July 28, 2024 • 23 mins
Ever wondered what it takes to balance purpose and profit? Gill Hunter takes us behind the scenes of Square One Law's two-year journey to achieve B Corp certification.
She shares candid insights into building an inclusive workplace, why cultural change is crucial for any organisation.
Discover how she and her team are not just aiming for financial success, but also making a positive impact on people and the planet.
Listen to Learn:
- What winning at the 2024 Northern Power Women Awards meant to Gill
- How Square One Law became a B-Corp
- The hurdles women face in the legal profession
- The importance of recognising unsung heroes
Sign up to our Power Platform to check out our events calendar here.
Keep up to date on the latest news from We Are Power : Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook
Sign up to our newsletter.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hello and welcome to the we Are Power podcast
Northern Power Women podcast.
For your career and your life,no matter what business you're
in.
Hello and welcome to the we ArePower podcast.
This is the podcast where weget to chat to some fantastic
(00:33):
role models, hear their greatstories, their top tips, their
guidance.
We're always looking, I alwaysfeel like I'm looking for the
tote bag moment, the momentwhere someone gives me that one,
that lovely nugget that youlike, that should be on a
t-shirt, should be on a postcard, should be on a tote bag, and
so we're always looking for that.
We want to be able to pass thaton to you, whether it's for
your career, your life, whateveryour adventures on.
(00:53):
That was what this podcast isabout, and this season that
we're in is all about revisiting, uh, back, way back to march
2024 and the northern PowerWomen Awards the eighth year of
the awards and we'd like to goback and find out what people
have been up to.
What did it feel like, wheredid the time go and what it has
(01:14):
meant to them.
And I'm delighted this weekthat we are welcoming our SME
2024 winner, square One Law.
And here we have the managingpartner, jill Hunter.
Jill, how are you?
I'm good.
Thanks, savoy, it's good totalk to you.
Oh, and it just seems such along time ago, doesn't it, since
we were in that, in that, inthat room in in manchester back
(01:35):
in march.
Um, what would you?
I know we we did a winner'spodcast and we always to ask
people what, what were the threewords that it meant to them?
What's the three words thatresonate with you about that
winning that award?
Oh, three words.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
That's a tough one.
So I think, recognition, youknow, recognition that actually
we do what we say.
We do because, particularly inmy industry, know, in legal,
everybody says the same stuff,um, but there's very few people
who actually do it.
Particularly around genderequality, people say, oh yes,
(02:10):
everybody's welcome, everybody'sincluded, and that's not true.
So I think for us it'srecognition, um celebration,
because, um, it's been.
We, we've undertaken a veryintensive cultural change
program over the last two yearsand across the business,
everybody has been involved inthat.
(02:32):
So it's a real celebration, notjust for me but for the whole
team.
And then I think opportunity isthe other one on.
So, you know, the opportunityto build on that and the
opportunity to, you know,attract new people who are, you
know, young women, who arethinking, oh, is this
professional really for me?
(02:52):
Um, I met a young girl justrecently who I'm sort of
mentoring, and she's atuniversity and her university
lecturer told her to abandon heraspirations of being in law
because she was a woman, shewouldn't get anywhere.
Oh, my life, this is 2024 andwe've still got people, male
lecturer, saying things likethat to young women.
(03:12):
So you know, for me it's theopportunity to go.
No, there are.
There are places where you will.
You will fit in.
There are places where therewill be just the same
opportunities for you, no matterwhat your gender is.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
And you just talked about having a massive
transformation cultural projectgoing on.
I think that's what we need inorganisations is our whether it
be our big global businesses,our SMEs and our micro to really
kind of build those businesseswith culture at the heart.
And that's I feel like I'veknown you for a while, you know,
since I remember way back satin a I think it was the
(03:46):
Malmaison in Newcastle all thoseyears ago and we had a great
round table with the wonderful.
We had Professor Jane Turner,the late Professor Jane Turner,
there, and I know there was apassion around that table around
culture.
And how do we shift that?
How do we shift and how do weextinct that dinosaur behavior?
What are your big learningsabout kind of this, the culture
(04:07):
project?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
there are lots of misconceptions, I think, around
around what you need to do forcultural change.
You don't need huge resource.
We, we are not.
You know where.
My business has 70 people in itand we do not have a head of hr
.
We do not have a head of HR.
We do not have a culturalchange director.
We do not have it.
You don't need that.
You don't need a huge amount ofmoney um to do it, and it does
(04:33):
have real business benefits.
Um, what you need is is thedesire and the will to want to
do it and to do it for the rightreasons.
Um, you know my passion for itcomes from my own experience as
a junior lawyer, coming throughand feeling like a you know I
hate using the expression but asquare peg in a round hole, you
know, not knowing where I fittedin, not worrying that I
(04:55):
wouldn't have opportunities, notjust because I was a woman, but
because of my background, mysexuality, all of these sorts of
things, and I just you know theteam here really determined
that we would create somewheredifferent, and that's what you
need.
I also am involved with theWest End Women and Girls Centre,
which is a brilliant centre inthe North East that supports
(05:18):
women and girls from verydeprived backgrounds and they
have no resource backgrounds andthey have no resource.
Look at what these people hereare achieving with absolutely
nothing, because they all have acommon purpose, common will,
and they're doing it forabsolutely the right reasons.
Sorry, that's a really longanswer to your question.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
No, but I think the takeaway from that is it like
you say, it doesn't have to havehuge resource and huge money,
it's all about will.
Isn isn't it all willing and agood old cracking northern like
cracking on, isn't it?
I suppose it is at the heart ofit and I know we've really been
sort of so keen to sort ofspread the love of northern
power women across from one sideof the pennines to the other,
(05:59):
and I'm always really sort ofbuoyed by the enthusiasm of
which the awards and the widercommunity are met from the North
East.
So it was great.
I think we had a record numberof North East winners and
commended and future list gamechanger list this year.
Is it important to be part of asort of a bigger community like
(06:20):
this?
That feels like a loadedquestion, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (06:23):
You know, I think it can be.
Particularly if you're a womanleader in business, it can be
quite a lonely place.
I'm very lucky that, you know,my entire senior management team
are women, so I have my littlecommunity here.
But it's really good to connectwith other women leaders who
(06:44):
are also passionate about thesame things that you're
passionate about and share ideas.
And that's why I've gotinvolved with the mentoring
program, not just because Ithink I can bestow knowledge
upon people, but it's really asort of two-way process and I'm
learning from somebody who hascompletely different experiences
than me, different outlook onlife, different perspectives,
(07:07):
but we have a common desire tocreate good places of work for
all people.
And I think some of the culturalstuff you know people get hung
up on initiatives and things.
At the end of the day, it'sabout treating people well and
it's about being fair and it'sabout, yes, you can still make
difficult decisions, but you cando it with kindness and you can
(07:27):
do it with respect.
So I think it's really goodjust to have that ability to
come together and shareexperiences and share challenges
and get support, and that's thebenefit that I think Northern
Power Women has for me.
You know, the WhatsApp group issomething that you can just
jump onto and stick a request on.
(07:49):
Has anybody got this?
And it's all sorts of randomstuff, isn't it From you know?
Does anybody know where I canget some brilliant period pants?
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yeah, exactly, it's like Swap Shop.
Do you know Swap Shop of itsday?
Some of our listeners probablywon't, and that's probably me
showing myself on peer, but itis that I always think, if we
don't know, we know a woman orman who can is always my.
And those WhatsApp groups thatwe talk about, because it was
always like let's, let's, havemore seats at these tables and
then during the, the pandemic,we sort of we we took these
(08:21):
conversations into each of theregions and, um, I did a thing
about 24, 28 of them's a lot andit was brilliant, because every
single region has is led byobviously different people,
different cultures, differentrequirements, different passions
(08:42):
, and it was really, it wasfabulous, fascinating as to what
we could do and what we couldenable and, uh.
So it was only a few weeks agothat I know I dropped uh,
because we always love to thecelebration all year round, not
just for the awards and the factthat I'd seen that you had
posted that square one law hasbecome a b corp, uh, which is a
flipping big deal, isn't it?
(09:03):
It's something that I look atin awe and think like, for just
years and years I've gone, thatis just something I would aspire
to do for our business, but itseems terrifying For those who
aren't aware.
Can you summarize B Corp andthen we'll go into how you made
it happen?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah.
So B Corp is a movement thatoriginally came from the US and
what it's about is about wantingto have a better, more ethical
business where you balancepurpose and profit.
So we talk about people, planetand profit all having equal
(09:45):
importance in the business.
So it's an externalaccreditation, but it's not,
like you know, one of thesewhere you fill out a form but
you tick some boxes and then youget accreditation or you just
put a few policies in place andyou're sorted.
It's quite a rigorous process,so it has real meaning.
And the other thing it does isit provides you with a framework
.
So I think it's quite dauntingsometimes if you are going into
(10:06):
a cultural change.
You know.
You know you want to bedifferent, you know you want to
do something differently, youwant to improve your business,
particularly from an ethicalpoint of view.
Where do you start?
So you know there's theenvironment, there's your people
, there's your customers,there's your governance, there's
all of these things, and BCorps provides a framework for
that.
So you don't even if you don'twant to go through the whole
bcops journey you can use theirassessment tool to assess your
(10:31):
business and see how it wouldstack up, and it gives you a
framework and you go oh actually, I know a handful about that,
we need to, we need to look atthat.
Um, oh no, I don't know aboutthat part of my business.
We need to do some work on that.
So I think you know, whetheryou go through the process or
not, it's a really goodframework for people to use if
you want to be a better business.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
I love that, and how long did it take.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Well, it takes as long as you, not as long as you
want it to, but you know it canbe.
It can be done quite rapidly.
But we did it over two yearsbecause what I wanted to do was
not to do it from a box tickingpoint of view, not to just get
the accreditation.
I wanted it to be embedded inthe business um.
(11:15):
One of the things, one of therequirements, is that you change
your constitution so youacknowledge within your
constitution formally that youwill um consider the interests
of all of your stakeholders,whether it's customers,
suppliers, the community.
That you will consider theinterests of all of your
stakeholders, whether it'scustomers, suppliers, the
community that you operate in,your people, your shareholders
if you've got them, you willconsider all of their interests
(11:38):
when you make decisions.
And you have to change yourconstitution to do that and a
lot of people leave that rightto the end.
What was the first thing we did?
Was we changed that.
We made the commitment and said, right, we're going to do this.
So it's got to be part of ourconstitution from the start.
Whether or not we get theaccreditation is separate.
Because we think it's important, we did that.
(11:59):
So that happened two years ago,and then we made sure that we
made the changes that we neededalong the way so that we knew
that by the time we weresubmitting, we had all the
evidence to support that yes, wedo do all of these things and
we do them properly and not justfor the sake of it and to get
an accreditation.
(12:19):
So we took two years to do it.
The actual assessment processonce you submit, you get
allocated an assessor who sortof takes you through the initial
stages and just just sort ofsense check some of the
questions that you've answered.
Because there's a lot ofquestions to answer and some of
them are quite in detail andvery you have to think hard
(12:40):
about how you answer them.
They're not easy questions.
And so you have an assessor whohelps you through that initial
stage and that's two or threemonths.
And then you move on toverification, which is where
you're asked for evidence on notevery single question but a lot
of the questions, and theevidence is usually over a
five-year period.
(13:00):
So there's a lot of informationthat you have to pull together.
And then, once you go throughthat final point is you have an
interview.
Um, so you're interviewed by anassessor to just to make, just
to make sure that you aregenuine and it's not just
information that you've pulledtogether for the purposes of b
(13:20):
corps and it doesn't actuallyform part of the business.
Um, and then, once you're fullyverified, you sign an agreement
.
There's quite a big disclosureprocess as well, so you have to
look at your customer base,because there are a number of
controversial industries thatyou can't be involved in.
Some of them are obvious ones,like you know the production of
(13:41):
pornography and things like that, but also tobacco industry,
gambling.
There's quite a lot ofindustries that you have to be
very careful of and you have tomake an assessment.
So we brought in an ethicalclient policy.
So every time we get a newcustomer, we assess whether they
are somebody who we want towork with, who we should work
with.
So it does make fundamentalchange to your business.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
It's not something to go in from a lighthearted point
of view and think, well, thiswill be good to put on our
website yeah, I was going to saybecause that's that's what I'm
always fascinated, because Iknow how robust it is and how
how it appears to be, and andthe people I know who've gone
through other businesses that Iknow been successful.
Um, have you already felt achange within sort of the, the
(14:23):
approach, either your existingclients or your new clients, or
even your actual teams, yourcolleagues?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yes, I think we've just recently been accredited
Everybody.
We kept them up to date withthe journey.
But internally, what we'redoing now is we're running
sessions with people, becausethis isn't the end of the
journey.
This is the start ofimprovement.
So one of the really goodthings you get when you get your
accreditation is an improvementsuggestion areas that you can
improve.
So it's never done right, it'snever done, never done, and
(14:52):
you're accredited every threeyears.
So we're just doing workshopswith our people at the moment
about what each of those areaswhere we need to improve so we
can get ideas from the businessas to how we can do it in terms
of customers and clients andthings.
In terms of customers andclients and things, we've
already become part of acommunity as a B Corp.
(15:12):
There are social events, there'sa conference, there's all of
that sort of stuff.
So again, it's that communitything where you're meeting
like-minded people and we'refinding people that we want to
work with and people want towork with us.
So it's great from that pointof view as well.
You are part of a meaningfulcommunity and I think you know,
as I said earlier, there are somany people who say they are
(15:34):
doing good stuff, but actuallythe reality is they're not.
I mean, law firms are abrilliant example of that.
They all think they've gotamazing cultures and when you
scratch the surface, theyhaven't really.
So, having that externalvalidation, I think for
customers and the prospectivepeople who might want to work
with us, they can look and thinkwell, actually here are some
(15:55):
people aren't just saying it,they're obviously doing it as
well, and I think there's anincreasing number of businesses
who are just, you know, want todeal with other businesses, who
are ethical businesses as well,yeah, it becomes a whole other
community, doesn't it?
Speaker 1 (16:06):
a whole other sort of connectivity.
Now I have a question for youfrom as part of this, our trophy
holder season.
If you like, we're talking.
We're asking every single oneof our winners and commended to
ask another question of our nextguest.
Okay, so Chloe?
Chloe Fletcher, who's ourcommended mentor of the year,
(16:27):
has a question for you, which iswho is the person that has
changed your life?
Oh crikey, it's a big question,isn't it?
I thought it was easy.
When it went down, I'm likeit's actually quite a meaty one
it's changed my life.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Um, I'm gonna say something that's really cliched
and really obvious.
But my dad so I grew up and Iknow everybody does this sort of
you know grew up in a veryworking class background first
to go to university.
In my family, all of that sortof stuff there was, um, but my
dad, who left school when he was14, was an engineer but had
(17:08):
this real curiosity and thirstfor learning, which he's 86,
he's still alive now.
He's 86, he still has thatComes on a Sunday and we have a
massive discussion about allsorts of things every Sunday.
He's the most intelligent manI've ever met, with the least
qualifications, I've ever metwith the least qualifications,
and he really, you know, for meas a young girl growing up in
(17:35):
the seventies and eighties, hegave me the confidence and the
curiosity to think that I didn'thave anything to hold me back
and he has always been mybiggest cheerleader and he
supported me through some prettytough stuff In life I've had
quite a few challenges from allsorts of different perspectives.
He's always been there and Iknow people say, well, that's
(17:57):
what your dad should be like.
But you know this is we'retalking about a pit village in
the north of England where a lotof my friends' dads were just
waiting for their daughters toget married and have a baby or
go and work in an admin job andthey had very little aspiration
for them and my dad never didthat.
He was really.
(18:17):
He instilled in me about youknow, you need to do better, you
need to do.
He kept saying to me do betterthan I've done.
You can do better than I'vedone.
Don't stop there, go and domore.
Go and do more.
And and I think one of the mostrewarding things now is he is
just so.
He's so, he's so pleased thatwith the things that we're doing
and he's, you know that's to methat's just great.
(18:39):
So I know it's a bit cliche,but I wouldn't be doing what I'm
doing now if it wasn't for theencouragement and support that
I've had from him from a very,very early age.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
And that clearly, jill, is what motivates you to
give back and to support as well.
I think when you've had that inyour life, that person or those
people or those around it makesyou want to go.
You know what I'm going to paythis forward, I'm going to and I
know she says going to verycheesily leaping it.
Back to the awards, but I knowyou will be putting nominations
in for this year's NorthernPowering Awards and you said
(19:12):
something earlier about the bcorp and how you've got to.
You know, sort of consider the,the, the constitutional
arrangement with your colleagues, your, your, uh, your
stakeholders, your supply chain,everything that goes with it.
I'm one of the best.
I think it's the very first year.
I was talking to um, a guy froma big professional services
company in yorkshire, and hetook a tack at it that he had no
(19:35):
real sort of connectivity.
He wasn't the sponsor of thegender network or anything like
that, but his approach was right.
I'm going to break it down andI'm going to do so.
Many stakeholders, so manypeople that are related to our
business through community, someof our key to like a team, and
then individuals, but not theobvious ones.
I want to pick out the onesthat may never get that
nomination.
They may never get that.
(19:55):
And he did it from almost likea perspective of your dad, like
you just talked.
He did it with that at theheart and I think I've always
that's always resonated with me.
I think sometimes it's easy tothink sort of within and you're
immediate.
I feel like I'm going back toelection year now.
What way will you be voting?
What way will what sort of whatwould you say to anyone
(20:16):
considering nominating out there?
Speaker 2 (20:18):
I'd say yeah, I think that's a really good approach.
Actually, you know, don'tunderestimate the feeling that
somebody will get if they knowthat you think so much of them
that you're publicly willing tonominate them and say this
person's done a really good job.
(20:38):
And we run an internal sort oftears for peers, we call it,
where people nominate peoplewithin the business who've done
a really good job or done so.
They people are so excited andchuffed when they get that sort
of nomination.
Well, this is like on a granderscale, isn't it?
This is like you know, it's notjust within the firm.
We're saying you know, you'resuch a superstar that we want to
shout about it on a nationalbasis or a northern basis, but
(21:03):
you know, it gets nationalattention.
So I think it's look at thepeople in your business who need
a boost, who are doing a reallygood job and perhaps are just a
little bit under the radar.
The unsung heroes.
I love it.
I mean, I love it when awardsceremonies have an unsung heroes
(21:25):
bit, because I think sometimesthe people that are the face of
the business are not the peoplewho are making things happen,
and it's really important thatthe people that are actually
making things happen get therecognition.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah, not every superhero wears a cape.
Right?
Where is the trophy Jill?
Where is it?
It's in our reception.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
So we have a customer reception and we have a display
and it's in the middle becauseit's a nice short one.
So it's, you know, it looksgood.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Very beautiful and handcrafted.
Oh, thank you.
Thank you, jill.
Thank you so much and I knowthank you to chloe for your
question.
Jill is going to be giving me aquestion.
Uh, as we exit the today'spodcast, for me to pass on to
our next trophy holder, jill,thank you so much.
Congratulations on being ourSME winner for 2024 with Square
(22:18):
One Law.
Thank you, massivecongratulations on the B Corp.
I've got kind of B Corp envy,but alsoa brick wall is not
really sure where to go.
But I love the idea.
Not love the idea.
I think there's my direction.
My takeaway is I need to go lookat that framework.
But thank you so much.
Never a look at that framework,um, but thank you so much.
(22:38):
Uh, never, ever, have youraspiration dimmed, ever.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Thank you so much.
You're welcome, lovely to speakto you and thank you all of you
for joining us on the podcast.
We love your comments, we loveyou joining in the conversation
on all of the socials on twitter, instagram, on tiktok we are we
are power, underscore net.
And on facebook and LinkedIn weare power.
Thank you for joining us.
We will see you next week.
My name is Simone.
This is the we Are Powerpodcast.
(23:00):
What goes on media production?
Hello and welcome to the we Are Power podcast
Northern Power Women podcast.
For your career and your life,no matter what business you're
in.
Hello and welcome to the we ArePower podcast.
This is the podcast where weget to chat to some fantastic
(00:33):
role models, hear their greatstories, their top tips, their
guidance.
We're always looking, I alwaysfeel like I'm looking for the
tote bag moment, the momentwhere someone gives me that one,
that lovely nugget that youlike, that should be on a
t-shirt, should be on a postcard, should be on a tote bag, and
so we're always looking for that.
We want to be able to pass thaton to you, whether it's for
your career, your life, whateveryour adventures on.
(00:53):
That was what this podcast isabout, and this season that
we're in is all about revisiting, uh, back, way back to march
2024 and the northern PowerWomen Awards the eighth year of
the awards and we'd like to goback and find out what people
have been up to.
What did it feel like, wheredid the time go and what it has
(01:14):
meant to them.
And I'm delighted this weekthat we are welcoming our SME
2024 winner, square One Law.
And here we have the managingpartner, jill Hunter.
Jill, how are you?
I'm good.
Thanks, savoy, it's good totalk to you.
Oh, and it just seems such along time ago, doesn't it, since
we were in that, in that, inthat room in in manchester back
(01:35):
in march.
Um, what would you?
I know we we did a winner'spodcast and we always to ask
people what, what were the threewords that it meant to them?
What's the three words thatresonate with you about that
winning that award?
Oh, three words.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
That's a tough one.
So I think, recognition, youknow, recognition that actually
we do what we say.
We do because, particularly inmy industry, know, in legal,
everybody says the same stuff,um, but there's very few people
who actually do it.
Particularly around genderequality, people say, oh yes,
(02:10):
everybody's welcome, everybody'sincluded, and that's not true.
So I think for us it'srecognition, um celebration,
because, um, it's been.
We, we've undertaken a veryintensive cultural change
program over the last two yearsand across the business,
everybody has been involved inthat.
(02:32):
So it's a real celebration, notjust for me but for the whole
team.
And then I think opportunity isthe other one on.
So, you know, the opportunityto build on that and the
opportunity to, you know,attract new people who are, you
know, young women, who arethinking, oh, is this
professional really for me?
(02:52):
Um, I met a young girl justrecently who I'm sort of
mentoring, and she's atuniversity and her university
lecturer told her to abandon heraspirations of being in law
because she was a woman, shewouldn't get anywhere.
Oh, my life, this is 2024 andwe've still got people, male
lecturer, saying things likethat to young women.
(03:12):
So you know, for me it's theopportunity to go.
No, there are.
There are places where you will.
You will fit in.
There are places where therewill be just the same
opportunities for you, no matterwhat your gender is.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
And you just talked about having a massive
transformation cultural projectgoing on.
I think that's what we need inorganisations is our whether it
be our big global businesses,our SMEs and our micro to really
kind of build those businesseswith culture at the heart.
And that's I feel like I'veknown you for a while, you know,
since I remember way back satin a I think it was the
(03:46):
Malmaison in Newcastle all thoseyears ago and we had a great
round table with the wonderful.
We had Professor Jane Turner,the late Professor Jane Turner,
there, and I know there was apassion around that table around
culture.
And how do we shift that?
How do we shift and how do weextinct that dinosaur behavior?
What are your big learningsabout kind of this, the culture
(04:07):
project?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
there are lots of misconceptions, I think, around
around what you need to do forcultural change.
You don't need huge resource.
We, we are not.
You know where.
My business has 70 people in itand we do not have a head of hr
.
We do not have a head of HR.
We do not have a culturalchange director.
We do not have it.
You don't need that.
You don't need a huge amount ofmoney um to do it, and it does
(04:33):
have real business benefits.
Um, what you need is is thedesire and the will to want to
do it and to do it for the rightreasons.
Um, you know my passion for itcomes from my own experience as
a junior lawyer, coming throughand feeling like a you know I
hate using the expression but asquare peg in a round hole, you
know, not knowing where I fittedin, not worrying that I
(04:55):
wouldn't have opportunities, notjust because I was a woman, but
because of my background, mysexuality, all of these sorts of
things, and I just you know theteam here really determined
that we would create somewheredifferent, and that's what you
need.
I also am involved with theWest End Women and Girls Centre,
which is a brilliant centre inthe North East that supports
(05:18):
women and girls from verydeprived backgrounds and they
have no resource backgrounds andthey have no resource.
Look at what these people hereare achieving with absolutely
nothing, because they all have acommon purpose, common will,
and they're doing it forabsolutely the right reasons.
Sorry, that's a really longanswer to your question.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
No, but I think the takeaway from that is it like
you say, it doesn't have to havehuge resource and huge money,
it's all about will.
Isn isn't it all willing and agood old cracking northern like
cracking on, isn't it?
I suppose it is at the heart ofit and I know we've really been
sort of so keen to sort ofspread the love of northern
power women across from one sideof the pennines to the other,
(05:59):
and I'm always really sort ofbuoyed by the enthusiasm of
which the awards and the widercommunity are met from the North
East.
So it was great.
I think we had a record numberof North East winners and
commended and future list gamechanger list this year.
Is it important to be part of asort of a bigger community like
(06:20):
this?
That feels like a loadedquestion, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (06:23):
You know, I think it can be.
Particularly if you're a womanleader in business, it can be
quite a lonely place.
I'm very lucky that, you know,my entire senior management team
are women, so I have my littlecommunity here.
But it's really good to connectwith other women leaders who
(06:44):
are also passionate about thesame things that you're
passionate about and share ideas.
And that's why I've gotinvolved with the mentoring
program, not just because Ithink I can bestow knowledge
upon people, but it's really asort of two-way process and I'm
learning from somebody who hascompletely different experiences
than me, different outlook onlife, different perspectives,
(07:07):
but we have a common desire tocreate good places of work for
all people.
And I think some of the culturalstuff you know people get hung
up on initiatives and things.
At the end of the day, it'sabout treating people well and
it's about being fair and it'sabout, yes, you can still make
difficult decisions, but you cando it with kindness and you can
(07:27):
do it with respect.
So I think it's really goodjust to have that ability to
come together and shareexperiences and share challenges
and get support, and that's thebenefit that I think Northern
Power Women has for me.
You know, the WhatsApp group issomething that you can just
jump onto and stick a request on.
(07:49):
Has anybody got this?
And it's all sorts of randomstuff, isn't it From you know?
Does anybody know where I canget some brilliant period pants?
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yeah, exactly, it's like Swap Shop.
Do you know Swap Shop of itsday?
Some of our listeners probablywon't, and that's probably me
showing myself on peer, but itis that I always think, if we
don't know, we know a woman orman who can is always my.
And those WhatsApp groups thatwe talk about, because it was
always like let's, let's, havemore seats at these tables and
then during the, the pandemic,we sort of we we took these
(08:21):
conversations into each of theregions and, um, I did a thing
about 24, 28 of them's a lot andit was brilliant, because every
single region has is led byobviously different people,
different cultures, differentrequirements, different passions
(08:42):
, and it was really, it wasfabulous, fascinating as to what
we could do and what we couldenable and, uh.
So it was only a few weeks agothat I know I dropped uh,
because we always love to thecelebration all year round, not
just for the awards and the factthat I'd seen that you had
posted that square one law hasbecome a b corp, uh, which is a
flipping big deal, isn't it?
(09:03):
It's something that I look atin awe and think like, for just
years and years I've gone, thatis just something I would aspire
to do for our business, but itseems terrifying For those who
aren't aware.
Can you summarize B Corp andthen we'll go into how you made
it happen?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah.
So B Corp is a movement thatoriginally came from the US and
what it's about is about wantingto have a better, more ethical
business where you balancepurpose and profit.
So we talk about people, planetand profit all having equal
(09:45):
importance in the business.
So it's an externalaccreditation, but it's not,
like you know, one of thesewhere you fill out a form but
you tick some boxes and then youget accreditation or you just
put a few policies in place andyou're sorted.
It's quite a rigorous process,so it has real meaning.
And the other thing it does isit provides you with a framework
.
So I think it's quite dauntingsometimes if you are going into
(10:06):
a cultural change.
You know.
You know you want to bedifferent, you know you want to
do something differently, youwant to improve your business,
particularly from an ethicalpoint of view.
Where do you start?
So you know there's theenvironment, there's your people
, there's your customers,there's your governance, there's
all of these things, and BCorps provides a framework for
that.
So you don't even if you don'twant to go through the whole
bcops journey you can use theirassessment tool to assess your
(10:31):
business and see how it wouldstack up, and it gives you a
framework and you go oh actually, I know a handful about that,
we need to, we need to look atthat.
Um, oh no, I don't know aboutthat part of my business.
We need to do some work on that.
So I think you know, whetheryou go through the process or
not, it's a really goodframework for people to use if
you want to be a better business.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
I love that, and how long did it take.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Well, it takes as long as you, not as long as you
want it to, but you know it canbe.
It can be done quite rapidly.
But we did it over two yearsbecause what I wanted to do was
not to do it from a box tickingpoint of view, not to just get
the accreditation.
I wanted it to be embedded inthe business um.
(11:15):
One of the things, one of therequirements, is that you change
your constitution so youacknowledge within your
constitution formally that youwill um consider the interests
of all of your stakeholders,whether it's customers,
suppliers, the community.
That you will consider theinterests of all of your
stakeholders, whether it'scustomers, suppliers, the
community that you operate in,your people, your shareholders
if you've got them, you willconsider all of their interests
(11:38):
when you make decisions.
And you have to change yourconstitution to do that and a
lot of people leave that rightto the end.
What was the first thing we did?
Was we changed that.
We made the commitment and said, right, we're going to do this.
So it's got to be part of ourconstitution from the start.
Whether or not we get theaccreditation is separate.
Because we think it's important, we did that.
(11:59):
So that happened two years ago,and then we made sure that we
made the changes that we neededalong the way so that we knew
that by the time we weresubmitting, we had all the
evidence to support that yes, wedo do all of these things and
we do them properly and not justfor the sake of it and to get
an accreditation.
(12:19):
So we took two years to do it.
The actual assessment processonce you submit, you get
allocated an assessor who sortof takes you through the initial
stages and just just sort ofsense check some of the
questions that you've answered.
Because there's a lot ofquestions to answer and some of
them are quite in detail andvery you have to think hard
(12:40):
about how you answer them.
They're not easy questions.
And so you have an assessor whohelps you through that initial
stage and that's two or threemonths.
And then you move on toverification, which is where
you're asked for evidence on notevery single question but a lot
of the questions, and theevidence is usually over a
five-year period.
(13:00):
So there's a lot of informationthat you have to pull together.
And then, once you go throughthat final point is you have an
interview.
Um, so you're interviewed by anassessor to just to make, just
to make sure that you aregenuine and it's not just
information that you've pulledtogether for the purposes of b
(13:20):
corps and it doesn't actuallyform part of the business.
Um, and then, once you're fullyverified, you sign an agreement
.
There's quite a big disclosureprocess as well, so you have to
look at your customer base,because there are a number of
controversial industries thatyou can't be involved in.
Some of them are obvious ones,like you know the production of
(13:41):
pornography and things like that, but also tobacco industry,
gambling.
There's quite a lot ofindustries that you have to be
very careful of and you have tomake an assessment.
So we brought in an ethicalclient policy.
So every time we get a newcustomer, we assess whether they
are somebody who we want towork with, who we should work
with.
So it does make fundamentalchange to your business.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
It's not something to go in from a lighthearted point
of view and think, well, thiswill be good to put on our
website yeah, I was going to saybecause that's that's what I'm
always fascinated, because Iknow how robust it is and how
how it appears to be, and andthe people I know who've gone
through other businesses that Iknow been successful.
Um, have you already felt achange within sort of the, the
(14:23):
approach, either your existingclients or your new clients, or
even your actual teams, yourcolleagues?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yes, I think we've just recently been accredited
Everybody.
We kept them up to date withthe journey.
But internally, what we'redoing now is we're running
sessions with people, becausethis isn't the end of the
journey.
This is the start ofimprovement.
So one of the really goodthings you get when you get your
accreditation is an improvementsuggestion areas that you can
improve.
So it's never done right, it'snever done, never done, and
(14:52):
you're accredited every threeyears.
So we're just doing workshopswith our people at the moment
about what each of those areaswhere we need to improve so we
can get ideas from the businessas to how we can do it in terms
of customers and clients andthings.
In terms of customers andclients and things, we've
already become part of acommunity as a B Corp.
(15:12):
There are social events, there'sa conference, there's all of
that sort of stuff.
So again, it's that communitything where you're meeting
like-minded people and we'refinding people that we want to
work with and people want towork with us.
So it's great from that pointof view as well.
You are part of a meaningfulcommunity and I think you know,
as I said earlier, there are somany people who say they are
(15:34):
doing good stuff, but actuallythe reality is they're not.
I mean, law firms are abrilliant example of that.
They all think they've gotamazing cultures and when you
scratch the surface, theyhaven't really.
So, having that externalvalidation, I think for
customers and the prospectivepeople who might want to work
with us, they can look and thinkwell, actually here are some
(15:55):
people aren't just saying it,they're obviously doing it as
well, and I think there's anincreasing number of businesses
who are just, you know, want todeal with other businesses, who
are ethical businesses as well,yeah, it becomes a whole other
community, doesn't it?
Speaker 1 (16:06):
a whole other sort of connectivity.
Now I have a question for youfrom as part of this, our trophy
holder season.
If you like, we're talking.
We're asking every single oneof our winners and commended to
ask another question of our nextguest.
Okay, so Chloe?
Chloe Fletcher, who's ourcommended mentor of the year,
(16:27):
has a question for you, which iswho is the person that has
changed your life?
Oh crikey, it's a big question,isn't it?
I thought it was easy.
When it went down, I'm likeit's actually quite a meaty one
it's changed my life.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Um, I'm gonna say something that's really cliched
and really obvious.
But my dad so I grew up and Iknow everybody does this sort of
you know grew up in a veryworking class background first
to go to university.
In my family, all of that sortof stuff there was, um, but my
dad, who left school when he was14, was an engineer but had
(17:08):
this real curiosity and thirstfor learning, which he's 86,
he's still alive now.
He's 86, he still has thatComes on a Sunday and we have a
massive discussion about allsorts of things every Sunday.
He's the most intelligent manI've ever met, with the least
qualifications, I've ever metwith the least qualifications,
and he really, you know, for meas a young girl growing up in
(17:35):
the seventies and eighties, hegave me the confidence and the
curiosity to think that I didn'thave anything to hold me back
and he has always been mybiggest cheerleader and he
supported me through some prettytough stuff In life I've had
quite a few challenges from allsorts of different perspectives.
He's always been there and Iknow people say, well, that's
(17:57):
what your dad should be like.
But you know this is we'retalking about a pit village in
the north of England where a lotof my friends' dads were just
waiting for their daughters toget married and have a baby or
go and work in an admin job andthey had very little aspiration
for them and my dad never didthat.
He was really.
(18:17):
He instilled in me about youknow, you need to do better, you
need to do.
He kept saying to me do betterthan I've done.
You can do better than I'vedone.
Don't stop there, go and domore.
Go and do more.
And and I think one of the mostrewarding things now is he is
just so.
He's so, he's so pleased thatwith the things that we're doing
and he's, you know that's to methat's just great.
(18:39):
So I know it's a bit cliche,but I wouldn't be doing what I'm
doing now if it wasn't for theencouragement and support that
I've had from him from a very,very early age.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
And that clearly, jill, is what motivates you to
give back and to support as well.
I think when you've had that inyour life, that person or those
people or those around it makesyou want to go.
You know what I'm going to paythis forward, I'm going to and I
know she says going to verycheesily leaping it.
Back to the awards, but I knowyou will be putting nominations
in for this year's NorthernPowering Awards and you said
(19:12):
something earlier about the bcorp and how you've got to.
You know, sort of consider the,the, the constitutional
arrangement with your colleagues, your, your, uh, your
stakeholders, your supply chain,everything that goes with it.
I'm one of the best.
I think it's the very first year.
I was talking to um, a guy froma big professional services
company in yorkshire, and hetook a tack at it that he had no
(19:35):
real sort of connectivity.
He wasn't the sponsor of thegender network or anything like
that, but his approach was right.
I'm going to break it down andI'm going to do so.
Many stakeholders, so manypeople that are related to our
business through community, someof our key to like a team, and
then individuals, but not theobvious ones.
I want to pick out the onesthat may never get that
nomination.
They may never get that.
(19:55):
And he did it from almost likea perspective of your dad, like
you just talked.
He did it with that at theheart and I think I've always
that's always resonated with me.
I think sometimes it's easy tothink sort of within and you're
immediate.
I feel like I'm going back toelection year now.
What way will you be voting?
What way will what sort of whatwould you say to anyone
(20:16):
considering nominating out there?
Speaker 2 (20:18):
I'd say yeah, I think that's a really good approach.
Actually, you know, don'tunderestimate the feeling that
somebody will get if they knowthat you think so much of them
that you're publicly willing tonominate them and say this
person's done a really good job.
(20:38):
And we run an internal sort oftears for peers, we call it,
where people nominate peoplewithin the business who've done
a really good job or done so.
They people are so excited andchuffed when they get that sort
of nomination.
Well, this is like on a granderscale, isn't it?
This is like you know, it's notjust within the firm.
We're saying you know, you'resuch a superstar that we want to
shout about it on a nationalbasis or a northern basis, but
(21:03):
you know, it gets nationalattention.
So I think it's look at thepeople in your business who need
a boost, who are doing a reallygood job and perhaps are just a
little bit under the radar.
The unsung heroes.
I love it.
I mean, I love it when awardsceremonies have an unsung heroes
(21:25):
bit, because I think sometimesthe people that are the face of
the business are not the peoplewho are making things happen,
and it's really important thatthe people that are actually
making things happen get therecognition.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah, not every superhero wears a cape.
Right?
Where is the trophy Jill?
Where is it?
It's in our reception.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
So we have a customer reception and we have a display
and it's in the middle becauseit's a nice short one.
So it's, you know, it looksgood.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Very beautiful and handcrafted.
Oh, thank you.
Thank you, jill.
Thank you so much and I knowthank you to chloe for your
question.
Jill is going to be giving me aquestion.
Uh, as we exit the today'spodcast, for me to pass on to
our next trophy holder, jill,thank you so much.
Congratulations on being ourSME winner for 2024 with Square
(22:18):
One Law.
Thank you, massivecongratulations on the B Corp.
I've got kind of B Corp envy,but alsoa brick wall is not
really sure where to go.
But I love the idea.
Not love the idea.
I think there's my direction.
My takeaway is I need to go lookat that framework.
But thank you so much.
Never a look at that framework,um, but thank you so much.
(22:38):
Uh, never, ever, have youraspiration dimmed, ever.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Thank you so much.
You're welcome, lovely to speakto you and thank you all of you
for joining us on the podcast.
We love your comments, we loveyou joining in the conversation
on all of the socials on twitter, instagram, on tiktok we are we
are power, underscore net.
And on facebook and LinkedIn weare power.
Thank you for joining us.
We will see you next week.
My name is Simone.
This is the we Are Powerpodcast.
(23:00):
What goes on media production?
Popular Podcasts
Good Game with Sarah Spain
Good Game is your one-stop shop for the biggest stories in women’s sports. Every day, host Sarah Spain gives you the stories, stakes, stars and stats to keep up with your favorite women’s teams, leagues and athletes. Through thoughtful insight, witty banter, and an all around good time, Sarah and friends break down the latest news, talk about the games you can’t miss, and debate the issues of the day. Don’t miss interviews with the people of the moment, whether they be athletes, coaches, reporters, or celebrity fans.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Crime Junkie
If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people.