Why can’t we smell sweetness in sparkling wine? How much of what we “taste” in wine is influenced by its appearance and our expectations? What makes copper both a savior and a threat to viticulture?
In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Sunny Hodge, author of the terrific new book, The Cynic's Guide to Wine.
You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks
Giveaway
Two of you are going to win a copy of Sunny Hodge’s terrific new book, The Cynic's Guide to Wine. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at natalie@nataliemaclean.com and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!
Highlights
Why is it important to look beyond wine characteristics and consider?
How does The Cynic's Guide to Wine aim to challenge the way we talk about wine?
Can fossilized oysters in vineyard soil really impart marine characteristics on the wine?
Why should food and wine lovers know the story of Fitz Haber?
What makes copper both a savior and a threat to viticulture?
Why should we move away from the focus on wine flavours and instead use descriptors of what it truly offers?
Where does the buttery flavour in wine come from?
How does cork taint affect wine as well as our sense of smell and perception?
Why do vines grown in cooler temperatures have more black pepper notes?
How much of what we “taste” in wine is influenced by its appearance and our expectations?
Why can’t we smell sweetness in wine?
Could sniffing slower change which aromas you detect in a wine?
Why are humans more sensitive to bitter tastes versus sweet?
How does adding ice to whiskey open up its aromas?
Key Takeaways
The little CO₂ bubbles in sparkling wine dissolve in your saliva and form a physical barrier between certain molecules hitting your tongue and your ability to taste certain things. Sweetness, is the first thing that’ll get blocked out. So, if you have a sparkling wine that has some sweetness, as your saliva builds up with bubbles, you won’t perceive it.
We in wine extrapolate a little bit and think, “It's a white wine,” so I may psychosomatically associate it with white peppery things, rather than a red wine, which might be black pepper. It’s actually the same sesquiterpene, called rotundone. We just trick ourselves into perceiving it one way rather than the other. This happens a lot in wine.
Copper is naturally antimicrobial and antifungal, which is why we use it in plumbing, hospitals, and as touchpads on doors. Fungal pests like downy and powdery mildew, which affect vines. We spray vines with copper base concoctions to prevent that fungus building up, which will destroy our harvests. But it's not just the heavy metal, but it when it rains, it'll hit your soils and affect earthworms and all of the things that we know to be really good for the soils, naturally. We stop our soil's ability to just look after itself. We haven't found a unified way to overcome downy and powdery mildew without the use of copper.
About Sunny Hodge
Sunny Hodge is the sole founder of Diogenes the Dog and aspen & meursault; two multi award-winning wine bars associated with challenging the status quo of wine. He is in the process of developing a wine qualification, The Science of Wine Course.
His book “The Cynic’s Guide to Wine” delves into the science behind wine from soil upwards into our perception of taste and flavour to dispel wine myths using science. He is also a member of the Circle of Wine Writers.
He is an International wine judge for IWSC awards, was recently shortlisted for the LWF Buyers Awards 2025 for both ‘On-Trade Multiple Venue Wine Buyer’ and ‘Sustainable Wine Buyer of the Year’.
Hodge is also a commentator and wine writer for the likes of Waitrose Food Magazine, Evening Standard, The Times, The Guardian, Food FM and Monocle Radio and ITV’s Love Your Weekend.
To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/351.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.