Climbing Mount St. Felon

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Kaleb and Kyle bravely unpack what it means to return to Knoxville, Tennessee and Sonoma, California as gay adults who've built lives elsewhere. Their contrasting experiences highlight the psychological weight of hometowns for LGBTQ+ individuals. As Kyle notes, "There's a lot of trauma stored in hometowns for gay people."

The hosts explore the fascinating psychological shifts that happen when returning to spaces that once felt limiting. They share vulnerable stories about everything from their first time painting their nails (and the shame that initially came with it) to navigating family relationships that have surprisingly evolved over time. 

Whether you're planning your next hometown visit or processing your last one, this episode reminds you that going back doesn't mean going backward. Subscribe now and join our community of listeners navigating similar journeys with humor and heart.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So, kyle, I came home Friday night.
You were so kind, you picked meup from the airport, even
though it was like a millionhours past midnight, it felt
like, and my luggage wasn'tthere After you were stuck on
the tarmac, waiting for a gatefor an hour and then waiting for
your bag, which never came,which still has not been
delivered.
Yeah, it has.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
It came yesterday, Okay good, thank you for
checking.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
And then finally, like two hours after you landed,
I was ready to come home,uh-huh, but it was actually
quite easy not having to pullluggage on that.
That is a positive, but anywayso then, Saturday it was
Saturday Kyle's at home doingnothing.
I'm at home doing nothing.
I'm picking candles, other thangoing to try to fill my fucking

(00:44):
Adderall prescription.
That wasn't don't even getstarted any hoosers.
So this episode might be wild.
I was like, oh, do you want togo to like a dive bar or
something?
We even toured around with theidea of pickleball, so we go to
White Center and Kyle the firstthing he did this night to piss
me off is he's great atskee-ball for no fucking reason.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, I didn't know.
It's like a hidden talent, Iguess yeah and you know how I
was cocky.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
I was like, oh, I for sure can do this.
Yeah, I was so bad, yeah, andit pissed me off.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
So we first started with classic skee-ball and who
could get the most points intheir round, and I won that
first round.
And then Caleb was like, okay,we're going to change the rules,
we're going to, like, dosomething else.
And so then it became like youhave to get one of each a 10

(01:34):
point, a 20 point, a 30 point, a40 point, a 50 point and a
hundred point Thank you forlisting all of them.
Yeah, so that you had to getyou know into six holes and
those nine balls.
Yes, and um, my first try.
I get all six of them.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
And it makes me so irate, kyle, because I gave it
so much effort, and if I'm notimmediately okay at something
pisses me off.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
So Caleb loses the second round.
Then we move on to a new gameand we call it like we don't
call it anything.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
How?

Speaker 2 (02:03):
many hundreds can you get, so game, and we call it
like we don't call it anything.
How many hundreds can you get?

Speaker 1 (02:15):
so basically you just had to get at least a 100 in
order to qualify to win.
And uh, you got on your firsttry.
I got on my first try.
Caleb did not get any.
I got nine ten points yeah,yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
so anyways, caleb.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
uh, we bet a round of drinks for each one, so Caleb
owed me three rounds of drinks,which is wild, because why would
I do that after we had alreadyplayed a couple rounds and I've
lost miserably and I'm like,yeah, let's do it, because I'm
like I'm confident I can do it.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Couldn't.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
Never hit $100.
I was paying for the skee-ball.
That's fair.
Those $4, really comparable tome losing and buying.
Drink those $4, reallycomparable to me losing and
buying drink.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
But then we were like , okay, we're in White Center.
There's this cool kind of divebar across the street from where
we were and it's called Tim'sTavern and I was like, let's go
see what's happening over there.
And my friend, erin Doyle,hosts this event every year,
called Our Fest, and it's kindof like a punk rock festival

(03:08):
where she puts togetherdifferent acts that are kind of
in that punk rock genre and dragqueens that are more in the
Cantissimo.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
They were all like rock pop bands and drag
performers.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
And so we stumbled upon her event happening at
tim's tavern and it was so muchfun, oh my god.
Yeah, they were doing tattoos,they were doing freaking tattoos
.
They had art, they had art, youhad tater tots.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
Oh yeah, no, that's art, that's art, fart, fart.
Hmm.
And then you're like, wait, dowe drive back home and take the
light rail or uber back here, ordo we go to the hill?
I'm like right, because I didn'twant to drive and we also just
I was going to be safe, yeah andwe also just spoke to um
lindsey, who is telling us abouther wild not out friday and

(04:01):
you're like I want to have anight like that.
I'm like, and I think even yousaid let's do it for the plot,
and I was like I want to have anight like that.
And I'm like, and I think evenyou said let's do it for the
plot, and I was like, okay.
So then after that you're likelet's go to my fav.
I'm like let's go to my fav andwe will continue this story at
the end.
Stay tuned, it's juicy.

(04:39):
But yeah, I did use chat gbt towrite an outline.
It does a pretty good job.
So I asked it initially give mefive thought-provoking
questions to ask on a podcastabout visiting back home as an
adult gay man.
And it gave me the fivequestions and then it said.
Would you like me to turn thisinto an outline?
Absolutely, and uh, what aresome of the other questions?
Oh, what is something you wish,younger, you could have known
about returning home as a futuregay self?
What a wild question.
Oh, that is good, yeah, and isthere a moment or a place in

(05:02):
your hometown that now feelscompletely different to you, and
why?

Speaker 2 (05:07):
those are very thought-provoking.
I know I'm provoked you'realways provoked.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
That's me being provoked, okay.
Well, I have so many, okay.
So first off this episode we'regoing to talk about two little
gays going back to theirhometown, what that relationship
looks like, how we've evolvedwith the relationships we have
with people family, friends,relationship to the city itself.
Um, we have severalthought-provoking questions that

(05:37):
I did not write um, yeah, and Ithink we're going to navigate
um by sharing some stories, butthen also like giving advice or
tips, or like you're not aloneif you feel this way, going back
home, because I feel likethere's a weird guilt that's
associated with some of thefeelings that you feel.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
They're not all positive.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
When you go back home , you're like this is my
motherland and I don't like it,you know.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
We both recently visited our hometowns, which is
Knoxville, Tennessee and Sonoma.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
California.
You're so Californian why Everytime I say Sonoma, california,
people go oh, sonoma.
I'm like you don't have to sayit with a weird British accent.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
It's wild, I don't say it like that, but everyone
thinks it's like.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
So pish posh, because William Sonoma is bougie, I
guess william sonoma maybethat's how you say it, sonoma no
, that's not how you smirma hushposh, smirsh, smir.
But you know what?

Speaker 1 (06:37):
I'd rather get that than well, tennessee and
tennesseeans, we didn't have aparticularly fond view of the
Californians, for whatever,reason Californians don't have a
fond view of TennesseansBecause they think we're dumb.
And is that true?
I'm not dumb, I just wascorrect about Jesus.
You didn't know that, so thatalone busts that myth.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yeah Well, we're about to bust a lot of myths
about hometown visits and whatit means to visit your hometown
as a gay person.
That's maybe left a small townor a conservative town for the
big city.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, and just the relationships with the town
itself, the people, family,friends, maybe even exes, right,
or like seeing people from highschool.
It's a whole new level.
If you live in the same town,you're going to be running into
people, but when you go backyou're like ugh.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
Well, I feel like there's a lot of trauma, like
stored trauma in hometowns forgay people because they grew up
maybe in a place that wasn'taccepting Knoxville Tennessee.
Mm-hmm, you know, sonoma, theygrew up maybe in a place that
wasn't knoxville, tennessee.
You know, sonoma, didn't I mean, but like you know, you were
bullied, probably in high school.
You, uh, you don't think so, itdefinitely was but like that

(07:54):
seems like really pointed.
I'm calling out.
Yeah, I'm calling out so calebwas a bully.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
No, I was bullying, I probably did some bullying
Right, like a little, just liketearing people down on the
internet.
You know, oh, you're a cyberbully.
No, that movie Cyber Bullyactually makes me cry every time
I see it, anyway.
So, yeah, we're talking aboutthat and I think one of the
things whenever we did theprevious soft open I talked
about, like the emotions, tipsand advice and about, like you

(08:24):
know, processing those emotions,going back home, changing the
relationship If you kind of havea negative viewpoint of your
hometown, and then also justlike normalizing the
conversation of some of theemotions Because, like I said
earlier, I feel like there'sweird guilt, kind of
intermingled, intertwined withsome of that.
Okay, how has your definitionof home changed since coming out

(08:47):
and what is going back now?
Bring up emotionally.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
Well, I would say, growing up I felt like Sonoma
was like a really small town andthere wasn't a lot of space for
queer kids to be themselves orto embrace you know the
differences that they had.
At least that's how I felt.
Then I, you know, also beingclose to San Francisco, felt

(09:16):
like, oh, it's not that far away, where there's this whole world
where people accept you for whoyou are and embrace the fact
that it's okay to be differentand you know it's celebrated
there.
And so I kind of had this likedichotomy, I guess, between
growing up in kind of like asmall rural agricultural town

(09:37):
with this huge gay mecca, kindof like at my doorstep there's
like this hope, you know thislike light at the end of the
tunnel, where it's like, oh, Ican get out of this little town
and I can have space to likejust embrace being who I want to
be and or just, you know, thespace to discover who I want to
be and the freedom to do thatoutside of the confines of a

(10:00):
town that you know I grew up inthat was kind of trying to
repress me or put me into a boxthat I wanted to, you know, not
be in.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
Yeah, I'd put you in a bag instead and then throw me
in the trash.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
No.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
Just put you in there inside of a box.
Okay, it's a little bit moreflimsy.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
I'm going to put you inside of a box and then I'm
going to smash it with a hammer.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
See, guys, I told y'all last week he actually
hates me.
After all that I did for youlast night, I hope you get the
worst ingrown toenail.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
That's never going to happen.
I have very good toenails.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
Wow, we get it.
You're perfect.
You're from Sonoma.
They have great toenails inSonoma.
Okay, I'll answer my ownquestion.
My definition of home and homehas changed.
It's almost the completeopposite.
You were talking about how youhave this big mecca gay city so
nearby and the whole world andgetting out, but there was never
a time in my life that I waslike would move out of Knoxville

(11:01):
.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
I'm never going to escape.
I need to figure out what myidentity is here.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
I just didn't know, I've never known, I didn't know
of anyone that has moved away.
My entire family still livesthere, every generation still
lives there.
It's almost like exposure.
I've never been exposed tosomeone doing that, so I didn't
even think it was in the cardsor their hands.
I think that's how mydefinition of home has changed,

(11:29):
is I thought it wasgeographically like that is home
, but it's not necessarily in away of yeah, you can have
multiple kind of homes, like youknow.
Like let's say, you have areally good friend in Portland
and you visit them, even thoughwe just had that we hate Oregon,
um, but that could be a home toyou.
And then you have your home inyour hometown and then where you

(11:50):
live currently, like does thatmake sense?
No, like shoot some, never mind.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
never mind, kyle god get my head oh, okay, I have to
do.
Yes, and what I wanted to knowis if you felt like or you
didn't didn't have theexperience that I did with like
having this strong pull to moveaway from your hometown and get
to a place that maybe allowedyou to, you know, explore your

(12:19):
identity more.
Do you feel like you were kindof forced to think about who you
are within the confines of yourhometown, like, okay, this is
what I'm like born into, this iswhere I'm gonna live the rest
of my life.
This is all I've ever known andprobably ever will know, and,
as a gay person, I need to makethis like town work for me and

(12:44):
work for you.
Know who I want to become.
Did you feel like that?

Speaker 1 (12:49):
Definitely Because and I think I've realized that
that I didn't when I actuallylived there.
I don't think I ever likethought about that specifically.
But now that I go back Irealize that all the things that
I did or thought, I enjoyed or,you know, did on the day to day
didn't necessarily fulfill mylife.

(13:10):
But I didn't know any otherlike way.
You know.
So, now that I go back and I'mlike I was just trying to make
this the best version of my life, only knowing the boundaries of
where I'm from.
So, yeah, I didn't actuallythink about it when I was living
there, but I did always, likein my gut, know that I was like
meant to get out of there.
I just never thought it wasgoing to be a thing, because

(13:31):
then I also had this wholeinternalized like conflict, that
like gay people keep moving outof these kind of more ignorant
areas and the best way to helpwith that ignorance is exposure
and like normalize.
And so I had this weird like ifI leave, I'm not helping our

(13:51):
community back home, because youknow there was bullying and all
this other shit.
So you wanted to like, be abeacon.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
You know within your community to be like no, you,
actually you can be gay and youcan thrive here and you don't
have to leave.
And you know be an example toother.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
You know queer kids growing up that there is a
community here and yeah, and I'mvery quick to share my opinion
or say out loud or stand up forsomething and you sure are be
real stubborn about it and Ifeel like not necessarily that I
was like this beacon oranything, but I feel like, even
like in high school, likenormalizing, having the

(14:32):
conversation, having the courageand bravery to come out, you
know, even though it was metwith a lot of backlash, I was
still like no, it's way moreimportant for me to be authentic
, but not only for me, but likeit does help the community,
because, like no one out likereally was out, like in my grade
or anything and now I know ofat least more than a handful

(14:54):
that are because of me.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
I made so when you went back home, did you feel
like, um, the community wasdifferent than it was when you
grew up there.
Or do you feel like there was alittle bit more like sparks of
hope that things had changed forthe better?
Or did you kind of fall backinto some of the you know
traumas that you, you know, orlike PTSD syndrome or symptoms?

(15:18):
Pussy, that's so delicious, yes, that you, you know, had
growing up there.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
I well, you asked me 17 questions in a sentence.
So the first one, the community.
I think it is more accepted,which is so nice, because then
it really and I know like it'snot on me to be the change or
the voice or whatever, but likeit's nice going back and
visiting and seeing that thereis an improvement and an
acceptance, because it takesaway that guilt or like conflict

(15:45):
that I put on myself about likeoh.
I'm leaving and like, who am I?
Like, oh, it's not going to getbetter if I'm not here.
Delusions of rancher yes, but Ithink that there still is
people who, like, will roll downyour window and like yell fag
at you while you're holdinghands and like when I lived
there, even though I I was outand proud, I was like I could do

(16:06):
without doing that, just so ittakes away like a negative
interaction.
Because for me, like pda, nomatter if a gay, straight,
whatever, like we, just you justreally don't do it in the south
yeah, it's kept behind closeddoors and at the church pews.
Um, so now I would do it justintentionally to be like.

(16:26):
If someone calls me a faggot,like then stand up or say
something to them.
Um, like, I even remember whenI went to nashville, um for
shania twain, and the personthat I went with had on the same
sparkly see-through pants as meand I saw someone taking a
photo and giggling.
And I go up to them.
I'm like why were you takingyour photo?
Like are you laughing?
I was like this is their firsttime in tennis in Nashville or

(16:49):
you're not going to ruin thisfor them.
You're not going to be.
And she was like I actuallytook the photo, I'm sending them
to my nephew or someone who'sgay.
And like I just wanted to likeshare how like you can be
yourself.

Speaker 3 (17:01):
And I was like and me over there attacking her.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
I know, and then, by the end of it, we ended up
taking multiple photos with themthat night.
It was so much fun, but I sothings have changed.
Yes, sorry Roundabout, butthere's still some ignorance.
But yeah, I'm actually shockedby Were you called fag.
Oh, yeah, on this trip, thistrip, yeah, no, oh, that's good.

(17:24):
Yeah, probably nope.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Only by other gay men , Because you weren't.
Oh, while they spit in yourmouth.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
Ew.
I do like spit, but don't callme a fag in the bedroom.
No, but okay, I was getting tosomething.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
Oh, okay, well, there was more parts to that question
.
Wait, I have a question for you, okay.
Do you feel like you were ableto kind of develop your queer
identity while you were inKnoxville, or do you think it
took leaving Knoxville in orderto really figure out who you are
as a person, whether that's inregards to your sexuality or

(18:05):
otherwise?

Speaker 1 (18:06):
good question I definitely think I had to move
out of knoxville to get to whereI am now and it's still weird,
if it's still like a weird thingto explore yourself because,
like in my brain, like therewere so many things that like,
yeah, they've always interestedme, but I was never going to
explore them, just because therewas always like pros and cons

(18:26):
of like, yeah, I'm a gay man,which, again, this may be
internalized homophobia towardsmyself as I'm saying it, yeah,
I'm a gay man, but like, yeah,like makeup really interests me,
but like I don't want to haveto deal with like any backlash,
I'm just not going to do it.
So it's like little parts that Iwas like oh that's not who I am
, that's not a part of mypersonality, but it's like
little parts that I was like oh,that's not who I am, that's not
a part of my personality, butit's like there's no larger,

(18:48):
small parts of your personality.
It's all those random which youknow.
I have a million different sidequests of things that spark joy
, and so I think moving away itallowed me the freedom because
no one was there to judge me andI don't give a shit.
I didn't know anyone Allowed meto like oh, maybe I will dabble
with makeup, or maybe I willdabble with this, Like I never
wore crop top or see-throughsparkly pants or Speedo back in

(19:08):
Knoxville?
Well, no, gay pool parties I did, but like I didn't especially
like outfit creativity and evensexual interest in dabbling, I
feel like it almost took awayboundaries that in my brain were
always there when I lived inKnoxville.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah, I feel like that's true just in general, for
you know anyone, whether you'regay or straight or you know
somewhere in between.
Like having space of your ownin order to remove all of the

(19:49):
preconceived notions and socialpressures and you know social
norms that kind of dictate howwe act and what we think and
what we believe and what ourvalue structures are, um, in
order to kind of like figure itout on your own.
You know what I mean.
Like without your family tellingyou and giving yourself that
freedom, which is cause I'm justsaying.

(20:11):
I don't know if it's just likea gay experience, but that's
fair, it might be.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Well, no, cause I think it's like on a much
smaller scale.
It's kind of similar, like topeople going off to college.
That's like, even in adifferent city than where they
are, like there still is morefreedom to kind of explore.
And I think that and I don'tknow if it's an adhd thing or
thing in general, like optionparalysis of like, no, I'm fine
with keeping my life how it was,because it was fine.

(20:35):
But yeah, I know it may beamazing if I try all these
things, but what if it's not?
And that could be like a traumathing because, like, trying to
express yourself or try newthings as a kid was met with
backlash.
You're like, if I just staystatus quo, I don't have to deal
with it.
So, but I had a good questionwhile you were talking about
that Do you do people in yourhometown, does their opinion

(20:56):
matter more or less to you?
Now that you moved away,because you know you're talking
about like the boundaries ofexploring yourself, and like
they gave you backlash, you werelike, oh, I'm not gonna do that
because their opinion mattersto me.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
But now I think that certain people probably have
hold more weight in my eyes, ortheir opinion has holds more
weight because you know they'vesupported me as I've like, grown
up with them and got to knowthem more, and they've been
there for me and the the peoplethat have supported me, no

(21:33):
matter what, you know, whetherI'm going through hard times or
you know some sort ofself-discovery or I've changed,
um, and they've continued toshow up for me through that
change I have.
I hold their opinion, you know,even higher than I did maybe
growing up, because the historyand the support Exactly yeah,
and you know they're not afraidto like call me out on my

(21:57):
bullshit, and when that doeshappen, because they've been
like so supportive in the past,then I rely on their opinion
even more to like give myself alittle check, whereas there are
definitely people like from myhometown that are not as close

(22:19):
to me that their opinions don'tmatter as much to me, but that's
because you know we've grownapart and because they haven't
been a consistent part of thatlife.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, so they don't.
They don't get to have anopinion if they don't know the
whole story Exactly.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
And those kind of those people you know, their
opinions are probably theloudest, because they they want
to bring you back into that boxthat they knew you in.
Uh huh, and those are thepeople that I try not to listen
to.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
It's interesting because I think so.
When I was living there, Ithink that the opinion of my
friends meant a lot to me, andthe opinion of my family maybe a
little less to my friends.
And I think it's because I wasexploring this new gay community
and I was like these peopleaccept me, what version or what

(23:09):
do will they accept and allowyou know out of, for areas for
me to explore, whereas my familythey were like, oh, like, we
know he's going off and doingthings, but they don't know
anything about this gay worldthat I was exploring.
So like, that's why not in meanway, did their opinion mean
less to me?
But now I realized that myfamily's opinion of me, or

(23:31):
opinion in general, means waymore than friends back home.
And I would say that looselybecause, like in the gay
population world, like I've meta lot of great friends and, yeah
, their opinion matters to me.
But but if they're importantenough in my life, whatever I do
, they're going to be there tosupport.
So the people who have anegative opinion, yeah, we give

(23:52):
each other help, but I don'tknow, it's like they want to all
bring you back into that box,except for a few that are going
to be there to always supportyou, but I find that a lot where
my family is like please go,continue to explore yourself and
try new things and all theseother things.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
So it's like inverse, from like when I live there
versus now.
Yeah, when you go back home, doyou feel like?

Speaker 1 (24:17):
you have to like go back into the closet at all it.
That is a really interestingquestion, I feel like not
necessarily like- you like ourcode, switching more where
you're like.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
You know, maybe don't use your slay.
You know vernacular, or?

Speaker 1 (24:30):
no, I I definitely feel like I bring my accent back
out when I go back home, umwhich, as a gay man, if you have
an accent like you, can kind ofget away with a lot yeah um,
but when I go back home I don'tnecessarily feel like I might go
back into the closet at all.
I definitely dress lazierbecause I feel like I don't have
to impress people.

(24:50):
So that as far as outfits go.
But then still to the bar.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
But still it's your choosing to do that.
Yeah, exactly, just becauseyou're lazy, but an external
person.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
It may look like I am code switching, but I just want
to wear Lululemon shorts andathletic shirts every day and
speak in a Southern accent Rightevery day and speak in a
Southern accent, Right.
And then I'll hear I'm like whatcrop top should I wear today
with my rainbow socks?
No, so like, like.
From your point of view itcould look like that, but no, Um
, uh, cause I still will pushthe boundary and I don't think

(25:25):
I'm like as wild with outfitswhen I go to Tennessee
specifically, but I still loveto like.
It's like you do, even like thefirst time you ever painted
your nails Like it was like.
oh, my God like I'm not supposedto do this, but it feels great
and like it kind of just is agood reminder throughout the day
of like, explore yourself, leaninto this.
This is great, you're enjoyingit.
Same thing with like back homeLike if I decide to wear an
outfit that like here, I wouldwear it to the fucking subway

(25:47):
there.
I do it and it's just like yeah,people are like yeah, maybe
people are looking at me orwhatever, but it's like wait,
this feels good, Like I'mpushing the bat.
It's almost like the box Inever explored.
I'm slowly exploring it.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
Yeah, I remember the first time I painted my nails.
By the end of the night I hadlike picked most of it off
because I was so likeself-conscious of it all.
But I was like so excited tolike go out with my nails
painted Cause I was like, oh mygosh, like this is so fun.
It's like you know a way toexpress myself and my queerness.
But then I was also likeashamed of it at the same time

(26:23):
and I was, like you know, hidingmy nails and I didn't want
anyone to see them, I justwanted them to be for me.
And by the end of the night Ihad like picked off most of it.
But it's a weird shift inmindset to go from like that
version of me that was like soafraid to like stand out to now
being like this is just who I am.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
It's like and we don't even think twice about
nail polish.
We're like, oh, what colorshould we put on today?

Speaker 2 (26:58):
But nail polish is just like a small example of of
you know, like hiding yourqueerness or being you know
proud, and there's somethingabout like the physical
perception of queerness.
I think that um can be reallyscary but also like really
empowering, kind of all at thesame time because of the
visibility of it it's so wildbecause I also I'm also thinking
.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
I remember the first time my nails were painted
because my toenails my sister,she's always been an ally shout
out hannah she painted them forme when she was like young,
young, and I remember so like onthe bathroom counter we had
this massive mirror and aftershe did it like they were drying
.
I'm just in there looking solike on the bathroom counter we
had this massive mirror andafter she did it like they were
drying, I'm just in therelooking at them on the counter,
like, and also in the mirror,and just remember feeling so

(27:38):
like.
This is so much fun and I thinkthat's why I started with
mostly toenails, because, like,I could cover it and hide it if
I needed to, but like, and thenmy parents ended up finding out
and they were like no, boys,don't do that.
Which.
That's all, I'm gonna leavethere, but it's so like.
That's such a good example,because now I went and got a

(27:59):
freaking pedicure when I wasjust back home and I had well in
one of my nails painted,because you left the day before
and I couldn't paint my otherone oh, my mom and I went and
got our nails painted togetherand the nail salon in Sonoma.
That's wild.
We're always just so in sync,but my mom didn't go yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
But also it's fun to see that growth with your
parents or people that you grewup with who at one point in time
said, boys don't paint theirnails, to now taking you to the
nail salon.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
And like it's, it is wild because, like, even then,
like like I'm not gay, I'm Caleband that might be my partner, I
might be going on a date, orlike it's so like normalized to
them now which is also anotherexample of painting the nails is
like I started getting my buttwaxed when I was 18 and I went
to the same girl Kendra downtownsmooth, meds Bosch, our girl
and.
And I went to the same girl,kendra downtown smooth med spa

(28:49):
shower girl.
And I went there up until Imoved, which is like five years,
but like I would never havetold my parents that I did that.
And then, like I think maybewhen I was like 20 or something,
it was like they had comearound and been so accepting
that I was like dad, do you wantto go with me?
He didn't, but like he was, hestill.
Like mom will make jokes aboutit and it tickles her so much

(29:15):
Because actually, like got tosay that it wasn't met with.
Like why the hell are you doing?
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, so from butt hair totoenails.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
I've grown.
What is it that you?
What is it about?
Like being visibly gay?
You know like wearing shortshorts or short shorts and boots
in a um boots and a hat.
You know like a cowboy hat orwhatever in the south.
I don't know what you'rewearing but with your nails
painted.
You know that makes people feelthreatened and yell faggot out

(29:45):
of their car and I think,because they're suppressed,
throw slurpees on you orwhatever like what is that?

Speaker 1 (29:51):
I think because they're suppressed.
There's parts of them that theywant to explore and I think in
the south it's evil.
Even as simple as like if a manwants to become a chef or cook,
or I even remember like mengoing to nursing school, like
boys didn't do that and so like,if these things that they
naturally are wanting to explorecan't they can, they feel like
they can't do, then they're, ofcourse they're going to be

(30:12):
pissed or upset that someone'sout there expressing themselves
because they don't feel likethey have that luxury.
It doesn't normalize it.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
They're jealous.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
But I think that's where that stems from.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
But like, what's stopping them from doing it?
Whatever it is?
Yeah, like the South being achef, or yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
But I mean it's gotten a lot better.
Like now you actually have likeloads of boys that go into
nursing school and like so it'sgotten better.
But it's just something thatwas it like.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
It's like you're taught I was forced to become a
construction worker because thatwas my only option, and so I'm
like furious that this personcan go be a dancer or a nurse or
, you know, take on any femininerole that maybe I didn't have
the opportunity to.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
Similar to cultures who are like, no, you're going
to college, You're going to be adoctor.
And like, they've alreadydecided for their child and
they're like, and they're liketheir child doesn't even think
that they can step outside ofthat box, and so like it's.
So they can't evenconceptualize that someone else
is standing outside of a boxthat they want them to be in.
So it's like your brain can'tconceptualize it, so anything it

(31:16):
can't understand hate most ofthe time.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
Okay, I have an interesting question for you
because I feel like that's sucha good answer, go get it.
I feel like you might have adifferent answer than me.
Is do you think that if youwere to go back home with a
partner, if it would be harderor easier on you as a gay person
to be you?
know, holding hands with someoneyou know or you know expressing

(31:42):
your affection for someone aslike a gay person in your
hometown.
Do you think that's harder oreasier?
Because you know one side youhave like the support of someone
that you think might stand upfor you if you do get harassed
or whatever.
But at the on the other side itcould be like harder because
you the visibility of it all youknow is more in people's face

(32:06):
well, I have a statement leadingup to that, or question.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
Maybe that involves that I think being a gay man
period is easier to go home whenit comes to relationships in a
lot of ways.
Well, that sounds weird, butlike as far as like, if a
straight woman or a straight mangoes home, everyone's always
asking when you're gonna getmarried, would you have a baby?
Well, all these things, the gayman especially my family
questions ask.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
They're just like I don't get asked that Do you have
a surrogate picked out?

Speaker 1 (32:32):
When are you settling down?
When are you getting?
Like?
I don't get asked that, so likeI feel like that's an
interesting, just difference.
Which and then your question, Ithink bringing a partner home,
I'd show more affection, or itwould be easier.
Cause if I didn't bring apartner home, like if I was like

(32:52):
seeing someone in Tennessee andlike as affectionate, like
going on a date or something oris that what you're comparing?
Okay?
Cause I probably wouldn't do PDAwith a person that didn't mean
a lot to me, cause I don't doPDA a lot, I don't like it, and
so like, if it's my partner,then I don't like it, and so
like, if it's my partner, then Idon't give a shit, let's kiss
right here in front of thischapel, I don't care, um, but I

(33:15):
I think I get protective of apartner when I do bring them
home, cause I'm like if there ishate, I will be the voice to
stand up and say something, so Idon't necessarily need the
support from them.
I almost feel like I'm on highalert and like let me shield
them or protect them, because Istill, in my head, feel deep
down and maybe it's just becausemost of my childhood that

(33:36):
there's still so much ignorancein the South, and there is, and
there's everywhere there'signorance, but I go on super
high alert.
If someone I love is there, oreven if it's a friend that's gay
or is doing something, I willstand up for them.
So I don't think I necessarilyneed the support from a partner,
but does that kind of aroundabout answer?

Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, I think that you kind of spoke to the fact
that maybe it's a little bitharder to bring your partner
home because you feel like youhave to be hypervigilant to make
sure that they are in a safespace.
But I was also kind of asking,like, do you feel like your

(34:18):
identity as you've you know, asyou've grown to know, it is
easier to maintain back homewhen you're there with a partner
?
Oh, a thousand percent?
Uh-huh, I think so Because Ifeel like for some people maybe
it's not that case.
You know, like you're goingback to a small town and you're

(34:40):
bringing a partner, and maybethat's more difficult.
Well, I've only ever done thatwith one partner that wasn't
from the South, or maybe youhave to be like really more like
hetero, more heteronormativeabout your relationship, or like
less affectionate than younormally would be, or maybe like
just not not holding true toyour you know identity.
Okay, my psychology term of theday is um social psychology.

(35:04):
It's like the do you know whatthis is?
Yes, okay actually, it reallyintrigues me yeah, they have
social psychologists atworkplaces right Like factories
and stuff.
That's an industrial ororganizational psychologist.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
That's what I meant.
He's saying.
Do you know what that means?
Yeah, it's this, Absolutely not.
That is not.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
There are some similarities, but social
psychology is basically thestudy of like, how our social,
social psychology is basicallythe study of like how our social
, environmental factorsinfluence our behavior and
personality, and basicallythere's all of this research
that shows that our psycho, ourbrain psychology, adapts and we

(35:44):
act differently in differentsocial situations.
So when you're in a group full,say, you're in like a room and
you're full of it's full ofwomen and you're a man, you
immediately identify yourself asa man first.
And then maybe you like go into, like race or sexuality and

(36:06):
other things, but say you're ina room full of black men and
you're a man but you're a whiteman, then the first thing you
identify would be that you'rewhite.
Because we make thesecomparisons, whereas in the
first scenario you stand outbecause you're a man and then in

(36:28):
the second scenario you standout because you're white.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
Wait, I mean, it makes so much sense.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
but that's wild because it's accurate yeah, so
like our, our perceptions ofourselves, they change based off
of the environment that we putourselves in and the people we
surround ourselves with wait.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
I mean that makes sense.
On like, even like, if you'reat a job that you don't
necessarily care for, that youreally love, your viewpoint of
yourself differs.
And then also just if you'rearound in an environment of good
friends where you feel like youcan't be yourself.
That makes so much sense.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
Right.
So I feel like that all kind ofties back to taking yourself
you know comfortable homeenvironment that you've built to
become you know who you are,and then taking all that away
and putting yourself in a newenvironment, maybe in a place
that's less comfortable, you itmay, you know, kind of alter

(37:22):
your, your thoughts about whoyou are, um.
But there's this other studythat I wanted to bring up.
That's about conformity andwhat a psychologist did was they
put participants into a roomand there's this I don't really
want to get into like thedetails of it, but basically, if

(37:42):
you um put a little like laserpointer dot against a wall and
you ask people to look at it, itkind of looks like it's moving
like back and forth just becauseof the way that our eyes work,
and but in reality it doesn't.
It's just a laser pointeragainst the wall.

(38:03):
So they asked participants tolook at this dot and they asked
them to estimate how far it'smoved to like one side or the
other.
And in some of the studies theyhad like plants in the room and
they would raise their hand andthey say, oh, it moved like
five centimeters.
And when those like numbers gotbigger and bigger.

(38:26):
The people who were giving real, know, real answers of their
estimates would be closer towhat the plant had suggested
that the movement was with thelight.
So basically, like everyone'sopinion is influenced by
everyone else's opinions aroundthem, even when you're looking

(38:48):
at something as innocuous as alaser pointer on a wall that's
not moving at all but gives theillusion that it is moving.
And when the plant didn't saythat it moved at all, the
estimates across the board weremuch smaller.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Well, okay, so think of it in like a real life
example, although that was reallife.
Let's say you, you're trying anew outfit and you don't really
know if you like it, and thenone person compliments you.
You feel like you're like oh mygod, I'm hot but, if no one,
even like, says anything, you'relike it's ugly, everyone hates
it, and so, although you feltphenomenal when you left the

(39:29):
house, it's very similar to likeone person as a plant can have
an opinion, or like if they saythat everyone else is like.
Oh my God actually.
Yeah, I meant to tell you likethat does look great.
So, that's like a verysimplified version.
Absolutely.
I'm so good with thesemetaphors.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
So anyway, that's social psychology for you.
Wait, okay.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
I always forget like that type of like self-help
comparison that you did.
It helps understand emotions,helps me understand emotion so
much better and like I feel likecause I'll get in a spiral
about like social anxiety andstuff like that, but like
whenever you explain that I'mlike, it almost just like takes

(40:09):
it down to like it's such asimple.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
It becomes like, like , just you know science.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
Yeah, then you're like.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
You're like black and white answers to things right
you don't have to spiral aboutit, because people you know
spend their entire careerstudying it.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
It's I know, but it's like it's wild to think like
whenever you simplify it likethat, you're like oh, it is
science.
Like a plus b equals c.
The math, the equation's alwaysdoing, it's always going to
work out that way yeah, that'swild, isn't it?
Yeah I love it when you talkpsychology to me, but now what
about industrial?

Speaker 2 (40:39):
no, we can talk about that at a different point in
time, but I would like to moveon to a segment that we're going
to call what's the gayest cityin america and I have some
thoughts, and you know, beinggrowing up close to san
francisco, obviously that holdsum a place in my heart.
But there's lots of gay citiesout there, seattle being one of

(41:00):
them, and is constantly likerated as one of the gayest
cities in america.
Um, and la.
I went to college in LA, sothey, I think, have the most
number of gays, maybe not likedensity wise, but it's, you know
, a massive city, um.
So I want to know what youthink is maybe the gayest city

(41:21):
in America.
Is it Knoxville?

Speaker 1 (41:22):
I, I, I have interesting thoughts, kyle,
thank you for proposing thequestion because I think like it
depends on what you interpretas the gay, because, like San
Fran because, like San Franhistory wise, I've actually
never been, but like I'm justlike you know that's where a lot
of gays started to cohabitateand move there and it was become

(41:45):
like one of the first safeplaces for gay people to be
themselves.
So, like in my brain, like thatis the gayest, like logically.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
Like it's been around for a really long time as like
a big gay sanctuary.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
Yeah, and so logically, that's my answer.
But I kind of want to say Texas, probably like Austin or Dallas
.
I feel like that could be like,like sexually gay.
What does that mean Sexuallygay?
Like, I feel like that could besexually gay.
What does that mean sexuallygay?
I don't know.
Maybe it's just because I'mlike, oh low-key, I do DL guys

(42:18):
and I'm like that's the sexiestplace because I have the most DL
guys, which I just calledmyself out.
But then where is Folsom?

Speaker 2 (42:26):
Where the most internalized homophobia is.
That's the gayest city.
That's the gayest city.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
That's the hottest city there was like Folsom and
then like Market Days and stuffLike Chicago's pretty gay.
That's pretty gay, but it'salmost like I think it's what
the city kind of environment isallowing Like to what expansion
of gayness can people be Likethey would never do Market Days
or Folsom Street Fair inKnoxville?
I'll tell you that.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
Nowhere in Tennessee.
I feel like the whole brand ofSan Francisco as a city is gay,
gay sex.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
Yeah, I mean yeah, Folsom.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
Street, fair Door, alley, they like celebrate
public nudity, you know, and sexpositivity and I don't know.
I just feel like their wholebrand is rainbow everything.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
Yeah, but New York also has a lot of gays.
Never been there either.
Dc's growing in the gays, ohyeah.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
We've got a lot of gay bars.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
Nashville's growing in the gays Really yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Wow, I would say branding-wise.
New York, we have our theatergays.
La, we have our like, uh,pretty insta baddies, insta
baddies.
Yep um san francisco, we haveour sex positive gays and I was
gonna say like and lesbians 50plus age oh yeah, a little bit

(43:47):
older, maybe palm, palm Springs,so Dallas.
We have our internalizedhomophobia gays Headless torso.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
Okay, yeah, muscles, backwoods Country will fuck you
over Bel-hay, bel-hay, youraccent came out Miami we have
our Latin gays our fashion gays,our Botox Fist pumping gays,
our fashion gays, our Botoxcocaine.
Miami could be one of.
The Key West is also pretty gay.
It's actually very gay.

(44:17):
They have nude bar there.
There's not that many what typeof gay is in that.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
Pacific Northwest.
We haven't even gotten there.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
That's the grand finale of the question.
I'm thinking Ohio, illinois thegrand finale of the question.
But like I'm thinking Ohio,illinois, michigan, like what
type of gays?

Speaker 3 (44:34):
are those.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
I feel like Chicago's like meat and potato, gay, Okay
, Like bulky, Like they'rethicker, thick, mm yeah.
Oh.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
God, you're going to make me blush again.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
I'm in with the thought of.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
It's sporty, it's like sporty gay.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
Yeah, but they're like a little bit more bigger
built.

Speaker 3 (44:51):
Yeah, it's not like Meat and potatoes, Not like.

Speaker 1 (44:54):
oh, I have a 26-inch waist, full-ass abs, massive
pecs.
It's like they have those, butit's not like on a tiny, wincy,
teensy little waist Right alittle waist Right, like they
are in LA.
La is like meat and potatoes,but on a tiny waist.
What about Hawaii gays?
I don't think that's a thing.
Guam gays, puerto Rico?

(45:16):
What about Canadian gays?
I feel like they're kind oflike LA gays.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
You can't just say all Canada.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
That's fair, okay, at least above uscouver.
Vancouver gays are just thenice, nice gays, but they look
pretty.
They also have nice bodies, butit's not like but pale.
It's not like this ego there is, but not like as bad as I think
.
Like people think like youcan't even speak to them.
They're like oh my god hi yeah,they're like, they're the nice
insta baddies there's, they'rethe insta ratties.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
What, oh rad, oh my gosh okay, vancouver's, it's the
ratties.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
Okay, what about seattle?

Speaker 2 (45:56):
crunchy, crunchy, granola gays yeah I was gonna
say it's distant.
The gays no, I'd say the gayshere are more like celebrating
counterculture, like drag gays,like creative gays.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
Smart gays because we have the antisocial gays,
because we have the Microsoft,the Amazon, the Google.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
Yeah, I just called all of those gays antisocial
Tech gays.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
Oh, that's a good description.
Well, san Fran could also bethat, right, yeah, but here tech
gays are, because I feel likeeveryone works in tech.
Are there a project manager?
What the fuck are you?

Speaker 2 (46:38):
managing.
Now that we've generalized allgays on the planet, don't come
for us.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
Tell us your opinion of these gays?
Read us Papel.
We just think it's funny.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Yeah, and it's like I love pitting people in a box.
It's so weird.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
Honestly, stereotypes are so fun.
Okay, let's get into victoryadvice, oh, but oh my God, what
do I?
Even I'll do this, since it'swholesome, but I also we need
told some.
But I also we need to have alittle section of just sharing
some unwell details of somethingelse.
So maybe it's victor adviceunwell, because I need to share
some more stories from this trip.

(47:13):
It was quite wild, my victoryis.
So, going home, using themindset that we talked about
earlier of people's opinionmattering more or less, I
intentionally, because usuallywhen I go home it's so fucking
stressful I'm like trying to doall these activities, see all
the these people, and it'salways an activity plus the
sleep deprivation.

(47:34):
It's just horrible.
And then there's so many timesthat I kept like moving
mountains or like then if afriend like canceled on me and I
like I'm like seeing fivedifferent people in a day and
I'm like I moved mountains.
There we go again mountain, sthelen, felon, um moved mountains
to like try to see you, like Ineed you to show up for me, and
I feel like I was constantlygetting disappointed.

(47:54):
But they have their own lifeand I'm visiting their life and
I kept like, oh my god, theydon't want to see me, they don't
like care or whatever which isdumb depends on the scenario,
but this like, especiallybecause I usually stay with
friends I stayed with my sisterthe whole week except for one
night because I was busy andjust like normal interactions,

(48:15):
like just sitting there aroundthe couch, like when they come
home, and hearing about theirday, and like my sister randomly
called in on Monday and she waslike do you want to go to the
grocery?

Speaker 3 (48:25):
And like called in on Monday and she was, like do you
want to go to the?

Speaker 1 (48:27):
grocery and like we went to the grocery store the
Piggly Wiggly When's the lasttime you like went, like not
like to grab somebody, and grabsomebody like full on grocery
shopping with your mom, likeit's?
That's the moments and it mademe just realize like what I want
to start putting emphasis on,even here, is less like activity
.
Yeah, that's fun, but like justhaving like kind of like our
relationship around the housesimilar to that so that's my
victory.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
Is you want to go grocery shopping with me?

Speaker 1 (48:49):
more absolutely not actually that sounds horrible.
Yeah, because you're just gonnabe everything I put in the
fucking buggy more velveta craftwhatever but my yeah, my
victory is that I spent moretime with family and like
experience their life and notjust try to recreate the fun

(49:10):
things that we did, like goingin and only seeing them twice
when we go to Chili's, but likeI got to go to her birthday
party.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
I like forming new memories with people that you
love and want to spend time with, as opposed to trying to
recreate memories that you'vehad with them in the past.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
That's going to make me cry.
Yeah, because especially seeingmy sister be a mom, like her
gentleness and her compassionand how she juggles all of these
things, and I'm like I knew youdid all these things, but like,
seeing it in action and likeit's wild and like and the best
way to describe it is I wasthere experiencing their wild
and like and the best way todescribe it is I was there
experiencing their life andthat's my victory Cause instead

(49:50):
of trying to bring your life andto them or like hey, do you
want to go to Chili's?
And that's like what we alwaysdid.
Or like just stopping by Cause.
Then I'm like, well, what elsedo we fucking talk about?
You know, like, and it justreally, really meant a lot to me
, and so that's my victory, thatI'm glad that I woke up and
decided to actually prioritizethem.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
Mine is that I went ice skating.
And that was not even in yourhometown.
No Went to the Kraken Ice Arena, which is where I tried to go
at 6am last week, and that wasan epic fail.
So I went back this past fridayand just went by myself and I

(50:31):
put in my headphones, listenedto some tate mccray and I felt
like a bad sports car.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
Uh-huh, baby, you're a sports car on ice vroom, vroom
, vroom, skirt skirt wait, Ilove this and like, sometimes I
wish we wouldn't talk aboutthings before this, because I
would have loved, in real time,to be like please tell me your
sequence, please tell me yourchoreo.
Did you do a triple axel?
Uh-huh, no, what about a quad?

Speaker 2 (51:00):
A triple salchow.
Can't do a triple axel, but Ican do a quad.
Yeah, can you do a triple sowcow.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
Yeah, can you skate?
What'd you call me?
A triple sow cow, a cowSpeaking of triple, triple
dipper?

Speaker 2 (51:12):
Do you know that cows have three stomachs?
Talking about triple sow cowsyeah, that's cool yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
But to tie into the rest of my victory.
That's so cool To tie into therest of my victory visit.
I went to Texas Roadhouse and Igot a wine glass.
The waitress was so chill and Iwas like, hi, can I take this?
And because it has their logoon it and it's going in my
collection next to my Chili'sones.
That's a huge win.
I went to Old Navy, got so manycute clothes A lot of macrame,

(51:41):
lots of macrame.
Or what's it called crochetedtops.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
Yeah, yeah, it's cute , and all women.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
Macrame is like wall it is, but I was gonna let you
have it, and they're thick ornot, but um, oh, and I finally
practiced doing a tattoo yes,you did on fake skin and I made
a chili's pepper and it turnedout like art, like fart, like
already fart, yeah well, itwasn't really that good.

Speaker 3 (52:06):
Yeah Well, and then I went to Chili's, and then I
convinced the girl to give methe tissue paper, like clean
ones, that they put in thebottom of the chips and I'm
going to like bedazzle it orframe it, or I don't know like
wrap something in it.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
Yeah, put wallpaper.
Great idea those are my otherlike slow, tagged in victories
and you shared yours.
Do you want me to share myadvice?
Go Okay.
Preface, preface, preface,preface.
Remember I think it was lastpod that I was like I haven't
had sex with anyone thiscalendar year.
Well, it's increased by twoparenthesis three, because one

(52:41):
of them was a repeat and withinseven days, and so I slept with
someone here.
Don't even mention that,because I know he listens.
I'm not even going to talkabout the one from here.
But then two of them were backhome in Knoxville, tennessee,
and I was texting you about this.

(53:02):
Were they homophobic?
No, no, no.
Actually, one of them Sexpositive, and I know that he's
going to listen to this.
He, uh, is british I believe hehas an accent, but he's a
scientist and we grabbed drinksand I learned some new things.
And it was what'd you learn?
that the back of my kneecaps aresensitive, okay, okay like it

(53:25):
still feels weird to share somesome sex things on here which I
don't know why.
I literally talked about goingto austin and like my hookup was
asleep and I was lookingthrough his window anyway, um,
he just like I don't know he'sthe first time.
I was kind of like a bottomthat like I feel like I got most
of the attention and it wasfabulous, you didn't have to do
any work.
Most of the attention and itwas fabulous you didn't have to

(53:46):
do any work Correct.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
That's what I'm hearing.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
Wait, I am a pillar princess probably no, actually
depends on the vibe.
I match the vibe.

Speaker 3 (53:55):
No I don't.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
So that was one of them.
My vices gets where it getssticky.
So then the repeat that I hadsex with.
I slept with him when I waslike 18.
It was good and I texted youand David and I was like I just
had lasagna, no pizza here.

Speaker 3 (54:19):
Remember to flash back to the last episode.
Lasagna is like really good.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
And it's like, wow, you feel good after yeah.
And like pizza is just likeyeah, it was okay.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
And I texted you know I'm full but not as satisfied
yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
And my stomach kind of hurts a little bit Like it's
weird.
Yeah, but I texted John.
I was like I just had lasagna,who's John?
I texted y'all, oh y'all, ohwow, I just had lasagna and it
was great.
Yeah, and I'll give you somedetails.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
This is Mount Everest .

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Yeah, oh my God, we talked about him before.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
His penis was so big that you had to scale Mount
Everest to get on top of it.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
Ice pick and everything.
Yeah, again didn't get on topof it Because again I laid the.
But that's just two smallexamples because they were
twirling me about anyway, so whyis that a vice?
Because I'm getting there, kyle.

Speaker 3 (55:10):
I'm getting there.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
I text y'all, I'm like this is phenomenal.
And then I go to watch asoftball game that night and I
was telling my friend there andhe was like wait, I know that
person.
And I was like oh cool me beingcocky.
And be like oh cool Me beingcocky.
I'm like they probably neverslept together.
Because I pull, but they have Ithink, and then he proceeds to
pull up his just arrested photo.

(55:34):
This man is a convicted felon,which is fine.
People can be a felon and Idon't judge him for it.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
But this was agorist.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
It was Mount St Felon , mount St Felon that I hiked
because he was charged withaggravated statutory rape, which
I looked up is between the agesof 13, but less than 18.
You really do have a type.
What the fuck?
It happened afterwards, but atleast the first time I slept
with him, cause it happened in2017.

(56:05):
I slept with him in 2016.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
Yeah, but you shared on the podcast that your first
boyfriend, statutory, raped youbecause he was 18 and you're 16,
cannot say like I didn't.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
You said that on the podcast you're wording.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
I'm just saying you're worrying.
I'm just saying that he was you.
Are you like six?

Speaker 1 (56:19):
eight, I'm not calling that person like how you
cannot put that in there.
I'm not calling my firstboyfriend a rapist Because he
didn't do it.
He didn't do it.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
It was consensual, yeah, but still.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
I know.
So, yeah, I looked it up.
Maybe the laws are differentthere, I don't know, but that
makes me feel icky.
But let me just show you.
But the laws are not different,because this man has been
arrested and convicted.
Let me remind you of MountEverest, of having Mount St
Felon, yeah, but then heproceeds to show me his mugshot.

(56:51):
Yes, I took photos of it.
Oh, why is he smiling?
Well, because he's like pop off.
Oh, my god.
Oh, I was really proud of it,but that's my vice.
I had lasagna that was made.
It's like having lasagna thatwas made with gluten-free
noodles, where it doesn't fuckyou over until you're pooping
out the garbanzo bean pastawhere it's so good You're like

(57:14):
oh my God, this tastes so great.
Then it gives you a bellyachelater.
That's what my Mount St Felonexperience was and that's my
vice.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
Would you change anything about it?

Speaker 1 (57:24):
No, you wouldn't Maybe change that.
He's not a felon.
He didn't rape someone, but itwas consensual with me.
God, I sound like a fuckingpsychopath sometimes.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
I love it.
I want your advice to top mine.
Speaking of topping, Okay, Ihad something else, but actually
I have two, because we're gonnado vice and unwell, um, my vice

(57:56):
is that?
Um, okay, so when I went backhome, I flew in on a wednesday
and I have this like a hookupbuddy that uh it's called a
friends with benefit.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
Yeah, friends, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
Okay, john, we're not really friends with benefits
though, because you're notreally friends.
He lives in San Francisco and Ilive here, and so when you see
each other, do you always havesex?
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
That's a friend with benefits.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
I think of a friend with benefits, as, like your
friends and you hang out, butyou also have sex, so this is
your fuck buddy, yeah In adifferent zip code.
Yeah, okay, yeah, um sowhenever he comes to Seattle, we
hook up.
Whenever I go to San Francisco,we hook up.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
How many years has that been going on?

Speaker 2 (58:39):
I mean, it's only happened like a handful of times
, but over the last year, yeah,but over the last year, yeah,
over the last year.
I can't wait to see how thisflourishes, okay.
So my advice is that I flew in.
I got in.
I was supposed to get in atlike 10 pm, so I was like, okay,
I'll be to your house by like1030.

(58:59):
But my flight was delayed forlike a half hour and then I had
to get a rental car and yada,yada, yada, the cute green one,
the Hyundai Kona in neon green.
It was so great.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
It's like nail polish .
I was like I cannot lose thiscar in a parking lot because
it's so fluorescent and youloved it.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
I did, yeah, but I texted him that I was being
delayed and I texted him when Iland.
And when I landed he respondedwith there's like oh wow, you're
like really late.
There's a really nice holidayinn by the airport.
I was like you don't have tosay it like that, though that's

(59:37):
like not even like really thatfunny, especially after, like
I've been through the ringertoday and like I'm already
exhausted, but you're not even afriends, so he's allowed to say
whatever, I guess.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
Yeah, god, not me playing the devil's advocate.
Yeah, I did fuck her a felon,so.

Speaker 3 (59:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:52):
So throw stones in glass houses don't you.
I was just annoyed,disappointed, I guess.
And then I get a text messagefrom him as I'm kind of pulling
up To his house.
It says like I'm really tired,like um don't, but also like

(01:00:12):
really horny, but it might justlike be cuddles tonight, or
something like that.
So then, so you went to hishouse so I went, so I did no,
yeah yeah, I went to his housebecause I think he was just
joking and I went to his houseand I think he was just joking
and I went to his house andcrawled into bed with him and we
cuddled and I just couldn'ttell if he wanted to hook up or

(01:00:36):
not.
But he's the top in thissituation, so I feel like it's
your job to make the move.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
Don't put it no.
You touch what you want,exactly With consent.
I know I know I could have if Iwanted to make the move.

Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
Don't put it don't put no, you touch what you want
exactly with consent.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Uh huh, I know, I know I could have if I wanted to
, but I was just like kind of soput off by the whole yeah, go
stay at the holiday inn and oh,I'm really tired, but like it
doesn't sound like you reallyknow what you want, and so then
I'm not really like into itanymore.
So I spent the night there andthen the next day, um, he like
took a half day at work, and sodid I, and so we went and got

(01:01:09):
like drinks, um kind of in thatlike afternoon at lunch, and I
don't know just like we were notvibing, and so it was just like
disappointing that one, Ididn't get to have sex with him
and two, it it just like wasn'tthe experience that I wanted for
my first day back home.
But you didn't want to get blueballed, yeah, I could see that

(01:01:33):
I never want to, but sometimesit happens it do be.
So that was my vice, and then myunwell of the week is going
back to our cold opening andtalking about the events of last
night.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
So we stopped at the end of the story.
We went to.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
Massive.
We went to Massive, had a fewdrinks leading up to Massive and
I don't know what happened, butwe got up there.
It was Disco Pig Night which isso much fun.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
Pig's dancing on the stage.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
It's like all like 70s, 80s disco music, but it's
no different than what itusually is.
Yes, it is Usually Massive, isjust like that wasn't.
No, were you listening, was it?
No, it was like lyrical disco.

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
I didn't hear any words.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Okay, anyways, it was a blast and I was having so
much fun and we were dancingaround and, just, you know,
causing chaos, and the hottestguys were there and we were both
making out with them.
Yeah Well, I don't know whathappened.
I got overwhelmed by the spiritor something.
But some guy came up to me andlike put his butt in my crotch

(01:02:48):
and started dancing with me andthen turned around and then we
started kissing and the nextthing I know I am flat on the
floor, passed out, and I'm likekyle kyle and I, I like opened
my eyes and there's this hunkyman with his like perfectly
chiseled chest with like theperfect amount of like chest
hair and he's looking at me withthe biggest smile on his face,

(01:03:09):
like picking me up, and he'slike it's all, it's all good,
it's all good.
And did that actually happen?
Or did that just happen to mybrain?

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
no, that happened, but like not as beautifully as
you put it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
Okay, because you can describe you woke up and you're
like you even see me fall likeI just passed out and I don't
know why I turned around and youwere on the ground.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
Yeah, I wasn't like doing a bunch of G or anything.

Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
I just like had a couple drinks and I got kissed
by a boy and I fainted.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
And now you're ready to die because you kissed a boy.
Yeah, my spirit left my body.
He sucked away your spirit.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
Oh my gosh, maybe it was because it was Easter and
I'm Jesus.
You rose four times, I died andI was resurrected.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
Four times, yeah, so.
And you died by being gay.
He is risen, so now you have tolead the straight life.
Anyway, what actually happened?
I go over there and I'm kind oflike freaked out but like also
oddly calm.
You're like did I just pass out?
I was like, yeah, girl, let'sgo.
And you're like, oh, actuallyI'm fine.
So you were fine for severalminutes.

(01:04:11):
You're dancing?
I was, yeah, I gave you water,You're dancing.
And then you were stumbling alittle bit.
I was like, no, let's go overhere Twice before we get over to
the wall.
So you fell again and collapsedlike passed out, and collapsed,
passed out.
But you didn't fall all the waydown because I had my arms
around you.
Third time we finally get overthere to the wall and you're
like, okay, I need to sit down.

(01:04:31):
I go to help you sit down.
You pass out again, slam theback of your head against the
wall.
That's why I was like did yourhead hurt today?
Then, as we're going around togo over there to the steps, you
start doing it again.
But to go over there to thesteps, you start doing it again.
But at that point I had yourarms around me, carrying you
like a little backpack, a sixfoot ten backpack, on this five
foot body and we had to go downtwo flights of steps.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
And the man that you were making out with was helping
.
Oh yeah, he was very helpful,but also kind of like no you're
fine.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
No, you're not fine.
He was like kind.
And then somehow the bouncerthat we already spoke with
outside comes who?

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
told us her whole story about her dad adopting her
.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
Oh my God, Jesse.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
He was a drug addict or something.
What does this happen to us,Zach?

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
Oh yeah.
And so then somehow now she'smagically appeared on the third
floor and it's like the sweetest, most gentle.
It's like you're good, baby,I'm.
So she's like don't apologize,it's never a bad thing to be
having fun, just so kind.
And then I'm digging yourpockets looking for the coat
check number, and then you'reoutside drinking water.
I get an Uber back home and weget inside and you're like I'm

(01:05:44):
like okay, we're going to getyou a bed.
You're like I just bought newsheets.
I was like cool, you're gonnalove them.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
It's like I'm not getting in bed in my new sheets
After passing out on the floorat Massive and I'm covered in
gross shit and sweat.

Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
That was pretty stupid and you were like, what
am I gonna do?
And I was like, well, you cantake a bath.
You're, you can take a bath,you're like I can't.
Which is I was like, okay, I'llhelp you, which I didn't do
anything.
You got in there and I youclosed the door behind you and
then I sat on the cat on yourbed watching youtube videos and
I was like I kept saying like,oh, are you good?
You got out, you had your towelon, you got clothes on, you

(01:06:17):
went to bed.
Did you see my wiener?
I did.
Have you been thinking aboutthat all day?
yeah yeah it's not bad, butagain, like it's hard, like I
can't conceptualize.
You're just like my patient atthat point I was taking care of
you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Okay, mr thomas, get out of the shower, you sure I do
remember seeing your face likeum, when I kind of came to out
of after fainting whichever time, I don't, I don't but I
remember being like, oh, thankGod, caleb's a nurse, he's going
to take such good care of me.
If he can take care of Zach,that's passed out in a bush,
then he can take care of me.
Well, I'm glad that that gaveyou some peace?

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
Yeah, because there was just this weird confidence.
I was like, oh, he's going toan antihistamine.
Whenever you did that, I waslike Kyle wouldn't cause drama
on me like this.
Yeah, he'll get it together.
Yeah, four times later you gotit together because you and I
talked nonstop on the way home.
No, you talked at me.

Speaker 3 (01:07:15):
Yes, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
And I was like don't you agree?

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
Yeah, oh, my God, so was From passing out to climbing
Mount St Fallon.
Well, thanks for listening tothis week's episode of
Unfamously Unwell.
We want to hear from you andabout your struggles and
triumphs of traveling home.

Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
I want everyone to call their mom or their dad or
whatever loved one that they'reclosest with, because I think
you should do it more too.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
Yeah, I feel like that's a good um challenge
challenge.
Yeah, a wellness challenge islike how does your you know life
change, or how does yourperspective change when you
reach out more to the peoplethat you care about most,
whether that's you know, yourfamily or your chosen family?

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
where can they find us, kyle?
Okay, caleb, they can find usat unfamously Unwell, on all
social media.
Well, one social media platform, and that's Instagram.
You can contact us via directmessage there, or you can get a
little tippity-tap-tap on youremail and send us an email at
unfamouslyunwell at gmailcom.
Please write in and talk to us.

(01:08:23):
We just have each other to onlyspeak with, and my co-host is
fainted 40% of the time.

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
Sometimes I have to pretend to faint just to get him
to shut up.
So I'd rather talk to you guys.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
This is my sign out.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
Do it better.
Do it better.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
Well, in two weeks we'll be back with another fun,
interesting topic and maybe I'llchallenge myself to host that
one, kyle Mentally.
Let's see where I'm going to beand also share any fun World
Pride DC themed outfits with us,because we're going in June and
we're kind of contemplating ifyou have any fun cuntismo
outfits.

(01:08:59):
Cuntissimo, send them our way,but until next episode we wish
you well, Bye bitches.

Speaker 2 (01:09:07):
Thanks for listening to another episode of Unfamously
Unwell, the unrated podcasthosted by your two favorite
Seattle homosexuals on a journeyto higher health.
Listen each week as we deepdive into a new topic and give
you all the dirty details of oursuccesses and failures along
the way.

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
You can send us your questions, feedback or share
your own victory advice bywriting to unfamouslyunwell at
gmailcom or by clicking the linkat the bottom of the
description to shoot us a text.
We'd love to hear from you andshare your stories on the pod.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
We'll see you back here next week for another
unhinged episode of UnfamouslyUnwell, unrated.