September 1, 2025 • 30 mins
The brilliant Liz Kingston and Alexandra Ahmet join the We Are PoWEr Podcast - bringing a conversation about making recruitment more inclusive, removing the fear from interviews, and building confidence for anyone chasing their next opportunity.
As part of BT’s talent team, Liz and Alexandra aren’t just hiring people - they’re rethinking how the process works. From making interviews transparent and prep-friendly to encouraging candidates to always ask questions, they share how curiosity and authenticity can set you apart. They open up about the moments they’re most proud of, the lessons that reshaped their own careers, and why inclusivity is everyone’s responsibility - not just leadership’s.
Balancing ambition with real life, they reveal how they juggle work, family, and even the fast-changing world of AI recruitment, all while staying true to themselves. Their message is simple: don’t dim your ambition, and remember there’s more than one way to get where you want to go.
In this episode:
Why asking questions is the most underrated career skill
How BT is making recruitment less intimidating and more transparent
Personal lessons on authenticity, ambition, and self-belief
Why inclusivity is everyone’s job – not just leadership’s
The role of AI in recruitment and what it means for future talent
Superpowers: juggling & compartmentalisation
Trusting your gut and taking different routes to success
Find out more about We Are PoWEr here. 💫
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, hello and welcome to the we Are Power
podcast.
If this is your first time here, the we Are Power podcast is
the podcast for you, your careerand your life.
We release an episode everysingle Monday with listeners in
over 60 countries worldwide,where you'll hear personal life
stories, top-notch industryadvice and key leadership
insight from amazing role models.
(00:21):
As we Are Power is the umbrellabrand to Northern Power Women
Awards, which celebrateshundreds of female role models
and advocates every year.
This is where you can hearstories from all of our awards
alumni and stay up to date witheverything MPW Awards and we Are
Power.
Well, hello and welcome to thepodcast.
(00:48):
This week, I am delighted to bejoined by the BT Group A
massive.
We have a two for one specialLiz and Alex on the couch.
Now how is it even possiblewith you two to describe each
other in three words sentence.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Do you want to go first?
I can Go on.
I can.
Tenacious, inventive andhumorous.
Oh, I take that.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Oh, I'm waiting for some jokes to be cracking on
through this, Alex.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Oh, I'm under pressure now what would I say
for you?
Oh, and stylish.
I'm going to sneak a fourthword in.
We could hyphenate it rightyeah, tenaciously, stylishly,
funny there you go.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
That sounds good.
I'd go ambitious, direct,straight straightforward, which
I like.
Yeah, I'd say you're humorous.
Direct straightforward, which Ilike.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
I'd say you're humorous as well, and what are
your day jobs?
What do you do?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
So we both work in recruitment for BT.
So we manage teams and stuff tobring in.
Hopefully, good talent is whatwe want to do.
That's our job.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, and you're doing things in a new way now,
aren't you at BT?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah, yeah, we are.
I mean, I've been around theblock a few more times than Alex
.
So I've been in recruitmentsince the late 90s and part of
my role when I joined BT, like ayear and a half ago or so, was
to sort of look at how werecruited and look at how we
could make the process moreinclusive but also, like, more
(02:31):
enjoyable.
You know, you, you go to, yougo to events or you're asked to,
you're asked to coach people oryou know as soon, as soon as
well.
We we normally say we're intalent acquisition and then
people go what does?
Does that mean?
We say recruitment and they'relike, oh right, okay, but when
you start talking to peopleabout their interview
experiences or writing a CV, allof a sudden they're like, oh, I
(02:53):
had a terrible experience.
Interviews have been the worstpart of my life.
Oh, I hate writing my own CV.
So a lot of what I was broughtin to do was reimagine how we
recruit at BT, make it moreinclusive, make it enjoyable and
make it into a process wherepeople can showcase what they
can do rather than wait toalmost fail.
So that's something that wesort of designed together as a
(03:16):
team and we rolled out.
We did a pilot last year andit's it's been phenomenal in
terms of feedback, in terms ofexperience, in terms of what
we've got out of it.
I think, as a recruitment team,we enjoy our jobs a lot more
and we've made really seismicchange in terms of inclusion, in
terms of gender, in terms ofdisability and ethnicity and all
(03:37):
of those great things, becausepeople enjoy it and they can
showcase their skills, not justwhat they do now, but what they
can do in the future.
So we are doing thingsdifferently.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
And did some of that reimagining coming from your own
experience as well of thosethings that you're just saying
they were the horrible things,Do you?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
know what it is.
I've worked at BT for nearly 10years and it's been a really
tough challenge to try andchange anything process-wise
when it comes to the recruitmentpiece.
People want to do it their ownway.
People have been there a whileand I think trying to change
that idea of what is a goodrecruitment process was
something that was quite, youknow, interesting.
People wanted to understand,like, why do we have to change
(04:13):
it like this?
And you think about all thedifferent things you want to
include and, as I said, makecandidates more aware of what
the process would be.
They're not waiting to slip up.
They know how, what to expectfrom us.
They can see what the processmight be like.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
I think that's what's changed massively for that and
actually it's an experience,yeah, and we want it to feel
like an experience rather than awaterfall gateway process, so I
want them to come away and go.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Do you know what?
I might not have got the role,but the process I had, or the
experience I had with the, withthat recruitment team, has been
really good, so it still wouldapply again in the future.
Or I'd also think, do you knowwhat?
I won't change my phone fromthem now, because actually they
work quite good so it's a littlebit of that.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah as well and has there been sort of a good
example that you know you'vecreated this new process and
you've gone?
Oh my gosh, we would never havefound that person or the way
that person presented this.
Yeah that's.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
That's exactly what we wanted?
Yeah, 100%.
There's been situations where amanager would be very convinced
they know who's going to getthe job.
They've got preconceived ideas.
Someone's always going to getit, it's going to be great.
And they go through the processand you know, do you know what?
If you hadn't have done this, Inever would have considered
this other person.
I'm really struggling to make adecision because you've set it
up in such a way that they allhave done really well and it was
(05:25):
completely unexpected andthat's what you want.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
What advice would you give to people watching or
listening out there whether it'sdirectly or it's their, their
family that are maybe just gotresults or due to get results or
something and it's they've thengot to go down this process,
but that it's not who.
They are maybe a bitintroverted or just don't think
they've got the stories to tell.
What's your one top tip youwould give?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I think ask questions .
If you're going through aprocess, don't be afraid to ask
whoever it is that you're goingthrough a process with.
Can you tell me more?
And it's being that, like youknow whatever you're unsure
about or you don't understand,like don't just think, because
they've told you it's this, youhave no choice but to question
anything or get any more detailsthat you feel more comfortable
(06:10):
about what to expect.
I think it's that.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
I think people need to be curious around the process
.
I think they need to look at thetools that are there to succeed
.
So when you think about, youknow we're part of a global
recruitment team behind thewebsite and behind the job
you're applying for will besomebody in the recruitment team
that will want to help you andwill be able to you know give
(06:35):
you top tips about who it isthat you're going to.
There are lots of opportunitiesfor you to delve deeper, not
only about the company that youare looking to join, but also
the people that you're going tomeet as part of that process,
(06:55):
and whether it's looking at howto succeed on a YouTube channel
or using LinkedIn to look atpeople's profiles and really
create those human connections.
People like talking aboutthemselves.
So, going into an interview ifyou know who you're going to
meet and go oh, I had to look atyou on LinkedIn.
This is really interesting.
What did you enjoy about that?
It immediately moves it awayfrom that sort of transactional
(07:19):
into that human interaction, andstraight away you'll feel a lot
more relaxed and you'll be thenbe able to be more yourself,
and people still buy people 100%.
That's got to be the best bitof the job, right?
Yeah, telling somebody they'vegot a job is without doubt the
best part of being inrecruitment.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
When you do, they have got some good news for you.
It's that bit.
It's great because it's lifechanging.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
You know, you sort of think of all of those pivotal
moments where you've made ashift in your career and you
know, I, I've, I've got so manyexamples of so many different
people at different points intheir career.
Um, and it is, it's humblingand heartwarming, it's lovely,
it's really nice.
Alex, you talked about askquestions.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
What are the best?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
the best question you've ever been asked oh, I'm
trying to think, um, but a lotof them will ask me things like
so what they like, like who Imean, what are they like?
Have you got any tips for me,like what kind of thing should I
ask them?
And they really want sometimes,like ask a bit more behind the
scenes type questions, and thoseare kind of things that you
think you know what they reallywant to work for us.
(08:22):
Well, they're really curiousabout this and that's a kind of
like a tick anyway, because youcan see that someone is keen.
Um, so those kind of questionsare quite good, I think.
Yeah, they want to know theinside scoop and sometimes we're
not good at telling our ownstory.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
You've been involved in, yeah, the northern power and
awards and we are powercommunity now and uh, and being
part of that, judging andreading and assessing those
1,600 nominations coming in.
It's a tough thing sometimes tohigh five yourself and tell
your whole story, isn't it?
How is it okay to?
It's not a humble brag, is it?
You've got to go full on brag,haven't you?
(08:55):
Or full on answer a question.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yeah, and I think we're all quite
self-depreciating, aren't we?
I think as Brits we're quiteself-depreciating.
I think as women we're even moreself-depreciating and we're
taught from quite young to, youknow, find humility but sort of
quiet yourself down a little bit.
You know it's the sort of youhave, an assertive man and a
(09:18):
bossy woman, you know, and Ithink sometimes and I say this
to people and I've sort of takenmy own advice as well when you
sort of sat there and you, youknow, you're trying to think
about what would somebody findinteresting in me, and you, you
know, you've maybe had a bit ofa bad day and you know, whatever
, go and ask your supportnetwork.
You know, your friends, yourfamily.
It's a really nice exerciseactually, because you think, oh,
(09:39):
people do see in me, maybe whatI see glimmers of myself.
But doing that is a reallygreat mindset shift and it gives
a sort of outside inperspective from other people to
sort of give yourself a bit ofa pat on the back but actually
give yourself somethingmeaningful to write in those
nominations, because it's hardto sit down with a blank piece
of paper.
It's really difficult whetherit's a CV or a nomination.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
It's a similar process, isn't?
Speaker 3 (10:03):
it in some respects, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Because you're winning, going to win an award
or to profile yourselves or thesame, even if you're only going
to the job for experience or tobuild up sort of that
self-belief.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, it's really tough, though, saying anything
about yourself.
I mean, that's the hardest partof any of it doing interviews,
doing for this it's.
It's tough because you can'tthink of all the good stuff you
have to have.
Sometimes you need someone totell you do you know what you're
actually really good at?
Speaker 3 (10:28):
this, yeah, this is what you should do.
Yeah, and that's always reallyimportant it's nice and what
about the prep?
Speaker 1 (10:34):
so you've changed the process, but still about the
preparation, though, as well,isn't it?
And you said curiosity, which Ithink is one of my favorite
words.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Maybe it's just nosiness me for me, but yeah,
yeah yeah, yeah, I mean there'sa lot, I think you know, for any
business that you're going into, but especially, you know, at
BT and and we have values thatare sort of waving through life
in the business and and um, whatwe've taken a lot of time to do
is bring consistency into theprocess and be super clear, not
(11:04):
just with the managers thatyou're meeting as part of that
experience.
We're telling you the topicsthat you're going to be talking
about in each of those threewhat we're now calling discovery
sessions, because we want tomove away from this sort of
cognizant thing about interviewsbeing sell me this pen, good
cop, bad cop.
(11:24):
Panellists.
You know when you sort of satthere going, oh who do I talk to
?
And I'm really struggling.
We want it to be inclusive andwe want to put you into a
position where we're telling youthe topics.
It's fine to bring in notes,it's fine to prepare ahead of
time.
If you basically want to writethe question down, reflect on
the question and then answer thequestion, absolutely fine.
(11:46):
Set yourself up to succeed andwe want to give people the
permission to do that.
It isn't just about here's aquestion, and what will set you
in good stead is as quickly asyou can answer it yeah, we're
not assessing good interviewpeople.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
You're not good people that can interview.
I'm actually looking about you.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Yeah, it's not a speed test and it's a bit like
you know when you go doing yourGCSEs and it's like most of the
people that fall down in aninterview asked a question that
answered a question that isn'tthe question you asked them
because you're rushing.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
And that's what it is , isn't it?
You panic?
Yeah, in those kind ofscenarios and the whole point of
the process is to try and makeit as relaxing as an interview
can be.
And it's real life, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
If this is a first job, you've maybe not got that
experience.
And so all of a sudden, youknow I love the whole idea.
Take your notes in, take a bitof time.
That's what the world of workis going to be.
You're not put on the spot onday one.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Absolutely, absolutely is going to be.
You're not putting the spot onday one, absolutely, absolutely.
And a really great interviewquestion that I've used in the
past for, um, you know peoplethat are maybe coming out of
education or pivoting in theircareer is tell us something that
you're proud of because you'rean expert in that.
Yeah, so it immediately makespeople feel confident, it makes
them feel an expert on that andit gets them super engaged and
(13:01):
it's really interesting for themanagers you know and you can
have everything from wildcamping to filmmaking to fashion
styling, but they're an expertin that, so immediately lowers
their sort of worry about.
You're asking me to talk aboutsomething that I'm not hugely
confident on Getting it wrong.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Exactly.
None of us want to get it wrong.
Exactly.
So what are you most proud of?
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Ooh, Personally or professionally, it's back to us.
You pick.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Thank you for the question.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Answering questions.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah we always do that.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Let's try.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
I think professionally, hopefully making
making a tangible difference topeople's opportunities to grow
and fulfill their potential.
I would say for me.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
I'm trying to think now.
So I think professionally, Ithink being able to grow myself
professionally because I've hadthree children they're still
quite young children and beingable to do that and have kids
and do big things with our teamat BT and stuff like that and
still being able to manage theback of my head thinking about
(14:17):
other things to do with schooland stuff, so I think
professionally to be able to doany of that.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
I'm like oh my God.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, holding it all together, yeah, basically that's
not what I'm most proud of tobe able to hold it together and
do the family stuff, but stilltry and push forward with your
own career, about what you wantto do and you know.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yeah, that kind of thing and what advice would you
give your you know, not verymany years ago selves, because
you're both whippersnappers.
What advice would you give whenit's sometimes because you talk
Liz about, you know this couldbe coming into sort of a new
role.
It could be straight fromacademia, it could be that pivot
it could be.
(14:53):
Sometimes we can be lost, can'twe?
We're just done in.
Yeah, is that me?
No, that's probably me.
Do you know what?
I think we all, we all, we allwake up with a bit of fatigue
some days, don't we?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
I think, um, when I started in recruitment uh it was
it was quite a male dominatedsector.
Um, it's not anymore helpfully,but I think in the late 90s
when I started, it was very muchto succeed, you needed to be a
(15:25):
certain way.
I think what was helpful atthat period of time is it was
all about figures and finance,so the most successful person in
the room billed the most money.
But there were also behavioursthat went alongside that and I
think it's super easy to lookaround you and say to succeed, I
(15:48):
have to be like that person andI think, looking back in
retrospect, I should have beenmore confident to succeed being
my own person than try toreplicate maybe some people
around me, and I think I don'tdo that so much anymore because
of the confidence that I've sortof that's grown over time, but
(16:08):
also probably the environmentsthat I work in now.
I think we're a lot more open todefinitely at BT, open to being
your authentic self at work,bringing your entire self to
work, talking about life outsidework and how that affects self
to work, talking about lifeoutside work and how that
affects you, know how you showup every day, and I think as a
team, we're quite open to thatand that's a very different
(16:30):
balance to how it used to be andI think if I started my career
in that sort of environment, I'dmaybe I'd probably be in a
different place to where I amnow.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I can see that I think it's the same because I
think I grew up in the samesituation with recruitment,
starting an agency, techrecruitment especially.
It is not necessarily a niceplace to be back then.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
It's brutal.
Really brutal.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah, as you said, like I think, having the ability
to push back and give yourselfa bit of space in those kind of
not so nice environments andmoving to like, yeah, you know,
trust what you need, justbecause you're trying to move
forward in your own career andwhatever, yeah, it's been.
Say like no and that's, that'senough for me, I'm gonna go
somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I don't know.
Inclusion, equity is, is theheart of, yeah, the, the way
we've worked together, isn't it?
You know, oh gosh, liz, you andI personally met all those
years ago in in Angel Square orup there, I remember.
And that was all around.
You know, sort of comingtogether as collaborative unit
around gender equality.
But why is it so important?
(17:35):
You know you've talked abouthow you've changed practices to
be more inclusive forindividuals, showing up for
yourself.
But why is it so important, notjust to have that International
Women's Day or Inclusion Weekor Black History Month?
Or Mental Health Awareness it'snot just for Christmas is it?
Speaker 3 (17:53):
No, it's not, and I think you know, whilst we've
come a long way, there is stillan awful lot more to do.
And Alex mentioned you've gotthree boys, I've got two girls.
I'm sort of coming out of thatsort of you know, later teenage
years and you're oh, I'm stillin the thick of it.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Still, still, still.
Single figures really how youngAlex.
Seven, five and two Wowzers.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yeah, noisy house the three boys as well.
Especially the energy levels isinsane.
Yeah, she comes to work for arestroom.
Yeah, basically yeah there.
There is still a lot more to doand in some ways it's while
it's while.
It's great seeing how far we'vecome in.
In you know, my lifetime, I'mmaking myself sound older than
(18:37):
muthusala or whatever.
But there is still a lot more to, there is still a lot further
to go, and I think we can lookto society and say, oh, you know
, all of this is wrong over hereand this needs fixing and yes,
it does.
But I think you have to sort ofthink okay, well, what can
little old me do in terms of thelittle world that I can
influence, you know, not justbeing the parent to two teenage
(18:57):
girls, but it's, I think it'slike calling things out and
reshaping things for them andmaking them realise that you
know, we're not done yet and westill have to continue pushing
forward and actually, if we allplay a part in that, we'll get
to where we want to go quicker.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Absolutely.
On your own you go fast, buttogether you go far, you do.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
You do.
And, interestingly, you know my, my oldest daughter, is 18 in
November and and somebody saidto her in front of me oh about,
you know this boy and you knowhow bright he was and wasn't
going to do well and so on andso forth.
And they said to her he's thesort of man you want to marry,
amelia, because he's going to bea CEO.
(19:36):
And I literally looked at herand I said Amelia, you can be a
CEO, you don't need to marry one, you should be one.
And she went.
I know mum.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
That's what you want, isn't it?
And it's crazy that thatstatement was even made exactly,
and it wasn't you know, it wasjust.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
It was just a flippant comment, meant with
just you know, just.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
I guess they were just trying to make a little
comment making, yeah, but it wasjust.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Like you know, women don't need to marry CEOs anymore
.
Women are CEOs, whether that'sof their own life or whether
that's at work, and that's thechange that we still need to
make.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, and I think you're right.
We always talk about what wecan do.
There's a big we in the centreof the word power isn't it and?
Power right now can be achallenging word and used in
challenging ways so.
I think we all have thatresponsibility, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yeah, I think it's like building communities within
your own, wherever you can andwhatever it might be, that you
can share experiences to helpsomeone else.
And it could be, as you said,like quite individual, as we're
talking about kids, like peoplewho've come back from work.
I'm really like quite keen tohelp if they've, you know,
feeling a bit, you know, lostand despondent about having to
come back and try and navigateit all.
I'm like, well, I've done thisthree times, it will get better.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
I promise.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
It's more of that, like sharing some of those.
Like you know, it might be areally bad day today, but
tomorrow will be better.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
It's okay.
Communities were made up of somany different parts and.
Dna is made up of so manydifferent parts, and we talked
about this.
I don't know where this isgoing to take us, but talk to me
about how your DNA is made,alex yes, I recently said,
you're simple, aren't you, liz?
I don't mean that in many ways,yeah, I recently did mine.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
So my um, my mother-in-law, bought me as a
birthday present because I'vealways said my family history is
quite mixed and I wanted toknow exactly how it was made up.
So I did that.
So one side of me is verystraightforward I'm 49% Cypriot.
Okay, cool, you know, you can,maybe you can tell that that
makes sense.
But the other side of my familyis a bit more mixed.
So, um, I'm 12% Chinese, whichis exciting, which I did know,
(21:38):
because my my nan does lookChinese, by the way.
But you know, it's to see howit's mixed up, yeah, is like
interesting.
And then now I found out I'm12% Indigenous American, like
native Indigenous, so likenative American.
And I didn't know.
Well, I did know that too, butagain, I didn't know how much,
because you don't know how muchit dilutes as you go through
your area and obviously mygrandparents would tell me all
(22:00):
these different stories and I'mlike that can't be true, like it
doesn't make sense in your mind.
How can you be a bit of thisand a bit of that and a bit of
this?
So yeah, yeah, and has that ledyou to be more curious?
Yeah, because I want to.
So I'm really into, like I wantto go to China now because it
says it's actually the part ofthe region that she's from.
So I want to like understandreally specific.
Yeah, it was really specific,like pinpoint exactly where your
(22:21):
family from, and even in Cyprus, the specific regions of where
my family originated from, andthen they all came over um to
the UK from Trinidad and it saysthat that's that's the more
recent history, because of their, their movement and stuff, and
I'm like, wow, it is quite it'sa lot of things to take off the
um, the old travel list now andyou spent time in Canada, is
that right?
Speaker 3 (22:42):
I did, yeah, so I lived in.
Uh, I lived in Toronto forthree years when, uh, yeah, uh,
the girls were well, we movedthere with my husband's job and
I had three years, I say off,but I was at home looking after
toddlers in a, in a countrywhere I knew nobody.
So, uh, yeah, um, the littleone was six months and the big
one was two when we went um, so,three years, um, yeah, toronto
(23:03):
housewife, it was absolutelyfantastic was it yeah, it's
really good what would you sayis your superpower?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
oh yeah, I don't know when to bring it back to kids
again, but juggling, you have to, I think.
If you're not able to domultitask and to juggle some of
it, I think that's it's quitebig because I'm back in mind.
I'm still thinking about thefact that I've got to pay for a
school trip that's coming up and.
I haven't done it yet.
I think compartmentalisation isa really good skill.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
I think.
Some days I'm better at it thanothers and, similar to you, you
know I feel like I've goteverything worked out and you
know I'm about to go to ameeting and then I get a text
message off one of my kids goingcan you put money on parent pay
?
He's got no money for my schooldinner.
It's like oh um, but I thinkyou know, focusing focusing in
(23:51):
different ways on what'simportant.
I think family work, selfactually, yeah is also important
.
I think that's something thatwe maybe don't think about so
much as working parents.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
I was gonna say look into the future, but it's right
now.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
AI is everywhere, right, yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:04):
AI and it can be very much pulled up as a bad thing
and be pulled up as a you knowsort of a positive thing.
But how do you think itimplements or is impacting on
your professional world, butalso on your personal world?
Does it help?
Speaker 2 (24:17):
you juggle.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
I wish I could figure out a way to make it juggle for
me a bit more um.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I haven't worked out that was any tips more than
interested in the personal one,I mean in work.
It is in recruitment inparticular.
It is a massive hot topic allthe time.
So, like within my, within ourrole in the area that we recruit
for, we do recruit for, like AI, engineers and things like that
, but then within recruitment,there's so many new tools people
want to talk about you know, um, ai, generated CVs and
(24:45):
interviews and things like thatand it's just a minefield of
trying to work out what is goingto give you some better results
but also not take away from thehuman aspect of what we do.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Yeah, I mean it's hugely.
I think it's hugely disruptive.
I mentioned I started in thelate 90s and it was pretty much
with a fax machine, um, you knowwith that white tape over
certain things and, um, I don'teven think my kids would know
what a fax machine actually is.
They look with incredularity ata cd oh, I love an ohp with
(25:19):
those squeaky pens um AI, Ithink in recruitment or talent
acquisition is is it's hugelydisruptive.
And I think for me and probablyfor our team, is certainly the
way that we see it at BT is weuse it in a way that keeps the
people element of the job andjust enables us to go faster.
And I think and I firmly believeyou know, recruitment, talent
(25:41):
acquisition, whatever you wantto call it, ultimately it's
sales at the end of the day andsales has a huge people element
to it, and it's retaining thatpeople element and using AI to
help us extend the amount oftime that we have with the
people that we work with, to putthem into careers at BT or move
their career forward whilstthey're at BT, because we do
(26:02):
internal moves and careerchanges as well.
It's using it in the right wayto free your time up to deliver
value, which is ultimately, Ithink, how we use it and final
(26:24):
question what is the best bit ofadvice that you never received?
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Oh, that's hard, I'd say.
Say, actually, I'm gonna jumpin.
I'm gonna say like trust yourgut and I think, oh, you know,
and what I'm trying to say.
Like people say, oh, it's gonnawork out in the end, like trust
your instinct if you think it'snot, and it's more of that,
like whatever that might be,wherever that takes you, it's
not like trusting you're in theright place or you're not in the
right place, or you're not inthe right place or you're doing
something that's going to make adifference.
Or it's not Like trust your gutthat, if you are, if you're
(26:50):
feeling those warm fuzzyfeelings and something is good
going on, then that's a goodthing.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
go with it, and likewise, if it's not like that,
I think, I think, don't dimyour ambition, but maybe accept
that there is different ways toget there.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
That's wise, isn't?
Speaker 1 (27:14):
it Wise women on this couch today.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
I'm going to change my answer with that.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
No, alex, you can go again for that.
You've got a tote bag with thaton now.
You should Do, you know what,honestly, honestly, I've been.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
I've been asked a few questions about um.
You know what, what's thehardest thing in recruitment?
And um.
The hardest thing inrecruitment is and we spoke
earlier about you know how niceit is telling people that
they've got a job.
The worst part is tellingpeople that haven't got a job.
And then, when you don't givethem anything tangible to say
and this is what you could dodifferently it's awful, because
(27:48):
you've invested, you've investedyour time, they've invested
their time and you're not givingthem anything back.
So, um, I coined a bit of aphrase no, with a bow.
And the number of people thatare like oh, we're going to
trademark that, blah, blah, blahyou are known for like the
little um.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I like an analogy yeah, I do like an analogy oh
god, I probably should have donethat.
You know what?
There's too many.
She comes and I'm like they'renot connected.
What do you mean and what, what?
And then you should explain.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, they're not connected and
they're huge and varied um andit probably give you a creepy
insight into my mind if I toldyou, probably, what some of them
are.
But I think, um, again,something, something through
changing the way that we hire,now we have got tangible
outcomes to tell everybody about.
It might be a no, but it's anot right now and this is what
(28:37):
you can do if you want to comeback, or this is what you can do
to improve, and that, for me,that no with a bow and that way
of sort of shaping thatengagement with people through
that experience is really great.
And actually, coming back toyour point about what's your
best advice, I think it's justtry and see things differently.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
And try and imagine things differently, and because
it's been done that way for along time, don't let that limit
what you can do and you caninfluence moving forward.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
I guess it goes back to as well what we were saying
before about asking questions.
You know if you didn't get whatyou wanted or you're not
getting the feedback or theadvice that you need.
If you don't ask questions,you'll never really know.
You should be sat there withthat.
I could have done this, I couldhave done that, and they'll be
like actually none of that wouldhave made any difference,
because what we wanted issomething that you just don't
have and you can go.
Okay, cool, that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
I think positively saying why and positively saying
no are two really strongattributes in people.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
They're coming out now, aren't they?
They're coming out now.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
This is what I have to do on a daily basis.
Sorry about that the wise womanI know.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
But it's true, isn't it Positively saying no, we're
not going to do that?
And saying, but why?
Why do we do it that way?
And I think that's how wearrived at this different way of
hiring now, which is so muchbetter, challenging the
curiosity, because if you keepdoing things the way they are,
we'll keep getting the sameAmazing.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Thank you so much for joining us on the Teal Couch.
Thank you for having us so muchtop tips and advice.
It doesn't matter whetheryou're new into a role or you're
coming back into work or you'reyou know you are thinking I'm
just not sure.
It's okay.
It's okay, but ask thequestions, do your research,
yeah, and be ready with thatreal, super curious question as
(30:23):
well.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
And enjoy who you meet along the way.
Oh, real, super curiousquestion as well.
Yeah, and enjoy who you meetalong the way.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Oh yeah, it's all experience.
At the end of the day, even ifit doesn't work out, it's all
experience for the next one.
It is yeah.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Alex.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Thank you so much to the BT Massive for joining us
today.
Thank you so much for beingamazing partners and always,
always, mega supportive.
So thank you so much forjoining us on the we Are Power
podcast.
Subscribe on YouTube, Apple,Amazon Music, Spotify or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Leave us a review or follow uson socials.
(30:54):
We are power underscore net onInsta, TikTok and Twitter.
We are power on LinkedIn,Facebook and we are underscore
power on YouTube.
Hello, hello and welcome to the we Are Power
podcast.
If this is your first time here, the we Are Power podcast is
the podcast for you, your careerand your life.
We release an episode everysingle Monday with listeners in
over 60 countries worldwide,where you'll hear personal life
stories, top-notch industryadvice and key leadership
insight from amazing role models.
(00:21):
As we Are Power is the umbrellabrand to Northern Power Women
Awards, which celebrateshundreds of female role models
and advocates every year.
This is where you can hearstories from all of our awards
alumni and stay up to date witheverything MPW Awards and we Are
Power.
Well, hello and welcome to thepodcast.
(00:48):
This week, I am delighted to bejoined by the BT Group A
massive.
We have a two for one specialLiz and Alex on the couch.
Now how is it even possiblewith you two to describe each
other in three words sentence.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Do you want to go first?
I can Go on.
I can.
Tenacious, inventive andhumorous.
Oh, I take that.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Oh, I'm waiting for some jokes to be cracking on
through this, Alex.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Oh, I'm under pressure now what would I say
for you?
Oh, and stylish.
I'm going to sneak a fourthword in.
We could hyphenate it rightyeah, tenaciously, stylishly,
funny there you go.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
That sounds good.
I'd go ambitious, direct,straight straightforward, which
I like.
Yeah, I'd say you're humorous.
Direct straightforward, which Ilike.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
I'd say you're humorous as well, and what are
your day jobs?
What do you do?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
So we both work in recruitment for BT.
So we manage teams and stuff tobring in.
Hopefully, good talent is whatwe want to do.
That's our job.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, and you're doing things in a new way now,
aren't you at BT?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah, yeah, we are.
I mean, I've been around theblock a few more times than Alex
.
So I've been in recruitmentsince the late 90s and part of
my role when I joined BT, like ayear and a half ago or so, was
to sort of look at how werecruited and look at how we
could make the process moreinclusive but also, like, more
(02:31):
enjoyable.
You know, you, you go to, yougo to events or you're asked to,
you're asked to coach people oryou know as soon, as soon as
well.
We we normally say we're intalent acquisition and then
people go what does?
Does that mean?
We say recruitment and they'relike, oh right, okay, but when
you start talking to peopleabout their interview
experiences or writing a CV, allof a sudden they're like, oh, I
(02:53):
had a terrible experience.
Interviews have been the worstpart of my life.
Oh, I hate writing my own CV.
So a lot of what I was broughtin to do was reimagine how we
recruit at BT, make it moreinclusive, make it enjoyable and
make it into a process wherepeople can showcase what they
can do rather than wait toalmost fail.
So that's something that wesort of designed together as a
(03:16):
team and we rolled out.
We did a pilot last year andit's it's been phenomenal in
terms of feedback, in terms ofexperience, in terms of what
we've got out of it.
I think, as a recruitment team,we enjoy our jobs a lot more
and we've made really seismicchange in terms of inclusion, in
terms of gender, in terms ofdisability and ethnicity and all
(03:37):
of those great things, becausepeople enjoy it and they can
showcase their skills, not justwhat they do now, but what they
can do in the future.
So we are doing thingsdifferently.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
And did some of that reimagining coming from your own
experience as well of thosethings that you're just saying
they were the horrible things,Do you?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
know what it is.
I've worked at BT for nearly 10years and it's been a really
tough challenge to try andchange anything process-wise
when it comes to the recruitmentpiece.
People want to do it their ownway.
People have been there a whileand I think trying to change
that idea of what is a goodrecruitment process was
something that was quite, youknow, interesting.
People wanted to understand,like, why do we have to change
(04:13):
it like this?
And you think about all thedifferent things you want to
include and, as I said, makecandidates more aware of what
the process would be.
They're not waiting to slip up.
They know how, what to expectfrom us.
They can see what the processmight be like.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
I think that's what's changed massively for that and
actually it's an experience,yeah, and we want it to feel
like an experience rather than awaterfall gateway process, so I
want them to come away and go.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Do you know what?
I might not have got the role,but the process I had, or the
experience I had with the, withthat recruitment team, has been
really good, so it still wouldapply again in the future.
Or I'd also think, do you knowwhat?
I won't change my phone fromthem now, because actually they
work quite good so it's a littlebit of that.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah as well and has there been sort of a good
example that you know you'vecreated this new process and
you've gone?
Oh my gosh, we would never havefound that person or the way
that person presented this.
Yeah that's.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
That's exactly what we wanted?
Yeah, 100%.
There's been situations where amanager would be very convinced
they know who's going to getthe job.
They've got preconceived ideas.
Someone's always going to getit, it's going to be great.
And they go through the processand you know, do you know what?
If you hadn't have done this, Inever would have considered
this other person.
I'm really struggling to make adecision because you've set it
up in such a way that they allhave done really well and it was
(05:25):
completely unexpected andthat's what you want.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
What advice would you give to people watching or
listening out there whether it'sdirectly or it's their, their
family that are maybe just gotresults or due to get results or
something and it's they've thengot to go down this process,
but that it's not who.
They are maybe a bitintroverted or just don't think
they've got the stories to tell.
What's your one top tip youwould give?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I think ask questions .
If you're going through aprocess, don't be afraid to ask
whoever it is that you're goingthrough a process with.
Can you tell me more?
And it's being that, like youknow whatever you're unsure
about or you don't understand,like don't just think, because
they've told you it's this, youhave no choice but to question
anything or get any more detailsthat you feel more comfortable
(06:10):
about what to expect.
I think it's that.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
I think people need to be curious around the process
.
I think they need to look at thetools that are there to succeed
.
So when you think about, youknow we're part of a global
recruitment team behind thewebsite and behind the job
you're applying for will besomebody in the recruitment team
that will want to help you andwill be able to you know give
(06:35):
you top tips about who it isthat you're going to.
There are lots of opportunitiesfor you to delve deeper, not
only about the company that youare looking to join, but also
the people that you're going tomeet as part of that process,
(06:55):
and whether it's looking at howto succeed on a YouTube channel
or using LinkedIn to look atpeople's profiles and really
create those human connections.
People like talking aboutthemselves.
So, going into an interview ifyou know who you're going to
meet and go oh, I had to look atyou on LinkedIn.
This is really interesting.
What did you enjoy about that?
It immediately moves it awayfrom that sort of transactional
(07:19):
into that human interaction, andstraight away you'll feel a lot
more relaxed and you'll be thenbe able to be more yourself,
and people still buy people 100%.
That's got to be the best bitof the job, right?
Yeah, telling somebody they'vegot a job is without doubt the
best part of being inrecruitment.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
When you do, they have got some good news for you.
It's that bit.
It's great because it's lifechanging.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
You know, you sort of think of all of those pivotal
moments where you've made ashift in your career and you
know, I, I've, I've got so manyexamples of so many different
people at different points intheir career.
Um, and it is, it's humblingand heartwarming, it's lovely,
it's really nice.
Alex, you talked about askquestions.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
What are the best?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
the best question you've ever been asked oh, I'm
trying to think, um, but a lotof them will ask me things like
so what they like, like who Imean, what are they like?
Have you got any tips for me,like what kind of thing should I
ask them?
And they really want sometimes,like ask a bit more behind the
scenes type questions, and thoseare kind of things that you
think you know what they reallywant to work for us.
(08:22):
Well, they're really curiousabout this and that's a kind of
like a tick anyway, because youcan see that someone is keen.
Um, so those kind of questionsare quite good, I think.
Yeah, they want to know theinside scoop and sometimes we're
not good at telling our ownstory.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
You've been involved in, yeah, the northern power and
awards and we are powercommunity now and uh, and being
part of that, judging andreading and assessing those
1,600 nominations coming in.
It's a tough thing sometimes tohigh five yourself and tell
your whole story, isn't it?
How is it okay to?
It's not a humble brag, is it?
You've got to go full on brag,haven't you?
(08:55):
Or full on answer a question.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yeah, and I think we're all quite
self-depreciating, aren't we?
I think as Brits we're quiteself-depreciating.
I think as women we're even moreself-depreciating and we're
taught from quite young to, youknow, find humility but sort of
quiet yourself down a little bit.
You know it's the sort of youhave, an assertive man and a
(09:18):
bossy woman, you know, and Ithink sometimes and I say this
to people and I've sort of takenmy own advice as well when you
sort of sat there and you, youknow, you're trying to think
about what would somebody findinteresting in me, and you, you
know, you've maybe had a bit ofa bad day and you know, whatever
, go and ask your supportnetwork.
You know, your friends, yourfamily.
It's a really nice exerciseactually, because you think, oh,
(09:39):
people do see in me, maybe whatI see glimmers of myself.
But doing that is a reallygreat mindset shift and it gives
a sort of outside inperspective from other people to
sort of give yourself a bit ofa pat on the back but actually
give yourself somethingmeaningful to write in those
nominations, because it's hardto sit down with a blank piece
of paper.
It's really difficult whetherit's a CV or a nomination.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
It's a similar process, isn't?
Speaker 3 (10:03):
it in some respects, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Because you're winning, going to win an award
or to profile yourselves or thesame, even if you're only going
to the job for experience or tobuild up sort of that
self-belief.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, it's really tough, though, saying anything
about yourself.
I mean, that's the hardest partof any of it doing interviews,
doing for this it's.
It's tough because you can'tthink of all the good stuff you
have to have.
Sometimes you need someone totell you do you know what you're
actually really good at?
Speaker 3 (10:28):
this, yeah, this is what you should do.
Yeah, and that's always reallyimportant it's nice and what
about the prep?
Speaker 1 (10:34):
so you've changed the process, but still about the
preparation, though, as well,isn't it?
And you said curiosity, which Ithink is one of my favorite
words.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Maybe it's just nosiness me for me, but yeah,
yeah yeah, yeah, I mean there'sa lot, I think you know, for any
business that you're going into, but especially, you know, at
BT and and we have values thatare sort of waving through life
in the business and and um, whatwe've taken a lot of time to do
is bring consistency into theprocess and be super clear, not
(11:04):
just with the managers thatyou're meeting as part of that
experience.
We're telling you the topicsthat you're going to be talking
about in each of those threewhat we're now calling discovery
sessions, because we want tomove away from this sort of
cognizant thing about interviewsbeing sell me this pen, good
cop, bad cop.
(11:24):
Panellists.
You know when you sort of satthere going, oh who do I talk to
?
And I'm really struggling.
We want it to be inclusive andwe want to put you into a
position where we're telling youthe topics.
It's fine to bring in notes,it's fine to prepare ahead of
time.
If you basically want to writethe question down, reflect on
the question and then answer thequestion, absolutely fine.
(11:46):
Set yourself up to succeed andwe want to give people the
permission to do that.
It isn't just about here's aquestion, and what will set you
in good stead is as quickly asyou can answer it yeah, we're
not assessing good interviewpeople.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
You're not good people that can interview.
I'm actually looking about you.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Yeah, it's not a speed test and it's a bit like
you know when you go doing yourGCSEs and it's like most of the
people that fall down in aninterview asked a question that
answered a question that isn'tthe question you asked them
because you're rushing.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
And that's what it is , isn't it?
You panic?
Yeah, in those kind ofscenarios and the whole point of
the process is to try and makeit as relaxing as an interview
can be.
And it's real life, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
If this is a first job, you've maybe not got that
experience.
And so all of a sudden, youknow I love the whole idea.
Take your notes in, take a bitof time.
That's what the world of workis going to be.
You're not put on the spot onday one.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Absolutely, absolutely is going to be.
You're not putting the spot onday one, absolutely, absolutely.
And a really great interviewquestion that I've used in the
past for, um, you know peoplethat are maybe coming out of
education or pivoting in theircareer is tell us something that
you're proud of because you'rean expert in that.
Yeah, so it immediately makespeople feel confident, it makes
them feel an expert on that andit gets them super engaged and
(13:01):
it's really interesting for themanagers you know and you can
have everything from wildcamping to filmmaking to fashion
styling, but they're an expertin that, so immediately lowers
their sort of worry about.
You're asking me to talk aboutsomething that I'm not hugely
confident on Getting it wrong.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Exactly.
None of us want to get it wrong.
Exactly.
So what are you most proud of?
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Ooh, Personally or professionally, it's back to us.
You pick.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Thank you for the question.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Answering questions.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah we always do that.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Let's try.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
I think professionally, hopefully making
making a tangible difference topeople's opportunities to grow
and fulfill their potential.
I would say for me.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
I'm trying to think now.
So I think professionally, Ithink being able to grow myself
professionally because I've hadthree children they're still
quite young children and beingable to do that and have kids
and do big things with our teamat BT and stuff like that and
still being able to manage theback of my head thinking about
(14:17):
other things to do with schooland stuff, so I think
professionally to be able to doany of that.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
I'm like oh my God.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, holding it all together, yeah, basically that's
not what I'm most proud of tobe able to hold it together and
do the family stuff, but stilltry and push forward with your
own career, about what you wantto do and you know.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yeah, that kind of thing and what advice would you
give your you know, not verymany years ago selves, because
you're both whippersnappers.
What advice would you give whenit's sometimes because you talk
Liz about, you know this couldbe coming into sort of a new
role.
It could be straight fromacademia, it could be that pivot
it could be.
(14:53):
Sometimes we can be lost, can'twe?
We're just done in.
Yeah, is that me?
No, that's probably me.
Do you know what?
I think we all, we all, we allwake up with a bit of fatigue
some days, don't we?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
I think, um, when I started in recruitment uh it was
it was quite a male dominatedsector.
Um, it's not anymore helpfully,but I think in the late 90s
when I started, it was very muchto succeed, you needed to be a
(15:25):
certain way.
I think what was helpful atthat period of time is it was
all about figures and finance,so the most successful person in
the room billed the most money.
But there were also behavioursthat went alongside that and I
think it's super easy to lookaround you and say to succeed, I
(15:48):
have to be like that person andI think, looking back in
retrospect, I should have beenmore confident to succeed being
my own person than try toreplicate maybe some people
around me, and I think I don'tdo that so much anymore because
of the confidence that I've sortof that's grown over time, but
(16:08):
also probably the environmentsthat I work in now.
I think we're a lot more open todefinitely at BT, open to being
your authentic self at work,bringing your entire self to
work, talking about life outsidework and how that affects self
to work, talking about lifeoutside work and how that
affects you, know how you showup every day, and I think as a
team, we're quite open to thatand that's a very different
(16:30):
balance to how it used to be andI think if I started my career
in that sort of environment, I'dmaybe I'd probably be in a
different place to where I amnow.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I can see that I think it's the same because I
think I grew up in the samesituation with recruitment,
starting an agency, techrecruitment especially.
It is not necessarily a niceplace to be back then.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
It's brutal.
Really brutal.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah, as you said, like I think, having the ability
to push back and give yourselfa bit of space in those kind of
not so nice environments andmoving to like, yeah, you know,
trust what you need, justbecause you're trying to move
forward in your own career andwhatever, yeah, it's been.
Say like no and that's, that'senough for me, I'm gonna go
somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I don't know.
Inclusion, equity is, is theheart of, yeah, the, the way
we've worked together, isn't it?
You know, oh gosh, liz, you andI personally met all those
years ago in in Angel Square orup there, I remember.
And that was all around.
You know, sort of comingtogether as collaborative unit
around gender equality.
But why is it so important?
(17:35):
You know you've talked abouthow you've changed practices to
be more inclusive forindividuals, showing up for
yourself.
But why is it so important, notjust to have that International
Women's Day or Inclusion Weekor Black History Month?
Or Mental Health Awareness it'snot just for Christmas is it?
Speaker 3 (17:53):
No, it's not, and I think you know, whilst we've
come a long way, there is stillan awful lot more to do.
And Alex mentioned you've gotthree boys, I've got two girls.
I'm sort of coming out of thatsort of you know, later teenage
years and you're oh, I'm stillin the thick of it.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Still, still, still.
Single figures really how youngAlex.
Seven, five and two Wowzers.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yeah, noisy house the three boys as well.
Especially the energy levels isinsane.
Yeah, she comes to work for arestroom.
Yeah, basically yeah there.
There is still a lot more to doand in some ways it's while
it's while.
It's great seeing how far we'vecome in.
In you know, my lifetime, I'mmaking myself sound older than
(18:37):
muthusala or whatever.
But there is still a lot more to, there is still a lot further
to go, and I think we can lookto society and say, oh, you know
, all of this is wrong over hereand this needs fixing and yes,
it does.
But I think you have to sort ofthink okay, well, what can
little old me do in terms of thelittle world that I can
influence, you know, not justbeing the parent to two teenage
(18:57):
girls, but it's, I think it'slike calling things out and
reshaping things for them andmaking them realise that you
know, we're not done yet and westill have to continue pushing
forward and actually, if we allplay a part in that, we'll get
to where we want to go quicker.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Absolutely.
On your own you go fast, buttogether you go far, you do.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
You do.
And, interestingly, you know my, my oldest daughter, is 18 in
November and and somebody saidto her in front of me oh about,
you know this boy and you knowhow bright he was and wasn't
going to do well and so on andso forth.
And they said to her he's thesort of man you want to marry,
amelia, because he's going to bea CEO.
(19:36):
And I literally looked at herand I said Amelia, you can be a
CEO, you don't need to marry one, you should be one.
And she went.
I know mum.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
That's what you want, isn't it?
And it's crazy that thatstatement was even made exactly,
and it wasn't you know, it wasjust.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
It was just a flippant comment, meant with
just you know, just.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
I guess they were just trying to make a little
comment making, yeah, but it wasjust.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Like you know, women don't need to marry CEOs anymore
.
Women are CEOs, whether that'sof their own life or whether
that's at work, and that's thechange that we still need to
make.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, and I think you're right.
We always talk about what wecan do.
There's a big we in the centreof the word power isn't it and?
Power right now can be achallenging word and used in
challenging ways so.
I think we all have thatresponsibility, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yeah, I think it's like building communities within
your own, wherever you can andwhatever it might be, that you
can share experiences to helpsomeone else.
And it could be, as you said,like quite individual, as we're
talking about kids, like peoplewho've come back from work.
I'm really like quite keen tohelp if they've, you know,
feeling a bit, you know, lostand despondent about having to
come back and try and navigateit all.
I'm like, well, I've done thisthree times, it will get better.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
I promise.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
It's more of that, like sharing some of those.
Like you know, it might be areally bad day today, but
tomorrow will be better.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
It's okay.
Communities were made up of somany different parts and.
Dna is made up of so manydifferent parts, and we talked
about this.
I don't know where this isgoing to take us, but talk to me
about how your DNA is made,alex yes, I recently said,
you're simple, aren't you, liz?
I don't mean that in many ways,yeah, I recently did mine.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
So my um, my mother-in-law, bought me as a
birthday present because I'vealways said my family history is
quite mixed and I wanted toknow exactly how it was made up.
So I did that.
So one side of me is verystraightforward I'm 49% Cypriot.
Okay, cool, you know, you can,maybe you can tell that that
makes sense.
But the other side of my familyis a bit more mixed.
So, um, I'm 12% Chinese, whichis exciting, which I did know,
(21:38):
because my my nan does lookChinese, by the way.
But you know, it's to see howit's mixed up, yeah, is like
interesting.
And then now I found out I'm12% Indigenous American, like
native Indigenous, so likenative American.
And I didn't know.
Well, I did know that too, butagain, I didn't know how much,
because you don't know how muchit dilutes as you go through
your area and obviously mygrandparents would tell me all
(22:00):
these different stories and I'mlike that can't be true, like it
doesn't make sense in your mind.
How can you be a bit of thisand a bit of that and a bit of
this?
So yeah, yeah, and has that ledyou to be more curious?
Yeah, because I want to.
So I'm really into, like I wantto go to China now because it
says it's actually the part ofthe region that she's from.
So I want to like understandreally specific.
Yeah, it was really specific,like pinpoint exactly where your
(22:21):
family from, and even in Cyprus, the specific regions of where
my family originated from, andthen they all came over um to
the UK from Trinidad and it saysthat that's that's the more
recent history, because of their, their movement and stuff, and
I'm like, wow, it is quite it'sa lot of things to take off the
um, the old travel list now andyou spent time in Canada, is
that right?
Speaker 3 (22:42):
I did, yeah, so I lived in.
Uh, I lived in Toronto forthree years when, uh, yeah, uh,
the girls were well, we movedthere with my husband's job and
I had three years, I say off,but I was at home looking after
toddlers in a, in a countrywhere I knew nobody.
So, uh, yeah, um, the littleone was six months and the big
one was two when we went um, so,three years, um, yeah, toronto
(23:03):
housewife, it was absolutelyfantastic was it yeah, it's
really good what would you sayis your superpower?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
oh yeah, I don't know when to bring it back to kids
again, but juggling, you have to, I think.
If you're not able to domultitask and to juggle some of
it, I think that's it's quitebig because I'm back in mind.
I'm still thinking about thefact that I've got to pay for a
school trip that's coming up and.
I haven't done it yet.
I think compartmentalisation isa really good skill.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
I think.
Some days I'm better at it thanothers and, similar to you, you
know I feel like I've goteverything worked out and you
know I'm about to go to ameeting and then I get a text
message off one of my kids goingcan you put money on parent pay
?
He's got no money for my schooldinner.
It's like oh um, but I thinkyou know, focusing focusing in
(23:51):
different ways on what'simportant.
I think family work, selfactually, yeah is also important
.
I think that's something thatwe maybe don't think about so
much as working parents.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
I was gonna say look into the future, but it's right
now.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
AI is everywhere, right, yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:04):
AI and it can be very much pulled up as a bad thing
and be pulled up as a you knowsort of a positive thing.
But how do you think itimplements or is impacting on
your professional world, butalso on your personal world?
Does it help?
Speaker 2 (24:17):
you juggle.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
I wish I could figure out a way to make it juggle for
me a bit more um.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I haven't worked out that was any tips more than
interested in the personal one,I mean in work.
It is in recruitment inparticular.
It is a massive hot topic allthe time.
So, like within my, within ourrole in the area that we recruit
for, we do recruit for, like AI, engineers and things like that
, but then within recruitment,there's so many new tools people
want to talk about you know, um, ai, generated CVs and
(24:45):
interviews and things like thatand it's just a minefield of
trying to work out what is goingto give you some better results
but also not take away from thehuman aspect of what we do.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Yeah, I mean it's hugely.
I think it's hugely disruptive.
I mentioned I started in thelate 90s and it was pretty much
with a fax machine, um, you knowwith that white tape over
certain things and, um, I don'teven think my kids would know
what a fax machine actually is.
They look with incredularity ata cd oh, I love an ohp with
(25:19):
those squeaky pens um AI, Ithink in recruitment or talent
acquisition is is it's hugelydisruptive.
And I think for me and probablyfor our team, is certainly the
way that we see it at BT is weuse it in a way that keeps the
people element of the job andjust enables us to go faster.
And I think and I firmly believeyou know, recruitment, talent
(25:41):
acquisition, whatever you wantto call it, ultimately it's
sales at the end of the day andsales has a huge people element
to it, and it's retaining thatpeople element and using AI to
help us extend the amount oftime that we have with the
people that we work with, to putthem into careers at BT or move
their career forward whilstthey're at BT, because we do
(26:02):
internal moves and careerchanges as well.
It's using it in the right wayto free your time up to deliver
value, which is ultimately, Ithink, how we use it and final
(26:24):
question what is the best bit ofadvice that you never received?
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Oh, that's hard, I'd say.
Say, actually, I'm gonna jumpin.
I'm gonna say like trust yourgut and I think, oh, you know,
and what I'm trying to say.
Like people say, oh, it's gonnawork out in the end, like trust
your instinct if you think it'snot, and it's more of that,
like whatever that might be,wherever that takes you, it's
not like trusting you're in theright place or you're not in the
right place, or you're not inthe right place or you're doing
something that's going to make adifference.
Or it's not Like trust your gutthat, if you are, if you're
(26:50):
feeling those warm fuzzyfeelings and something is good
going on, then that's a goodthing.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
go with it, and likewise, if it's not like that,
I think, I think, don't dimyour ambition, but maybe accept
that there is different ways toget there.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
That's wise, isn't?
Speaker 1 (27:14):
it Wise women on this couch today.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
I'm going to change my answer with that.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
No, alex, you can go again for that.
You've got a tote bag with thaton now.
You should Do, you know what,honestly, honestly, I've been.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
I've been asked a few questions about um.
You know what, what's thehardest thing in recruitment?
And um.
The hardest thing inrecruitment is and we spoke
earlier about you know how niceit is telling people that
they've got a job.
The worst part is tellingpeople that haven't got a job.
And then, when you don't givethem anything tangible to say
and this is what you could dodifferently it's awful, because
(27:48):
you've invested, you've investedyour time, they've invested
their time and you're not givingthem anything back.
So, um, I coined a bit of aphrase no, with a bow.
And the number of people thatare like oh, we're going to
trademark that, blah, blah, blahyou are known for like the
little um.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I like an analogy yeah, I do like an analogy oh
god, I probably should have donethat.
You know what?
There's too many.
She comes and I'm like they'renot connected.
What do you mean and what, what?
And then you should explain.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, they're not connected and
they're huge and varied um andit probably give you a creepy
insight into my mind if I toldyou, probably, what some of them
are.
But I think, um, again,something, something through
changing the way that we hire,now we have got tangible
outcomes to tell everybody about.
It might be a no, but it's anot right now and this is what
(28:37):
you can do if you want to comeback, or this is what you can do
to improve, and that, for me,that no with a bow and that way
of sort of shaping thatengagement with people through
that experience is really great.
And actually, coming back toyour point about what's your
best advice, I think it's justtry and see things differently.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
And try and imagine things differently, and because
it's been done that way for along time, don't let that limit
what you can do and you caninfluence moving forward.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
I guess it goes back to as well what we were saying
before about asking questions.
You know if you didn't get whatyou wanted or you're not
getting the feedback or theadvice that you need.
If you don't ask questions,you'll never really know.
You should be sat there withthat.
I could have done this, I couldhave done that, and they'll be
like actually none of that wouldhave made any difference,
because what we wanted issomething that you just don't
have and you can go.
Okay, cool, that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
I think positively saying why and positively saying
no are two really strongattributes in people.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
They're coming out now, aren't they?
They're coming out now.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
This is what I have to do on a daily basis.
Sorry about that the wise womanI know.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
But it's true, isn't it Positively saying no, we're
not going to do that?
And saying, but why?
Why do we do it that way?
And I think that's how wearrived at this different way of
hiring now, which is so muchbetter, challenging the
curiosity, because if you keepdoing things the way they are,
we'll keep getting the sameAmazing.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Thank you so much for joining us on the Teal Couch.
Thank you for having us so muchtop tips and advice.
It doesn't matter whetheryou're new into a role or you're
coming back into work or you'reyou know you are thinking I'm
just not sure.
It's okay.
It's okay, but ask thequestions, do your research,
yeah, and be ready with thatreal, super curious question as
(30:23):
well.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
And enjoy who you meet along the way.
Oh, real, super curiousquestion as well.
Yeah, and enjoy who you meetalong the way.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Oh yeah, it's all experience.
At the end of the day, even ifit doesn't work out, it's all
experience for the next one.
It is yeah.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Alex.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Thank you so much to the BT Massive for joining us
today.
Thank you so much for beingamazing partners and always,
always, mega supportive.
So thank you so much forjoining us on the we Are Power
podcast.
Subscribe on YouTube, Apple,Amazon Music, Spotify or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Leave us a review or follow uson socials.
(30:54):
We are power underscore net onInsta, TikTok and Twitter.
We are power on LinkedIn,Facebook and we are underscore
power on YouTube.
Popular Podcasts
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com