#12WeeksToPeak #salestraining #SelfImprovement
I'm going solo today to start year 13 of The Sales Podcast, episode 718.
I updated an old blog post about "jabbing hard-charging" prospects to 'flip the script' in sales.
Our job in sales is to disqualify prospects, engage them effectively, and ask the right questions.
I share insights from my extensive experience in sales, highlighting the need for curiosity and understanding the prospect's needs.
I had a little mishap with my standing desk...and then get into sales techniques, focusing on how to start the conversation in sales and handle unexpected challenges.
Improve your sales process with these insights and close more sales by having better business conversations.
Get ready for a season of growth via great sales training!
"Our job is to disqualify the prospect, not qualify."
"Your prospects are not you."
"Hearing no early is a win."
"Selling is the transference of a feeling."
"You either win or you learn."
"You prove you're different by being different."
00:00 Introduction to Flipping the Script
03:01 Understanding the Sales Process
06:02 The Importance of Disqualifying Prospects
08:54 Engaging with Prospects Effectively
12:11 The Role of Curiosity in Sales
15:00 Recognizing the Prospect's Needs
18:04 Asking the Right Questions
21:00 Using Control in Conversations
24:00 The Human Element in Sales
26:48 Final Thoughts on Sales Strategies
Get daily tips on sales, marketing, entrepreneurship...and a little Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu for free at https://wesschaeffer.com/daily
Not for the mediocre majority: Learn how I get more done in a quarter than most achieve in a decade in 12 Weeks To Peak™ https://wesschaeffer.com/12w
Connect with me:
X -- https://X.com/saleswhisperer
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LinkedIn -- http://www.linkedin.com/in/thesaleswhisperer/
#12WeeksToPeak #SalesTraining #GoalSetting #PersonalDevelopment #LifeAdvice #growthmindset
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello my friend, and welcome to the 718th episode of the sales
podcast. I'm going to say for the sales
was for your host. Today marks the beginning of
season 13. Lucky 13 maybe you know, I just
found out that if I raise the standing desk up just enough,
the fan hits my light. So I was hearing this like, what
(00:24):
the hell. But I digress.
Hey, let's talk about something I'm working on now.
I'm calling it flip the script. I made a a video.
It's a new lead magnet opt in series.
It takes you from flipping the script to my overcoming
objections, leading folks into my inner circle and my new 12
(00:48):
weeks to peak VIP, which I've decided I'm changing up and
offering that for young men. And maybe my next episode I'll
talk about why that focus but onflipping the script.
You know, I've written about this in various ways over the
(01:08):
years. You know, one was talked about
jabbing, you know, in boxing, I mean, the the foundation of of
boxing is the jab, you know, good stance in all sports,
right? Power comes from the feet.
But that jab is just you're setting up the distance, you're
setting up the timing, you're seeing which way the your
(01:28):
opponent reacts and then that sets up the combination, right,
and the knockout. And so I've written about that
approach. You know, when a prospect comes
barreling at you, how do you handle it?
How do you knock them on their heels a little bit, get them
thinking about changing their approach, right?
(01:51):
Maybe they realize, yeah, this frontal, this direct frontal
assault may not be the best way.And so obviously you got to use
words, right? So how do you flip the script?
And most, I realize most people don't understand this.
They don't do it. Most sales people, they're
nervous about the call and they spend so much time on the
(02:13):
preparation and the research because they don't know how to
jab, They don't know how to flipthe script.
They don't understand how to be different.
But all sales people will tell me, oh Wes, I'm great.
Once I get in front of a qualified prospect, I'm like way
#1 you know, your, your number one job is to get in front of a
qualified prospect, right? And B, how are you really
(02:35):
different? This is how I have worked in
dozens of industries with hundreds and even thousands of
entrepreneurs and sales people and sales managers with almost
no research on my part because the the help that I provide them
is human to human. You need to look at what your
competition does and do the opposite when that prospect
(02:58):
comes barreling in loaded for bear, right?
Tons of questions peppering you,expecting you to be this dancing
chicken, to give them free education, free consulting, free
advice so they can take that information, then go use it
against the next salesperson whocan't take control.
Of course you're going to be nervous.
It's like a never ending, you know, endless potential, you
(03:23):
know, for risk and for loss. How do you prepare for that?
But when I know how to flip the script, when I know how to take
control of the conversation, I'mnot that worried about it.
OK. And what I realized.
So, you know, since 2008, I've sold software.
Start working with Infusionsoft now.
They're called Keep. They were bought by Thrive.
(03:43):
But I've been a HubSpot partner since 2014, Entreports since
2014, Active Campaign, Convert Kit, Nimble, Pipedrive.
You know, I've had a lot of these on the CRM Sushi podcast.
But you know, I was, I was focused solely on infusion soft
for eight years, six years, 2008to 2014.
(04:05):
And those were the heydays, you know, I was selling so much.
But still to this day, people they, they want a demo, right?
And they they say, hey, yeah, tell me about your CRM.
I mean, it's like somebody saying, tell me about your home,
you know, that you're building for me.
Or tell me about your solar. Tell me about the car.
You know, I'm interested in thistruck.
I'm considering this versus that, you know, tell me about
(04:26):
it. It's, it's, it's endless.
It's never ending. The things that you could talk
about. And so do you recognize what is
going on? Because our job, like I was
saying, is to prospect, but really our job when we prospect
is to disqualify the prospect, not qualify.
Only a small percentage of people are ready, willing and
(04:47):
able to buy right now in this conversation, right now, in this
moment. And so the early partners in the
Infusionsoft days, we're all technical.
They were coders and developers.They wanted to support customers
that already had the software and they want to customize it
and supercharge it. And things that I could not do
and still can't do. It's not my world.
I was very good at using the system out-of-the-box.
(05:10):
Let's just use it the way it wasdesigned, right?
You know, why do they call, you know the, the initials for
Harley-Davidson HD, right? Because it stands for $100 and
you can't, you can't go to a store, you can't go anywhere
without spending $100 to to tweak it, to improve it, to
customize it, right? Well, that's how these guys were
treating Infusionsoft like hey, pay me $100.00 an hour, $200.00
(05:32):
an hour, pay me $100 to tweak something.
I had a Harley and all I put wassaddlebags on it.
So I like to use my stuff the way it was built.
So all these technical guys, they would, they would ask me,
how do I sell so much? And what they the mistake they
were making was thinking that the prospects were as analytical
and interested in everything as they were.
(05:53):
The reality it was and is most of the people calling to use it
were entrepreneurs, They were salespeople.
It was a tool couldn't meet their needs.
And so when they'd say, yeah, I'm, I'm interested in this CRM,
you know what? Can you tell me about it?
Now? It didn't hurt.
Oh, where's that behind? Let me grab it.
It didn't hurt that I wrote, youknow, a 600 plus page book on
(06:17):
infusion soft. So I'd say, well, you know, how
much time do you have? Because I literally wrote the
book, you know, you got 12 hours.
No. OK, let's say you don't.
You didn't write a book, you know, but somebody when they hit
you with that again, you got to flip the script.
Yeah. I'm interested in, you know,
your software. What what can you tell me about
it? Well, I can tell you a lot about
it. What would you like to know?
I mean, you know, look, I mean, don't be playing these these
(06:40):
sales games with me. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm
interested in the software. Apologize if you think I'm
coming off that way, but this stuff does a lot.
What would you like to know? Like and what I realize what I
have done, what I do have done over the years and still do.
And it's not, I don't know if I learned this like as a ploy, A
(07:01):
tactic, or I just do it, but I, I think it's just sincere.
I'm, I'm truly curious on what'sgoing on in their lives.
And I, and I thought about it like when you when friends get
together, they're excited to catch up and then, but then
eventually they tell stories. They, they stop asking questions
because I used to always say whoever asks the questions is in
control of the conversation. And that is still true.
(07:24):
But you got to make sure you don't come across like an
inquisition, right? Like the police or the FBI just
peppering them with questions because the old school trainers,
you know, never, never answer a question, you know, will never
ask a question they could say noto and never answer a question
without a question. So it's like, OK, that that's
(07:46):
not as effective anymore. All right, but there's a way to
do it. But anyway, when you get
together with old friends, right?
Oh my gosh, how are you doing? How's the wife?
How's the kids? How's the job?
How's the house? How's the dog?
Tell me, tell me, tell me. You know, they're they're
excited, like they want to know everything.
And and I do this with Prospect.Well, tell me about the CRM.
(08:07):
I'm happy to let me ask you something like what's what's
your level of experience with this?
So you can leave it at that. What I usually do those say,
what's your level of experience with this?
Like, you know, are you like wayinto it super experience?
Like you can code this stuff and, and, and make it, you know,
shake, rattle and hum on on yourown?
(08:27):
Or is it kind of like a necessary evil?
Or are you brand new to this? So I give him some choices and I
go, no, I mean, I'm, I'm not a rookie, but yeah, it's kind of a
necessary evil. Hey, no sweat.
I'm with you on that. You know, what are you using
now? And again, a lot of times they
don't want to answer because they've been abused by other
(08:48):
salespeople and they know they're going to play the cards
close to the vest. So I won't just ask.
So what are you using now? So what are you using now?
Are you moving from something you know, are you down grading?
Are you upgrading? Are you looking for more
capabilities? Or is it just, you know, sticky
notes and, and e-mail right now?Yeah, we're basically e-mail
sticky notes or yeah, we're, we're kind of growing out of our
(09:11):
current platform and, you know, kind of wondering what's out
there or yeah, we're, you know, we're down grading.
You know, we, we overbought a couple years ago, you know, our
eyes were bigger than our then our mouth or then our stomachs,
you know, whatever, it's OK, hey.
And again, hey, I hear that all the time.
It happens. No sweat.
So but by by peppering them witha few sincere, honest questions
(09:34):
and being excited about like, I love selling, I love selling
technology. I love helping people
understand, like get the claritya lot of times for the first
time ever, because people confuse things, they muddle the
waters. They don't know how to sell and
they, they emphasized the wrong thing.
You know, I learned years ago, your, your prospects are not
(09:57):
you. So that's why my early
competitors, if you will, the early partners at Infusionsoft
who were very technical, they treated all of the prospects as
being like them, technical, wanting to read the manual.
And they weren't OK. Now I got lucky in a way, right?
And that most of the customers weren't like me.
They just needed the tool. They needed to get the job done,
(10:21):
so I kept it simple. OK, so, but again, you've got to
flip the script. So when they come in, tell me
about the CRM and and you've gotto read, read the room, right?
Are they closed off? Are they curt?
Are they rude? You know, are they avoiding eye
contact or are they not turning their camera on?
And you know, and look, I've been selling over video since I
(10:44):
got started with Infusionsoft, you know, 2008 and I was, I
became really active selling it by, I don't know, middle late of
late O 9 because back then at first it was $5000 down.
I was like, I didn't really didn't see the value in
reselling that because I got in on another partner program.
So I didn't have to pay that. There's a different
(11:06):
qualification process back then.But then they lowered the price
to two grand. I'm like, OK, it's worth 2 grand
because I did the setup OK, because they, they changed the
rules. So because back then the 5K went
to them and I was just stubborn and kind of desperate, right?
I needed this stuff to work. So I was, I was dedicated.
But once they lowered the price and I could get the fee, I'm
like, OK, no sweat. I know I add value.
(11:29):
And so getting involved like that, you know, I loved it.
I love selling it. These people, they were me.
They, they were wanting to automate their lives.
They wanted to take away the redundancy, the tedious stuff,
the non profit making activities, but vital.
(11:51):
They were important things, right?
I mean, in a way everything makes you money, right?
But when you can streamline and,and eliminate data entry or, or
eliminate double entry, I mean, life just gets, gets better.
So, so I was sincerely, truly interested in helping these
people. I, I was excited about the
(12:12):
product. I was excited about the change
you could bring about in their lives.
I was excited about making the money.
I made great money. So, so how can you flip the
script on these prospects? You know, you've got to
recognize what is going on. You have to recognize your role
as a salesperson. OK, Again, your job is to
disqualify. Your job is to help the prospect
(12:36):
understand, probably for the first time ever, the the depth
and the breadth of their issue, the ramifications, the impact.
OK. And and I say for the first time
because, look, if if they had truly made a decision and
recognize everything, they wouldhave already done it.
(12:58):
You know I'm, I'm HOA president,right?
We just cut checks for two new HVAC systems for our clubhouse,
2 new heaters for our pool. We recognize the problem.
We paid to solve the problem. You know, we have 5 heaters for
our pool, one for the kiddie pool, one for the hot tub, 3 for
(13:19):
the main pool. The kiddie pool went out I guess
a while ago. We have 3 for the main pool.
One of those went out and so so I knew it was an issue with one
going out. I knew that our systems were way
old. We got lucky.
These things have have far outlived how long they should.
So we began researching this andinvestigating this.
(13:41):
We've gotten multiple bids, right?
So we were one of those, Hey, tell me about your service.
Tell me about what system you'd recommend.
Why do you recommend that one? How many times have you
installed this one? What's the customer support
like? On and on, right?
So, but literally this past weekend, so one of the air
conditioners failed about a month ago and we have a local
(14:02):
guy that we've done that did ourremodeling on our clubhouse and
we have him on a retainer for maintenance.
He he went out, tweaked something, got it working or it
failed again this past weekend. So it's like, OK, done.
So we'd already gotten quotes. So we made a choice and cutting
the checks literally right now. So, you know, I tell you that
because if they, if they haven't, if they still have the
(14:24):
problem, it means they either have not fully recognized the
extent of the problem, you know,or they have and they're in
their final decision making. So OK, are you like the third
quote they're going to get before they make a decision?
Who has put into their brains the specs, the needs, you know,
can you reverse engineer things?Maybe they're they're getting
(14:47):
quotes on the wrong configuration.
So how do you how do you dig down?
Right. So it's our job again to
disqualify these prospects, engage them.
You know, you're on the right track when you get the prospect
saying, huh, that's a good question.
Wow, never really thought of it that way, huh.
I got to give that some thought.You know, let me get back to you
(15:08):
on that. So again, our job is not to
educate them. Our job is to ask questions they
haven't thought of, then give some education, help them
understand, you know, because really since the age of the
Internet, the role of salesperson has changed.
And now with AII think it's really changing.
Our job is not so much to educate, but to confirm, to
(15:30):
validate, to help the prospect know they're making the right
decision. And we do that by the questions
that we ask. And of course, having some
insights into the the features and the benefits that the tools,
whatnot. OK, so how can you flip this
script? So it's literally being calmer.
(15:53):
It's being more inquisitive. And it's OK to ask questions
they can say no to because look,hearing no early is a win.
But just make sure you're doing it right.
It's not you're not trying to get off the phone, right?
And just go to the next. You want to make sure it's it's
something you can't handle. You want to make sure that
(16:15):
there's truly not a fit. OK, if somebody comes to me and
says, you got to teach this course in Chinese, like, OK, I
can't do it. So I mean, we're let's just end
this now. Like, I'd hate to do a big
dance, do a big RFPRFQ, you know, spend hours, days, weeks
on this thing and then say, Oh, yeah, we forgot to tell you, you
know, you have to travel to China in 60 days and give this,
(16:35):
you know, in Mandarin. I mean, I'm picking an extreme
example. You get the point, though.
Can you put these people back ontheir heels, get them thinking,
giving, giving things some thought, then accepting your
guidance, your coaching, your advice.
You're, you're steering, if you will.
(16:58):
That's how you know things are going your way.
And again, none of this is done from a manipulative standpoint.
We are persuading because it's in their benefit, it's in their
best interest to listen to us and to follow our
recommendations, OK? I know from a training
perspective, from a coaching perspective, I'm their best
(17:21):
option, OK? I believe that in my heart.
I've talked about this before, you know, Zig Ziglar talking
about, you know, be a product ofthe product and how he had one
of his guys was struggling and he told them where's your,
where's your gear? Right.
And the guy said, I haven't had the money if I had this and the
other. And he said, pull out your pad
and write yourself an order. As soon as the guy did
(17:44):
psychologically, he was now bought in.
He was literally and now psychologically bought in.
And that, that the, the thing that we sell is confidence.
You know, Zig has always said that the selling is a
transference of a feeling. That feeling is confidence.
So when somebody is just peppering you with a lot of
questions, yeah, on the one hand, you can just answer,
answer, answer. And that could be a tactic,
(18:06):
right? Because if, you know, they come
in and asking a bunch of stuff, you just calmly answer.
And then when they run out of steam, say, hey, mind if I ask
you a few questions of my own? Kind of like in jujitsu, We'll
get, we'll get new guys come in and they just, you know, they
shoot their wad, They come in full of piss and vinegar and
(18:26):
they attack. And you know, I'm 55 years old
now. I don't have the energy, the
cardio of a 25 year old. Get these big Marines coming in,
cops, firemen, 2530 years old weight lifters, you know, former
wrestlers, former football players, whatever, cross
fitters. And they, I mean, the bell rings
(18:48):
and they attack. I can't go toe to toe with these
guys, OK? So I don't, I know how to
retreat. I know how to move.
I know how to use their momentumagainst them and just subtle
little movements. They're giving it everything and
I'm just redirecting, redirecting, redirect that.
There's the grabbing, They're squeezing.
As long as if the if the hand isnot deep in the neck, there's no
(19:10):
choke there. They're pulling, they're
squeezing. Never fails. 2030 seconds tops.
I've never anybody even last a minute going at that full pace
brand new. Once they're done now I put it
on them, OK, Now I show them jiujitsu.
So it could be the same thing with your prospects, right?
So they ask a bunch of question,what's the size, what's the
(19:31):
weight? What's the warranty?
What's the, you know, shipping time on and on and on.
What's the code? What's this?
What's the material made of? Is it organic?
Is it American made? Any artificial dyes and
coloring? No, yes, no, yes, no.
OK, and you'll see them kind of give up.
You literally feel that in jiu jitsu.
I'll lay on them, but not totally smash.
(19:53):
I want them extended a little bit and not fully because the,
you know, the frame of your body, your skeletal frame can
hold the weight. I want them right in between and
I'm kind of shifting a little bit back and forth.
So there's never even and then they literally the hands
collapse. I don't know, I got them.
So the same thing in Sailor that, this, that and the other
organic USA. And you see a guy go, oh, OK,
(20:18):
they run out of steam because they're they're trying to gotcha
get you gotcha. Now you answer everything like,
huh. Now you slowly, confidently say
while you consider your next question, it'd be OK if I ask
you a couple questions. OK, so I'm, I'm letting them
think they're in charge. But the reality is I'm in
charge. I know how this game is going to
go. And they all be oh, yeah, go
(20:39):
ahead. So now I start not peppering
them, but I want to ask some deeper questions.
You know, my website, I have my frequently asked questions and
my should ask questions. The should ask questions are the
the things they don't know. They don't know.
That's how I differentiate myself from everybody else.
It's by the questions that I asked, the insight that I bring
to the table. But I can't say, hey, look,
(21:02):
look, I got a degree here, a degree here.
Look, I'm a citizen of the year over here, blah, blah, blah.
Air Force veteran. Look, they don't care.
They don't care until I asked them good questions and prove
that any of these things behind me mean anything to them in
their current situation because that's all that matters.
(21:23):
So stop trying to, you know, stroke your ego by showing off
to these prospects how much you know, OK, ask good questions
that they haven't that they don't know the answers to.
That's why I have everybody in my consulting in my 12 weeks to
peak. I have you write.
I don't even use that was beforeAI.
Don't even use AI to write, at least in this context.
(21:43):
I want you to write to get into the process of thinking and
formulating your thought and, and putting your argument
together, bolstering your stanceand internalizing that, you
know, again, it's just like jiu jitsu.
I'm showing a guy today how we move, how to set things up and
we do these warm ups and do the same warm up routine every day.
(22:06):
And it can be boring, I get it. But you know, professional
trains, you know, rookie trains.So they get it right, a
professional trains and so they can't get it wrong.
So our warmups are done for a specific reason.
And when we get into a position on this one warm up, it helps us
with sweeps, it helps us with attack, with defending attacks.
So it's both offensive and defensive.
But we, we, we practice this over and over and over again.
(22:28):
And I was showing him, so in that practice, in that
repetition, when you do it right, you now can do it without
thinking when it matters, when you're being attacked.
OK, so have you gone through this enough?
Do you know enough? Is it, is it ingrained in your
in your brain and your body and your being to engage them in a
(22:51):
calm, methodical, thought out manner?
That's how you prove you're different by being different.
So by by riding and thinking this through, that's you're
getting those repetitions in. Yes, it can be boring, but it
will pay off. I promise you.
AI does not have this humanity component to it.
(23:12):
You know, I heard something years ago, you know, electronic
music has been around for a while, right?
Decades and but they had done a study and because you would
think all this perfect music perfect timing about a lot of
people will like this. But there was something about
the the nanosecond of discrepancy of you know of drums
(23:36):
and the timing and the keyboardsand whatever guitar that made
people appreciate the music. They talk about humans you know
our faces are are not perfect mirrors.
You know, eyes are a little different, one may be a little
more closed, one may be turned up whatever the nostrils may be
a little bit different, will smile a little unevenly.
(23:57):
And those, those imperfections are what make us beautiful to
the people that love us. So the, the imperfections that
that are in your writing humanize you.
And that's where the connection comes from because at the end of
the day, you're a human selling to a human.
So put in the reps, do the writing, do the thinking, do
that deep hard work. OK, That's how you flip the
(24:19):
script. Because when you do this enough
again, it'll become ingrained. It's just deep in your in your
body, in your soul. OK, so I'll put a couple of
links in here. Like I said that the the flip
the script, you can go back and watch that or you can you can
sign in and watch that. It's basically what I covered
here. But then that'll take you if you
(24:42):
want my objection handling flashcards.
And I've had this for many years, 51 pages, but I just
updated it's like 57 pages now. But it's just a regular format,
like, you know, sheet of paper that's still all the same, you
know, one argument, an intro andthen examples of how to handle
(25:02):
it. So, you know, avail yourself of
that. I'll, I'll link directly to that
if you want to get those. And, and again, I'm not, I don't
want you to become a robot. I don't want you to memorize all
these things and think that's just it.
Memorize this and you'll be OK. The reason I give you scripts
and and objection handling tips and openers for cold calls and
stuff, again, it's not to make you a robot, but they give you
(25:25):
the confidence to step into the arena.
And just like with our jiu jitsu, you know, maybe the first
few tournaments you do, you wereamped up.
You're nervous, man. I forgot everything in the first
couple fights. But then I owe you get through.
And I was a grown ass man. You know, like I'm a white belt
though in jiu jitsu. I'm 47 years old and just forget
everything. But you got to go through that.
(25:46):
You got to flounder and fail a little bit, you know, but like
they say, you either win or you learned.
There really is no failure. So I give you the scripts so
you, you know that you have the answer, but at least a good
answer, at least something that won't make you look stupid.
And you got to go through it and, and personalize it and make
it your own. You know, the moves my 60 year
(26:06):
old instructor teaches, you know, he's whatever, 59510 a
160, 65 lbs, I'm 62235. You know, but he learned moves.
He's trained for 40 years, I've trained for eight.
We have different abilities, so I have to modify things.
So the things that I give you, the foundation of them will
always be true. You know, work around the edges,
(26:28):
customize and personalize them. OK, But you've got to enter the
arena. You got to stay sharp, do the
writing, do the calls, handle, take the objections, handle
them, gain the confidence, get the wins, get the referrals and
testimonials, get more confidence in it.
That's why I call it ABCDE. You know, I'll link to that as
(26:48):
well. But you know, a track bond,
convert, deliver in deer and it's not a pipeline, it's not a
funnel, it's not one way, it's never ending.
It's a circle. Attract, bond, convert,
delivering deer, attract, bond, convert, delivering deer.
Because when you conduct yourself differently at the
attraction phase, the bonding gets easier.
The conversion to becoming a customer gets easier.
(27:09):
It's easier now because you didn't over promise.
It's easier to delight them. That makes it easier to endear
yourself to them. Now you're back to the
attraction phase. You know, I was hanging out with
my kids and you know, since 2002, you know, I bought an
iPod. Since 2004, I've used Apple
computers. Now my family of nine, that's
all we have because Apple understands the track bond
(27:30):
convert delivering deer. You're not here to make one
sale. You're here to make 5 or 10 to
them. OK, That's, that's what you do
when you flip the script, OK, You prove you're different by
being different from the moment you open your mouth.
But back to that attraction phase.
How, how you e-mail somebody, how you leave a voicemail, how
you confirm a meeting, all of that sets the tone.
(27:55):
All of that tells the world you know are are you truly different
or not? Prove you're different by being
different. Look at what your competition
does and do the opposite right. I think Ogilvy said that many
years ago. Do that, you'll be fine.
If you need some help, hit me up.
I'll put some links in the in the description.
Thanks for watching. I'll go sell something.
Hello my friend, and welcome to the 718th episode of the sales
podcast. I'm going to say for the sales
was for your host. Today marks the beginning of
season 13. Lucky 13 maybe you know, I just
found out that if I raise the standing desk up just enough,
the fan hits my light. So I was hearing this like, what
(00:24):
the hell. But I digress.
Hey, let's talk about something I'm working on now.
I'm calling it flip the script. I made a a video.
It's a new lead magnet opt in series.
It takes you from flipping the script to my overcoming
objections, leading folks into my inner circle and my new 12
(00:48):
weeks to peak VIP, which I've decided I'm changing up and
offering that for young men. And maybe my next episode I'll
talk about why that focus but onflipping the script.
You know, I've written about this in various ways over the
(01:08):
years. You know, one was talked about
jabbing, you know, in boxing, I mean, the the foundation of of
boxing is the jab, you know, good stance in all sports,
right? Power comes from the feet.
But that jab is just you're setting up the distance, you're
setting up the timing, you're seeing which way the your
(01:28):
opponent reacts and then that sets up the combination, right,
and the knockout. And so I've written about that
approach. You know, when a prospect comes
barreling at you, how do you handle it?
How do you knock them on their heels a little bit, get them
thinking about changing their approach, right?
(01:51):
Maybe they realize, yeah, this frontal, this direct frontal
assault may not be the best way.And so obviously you got to use
words, right? So how do you flip the script?
And most, I realize most people don't understand this.
They don't do it. Most sales people, they're
nervous about the call and they spend so much time on the
(02:13):
preparation and the research because they don't know how to
jab, They don't know how to flipthe script.
They don't understand how to be different.
But all sales people will tell me, oh Wes, I'm great.
Once I get in front of a qualified prospect, I'm like way
#1 you know, your, your number one job is to get in front of a
qualified prospect, right? And B, how are you really
(02:35):
different? This is how I have worked in
dozens of industries with hundreds and even thousands of
entrepreneurs and sales people and sales managers with almost
no research on my part because the the help that I provide them
is human to human. You need to look at what your
competition does and do the opposite when that prospect
(02:58):
comes barreling in loaded for bear, right?
Tons of questions peppering you,expecting you to be this dancing
chicken, to give them free education, free consulting, free
advice so they can take that information, then go use it
against the next salesperson whocan't take control.
Of course you're going to be nervous.
It's like a never ending, you know, endless potential, you
(03:23):
know, for risk and for loss. How do you prepare for that?
But when I know how to flip the script, when I know how to take
control of the conversation, I'mnot that worried about it.
OK. And what I realized.
So, you know, since 2008, I've sold software.
Start working with Infusionsoft now.
They're called Keep. They were bought by Thrive.
(03:43):
But I've been a HubSpot partner since 2014, Entreports since
2014, Active Campaign, Convert Kit, Nimble, Pipedrive.
You know, I've had a lot of these on the CRM Sushi podcast.
But you know, I was, I was focused solely on infusion soft
for eight years, six years, 2008to 2014.
(04:05):
And those were the heydays, you know, I was selling so much.
But still to this day, people they, they want a demo, right?
And they they say, hey, yeah, tell me about your CRM.
I mean, it's like somebody saying, tell me about your home,
you know, that you're building for me.
Or tell me about your solar. Tell me about the car.
You know, I'm interested in thistruck.
I'm considering this versus that, you know, tell me about
(04:26):
it. It's, it's, it's endless.
It's never ending. The things that you could talk
about. And so do you recognize what is
going on? Because our job, like I was
saying, is to prospect, but really our job when we prospect
is to disqualify the prospect, not qualify.
Only a small percentage of people are ready, willing and
(04:47):
able to buy right now in this conversation, right now, in this
moment. And so the early partners in the
Infusionsoft days, we're all technical.
They were coders and developers.They wanted to support customers
that already had the software and they want to customize it
and supercharge it. And things that I could not do
and still can't do. It's not my world.
I was very good at using the system out-of-the-box.
(05:10):
Let's just use it the way it wasdesigned, right?
You know, why do they call, you know the, the initials for
Harley-Davidson HD, right? Because it stands for $100 and
you can't, you can't go to a store, you can't go anywhere
without spending $100 to to tweak it, to improve it, to
customize it, right? Well, that's how these guys were
treating Infusionsoft like hey, pay me $100.00 an hour, $200.00
(05:32):
an hour, pay me $100 to tweak something.
I had a Harley and all I put wassaddlebags on it.
So I like to use my stuff the way it was built.
So all these technical guys, they would, they would ask me,
how do I sell so much? And what they the mistake they
were making was thinking that the prospects were as analytical
and interested in everything as they were.
(05:53):
The reality it was and is most of the people calling to use it
were entrepreneurs, They were salespeople.
It was a tool couldn't meet their needs.
And so when they'd say, yeah, I'm, I'm interested in this CRM,
you know what? Can you tell me about it?
Now? It didn't hurt.
Oh, where's that behind? Let me grab it.
It didn't hurt that I wrote, youknow, a 600 plus page book on
(06:17):
infusion soft. So I'd say, well, you know, how
much time do you have? Because I literally wrote the
book, you know, you got 12 hours.
No. OK, let's say you don't.
You didn't write a book, you know, but somebody when they hit
you with that again, you got to flip the script.
Yeah. I'm interested in, you know,
your software. What what can you tell me about
it? Well, I can tell you a lot about
it. What would you like to know?
I mean, you know, look, I mean, don't be playing these these
(06:40):
sales games with me. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm
interested in the software. Apologize if you think I'm
coming off that way, but this stuff does a lot.
What would you like to know? Like and what I realize what I
have done, what I do have done over the years and still do.
And it's not, I don't know if I learned this like as a ploy, A
(07:01):
tactic, or I just do it, but I, I think it's just sincere.
I'm, I'm truly curious on what'sgoing on in their lives.
And I, and I thought about it like when you when friends get
together, they're excited to catch up and then, but then
eventually they tell stories. They, they stop asking questions
because I used to always say whoever asks the questions is in
control of the conversation. And that is still true.
(07:24):
But you got to make sure you don't come across like an
inquisition, right? Like the police or the FBI just
peppering them with questions because the old school trainers,
you know, never, never answer a question, you know, will never
ask a question they could say noto and never answer a question
without a question. So it's like, OK, that that's
(07:46):
not as effective anymore. All right, but there's a way to
do it. But anyway, when you get
together with old friends, right?
Oh my gosh, how are you doing? How's the wife?
How's the kids? How's the job?
How's the house? How's the dog?
Tell me, tell me, tell me. You know, they're they're
excited, like they want to know everything.
And and I do this with Prospect.Well, tell me about the CRM.
(08:07):
I'm happy to let me ask you something like what's what's
your level of experience with this?
So you can leave it at that. What I usually do those say,
what's your level of experience with this?
Like, you know, are you like wayinto it super experience?
Like you can code this stuff and, and, and make it, you know,
shake, rattle and hum on on yourown?
(08:27):
Or is it kind of like a necessary evil?
Or are you brand new to this? So I give him some choices and I
go, no, I mean, I'm, I'm not a rookie, but yeah, it's kind of a
necessary evil. Hey, no sweat.
I'm with you on that. You know, what are you using
now? And again, a lot of times they
don't want to answer because they've been abused by other
(08:48):
salespeople and they know they're going to play the cards
close to the vest. So I won't just ask.
So what are you using now? So what are you using now?
Are you moving from something you know, are you down grading?
Are you upgrading? Are you looking for more
capabilities? Or is it just, you know, sticky
notes and, and e-mail right now?Yeah, we're basically e-mail
sticky notes or yeah, we're, we're kind of growing out of our
(09:11):
current platform and, you know, kind of wondering what's out
there or yeah, we're, you know, we're down grading.
You know, we, we overbought a couple years ago, you know, our
eyes were bigger than our then our mouth or then our stomachs,
you know, whatever, it's OK, hey.
And again, hey, I hear that all the time.
It happens. No sweat.
So but by by peppering them witha few sincere, honest questions
(09:34):
and being excited about like, I love selling, I love selling
technology. I love helping people
understand, like get the claritya lot of times for the first
time ever, because people confuse things, they muddle the
waters. They don't know how to sell and
they, they emphasized the wrong thing.
You know, I learned years ago, your, your prospects are not
(09:57):
you. So that's why my early
competitors, if you will, the early partners at Infusionsoft
who were very technical, they treated all of the prospects as
being like them, technical, wanting to read the manual.
And they weren't OK. Now I got lucky in a way, right?
And that most of the customers weren't like me.
They just needed the tool. They needed to get the job done,
(10:21):
so I kept it simple. OK, so, but again, you've got to
flip the script. So when they come in, tell me
about the CRM and and you've gotto read, read the room, right?
Are they closed off? Are they curt?
Are they rude? You know, are they avoiding eye
contact or are they not turning their camera on?
And you know, and look, I've been selling over video since I
(10:44):
got started with Infusionsoft, you know, 2008 and I was, I
became really active selling it by, I don't know, middle late of
late O 9 because back then at first it was $5000 down.
I was like, I didn't really didn't see the value in
reselling that because I got in on another partner program.
So I didn't have to pay that. There's a different
(11:06):
qualification process back then.But then they lowered the price
to two grand. I'm like, OK, it's worth 2 grand
because I did the setup OK, because they, they changed the
rules. So because back then the 5K went
to them and I was just stubborn and kind of desperate, right?
I needed this stuff to work. So I was, I was dedicated.
But once they lowered the price and I could get the fee, I'm
like, OK, no sweat. I know I add value.
(11:29):
And so getting involved like that, you know, I loved it.
I love selling it. These people, they were me.
They, they were wanting to automate their lives.
They wanted to take away the redundancy, the tedious stuff,
the non profit making activities, but vital.
(11:51):
They were important things, right?
I mean, in a way everything makes you money, right?
But when you can streamline and,and eliminate data entry or, or
eliminate double entry, I mean, life just gets, gets better.
So, so I was sincerely, truly interested in helping these
people. I, I was excited about the
(12:12):
product. I was excited about the change
you could bring about in their lives.
I was excited about making the money.
I made great money. So, so how can you flip the
script on these prospects? You know, you've got to
recognize what is going on. You have to recognize your role
as a salesperson. OK, Again, your job is to
disqualify. Your job is to help the prospect
(12:36):
understand, probably for the first time ever, the the depth
and the breadth of their issue, the ramifications, the impact.
OK. And and I say for the first time
because, look, if if they had truly made a decision and
recognize everything, they wouldhave already done it.
(12:58):
You know I'm, I'm HOA president,right?
We just cut checks for two new HVAC systems for our clubhouse,
2 new heaters for our pool. We recognize the problem.
We paid to solve the problem. You know, we have 5 heaters for
our pool, one for the kiddie pool, one for the hot tub, 3 for
(13:19):
the main pool. The kiddie pool went out I guess
a while ago. We have 3 for the main pool.
One of those went out and so so I knew it was an issue with one
going out. I knew that our systems were way
old. We got lucky.
These things have have far outlived how long they should.
So we began researching this andinvestigating this.
(13:41):
We've gotten multiple bids, right?
So we were one of those, Hey, tell me about your service.
Tell me about what system you'd recommend.
Why do you recommend that one? How many times have you
installed this one? What's the customer support
like? On and on, right?
So, but literally this past weekend, so one of the air
conditioners failed about a month ago and we have a local
(14:02):
guy that we've done that did ourremodeling on our clubhouse and
we have him on a retainer for maintenance.
He he went out, tweaked something, got it working or it
failed again this past weekend. So it's like, OK, done.
So we'd already gotten quotes. So we made a choice and cutting
the checks literally right now. So, you know, I tell you that
because if they, if they haven't, if they still have the
(14:24):
problem, it means they either have not fully recognized the
extent of the problem, you know,or they have and they're in
their final decision making. So OK, are you like the third
quote they're going to get before they make a decision?
Who has put into their brains the specs, the needs, you know,
can you reverse engineer things?Maybe they're they're getting
(14:47):
quotes on the wrong configuration.
So how do you how do you dig down?
Right. So it's our job again to
disqualify these prospects, engage them.
You know, you're on the right track when you get the prospect
saying, huh, that's a good question.
Wow, never really thought of it that way, huh.
I got to give that some thought.You know, let me get back to you
(15:08):
on that. So again, our job is not to
educate them. Our job is to ask questions they
haven't thought of, then give some education, help them
understand, you know, because really since the age of the
Internet, the role of salesperson has changed.
And now with AII think it's really changing.
Our job is not so much to educate, but to confirm, to
(15:30):
validate, to help the prospect know they're making the right
decision. And we do that by the questions
that we ask. And of course, having some
insights into the the features and the benefits that the tools,
whatnot. OK, so how can you flip this
script? So it's literally being calmer.
(15:53):
It's being more inquisitive. And it's OK to ask questions
they can say no to because look,hearing no early is a win.
But just make sure you're doing it right.
It's not you're not trying to get off the phone, right?
And just go to the next. You want to make sure it's it's
something you can't handle. You want to make sure that
(16:15):
there's truly not a fit. OK, if somebody comes to me and
says, you got to teach this course in Chinese, like, OK, I
can't do it. So I mean, we're let's just end
this now. Like, I'd hate to do a big
dance, do a big RFPRFQ, you know, spend hours, days, weeks
on this thing and then say, Oh, yeah, we forgot to tell you, you
know, you have to travel to China in 60 days and give this,
(16:35):
you know, in Mandarin. I mean, I'm picking an extreme
example. You get the point, though.
Can you put these people back ontheir heels, get them thinking,
giving, giving things some thought, then accepting your
guidance, your coaching, your advice.
You're, you're steering, if you will.
(16:58):
That's how you know things are going your way.
And again, none of this is done from a manipulative standpoint.
We are persuading because it's in their benefit, it's in their
best interest to listen to us and to follow our
recommendations, OK? I know from a training
perspective, from a coaching perspective, I'm their best
(17:21):
option, OK? I believe that in my heart.
I've talked about this before, you know, Zig Ziglar talking
about, you know, be a product ofthe product and how he had one
of his guys was struggling and he told them where's your,
where's your gear? Right.
And the guy said, I haven't had the money if I had this and the
other. And he said, pull out your pad
and write yourself an order. As soon as the guy did
(17:44):
psychologically, he was now bought in.
He was literally and now psychologically bought in.
And that, that the, the thing that we sell is confidence.
You know, Zig has always said that the selling is a
transference of a feeling. That feeling is confidence.
So when somebody is just peppering you with a lot of
questions, yeah, on the one hand, you can just answer,
answer, answer. And that could be a tactic,
(18:06):
right? Because if, you know, they come
in and asking a bunch of stuff, you just calmly answer.
And then when they run out of steam, say, hey, mind if I ask
you a few questions of my own? Kind of like in jujitsu, We'll
get, we'll get new guys come in and they just, you know, they
shoot their wad, They come in full of piss and vinegar and
(18:26):
they attack. And you know, I'm 55 years old
now. I don't have the energy, the
cardio of a 25 year old. Get these big Marines coming in,
cops, firemen, 2530 years old weight lifters, you know, former
wrestlers, former football players, whatever, cross
fitters. And they, I mean, the bell rings
(18:48):
and they attack. I can't go toe to toe with these
guys, OK? So I don't, I know how to
retreat. I know how to move.
I know how to use their momentumagainst them and just subtle
little movements. They're giving it everything and
I'm just redirecting, redirecting, redirect that.
There's the grabbing, They're squeezing.
As long as if the if the hand isnot deep in the neck, there's no
(19:10):
choke there. They're pulling, they're
squeezing. Never fails. 2030 seconds tops.
I've never anybody even last a minute going at that full pace
brand new. Once they're done now I put it
on them, OK, Now I show them jiujitsu.
So it could be the same thing with your prospects, right?
So they ask a bunch of question,what's the size, what's the
(19:31):
weight? What's the warranty?
What's the, you know, shipping time on and on and on.
What's the code? What's this?
What's the material made of? Is it organic?
Is it American made? Any artificial dyes and
coloring? No, yes, no, yes, no.
OK, and you'll see them kind of give up.
You literally feel that in jiu jitsu.
I'll lay on them, but not totally smash.
(19:53):
I want them extended a little bit and not fully because the,
you know, the frame of your body, your skeletal frame can
hold the weight. I want them right in between and
I'm kind of shifting a little bit back and forth.
So there's never even and then they literally the hands
collapse. I don't know, I got them.
So the same thing in Sailor that, this, that and the other
organic USA. And you see a guy go, oh, OK,
(20:18):
they run out of steam because they're they're trying to gotcha
get you gotcha. Now you answer everything like,
huh. Now you slowly, confidently say
while you consider your next question, it'd be OK if I ask
you a couple questions. OK, so I'm, I'm letting them
think they're in charge. But the reality is I'm in
charge. I know how this game is going to
go. And they all be oh, yeah, go
(20:39):
ahead. So now I start not peppering
them, but I want to ask some deeper questions.
You know, my website, I have my frequently asked questions and
my should ask questions. The should ask questions are the
the things they don't know. They don't know.
That's how I differentiate myself from everybody else.
It's by the questions that I asked, the insight that I bring
to the table. But I can't say, hey, look,
(21:02):
look, I got a degree here, a degree here.
Look, I'm a citizen of the year over here, blah, blah, blah.
Air Force veteran. Look, they don't care.
They don't care until I asked them good questions and prove
that any of these things behind me mean anything to them in
their current situation because that's all that matters.
(21:23):
So stop trying to, you know, stroke your ego by showing off
to these prospects how much you know, OK, ask good questions
that they haven't that they don't know the answers to.
That's why I have everybody in my consulting in my 12 weeks to
peak. I have you write.
I don't even use that was beforeAI.
Don't even use AI to write, at least in this context.
(21:43):
I want you to write to get into the process of thinking and
formulating your thought and, and putting your argument
together, bolstering your stanceand internalizing that, you
know, again, it's just like jiu jitsu.
I'm showing a guy today how we move, how to set things up and
we do these warm ups and do the same warm up routine every day.
(22:06):
And it can be boring, I get it. But you know, professional
trains, you know, rookie trains.So they get it right, a
professional trains and so they can't get it wrong.
So our warmups are done for a specific reason.
And when we get into a position on this one warm up, it helps us
with sweeps, it helps us with attack, with defending attacks.
So it's both offensive and defensive.
But we, we, we practice this over and over and over again.
(22:28):
And I was showing him, so in that practice, in that
repetition, when you do it right, you now can do it without
thinking when it matters, when you're being attacked.
OK, so have you gone through this enough?
Do you know enough? Is it, is it ingrained in your
in your brain and your body and your being to engage them in a
(22:51):
calm, methodical, thought out manner?
That's how you prove you're different by being different.
So by by riding and thinking this through, that's you're
getting those repetitions in. Yes, it can be boring, but it
will pay off. I promise you.
AI does not have this humanity component to it.
(23:12):
You know, I heard something years ago, you know, electronic
music has been around for a while, right?
Decades and but they had done a study and because you would
think all this perfect music perfect timing about a lot of
people will like this. But there was something about
the the nanosecond of discrepancy of you know of drums
(23:36):
and the timing and the keyboardsand whatever guitar that made
people appreciate the music. They talk about humans you know
our faces are are not perfect mirrors.
You know, eyes are a little different, one may be a little
more closed, one may be turned up whatever the nostrils may be
a little bit different, will smile a little unevenly.
(23:57):
And those, those imperfections are what make us beautiful to
the people that love us. So the, the imperfections that
that are in your writing humanize you.
And that's where the connection comes from because at the end of
the day, you're a human selling to a human.
So put in the reps, do the writing, do the thinking, do
that deep hard work. OK, That's how you flip the
(24:19):
script. Because when you do this enough
again, it'll become ingrained. It's just deep in your in your
body, in your soul. OK, so I'll put a couple of
links in here. Like I said that the the flip
the script, you can go back and watch that or you can you can
sign in and watch that. It's basically what I covered
here. But then that'll take you if you
(24:42):
want my objection handling flashcards.
And I've had this for many years, 51 pages, but I just
updated it's like 57 pages now. But it's just a regular format,
like, you know, sheet of paper that's still all the same, you
know, one argument, an intro andthen examples of how to handle
(25:02):
it. So, you know, avail yourself of
that. I'll, I'll link directly to that
if you want to get those. And, and again, I'm not, I don't
want you to become a robot. I don't want you to memorize all
these things and think that's just it.
Memorize this and you'll be OK. The reason I give you scripts
and and objection handling tips and openers for cold calls and
stuff, again, it's not to make you a robot, but they give you
(25:25):
the confidence to step into the arena.
And just like with our jiu jitsu, you know, maybe the first
few tournaments you do, you wereamped up.
You're nervous, man. I forgot everything in the first
couple fights. But then I owe you get through.
And I was a grown ass man. You know, like I'm a white belt
though in jiu jitsu. I'm 47 years old and just forget
everything. But you got to go through that.
(25:46):
You got to flounder and fail a little bit, you know, but like
they say, you either win or you learned.
There really is no failure. So I give you the scripts so
you, you know that you have the answer, but at least a good
answer, at least something that won't make you look stupid.
And you got to go through it and, and personalize it and make
it your own. You know, the moves my 60 year
(26:06):
old instructor teaches, you know, he's whatever, 59510 a
160, 65 lbs, I'm 62235. You know, but he learned moves.
He's trained for 40 years, I've trained for eight.
We have different abilities, so I have to modify things.
So the things that I give you, the foundation of them will
always be true. You know, work around the edges,
(26:28):
customize and personalize them. OK, But you've got to enter the
arena. You got to stay sharp, do the
writing, do the calls, handle, take the objections, handle
them, gain the confidence, get the wins, get the referrals and
testimonials, get more confidence in it.
That's why I call it ABCDE. You know, I'll link to that as
(26:48):
well. But you know, a track bond,
convert, deliver in deer and it's not a pipeline, it's not a
funnel, it's not one way, it's never ending.
It's a circle. Attract, bond, convert,
delivering deer, attract, bond, convert, delivering deer.
Because when you conduct yourself differently at the
attraction phase, the bonding gets easier.
The conversion to becoming a customer gets easier.
(27:09):
It's easier now because you didn't over promise.
It's easier to delight them. That makes it easier to endear
yourself to them. Now you're back to the
attraction phase. You know, I was hanging out with
my kids and you know, since 2002, you know, I bought an
iPod. Since 2004, I've used Apple
computers. Now my family of nine, that's
all we have because Apple understands the track bond
(27:30):
convert delivering deer. You're not here to make one
sale. You're here to make 5 or 10 to
them. OK, That's, that's what you do
when you flip the script, OK, You prove you're different by
being different from the moment you open your mouth.
But back to that attraction phase.
How, how you e-mail somebody, how you leave a voicemail, how
you confirm a meeting, all of that sets the tone.
(27:55):
All of that tells the world you know are are you truly different
or not? Prove you're different by being
different. Look at what your competition
does and do the opposite right. I think Ogilvy said that many
years ago. Do that, you'll be fine.
If you need some help, hit me up.
I'll put some links in the in the description.
Thanks for watching. I'll go sell something.
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