November 10, 2025 • 33 mins
The brilliant Emma Preston and Maxwell Crowson join the We Are PoWEr Podcast – bringing honesty, courage, and compassion to a powerful conversation about what real inclusion looks and feels like in everyday life. As part of Manchester Airports Group, Emma and Max are helping shape a culture where colleagues and travelers alike can breathe, belong, and be their authentic selves.
From the security queue to the departure gate, they show how inclusion isn’t about grand gestures – it’s built through small, consistent actions. A smile, a pronoun badge, a leader who listens – all signals that turn workplaces from promises of belonging into lived experiences of safety and respect.
Emma shares her remarkable journey from darkness to light, opening up about surviving two suicide attempts and the turning point that began when someone simply said, “let me help.” Her story of resilience and self-acceptance – learning to stop being the “best transgender woman” and start being the best Emma – is both powerful and deeply human.
Max brings his perspective as a dad through adoption, exploring how confidence at work and home allows his son to face tough questions with pride. Together, they reflect on the courage it takes to bring your full self to work, to challenge bias, and to choose employers and leaders who truly see you.
Through their work with Fly with Pride, Emma and Max are turning policy into practice – offering guidance, allyship, and visibility that goes beyond parades and posters. Their message is simple but profound: inclusion doesn’t start with a strategy, it starts with people showing up.
In this episode:
From survival to self-acceptance: Emma’s journey to living authentically
Parenting, pride, and identity: Max’s experience as an adoptive dad
What inclusion really feels like day to day
Why small signals create big impact at work and in travel
Turning equity from posters into practice through Fly with Pride
How leaders can listen, learn, and make space for others to thrive
Find out more about We Are PoWEr here. 💫
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
This episode is part of our mini podcast and webinar
series in partnership withManchester Airports Group, where
we'll be exploring belonging,representation, and inclusion.
Don't forget to check out therest of the series for more real
stories and practical insights.
(00:24):
Well, welcome to today's episodewhere we are going to have an
amazing conversation discussingLGBTQ at work and why inclusion
really matters.
And I'm delighted to be joinedby Emma Preston, studied in
Preston, but lives in Blackburn,right?
No.
No.
Did I get that done?
No, that's what it says on yourLinkedIn profile.
(00:46):
I'm sure it does.
No, it doesn't.
It says Tell me, Emma.
SPEAKER_02 (00:50):
Names Preston, worked in worked in Preston,
studied in Preston, born inBlackburn.
SPEAKER_00 (00:58):
Oh, see, now that's going to dispel the whole myth
of my photographic memory.
That's destroyed it.
Anyway, welcome Emma.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04):
Thank you very much.
It's nice to be here.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (01:06):
And welcome, Max Corrison, as well.
Thank you so much for joining mefrom Manchester Airports group
today.
Now, how I feel like this isgoing to be impossible.
Can you explain or describe Maxin a sentence or two?
SPEAKER_02 (01:23):
Energetic, excitable, determined, um,
driven, and just a really goodmate.
SPEAKER_00 (01:30):
Oh.
Feel in the love already in thepod.
Is that Tana?
SPEAKER_03 (01:35):
Outside.
Later, later.
SPEAKER_00 (01:37):
Max.
SPEAKER_03 (01:37):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
Can you reciprocate now for our Emma?
Because she's been good anddecent to you.
SPEAKER_03 (01:42):
How do I follow that, Emma?
Probably with the truth.
And that is that you are one ofthe most passionate people that
I have ever met.
You are tenacious, you aredriven, and you are one of a
kind.
You truly are a true advocatefor LGBTQIA plus rights.
(02:03):
And you are my go-to person if Ineed anything.
So thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (02:07):
Now I can feel LinkedIn profiles being updated
as we speak.
Don't forget, born in Preston,made in Preston, not in
Blackburn.
But anyway, we're going.
How would you describe your rolein sort of plain speak?
Because I think when you work atsomewhere like Manchester
Airports Group, always been mydream job, by the way, putting
that out there.
Always wanted to, such anenvironment, isn't it?
(02:28):
You've got so many differentwalks of life across the
communities, across thedifferent establishments and
units and jobs probably we don'teven know exist.
How would you describe your jobin a um a few words?
SPEAKER_02 (02:41):
So am I going first?
Yeah.
So my job is just to keep planesin the sky.
But I I I've got a retailbackground.
Well, in fact, I'm very, veryold.
I've got a background ineverything.
And for me, customer services iseverything.
So I don't want people to thinkabout I just need to get through
security and then I'm onholiday.
(03:03):
I actually want people to wantto come through security.
So I just live my life with abig massive smile on my face and
just hope that I can just takethe Mickey out of passengers and
enjoy life and just send them onthe merry way with a big smile.
SPEAKER_00 (03:16):
And and to be honest, a smile is contagious,
right?
Isn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (03:18):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (03:19):
And it's like a mirror.
SPEAKER_02 (03:20):
Definitely, definitely.
That's all I think is I justwant to keep planes in the sky
and keep everybody happy.
SPEAKER_00 (03:27):
Love that.
She does a good job at it aswell.
Thank you.
Max, what about you?
What's your your role and howwould you describe it?
SPEAKER_03 (03:34):
So I'm I'm officially the world record
holder for the world's longestjob title.
So I'll I'll take that.
Um I am so officially the headof strategy, insights, and
governance at East MidlandsAirport.
So effectively, I look afterboth the short and long-term
strategy for both our customersand our cargo operation.
Um and I also have a hold on thedata that we use.
(03:57):
So just making sure that that'saccurate, that it's used
effectively from an operationalside and also from a forecasting
perspective.
Um and then governance, which isthe lovely bit that they've just
popped on the end, um, is justeffectively making sure that
information can be disseminatedboth up, across, and down the
business to the people that needit at the right time and that
it's accurate as well.
SPEAKER_00 (04:16):
So you're making everyone smile, keeping the
planes in the air, and you'rekeeping everyone communicated
with and informed, right?
SPEAKER_01 (04:22):
Yes, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (04:23):
Easy jobs, right?
So we started that you've gottwo very simple jobs.
So you've got loads of time forthe side hustle, right?
So, but what is when we talkabout inclusion, because it's
different things to differentpeople, and so it should be
because we are all different,but what does it look and feel
like in everyday working life?
And I'll start with you, Max.
SPEAKER_03 (04:43):
So, inclusion for me is just making sure that there's
a space for everybody.
Um, so I always look atinclusion off the basis of
equity, and there's there's afabulous um visualization of
equity with people looking overa fence.
I don't know if you've ever seenit, um, and there's a really
tall person, there's amedium-high person and a short
person.
Equality is giving everybody thesame box.
(05:03):
So they could so the tall personsees even higher up, the one in
the middle can see a little bitmore, and the person who's
really short at the end stillcan't see.
Um, and for me, what inclusionis is that tall person stepping
off that box that they've beengiven and giving that extra box
to the shorter person so thateverybody can see.
And what what we need to do as abusiness and as an employee is
(05:29):
to encourage that inclusion.
So by sharing your box, ifyou've got that privilege,
giving it to someone else andjust making sure that
everybody's included and there'sa space for all within the
organization.
SPEAKER_00 (05:39):
And you're very heavily part of the community
group across the airports group.
How has been part of this sortof shaped your work environment?
We already know that you're thesmiley giver and receiver.
SPEAKER_02 (05:52):
Yeah, I mean, I I really enjoy being part of a
greater, wider community.
And um I I do echo everythingthat Max has said, which is not
a surprise really, that we boththink very similar.
Um and for me it's it's aboutjust trying to include people on
(06:16):
their wavelength rather thantrying to include people at your
wavelength, so that people feellike they're involved and um
have a place in society anddon't feel the other side
excluded.
Um, I have no idea if I'veanswered your question there,
but it felt good to me.
SPEAKER_00 (06:35):
But actually, one of the things I love, you've
described life as something youlive to breathe, not breathe to
live.
Talk me through where that hascome from.
SPEAKER_02 (06:46):
Yeah, so this harps back to the past when I'm uh I'm
two-time uh attempt at uh takingmy own life, suicide.
And one was a really good orvery bad attempt, if you if you
know what I mean, and the otherone was there wasn't so much
behind it.
(07:06):
When I blossomed out of thereand people helped me, um, I
realized that there was a wholelife that I wasn't experiencing,
and I was allowing things andothers to suck the life out of
me.
So now I got up every morningand I cannot wait to get into
(07:29):
that day.
That's if I actually sleep.
I don't think I actually sleep,but there was a time when I was
breathing just to get throughthe day.
Uh, but that them days are longgone now.
Everything for me now is about,I believe I've got a hundred
years ahead of me, which will begood because that'll make me the
oldest person on earth, 160.
(07:50):
But I I just want to live lifeto the max.
And how can I do that if I amjust breathing to live?
SPEAKER_00 (07:59):
But what broke that cycle?
SPEAKER_02 (08:01):
People, other people.
Um, so I when people wereoffering to help when I was at
the depths of despair and I wasfacing the abyss, I I saw I saw
so much darkness that I couldn'tI couldn't think that people
(08:21):
were trying to help me.
I just thought they wereoffering charity and I didn't
want to take any charity.
But then one day I broke down somuch and somebody said, I need
to help you.
And I went, Yes, please.
And then I saw a ray of light.
So whenever I'm speaking onstage or things like that, I
always say, in the darkestabyss, there is always a ray of
(08:42):
light.
And that ray of light might bejust that one person who says,
Let me help you.
And they're not offeringcharity, they actually just want
to help you.
But the moment everythingchanged was when I stopped
trying to be the besttransgender woman I could be and
started being the best EmmaPresson I could be.
And then in that moment I feltlike a totally different person.
SPEAKER_00 (09:04):
And was that over a long period of time?
Because that's that seems likevery affirmative action, but
that doesn't happen overnight,doesn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (09:13):
No, it doesn't.
It it it was.
Um although the the wholetransgender person, Emma
Preston, that was that was likein an instant, you know.
I just thought, oh, I've got tothink differently here because I
am me.
But the whole cycle wasnightmarish.
It was it was years because I Ifelt alone.
(09:34):
I'd been um I'd been segregatedfrom society just for being who
I am.
I had um I'd chosen to live alife that I felt was very
selfish, and I'd taken myselfaway from the family.
Well, the family my my partnerat the time was, you know,
(09:57):
decided time was up, and thatmeant I had to leave for family
way, and that was verydifficult.
Uh so yes, it was it was yearsof getting myself back on track.
unknown (10:07):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (10:08):
And Max, you talk really openly about your
identity uh and and your role asa parent.
How's being a dab throughadoption, isn't it?
I think how's that influenceyour perspective?
SPEAKER_03 (10:21):
So I always feel that I need to be the strongest
advocate for myself and myfamily, because that will
reflect on my child.
Um, so a prime example, so itwas Mother's Day at school, and
my little boy he was making acard for his grandma, um,
because obviously there is adistinct absence of mother in
(10:44):
our family unit.
So um a child turned around tohim and was like, You don't have
a mummy.
And for some children, theywould really take that and that
would really impact them.
But because we've built mylittle boy up to be so confident
and so self-assured with hisfamily unit and about the fact
that he has two dads, um, heturned around and he was like,
Yes, I do.
(11:05):
I've got a birth mum, but I'vealso got two dads that love me
very, very much.
And for me, that is himreflecting on his positive
identity that we've brought upabout his family unit.
And that gives me so much pridebecause that's rubbed off and he
will take that forward now.
So, yeah, for me, it's reallyimportant that I'm confident in
(11:28):
my identity and I can answer anyquestions that he has because he
does have questions.
We we are a different family,and that's okay, but it's just
giving him the confidence to beable to take that on board and
to really own that, and he does.
SPEAKER_00 (11:42):
And his name?
SPEAKER_03 (11:43):
His name's Frankie.
SPEAKER_00 (11:44):
Frankie, big high five to Frankie.
Frankie's.
Very proud of your dad.
Done a great job on the sofahere today.
Is there been a time during yourcareer?
So we're talking work life now,where being LGBTQI plus has felt
like a barrier.
SPEAKER_03 (12:03):
Um for me personally, um, no.
Um just because so when I wasgoing through my coming out
process, that was all throughuniversity, um, if you like.
And by the time I'd finisheduniversity, I was very
self-assured and I was veryconfident in who I was as a
person.
I was still, you know, figuringstuff out, but I was very
(12:23):
confident that I was I was a gayman.
Um and for me, whenever I go toa job interview, um, one of the
first questions, or well, notthe first questions, um, but I
will always put into theinterview at some point that I
am gay.
So whether that is through sortof my involvement with LGBTQA
plus charities or through LGBTQIplus networks, um, or you know,
(12:45):
having having a same-sexpartner, I will always bring it
up and I always try andascertain their reaction back to
me.
And if their reaction is kind ofall brush shut under the carpet,
move on quickly, that says to methat this place isn't right for
me.
So I've always been reallycareful and selective about
where I have applied to andwhere I have taken jobs.
And um, credit to Mag, you know,when when I went for that
(13:09):
interview, um, they kind of cameback and they're like, that's
amazing.
Did you know we've got thisnetwork?
Did you know we've got this?
You can get involved in this.
And for me, I was like, okay,I'm home and I'm happy.
So I've I've never really hadthat sort of discrimination
because I've always been reallyselective about where I have
chosen to work.
SPEAKER_00 (13:25):
Because it's really important, isn't it?
That fit is important.
We spend a long time in yourwork environment.
Emma, you've come straight froma shift straight here to the
studio, haven't you?
I think.
But you have worked in differentsectors.
You said that earlier on.
In fact, I think pretty much thesector you haven't worked in,
you know.
But what have you noticed sortof differences?
I know time will be a factor aswell, but have you noticed sort
(13:47):
of differences from whether itbe across retail, hospitality,
which also sit within theairport as well.
SPEAKER_02 (13:52):
But yeah, yeah, uh there are differences, however,
I um saw a distribution I workedin, and that was when my
dysphoria came to the front.
Um, so it it the only thing itimpacted there was the way I
behaved more than anything, andI was quite irrational at the
(14:13):
time.
In retail, I I never really feltany kind of angst.
In fact, it played in my favourbecause I got on Radio 5 Live
with uh Rachel Byrd and loads,it was great.
And then I I then I I work intelevision now for the BBC.
I work at Wimbledon, and theythat's absolutely brilliant.
(14:34):
Everybody embraces great.
At the airport, I can honestlysay without a shadow of a doubt,
that I have been totallyembraced and really appreciated,
but it's very difficult not tobecause I'm extremely loud,
aren't I?
And I'm very flamboyant and verygregarious and over the top.
Um words for it.
(14:56):
So they are um so I I I love howMaggas embraced me and I
embraced well, it it was atwo-way thing, and there was no
talk about it, it just happened.
Um so I I feel reallyappreciated.
Is there any difference betweenthem all?
(15:17):
I don't know, and I don't reallycare.
Um, I sort of am just me now,and whatever darkness I had in
the past, I sort of forgottenabout because I just smile my
way through life now, and all Ido is I earn loads of money and
go skiing.
It's great.
SPEAKER_00 (15:32):
Skiing, Wimbledon, yeah, yeah, you know, poker.
Yeah, okay, we haven't got thatanyway, but um but it strikes me
that you because there's no planthat comes with this, but it
strikes me that there seems tobe a two-way relationship with
your role within ManchesterAirport Group, right?
You've you said this is who Iam, I'm this, I'm you use the
(15:55):
word just.
We try to ban the word just,you're especially not just
anything.
Um, but I think is thatsomething other organizations
can learn from by having thattwo-way dialogue to say, this is
who I am, and actually, if itdoesn't fit, it's okay.
It might have been the bestthing I ever wanted to do, or
role or promotion or job in theworld.
But it's important to fit, it'sreally important, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03 (16:19):
Yeah, definitely.
I think if you want people tobring their true selves to work
and to be comfortable in sharingtheir ideas and about just being
who they are, you need toembrace them as much as they're
embracing you.
And it it is that two-waystreet.
How do you feel about that?
Yeah, I I I agree totally.
SPEAKER_02 (16:35):
Um, we've got we've got people um at the same level,
my peers, uh superiors, um, evenright to the very top to uh to
Chris, who is the managingdirector, who are so embracing
and so supportive and appreciateum me and I'm sure Max and
(16:58):
everybody else.
And and like if there has been achallenge and there are
challenges, let's not let's notbeat around the bush.
It's not all rosy in the garden,but the except the neuron shift,
of course.
Yeah, of course.
But no, but in all seriousness,um when people at at that level
um give their time, you knowwhat that's fantastic, isn't it?
(17:25):
And and that tells me that thereis a rainbow, um, bright
sunshine in the future.
We've just got to get to it.
SPEAKER_00 (17:36):
And what because there'll be people either
watching, listening, that areeither from within the airport
group or in another organizationor who maybe not ready to share
or to come out or to be theircomplete selves.
What makes that workplace safe?
We talked about the two-way, thefact that your the reaction that
(17:56):
you had was, well, we've gotthis and we've got this, and
it's enthusiastic.
SPEAKER_02 (17:59):
It's got to be a robust background, hasn't there?
There's got to be a solidstructure behind it.
You've got to have people thatare dedicated to making a
difference.
Um, there's a lady of yourorganization called Alicia
McDonnell, and she is a trueadvocate for getting stuff done
and doesn't sit in thebackground, doesn't mess around.
(18:23):
If there's a problem, the doorsopen, and you can talk and you
can get stuff done.
Yeah.
It's not easy, and you know,it's not a case of, oh, let's
just go down the tick list.
You know, some things you haveto jump through lots and lots of
hoops, but you can get there,can't you?
SPEAKER_03 (18:40):
Yeah, 100%.
And I think as well about thatpiece around coming out, it's
just a recognition that it'svery personal to every single
person.
So sometimes, you know, someonecoming out wants that holistic
support.
They want people to wrap aroundthem, they want to get involved,
they want to be part of ourcolleague resource groups or our
colleague communities, um, andthey want to talk to people.
(19:03):
Whereas some people who are juststarting out that coming out
process, they might just want alittle flag up at Pride Month
that just kind of gives them anod and just lets them know that
this is a safe space for you.
And when you're ready, we'reready.
Um, and tiny, tiny things, youknow, such as, you know, if
you've got uh a line manager andyou know they start talking to
you about your partner or theirpartner, that inclusive language
(19:25):
just lets them know it's just abit of a small pat on the back
to say, when you're ready, we'reready.
And it's little things like thatthat really make a big
difference.
SPEAKER_00 (19:33):
And is always that balance because of having in
action versus policy?
Because you need policy andstrategies, and you're in that
department as well, aren't you,Ran?
Making that happen.
And and I know Alicia is leadinga lot, you'll be able to catch
up with Alicia on on her podcastas well.
She'll be joining us later inthe series as well.
Um, but how do you how do youmake it not just a policy that
(19:56):
sits over here?
And and you've talked about someof the top tips already.
It's it's language.
Yeah.
It's but any anything else thatyou think actually that's some
of the simple things.
Because some people think it'sreally difficult sometimes.
Sometimes it's those simplethings, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01 (20:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:11):
I mean, um it's sometimes I know there's a
famous phrase, don't sweat thesmall stuff, but actually
sometimes, especially fortransgender people, it is the
small stuff that makes a massivedifference.
And no problem is too large ortoo small um for the EDI team
(20:34):
and for Chris and for everybodyaround that directorship.
And that that makes me feelcomfortable comfortable.
I think that's fair, innit?
Yeah.
Uh comfortable that even ifstuff doesn't get done today,
there's always a tomorrow.
Yeah.
Um, I I don't look, I don'tthink as a transgender woman, I
(20:59):
am going to get everythingsorted.
In fact, I don't think it willbe sorted in my lifetime, but
it's what I do now for thosecoming ahead of me, you know,
over 20 somethings that aretransgender at the airport, that
they feel like, okay, I seeEmma, yeah, things are getting,
(21:20):
things are happening.
That's what I think.
SPEAKER_00 (21:22):
And do you both identify as role models?
SPEAKER_02 (21:24):
Oh god, no.
Jesus, I hope nobody follows me.
SPEAKER_00 (21:30):
Because you're blazer trail, right?
You've created a path, you'veforged a pathway.
Yourself too, role model.
I'm thinking, yeah, but otherpeople are too, right?
And that's the whole point ofyou be you, right?
SPEAKER_03 (21:42):
Yes, absolutely.
And I think Yes is the answer,Emma.
I'll tell you, you are a rolemodel because I I look up to
you.
Um, I think if you can be abeacon of hope or if you can be
um a symbol to somebodysomewhere, I think that's a
fantastic thing to be.
So if someone can look up to mein the business and say, Do you
(22:03):
know what?
I can um I can identify withthat person.
I'm similar to him in some way.
I mean, poor people, but if theycan identify with me and say,
well, he's he's made it, he's atthat level.
I actually I can see myselfthere.
Um, I think I would hope that Iwas a role model, and I hope
that I use my voice and myprivilege in a way that really
(22:24):
opens the door for other peopleto walk through.
SPEAKER_00 (22:27):
And have you found that because you lead uh Fly
with Pride, don't you, at EastMidlands Airport?
SPEAKER_03 (22:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (22:31):
What have you seen that change?
I see a big smile comes to yourface when we talk about this.
SPEAKER_03 (22:35):
Yeah, so um when I first joined East Midlands
Airport, um, which was aroundthree years ago now, there was a
Fly with Pride network, but ithadn't really got off the ground
and we didn't really sort oflead forward with it.
Um, but since I joined, um Ispoke to my manager at the time
and I was like, look, I reallywant to get involved in this.
There's a lot that we can dohere.
Um, and since then it's justgone from strength to strength.
(22:58):
So um we've done things likewe've attended Nottingham Pride
for the first time, and we'vedone it now for three years in a
row.
Um we've got a local committeethat we've built up that are
there to not only support ourcolleagues but also to help
inform policies, procedures,practices that we have in the
business.
Um, and yeah, so I I chair it,but I can't take credit for all
of you know all of the resultsbecause it's the fantastic
(23:21):
committee that sit underneathme, and also um credit to the
managing director and to my linemanager as well, who also
advocate very strongly for it.
SPEAKER_00 (23:29):
And you've talked about Chris, Chris would draw
for long as one of our NorthernPower Women uh awards uh our
advocates uh for 2025.
Um there'll be leaders out thereor line managers out there who
think, oh, I want to be a bitmore that, I want to create a
safe space, I want to do that,but I I absolutely don't know
where to start.
What's the one thing?
SPEAKER_02 (23:50):
Listen.
Um you know, there's uh itsometimes the quietest voices
make the loudest noise, and it'sjust being able to pick out that
one voice.
I I know there's there's a filmHidden Figures, and there's a
there's a moment when um thehead of NASA stands there
(24:12):
saying, Your job, Paul, is tofind the genius amongst all them
geniuses, and it's a bit likethat with this in that who has
the voice, who has the um whohas the point that needs to be
taken forward?
Um I know I'm very loud, I don'thave all the right uh questions
(24:35):
or answers, but I think I didpoker bear when I started, Mac.
Um and then um things developfrom there.
So it's about it's aboutlistening out for those voices
and and seeing the triggerpoints and and and looking for
(24:56):
those people that maybe don'tsay it but are in trouble.
Um and when they say I'm okay,maybe they're not as okay as
they're making out.
SPEAKER_03 (25:07):
Yeah, I think I think as well it's about
recognizing the difference.
So it's not only listening, butit's also recognizing that you
will never be able to trulyunderstand that person's
journey.
So I will never understand whatEmma has been through in terms
of how she has come to where sheis today.
Um, but I can listen and I canunderstand.
(25:29):
And as soon as I recognize that,and as soon as I recognise that
I'm in a position of privilegeand I can help, or I can help um
or she can help educate me, Ithink that's when you really
start to grow as a person.
So you won't always have theanswers.
SPEAKER_00 (25:41):
And it's passing that knowledge and skills on
because you're you'rerepresentative in other groups
as well.
And you don't need to bemonogamous to one group, do you?
You can be it's being curiousand being an advocate across
all, whether it's workingparents, whether it's uh women,
whether it's um neurodivergent.
It that's important to pass thatknowledge on, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03 (26:01):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And you know, similarly, whenyou talk about you know the
neurodivergent space, I don'tunderstand what it's like to
live in someone's head who isneurodiverse because I'm not,
but I can listen and they caneducate, and then I can help
inform change off the back ofthat.
SPEAKER_00 (26:17):
And you had a one a magic wand, you know, you've got
a limited resource and a limitedrub um budget.
Don't tell Chris, right?
Okay, don't tell the managerdirector.
But what would be that onechange that you would take, big
or small, that you would like tosee more workplaces to make
truly inclusive for the LG uhBTQI plus space?
What's that one thing that youdo?
(26:37):
And we've talked about smallthings as well.
SPEAKER_02 (26:40):
I've given this a lot of thought uh since you
posed the question a few daysago.
I didn't come up with the answerbecause I'm sort of happy the
way things are going.
Um I do I would like hang on,where's camera?
(27:02):
I would like to see see us atPride next year in Manchester.
I think I think the time'sright.
We need to take um we need totake a little bit of a leaf out
of the book of you guys downdown south and uh and show our
faces and and be be brave.
I'm not proud to be transgender.
(27:24):
I'm I'm not proud.
I just am, but I understand whatpride's all about.
So, you know, I feel I have aresponsibility and a duty to I'd
always said trailblaze, to toblaze a trail for those who come
uh ahead of me.
And I would like to do that.
(27:45):
That's what I think ManchesterAirport could do.
SPEAKER_00 (27:48):
Max, magic wand.
SPEAKER_03 (27:53):
Oh uh similar to Emma, I I think we're on the
track already.
I I think we are getting towhere we need to be.
Um, I just think we need to havea bit more courage and our
conviction, and we just need tocelebrate more.
Um, and it's like as Emma saidabout pride, you know.
Yes, we are at East Um atNottingham Pride as East
Midlands airport.
(28:14):
Um, but I don't do pride for me.
I'm not there for 36-year-oldMax.
I'll give him one of my agethere.
But um I don't need any moreconfidence, trust me.
I do it for the 12-year-old Maxwho was struggling with his
identity.
He didn't really want to be theperson that he was, and he was
trying to squash, squash thatside of him.
(28:35):
Oh, okay, it's fine, it's fine,I'll I'll never find, I'll never
find love.
And that's so sad.
And I just think, do you knowwhat?
If if we can turn up to Prideand show 12-year-old Max that
actually it's okay to beyourself and this big company,
we support you.
I think that's fantastic.
And as well, another point toadd is when my partner and I
(28:56):
choose to go on holiday with myfamily, we have to pick very
carefully, and it's a reallystressful time for us.
Holidays are meant to beamazing, and they are.
Um, but booking that holiday isreally stressful because we are
illegal in so many places whichwe want to go to.
Um, they don't recognize us as afamily, and that's
heartbreaking.
(29:17):
Um, and it's really, reallystressful.
So, for us as an airport, if wecan show up and if we can give
my family and families like minethat nod to say we support you
and it's okay, that's one lessstress out of the journey for us
when we're planning and booking.
So, for uh for so for me, Ithink we are definitely on the
right track, but we just need tobe that little bit more vocal
(29:40):
and to give a bit more hope tothem people out there who are
probably looking at the airportsfor a bit of that encouragement.
SPEAKER_02 (29:46):
Yeah, I think that's a good point.
You know, on top of all of this,though, the only thing I'd say
is that my dad is 83 years old.
He calls me Emma, he calls mehis daughter, and he still says
he and him.
So I don't care about anybodyelse in life except my dad.
And my son loves me for who Iam.
(30:07):
Um, so you know, for me, thatthat's everything.
But magic wonder, you know,pride about beer good.
SPEAKER_00 (30:16):
Now I'm gonna ask you to delve in, Max.
You don't need the glasses, soyou need to delve into the power
jar.
So the power jar is a jar whichwe have a question from one of
our previous guests.
So only one question betweenyou.
So, Max, you've got an amazing,an immense amount of
responsibility in this moment.
(30:36):
So if you want to take that outand read that, don't be making
it up, by the way, because wecan see you on camera.
SPEAKER_02 (30:42):
Is this for both of us?
For both of you, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:44):
And if you don't like it, just for Max, right?
All right.
SPEAKER_03 (30:49):
Okay, so if you could instantly swap lives with
a famous person for a week, whowould it be and why?
SPEAKER_02 (30:57):
All right, okay.
Well, I know I know thisalready.
So my You didn't get a sneak atthis question.
Oh, I am all over this question,right?
She's really good.
This would be Stephen Hawking.
Oh my god, he is my absolutehero in life.
I love Stephen Hawking.
I think he's supremelyintelligent.
Well, what sadly was, uh, butsupremely intelligent and what
(31:21):
that that guy went through toget to where he became, which
was, you know, probably theforemost expert in well, black
holes basically.
Um and understand a little bitof that terrible curse that he
went through.
So yeah, it'd be Stephen Hawkingfor me, I think.
SPEAKER_00 (31:40):
Max.
SPEAKER_02 (31:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (31:44):
I I would pick someone totally opposite to who
I am, um, so that I couldunderstand a bit more about them
and to live live in their shoes.
And it it goes back to thatquestion that we were sort of um
that we were talking through interms of I will never truly be
able to understand what someoneelse goes through.
So what better opportunity thanto step inside someone's shoes
(32:06):
who's totally opposite to me?
Um so I can't think of someoneoff the top of my head, but it
would it would have to besomeone entirely opposite just
to walk in someone's shoes for aday and have a true appreciation
for, you know, a differentperspective.
SPEAKER_00 (32:21):
The unknown hero, the unknown Samaritan.
SPEAKER_03 (32:23):
Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:24):
Max, Emma, thank you so much for bringing joy to our
couch.
Thank you so much for bringingjoy through your respective
airports because it makes amassive difference.
We've been talking in the greenroom before.
Made it sound fancy that we'vegot a green room.
Um about the experience of theairport, the mirror effect.
You smile, someone smiles back.
(32:45):
It becomes contagious.
It makes a part of that wholeexperience, doesn't it?
Of whether you don't know whatpeople are going through.
So please, please, my magic wandis that you continue to keep
passing that joy and that justwarm, warm nature on because
that's what creates the rippleeffect.
Sometimes it feels like a smallthing when you might be having a
(33:07):
bad day.
But you know what?
Just keep doing it.
Those small acts of kindness,those selfies uh across the
airport, whatever it may be,just keep being you because
everyone else has taken.
Thank you so much for joining metoday.
I love this conversation.
Thank you.
Yeah, thanks.
Subscribe on YouTube, Apple,Amazon Music, Spotify, or
(33:27):
wherever you get your podcasts.
Leave us a review or follow uson socials.
We are power underscore net onInsta, TikTok, and Twitter.
We are power on LinkedIn,Facebook, and we are underscore
power on YouTube.
This episode is part of our mini podcast and webinar
series in partnership withManchester Airports Group, where
we'll be exploring belonging,representation, and inclusion.
Don't forget to check out therest of the series for more real
stories and practical insights.
(00:24):
Well, welcome to today's episodewhere we are going to have an
amazing conversation discussingLGBTQ at work and why inclusion
really matters.
And I'm delighted to be joinedby Emma Preston, studied in
Preston, but lives in Blackburn,right?
No.
No.
Did I get that done?
No, that's what it says on yourLinkedIn profile.
(00:46):
I'm sure it does.
No, it doesn't.
It says Tell me, Emma.
SPEAKER_02 (00:50):
Names Preston, worked in worked in Preston,
studied in Preston, born inBlackburn.
SPEAKER_00 (00:58):
Oh, see, now that's going to dispel the whole myth
of my photographic memory.
That's destroyed it.
Anyway, welcome Emma.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04):
Thank you very much.
It's nice to be here.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (01:06):
And welcome, Max Corrison, as well.
Thank you so much for joining mefrom Manchester Airports group
today.
Now, how I feel like this isgoing to be impossible.
Can you explain or describe Maxin a sentence or two?
SPEAKER_02 (01:23):
Energetic, excitable, determined, um,
driven, and just a really goodmate.
SPEAKER_00 (01:30):
Oh.
Feel in the love already in thepod.
Is that Tana?
SPEAKER_03 (01:35):
Outside.
Later, later.
SPEAKER_00 (01:37):
Max.
SPEAKER_03 (01:37):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
Can you reciprocate now for our Emma?
Because she's been good anddecent to you.
SPEAKER_03 (01:42):
How do I follow that, Emma?
Probably with the truth.
And that is that you are one ofthe most passionate people that
I have ever met.
You are tenacious, you aredriven, and you are one of a
kind.
You truly are a true advocatefor LGBTQIA plus rights.
(02:03):
And you are my go-to person if Ineed anything.
So thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (02:07):
Now I can feel LinkedIn profiles being updated
as we speak.
Don't forget, born in Preston,made in Preston, not in
Blackburn.
But anyway, we're going.
How would you describe your rolein sort of plain speak?
Because I think when you work atsomewhere like Manchester
Airports Group, always been mydream job, by the way, putting
that out there.
Always wanted to, such anenvironment, isn't it?
(02:28):
You've got so many differentwalks of life across the
communities, across thedifferent establishments and
units and jobs probably we don'teven know exist.
How would you describe your jobin a um a few words?
SPEAKER_02 (02:41):
So am I going first?
Yeah.
So my job is just to keep planesin the sky.
But I I I've got a retailbackground.
Well, in fact, I'm very, veryold.
I've got a background ineverything.
And for me, customer services iseverything.
So I don't want people to thinkabout I just need to get through
security and then I'm onholiday.
(03:03):
I actually want people to wantto come through security.
So I just live my life with abig massive smile on my face and
just hope that I can just takethe Mickey out of passengers and
enjoy life and just send them onthe merry way with a big smile.
SPEAKER_00 (03:16):
And and to be honest, a smile is contagious,
right?
Isn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (03:18):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (03:19):
And it's like a mirror.
SPEAKER_02 (03:20):
Definitely, definitely.
That's all I think is I justwant to keep planes in the sky
and keep everybody happy.
SPEAKER_00 (03:27):
Love that.
She does a good job at it aswell.
Thank you.
Max, what about you?
What's your your role and howwould you describe it?
SPEAKER_03 (03:34):
So I'm I'm officially the world record
holder for the world's longestjob title.
So I'll I'll take that.
Um I am so officially the headof strategy, insights, and
governance at East MidlandsAirport.
So effectively, I look afterboth the short and long-term
strategy for both our customersand our cargo operation.
Um and I also have a hold on thedata that we use.
(03:57):
So just making sure that that'saccurate, that it's used
effectively from an operationalside and also from a forecasting
perspective.
Um and then governance, which isthe lovely bit that they've just
popped on the end, um, is justeffectively making sure that
information can be disseminatedboth up, across, and down the
business to the people that needit at the right time and that
it's accurate as well.
SPEAKER_00 (04:16):
So you're making everyone smile, keeping the
planes in the air, and you'rekeeping everyone communicated
with and informed, right?
SPEAKER_01 (04:22):
Yes, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (04:23):
Easy jobs, right?
So we started that you've gottwo very simple jobs.
So you've got loads of time forthe side hustle, right?
So, but what is when we talkabout inclusion, because it's
different things to differentpeople, and so it should be
because we are all different,but what does it look and feel
like in everyday working life?
And I'll start with you, Max.
SPEAKER_03 (04:43):
So, inclusion for me is just making sure that there's
a space for everybody.
Um, so I always look atinclusion off the basis of
equity, and there's there's afabulous um visualization of
equity with people looking overa fence.
I don't know if you've ever seenit, um, and there's a really
tall person, there's amedium-high person and a short
person.
Equality is giving everybody thesame box.
(05:03):
So they could so the tall personsees even higher up, the one in
the middle can see a little bitmore, and the person who's
really short at the end stillcan't see.
Um, and for me, what inclusionis is that tall person stepping
off that box that they've beengiven and giving that extra box
to the shorter person so thateverybody can see.
And what what we need to do as abusiness and as an employee is
(05:29):
to encourage that inclusion.
So by sharing your box, ifyou've got that privilege,
giving it to someone else andjust making sure that
everybody's included and there'sa space for all within the
organization.
SPEAKER_00 (05:39):
And you're very heavily part of the community
group across the airports group.
How has been part of this sortof shaped your work environment?
We already know that you're thesmiley giver and receiver.
SPEAKER_02 (05:52):
Yeah, I mean, I I really enjoy being part of a
greater, wider community.
And um I I do echo everythingthat Max has said, which is not
a surprise really, that we boththink very similar.
Um and for me it's it's aboutjust trying to include people on
(06:16):
their wavelength rather thantrying to include people at your
wavelength, so that people feellike they're involved and um
have a place in society anddon't feel the other side
excluded.
Um, I have no idea if I'veanswered your question there,
but it felt good to me.
SPEAKER_00 (06:35):
But actually, one of the things I love, you've
described life as something youlive to breathe, not breathe to
live.
Talk me through where that hascome from.
SPEAKER_02 (06:46):
Yeah, so this harps back to the past when I'm uh I'm
two-time uh attempt at uh takingmy own life, suicide.
And one was a really good orvery bad attempt, if you if you
know what I mean, and the otherone was there wasn't so much
behind it.
(07:06):
When I blossomed out of thereand people helped me, um, I
realized that there was a wholelife that I wasn't experiencing,
and I was allowing things andothers to suck the life out of
me.
So now I got up every morningand I cannot wait to get into
(07:29):
that day.
That's if I actually sleep.
I don't think I actually sleep,but there was a time when I was
breathing just to get throughthe day.
Uh, but that them days are longgone now.
Everything for me now is about,I believe I've got a hundred
years ahead of me, which will begood because that'll make me the
oldest person on earth, 160.
(07:50):
But I I just want to live lifeto the max.
And how can I do that if I amjust breathing to live?
SPEAKER_00 (07:59):
But what broke that cycle?
SPEAKER_02 (08:01):
People, other people.
Um, so I when people wereoffering to help when I was at
the depths of despair and I wasfacing the abyss, I I saw I saw
so much darkness that I couldn'tI couldn't think that people
(08:21):
were trying to help me.
I just thought they wereoffering charity and I didn't
want to take any charity.
But then one day I broke down somuch and somebody said, I need
to help you.
And I went, Yes, please.
And then I saw a ray of light.
So whenever I'm speaking onstage or things like that, I
always say, in the darkestabyss, there is always a ray of
(08:42):
light.
And that ray of light might bejust that one person who says,
Let me help you.
And they're not offeringcharity, they actually just want
to help you.
But the moment everythingchanged was when I stopped
trying to be the besttransgender woman I could be and
started being the best EmmaPresson I could be.
And then in that moment I feltlike a totally different person.
SPEAKER_00 (09:04):
And was that over a long period of time?
Because that's that seems likevery affirmative action, but
that doesn't happen overnight,doesn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (09:13):
No, it doesn't.
It it it was.
Um although the the wholetransgender person, Emma
Preston, that was that was likein an instant, you know.
I just thought, oh, I've got tothink differently here because I
am me.
But the whole cycle wasnightmarish.
It was it was years because I Ifelt alone.
(09:34):
I'd been um I'd been segregatedfrom society just for being who
I am.
I had um I'd chosen to live alife that I felt was very
selfish, and I'd taken myselfaway from the family.
Well, the family my my partnerat the time was, you know,
(09:57):
decided time was up, and thatmeant I had to leave for family
way, and that was verydifficult.
Uh so yes, it was it was yearsof getting myself back on track.
unknown (10:07):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (10:08):
And Max, you talk really openly about your
identity uh and and your role asa parent.
How's being a dab throughadoption, isn't it?
I think how's that influenceyour perspective?
SPEAKER_03 (10:21):
So I always feel that I need to be the strongest
advocate for myself and myfamily, because that will
reflect on my child.
Um, so a prime example, so itwas Mother's Day at school, and
my little boy he was making acard for his grandma, um,
because obviously there is adistinct absence of mother in
(10:44):
our family unit.
So um a child turned around tohim and was like, You don't have
a mummy.
And for some children, theywould really take that and that
would really impact them.
But because we've built mylittle boy up to be so confident
and so self-assured with hisfamily unit and about the fact
that he has two dads, um, heturned around and he was like,
Yes, I do.
(11:05):
I've got a birth mum, but I'vealso got two dads that love me
very, very much.
And for me, that is himreflecting on his positive
identity that we've brought upabout his family unit.
And that gives me so much pridebecause that's rubbed off and he
will take that forward now.
So, yeah, for me, it's reallyimportant that I'm confident in
(11:28):
my identity and I can answer anyquestions that he has because he
does have questions.
We we are a different family,and that's okay, but it's just
giving him the confidence to beable to take that on board and
to really own that, and he does.
SPEAKER_00 (11:42):
And his name?
SPEAKER_03 (11:43):
His name's Frankie.
SPEAKER_00 (11:44):
Frankie, big high five to Frankie.
Frankie's.
Very proud of your dad.
Done a great job on the sofahere today.
Is there been a time during yourcareer?
So we're talking work life now,where being LGBTQI plus has felt
like a barrier.
SPEAKER_03 (12:03):
Um for me personally, um, no.
Um just because so when I wasgoing through my coming out
process, that was all throughuniversity, um, if you like.
And by the time I'd finisheduniversity, I was very
self-assured and I was veryconfident in who I was as a
person.
I was still, you know, figuringstuff out, but I was very
(12:23):
confident that I was I was a gayman.
Um and for me, whenever I go toa job interview, um, one of the
first questions, or well, notthe first questions, um, but I
will always put into theinterview at some point that I
am gay.
So whether that is through sortof my involvement with LGBTQA
plus charities or through LGBTQIplus networks, um, or you know,
(12:45):
having having a same-sexpartner, I will always bring it
up and I always try andascertain their reaction back to
me.
And if their reaction is kind ofall brush shut under the carpet,
move on quickly, that says to methat this place isn't right for
me.
So I've always been reallycareful and selective about
where I have applied to andwhere I have taken jobs.
And um, credit to Mag, you know,when when I went for that
(13:09):
interview, um, they kind of cameback and they're like, that's
amazing.
Did you know we've got thisnetwork?
Did you know we've got this?
You can get involved in this.
And for me, I was like, okay,I'm home and I'm happy.
So I've I've never really hadthat sort of discrimination
because I've always been reallyselective about where I have
chosen to work.
SPEAKER_00 (13:25):
Because it's really important, isn't it?
That fit is important.
We spend a long time in yourwork environment.
Emma, you've come straight froma shift straight here to the
studio, haven't you?
I think.
But you have worked in differentsectors.
You said that earlier on.
In fact, I think pretty much thesector you haven't worked in,
you know.
But what have you noticed sortof differences?
I know time will be a factor aswell, but have you noticed sort
(13:47):
of differences from whether itbe across retail, hospitality,
which also sit within theairport as well.
SPEAKER_02 (13:52):
But yeah, yeah, uh there are differences, however,
I um saw a distribution I workedin, and that was when my
dysphoria came to the front.
Um, so it it the only thing itimpacted there was the way I
behaved more than anything, andI was quite irrational at the
(14:13):
time.
In retail, I I never really feltany kind of angst.
In fact, it played in my favourbecause I got on Radio 5 Live
with uh Rachel Byrd and loads,it was great.
And then I I then I I work intelevision now for the BBC.
I work at Wimbledon, and theythat's absolutely brilliant.
(14:34):
Everybody embraces great.
At the airport, I can honestlysay without a shadow of a doubt,
that I have been totallyembraced and really appreciated,
but it's very difficult not tobecause I'm extremely loud,
aren't I?
And I'm very flamboyant and verygregarious and over the top.
Um words for it.
(14:56):
So they are um so I I I love howMaggas embraced me and I
embraced well, it it was atwo-way thing, and there was no
talk about it, it just happened.
Um so I I feel reallyappreciated.
Is there any difference betweenthem all?
(15:17):
I don't know, and I don't reallycare.
Um, I sort of am just me now,and whatever darkness I had in
the past, I sort of forgottenabout because I just smile my
way through life now, and all Ido is I earn loads of money and
go skiing.
It's great.
SPEAKER_00 (15:32):
Skiing, Wimbledon, yeah, yeah, you know, poker.
Yeah, okay, we haven't got thatanyway, but um but it strikes me
that you because there's no planthat comes with this, but it
strikes me that there seems tobe a two-way relationship with
your role within ManchesterAirport Group, right?
You've you said this is who Iam, I'm this, I'm you use the
(15:55):
word just.
We try to ban the word just,you're especially not just
anything.
Um, but I think is thatsomething other organizations
can learn from by having thattwo-way dialogue to say, this is
who I am, and actually, if itdoesn't fit, it's okay.
It might have been the bestthing I ever wanted to do, or
role or promotion or job in theworld.
But it's important to fit, it'sreally important, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03 (16:19):
Yeah, definitely.
I think if you want people tobring their true selves to work
and to be comfortable in sharingtheir ideas and about just being
who they are, you need toembrace them as much as they're
embracing you.
And it it is that two-waystreet.
How do you feel about that?
Yeah, I I I agree totally.
SPEAKER_02 (16:35):
Um, we've got we've got people um at the same level,
my peers, uh superiors, um, evenright to the very top to uh to
Chris, who is the managingdirector, who are so embracing
and so supportive and appreciateum me and I'm sure Max and
(16:58):
everybody else.
And and like if there has been achallenge and there are
challenges, let's not let's notbeat around the bush.
It's not all rosy in the garden,but the except the neuron shift,
of course.
Yeah, of course.
But no, but in all seriousness,um when people at at that level
um give their time, you knowwhat that's fantastic, isn't it?
(17:25):
And and that tells me that thereis a rainbow, um, bright
sunshine in the future.
We've just got to get to it.
SPEAKER_00 (17:36):
And what because there'll be people either
watching, listening, that areeither from within the airport
group or in another organizationor who maybe not ready to share
or to come out or to be theircomplete selves.
What makes that workplace safe?
We talked about the two-way, thefact that your the reaction that
(17:56):
you had was, well, we've gotthis and we've got this, and
it's enthusiastic.
SPEAKER_02 (17:59):
It's got to be a robust background, hasn't there?
There's got to be a solidstructure behind it.
You've got to have people thatare dedicated to making a
difference.
Um, there's a lady of yourorganization called Alicia
McDonnell, and she is a trueadvocate for getting stuff done
and doesn't sit in thebackground, doesn't mess around.
(18:23):
If there's a problem, the doorsopen, and you can talk and you
can get stuff done.
Yeah.
It's not easy, and you know,it's not a case of, oh, let's
just go down the tick list.
You know, some things you haveto jump through lots and lots of
hoops, but you can get there,can't you?
SPEAKER_03 (18:40):
Yeah, 100%.
And I think as well about thatpiece around coming out, it's
just a recognition that it'svery personal to every single
person.
So sometimes, you know, someonecoming out wants that holistic
support.
They want people to wrap aroundthem, they want to get involved,
they want to be part of ourcolleague resource groups or our
colleague communities, um, andthey want to talk to people.
(19:03):
Whereas some people who are juststarting out that coming out
process, they might just want alittle flag up at Pride Month
that just kind of gives them anod and just lets them know that
this is a safe space for you.
And when you're ready, we'reready.
Um, and tiny, tiny things, youknow, such as, you know, if
you've got uh a line manager andyou know they start talking to
you about your partner or theirpartner, that inclusive language
(19:25):
just lets them know it's just abit of a small pat on the back
to say, when you're ready, we'reready.
And it's little things like thatthat really make a big
difference.
SPEAKER_00 (19:33):
And is always that balance because of having in
action versus policy?
Because you need policy andstrategies, and you're in that
department as well, aren't you,Ran?
Making that happen.
And and I know Alicia is leadinga lot, you'll be able to catch
up with Alicia on on her podcastas well.
She'll be joining us later inthe series as well.
Um, but how do you how do youmake it not just a policy that
(19:56):
sits over here?
And and you've talked about someof the top tips already.
It's it's language.
Yeah.
It's but any anything else thatyou think actually that's some
of the simple things.
Because some people think it'sreally difficult sometimes.
Sometimes it's those simplethings, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01 (20:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:11):
I mean, um it's sometimes I know there's a
famous phrase, don't sweat thesmall stuff, but actually
sometimes, especially fortransgender people, it is the
small stuff that makes a massivedifference.
And no problem is too large ortoo small um for the EDI team
(20:34):
and for Chris and for everybodyaround that directorship.
And that that makes me feelcomfortable comfortable.
I think that's fair, innit?
Yeah.
Uh comfortable that even ifstuff doesn't get done today,
there's always a tomorrow.
Yeah.
Um, I I don't look, I don'tthink as a transgender woman, I
(20:59):
am going to get everythingsorted.
In fact, I don't think it willbe sorted in my lifetime, but
it's what I do now for thosecoming ahead of me, you know,
over 20 somethings that aretransgender at the airport, that
they feel like, okay, I seeEmma, yeah, things are getting,
(21:20):
things are happening.
That's what I think.
SPEAKER_00 (21:22):
And do you both identify as role models?
SPEAKER_02 (21:24):
Oh god, no.
Jesus, I hope nobody follows me.
SPEAKER_00 (21:30):
Because you're blazer trail, right?
You've created a path, you'veforged a pathway.
Yourself too, role model.
I'm thinking, yeah, but otherpeople are too, right?
And that's the whole point ofyou be you, right?
SPEAKER_03 (21:42):
Yes, absolutely.
And I think Yes is the answer,Emma.
I'll tell you, you are a rolemodel because I I look up to
you.
Um, I think if you can be abeacon of hope or if you can be
um a symbol to somebodysomewhere, I think that's a
fantastic thing to be.
So if someone can look up to mein the business and say, Do you
(22:03):
know what?
I can um I can identify withthat person.
I'm similar to him in some way.
I mean, poor people, but if theycan identify with me and say,
well, he's he's made it, he's atthat level.
I actually I can see myselfthere.
Um, I think I would hope that Iwas a role model, and I hope
that I use my voice and myprivilege in a way that really
(22:24):
opens the door for other peopleto walk through.
SPEAKER_00 (22:27):
And have you found that because you lead uh Fly
with Pride, don't you, at EastMidlands Airport?
SPEAKER_03 (22:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (22:31):
What have you seen that change?
I see a big smile comes to yourface when we talk about this.
SPEAKER_03 (22:35):
Yeah, so um when I first joined East Midlands
Airport, um, which was aroundthree years ago now, there was a
Fly with Pride network, but ithadn't really got off the ground
and we didn't really sort oflead forward with it.
Um, but since I joined, um Ispoke to my manager at the time
and I was like, look, I reallywant to get involved in this.
There's a lot that we can dohere.
Um, and since then it's justgone from strength to strength.
(22:58):
So um we've done things likewe've attended Nottingham Pride
for the first time, and we'vedone it now for three years in a
row.
Um we've got a local committeethat we've built up that are
there to not only support ourcolleagues but also to help
inform policies, procedures,practices that we have in the
business.
Um, and yeah, so I I chair it,but I can't take credit for all
of you know all of the resultsbecause it's the fantastic
(23:21):
committee that sit underneathme, and also um credit to the
managing director and to my linemanager as well, who also
advocate very strongly for it.
SPEAKER_00 (23:29):
And you've talked about Chris, Chris would draw
for long as one of our NorthernPower Women uh awards uh our
advocates uh for 2025.
Um there'll be leaders out thereor line managers out there who
think, oh, I want to be a bitmore that, I want to create a
safe space, I want to do that,but I I absolutely don't know
where to start.
What's the one thing?
SPEAKER_02 (23:50):
Listen.
Um you know, there's uh itsometimes the quietest voices
make the loudest noise, and it'sjust being able to pick out that
one voice.
I I know there's there's a filmHidden Figures, and there's a
there's a moment when um thehead of NASA stands there
(24:12):
saying, Your job, Paul, is tofind the genius amongst all them
geniuses, and it's a bit likethat with this in that who has
the voice, who has the um whohas the point that needs to be
taken forward?
Um I know I'm very loud, I don'thave all the right uh questions
(24:35):
or answers, but I think I didpoker bear when I started, Mac.
Um and then um things developfrom there.
So it's about it's aboutlistening out for those voices
and and seeing the triggerpoints and and and looking for
(24:56):
those people that maybe don'tsay it but are in trouble.
Um and when they say I'm okay,maybe they're not as okay as
they're making out.
SPEAKER_03 (25:07):
Yeah, I think I think as well it's about
recognizing the difference.
So it's not only listening, butit's also recognizing that you
will never be able to trulyunderstand that person's
journey.
So I will never understand whatEmma has been through in terms
of how she has come to where sheis today.
Um, but I can listen and I canunderstand.
(25:29):
And as soon as I recognize that,and as soon as I recognise that
I'm in a position of privilegeand I can help, or I can help um
or she can help educate me, Ithink that's when you really
start to grow as a person.
So you won't always have theanswers.
SPEAKER_00 (25:41):
And it's passing that knowledge and skills on
because you're you'rerepresentative in other groups
as well.
And you don't need to bemonogamous to one group, do you?
You can be it's being curiousand being an advocate across
all, whether it's workingparents, whether it's uh women,
whether it's um neurodivergent.
It that's important to pass thatknowledge on, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03 (26:01):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And you know, similarly, whenyou talk about you know the
neurodivergent space, I don'tunderstand what it's like to
live in someone's head who isneurodiverse because I'm not,
but I can listen and they caneducate, and then I can help
inform change off the back ofthat.
SPEAKER_00 (26:17):
And you had a one a magic wand, you know, you've got
a limited resource and a limitedrub um budget.
Don't tell Chris, right?
Okay, don't tell the managerdirector.
But what would be that onechange that you would take, big
or small, that you would like tosee more workplaces to make
truly inclusive for the LG uhBTQI plus space?
What's that one thing that youdo?
(26:37):
And we've talked about smallthings as well.
SPEAKER_02 (26:40):
I've given this a lot of thought uh since you
posed the question a few daysago.
I didn't come up with the answerbecause I'm sort of happy the
way things are going.
Um I do I would like hang on,where's camera?
(27:02):
I would like to see see us atPride next year in Manchester.
I think I think the time'sright.
We need to take um we need totake a little bit of a leaf out
of the book of you guys downdown south and uh and show our
faces and and be be brave.
I'm not proud to be transgender.
(27:24):
I'm I'm not proud.
I just am, but I understand whatpride's all about.
So, you know, I feel I have aresponsibility and a duty to I'd
always said trailblaze, to toblaze a trail for those who come
uh ahead of me.
And I would like to do that.
(27:45):
That's what I think ManchesterAirport could do.
SPEAKER_00 (27:48):
Max, magic wand.
SPEAKER_03 (27:53):
Oh uh similar to Emma, I I think we're on the
track already.
I I think we are getting towhere we need to be.
Um, I just think we need to havea bit more courage and our
conviction, and we just need tocelebrate more.
Um, and it's like as Emma saidabout pride, you know.
Yes, we are at East Um atNottingham Pride as East
Midlands airport.
(28:14):
Um, but I don't do pride for me.
I'm not there for 36-year-oldMax.
I'll give him one of my agethere.
But um I don't need any moreconfidence, trust me.
I do it for the 12-year-old Maxwho was struggling with his
identity.
He didn't really want to be theperson that he was, and he was
trying to squash, squash thatside of him.
(28:35):
Oh, okay, it's fine, it's fine,I'll I'll never find, I'll never
find love.
And that's so sad.
And I just think, do you knowwhat?
If if we can turn up to Prideand show 12-year-old Max that
actually it's okay to beyourself and this big company,
we support you.
I think that's fantastic.
And as well, another point toadd is when my partner and I
(28:56):
choose to go on holiday with myfamily, we have to pick very
carefully, and it's a reallystressful time for us.
Holidays are meant to beamazing, and they are.
Um, but booking that holiday isreally stressful because we are
illegal in so many places whichwe want to go to.
Um, they don't recognize us as afamily, and that's
heartbreaking.
(29:17):
Um, and it's really, reallystressful.
So, for us as an airport, if wecan show up and if we can give
my family and families like minethat nod to say we support you
and it's okay, that's one lessstress out of the journey for us
when we're planning and booking.
So, for uh for so for me, Ithink we are definitely on the
right track, but we just need tobe that little bit more vocal
(29:40):
and to give a bit more hope tothem people out there who are
probably looking at the airportsfor a bit of that encouragement.
SPEAKER_02 (29:46):
Yeah, I think that's a good point.
You know, on top of all of this,though, the only thing I'd say
is that my dad is 83 years old.
He calls me Emma, he calls mehis daughter, and he still says
he and him.
So I don't care about anybodyelse in life except my dad.
And my son loves me for who Iam.
(30:07):
Um, so you know, for me, thatthat's everything.
But magic wonder, you know,pride about beer good.
SPEAKER_00 (30:16):
Now I'm gonna ask you to delve in, Max.
You don't need the glasses, soyou need to delve into the power
jar.
So the power jar is a jar whichwe have a question from one of
our previous guests.
So only one question betweenyou.
So, Max, you've got an amazing,an immense amount of
responsibility in this moment.
(30:36):
So if you want to take that outand read that, don't be making
it up, by the way, because wecan see you on camera.
SPEAKER_02 (30:42):
Is this for both of us?
For both of you, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:44):
And if you don't like it, just for Max, right?
All right.
SPEAKER_03 (30:49):
Okay, so if you could instantly swap lives with
a famous person for a week, whowould it be and why?
SPEAKER_02 (30:57):
All right, okay.
Well, I know I know thisalready.
So my You didn't get a sneak atthis question.
Oh, I am all over this question,right?
She's really good.
This would be Stephen Hawking.
Oh my god, he is my absolutehero in life.
I love Stephen Hawking.
I think he's supremelyintelligent.
Well, what sadly was, uh, butsupremely intelligent and what
(31:21):
that that guy went through toget to where he became, which
was, you know, probably theforemost expert in well, black
holes basically.
Um and understand a little bitof that terrible curse that he
went through.
So yeah, it'd be Stephen Hawkingfor me, I think.
SPEAKER_00 (31:40):
Max.
SPEAKER_02 (31:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (31:44):
I I would pick someone totally opposite to who
I am, um, so that I couldunderstand a bit more about them
and to live live in their shoes.
And it it goes back to thatquestion that we were sort of um
that we were talking through interms of I will never truly be
able to understand what someoneelse goes through.
So what better opportunity thanto step inside someone's shoes
(32:06):
who's totally opposite to me?
Um so I can't think of someoneoff the top of my head, but it
would it would have to besomeone entirely opposite just
to walk in someone's shoes for aday and have a true appreciation
for, you know, a differentperspective.
SPEAKER_00 (32:21):
The unknown hero, the unknown Samaritan.
SPEAKER_03 (32:23):
Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:24):
Max, Emma, thank you so much for bringing joy to our
couch.
Thank you so much for bringingjoy through your respective
airports because it makes amassive difference.
We've been talking in the greenroom before.
Made it sound fancy that we'vegot a green room.
Um about the experience of theairport, the mirror effect.
You smile, someone smiles back.
(32:45):
It becomes contagious.
It makes a part of that wholeexperience, doesn't it?
Of whether you don't know whatpeople are going through.
So please, please, my magic wandis that you continue to keep
passing that joy and that justwarm, warm nature on because
that's what creates the rippleeffect.
Sometimes it feels like a smallthing when you might be having a
(33:07):
bad day.
But you know what?
Just keep doing it.
Those small acts of kindness,those selfies uh across the
airport, whatever it may be,just keep being you because
everyone else has taken.
Thank you so much for joining metoday.
I love this conversation.
Thank you.
Yeah, thanks.
Subscribe on YouTube, Apple,Amazon Music, Spotify, or
(33:27):
wherever you get your podcasts.
Leave us a review or follow uson socials.
We are power underscore net onInsta, TikTok, and Twitter.
We are power on LinkedIn,Facebook, and we are underscore
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