May 13, 2024 • 29 mins
Carin Gilfry, founder of Voice Actors of New York City and co-founder of the National Association of Voice Actors, discusses the Vocation and eVocation conferences, whether Voices is listening to voice actors, the impact of AI on the voiceover industry, and the work of NAVA in advocating for voice actors.
She points out the need for legislation to protect voice actors' biometric data and right of publicity, and highlights the importance of authentic representation and casting practices.
Carin also shares her passion for voice acting and her desire to explore more opportunities in video games and animation.
Takeaways:
Vocation and eVocation conferences provide voice actors with valuable information on running their businesses and learning from industry experts.
The voiceover industry needs legislation to protect voice actors' biometric data and right of publicity.
Authentic representation and casting practices are important for creating diverse and inclusive voiceover projects.
Voice actors have limitless potential and can continue to grow and explore new opportunities in the industry.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
My guest today is one of two people that Ihave said if there's ever a Nobel Peace
Prize for voiceover, this lady should beeligible for it.
She is the founder of Voice Actors of NewYork City.
She is a co -founder of the NationalAssociation of Voice Actors.
She is a co -creator of vocation andevocation, and she just creates and gets
(00:23):
after it.
And by the way, an illustrious career as avoice actor herself.
Please welcome my dear friend,
Karn Gilfreed to the VOPro Podcast.
God, it's good to see you.
Aw, it's so good to see you, Paul.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
First thing I asked you off mic when wefirst got together a few minutes ago was,
are you recovered?
Tell me about vocation.
(00:43):
How was it?
Because everything I've read, seen, andheard, people are losing their minds over
this thing.
It was so much fun.
It was like one of the most magicalweekends I...
have been a part of in voiceover in mylife.
It was just amazing.
We, we spent four days, three nights inCosta Rica at an all -inclusive resort in
(01:06):
the jungle and on the beach.
Jennifer Hale was our keynote speaker andshe was just incredible.
I mean, the most amazing thing to me abouther besides what she presented, which was
so great, is that she actually sat in theconference almost the entire time taking
notes.
and learning from people the whole time.
(01:27):
And this is, this is a person who is anabsolute legend.
Like she holds the Guinness book of worldrecords for the most female video game
characters, the actor to voice the mostfemale video game characters.
She has done every single genre.
She has been in the industry for a longtime and she was literally sitting in
(01:47):
there just absorbing and learning becausethere's always more to learn.
The world changes, there's always more tolearn.
This is what I keep telling people, right?
People say, well, I'm not sure if I needcoaching.
Even the elite voice actors continue tocoach and learn and try to get 1 % better
(02:08):
every day.
Even the elites.
And that's a great example.
And that was, that was kind of the vibe ofthe whole weekend.
The people who were there are all peoplewho, every single attendee could have
taught a class.
They were so...
It was just a group of really wonderfulprofessional voice actors who were there
to learn from each other as colleagues.
(02:28):
And it was just, it was amazing.
There were some beginners as well.
And I think if you're a beginner, you alsocan get a ton, ton of information out of
it, but it, but it's a very, it was a veryhigh level conference and all of the
attendees there were just amazing.
I don't want to put you on the spot.
And what I want maybe is to correct amisperception on my part.
(02:49):
I know when vocation started out a coupleof years ago, the initial emphasis was on
the business side of voiceovers.
That's still as true as it used to be.
Yeah.
You know, the destination conferences.
Well, basically we don't do anyperformance.
So you'll never have a coach go up andsay, here's a script, have somebody come
up and read a script.
And the reason why is that you can getthat at a lot of different conferences.
(03:12):
Via Atlanta is fantastic.
One Voice is fantastic.
MaVo is great.
And you get that kind of performancecoaching.
But for me and Jamie Muffet, my businesspartner, the reason we created Vocation
was because all of us are small businessowners and none of us took classes in how
to run a small business.
(03:33):
And so we made this conference to be ableto teach people who studied theater in
college or opera singing like me incollege or music or whatever you happen to
go into.
Because most people come into voiceoverfrom other disciplines.
We created this conference.
to give voice actors better information onhow to treat themselves as businesses and
(03:54):
run their businesses better.
Yeah, it's a lot like parenting, right?
You kind of plopped in the middle of itand you really don't have a manual.
Yes, that's absolutely true.
So, but we also thought, you know, abusiness conference could potentially be
kind of dry.
So why not have it in a beautiful locationso that you're sitting focusing on
business during the day and then you getto be in the pool with your friends and
(04:15):
chill and relax in the afternoon.
and hang out with monkeys and go toparties and so that's how it is.
Sounds awful.
Are you okay?
Do you want to lie down?
What's funny is I, for the entireconference, I think I was inside for 90 %
of the time.
Wow.
Well, yeah, you're one of the organizers.
I was running it, yeah.
(04:35):
So I had to be there in the morning atlike seven to make sure the room was set
up and make sure everyone's AV equipmentwas working and then we would have a break
in the evenings.
from four to eight, but I would be stillsetting up for the parties in the
evenings.
I want for folks that aren't, that don'thave their head entirely wrapped around
vocation and evocation, give me athumbnail on how they differ.
(04:59):
So evocation is completely online.
It is, it is the only virtual, onlyconference, that's completely dedicated to
business.
Maybe there's one other one now, but weused to be the only, the first, the first,
online only.
Voice over conferences dedicated tobusiness.
(05:19):
And what's great about that is that it'saccessible to everyone.
It doesn't matter, you know, if you can'tafford to travel to a place like Vio
Atlanta or Costa Rica or Dallas orwhatever, you can just be in your home and
it's extremely interactive.
I really did not realize how much of acommunity you can create online until the
(05:41):
pandemic.
And we've kind of, we've kind of just keptit going.
People who have medical conditions thatprevent them from traveling can come to
this conference.
There are all kinds of amazing speakers.
We even have parties, Zoom parties, andit's so much fun.
Our vocation destination conferences takeplace in a location.
(06:02):
So that's the main difference.
Yeah.
And I think the thing that I love aboutevocation is, and you kind of touched on
this, is that it makes it a little bitmore accessible for folks that are...
just starting out, don't have as much toinvest in their business, et cetera, et
cetera, because to go to Costa Rica ain'tcheap, right?
To go to a destination isn't cheap.
So this makes it keeps the playing field alittle bit more level, which I love.
(06:26):
Absolutely.
Let's get back to the matter, the subjectof the day slash year, right?
Which has been,
This chicken little -esque reaction theindustry has had to AI, to even the
platform's use of AI.
(06:46):
You and I were there this March at the atVio Atlanta and the online casting panel
and got to meet and actually chat with onstage Jay O 'Connor of Voices .com.
It's been what?
A month and a half.
since that conference as we record today.
(07:08):
It's been about maybe six, seven months, Iguess, since Jay took over, correct?
Give me your impressions on a report card,how Jay is stacking up to the promises
that he made on stage at VO Atlanta.
Now, I realize we're only about another 45days down the road from there, but give me
your assessment so far.
Well, one thing I can tell you is that weat NAVA reached out to Jay O 'Connor,
(07:33):
I think maybe the day they announced himas the new CEO.
And he was announced as interim CEO.
He was announced as interim CEO.
That tag still fits as far as I know.
I'm not sure.
I haven't seen an update in print.
I know that his whole team there, who I'vetalked to, they really like him.
(07:54):
And we at Nava have been talking to themand trying to work with them and help them
understand kind of the plight of thevoiceover.
community since he took over as CEO.
And they have been extremely receptive tomeeting with us and hearing more.
The thing about Jay O 'Connor is that hedoes not come from a voiceover background.
(08:17):
And this whole business is so intricate.
There are so many different facets to howthe business operates and how things run
and all the different genres and what isimportant for one is not the same thing
that's important for the other.
And so.
He has really had to dive in and learn anindustry from the ground up.
(08:37):
He came out, he came to their company andyou know, all of their trust pilot ratings
are very high.
A lot of the public facing informationabout how the company is doing is very
favorable.
So when he came to the company, he haddone all of that research and he was like,
great, this is a company that everyoneloves stepping in as CEO.
And it was.
(08:58):
Yeah.
I think it was kind of, I think it waskind of a shock to him and also to the
staff at Voices .com because they, sinceeverything happened with David Ciccarelli
and all of the way that the community washandled under that leadership, Voices .com
has largely not been a part of the samevoiceover community that we are a part of.
(09:21):
So I think, I think everyone over therehas been living in their own kind of
ecosystem.
And they were not as aware of the feelingstoward the company as they could have
been.
And we at Nava have been doing our best tojust try and tell them the story of how
(09:42):
things went south and how things could bebetter.
And to their credit, it seems like theyare really working on it.
They're meeting with new lawyers andthings to update some of their
their language on the website and theyseem to really have a desire to do things.
(10:04):
It's just taking longer than we wouldhope, but it seems like it's still in
process.
So that's a good thing.
I feel like that's, you know, when you'vegot a corporation that big, it takes a
little while to turn the battleship.
And on one hand, it seems like a very easything.
And I've even said in recent weeks, itfeels like some of the stuff that we're
still seeing on voices .com.
(10:26):
Maybe I'd hope by now we wouldn't beseeing as much and it doesn't seem like
that has really decreased so far.
But, you know, I want to take a wait andsee attitude.
The question is how long do we wait?
And I'm not sure what the answer to thatis right now.
Let's get to a little bit back to AI andsome of the hysteria around that.
(10:48):
You guys at NAVA are at the center of thefight.
on behalf of all of us voice actors andeven and maybe you can give me your
impressions of this car and not only areyou guys I feel like fighting for us as
voice actors and artists and even oncamera folks as as actors and artists but
I feel like this AI issue is so pervasive.
(11:11):
All of us, whether we're voice actors,actors or not, we're all vulnerable to
this.
And do you feel that responsibility whenyou're in Washington talking to lawmakers
or you're at a state Capitol?
Do you feel like you're fighting for morethan just our little voiceover bubble?
Absolutely.
And that's one of the things that we aredoing our best to try and explain to all
(11:34):
of the lawmakers that we're talking to.
One of the things we did the first time wewent to DC was we created a synthetic
version of my six year old daughter.
And we went around and played it in theoffices and played her actual recording
and her synthetic voice recording.
And they, you know, I think people kind ofhave an idea of like, AI is getting really
advanced and wow, this is like, but theydon't, you don't realize just how advanced
(11:59):
it is until someone plays a side by sidefor you of this is this.
little six -year -old girl's voice andthis is her synthetic voice.
Imagine what can be done with her and toher by using that synthetic voice.
This is something that needs to belegislated as soon as possible, not just
for us, but for everyone.
And you think too about the securityrisks, like, you know, if you are using a
(12:24):
banking system that allows you to accessyour bank by saying my voice is my
password, someone could create a syntheticversion of your voice and get into your
bank.
right now as it stands.
And that's really scary.
I am a really my checking account.
My personal checking account is with areally large national bank.
I won't mention which one, but everysingle time I sign on to my website, it
(12:48):
wants me to authenticate my voice to useas my password, just as you said.
And I'm thinking, how can you as a majornational brand and bank be asking that in?
in the last 12 to 14 months.
I mean, it just feels tone deaf to me,right?
Yeah.
Because that's so easily exploited.
We had a, we did a roundtable with the FTCrecently, and that was one of the things
(13:13):
that we brought up just as like a consumerprotection thing that this needed to be
taken care of sooner rather than later.
And so far, I don't think, I don't thinkthey've made any official, you know,
statement or...
rules about that kind of thing, but it'sdefinitely on their radar.
Why is it, do you think, and maybe youdisagree, but it seems pretty clear to me
(13:35):
that the US is so far behind, for example,the European Union in passing these
protections.
So I wouldn't necessarily say the US is sofar behind.
The place in which we are extremely farbehind is data protection in general.
GDPR in the EU,
(13:57):
is extremely good and important for thepeople that live there.
For us, I feel like there's so much morethat can be done.
I mean, just having to click a button thatsays I accept cookies or don't accept
cookies.
I mean, cookies sound delicious.
Half the population doesn't know what theyare.
So you just click accept.
(14:18):
Fine, I want cookies, of course.
And people are not really...
You're not wrong.
Is this going to help the site run better?
Like what is this?
You know, like there's, there just isn't alot of education about what it is and why
you should accept it or decline it.
And that's really the only regulationthat's in place right now that we're, that
(14:40):
we're seeing on the public side.
So, you know, data protection isincredibly important.
Your voice print is your data and beyondjust being data, it's your biometric data.
And owning the rights to your ownbiometric data is extremely important.
And that's one of the things that we arereally fighting for.
(15:01):
So that's one side of it.
The other side is kind of right ofpublicity laws are much better in the EU
and UK than they are in the United States.
You can't just take someone's voice,image, name, or likeness and put it up
wherever you want and not pay them.
In the United States,
(15:21):
You kind of can.
There are certain states where your voice,image, name, and likeness are protected a
bit more.
In Illinois and New York and Californiaand Washington and Tennessee now,
Tennessee just passed this new Elvis Act,which kind of helps with right of
(15:42):
publicity.
Beyond that, in the rest of the country,you have pretty much no protection.
So that's one of the things we're tryingto do is to get a federal law passed that
would ensure your right of publicity sothat people can't just take the thing that
you make money from and use it.
And that law has been introduced intoCongress now.
(16:03):
Where are we with that?
We're looking at a couple of differentbills.
The No Fakes Act is one that we arestrongly supporting, and we're going to
DC.
next week actually to go to go talk tosome lawmakers about about supporting that
bill.
And so I hope we make some headway.
(16:23):
You know, luckily, there seems to be a lotof bipartisan support.
There is not a giant group of people whoare saying don't regulate AI.
That's dumb.
Almost everyone is saying.
Yes, this is something that needs to bedone quickly.
And as far as a bipartisan issue, Iunderstand that.
(16:43):
How formidable is the AI slash tech lobbyand how much of an impediment have you
found that to be so far?
We, I mean, I don't feel like we've comeup against them specifically, anyone from
there specifically.
But, you know, in the end, I thinksenators and congresspeople,
(17:04):
They really care about protecting theirown voice likeness, name and image.
Because if you're running for re -electionand somebody can just take your voice and
make you say whatever you want, that'svery bad for you.
It's already been done.
It's very bad.
So putting some protections in place, Ithink, is important.
(17:25):
And I can't imagine that they would goagainst their own self -interest to kind
of like...
I don't know.
When it dawned on me that, you know,nobody really cares, arguably so, for the
plight of the lowly voice actor.
When it dawned on me that the generalpublic was going to be affected and even
(17:45):
more so, lawmakers themselves could bescammed and could be parodied and spoofed
and, you know, deepfakes, right?
When that dawned on me, I thought, well,this legislation is going to move along a
little bit quicker than I originallythought.
Let's go back to voice actors for aminute.
I feel like this is an opportunity.
When I say this, these new laws, these newprotections, it feels like voice has been
(18:10):
the redheaded stepchild out of the groupyou just named, which is name, image,
likeness, and voice.
I feel like now it's an opportunity forvoice to get caught up with the other
three siblings, right?
Yeah, I agree.
And, you know, part of the reason why NAVAexists is because...
Sag -Aftra is awesome, but they're made upprimarily of on -camera talent.
(18:34):
And so the needs of voice actors are notfront and center for Sag -Aftra.
We are kind of in the same group as like,I would say like stunt performers or
singers or dancers who are also Sag -Aftramembers, but not necessarily like the
core, the core group of people who make upSag -Aftra.
(18:54):
And so we just wanted.
to form an association that could helpguide SAG -AFTRA, help them, help
highlight the things that we think arereally important so that they can better
look at the situation and go, there's thisgroup of people that also are really
vulnerable to this issue.
And let's see what we can do specificallyfor them because they make up a part of
(19:18):
our membership as well.
And it's so much easier to clone just avoice believably.
It's a lot harder to do voice and imagetogether.
and so we are more vulnerable than anyother type of actor that is part of the
union or that exists out in the world.
(19:41):
and so, yeah, that's, that's, we'recatching up.
We're catching up.
People are seeing us now.
Speaking of Nava specifically, Tim, yourco -founder, Tim Friedlander and president
of Nava has said to me many times, youknow, we are,
Pro voice actor, we are union agnostic.
Is that a tricky balance for NAVA as anorganization to stay union agnostic when
(20:04):
you're working so closely with SAG -AFTRAor do you have their cooperation and
collaboration in that sort of work ethic?
I think if we...
So I would say all of the things we do atNAVA elevate voice actors in general.
including people in the union.
(20:26):
Nothing we do at NAVA goes against whatSEG -AFTRA is trying to do.
So I think they are, you know, we want towork with them as much as possible.
Being union agnostic has mostly to do withthe fact that the voiceover, the reality
of the voiceover industry, which is thatmost voice actors out there are non -union
(20:47):
or they're FICOR.
or their union and they sometimes do non-union work.
That is a reality of the industry that welive in.
And so the more we can do to protectpeople on the non -union side, the better
all of us are going to be.
The more we can set the standards on thenon -union side, the easier it will be for
Sagatran to negotiate contracts that areequal to the standards that are outside of
(21:12):
the union and make them better.
And if we kind of just make sure thateverything non -union aligns with what SAG
-AFTRA is trying to do on the union side,the whole industry will be better.
So that's, that's been our stance and ithasn't really been tricky.
Sometimes, sometimes we have to think, wehave to think about what we say and do and
(21:34):
make sure that it kind of aligns with,with what's good for everybody.
But beyond that, it really hasn't beenvery difficult.
We found a lot of support with.
SEG -AFTRA and hopefully we're supportingthem as well.
That's really good to hear.
Turning the page a little bit because forthe last 12, 14, 16 months, the AI issue
(21:55):
has been the issue that's eaten voiceoverpretty much.
Pretty much anybody talks about.
There are other issues that NAVA isdealing with and fighting for, et cetera.
What are they?
Because I think we've lost touch of, bythe way, the world exists outside of
artificial intelligence as well.
Yeah.
There is a lot that we're working on allthe time.
(22:17):
One of the things that came from the kindof unfortunate situation with the coach,
Lisa Biggs, which we can talk about alsolater if you want, but we created a demos
best practices page that has been sharedpretty widely.
It's just a good source of information.
So that's one thing.
(22:38):
We have an incredible diversity.
equity, inclusion and accessibility team.
Our committee for DEIA is amazing.
And they have been working for monthsputting together a best practices for
casting page, which hopefully will go upsoon.
(23:00):
We're launching a campaign about authenticrepresentation and authentic casting soon.
But they are just, I am in awe.
of what they have done and I can't waitfor everybody to see it because it's just,
it's so thoughtful.
It's so, did you lose me there?
I get a little notification.
(23:22):
It seems like a little bit of a wave in myinternet.
Yeah, we can edit it out.
It's no big deal.
I'm in awe of what they've done.
It's so thoughtful.
It's so, it's just so well articulated.
And yeah, I just can't wait for everybodyto see it.
Let me ask you this.
We have, we're working on best castingpractices in terms of DEIA.
(23:46):
The flip side of that is best auditioningpractices.
In other words, guiding the voice actorwhen and what to audition for ethically,
because we've had those issues in ourbusiness.
Is that something that the DEIA committeeis working on as well?
Is that going to be a flip side to thecasting practices?
Yeah.
Yeah, I think it will kind of roll inaltogether.
(24:08):
So if you read the casting practices, itwill apply to actors as well.
And you get really an idea of what isappropriate and what's not appropriate.
There have been lots of issues in thevoiceover community with people pretending
to be from a certain ethnic group thatthey are not.
There have been people who created entirewebsites of a persona that was a person of
(24:32):
a different ethnicity.
And that...
that is extremely hurtful to the peoplewho are part of that group.
And so I'm really, really glad to see thatwe are moving away from that.
And I hope that everyone who has ever donethat in the past has learned from what
(24:55):
they, from all of us who are trying tofight for authentic representation in
casting.
It's really important.
It absolutely is.
Let's get down to Karen Gilfrey.
What's going on with you these days?
Because every time I go to a conference,I'd love to see you.
I'd love to get a big hug from you.
And then I look at the award sheet andit's nominated Karen Gilfrey.
(25:17):
Karen Gilfrey.
Karen Gilfrey.
I mean, you get more nominations and moreawards than I think anybody I can think of
off the top of my head.
I don't know.
And it speaks to your skill and talent asa voice actor.
Where do you at where you are right now inyour career?
Obviously you're very accomplished.
Where do you want to go?
(25:38):
Where do you want to grow in the yet inthe next year to five?
That is such a great question.
I'm so, I love my job so much.
Every like even stupid auditions.
I just love to do them.
I love my clients.
Even the ones that annoy me.
I love them.
(25:59):
and a little less.
I love them a little less than some.
There's some that are great.
There's some that are medium good.
But I, I, I feel like, I truly feel likeeach and every one of us in this business
has limitless potential.
Anything is possible.
There is no income ceiling.
(26:20):
There is no ceiling for what you can do inthis job.
And I'm just excited to see everythingthat comes next.
I feel like I haven't done as much.
in video games and animation as I could.
And that's, those are genres that areexciting to me.
And I'm, and I'm looking forward toexploring those a little bit more.
(26:41):
I love everything that I'm doing incommercials.
I love doing, in show narration.
I've been narrating a lot of true crimeshows lately, which is really fun.
And then also I feel so professionallyfulfilled by all of the organizations that
I've started and all of the organizationsthat I'm part of.
And all of the different events andconferences and all kinds of things that,
(27:05):
that I have been putting together.
because it just feels like, you know, you,you like imagine this thing, like let's
have a conference in Costa Rica.
And it seems like a totally crazy idea anddream.
And then you just take one step toward itand another one, another one, and it kind
of starts to flesh out and you get moreand more excited.
And then one day you open up Facebook andpeople are on a plane.
(27:29):
coming to the thing that you just had theidea about.
And the next thing you know, monkeys arestealing your food.
And the next thing you know, monkeys arestealing your food and Jennifer Hale is
singing with you in a piano bar.
And, and, and it just feels so awesome.
But the thing that I would love for anyonelistening to take away from this is that I
(27:56):
am not special.
There's nothing like.
crazy, weird about me.
I just love doing it.
And I just keep doing it every day.
And if you find something that you lovedoing and you just keep doing it every
day, little by little, you're going to getbetter and better and better and achieve
the thing that you want to achieve.
(28:17):
So just keep that in mind, keep workingand just go for the thing that you want.
I can't think of a better way to end thispodcast.
And it's always a pleasure talking to you.
I will see you in Dallas.
Yes.
Yes, I will be there.
Yeah.
And maybe we'll check in later in the yearto find out where things like legislation
are and those are the issues that wetalked about today.
(28:38):
I'd love to have you back on if you'regame.
Absolutely.
I'd love to anytime.
Notice how I put you on the spot whilewe're still in the podcast episode.
It's like planning a second date on yourfirst date.
Exactly.
It's the salesman is me.
You always get the next appointment beforeyou get off the first appointment.
Karen Guilfrey, the wonderful founder of
(28:58):
Voice actors of New York City, the co-founder of Nava, the creator of, God,
vocation, evocation, and the pillar, oneof the true pillars of our voiceover
community.
We would not be where we are today as agroup, as individuals, union, non -union,
it doesn't matter.
(29:19):
If it weren't for the work of you and Timand the Nava board, we are all indebted to
you and we can't thank you enough andwe'll see you soon.
Thank you.
My guest today is one of two people that Ihave said if there's ever a Nobel Peace
Prize for voiceover, this lady should beeligible for it.
She is the founder of Voice Actors of NewYork City.
She is a co -founder of the NationalAssociation of Voice Actors.
She is a co -creator of vocation andevocation, and she just creates and gets
(00:23):
after it.
And by the way, an illustrious career as avoice actor herself.
Please welcome my dear friend,
Karn Gilfreed to the VOPro Podcast.
God, it's good to see you.
Aw, it's so good to see you, Paul.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
First thing I asked you off mic when wefirst got together a few minutes ago was,
are you recovered?
Tell me about vocation.
(00:43):
How was it?
Because everything I've read, seen, andheard, people are losing their minds over
this thing.
It was so much fun.
It was like one of the most magicalweekends I...
have been a part of in voiceover in mylife.
It was just amazing.
We, we spent four days, three nights inCosta Rica at an all -inclusive resort in
(01:06):
the jungle and on the beach.
Jennifer Hale was our keynote speaker andshe was just incredible.
I mean, the most amazing thing to me abouther besides what she presented, which was
so great, is that she actually sat in theconference almost the entire time taking
notes.
and learning from people the whole time.
(01:27):
And this is, this is a person who is anabsolute legend.
Like she holds the Guinness book of worldrecords for the most female video game
characters, the actor to voice the mostfemale video game characters.
She has done every single genre.
She has been in the industry for a longtime and she was literally sitting in
(01:47):
there just absorbing and learning becausethere's always more to learn.
The world changes, there's always more tolearn.
This is what I keep telling people, right?
People say, well, I'm not sure if I needcoaching.
Even the elite voice actors continue tocoach and learn and try to get 1 % better
(02:08):
every day.
Even the elites.
And that's a great example.
And that was, that was kind of the vibe ofthe whole weekend.
The people who were there are all peoplewho, every single attendee could have
taught a class.
They were so...
It was just a group of really wonderfulprofessional voice actors who were there
to learn from each other as colleagues.
(02:28):
And it was just, it was amazing.
There were some beginners as well.
And I think if you're a beginner, you alsocan get a ton, ton of information out of
it, but it, but it's a very, it was a veryhigh level conference and all of the
attendees there were just amazing.
I don't want to put you on the spot.
And what I want maybe is to correct amisperception on my part.
(02:49):
I know when vocation started out a coupleof years ago, the initial emphasis was on
the business side of voiceovers.
That's still as true as it used to be.
Yeah.
You know, the destination conferences.
Well, basically we don't do anyperformance.
So you'll never have a coach go up andsay, here's a script, have somebody come
up and read a script.
And the reason why is that you can getthat at a lot of different conferences.
(03:12):
Via Atlanta is fantastic.
One Voice is fantastic.
MaVo is great.
And you get that kind of performancecoaching.
But for me and Jamie Muffet, my businesspartner, the reason we created Vocation
was because all of us are small businessowners and none of us took classes in how
to run a small business.
(03:33):
And so we made this conference to be ableto teach people who studied theater in
college or opera singing like me incollege or music or whatever you happen to
go into.
Because most people come into voiceoverfrom other disciplines.
We created this conference.
to give voice actors better information onhow to treat themselves as businesses and
(03:54):
run their businesses better.
Yeah, it's a lot like parenting, right?
You kind of plopped in the middle of itand you really don't have a manual.
Yes, that's absolutely true.
So, but we also thought, you know, abusiness conference could potentially be
kind of dry.
So why not have it in a beautiful locationso that you're sitting focusing on
business during the day and then you getto be in the pool with your friends and
(04:15):
chill and relax in the afternoon.
and hang out with monkeys and go toparties and so that's how it is.
Sounds awful.
Are you okay?
Do you want to lie down?
What's funny is I, for the entireconference, I think I was inside for 90 %
of the time.
Wow.
Well, yeah, you're one of the organizers.
I was running it, yeah.
(04:35):
So I had to be there in the morning atlike seven to make sure the room was set
up and make sure everyone's AV equipmentwas working and then we would have a break
in the evenings.
from four to eight, but I would be stillsetting up for the parties in the
evenings.
I want for folks that aren't, that don'thave their head entirely wrapped around
vocation and evocation, give me athumbnail on how they differ.
(04:59):
So evocation is completely online.
It is, it is the only virtual, onlyconference, that's completely dedicated to
business.
Maybe there's one other one now, but weused to be the only, the first, the first,
online only.
Voice over conferences dedicated tobusiness.
(05:19):
And what's great about that is that it'saccessible to everyone.
It doesn't matter, you know, if you can'tafford to travel to a place like Vio
Atlanta or Costa Rica or Dallas orwhatever, you can just be in your home and
it's extremely interactive.
I really did not realize how much of acommunity you can create online until the
(05:41):
pandemic.
And we've kind of, we've kind of just keptit going.
People who have medical conditions thatprevent them from traveling can come to
this conference.
There are all kinds of amazing speakers.
We even have parties, Zoom parties, andit's so much fun.
Our vocation destination conferences takeplace in a location.
(06:02):
So that's the main difference.
Yeah.
And I think the thing that I love aboutevocation is, and you kind of touched on
this, is that it makes it a little bitmore accessible for folks that are...
just starting out, don't have as much toinvest in their business, et cetera, et
cetera, because to go to Costa Rica ain'tcheap, right?
To go to a destination isn't cheap.
So this makes it keeps the playing field alittle bit more level, which I love.
(06:26):
Absolutely.
Let's get back to the matter, the subjectof the day slash year, right?
Which has been,
This chicken little -esque reaction theindustry has had to AI, to even the
platform's use of AI.
(06:46):
You and I were there this March at the atVio Atlanta and the online casting panel
and got to meet and actually chat with onstage Jay O 'Connor of Voices .com.
It's been what?
A month and a half.
since that conference as we record today.
(07:08):
It's been about maybe six, seven months, Iguess, since Jay took over, correct?
Give me your impressions on a report card,how Jay is stacking up to the promises
that he made on stage at VO Atlanta.
Now, I realize we're only about another 45days down the road from there, but give me
your assessment so far.
Well, one thing I can tell you is that weat NAVA reached out to Jay O 'Connor,
(07:33):
I think maybe the day they announced himas the new CEO.
And he was announced as interim CEO.
He was announced as interim CEO.
That tag still fits as far as I know.
I'm not sure.
I haven't seen an update in print.
I know that his whole team there, who I'vetalked to, they really like him.
(07:54):
And we at Nava have been talking to themand trying to work with them and help them
understand kind of the plight of thevoiceover.
community since he took over as CEO.
And they have been extremely receptive tomeeting with us and hearing more.
The thing about Jay O 'Connor is that hedoes not come from a voiceover background.
(08:17):
And this whole business is so intricate.
There are so many different facets to howthe business operates and how things run
and all the different genres and what isimportant for one is not the same thing
that's important for the other.
And so.
He has really had to dive in and learn anindustry from the ground up.
(08:37):
He came out, he came to their company andyou know, all of their trust pilot ratings
are very high.
A lot of the public facing informationabout how the company is doing is very
favorable.
So when he came to the company, he haddone all of that research and he was like,
great, this is a company that everyoneloves stepping in as CEO.
And it was.
(08:58):
Yeah.
I think it was kind of, I think it waskind of a shock to him and also to the
staff at Voices .com because they, sinceeverything happened with David Ciccarelli
and all of the way that the community washandled under that leadership, Voices .com
has largely not been a part of the samevoiceover community that we are a part of.
(09:21):
So I think, I think everyone over therehas been living in their own kind of
ecosystem.
And they were not as aware of the feelingstoward the company as they could have
been.
And we at Nava have been doing our best tojust try and tell them the story of how
(09:42):
things went south and how things could bebetter.
And to their credit, it seems like theyare really working on it.
They're meeting with new lawyers andthings to update some of their
their language on the website and theyseem to really have a desire to do things.
(10:04):
It's just taking longer than we wouldhope, but it seems like it's still in
process.
So that's a good thing.
I feel like that's, you know, when you'vegot a corporation that big, it takes a
little while to turn the battleship.
And on one hand, it seems like a very easything.
And I've even said in recent weeks, itfeels like some of the stuff that we're
still seeing on voices .com.
(10:26):
Maybe I'd hope by now we wouldn't beseeing as much and it doesn't seem like
that has really decreased so far.
But, you know, I want to take a wait andsee attitude.
The question is how long do we wait?
And I'm not sure what the answer to thatis right now.
Let's get to a little bit back to AI andsome of the hysteria around that.
(10:48):
You guys at NAVA are at the center of thefight.
on behalf of all of us voice actors andeven and maybe you can give me your
impressions of this car and not only areyou guys I feel like fighting for us as
voice actors and artists and even oncamera folks as as actors and artists but
I feel like this AI issue is so pervasive.
(11:11):
All of us, whether we're voice actors,actors or not, we're all vulnerable to
this.
And do you feel that responsibility whenyou're in Washington talking to lawmakers
or you're at a state Capitol?
Do you feel like you're fighting for morethan just our little voiceover bubble?
Absolutely.
And that's one of the things that we aredoing our best to try and explain to all
(11:34):
of the lawmakers that we're talking to.
One of the things we did the first time wewent to DC was we created a synthetic
version of my six year old daughter.
And we went around and played it in theoffices and played her actual recording
and her synthetic voice recording.
And they, you know, I think people kind ofhave an idea of like, AI is getting really
advanced and wow, this is like, but theydon't, you don't realize just how advanced
(11:59):
it is until someone plays a side by sidefor you of this is this.
little six -year -old girl's voice andthis is her synthetic voice.
Imagine what can be done with her and toher by using that synthetic voice.
This is something that needs to belegislated as soon as possible, not just
for us, but for everyone.
And you think too about the securityrisks, like, you know, if you are using a
(12:24):
banking system that allows you to accessyour bank by saying my voice is my
password, someone could create a syntheticversion of your voice and get into your
bank.
right now as it stands.
And that's really scary.
I am a really my checking account.
My personal checking account is with areally large national bank.
I won't mention which one, but everysingle time I sign on to my website, it
(12:48):
wants me to authenticate my voice to useas my password, just as you said.
And I'm thinking, how can you as a majornational brand and bank be asking that in?
in the last 12 to 14 months.
I mean, it just feels tone deaf to me,right?
Yeah.
Because that's so easily exploited.
We had a, we did a roundtable with the FTCrecently, and that was one of the things
(13:13):
that we brought up just as like a consumerprotection thing that this needed to be
taken care of sooner rather than later.
And so far, I don't think, I don't thinkthey've made any official, you know,
statement or...
rules about that kind of thing, but it'sdefinitely on their radar.
Why is it, do you think, and maybe youdisagree, but it seems pretty clear to me
(13:35):
that the US is so far behind, for example,the European Union in passing these
protections.
So I wouldn't necessarily say the US is sofar behind.
The place in which we are extremely farbehind is data protection in general.
GDPR in the EU,
(13:57):
is extremely good and important for thepeople that live there.
For us, I feel like there's so much morethat can be done.
I mean, just having to click a button thatsays I accept cookies or don't accept
cookies.
I mean, cookies sound delicious.
Half the population doesn't know what theyare.
So you just click accept.
(14:18):
Fine, I want cookies, of course.
And people are not really...
You're not wrong.
Is this going to help the site run better?
Like what is this?
You know, like there's, there just isn't alot of education about what it is and why
you should accept it or decline it.
And that's really the only regulationthat's in place right now that we're, that
(14:40):
we're seeing on the public side.
So, you know, data protection isincredibly important.
Your voice print is your data and beyondjust being data, it's your biometric data.
And owning the rights to your ownbiometric data is extremely important.
And that's one of the things that we arereally fighting for.
(15:01):
So that's one side of it.
The other side is kind of right ofpublicity laws are much better in the EU
and UK than they are in the United States.
You can't just take someone's voice,image, name, or likeness and put it up
wherever you want and not pay them.
In the United States,
(15:21):
You kind of can.
There are certain states where your voice,image, name, and likeness are protected a
bit more.
In Illinois and New York and Californiaand Washington and Tennessee now,
Tennessee just passed this new Elvis Act,which kind of helps with right of
(15:42):
publicity.
Beyond that, in the rest of the country,you have pretty much no protection.
So that's one of the things we're tryingto do is to get a federal law passed that
would ensure your right of publicity sothat people can't just take the thing that
you make money from and use it.
And that law has been introduced intoCongress now.
(16:03):
Where are we with that?
We're looking at a couple of differentbills.
The No Fakes Act is one that we arestrongly supporting, and we're going to
DC.
next week actually to go to go talk tosome lawmakers about about supporting that
bill.
And so I hope we make some headway.
(16:23):
You know, luckily, there seems to be a lotof bipartisan support.
There is not a giant group of people whoare saying don't regulate AI.
That's dumb.
Almost everyone is saying.
Yes, this is something that needs to bedone quickly.
And as far as a bipartisan issue, Iunderstand that.
(16:43):
How formidable is the AI slash tech lobbyand how much of an impediment have you
found that to be so far?
We, I mean, I don't feel like we've comeup against them specifically, anyone from
there specifically.
But, you know, in the end, I thinksenators and congresspeople,
(17:04):
They really care about protecting theirown voice likeness, name and image.
Because if you're running for re -electionand somebody can just take your voice and
make you say whatever you want, that'svery bad for you.
It's already been done.
It's very bad.
So putting some protections in place, Ithink, is important.
(17:25):
And I can't imagine that they would goagainst their own self -interest to kind
of like...
I don't know.
When it dawned on me that, you know,nobody really cares, arguably so, for the
plight of the lowly voice actor.
When it dawned on me that the generalpublic was going to be affected and even
(17:45):
more so, lawmakers themselves could bescammed and could be parodied and spoofed
and, you know, deepfakes, right?
When that dawned on me, I thought, well,this legislation is going to move along a
little bit quicker than I originallythought.
Let's go back to voice actors for aminute.
I feel like this is an opportunity.
When I say this, these new laws, these newprotections, it feels like voice has been
(18:10):
the redheaded stepchild out of the groupyou just named, which is name, image,
likeness, and voice.
I feel like now it's an opportunity forvoice to get caught up with the other
three siblings, right?
Yeah, I agree.
And, you know, part of the reason why NAVAexists is because...
Sag -Aftra is awesome, but they're made upprimarily of on -camera talent.
(18:34):
And so the needs of voice actors are notfront and center for Sag -Aftra.
We are kind of in the same group as like,I would say like stunt performers or
singers or dancers who are also Sag -Aftramembers, but not necessarily like the
core, the core group of people who make upSag -Aftra.
(18:54):
And so we just wanted.
to form an association that could helpguide SAG -AFTRA, help them, help
highlight the things that we think arereally important so that they can better
look at the situation and go, there's thisgroup of people that also are really
vulnerable to this issue.
And let's see what we can do specificallyfor them because they make up a part of
(19:18):
our membership as well.
And it's so much easier to clone just avoice believably.
It's a lot harder to do voice and imagetogether.
and so we are more vulnerable than anyother type of actor that is part of the
union or that exists out in the world.
(19:41):
and so, yeah, that's, that's, we'recatching up.
We're catching up.
People are seeing us now.
Speaking of Nava specifically, Tim, yourco -founder, Tim Friedlander and president
of Nava has said to me many times, youknow, we are,
Pro voice actor, we are union agnostic.
Is that a tricky balance for NAVA as anorganization to stay union agnostic when
(20:04):
you're working so closely with SAG -AFTRAor do you have their cooperation and
collaboration in that sort of work ethic?
I think if we...
So I would say all of the things we do atNAVA elevate voice actors in general.
including people in the union.
(20:26):
Nothing we do at NAVA goes against whatSEG -AFTRA is trying to do.
So I think they are, you know, we want towork with them as much as possible.
Being union agnostic has mostly to do withthe fact that the voiceover, the reality
of the voiceover industry, which is thatmost voice actors out there are non -union
(20:47):
or they're FICOR.
or their union and they sometimes do non-union work.
That is a reality of the industry that welive in.
And so the more we can do to protectpeople on the non -union side, the better
all of us are going to be.
The more we can set the standards on thenon -union side, the easier it will be for
Sagatran to negotiate contracts that areequal to the standards that are outside of
(21:12):
the union and make them better.
And if we kind of just make sure thateverything non -union aligns with what SAG
-AFTRA is trying to do on the union side,the whole industry will be better.
So that's, that's been our stance and ithasn't really been tricky.
Sometimes, sometimes we have to think, wehave to think about what we say and do and
(21:34):
make sure that it kind of aligns with,with what's good for everybody.
But beyond that, it really hasn't beenvery difficult.
We found a lot of support with.
SEG -AFTRA and hopefully we're supportingthem as well.
That's really good to hear.
Turning the page a little bit because forthe last 12, 14, 16 months, the AI issue
(21:55):
has been the issue that's eaten voiceoverpretty much.
Pretty much anybody talks about.
There are other issues that NAVA isdealing with and fighting for, et cetera.
What are they?
Because I think we've lost touch of, bythe way, the world exists outside of
artificial intelligence as well.
Yeah.
There is a lot that we're working on allthe time.
(22:17):
One of the things that came from the kindof unfortunate situation with the coach,
Lisa Biggs, which we can talk about alsolater if you want, but we created a demos
best practices page that has been sharedpretty widely.
It's just a good source of information.
So that's one thing.
(22:38):
We have an incredible diversity.
equity, inclusion and accessibility team.
Our committee for DEIA is amazing.
And they have been working for monthsputting together a best practices for
casting page, which hopefully will go upsoon.
(23:00):
We're launching a campaign about authenticrepresentation and authentic casting soon.
But they are just, I am in awe.
of what they have done and I can't waitfor everybody to see it because it's just,
it's so thoughtful.
It's so, did you lose me there?
I get a little notification.
(23:22):
It seems like a little bit of a wave in myinternet.
Yeah, we can edit it out.
It's no big deal.
I'm in awe of what they've done.
It's so thoughtful.
It's so, it's just so well articulated.
And yeah, I just can't wait for everybodyto see it.
Let me ask you this.
We have, we're working on best castingpractices in terms of DEIA.
(23:46):
The flip side of that is best auditioningpractices.
In other words, guiding the voice actorwhen and what to audition for ethically,
because we've had those issues in ourbusiness.
Is that something that the DEIA committeeis working on as well?
Is that going to be a flip side to thecasting practices?
Yeah.
Yeah, I think it will kind of roll inaltogether.
(24:08):
So if you read the casting practices, itwill apply to actors as well.
And you get really an idea of what isappropriate and what's not appropriate.
There have been lots of issues in thevoiceover community with people pretending
to be from a certain ethnic group thatthey are not.
There have been people who created entirewebsites of a persona that was a person of
(24:32):
a different ethnicity.
And that...
that is extremely hurtful to the peoplewho are part of that group.
And so I'm really, really glad to see thatwe are moving away from that.
And I hope that everyone who has ever donethat in the past has learned from what
(24:55):
they, from all of us who are trying tofight for authentic representation in
casting.
It's really important.
It absolutely is.
Let's get down to Karen Gilfrey.
What's going on with you these days?
Because every time I go to a conference,I'd love to see you.
I'd love to get a big hug from you.
And then I look at the award sheet andit's nominated Karen Gilfrey.
(25:17):
Karen Gilfrey.
Karen Gilfrey.
I mean, you get more nominations and moreawards than I think anybody I can think of
off the top of my head.
I don't know.
And it speaks to your skill and talent asa voice actor.
Where do you at where you are right now inyour career?
Obviously you're very accomplished.
Where do you want to go?
(25:38):
Where do you want to grow in the yet inthe next year to five?
That is such a great question.
I'm so, I love my job so much.
Every like even stupid auditions.
I just love to do them.
I love my clients.
Even the ones that annoy me.
I love them.
(25:59):
and a little less.
I love them a little less than some.
There's some that are great.
There's some that are medium good.
But I, I, I feel like, I truly feel likeeach and every one of us in this business
has limitless potential.
Anything is possible.
There is no income ceiling.
(26:20):
There is no ceiling for what you can do inthis job.
And I'm just excited to see everythingthat comes next.
I feel like I haven't done as much.
in video games and animation as I could.
And that's, those are genres that areexciting to me.
And I'm, and I'm looking forward toexploring those a little bit more.
(26:41):
I love everything that I'm doing incommercials.
I love doing, in show narration.
I've been narrating a lot of true crimeshows lately, which is really fun.
And then also I feel so professionallyfulfilled by all of the organizations that
I've started and all of the organizationsthat I'm part of.
And all of the different events andconferences and all kinds of things that,
(27:05):
that I have been putting together.
because it just feels like, you know, you,you like imagine this thing, like let's
have a conference in Costa Rica.
And it seems like a totally crazy idea anddream.
And then you just take one step toward itand another one, another one, and it kind
of starts to flesh out and you get moreand more excited.
And then one day you open up Facebook andpeople are on a plane.
(27:29):
coming to the thing that you just had theidea about.
And the next thing you know, monkeys arestealing your food.
And the next thing you know, monkeys arestealing your food and Jennifer Hale is
singing with you in a piano bar.
And, and, and it just feels so awesome.
But the thing that I would love for anyonelistening to take away from this is that I
(27:56):
am not special.
There's nothing like.
crazy, weird about me.
I just love doing it.
And I just keep doing it every day.
And if you find something that you lovedoing and you just keep doing it every
day, little by little, you're going to getbetter and better and better and achieve
the thing that you want to achieve.
(28:17):
So just keep that in mind, keep workingand just go for the thing that you want.
I can't think of a better way to end thispodcast.
And it's always a pleasure talking to you.
I will see you in Dallas.
Yes.
Yes, I will be there.
Yeah.
And maybe we'll check in later in the yearto find out where things like legislation
are and those are the issues that wetalked about today.
(28:38):
I'd love to have you back on if you'regame.
Absolutely.
I'd love to anytime.
Notice how I put you on the spot whilewe're still in the podcast episode.
It's like planning a second date on yourfirst date.
Exactly.
It's the salesman is me.
You always get the next appointment beforeyou get off the first appointment.
Karen Guilfrey, the wonderful founder of
(28:58):
Voice actors of New York City, the co-founder of Nava, the creator of, God,
vocation, evocation, and the pillar, oneof the true pillars of our voiceover
community.
We would not be where we are today as agroup, as individuals, union, non -union,
it doesn't matter.
(29:19):
If it weren't for the work of you and Timand the Nava board, we are all indebted to
you and we can't thank you enough andwe'll see you soon.
Thank you.
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'Monster: BTK', the newest installment in the 'Monster' franchise, reveals the true story of the Wichita, Kansas serial killer who murdered at least 10 people between 1974 and 1991. Known by the moniker, BTK – Bind Torture Kill, his notoriety was bolstered by the taunting letters he sent to police, and the chilling phone calls he made to media outlets. BTK's identity was finally revealed in 2005 to the shock of his family, his community, and the world. He was the serial killer next door. From Tenderfoot TV & iHeartPodcasts, this is 'Monster: BTK'.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.