Oh, but I know, cause I've
(17:25):
bought from you before and if it saidlike, thanks for coming back, I would
have been so delighted people noticed.
That's it.
It's about, I totally agree.
It's about making people feellike recognized and rewarded.
If we liken it back to when we all wentto our local grocers or whatever on
the high street and you'd walk in, ifthey didn't say like, "Hi, Catherine,"
(17:47):
you'd be like, " Excuse me?" Like it'sabout that it's a relationship and it
should take nurturing and recognition.
And little, little things like that aresaying: thanks for coming back again.
Makes a big difference.
Yeah, for sure.
On a purely practical note, if you'vegot somebody who's in a nurture sequence
that's say, a month long, would youhold them out of your newsletter or
(18:11):
campaigns while they're getting that?
Or do you think as long as you're notsending too many emails, it's okay?
Oh, it's such a good question.
I think it is different for the brand.
It does depend on how manycampaigns you're sending and
how long that sequence is.
Brands that are a bit more establishedand have more data tend to close those
(18:32):
journeys in because they are very clearon okay, there's typically 30 days between
someone's first and second purchase.
So we are going to take them on thisconsidered journey and we don't want any
other noise happening at the same time.
I think probably for smaller businesseswho maybe aren't sending as many
campaigns and maybe don't have as strongdata on what that looks like, feel
(18:56):
free to kind of keep everything going.
You'll still have like a cap on howmany emails people could get in one day.
So yeah, it does depend alittle bit on the business.
Mm hmm.
Okay, so it's something to thinkabout, but unless you're somebody
who's sending multiple emails aday, then you're probably fine.
Yeah it's, yeah.
(19:16):
Campaigns can be so powerful at kindof keeping you top of mind and kind
of planting, making sure that yourbrand is in the customer's head.
And then your flow campaigncan be really targeted.
It's like, "Hi, Catherine, youhaven't made a second purchase yet.
Here's 10 percent off." "Oh mygosh, of course." So I think
they've both got a part to play.
(19:37):
Yeah, for sure.
So what is a common mistake that you seebrands making with their post purchase
emails and how can they fix that?
Yeah, so I think there's twoof the most common I see.
So one is the timing actually.
So I sometimes see brands have gotlike a thank you sequence, but they're
trying to cross out to somebody theday after they place their first order.
(20:00):
I actually had this with a brandrecently, a eyelash serum brand.
And I ordered it and I immediatelygot an offer on my next purchase.
And I was like, "Oh my gosh, why would Iorder another one yet? I've got no idea if
this works or not. I haven't even receivedit and tried it." So I think think about
the timing and also some people will askfor a review at the wrong time as well.
(20:21):
As I said, you've really got tothink about that when they've had
the chance to actually use yourproduct and they can feedback.
And then I think the other mostcommon mistake is that people don't
do this kind of nurturing part of it.
So they're like very focusedon the products and trying
to get you to shop again.
But they don't think about content andbrand building and asking for feedback
(20:42):
and creating that trust and relationship.
Rather than just trying tosell, sell, sell to them again.
So those are the two,like timing and content.
And what percentage?
I'm just always curious cause youknow, we're probably all shopped
with even bigger brands thatdon't really do this super well.
But if you were to do this, do youthink you'd be in the top 50 percent of
(21:04):
businesses with their email marketing?
Or like, what, how many people,how common do you think it is
to actually have this sorted?
Well, this is a massive benefitthat smaller businesses and like,
businesses with less channels have.
Because if you think about any brandsthat sell on Amazon or on retail websites
(21:26):
like John Lewis, for example, youcannot connect all those dots, right?
People could be buying your product fromvarious different websites and channels
and you can't truthfully connect thedots and say this is your second purchase
with us because they could have boughtfive times without you being able to
connect that to their email address.
So I do think this is a benefit of ifyou are, you know, solely on Shopify.
(21:51):
hmm.
And you've got Klaviyo set up, all ofyour data is pretty much in one place.
Mm hmm.
And you can use that as to your benefit.
And I also think if you're a smallbusiness, being able to pull in those
things, like "here's a note from ourfounder" is also really powerful.
That the big guys can't do as well.
So, I definitely think those are thingsthat are going to really get you more
(22:13):
revenue, but also keep your customershappier and drive their lifetime value.
Yeah, for sure.
And set yourself apart from justnothing but transactional emails, right?
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So personalization is a bigbuzzword in email marketing, but
how much of it really matters?
What's the best way for small businessesto approach a more personalized email
(22:35):
marketing strategy without overwhelm?
Because it can feel justlike, what does it even mean?
Where do we even start?
I think it does matter, butit can be really practical
and achievable with email.
So as I mentioned, like theintegration between Klaviyo and
Shopify is incredibly powerful.
So nearly everything that yourcustomer is doing on your website
(22:55):
is feeding through to Klaviyo.
Which means that for you to create across sell email, for example, which says,
"Hi, Catherine, you bought this product.We think you'll love this selection
of products below." And like showingsix products will be based on their
kind of browsing and shopping behavioris very achievable and easy to do.
(23:17):
do And remember that the beauty of flowsis that you create that once and it's
there running in the background for you.
You're not literally comingin and going, oh God, right?
What did so and so buy last week?
I need to send 'em a campaign.
It's done, it's set up andit's running in the background.
Yes, you need to kind of checkin on and monitor and hopefully
(23:38):
tweak these flows as you go.
But the kind of the bulk ofthe work is done for you.
And those really help make thatpersonalization achievable.
If you're sending your campaigns and it'sthings like new in or a sale is launching.
No, I don't really think you do needto worry about personalization there.
Those are like timely, as Isaid, keeping you top of mind.
(24:01):
They're talking about a specificthing that's going on at that time.
But the flows, which is where you'vegot more data on people anyway, that's
where it becomes really powerful.
Right, I see.
That's a good distinction to make.
So you don't tie yourself up in knots.
Just think about what, because evento your point, like whether or not
it's their first purchase or theirsecond purchase, that's personalized.
(24:22):
If you're changing the flows, dependingon what their purchase history, then that
is probably more than a lot of people do.
Definitely, and I think it'sthe same as segmentation.
People talk about segmentation a lotand you don't necessarily, if you've
got an email database of less than 10K.
I wouldn't even be thinking aboutsegmentation unless potentially you
(24:44):
were segmenting by email engagement.
Okay, but you don't need to startthinking, right, what version of this
email am I going to send my leads?
Versus am I going to send my existingcustomers on my repeat shoppers?
Build all that kind of strategy andthought into your flows and then get
your campaigns out the door each week.
All the Yeah kind of cleverstuff can happen in the flows.
(25:07):
Yeah, amazing.
So if a small business owner islistening to this and they're
like, okay, Hannah, I'm on it.
I'm going to build apost purchase email flow.
Which one would you recommend and why?
I would start with puttingmy customer hat on.
I would focus on thatcustomer thank you flow.
So really nurturing the customer asthey place an order and making sure when
(25:30):
they get it that they're likely to openit and feel good and start using it.
And then with my commercial haton, I'd look at that kind of cross
sell and second purchase order.
But you can achieve allof that within one flow.
So you could just have a post purchaseflow and build, as I said, this
could be a 30 day flow and you canbuild six steps into it, for example.
(25:52):
So, all of that can happen.
But I would put that in aboveanything like a purchase
anniversary or a birthday flow.
Like I would focus on what happensafter someone places an order with you.
And split it by first timeand repeat, and start there.
Amazing.
I mean, you said to put your customerhat on, but I think sometimes with these
(26:12):
flows, people get a bit overwhelmed.
They get themselves tangled up inlike, "Well, what should the timing
be? And what should I even address?"But I'm guessing, you kind of start
with what do you normally get asked?
What comments do you get?
What do people generally wantto know when they buy from you?
Or how would you kind of go abouteven knowing where to start?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think it is about thinking aboutdefinitely looking at what your
(26:34):
most frequent customer contact is.
Mm.
Like one example that I always hear timeand time again is where is my order?
So if you can talk to that in thatfirst email to say, "Your order is being
packed away beautifully in our lovelygift box and it's on its way to you."
And like checking in at that day whenthey should have received it going, we're
(26:55):
just checking that you did receive it.
If you didn't.
you know, like get in touch with us here.
So I think it is thinking about that.
And yes, it normally email contentcomes from other content on your site.
So for example, when I'm working with anapparel brand, they often have a page on
their website in their footer, which ishow to wash and care for our products.
So what I'm normally doing when I'mworking with a client is saying, "Okay,
(27:18):
you've got this lovely content here.Let's pull this into this email. This
is the perfect time that people willbe looking for that content." Same
with a beauty brand and how to use it.
They've normally got that contenton their product detail page.
So how can we pull that into the emailand just reserve it to the customer in a
convenient way, as in when they need it.
So I think it's about.
(27:39):
The content's normally there.
Same with our sustainabilityand why we do what we do.
The content is on the site.
It's just about pulling it in andpresenting it to the customer and thinking
about what do they need to hear about?
And when through their journey?
I think that's such a great pointbecause I think the temptation can be
to say, well, I don't see the pointof sending them the care instructions
(28:02):
because they are on the website.
But it's like, well, it's a big differencebetween you having to go to the website,
look for something and getting a nicewell timed email in your inbox, where it's
almost like they anticipated your questionbefore you asked it and then you're like,
"Oh, wow, that's helpful." Absolutely.
My advice with emails is normallysee it as a signpost to a website.
(28:26):
So I wouldn't necessarily take all ofthat content and put it into the email.
I would say, we want you to getthe best out of our product.
Here's how to take care of it.
Nice, bold call to action button.
Get them back on the website.
Guess what they're going to doafter they've read the article?
They're probably going to goback and start shopping again.
Hooray, we've done what we wanted to do.
So it's all about kind of getthem back on your website and then
(28:47):
they'll probably start browsingagain once they've read the content.
So you've built that relationship,you've made them feel looked after,
but you've also got them back onyour site and they might shop again.
Amazing.
And that's how you built and that'show you get them from that first
purchase to the second purchase.
Yeah, which is then when you'rethink about your customer lifetime,
values make such a huge difference.
(29:08):
Yeah, it really does.
Amazing.
Well, thank you so much.
I've really enjoyed our conversation.
So if people want to find out more about,about email marketing, about working
with you, where can they find you?
Yeah.
So I send a weekly newsletter,unsurprisingly as an email marketer,
which you can sign up to on mywebsite, which is hspicerconsulting.
(29:29):
com.
And I'm on Instagram@hannahspicer_consulting, and
I'm on LinkedIn @hannahspicer.
Amazing.
And we will link to all of thatin the show notes, but thank
you so much for joining us.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you so much for listening.
Great to have you with us on the podcast.
Why not head over to at Resilient RetailClub on Instagram, say hi, let us know
(29:50):
what you thought about today's episode.
Don't forget to sign up for Retail ROAR.
And of course, if you like, follow orsubscribe the podcast, depending on the
platform that you listen to, you'll bethe first to know about every new episode
that comes out each Thursday morning.
See you next week.
Welcome to the Resilient Retail Game Plan.
(00:02):
Today is Thursday the 20th ofMarch, if you're listening to this
on the day that it is released,in which case it is Retail ROAR.
That is my free online summit for productbusiness owners and independent retailers.
You need to head over toretailroar.co.uk and sign up for your
(00:24):
free space if you haven't done so.
Already you do not want to miss this.
We have the best retail entrepreneursand experts who are sharing their
expertise and it's all completely free.
So if you haven't done so alreadyshoot over to retailroar.co.uk
and get yourself signed up.
If you can't watch live, don't worry.
You'll be able to watch the replays overthe weekend, but you need to be signed up.
So today I'm delighted to welcometo the podcast, Hannah Spicer.
(00:47):
Hannah Spicer is an emailmarketing strategist.
I've known Hannah for many years, andshe's done some incredible work with
really amazing luxury and premium brands.
And she's also super passionateabout the role of email marketing
in retaining customers and buildingyour customer lifetime value.
So we're going to jump straightin with a discussion of how your
(01:08):
email marketing can create not justcustomers, but customers for life.
Welcome to the Resilient Retail GamePlan, a podcast for anyone wanting to
start, grow or scale a profitable creativeproduct business with me, Catherine Erdly.
(01:28):
The Resilient Retail Game Plan isa podcast dedicated to one thing,
breaking down the concepts and toolsthat I've gathered from 20 years in
the retail industry and showing youhow you can use them in your business.
This is the real nuts and bolts ofrunning a successful product business,
broken down in an easy, accessible way.
This is not a podcast about learninghow to make your business look good.
(01:52):
It's the tools and techniques that willmake you and your business feel good.
Confidently plan, launch, and manageyour products, and feel in control of
your sales numbers and cash flow to helpyou build a resilient retail business.
(02:13):
Hannah, welcome to the podcast.
It's so great to have you with us.
Do you want to start us off byintroducing yourself and your business?
Yes.
Thank you so much for having me.
I did corner you at an eventand asked you to have me on.
So thank you for saying yes.
My name is Hannah Spicer.
I've worked in digital marketingand e commerce for over 20 years,
(02:33):
and I now run my own consultancycalled Hannah Spicer Consulting.
And we are focused on helping premiumand luxury brands get the most out
of their email marketing as possible.
Amazing.
And we actually met,I think, pre pandemic.
If is that correct?
Yes.
We did, yeah.
A long time ago, I know.
(02:54):
Because I used to run eveningpanel talks back in the day.
It seems like such a long timeago now, and we met there.
So it's wonderful to have youwith us, because I know you've
worked with quite an overlap.
Lots of my clients have workedwith you and vice versa.
So, it's really great to have you, andI'm excited to delve into today's topic.
Because obviously I know youpredominantly looking at luxury, but
(03:15):
ultimately I think what you focus onis relevant to pretty much everybody
who sells products, would you say?
It really is.
Yeah, absolutely.
So all of the kind of journeys andtactics are relevant for any business.
It's just done in a different way.
But yes, absolutely.
There'll be learnings for everybody,small and big and premium or not.
Amazing.
So we're going to be talking aboutcustomer retention and loyalty, and I
(03:38):
know that you're really passionate aboutemail flows as a way of doing that.
I know that we hear a lot aboutautomated email flows, but for
someone who's not super familiarwith them, can you explain what they
are in a nutshell and why they're sopowerful for e commerce businesses?
Yeah, absolutely.
So there's a few different kinds ofemails that we send to customers.
So let's just cover off the kindof least interesting one first,
(04:02):
which was transactional emails.
So that will be things likeorder confirmation, order
dispatch, return confirmation.
Those emails that tend to go from youre commerce platform, like Shopify,
they're not seen as marketing emails.
They're treated a little bit differently.
Then when we look at marketingemails, we have, if you're using
Klaviyo, I'll use those names.
(04:23):
They're called campaigns or there's flows.
Mm hmm.
So campaigns, which are also sometimesreferred to as newsletters, are
the one off emails that somebodymanually goes in and builds and
writes and creates and sends.
So things like new in, hmm.
best sellers, or a salelaunch, anything like that.
(04:45):
A flow, which is also sometimes calledan automation or a triggered email is
created once, and then it continuallytriggers depending on what a user does.
One example that probably mostpeople will be familiar with
is an abandoned checkout flow.
So we probably all receivethose if we shop online.
Which is, it's triggered by someoneadding an item to their cart and
(05:08):
then not completing the checkout.
Mm hmm.
Ideally, for your retailbusiness, you have both of
these kind of emails in place.
You've got your campaigns on onehand, which are really good at kind of
keeping you top of mind and respondingto things that are going on at that
time, like Valentine's Day or whatever.
And then your flows aretriggering in the background.
(05:30):
And working hard for you andalso driving a lot of revenue.
And the reason why flows are reallyimportant is because by their very nature,
they're much more targeted and relevant.
So they tend to get higheropen click and conversion rates
because they are responding tosomething that the person has done.
So if you think about, if you've got bothof those in place, your email marketing
(05:55):
could be driving anywhere between 30 to 50percent of your total e commerce revenue.
Mm hmm.
And then if you drill down to thosedifferent types, you're probably looking
for like a 50 percent split between flowsand campaigns just to give you an idea.
Okay, that's really interesting.
And I think that's fascinatingthat it carries as high as 50%.
I think I often say like arounda third, it's almost healthy.
(06:18):
It's like around a third.
If it's below that, there's definitelymoney you're leaving on the table
for e commerce from email marketing.
But interesting.
So you would say you would expect tosee a 50-50 split between flows and
newsletters or flows and campaigns?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, interesting.
And this is a bit of a side note, but Iwas just curious about your take on it.
Cause you mentioned transactional emailsand I know there's sort of like the, you
(06:41):
know, like a sort of poor relation asit were sometimes in email marketing.
Or it's like we think about justtransactional emails, but I'm
just curious, cause obviouslyyou're working in luxury where
it's all about brand experience.
It's all about that.
Do you presumably wouldtake a look at even those?
Because sometimes I get, obviously mostof the time you just get like a really
bog standard, like your orders on its way.
(07:03):
But then sometimes I do getan, a transactional email.
That's actually quite sort ofquirky or it's fun or it's in
a very specific brand tone.
Do you think that they can be anopportunity to do a bit of brand building?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think you want to kind of takea look at the design of them and
as much as possible, keep themconsistent with your marketing emails.
(07:24):
And yeah, absolutely bring inyour tone of voice and make them
feel a bit more fun or engaging.
Or whatever your brand values arebecause they are still really important
and they will be very highly opened.
So yes, if you can bring in that nicecopy and tone of voice and design and
overall look feel then, then definitely.
Yeah, fantastic.
(07:45):
Okay, so thank you so much for that.
It's a really clear distinction then.
You've got your campaigns, you've gotyour flows, and they should be about
50-50, which is really fascinating.
I'm sure a lot of people listeningare probably going to go away and
check and see where they're at.
But I'd love to just touch on kind ofthe purpose of some of those automated
flows because a lot of brands arefocusing on getting new customers,
but keeping them coming back isthe real challenge in a way, right?
(08:08):
You know, that's how you buildprofitably because you're not
constantly trying to get newness in.
But what are some of the beststrategies that you would
recommend for driving retentionusing those post purchase emails?
I totally agree.
I think there is a big focus onwelcome flows, abandoned checkout,
abandoned browse flows , and rightly so.
(08:28):
Those are really important.
And I typically do see those flowsdriving, they're normally the top
three performers in terms of revenue.
But obviously abandoned checkoutand abandoned browse will be going
to your existing customers too.
What I think is neglected a lot of thetime is what happens after the purchase.
So again, there's like a wholesuite of flows that we can think
(08:50):
about in this space as well.
If you think about how much moneyand time and effort it costs now to
acquire a new customer is much morechallenging than it was during COVID.
We really want to make sure that we'regetting the most value out of those
customers in terms of repeat purchaseand building that lifetime value.
I think there's things like win backflows, there's anniversary flows.
(09:13):
But I think the most importantflow is a post purchase flow.
And that's got quite a lot of differenttactics and strategies built into it.
And it can be as long as,a month or even longer.
It's really kind of taking yourcustomers on quite a considered journey
once they place an order with you.
So if we talk a bit throughwhat that could look like.
(09:35):
Yeah.
So obviously the day that they placean order with you, they're going to
get their order confirmation email.
I would recommend a day after that,starting to follow up and making them
feel good about their purchase whilethey're sitting at home waiting for it.
So it's almost like creatingthe opposite of buyer's remorse.
So how can I make them feel good thatthey've spent their money with me?
(09:58):
In that moment where they mightthink, "Oh, I don't know if I
should have spent that money."And this is really about a kind of
brand building, storytelling email.
So it could be a note from thefounder, if you're a small business.
It could be a reminder of how andwhy and where you make your products.
You know, you can even say like,we are busy creating or wrapping
your item while you're waiting.
(10:20):
Here's a reminder of our values.
And like, you can talkabout your sustainability.
Or what your mission is, likehow your products are different.
It's all about kind of makingthem feel good about that order.
So not really a commercial one.
It's really about kind ofbuilding that relationship.
I'd also then recommend triggeringan email about the time that you
expect them to receive that item.
(10:41):
And then it's about kind of makingthem feel inspired and educated
and confident to start using it.
Also, kind of touching in tosee if there's any issues or
questions and also I think socialmedia can come in here as well.
So kind of.
trying to engage them to postthat wonderful unboxing moment
and start to kind of engagewith you on socials as well.
(11:04):
But if you've got something like abeauty or a supplement brand, it's giving
them the information they need to startusing the product, like how to actually
use it and get the most out of it.
If it's something like clothing orhomeware, it might be more how to
style it or how to clean it so theyfeel confident to start wearing it
or putting it out in their house.
(11:25):
If it's food and drink,recipe inspiration, right?
How do you immediately get someoneexcited to start using your product?
Yeah, that's really interesting.
I just recently bought somevery silly running socks.
Which I got loads of ads for on Instagramand then eventually I bought them.
They got unicorns onthem They say stay magic.
Anyway, I was like, I'mdoing a lot of running.
(11:46):
I can have some fun socks.
And you're absolutely right.
I did get an email from themsaying how to wash them.
Which is actually super useful, right?
Because the last thing you want to dois get a new item, then accidentally
shrink it in the washing machine.
Totally.
Yeah, I think it's really clever.
And I think I'd got a new supplementthat I'd started using and there was
all the different ways you kind ofbring it into your daily routine.
(12:07):
Like you can add it to your tea,you can add it to some porridge.
You can add it to like, it's justmaking it really easy and making
people start using the product.
Because if they don't start usingit, they're not going to review it
and they're definitely not goingto come back and buy it again.
So it's kind of making sure it doesn'tget left on the shelf, but they're
actually bringing it into their lifestyle.
Yeah, yeah.
I love that.
Have you actually seen that interms of when you work with clients?
(12:28):
That you've seen an uptake in returncustomers there when you implement
something like this to get themactually using it and engaging?
Do you see actual engagement andpeople interacting on social media?
Like what kind of impact does it have?
Yeah, we definitely, I'm kindof focusing on the metrics
on the email side of things.
And I see really high opens andclicks in this time of like nurturing
(12:52):
a customer once they've boughtwith you to start getting used to
the product, feeling confident,and kind of checking in with them.
And I don't think it's one email.
I think it's about continuing to do that.
And especially again, if it's kindof a supplement or a beauty or
a skincare piece, there's a lotof space to kind of continue to
do that as they go on using it.
(13:12):
I worked with a supplement brandwho, it's a collagen brand.
So you wouldn't really see theresults until you've been taking
it for about a month, right?
So you actually have to nurture themfor a month to keep taking it before
you can even start to say, "okay, noware you seeing any results? Like, can
you give me feedback?" and that'sanother thing that we should be thinking
(13:33):
about on this post purchase journey is.
Asking them for feedback and reviews.
We obviously know the powerof user generated content.
So making sure that that issomewhere in the journey as well.
Um, And then I think just as we talkedabout, like driving that repeat purchase,
it's really important to come back andthen cross sell and upsell to them.
(13:54):
So you can do that with like personalizedproduct recommendations, which If
you're using Klaviyo, you can buildwithin the template really easily.
Um, you can do it with newness.
If you have quite regular productdrops, you can bring people back.
That's a really popular kindof, um, driver for people
to come back to your site.
And you can also do it with replenishment.
(14:14):
If you've got a replenish, replenishableproduct, that's another way to do it.
And then finally, one thing I thinkthat people miss, because we're talking
specifically around trying to get someonefrom a one time to a repeat customer.
What you can do is if they haven'tbought with you again, and you've
tried a lot of this content andtactics and kind of cross selling, you
(14:35):
can then target them with a unique,limited time second purchase offer.
And you can allude to that and say,"Hey, we'd love for you to add to
your collection as a valued customer.
Here's 10 percent off if you useit within five days." like drive
that sense of urgency, make themlike understand why they're getting
(14:55):
the often that it's limited time.
And it's really targeted to try andget them to get that second purchase.
Once they do, they're so muchmore likely for that third,
fourth, fifth purchase to happen.
Mmm, yeah.
It's worth doing.
Yeah.
Well, actually, I wanted to ask youthat because I presume when you're
talking about this post purchase flowthat you set up, this is very much
(15:15):
for somebody who's bought for thefirst time, but do you suggest that
there's something for people who boughtfor the second time or the third?
Yeah, I do.
Yeah, so I normally split that flow out.
You can create, not to get tootechnical, but you can create
split paths within a flow.
So I would still be asking them forfeedback because they might be trying
a different product and they stillwant to feel looked after and nurtured.
(15:38):
And you can do things like, when it's afirst time purchase, you can say, "Thanks
for shopping with us for the first time.We so appreciate you taking this leap."
If it's a second time purchase,you can say, thank you so much
for shopping with us again.
We really appreciate your loyalty,like make it super relevant.
You could even do another split path forsomeone where it's their fourth plus order
and say, "Oh my gosh, we are so gratefulthat you're continuing to shop with us."
(16:01):
That we so appreciate yourloyalty, like try and make them
really targeted and relevant.
But yes, absolutely.
You can still take those peopleon a post purchase journey.
You just probably don't want to have thatoffer at the end of it every time because
you want to drive full price purchases.
It's easy to underestimate howmuch that means to customers.
Yeah, it's really interesting.
(16:22):
I was interviewingsomebody for Retail ROAR.
That I'm a customer of theirs, and Iwas saying that, Oh yeah, you've got
that secret website you send out topeople once they've bought from you.
And he said, "Oh, actually you onlyget, you've got to jump through a few
more hoops. It's not just if you buyfrom us once." And I was so delighted.
(16:43):
Yeah.
Yeah, I went and told my family, I waslike, remember that secret website?
Apparently not everybody gets that.
And it's like, it's so funnybecause we often think about
selling to people as like, "Oh mygoodness, we can't be too pushy."
But like, I was absolutely delighted thatI'd had access to something that was only
for people who bought more than once.
And I do think that itmeans a lot to people.
(17:04):
And I often say this to clients, it'slike, you can't underestimate how
much people really appreciate yousaying, thanks for coming back again.
Because I've had it where I've bought froma brand, say two, three, even four times.
And I get the same email each timesaying, "Thanks so much for supporting
us, this is about our brand." And ofcourse I get, it can be a lot to set up,
but there's a little bit of me that'skind of like, Oh, but I know, cause I've
(17:25):
bought from you before and if it saidlike, thanks for coming back, I would
have been so delighted people noticed.
That's it.
It's about, I totally agree.
It's about making people feellike recognized and rewarded.
If we liken it back to when we all wentto our local grocers or whatever on
the high street and you'd walk in, ifthey didn't say like, "Hi, Catherine,"
(17:47):
you'd be like, " Excuse me?" Like it'sabout that it's a relationship and it
should take nurturing and recognition.
And little, little things like that aresaying: thanks for coming back again.
Makes a big difference.
Yeah, for sure.
On a purely practical note, if you'vegot somebody who's in a nurture sequence
that's say, a month long, would youhold them out of your newsletter or
(18:11):
campaigns while they're getting that?
Or do you think as long as you're notsending too many emails, it's okay?
Oh, it's such a good question.
I think it is different for the brand.
It does depend on how manycampaigns you're sending and
how long that sequence is.
Brands that are a bit more establishedand have more data tend to close those
(18:32):
journeys in because they are very clearon okay, there's typically 30 days between
someone's first and second purchase.
So we are going to take them on thisconsidered journey and we don't want any
other noise happening at the same time.
I think probably for smaller businesseswho maybe aren't sending as many
campaigns and maybe don't have as strongdata on what that looks like, feel
(18:56):
free to kind of keep everything going.
You'll still have like a cap on howmany emails people could get in one day.
So yeah, it does depend alittle bit on the business.
Mm hmm.
Okay, so it's something to thinkabout, but unless you're somebody
who's sending multiple emails aday, then you're probably fine.
Yeah it's, yeah.
(19:16):
Campaigns can be so powerful at kindof keeping you top of mind and kind
of planting, making sure that yourbrand is in the customer's head.
And then your flow campaigncan be really targeted.
It's like, "Hi, Catherine, youhaven't made a second purchase yet.
Here's 10 percent off." "Oh mygosh, of course." So I think
they've both got a part to play.
(19:37):
Yeah, for sure.
So what is a common mistake that you seebrands making with their post purchase
emails and how can they fix that?
Yeah, so I think there's twoof the most common I see.
So one is the timing actually.
So I sometimes see brands have gotlike a thank you sequence, but they're
trying to cross out to somebody theday after they place their first order.
(20:00):
I actually had this with a brandrecently, a eyelash serum brand.
And I ordered it and I immediatelygot an offer on my next purchase.
And I was like, "Oh my gosh, why would Iorder another one yet? I've got no idea if
this works or not. I haven't even receivedit and tried it." So I think think about
the timing and also some people will askfor a review at the wrong time as well.
(20:21):
As I said, you've really got tothink about that when they've had
the chance to actually use yourproduct and they can feedback.
And then I think the other mostcommon mistake is that people don't
do this kind of nurturing part of it.
So they're like very focusedon the products and trying
to get you to shop again.
But they don't think about content andbrand building and asking for feedback
(20:42):
and creating that trust and relationship.
Rather than just trying tosell, sell, sell to them again.
So those are the two,like timing and content.
And what percentage?
I'm just always curious cause youknow, we're probably all shopped
with even bigger brands thatdon't really do this super well.
But if you were to do this, do youthink you'd be in the top 50 percent of
(21:04):
businesses with their email marketing?
Or like, what, how many people,how common do you think it is
to actually have this sorted?
Well, this is a massive benefitthat smaller businesses and like,
businesses with less channels have.
Because if you think about any brandsthat sell on Amazon or on retail websites
(21:26):
like John Lewis, for example, youcannot connect all those dots, right?
People could be buying your product fromvarious different websites and channels
and you can't truthfully connect thedots and say this is your second purchase
with us because they could have boughtfive times without you being able to
connect that to their email address.
So I do think this is a benefit of ifyou are, you know, solely on Shopify.
(21:51):
hmm.
And you've got Klaviyo set up, all ofyour data is pretty much in one place.
Mm hmm.
And you can use that as to your benefit.
And I also think if you're a smallbusiness, being able to pull in those
things, like "here's a note from ourfounder" is also really powerful.
That the big guys can't do as well.
So, I definitely think those are thingsthat are going to really get you more
(22:13):
revenue, but also keep your customershappier and drive their lifetime value.
Yeah, for sure.
And set yourself apart from justnothing but transactional emails, right?
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So personalization is a bigbuzzword in email marketing, but
how much of it really matters?
What's the best way for small businessesto approach a more personalized email
(22:35):
marketing strategy without overwhelm?
Because it can feel justlike, what does it even mean?
Where do we even start?
I think it does matter, butit can be really practical
and achievable with email.
So as I mentioned, like theintegration between Klaviyo and
Shopify is incredibly powerful.
So nearly everything that yourcustomer is doing on your website
(22:55):
is feeding through to Klaviyo.
Which means that for you to create across sell email, for example, which says,
"Hi, Catherine, you bought this product.We think you'll love this selection
of products below." And like showingsix products will be based on their
kind of browsing and shopping behavioris very achievable and easy to do.
(23:17):
do And remember that the beauty of flowsis that you create that once and it's
there running in the background for you.
You're not literally comingin and going, oh God, right?
What did so and so buy last week?
I need to send 'em a campaign.
It's done, it's set up andit's running in the background.
Yes, you need to kind of checkin on and monitor and hopefully
(23:38):
tweak these flows as you go.
But the kind of the bulk ofthe work is done for you.
And those really help make thatpersonalization achievable.
If you're sending your campaigns and it'sthings like new in or a sale is launching.
No, I don't really think you do needto worry about personalization there.
Those are like timely, as Isaid, keeping you top of mind.
(24:01):
They're talking about a specificthing that's going on at that time.
But the flows, which is where you'vegot more data on people anyway, that's
where it becomes really powerful.
Right, I see.
That's a good distinction to make.
So you don't tie yourself up in knots.
Just think about what, because evento your point, like whether or not
it's their first purchase or theirsecond purchase, that's personalized.
(24:22):
If you're changing the flows, dependingon what their purchase history, then that
is probably more than a lot of people do.
Definitely, and I think it'sthe same as segmentation.
People talk about segmentation a lotand you don't necessarily, if you've
got an email database of less than 10K.
I wouldn't even be thinking aboutsegmentation unless potentially you
(24:44):
were segmenting by email engagement.
Okay, but you don't need to startthinking, right, what version of this
email am I going to send my leads?
Versus am I going to send my existingcustomers on my repeat shoppers?
Build all that kind of strategy andthought into your flows and then get
your campaigns out the door each week.
All the Yeah kind of cleverstuff can happen in the flows.
(25:07):
Yeah, amazing.
So if a small business owner islistening to this and they're
like, okay, Hannah, I'm on it.
I'm going to build apost purchase email flow.
Which one would you recommend and why?
I would start with puttingmy customer hat on.
I would focus on thatcustomer thank you flow.
So really nurturing the customer asthey place an order and making sure when
(25:30):
they get it that they're likely to openit and feel good and start using it.
And then with my commercial haton, I'd look at that kind of cross
sell and second purchase order.
But you can achieve allof that within one flow.
So you could just have a post purchaseflow and build, as I said, this
could be a 30 day flow and you canbuild six steps into it, for example.
(25:52):
So, all of that can happen.
But I would put that in aboveanything like a purchase
anniversary or a birthday flow.
Like I would focus on what happensafter someone places an order with you.
And split it by first timeand repeat, and start there.
Amazing.
I mean, you said to put your customerhat on, but I think sometimes with these
(26:12):
flows, people get a bit overwhelmed.
They get themselves tangled up inlike, "Well, what should the timing
be? And what should I even address?"But I'm guessing, you kind of start
with what do you normally get asked?
What comments do you get?
What do people generally wantto know when they buy from you?
Or how would you kind of go abouteven knowing where to start?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think it is about thinking aboutdefinitely looking at what your
(26:34):
most frequent customer contact is.
Mm.
Like one example that I always hear timeand time again is where is my order?
So if you can talk to that in thatfirst email to say, "Your order is being
packed away beautifully in our lovelygift box and it's on its way to you."
And like checking in at that day whenthey should have received it going, we're
(26:55):
just checking that you did receive it.
If you didn't.
you know, like get in touch with us here.
So I think it is thinking about that.
And yes, it normally email contentcomes from other content on your site.
So for example, when I'm working with anapparel brand, they often have a page on
their website in their footer, which ishow to wash and care for our products.
So what I'm normally doing when I'mworking with a client is saying, "Okay,
(27:18):
you've got this lovely content here.Let's pull this into this email. This
is the perfect time that people willbe looking for that content." Same
with a beauty brand and how to use it.
They've normally got that contenton their product detail page.
So how can we pull that into the emailand just reserve it to the customer in a
convenient way, as in when they need it.
So I think it's about.
(27:39):
The content's normally there.
Same with our sustainabilityand why we do what we do.
The content is on the site.
It's just about pulling it in andpresenting it to the customer and thinking
about what do they need to hear about?
And when through their journey?
I think that's such a great pointbecause I think the temptation can be
to say, well, I don't see the pointof sending them the care instructions
(28:02):
because they are on the website.
But it's like, well, it's a big differencebetween you having to go to the website,
look for something and getting a nicewell timed email in your inbox, where it's
almost like they anticipated your questionbefore you asked it and then you're like,
"Oh, wow, that's helpful." Absolutely.
My advice with emails is normallysee it as a signpost to a website.
(28:26):
So I wouldn't necessarily take all ofthat content and put it into the email.
I would say, we want you to getthe best out of our product.
Here's how to take care of it.
Nice, bold call to action button.
Get them back on the website.
Guess what they're going to doafter they've read the article?
They're probably going to goback and start shopping again.
Hooray, we've done what we wanted to do.
So it's all about kind of getthem back on your website and then
(28:47):
they'll probably start browsingagain once they've read the content.
So you've built that relationship,you've made them feel looked after,
but you've also got them back onyour site and they might shop again.
Amazing.
And that's how you built and that'show you get them from that first
purchase to the second purchase.
Yeah, which is then when you'rethink about your customer lifetime,
values make such a huge difference.
(29:08):
Yeah, it really does.
Amazing.
Well, thank you so much.
I've really enjoyed our conversation.
So if people want to find out more about,about email marketing, about working
with you, where can they find you?
Yeah.
So I send a weekly newsletter,unsurprisingly as an email marketer,
which you can sign up to on mywebsite, which is hspicerconsulting.
(29:29):
com.
And I'm on Instagram@hannahspicer_consulting, and
I'm on LinkedIn @hannahspicer.
Amazing.
And we will link to all of thatin the show notes, but thank
you so much for joining us.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you so much for listening.
Great to have you with us on the podcast.
Why not head over to at Resilient RetailClub on Instagram, say hi, let us know
(29:50):
what you thought about today's episode.
Don't forget to sign up for Retail ROAR.
And of course, if you like, follow orsubscribe the podcast, depending on the
platform that you listen to, you'll bethe first to know about every new episode
that comes out each Thursday morning.
See you next week.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!