Reconsidering John Calvin: A Conversation with Ruben Rosario Rodriguez

This is Episode Ten of Season Three, featuring Dr. Ruben Rosario Rodriguez, the Clarence Louis and Helen Steber Professor in Theological Studies at St. Louis University. He holds a Ph.D. in Systematic Theology from Princeton Theological Seminary (2004). Dr. Rodriguez is also a Presbyterian minister. 

Ruben is also an expert in the work of John Calvin, the divisive 16^th century reformer from France who became a major figure in Geneva during the Reformation of the 16^th century. Today we are discussing his book Calvin for the World: The Enduring Relevance of His Political, Social, and Economic Theology.  As I mentioned, Calvin is divisive, for some people a hated figure, often based upon his view of double predestination, that is, God's absolute sovereignty in the salvation or damnation of the human soul and his role in the death of Michael Servetus. Ruben’s book is an attempt to give a fuller representation of who Calvin is and what he actually says.

I invited Ruben on not just because we share a great love for 70s punk rock, the Ramones, Tom Verlaine, and many others, but because I heard he had taped a podcast with a Calvinist leaning podcast that then reneged on posting the podcast, perhaps because of certain theological disagreements. That did sit right with me: this podcast is about asking questions and getting to know people and what matters most to them. We do not have to share all of our beliefs in common to befriend each other or to listen to each other. I enjoyed our conversation and I really enjoy Dr. Rodriguez’s honesty and integrity as a person and as a theologian.

I knew little about John Calvin prior to my conversation with Ruben, but I know a lot more now, even if I am only scratching the surface and though I am no Calvinist. But it is good to get to know people better, especially historical figures who have shaped our world and our thought in ways perhaps even unknown to us, and especially figures who often just function as stereotypes in our thoughts. For me his book fulfilled its major stated goal: “to correct many of the misconceptions about Calvin perpetuated by an inadequate knowledge of his work.”

Others more expert in Calvinism than me will know more about many of the issues Ruben and I discussed, but I appreciated his book and its consideration Calvin’s Theology of Public Life and how his analysis of Psalm 82:3-4 “fits” with a preferential option for the poor and liberation theology; though I’m still not sure why Calvin does not think it proper to topple tyrannical governments, Ruben presented Calvin’s view of “two kingdoms” as an argument for seeing Calvin as a proto-liberationist with respect to illegitimate governments that act contrary to the word of God. I appreciated the connections between liberation theology, Archbishop Romero, and Calvin’s theology of civil governance.

I was also intrigued by Calvin’s desired “egalitarian communal structure” and his rejection of “authoritarian absolutism in either the Church or the State” and Ruben’s argument that Calvin could be seen in favor of religious toleration.

Ruben also offered an interesting comparison between Bartolomeo de Las Casas and Calvin with respect to treatment of indigenous people and others. It’s an interesting point, as later in South Africa Calvinism played a role in the building of the apartheid state of South Africa. Yet, Ruben argues and shows the ways in which Calvin’s thought also inspired resistance to white Christian nationalism. The events in Sharpeville and especially Soweto emerged from African Christians in the movement to take down apartheid. Alan Boesak, the African Calvinist