To Raise Your Prices, Raise Your Standards

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello, my friend, and welcome tothe 717th episode of the Sales
Podcast. I'm going to share for the sales
for your host today we have BillRice.
See that picture of me right there?
Class of 1992 United States Air Force Academy, Bill Rice, member
of the 1992 true Blue class, Small world.

(00:20):
I had lost track of him. I mean, we weren't like super
close to the Academy, but I knewhim and I got an e-mail from, I
think he's, he's using an agency.
I don't remember like Bill Rice and I click, I'm like, oh man.
So we connected and he's in the same lot of work as me, working
with CRMS, working with clients,with their marketing, their

(00:42):
sales. He's out of Michigan.
He comes at this a little bit differently than me, but we
still overlap a good bit. So it was good speaking to him
about what's working now, leveraging AI, you know, are
people opting in? Is SEO still a thing?
What about paid traffic? How do you stand out, you know,
in this crazy world? And shared some stories like old

(01:05):
guys with Gray hairdo. But, you know, we're still in
the game making it happen. And I think I know I'm now more
than ever with with AI and technology and social media and
isolation, understanding how humans work, how to lead people,
how to motivate people, how to get inside their heads.
It's more important than ever, especially I I literally just

(01:27):
before I hit record on this intro, Google's rolling out this
VO3. I tell you what, I was on X.
This guy's showing 20 different examples of it.
And if he, if I didn't know it was a thread demonstrating the
power of this platform. I thought they were all real
videos. So we're Skynet is here, man,

(01:51):
Sarah Connor is looking at us like why are you sharing
information with A? So you know what's going to
happen. I think the fundamentals still
work. I think those who have mastered
the fundamentals will still win.But you've got to be aware and
Bill's got a good approach, goodinside, good mantra.

(02:11):
He mentioned a couple of times that I want you to pay attention
to on when to use technology andand big scale and when to do
what does not scale, which you've heard me say now for
many, many years. There's a time to place for
everything and that's what we get into.
All right, Pay attention to someof the things I'm working on.

(02:33):
I've got my daily e-mail that's still popping.
I'm working on some new lead magnets.
I'm working on my own advertising.
I haven't really ever done advertising in any meaningful
way. I've dabbled in it, experimented
with it. So I'm ramping that up, seeing
some people that I like, lifestyles I want to emulate,

(02:56):
business approaches I want to emulate.
So this old dog is still learning new tricks and been
making new content. And the cool thing is it's like
I've had all these assets and soI get to freshen them up.
I don't have to start from scratch.
Most of the things I've always done are timeless right there.

(03:16):
I work on fundamentals. I'm not getting too much into AI
and SEO or PPC or, you know, things that that might age and
and fall away. Although SEO still around, I
still like SEOI use HubSpot as my as my web host.
Those fundamentals haven't changed, so that's good.

(03:37):
But you know, my point is that the things that I have always
taught while I am changing my prospecting scripts a little bit
the the outbound, but what I have used since 2006 and I've
taught still works in some industries for a lot of people.
So I don't want to get off of too much of A tangent on on this

(03:59):
year, but be on the lookout for that.
Got my whisper starter pack. I think I'll link to that here
in the show notes. But you know, it's my book, it's
my overcoming objections, flash cards, a few other things, but
making new landing pages, new offers, streamlining things.
And so I'll be sharing more information on that.
Maybe in the future I'll do a monologue, one of these episodes

(04:23):
here coming up, let you know what I'm up to.
But if I can help you grow your sales, you know, if it's not
Bill Rice, come to me. All right, One of us is the best
CRM and sales and marketing consultant from the class of 92,
so you know, you got it narroweddown.
All right, there comes the interview with Bill, Bill Rice,

(04:44):
fellow True Blue 92. Welcome to the sales podcast,
man. How the heck are you?
It's I'm, I'm doing awesome and I can't believe how small this
world is, as we said. Man, years ago I had a 93 grad
on and I've had I'm the Waldo Waldman.
He was, I don't know, late 80s, but 92.

(05:04):
I get this e-mail. I'm like Bill Rice.
What? What?
Yeah, yeah, it's crazy tall. Goodness gracious.
And and now. So here you are.
You're in Michigan, but you're doing Dan me the same thing I'm
doing. Yeah, very similar in a lot of
ways. Design and grow inbound lead
generation strategy. Are you, are you just copying

(05:25):
me? I mean, you just you just you've
followed me around since 1988, man.
I mean, come when you gonna do your own thing, man.
Hey man, when you know when you got a great in front of you, you
just follow, Follow, right? So what do you do?
Are you working with CRMS? Are you working with platforms?
Do you have your own? Yeah.

(05:46):
So yeah, there's a couple thingswe have actually going.
So I run a couple of different agencies.
Our our primary focus is actually lead generation for
sales teams. And so that kind of puts us on
the marketing side. So you're just screen scraping
an AI and handing it over to some dude in Pakistan to just do
cold e-mail? Just cut to the chase man.

(06:08):
We're. Yeah, we're not.
Yeah, it's, I mean, it is a lot of content.
I mean there's lots of things changing around AI and content
and some of the things we do ours is a little bit different
on the B to BS. So we work on both.
On the collide side, we're doingbusiness to consumer.
So we're generating leads for financial services companies,
insurance and again those are consumers and we're doing a lot

(06:30):
of CRM stuff to help them kind of follow up and nurture those
on the bill, right strategy group, we're doing B to B.
And on that side, as you know, alittle bit of a different format
where traditionally it's cold outreach, lot of things you
talked about, we flipped the script a little bit coming from
the consumer side. We got really good at generating

(06:53):
inbound leads, which are, you know, sales, always loved that
on the B to B side. So we we do some of the outreach
too, but we do a lot of those inbound leads.
A lot of that's around content AI is starting to reshape that.
But yeah, within in the the sortof the CRM world, we're doing a
lot of support there because that's that's kind of the

(07:15):
heartbeat of a sales organization.
And then we've also gotten involved in some of the early
people are just sort of tired ofhearing of AI.
But the other things that we're working with some, some groups
specifically focused on predictive AI inside of the
sales operation. So once you've got these leads

(07:35):
like figuring out the right timeto follow up that the right type
of content to deliver and the ones you know, again, this AI
stuff's getting so good, predicting it like what's going
to actually close is becoming more and more accessible.
And so that's some exciting technology with some of the
companies we're working with arestarting to embed that

(07:56):
predictive AI inside of those operations.
And you know, most most specifically the CRM itself.
Yeah, it's, it's noisy, man. It feels like it's noisier than
ever. I know a lot of people.
One guy, there's this battle going on in LinkedIn right now,

(08:18):
you know, one guy says, hey, cold calling, you know, just get
better, do the work and here's how to be affected.
Another guy's like I do cold calling and it's just the first
touch and it's more about long term drip and nurturing.
And, and I mean, I mean hundredsof comments on this one.
This guy did a book review this this dude that's very good at

(08:40):
cold calling and, and the guy criticizing it does cold
calling, but he says he's in it for the long haul.
It's just the first touch. And then others are like, oh,
it's, you know, because predictive or intent doesn't
work because once as soon as there's intent, everybody's on
it. Now you're just part of the
noise and it's like, OK, So whatworks now?

(09:01):
Smoke signals, you know, but this guy admitted he works in a
very bougie, very bespoke, you know, a handful of clients,
founders, very, you know, because he's talking 12161836
months right in this, in this thing.
I'm like, dude, the average salesperson, you know, this
whole BDRSDRAE world, he doesn'thave 36 months to make his

(09:25):
number. He's got to make his number this
quarter, right? You know, so it's like maybe you
should have led with that caveatof, so I don't know, is
everybody just full of crap? Yeah, No, I mean, I think it's a
good point. And one of the illustrations I
like to bring up is like it, it really fundamentally is all the
same thing, right? You, you, you know, kind of the,
the aid of framework or whichever 1 you like the best.

(09:47):
You, you kind of got to get on the market, you got to make
people aware and you know, you got to get their interest up
right. And then you got to get them
into that mode of, of making a decision.
And, and, and so that framework all exists.
Like when I first got in the game, as I got out of the
military, kind of moved over to the commercial side of things.
You know, we were putting advertisements in the newspaper

(10:10):
and driving, if you can believe this, driving traffic from the
newspaper to the like the early Internet websites, right?
But what were we doing? We're putting an offer in the
newspaper. We're getting them all excited
about it. And then we were moving them to
wherever we wanted to have the conversation.
In our case, we're trying to geta lead for a salesperson.
So the mechanisms are the same. We still as fundamentally as

(10:31):
salespeople, you know, need to have some sort of of lead or
person that we think is the right person, right?
And then we need to have a conversation with them.
And then we need to get them excited and we need to
understand their pain points andeverything and get them excited
about a solution and then get them to sign a contract.
So fundamentally the the workflow is the same what you

(10:53):
use to as the world changes, like, OK, well, people stopped
reading the newspapers. So what do we do?
We moved to Google, right? And we started paying for search
ads and stuff like that. Same things happening now,
right? People are maybe using Google a
little less and they're using AIor maybe it's smarter to to
leverage some AI to figure out like who that that you could

(11:14):
call. Call would have the highest
probability of picking up that phone or or surrounding them and
giving them enough information with some other channels.
Maybe popping into their LinkedIn, showing your little
face that you took a look at them.
Then having them look at your profile, see that you're having
some conversations on LinkedIn and then maybe send them an
e-mail or maybe then make that phone call and they're like, Oh

(11:36):
yeah, I do remember seeing Wes'sface on my LinkedIn profile.
I did take a quick look, hey, this phone call, maybe I'll
answer because it looked like Wes was doing some stuff that I
was interested in. So, you know, I, I, I hate to
kind of get in these, these religious conversations about
like what works and what doesn't.
It's really more about figuring out like what works for your

(11:57):
organization, your marketplace, and then leveraging all this
noisy stuff around you to, to make you more productive or make
you more effective at, at what you're doing.
But at the end of the day, for most of us, you got to make a
call and you got to have a conversation still in order to
get somebody to to write a checkto you well.

(12:18):
It's like the military, right? You need air superiority, but
you need some grunts, so they got to drive in there and secure
the place. Yeah, well, you can't.
Yeah, you can't hold territory with air power.
We figured that out real quick after the first go for, right.
I mean, you can, you can cause alot of pain and you can change
minds, but if you wanna hold ground, you're gonna have to get

(12:41):
your buddies from the Army to goin there and the Navy to.
Build a couple of McDonald's subway.
We used to. Always say 80s was the first on
the ground, right? I mean so.
Oh man, well, I, I discovered, you know, I I started, I was
taking my shirt off in ads and people started paying me to put
my shirt back on. So it's kind of like only dads,

(13:02):
like only fans. But just like I just, I have
this side in kind of like keep your shirt on like people pay me
like every month. I'm like, what are they trying
to say? But anyway.
I don't have the right ICP right?
Yeah, I mean, so it works. I mean, I get that mailbox
money. Oh man.
Yeah, it is. It is crazy, but like what works

(13:24):
for calling today? I'm a fan of calling.
It just seems harder than ever, you know, to get good
information, to enrich it, you know, do it affordably, then try
to drip on them. You know, I'm running across

(13:44):
this. I have a couple of prebuilt
campaigns that I push into people's CRMS, into their market
automation tools. But if I put you into a drip
sequence where I call you, e-mail you, reach out on social
media, maybe I do a direct mail piece, call you again, e-mail
you, that e-mail is technically a cold e-mail.
Yeah. Right.
Even if I do a one off like likeHubSpot, you know, on a one off

(14:08):
e-mail, it actually routes through your own G Suite or
Outlook. And it's fine for me as an
individual doing my own stuff. But if I've got even 5 reps and
they're hitting the phones hard and that if they just do 50
emails times 5, right, there's 250, maybe there's, they're
doing 100, there's 500 coming, same e-mail coming out, you

(14:33):
know, does that work? They get dinged, you know, but
then a HubSpot or a diffusion soft or whatever that they won't
e-mail to a cold list. What's the?
What's the workaround? Yeah, yeah, for sure.
I'm a big fan, you know, So one of the things I always tell
clients and folks is I like systems to work leads and people

(14:56):
to work people, right? So have conversations.
So there are ways and, and, and I think it's important to, to
leverage all these different systems and tools.
And some of the things you mentioned can turn a cold call
or a cold e-mail into something warm, but you have to get a
little more sophisticated. And this is where automation can

(15:17):
can leverage your things like HubSpot and you know, you work
with Keep and Infusionsoft and stuff like that for me.
And then I think you also need to, I'm a big fan of knowing how
the technology works to some degree, so you can leverage some
points. So one of my favorite things to
do on the B to C side, it is as a lead comes inbound.

(15:38):
So usually that's an inquiry, right that we generate is
immediately go out with a text message and then an e-mail that
says I got your information. So it's a confirmation, right?
And B to B when we're generating?
Yeah. So that's B to C.
Yep, that's B to C, but B to B too.
If you get an inbound lead triggering, do.

(15:58):
People give up their cell phone numbers.
Yeah, absolutely. In fact, most of the numbers you
get now are cell phone numbers. This is one of the the things
that's really, and I'll talk about B to B here in a second,
but this is what's really tormenting B to B because
particularly with remote now, this is changing a little bit.
People are moving back to the office, but people don't have
office numbers anymore, right? They they have their cell phone,

(16:20):
right. And so if you go into something
like Apollo or Rocket Reach or you know any of the Zoom info,
most of the office numbers are invalid cell phones maybe not
accessible. So a lot of those things are are
not connecting. So This is why I do like to do
e-mail and text message, you know, if those are available.

(16:42):
Because the other thing about knowing the technology is 1, it
goes through this lock screen notifications up here.
Plus, if you send those first and then you make a phone call,
chances are because it was on the lock screen that people took
a look at it and opened up theirphone.
So then the phone, when you makethat phone call, instead of
saying unknown or spam, likely it's like you see this come up

(17:05):
occasionally, likely Wes right? And so then you're like, oh, I
know who that is and I'll pick up the phone.
So that's one little trick on the B to B side.
Again, warming those calls and those emails up with LinkedIn is
kind of my favorite thing because the, the beauty of
LinkedIn is people can check youout, they see your face, you can

(17:26):
pop up on them. And, and we're all, we're, we're
all curious about who's looking at us, right?
So we're always looking at like who's visited us.
So that's a, a really effective way.
You can come in there with a message and a connection request
that makes sense. You can start the conversation
on LinkedIn. That's, believe it or not,
really effective as long as you,in my estimation, you're

(17:48):
transparent. Like I'll go in there and I'll
say, hey, I'm Bill Rice run a strategy company.
We do a lot to help B to B companies generate inbound
leads, right? It would be interesting or, or
would it be interesting if we connected, right?
So many people try to kind of goup with the sneak attack and
nobody likes that. And everybody, as soon as you

(18:08):
kind of like, hey, I noticed youwent to the Air Force Academy or
whatever, you're like, yeah, well, I know there's a.
Next door neighbor's best friend's dad also almost got in.
Yeah, right. Exactly but.
You know what's behind that? So, so be a little transparent
with that. And then again, the, the phone
call and the e-mail fact of the matter is even in B to B, like I

(18:33):
agree with you, like the phone is really tough.
So generally I'll save a phone call until I've had a couple
interactions digitally because Ithink people like to have
control of that conversation andbe prepared for it.
And then occasionally I like to use phone call almost as a
surprise. It's like, oh, I've talked to
this person a couple times and what Wes is calling me like that

(18:57):
creates a whole different sort of conversation.
So, so to make the phone work better, I like to kind of start
with the digital channels and start to warm that up, build,
you know, build up a little bit of comfort level, be transparent
as to what I think I have for you.
And then I, I think the other thing that's that's kind of
really important about that are to remember a lot of times sales

(19:20):
people were shy about this. But believe it or not, frequency
builds trust. So the more they see your name,
particularly if it's in different places, they're going
to be more responsive. Assuming that again, you've got
your ICP, right, it fits and they've got a true problem that
you can solve. You know, some of those other
elements have to be there. But yeah, just just creating

(19:42):
more frequency, creating more saturation in front of, you
know, their eyeballs, you know, always is going to get you a
better response when you go downto the the actual contact phase.
What are people opting in to receive?
Because some are saying, you know, PDFs are dead, though the
the white white paper, the free report, the long, you know,

(20:04):
guys, those are dead. I'm like, OK, everything's dead.
Then. I mean, they opt in for a video.
Do you get into a membership sites?
I mean, what are they? What are they choosing to opt in
for? Yeah, I mean, we love content
for sure. I'm of a different opinion.
And you know, people are like freer than ever with their
e-mail because they know they can sort it.

(20:26):
And, you know, Gmail's got all kinds of nice things to bucket
them off and everything. So I feel like an e-mail is
really easy to get, especially if there's some opportunity for
something of quality behind there, you know, a white paper
or something that's going to solve a problem or whatever.
So gated content still unquestionably works, but the
other thing that that I think works really well is is ungated

(20:49):
content. And then inside of that content
saying, hey, I can help you withthis, right?
I'm going to give you a lot of value first, right?
I'm going to give you the solution.
I'm going to tell you how it works.
I'm going to try to build some confidence in that.
And then, oh, by the way, I can either tell you more about this
or I can do it for you. And that to, to capture, and

(21:11):
this is a lot of the technique we use to capture a discovery
call is pretty simple. I mean, it's still, you know, 2
or 3% of total traffic and people that visit that.
But once that person kind of fills that out and we usually
the way we actually captured is not kind of the traditional
form, give me your name and youre-mail, which just feels like

(21:31):
you're, you're running head first into a sales pitch.
What we like to do is a survey style form.
So we're asking them one question at a time and we're
moving them through it. And they kind of feel like
they're, I think a couple thingshappen like mentally in that
moment is 1. They feel they feel like they're
getting closer to their solutionbecause they're answering
questions that make sense. And at the same time as they're

(21:54):
kind of moving through that, I think they're getting some sense
that you have credibility because you're asking the right
questions. And I'm not just talking about,
you know, firmographic stuff like, don't you know, how many,
how many sales reps do you have or how many, you know, not, not
how much revenue do you make? Not, not all that, but some
questions about the problem, right?
And all the sudden they're like,hey, like he gave me like 5

(22:16):
problems that I could be solving.
And like, those make sense in, in my role, right?
So doing some work upfront to really understand your ideal
customer profile, the problems that they face and the solutions
they're looking for, and then build a survey to kind of figure
out which one of the those they're looking for.
It also does great things on theback end.

(22:36):
Once it gets in your CRM, you can do all kinds of
sophisticated things to figure out where they go and whether or
not they're going to convert andwhether or not they fit and all
those kind of things. So I really love those surveys
and those are really, you know, really effective.
Obviously the classic white paper and lead magnets.
I still believe in those, but it's amazing how many people

(22:57):
just kind of come through and tell you what the problem is,
right? Especially if it's cute enough.
Yeah. Do you have them opt in at the
end or in the beginning of the survey?
Yeah, at the end, yeah. Anything that looks like a
registration, ask for name and e-mail up front.
And our testing experience is a brick wall.
So, so you want to, you want to build again, a lot of this

(23:18):
psychological right? This my Intel background.
This is where, where the thread connects, right?
You got to, you got to give themsomething upfront that makes
them feel like that there's something of value there or you
understand them or whatever. And then on that last page,
which is the, you know, the contact information, they'll
give you that all day because you've already built the trust.
And that's the other reason I like the survey style form

(23:39):
because you get like 3 or 4 questions and, and you it's
amazing how like the mind shiftsversus just say, hey, give me
your your name and e-mail right up front and then I'm going to
ask you some questions or give you something so.
Do you, but I've turned off freeemails.
I may turn them back on. I don't know.

(24:00):
But it's like certain obviously in AB to B setting like I want
to know who the hell you are. You know, because I've got one
of my top lead generators for 1215 years is a survey around
CRMS and so, but like things andI guess it, it depends on your
own reputation. Like I've been fine you know,

(24:22):
but all the Yahoo and Microsoft and Outlook I mean using
Infusionsoft I've had some problems in the past with their
deliverability but I don't know things seem to have gotten
better and mine seems OK but on using hubspots I got I turned
off free. Yeah.
You know, obviously I'm getting fewer OPT insurance, but now I'm
getting real people. I can look them up on LinkedIn,

(24:44):
connect with them easier. So do do you accept the free?
Yeah, I mean it, it, it depends a little bit who you are, like
if you're targeting small businesses.
I'm the sales whisperer. Right, right.
You personally and, and, and, and my scenario, no, I expect
you to have like, like the, the,the customer that I want to

(25:07):
engage with needs to have the sophistication of having a
business level account and as they're looking for information,
should have the professionalism to like want that to come into
their business account versus the free account.
So I think that's absolutely theright move for this scenario.
But there are, you know, scenarios where you're serving
small businesses or, you know, like classic ones are like

(25:33):
accountants that solve, you know, problems for small
business owners or something like that.
You see some of those small business owners that still live
in their their Gmail. We work a little bit in the
mortgage, you know, in the mortgage industry, especially in
the BTC mortgage brokers. I hate this but they still put
like super duper mortgage broker123.
I know my son's in real estate does well, he's got a Gmail and

(25:56):
a very good friend of mine, verysuccessful attorney.
He's but he's, he's 10 years older.
I mean he's in his mid 60s. He's got a Yahoo account.
Yeah, you'll see some of that. So I.
Built this website for him. He has a domain.
It's like he doesn't use it. I don't, yeah, I don't, I don't
get it. So to your, I guess the short
answer to your point for most ofus, yeah, I would absolutely

(26:18):
turn off free. And there's some other
characteristics that you want toturn off.
Like I mean, I'm a big believer in filtering up front to some
degree, right. I mean, you ideally you're
generating enough demand that you can be a little choosy
because there's nothing that sucks worse than getting on a a
discovery call for an hour with guy, guy that wants to, you

(26:38):
know, guy or gal that wants to pick your brain.
That's. Like they went to Navy, like I'm
not talking to that dude. Oh my gosh, that way for sure.
I just got a guy just just pokedthe bear.
He posted something about the how the Blue Angels are the are
the best. Yeah.
Whatever. Yeah, so I, so I, I post him a a

(27:00):
bunch of Thunderbird. People, all I say is my four
years we won the Commander Chief's Trophy.
So you know what? At least I did what I could, all
right? I mean, can't judge us on the
last several years. Yes, I know.
I don't know what's going on. It's it's kind of frustrating
that we saw. I remember well, you know this
too, Like our instructors, the Navy instructors, for whatever
reason, after the Navy game, they would switch, switch to

(27:22):
their their all black uniforms. And we used to always tell them
it's like, oh, this is your morning phase because.
They'd be morning, yeah. And it always, whatever that
switch over time was always the same time.
We're like, yeah, once again, you're in in morning.
So that's funny. Oh, man.
I mean, it's probably the fall, you know, the whole can't wear
white after Labor Day or whatever.

(27:42):
I mean, maybe guys, they're a little more sensitive, so they
they. Oh man, well, how are you
getting people to engage to get these surveys and stuff?
Because I'm I'm spooling up for the first time really ever paid
ads and I look at my own buying habit, how I engage most of the

(28:08):
stuff I'm seeing ads on social media and like it looks
interesting. I'll follow, get the report, buy
something. I mean, I can't think the last
time I've going to somebody's blog and just.
Yeah. Consumed.
Yeah. I mean the the the money makers
for us right now in B to B is LinkedIn.

(28:32):
So do it. We're doing what we call
connection campaigns is, is again to scale that you used to
you usually have a partner or you have somebody that's kind of
doing the manual work. At some point that'll probably
get more sophisticated, but I dostill believe in having a
partner who's who's doing those connection campaigns and that
outreach. Again what?

(28:53):
Does that, what does that mean? It's like Ava, like connecting
for you. Yeah, you do.
Yeah, a virtual assistant. I've actually got a group that
that are a little more sophisticated.
So they're all sales guys and they've done this, you know,
kind of created this as their their business.
And so they're an outreach agency.
You get them in your e-mail, a million of them.

(29:14):
So it's really hard to sort through them, but that's, that
is effective. The problem with that is scale
because you have to use, I mean,LinkedIn is still built around
the individual. So I'm a big fan of the kind of
the sales team of 1 concept. And you, you probably know this,
you're, you're probably this forthat.
I, I am from, for my agencies orwhatever.
You can be really effective. You can do millions of dollars

(29:36):
of sales as an individual sales Rep, you know, or agent if you
know how to kind of use these. So, so I like connection
campaigns. It does a couple things and
enlarges the network and increases visibility on
LinkedIn. It creates hard and fast
connections which some of those turn into to meetings or or some
subsequent stuff. LinkedIn as a channel to like

(30:01):
that's where I try to deliver value first video super popular
LinkedIn has has leaned into video so if you have the
capability to do short form video now you can even.
Are you doing native to upload it there like versus embed
YouTube or something? Yeah, totally.
Everything in in LinkedIn, and this is what makes it, it
probably what makes it a good channel that marketers like me

(30:24):
haven't ruined yet. But at the same time, it also
makes it harder to scale is in LinkedIn, almost everything has
to be done native. They really ratchet down their
API. If you put in external links and
YouTube, they suppress its reach.
So you do have to do native. That's where VA really works
well, you know, as an individualcontributor, you know, V as

(30:46):
aren't that expensive. Like I, I'm a big fan of of even
if I had to and I do in my in mycase, But if you had to invest
in them yourself, like I, I would do that, right, because
they can give you some scale. The other thing that's really
effective if you're not using some ChatGPT or Perplexity or

(31:08):
Gemini, like you got to get on the train because there's
nothing like one of my favorite hacks for salespeople.
And this isn't necessarily inbound demand.
But as far as conversion rate, if you want something that's
going to 10 extra conversion rate, come off of a discovery
call, go to your chat GBD, do animmediate follow up e-mail with

(31:29):
that and deliver it in a few minutes versus oh, shit, it's
the end of the week. I got to do my follow-ups.
I can't remember what the hell Italked about, you know, so
taking those transcripts in, have an AI kind of work through
that and give you an instant follow up.
People still love kind of the the responsiveness of a
salesperson, right? If so, so the, the moments to

(31:52):
really work well is inbound leads or conversations that you
get, the faster you respond, the, the higher your probability
of eventually closing the, the responsiveness you have to
inbound the questions or follow-ups again, significantly
increases the probability of that converting follow-ups.

(32:14):
I can't tell you how many. If you go into most sales
operations and most sales organizations and you look at
the amount of hanging follow-ups, that right there
will tell you the success of that operation because there are
so many deals that wander away because, you know, Bill never
followed up with me. So I, I went to my, you know,
second and third option who was responsive because at the end of

(32:38):
the day, a lot of times we're delivering somewhat comparable
solutions. So it's really about your
responsiveness and your sense ofurgency and solving that
person's problem that wins the day.
So, so that's, I'm, I'm a big fan of, of that kind of stuff
and AI, that's where AI can, even if you're not a
sophisticated user of it, just, you know, pay for a $20 ChatGPT

(33:01):
account and start getting it to work alongside of you bring Ava
in to, to be able to scale you and, and be able to, you know,
the end of the day, sales is still a large numbers game.
So anything that allows you to to do high quality at scale is
going to increase your paycheck.Yeah, clearly you're not a fan

(33:21):
of Terminator, man. Look, Skynet, I'm not.
No way, man. AI.
Nope. I'm pen and paper, dude.
It's no faxes. Faxes are where it's at.
Skynet can't read a fax. Yeah, 'cause you'll be the only
one that dropped on the floor ifthey can find fax machine,
right? So I tried to explain that to my
kids the other day. Man, I was like, I got into

(33:43):
sales. There was still such a thing as
fax broadcast. Yeah, for sure.
Late 90s. Probably thermal paper just
curling up at the bottom. Yep.
Curling up, falling under. They will never know that, yeah.
Exactly, I but my favorite storyabout my kids not understanding
things and and this is several, several years ago when they were

(34:03):
littler. My my boy loves popcorn.
And so in some conversation totally unassociated with
popcorn, I had mentioned that wedidn't have microwaves growing
up and he looked at me with the the craziest quizzical look and
said, how did you cook popcorn? He was.

(34:23):
It was magical like. We had the first microwave in my
neighborhood. Everybody, my cousin would come
over like and we play with that that we put.
I don't know how we didn't burn the house down, man.
We put all kind of crap in that thing, sparking like no battle I
was. I remember my mom going to a
microwave cooking class which islike come on.

(34:44):
Oh man. We had frozen TV dinners, man.
But you know the old latchkey kids, right?
I mean, we let ourselves in. Dad's working out of town in
construction. Mom's got a job.
Yep. Yep, Yeah.
Oh, it's yeah, it's it's funny. And now it's just changing even
faster. It's like it's crazy.
Like what's going on now with, like you said, AI and stuff.

(35:07):
I mean it. Tell my kids, like I would drive
from Houston back to the Academy, you know, with a paper
map, right? No satellite, no cell phones.
They're like paper. Like, like a pirate, you know,
navigating off of paper. Yeah.
Good old AAA man. I flip that thing over and
highlight your map. The trip Tick, Yeah.

(35:30):
I got a ticket. Somebody was asking online the
other day, like are these, you know, speed track by aircraft
real? And I was like the one time,
man, I took some Rd. from like Lubbock up on the Eastern
Colorado. So I just I didn't want to take
the 25. I just like I'm going to change
it up. And it was a straight shot, 2

(35:51):
lane Rd. wide open and I was hauling ass, man.
Like there's nobody out there and I'm coming up to a little
town. So I slow down and there's some
kind of state trooper or whatever sheriff over on the on
the side of the road. I pass and he lights me up and
I'm like, I am not speeding. Like what is going on?
So again, we got an aircraft, you know, clock you, blah, blah,

(36:13):
blah. I'm like, I was going that fast.
You know, I'm like, I didn't even argue, man.
Damn, this is like 9091, you know, like air.
These airplanes are really tracking a little Nissan truck
hauling ass through southeast Colorado.
Like why? Yeah, I don't know.
Well, that's the one. Yeah.
That's where you, that's where you saw him was where they wide

(36:34):
open spaces where they couldn't get coverage.
But yeah, why they cared, I don't know.
It's like. Yeah, my kids are like, what?
My daughter literally texted me last week.
She's in San Diego. She's just an hour away.
Like my check engine light just came on.
Is it OK? You know, she was getting home
at night. Is it OK like in the morning,
pick my friend up and then go chat?
I'm like, it's probably just theoil change.

(36:56):
Like you can drive your car. Right, right.
It's not smoking. Right, right.
Probably your emission stuff isn't working anymore, so
you're. It's like you'll be OK.
In the air. Oh my gosh, yeah, man.
I think, I think there's something too, like putting pen

(37:17):
to paper, you know, to learn math, even though we have
calculators. Like you got to engage with
humans somehow to understand howto leverage these digital tools.
You. Know because like that AI people
don't understand it. It's great content.
It's great it's a it's a great alternative to staring at a

(37:37):
blank screen and a blinking cursor.
But you got to you got to spruceit up, you know, and if you
don't know how to communicate with a human face to face, I
think people they're always going to struggle with so it's
fine with me. Let them, let them use these
tools. Well.
I feel like I stand out being a human.

(37:58):
And I think that's, and that's, that's certainly the the winners
and losers that are going to getsorted out here because I think
it commoditizes a lot of execution.
It commoditizes or, or, or increases productivity in a lot
of ways. But the people that are winning
with these tools are the people who are creative and understand

(38:18):
human emotion and can take thesetools and can keep them in the
productivity box, right, to makeme more effective, to allow me
to scale. But they still have the
creativity. And that's that is what I do
worry about. Like, you know, you see how we
were, we were Universal Studios several months back and we're

(38:44):
just down there and we're like, hey, kind of don't have anything
to do. So we popped in there, my
daughter's a little bit older. We're walking around and, and we
were shocked. Kids in strollers in a theme
park looking at an iPad. And so, so my fear is, you know,
from a very young age, we're just feeding content.

(39:07):
Like to your point, like we, youknow, even now, like I, I use
paper and pen. You know, there's, we don't like
think through anything. We yeah, we don't, we don't
write anything down. We don't sit in silence and and
yeah, and just start to think through things anymore.
We're just so used to getting fed.
And those people, you know, I don't know who's a Matrix fan,

(39:30):
but those are the people that become batteries, right?
Yeah, for the system, but the creative people will ultimately
win because they'll they'll be creative and smart to leverage
and scale things. So yeah, we're in a, we're in a
weird time. Creativity and curiosity.
Well, everybody's, yeah, they'reso amped up, like I've got 7

(39:50):
kids, right? And my youngest is 11.
And last week my wife was running some errands or whatever
and she was home and she came inthe office and she was petting
the dog and. It sounds like I go, no, you're
not like we have a timer on the iPad, right?
And and I wouldn't set the timer.
And she, she laid there on my floor for two hours asleep.

(40:13):
She fell asleep. You know, if she had an iPad,
she'd have been, she'd been awake and amped up.
But I mean, obviously she was tired.
You know what, go rest. Totally.
It's OK to be bored sometimes. It is, you know?
Let the mind. Wander, let the mind rest.
Yeah, for sure. And I think.
It's going to get harder and. Harder to do like I one thing,

(40:33):
you know, I, I, I talked to a lot of people about AI because
we are using a lot of stuff and we're building some companies
and things, you know, to, to leverage some of that stuff.
But but one thing that that I dokind of talk about a lot around,
you know, AI and, and that sort of stuff is a lot of times
people have this need, once theyget this productivity and all of

(40:57):
a sudden they can do things faster, they feel this
compulsion to do more faster. And what I keep telling
everybody, even people in my organization is like, yes, use
chat BT GB T make it save you time.
But with that extra time, and, and this is particularly with
sales organizations. I, I think sales organizations
should be running those transcripts through ChatGPT,

(41:21):
getting summarizations, getting feedback on the calls, and then
the sales directors who for years have not had time to sit
down one-on-one and do coaching sessions.
Use that extra time after you'verun your sales reports through
ChatGPT and saved 3 hours of trying to figure that stuff out
and go have a conversation with a Rep that's having trouble or

(41:43):
have some time to do some role-playing with one of your
top producers or have a conversation with a top producer
and figure out what's working with them and then communicate
to that to the other. So use that extra time to to
have more face to face person time.
That's why I tell everybody all the time, you heard me, I let
off with it. Let systems work leads because

(42:05):
that's data right now. And then people interact with
people, right? So figure out systems to get,
you know, people on your schedule.
Figure out systems to make sure your phone call goes through.
Figure out systems to to be ableto like have that holy cow
moment because you sent somebodysomething in the mail and they
opened it and it was thoughtful,right?

(42:27):
Yeah, like so. So you want to cut through the
noise? Send.
Something physical? Yep, totally.
So I think that's what use the productivity for that stuff.
Those are the people that are going to win because you like
you said early on in this, in this conversation, like the
noise, the noise, the noise, thenoise, cut through with silence,
cut through with difference, youknow, do something different, do

(42:50):
something unexpected. Like those are the people that
are winning. So I was talking about ads.
Are you, is that viable for most?
You know, are you seeing a shiftor are more people going to
that? Are they less effective?
Like what's what's your take on ads?
Yeah, A. Lot of like a lot of this stuff,
it's a little bit context dependent on the consumer side.

(43:13):
B to C ads are still our fastestway to revenue, right.
So that that works really well. Consumers are very receptive to
ads on the B to B side. I think in certain context it
can be effective, but generally on the B to B side, more of the

(43:33):
organic, again, LinkedIn organiccontent that then ranks through
search engine that now what we're doing is it's not really
search engines because a lot of particularly in, in in B2B and
our type of sales people are looking for full solutions.
So what I see people going to now is they're going to ChatGPT,
they're going to Gemini, they'regoing to these AI things to get

(43:56):
a more complete conversation about what the problem they're
trying to solve, especially in that solution discovery sort of
phase. And so being able to have your,
your content as an expert start to show up in the large language
models and ChatGPT and stuff like that is kind of what we're
we're spending a lot of our attention on in the B2B is
figuring out how to get that content into those channels.

(44:22):
And that's, that's a little bit of a trick.
Some of the old SEO, you know, things still work honestly, if
you can hold the quality high quantity is working now because
these these large language models are like starving for
information. So if you can take this is what
we're doing with a lot of companies is you can take

(44:44):
testimonials, reviews, case studies.
That's a proprietary data essentially inside of your
organization that the large language models can't get from
just scraping the Internet. So if I can write or create
content with some of that infused in it, these large
language models like suck that up and then all of a sudden in,

(45:04):
in somebody saying like, how do I make my sales operation, you
know, convert more or produce more revenue?
It's like a really big question if you you're going to get crap
from that from a Google search. But if you put that in ChatGPT,
you get a really nuanced response.
And if you ask it to source the materials, you know, Wes Shaffer
might pop up into that a couple times because you've got a

(45:25):
particular piece of content thathas a real world example, has a
real client testimonial for credibility and has an actual
case study. And that piece of content that
you put on your blog, again, some of the old school stuff
starting to work again gets sucked in there and you show up
in that sort of that big picturesort of conversation with an
LLM. So again, that's a really

(45:45):
simplistic example, but and thenif you're just, again, depending
on the scale, just having, you know, just having a lot of good
conversations and sharing some of that same nuanced content and
LinkedIn. And LinkedIn is, it's a channel
that's been asleep for a really long time so that you can get a

(46:06):
lot of reach just as an individual posting on LinkedIn,
you'll be shocked at how quick you'll grow an audience of
people following you, not even connecting, but following you.
So I, I think LinkedIn is in a very early stage of its growth.
So if you're B to B start to light up your profile and it, it
gives you, for sales people, it's, it's kind of like it gives

(46:29):
you the follower base or the audience base that becomes the
modern Rolodex, right? So if you change positions or
you change what you're doing or you change what you're selling
and you announce that in LinkedIn, this is one of my
favorite things that that I see work all the time.
If I change what I'm delivering and the solution, that audience
that maybe I wasn't right for before I make a change and I'm

(46:51):
selling some slightly different,Some of those people are like,
Hey, I trust Wes. I've been watching this stuff
for the last, you know, year or six months.
So again, it's organic, it's notscalable, it's not going to fill
your Commission check, but man, building up that base so that
when you do change, you can you have an audience to get that
pipeline sort of started with just announcing that change and

(47:14):
what you're doing and the new solution.
You'll find people come out of the woodwork that you didn't fit
with before, but now you do. So that's a another.
I'm using this interview. I'm like.
Hey, man, if Bill's full, call me 'cause I, I know this guy and
my phone's already. I just, I just did a press
release that I got Bill coming on and already I'm full for the

(47:35):
year. So it's, it's magic.
I should have connected. With you a long time ago.
Man, why? Why you been hiding from me all
this time? I tell you what, we're we're.
All in our little what we think we got a lot of reach until
until we don't. You know, it's dude.
It's so funny, right? I was God.
I forget I saw somebody recently, but they're not in
this space. I'm like, oh, do you know this
guy like this super popular things like Gary Vaynerchuk or

(47:58):
something like Nope, never heardof him.
Like what? You know, like there's just,
it's the same thing. Like I'm watching, you know,
American Idol with my daughter and my wife.
They went two weeks ago, some kids from her school were going,
so she wanted to go and it was free.
Like you can go to American Idolfor free.
My wife's like, what? So it was, you know, 90 minutes
and to drive there for us and, you know, you got to make a day

(48:20):
out of it because you got to getthere super early.
And, you know, they make you come in hours before the show
starts and blah, blah, blah. But but they went, you know, and
it was a lot of fun and but they're all these these people
are coming in to help with the show.
I'm like, who's that? You know, look at me.
That's like my number one album me over the nation, and I'm
like, I never heard that. Yeah, yeah, I.
Mean there's so many. Niches, yeah, you know, you can

(48:41):
just dominate and yeah, I think we forget be consistent, I think
we forget that too, like. I mean, to your point of like,
even knowing what like you and Iare doing or whatever.
So one thing, whenever I've kindof like hit a dip, one of my
favorite things to do, and then this kind of came to a

(49:01):
realization that all salespeopleshould be aware of.
Whenever I've hit a dip, one of the first thing I'll do is I'll
pull up 15 to 20 people that I know and I'll just tell them
like, hey, this is what I'm doing.
And if you know anybody, you know, I'd love, you know, for
your help getting me a referral.And invariably one or two of
those people are like, well, I need that.

(49:22):
So the the lesson learned from that, that I learned very early
and I do all the time is your best friends have no idea what
you do, right? And your network and the people
in your CRM probably have long since forgot what the heck you
do. So occasionally just reaching
out and reminding people, this is what I do and this is how I

(49:45):
solve problems. And this is the type of problems
that I solve. If you know anybody like this,
I'd love to hear from you. Always pulls out a deal or two.
So people, just people, I mean, we're all focused in on our own
world and what we do and what we're what's important to us and
we forget our friends and what they do.
So don't feel shy about like, reminding people of like, hey,

(50:06):
dude, I sell real estate. Oh, really?
Well, I've been looking for a place in Florida, you know, it's
like. So yeah, that's crazy.
Yeah, the little. Things.
It really is. Well, cool, man.
So you mentioned a couple of websites.
Where should people go? Do you want me to hit you up on
on LinkedIn? Do you want to go to one of your

(50:27):
websites? Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So depending on what you're interested in, if you're
interested in just like stuff that we've talked about and the
things that I'm seeing on the horizon and things that can
improve, I've been a big fan of the executive brief.
So like just having sort of a summarized trend.
So my executive brief.com is my newsletter.
If you're interested in what I do, Bill ricestrategy.com is a

(50:51):
great place to find me. And if you've got just a
question, I'm super easy to findon LinkedIn and I'm very
responsive. I'm not, I'm not shy of my
direct messages and connection requests.
So as long as you're trying dude, I sent you a request like.
Three years ago, you don't pull that on me.
You were blocking me that Oh, man, I can't let that stand.
What? Well, you know.

(51:12):
Classmates, sometimes, you know,you kind of got to talk through
them. There's some.
I digress. Don't get me on that tangent.
Oh my gosh, exactly all. Right, well, I'm going to grab
all those. URLs, they'll be in the show
notes, they'll be underneath theepisode, wherever you're
listening to. So just Scroll down and click.

(51:34):
Well, cool, man. I don't know if I'll get to
Michigan anytime soon, but if you come to Southern California,
look your brother up. I would love to we.
Always try to get out of here. We'll wait till the winter time,
but I always get out of the cold.
I'm always there at some point. So we'll we'll definitely
Kentucky to Ohio. Man, that's or into Michigan.
Yeah, that's rough, dude. Kentucky gets kind of cold.

(51:58):
Yeah, we get a little. Ice and stuff.
But yeah, I don't know. I don't know how I got this far
north. You know, the pecan pie is not
as good. A lot of a lot of downsides.
There's not a lot of Waffle Houses up here.
So, you know, I'm a little fish,dude.
There's no Waffle House out here.
My wife, though, she makes me grits.
So it's like, all right. And she's got my mom's, she's

(52:20):
got my mom's gumbo recipe, jambalaya recipe.
So, OK, the the real question. Though is my wife got it wrong.
Syrup or butter on your grits? Dude, that's a Midwest thing.
My did. Did you know Tony?
Micah, the name sounds. Familiar, but I'm OK.
He was a we were freshman. Classmates 4th degree and he's

(52:40):
from Iowa and he put sugar on his grits.
Whoa. I about slapped him.
I'm like, it's butter, salt and pepper, man that's it.
All right, you answered it right.
Put. Don't put no sweet.
Stuff on there and don't give meno like malto meal, whatever.
That stuff is nasty. Oh yeah, grits.
Let's watch My Cousin Vinny. What's a Brit?

(53:01):
Wife throws syrup on it. I'm.
Like what are you doing that goes on your waffle?
There's a reason you have waffles and grits.
Oh dude I I love. Butter I am, I don't know, year.
Or so. Ago maybe 2 years now, I mean I
went more meat. It's so funny like I had

(53:23):
slightly high cholesterol. I'm not crazy and and I started
doing my own research. You know, I get to VA physical
every year and it was it was inching up and they're like, you
know, eat less meat, eat more greens.
So I went like damn near all carnivore, you know, five eggs
plus sausage for breakfast, you know, fruit like no breads.

(53:46):
I found out I had that gluten issue cut out breads feel great.
My cholesterol dropped and they're like, keep doing what
you're doing. I didn't tell them anything,
right? I'm not going to fight that
fight. I'm like butter.
I'm. Telling you.
Bacon. I'm I'm.
With you. You know, my, my grandfather was
a farmer and I was like, there'sa reason farmers live forever

(54:06):
because they eat just regular food that your body has to do
the hard work to process and it all works.
It's just so don't. Maybe I should start smoking
like. Marlboro Reds.
Yeah, Don't, Don't get me. Started there.
I might have a cigar or two. So I am from Kentucky, so we
still got a little tobacco. I like cigars, yeah.
I've never been a smoker, but I mean, like our parents and

(54:27):
grandparents especially, you know, golly, they were just
tough. Yeah, my my grandfather.
Smoked Dutch masters till they died and, you know, he lived a
good old life. But yeah.
But the most thing is just, yeah, let your body process
leave, you know, back off the Twinkies and the Doritos and,
you know, do a little little hard work.

(54:47):
Anything you got to cook, it's usually a good, good.
I do like some Oreos. Hey, Oreos are vegan.
That's when I knew this. Whole thing was.
Bullshit man, Oreos are legit vegan.
Well. My biggest weakness is a
chocolate chip cookie, so I don't know if it's vegan, but
I'll I'll eat some sugar. I'll.
Eat ice cream and but I just. I got to cut back on the cookies

(55:10):
and cake. But ice cream's ice cream's
legit. Yeah.
All right. Man.
Fellow True Blue 92 Bill Rice away from what?
Monroe. Monroe, MI Monroe, MI is where
we're at right now. Out in the country a little bit.
So you got to do the mitten likeyou're like.
Over here I'm. I'm down here.
I'm like the. Last, the last spot, you know, I
guess on the camera it's down here, but the last, the last

(55:32):
spot before Ohio, so. Cool man, it was great catching
up with you. Always, always pleasure.
Hey, go, go sell something. I'm going to.
I'm going to. I got a sales call right after
this, believe it or not. Get on it all right.
Take care of Wes. Bye.
Look, when 2 old dogs that are still in the game or chatting,

(55:54):
reminiscing, commiserating, it'ssmart to listen up.
All right, I've got a group online on Facebook group and we
started a chat, you know, the chat messenger.
So I added that and a woman's like, how do I use this?
You know, so we just can, it's just another way to communicate,
right? Use it as a way to ask questions
or whatever in a more timely manner.

(56:16):
And she said this was 2 days ago.
She says what, what do I say to people that that question me?
Like why am I still doing things?
I guess she's 70 years old and she's still doing copywriting
and marketing and she says I don't want to quit.
Like I like what I'm doing. And so we went over a couple of
things. I gave her some feedback and she
appreciated it. And then I, I yesterday I saw a
thing on X and there is a Japanese sushi chef.

(56:42):
Don't say that fast. 10 * 99 years old and it's a 3, three
Michelins or whatever you call it.
I could three star rating and it's a little 10 seat restaurant
in a Tokyo subway. And he doesn't want to move.
He doesn't. Want to do anything different?
It's a $400.00 booking fee. He's booked out months in

(57:06):
advance. Barack Obama visited, said it
was the best sushi ever had in his life.
And the guy says he's seeking perfection.
He likes doing it, you know, So it's OK to be doing something
that you like. So now Bill and I are both 55.
But I mean, you know, we got Gray hair.
I'm a grandpa, but you know, we're still in the game.

(57:30):
And yeah, there's things coming out.
Technology, like my, my oldest, he's got a computer science
degree, He's in Silicon Valley, he's working in the crypto space
and he's much more on top of this stuff.
But I have been at it longer. I understand some of the bigger

(57:52):
principles. So, you know, find find that
happy medium of bleeding edge and solid improving, you know,
so I think we're we're doing that in a moderately decent,
successful way, you know, so I appreciate your watching.
And you know, again, if you needhelp growing your sales,

(58:16):
leveraging technology, but also focusing on that human to human
side of things, you know, you need to put that on my bio, you
know, H2H on H2OH2H human to human selling.
I think it's more important thanever.
Things are weird, man, with thisAI, things are getting weird.
I think face to face is coming back in style.

(58:37):
Live things, live webinars, live, you know, demos.
People are going to be searchingfor humanity.
It's in our DNA. And so, you know, find old dogs
like us. Let us help you get that done.
OK. I'll link to my daily
newsletter. Please avail yourself of that.

(58:58):
Be on the lookout for some othertools.
I've got the whisper starter pack.
I'm doing a one day session hereone-on-one that then rolls into
a 90 day support package. So if you want to get out of the
office, come to Socal, sip a little wine, we'll do some
jujitsu as well. You know, tackle your greatest

(59:18):
issues, sales, marketing and physical.
Look for that. OK, it's on my homepage.
You can navigate to there. But invest in yourself.
You know, we got crazy times. AI interest rates slow down in
real estate, people are harder to reach.
What do you do? What do you need to stand out?

(59:39):
I think getting away from the office, getting some new
perspective, focusing really hard for a day, then focusing
really hard for 1/4 might just move the needle for you.
I bet it does. Thanks for watching, I'll go
sell something.

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