April 17, 2025 • 25 mins
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Thinking about using TikTok for your retail business, but unsure where to start—or if it's worth your time? In this week's episode, I talk to Penny Walker, TikTok strategist and founder of BarBrusa Social, about how to get started (or smarter) on the app.
She breaks down how TikTok’s search features are transforming how people shop, why you don’t need to dance or go viral to succeed, and how to build a strategy that actually drives sales.
What’s Inside:
[00:00] Why TikTok still matters for retailers in 2025
[01:25] Meet Penny Walker: TikTok trainer & content strategist at BarBrusa Social
[01:56] What’s trending now (and how to reuse old trends)
[04:54] TikTok is now a search engine—here’s how to use it
[09:41] How realistic is it for small businesses to drive sales directly through the TikTok app?
[15:08] Real-world retail TikTok success stories
[17:15] What type of content is working on TikTok?
[20:23] Where to start: Penny’s step-by-step intro TikTok strategy
[24:04] Connect with Penny
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
TikTok, this is one of the socialmedia platforms that many people have
a bit of a love-hate relationship with.
It's fast moving.
There's still great opportunitiesfor organic growth, but it can be a
very demanding platform and for manypeople they may be wondering how
best to use it for their business.
If that's you, then thisis the perfect episode.
I am joined by PennyWalker of BarBrusa Social.
(00:22):
Who's gonna be talking all things TikTok.
Welcome to the Resilient RetailGame Plan, a podcast for anyone
wanting to start, grow, or scale aprofitable creative product business.
With me, Catherine Erdly the ResilientRetail Game Plan is a podcast dedicated
(00:44):
to one thing, breaking down theconcepts and tools that I've gathered
from 20 years in the retail industry.
And showing you how you canuse them in your business.
This is the real nuts and bolts ofrunning a successful product business
broken down in an easy, accessible way.
This is not a podcast about learninghow to make your business look good.
(01:04):
It's the tools and techniquesthat will make you and your
business feel good confidently.
Plan, launch, and manage your productsand feel in control of your sales
numbers and cash flow to help youbuild a resilient retail business.
(01:25):
Penny, welcome back to the podcast.
Thank you so much for joining us again.
Do you want to kick us off by tellingeveryone who you are and what you do?
Yeah.
Hi there.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm Penny.
I'm the founder of BarBrusa Socialand I'm a TikTok trainer, and I
also create content for brands.
So I generally help people whoare established on Instagram
to get started on TikTok.
(01:47):
Amazing.
And we're gonna delve into allthings TikTok, what's going on
right now, what the trends are,who's doing well and so much more.
So I can't wait to get started.
So yeah, let's talk about trends then.
Tiktoks known as being a trend-basedplatform, but what are we seeing
now at the moment in terms of trendscompared to maybe the sort of trends
that we used to see dominating?
Yeah, so there definitely are some bigtrends that I'll talk about in a moment.
(02:09):
But I do think there's a shiftaway from your content being
trend driven, that it certainlyused to be probably back in 2020.
And I think there's a lot more space nowas it becomes more of an SEO platform.
Mm.
For sort of authentic evergreen contentabout your business and your brand.
But there are some brillianttrends going round.
(02:30):
One that I loved at the moment is Idunno if you've seen it, she didn't
know it yet, but in five minutes.
That's quite a good one becauseit's really, you can really use
it for your brand or business.
You could use it to have fun or youcould use it for a more serious message.
So some of the ones I like are I left mycorporate job and started my own business.
And that's that's just a reallynice way to see behind the scenes.
(02:50):
So it's a trend, but you are alsomaking it relevant to your business.
There's the anxiety one that Iwould quite frankly, smack in the
face if I saw it, because I'm sosick of hearing it everywhere.
It's just the anxiety, but it's been fun.
And the, the dancing one was good.
And then I also say to my studentslike, go back and look at the old
trends because a lot of those werereally good in the first place.
(03:11):
If you have a big launch comingup, you can really dig into
those old ones that worked justto reuse them for your business.
Now, like nobody wants to see anxietythis week or next week, but if you
do it again in six months becauseyou have a launch coming up and it's
relevant, you can really make it work.
And then a good example of thatone is do you remember the trend?
If you asked me how I am,I'd tell you I'm okay.
(03:34):
But if you asked me on a deeper level.
Yes.
And you see it performingconsistently well all the time.
So there's lots of trends like thatwere good a year ago, two years ago,
that you could go and dig out again.
And I see big brands doing thatin their launches, so I love that.
However, I did see someone say theother day that TikTok feels like Open
University these days 'cause everyone'slike sharing longer videos, but I think
(03:57):
it's because they introduced a STEM feed.
So there's quite a lot oflearning content as well.
But really you don't have to do trends.
You can do trends.
There's plenty of trends.
If that's what you are into and youcan make it relevant for your business,
if you don't like them and it doesn'tsuit you, you do not have to bother.
Yeah.
It's one of those things thatpeople, I still hear people
say sometimes about TikTok.
They're like, oh, Idon't wanna be in TikTok.
(04:18):
I don't wanna be dancing around.
And I'm like, I think we'reway past that these days.
I don't even think you were doing thatin 20, like some people were, but I
think as a, as your business feed.
You are only gonna see stuffthat's relevant to you.
If you go and look, canyour teenagers feed it?
There's still lots of dancing there is on.
I love it.
I've danced on TikTok.
It's fun, like you're meantto have fun that's not you,
(04:40):
and it's not what you want.
You can be perfectly successfulwithout going near any of that stuff.
You touched there on how it's evolved.
It's an, it certainly is a lot ofentertainment on there, but it's not
just an entertainment app anymore.
So you touched on SEO.
Can you talk us a little bit more abouthow you might use TikTok as an SEO tool?
(05:01):
Yeah, so I absolutely think that TikTok isquite misunderstood as being just a social
media platform, which it isn't at all.
It's a massive search engine.
And in fact, I'd say that the GenZs and increasingly millennials are
using TikTok to look for information,to search for information about
your holiday, where to go out fordinner, where to buy what you love.
So it's super powerful.
(05:22):
And what does that do for your business?
It makes your business discoverable,so being able to use it correctly
means that when people are puttingsearch terms into TikTok, they can come
across your business or your product.
So you can't ignore it.
It's there, it's happening.
So what I would say isdo a bit of research.
If you go in the search bar above the,when you when you are in the feeds,
you'll see there's a search bar.
(05:43):
You can just type in what you do, whetherit's engagement rings or dog leads.
Just go and have a look and seewhat times people are using.
But it's brilliant because that meansyour content has a really long shelf life.
That's of evergreen content whereyou've bothered with the SEO means your
business can be discovered, for a videoyou might have done two years ago.
So it might be that video is explodingor going viral in the moment, but
(06:05):
it's a useful video for your business.
And you'll see that in the analyticsthat goes from FYP, which is the main
feed where you are delivered thingsyou're most interested in to, to search.
You wanna be on the FYP when you posta video, but after a period of time,
you'll no longer be on it, you'll beon the search 'cause people are looking
for your video using search terms.
(06:25):
Yeah, it was, it'sfascinating, this topic.
I find it really interesting.
So I just back from San Diego, aswe were talking about earlier and
social media marketing world, therewas somebody called Melissa Lori, and
she did a talk about SEO for TikTok.
And it was really, eyeopening wasn'tjust to be fair, it wasn't just
TikTok, it was Instagram as well.
And I think she did a side by sidecomparison of a Google search for best
(06:49):
hotel in Paris versus TikTok search.
And on the Google search, you've gottascroll past all the sponsor posts and then
you've gotta find a post that looks likeit might have some interesting content,
but that's probably all sponsored too.
And you click it and then you'rescrolling down, you might get one
picture of the hotel and it's allvery, it like takes a long time.
And then they went into TikTok andsaid, best hotel's in Paris and
(07:10):
you've got like a hundred videos andthe person's in the room and they're
showing you the view and it's all veryimmediate and I really was fascinating.
She said that apparently Google'sshare of search dropped below
90% this year for the first time.
And it's because of peoplesearching in TikTok.
I mean, It's brilliant.
You can go so niche, and I think that'sthe lovely thing about it as well.
(07:31):
You're seeing videos that creatorshave made, so the person who's telling
you 10 things to do when you've onlygot two days in Paris, you'll see
too that it's absolutely brilliant.
The other thing that you find isactually your TikTok videos do land in
Google as well, so I can find my owncontent when I'm being really nosy.
And I'm on Google as well,which is quite good to know.
Yeah, we such a, I think this is such ahuge area and I think for me it was a real
(07:54):
light bulb moment because I have heardit said before, but it was just seeing
it like that and then also understandingthen actually if you go through and
say what are people searching for?
I'm gonna make a video on this.
One a week, something like that.
Look up the most commonly askedquestions, or like you say, when you
start typing it in you and it fillsit in what people are searching for.
Like you say, engagementrings what should they
(08:16):
Yeah, so you can go into the Creatorsearch Insights, which is a whole
big other topic, but if you type inCreator Search Insights, TikTok will
literally tell you what people areasking for information about in your
research, different for everybody.
And there's also a content gap as well.
So where is there a lack ofcontent about a certain subject?
It might not all be relevant to you.
(08:36):
But as TikTok understands you a bitmore, especially if you're on a strong
niche, it will be really relevant.
So that's a great wayto do content as well.
Oh, that's fabulous.
And I think for a lot of people,probably as well, I would imagine
that's a much easier thing to get yourhead around to go okay, I need to make
content that people can search on.
So let's go ahead and create thatcontent that answers the question rather
(08:57):
than, it's almost can be overwhelmingwhen you're like, where do I start?
Where do we, what do we even talk about?
What do.
You to do that's a great place to start
Yeah,
at.
Big test anyway, isn't it?
So is that working for you?
But it's nice.
It's nice to be told what to create.
Yeah.
No, I think it's exciting.
I think this, it is really excitingfor a lot of business owners.
(09:17):
'cause again, you could be supercreative and also showcase your
products really nicely as well, right?
If you're answering people's questions,you can actually show how your product.
Does whatever they'vegot a question about.
Yeah let's talk a littlebit then about actual sales.
'cause as we know, everything, all of thisis great, but it is gotta lead to sales.
We've got in-app shoppingnow and TikTok, right?
And three click checkouts.
(09:39):
So can you talk us through alittle bit about what that means?
And then also how realistic is itfor small businesses to drive sales
directly through the TikTok app?
Yeah, so I think businesses areusing TikTok different ways.
The three click makes it so easy to buyanything, but obviously that's, that's
a lot of energy from your business youneed to put into having a TikTok shop.
So there's two thingsthat people are doing.
(10:00):
One is being a TikTok seller,which means you upload a catalog
rather, like you would in Facebookand you sell your products.
Brands are getting round the disparityin price on your website or on your
Shopify by perhaps selling bundlesinstead, or slightly different product
to what you can find on the website.
Otherwise, the prices are a bit messyand that can be a bit inconsistent.
(10:22):
The other thing that a lotof people are doing is.
Actually having creator shops.
So rather than selling their ownproducts, they're selling complimentary
products to their business.
So that could be are you a flower store?
Maybe you are selling other people'ssoil or seeds or something like that.
Are you an artist?
You might be selling paintbrushes and thenyou'd be taking 10% commission on those
(10:44):
sales rather than selling your own thing.
So in a way, sometimes that'smore popular than selling.
So when you look at people who haveTikTok shops, you can take a soft
approach, go I'm gonna set up a catalog.
I'm gonna be able to link theseproducts easily to my video.
So three clicks from my videowith the link in to buying it.
Done.
But you have to invest a little bitof time in it because you could do
(11:06):
lives, you could sell in your lives.
So if something, if thatcomes to you naturally, that's
a great one to do as well.
TikTok recommends that you haveseveral things in your catalog, so
if you only sell one thing, maybethat's not gonna work for you so well.
And then you see there's huge brandslike The Ordinary or what's the, is
it Free Soul Who sell the protein?
Yes.
They've partnered with TikTok andthen they just do these massive sales,
(11:29):
so they're giving free samples out.
I got free samples from FreeSoul to make videos about it.
That's right for my network.
But as a brand as a small business, itmight be that there's creators who are
absolutely brilliant and have just theright audience to sell your product.
Two, and they'll take a 10%commission, but you might get
(11:50):
loads and loads of sales out of it.
So there's lots ofdifferent ways to work it.
Having said that, many people just push totheir link in bio and don't use the shop
because it feels like a lot to organize.
So you don't have todo it, have a go at it.
I think the people who are doing bestare the ones who really push it and
go all in and go we are gonna do this.
We're gonna give it two monthswhere we're behind all of the sales.
(12:13):
So lots of different ways to do it.
It's a big subject, but thething is buying things on
TikTok is so easy and addictive.
You can see the origin as well.
If things are made in China or ifthey're British brands, it would
love, it'd be lovely to know abit more about the British brands.
If someone wanted to lead thatrevolution, that would be great.
But yeah, definitely worth investigating.
(12:34):
But obviously you've gotta takeit seriously and set a bit of time
aside in your business to do it.
So if I am correct then from, basedon what you've said, so you can have
your link in bio, which just will takethem off platform and on into your
shop, which presumably we all knowthat the apps like you to stay in,
in the app, so that's less popular.
You can have your TikTok shop, whichis set up directly to your catalog.
(12:57):
Definitely has a Shopify integration andpresumably the other platforms as well.
And then you've also got this option whereyou've got creators selling your products.
I think this is really, I'm veryinterested in this phenomenon because
I think what we're seeing is thatpeople are overall wanting to give less
money directly to the platforms foradvertising, but they're happier to give
(13:21):
say, 10% to the creator for selling.
Because ultimately what's great aboutthat is, is that you are only going
to pay that 10% if you've made a sale.
So it's not like an ad whereyou have to plow the money
in and then see what happens.
You're literally like, okay,you sold it, you get 10%.
Which, for most people,10 percent's workable.
Especially when youthink about commissions.
(13:42):
You might pay another platform.
No, absolutely.
And there's some fantastic sellers outthere as well who really are niche.
So if you're selling things for momsand toddlers, for example, you can
imagine there's some just brilliantmoms out there selling this or their
toddlers or aunt pets fashion, all sorts.
But also TikTok will send you, Ialways get offers of free samples.
Then I have to make avideo within two weeks.
(14:03):
But obviously I try not to do it too muchpersonally just because it's not really
where I'm making money for my business.
But I think if you were,
There's lots of possibilities in there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's, I think it's fascinating.
And I suppose the probably the biggestissue that a lot of people have, and
I know a question that comes up a lotis like, how do you find the peop the
right people, the right niche people?
(14:24):
Yeah, so you can be matchedin the creator marketplace.
So TikTok will actually recommendpeople to you based on they're not
necessarily creators with big followings.
Just the right followings.
Yeah, because this is all about the nicheand the fit rather than the size, right?
Yeah.
Okay so definitelysomething to delve into.
But you said the people you thinkare doing it best then are the ones
(14:45):
that are really leaning into it.
Yeah, they're going all in.
Yeah, I think it's hardto do it on a small scale.
Gotta set, do a lot of setup justto sell a few things here and
there, or just your one product.
Maybe it's something that I wouldrecommend setting up and having a go
with a view to selling more at Christmas.
Yeah.
(15:05):
So a good time to get startednow and dip your toe in.
So who are some good good examplesright now that in small and
independent brands can learn from?
Yeah.
Gosh, there's so many andeveryone sees different ones.
And it amazes me how manyI haven't discovered.
Then you're like, oh, whydidn't I know about them?
There's one, there's one ladythat I absolutely love called
(15:25):
made with Mud, and she's a potter.
And she doesn't sell on TikTok.
She sells on off platform.
But what she does is dolots and lots of lives.
So she'll do live almost everyday where she's making her
wares, but also just talking.
So lots of people can, she's built upa really loyal following like this.
(15:46):
She's been on the TikTok Smallcreators newsletter as well with
big sort of banners around town.
She's done absolutely amazingly,but I love that approach.
So it's, you could run yourbusiness through lives.
That's one way of doing it.
Another brand that Ilove is Partner in Wine.
Do you?
Yeah.
Lucy Hitchcock.
absolutely.
I think she's just brilliant andI love, I love about what she does
(16:08):
is how she just talks about thewhole product development story.
So it's by the time she comes to launchingsomething, you are wrapped up in it.
You just want to buy it immediately.
And I think that's very I thinkshe probably does the same content
on Instagram and on TikTok, but Ilove that about TikTok, where often
it's more about sharing the story,sharing the development, and what
(16:28):
you are learning along the way.
Then actually look at this nicething I've got in blue and green.
Would you like one?
So I think she's about thatcreating a lot of momentum.
Another brand that I likeis Cots World's Tablescape.
So she sells block printedtablecloths and things like that.
What I love about what she does,it's a very small account, but she
does it on Instagram and TikTok.
It's a great example of having avery aesthetic brand where your
(16:53):
videos are beautiful, your productis beautiful, and therefore they're
just gonna do well on Instagram andthey're gonna do well on TikTok.
So I love that and I envy thatbecause I think when you have a
service business, it's not so much.
Do you think people need,it's an interesting one.
This isn't it.
I feel like it's a debate that's beengoing on for years between Instagram and,
(17:13):
and then with the videos coming along.
But do you think, obviously if you'vegot a really aesthetic brand and it
all fits for you, perfect, but it, dopeople still respond when it's just
real and raw and shot in a hurry and.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
I think they really do.
So there's another lady called PaintedLove Customs, and she paints sort of
leather jackets and Doc Martins and thingslike that for weddings, but with flowers.
(17:36):
Has a store off platform.
But have a look at her JadeKdi or Painted Love Customs.
You can look at either of those.
You'll find her, but she literallyshares all her business experience
while she's just working.
And she'll tell you a little storyand I think that works really well.
And that would be, the bad situationsand the good situations that she shares.
But mostly the struggles.
And I love it because I think.
(17:57):
You just keep going back tohere, how did she solve it?
And that'll be the next video.
So it's almost got that sort ofserialization that you might get with a
mini sort of BBC series and why and thereason why really that sort of the BB, C
and Netflix see TikTok as their competitorbecause you do have this element of
being able to post very long videos.
(18:17):
Various episodes, so I love that.
And I love as well how big brands likeWaitrose and Water Stains then have
their own sort of high street accounts.
Yes.
Some of them are really funny.
Employee generat rated content,which is huge this year.
If you've got some employees, justget them to do everything for you.
(18:40):
It's leading to all sorts ofpanic and contracts and when do
I have to be in your tiktoks?
But yeah lots and lots of differentapproaches, but I think ultimately
you've just gotta ask yourself,what do you wanna get out of TikTok?
Are you there to sell or are youthere Maybe just to get people onto
your newsletter so that you cansell to them from that instead.
Yeah.
And what do you enjoy doing?
What kind of content do you enjoy doing?
(19:01):
Isn't that part of it?
Yeah, and I think you've got to, Ithink experimenting is great as well.
There's so many, I think people don'talways realize that you can post
single photos on TikTok in the waythat you no longer can on Instagram.
Really it works.
You can post carousel posts, so justphotos which is a little bit easier
for business owners sometimes becauseyou might already have the content and
(19:23):
you can just tell a story that way.
It could be five shirts or it couldbe by color, or it could be by
Valentine's Day, or it could be justthe first picture of my shop before
I opened it, and, where we are now.
Befores and afters.
It's really, and you can evendo trends that way as well, is
that's really flexible content.
I'm a huge lover of those,and TikTok really pushes them.
The other thing that TikTokreally pushes is longer videos.
(19:45):
So in the creative fund, theyactually pay creators for.
Videos that are over one minute long.
So
To have videos with a bit moresubstance, I think, compared to
Instagram, where you might have a verylong caption, but a very quick video.
And I actually like those longervideos because I feel like that's how
I would like to learn from someone.
Talking and telling me thatthing or listening to your story.
(20:09):
So I think that's definitelysomething to experiment with as well.
Just look at all the formats and havea go and you'll probably land on the
one that works for you, but I thinkit takes a little bit of testing
and like I said before, we're reallyalways all testing all the time anyway.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
And if anyone's listening to this andthey're thinking, I just find this so
overwhelming and, or it's, not for mewhat's your advice on getting started?
(20:32):
I know you said to test things, butis there any other way that any other
sort of top tips for, just gettingstarted and staying on the right
side of being relevant, basically?
The first thing I'd say iscreate an account anyway.
Create an account, takeyour business name.
That might be the same asyour Instagram one, hopefully
before someone else makes it.
Pin three videos, who you are,what you do, and who you do it for.
(20:56):
Something like that.
And if you don't, if you're notfeeling tiktoks quite right for you.
Yet, at least you have that inplace and you'll see that you
start gaining followers anyway.
But what's important about that isthat you are then not missing out
on conversations about your brand.
And I think people will miss that becausethere are, you might not want to be
on TikTok, but your customers mightalready be and they might be making
(21:17):
content about your business, or they'vecome to the fair where you were and
they can't tag you in, and it's oh, allyou need is to set up a profile page.
You don't even be posting lots,but just be there to be tagged in.
And again, I think if you'renot sure about TikTok, decide
what you want to get out of it.
Some people are there because they wannafill up their Facebook groups or their
(21:37):
memberships or the big one obviously isgetting people on your newsletter so that
you can get people off platform into theplace where you can really sell to them.
Are you just there for brandawareness to have a shop front?
Are you there to attract theattention of Sainsbury's or
Boots or, something like that?
What are you trying to achieve?
How to think about that anddon't be overwhelmed by it.
I would say try and remember to have fun.
(21:59):
I know that's really silly, butI absolutely adore the extent
of the creativity and madness onTikTok, and I think, if you haven't
established Instagram account,you've learned a lot along the way.
If you were gonna start it again,you'd probably do it a bit differently.
You go onto TikTok, people don'treally know you're there yet
when you are a small account.
(22:20):
Have a go with some things like testsome different content, a bit, I'd say.
And I think also just like mastering,talking to camera is huge because
that means you never have to messaround with affy edits again, or
transitions or smart and clever things.
You can just talk and tellyour business story and I think
that's super, super powerful.
But obviously.
That takes a little bit of gettingused to it, but it's very liberating.
(22:42):
Once you do, and I think just goingback to what partner and wine does
well, it is, I think if you are newto TikTok, it is just thinking about
what your business stories are.
Can you story tell themthrough carousel posts?
Can you share that conversation youhad with your client the other day?
He wasn't sure about which onethey wanted to buy and what
helped them make up their mind.
We all have loads of storiesthat we don't notice.
(23:02):
We have, I think those are nice.
They're nice and relatable waysto start talking on TikTok and
that's where you're gonna grow.
The other thing that I'd say is Ithink people tend to post like their
dog and then you know their product.
That's fine if that's what you wantto do, but your growth, and I do a bit
as well, but your growth will alwaysbe a little bit slower because the
(23:24):
algorithm's not always a hundred percentsure of what you are actually there
for and what you are talking about.
So I do see the accounts that tendto do better, faster are very niche.
You just stick to the subject.
I love that.
Okay, so keep it simple.
Liberate yourself, have somefun, and keep it on topic.
(23:44):
Sounds that I, yeah, not thateasy, I realize, but it's just
a bit of practice, isn't it?
And your drafts are there for a reason.
Use them, have a go andstick it in the drafts.
Yeah.
And ultimately it's about just testtesting, like you say, give it a test.
Yeah.
Fantastic.
Thank you so much.
I really enjoyed our conversation.
Do you wanna finish us off bytelling everyone where they can find
(24:07):
out more about working with you?
Yes.
Very simply either go to my LinkedInbio on Instagram or TikTok and you
can join my newsletter where I shareall my, I've got quite a lot of
in-person events coming up this summer.
If you are interested in joining andlearning more about, TikTok, but just
come and connect with me on Instagramand TikTok, it's BarBrusa_Social.
(24:27):
I think it'll be written somewhere.
That's a silly spellingand a silly pronunciation.
But do you come and askme anything about TikTok?
'cause I'm always happy to chatand also make videos about things
that you might be struggling with.
But yeah, come and connect withme and I'd love to talk to you.
Thank you so much for listening in.
Why not head over to Instagram atResilient Retail Club or indeed
TikTok at Resilient Retail Clubas well, where you can say, hi.
(24:49):
Let me know what you thought about today'sepisode, and if you've got any questions,
don't hesitate to ask or drop over and sayhi to Penny at BarBrusa Social as well.
Her links are in the show notes.
If you have a moment to rate and reviewthe podcast on Apple Podcast, it makes
a huge difference to getting the showout there to more listeners and if you
like, follow or subscribe, depending onwhich platform you're on, you'll be the
(25:10):
first to note about each new episodewhen it comes out on a Thursday morning.
See you next week.
TikTok, this is one of the socialmedia platforms that many people have
a bit of a love-hate relationship with.
It's fast moving.
There's still great opportunitiesfor organic growth, but it can be a
very demanding platform and for manypeople they may be wondering how
best to use it for their business.
If that's you, then thisis the perfect episode.
I am joined by PennyWalker of BarBrusa Social.
(00:22):
Who's gonna be talking all things TikTok.
Welcome to the Resilient RetailGame Plan, a podcast for anyone
wanting to start, grow, or scale aprofitable creative product business.
With me, Catherine Erdly the ResilientRetail Game Plan is a podcast dedicated
(00:44):
to one thing, breaking down theconcepts and tools that I've gathered
from 20 years in the retail industry.
And showing you how you canuse them in your business.
This is the real nuts and bolts ofrunning a successful product business
broken down in an easy, accessible way.
This is not a podcast about learninghow to make your business look good.
(01:04):
It's the tools and techniquesthat will make you and your
business feel good confidently.
Plan, launch, and manage your productsand feel in control of your sales
numbers and cash flow to help youbuild a resilient retail business.
(01:25):
Penny, welcome back to the podcast.
Thank you so much for joining us again.
Do you want to kick us off by tellingeveryone who you are and what you do?
Yeah.
Hi there.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm Penny.
I'm the founder of BarBrusa Socialand I'm a TikTok trainer, and I
also create content for brands.
So I generally help people whoare established on Instagram
to get started on TikTok.
(01:47):
Amazing.
And we're gonna delve into allthings TikTok, what's going on
right now, what the trends are,who's doing well and so much more.
So I can't wait to get started.
So yeah, let's talk about trends then.
Tiktoks known as being a trend-basedplatform, but what are we seeing
now at the moment in terms of trendscompared to maybe the sort of trends
that we used to see dominating?
Yeah, so there definitely are some bigtrends that I'll talk about in a moment.
(02:09):
But I do think there's a shiftaway from your content being
trend driven, that it certainlyused to be probably back in 2020.
And I think there's a lot more space nowas it becomes more of an SEO platform.
Mm.
For sort of authentic evergreen contentabout your business and your brand.
But there are some brillianttrends going round.
(02:30):
One that I loved at the moment is Idunno if you've seen it, she didn't
know it yet, but in five minutes.
That's quite a good one becauseit's really, you can really use
it for your brand or business.
You could use it to have fun or youcould use it for a more serious message.
So some of the ones I like are I left mycorporate job and started my own business.
And that's that's just a reallynice way to see behind the scenes.
(02:50):
So it's a trend, but you are alsomaking it relevant to your business.
There's the anxiety one that Iwould quite frankly, smack in the
face if I saw it, because I'm sosick of hearing it everywhere.
It's just the anxiety, but it's been fun.
And the, the dancing one was good.
And then I also say to my studentslike, go back and look at the old
trends because a lot of those werereally good in the first place.
(03:11):
If you have a big launch comingup, you can really dig into
those old ones that worked justto reuse them for your business.
Now, like nobody wants to see anxietythis week or next week, but if you
do it again in six months becauseyou have a launch coming up and it's
relevant, you can really make it work.
And then a good example of thatone is do you remember the trend?
If you asked me how I am,I'd tell you I'm okay.
(03:34):
But if you asked me on a deeper level.
Yes.
And you see it performingconsistently well all the time.
So there's lots of trends like thatwere good a year ago, two years ago,
that you could go and dig out again.
And I see big brands doing thatin their launches, so I love that.
However, I did see someone say theother day that TikTok feels like Open
University these days 'cause everyone'slike sharing longer videos, but I think
(03:57):
it's because they introduced a STEM feed.
So there's quite a lot oflearning content as well.
But really you don't have to do trends.
You can do trends.
There's plenty of trends.
If that's what you are into and youcan make it relevant for your business,
if you don't like them and it doesn'tsuit you, you do not have to bother.
Yeah.
It's one of those things thatpeople, I still hear people
say sometimes about TikTok.
They're like, oh, Idon't wanna be in TikTok.
(04:18):
I don't wanna be dancing around.
And I'm like, I think we'reway past that these days.
I don't even think you were doing thatin 20, like some people were, but I
think as a, as your business feed.
You are only gonna see stuffthat's relevant to you.
If you go and look, canyour teenagers feed it?
There's still lots of dancing there is on.
I love it.
I've danced on TikTok.
It's fun, like you're meantto have fun that's not you,
(04:40):
and it's not what you want.
You can be perfectly successfulwithout going near any of that stuff.
You touched there on how it's evolved.
It's an, it certainly is a lot ofentertainment on there, but it's not
just an entertainment app anymore.
So you touched on SEO.
Can you talk us a little bit more abouthow you might use TikTok as an SEO tool?
(05:01):
Yeah, so I absolutely think that TikTok isquite misunderstood as being just a social
media platform, which it isn't at all.
It's a massive search engine.
And in fact, I'd say that the GenZs and increasingly millennials are
using TikTok to look for information,to search for information about
your holiday, where to go out fordinner, where to buy what you love.
So it's super powerful.
(05:22):
And what does that do for your business?
It makes your business discoverable,so being able to use it correctly
means that when people are puttingsearch terms into TikTok, they can come
across your business or your product.
So you can't ignore it.
It's there, it's happening.
So what I would say isdo a bit of research.
If you go in the search bar above the,when you when you are in the feeds,
you'll see there's a search bar.
(05:43):
You can just type in what you do, whetherit's engagement rings or dog leads.
Just go and have a look and seewhat times people are using.
But it's brilliant because that meansyour content has a really long shelf life.
That's of evergreen content whereyou've bothered with the SEO means your
business can be discovered, for a videoyou might have done two years ago.
So it might be that video is explodingor going viral in the moment, but
(06:05):
it's a useful video for your business.
And you'll see that in the analyticsthat goes from FYP, which is the main
feed where you are delivered thingsyou're most interested in to, to search.
You wanna be on the FYP when you posta video, but after a period of time,
you'll no longer be on it, you'll beon the search 'cause people are looking
for your video using search terms.
(06:25):
Yeah, it was, it'sfascinating, this topic.
I find it really interesting.
So I just back from San Diego, aswe were talking about earlier and
social media marketing world, therewas somebody called Melissa Lori, and
she did a talk about SEO for TikTok.
And it was really, eyeopening wasn'tjust to be fair, it wasn't just
TikTok, it was Instagram as well.
And I think she did a side by sidecomparison of a Google search for best
(06:49):
hotel in Paris versus TikTok search.
And on the Google search, you've gottascroll past all the sponsor posts and then
you've gotta find a post that looks likeit might have some interesting content,
but that's probably all sponsored too.
And you click it and then you'rescrolling down, you might get one
picture of the hotel and it's allvery, it like takes a long time.
And then they went into TikTok andsaid, best hotel's in Paris and
(07:10):
you've got like a hundred videos andthe person's in the room and they're
showing you the view and it's all veryimmediate and I really was fascinating.
She said that apparently Google'sshare of search dropped below
90% this year for the first time.
And it's because of peoplesearching in TikTok.
I mean, It's brilliant.
You can go so niche, and I think that'sthe lovely thing about it as well.
(07:31):
You're seeing videos that creatorshave made, so the person who's telling
you 10 things to do when you've onlygot two days in Paris, you'll see
too that it's absolutely brilliant.
The other thing that you find isactually your TikTok videos do land in
Google as well, so I can find my owncontent when I'm being really nosy.
And I'm on Google as well,which is quite good to know.
Yeah, we such a, I think this is such ahuge area and I think for me it was a real
(07:54):
light bulb moment because I have heardit said before, but it was just seeing
it like that and then also understandingthen actually if you go through and
say what are people searching for?
I'm gonna make a video on this.
One a week, something like that.
Look up the most commonly askedquestions, or like you say, when you
start typing it in you and it fillsit in what people are searching for.
Like you say, engagementrings what should they
(08:16):
Yeah, so you can go into the Creatorsearch Insights, which is a whole
big other topic, but if you type inCreator Search Insights, TikTok will
literally tell you what people areasking for information about in your
research, different for everybody.
And there's also a content gap as well.
So where is there a lack ofcontent about a certain subject?
It might not all be relevant to you.
(08:36):
But as TikTok understands you a bitmore, especially if you're on a strong
niche, it will be really relevant.
So that's a great wayto do content as well.
Oh, that's fabulous.
And I think for a lot of people,probably as well, I would imagine
that's a much easier thing to get yourhead around to go okay, I need to make
content that people can search on.
So let's go ahead and create thatcontent that answers the question rather
(08:57):
than, it's almost can be overwhelmingwhen you're like, where do I start?
Where do we, what do we even talk about?
What do.
You to do that's a great place to start
Yeah,
at.
Big test anyway, isn't it?
So is that working for you?
But it's nice.
It's nice to be told what to create.
Yeah.
No, I think it's exciting.
I think this, it is really excitingfor a lot of business owners.
(09:17):
'cause again, you could be supercreative and also showcase your
products really nicely as well, right?
If you're answering people's questions,you can actually show how your product.
Does whatever they'vegot a question about.
Yeah let's talk a littlebit then about actual sales.
'cause as we know, everything, all of thisis great, but it is gotta lead to sales.
We've got in-app shoppingnow and TikTok, right?
And three click checkouts.
(09:39):
So can you talk us through alittle bit about what that means?
And then also how realistic is itfor small businesses to drive sales
directly through the TikTok app?
Yeah, so I think businesses areusing TikTok different ways.
The three click makes it so easy to buyanything, but obviously that's, that's
a lot of energy from your business youneed to put into having a TikTok shop.
So there's two thingsthat people are doing.
(10:00):
One is being a TikTok seller,which means you upload a catalog
rather, like you would in Facebookand you sell your products.
Brands are getting round the disparityin price on your website or on your
Shopify by perhaps selling bundlesinstead, or slightly different product
to what you can find on the website.
Otherwise, the prices are a bit messyand that can be a bit inconsistent.
(10:22):
The other thing that a lotof people are doing is.
Actually having creator shops.
So rather than selling their ownproducts, they're selling complimentary
products to their business.
So that could be are you a flower store?
Maybe you are selling other people'ssoil or seeds or something like that.
Are you an artist?
You might be selling paintbrushes and thenyou'd be taking 10% commission on those
(10:44):
sales rather than selling your own thing.
So in a way, sometimes that'smore popular than selling.
So when you look at people who haveTikTok shops, you can take a soft
approach, go I'm gonna set up a catalog.
I'm gonna be able to link theseproducts easily to my video.
So three clicks from my videowith the link in to buying it.
Done.
But you have to invest a little bitof time in it because you could do
(11:06):
lives, you could sell in your lives.
So if something, if thatcomes to you naturally, that's
a great one to do as well.
TikTok recommends that you haveseveral things in your catalog, so
if you only sell one thing, maybethat's not gonna work for you so well.
And then you see there's huge brandslike The Ordinary or what's the, is
it Free Soul Who sell the protein?
Yes.
They've partnered with TikTok andthen they just do these massive sales,
(11:29):
so they're giving free samples out.
I got free samples from FreeSoul to make videos about it.
That's right for my network.
But as a brand as a small business, itmight be that there's creators who are
absolutely brilliant and have just theright audience to sell your product.
Two, and they'll take a 10%commission, but you might get
(11:50):
loads and loads of sales out of it.
So there's lots ofdifferent ways to work it.
Having said that, many people just push totheir link in bio and don't use the shop
because it feels like a lot to organize.
So you don't have todo it, have a go at it.
I think the people who are doing bestare the ones who really push it and
go all in and go we are gonna do this.
We're gonna give it two monthswhere we're behind all of the sales.
(12:13):
So lots of different ways to do it.
It's a big subject, but thething is buying things on
TikTok is so easy and addictive.
You can see the origin as well.
If things are made in China or ifthey're British brands, it would
love, it'd be lovely to know abit more about the British brands.
If someone wanted to lead thatrevolution, that would be great.
But yeah, definitely worth investigating.
(12:34):
But obviously you've gotta takeit seriously and set a bit of time
aside in your business to do it.
So if I am correct then from, basedon what you've said, so you can have
your link in bio, which just will takethem off platform and on into your
shop, which presumably we all knowthat the apps like you to stay in,
in the app, so that's less popular.
You can have your TikTok shop, whichis set up directly to your catalog.
(12:57):
Definitely has a Shopify integration andpresumably the other platforms as well.
And then you've also got this option whereyou've got creators selling your products.
I think this is really, I'm veryinterested in this phenomenon because
I think what we're seeing is thatpeople are overall wanting to give less
money directly to the platforms foradvertising, but they're happier to give
(13:21):
say, 10% to the creator for selling.
Because ultimately what's great aboutthat is, is that you are only going
to pay that 10% if you've made a sale.
So it's not like an ad whereyou have to plow the money
in and then see what happens.
You're literally like, okay,you sold it, you get 10%.
Which, for most people,10 percent's workable.
Especially when youthink about commissions.
(13:42):
You might pay another platform.
No, absolutely.
And there's some fantastic sellers outthere as well who really are niche.
So if you're selling things for momsand toddlers, for example, you can
imagine there's some just brilliantmoms out there selling this or their
toddlers or aunt pets fashion, all sorts.
But also TikTok will send you, Ialways get offers of free samples.
Then I have to make avideo within two weeks.
(14:03):
But obviously I try not to do it too muchpersonally just because it's not really
where I'm making money for my business.
But I think if you were,
There's lots of possibilities in there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's, I think it's fascinating.
And I suppose the probably the biggestissue that a lot of people have, and
I know a question that comes up a lotis like, how do you find the peop the
right people, the right niche people?
(14:24):
Yeah, so you can be matchedin the creator marketplace.
So TikTok will actually recommendpeople to you based on they're not
necessarily creators with big followings.
Just the right followings.
Yeah, because this is all about the nicheand the fit rather than the size, right?
Yeah.
Okay so definitelysomething to delve into.
But you said the people you thinkare doing it best then are the ones
(14:45):
that are really leaning into it.
Yeah, they're going all in.
Yeah, I think it's hardto do it on a small scale.
Gotta set, do a lot of setup justto sell a few things here and
there, or just your one product.
Maybe it's something that I wouldrecommend setting up and having a go
with a view to selling more at Christmas.
Yeah.
(15:05):
So a good time to get startednow and dip your toe in.
So who are some good good examplesright now that in small and
independent brands can learn from?
Yeah.
Gosh, there's so many andeveryone sees different ones.
And it amazes me how manyI haven't discovered.
Then you're like, oh, whydidn't I know about them?
There's one, there's one ladythat I absolutely love called
(15:25):
made with Mud, and she's a potter.
And she doesn't sell on TikTok.
She sells on off platform.
But what she does is dolots and lots of lives.
So she'll do live almost everyday where she's making her
wares, but also just talking.
So lots of people can, she's built upa really loyal following like this.
(15:46):
She's been on the TikTok Smallcreators newsletter as well with
big sort of banners around town.
She's done absolutely amazingly,but I love that approach.
So it's, you could run yourbusiness through lives.
That's one way of doing it.
Another brand that Ilove is Partner in Wine.
Do you?
Yeah.
Lucy Hitchcock.
absolutely.
I think she's just brilliant andI love, I love about what she does
(16:08):
is how she just talks about thewhole product development story.
So it's by the time she comes to launchingsomething, you are wrapped up in it.
You just want to buy it immediately.
And I think that's very I thinkshe probably does the same content
on Instagram and on TikTok, but Ilove that about TikTok, where often
it's more about sharing the story,sharing the development, and what
(16:28):
you are learning along the way.
Then actually look at this nicething I've got in blue and green.
Would you like one?
So I think she's about thatcreating a lot of momentum.
Another brand that I likeis Cots World's Tablescape.
So she sells block printedtablecloths and things like that.
What I love about what she does,it's a very small account, but she
does it on Instagram and TikTok.
It's a great example of having avery aesthetic brand where your
(16:53):
videos are beautiful, your productis beautiful, and therefore they're
just gonna do well on Instagram andthey're gonna do well on TikTok.
So I love that and I envy thatbecause I think when you have a
service business, it's not so much.
Do you think people need,it's an interesting one.
This isn't it.
I feel like it's a debate that's beengoing on for years between Instagram and,
(17:13):
and then with the videos coming along.
But do you think, obviously if you'vegot a really aesthetic brand and it
all fits for you, perfect, but it, dopeople still respond when it's just
real and raw and shot in a hurry and.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
I think they really do.
So there's another lady called PaintedLove Customs, and she paints sort of
leather jackets and Doc Martins and thingslike that for weddings, but with flowers.
(17:36):
Has a store off platform.
But have a look at her JadeKdi or Painted Love Customs.
You can look at either of those.
You'll find her, but she literallyshares all her business experience
while she's just working.
And she'll tell you a little storyand I think that works really well.
And that would be, the bad situationsand the good situations that she shares.
But mostly the struggles.
And I love it because I think.
(17:57):
You just keep going back tohere, how did she solve it?
And that'll be the next video.
So it's almost got that sort ofserialization that you might get with a
mini sort of BBC series and why and thereason why really that sort of the BB, C
and Netflix see TikTok as their competitorbecause you do have this element of
being able to post very long videos.
(18:17):
Various episodes, so I love that.
And I love as well how big brands likeWaitrose and Water Stains then have
their own sort of high street accounts.
Yes.
Some of them are really funny.
Employee generat rated content,which is huge this year.
If you've got some employees, justget them to do everything for you.
(18:40):
It's leading to all sorts ofpanic and contracts and when do
I have to be in your tiktoks?
But yeah lots and lots of differentapproaches, but I think ultimately
you've just gotta ask yourself,what do you wanna get out of TikTok?
Are you there to sell or are youthere Maybe just to get people onto
your newsletter so that you cansell to them from that instead.
Yeah.
And what do you enjoy doing?
What kind of content do you enjoy doing?
(19:01):
Isn't that part of it?
Yeah, and I think you've got to, Ithink experimenting is great as well.
There's so many, I think people don'talways realize that you can post
single photos on TikTok in the waythat you no longer can on Instagram.
Really it works.
You can post carousel posts, so justphotos which is a little bit easier
for business owners sometimes becauseyou might already have the content and
(19:23):
you can just tell a story that way.
It could be five shirts or it couldbe by color, or it could be by
Valentine's Day, or it could be justthe first picture of my shop before
I opened it, and, where we are now.
Befores and afters.
It's really, and you can evendo trends that way as well, is
that's really flexible content.
I'm a huge lover of those,and TikTok really pushes them.
The other thing that TikTokreally pushes is longer videos.
(19:45):
So in the creative fund, theyactually pay creators for.
Videos that are over one minute long.
So
To have videos with a bit moresubstance, I think, compared to
Instagram, where you might have a verylong caption, but a very quick video.
And I actually like those longervideos because I feel like that's how
I would like to learn from someone.
Talking and telling me thatthing or listening to your story.
(20:09):
So I think that's definitelysomething to experiment with as well.
Just look at all the formats and havea go and you'll probably land on the
one that works for you, but I thinkit takes a little bit of testing
and like I said before, we're reallyalways all testing all the time anyway.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
And if anyone's listening to this andthey're thinking, I just find this so
overwhelming and, or it's, not for mewhat's your advice on getting started?
(20:32):
I know you said to test things, butis there any other way that any other
sort of top tips for, just gettingstarted and staying on the right
side of being relevant, basically?
The first thing I'd say iscreate an account anyway.
Create an account, takeyour business name.
That might be the same asyour Instagram one, hopefully
before someone else makes it.
Pin three videos, who you are,what you do, and who you do it for.
(20:56):
Something like that.
And if you don't, if you're notfeeling tiktoks quite right for you.
Yet, at least you have that inplace and you'll see that you
start gaining followers anyway.
But what's important about that isthat you are then not missing out
on conversations about your brand.
And I think people will miss that becausethere are, you might not want to be
on TikTok, but your customers mightalready be and they might be making
(21:17):
content about your business, or they'vecome to the fair where you were and
they can't tag you in, and it's oh, allyou need is to set up a profile page.
You don't even be posting lots,but just be there to be tagged in.
And again, I think if you'renot sure about TikTok, decide
what you want to get out of it.
Some people are there because they wannafill up their Facebook groups or their
(21:37):
memberships or the big one obviously isgetting people on your newsletter so that
you can get people off platform into theplace where you can really sell to them.
Are you just there for brandawareness to have a shop front?
Are you there to attract theattention of Sainsbury's or
Boots or, something like that?
What are you trying to achieve?
How to think about that anddon't be overwhelmed by it.
I would say try and remember to have fun.
(21:59):
I know that's really silly, butI absolutely adore the extent
of the creativity and madness onTikTok, and I think, if you haven't
established Instagram account,you've learned a lot along the way.
If you were gonna start it again,you'd probably do it a bit differently.
You go onto TikTok, people don'treally know you're there yet
when you are a small account.
(22:20):
Have a go with some things like testsome different content, a bit, I'd say.
And I think also just like mastering,talking to camera is huge because
that means you never have to messaround with affy edits again, or
transitions or smart and clever things.
You can just talk and tellyour business story and I think
that's super, super powerful.
But obviously.
That takes a little bit of gettingused to it, but it's very liberating.
(22:42):
Once you do, and I think just goingback to what partner and wine does
well, it is, I think if you are newto TikTok, it is just thinking about
what your business stories are.
Can you story tell themthrough carousel posts?
Can you share that conversation youhad with your client the other day?
He wasn't sure about which onethey wanted to buy and what
helped them make up their mind.
We all have loads of storiesthat we don't notice.
(23:02):
We have, I think those are nice.
They're nice and relatable waysto start talking on TikTok and
that's where you're gonna grow.
The other thing that I'd say is Ithink people tend to post like their
dog and then you know their product.
That's fine if that's what you wantto do, but your growth, and I do a bit
as well, but your growth will alwaysbe a little bit slower because the
(23:24):
algorithm's not always a hundred percentsure of what you are actually there
for and what you are talking about.
So I do see the accounts that tendto do better, faster are very niche.
You just stick to the subject.
I love that.
Okay, so keep it simple.
Liberate yourself, have somefun, and keep it on topic.
(23:44):
Sounds that I, yeah, not thateasy, I realize, but it's just
a bit of practice, isn't it?
And your drafts are there for a reason.
Use them, have a go andstick it in the drafts.
Yeah.
And ultimately it's about just testtesting, like you say, give it a test.
Yeah.
Fantastic.
Thank you so much.
I really enjoyed our conversation.
Do you wanna finish us off bytelling everyone where they can find
(24:07):
out more about working with you?
Yes.
Very simply either go to my LinkedInbio on Instagram or TikTok and you
can join my newsletter where I shareall my, I've got quite a lot of
in-person events coming up this summer.
If you are interested in joining andlearning more about, TikTok, but just
come and connect with me on Instagramand TikTok, it's BarBrusa_Social.
(24:27):
I think it'll be written somewhere.
That's a silly spellingand a silly pronunciation.
But do you come and askme anything about TikTok?
'cause I'm always happy to chatand also make videos about things
that you might be struggling with.
But yeah, come and connect withme and I'd love to talk to you.
Thank you so much for listening in.
Why not head over to Instagram atResilient Retail Club or indeed
TikTok at Resilient Retail Clubas well, where you can say, hi.
(24:49):
Let me know what you thought about today'sepisode, and if you've got any questions,
don't hesitate to ask or drop over and sayhi to Penny at BarBrusa Social as well.
Her links are in the show notes.
If you have a moment to rate and reviewthe podcast on Apple Podcast, it makes
a huge difference to getting the showout there to more listeners and if you
like, follow or subscribe, depending onwhich platform you're on, you'll be the
(25:10):
first to note about each new episodewhen it comes out on a Thursday morning.
See you next week.
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