June 25, 2025 • 37 mins
It’s no secret I’m a big fan of Bird & Blend, so chatting with co-founder Mike Turner at Retail ROAR was a real treat. From a single market stall to 25+ shops across the UK, Mike and his co-founder Krisi have built something truly unique.
In this episode—a sneak peek from our Retail ROAR 2025 summit—Mike shares how Bird & Blend grew from iced tea samples and hand-packed blends into a beloved national brand, all while staying people-focused and rooted in community.
We cover:
- What “experiential retail” actually looks like (and what it doesn’t)
- How thinking omnichannel from day one set them up for growth
- The joy of unexpected blends (think rhubarb and custard tea!)
- Using crowdfunding, customer feedback, and team ideas to scale
- Why real loyalty comes from inclusion—not discounts
Whether you’re planning your first shop, growing your brand, or simply after a dose of retail inspiration—this one’s worth a listen.
🎟️ Want more content like this? Get on the waitlist for Retail ROAR 2026!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I am not ashamed to say that today'sguest is the co-founder of one of my
(00:03):
very favorite companies, Bird & Blend.
Started on a market stall sellingtea and tea drinks, and they have
grown to a chain of nationwide shops.
Including one in Borough Market, which ismy favorite place to go and hang out and
buy myself some more new delicious tea.
In fact, it's a long running joke in myfamily about how much I love Bird & Blend.
(00:26):
So when they found out I'd invitedMike Turner, the co-founder, to be on
stage with me at Retail ROAR this year.
They asked me, "Is this for businessor for personal reasons?" And
the answer is in honesty, both.
I'm a huge fan, so I've gotto be a big fan girl all the
way through this interview.
But I also think that they've builta phenomenal business and really
(00:48):
nailed their marketing, their customerloyalty, as well as their delicious tea.
So we've got a replay fromRetail ROAR with Mike Turner,
co-founder of Bird & Blend.
Enjoy.
Welcome to the Resilient Retail GamePlan, a podcast for anyone wanting to
start, grow or scale a profitable creativeproduct business with me, Catherine Erdly.
(01:14):
The Resilient Retail Game Plan isa podcast dedicated to one thing,
breaking down the concepts and toolsthat I've gathered from 20 years in
the retail industry and showing youhow you can use them in your business.
This is the real nuts and bolts ofrunning a successful product business,
broken down in an easy, accessible way.
This is not a podcast about learninghow to make your business look good.
(01:38):
It's the tools and techniques that willmake you and your business feel good.
Confidently plan, launch, and manageyour products, and feel in control of
your sales numbers and cash flow to helpyou build a resilient retail business.
Mike, thank you so much forjoining me on Retail ROAR.
(02:00):
It's an absolute pleasureto have you with us.
Do you want to start us off by tellingus about yourself and your business?
Yeah, of course.
Well, it's a pleasureto be here, catherine.
So I'm Mike, as you said.
I am one of two foundersof Bird & Blend Tea.
So we are a tea mixology companybased down here in Brighton
where I'm sat in our warehouse,which ising just down the coast.
(02:22):
A nd we create amazing blends of tea.
And then we retail them directly toour customers, both through stores.
So we've got 25 stores dotted aroundthe country as well as online.
But I guess our point of differenceis that we're really about experience.
Mm-hmm.
So whether that's for our customers,giving them fantastic experiences, but
the tees, some of which you can see behindme are just a kind of vessel for us to
(02:46):
give a great customer experience to.
Mm-hmm.
Or for our teams.
Us trying to give them a fantastic kindof experience as a place to work, which
was kind of in our founding principles.
Amazing.
And I should say out myself asa super fan of Bird & Blend Tea.
So if you've not tried Bird & Beaand you're watching this, then
I highly, highly recommend it.
I go to your Borough store quite often.
I can say it's a great example ofa really nice experience to go into
(03:10):
that store, and I think tea obviouslylends itself to that really well.
It does.
Yeah it's a perfect, it's a perfectproduct for doing it, really.
Yeah , absolutely.
And I think it's not to go off on toomuch of a tangent, but it's one of
my bug bears is that people alwaystalk about experiential retail.
It's one of the things that whenyou look into retail trends,
(03:30):
people often talk about that.
Particularly people were puttingall kinds of gimmicks into stores
because they were like, "oh, thisis experiential." And I saw all
kinds of weird and wonderful things.
But actually going into a store andsomebody offering you a really nice
sample of tea is actually, thatto me is great experiential retail
because it's genuinely, it's leadingyou towards a purchase decision,
(03:52):
but it's also just very pleasant.
And I think it fits so much more intothe ethos of what, you know, experiential
retail's really supposed to all be about.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, my, my backgroundpre Bird & Blend was I was in
hospitality, I worked in restaurantsand bars and that sort of thing.
Although I did work in Summerfieldas a kid for anyone who remembers
(04:12):
Summerfield as a company.
But that was my only retail experience.
And really what we do at Bird & Blendis closer to hospitality than retail.
I think we look to give customers agreat experience to make them smile.
Hopefully they buy the productas a kind of souvenir of that.
I think that's kind of where wediffer a little bit to a lot of the
companies who are kind of shops andthey're trying to make it experiential.
(04:34):
Mm.
We've kind of started with that actually.
It's about the customer having a greattime and then maybe they'll buy something
as to remind them of that great time.
Same as you would do in a restaurant.
Yeah, yeah.
That's really interesting.
So let's go back to the early days then.
So can you tell us a bit about howyou got started with it and how
you brought your vision to life?
(04:54):
Yeah, sure.
So Krisi, my co-founderand I, we met at uni.
And both of us were kindof passionate young people.
We wanted to change the world, and Ithink we met at a time where we were
going through a kind of journey ofrealizing what that could look like.
I'd always assumed I'd end up in kind ofNGOs or charity or something like that.
But it's also, I guess, that time whereyou're starting to work more hours and
(05:15):
you're starting to realize the impactthat working places has on your life.
And both of us have kind of got alittle bit sick of working places,
making suggestions and workinghard and being told by management
to get back in your box, you know?
And it made us realize that actuallyit was all of this untapped potential
that businesses can have a huge impacton the team members' lives and as well
(05:36):
as a huge impact on the world, whichis kind of what we'd wanted to do.
So we both kind of moved to this thinkingof actually starting a business could
be our way of changing the world.
Mm-hmm.
The next question waskind of what we should do?
And we spent a good couple of yearskind of having decided we wanted
to do something but not sure what,and we'd have different ideas and
(05:56):
buy the domain and start tryingto figure out how it would work.
And none of it reallyfelt like it would bite.
In the meantime, Krisi kindof fell into the tea industry.
And pretty quickly said, I think thatthis could be something, I think that
this is an industry that's a bit stale.
Mm-hmm.
And if you compare it to coffee,which I guess this would've
(06:19):
been around 2010, 2011, 2012.
Mm-hmm.
So kind of Starbucks were verymuch on the scene, but maybe we
hadn't had that next wave of it.
So she was kinda saying, well look, youknow, Starbucks had done this with coffee.
There's something in doingthe same thing with tea.
I said, nah, I don't think that'll happen.
When you kind of looked into it,the loads of much cleverer and
(06:43):
better funded people than us whohad given it a try and not worked.
So I said, I don't think that's the one.
And convinced her to moveto Canada and go ski.
And I kind of said, let's go, let's go skifor a few years whilst we figure it out.
So we went out, livedin a town called Ferny.
Krisi went back into the teaindustry out there and I kind
of saw what she was saying.
(07:05):
Could work in the UK, over on theother side of Atlantic, they tend to
be a year or so ahead, don't they?
Mm-hmm.
And I can remember one day going toa McDonald's and getting a cup of
tea at the drive-through and, listingout like seven different types.
I'm thinking Christ, like in theUK if you ask for a cup of tea
at McDonald's, you're not gettingoffered all these different things.
Yeah, and then having a tea lattein a place that she worked at
(07:26):
and it being beautifully servedand just being delicious and me
thinking, yeah, this could work.
We decided, let's give it a whirl.
The Olympics were on, there was no work inthe town we were in spring, so we decided
we'd come back for spring see if itworks, and either go back there or stay.
And I'm still here 12 years later.
So you started selling atmarkets, is that correct?
(07:48):
Yeah, so we came back and we booked ourfirst market six weeks after landing.
And we were quite, you know, looking backit all sounds very clever at the time.
It didn't feel it.
We wanted to know if people would buy,at the time, these drinks from us.
Yeah, so we had six weeksto create a business.
We had the name, but that's about it.
So create blends andall that sort of thing.
(08:08):
We went to market startedand people were interested.
And then through that spring wehad a whole load of different ones
and we kind of adapted and changeduntil come the end of the spring.
We were pretty sure we hadsomething which could work.
It was then a case of actuallylet's try and make it work.
And over that period, yeah, I carried on.
Do markets.
Krisi would work on all the kind ofclever side, like digital and that sort of
(08:29):
thing, and it kind of all went from there.
So it started like as physical in termsof the markets and meeting people.
And so it started like as the drinks,like you say, it was serving tea
drinks and then people wanted tobuy the tea to then make a home.
Is that how it began?
That's exactly it.
So the drinks were the initial idea.
And then we created, I think we had abouteight blends or so, which we created
(08:52):
as ingredients for the drinks really.
But very, very quickly we realized thatpeople were more interested in the blends.
Right.
But the blends.
You could post out.
Yeah.
So worked online.
But if doing a market, it's alot easier to set sell blends
that you've packed at home, yeah.
Than go and set up and deal withall the food hygiene issues and
(09:14):
making drinks and met a higher.
Unit price.
So in every way theblends are a better move.
So over time, most blends grew outand to the point where I stopped
doing the drinks in the markets,I would just do the blends.
And now where we do the drinks wedo have the drinks in the stores for
those who have been in our stores.
All do take away drinks, a coupleus of seating, but we don't
do food or anything like that.
(09:34):
But the drinks are really betterto showcase what you can do.
The blend so you can make amazingice tea cocktails or whatever it is.
So yeah, we started very much physically,but we were also kind of omnichannel
from the start before that was a thing.
So because we were interested inwhether we could create customers
(09:55):
who are interested in doing it, Iwas just as concerned about my bit of
paper with people's email addresseson as I was about the the money
that I would take home each day.
And we were just as interested in howwe could, but the business model was
go to a market, try and have a greatconversation with someone and get
(10:16):
'em to buy something and hopefullythey'll keep reordering online.
Frankly, that's still the business model.
We just swap out markets for shops.
Everything is exactlythe same as about them.
The customer experience, everythingwas learned over that period.
So yes, we were physical first intheory, but we were kind of omnichannel
(10:36):
from the very beginning, the divisionof where Krisi and I, I guess,
enjoyed, were interested, developedsome level of skill was she did sit
in that digital side and I did sitin that physical side quite neatly.
Right, got you.
That makes a lot of sense.
So you'll see, and I think this is areally important point because I had
this conversation a lot with peoplewho maybe they run and say, for
(10:59):
example, an independent retailer andthat's their main source of income.
Or they do a lot of events, and I'malways pushing this idea of using
your events or your in-person elementto obtain customers for the digital
side, but it sounds like that'sexactly what you guys were aiming for.
And I love that you said that youwere as concerned about the number
of names on the paper that you wereusing to collect people's email
(11:20):
addresses than you were from the sales.
Because it's not about sales,it's about customers, right?
Yes.
Yeah, It is about creatingthat community of people.
So yeah, because we knew that, you know.
Tea is a low selling point going,doing a market you're never gonna
come back with huge amounts of money.
You might just about cover your costs,so knew from there that the only way
(11:44):
it could work was if we were winningcustomers there, that we turned into
customers who would keep on buyingfrom us over a number of years.
Yes, over time I've started to hearphrases like lifetime value and
understand, you know, marketing and thatsort of thing, and realize how what we
were doing fits into those clever bits.
But yeah, from the verybeginning it was all about that.
And I totally agree.
You know, events same.
We would go and do, we used to doGlastonbury for years and Doby festivals,
(12:06):
and it was the same thing at Glastonbury.
We might have been serving ice teasrather than the packs in general.
Yeah.
But again, it was those emailaddresses that we were in that we
were interested in getting really.
Yeah.
That be a good time.
Because I presume that tea is quitean interesting one in terms of people
are quite loyal once they're init, but it maybe takes a little bit
more to get them to overcome theirbuilt-in loyalty, do you think?
(12:30):
Or do you think people arequite fickle with their tea?
Both.
So the teas which we do are thingslike, what are some examples behind me?
Candy floss, marscapone, sourcherry, cherry baked well.
So if you can see some of them,they're not kind of your normal
tea so we are not doing straightdarling and that sort of thing.
Yeah.
(12:50):
So we are not competing with peoplewho are drinking normal teas.
So to speak, right?
Which in some ways is a challenge.
You know, no one is shopping fora rhubarb and custard tea, right?
Mm-hmm.
So we need to kind of stop them and tryand encourage them that they do want that.
Now, the great thing isthat if we do do that.
(13:12):
Because it's unique to us.
Mm. We don't kind of open theireyes to the whole world of tea.
We kind of open theireyes to Bird & Blend.
Yeah.
and I learned very quickly on thosemarkets that our best customers were
often the people when I first engaged withthem said, "oh, I don't like tea." Yeah.
'cause then if we got them to likethe little sample I gave them,
and again, this is still exactlythe same outside the stores.
(13:34):
Our teams are stick withtray and get samples.
If they like that sample, theydon't think, oh, I like tea.
They think, "Hmm. Oh, I likeBird & Blends tea." Mm-hmm.
And then they stick with us.
Now there are also a segment ofcustomers who love the world of tea.
Yeah.
And they love trying a first type, butthey also love trying, you know, different
(13:55):
things which can be done with flavoringand blends and that sort of thing.
They're very fickle.
We have such a range thatwe love them as well.
I was thinking, I think I fitinto that second category.
But I'm, well, maybe I'm fickle.
I dunno, who can say?
But it's interesting about the blends.
Can we touch on that briefly?
Because did you, eitherof you have a background?
Well, you said that Krisi didhave a tea background, so was
(14:17):
she able to create the blends?
Because that's gotta be a skillin itself to actually create.
How did you even comeup with the first six?
Or how did you evenfigure out, right, yeah.
We can blend this in a waythat's consistent and we can send
something out that people aregonna get the same results at home.
Or was that a steeplearning curve in itself?
It was, yeah.
So we knew that we wanted 'em to bedifferent because at first they were
(14:39):
starting off kind of as ingredients.
Yeah.
So like two examples, which I thinkabout up there, actually, Mojitea
and Strawberry Lemonade have beenwith us since the very beginning.
So Mojitea is a green tea oflime and peppermint, Strawberry
Lemonade is a really fruity tea.
Both of those were kind ofenvisaged as an iced tea.
So an alcohol free mojito,a really refreshing drink.
And a sort of nice sweetalternative to whatever sweet
(15:02):
brand you wanna stick in there.
Yeah, so those ones, it was reallyeasy 'cause we initially, 'cause we
started off with the kind of conceptof the ice drink and worked back
what the ingredient for it would be.
Mm-hmm.
Now you're right that actuallyit can get quite complicated.
And we were obsessed withthe whole experience.
So for us, it wasn't justabout that end product, it was
(15:23):
what does the blend look like?
What does it smell like?
As well as what it tastes like.
And that was quite uniquewith us at the time.
And as we went round trying to find peoplewho could help us with the blending, we
kind of had every door closed in our facebecause it went against these kind of
rules of tea and rules of blending where,you know, the rule number one is every cup
in a batch has to taste exactly the same.
(15:44):
Right.
I see.
Well, if we take Mojitea, which is abrilliant, is a really good example
actually, because I had quite a bigargument with one of our suppliers
in the very early days 'causewe put big chunks of lime in it.
Yeah, and obviously every cupdoesn't have a chunk of lime in it.
So some cups will taste different.
But we think it lookscool when you open it.
It makes it so it really does breakthe kind of rules of blending,
(16:04):
but for us that kind of, oh, it'sgot big chunks in it and stuff.
It's eye catching.
It's part of the experience was so key.
Mm-hmm, I see.
And obviously you've got a huge range now.
I mean that what you have there is, Iknow, just a fraction of what you've got.
Does it get easier or harder to comeup with new ideas as you go along?
Well, that's a good question.
Both, I feel like I'm saying both fornot answering any of your questions.
(16:26):
I'm dodging all of that.
The reason it gets easieris over time a team grows.
So initially it was meand Krisi doing all of it.
And a lot, sometimes it'dbe really random stuff.
You know, we might clearly we'reinto food, you're going into food
markets, you meet interested peopleand try trying interesting things.
And sometimes you'd thinkthat could work as a tea.
(16:48):
Yeah.
And you'd come back andyou'd figure it out and.
I didn't quite answeryour previous question.
Yeah sometimes it's reallyhard to do that, but over time
you figure out how to do it.
Yeah.
Because ingredients, which when you stick'em in water, don't release the flavor
they have when you just taste them.
So you have to figure out alldifferent things, make them smell and
look, and there's quite a lot to it.
We would also do collections.
So I referenced Rhubarb and Custardbefore we actually launched that
(17:10):
as part of a sweets collection.
So we had Rhubarb andCustard, Lemon Sherbert.
Oh God, what else?
Cherry Lips for a littlegroup of them within that one.
Yeah so you'd have thesekind of different ideas.
Now you're right.
Over time we've probably created300, 400 different blends by now.
Mm-hmm.
So it gets quite hard tocome up with different ideas.
But what we have now is we have awhole team, so we have about 230
(17:33):
people in the business at the moment.
Mm-hmm.
Our teams are hugely passionate,smart, unique individuals who are
pretty bought into what we're doingand are overflowing with ideas.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, some of our most recentblends are ideas which have come
from team members in the stores.
We have a kind of digital suggestionsbox where they could submit them.
(17:55):
We now have a product team, so actuallyKrisi's not involved day to day anymore.
We kind of went from a point of me andKrisi creating the blends together to
then Krisi really became the tea expertand really knew what she was doing
and drove the creative vision forward.
Then over the last couple ofyears she's taken a back seat.
But what she's developed isa product team who've worked
with her over a period of time.
Mm-hmm, yeah.
And they're overflowing with ideas,so in some ways it gets easier
(18:17):
'cause we've got fresh ideas comingfrom yeah, not just from a product
team itself, but this resource ofteam members around the business.
Yes.
Yes, totally.
And you presumably also can recycleafter a certain amount of time.
If you've had things that limited edition,you can bring some of those back as well.
And yeah.
And the customers like that.
And that's always actually beenpart of the business model.
So a couple of our biggestteas are exactly that spice
(18:41):
pumpkin pie is a Halloween tea.
We do, and we've done thatsince the very beginning.
You know, we were in veryinfluenced by North America.
Yes.
And that one we really kind of wentfor that creme effect of bring it back.
And it used to be day one, it wasa biggest sales day of the year.
Now it's become a smallerpart of that mix actually.
But yeah, so we will recycle andthen there are certain ones which
everyone has just forgotten about.
(19:01):
We bring back, we do vote back.
So yes you can recycle them.
The other bit is youcan get clever with it.
So we have a tea coming out thisyear, which is the first time
it's ever kind of following one ofthose trend reports, and you know.
Mm-hmm.
Now the suppliers will send us thosereports where they say, here are some
ingredients which we think are gonna bereally popular over the next 18 months.
And for the first time, we've actuallylooked at one of them as an ingredient.
(19:22):
And then we thought,we've never heard of that?
And that sounds really cool.
Actually, it was literallysounds really cool.
I was like, that name would, I don'twanna say what it's, but you could
do some cool rhyming things with it.
Yeah, yeah.
And there's a beautiful story whichfits in and that sort of thing, as
well as it being a cool, new thing.
And we've always wanted tointroduce new things so you can
start to be a bit cleverer withit, rather than just two kids.
(19:43):
Yeah, mixing stuff togetherfor a bedroom, you know.
You've got a bit more, a fewmore resources behind you.
That's it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think I live in hope of, youhad a limited edition, a lump of
coal tea, which was both smokyand spicy, which is my favorite.
I always just thought it wasthe best tea I've ever had, but
yeah, I could totally see that.
It's like, sucks you in than your,then you've got your vote backs.
(20:04):
And I mean, I do think, you know,from a customer perspective, you
do a very good job of making itfeel like you're kind of part of a
club almost when you buy from you.
You know, like you'vegot your secret website.
If you've bought before yousell it to the email list.
I mean, 'cause of what I do, I'm alwayslooking at my experience as a customer
and I was like, that's really smart.
So you can only access it if you're onthe mailing list, which is brilliant.
(20:26):
Not even just 'causeyou're on the mail list.
Actually, there's a couple ofhoop you need to have jumped into.
Oh, now I feel even, even more privileged.
But you're right.
And there's that, we've got a group calledBrew Society, which is it's dedicated
customers, but it's also a Facebook groupwhich has 7,000-8,000 members on it.
And they're talking about it all the time.
And it's these kind of unlockingdifferent communities and things.
(20:48):
And you're right.
I think one of our things is where alot of companies try and be really cool.
We had a competitor who used tokind of go into their shops and
it was a bit like a nightclub.
They'd almost be looking downon you, leaning into that
coffee culture thing actually.
Where you go into a trendy coffee shopand they sort of spit at you 'cause
you don't know exactly what you want.
(21:09):
Whereas we've always been the opposite.
Like, "Hello, come and talk tous." And I think you're right, it
does create that kind of communityof very unique people or weirdos,
depending on how you wanna put it.
But I mean that in themost positive sense.
It's such, yeah, it'ssuch an interesting one.
And I think often it also, when wethink about loyalty, we often think
(21:32):
about it being to do with discountsand money off, et cetera, et cetera.
But actually, like you say like thatunlocking different levels of access.
People love feeling like an insider orlike they love that kind of, that access.
And I think people often overlookhow powerful that can be really.
Yeah , and it's great for us 'causeit gives forum to those people to talk
(21:52):
to us, to tell 'em what they like.
Advent calendar is a case in point.
So our Advent calendars oursingle biggest products of a year.
And last year, we made some changes to itwhich impacted the quality of the product.
We were trying to do things in a quitean environmentally as environmentally
friendly slash least environmentallyharmful, however you wanna put it.
In any way as possible, we made somechanges to try and support that.
(22:14):
And we got a lot of feedback thatactually people didn't like the changes.
Well, having that feedback containedamongst our super passionate fans.
Sometimes can be a bit overwhelming'cause everyone jumps in
and gives their two pence.
But equally it captures it.
It lets them feed in and then whenwe go back and say, "well look,
here's some changes we've made."
Mm-hmm.
Off the back of it, people feel includedand that feel include included is
(22:35):
such a key thing that runs through thebusiness, that it's all about community.
Mm-hmm.
You know, that runs through everything.
Even our name actually wascame from the community.
We rebranded and the name wechose was based on responses
to a survey from our customers.
Oh, okay.
We funded ourselves through crowdfunding,so we have 1800 of our most loyal
customers are owners in the business.
(22:56):
So that kind of community, bitof people kind of pitching in and
giving their ideas and stuff playsinto every aspect of the business.
That's really fascinating.
Can you tell me a little bitmore about the crowdfunders?
So how did that work or when was that?
Was that sort of a certain pointwhere you felt like you needed
more capital to grow and youdecided to go out to the community?
Yeah, so we've done it twice.
(23:17):
And that's the onlymoney that we've raised.
For a long time, me and Chrisy started itwhen we were 21, 22, something like that.
And we had a very long-term vision forthe company, so we never wanted to bring
in kind of all that institutional money.
Mm-hmm.
And be forced down the pathof grow, grow, grow, sell.
But we got to three stores,or just without any funding,
(23:37):
just reinvesting profits.
Was the main bit.
We did some kind of clever stuff with cashadvances when they were first coming out.
Mm-hmm.
Basically we had no money to start with.
And so when you've got no money,you learn how to bootstrap.
Yeah.
And then when people say, it stillis in us now, you know, I we had 5K
was what we started the business on.
Then when we opened our firststore, we got a 25K loan
(23:58):
through the startup loan scheme.
So I had to do everything ourselves.
Yeah, that still goes in now.
That I was talking to someone theother day who spends a quarter
million on my shop, fitouts.
We're still doing ours for like30K because I've still got that
thing of, well, I could putthat up so I'm not paying to.
So we were able to get to threestores without needing any funding.
We then kind of werewondering what to do next.
(24:21):
Felt like there was hugepotential in what we were doing.
And so we're thinking, well,maybe we should raise some funds.
And we started talking tosome of the different bits.
But we have this fear of grownupscoming and telling us what to do.
We didn't want that.
That was, one of our reasons for startingit was to go and do our own thing.
Yeah, and crowdfunding waskind of starting to be a thing.
(24:41):
Mm-hmm.
I guess BrewDog had kind of brokenthrough a bit and we kind of, I've
always been kind of interested inthat sort of, I'm just interested
in businesses and how they operate.
So I was kind of aware of it and Ithought this could work really well.
And, but actually the big bitfor me was how we could bring
the team on board through it.
Mm-hmm.
So I was actually in Bristol samplingand I can remember the moment that I
(25:03):
gave someone a sample and there's alittle bit of a kind, a spiel where you
introduce who we are and the guy said,well, you're not an independent then.
And I was like, oh, what do you mean?
He was like well, three stores,that's not an independent.
And I was thinking, well, I mean,I'm the owner and I'm sitting
with my serving tray, and ititfeels pretty independent to me.
It kind of clicked for what if everymember of our team could have that?
(25:26):
Thought in that moment.
Mm-hmm.
So that was actually thebiggest bit we cr about.
It was like, this is a way that we cangive our team shares in a meaningful way.
But it also went alongwith, let's bring it in.
Now, don't get me wrong, we had some, wewere lucky enough that over those first
few years, I think because we were young.
There were a few people we metand they were kind of like,
we like what we're doing.
Come and talk to, we'llgive you some advice.
(25:47):
And actually our biggestinvestor is exactly that.
He was a judge on a like Dragon'sDen panel for a three grand grant.
Oh wow.
And we went in and he said, I love it.
That evening he phoned us and said,I would love to invest a and I
don't wanna sound, might be mad.
And we're like, yeah, that ismad, but let's stay in touch.
And he's kind of being an advisor.
And then when we got to a point where wesaid we think we should raise some funds.
(26:10):
He said, "well, actually I'd quitelike to get involved." And there's
three or four people who havesimilar, we've met them through
doing this, or they've been customersor whatever and have put in money.
But it then allowed us topitch out to our customers.
Exactly the same as anyother marketing campaign.
It's not about the products, it'sabout joining in with what we're doing.
In 2017 we did that and we raisedabout 350,000 280 people, I think.
(26:36):
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Um, that got us up to about seven stores.
So in 2021, we did it again.
And we raised about a million thattime from, for about a 1500 investors
in that round who all came on board.
And exactly the same thing,us saying, come and join us.
We're doing this, we thinkit's got big potential.
(26:56):
But we're not planning onsaying we're gonna sell in three
years or anything like that.
As everyone else does and peopleseem to want to join the ride.
I see.
No, that makes total sense.
And I'm sure these are all yourmost loyal customers as well, right.
For sure.
Yeah, yeah.
So I, I just wanna touch on stores,because that's obviously been a big part
of it and you've been on a store opening.
(27:18):
So if I just get the timelineright, so 2021, you were at
seven stores, is that right?
Yeah.
About that.
And now you are 20.
You're 25.
I see, I'm even out date.
'Cause I thought it was 23.
But you must have opened twoin the last couple of months.
In the final quarter before Christmas,we had a push to open a few.
(27:41):
Yeah, we'll now have alittle bit of a karma period.
Although there's a couplewhich are in the works, but.
Right.
Yeah, yeah.
We did seven last year.
Oh, wow.
Wow.
That's a lot in a year.
And I wanted to talk to you, you knowone of the reasons, obviously I'm, in
fact I'm a big fan, is that you know,you've really embraced bricks and
mortars stores as part of your model.
Now, from everything you'vesaid, I completely understand
why, because it's so integral.
(28:02):
But I'd love to just hear from you,why do you think physical stores
still have such an important roleto play in today's retail world?
Yeah, well for me it goes backto that kind of human experience.
That people want to have aconnection and they want to
do something or see something.
(28:23):
Mm-hmm, and that can beright from, you know.
I love walking my dog up in thesouth downs above where you can see
the view of sea and the countrysideand all that sort of thing.
But that also can mean going into town andexperiencing, new products or cocktails
or food or anything, which is kind of anexperience that makes you feel something.
(28:43):
Now, while some of thatis replicatable digitally.
Yeah.
And you know, clearly, in fact we havelots of customers and team members who
are big gamers and that sort of thing,and they build these communities online.
Yeah.
I sound like an old person'cause I've never been a gamer.
I don't really understand it.
But it's the same connection, right?
Yeah.
But it, but it's not for everybody.
A lot of people, myself included,need that kind of that physical.
(29:06):
Now, I think this is where peoplekind of, who talk about the death
of a high street are kind ofmissing what's actually happening.
There's an increased need as webecome more digital and we work from
home and jobs become a lot more,you know, talk screen and using
ChatGPT and all that sort of thing.
To have moments where we stop and justthink, I'm gonna use cocktail as another
example because I happens to go to areally good cocktail bar the other day.
(29:27):
So it's in my head, the way that has beenskillfully crafted and the glass that it's
in and a beautiful environment I'm in.
And the theater of making it isa moment in itself which couldn't
have been repeated online.
Mm-hmm.
And increasingly I think people wantto go when they want to go into town.
It's for that.
It's to go and dwelland to have a nice time.
(29:48):
Mm-hmm.
Now I do see that what they are lesslikely to want to do is when they
need, I've just moved house, so I need,I need to buy a tool the other day.
Yeah, do I want to go to theiron mongers and go and get the?
Actually that day I did because I wantedit straight away and it was annoying that.
But you know, generally that kindof thing you need, which is the
(30:09):
traditional thing of business.
Find a need you can fulfill.
You can get online in general.
You can buy your clothesonline and that sort of thing.
But I think it's where it's a pleasure.
Mm mm-hmm.
And that will continue to have a place.
Actually clothes is a really badexample there 'cause for a lot of people
it's because I hate clothes shopping.
(30:29):
I was just gonna, I was thinkingthat to myself that just,
I just said something about how youfeel about clothes shopping because
there's a lot people who put that under.
Stresses me out in seconds.
Um, sadly, a. A company calledStitch Fix who used to just send
me boxes with clothes have gone.
So I now have to think about it again, butfor a lot of people they love that, right?
(30:50):
Yeah and so going in and the wholeexperience having sofas and you
know, and that's all part, andthat's what you're really paying for.
Yeah.
And I think that's the bitwhich people are missing.
But you can't just have a shop,which is a rail of cloves or mm-hmm.
Or shelves of tea or whatever it is,which people can just get online.
Because if it's about convenience.
It's now Amazon will deliver same day.
(31:10):
Yeah.
You're not gonna win on convenienceif it's that human thing that is not
replicatable in the same way online.
And so I think really leaning intothat and you see that through what
we do, but the stores are reallyjust created a spaces for people
to talk and to have a nice time.
And our thing has always been, it doesn'teven matter if they buy something,
(31:30):
if they come and have a nice time.
That's what it's about there.
Put into places.
We're not in any shoppingcenters at the moment.
And that's because we put ourselvesin place where people are going to
dwell and they're going to cafes andthey're going to look at art galleries,
and we hope that they drift into ourplace as part of that experience.
Yes, that makes total sense.
You know, there's such a symbioticrelationship as well between
online and bricks and mortar.
(31:52):
So for example, if you're opening in a newmarket, I'm sure that also opens up more
web sales in that market as well, right?
Because the people that cameto the store and bought are now
coming back and buying again.
And are you still very much seeing thestores as almost like the channel to.
get people, to get their detailsand get also be able to sell to them
online or get them to buy online.
(32:14):
For sure.
The stores are ourbiggest marketing channel.
Our business model has alwaysbeen starting off with markets.
Go do market, introducecustomers to what we do.
Ideally, they'll keepshopping with us online.
The stores are exactly the same thing of.
Hopefully people come intothe stores like what we do.
And will shop with us online.
Traditionally my attitude was thatas long as the store broke beven.
(32:35):
I t was worth doing because itwas driving customers to us.
All of our stores do actually makemoney, but I would say that I would
rather put money into retail thaninto google or Facebook's hands.
Mm. So I would actually be comfortablewith opening a store at a loss
and treating it as marketing.
So a hundred percent they're totallycombined and I think, again, it's
(32:55):
really easy to just say, oh, omnichannelis about collecting email addresses.
Or equally, it's really easy tosay, it's really complicated.
Our till system, our online systemstill isn't connected together.
Oh really?
They're different systems.
We've tried three times to connect itand yet I would say that our joined up
experiences, you know, as a customeris better than most companies which
(33:17):
have really, really clever systemsbecause it goes from the very heart of
what our team are doing in the storesthat they're not jealous of online for
getting the sales or anything like that.
They see it all as one big thing.
Yeah, that makes total sense.
Thank you so much.
I've really enjoyed our conversationand I think it's just fascinating and
I love the fact that you are reallypursuing that bricks and mortar expansion.
So you said there's a bit of a lull.
(33:38):
But do you have more plans formore stores in the UK then?
Oh yeah.
Definitely more stores in the UK.
It's more a lull of a few months.
I think this year we'lldo another six or seven.
Mm-hmm.
We're growing pretty fast and we've notgot any intentions to stop doing that.
Yes so I think it is a funnyone 'cause I always said 24
was the number that we needed.
And we've now just got over that.
(33:59):
So we are trying new marketsand that sort of thing.
So it will kind of depend howthat goes, but we'll definitely
keep on opening for a fair while.
Is it maybe easier as theyears have gone by to get?
Because I suppose, I think oftenbusinesses well, it depends on
the landlords, but there's acertain amount of balance of power.
If you can say, we are a well-knownbrand, we'll be bringing, 'cause you are
(34:20):
almost then foot full generators, right?
Because people know the brand andthey want to come and so then yeah.
There's definitely a tippingpoint where, your second shop
is your hardest one to get.
Cause your first one, the landlord,they know you are gonna be there and
it'll probably work too suddenly.
So that took some convincing,but now you're totally right.
And actually we've had a couple wherewe've been able to get quite significant
(34:45):
incentives where that's rent free orcapital contributions from a landlord
for exactly that reason, but may knowthat there's a group of businesses in
the UK, which are quite fast growing,that are opening stores and tend
to all open around the same areas.
Mm-hmm.
So you see one of them openand you think, oh, maybe we
should be looking at that area.
and we are one of those.
So by getting us in, yeah, exactly.
(35:07):
That it's likely to draw in both customersand other high quality retailers.
And so they want us to come in.
There's also a whole load ofproblems of growing and how you
manage it and that sort of thing.
So it's not all big
easier when you know the landlord.
(35:28):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Maybe go above your 30K budgetthen if it's if you gave some,
Well, yeah, they do tend to want allsorts of different certificates and
things, which we've not tended to doin the past, so just put the cost up.
Amazing, well thank you so much.
And do you wanna just finish thisoff by telling people where they can
find out more about Bird & Blend?
(35:48):
Yeah, so online we'rea birdandblendtea.com.
To be honest, we've now got shopsin pretty much all of the major
retail destinations of the UK
But if you search for us on there,it's got the map with all of them.
And we're on all of the socialmedias and all of that sort of thing.
And occasionally I'm now onthem, although as you'll, by
the way, I've just referred to.
(36:10):
Thank you so much for tuning in.
Wasn't that a fabulous session?
I really enjoyed finding outmore about their journey.
Of course I did.
As I said, I am a fan, can't deny it.
And I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you have a moment to rate andreview the podcast, you can rate and
review it in Apple Podcasts, or youcan rate it within the Spotify app.
That would be hugely helpful to us.
(36:31):
And of course, if you like, followor subscribe, depending on which
platform you listen on, you'llbe the first to know about each
new episode happening every week.
See you next time.
I am not ashamed to say that today'sguest is the co-founder of one of my
(00:03):
very favorite companies, Bird & Blend.
Started on a market stall sellingtea and tea drinks, and they have
grown to a chain of nationwide shops.
Including one in Borough Market, which ismy favorite place to go and hang out and
buy myself some more new delicious tea.
In fact, it's a long running joke in myfamily about how much I love Bird & Blend.
(00:26):
So when they found out I'd invitedMike Turner, the co-founder, to be on
stage with me at Retail ROAR this year.
They asked me, "Is this for businessor for personal reasons?" And
the answer is in honesty, both.
I'm a huge fan, so I've gotto be a big fan girl all the
way through this interview.
But I also think that they've builta phenomenal business and really
(00:48):
nailed their marketing, their customerloyalty, as well as their delicious tea.
So we've got a replay fromRetail ROAR with Mike Turner,
co-founder of Bird & Blend.
Enjoy.
Welcome to the Resilient Retail GamePlan, a podcast for anyone wanting to
start, grow or scale a profitable creativeproduct business with me, Catherine Erdly.
(01:14):
The Resilient Retail Game Plan isa podcast dedicated to one thing,
breaking down the concepts and toolsthat I've gathered from 20 years in
the retail industry and showing youhow you can use them in your business.
This is the real nuts and bolts ofrunning a successful product business,
broken down in an easy, accessible way.
This is not a podcast about learninghow to make your business look good.
(01:38):
It's the tools and techniques that willmake you and your business feel good.
Confidently plan, launch, and manageyour products, and feel in control of
your sales numbers and cash flow to helpyou build a resilient retail business.
Mike, thank you so much forjoining me on Retail ROAR.
(02:00):
It's an absolute pleasureto have you with us.
Do you want to start us off by tellingus about yourself and your business?
Yeah, of course.
Well, it's a pleasureto be here, catherine.
So I'm Mike, as you said.
I am one of two foundersof Bird & Blend Tea.
So we are a tea mixology companybased down here in Brighton
where I'm sat in our warehouse,which ising just down the coast.
(02:22):
A nd we create amazing blends of tea.
And then we retail them directly toour customers, both through stores.
So we've got 25 stores dotted aroundthe country as well as online.
But I guess our point of differenceis that we're really about experience.
Mm-hmm.
So whether that's for our customers,giving them fantastic experiences, but
the tees, some of which you can see behindme are just a kind of vessel for us to
(02:46):
give a great customer experience to.
Mm-hmm.
Or for our teams.
Us trying to give them a fantastic kindof experience as a place to work, which
was kind of in our founding principles.
Amazing.
And I should say out myself asa super fan of Bird & Blend Tea.
So if you've not tried Bird & Beaand you're watching this, then
I highly, highly recommend it.
I go to your Borough store quite often.
I can say it's a great example ofa really nice experience to go into
(03:10):
that store, and I think tea obviouslylends itself to that really well.
It does.
Yeah it's a perfect, it's a perfectproduct for doing it, really.
Yeah , absolutely.
And I think it's not to go off on toomuch of a tangent, but it's one of
my bug bears is that people alwaystalk about experiential retail.
It's one of the things that whenyou look into retail trends,
(03:30):
people often talk about that.
Particularly people were puttingall kinds of gimmicks into stores
because they were like, "oh, thisis experiential." And I saw all
kinds of weird and wonderful things.
But actually going into a store andsomebody offering you a really nice
sample of tea is actually, thatto me is great experiential retail
because it's genuinely, it's leadingyou towards a purchase decision,
(03:52):
but it's also just very pleasant.
And I think it fits so much more intothe ethos of what, you know, experiential
retail's really supposed to all be about.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, my, my backgroundpre Bird & Blend was I was in
hospitality, I worked in restaurantsand bars and that sort of thing.
Although I did work in Summerfieldas a kid for anyone who remembers
(04:12):
Summerfield as a company.
But that was my only retail experience.
And really what we do at Bird & Blendis closer to hospitality than retail.
I think we look to give customers agreat experience to make them smile.
Hopefully they buy the productas a kind of souvenir of that.
I think that's kind of where wediffer a little bit to a lot of the
companies who are kind of shops andthey're trying to make it experiential.
(04:34):
Mm.
We've kind of started with that actually.
It's about the customer having a greattime and then maybe they'll buy something
as to remind them of that great time.
Same as you would do in a restaurant.
Yeah, yeah.
That's really interesting.
So let's go back to the early days then.
So can you tell us a bit about howyou got started with it and how
you brought your vision to life?
(04:54):
Yeah, sure.
So Krisi, my co-founderand I, we met at uni.
And both of us were kindof passionate young people.
We wanted to change the world, and Ithink we met at a time where we were
going through a kind of journey ofrealizing what that could look like.
I'd always assumed I'd end up in kind ofNGOs or charity or something like that.
But it's also, I guess, that time whereyou're starting to work more hours and
(05:15):
you're starting to realize the impactthat working places has on your life.
And both of us have kind of got alittle bit sick of working places,
making suggestions and workinghard and being told by management
to get back in your box, you know?
And it made us realize that actuallyit was all of this untapped potential
that businesses can have a huge impacton the team members' lives and as well
(05:36):
as a huge impact on the world, whichis kind of what we'd wanted to do.
So we both kind of moved to this thinkingof actually starting a business could
be our way of changing the world.
Mm-hmm.
The next question waskind of what we should do?
And we spent a good couple of yearskind of having decided we wanted
to do something but not sure what,and we'd have different ideas and
(05:56):
buy the domain and start tryingto figure out how it would work.
And none of it reallyfelt like it would bite.
In the meantime, Krisi kindof fell into the tea industry.
And pretty quickly said, I think thatthis could be something, I think that
this is an industry that's a bit stale.
Mm-hmm.
And if you compare it to coffee,which I guess this would've
(06:19):
been around 2010, 2011, 2012.
Mm-hmm.
So kind of Starbucks were verymuch on the scene, but maybe we
hadn't had that next wave of it.
So she was kinda saying, well look, youknow, Starbucks had done this with coffee.
There's something in doingthe same thing with tea.
I said, nah, I don't think that'll happen.
When you kind of looked into it,the loads of much cleverer and
(06:43):
better funded people than us whohad given it a try and not worked.
So I said, I don't think that's the one.
And convinced her to moveto Canada and go ski.
And I kind of said, let's go, let's go skifor a few years whilst we figure it out.
So we went out, livedin a town called Ferny.
Krisi went back into the teaindustry out there and I kind
of saw what she was saying.
(07:05):
Could work in the UK, over on theother side of Atlantic, they tend to
be a year or so ahead, don't they?
Mm-hmm.
And I can remember one day going toa McDonald's and getting a cup of
tea at the drive-through and, listingout like seven different types.
I'm thinking Christ, like in theUK if you ask for a cup of tea
at McDonald's, you're not gettingoffered all these different things.
Yeah, and then having a tea lattein a place that she worked at
(07:26):
and it being beautifully servedand just being delicious and me
thinking, yeah, this could work.
We decided, let's give it a whirl.
The Olympics were on, there was no work inthe town we were in spring, so we decided
we'd come back for spring see if itworks, and either go back there or stay.
And I'm still here 12 years later.
So you started selling atmarkets, is that correct?
(07:48):
Yeah, so we came back and we booked ourfirst market six weeks after landing.
And we were quite, you know, looking backit all sounds very clever at the time.
It didn't feel it.
We wanted to know if people would buy,at the time, these drinks from us.
Yeah, so we had six weeksto create a business.
We had the name, but that's about it.
So create blends andall that sort of thing.
(08:08):
We went to market startedand people were interested.
And then through that spring wehad a whole load of different ones
and we kind of adapted and changeduntil come the end of the spring.
We were pretty sure we hadsomething which could work.
It was then a case of actuallylet's try and make it work.
And over that period, yeah, I carried on.
Do markets.
Krisi would work on all the kind ofclever side, like digital and that sort of
(08:29):
thing, and it kind of all went from there.
So it started like as physical in termsof the markets and meeting people.
And so it started like as the drinks,like you say, it was serving tea
drinks and then people wanted tobuy the tea to then make a home.
Is that how it began?
That's exactly it.
So the drinks were the initial idea.
And then we created, I think we had abouteight blends or so, which we created
(08:52):
as ingredients for the drinks really.
But very, very quickly we realized thatpeople were more interested in the blends.
Right.
But the blends.
You could post out.
Yeah.
So worked online.
But if doing a market, it's alot easier to set sell blends
that you've packed at home, yeah.
Than go and set up and deal withall the food hygiene issues and
(09:14):
making drinks and met a higher.
Unit price.
So in every way theblends are a better move.
So over time, most blends grew outand to the point where I stopped
doing the drinks in the markets,I would just do the blends.
And now where we do the drinks wedo have the drinks in the stores for
those who have been in our stores.
All do take away drinks, a coupleus of seating, but we don't
do food or anything like that.
(09:34):
But the drinks are really betterto showcase what you can do.
The blend so you can make amazingice tea cocktails or whatever it is.
So yeah, we started very much physically,but we were also kind of omnichannel
from the start before that was a thing.
So because we were interested inwhether we could create customers
(09:55):
who are interested in doing it, Iwas just as concerned about my bit of
paper with people's email addresseson as I was about the the money
that I would take home each day.
And we were just as interested in howwe could, but the business model was
go to a market, try and have a greatconversation with someone and get
(10:16):
'em to buy something and hopefullythey'll keep reordering online.
Frankly, that's still the business model.
We just swap out markets for shops.
Everything is exactlythe same as about them.
The customer experience, everythingwas learned over that period.
So yes, we were physical first intheory, but we were kind of omnichannel
(10:36):
from the very beginning, the divisionof where Krisi and I, I guess,
enjoyed, were interested, developedsome level of skill was she did sit
in that digital side and I did sitin that physical side quite neatly.
Right, got you.
That makes a lot of sense.
So you'll see, and I think this is areally important point because I had
this conversation a lot with peoplewho maybe they run and say, for
(10:59):
example, an independent retailer andthat's their main source of income.
Or they do a lot of events, and I'malways pushing this idea of using
your events or your in-person elementto obtain customers for the digital
side, but it sounds like that'sexactly what you guys were aiming for.
And I love that you said that youwere as concerned about the number
of names on the paper that you wereusing to collect people's email
(11:20):
addresses than you were from the sales.
Because it's not about sales,it's about customers, right?
Yes.
Yeah, It is about creatingthat community of people.
So yeah, because we knew that, you know.
Tea is a low selling point going,doing a market you're never gonna
come back with huge amounts of money.
You might just about cover your costs,so knew from there that the only way
(11:44):
it could work was if we were winningcustomers there, that we turned into
customers who would keep on buyingfrom us over a number of years.
Yes, over time I've started to hearphrases like lifetime value and
understand, you know, marketing and thatsort of thing, and realize how what we
were doing fits into those clever bits.
But yeah, from the verybeginning it was all about that.
And I totally agree.
You know, events same.
We would go and do, we used to doGlastonbury for years and Doby festivals,
(12:06):
and it was the same thing at Glastonbury.
We might have been serving ice teasrather than the packs in general.
Yeah.
But again, it was those emailaddresses that we were in that we
were interested in getting really.
Yeah.
That be a good time.
Because I presume that tea is quitean interesting one in terms of people
are quite loyal once they're init, but it maybe takes a little bit
more to get them to overcome theirbuilt-in loyalty, do you think?
(12:30):
Or do you think people arequite fickle with their tea?
Both.
So the teas which we do are thingslike, what are some examples behind me?
Candy floss, marscapone, sourcherry, cherry baked well.
So if you can see some of them,they're not kind of your normal
tea so we are not doing straightdarling and that sort of thing.
Yeah.
(12:50):
So we are not competing with peoplewho are drinking normal teas.
So to speak, right?
Which in some ways is a challenge.
You know, no one is shopping fora rhubarb and custard tea, right?
Mm-hmm.
So we need to kind of stop them and tryand encourage them that they do want that.
Now, the great thing isthat if we do do that.
(13:12):
Because it's unique to us.
Mm. We don't kind of open theireyes to the whole world of tea.
We kind of open theireyes to Bird & Blend.
Yeah.
and I learned very quickly on thosemarkets that our best customers were
often the people when I first engaged withthem said, "oh, I don't like tea." Yeah.
'cause then if we got them to likethe little sample I gave them,
and again, this is still exactlythe same outside the stores.
(13:34):
Our teams are stick withtray and get samples.
If they like that sample, theydon't think, oh, I like tea.
They think, "Hmm. Oh, I likeBird & Blends tea." Mm-hmm.
And then they stick with us.
Now there are also a segment ofcustomers who love the world of tea.
Yeah.
And they love trying a first type, butthey also love trying, you know, different
(13:55):
things which can be done with flavoringand blends and that sort of thing.
They're very fickle.
We have such a range thatwe love them as well.
I was thinking, I think I fitinto that second category.
But I'm, well, maybe I'm fickle.
I dunno, who can say?
But it's interesting about the blends.
Can we touch on that briefly?
Because did you, eitherof you have a background?
Well, you said that Krisi didhave a tea background, so was
(14:17):
she able to create the blends?
Because that's gotta be a skillin itself to actually create.
How did you even comeup with the first six?
Or how did you evenfigure out, right, yeah.
We can blend this in a waythat's consistent and we can send
something out that people aregonna get the same results at home.
Or was that a steeplearning curve in itself?
It was, yeah.
So we knew that we wanted 'em to bedifferent because at first they were
(14:39):
starting off kind of as ingredients.
Yeah.
So like two examples, which I thinkabout up there, actually, Mojitea
and Strawberry Lemonade have beenwith us since the very beginning.
So Mojitea is a green tea oflime and peppermint, Strawberry
Lemonade is a really fruity tea.
Both of those were kind ofenvisaged as an iced tea.
So an alcohol free mojito,a really refreshing drink.
And a sort of nice sweetalternative to whatever sweet
(15:02):
brand you wanna stick in there.
Yeah, so those ones, it was reallyeasy 'cause we initially, 'cause we
started off with the kind of conceptof the ice drink and worked back
what the ingredient for it would be.
Mm-hmm.
Now you're right that actuallyit can get quite complicated.
And we were obsessed withthe whole experience.
So for us, it wasn't justabout that end product, it was
(15:23):
what does the blend look like?
What does it smell like?
As well as what it tastes like.
And that was quite uniquewith us at the time.
And as we went round trying to find peoplewho could help us with the blending, we
kind of had every door closed in our facebecause it went against these kind of
rules of tea and rules of blending where,you know, the rule number one is every cup
in a batch has to taste exactly the same.
(15:44):
Right.
I see.
Well, if we take Mojitea, which is abrilliant, is a really good example
actually, because I had quite a bigargument with one of our suppliers
in the very early days 'causewe put big chunks of lime in it.
Yeah, and obviously every cupdoesn't have a chunk of lime in it.
So some cups will taste different.
But we think it lookscool when you open it.
It makes it so it really does breakthe kind of rules of blending,
(16:04):
but for us that kind of, oh, it'sgot big chunks in it and stuff.
It's eye catching.
It's part of the experience was so key.
Mm-hmm, I see.
And obviously you've got a huge range now.
I mean that what you have there is, Iknow, just a fraction of what you've got.
Does it get easier or harder to comeup with new ideas as you go along?
Well, that's a good question.
Both, I feel like I'm saying both fornot answering any of your questions.
(16:26):
I'm dodging all of that.
The reason it gets easieris over time a team grows.
So initially it was meand Krisi doing all of it.
And a lot, sometimes it'dbe really random stuff.
You know, we might clearly we'reinto food, you're going into food
markets, you meet interested peopleand try trying interesting things.
And sometimes you'd thinkthat could work as a tea.
(16:48):
Yeah.
And you'd come back andyou'd figure it out and.
I didn't quite answeryour previous question.
Yeah sometimes it's reallyhard to do that, but over time
you figure out how to do it.
Yeah.
Because ingredients, which when you stick'em in water, don't release the flavor
they have when you just taste them.
So you have to figure out alldifferent things, make them smell and
look, and there's quite a lot to it.
We would also do collections.
So I referenced Rhubarb and Custardbefore we actually launched that
(17:10):
as part of a sweets collection.
So we had Rhubarb andCustard, Lemon Sherbert.
Oh God, what else?
Cherry Lips for a littlegroup of them within that one.
Yeah so you'd have thesekind of different ideas.
Now you're right.
Over time we've probably created300, 400 different blends by now.
Mm-hmm.
So it gets quite hard tocome up with different ideas.
But what we have now is we have awhole team, so we have about 230
(17:33):
people in the business at the moment.
Mm-hmm.
Our teams are hugely passionate,smart, unique individuals who are
pretty bought into what we're doingand are overflowing with ideas.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, some of our most recentblends are ideas which have come
from team members in the stores.
We have a kind of digital suggestionsbox where they could submit them.
(17:55):
We now have a product team, so actuallyKrisi's not involved day to day anymore.
We kind of went from a point of me andKrisi creating the blends together to
then Krisi really became the tea expertand really knew what she was doing
and drove the creative vision forward.
Then over the last couple ofyears she's taken a back seat.
But what she's developed isa product team who've worked
with her over a period of time.
Mm-hmm, yeah.
And they're overflowing with ideas,so in some ways it gets easier
(18:17):
'cause we've got fresh ideas comingfrom yeah, not just from a product
team itself, but this resource ofteam members around the business.
Yes.
Yes, totally.
And you presumably also can recycleafter a certain amount of time.
If you've had things that limited edition,you can bring some of those back as well.
And yeah.
And the customers like that.
And that's always actually beenpart of the business model.
So a couple of our biggestteas are exactly that spice
(18:41):
pumpkin pie is a Halloween tea.
We do, and we've done thatsince the very beginning.
You know, we were in veryinfluenced by North America.
Yes.
And that one we really kind of wentfor that creme effect of bring it back.
And it used to be day one, it wasa biggest sales day of the year.
Now it's become a smallerpart of that mix actually.
But yeah, so we will recycle andthen there are certain ones which
everyone has just forgotten about.
(19:01):
We bring back, we do vote back.
So yes you can recycle them.
The other bit is youcan get clever with it.
So we have a tea coming out thisyear, which is the first time
it's ever kind of following one ofthose trend reports, and you know.
Mm-hmm.
Now the suppliers will send us thosereports where they say, here are some
ingredients which we think are gonna bereally popular over the next 18 months.
And for the first time, we've actuallylooked at one of them as an ingredient.
(19:22):
And then we thought,we've never heard of that?
And that sounds really cool.
Actually, it was literallysounds really cool.
I was like, that name would, I don'twanna say what it's, but you could
do some cool rhyming things with it.
Yeah, yeah.
And there's a beautiful story whichfits in and that sort of thing, as
well as it being a cool, new thing.
And we've always wanted tointroduce new things so you can
start to be a bit cleverer withit, rather than just two kids.
(19:43):
Yeah, mixing stuff togetherfor a bedroom, you know.
You've got a bit more, a fewmore resources behind you.
That's it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think I live in hope of, youhad a limited edition, a lump of
coal tea, which was both smokyand spicy, which is my favorite.
I always just thought it wasthe best tea I've ever had, but
yeah, I could totally see that.
It's like, sucks you in than your,then you've got your vote backs.
(20:04):
And I mean, I do think, you know,from a customer perspective, you
do a very good job of making itfeel like you're kind of part of a
club almost when you buy from you.
You know, like you'vegot your secret website.
If you've bought before yousell it to the email list.
I mean, 'cause of what I do, I'm alwayslooking at my experience as a customer
and I was like, that's really smart.
So you can only access it if you're onthe mailing list, which is brilliant.
(20:26):
Not even just 'causeyou're on the mail list.
Actually, there's a couple ofhoop you need to have jumped into.
Oh, now I feel even, even more privileged.
But you're right.
And there's that, we've got a group calledBrew Society, which is it's dedicated
customers, but it's also a Facebook groupwhich has 7,000-8,000 members on it.
And they're talking about it all the time.
And it's these kind of unlockingdifferent communities and things.
(20:48):
And you're right.
I think one of our things is where alot of companies try and be really cool.
We had a competitor who used tokind of go into their shops and
it was a bit like a nightclub.
They'd almost be looking downon you, leaning into that
coffee culture thing actually.
Where you go into a trendy coffee shopand they sort of spit at you 'cause
you don't know exactly what you want.
(21:09):
Whereas we've always been the opposite.
Like, "Hello, come and talk tous." And I think you're right, it
does create that kind of communityof very unique people or weirdos,
depending on how you wanna put it.
But I mean that in themost positive sense.
It's such, yeah, it'ssuch an interesting one.
And I think often it also, when wethink about loyalty, we often think
(21:32):
about it being to do with discountsand money off, et cetera, et cetera.
But actually, like you say like thatunlocking different levels of access.
People love feeling like an insider orlike they love that kind of, that access.
And I think people often overlookhow powerful that can be really.
Yeah , and it's great for us 'causeit gives forum to those people to talk
(21:52):
to us, to tell 'em what they like.
Advent calendar is a case in point.
So our Advent calendars oursingle biggest products of a year.
And last year, we made some changes to itwhich impacted the quality of the product.
We were trying to do things in a quitean environmentally as environmentally
friendly slash least environmentallyharmful, however you wanna put it.
In any way as possible, we made somechanges to try and support that.
(22:14):
And we got a lot of feedback thatactually people didn't like the changes.
Well, having that feedback containedamongst our super passionate fans.
Sometimes can be a bit overwhelming'cause everyone jumps in
and gives their two pence.
But equally it captures it.
It lets them feed in and then whenwe go back and say, "well look,
here's some changes we've made."
Mm-hmm.
Off the back of it, people feel includedand that feel include included is
(22:35):
such a key thing that runs through thebusiness, that it's all about community.
Mm-hmm.
You know, that runs through everything.
Even our name actually wascame from the community.
We rebranded and the name wechose was based on responses
to a survey from our customers.
Oh, okay.
We funded ourselves through crowdfunding,so we have 1800 of our most loyal
customers are owners in the business.
(22:56):
So that kind of community, bitof people kind of pitching in and
giving their ideas and stuff playsinto every aspect of the business.
That's really fascinating.
Can you tell me a little bitmore about the crowdfunders?
So how did that work or when was that?
Was that sort of a certain pointwhere you felt like you needed
more capital to grow and youdecided to go out to the community?
Yeah, so we've done it twice.
(23:17):
And that's the onlymoney that we've raised.
For a long time, me and Chrisy started itwhen we were 21, 22, something like that.
And we had a very long-term vision forthe company, so we never wanted to bring
in kind of all that institutional money.
Mm-hmm.
And be forced down the pathof grow, grow, grow, sell.
But we got to three stores,or just without any funding,
(23:37):
just reinvesting profits.
Was the main bit.
We did some kind of clever stuff with cashadvances when they were first coming out.
Mm-hmm.
Basically we had no money to start with.
And so when you've got no money,you learn how to bootstrap.
Yeah.
And then when people say, it stillis in us now, you know, I we had 5K
was what we started the business on.
Then when we opened our firststore, we got a 25K loan
(23:58):
through the startup loan scheme.
So I had to do everything ourselves.
Yeah, that still goes in now.
That I was talking to someone theother day who spends a quarter
million on my shop, fitouts.
We're still doing ours for like30K because I've still got that
thing of, well, I could putthat up so I'm not paying to.
So we were able to get to threestores without needing any funding.
We then kind of werewondering what to do next.
(24:21):
Felt like there was hugepotential in what we were doing.
And so we're thinking, well,maybe we should raise some funds.
And we started talking tosome of the different bits.
But we have this fear of grownupscoming and telling us what to do.
We didn't want that.
That was, one of our reasons for startingit was to go and do our own thing.
Yeah, and crowdfunding waskind of starting to be a thing.
(24:41):
Mm-hmm.
I guess BrewDog had kind of brokenthrough a bit and we kind of, I've
always been kind of interested inthat sort of, I'm just interested
in businesses and how they operate.
So I was kind of aware of it and Ithought this could work really well.
And, but actually the big bitfor me was how we could bring
the team on board through it.
Mm-hmm.
So I was actually in Bristol samplingand I can remember the moment that I
(25:03):
gave someone a sample and there's alittle bit of a kind, a spiel where you
introduce who we are and the guy said,well, you're not an independent then.
And I was like, oh, what do you mean?
He was like well, three stores,that's not an independent.
And I was thinking, well, I mean,I'm the owner and I'm sitting
with my serving tray, and ititfeels pretty independent to me.
It kind of clicked for what if everymember of our team could have that?
(25:26):
Thought in that moment.
Mm-hmm.
So that was actually thebiggest bit we cr about.
It was like, this is a way that we cangive our team shares in a meaningful way.
But it also went alongwith, let's bring it in.
Now, don't get me wrong, we had some, wewere lucky enough that over those first
few years, I think because we were young.
There were a few people we metand they were kind of like,
we like what we're doing.
Come and talk to, we'llgive you some advice.
(25:47):
And actually our biggestinvestor is exactly that.
He was a judge on a like Dragon'sDen panel for a three grand grant.
Oh wow.
And we went in and he said, I love it.
That evening he phoned us and said,I would love to invest a and I
don't wanna sound, might be mad.
And we're like, yeah, that ismad, but let's stay in touch.
And he's kind of being an advisor.
And then when we got to a point where wesaid we think we should raise some funds.
(26:10):
He said, "well, actually I'd quitelike to get involved." And there's
three or four people who havesimilar, we've met them through
doing this, or they've been customersor whatever and have put in money.
But it then allowed us topitch out to our customers.
Exactly the same as anyother marketing campaign.
It's not about the products, it'sabout joining in with what we're doing.
In 2017 we did that and we raisedabout 350,000 280 people, I think.
(26:36):
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Um, that got us up to about seven stores.
So in 2021, we did it again.
And we raised about a million thattime from, for about a 1500 investors
in that round who all came on board.
And exactly the same thing,us saying, come and join us.
We're doing this, we thinkit's got big potential.
(26:56):
But we're not planning onsaying we're gonna sell in three
years or anything like that.
As everyone else does and peopleseem to want to join the ride.
I see.
No, that makes total sense.
And I'm sure these are all yourmost loyal customers as well, right.
For sure.
Yeah, yeah.
So I, I just wanna touch on stores,because that's obviously been a big part
of it and you've been on a store opening.
(27:18):
So if I just get the timelineright, so 2021, you were at
seven stores, is that right?
Yeah.
About that.
And now you are 20.
You're 25.
I see, I'm even out date.
'Cause I thought it was 23.
But you must have opened twoin the last couple of months.
In the final quarter before Christmas,we had a push to open a few.
(27:41):
Yeah, we'll now have alittle bit of a karma period.
Although there's a couplewhich are in the works, but.
Right.
Yeah, yeah.
We did seven last year.
Oh, wow.
Wow.
That's a lot in a year.
And I wanted to talk to you, you knowone of the reasons, obviously I'm, in
fact I'm a big fan, is that you know,you've really embraced bricks and
mortars stores as part of your model.
Now, from everything you'vesaid, I completely understand
why, because it's so integral.
(28:02):
But I'd love to just hear from you,why do you think physical stores
still have such an important roleto play in today's retail world?
Yeah, well for me it goes backto that kind of human experience.
That people want to have aconnection and they want to
do something or see something.
(28:23):
Mm-hmm, and that can beright from, you know.
I love walking my dog up in thesouth downs above where you can see
the view of sea and the countrysideand all that sort of thing.
But that also can mean going into town andexperiencing, new products or cocktails
or food or anything, which is kind of anexperience that makes you feel something.
(28:43):
Now, while some of thatis replicatable digitally.
Yeah.
And you know, clearly, in fact we havelots of customers and team members who
are big gamers and that sort of thing,and they build these communities online.
Yeah.
I sound like an old person'cause I've never been a gamer.
I don't really understand it.
But it's the same connection, right?
Yeah.
But it, but it's not for everybody.
A lot of people, myself included,need that kind of that physical.
(29:06):
Now, I think this is where peoplekind of, who talk about the death
of a high street are kind ofmissing what's actually happening.
There's an increased need as webecome more digital and we work from
home and jobs become a lot more,you know, talk screen and using
ChatGPT and all that sort of thing.
To have moments where we stop and justthink, I'm gonna use cocktail as another
example because I happens to go to areally good cocktail bar the other day.
(29:27):
So it's in my head, the way that has beenskillfully crafted and the glass that it's
in and a beautiful environment I'm in.
And the theater of making it isa moment in itself which couldn't
have been repeated online.
Mm-hmm.
And increasingly I think people wantto go when they want to go into town.
It's for that.
It's to go and dwelland to have a nice time.
(29:48):
Mm-hmm.
Now I do see that what they are lesslikely to want to do is when they
need, I've just moved house, so I need,I need to buy a tool the other day.
Yeah, do I want to go to theiron mongers and go and get the?
Actually that day I did because I wantedit straight away and it was annoying that.
But you know, generally that kindof thing you need, which is the
(30:09):
traditional thing of business.
Find a need you can fulfill.
You can get online in general.
You can buy your clothesonline and that sort of thing.
But I think it's where it's a pleasure.
Mm mm-hmm.
And that will continue to have a place.
Actually clothes is a really badexample there 'cause for a lot of people
it's because I hate clothes shopping.
(30:29):
I was just gonna, I was thinkingthat to myself that just,
I just said something about how youfeel about clothes shopping because
there's a lot people who put that under.
Stresses me out in seconds.
Um, sadly, a. A company calledStitch Fix who used to just send
me boxes with clothes have gone.
So I now have to think about it again, butfor a lot of people they love that, right?
(30:50):
Yeah and so going in and the wholeexperience having sofas and you
know, and that's all part, andthat's what you're really paying for.
Yeah.
And I think that's the bitwhich people are missing.
But you can't just have a shop,which is a rail of cloves or mm-hmm.
Or shelves of tea or whatever it is,which people can just get online.
Because if it's about convenience.
It's now Amazon will deliver same day.
(31:10):
Yeah.
You're not gonna win on convenienceif it's that human thing that is not
replicatable in the same way online.
And so I think really leaning intothat and you see that through what
we do, but the stores are reallyjust created a spaces for people
to talk and to have a nice time.
And our thing has always been, it doesn'teven matter if they buy something,
(31:30):
if they come and have a nice time.
That's what it's about there.
Put into places.
We're not in any shoppingcenters at the moment.
And that's because we put ourselvesin place where people are going to
dwell and they're going to cafes andthey're going to look at art galleries,
and we hope that they drift into ourplace as part of that experience.
Yes, that makes total sense.
You know, there's such a symbioticrelationship as well between
online and bricks and mortar.
(31:52):
So for example, if you're opening in a newmarket, I'm sure that also opens up more
web sales in that market as well, right?
Because the people that cameto the store and bought are now
coming back and buying again.
And are you still very much seeing thestores as almost like the channel to.
get people, to get their detailsand get also be able to sell to them
online or get them to buy online.
(32:14):
For sure.
The stores are ourbiggest marketing channel.
Our business model has alwaysbeen starting off with markets.
Go do market, introducecustomers to what we do.
Ideally, they'll keepshopping with us online.
The stores are exactly the same thing of.
Hopefully people come intothe stores like what we do.
And will shop with us online.
Traditionally my attitude was thatas long as the store broke beven.
(32:35):
I t was worth doing because itwas driving customers to us.
All of our stores do actually makemoney, but I would say that I would
rather put money into retail thaninto google or Facebook's hands.
Mm. So I would actually be comfortablewith opening a store at a loss
and treating it as marketing.
So a hundred percent they're totallycombined and I think, again, it's
(32:55):
really easy to just say, oh, omnichannelis about collecting email addresses.
Or equally, it's really easy tosay, it's really complicated.
Our till system, our online systemstill isn't connected together.
Oh really?
They're different systems.
We've tried three times to connect itand yet I would say that our joined up
experiences, you know, as a customeris better than most companies which
(33:17):
have really, really clever systemsbecause it goes from the very heart of
what our team are doing in the storesthat they're not jealous of online for
getting the sales or anything like that.
They see it all as one big thing.
Yeah, that makes total sense.
Thank you so much.
I've really enjoyed our conversationand I think it's just fascinating and
I love the fact that you are reallypursuing that bricks and mortar expansion.
So you said there's a bit of a lull.
(33:38):
But do you have more plans formore stores in the UK then?
Oh yeah.
Definitely more stores in the UK.
It's more a lull of a few months.
I think this year we'lldo another six or seven.
Mm-hmm.
We're growing pretty fast and we've notgot any intentions to stop doing that.
Yes so I think it is a funnyone 'cause I always said 24
was the number that we needed.
And we've now just got over that.
(33:59):
So we are trying new marketsand that sort of thing.
So it will kind of depend howthat goes, but we'll definitely
keep on opening for a fair while.
Is it maybe easier as theyears have gone by to get?
Because I suppose, I think oftenbusinesses well, it depends on
the landlords, but there's acertain amount of balance of power.
If you can say, we are a well-knownbrand, we'll be bringing, 'cause you are
(34:20):
almost then foot full generators, right?
Because people know the brand andthey want to come and so then yeah.
There's definitely a tippingpoint where, your second shop
is your hardest one to get.
Cause your first one, the landlord,they know you are gonna be there and
it'll probably work too suddenly.
So that took some convincing,but now you're totally right.
And actually we've had a couple wherewe've been able to get quite significant
(34:45):
incentives where that's rent free orcapital contributions from a landlord
for exactly that reason, but may knowthat there's a group of businesses in
the UK, which are quite fast growing,that are opening stores and tend
to all open around the same areas.
Mm-hmm.
So you see one of them openand you think, oh, maybe we
should be looking at that area.
and we are one of those.
So by getting us in, yeah, exactly.
(35:07):
That it's likely to draw in both customersand other high quality retailers.
And so they want us to come in.
There's also a whole load ofproblems of growing and how you
manage it and that sort of thing.
So it's not all big
easier when you know the landlord.
(35:28):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Maybe go above your 30K budgetthen if it's if you gave some,
Well, yeah, they do tend to want allsorts of different certificates and
things, which we've not tended to doin the past, so just put the cost up.
Amazing, well thank you so much.
And do you wanna just finish thisoff by telling people where they can
find out more about Bird & Blend?
(35:48):
Yeah, so online we'rea birdandblendtea.com.
To be honest, we've now got shopsin pretty much all of the major
retail destinations of the UK
But if you search for us on there,it's got the map with all of them.
And we're on all of the socialmedias and all of that sort of thing.
And occasionally I'm now onthem, although as you'll, by
the way, I've just referred to.
(36:10):
Thank you so much for tuning in.
Wasn't that a fabulous session?
I really enjoyed finding outmore about their journey.
Of course I did.
As I said, I am a fan, can't deny it.
And I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you have a moment to rate andreview the podcast, you can rate and
review it in Apple Podcasts, or youcan rate it within the Spotify app.
That would be hugely helpful to us.
(36:31):
And of course, if you like, followor subscribe, depending on which
platform you listen on, you'llbe the first to know about each
new episode happening every week.
See you next time.
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Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.