Episode 40 | Lessons From A Former CMO: Escape Corporate Burnout & Chase Your Dreams | Jessica Joines, Author of Dare to Believe: 12 Lessons For Living Your Soul Purpose - What Nobody Tells Us

Episode Transcript
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>> Christie Bishop, Host (00:02):
I'm Christie Bishop, and you're listening to the what
nobody tells us podcast. Each
week, I'll be exploring a topic that's often
stigmatized, misunderstood, or simply
left unaddressed. And we're gonna be shedding light on the things that
nobody tells us but that everyone should know.
Let's get started.

(00:24):
Have you ever felt like you're running on
this hamster wheel, like you're chasing
success, you're chasing fulfillment, you're chasing
achievement? Maybe because it's what you were told to do
as a kid. Maybe it's because you feel like it's what
you're supposed to do as an adult. Maybe
it's because it's what society expects of you.

(00:44):
And if you. You know, it's what your ego
is driving you to do. Because if you're not successful, if you don't make
a ton of money, if you don't have the title, if you don't have the whatever,
whatever it might be, but has it just
left you just burnt out
or feeling lost, feeling aimless and
asking yourself, like, is this all there

(01:04):
is? Like, for what? What am
I doing this for? Now, this might sound
existential on my part, and it has been
in the past, certainly. It's not anymore today, thank goodness.
I'm thrilled to say that, mostly
because I have had a very similar experience to my
guests today. and we are going to talk about
questioning your purpose and yearning for

(01:26):
something more and finding, out
what you are supposed to do in your time on
this little planet, because I promise
you, it's not to aimlessly
chase success or achievement and yet feel
awful every single day doing it, that's your first clue.
If you do not feel excited when you wake up in the

(01:46):
morning, if you feel like your energy is being dragged
and you're just exhausted all the time and you feel off
course, I can guarantee you you are, and we're going to help
get you onto course.
So, in today's episode, we're
diving deep into the journey of self
discovery and the journey of purpose. And my guest is
Jessica joines. She and I have lived very

(02:07):
similar lives. Jessica is a former advertising
executive. She's turned a spiritual coach, and she's also
founder of the women's purpose community. She used to be the
chief marketing officer for Rakuten. So she knows
from corporate burnout, she knows advertising
agency life just like I have. She knows long
hours, crazy demands, and
really almost extinguishing your

(02:30):
pilot light, your soul's pilot light for your job.
but today we're here to talk about the fact that Jessica
has an incredibly powerful story of breaking free from
the shackles that I just described. Not just burnout, but also
alcoholism. And she has really embarked on this
transformative journey that led her to
find her true calling. And she talks about that, in

(02:51):
great detail with very tangible steps
that you can take to do the exact same thing. She used to have
panic attacks. My God, so did I in my corporate
life. and then she took this. It was almost like eat, pray, love.
But it's not that exactly. She took a life
changing solo trip through southeast Asia, and
it changed everything for her. And her story is
genuinely a testament to the power of listening to your

(03:13):
heart, like getting out of your head and listening to your heart and
daring to believe in yourself. we talk about
the concept of ascension collectively, and if that
doesn't make any sense to you right now, that's totally fine. It will. As we
chat about it, we explain it and unpack
it. We talk about the importance of vulnerability.
And like I mentioned, practical steps are shared
to uncover your soul's purpose in the way that Jessica has. In

(03:36):
the way that I have as well. She also shares insights from
her book, which is called dare to twelve lessons for
living, your sole purpose. her book really offers
a guide. It's a guide to navigating your own journey of
self discovery. And if you're feeling stuck, if you're feeling in
the in between, or you're just really wanting a deeper
connection to who you really are authentically,

(03:57):
this episode is for you. It's going to inspire
you to take that leaf of faith. It's going to inspire you to have
trust in your journey. trust the process,
and most importantly, trust yourself. And
listen. Get quiet and listen for
answers. Because that's when the answers come through, is when you get
quiet. So get ready to challenge your skepticism

(04:17):
here. This is a bit woo woo, and that's okay. We all
need that. But it will also open your mind to a new way
of thinking about success, about fulfillment,
and about your own purpose. I really hope you enjoyed this episode
as much as I did taping it.
So here we are. Here's the episode with Jessica joins.

(04:40):
Hi, Jessica. Welcome to what nobody tells us.

>> Jessica Joines (04:43):
I'm so glad to be with you today.

Thank you. Me too. the timing for this conversation
could not be better. I feel like there's so many people in the in
between right now. In fact, I actually just recorded a post
this morning and posted it to LinkedIn. Be a few weeks
later, obviously, when this comes out, but about what to do when
you're in the in between, because whether it's like, looking for a job
and my God, there's so many people looking for jobs, and just, like,

(05:06):
what has worked in the past hasn't worked, or just life in
between. Like, who am I? What is the next
evolution of my life? Like, I feel like your story
is going to be so resonant to people.

Yeah. Look, and I hope we get to it because that in
between and actually being in the in between is so, important
to the journey. Right? Yeah, yeah. To be with you
today.

Thank you.
So, okay. We've got similar backgrounds in terms of advertising,
and I just want to jump right into your advertising
journey because it's led to a completely different kind of
soul revolution and, like, leading you to your purpose, which is,
I feel very similar for me, too, but talk about your experience
in advertising. Like, did you love it? Did you not?
Like, what was it like?

Yeah. And by the way, like, synchronicity is such
a thing. Like, I was just blown away when we first
connected, like, how similar the journey is. So,
no coincidence that we're talking today, right? So my
journey, you know, and I always say this, like, anyone who works in
advertising or is in the space, like, no offense, it just
wasn't for me. And the kind

(06:05):
of sad but funny, but, you know, you put a
few words to it. Thing is, I realized it
right away. And so in my very first,
like, out of grad school job at one of the
top ten agencies for those that are in advertising,
this is back when media and creative were one
full shop. you know, when I was in that, and I
had panic attacks within the first year.

(06:28):
Now, I was young,
like, panic attacks to the er kind of panic attacks,
and got diagnosed with anxiety
disorder. All these things story for another time.
But the thoughts that were in my mind at the time was like, oh, my God,
I can't believe this is my life. Oh, my
God, I made a mistake. I can't believe this is going
to be like, it, like what I'm going to do every

(06:50):
day. But I already
felt trapped in it and didn't know what to do because
at that time, in my perspective, I had invested,
you know, undergrad, graduate school
to study and go for this thing, you know, money,
time.

Yeah.

And I was operating in
both a, survival and scarcity consciousness.
So when I went to study something at college, I didn't
think, like, what do I love? Who am I? And what do
I love? And I want to express that. I was like, what can I be
good at? That I could kind of like and
make money? And it was still that mentality

(07:27):
that kept me in it, you
know? so it was quite a journey.

What about it was driving the panic attacks?
Like, do you remember specifically whether the way you were treated, was it
just the type of work?

You know, it was never really. Yeah. And I mean,
look, you know, I definitely worked at agencies, some that were
pretty toxic and all of that. It was like my
soul was screaming out, like, this isn't
you, you know? And it was,
not under. I didn't even have the
vocabulary to think that I should be
doing something I love so I could. I didn't have the conscious

(08:02):
awareness at the time, but in hindsight, being 2020, it's
what it was. It's that I have a very passionate soul. I'm
a very passionate person, and I feel very
deeply, and this was, like, not feeding my
soul.

Yeah.

Though I didn't have those words at the time or understanding, of
course.

It's so interesting to me because I have the
exact same thing. but it took time. I'm 44
now. It took time to really be able to, like you said, put
words to that. But it almost, for me, just
for people listening, who may be experiencing a similar thing.
Like anxiety. Yes, of course,
there's, like, genuine anxiety disorders, but at least for me, it
felt like a fight or flight in my body. Like,

(08:40):
sometimes I would describe it as, like. Like itching out
of my own skin. Like, if I knew I was just
headed in the absolute, maybe it wasn't even this.
My soul was telling me I was headed in the wrong direction, but I didn't know
what that meant. I just knew, like, I hated
this, right? Like, towards the end, or I hated I was being
marginalized or gaslit or, you know, being brought

(09:01):
in to fix the number as the number two, fix a man's
mess. Like, that happened a few times, and
finally I was like, oh, no, this is my body
actually rejecting my work that I'm doing
because I'm not meant to do this and I'm excellent at. But I'm not meant to
do it. But people typically will try to mute
those feelings or cope in really unhealthy
ways. And I know that you turned to alcohol

(09:23):
as one. Other people turn to drugs, other people turn to sex,
whatever it might be. Can you talk about that coping
mechanism back then?

Yeah. And to clarify, like, I definitely.
The way that I view alcoholism, which is something that
I absolutely have. I don't
attribute it to being unhappy in my job
whatsoever. I was an alcoholic long before
my advertising career. I was an alcoholic the first time I
drank, at 16. So that's the way I view
the disease. Cause I view it as a genetic

(09:53):
a thing that lives within me. So my relationship to alcohol was
never normal from the start. did it
grow and become worse at that time?
Yeah, definitely. But the disease is
progressive, so I think it would have been
happening regardless. however,
yeah, I mean, that I think almost I was able to

(10:14):
stay in it so long because I was also suffering
from alcoholism. So when you're in active
alcoholism, you're very numb to life. You're not
present, you know, all the things, you know, whether
you're actually incapacitated or not, you
know, it's a state of being when you're in that.
So, yeah, so for me, it's, like, not the cause. but
it was definitely, you know, if you like, a spiral,

(10:36):
they were weaving in and out of each other. And I think
if I, had gotten sober
younger, because as soon as I did get sober,
I left. Right. I don't think I would have stayed in it
for so long. I would have had more capacity to
have the self awareness, to have some of the realizations
I had later on.

Yeah.
What drove you to get sober?

M just pain. Pain and suffering like it always
does, you know. Unfortunately, it's a disease,
like we like to say, and those of us that. That make it to
recovery, there's a bodily,
a physical part and a mental part. The physical is the
allergy. It's that when I drink, I'm not like normal
people. I have, and science shows it. Now

(11:19):
I have, a part of my brain that the
craving is activated to a next level
degree, that I can't control it. And that was always there.
But the mental part is delusion. It's.
I have a disease that likes to tell me I don't have a
disease. So when I see, like,
you know, people that, you know, that are
alcoholics that are now homeless and

(11:41):
people, normal people be like, what? Like, what are
they doing? I understand that because they might
very much still not have been able to see that they have
alcohol, even though it's the most obvious thing, right.
The mental delusion that accompanies it. And I know it. I know what
it feels to be insane is next level, right. the
only thing that can eventually break through is,

(12:01):
like, enough pain. So hitting a bottom
right and you have these, what we call sometimes moments
of clarity where you see it. And
then if you can get help in that moment, like, that's
then the path to cover recovery. And that's
essentially what happened for me.

Who was that person or the
resource that you used in your bottom to help reach you
out of the hole?

M myself, really. I reached out
to someone. I knew I reached out to someone and
asked for help. And, I had
known her from trying to get sober about a decade
earlier. And, you know, I was living in
New York City at the time she came over.
I had done other recovery before, and

(12:46):
knew I wanted to. Knew I needed to go to a
detox and wanted to go to rehab. And she just basically,
within 24 hours, helped me get there.
But, yeah, I didn't have, like, an intervention or any of these kinds of
things. It was very much, something that I came to terms
with, on my own. Enough to ask for help
and get help in that quick kind of a
window.

Yeah. I mean, that's often the hardest step, is like, you
know, acknowledging it and reaching out to somebody because
it's so much vulnerability and
sometimes, you know, perceived shame or
feigned shame right. In that, and it's like,
no, you just have to do it. My grandfather was an
alcoholic, and he m died of alcoholism. I never met him. He died before
I was born, when my mom was 21. So, like,

(13:28):
I understand it from my mom's perspective,
but not directly. Right. But, like, I always wanna be careful
when I'm drinking as well because it runs in my family too.
Yeah.
what about the parallel, path of
that? Cause you were still working in advertising, obviously not
liking it and feeling, like, immensely burned out. So
what point in time after that

(13:48):
sobering up or recovery did you decide, like, I'm done with
this. This is not for me.

Yeah, well, it wasn't such, like, a linear process.
And there were, you know, I talk a
lot about this in my book. It's like I had
three. Three attempts to, like, try to exit the
matrix, so to speak.
And the first one was two years after these panic
attacks in my twenties. I actually left and

(14:13):
I look back and I'm like, wow, that was so
courageous because I felt very trapped, even though,
like, hindsight 2020 had my whole life ahead of me.
But, you know, the mentality at the time was, like, I went to
call, I done all this. Like, I was in this forever.
Like, I would be a failure if I didn't.
But I did leave and I pursued one of my very first

(14:34):
passions, which was acting, and I was living in San
Francisco at the time I moved to LA. I did
that. You know, that could be a podcast in and
of itself, but net. Net, like, I learned a lot about
myself. I pursued, like, one of my true
passions. I saw that I loved it as
an art farm, but not as, like, a professional
pursuit. And. But what happened is, like,

(14:57):
I didn't know what to do. I went back into advertising. Right,
totally.

The pull is strong.

Yeah. So that was, like, attempt number one, and then I
was definitely miserable in it. But it's like, I
got, you know, the alcohol definitely helps, but I got, like, just
in this, like, complacency, and I started
settling, you know, mentally, energetically. I was like, well, this is
life. This is what being an adult is like. All this is what you
do, you know, you suffer through your job, you suffer
for a paycheck. And I just did that even though

(15:24):
I some days, like, dreaded
it, like, hated it, kind of like how you mentioned, but
definitely, like, never liked it, if I'm really being honest
with myself.
and attempt number two, and this is the big
one, though not the final one, is about
this time. I'm about 35 and living in New York
City, and this was, the most

(15:45):
intense work hours of the whole time. I
was running business development, a very,
like, 24/7 kind of a job with the nature
of the ad industry. And so I was working 60
to 80 hours a week. I was there, you know, late at
night, cleaning folks would come in and leave, and I'd
still be there. I was there on the weekends, really

(16:06):
reaching burnout and, and really miserable in it.
And I was laid off.

Oh, my God. Of course you are.
It's always the business development folks who work the hardest and get laid
off first because it's not billable, you're not
tied to accounts. Oh, my God. It's like, like, yeah, okay.
So predictable and so awful.

Yeah. Well, you want to know the funniest thing?

Yeah.

It's like a couple months. Not even before
I was saying to a friend, because I, you know, I was smart by this
time. I'd pre negotiated my severance package, like, when I
took the job, and I was like, God, I wish they'd just lay
me off. I would take that severance, and I would go travel for
a year.

Yeah.

And then it was put in front of me, and
I. It took me, like, a week, but I was like, oh, no, I'm
traveling for a year, and I did, and I bought a one way
ticket to Vietnam and had a very
spiritual soul realizing. And that's when I
started to wake up to the notion of purpose. And I
never worked at an ad agency again after that.

Oh, my God.
Okay, so let's talk about the Vietnam trip.

Yeah, right?

Like, so there. There's this moment I would like. I
can only speak for myself if it's like, okay, the
severance package is put in front of you. You had the wherewithal
to negotiate it beforehand, which is also, like, fy
for anyone who's, like, an executive running, like, a high power job.
If you're about to go into a new one, always, always
negotiate your exit package first because you're not going to be there for

(17:26):
a thousand years. Most likely it's going to be two or three, and they're going to, like,
unmercifully, you know, let. Let you out, push you
out, whatever. So you've negotiated this. This money falls in
your lap, and you're like, I'm out of here. Like,
I'm going to go live my life in a way that I haven't done before.
What was your mindset, like when you booked the. And why
Vietnam?

So, Okay, so first it's like, my
heart was like, you got to go do this now. Definitely
my head. And then a lot of the egos of,
you know, the collective ego of those around me were like,
you're 30. Like, what are you doing a gap year? You
know? Like, you're right. And
so there was definitely that energy. Like, you're gonna have a gap

(18:05):
on your resume. Like, what? You're like, that fear energy.

Yeah.

And I was just, like, I could. Like, I couldn't. Like, I
had to do it. It was such a calling. Like, I
couldn't ignore. And
Vietnam, I had been in Thailand on vacation, I think,
two years before that, and I had just
fallen in love with Southeast Asia. And I just,
like, I don't know. It was just another
calling, like, an intuitive hit. Like, I'm starting in. I didn't

(18:30):
stay in Vietnam the whole time. I'm starting in Vietnam. Like, that's where to
go. And it was just a feeling. There was not
a lot of linear thought in it. In all honesty,
that's so.

Okay, I'm just going to share a parallel really quickly, and then I want to share
all about Vietnam and, like, where you kind of start to wake up to, like,
your sole purpose. So when I left my
last big role, it was coming up two years ago in May.
I was just, And I just even hate this language, but you'll
understand what I mean. I was going to take a break, like, using air
quotes and the fear mindset of everyone

(19:00):
around me, like, thank God, not my husband, who's very
much, like, trusting and faithful because we've just seen so much
good stuff and things are meant to happen as they happen on his cancer
journey. And the amount of people that are like, what?
What? You're taking a break for how long? How are you, how long are you
taking off? And it's like they kept putting it in this term,
these terms of how long you taking off work, taking
off work. How long are you not going to work? Well, when are you going to start to work? When are

(19:23):
you going back? And it's like we've been
programmed to only focus on being
like, these cogs in a wheel of,
productivity for companies who then we
exchange our time as a currency and our, like,
wherewithal and our intelligence for their money and their
insurance. And it's like, if you dare to get out of that
system, people freak.

Freak out.

I wasn't ready for how much other people freaked
out, and I started to have to shut people down. I
was like, okay, first of all, what am I gonna
do? I'm gonna live my life. I'm gonna live my life the
way that I'd like to live it. How long is that gonna last? I don't
know. I'm not retired. But I called it my, like, in
between retirement, just because it made people very

(20:06):
upset. So it kind of was gonna trigger other people.
But you went to Vietnam. It's interesting.

Yeah. And, you know, now I use a lot more
discernment in general of who I share things
with, in all honesty.
yeah. And to your point, like I was saying, greece. I'm like, I feel like
I'm just a robot going through the motions. I used to always say I feel like I'm a
robot. But I went to Vietnam, and this is where my mindset was.
I mean, it was, when I decide to

(20:33):
do something, I have a. My personality. I can be very
daring. I can be spontaneous. I can be very passionate. Like, that's my
innate things. And I was like, I'm letting my
true self, like, shine in this. And so I only bought a one way ticket.
Oh, my God. I decided
I didn't know if I was coming back. I was gonna come back when I felt like it.
So I didn't even go thinking it was gonna be a year at

(20:53):
the time. It ended up being a little under a year, but I
didn't go with that either. And I was like, I'm just
gonna see what happens if I never come back, that's fine, too.

Yeah. Yes. Isn't it funny that, like, when
people think about these types of decisions, you're like, oh, I'm gonna go for
a year. We have no idea what's going to happen
tomorrow. So it's like, I just encourage people to
go with the feeling today. What's the
feeling today? Get to tomorrow. When tomorrow comes, see
what your feeling is tomorrow. You're like, oh, shit, this was a mistake. I got to
go home. You follow that feeling, but, like, life gives you

(21:24):
these breadcrumbs that so many people just
ignore or, like, try to numb, which makes me
crazy. So when you. When you got there and
you're like, I'm just going to explore and figure it out. What started to
happen?

Yeah. Well, the beautiful thing is,
I had a really good friend. I went to graduate school
with, French. Ah, woman. And she was in between jobs,
so living in Paris, she met me. So I spent the
first six weeks, like, literally, with her, backpacking
through Vietnam. And, you know, we
started in Ho Chi Minh, but we actually, Yeah, ho Chi Minh, but we

(21:57):
actually, you know, flipped to the top and then did the. There's, like,
two ways to go. Did the whole thing. And that was just fun. That was just
like, relax, let go, all of
that. And then from there, and I kind of had
this in my mindset that I knew I had another really good
friend that at the time, ran a nonprofit that
organized long term volunteer experiences,

(22:17):
and he had a big foothold in Cambodia, so I knew I was
going to make my way there and volunteer
in an orphanage that he was affiliated with
at some point there. And so, that's where I
went next, and that is where,
Yeah. Cause now I'm solo at this point where a
lot started to awaken

(22:38):
within me a bit,
of just reassessing how I was thinking
about life, who I was,
what I wanted to do. The biggest awareness
came later on, in India, and then
where I. I ended in Bali. but that's where
I just started to wake. And seeing so many expats and other
people's, like, living these different lives. Yeah, it just started

(23:01):
to shift my perceptions about things a bit.

Do you remember any, like, granular
moments that were, like, some of the most pivotal
moments for you when you started this awakening? Because
it's like, you never know when they're going to come but they almost become, like, core
memories, like our daughter loves inside out. Like, you think about the
core memories or, like, you know, core memory islands, whatever.
Do you remember any of those tiny moments?

Yeah, one of the most profound. And it was at the
end. And it's also when I, started feeling
it was to come back, but I was
staying, like, I remember it perfectly. I
was. I, was staying in
Bali, and it was. I ended up renting a house
there, but it was before I even did that. so it was like my.
Must have been my first week or two in Bali. And it's like,

(23:45):
this open, like, the places there are crazy. This open kind of
treehouse like thing. I'm
sitting and I'm meditating, and I
started hearing, the truth in your
heart is more real than the one you see.
And that really started waking. And
that mantra, those words have taken on so many

(24:06):
different meanings for me. And at the time, it was
like, believe in the dreams in your heart. No
matter what the world. The limitation is saying
since then, it's like, this is all, you know,
really under. You know, what they say in yogic traditions, like, this is
all Maya. This is all illusion. The only place
to create from is my heart. I'm not reacting

(24:26):
to this world anymore. And creating from it, like,
that was now, like, part of, like, why I was
suffering, why I was living in, like, a lower level
consciousness. But at the time, it was really, like, believe in your
dreams, you know? And. And
that grew, and Bali was just all of it
was a very spiritual awakening place

(24:47):
for me.

I've heard I have a friend in Bali right now who's posting
these stunning photos about, but similar.
She's like, this is my portal.

This is a lot of energy portals
there. I didn't realize this at the time, but now looking
back, I'm like, oh, that's what was going on, too.

Yeah.
If you can describe your mindset shift from
Vietnam to Cambodia to India to Bali, as you went
through that, almost your journey and kind of opening
up, how would you. How would you describe it, the
evolution of it? Because it doesn't happen overnight like you've mentioned.

Yeah, well, look, it was not like, you know, I was
really inspired at the time by eat, pray, love. Like,
mine was not that, you know, I was still drinking at the
time, you know. You know, even though it was. Felt
more. More, subdued, part of my alcoholism
that was still there, you know, fell in love at one
point that didn't work out. So there was, like,
happiness, suffering,

(25:41):
awakening. Like, it was, like, all the
things. And it was a lot, but if I
summarize it, you know, I went there
to, like, recover, like, restore
myself, from just being in
this endless cycle of, like, burnout, like,
every day, like, trudging through.

Yeah.

So it started to, like, feel freedom and to feel connected
to my soul to the end, to just
start. To have courage to come
back and start to
pursue my dreams. And what that meant for me at the time, which
was not going back to advertising, and at the time,
like, pursuing a more entrepreneurial endeavor, which

(26:21):
is where I ended up going to.

Yeah.

But, you know, it was, And also just the,
strength of traveling on my own,
you know, and, through all these countries
and the, courage and independence
and just, like, the strength that I felt in
myself of being able to do that.

Yeah. I mean, and that's not an easy thing to do.
Right. Because it sounds so romantic, and I. You took
the words out of my mouth. It's like, this is such your eat, pray, love moment, which
is. And. But in her. Her experience as
well. Yeah. There's up, downs. There's all around
100%. Right. Like, can you. Can you
detail out, like, one of the hardest moments of that journey? And then I want to
get into. Into your book and send, your entrepreneurial

(27:03):
journey as well.

Yeah, the hardest moment. And just, you know, out
of respect for him, I won't go into too much detail. But was, you know, when
this relationship that I. I really thought there was
going to be a big future in didn't work out.
Yeah.

Did you have it?

I didn't come back with the boyfriend, like she, you know, or the husband. I
was like. And it was right in the middle of the journey.

Oh, my gosh. Was he in the States?

No,

Was.

No, no, From a different country, living abroad.

Okay. But he wasn't traveling with you at all, so. But that.

No, no, no. Yeah, got it.

Okay.

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh.
So you literally were on the solo journey and then, like, a real
solo journey.

Yes.

Like, yes. So when you decided to come
back, did you have any
idea what you wanted to do next or a feeling
in terms of where life was taking you?

Yeah. And I think this is important for those listening, so. Because
it's like the mind always wants to think its way
into purpose, and that has not been my experience,
though. I sure as hell tried a lot at the time,
but what was great, it was like, I knew what I didn't want to do, and
sometimes that's really important. And it was for me at that time, like,
I knew I was not going back into the ad agency

(28:10):
world. I knew that I wanted something
that truly, like, sparked me that, and that
I would be open to that. And so I remain. I started
remaining in this open state. I didn't. What I do now,
like really have like a vision, like an articulation
of this is what I want. Like going into
my heart and being honest with myself about what I really

(28:31):
wanted came later. but, you know, I was
open to this. Like, you know, it was more of a feeling
of a curiosity of it. And so something was
put in front of me of an entrepreneurial endeavor and
I did that and I ended up doing that for a couple years.

What was it?

So, it was a company that
focused primarily on marketing and sales
consulting at the time. The emerging ad tech
space.

Oh, interesting, right?

Not so emerging anymore, but circa
20 2011,
2012.

Yeah, okay, okay.

Yeah, yeah.

It's funny, you were like, I didn't go back to the advertising agency, but I ended up
doing consulting, which is a lot more. There's a lot more freedom in
that.

Yeah. So I learned a lot. Like, yeah, I
love the freedom. And, you know, I, became a co founder
of this company. I loved all of
that, but. And again, it's like, I'll kind of cut to the
end. a little bit of that advertising
marketing journey is when I was in
that we had this startup
client that got bought by this massive

(29:33):
company, Rakuten.

Yeah.

And this client loved me. And when they got
acquired, he's like, I'm staying on. I want you to come be
the global CMO and
massive opportunity. And it took,
they talked to me. It took me seven months, I think, to make this decision.
Like, the japanese CEO's interview, they were
frustrated with me by the end, they wanted me for

(29:56):
it because I was like, now I realize I was just
battling this. But anyway, I ended up
saying yes. And it was the best thing I ever
did because I then worked for this
company and in the past and I didn't get into this much detail,
you talked about it a little bit more. I had been
distracted in the past by the toxic people, the
toxic workplaces. Like, I thought, like, maybe that's the

(30:18):
problem. And I go work for Rakuten, which is this
incredible company. Like, never been treated so well, like
a family, like the best company I
ever worked for. And it got me to then go
be really honest with them, go, oh,
it's actually like, it was such a duh. Moment.
But, like, it's not just advertising. It's like this

(30:38):
whole corporate, like, marketing, this whole thing.
Like, I'm never gonna have passion for it.
I'm not gonna find it somewhere. It just doesn't exist.
Yeah, I don't have it. It's not me. And it was just even
though I'd been there all along, but it got me to really finally admit
that to myself. And so, you know, after a
few years at Rakuten is when I left

(30:59):
into, you know, a version of what I'm doing
today.

Yeah.
So I want. I want to get a little woo woo for a second.

Yeah.

which you and I love both, and I think a lot of the listeners
love, too. So part of this is, you know, obviously,
like, journeying for a journey from burnout and addiction
to, like, awakening. And then there's this word
ascension as well, which I don't think a lot of people are.
They're familiar with it, but maybe don't know exactly
what that means. So, like, can you talk a little bit about
when you started to, Maybe it was always

(31:29):
understand, like, when you could feel
collective energy and, like, kind of the ascent. And
we'll get into the ascension part, too. But, like, when did you start to notice that
that was something you could actually, like, identify with and actually
feel?

Yeah, it was 2017, August. And I'll be real
specific with you. I mean, it's a day I'll never forget.

Oh, my God.

Yeah. And I'll, Just for the
purpose, for anyone who's watching or listening, look,
I'd always been a spiritual seeker. I wasn't raised with, like,
any specific anything, but once I hit my
twenties, I became a real spiritual seeker
living here in Los Angeles, and, you know,
really got into, you know, what's now called the woo. Then it was
like, emerging, like, new age, whatever.

(32:11):
And it just spoke to me, and it spoke to me,
I think, because it appreciated all teachings and all
religions. So I went to agape, which I think, you
know, we've talked about.

Yeah.

And you would talk about, like, every teacher that ever
master teacher that ever lived, and it was like, no
discrimination. It's just like, it's all truth. It all
matters. And it would always talk about, this new age is
coming, where there's just going to be this time. That's the whole thing. A
new age, teaching a new age is coming. This time of
elevated consciousness.

Yes.

Where we're all going to embody more of the soul
within versus, like, the ego,
personality, self. And we're going to be
what, like all these ascended masters have been saying we're here
to do, hey, one day you're going to learn to be the consciousness.
I am. That time is coming. So I'd always
understood that on an intellectual level
when the book a New Earth by Eckhart Tolle was

(33:02):
published, 2000 920 ten,
I read it and it was like a very intellectual
understanding. I never
knew it from within.

Yeah.

And that's like, now in hindsight, 20,
like, I know the spiritual journey. You start to believe
in something, you come to know it within, and then you spend
lifetimes trying to embody that thing. And
so I had this like, kind of intellectual knowledge
base understanding. August
2017. I was for a year
at that point, I had been doing meditation

(33:35):
since again, my mid twenties at that point, I was feeling
called to, like, be in meditation all the time.
I'm in New York City, my little New York City shoebox apartment. Like,
we all have that live there, right?

Yeah.

And I'm meditating like a good hour or more a day. I'm just
like constantly. It's all I want to be.
And I don't know the exact date and I
wish I did, but it was middle of August and,
I started feeling a surge of
energy and I mean, vibrating.
Electromagnetic to where my body's
moving through my body and like up and

(34:08):
out and spiraling all around me.

Wow.

And it's like I could touch it. That's how, real
when I say it felt. This was not tingling. Yeah, yeah, this
is like pulsing. And,
And it was like the most highest love I ever felt. And
I. What the experience was, it's like I left my body
at one moment and I saw angels all
around me and received

(34:31):
some messages like, you're,
you know, you're now, it was like you're now in your awakening
journey. And, we're with you, we're all
around you, we're like, here's the supporting you. And
anyway, from that moment on, I've
never felt the world the same. I feel the physical
vibration of energy and everything and all the time. And

(34:52):
so I became very energy sensitive.
Now, again, this could be like a two
hour podcast. So I'm going to try to. It took me a
year to understand what was
actually happening, which I'll say in a second. So
I thought, and it was always this high
love. So I thought for a time, oh, I'm waking up to being an energy
healer. Like that was, which is in part true.

(35:14):
I thought, oh, I'm just, I'm having like,
I, you know, I'm having some kind of metaphysical, but I didn't know
what. And then I had points where I thought, oh my God, I'm not having a
spiritual awakening. I'm having a brain tumor went down that rabbit
hole.

I'm going crazy.

Yeah, I'm going crazy all the time. And
about, seven months in,
and I've always told her when I'm going to talk about this,
I'm going to share the story. And she's incredible and she's fine with
it. I saw someone repost
a post. On Instagram that said
an ascension wave just hit us.

(35:49):
And ten minutes before that and what would happen is like once a
week I'd start feeling this pulsing like it was
coming in our atmosphere.
And then I would feel the energy all around me and it would happen like
once a week. What? But I would still, like, be able to feel the
energy of everything. But this would be like something massive coming
in.

Yeah, yeah.

And I just saw and I go, oh my God. Oh my. This is it.
This is it. And so rabbit hole found this woman. She's
only on Facebook. Her name's Amanda Lawrence. And
what I started noticing is every
time I would start to feel one of these big
waves come in is what I'll call em. She would
post and I'm like, I'm feeling ascension waves.
And then I went down a whole thing. I'm like,

(36:29):
so this is for people that have read a new earth by Eckhart Tolle. I'm
like, well, how is the earth ascending? How are we
ascending if there's not some energetic shift happening? It's not just
magic.

Right, right.

It's not like we just become higher consciousness. There
has to be a change. Like we have to somehow be able
to hold more light at a cellular level. Like something
has. This is what's happening. This is evolution
in motion.

So can you. So let's like, bring it down to super,
super 101, because you and I get this, for someone
who's like, what in the fuck is ascension? What is she talking
about? It's like, obviously there's ascending, so think about it that way. Much
more simple. What is the concept of ascension?

Ascension, it's almost like descension. So it's the
idea of embodying more of your soul
light in physical form. So we've
always been in a lower, only able to embody a
fraction of our true soul light. And it's why
we are fearful. It's why we perceive limit.
It's why we suffer.

Right. Right.

And ascension is the
process of
moving, embodying more light. It's an
alchemical process in physical
form over time.

One of my favorite. Thank you for that.
By the way, one of my favorite chapters in Eckhart Tolle
is a new earth. And by the way, if anyone who hasn't read
it, go get it. But also, you may look at it and be
like, I am not ready for this book. Like this. This
book is like, you have a moment in your life where you are
ready for this book. And before that, it's like a before and an after.
And I've wanted to share it with a lot of people who I know are not ready for that

(38:01):
book, and they're going to look at me like I'm a crazy person. But the moment I
was ready for that book, I think it's chapter two or three, and it's all about the
ego, and it's exactly what you're talking about, this ascension.
So to kind of break it down even further, and I love your perspective on this,
too. It's like we're little humans. We've got these little human
minds. And, like, I'm not trying to offend myself or anyone out there.
We only know what we know, and we know our frame of reference is what we've

(38:22):
experienced, so we can visualize what we've experienced on this, like,
on our little earth and our little brains, right? But it's like there's
something so much bigger than that when you let
go of the ego, and the ego wants to keep you in what you're
familiar with, right? Like, it wants to keep you and anything
that's like you going to Vietnam, me leaving my job, being
like, I don't know what the heck is next, what's going on? It's so fear

(38:42):
based. It's like we're just connected
to our ego and our fear. But when we can let go of
that and, like, not hold on to it as
tightly and actually start to explore, like, our energy
out there and, like, our real purpose is where the beauty
happens, just like trying to explain it in a,
kind of a simplest form way for people.

The two things are true in that. So we've
in, again, no matter what you believe,
you know, Christianity, they all say the same thing
just using different words.

Right.

You know, in Christianity, they call the ego satan. We have
been here to have an experience
with this thing called the ego. The
ego is that voice of fear in your mind that presents of the
voice of reason. You're here to have an experience with that
because through a deep experience of what
truly isn't, you learn to come
what is. But what's also true is we've also been here to have an

(39:36):
experience with transcending the ego.

Yes.

And that time is accelerating right now. The transcending of
the ego. That's what ascension is.

Okay, so talk about that right now, because anyone who's
listening, unless you're living under a rock,
everyone I know, and I kind of alluded to this earlier, is going
through some sort of change. Like, everyone,
everyone, whether it's like a health change, a work change,
a life change, a relationship change, whatever it might
be, like a phase change, anything. And

(40:04):
it's. They're huge shifts. Like I said, it's. It's this
in between time. Why is
that?

Because everything that was manifested via your
ego. So everything from a place of limitation,
fear, things that don't serve you. M first need
to be dismantled to be able to embody the
soul within. So ascension, it's
very chaotic, it's destructive. It's why
the world looks the way it is. It's called, like, dark
night of the soul. You're simply bringing

(40:33):
up. And universe is helping you. Everything that
doesn't serve you is being brought up so you
can see it and release it. And it's very uncomfortable. So
things just start. You don't resonate with them anymore. It starts to
feel heavy. I used to like this job. I don't.
I used to love this relationship, this person. I don't. It's
just like, it's outdated. It feels

(40:54):
heavy. And you're just going through a process of
releasing that stuff. It's energetically heavy,
dense energy, you know, human stuff that just doesn't
serve a new you that is, you know, dying to come
through is the way to think about it. But it's a destructive process,
and it's collective and it's individual.
So there are paradigms, things we've created, you
know, that are connected to this, you know, capitalism

(41:16):
maybe, you know, like, different things. And we're seeing the
holes in that, different societal things. We're seeing
like, wow, how people have been underserved. It's just bringing all the
dark to the light, because until it's brought up, you
can't even heal it or release it.

What do you say to people who this just absolutely scares
the living shit out of? They're like, no, no, I know. I might not.
I might not be feeling connected to my job anymore. But, like, no, this is
my job. I've been here for ten years. Like, I'm in this relationship.
No, this is the, Like, you know, how hard it is to find somebody out there? Maybe
it's not perfect.

Sure.

Okay. But like, this, this is my relationship. And they're
holding on, you know, you hear the phrase hold so
tight. They're holding so tight, even though they may
spiritually, they might not even understand this,
not be connecting with that anymore, but they're so
terrified to let it go. What do you say to those
people?

Well, depends. Everyone's on their
own unique journey, and everyone's journey is perfect
for them.

Totally perfect for them.

And so maybe they need to sit in
that uncomfortable job that they don't like
another few years. I don't know. You know, you need to
honor your own resonance. And no matter
as long as you're doing what feels right for
you, even if we might look at it and go, oh, what?
Fear's a liar. That's not, you know, they have to come to that

(42:34):
realization for themselves. And the
good thing is the universe. Like Michael Beckwith says, one of our favorite
tutors, the universe is progressive. So they're going
to get there and to wherever they need to be and wherever there,
there is in their own time and way. for
me, like, pain,
is the portal to awakening. It's like there's so many

(42:54):
messages in fear. Fear, to me, is always reflecting. It's like the
greatest teacher. It's always reflecting to me
the parts of me that are unhealed. So you'll
say, like, well, what is really, what's beneath this fear? Like,
can you look beneath it and see what that's really about? And
perhaps consider surrendering that,
having a conception of a higher power, something you put faith in? But the

(43:15):
answer might be no. You know, as well.

Yeah, the.
What about the concept of triggers for people? This
just occurred to me right now because there's fear, but there's
also these triggers, right? Where it's like people are stuck
constantly. And if they're questioned or if they
start to question or there's behavior that other people exhibit or
that they exhibit, and they just freak out, whatever
their trigger might be. How can you suggest people start

(43:39):
to. To work through triggers or heal them?

Well, yeah, I mean, it's such a, it's such another
great, like, teaching advice. You can only be triggered by if
something is unhealed within you. Otherwise it won't trigger you.
Yes. So, you know, it's like,
you can have two perspectives. You can be in the trigger, but
step outside of yourself and witness yourself, like, from a place
of curiosity and genuine, like,

(44:02):
observational curiosity, and go, huh?
Huh? What might this be really about?
Like, what's the information here that I can
take away? And then depending on what that thing is, like, there's
a million things you could do. Like, is there old pain
I haven't processed? Is there trauma I haven't
processed is. You know, all causes of
suffering are because I'm believing the fear in my mind more than the

(44:24):
truth in my heart. So what am I
believing that is, you know, based on what the fear
in my mind is saying, that actually isn't true.
That means I'm choosing to suffer because I'm believing that more than
this, it depends what it is. Is there trauma I never
processed. It could be a million things. But the information is
there. The clue is there, because if it's triggering you, you have
information about your map to healing.

Yeah, and it's. And it's the ego that tells
us, like, oh, no, you should argue, oh, no, you
know, how dare you cannot apologize. No, you need
to apologize or, there's nothing wrong with me. It's like.
Like, pick that up and set that
aside. That's your ego yelling
at you because it doesn't want you to grow, because it's
terrified. Like, open up the

(45:07):
vulnerability and, like, really examine
what this is. There's nothing wrong with it. It only leads to
growth. It's like, I love. I love what you said.
I want to talk about your book, too. So you wrote, a book. Dare
to believe. Twelve lessons for living. Your sole purpose.
Where was that in the timeline? Like, how did
you divine that? Or, like, what led to that concept?

Yeah. So that was. Now I'm, two and a half years out beyond
Rakuten. in. I'll call
it vision 1.0 of what my sole
purpose is today. But, like, the first thing I thought
it was that I was actively pursuing.
And. No, I'm getting my timing
right. No, I just started stepping into the work I'm doing today.

(45:47):
Okay. So we're getting my own timing, but the reason I wrote it,
and I think, And that's important, it's something
I want your audience to know, is part of what I didn't talk
about is I had been trying to figure out, like, back when I
was an agency and marketing world, this thing, this
purpose thing, I'll call it, for a long time. And I had
gone via the traditional pathways. So

(46:07):
career assessment, you know, like, which is all anchored
to scarcity and survival, because it's all about what you're good
at, right? For the most part,
none of that revealed it, you know, and look,
I love this guy, love the Simon Sinek, but the circles too,
like, you know, concentric circle kind of didn't get it
from either m because I kept getting too, in my head, I kept,

(46:28):
again thinking, purpose is something to figure out rather
than letting my soul, like, reveal itself to
itself. So when I
started, like, uncovering what my purpose is, I now know
I'm leaving Rakuten. I'm gonna, you know, step out, and
this is it. I'm, Jessica's gonna figure out what she wants to be when she grows
up and, like, step into sole purpose. Had the
vocabulary. I went back to a lot of

(46:50):
the ancient wisdom teachings, and there's so much
beautiful information there, and a lot of, you know, Tolle's
work, a lot of what Beckwith does, and
it's great. You know, it's like visioning and, you know, everything that your heart
wants is what your destiny is and all these kinds of
things. But I'm still like, you know,
like, I have a master of science. Like, I'm still analytical

(47:10):
thinker. So I was like, what do I do?
Started creating my own, you know,
courses or ways to do it for myself, where I was just
applying, like, a practical lens on these
teachings. And that is
ultimately where it led
me to, you know, having the courage to having a
vision, to stepping out into

(47:31):
purpose. And when I felt like I
had uncovered something, literally, I was like,
I have to put this in a book. And so it started as just a course
book, and it is very much a course book.
It's step by step what to
do based on what I did. And there's literally, like,
handhold through the process. Twelve lessons.

(47:53):
but then that was kind of boring. So I ended up making an
autobiographical and then infusing my
story into it. So I wrote the book really quickly, like two,
three months, and put it out because I felt
like I had to get it out. People needed, you know,
that we're in this journey, that it could really help people.

Yeah. When you. So you said something really important. The.
You put practical applications on top of spiritual
teachings, because it's like, the spiritual people might be, like,
interested in spiritual teachings, but they're so esoteric. And, like,
how do I go from working in
analytics or something? That's so just like you said, I have a
master's of science to same thing. Like, we're right both northwestern. So it's

(48:29):
like, okay, how do we take ourselves out of that
brain to prove things in real
life to these, like, how do I apply these esoteric
teachings that I really want to connect with? But, like, I don't know what to do.
So, can you give a few tips that you gave in the book? You have to
give all twelve steps. But, like, what are some ways that people can
practically start to do this?

Yeah. I mean, one of the most important
ones. Gosh, I hope you remember. I think it's number three. And
it's really like honor just asking your heart what
it wants. And that, that's the big
one. And most of us are so
used to, to repressing,
censoring what we really want before we even let ourselves, like,
voice it. Because it's already that ego not possible

(49:10):
energy there.

Yeah.

So I have in the book, it's just like a heart listening exercise.
And you do it over whatever. We just keep asking, what do I really
want? What? And you, like, a curious detective, you write
down every little thing, you know? And then it's like, there's a little
ranking exercise there. Like, and the, the thing
is, what most excites you? What is the thing
that people would have to pinch you if you said, like,

(49:32):
oh, my God, you're gonna get paid to do this? That's the
thing. That's the purpose. That's your purpose?

Yes.

You know?

Yes.

And I, even go in there like, this is my analytical brain. I'm like, and
it's not to travel forever. If it's travel and, or
sit on a couch forever, that's just a reaction to your
current state. It's for the next five years. Like, what would
be so exciting to you? Couldn't believe you're
getting paid to do this. You love it so much. Like,
that's the thing. So it's that. And then, in a

(49:59):
very, and then a very, like, analytical, step by step approach
to limiting belief work. Because the moment
you step into the moment, you even let yourself
acknowledge what you really want. Like, and
I define purpose as taking
who you truly are. The highest expression of you. And
what you love to express, to serve
in the world in some way. So authentically who you

(50:22):
are and what you love to express into the world. To serve the
world.

Yeah.

As soon as you even let that soul
voice, like, acknowledge it, this gets louder
than ever. Because the ego only
wants to battle, is only in battle with the soul.
Okay, so that voice. Oh, my God, that's
silly. That's why people don't even allow themselves to
acknowledge it. So right after that, the next step is
limiting belief works and all. Taking all those stories,

(50:49):
everything that your ego is saying about
why this isn't possible and going through a methodical, step by step,
to reprogram yours, those beliefs.

Yes. I love that the ego gets in the way and tells you all the reasons you
can't do something because it's afraid.

Ego's quiet about things that don't keep you
small.

Right.

You know?

Yes. Oh, and it becomes. It gets real loud. Real
loud.

Only when it's the soul voice, when it's the things
that. When it's your destiny, when it's, like, truly your sole
purpose, you also know it because the ego will be the loudest
about that one.

Yes. It'll start screaming at you. But it's like, that's where people
really have to pay attention and get out of their own
ways in terms of, well, what do what. What if
someone thinks this is a bad idea? What if someone thinks
I'm crazy? What? It's like, get rid of all the preconceived
judgment of what other people think. Everyone else is so,
like, people are so afraid of what everyone else and so concerned

(51:40):
of what everyone else thinks of them. It's like, stop. The minute you
start to think and, like, feel these things come up,
you're onto something incredible. So, like, follow that
path. I do love what you said about kind of, like, that
heart centered reflection, because people, might be like, well, what does that
even mean? And at least for me, it's really getting still.
Like, it doesn't have to be meditation, per se, or getting in

(52:01):
a zone, but, like, find your. Your happy, quiet
place for a prolonged period of time. And, like you said,
kind of ask the question. I ask the question sometimes. Like,
what do I need to know?

Yeah. Like, what?

What? Like, I don't need to. Like, who am I meant to be?
What's my purpose? Those huge things?
Because that's overwhelming for people. It's like, start really small.
Like, what do I need to know right now?

You know?

And just, like. Like you said, see what kind of feelings or answers come
through. And don't question it. Just write it down in your journal.
Just write it down and, like, build on it over time. But I
think what you said is so important, like, spending that time
with your heart to see what comes up.

And it's, what do you really want? Like,
that's the, it's not what do I should do, what
makes sense, what, you know, it's, it's what do you
really want?

Yeah. Yeah.

And, like, what you want is purpose.

Yes.
So speaking purpose,
you also founded the women's purpose
community. I, want to hear the
story of how this came to be because this is as far
away from,
advertising and data
and, ego as possible. And, like, what

(53:10):
inspired this in your journey? It's such a
beautiful concept. I love it.

Yeah, well, and I'm going to be real woo
for your listeners and viewers at the
moment. but I hope they'll hear something. So my
first vision was not what I'm doing. Like, the first articulation
of what I thought my heart wanted was not what I was doing
today. It was in terms of a feeling in the way I'd help
people, but the avenue, the how looked very
different.

Yeah.

And so I was thinking, you know, my
purpose was to wake up companies to purpose,
you know, and help people,
employees, like, find their purpose and, you know, all this kind of
stuff. And I was on that path and was feeling very
heavy. But the thing is, once I had,
like, from a place of intention, like
was, this is the woo co creating with

(53:57):
the universe. Like, the universe was going to get me there
even if I didn't have it right, because I was in the journey.
So it's like, just take a step in the journey with, like,
pure, heartfelt intention and you'll get
there. And I'm proof of that because I'm in this, you know, I had a whole
other company name, you know, all this thing,
and, a woman. I was speaking at a conference,

(54:17):
advertising conference, but about no purpose and me leaving
advertising and what I'm doing, all this kind of stuff, and this woman
goes, do you coach people and
help them uncover their purpose? And I was like,
no, but I should.
It was just like, yes, that's the thing. And I
literally was like, started coaching this woman,

(54:38):
and everything started to then kind of blow up,
if you will, from there. And I finally felt in that, oh,
this is the thing. And it was, you know, very
spiritual kind of coaching, but for female leaders,
which then I had, I literally, like,
had a vision I did of, doing a
retreat for very, you know, high powered women, but

(54:58):
something very unique and different that it would
be deep vulnerability. It would be only on, like,
personal growth, you know, it wouldn't be like, leadership
development, and it would really, it would be, you
know, not coming in from egos, so not coming into
the event going, I work here at this job. I'm on this
board. But things like introducing yourself

(55:18):
by the adjectives that describe you, or from
introducing yourself via, starting to talk with the hardest thing you've ever
experienced in life, those kinds of things. So I launched
the first woman's purpose retreat in
2018, and it was really
successful. And this,
like, the way it was received was beyond my
wildest expectations. And so at this point, I'm

(55:41):
moving with coaching and doing retreats.
Then COVID hit. Yeah, no in person
retreats. I brought everything online.
I almost went out of business because that was a lot of my
revenue. Like, you know, I had a
fair amount of even corporate coaching clients, even though I was
working just with the individual. And so it was a real

(56:01):
reckoning moment for me. But the greatest blessing, because when I
brought everything online and some women had been
with me for a while via the retreats, otherwise,
they were like, why? I would love to connect with all these women
more than once a year. And it just sparked the idea for the women's
purpose community, which is a personal and spiritual
growth community for women in

(56:21):
elevated leadership roles.

Amazing, amazing.
What is it about the community dynamics? Because you've mentioned,
obviously, there's one on one coaching, but the community
dynamics and how that contributes to
how these members experience transformation, because they're already higher
powered executives. Like, they're making it in their careers, but
questioning purpose and longings for something
deeper. Like, what is it about that community aspect?

Yeah, it's the topics that we focus
on. So every month we focus on a topic, and it is all
in the realm of, look,
I don't label this, but maybe I should. It's
on self awareness, consciousness shifting. So it's all in, like,
soul discovery, self discovery type of topic.
So we kicked off the year on the topic of

(57:05):
surrender and what it means to live in a
surrender state of being. So it is that these are
women, like, and they know what they're coming. They know they're not taking a
leadership training course course, you know, they know they're not
doing another imposter syndrome course, even though that work is very
important. But they're really, like, coming to a
place where they're going to focus on their

(57:25):
own soul discovery, their own self awareness, their own self
actualization journey. so
they have some need to do that. What drives them there is usually
they're really unhappy in their career, you know, unhappy in
some part of their life. They're in that in between space. A lot of them, as
well as you're talking about, but also the
way that we connect. So

(57:46):
we practice embodied vulnerability. We don't, again,
connect through identifying, through the labels and titles.
Every woman's put in a group with six other women.
that's called their core group. They're with those women
for one whole year doing this,
building relationships from a place of true
self versus what I've done and

(58:06):
achieved. And that is really
all the difference. And I think why it's been
successful and, you know, it's only, it's only
grown a word of mouth. business. Yeah. As
well.

Yeah. This just occurred to me, being
similar in terms of, like, having high powered career and kind of
shifting out of it to something much more purpose driven.
I'd love to get your thoughts on, like, the masculine versus
feminine right now, because I would imagine a lot of the women
in your group that you work with, with women's purpose, community,
community have had to

(58:39):
really deep, deep, deeply connect to their
masculine side, and that includes myself. Right. Like,
you're fighting to get right. I know. Like, raise your hand if you're guilty of
that.

But, like, in order to survive in.

A capitalistic society, male
dominated. I mean, and I worked in advertising slash
automotive slash finance slash tech. Like, are you kidding?
Like, let's get crazy in terms of the bro bros
and the masculinity, but it's like we
adopt these behaviors in terms of how
men and the masculine define
success. Right. And, like, we feel like we have to conform to that. But

(59:12):
then I do feel like just my perspective,
when you actually start to let that go, and I feel like this
journey is part of letting that go, and you actually start to
really rediscover your femininity. And
I don't mean, like, wear dresses and be pretty and. But,
like, feminine power, it's so much
more expansive than masculine power.
Like, I'm just curious your thoughts on that.

Yeah, well, I identify with what you said, and I
noticed it, the shift when I moved in New York. I was like, oh, I've got to
take on, like, a new Persona to be successful. And I
didn't. Ended up really not liking that person. And,
it's also a genesis of why
the community was formed or why they retreats
originally. Because what I noticed, I was like, what's

(59:55):
happened? And it happens in healthcare, it happens in everything. It's like, we've taken
what's worked for men and we're now applying it to women. And
it happened at events, you know, in networking.
They were very transactional. They were not the way
women need to build relationships, to have
those peer to peer supportive relationships for growth.
You know, there was no version of what,
you know, the golf course had done for men. And we just kept, oh,

(01:00:17):
just more training, you know, applying all these things. I was like, no.
Women need to be able to connect emotionally.
Women need to feel a sense of purpose and they
need to, you know, they're always still primary caretakers
need a place that's just about them. So I did try to flip
on the head and even the design of the product, if you
will. But what I, you know, we talk a lot about like

(01:00:38):
harnessing intuition and not being apologetic for
it, even myself this year, and how I'm
talking about the community on LinkedIn, I realized I was
still using language to kind of, kind of try to get it to fit a
mold because I want these women to be able to prove it, get it, approved
budget wise. Right, like within the company. And I was like,
no, like, we should celebrate personal growth and how
important it is and not shy away

(01:01:00):
from that. So I feel like it's. This
change is slow, to answer your question,
the divine feminine, and there's a, there's
divine feminine and divine masculine energy and there's
also, you know, unhealed aspects of both of, of
those. But m when you're in your power, in the divine feminine energy,
it is like, yeah, I give equal weight to my

(01:01:20):
intuition. I trust my gut feeling.
it's that I don't have to go and make everything
happen that I also like sit back
and allow myself to receive and I let it come to
me. And so I think we're starting
to like harness those. But it's still, it's still
challenging when you're really like in the paradigm.

>> Christie Bishop, Host (01:01:40):
Yeah, oh, yeah, absolutely. Even if you feel the paradigm shifting
a bit.
Can you, can you talk about, you mentioned this earlier, but the
idea of vulnerability and how
critical that is because it's something that's so
difficult in, you know, a very male
dominated society. It's not something that a lot of people
used to embrace, but certainly I think it's

(01:02:01):
growing and its power, at least in my opinion,
is like unparalleled. But can you talk about the importance of vulnerability in
terms of getting or starting that
transformation in yourself?

>> Jessica Joines (01:02:13):
I mean, there's what vulnerability does
for the group. And those that
are witnessing it and then just what it does for
yourself. I identify vulnerability
is just sharing that thing that you feel
uncomfortable to share. And I talk a
lot about this in the community. Especially women that have been in the community for a few
years. I'm, like, keep pushing that bounds. Like, what makes

(01:02:35):
you uncomfortable now? There's always another
layer. And back
to the earlier conversation, like, vulnerability
is the allowance of the breath of the soul to come
forward. talking about what you
think people want to hear, what's going to look good,
or all these things, that's ego. So that's a

(01:02:56):
relationship that only can go so
far. So to have that, like, deep connection,
it's like, hey, I'm taking off my mask. I'm taking
off all these layers of things that I think have made me
important or likable or who I am, and I'm
actually sharing some part of myself that is
really uncomfortable for me to share. And
if you do the same, that helps us form like a bond to some

(01:03:18):
time. And for myself, it just helps me
every time I'm vulnerable. You know, even like, doing this podcast with
you and talking about my alcoholism, it's. That's never an easy
conversation for me to make public is
helps me heal a little something within me and
feel a little more accepting of myself and who
I truly am at the core and not who I think I should be or need to

(01:03:39):
be.

And honestly, that's the whole point of this podcast,
just the whole the series. What nobody tells us is
to take off that mask and be vulnerable. Because when you talk about
your alcoholism, and it may trigger you in a lot of
ways if whatever feelings may come to the service for you.
But for others, it may be, you know, their miscarriage, it may be,
you know, going through Alzheimer's with their parent, whatever

(01:04:00):
it might be, or being overweight and losing 100 pounds, or being in
prison. There's a thousand of these things, but it helps so
many people to know that they're not alone and gives them
the tools.
I do have, like, one or two more questions, just conscious of our
time thinking about the women who have come
into the women purpose community, or who have attended your retreats,
who maybe came in, I don't want to say skeptical, but

(01:04:21):
they're like, okay, I know that I need this, but I'm not entirely sure how
to do this right. Can you talk about any, like,
transformation or, like, success stories? Of course. Leave them
anonymous that you've seen and, like, how. How
amazing they've been.

Yeah, well, I can't. This one woman, I'm not, I won't name her, but she'll
know exactly who she is. I mean, she came into the
first retreat in 2018,
and she tells me now.
She called her husband during it and was like, I don't know, it's some
hippy dippy shit. Like, it was like I never
meditated, had. And now, like, she

(01:04:54):
is like the most woo, like, new,
but not even that. She subscribed to those
things, like she always says. And we had. And
then we did some coaching and she's been a part, she's been every single
retreat and been a part of the community since it
started. And also has done some one on one coaching.
And, she at the time was really identity from

(01:05:14):
being hardworking and achieving and has like,
surrendered all of that and is like, she built a
meditation garden her back. Like, she's just living in this
Zen place of comfort and love and
acceptance and peace with who she is. And she's
not like trying to, you know, we had a retreat
called, the theme was my worth isn't what I

(01:05:35):
produced. And she's so,
like, not finding her value and worth by like, all
that stuff anymore, but, like, has really, like, found who
she is on the inside and like all
that. And it's like she's just living in this
peaceful state and still all that stuff is there. It's like she
didn't lose any like, level of
perceived status or anything. It's just like, there are other things

(01:05:57):
that matter to her now. And it's been one of the most
beautiful transformations to watch. And it's all on her
because, you know, she put in the work and was open and
available to it.

That's right. Being open and available to it. So
important.
Any final thoughts for people who have learned?
a lot. We've covered so much ground. So I'd like, thank you for
your generosity and expertise in sharing all of this, but
just any closing thoughts for people who are
tuning in going, this intrigues me. I'd like to
maybe start, well, let's.

Go back to the people that are in the in between right now
and in maybe the discomfort.
There is so much to be as
uncomfortable it is. That's like where all the
awakening happens, where you learn when you're in between
worlds or in that liminal space or you don't. The
confusion is when so much can be
revealed. And it's

(01:06:51):
kind of like everything we were taught as kids but never did
is like, I keep. I'm like, it's actually true.
M Your heart has the answers, whatever that means to
you. Any dream you have for your life,
anything you truly want, it's only there because it's
what you're supposed to do. Like, there's no other
reason for it. That's why

(01:07:11):
it's there, because it's what you're
supposed to do. Like, there's no dream in your
heart that is not possible.
Otherwise it wouldn't be there.

Yeah.

You know, so whatever. Whatever that's guiding you, whether it's
a career or whatever it is, like, that's the
thing. If you can just get this out of the way for even, like, a moment
and take a baby step towards it, like, that's where the
happiness, the peace, the freedom comes.

I love that. Thank you. That's so beautiful.
If people wanted to learn more about the women's purpose community or get in
touch with you, where is the best place?

Yeah, I have two websites. the first one's easy because it's
my name, and my last name is spelled very uniquely. It's
Jessica joins, but joins with an e. So
that website can get you to my book, the woman's purpose community
as well. But women's purpose community has its own website, and it's just
women'spurposecommunity. Dot, dot.

Amazing. Jessica, thank you so much. This is such a beautiful
conversation.

Thank you. It has been such a pleasure to be with you
today. I've really enjoyed it, and I just love being with you
and in your energy. Well, thanks.

You too. Thank you so much.

Well, that's it.

Another episode of what nobody tells us.
Thank you so much for listening, and I hope you felt something.
I hope you learned something, something. And I hope you feel
empowered to go reach out to somebody who might be going
through something you don't understand. Lean
in, ask the questions. Make the
connection. Be the friend who starts the
conversation. I can't tell you how much it will mean to

(01:08:42):
someone. If you have ideas for further
topics, please reach out to me. I love
hearing from you. Your emails and your tweets and your
texts and your, Instagram DM's, are
so welcome and so amazing. If you want to hear
more, every episode is available on my
website, christybishop.com. That's
christiebishop.com.

(01:09:06):
You can find all previous episodes, and you can also
book me for speaking engagements, for training,
coaching, and marketing consulting. I've only been
doing that for the last 20 plus years. It's one of my first
loves. So, again, thank you for listening. And until next
time, I'm Christie bishop, and this is what
nobody tells us.

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