Tim’s Take Episode 24 | Pesticide Safety

Do you know how to safely apply a pesticide? Do you know how to calibrate your sprayer? Join Tim Reinbott as he delves into these topics and more with Director Samuel Polly and Assistant Coordinator Daniel Sjarpe from the Pesticide Safety Education Program.

Transcript

Tim's Take Episode 24, Part One

Tim's Take Episode 24, Part Two

Every month, Tim Reinbott produces a podcast called Tim's Take. He invites a researcher, MU Extension Specialist, or an expert in the agricultural world to sit down with him and discuss hot topics.

The Missouri Agricultural Experiment Station (MOAES) extends CAFNR research to nearly 14,000 acres across the state to meet regional research and demonstration needs of agricultural producers and natural resource managers. MOAES has a storied history of major impacts in advancing science in agriculture, food and natural resources — locally, nationally and globally. These CAFNR laboratories provide research faculty with a wide variety of real-world conditions to test and develop strategies for agricultural production based on the geographical and climatic differences of our diverse state. 

Visit https://moaes.missouri.edu/ to learn more.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
[♫]
Well, welcome to Tim's Take! And today we have a couple wonderful guests. This is Sam Polly and
Daniel Sjarpe from the... let me get this right, Pesticide Safety Education Program.
(Daniel Sjarpe) Correct! (Samuel Polly) That's right! (Tim Reinbott) All right! And... and you're

(00:21):
with part of the Plant Science and Technology Division at the University of Missouri.
(Sam) Correct. (Tim) And you are the ones that keep us, uh... the farmer safe, their workers safe,
and the environment safe and the general public safe. (Sam) Right. (Dan) Oh, yeah. (Tim) And
through through education programs. (Sam) Yep. (Tim) And... and you work closely with Missouri

(00:44):
Department of Agriculture. (Sam) Uhhuh. (Tim) So what's the main things that you all do then?
Is this training? (Sam) Yeah, I would say training and education are the... the main
thing we do. And it's... but saying that, it's a very large encompassing world we have. Everything
from commercial applicators to private applicators to homeowners and even kids, so we teach the whole

(01:06):
gamut. It's a very unique role. Very broad. (Tim) And teaching them what? (Dan) Um... we... we...
we will teach them how to properly and legally apply all the different types of pesticides
because we don't just cover the... the private side or the commer... we also cover the commercial
side. And um... it is not just farm based. Like we actually teach all of... all of them, or are in

(01:30):
charge of... of that training. (Tim) So people can get both a commercial license... if you do it for
a living. I mean, if you're getting paid to do it. (Dan) Right. (Tim) Or if you're doing it just
for yourself, that's a private license. (Sam) Right. (Dan) Correct. Yes. (Tim) And it's the
same type of training for the most... for the most part, isn't it? (Sam) Yeah, and that's
one of the huge changes right now is there's been a little bit of discrepancy as far as the

(01:51):
standards. Commercial applicators typically train almost a full day, whereas private applicators
just spend two hours, as kind of an average. So now the EPA is bringing that up to speed,
so they're going to be more similar. (Tim) All right. So what kind of challenges do you all have,
not only with the training, but maybe with the programs itself? (Dan) Um... I'll let you go

(02:12):
first. (Sam) Okay. Well, the... I would say the biggest challenge is huge. It's really worldwide,
especially nationwide, and that is the big change that's happened over the last hundred years as
we've transitioned from an agrarian society. I mean... the world my grandparents grew up in where
everybody had a 40 to 400 acre ranch, and it was broken up into small farms... now we're looking

(02:35):
at these big 5,000... 10,000... 20,000 acre farms that are row crops of predominantly beans
and corn. And so what's happened is everybody's shifted to an urban society. And I... I saw that
in my hometown where all the dairy kids, all the beef kids, were going off to work for Amazon or,
you know, AT&T as IT people or, you know, graphic design or whatever. And so, we've seen this shift

(03:00):
where society no longer understands what it takes to raise a soybean plant or a carrot or a potato,
and with that comes this whole misunderstanding of what it takes to grow, and so people don't realize
the need for pest control. They don't realize how fast weeds can take over 10,000 acres of soybeans,
or how fast you... one of the cutworms can come in and wipe out your corn. And so with all the

(03:24):
commercials and advertising and a lot of public misconception, it's trained people to think, "Oh,
we don't need pesticides! They're evil. And why do we even have them? They're just poisoning, these
corporate farms are poisoning us!" And they don't realize the level of regulation and science and
research that's going into the original... like first of all, the development of the chemicals

(03:45):
that we use for pest control, and second of all, the actual application of them. And so when I was
a commercial applicator, I would have people walk down the sidewalk and, "Hey! I... I can't believe
what you're doing! You're... you're poisoning... ."And I would stop them and, "Really? That's
interesting. I didn't know that. Here let me show you something." I'd start showing them the label,
showing them my safety binder, and show them all my licenses and certifications, and their eyes

(04:06):
would literally pop out. They... they would tell me, "I had no idea!" And so it was this moment,
this light bulb moment, with these people to educate them, and I think that's the point where
like Dan and I are in a large scale. But even our applicators, our farmers... everyone has this
massive responsibility right now. It can't just be Dan and I. The two people can't reach the entire

(04:27):
state of Missouri or the entire United States. And so we're really starting to work very closely
with a lot of agencies (Missouri Department of Conservation, uh... Missouri Department of Natural
Resources, and other states, other universities) and gain this momentum of collaboration to say,
"Hey, we need to educate society before we lose all our chemicals." And they're coming off the

(04:47):
market as... as all these lawsuits and extra regulations come down, and so it's a... it's...
we're really at a tipping point right now. A unique time in society where our job as educators,
it's not just to train the... the applicators, the farmers and the commercial applicators,
"Here's how to be safe. Here's how to follow these new regulations," but, "Here's how to interface

(05:08):
with the public," and start to educate so we can turn the tide. I mean, the classic example is this
kid that showed up at my grandpa's house, and he said, "What are you doing?" He said, "Well, I'm...
I'm cutting these oranges in half to make orange juice." He said, "Don't give me that! Orange juice
comes from a cylinder in the grocery... grocery store in the freezer section!" And so that's
the mentality we have in society now. (Tim) Sure. Sure! And there's been some pesticides that have,

(05:34):
like you said, have been banned. (Dan) Right. (Tim) Because they lasted too long. I mean that's
one of them. I... I remember as a kid when the, uh... the... the... the chlorine based
in... insecticides were... were... heptachlor, for example, and... and I know my dad was... because
we used that in corn. That was a great corn insecticide, but I've heard the entomologist

(05:57):
say... this was... this was 50 years ago, saying it's still in our soil. (Sam) Uhhuh. (Tim) So
we... we don't use those... those organochlorines, I was trying to say.
Organophosphates have... have gone away also to a certain extent. So our new... our new pesticides,
they don't last in the environment very long, correct? I mean, it's pretty well, they want them

(06:18):
to do their job and go... go away. Break down. (Sam) Yeah, that's the trend. Right. (Tim) Break

down into... to the basic elements (06:22):
carbon,  nitrogen, oxygen. (Sam) Mmhm. Right. (Dan) Yeah,
that... there is noth... hopefully nothing still outthere that... that would have that 50 year hang
time like they used to. Yeah. (Tim) Or even even six... even six months. (Sam) Right. (Dan) Yeah,
unless they're a designated residual, of course. Like some of them will last that long,
but those are... they're meant to do that. Yeah. (Sam) Right. (Tim) And... and the amount you put

(06:44):
down is... that's what the... the label is the law, right? (Dan) Correct! The label is the law.
Thank you! (Tim) There's a reason now I might say, "Well, if a pint per acre does a good job,
why can't I put a quart per acre on?" The plants can handle it. My... my target crop can handle it,
but there's a reason for that, isn't there? (Sam) Right. (Dan) Yeah... yeah. That... that was...
that was the old logic, and it... that is illegal unless the label allows like an 8 ounce to 16,

(07:10):
that's how it rates and, um... but you still you have to be within that. You can't put 32
down. That is a illegal. (Sam) But that's one of the problems we still face. People think, "Oh,
these farmers and the golf courses, they're killing us! They use so many chemicals!" And
they don't realize homeowners are one of the biggest sources because they don't have the
same training level that commercial and private applicators have, and they don't take any classes,

(07:31):
so they go to any store, buy stuff off the shelf that's maybe not quite as concentrated, but then
they have that mentality. "Hey, man! That 1 ounce sort of worked. I'll use a pint!" And so we have
runoff of nutrients and pesticides going right down the gutter in... in town! And so you look at
some of the pollution in the creeks, well, a lot of that's probably from homeowners in the urban

(07:52):
settings! And I run into people all the time that say, "Man! These herbicides just... this brand,
I don't like it! It doesn't work. I keep blasting my driveway." I said, "Well, what weeds do you
have?" "Oh, I don't know. These... these like dandelion type things." And I go and look, and
it's not even a weed that's labeled. It's... or it has some specification like, "Do not use during
times of drought. Use in the spring when actively growing at a certain stage." And these homeowners

(08:14):
don't even think to go to an Extension agent or a botanist and find out what the weed is. Is it
on the label? What stage do I apply this? And so they're just blasting herbicide at the wrong time,
not even effective, and it's running right off in the rainstorm. (Tim) And... and that's a good
point. Our Extension, uh... Field Specialists, they're not just for the farmers. They're for

(08:35):
everybody. (Sam) Right. (Dan) Correct. Yes. (Tim) To use them... to use them as a resource to...
for the weed ID, for example. The pest ID because of the insects are involved in this, and diseases.
But also, uh... the rates to use. And... and when to use them. I... I know a good friend of mine,
uh... was talking about spraying insecticide on his tomatoes cuz it had these... these insects

(08:57):
with these big lacy wings on them. (Dan) Oh, my goodness! (Sam) Oh, no! (Dan) No, no! Those are
beneficials! (Tim) You took out your beneficials, you know. So I mean, so that education is... is
very important. And as we do move away from the people that have a farm background, we...
we are... we are moving away from that... that... that... that... that basic knowledge. But even...

(09:19):
even some of, uh... the farm background can... can get you in trouble too. Well, and that... and that
goes into misusing a... a product. (Dan) Right. (Tim) You know, if... if it's... it's not... an
insecticide is not supposed to be used on animals if it's not... if it's not labeled that way. And
so that... so that kind of happens too sometimes. (Dan) Yeah. (Sam) We see... we, you know, out

(09:43):
in society, I run into people, and they... they find out what me and Dan do, and they, you know,
"I... I was a farmer for 30 years, and we just... oh, I don't have time to put on gloves. It's not
that big a deal. It's just some chemical." And I mean, they'd wash their hands with gasoline
to get dirt off, and then they go and they're using pesticides, and they would describe the
herbicides running down their arms and dripping off, and they just wipe it off and keep going,

(10:06):
and it took them decades to slowly learn as, you know, their dad died of cancer or had some other
health problem, or just getting good education realizing... wow, there's a reason you put gloves
on! They do research on rats and mice and discover what this could possibly do to a mammal, and maybe
I shouldn't have had that stuff dripping into me! And a lot of people have mentalities like,

(10:26):
"Oh, insecticides are bad. This is herbicide. It's designed to kill plants." But they don't
realize the chemistry of those solvents designed to pierce cell walls, and who knows what even the
inactive ingredients are doing to your... your cells and your liver and everything! And so I get these
applicators, "Like man! I never wore gloves for 20 years, and I finally realized once I started
getting skin rashes. Oh! I should have been! Now I wear gloves." And so they praise Dan and I for

(10:50):
what we do like, "Thank you for trying to reach the current generation because we didn't know,
and we really blew it!" Now they have skin sensitivities and problems like that. (Tim) Well,
and there's acute exposure and chronic exposure. (Dan) Correct. Yes. (Tim) And it's that chronic
that... that continuing exposure, that's where you can get into trouble. (Sam) Yeah,
because you can't see it usually. It doesn't show up. "Oh, I... I haven't ever had any problem. I...

(11:13):
I mix... mix this pesticide in the tank with my arm! You know, it doesn't hurt me!" But it
is slowly hurting. You just can't see that. (Tim) And... and that's what we did 30... 40... 50 years
ago. (Dan) Exactly. (Tim) And, uh... and then... and also the... the... the amount you mix up,
you want to be able to use what you've mixed up. (Dan) Correct. (Sam) Yes. (Tim) You don't want
to... for one thing, it's... it's expensive. (Sam) Yeah. (Dan) Mhm. (Tim) But then how do

(11:37):
you deal with what you have? (Sam) Uhhuh. (Tim) And what do... what do... do you do? You can...
you can... it's legal to put it on a... the labeled crop. (Sam) Right. (Tim) You can do
that. (Dan) Yes. (Sam) Right. (Tim) And if you have leftovers, still what do you do? (Sam) Yeah,
I... I had a great benefit when I was a commercial applicator is I had basically an unlimited list
of clients, so we... we would work very hard to calibrate our equipment, so we knew exactly how

(12:02):
much it would put out, and we would look at the size of the... the target crop we were going to
spray that day, or maybe we had three clients we were going to spray. And so we would very closely
calculate how much we were going to put out, so we would usually come pretty close. But once in
a while, "Oh, man! I got 50 gallons left over!" Or 200 gallons left over, call the next client, "Hey,
we didn't have it scheduled to hit you guys today, but is it okay for us to drop by?" "Absolutely! We

(12:26):
love for you to show up early!" You know, three days early. So we go out and use up the rest, and
say, spray a quarter of their crop, and then, "All right, we... we got a quarter of your crop done
3 days early. We'll be back on the schedule day to finish up." They're like, "Cool! Thanks!" They were
always happy to have us show up days early, and then we used up that crop legally on a legal crop
that was labeled, and that's how we would finish off our spray. So we had a great benefit. But even

(12:50):
the homeowner, "Oops! I have a half gallon left." If you have a good, you know, some good neighbors,
say, "Hey! Do you guys need some extra spray? I'll come over and do it myself." Use it up on
their same... like say it's a lawn application. You know, go use it up on their lawn. Now it's
used up on a legal, labeled crop, and now you don't have that extra sitting in the garage for some kid
to get into or to dump over or plug your lines or whatever. (Tim) And calibration is the...

(13:15):
is the key. (Dan) Oh, yeah. Calibration is so important. Especially to make sure that you have,
uh... in good condition tips... spray tips in particular, especially for farmers because seeing
some of that research is like, wow. That only looks very lightly off, but it's putting out like
twice as much as it should, which means they're trying to save. Cuz tips are like $7! They used to

(13:36):
be .70 cents even 10 years ago when I used to purchase them in bulk and, um... yeah. And they're trying
to save that six, basically $7, not realizing that they're putting down an extra $700 in chemicals
sometimes. (Sam) Right. (Dan) Yeah. (Tim) You know, around the house while I use a backpack
sprayer, I got to realize, I'm probably putting down 30 gallons per acre. You know, I mean... you

(13:57):
got to realize, I got a very dilute solution to actually... for this to come out right, or I'll
be way over applied. (Sam) Right. (Dan) Yeah, cuz that... that's... that's part of the trick with
that calibration. It's one thing for a farmer that's calibrating, but he knows he's putting
out 10... 15... 20 gallons per acre, versus in your case, the... the label probably says until wet

(14:18):
or drenched or something like that. Yeah, yeah! And that's very different! (Tim) So you want to
go very dilute then. (Dan) Yeah, exactly. (Tim) Now and tank contamination. That... that's a huge
issue. Let's not get started on that, huh? (Sam) Yeah, I don't like talking about that one! But,
yeah. Classic example. So I worked for a large landscape company. The biggest landscape company

(14:38):
in the nation. And one evening one of my guys got back with... oh, I forget. I think it was a 500
gallon tank. He's like, "Oh, man! I'm so tired! It with a long day. I'll rinse it first thing in the
morning." And then he slept in. I show up, jump in the spray rig assuming we always dealt with
the spray the night before, rinse the tank, had it ready to go. I jumped in and went out to spray

(14:58):
2,4-D, not realizing my lines had glyphosate! And I went out and nuked somebody's lawn! Lawn company
manager goes, "Hey, uh... is there a reason a big section of our lawn is brown and dead?" "Like,
there shouldn't be!" I go and investigate like, 'Oh, I know what happened." It was brutal! And
Dan and I see that right here on campuses and landscapes and right in Columbia, Missouri,

(15:19):
you know. Oh, look at those strips of death somebody had some left over in the lines or a leak
or whatever, and they nuked their lawn. (Tim) You know, my rule of thumb, I always assume the person
didn't clean it out. (Dan) Right. (Tim) Unless I see them clean it out or know them well enough,
but even then... again, they could get distracted, something could happen and it didn't, they
didn't get that done. (Sam) Right. (Tim) So tank contamination, drift, overspray... those are all

(15:45):
some issues that... but having this training helps people... (Sam) Right. (Tim) ...at least be aware,
and how they can overcome some of these things. (Sam) Yeah. And we see that, the light bulb come
on, whether it's Master Gardeners, or homeowners at a horticulture event, or producers, is
technique. People don't think about technique and how much are you overlapping, you know. If you're
overlapping your swath, then you're going to be... get double application. And maybe you want to do

(16:10):
that on purpose, but you better make sure it's even. And like homeowners, we... we did a Master
Gardener Advanced Pesticide Training recently, and I got out a backpack sprayer and showed how to
calibrate. Calibration scares people. Oh, that's a big word! It's not that complicated. You just need
to see how to do it. And so we taught that, and you can just see people, "Wow! I didn't know how
you do this!" As we like, walk the swath, time, you know, a thousand foot area with a backpack

(16:33):
sprayer. And people go walking down the sidewalk to spray the weeds in the cracks, and they're
doing... I call it the 'pesticide dance'. They're jumping back and forth, like one... two... three!
Triple over apply. Quadruple over apply. And then they move on to the next spot. Like, no! Just one,
nice, even swath, and those plants are dead. You don't need to triple or quadruple over apply. And

(16:54):
people just don't know these things. They read the label, and it doesn't show you how to apply.
And so that's the benefit of pesticide safety training, whether a full day commercial applicator
or a 1 hour with some homeowners. They, "Oh, wow! Now I actually see how to do this!" We get to go
out and see this, or watch a video or whatever the venue is. It's amazing! (Tim) Are there any

(17:15):
videos online that... that... that show how to calibrate homeowners or... or... ? (Sam) There's
quite a few. Like I know, uh... I think it was Rusty and Gatlin did one a few years ago,
and it was for small... (Tim) Our Agronomy Field Specialist. (Sam) Right. They did one on a small
tractor sprayer. How to... how to calibrate. I think between us and all of our other 50 states,

(17:36):
we have a lot of videos out there. You can usually find like at least three states on any topic like
that that'll... "Here's how you do it!" They do a quick five minute YouTube video. So there's a
lot of resources out there. (Tim) So how do you deal with the... the right to farm? If... if
I'm a organic grower right next to a commercial, how does that... how does that work? (Sam) That's

(17:59):
been really rough. I mean, and with, and you think about the average day, there's been some studies
done looking at, let's just say, last year the wind records for the main growing season. There
really aren't a lot of days available where the wind is within 3 to 10 miles an hour. And
so a lot of farmers like, "I have to get these... these thousand or 5,000 or 10,000 acres sprayed.
So I know the wind's a little more than it should be today, but I better just get it done!" That's

(18:24):
when you have that drift event, and if you're an organic farmer right next to the 2,4-D farmer,
you're hurting. And it's a rough deal, and it doesn't always come out well. And that's where,
I think, we really need to see more collaboration and good neighbor working together. And honestly,
I think a lot of time what's happened over the last, I don't know, 10 years or so, is
organic farmers like, "I... I can't be here. I'm surrounded by these farmers with these products,

(18:49):
and I get hit, so I'm going to move." For example, we didn't do this on purpose, but my wife and I
bought a house out near Fulton. We're out in the woods. We have farmers around us. They have corn
and soybeans, but they're three miles away through an oak forest, and we never get drift because...
well, first of all, they're using products that don't drift as much. But second of all,
we have four massive amounts of forest between us and those row crops, and so we just don't get

(19:13):
drift. I've visited people up, you know, north of Columbia where they're surrounded by corn
and soybeans, and their plants are all curled up in their garden every year. So I think you have
to kind of cluster. You know, organic farmers need to be an area where they're surrounded by
some hickory oak forest. And... or you know, Ozarks is a classic example. You can... it's
a lot easier to do specialty crops on 3 acres of maybe a little... a miniature valley tucked away in

(19:39):
the hills than it is out in the open flat plains where you're surrounded by the big row crops. And
so I think over time, people have shifted so most of your organic crops, or at least a lot of them,
are in those safe spots where they're next to three other organic farmers, and their beehives
are there not worried about insecticides drifting, and... and, uh... but it's... it's all about
kind of the habitat and the landscape these days. (Dan) And there are nice resources out there. Like

(20:03):
what I think Sam might have mentioned already was there are things like FieldCheck where you can put
where your organic stuff is. And also BeeCheck where you can put like beehives and stuff,
and then the farmers can check that and be like, "Oh! I should reach out to that person and let
them know when I'm spraying." (Sam) That's a great resource! And I still find a lot of people aren't
aware of it. So you go to FieldWatch.com, and then they have the BeeCheck, and the field... there's

(20:24):
four different ones. And so you can register your beehives or your organic crop or whatever
and then, yeah. The applicators, especially aerial guys or, um... different commercial
applicators can look on there, "Oh! Okay. I better call that person and check in with them. Hey,
I'm going to be spraying on Thursday. I've checked the wind. It's flowing this way." "Okay, thanks!"
People can cover up their beehives. So it's a really great communication tool, and I think

(20:45):
more and more people are starting to use that. (Tim) But under most conditions, the pesticides
don't go that far. (Sam) Right. They shouldn't. (Dan) As long as you're applying it properly.
Yes. (Tim) Right. Right. If you're... if you're within the... the eight miles per hour wind speed,
you... I mean, what? Maybe 20 feet? (Sam) I didn't even have... when I was a commercial applicator, I

(21:06):
never got a single drift complaint, and I never... I would go out and check my sites, and I... I was
just right on target. I was calibrating probably weekly, making sure my equipment... I didn't have
a blown or worn tip, that or plugged, and we knew exactly how much to put down. We were watching
the wind. And there's other things you can do. Let's just say the wind's going 12 miles hour.
Like, man! Our schedule, we're so booked up! You can start spraying up wind a little bit so that

(21:29):
the drift is hitting your target. You know, you don't have to go right on that edge, so you're
going 20 feet off the downwind side. So there are different things you can do to apply properly. So
not only following the label, but just having good field experience and good technique, it can be
avoided. (Tim) I know I've, uh... dropped the... dropped the boom before. (Dan) Yes. (Tim) Trying
to... (Sam) Right. (Tim) ...trying to get the... because if it is on the... on the... on... on the

(21:53):
edge, I can... I can gain some... some that way. (Sam) Right. And the other thing I would do is,
you know, lower my pressure and just have bigger droplet size. You might not get quite
the percentage of coverage you... you would have otherwise with the finer drops, but now you're
dropping it straight down. It falls through the air. It doesn't, you know, drift. So there's a
lot of things you can do. Pressure, droplet size, dropping the boom... exactly. (Tim) Or... or even

(22:15):
put more gallons per acre, so you can drop your... you can drop your pressure. You can... you can...
you can... there are things. And this is what they learn. That's why people that have that spray
either have a private or commercial applicator's license. (Dan) Yes. (Tim) So... so they have this
training. (Sam) Right. (Tim) All right. Well, we... we'll stop right now, and we're going to
pick up with some of your... more of the training part. That... that's a good segue into... into

(22:39):
what you all do. (Dan) All right. (Tim) And... and the challenges and what? Like the new categories
that are coming up, and the youth program, and... and really what's happening in society.
Now since you are in this, uh... this... this... this applicator training, tell us a little bit
about the different categories and some challenges that... and some... maybe some... some... some new

(23:00):
things are... that are happening. (Dan) So, um... coming up starting January 1st, 2025,
there will actually be three new categories. Um... so they will be the aerial categories.
So all aerial applicators will need that. That includes both pilots in a traditional, uh...
fixed-wing plane (so like the air tractors and stuff like that) and also drone operators. Yes,

(23:24):
so that... (Tim) So drone has to have a aerial applicator's license. (Dan) Yes. Um... uh... and,
um... yeah. So we're very glad. But... but that, that is a, uh... so that... that is a very big
change. A... another two will be a specific, um... uh... non-soil, um... uh... category for private.
So... so now private applicator training will need to have a second, uh... private applicator,

(23:48):
uh... category in like, in the grain bin... or I'm sorry, in the non-soil fumigation, which is for
the vast majority of people that will need that, it will be for grain bin fumigation. (Tim) Okay,
so if you... if you have grain bins, and you're going to use fumigations for insects,
you've got to have this, even... even if you're a private applicator, you've got
to have this endorsement. (Dan) Yes. Correct. (Tim) It's more of endorsement, right? On your

(24:11):
private applicator license? (Sam) It's actually a category. So it's just like if you had forestry or
right-of-way or ornamental and turf agriculture, it's a new category. (Tim) Oh, wow! (Sam) So what
they've done is now private applicators will have to have categories just like the commercial. So
the private applicator license itself covers all your agriculture in general, but... so it's...

(24:32):
that's a little bit different than like forestry or a right-of-way spraying the highways, but if
you're going to do aerial, either a commercial or a private applicator, both those individuals
would have to get that aerial category. So categories don't just apply to commercial
anymore. (Tim) So let's say I'm a farmer, and I have my private license and my fumigation

(24:52):
license too. Do all my employees have to have the license or can they operate under me? (Sam) That's
a great question! That's the question of the century! (Tim) All right! (Sam) Dan,
you want to answer that? (Dan) Um... so there is going to be a new requirement for those people.
You can no... starting January 1st, 2025, you can no longer spray under somebody else's license,

(25:15):
like under their umbrella. (Tim) Oooh! (Dan) Um... yeah. So they... (Tim) So like, I let my license
expire. So I might start get... I can't... so I always put your name down, Dan. (laughing)
I figure I won't go to prison that way. (Dan) Um, no. So... so actually, um... uh... so you

(25:36):
and everybody else... else out there, you know. I'm, uh... will... (Tim) His license number
is... (laughing) (Dan) I actually do know it. I almost said it! (Tim) I did too! (Dan) But ...but,
yeah. So all of those people could either get their own license, which is, um... um... or
they can get this, it's we call it the NRUP. So it's non... non-certified, restricted-use,

(26:00):
pesticide... license? (Sam) Applicator. (Dan) Applicator. Um... so they will...
(Tim) Nonrestricted use! (Sam) Right. (Tim) So no atrazines. (Dan) Um... (Tim) That's restricted
use herbicide. (Dan) No, no, no. Actually it is, the 'N' stands for, um... 'non-certified'.
So... so it... they need it if they are using restricted-use pesticides. Thank... thank you
for asking that. (Tim) Okay. Okay. (Dan) Yeah, so it will it will indeed allow them to use

(26:24):
the restricted-use pesticides, but it... it will require its own training and, um... companies will
be allowed to make their own, but it will be... it's like 25 or so different competency standards,
which is a lot. Um... so. (Sam) And it will be an annual training. So if you get your
commercial applicator's license, you'll be good for 3 years. If you get a private applicator's license,

(26:46):
you'll be good for 5 years. If you don't take the exam, say for commercial applicator's license, and
then do your recertification every three years, you'll have to do this NRUP training every
year. So it's a way of not having to take a test or, you know... it's a different type of training,
but it's an annual training. We... (Tim) So if I work for a farmer, am I... do I have a commercial

(27:09):
applicator's license or do I have a private? (Sam) Normally you'd have a private. (Tim) Since I'm
working for the farmer? (Sam) Yeah. (Tim) But if I'm working for the local co-op,
I have a commercial. (Sam) Right. Exactly. That's a good differentiation. There's a lot of confusion
about that. (Tim) Yeah, so if it's part of my duties as an employee with this farmer, I can have
a private. (Sam) Right. And we could complicate that even further. If you work for the University,

(27:30):
or Missouri Department of Conservation, or MoDOT, then you'd have a public operator's license which
is... it's like a type of commercial applicator's license, but it... you're not doing it for
hire. (Tim) It... and well, that's a great point! And only public operators with the
research endorsement are... are... can get off label. (Dan) Correct. Yes. With their category 10,

(27:53):
um... demonstration research category. (Tim) That's the only way. (Dan) Correct. Yes.
That's how you and I can use experimentals. (Tim) Right. Right. (Dan) Out there. Yep. Yep! (Tim) And
try because... so we can try some things. (Dan) Exactly. Yes. Yes. Exper... yes, under researched,
um... (Tim) But only under public research. (Dan) Exactly. Correct. (Tim) That's great. All right.
So you... the other one though is soil fumigation. That's changing. (Dan) So... so, yes. Yes,

(28:16):
so that now... now there will be their own, um... category for... the private will need that... that
sec... that extra, excuse me! That... that extra category, um... as well now. (Tim) And we see that
more like in, uh... vegetable production, I would say. (Sam) Yeah, that's... it's something that,
you know, on the coastal states where they're growing strawberries and those kinds of crops.

(28:36):
There's, I mean, I used to be involved in methyl bromide fumigation. It was huge thing. It was,
I mean, a very... it was scary because that stuff is about as toxic a chemical as it gets, and we
would put chloropicrin in with methyl bromide, and you fly across a field in this... looks like a
military tracked vehicle blasting this stuff into the soil several inches, and it tarps it over so

(28:58):
that it's trapped inside the soil. And then we'd go back... oh, a couple weeks later after it had
gassed off, and you'd slice the tarps with a QuadRunner, and when that chloropicrin came out, it
could knock you off that QuadRunner. It was just, poof! (Tim) And chloropicrin is what? (Sam) It's
a fumigant, but it's a... it's an indicator fumigant that has... methyl bromide has no smell,
so if you walk into a field of it, you'll just drop dead on the spot. So the chloropicrin gases

(29:22):
off, and it burns your... it's like mustard gas or... it makes you instantly... your eyes water
and you choke, "Uh-oh! I'm in a gas cloud! I better run!" And it... it indicates that you
need to get out of there. So that stuff was... but it also is a fumigant that helps the methyl
bromides. So they would do, you know, a hundred acres of strawberries, timber, bulb crops... some

(29:42):
of those types of specialty... (Tim) More nursery type crops. (Sam) Yeah. But you don't see as much
of that in the Midwest, you know. We're mostly the bigger row crops. Even our specialty crops,
just not a lot of fumigation happening here. But as you know, those... some of those crops start
coming in, then now there's a category ready to go so people would have to have that to do the soil

(30:03):
fumigation. (Tim) All right. Well, you know, uh... when you look at our history, I remember as a kid,
we had the mosquito trucks. (Sam) Oh, yeah. (Tim) And we would chase them! You know,
you see this fume coming out, you want to chase it, and but... just... you just don't
see that kind of thing anymore for the... for the better. (Sam) Exactly. (Tim) Because we are trying

(30:25):
to protect our environment and each other. (Dan) Correct. Yes. (Tim) And as you mentioned, farmers
are... are following the label because pesticides are expensive. And they've got... so they've got
to minimize what they use. Use just what... just what they need. But we can sometimes get, um...
homeowners not understanding what... what they're working with, and that's where our education comes

(30:48):
in too. Continuous education that we can work with. But so, that leads to that you're starting
to... a youth program to help train the... train the youth to understand this. (Sam) Right. (Dan)
Correct. (Tim) So... so... so tell us about that! (Sam) That's one of the things when I came in just
over three years ago, I saw... okay, we train commercial applicators and private applicators,

(31:09):
but the kids are the future! You know, the youth! And we've got organizations like FFA and 4-H,
and then even just the public school system where there's all this potential to reach these kids.
One of the biggest things that terrified me was the pandemic. When covid hit, I instantly knew
there would be millions of people around the world with their Lysol and their different sanitizers,

(31:31):
spraying this stuff in the air with no respirator, breathing it in, using hand wipes, Lysol wipes and
other disinfectant wipes, no gloves, soaking those chemicals right through their skin,
and you have to think, if that chemical is designed to kill a virus or a bacteria or a
fungus, what's it doing as it soaks through your skin? And, we don't know! You know, it's... we're
this giant experiment. But I knew just from my pesticide background, we should be wearing gloves!

(31:56):
We should be wearing at least a N95 mask! And nobody was. And so the health effects, I think,
are going to be greater probably down the road from the stuff people were using than the covid
itself! And, uh... that just showed me, we need to teach society a safety culture and a chemical... a
respect for chemicals of all kinds (disinfectants, cleaners and pesticides). And so I... I talked

(32:20):
with I think it was, uh... Todd Lorenz, one of our Field Specialists in Agronomy. I said,
"We need to start a youth program!" He said, "Absolutely, we do. Maybe in a couple years
when we get through some of this stuff." Well, fast forward to a couple of people calling me
from Cattleman's Association, "Hey! We got these events coming up. Can you come and teach?" I said,
"I can't pass up this opportunity! Now's the time!" So in like two weeks, I scrambled and wrote

(32:40):
an outline, thought up some ideas, scrambled around to some of the department stores,
bought some materials, built this package, and rushed off to train these kids. And I was stunned!
I thought the modern kid with all the video games and entertainment and TikTok, they won't
be engaged. It'll be hard to keep their attention. And they were coming up to me and shaking my hand,
going, "You were the best presenter at this whole conference or whole field day!" And we had... Dan

(33:03):
and I, when he joined me a year and a half later, we had kids yelling, "Do it again! Do it again!",
at our demonstration. (Tim) Were you blowing something up? (Sam) Yeah! (Tim) Okay! (Sam) They
love that! But even the... the... we just figured out how to engage the kids by saying, "Okay, is
this a pesticide?", and we pulled something out of a tub. "Oh, yeah! That's definitely a pesticide!"
Green liquid in a bottle. No, this isn't. No EPA number, doesn't claim to kill anything. Now,

(33:26):
how about this? And pull out something that's maybe the same brand, but it is a pesticide.
"No! That... you already showed us one like that. That's not a pesticide." Actually, says kills 99%
of all viruses and... and disinfects, and then it has an EPA registration number. "Oh!!!",
and you can just see the light bulbs going on, and we have their attention. And we have some
cool posters my wife made, and different teaching techniques to keep them engaged, and we really...

(33:50):
you can see those light bulbs come up. "Oh! Chemicals aren't something we want to drink
or get in our skin. We need to wear some safety equipment. Think about where we're storing it,
so little three-year-old Johnny doesn't come and get in the cupboard and try drinking it." And so,
it's been a great experience, and now we've started to spread it so that our ornamental
hortic... our horticulture and, uh... and agronomy field specialists can take this package and go out

(34:13):
and train at a field day in their region of the state. So it's been really exciting... really
well received. (Dan) Um... another cool thing when we... when we break out the "Is it a pesticide?"
is, uh... especially the older kids that you can tell have little brothers and sisters is like,
we will show something obviously not a pesticide, like literally Hi-C, the... the... the... the
juice drink, or a Gatorade (we've got a Gatorade in a different one of the kits), and then we

(34:36):
pull out a chemical right... right behind it, and he's like, "You guys... you guys see'n this? You
see these oranges? They're both the same orange!" or, "They're both the same yellow! Don't let your
little brother or sister get into this thinking it's this!" (Tim) And that's why you do not ever,
ever put a pesticide out of the original... (Sam) Right! (Tim) ...label... you know, your container.
You don't... you don't split it up! (Dan) Exactly! Yeah, and never, especially not a food container!

(35:00):
Um... never store pesticides in a food container just because you'll be back later. Never do
that! Both Sam and I have personal stories about that. (Sam) And even one of the recent paraquat
poisonings, a guy, he was getting done for the day, he's like, "Okay. Nobody... everybody's gone
for the day, I'll just dump it in this coffee mug." He dumped some paraquat in his coffee
mug. He said, "I... you know, I know it's there." Oh... well, we're creatures of habit. This is how

(35:24):
all kinds of tragedies happen. So he's doing some paperwork and stuff, and reflexively reached for
that coffee mug, took a drink, "Oh, no!!!", and he realized what he had done, "I got to get to the
ER!" And he rushed to the ER. He was done. I think he lasted 15 days because he got to the ER quick,
but he was dead within a week or two. (Tim) Oh, my goodness! (Sam) And it's just... they even
with modern technology and medical, they... they can't reverse that, and he died. And there's been

(35:48):
a number... (Tim) Oh, gosh! (Sam) ...of poison with some of the pesti... more concentrated,
toxic pesticides where people do something like that, "Oh! I'll be okay! I know it's right there,"
but you reflexively go for that coffee mug or the water bottle or Gatorade bottle, and it...
it's still happening! And that's why it's critical for us to try to tell these stories and show these
pictures and get across to society that we need to build a safety culture that you train yourself.

(36:12):
Just don't do that in the first place. Just put your gloves on to start with. Just... you know,
follow the label. There's a reason these things are on the label. (Tim) Do you talk
to them about like LD50's? (Sam) Yeah. (Dan) Yes. Yes, and... and the biggest thing is, is we make
darn sure to explain what that means because most people have no idea. It's like, "Well,
I'm... well... well, I'm healthy. I'm not in the 50% that's going to die." It's like... it's like,

(36:35):
doesn't work that way. (Tim) So, Dan... LD50 is on aspirin. It's on pesticides. It's on
everything... maybe except for water. I don't know. (Dan) There is actually one on that too.
Yeah. (Tim) So what is the LD50? (Dan) So... so the LD50 is: the LD is lethal dose. So what it is,
is the lethal dose that will kill 50% of... it's usua... the... the test is usually done

(36:59):
in laboratory mice or rats. (Tim) Is it... is it on per kilogram or pound or... " (Dan) So,
they will be labeled differently, but most of them are based on milligrams per kilogram.
Um... (Tim) Parts per million? (Dan) Yes! Parts per million! Yes, exactly! Parts per million. Yep!
So PPM (parts per million). Um... (Tim) Hey! I... I did chemistry! (Dan) Oh, yeah. Yeah! That...
there are so many acronyms that we talk about, we always got to make sure to... to define them. But,

(37:22):
yeah. So there is LD50's on basically everything. There is even as... as Tim made the joke earlier,
there is even an LD50 on water, but the amount of water it takes that you have to drink to actually
kill half the people is so high that it like can't happen. I... I drink a lot of water. I drink like
two and a half gallons a day sometimes, and I'm still nowhere near it. But the interesting thing

(37:44):
with the LD50 is, in our trainings we actually, um... show... show a table sometimes when we show
the different things, and it's like there's a lot of legal products that the LD50 is really low.
Like we always make sure to say caffeine, nicotine in particular, and then obviously, pesticides as
well on there. (Tim) And... and sometimes like the, uh... uh... aspirins and such are much...

(38:06):
a lower LD50 is bad, right? (Dan) Yes. Yeah, a lower LD50 means it takes less to kill you. So,
yes. (Tim)So if it's like a five versus a 500, the five is... is... takes... doesn't take much
to kill you. (Dan) Yeah, exactly. That's why it's so important to even read the label on stuff like
aspirin or Tylenol or whatever. Yeah. If it says take no more than the... take no more than two or

(38:28):
three, or six a day is quite often... don't! Hence the label! (Tim) There's a reason for
that. (Dan) Exactly. Yes. (Sam) That brings up another really great point, is we get a lot of
people increasingly go, "Well, I don't even use pesticides. I only use natural products because
they're safe. I'm only organic because it's safe," and I show a picture of this copperhead, a big
three-foot copperhead that was on my property that I almost grabbed. And it was coiled up ready

(38:51):
to strike, and I say, "Well, this is one of my local rodent control agents. He kills rodents,
and his pesticide he uses is natural. Is it safe? It's pit viper venom. It's deadly!" And so think
about py... pyrethrins, and um... some of the nicotinoids. Some of these organic materials are
lethal, and they're also cancerous. There's really not a huge divide between organic and conventional

(39:14):
products. I... and we ask the kids, "Take this pyrethroid. Would you want to drink this? Look
at what the label says, and what this has done to lab animals." It doesn't matter what it is. Put
your gloves on. Don't drink it. Don't put it in a coke bottle. Follow the label. And boy! Especially
homeowners, you can see that light bulb, "I never thought about this before!" I said, "Yeah. Respect

(39:35):
your chemicals regardless of what they are." (Tim) You know what, uh... this diverts a little bit...
diverges a little bit. What really opened my eyes on soil health, I... I do a lot of soil health
now. If you know me, a lot of my research, you... you know, revolves around it. But it was a dozen
or more years ago, you know, we had the tomatoes for the Tomato Fest. We had a one of those summers

(39:58):
that we constantly had disease issues. I was spraying the tomatoes constantly. Rotating my,
um... fungicides like I supposed to, but still couldn't keep... keep up with it. It was so...
it was... it was warm and... and... and humid. I had some friends of mine that had tomatoes,
and they had no disease. None! I... I rolled... I... I crawled out in there and they said, "Yeah,

(40:22):
you can see some little bit on the lower leaves," but the plant was handling it. And they kept
talking about, "Well, we used worm castings. We used... ". And that plant was so healthy,
it could overcome a lot of these challenges. (Dan) Right. (Tim) So, but that's where we go sometimes
if we manage our crops right, whether it's... what's, you know, what's... it's... if... if it's

(40:43):
our vegetables or our flowers or our lawn, a plant can overcome a lot. (Sam) Right.
(Tim) We don't have to try to kill every... every fungi and bacteria that... that... that comes
around. (Sam) Yeah. That brings up a good point. When I was an arborist and working in
the ornamental and turf industry, I would roll up on a job, and I'd have a work order: "Spray trees
for scale with organophosphate." And I'd meet the manager, and I'd walk the property. "Let's

(41:09):
just scout this out before I mix my chemical cuz I want to make sure this work order is correct." And
often times it was not! Sometimes you would walk out and you would find, look at this! Parasitic
wasps have obliterated 90% of your pest. I'm not going to spray today. It's the game is already
over. Other times you would find, okay... there are no insects here. Look at these tree roots.
They've been sheared by the lawnmower, and then the backpack sprayer guys hitting the weeds have

(41:33):
hit those roots, and they're sucking glyphosate right up into the tree. This is herbicide damage.
And other times, you know, it was a different insect than they even... even said. And so,
what I would do often times in those different situations, okay... we do have a problem. It's
not what was written on this work order, but we need to inject some mycorrhizal fungi. I can
see you got some zinc deficiency on here. Let's get these micronutrients up to par. Your pH is a

(41:55):
little off. We would do soil amending, couple months later you'd see those trees recovering,
didn't need to spray any insecticide or fungicide. And if there was a pest present, it usually backed
off just from the soil health. So that was a huge part of... that's what, you know, IPM plant,
you know, plant health, all these different concepts are about is looking at the overall
picture which oftentimes the pest management is a smaller subset of that. (Tim) And... and that's

(42:20):
why if in... in doubt, ask your local Extension Specialist. That's what they're trained to look
at. To look at the big picture to see maybe what else has done, you know... what else has... has
been done to make... to... might cause these... these issues. So... so, but we also are in a
different time than we were when I was a kid and Sam was a child. Not you, Sam... not you, Dan. But the

(42:45):
farm is getting bigger. (Dan) Yeah. That... that's such a change. (Tim) They didn't get bigger for
200 years, but we're... we're really... but things are changing now. (Dan) Mhm. Yeah, and because of
that it's becoming more and more important to have the proper application rate because the margins
per acre are getting smaller and smaller every year. And yeah, and with... with that change from

(43:07):
the agrarian lifestyle, so the farming lifestyle to being more city, there's a lot of disconnect
now because of it. (Tim) And like in places like around Columbia, we have people living in rural
areas that... that you have to work around. (Dan) Yes, exactly. Correct. (Tim) I remember as a kid,
I was spraying a cornfield some 2,4-D, and the woman a mile down the road called my

(43:30):
mom and asked, "Is that pesticide going to hurt my garden?" So I got in at lunch, my mom asked me,
I'm like, "Sure it will." "What are you spraying it for?" This is 1970. Do what I want to do,
you know? (Dan) Oh, yeah! Exactly. Right? Yeah! (Tim) But... but now that's why we have these
rules... (Dan) Right. (Tim) ...to... to... to... to... for the... for the, uh... person's safety

(43:51):
and our environment and our neighbors! (Dan) And pets as well. Pets is... is another big one
that... (Tim) Oh, pets? Really? (Dan) ...that, yeah... that... yeah, that with a lot of the
changes upcoming has... has made it into that because there are a lot more people today that
consider pets as their own children than they were back in the 70s. (Tim) Sure! Sure! And when they
go roaming around... (Dan) Exactly. Yeah, rolling in the backyard right after it was sprayed

(44:15):
even... yeah. Yeah, we don't want any of those situations. (Tim) Wow. So... so I think with your
youth program, going back to that, you're really starting to train the folks early so... so they
understand what's going on. (Sam) Right. (Dan) Yeah, yeah. Don't let the dog out in the backyard
if somebody's applying out there or something like that, you know, and yeah, cuz we don't... we don't
want any... anybody or anything getting hurt that isn't supposed to be. (Tim) But at the same time,

(44:39):
let's not fear all our pesticides. (Dan) Yes! Yes! (Tim) There's labels, and... and there's
that label... they spend millions of dollars on that label going through the test. (Dan) Yes. Yes.
(Tim) If it says it's safe on this product, it's safe in this product. Oh! And what we haven't even
mentioned, some... some, uh... pesticides will have, "You can't consume it for so many days."

(45:05):
I can't remember what that's called. (Sam) Yeah, the, um... harvest interval... (Dan) Oh, yeah,
yeah, yeah! Preharvest interval. Yes! (Tim) And... and those are on there for a reason. (Dan) Yeah,
right. Yeah, and it is to keep us safe because, I mean, these are these are needed chemicals. And
yes, and that... that... that allows... that gives it time to break down just like how you mentioned
earlier about residuals. It's the same thing. Yeah, it's to make darn sure that there is none

(45:28):
of it left by the time it's either for human or animal consumption. (Sam) That's one of the big
misconceptions is a lot of the public now thinks once it's sprayed, it's toxic, and people are
recommending, "Oh, only eat organic vegetables! The other stuff's toxic!" And they don't realize
you have pyrethrins and other nicotinoids on the organic stuff too. But regardless of what kind
of chemical it is, the ultraviolet light from the sun is... it's brutal! It tears chemistries

(45:53):
apart. It'll break down this plastic bottle. You know, I've picked up... (Tim) In a few million
years. [laughing] (Sam) But I mean, look at paint. You know, paint starts to fade on the
side of a wall. If you leave your clothes out, they fade. And that's that UV light breaking
down. It tears those chemical residues apart. The bacteria in the soil and on the plant, that starts
tearing it apart. There's different hydrolysis and chemica... chemistry processes in the soil that

(46:15):
break those chemicals down, and that's what that harvest interval is for, is you can't harvest,
you know, so many days between the last spray and the harvest time to allow that breakdown to
occur. And that's why every time we eat vegetables from the store, we don't drop dead from, you know,
being poisoned because that chemical is mostly gone. But people have this misconception that,
"Oooh, I don't eat conventional produce because it's toxic!" And you know, I always joked...

(46:38):
I was a commercial pesticide applicator, you're right there up close and personal with all kinds
of heavy-duty chemicals, many of which have been banned since I used them, diazinon, and I mean all
kinds of crazy... methyl bromide, and uh... you know, I have eight kids, and they're all normal
with two hands and two feet and, you know, no problems! But again, it goes back to wearing the
PPE, following the label! A lot of people I knew, did not! They would, "Nobody's looking today," and

(47:03):
take their respirator off when walking through a cloud of organophosphate. Well, they did get
poisoned! It's pretty simple logic really. (Tim) Right. So it is, you know, going back to when I
was a kid, and I think maybe it was paraquat or something, and this one guy said, "I respect it.
I don't fear it, but I respect it." (Sam) Uhuh. (Dan) Exactly. (Tim) And... and I always... I

(47:26):
always thought about that on our pesticides, there's no fear, but you got to respect them.
And you got to follow the label, and that label is there for a reason. (Dan) Yeah, and that PPE
is very obvious on the label. It has its own section usually. (Tim) I thought it was good you
all mentioned gloves over and... a very simple thing to do is wear gloves. And is it often in

(47:47):
the mixing part is where we get the most exposure? (Sam) Yeah, you have your agitator is splashing
around in your tank, or you know, depending on what kind of agitation you have, and you're
pouring stuff, and it's so easy for all a sudden a wind gust to blow that stream in your face, or
you fumble, or whatever! We have a picture in our training. It's an older picture, but it shows this
guy going, wah!!! And he's throwing the jug in the air, and there's stuff splashing everywhere!

(48:10):
And that brings up a really great point is that one of the concepts I try to bring across is,
okay... let's just say the label says wear gloves, shoes plus socks, long sleeve shirt, long pants
and that's the minimum. I always prepare for worse. What happens when that wind gust does a 180
and blast that whole cloud in your face as you're spraying? What happens when that line explodes

(48:31):
on your spray rig? And I've had that happen! One time I was spraying organophosphate. I was right
up next to my spray rig, and I always inspected my equipment, checked my hoses every month or so,
and had a record, but one day, kapow!!! I was... took a shower in organophosphate! And I shut the
valve off, and I stood there for a second thinking, "Wow, am I glad I had more PPE

(48:51):
than the label required! I had a tyvek suit. I had a respirator, rubber boots, rubber gloves
duct taped to my sleeve so nothing could get in. (Tim) Oh, my goodness! (Sam) And that was one of
those days I was very glad for that. (Tim) All right. (Dan) And I do got to add there, unless
the label specifically says otherwise. Because there are some fumigants that will specifically
say not to wear that stuff because if it does get in the suit or whatever, it can hold it against

(49:13):
you. (Tim) Oh, wow. (Sam) And then you lose flesh. (Dan) Yeah, I've seen pictures. (Tim) So read the
label. (Dan) Yes. Exactly. Yeah, and those are the exception on the... the fumigant. (Tim) Well,
anything else you want to add before we sign off? I know we've had a great time, and we've covered
a lot of stuff, and... and... anything maybe to summarize it? (Sam) Yeah, I would say one thing
that maybe to cap it off that you... you kind of started hinting towards there looking at LD50,

(49:34):
is just risk. People don't think about risk. And risk is the toxicity times the exposure. So
you talked about aspirin, you know, we eat aspirin when we have a headache, right? It doesn't drop us
dead. But for a 2-year-old child to come and take a bottle and dump that down, now we're talking
exposure. You know, Mom shouldn't have left that out on the counter. It should have been locked

(49:54):
up in a cabinet. So again... pesticide, medicine, cleaners, they're all toxic, and it's what kind of
exposure do we have? And that's people don't understand, "Oh! Pesticides are evil because
they're toxic, and they're killing society in the earth!" But they don't realize first of all,
you're diluting that in the tank. Second of all, you're applying it and spreading it out. You're
following the label. You're calibrating. You're putting it on the target, so the exposure really

(50:18):
isn't usually there. It's when you don't wear PPE, and you dump it on your chest, and it's drizzling
down you. Or if you're a sloppy homeowner under the backpack sprayer blowing it in the air,
or you buy a fogger to kill some fleas on your cat, and you gas your family and your cat. Then,
now we're talking exposure. And so the... it's all about risk. And I think that is a whole

(50:38):
another discussion that you can talk about for quite a while. But if we can minimize the risk,
use a less toxic pesticide if you have your choice between three, and reduce the exposure by wearing
PPE, applying it properly, that I think is a great summary for the whole pesticide safety
world. (Tim) And I would say also, Dan, is knowing what... why you're... you're applying

(51:00):
this pesticide. Scouting it! (Dan) Yeah, exactly! Scouting! We didn't talk about that, but that's
why it's so important to scout because you need to know that... that they actually... this...
that you're actually applying the proper pesticide because there's no reason to spray a grass killer
when it's a broadleaf. (Tim) Or trying to overcome a... you think it's a... a fungal issue, and it's

(51:22):
a nutrient issue. (Dan) Exactly! Yeah. (Tim) Or when we get into the insecticide world, we
have beneficials. (Dan) Yeah. (Tim) Having to ID those. You know, so... so there's... there's some
responsibilities on the farmer and the homeowner too that... that we got to know to be going
in. (Dan) Yeah, cuz it's actually how we have found some stuff. Um... uh... um... tar spot is a,

(51:45):
uh... is one that they thought was something else, and so they sprayed it, and it didn't work,
and that's how they did... they found out it was tar spot. (Tim) Really? (Dan) That's one that
Mandy Bish is currently studying. (Tim) Right! Cuz they will not wash... wipe off! (Dan) Yeah,
exactly. (Tim) I have my towel! (Dan) Me too! (Tim) That... that tried. Of course,
my grandson took it away from me. He liked it too. (Dan) I've got an extra if you need
one. (Tim) Okay. All right. Well, this has been a great time with, uh... Sam Polly and Dan... Daniel

(52:09):
Sjarpe. And... oh! How do we contact you? That... that, you know... I mean, if I got a question,
if we want maybe to have a youth training, or... or have a question about something,
what's the best way to contact you all? (Sam) If you just Google, uh... 'Mizzou Pesticide Safety,'
we have a website, and it'll... it'll... you could type in, uh... 'Pesticide Training,' it'll pop up

(52:33):
our website, and it has my contact information, my office phone, and uh... I check those messages
and if it's for me or Dan, you know, pass it along to him. (Tim) Wonderful! (Sam) It has our,
uh... our email and our phone number on there. (Tim) All right. Well, this is,
uh... this has been it for Tim's Take. Thank you... thank you all so much! This has been
a lot of fun, but extremely informative. We'll see you next time. (Dan) Thank you.

(52:55):
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