The Day Andi Disappeared

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, glad you can make it. Before you head into
the bar for today's true crime story, just a warning
that TCB might contain disturbing content, so it's not for kids.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Enjoyed the episode, Welcome to True Crime Brewery.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
I'm Jill and I'm Dick.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
So on a quiet spring day in nineteen ninety nine,
in the small town of Mina, Arkansas, twelve year old
Andy Brewer vanished. So what began is to stay at
her grandfather's house cruelly turned into a nightmare that shook
a community, devastated a family, and changed the way many
people saw children's safety and security forever. Join us today

(00:45):
for the day Andy disappeared. This is the story of
a precious girl whose life was stolen far too soon,
and of her mother who somehow turned her unimaginable grief
into a forced for justice. In today's episode, we will
go through the timeline of Andy's disappearance, the chilling confession
of her abductor, and the heartbreak and resilience that she

(01:07):
left behind for those who knew and loved her.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
So, what have we got for a beer today?

Speaker 4 (01:13):
You know, this is the first case in the state
of Arkansas.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
That was covered yes, I heard that. You told me
that when you were looking up.

Speaker 4 (01:20):
Beers, and I did actually have a beer from Arkansas.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Oh good. What's it called?

Speaker 4 (01:26):
Called a little Red Strawberry Lager?

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Cute sounds scary.

Speaker 4 (01:29):
Diamond Bear Brewing Company in North Little Rock. This is
just an American loger. Think of it as kind of
a flavored Budweiser or something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Oh ouch. It's very cutting four.

Speaker 4 (01:41):
Percent alcohol by bias, so you can pound a few
of these and probably be fine. There's a golden color,
faint haze, small white head that goes away pretty quickly,
has a kind of a grassy aroma outdoorsy, a little
bit of sweet fruit. There is a subtle, I mean
subtle strawberry taste to this beer. Light bided finish. So

(02:03):
it was good as a try this beer type of thing, okay,
but it's not when I'd want to drink a lot
of on a regular basis.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
So not a rave review.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
Probably more my style than yours, So let's open up
a couple.

Speaker 4 (02:17):
Definitely more your style than mine.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
Rebecca Petty's four year old daughter Kristen turned four on
May fifteenth, nineteen ninety nine, and there were plans for
a fun filled day of celebration. So they had kate
candles and balloons, and a bunch of Kristen's friends were
running around at the McDonald's playground. Laughter and screams of
joy echoed in the fast food restaurant, where small shoes

(02:57):
were lined up on the shelves so that the kids
could jump into the bar in their stocking feet. So
little Kristin was happy about her fourth birthday party at McDonald's.
She was also thrilled that her best friend Victoria could
be there. These two girls had attended preschool together since
they were a little more than infants. Victoria, a little
girl with dark hair and blue eyes, giggled as she

(03:19):
took Kristin by the hand, and as mom Rebecca watched
the children playing, she made a mental note to call
her twelve year old daughter Andy that evening so she
could wish her baby's sister happy birthday. Andy had recently
decided that she wanted to live with her father for
a while after her new baby brother had been born.
After the party, Rebecca, her husband Chris, her middle daughter Melanie,

(03:44):
and Kristin decided to go to the local rural fire
department for their annual picnic, so Rebecca's mom, Anne, an
EMT for the town of Collinsville, Oklahoma, said it would
be a great way to end their day, and it was.
There were free hot dogs, games and prizes. Watched the
Tulsa Life Flight land their helicopter and afterwards the kids

(04:04):
were thrilled to explore the inside of it. Then one
of the paramedics from the flight service took Kristen for
a helicopter ride since it was her birthday, so it
seemed like a great day.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
Now, Rebecca had become pregnant with Andy when she was
just sixteen. The father was Greg Brewer, Rebecca's high school boyfriend.
He had already graduated from high school the previous spring,
and the young couple did have plans to marry after
she graduated, but the baby speeded things up. Telling their
parents that Rebecca was pregnant was difficult.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
They believed she.

Speaker 3 (04:41):
Would never go to college or even graduate from high school,
but she did do both so Andy Andrea Nicole Brewer
was born on April tenth, nineteen eighty seven, and when
she was twenty months old, Rebecca gave birth to a
second daughter, Melanie. But it turned out that the two
girls were really the only good thing that came out

(05:01):
of Rebecca's teen marriage to Greg Brewer, so she and
Greg divorced after four years of marriage. Then after the divorce,
Rebecca left her home in Arkansas with the two girls,
and life was pretty good for them. They moved to Collinsville, Oklahoma,
a suburb of Tulsa. Rebecca began working as an emt
and enrolled in paramedic school. Several years later, in nineteen

(05:25):
ninety five, Rebecca remarried a firefighter named Chris Demorro. On
May fifteenth, nineteen ninety five, Rebecca and Chris had a child,
and this was Kristin Elizabeth. With Kristin, Rebecca's two girls,
Andy and Melanie, and Chris's son Christopher from his first marriage,
this was a large, blended family, so a lot of chaos,

(05:47):
a lot to deal with, but they were usually happy.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
So when Andy was ten and.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
A half years old, she decided she wanted to live
with her dad and his new wife, who had just
given birth to a baby boy. This was difficult because Rebecca, Chris,
and the other kids wanted Andy to stay. Rebecca's heart
broke at the thought of her daughter wanting to live
somewhere else, and she felt that she had failed in
some way as a mother. So at first she said

(06:13):
that Andy couldn't go, but Andy was very persistent. She
told her mother, I just want to move to Arkansas
so I can spend some time with my new baby brother.
So that was kind of convincing, even though Rebecca felt
betrayed and even a little bit angry. But after a
few months, Rebecca sat down with Chris and told him
that she thought they should let Andy try living with

(06:34):
her dad for a while, just to see how it
would work out. Chris said he thought this was a
bad idea because she really needed to be with them
and be with her mother. He even said that he
had a bad feeling about her moving. But that's when,
according to Rebecca, she made the worst decision of her life.
She decided that she was letting Andy go, reassuring Chris

(06:56):
that she would be back in just a few months.
In October of ninety seven, Andy's dad, wife, and new
brother came to Rebecca's Oklahoma home to pick up Andy.
As they loaded all of her belongings into the car,
Rebecca knew she would change her mind, especially when she
hugged her and Andy cried in her arms. She told
Andy they would be together in school breaks and over

(07:19):
summer vacation. She promised to call her every Sunday. She
tried to smile despite her sadness. So Andy opened the
car door and got into the back seat, and tears
streaked down her face. She looked into her mother's eyes
and mouthed the words I.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
Love you, I love you back.

Speaker 3 (07:35):
Rebecca said Andy had always felt pulled between her father
and mother. She loved them both and had never wanted
them to get a divorce. But then soon afterwards, Rebecca
learned that Andy really loved living in the country. Her
dad taught her how to hunt and fish, She rode
her four wheeler in the woods, played basketball in the
small community, and seemed very content. Rebecca had allowed herself

(07:59):
to begin to accept that things were okay for Andy there,
but she couldn't have been more wrong. After just over
a year of her living in Arkansas, on her little
sister Kristen's birthday, a day which had started out with
so much good, May fifteenth, nineteen ninety nine would turn
out to be the worst.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Day in their lives.

Speaker 3 (08:20):
So May fifteenth that year was a Saturday, Andy was
at her father and stepmother's house, and they had argued
with Andy about her spending so much time at her
grandparents' house and not with them. Andy was feeling stuck
at her father in stepmother's home, and now she'd been
grounded that weekend. She was trapped in the house and
she really had a lot of responsibilities, including cooking, cleaning,

(08:44):
and babysitting. Only two weeks more in school would be
out and she could go to her mom's in Chris's
house for the summer. She'd actually confided to her sister
Melanie by phone that she wanted to return to Rebecca
and the family in Oklahoma permanently, but she'd made Melanie
promise not to tell their parents because she didn't want
any trouble, but she was starting to really hate it there.

(09:08):
Her father, Gregg, came into the doorway that evening around
seven thirty, and her stepmother was at work. He told
her he was going down to the pond to fish
and he needed her to watch the kids, and she
did not argue, so Andy waved out the door as
her father headed down the road to the pond. She
sighed and turned as one of her step siblings was

(09:28):
tugging on her shirt, needing something. Then there was some
one knocking at the door. Andy adjusted the heat on
the cooker she was using to make dinner. The chicken
she had just dropped into the grease was beginning to crackle,
but she knew it would be a moment before it
was ready, so she thought she would be right back.
But there was a man at the door, and Andy

(09:50):
knew this man, or she wouldn't have opened it. He
spoke to her, apparently startling her with his words, and
she left the house with no shoes on her feet.
Her little siblings stared at the open door, waiting for
her return, but Andy did not come back.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
So at nine p m.

Speaker 3 (10:07):
That night, back in Oklahoma, Rebecca's phone rang. It was
not Andy's voice on the other end. It was Greg's sister, Trina.
She said, Andy's missing. Those words at first shocked her
as if she'd been slapped in the face. She held
the phone to her ear, trying to absorb what she
was hearing, but Trina continued, the police are here. We

(10:29):
think she left with some of her friends. She's run
off somewhere, so don't worry. So Rebecca looked out of
her window and dusk was turning to the darkness of night,
and Andy was very afraid of the dark. She knew
that Andy would never stay out in the dark on purpose,
but Trina just repeated to her not to worry. So

(10:50):
how could you not worry?

Speaker 4 (10:51):
Right, this dependable kid who's always around my parents disappears
in the time of day, Like you said, it's getting dark.
So Rebecca knows.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
Her child, yes, exactly.

Speaker 4 (11:05):
There's something bothersome about her not being around, of.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
Course, So after hanging up the phone, Rebecca told her
husband and they just kind of stared at each other
for a few seconds. Then Rebecca ran to the bedroom
and began throwing clothes into a suitcase. She knew she
needed to get to Arkansas immediately, so Chris and Rebecca
loaded up and headed to her mother and stepdad's house nearby.

(11:29):
Chris said that he and her stepdad would go to
Mina and find Andy and bring her home, but Rebecca
just had a really bad feeling. And meanwhile in Mina,
search parties had formed and were searching the county for Andy.
They searched the forests, abandoned buildings, and even parked cars.
They checked with all of her friends from school, but

(11:50):
no one had any idea where Andy had gone. Nobody,
that is, except her younger step siblings, Samantha and Tory,
ages eight and six, whom Andy had been babysitting. So
the kids were very direct on what had happened. From
the beginning, They said Uncle Carl took her away in
his red truck. He knocked on the door and told

(12:11):
her she had to come with him. He said something
was wrong with Grandma and Grandpa Brewer, and she told
us she.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
Would be right back.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
So Uncle Carl was Gregg's brother in law, Andy's paternal aunt,
Trina's husband. Aunt Trina disputed what the kids were saying.
She kept telling the kids not to say anything like
that to the police because it could get their uncle
Carl in trouble. Anyway, she said Carl had left the
grandparents home at seven point thirty to visit his parents

(12:41):
in Cove, which was about ten miles south. So it
was decided that Andy had left with someone with dark
hair and in a red truck. One factor, in addition
to the age of the eyewitnesses, was that both of
these kids had very poor eyesight and they hadn't been
wearing their glasses at the time. Yeah, well come, I yeah,
I don't think that matters. I think if their uncle

(13:02):
Carl's at the door and they hear his voice, they
know yeah. Plus, Andy's not going to run off with
just anyone.

Speaker 4 (13:07):
They're six and eight years old.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yeah, they're not babies, right, So.

Speaker 4 (13:11):
They said to uncle Carl.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
It was uncle Carl, yes, and that would be the case.
So the fact that Andy had gotten into an argument
with her father and his wife that night the night
before led the police to believe she was a possible runaway.
Law enforcement didn't know her well enough to know that
she just would not run away. They were just going
on their past experiences with other kids. But Rebecca knew

(13:36):
Andy was easily afraid and she would never leave her
younger siblings like that. There were too many unanswered questions
to assume that she could have run off without telling anyone.
And when she left, she told the kids she'd be
right back. And if she were going to run away,
she would have taken more than just the clothes on
her back. She would have been wearing shoes, and she

(13:56):
wouldn't have left the chicken frying in the cooker. That
would be days with the kids.

Speaker 4 (14:01):
Right, big fire hazard.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
Sure, so Rebecca knew the area well because she'd grown
up around there in Hatfield. It would have been easy
for someone to drive up the dirt drive where Gregg's
triple wide trailer was located, abduct Andy, and drive away
without being seen by anyone. Now, the grandparents' home was
just four hundred yards away, but there were dense woods

(14:23):
between the two homes, so Rebecca knew that Andy did
not run away. She knew something was wrong and that
she'd been taken, but you know, she tried to hold
out hope. Well, maybe I'm wrong, Maybe she did run away,
because that would be the best news, right, that would
be so at ten pm that same night, Rebecca's sister
Christie was wringing her hands as Rebecca was drumming her

(14:45):
fingers nervously on the kitchen table. Their mom was busying
herself aimlessly around the kitchen, and when the phone finally rang,
Rebecca's mom answered and handed her the phone. It was
the sheriff back in Arkansas. Rebecca I knew him as Mike,
her stepdad's old friend from Beckham High School, so he

(15:05):
gave her an update, which was just no good. Here's
what we have up to this point, he said. Trina
Brewer Roberts called our nine to one to one center
at eight forty pm and reported Andy missing. I sent
a deputy to Charles and Ann Brewer's house to take
a report. That's the grandparents. Then I went ahead and
went over myself. The kids informed them she had left

(15:27):
with a man in a red truck. Andy had told
the children she'd be right back. I found out she'd
had a disagreement with Greg and his wife Carla the
night before. So we think she's taken off with some friends.
Right now, we're in the process of interviewing all her
friends and looking for the red truck. I just wanted
you to know, so don't worry about any of this.

(15:48):
We see kids get mad and take off all the
time all the time. We'll find her and bring her back.
But Rebecca was not assured, and she was getting very
tired of being told not to worry.

Speaker 4 (16:01):
Yeah, that's the magical charm. Don't worry.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
Everything's going to be okay, right, Yeah, if only so.
The next morning, Sunday, at six am, the phone rang.
Rebecca wasn't able to sleep, but she was lying on
the couch. She jumped up, hoping it was her husband
calling with some good news. It was him, but his
tone told her that he didn't have anything good to
tell her. He told her that it was like Andy

(16:27):
had just vanished into thin air. They had looked all
through the woods and in every building, they'd talked to
all of her friends. The police were out searching for
all red trucks, and search parties were looking all over
the county. So it was really getting scary now, and
Rebecca started to cry. She decided that she could wait
no longer and she was going down there to help

(16:49):
in the search for her daughter. Sheriff Oglesby had said
that if Andy was not found by ten thirty that morning,
they were turning her disappearance into a criminal investigation.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
They said they.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
Were leaning toward a kidnapping now, but they were still
remaining hopeful that she might be hiding in the woods
with a boy. But Rebecca and her husband, Chris knew
that that whole idea was just totally ridiculous.

Speaker 4 (17:14):
That morning, at seven point thirty, Rebecca and her mother
headed out for Arkansas. On their way, there was an
awkward silence inside the truck. After many miles, Rebecca broke
the silence, sharing how guilty she felt for allowing Andy
to move. Now, her mom didn't argue with her about that,
but she did not say I told you so either.
Remember mom didn't think Andy should go.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
No, Mom didn't think so. Stepdad Chris didn't think so.
So this was a lot of guilt lying in Rebecca's
lap here, not that she could have predicted this.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Of course.

Speaker 4 (17:47):
Yeah, Rebecca's mother had previously suggested that Andy come live
with her instead, but she never ununderstood that Andy's desire
to go to Arkansas had nothing to do with escaping
where she was. She just wanted to be with her father.

(18:24):
So as they reached the first stoplight in Mina, Arkansas,
Rebecca noticed the unmarked vehicle in front of them. Several
radio antennas stuck out from its roof, and the plate
read US Government. Now, having been a paramedic in the past,
Rebecca knew that this was an FBI vehicle. The vehicle
turned right and headed toward the police department. This was

(18:46):
a bad sign because the FBI didn't come to town for
a runaway. They'd come to town for a kidnapping or abduction.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
Right, Well, they would, and that's what was so scary
about it.

Speaker 4 (18:57):
Yeah, you gotta figure something not good is going on.

Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yes, really, just a horrible feeling.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
As a parent.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
We all know that feeling, at least the early feeling
of where's my kid. We've all like lost track of
a child in a grocery store or something. So just
imagine something like this lasting this long and the news
getting worse and worse. It's every parent's worse nightmare.

Speaker 4 (19:19):
They haven't had any good news yet, have they.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
No.

Speaker 3 (19:22):
No, So they arrived at what law enforcement was calling
the command post, and this was Gregg's parents' home, Andy's
grandparents' house.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
The Brewer's yard was.

Speaker 3 (19:31):
Swarming with people, neighbors, relatives, friends, law enforcement, and even
some news media by this time. So it was a
scary situation. Rebecca got out of the truck and weaved
her way through the crowd, and she got to the
front porch and recognized the man sitting in a chair
beside the front door. He seemed kind of out of
place with everyone else kind of in near panic mode

(19:54):
and trying to help out, and he was just sitting
there and he was whittling. His hands were working a
bit frantically though, And this was Carl Roberts, uncle Carl.
He made no eye contact with anyone until Rebecca opened
the gate and walked onto the covered porch area. Then
he did look up at her as she passed, and
she said, how are you, Carl. Well, Carl talked a

(20:17):
bit then, which should have been a bit of a
red flag. It did give her a little bit of
an odd feeling. He said he was fine, He said, though,
the police want to talk to me about Andy. They
say that since I fit the description, they need to
interview me. You know, they can hook me up to
a lie detector and search my truck if they want.
I didn't have anything to do with this, So if

(20:39):
she hadn't been so distracted and upset, that might have
kind of set off some alarms in her head. But
she just felt like she didn't have time to make
Carl Roberts feel better, and she was just worried sick
about her daughter. So Carl told her that he thought
Bobby Stone had something to do with it.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
Bobby drove a red truck.

Speaker 3 (20:58):
And he did fit the general description. He was a
family friend of the Brewers, who had recently graduated from
high school. Rebecca asked if he thought that Andy had
run away with Bobby Stone, but Bobby was eighteen, so
hopefully he wouldn't want to run away with a twelve
year old little girl.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
But Carl really.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
Didn't respond and did not look up from his witling.
So at that point, Rebecca had already forgotten her strange
conversation with Uncle Carl, and it seemed unimportant at the
time as soon as she got in the house. Later,
he would join some of the search parties and walk
through the woods trying to find his missing niece, or
pretending to. He did seem to be genuinely concerned for

(21:39):
her well being in safe return. Andy's paternal grandfather, Charles Brewer,
would later recount that after the search, he had sat
down in the kitchen with Carl and discussed what he
would do to a person if they ever kidnapped or
harmed one of his two young children.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
I will kill them. What if they hurt my babies, Carl.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
Said, And shortly afterward Charles saw Carl walk out to
the front of his pickup and start pulling out some
branches and twigs that were stuck in his front bumper.
So this was odd, and Charles Brewer recognized this knowing
that Carl was not a hunter and his truck really
never left the paved roads. He wondered why and how

(22:20):
Carl got branches stuck in his front bumper, and that's
when he began to worry that Carl knew where Andy
was and he would be right. So there were some
people early on that did suspect Carl, but it just
hadn't entered Rebecca's mind at this point. She just didn't
imagine that he would do that. She'd known him a
long time. He definitely was not a stranger to her.

(22:42):
He'd actually graduated from high school a year ahead of
her in a nearby town, and back then he dated
a girl named Laurie off and on at the high
school where she attended, which was how she'd met him.
She remembered that he would drive around the school every
day at lunch to check on Laurie, and he was
very controlling and afraid another boy might talk to her.

(23:03):
So the high school kids would stand around the picnic
tables back then around lunchtime and talk and laugh, and
in the distance they would hear his truck stereo, which
was usually blaring hard rock music. He would drive back
and forth holding his arm out the window and giving
them the devil sign, which was like a closed fist

(23:23):
with a pointer and pinky finger extended like horns, and
he would stick out his tongue like Gene Simmons from Kiss.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
So that might not be a big deal.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
A lot of hard rockers do things like that, but
when he drove by, many of them were genuinely scared
of him. He did have kind of an evil vibe
that made them uncomfortable around him, and they nicknamed him Devil,
so not necessarily because of the loud music or even
the devil sign, but because he just seemed kind of off,

(23:53):
and he told everyone that he did worship Satan.

Speaker 4 (23:56):
Yeah, so he's an outlier.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
He was an outlier high school, but Rebecca's sister Christie
saw him one night at a local hangout where all
the teenagers went to playpool and eat cheeseburgers. And that night,
Carl was parked around the back of the restaurant and
he was standing outside of his truck listening to Motley Crue.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
That's when he.

Speaker 3 (24:15):
Told her sister that he was turning into Satan himself
and asked her to feel the horns on top of
his head. So she just kind of blew him off
and thought he was being obnoxious.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
He did smoke pot, he.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
Drank Countyline beer, and he said he worshiped his savior, Satan.
He also claimed he had taken a blood covenant and
was eager to tell anyone and everyone about it. So
he wore an upside down crucifix around his neck that
had a switchblade hidden inside of it, and he would
sometimes pull it out to scare people. It was even

(24:49):
rumored that he attended a local church service where they
had tried to perform an exorcism to cast the devil
out of him. So he seemed kind of creepy. So
it was not until four years later that Carl became
part of Rebecca's life again. He began to date Greg's sister, Trina.
Rebecca was stunned by this, but Trina assured her that

(25:10):
he did not worship Satan and he was really a
nice guy. She said the Satan worship thing had been
an act just to get attention, and she decided to
marry him about a year later. She even asked Rebecca
to be her maid of honor, so Rebecca agreed, and
everyone seemed pretty impressed at the change that Trina had
seemed to make in Carl. He was no longer acting

(25:32):
like a rebellious teenager who was obsessed with Satanism, but
he seemed like a young man, content and happy in life.
He seemed like he was in love and ready to
settle down. So now he had a new wife and
they started a life together. Carl and Trina moved into
a small mobile home in nearby Cove, Arkansas. He got
a job building bridges for a local contracting company, and

(25:55):
Trina worked at a grocery store in town.

Speaker 4 (25:58):
But soon Carls jealous came back. Trina was not allowed
to have friends, and Carl kept track of the mileage
on her car, often accusing her of cheating on him.
Later in the marriage, he would become so overcome with
jealousy that he would visualize seeing her with other men.
He thought he would see her driving around town sitting
next to her lover, But in truth, Trina was a

(26:21):
faithful wife and never considered cheating on Carl. Now, besides
the psychological problems, times Carl would become so enraged with
Trina that he would become physically violent, often choking her out.
One thing to put your hands on someone's neck another thing,
to choke him to her unconscious Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
I mean, she could have easily died, And it seems
almost like inevitable that if someone's doing that, he will
eventually kill her.

Speaker 4 (26:49):
Yeah, something's going to happen.

Speaker 3 (26:51):
So when he choke her to unconsciousness and she'd wake up,
he would apologize, begging her not to leave him, and.

Speaker 4 (26:57):
She always forgave him and stayed with.

Speaker 3 (26:59):
Him, unfortunately, and she never told anyone he was violent.

Speaker 4 (27:03):
Even no because they often spend time at the house
of her parents, Charles and Nne Brewer, Carlo was very
jealous of Trina's relationship with her mother. Trina refused to
let him come between her and her family.

Speaker 3 (27:16):
Yes, I guess that's where she drew the line. So
that Sunday afternoon, after Andy disappeared, everyone wanted to talk
to Rebecca and Greg. Rebecca, who was pretty tough and
never begged anyone for anything, was now begging for help
getting her daughter back home. Greg was sitting with his
head down, crying, and it was really just difficult for

(27:38):
him to speak at all. Rebecca told the reporters that
no matter what had happened, they could get through it
as a family, everything would be okay, And she addressed
whoever may have taken her daughter, telling that person that
no questions would be asked, just drop her off where
she could get to a phone and call home. Of
course that would never work, they say that, But then

(27:58):
if she'd been brought back, of course they would look
for who.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
Had done this.

Speaker 3 (28:02):
They would know who had done it, obviously, and that's
why the Bestard killed her in the first place, to
protect himself. So you can say, please, just drop her
off somewhere, no names needed, nothing, But she was just
so desperate she'd do anything, and you can't blame her.

Speaker 4 (28:17):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (28:17):
After that interview, Rebecca wiped her face with a wet
washcloth that someone handed to her, and then she happened
to notice that Uncle Carl had been watching the interview
from the brewer's porch. He had his one year old
son on his hip and her daughter Melanie was standing
next to him, and she noticed this time that he
turned away when she looked at him. So this is

(28:38):
a guy with a one year old baby who did
this to a twelve year old. That just seems to
make it even worse. And so he's related to her
so by three pm that day, search parties, police, FBI, firefighters,
and the media were everywhere. The firehouse had been turned
into a command center, so some of the family members
were out with the search party and some were forming

(29:01):
their own search parties. But there didn't seem to be
a real structure to this, just groups of people looking
in places that if they had found her, she wouldn't
be alive. So Rebecca realized these groups were not looking
for a living child, they were looking in places for
a body. Of course, she wanted nothing to do with that,
no part of it. She wanted her daughter Andy back alive.

(29:24):
Now that evening, Rebecca thought about the chicken left frying
in the frar. Andy had no shoes on her feet either.
Now it was getting dark for the second night of
her being missing. She had been very sweet to take
care of her step siblings. She'd cooked for them and
babysat for them while her dad fished in the pond nearby,
so she never would have left them like that. Around

(29:47):
nine pm, FBI summoned family members for interviews. They dragged
themselves into the car, out of the car, and then
into the lobby of the Mina. Arkansas Police department. Gregg's parents,
prints Carl Roberts, and the young man Bobby Stone were
all there. Bobby was there with his father, David, and
he looked very nervous. Of course, then the FBI called

(30:10):
him in and his father said, my son didn't have
anything to do with this, and he's expected to leave
a week from monday for the Marine Corps. Is this
going to detain him now? This concern about whether he
would make it on time was just offensive and sounded
very insensitive to Rebecca. An FBI agent with a flat
top crew cut approached Rebecca and he brought her into

(30:33):
an interview room to talk to her. So the agent's
voice was very official, yet soft and kind. The FBI
was on the case now, and Rebecca held out hope
that they were going to fix everything. Andy would return soon,
and when she did, they would take her right back
to Oklahoma, no more living with Greg and his wife,

(30:53):
and when they got there, they'd sit around the dinner
table and have her favorite meal. Rebecca answered questions about Andy,
and although it really didn't sound at all like her,
they did hold out hope that she'd just run off
with a boy.

Speaker 4 (31:07):
As she left, Rebecca heard FBI agents yelling at Bobby
Stone in the next room. She realizes she hoped she
did run away with Bobby Stone. Well, sure, she hoped
he did have her, and that she was hiding somewhere
in the woods waiting for him, because that would mean
she is still alive. Rebecca passed Carl Roberts right outside
the door. He puffed on a cigarette blew smoke out

(31:30):
into the night. He didn't look at Rebecca at this time.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
No, it seems like at this point he'd stopped making
eye contact at all.

Speaker 4 (31:38):
Too dangerous for him.

Speaker 5 (31:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (31:50):
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(32:11):
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Won't hear anywhere else.

Speaker 3 (32:30):
We're a little bit more like down to the nitty
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I think it's fair to say that do our homework.
When we put an episode out, we try to make
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Speaker 3 (32:42):
I'm saying in these premium episodes, we're more likely to
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Speaker 1 (32:49):
It's not for the broad public. So it's kind of
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Speaker 3 (32:54):
Support will not only help keep the beer chilled and
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(33:14):
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Speaker 4 (33:26):
You in Mina Hatfield and Cove and his face was everywhere,
in the newspaper and on television. Purple ribbons were tied
around trees for our posters, hung on every register at Walmart,

(33:47):
on telephone polls, and in gas stations. While Rebecca was
at a local diner, some farmers were discussing the case
and how if some old boy taking that little girl
and heard her, they would hunt him down and kill him. Yeah, so, wow,
passions are high here. Yeah, it was the beginning of
the hatred the community would feel against Carl.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yes, yes, sir so.

Speaker 3 (34:10):
On Monday, May seventeenth, back at Gregg's house, the sight
of Andy's disappearance, Search and Rescue brought in bloodhounds from
the Oklahoma Department of Corrections. So the dogs sniffed the
sheets from Andy's bed and then they took off into
the woods behind the trailer. But the police concluded she
rode her four wheeler back there and that was probably

(34:31):
the scent they'd picked up on. Rebecca thought if they'd
just been there sooner, maybe they could have picked up
a trail right after she got into that red truck.
That is unlikely, but it was possible. So the only
two people who fit the description of the man with
the red truck were Carl Roberts and Bobby Stone. Both
of these men agreed to voluntarily go to the police

(34:54):
station to be interviewed on May seventeenth, and both submitted
to polygraphs. The Arkansas State Police conducted Carl Roberts polygraph.
They first read him his Miranda rights and then explained
to him how the polygraph test worked. At the conclusion
of the exam, they allowed Karl to go outside and

(35:15):
smoke a cigarette while they analyzed the polygraph before speaking
with him. The polygraph examiner informed FBI's special Agent Mark
Jesse that Carl Roberts was being deceptive on the exam,
so now he is the primary suspect. They pretty much
are able to eliminate Bobby's Stone. So they called Carl

(35:36):
Roberts back into the interview room and told him that
his test had revealed he was being deceptive and it
didn't take much. He immediately dropped his head and said,
I messed up. He then confessed that he had taken
Andy from her home, drove her out to an old
logging road, raped her, and strangled her to death.

Speaker 4 (35:57):
Holy shit, how awful joys must have dropped when he
gave this confession.

Speaker 3 (36:03):
I don't know if the police were that surprised, but
certainly the family must have been shocked.

Speaker 4 (36:08):
Oh, definitely family, but even the police. How often do
you get someone in that you're questioning and they confessed
to you.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
I don't know, I think, and maybe it happens more
often than you see on the television crime shows. Yeah,
because not everybody's as intelligent or tricky. I think most
criminals are pretty simple. So it was one PM when
Rebecca's husband took her by the hand, took her by
the hand and told her he had to talk to her.
So this just didn't feel good. She sat on the

(36:37):
edge of a chair and looked at his face and
he hesitated. Then he said he thought Carl Roberts had
something to do with Andy's disappearance. When he said it,
it sounded very shocking because she had not considered that
possibility at all, so she shook her head slowly. Carl
had helped in the search. He had stayed at the
Brewer's house since Andy's disappearance. Difftly, she realized that her

(37:01):
other daughter, Melanie, had been staying in the same house
as him too, So that is awful. So her husband
Chris spoke slowly to her. He said, I have a
really bad feeling about this, and I'm going to say something,
and I want you to hear me out. If Carl
took Andy, she's dead. Then he tried to hug Rebecca,
but she was just having none of it, you know,

(37:21):
she really just kind of hated him at that moment.
She wanted him to tell her everything would be okay,
but of course he couldn't. And it was just the
most horrible thing a parent can hear, really, don't you think.

Speaker 4 (37:33):
I yeah, I mean not just the death of the child,
the perpetrator, he's a.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
Family member, right, It's shocking.

Speaker 4 (37:40):
Kind of doubles down on the horror.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
Absolutely, So you have to feel bad for Chris as
well as Rebecca. Just a horrible, horrible thing.

Speaker 4 (37:52):
Now, that same evening, the sheriff came to speak to
Rebecca with her father walking behind him. She could tell
by the looks on their faces that in and I've
been found safe. Rebecca, The sheriff said, she's dead and
Carl Roberts has admitted to killing her. He's leading a
team of deputies to her body. Now. Rebecca collapsed onto
her bed, curled into a ball and began crying. Everything

(38:15):
was wrong in life would never be the same.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
Well, and that's true. Unfortunately, Carl had confessed to picking
up Andy with the intention of raping her. After he
took her to a secluded place and raped her, he
strangled her to death and left her body in some
bushes covered in branches. He also took her clothing and
threw it over a bridge into the water. Then he

(38:38):
went back to his father's house. So the full confession
of Carl Roberts is in a book written by Andy's mother,
Rebecca Petty, and it's shocking and horrible. I couldn't even
bring myself to tell our listeners what he said because
it's kind of detailed and horrific. But the book is
heartbreaking and well written. Of course, we've gotten a lot

(39:01):
of our information from there. We have to give Andy's
mother credit for that. So it was an hour and
a half after finding out about Andy when Rebecca received
a call from Colleen Nick, whose daughter Morgan had been
abducted by a stranger four years earlier. Rebecca desperately needed
to talk to someone who understood what she was going through.

(39:24):
She remembered the story of her daughter being taken from
a little league baseball game, and she only knew from
the news coverage what had happened. Andy and Melanie were
very frightened though, after the abduction of Morgan Nick and
now Rebecca was the grieving mother crying on the news.
After they had the funeral, Rebecca and her husband Chris

(39:45):
returned to Oklahoma. Then there was a pre trial hearing
in October of nineteen ninety nine, and the judge set
Carl Roberts trial for February fourteenth, two thousand and announced
that the state would be seeking the death p penalty.
So Colleen Nick called Rebecca to ask if she had
ever considered volunteer work. She told her about a grant

(40:07):
that the US Department of Justice had funded the creation
of Team Hope, a parent support group for families of
missing children. She thought Rebecca would be really good at
helping others through the organization, and Rebecca agreed. But you know,
this was really early on in her case, so it
was very brave of her to do this, certainly was

(40:28):
the training was held in November, it had been only
six months since Andy had been killed. But Rebecca really
did feel like she needed to get involved, just for
her own sanity, So she flew out to the National
Center for Missing and Exploited Children to be trained for
Team Hope help offering parents empowerment, and after the training
she would be connected to families whose cases were similar

(40:51):
to Andy's to help guide them through their pain. No
one ever believes that tragedy can happen to them until
it does. And after she arrived in DC, she walked
up the jet bridge and stepped into the terminal, really
not sure of what to expect from the trip.

Speaker 4 (41:07):
Then the next morning, she walked around the block to
the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. At the
training in front of each seat, she recognized the names
of people from very high profile abduction cases. Vicky Kelly,
mother of Tommy who had been abducted and murdered. Patty Wetterling,
mother of Jacob age eleven, who had been abducted at

(41:29):
gunpoint eleven years ago. Don and Claudine Rice, parents of Jimmy,
aged nine, who was abducted, raped, and murdered in Florida.
The training center had been named in his honor.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
Yeah, now, Colleen was there representing the Morgan Nick Foundation.
Mark Klaus, father of Polyclass who had written to Rebecca
back in May was also there. A friend once told
her that there is a difference between sympathy and empathy,
and now she really understood because people so it's sympathized,
but only people who had gone through the same thing

(42:03):
could empathize with what you're going through. The first night
after the training session, the parents all met for dinner
and they talked for hours about their lost children. This
was a relief that Rebecca didn't have to worry about
people being uncomfortable or changing the subject with her. These
people listened to what she said about Andy, and she

(42:24):
listened as they spoke about their children. When the training ended,
they all stood in a circle, holding hands, each of
them saying a few words. When Rebecca's turn came, she said,
I never asked or wished to be part of this
club that no one wants to join, but now that
I'm here, I am grateful to be with all of you.
Everyone cried and hugged, and this felt like a step

(42:46):
in the right direction. Her path to lifelong advocacy would begin.
The prosecutor called Rebecca two days before the trial was
to start. He had an MRI of Karl's head and
there was a hole in his brain. It was an
old injury to the frontal lobe. The defense team would
claim a mental defect had caused Karl to kill Andy.

(43:08):
Karl was hit by a dump truck while riding his
bike when he was twelve years old. The defense had
found a doctor from Little Rock who was ready to
testify on his behalf. He would say that the type
of injury Karl received when he was twelve caused him
to snap and to have this violent episode. The prosecutor
said he would find a competent physician to dispute this claim.

(43:30):
It's purely defense tactic, and the defense knew that Karl
did not have much of a case. His written confession
would do him in. But the defense was trying to
get him life without parole. They were trying everything they
knew to do to save his life, and that was
their job. But the prosecutor said that a continuance should
buy them enough time to locate a doctor who was

(43:52):
well respected and willing to say that Carl is competent
to stand trial.

Speaker 4 (43:58):
The next week, she received a letter from the Arkansas
Attorney General's office stating that the State Victim Reparations Fund
would not be paying for the counseling she had been
receiving when Andy was killed. The family was encouraged by
the prosecutor's office to get counseling, and we were told
that the state would pay for it. A psychologist who
came to their church was counseling Rebecca every week since

(44:21):
he was from Oklahoma. The state of Arkansas refused this request.
After she'd been getting counseling for over a month, they
set the appeal date for the reparations for that March.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
Yeah, Rebecca had thought it over and she had decided
to fight.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
Well absolutely, yeah, I mean she'd been told it would
be paid.

Speaker 3 (44:39):
For right, and not just for herself but for people
in the future.

Speaker 4 (44:43):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
Now, at the hearing, one of the board members spoke
up and made a motion to pay Andy's family their money,
which was good, but to take it even one step further.
Another board member second did the motion and added one
through out the rule preventing the payment. So both most
were approved, and by making this effort, Rebecca really paved
the way for future victims to be able to have

(45:06):
the counselor of their choice. Jury selection for the murder
trial finally began on May eighth of two thousand. That morning,
at the Polk County Courthouse, two rows of heavily armed
police officers made a barrier around Carl Roberts. It was
the first time Rebecca had seen him in a year.
His hands were in front of his body and handcuffs

(45:28):
and a bulletproof vests covered his torso, so, although we
know this is the way the law works, it's really
irritating to see him being protected when no one was
there to protect her daughter. The courtroom was filled with
family members, friends, observers, and reporters, and the proceedings began
that morning at nine am. Each potential juror was brought

(45:51):
in and questioned. When the potential jurors were allowed to speak,
it did not sound good for Carl Roberts. He was
like the community's books poky man. He was the one
who caused them all to begin locking their doors, sleeping
with guns on their nightstands, and making their children play inside.
So it took a week for twelve jurors and three

(46:12):
alternates to be chosen, and the trial was set to
begin exactly one year after Andy was murdered. It was
on her sister Kristen's fifth birthday May fifteenth, So that's
just kind of coincidental or crazy macabre.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:29):
Now, the girls stayed behind in Oklahoma with family friends
while Rebecca and her husband went to the trial. The
prosecution's opening statement was heart wrenching, as every detail of
what had happened to Andy was told to the court.
In their opening, the defense said that they would be
bringing in two experts to testify that they examined Carl,

(46:51):
that he had been given an MRI, and that at
the time the murder was committed, a large piece of
his brain was missing. Carl did not have part of
his frontal lobe following an accident twenty years earlier. His
IQ was in the borderline retarded range, they said, and
he'd shown symptoms consistent with schizophrenia. He also saw and

(47:13):
heard things that weren't there. But remember, this is a
man who had been able to keep a job, be married,
raise a family. That's right, and this abduction seemed pretty
planned out.

Speaker 4 (47:24):
Yeah, I can't believe. Well, if not planned out, at
least he'd done it before, because why would a otherwise
normal person be driving in this pickup. Spot's a little
twelve year old girl. Besides, I'm in a raper.

Speaker 3 (47:37):
Well, I mean, he this was his niece, he'd known
her and seen her many times. I get your point,
but I'm just saying he knew he wanted to do this.
He was thinking about it for some time. He arrived
at the house when the parents weren't home, so he
knew the time of opportunity. So it wasn't just some
crazy act that he did out of the blue.

Speaker 4 (47:56):
No, that's why I'm saying it probably done it.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
Okay, I mean it is possible, but we don't have
any evidence of that. No, I know, but it certainly
was on his mind and the idea of him raping
someone before.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
I think that's probably true.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
So the prosecutor's first witness was Sheriff Mike Oglesby. He
explained the events that happened on the night of May fifteenth,
nineteen ninety nine. He detailed the nine one one call
that came into the Sheriff's department in which Trina Roberts
called stating that her twelve year old niece Andy was missing.
Sheriff Oglesby arrived at the Brewer's house about eight forty pm,

(48:35):
and he began an initial investigation and thought that he
was dealing with a runaway, but as the night progressed,
he had got feeling that this case was more because
Andy did not have any history of running away. He
described that on Sunday, May sixteenth, he called the FBI
and the Arkansas State Police in on the case because

(48:55):
Andy had not been seen or heard from since her disappearance,
so the only clue they had was the description of
a red pickup truck. There were only two red pickups
in the area, and one belonged to Carl Roberts, the
other to Bobby Stone. And don't forget the step kids
recognized him. I don't know why that was written off
so easily.

Speaker 4 (49:16):
Yeah, they're just little kids, I suppose, but twelfy memories.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
The next witness called by the state was Lynne Benedict
with the Arkansas State Police, who recounted the interrogation of
Carl Roberts. Prosecutor Williamson introduced the crime scene photos also
and asked if these were the photos taken by him.
These photos were unbearable for Rebecca to look at, and
she had to leave the courtroom in tears, feeling sick

(49:43):
to her stomach. While she was out of the room
with her mother, the defense team actually tried to prove
to the jury that Andy had had consensual sex with Carl,
a twelve year old. They tried to say that she
had enticed him. Disgusting blame. You know, this is a
child though. This is just way beyond anything that should

(50:04):
be allowable. The defense had hired an expert witness, doctor
Lee Archer, a well respected neurologist, and he was the
one who told the jury that because of Carl's brain injury,
it would be impossible for him to conform his actions
to the law. The same was true for his temper,
which flared frequently. Carl had fits of anger toward his wife,

(50:26):
during which he had choked her. She said five times,
but I believe it was probably more, and at least
once to the point of unconsciousness. Doctor Archer testified that
Carl had told him he had killed Andy because he
was angry with Gregg's mother Anne, for suggesting that the
two families vacation together, and that just seems ridiculous. Carl

(50:48):
had said he wanted to take a vacation with his
own family, not his mother in law, and we find
out later that he never mentioned this to the state
doctor who examined him in October of ninety nine, but
somehow he had found it important to say to the
defense's doctor in February of two thousand. The prosecutor did

(51:10):
a strong cross of this doctor, and there were no
solid answers about behavior that caused a person to commit
such a heinous act. Twenty years after the injury, Archer
went forward though, saying that the type of brain injury
Karl had was the reason he had choked his wife
and why he had always struggled with a jealousy problem.

(51:31):
He spoke about how that person would create disturbances in
public places because they were unable to control their behavior
in everyday life. But Carl had presented with none of
these problems, though, and he did seem to be able
to control himself.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
Before the incident, the.

Speaker 4 (51:48):
State called William Paget, who lived next door to the
elder Brewers. Paget was the last person to see Andy alive.
He had been driving home from a fishing trip on
May fifteenth, nineteen ninety nine when he met Carl driving
down the road leading away from the Brewer of residents.
Carl had almost run Paget into the ditch. Carl waved

(52:09):
and then drove by. Nothing seemed particularly abnormal, except that
Carl had almost run him off the road. He noticed
the top of a small head peering above the dash,
which she now knew must have been Andy. Initially he
had thought it was Carl's four year old daughter. Carl
must have been holding her down in the seat or
shoving her into the floorboard, and this really disturbed him.

Speaker 3 (52:33):
Well, imagine you're the one that last sees this girl
right in the process of being abducted. You're the only
one who possibly could have saved her. But you had
no reason to think that.

Speaker 4 (52:44):
No, none at all.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
No, but still it must haunt you to be the
last one to see her alive, and in.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
That situation, absolutely so.

Speaker 3 (52:52):
The final witness for the state was doctor Charles Mallory,
a state psychologist. Doctor Mallory had interviewed Carl in October
of ninety nine at the State Hospital in Little Rock, Arkansas.

(53:25):
Doctor Mallory testified that Carl had never mentioned to him
the reason he had killed Andy was because he was
angry with his mother in law, Anne about taking a
family vacation. I mean, that doesn't even make sense. He
raped this girl. It was definitely a sex crime. He's
a pedophile, clearly, so, the doctor said, if Carl had

(53:46):
been acting out of control or like an animal because
of this brain defect, what happened would have just happened
right then and there. Instead, Carl had picked a time
when he knew no one would be home with Andy.
He had noted that Andy's father, Greg was not at home,
nor was her stepmother. He said something came over him

(54:07):
that he knew he had to get Andy. But despite
this being described as a compulsion, he was able to
wait and plan this out quite a bit. So this
all indicated he had the capacity to control his behavior,
the doctor testified. He also testified that Carl had said
that he was not sexually attracted to Andy, but we

(54:28):
know that two months prior to her death, he had
wanted to look up her dress at a family gathering.
He said he couldn't stop thinking about her after that.
So the courtroom gasped at this. It just disgusted everyone
to know that Carl had been having fantasies about his
twelve year old niece Andy.

Speaker 4 (54:45):
So in the closing part of the trial, both attorneys
explained what they were asking the jury to do. Prosecution
was seeking a conviction of capital murder, for which they
would later have to decide the punishment during the sentencing phase,
life without parole or death. The defense was asking the
jury to quit Karl on grounds that he had not

(55:07):
been able to conform his actions to the law because
of his brain injury.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
So the jury was excused for deliberations at ten forty
five am and they were back at eleven nineteen am.
He was found guilty of first degree murder and he
was sentenced to die by lethal injection.

Speaker 4 (55:25):
So they deliberated for forty five minutes.

Speaker 3 (55:28):
Litt over half an hour, Yeah, very quick, it was obvious.

Speaker 4 (55:31):
Yeah. Oh, Plus he'd confessed.

Speaker 3 (55:33):
So it had been eight weeks since a jury had
convicted him of the violent crime he had committed against Andy,
and Karl had decided he wanted to die. To complete
this process, he had to go before the court and
request this motion because in Arkansas, upon the conviction and
sentencing of death, there was an automatic appeal given, whether
it was wanted or not. Prosecutor Williamson had called Rebecca

(55:58):
and told her that Roberts was done and that, according
to his attorneys, he just wanted to die. So Andy's
mother had mixed feelings about this. He was being given
the right to choose life or death when Andy had
had no choice. Death had not been what she had wanted.
She had wanted to live and to grow up and
have a life. So one Saturday night, Chris and Rebecca

(56:20):
had taken the girls to a relative's house. They grilled
and swam in their pool, and Kristin and Melanie played
with their seven year old cousin. All three girls were
having a fun time. But that same day, miles away,
in a suburb west of Tulsa, another seven year old
girl was playing outside with her twelve year old neighbor.
They were probably just enjoying the end of summer and

(56:42):
minding their own business, not aware that there was a
predator lurking nearby. Suddenly, a man snatched up both girls
and ran away with them. When the mother of the
seven year old stepped outside to check on the girls,
they were both gone. She panicked and tried everything she
could to find them, and then she called nine one one.
The responding officers were hoping the girls had wandered off

(57:06):
and just lost trek of time, but they did fear
the girls had been abducted. Three hours passed as search
teams walked the streets of this small town in search
of the two girls. There was no sign of them. Finally,
they checked an abandoned house. They knocked on the door
and then burst inside when they heard a scream, and
to their horror, they found the abductor with the girls.

(57:29):
The seven year old had been strangled and was already dead.
The other had been repeatedly sexually assaulted, but she was
still alive. The man who had taken them was a
nineteen year old repeat juvenile sex offender who was not
registered as a sex offender because all of his offenses
had occurred before he was eighteen years old. After the

(57:49):
death of the seven year old, several Oklahoma lawmakers created
the Oklahoma Juvenile Sex Offender Law, which required violent juvenile
sex offenders to register. Rebecca heard about this case the
next day when she read the newspaper, and she wanted
to reach out to the families, but didn't know how,
so she called up Colleen Nick at the Morgan Nick

(58:11):
Foundation and asked her. She said that she would call
the police department try to offer support to the family's
through Team Hope, but neither family received her message, saying
that she wanted to help. Feeling desperate to reach out
to the mother of the seven year old, Rebecca wrote
her a letter. She said she was moved with compassion
for the woman she'd never met, and later that week

(58:33):
she took flowers and the letter to the funeral home
in honor of Andy and in memory of the seven
year old. When Rebecca arrived at the funeral home, she
saw that the tiny casket in front of the room
had the lid open, and inside was the body of
a young girl. The little girl had blonde hair the
same color as Andy's, and a small, rounded face. She

(58:55):
noticed the bruising on her neck from being strangled, and
her knees went weak. The resemblance to Andy was very
jarring and softly. In the background, an oregon was playing
a sad song. It was just a surreal feeling. Seeing
this child in that casket was so wrong and unnatural.
She had had a full life ahead and it had
been stolen from her. A few months later, the child's

(59:18):
aunt did call Rebecca and told her the child's mother
had received her letter and wanted to speak with her.
She needed help and she was not coping well. So
Rebecca called her and offered some words of comfort. They
spoke several times over the next few months, and she
asked if Rebecca would go with them to court, so
she told her she would go and support the family.

(59:41):
But then they all found out at the preliminary hearing
that the defense and the prosecution had come to an agreement.
They had agreed on life without parole in exchange for
no trial, where the child rapist and murderer probably would
have gotten the death penalty. So the family of the
victim had not been consulted and her Her father was
especially distraught about this, as he hugged Rebecca and wept.

(01:00:05):
She made the decision that she would dedicate her life
to fighting for all the little children who deserved justice.
Images of that little girl lying in her casket with
bruises on her neck would be forever imprinted in her mind,
so Rebecca did continue to work as an advocate. She
earned a Bachelor of Science degree in criminal justice in

(01:00:26):
twenty thirteen from Arkansas Tech University, and she since pursued
a master's degree in leadership and ethics at John Brown University.
Rebecca would eventually divorce and remarry, and she became active
in the Republican Party. She was a representative in the
Arkansas State House of Representatives District ninety four from twenty

(01:00:48):
fourteen to twenty twenty one, and she's also a founding
member of the Surviving Parents Coalition.

Speaker 4 (01:00:55):
In January, the state was ready to execute Carl Roberts.
The execution was on and Andy's family members were told to
go to the Department of Corrections headquarters. After they arrived,
they were led into a large room. After brief weight
at the DOC headquarters, they were ushered into a van.
They traveled in a convoy with several other vans to

(01:01:16):
the Varner Unit in Grady, Arkansas. When they pulled up
to the prison entrance, they were driven into a place
surrounded by security fencing. There they met up with Prosecutor
Williamson and people with the Arkansas State Police, the FBI,
and news media. Now, instead of being led into the
execution chamber, they were taken into the warden's office, where

(01:01:38):
they were informed that they would watch the execution over
closed circuit television. The prosecutor, police, and news media were
taken into the execution chamber, so the family was upset
that they would be watching the execution on a small TV.
Then the phone rang. The guard answered and said that
was Governor Huckabee. We have a stay of execution.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
So Rebecca and the family were upset about this. I
can't relate.

Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
I'm not in favor of the death penalty, but I
certainly can't judge because it's not my child that was murdered.
So it turned out that the ACLU had spoken to
Roberts and he was appealing his sentence after he had
spent the last five years waiving his right to appeal.
Arkansas law gives an automatic appeal to those who receive
a sentence of death, and he didn't want it. For

(01:02:25):
five years, he had petitioned to the court to waive
it and had been granted the waiver, and now he
changed his mind. So months later, Roberts filed his petition
for writ of habeas corpus in federal District court, and
this would begin two decades of litigation in state and
federal courts. In December of twenty fourteen, Andy's father, Gregory Brewer,

(01:02:48):
physically tried to attack Roberts in one of the courtroom proceedings.
What he did was he jumped the partition in the courtroom,
but he was tackled to the ground by Polk County
Sheriff's Office deputies and transported to the Polk County jail.

Speaker 4 (01:03:02):
So a.

Speaker 3 (01:03:03):
Brewer had not been able to land any blows on
his daughter's killer before being stopped by the authorities. He
was arrested on suspicion of third degree assault, obstructing governmental operations,
and resisting arrest, which are all misdemeanors, and he was
released from jail on seven hundred and thirty dollars bond.
But it did make the news. It was quite an episode.

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
Then.

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
By twenty twenty two, a federal District court denied Robert's
nineteen habeas corpus claims, but it did grant a certificate
of appealability on three claims, whether Roberts was intellectually disabled,
competent to be tried, competent to waive his direct appeal.
The court then expanded this to include two ineffective assistants

(01:03:47):
of council claims, whether council was ineffective for failing to
properly investigate and challenge Robert's competency to be tried, and
failing to investigate and present evidence of Robert's mental health
as mitigating evidence at sentencing. So the United States Court
of Appeals reviewed the case and they affirmed the district

(01:04:07):
court's denial of Robert's habeas petition. The court agreed with
the Arkansas Court's findings that Roberts was not intellectually disabled,
was competent to stand trial, and was competent to waive
his direct appeal. The court also found that Robert's trial
council was not ineffective, as the council's performance did not

(01:04:29):
fall below an objective standard of reasonableness, whatever that means.
They also found there was no prejudice, so the court
concluded that Carl Roberts failed to show that the outcome
of his trial would be different because of the alleged
errors by his counsel. So, as for the latest updates,
he does remain incarcerated, but he still has not been executed.

(01:04:51):
Legal proceedings may still be ongoing, which could affect his
status in the future, you know, And that's just another
issue with the death penalty. He usually doesn't happen or
takes decades to.

Speaker 4 (01:05:03):
Happen, as this case shows.

Speaker 3 (01:05:05):
Yes, I guess it's just how you look at it.
I think the way I look at it is, the
more time you're in prison, the more of a punishment.
I mean, death is just kind of an easy way
out in some ways. Plus you have the whole factor
of not wanting to end up executing an innocent person,
which has happened. It's a real problem. Yeah, of course

(01:05:26):
in this case we know he wasn't innocent, but still
I don't think the death penalty is really working out
very well because he's still alive anyway, even if you
want him put to death.

Speaker 4 (01:05:36):
Twenty five years have gone by.

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
Yeah, so it's just a tragedy all around. There cannot
be justice for something so horrible. I think that's the problem.
No matter what you do to him, it's not going
to bring her back, and it's not going to make
anything fairy.

Speaker 4 (01:05:51):
Who says it has to be.

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
Fair, right, Well, I think we all search for fairness.
We want things to be fair.

Speaker 4 (01:05:57):
Well, wanting and actually having.

Speaker 3 (01:05:59):
Don't work out now aren't the same, no, exactly. So
just really sad, and thank you to Rebecca Petty for
writing her book. Was really kind of an honor to
read about her daughter, and just really sad just to
read about all the parents who have gone through things
like this and what they have to deal with.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
It's really horrible.

Speaker 4 (01:06:18):
Yeah, it's something I wouldn't even want to think about.

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
No, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Speaker 4 (01:06:23):
So I'm done talking.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
Well, let's do a little feedback, okay.

Speaker 6 (01:06:28):
All right, I'll talk about that, okay, and then I'll
be done.

Speaker 4 (01:06:40):
It's time for listener feedback. Okay, So feedback.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
Yeah, who's the verset voicemail?

Speaker 4 (01:06:59):
Voicemail is from our friend Nate, one of our best listeners.

Speaker 3 (01:07:03):
Well probably our best I mean at least our most
involved in, most outspoken, and probably the one who gives
us the most case suggestions. It's just a real true
crime person. He's on top of a lot of the
latest cases and is always coming up with new ideas.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
All right, well let's hear what he had to say.

Speaker 4 (01:07:20):
Let's do that.

Speaker 7 (01:07:21):
Hi, Dick and Gel, it's your favorite fan, Nate, biggest fan, Nate,
not favorite fan. Anyway, I was up late doing some
true crime research. I have the case from Australia that
you guys might like. It is the death of Azaria
Chamberlain in nineteen eighty. She was taken by a dingo

(01:07:43):
at Boolooroo, which is this Sacred Rock to the Aborigines
in Australia, and she was taken and killed by a dingo,
but her parents were charged because they thought that, you know,
at that point there'd been no fatal dingo attack in
Australian history, at least recorded, and so they thought the
parents had killed her, and it was this gigantic miscarriage

(01:08:06):
of justice. And I think you guys, being incredibly detailed
and well researched, would make a great.

Speaker 4 (01:08:14):
Episode out of that.

Speaker 7 (01:08:15):
I would also like to suggest the Wilight Zone film
accident where three people died, including two small children and
a stuntman. I think that definitely needs more coverage. And
then the third one is actually the Sweet Tomatoes crash

(01:08:40):
in Newton, Massachusetts with Bradford Castler. I think I recommended
that before, but I also think it's important because it
does need coverage anyway. I hope the weather is starting
to cool off down in the southwest. We're kind of
having this high low, high low period of Massachusetts even
in October, where one day is sixty degrees and the

(01:09:03):
next day is eighty degrees. So who the hell knows
how whether we're even going to have a winter at
this point. Anyway, hope you guys are doing well. Cheers well,
thanks Nate.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
So the dingo ate my baby. We all know that one.

Speaker 4 (01:09:21):
Yeah, we've talked about doing that here as an episode.

Speaker 3 (01:09:24):
Yeah, I think that might be a good premium episode
because was there really a crime.

Speaker 1 (01:09:29):
We don't think so, right, right right?

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
And then the Twilight Zone accident, was there a crime
involved there? Tell me a little bit about that.

Speaker 4 (01:09:36):
Well, what happened there is in July of nineteen eighty two,
a helicopter crashed in Indian Wells, California, during the filming
with Twilight Zoned. The movie killed We're actor Bick Morrow
in two Asian child actors ages six and seven. What
happened They were filming a scene where Morrow was rescuing

(01:09:56):
the two Asian kids and a helicopter was flying overhead.
Something went off and the helicopter was crashing and Morrow
and one of the kids was killed, decapitated by the
blades of the helicopter.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
I didn't know that.

Speaker 4 (01:10:12):
And the other little child was crushed by parts of
the helicopter.

Speaker 3 (01:10:18):
Some criminal charges were brought, but the movie was acquitted.

Speaker 4 (01:10:21):
Of criminal charges. Yeah, but they've had several civil charges.

Speaker 3 (01:10:25):
Okay, So I do remember Vic Morrow being killed. Do
you remember hearing about that when I was younger, but
didn't even know about the kids, which is sad that
he got more publicity than they did.

Speaker 4 (01:10:37):
Maybe yeah, here's a star.

Speaker 3 (01:10:39):
But I did love that Twilight Zone story. It was
about the bigot who came out of the bar after
being a real dickhead and ended up being like a
Jew in Nazi Germany, Viet Cong in Vietnam. Right, Yeah,
so he was the victim of all of this bigotry afterwards.
So it was a great story and I'm just kind
of surprised they still kept it in the movie after

(01:11:01):
such a horrible thing happened.

Speaker 1 (01:11:03):
But that's the eighties for you, I guess.

Speaker 3 (01:11:05):
Okay, So this Sweet Tomatoes, what's that?

Speaker 4 (01:11:08):
Well, we've talked about it before. Another one in eight's voicemails. Okay,
this is about a gentleman named Brad Castler who in
March of twenty sixteen drove his car into a piece
of shop, killed two people and injured seven others. Now
Castler has multiple sclerosis, and his attorney claimed that the
MS was the cause of the accident.

Speaker 3 (01:11:28):
It sounds like it's possible not knowing anything more.

Speaker 4 (01:11:31):
Well, he was found guilty of vehicular homicide and negligent
operation and got four years in prison.

Speaker 3 (01:11:37):
So do we know if that actually was the cause?
Which did they determine?

Speaker 4 (01:11:41):
I think it's tough to know direct cause and effect,
but certainly it can make you driving difficult.

Speaker 3 (01:11:47):
Well, sure, but I just wonder was there any motive?
Was there any reason why he would have purposely done that?

Speaker 4 (01:11:51):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:11:52):
Okay, all right, but I'll read some more about it.

Speaker 4 (01:11:54):
It is interesting, how do you take someone's license away?
Licensed to drive?

Speaker 3 (01:11:59):
Well, I think if you do, you have an illness
like that, you probably should have a doctor who needs
to check on you periodically. But you're saying that probably
doesn't really exist in reality.

Speaker 4 (01:12:08):
I think in reality, you.

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
Probably drive around until something happens.

Speaker 4 (01:12:12):
Well, look at my mother driving a car, and she's
ninety two years old, right, and she had no more
right to be driving a car at that point in
her life.

Speaker 3 (01:12:23):
Well, no, I mean the reflexes slow down, her vision
wasn't great.

Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
Now, but for.

Speaker 4 (01:12:28):
Self reporting, how many elderly people are, people that have conditions,
medical conditions, how many of them are voluntarily going to say, okay,
take my license?

Speaker 3 (01:12:37):
Well, probably not many. I think age is a different
thing though. I think that there are some things like
eye exams and tests after a certain age in some states,
not everywhere, but I think that's a good idea. But
as far as having an illness and being a young person, who's.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
Even going to check in on that?

Speaker 4 (01:12:54):
Exactly right?

Speaker 3 (01:12:55):
So it's usually until something happens, yeah, which is you know,
tragic for whoever it's injured or killed, and really also
for the driver, because if this was an innocent guy
who just had a disability, I'm certain he did not
feel good about being responsible for deaths. That has to
be horrific. Oh yeah, yeah, okay, And did Nate sound

(01:13:16):
a little throaty to you? He almost had kind of
the doctor Dick voice there. He must have a cold
or something, and I remember him sounding like that. Well sure,
but he was definitely more throaty, scratchy than normal. No
problem with that for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
So the next voicemail is.

Speaker 4 (01:13:33):
From from Kelsey.

Speaker 3 (01:13:34):
All right, let's see what Kelsey has to say.

Speaker 2 (01:13:38):
Hi, Jilling Dick.

Speaker 1 (01:13:38):
My name is Kelsey.

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
I'm calling from southern New Jersey.

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
Dick.

Speaker 2 (01:13:43):
I'll probably know this, but you know how we like
to section off the state into where you live because
I don't live near New York. I live near Philadelphia,
so my accent's probably a little different. But I've been
listening to you guys for almost as long as've been
doing this. My favorite episode is Murder on palm Ira.
We listened to it about four or five times. I
love you guys. You guys really really follow through with

(01:14:06):
all of your research, and I wanted to cover something
that is close to home for me. I personally don't
know this person, but this is my dad's cousin. My
dad comes from a very large family. He's like his
dad is one of eleven, so he has so.

Speaker 1 (01:14:21):
Many cousins that I've never met.

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
But this may have been discussed previously, but I would
think this would be a really interesting case if it
hasn't already been in your wheelhouse. Back in twenty twenty one,
Ohen Nicholson went on crime spree that started in an
RV park in North Bend, Oregon and ended in his
surrender in Wisconsin. This led to the murders of his
father Charles Nicholson eighty three, Anthony Oyster seventy four, which

(01:14:45):
is my dad's cousin, and his wife Linda Oyster seventy
three and the marijuana dispensary worker Jennifer Davidson at forty seven.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
Innovating the law.

Speaker 2 (01:14:56):
He kidnapped a woman named Lar Johnson thirty four while
she was on her line to break in the parking
lot heading to her car. Allegedly, he made her drive
from Oregon to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, where he had turned himself
in doing research. I heard that he was in an
out psychiatric hospitals, was having issues with schizophrenia. I was
just wondering what information both of you could come up

(01:15:17):
with and what you could find because this case is
fascinating to me. My dad is since I brought this
up to him now, he really wants to know if
you guys can find any more information on this. And
I honestly feel so much for that woman that was kidnapped,
the journey of going across country with this person just

(01:15:40):
you know, threatening them to drive them all the way
from Oregon to Wisconsin. Unfortunately, I do not have a
beer review because I am nine months pregnant and I'm
actually doing any day now, so I could suggest to
find something in Oregon or I guess in Fort Lauderdale
because that's where my and is from. But obviously, Dick,

(01:16:02):
that's your wheelhouse. Once I can start drinking again, I'll
probably give better reviews. But I love you guys, and
thank you so much for being great.

Speaker 3 (01:16:12):
Thank you well, Congratulations Kelsey, and congratulations on your baby.

Speaker 1 (01:16:17):
When was this voicemail left?

Speaker 4 (01:16:18):
Oh jeez, two or three weeks ago? She must have
had the baby by now.

Speaker 3 (01:16:24):
Okay, Well, congratulations. I hope everything went well. We'll be
happy to look into this case. I had to smile
when you mentioned Paul Meyra, because I am that way.
If I find a podcast I like, sometimes I'll focus
on one episode I really enjoyed and just listen to
it over and over, which I always think is weird.
So I'm glad I'm not the only one kind of

(01:16:44):
obsesses over the one episode that you just enjoy. So
it's kind of like comfort something to just kind of
comfort you because you already know the information, right, Yes.

Speaker 4 (01:16:54):
You already know. What I found in my brief look
at things was just as Kelsey said. He apparently is schizophrenic.
His trial had been delayed for quite some time because
of the arguments about sane enough to say on trial
or not but when he did get to trial, he
was found guilty. The verdict was guilty except for insanity.

Speaker 1 (01:17:17):
Okay, So that means you're guilty but insane.

Speaker 4 (01:17:20):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:17:21):
So instead of going to a prison, you normally go
to like a mental health facility, a state mental health facility.
So not anything luxurious, no, no, okay, Well that's a
really tragic story that affected a lot of people. Yeah,
so I can't promise anything, but we will definitely look
into it. That we can promise.

Speaker 4 (01:17:40):
Yeah, and I liked your non New York accent there. Yeah,
so I guess that's what happens when you're from South Jersey.

Speaker 3 (01:17:48):
Well yeah, and then you moved to Maine as a child,
so you have more of the manor thing going on.

Speaker 4 (01:17:52):
I have that, and I was raised for ten years
in northern New Jersey before we moved to Maine. So
when I first moved to Maine, I had a wicked
New York accident.

Speaker 1 (01:18:01):
Did you Oh that's funny.

Speaker 3 (01:18:03):
Did the kids make fun of you or anything they did?

Speaker 1 (01:18:05):
Oh that's hilarious.

Speaker 3 (01:18:07):
Well you were very self assured, didn't bother you, I'm sure.

Speaker 4 (01:18:10):
And I thought it was funny.

Speaker 3 (01:18:11):
Okay, good, all right, Okay, so I think we have
an email you can read us and then we'll wrap it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:17):
Up for the day.

Speaker 4 (01:18:18):
Okay, let me find it. So the email is from
Mallory and she writes, love, love, love your podcast. I
found you after watching the Netflix documentary on Jason Corbett's
case and is looking for more coverage on the story.
I've been hooked ever since.

Speaker 3 (01:18:36):
Well, nice, because that's pretty recent.

Speaker 1 (01:18:38):
We watched that documentary. It was really good.

Speaker 4 (01:18:41):
I have a case suggestion. I'm not through all your episodes,
so I'm sorry if you've already covered it, but I'd
love to hear you guys do the Jennifer Kessei case.
This is an unsolved one, so I'd love to hear
your theories on what happened. I saw this case on
Unsolved Mysteries years ago and it's one I check on
often to see if they found Thanks to keep up

(01:19:02):
the great work, Mallory.

Speaker 3 (01:19:03):
Yes, well, we're quite familiar with that case. We have
not covered it, though, so it's a great recommendation. It's
something our daughter who lives in Tampa has recommended as well,
so definitely something that would be worth covering. We don't
do a lot of unsolved cases and it's not because
we don't want to. So actually I would be interested
in that. I think that's a great recommendation.

Speaker 4 (01:19:26):
Yeah, just briefly on the case. She had disappeared from
Orlando condominium January of two thousand and six. Her car
was found three days later about a mile from her condo. Yeah,
Jennifer's never been found and it's been a cold case
for years. But in December twenty twenty two, the investigation
was turned over to the cold case unit of the

(01:19:47):
Florida Department of Law Enforcement. Then in May of this year,
FDL announced that they had reviewed the case and there
were several new persons of interest, so interesting, it's no
longer closed. And then in October this year, last month
the FDL, he announced they had discovered untested DNA and
they had been able to reduce a number of suspects

(01:20:09):
to just a few. Interesting and so her case, as
I said, is now an open case.

Speaker 3 (01:20:14):
Well, I know that her parents have been very outspoken,
and I also recall that there was construction going on
in her condo complex, and there was a lot of
suspicion among the men that were working there, because I
believe some were actually.

Speaker 1 (01:20:29):
Allowed to stay and make it units.

Speaker 3 (01:20:31):
There, and there'd been some situations where women there did
not feel comfortable.

Speaker 4 (01:20:36):
No, I was mentioned in one of the articles I
looked at. Yeah, she was a tall, attractive bond woman.

Speaker 3 (01:20:43):
Yeah, and successful and a successful, smart woman who had
a really nice boyfriend. But it was a long distance relationship,
I believe.

Speaker 4 (01:20:51):
Yeah, well, they were talking about becoming less of a
long distance relationship.

Speaker 1 (01:20:55):
Yeah, I think they were getting serious.

Speaker 4 (01:20:57):
But you know, she had mentioned to of the co workers,
you know, the people, that she wasn't comfortable walking past
where the workers were because they cat call her.

Speaker 1 (01:21:07):
I can imagine.

Speaker 3 (01:21:08):
Yeah, that is that's scary when that happens. Yeah, especially
living alone like that, it can be really terrifying. So
that's kind of where I was leaning to someone like
that had done something to her. Just from my own
limited knowledge, that's the way I was leaning. But I
would love to investigate that further. And yeah, let's think
about doing an episode on that. I know it's been

(01:21:29):
recommended probably several times over the past nine years.

Speaker 4 (01:21:33):
Well, I want to see the DNA testing.

Speaker 1 (01:21:35):
Yeah, let's look into that.

Speaker 4 (01:21:36):
Okay, we'll follow this along and see what gets found out.

Speaker 3 (01:21:40):
Okay, Okay, Well, Thank you, Mallory. I think that's a
great suggestion as well.

Speaker 4 (01:21:44):
Yeah, that's all I got for feedback.

Speaker 3 (01:21:46):
Okay, well, we're going to wrap things up for today.
Have a bonus episode we're working on, which is Daniel Piquette,
fairly well known case from New Hampshire if you've heard
of it. That's something to look forward to if you're
a team Tigrammer.

Speaker 1 (01:21:59):
Remember.

Speaker 3 (01:22:00):
So that'll be coming out soon, and then we'll have
our regular episode coming out soon, which is a Virginia case.
So have you got some good Virginia beers ready?

Speaker 4 (01:22:08):
Think? So?

Speaker 3 (01:22:09):
I know you have New Hampshire beers because that's an
old haunt of ours.

Speaker 1 (01:22:13):
Oh yeah, yeah absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:22:15):
Okay, well, thank you everyone for listening, and we appreciate
so much your case suggestions. Those are just wonderful and
we'll see you next time.

Speaker 4 (01:22:23):
At the quiet end, plenty of seats come on down.

Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
Yep, bye bye bye, guys. I think in

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