Ep. 337 - Class "A" Vs. Class "B" Sightings!

Cliff Barackman, James "Bobo" Fay, and Matt Pruitt discuss a recent sighting in Oregon! Cliff and Bobo discuss the BFRO's Report Classification System while getting clarification from Matt Moneymaker. Cliff describes a few of the amazing things he's found in Dr. Meldrum's archives, including a historically significant letter written by early sasquatch researcher Bob Titmus. Check out the Willow Creek documentary mentioned in the episode. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Big Food and on.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
With Cliff and Bubo.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
These guys are your favorites, so like say subscribe and
raid it.

Speaker 3 (00:13):
I'm stuck and me.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Greatest on Bush today and listening, oh watching Limb always
keep its watching. And now you're hosts Cliff Barrickman and
James Bubo Fay.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Greetings, Bobo.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
How you doing? Man?

Speaker 3 (00:33):
Go it's up, Cliff, Oh, lots of stuff, lots of stuff.
Matt Prode, how you doing. I'm hanging in there a
little under the weather, but hanging in there. Traveling like
you were this past week will always get you sick.
I got sick after last week's travel kind of sucked.
I still quite haven't shaken it because I've been out
in the woods like two or three days this week
because stuff is happening and the weather's uncooperative, and so

(00:55):
I've been very, very wet, and even though I feel better,
I just can't quite shake the end of my sickness
because I keep going out in the rain to do things.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
I ran out a high fever yesterday, but yeah, I'm
sure it's something I picked up with the one of
the various airports that I rolled through on the way
back home. So just trying to fight through it and
get back to a normality.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Whenever I start feeling sick, I would take two whole
heads of garlic, like you know, big heads of garlic,
and cut all the clothes up, mince them all up
and cook some pasta with some butter, and then just
dump in like two hoole clothes at garlic and just
it'd be like do you do a knock out? Everything?
Like whatever I had would be gone, like within twelve hours.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
I definitely prescribed to the raw garlic diet when I
am sick at one hundred.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
Percent, you gotta do a ton of it. Though.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
Oh yeah, I usually do like three to five clothes raw.
I don't cook it. I do it just straight and
I just like braw dog it.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, I put it on raw, I spoil the news,
put butter on them. Then I throw the garlic on. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
Garlic's one of the best things for you when you're sick,
when you if you can eat the clove isn't exactly
the easiest thing, especially if you're new at it.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Well, you get it's bad. It's bad because that's what
I found out because I was eating them hole and
then I found out how bad that was. It eats
holes in your stomach. You gotta you gotta slice it
up good, mince it up.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
Oh yeah, I think as long as what works for
me is if I eat crackers or something with it,
crackers or bread or something. I particularly like saltines with
it for some reason.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, you gotta slice it. You gotta make it really small.
I think it absorbs way way better. And it doesn't
like deposit and set on one spot and then you know,
cause an ulcer.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
Well, isn't that what chewing does.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Cliff, as you called chewing, I have referred a mastication masticating.
It does not thoroughly pulpizers as much.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
Ignorant Hick, I love it well anyways. So yeah, we're
all getting over some stuff. Bobo seems the only one
with an iron constitution who's not sick at all right now.
And I hope you get better soon, Matt. Tis the
season when things start changing, you know. But I guess, uh,
we had a Class B sighting this past week. I'm
covering hours now in the museum. I guess I should back. Yeah,

(03:06):
yeah you can do that. Yeah you can have a
Class B siding. Indeed, no, no, you can have a
class B siding.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Oh or you're not positive?

Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yeah, yeah, well, you know, let's talk about that, because
I heard class A and class B thrown around pretty
willy nilly a lot of times people who don't seem
to understand what those designations mean, you know, and in
bigfoot land those are kind of important. They become part
of the like the language, you know that the it's
what we all use to throw around. And of course

(03:38):
Matt Moneymaker for the BFROO, he made these terms up
to kind of classify as his the sightings and reports
that were coming in and generally speaking, uh, it has
class A and class B that the real difference there,
to put it very simply is how how much of
a possibility of misinterpretation is there. I'm going to read

(03:59):
directly from the BFURO website right now. Class A Class
A reports involve clear sightings and circumstances where misinterpretation or
misidentification of other animals can be ruled out with greater confidence.
For example, there are several footprint cases that are well documented.
These are considered way footprint cases that are very well documented.

(04:20):
These are considered class A reports because misidentification of common
animals can be confidently ruled out. Thus, the potential for
misinterpretation is very low. Class B incidents where a possible
sasquatch was observed at a great distance or in poor
lighting conditions, or incidents in any other circumstance that did
not afford a clear view of the subject are considered

(04:42):
Class B. So basically, the difference between classifications relates directly
to the potential for misinterpretation.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
I did not know that.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
Oh yeah, yeah, A lot of people don't know that,
and you're obviously clearly a veteran bigfoot researcher.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
I think I'm almost positive those are updated. Those are updated.
He updated the criteria definitions.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
He might have, because my understanding until I just read
that a minute ago, is that all footprints are Class B.
But you know, like I guess the grays Harbor one,
you know, I guess that could be because that was
so well documented by Dennis Herford and those guys. Maybe
that would be a Class A. But still it could
be a hoaxer, you know, I mean, I mean, I
don't think it is, but it, you know, potentially could be.
So maybe maybe the footprints do all belong in a

(05:28):
Class B. I don't know what do you guys think.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
Dude, I'm telling that he updated those the terminology definitions.
I like this doing better. I like this doing better
because I've had audio where there's no way it could
like like I said that my first setting fin days
before I had that encounter, Like I never saw anything,
but it was like way more freaked me out, was
way more compelling and like like the most like in

(05:51):
your face, like there's no other thing, like it can't
be like you're chick in the eye. Or I think
it was just too intense. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
Matt goes on here and it says credible reports where
nothing was seen but distinct and characteristic sounds of sasquatches
were heard are always considered Class B reports and never
Class A, even in the most compelling sound only cases.
This is because the lack of visual element raises a
much greater potential for a misidentification of the sounds. But this,

(06:25):
I love this next paragraph here that he writes class
B reports are not considered less credible or less important
than Class A reports. Both types are deemed credible enough
by the bfro O to show in public. So that's
really important here. But yeah, so I received a class
b observation of a sasquatch on Saturday, because, like I mentioned,

(06:46):
I'm covering hours on Saturday pretty much every Saturday. Anybody
wants to come in and say hi, I will be
at the NABC And this will be throughout pretty much
the entire winter until things start picking up again. We
kind of shift the winter hours as many many tourism
based into industries do, you know, or establishments do. But anyway,
this guy comes in and I kind of know the guy.

(07:08):
I mean I didn't. I didn't not well enough to
recognize him. But when he told me so, oh, I
emailed you about those prints, and blah blah blah. Oh yeah, yeah.
He's actually emailed me several times before with really nice
looking footprints that he is found in various places in
Mountain Hood National Forest. He's a hunter, he's a mushroom forager,
he's just an outdoors guy in general. I trust what

(07:29):
he says, because on at least two or maybe three
occasions so far, he has sent me some really good,
good looking footprints in the ground that I wasn't able
to get out to unfortunately, because one of them was
in one of my look one of the locations I
like to frequent up there kind of by Timothy Lake,
on the north side of Timothy Lake there, and then

(07:50):
the others. The other that that happened a couple of
years before he told me about it. And then last November,
I think it was the last November, he sent me
a footprint photograph for south of Timothy Lake that looks
really good. And of course that night it snowed pretty heavily,
so I couldn't get out there. They couldn't get to
the location. But anyway, I trust this guy because he's

(08:11):
proven himself to be a reliable observer. He's got a
good eye for footprints, clearly, because if I can see
them in a picture, they've got to be really good
in the ground because pictures never never really turn out
the way that you're looking at something in the ground, does,
you know, It's just entirely different. But anyway, he was
out on so I took the report on Saturday, but
he was out on Friday foraging for mushrooms, because mushrooms

(08:35):
are just popping everywhere right now. It's an amazing season
for mushrooms right now, and depending on what altitude you're
going to, I've been seeing them all over too, Chantrell's
and lobster, mushrooms and blats and the whole nine. They're
all kicking right now pretty hard. So he was out
the day before at a location that's not too far
from one of my spots. It's close enough. It's probably

(08:55):
about through two or three miles as the crowfly from
one of my really good spots that I'd like to
go to.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
Hold on, I'm Monny Thinker's calling in right now to
clarify what Hey, Matt, Yeah, we're recording. Can I put
you on the air real quick?

Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (09:13):
Okay, we did you change the definitions for the BFR
classification like A, B and C. It used to be
all settings had to be I mean could like the
whole tracks trash could be A, and settings could be B.
That whole deal a long time ago.

Speaker 4 (09:29):
We were fight tuning it. But the classifications have been
for a long time. That class A were visual signings
where it was a visual that was clear enough so
that it either had to be a bigfoot or somebody
in a bigfoot costume. And then there could be kind
of week signings like out of the corner of your

(09:50):
eye for a split second, you're not sure Those would
be class B siding. So Class A had to mean
something where they really they're either lying or they saw
a bigfoot or somebody a big foot costume. And then
Class C is like secondhand reports, so it's not directly
for so if you talk to a class C person,

(10:11):
you might actually get to the actual witness if you
were to pursue that. But we don't like posting like
secondhand stories because they're the two reliable we wanted in
the in the in the words of a of a witness.
Class B is also sounds and track finds, and I
think there's been occasions where I think there's only been

(10:34):
a couple of what we had called Class A track finds.
Whether it was the tracks were so clear and so
under you know, photographed, well I just couldn't be anything else, uh,
and that we called that, But that I can't even
remember the last time we had a track find as
a Class A because it's just it's usually not that

(10:58):
that convincing where you could show photos and say like
like really good tracks in deep snow or deep tracks
I shouldn't say not necessarily deep snow, but deep tracks
in snow, showing that it was heavy in a big
long stride and it would have been like basically impossible
to fake.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
It, Okay, because we didn't know that there was Class
A footprint fives I guess Hereford that would be one,
or like the PG films, there's footage of them and
there's casts, right right.

Speaker 4 (11:25):
So something that kind of there's some elements to that
corroborates the tracks so much that you had to put
it in the category of certitude of a visual siding.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Okay, Yeah, we were all wrong. We were all like,
we just saw someone on Class A track. We were like, no,
there's no cross, Like we thought you had redone the
definitions or something.

Speaker 4 (11:46):
Well, we tweaked it in a couple of cases, because
it's all the classification system is really just about reliability
in that like, so the further you get away from
a the more you're talking in the potential for misinterpretation.
So I've a lot of times put like if there's
a whole lot of sounds and rock throwing and stuff,

(12:07):
I would call it a B plus, you know. So
it's that sliding scale is all about reliability, and some
track finds are can be as just as reliable as
a visual and but again I can't you remember the
last time we did that. There's very few cases. I
think I've only done it for two cases where it
was where I called it. And it wouldn't even be

(12:29):
the Patterson because we don't have the written submission from
you know, from Bob Gimbling. Yeah, it's not even in
the database the Patterson incident.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
Uh So the most famous setting out of VFL, I mean,
the most the most famous setting ever doesn't qualify from
VFR because there's no first time account from Bob exactly.

Speaker 4 (12:49):
He hasn't somebody, he hasn't put anything writing and rimats
he could, but if.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
He wants to be taken seriously, he better.

Speaker 4 (12:59):
Yeah, there was there was no way to submit something
like that back when when it happened, and I wouldn't
expend it. But I think people are aware of that
if it isn't on our web.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeah, any questions from matater Cliff now, just thank him
for coming on. Okay, Yeah, thanks Matt. We appreciate that.
We were just having a debate about it and we
said let's see if that's are available and clear this up.

Speaker 4 (13:25):
Okay, all right, anytime you guys needed a street you.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
On, all right, we need plenty of straighten out, So
let me call on you soon.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
Okay, bye, Yes, there you go, straight from the man's mouth.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Classic. That was so awesome.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
It's a he's a pleasure to have him drop by. Yeah, well,
I would think that for our listeners at least. I mean,
I know for me personally, but I'm not really the
guy to take the temperature of the audience in any
sort of way. But I think for our listeners it's
got to be kind of fun to have people pop
on every once in a while that are unexpected, you know,
whether it's money Maker or maybe Melissa or somebody like that.

(14:06):
You know, just somebody who happens to be in the neighborhood.
We just grab some Yeah, stay tuned for more Bigfoot
and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. We'll be right back
after these messages. Boba, are you starting to notice thinning hair?

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Who me?

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where was I forgot?

Speaker 3 (16:10):
I wasn't listening?

Speaker 2 (16:11):
Oh should I cut you off? Or Matt caught you off?
What was my fault?

Speaker 1 (16:15):
You were still starting to get into like your work
on Saturdays. And there was a guy who came in
that you know fairly, Well, yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
That's right, that's right. So this guy comes in and
he sent me footprint photographs before that I think are legitimate.
And he's out in the woods a lot. So I
put weight in what this guy's saying for sure. And
so I was talking to him and he said that
just the day before, on Friday, October tenth, he was
out in the woods in an area about two miles
from one of my locations, three miles from one of

(16:43):
my locations out there, way out there, this is way
up on top. I'm trying to hit the higher elevations
right now before they get shut down by snow, because
I bet you we probably have about two or three
weeks left of getting those higher elevation spots before. I
won't see him again until the snow melts in June
or July. But anyway, he was out foraging for mushrooms
at a location out there that I'm very familiar with.

(17:04):
I've been to the spot several times, even though it's
not exactly at my precise location. And he was poking
around a few hundred yards from his car, which he
left on the road, and he saw a big chantrell
big delicious orange yellowy mushroom that grows here in the fall.
He saw a big chantraill that was gorgeous in a

(17:25):
bush or a brush of something like that, you know,
So he kind of squatted over. It wasn't on all fours,
but he kind of like hunched down low and started
pushing into the middle of the bush in order to
get the chantrelle. And as he did so, a short
distance away I can't remember if he said thirty yards,
maybe thirty forty yards somewhere, that's the feel I got.
At least just a short distance away, he hears a

(17:47):
sound that he interpreted as something standing up from either
a sitting or lying or squatting position, you know. And
of course that's his interpretation, not quite sure if that,
but he said it sounded like some thing stood up
in the brush. Ben it sounded kind of big, you know.
So he stopped for a minute and then and he

(18:07):
looked over there. Then I guess he said he could
hear the thing moving, although it was very very quiet,
but he said he could hear the thing moving kind
of like circling around him and kind of probably just
positioning himself to move away, you know. And he's at
this point he's thinking bear. He's like, oh, well, shoot,
I just served this big bear or whatever. And then

(18:28):
I guess the thing grabs some tree and just shook
the crap out of a tree, just just like violently
shook this thing, and and then that was this guy's
cue to go. He basically said that. He's like, well,
it was pretty clear that I was wanted there, and
I took that. I took that invitation to leave and
did so. But in the meantime, as the thing was

(18:49):
moving through the brush, he kept getting glimpses of black fur.
At some point and I asked him and say, well,
I mean, could that have been a bear, because you know,
bear's poke at trees and rub their back on them,
and you know, just do that kind of thing sometimes,
you know, it's not out of the question that it
could be a bear. And he goes, now, I don't
think so, man. It was just too big. I mean,

(19:09):
the thing was as big as Murphy was. And Murphy
is our bigfoot statue in the back of the NABC there,
and Murphy stands seven and a half feet tall. So
he said that I saw a fur that was at
least as high as your head and probably higher. That's
the level of the fur that I saw above the ground.
So he probably saw a sasquatch, is what I'm thinking. Yeah,

(19:29):
I mean, I mean it sounds everything you need is
there right, quietly moving through the woods, tree shaken, tall,
black fur covered figure in the woods. And the area
is really good. The area is really there's never been
sighting reports out of this specific area, but there's been
stuff not that far away, you know, within five miles,
as I said, And so yeah, I didn't have any

(19:51):
reason to doubt the guy at all, especially since I've
already kind of been interacting with him over the last
couple of years, and I've already deemed him as a
competent observer, so I got the directions best I could.
I tried to get the GPS coordinates, but he had
his location services turned off on the phone when he
took the photographs that he shared with me, so I
wasn't able to get the exact location. But I mean

(20:13):
he gave pretty good directions. He said, go to the
end of the road. There's a there's you know, pull
off on the side of the road right before the end,
there's an obvious parking spot, which there was. Head down
downhill towards the creek. I'm about one hundred yards or so,
and he says, you should see a big root ward
turned over with a bunch of big mushrooms. And I'll

(20:33):
tell you that, I'm pretty sure those are king bullets
or bellets. I guess that's how you pronounce it. These
giant mushrooms that grew up here, and they're really big.
They've got away like the big ones, probably five to
eight pounds because they're all just chalk full of water
and stuff. They're really large mushrooms. You can look them up.
They were everywhere. I never found, in my opinion, I'm
not sure I found the specific root ward he was

(20:56):
talking about because he said there's a root wod with
large mushrooms on it. But there were so many blown
over trees in this area that you know it had
to be in there somewhere, because about one hundred or
hundred and fifty yards down from the road there were
all these blown down trees, and those big mushrooms were
pretty common in the area, so it could have been
any one of those things. He says, at that point,

(21:16):
you head off on the thirty forty yards at a
forty five degree angle to the left, and that's where
he was standing, and he did say that if you
go a little further to the left, you'll run into
an elk wallow, which I did. In fact, I ran
into several elk wallows out there. There's a little a
seat that comes out of the ground in that area,
and right past that is a big swamp which I
also ran into. So I know I'm in the approximate area.

(21:38):
And Keith and I did a lot of walking around.
We actually filmed some stuff. It's not really enough to
make a video for the members for the NABC or
anything like that, but we did document it on video
as best as we can. We found a couple like
maybe footprints, but the tracking was in you know, we
found elk, we found deer, there was there was bear

(21:59):
sign mostly in the law of very very large turds.
But found a couple maybe tracks that like maybe, but
like really not even enough to make me think probably
just like, well, maybe that could be one. You know,
there's two or three of them in a row here.
Maybe that is one, don't know. And we just kind
of gave it about an hour and a half two

(22:19):
hours of walking around in the brush and it was
raining and it was cold. It was like thirty eight
degrees and it was raining pretty hard, and yeah, and
then of course I'm walking through like, you know, six
foot tall BlackBerry brush or not BlackBerry blueberries. Thank god,
I want to walk through blackberries stuff with blueberries. So
I'm just drenched, just completely drenched and trying to get

(22:42):
over my illness and all this other stuff. And I
keep doing this to myself. But we didn't find anything
that we could really hang our hats on. But what
I think is interesting is that on the drive out,
you know, I've been talking about these tree breaks that
we've been finding in a couple of my areas with
these odd branches bent back upon themselves that I've nicknamed

(23:03):
do dads and whatever else. And so I'm trying to
pay attention to other locations that have tree breaks.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
Well.

Speaker 3 (23:09):
On the way out there, there were plenty of broken trees,
you know, here and there. But this is a high
elevation area, and I would expect snow and weather and
stuff to do damage up there. But I would stop
and look at all the trees that I would see
on the side of the road that might be broken
in case there was a dudad on there or some
other sign that a sasquatch may or may not be
responsible hair or something, you know. But one of the

(23:31):
trees that caught my eye, I think it was a cottonwood.
I'm not really good with my trees, but I'm pretty
sure it was a cottonwood. It was still green, you know,
which isn't that telling, but it was fairly fresh, I guess,
you know, like last couple of months it was broken.
There was this tree that was broken about seven or
eight feet off the ground. I said, we'll stop and

(23:53):
look at that one, because it was broken in the
midst of a bunch of other trees that were not broken,
and in an odd direction that caught my eye. So
when we got out and looked there, there seemed to
be a footprint at the base of it, a big
flattened area where something had pushed something. The ground had

(24:13):
been pushed down. Basically all the all the needles and
stuff were pushed into the dirt at that point, and
it had what I interpret as a toe, one toe
impressed into the ground. I think it was fairly old though,
because the toe that was impressed, if I'm right and
it was a toe, it was kind of sheltered because

(24:34):
it was pushed forward into the hill, so it had
like a cave like structure, so which is why it
didn't get washed out like the other ones may have
been washed out because I think it was at least
a few weeks old, at least a few weeks old,
maybe older, but anyway, that was of interest. So that
all happened on Saturday, this past Saturday, So it was
encouraging that we got another fresh report because there hasn't

(24:57):
been a There have not been a lot of fresh
reports in the last few months. In particular, We're expecting
a few more over the over the summertime because we
usually had some pretty good ones coming in, but it's
been kind of slow.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
So do you think people are more reticent to tell
other employees versus you, like when you're there a lot
and people are like, oh hey, it's Cliff, Hey, let
me tell you what happened to me, versus.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
Like you'd mentioned.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
There was one the other day, was it Dave? Where
a guy come in and he asked Dave, like you
ever seen one of these things? And Dave was like, no,
have you? And the guy was like, actually yes, and
it was like he might have come and gone without
ever telling that story. So do you think that's part
of it, Like when you're there less, maybe less stories
get recorded.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
I'm confident that's true, Yeah, because sometimes I'll come in
the shop and somebody will have been shopping or I've
already been in the back and they're getting ready to leave,
and then they see me and we talked for a minute,
then they tell me their story. Yeah, So I'm confident
that happens. How much that happens, I don't know, but
I know it does happen that, you know, when they
probably come in they don't realize that, you know, I hire,

(25:59):
you know, pretty good people who are rather knowledgeable about
Bigfoot and to various extents, you know, but they're probably
looking for me to tell because they kind of know me,
which is an odd thing.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
You know.

Speaker 3 (26:10):
Another customer had the insight to point out to me
the other day that it's like, it must be very
odd for people to come in the shop and know
so much about me, you know, and I'm used to it,
so I don't even think about it anymore. But it's
like somebody says, yeah, like like I'll come in here
today and I know that. You know, Melissa was in
Pittsburgh and a couple of weeks ago or whatever in August,
and he started telling me all these things about my life,

(26:33):
and I said, yeah, it is weird that you know
all these things. But again, I talk about it on
the podcast, So of course people know things about my life,
because if I can't talk about my life on the podcast,
I've had nothing else to share.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yeah, that's a I think a big part of podcast
is they do create sort of like parasocial relationships. You know,
like there's people I've been listening to for years and
so it's like, yeah, I feel like I kind of
know that person because you've heard them over so many
hours and different iterations and all that, and so yeah,
like if I had something to share with him, I

(27:04):
would probably do it, you know what I mean. So
I do think that to your point, when people come in,
if you're there, if they've had an encounter and they
feel reticent about it, they're more likely to tell you.
And if they're at all reticent, they're not going to
tell a total stranger, because at least they have a
parasocial relationship with you.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:21):
Absolutely, Yeah, So it's going to be good that I'm
going to be back in the shop, but on a
more regular basis, so you know, if somebody's looking for me,
they can find me. Then you know, I hope to
record some more reports from the area, you know, I mean,
everybody knows that reports aren't exactly my thing, but I
sure like to know where and when they happened, because
that points me in the right direction. That's what any
good sighting report that the main purpose isn't just the story,

(27:44):
it's actually to point you in the right direction of
where you should be looking. So and of course this
one this past weekend just kind of reaffirmed that that
area that I've already been working for a while is
still active and still good.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
Do you still get a bunch of sending to you, Bobo,
like through the uh, I think your Facebook or social
media things.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
Dude, I haven't looked at those things in months.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
We get very few like in the podcast, but every
once in a while, and we get a lot from
northern California. So I always ford you like I ford
you anytime someone fills out a report for him, if
ford it to you. But it is funny to see, Yeah,
how many come from northern California. So I always feel like, oh, yeah,
they're specifically probably trying to get in touch with Bobo.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
You know, I'm gonna do a couple of interviews this
week actually, some people just for like some bonus stuff
for the Patreon.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
We'll be right back after these messages.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
Cliffs, I know you got a Jeff Papers and you
know his collection of Bigfoot stuff that you've been going
through it.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
Yeah, yeah, found some good stuff in there too. I mean,
obviously it's there's gonna be a tremendous amount of good
stuff in there. But yeah, back up a little bit,
because we haven't really talked about this on the air,
and doctor Meltrim has been gone for a while now,
you know, a month or so. Yeah, so I've been
I've been humbled, I think is a good way to
say it. I've been humbled with the responsibility of doctor

(29:15):
Meltrim's collection. When he he died, you know, he left,
he wanted me to have his stuff, basically his big
foot stuff, which is obviously an extraordinary responsibility. And I
can't tell you how humbling it is. And if I
didn't have an inferiority complex beforehand, I certainly do now
because I've got this tremendous wealth of knowledge from you know,

(29:38):
my mentor, and he's he's passed me the baton to
do something appropriate I think with it. And the first step,
I mean beyond just like the acquisition and getting it
here and making sure that you know, everything was taken
care of that the first step was integrating the footprint casts.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:56):
Yeah, integrating the footprint cast was the first step, which
was a lot harder than I thought it would be.
I mean, you, guys, Mad and Bobo, you've seen how
I organize my collection, basically I have, but most people
have not. I have these baker's racks, you know, like
these aluminum baker's racks, like those twenty shelves high. You
see them in bakeries and all that sort of stuff

(30:17):
for you know, cooling off muffins or whatever. They work
really well for footprints, apparently, because that's why I've been
storing these things for years. That's the way we store
them at the North American Big Foot Center. And they
are these racks. They don't take a big floor space
or like maybe eighteen by twenty four inches or something,
maybe you know a little bit bigger, but approximately that.

(30:39):
And they have shelves like these trays that kind of
slide into the shelves there, and each tray can hold
between one and three or four casts, depending on the
size of the cast. And so I've been and I
store them, you know, alphabetic, alphabetically and chronologically within the alphabet, right.
So that's how I organized my footprint cast. And when

(30:59):
I got doctor Meldrum's collection, which includes the Blue Mountain stuff,
the first thing I did is I had to first
I had to move all those shelves from my garage
down to the outbuilding, which was a scary thing to
do anyway, because I tried a couple methods, Like they
have wheels on the bottom, so I tried rolling one down,
but I've got that big hill on my driveway right,

(31:20):
so that was scary. And then when I got down
to the gravel road, turns out those wheels suck on
gravel roads, so that didn't work well. So I did that.
I did a test run with kind of the rack
that contained the hoaxes and some other stuff, you know,
so if something broke, it wouldn't be a big deal.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
What people realized is your driveways like forty five degrees slow.

Speaker 3 (31:44):
I wouldn't say it's quite that, but yeah, it is steep.
It might as well be forty five. I mean it
has claimed one of Melissa's cars in the snow if
you remember that, Yeah, with a car just slid backwards
on the ice down the hill and went over the
road and over the grass and down the embankment and
almost hit the outbuilding. It was crazy. So, yes, it's
pretty steep. It's pretty steep. It's at least thirty degrees.

(32:05):
I'll say that it's somewhere between thirty and forty five degrees,
but yeah, it's pretty gnarly. But anyway, so what I
eventually had to do is I brought the tractor up,
and then I put the racks on the tractor, on
the on the front loader or the front end loader
or the tractor, and I use ratchet straps and all
these other things to like really really tighten it down,

(32:27):
and then I slowly backed up. And that seemed to
be the most effective wave because I can bring down
an entire rack, and of course I use ratchet straps
to make sure that the trays themselves wouldn't slide out.
And I went so slowly and so carefully, it took
me probably cumulatively for the seventy nine ten, like maybe

(32:49):
twelve racks I had. I bet it took me three
hours to move all three of those rats, or all
twelve of those racks.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
That's pretty quick.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
Yeah, kind of didn't seem quick, but yeah, but I
rolled those into the new room, which you saw Bobo
just recently.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
Yeah, so thank you for moving your trailer. I have
a new room now, So I put the I put
my racks all around the outside wall in some sort
of order, and then I brought doctor Meldrim's casts in
and I kind of stacked them up by location of
where they needed to go. And I've had a lot
of difficult choices to make because at the end of

(33:27):
the day, you know, it's like, say, for example, I
have an original cast from doctor Meldrim, Like I'll just
like a nineteen eighty seven cast from the Blue Mountains
from the Freeman collection or something like that, So I
put that in front of the appropriate rack, and then
of course I already have a copy of that cast.
You know, I had a there were many mini casts

(33:47):
in doctor Meldrim's collection that I already had copies of,
you know, because he was one of my main sources
of getting foot pretty casts.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
And I got the one generation closer to the source
about the original exactly exactly.

Speaker 3 (33:59):
So in these cases is like I had the original cast.
Many times doctor Meldrm might have another copy of that
particular cast line around, I have my copy that I
obtained sometimes years and years ago, and occasionally I would
have a copy of that same cast from doctor Krantz
as well. Oh cool, yeah, because remember doctor Meldrum inherited

(34:24):
a significant portion of doctor Krantz's collection, So what do
I do with all those? Right? So it was kind
of a struggle in some cases, obviously the original is
to be kept. I think doctor Krantz's copy is important
enough to keep because that's a piece of history right there.
And then the doctor Meldrim copies if he wrote on
the back, he has a designation of how he labeled

(34:47):
his casts that I still haven't quite figured out yet,
Like they have like a D thirty seven or something
on the back, and I don't I haven't found the
key yet to that, so I'm not sure what I'm
looking at as far. And I know what the cast is.
I know where came from, because I'm well versed in
the history of footprint casts, particularly the Blue Mountain stuff,
but I don't know that particular designation. If it was,

(35:08):
I could have told you, well that's a different thing.
That's a different thing. But yeah, so I haven't found
those yet, so I'm kind of working on it. So anyway,
I've been faced with a lot of dilemmas. Which wants
to keep, which wants to get rid of, you know,
And some of these might be of interest maybe some
NABC members, you know, because remind you, like I also
inherited doctor Meltrim's molds for these same casts. So if

(35:33):
doctor if Jeff had a copy of one of these casts. Well,
I have the mold for it. I can just make
another copy and it'll be the exact same as his
version of it. So do I keep that one too?
So I don't know. There's a lot of decisions to make.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
Weren't pretty bad? Weren't his molds pretty dried out in
bad shape like a lot of them?

Speaker 3 (35:51):
Yes, and no, there's he has two different versions. He
had two different styles of molds. Basically, he had a
sylastic molds, which are a silicone sort of plastic mix
that doctor Krantz initially started using. And those are fantastic.
I've never worked at that material before, but those casts
or those molds turn out really good copies of the footprints,

(36:16):
and they're easy to work with and it's just a joy.
But that stuff's really expensive. And if I remember, doctor
Krantz somehow came across maybe two or one or two
fifty five gallon drums of that material, so which is
why he was using it. And Meldrum I think obtained
those same drums that he had not finished yet and
made some molds out of that. Those are great, but

(36:36):
he also made latex molds kind of like the ones
I use now, I use water based latex for copying
prints with the latex molds. I suspect, and I don't
know this. I don't know this for a fact. I'm
probably one of our listeners does. But I suspect that
the latex that doctor Krantz and maybe the ones that
doctor Meldrum used were perhaps ammonia based latex, because I

(37:00):
don't like the smell of ammonia, so I never used
that stuff, but I think there's reasons that some people
prefer that. And because all the latex molds that came
with the collection were pretty dry. Many of them were
brittle or cracked in a certain place, and they were
just very very dry. So actually, three or four nights
last week, you know, like after Melissa went to bed

(37:22):
or whatever, she goes a bit earlier than I do,
so nine or ten o'clock at night, I'm out there
in the outbuilding reconstituting those latex molds. I looked up
how to do that. You soak them in water, you
spray them down with the solution and stuff, and I've
actually reinvigorated all of doctor Meldrum's molds, those latex molds
and many of those I believe came from Krantz. I'm

(37:43):
not sure. Really interesting stuff though out there, really interesting casts.
So there's a lot of originals. I'll be just beyond
the Blue Mountain stuff. There's a lot of original casts
in there that are fascinating. Some stuff I have no
idea where it came from. They're not labeled, so I've
got some sleuthing to do. But also to get to
our story point here, I also inherited doctor Meldrim's files,

(38:06):
you know, which included the Vance Orchard files and doctor
Krantz's files as well. Apparently I didn't know Vance Orchard
stuff was in there, but it is. I'm pretty sure
that's what it is. And then of course doctor Krantz's
files super interesting, and then doctor Meldrim's files as well.
So and I think I counted, was it eighteen of

(38:26):
those big totes you know right now out of my
garage full of papers and other things.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
Oh yeah, I went through two of those. That's why
I got to go through two of them with books.
That was Rugs never mind.

Speaker 3 (38:36):
Yeah, that was Mike Rugs stuff. Yeah, it's mostly papers
and a lot of stuff printed from the Internet and
correspondences and stuff. So it's going to take forever to
get through this stuff. So my archivists, I know my
archivists are listening, So you've got your work cut out
for you. Wait till I get things organized here and
I'll start bringing in for you guys at the shop.
But anyway, there's a lot of treasures and a lot
of really interesting historic pieces out there, and one of

(38:58):
the ones I ran into recently, I'm kind of I'm
starting to familiarize myself now that the cast room is
close to being done. I started branching out because you
got to dive into this pile of papers at some point,
right and so I've started going through them and leafing
through them and seeing what's in here, and just kind
of getting a feel for what's in the boxes right

(39:19):
before I start organizing them all. And one of the
things that I ran across that I just found so interesting.
I just shared this with the DABC members last week,
so members, you've already seen this, but this is worthy
of a discussion. I believe it was a letter from
Bob Tipmos. Now, Bob Tipmos, everybody knows is a veteran
Bigfoot researcher, he's been there from the beginning. He's the

(39:40):
guy that instructed Jerry Crewe how to take footprint casts,
which is what gave us the word bigfoot and also
our first Bigfoot footprint cast. You know. So Bob Timmos
was in it from the very very beginning. Doctor Krantz
referred to as one of the most competent observers he knew.
So good guy. But anyway, there's a letter to a
It says, dear George, and we don't even know who

(40:02):
George is at first, but I had later George Hast. Well,
it turns out it is George Haass, but there were
a couple other options. But I thought it was George Haass,
but I confirmed it was George Haas because of some
other historic notes from the Bayery Group collection. You know,
there's some stuff that he wrote back in the day.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
Well, what other George's are there?

Speaker 3 (40:26):
Well, proud you came up with another George.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
It could have been Who was that George Agagino, Remember
he was He was an academic that was pretty supportive
of the subject. He wrote the ford for Ivan T.
Sanderson's book, and he had some other supportive writings. So
he was another George, that was a rend in that timeframe.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
Has I could think of?

Speaker 3 (40:47):
Yeah, I thought it was Haws and it turns out
it is. I found verification in some other documents that
in the mildrum stuff that that it was in fact
George hass At this letter was going to and this
letters dated September thirteenth, nineteen six. And you know, we
can put this the picture of the letter up on
the member section if you want, Matt Prutt, if you
want to do that so they can actually see the

(41:07):
paper itself. But yeah, it was written on September thirteenth,
nineteen seventy. Pretty good ways back right.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
The only bone with that letters is not in his handwriting.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
Oh yeah, because it does have such beautiful handwriting.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
I do have a couple other historic letters actually in
his handwriting, which are interesting, but not originals or photocopies
of the originals. Okay, let's see should I read, Matt?
You think I should read the whole thing or just
the pertinent part.

Speaker 5 (41:32):
I think read the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
The whole thing.

Speaker 3 (41:34):
Yeah, okay, So the letter starts with Dear George, my
apologies for being so long in answering your letter when
it arrived. I was one hundred and fifty miles from here,
out in the bush northeast of Hazleton, where John Green
got word to me that he and I were to
be in Salt Lake City the next evening to meet

(41:54):
with the film company and help with the computer programming.
What panic to get back here to get cleaned up, packed, etc. Etc.
And make the early morning flight from the airport thirty
miles from here. I read your letter and my other
mail somewhere between here and Utah. Since returning, I've been

(42:16):
out in the bush for the most part of the time.
An answer to your question, to the best of my recollection,
on a few occasions I have heard the rock pounding
sound that you describe, but as best as I can recall,
I arrived at no conclusion as to what was responsible
for this noise, and was only puzzled about it. These

(42:38):
cases could all well have taken place before I started
to seriously investigate and to hunt Bigfoot, some twelve or
thirteen years ago. I just can't remember. However, if this
were the case, I would not have associated it with Bigfoot.
Bill Hampton has a valid thought regarding bears snapping their jaws. However,

(42:59):
I doubt that an experienced woodsman would ever confuse a
bear popping his teeth with the rock pounding sound. By
the way, especially in dealing with grizzlies, when they start
popping their teeth at you, it's prudent to be prepared
for a charge, for they do this both as a
warning and challenge. Give old hamp my hello and good

(43:21):
wishes next time you see him. Haven't seen him for
fifteen years. In nineteen fifty eight or nineteen fifty nine,
Art Long and myself were tracking bigfoot on Upper Bluff Creek.
These tracks were fresh as you'll ever find. Shortly after
they left the creek and started climbing the mountain, we
were brought up short by what sounded like something pounding

(43:44):
on a rather hollow tree or perhaps log with a
very big club. These sounds were being made in what
could have been taken to be a coated series. Eventually
I found a large stick and a log and started
pounding out a series of my own. Each time I
stopped my series of pounding, it was repeated from above exactly,

(44:10):
both in timing and the number of blows I had struck,
only very much louder. This continued for some fifteen or
twenty minutes, whereas this story or experience is much too
long to recount here. At this time, I am just
as convinced today as Art and I were that day.
It happened that one of the Bigfoot creatures was doing

(44:33):
the pounding some thirty or forty yards ahead of us
in the dense timber and undergrowth. Art refused to move
one step further in that direction and wanted only to
return post hace. So my investigation of the area the
sound had come from was done rather hurriedly, was incomplete,
and did not prove anything one way or the other.

(44:55):
Don't bother yourself, George, wondering if it could have been
any of the usual animals or another human. It wasn't.
We've already been through that. Hoping the above will be
of some little help to you. I'll say bye for
this time and be off to the bush near Hazelton again.
All the best wishes, Bob, tipmos.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
Ah so.

Speaker 3 (45:16):
Very rad Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with
Cliff and Bogo. Will be right back after these messages
to mind now. A few months later, George Hass actually
published this particular letter from Bob in his newsletter from

(45:40):
the Bar Area Group newsletter Manimals Now isn't animals?

Speaker 5 (45:44):
Manimals was McLaren's thing, that's right.

Speaker 3 (45:47):
Yeah, I was the Bigfoot bulletin, the Bigfoot bulletin.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
So he actually published this letter a few weeks or
a few months later, and it's quarterly newsletter. But but
so that makes this possibly possibly the very very first
written account of tree knocking.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
I wish we could see George's letter because he's saying,
in answer to your question, to the best of my recollection,
I have heard the rock pounding that you described. Oh yeah,
he's responded, like George, it's.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Like, hey, have you ever heard this?

Speaker 3 (46:15):
You know that kind of thing? Yeah, yeah, so it
makes me wonder. But who knows, Maybe that's in there too.
There's files on George Haas. Who knows what's in there.
You know, we will see, we will see. But yeah,
very interesting stuff because this and that was in fifty
eight or fifty nine. You know, that was like at
the birth of Bigfoot essentially, and you know, as I'm

(46:36):
kind of gathering things together and trying to gather information
and maybe even trying to get a book outline together
or something, like that. I've run across other things that
were observed i'll say, discovered in nineteen fifty eight or
fifty nine, including tree snaps and tree twists. Like some
of these things that we kind of take for granted,
they were there from the very very beginning, and tree

(46:58):
knocking is apparently one of them. It's so interesting to
me that doctor Meldrum, I think, finally came around to
the tree knocking thing, but for many many years he
was like, I don't know about that. Because even in June,
when I got to spend so much time with him
before he passed in June, he says, so, Cliff, you
really think these things knock? They go absolute one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
I can't believe you never, like I remember like just
doing like what do you like, Jiff? How can you
not know that's what they do? Like? Do they definitely
do it one hundred percent? Well?

Speaker 3 (47:25):
I think it was just very very skeptical and wanted
as much input as possible, you know, which you can't
blame any scientists or person. We should all be like
that in a way.

Speaker 2 (47:32):
But I double guaranteed it. Cliff.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
Yeah, well of course you did, and I'm sure that
your your voice carried much more weight than most other people's.
But yeah, really cool letter, really interesting correspondence, a window
into the past, like I said, probably to at least
to my knowledge at least. I mean, if there's another one,
I'd love to hear about it from our listeners. Send

(47:55):
it to you know, to be on podcast at gmail
dot com. If there's an earlier reference to tree knocking
in any sort of way, I would love to know
about it, because that's, you know, November of fifty eight
or fifty nine, that Bob Tipmos is down a Bluff
Creek and tracking a Sasquatch and this is what he
this is what he heard down there. And it's not
only did he hear knocking, hear the pounding, but he

(48:17):
would do it and it would copy him. That's super
significant because that's the kind of thing that occasionally happens
even still today. But right there in November of fifty
eight or fifty nine, Bob Tipmos was pounding cadence and
number of pine and like those things were being answered
in kind to imitate his own pounding in the depths
of Bluff Creek, and Bluff Creek's a wild place today.

(48:39):
I can only imagine what it was like in fifty
eight or fifty nine.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
Yeah, I remember, I had that happened to me a
couple of years ago. Remember I told you about that
where I was clapping my hands and it was daytime
and it was clapping back in the Redwoods.

Speaker 3 (48:51):
Oh, yeah, it happened. I'm on camera doing it with
something in Australia. Yeah, the kind of thing happens. Yeah,
very interesting. And you know this may I mean, I
think there's earlier I think there's earlier mentions of rock clacking.
I could be wrong, but I think the rock clacking
thing dates back earlier. Maybe not in association with Bigfoot,

(49:12):
but in some of those historic newspaper reports. I have
it in my head that there's an earlier reference to that,
and I don't know what it is. But maybe again,
maybe one of our listeners does and they can send
it her away. But I don't think this is the
first time that rock clacking was associated with it. But
to my knowledge, tree knocking is so. But who's art long?

Speaker 5 (49:32):
That is a good question because that didn't sound familiar
to me.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
Oh, wasn't he a logger? Was he a local lagger?

Speaker 4 (49:38):
Up? There?

Speaker 2 (49:38):
No idea I think that might. I think he might
have been a local logger up there.

Speaker 3 (49:42):
Let's see if I can come up with that answer
real fast.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
I googled art long Bigfoot, but I don't see anything, you.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Know, I was looking up. I just look that kiddy
matt where he lived up there in BC. He was
he was right there, I mean he could he was.
I mean that that place is awesome. It's way north
of Bella, coolas. I mean, it's up there in northern
BC and like just a killer spot. I went at
the head of an inlet.

Speaker 3 (50:05):
That's where I think it was a taxi driver or something.
Wasn't he up There'd be great if somebody got the
resources together to write a biography of Bob Timmis, because
so little is known about him, because he didn't bother
writing anything now or sharing. He wasn't out there for attention.
He was just doing it right. Yeah, there might be
photographs of this other footprinting casts out there, and I
have photographs with all the collection that's in the Willow

(50:26):
Creek Museum. But oh, speaking of the Willow Creek Museum,
do you guys see the new documentary. I watched it myself,
and I hardly ever watch any bigfoot stuff.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
I just watched it last night.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
It's called Willow Creek. It's on YouTube. Turned out it
was a student project, but they released it on YouTube
and apparently it's making the rounds. And our good friend
Eric Nelson, who's one of the guys the board of
directors volunteers at the Willow Creek Museum, he's the central
figure in it. Todd Samples, Yeah, Todd Samples is in there.
When camping with him this past June out of the Bluff Creek.

(50:56):
He was a really good guy, a good tracker, super
fun guy.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
The only problem, my problem with it, it was just
kind of as another just talking heads rehashing the same stuff.
It was like the production on it was like a
plus plus like better than anything you see on TV. Really,
like you know, the cinematography and all that. But I
like the but in the end it was I was
like kind of waiting for him to go out and
do stuff and show more stuff from the field, and

(51:21):
it was just kind of just interview.

Speaker 3 (51:23):
Yeah, yeah, but it was it was a student project
after all, you know.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
Oh yeah, I mean for for like some of this
is any thing about bigfoot introduction, it was it was
it was good?

Speaker 3 (51:31):
Yeah, yeah, I liked it. I liked it, and of course,
anything we can do to help the Willow Creek Museum
get on everybody's map. I think it is better for
the subject and better for the Willow Creek area, of course,
So I was thrilled that somebody did that.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Since you're going through that stuff, is there anything else
you've you've stumbled across yet that you like a holy
crap moment?

Speaker 3 (51:51):
Oh yeah, yeah, there's been even packing it up. There
were a lot of holy crap moments.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
You should have. You should have a weekly update clip
on your holy craps.

Speaker 3 (52:01):
It'd be like another Bobo story time but different.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
Yeah, way better.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
Yeah, I'm just saying you have a lot of crap
in your in your a lot of fecal stories, shall
we say? Well, you know, I've been trying to I'm
going to start doing some more updating the well not updated.
I'm going to be notifying I guess the NABC members

(52:25):
as things come together. But I'm also hesitant, like, for example,
just as a quick teaser, I guess before because I
see we're kind of running out of time here. As
a quick teaser, I found you know, obviously, I have
the original five point tracks from Meldrum in nineteen ninety six,
and Jeff kept a stack of photographs in the same
drawer as his casts from the Five Points area ninety six.

(52:49):
Those are the ones that he details in this book
at the beginning of his book and talks about all
the details he saw, and it's what really convinced him
that these animals are real and that he would be
negligent of his duty as an anthropologist to ignore this question,
especially when he was so perfectly qualified to look into
this particular kind of evidence, you know, as being an

(53:11):
expert in foot anatomy than by pedalism. So I've got
those the original casts now, and as well as much
of photographs of those footprints in the ground, as well
as probably a dozen or more others. Just the other night,
like two nights ago, maybe I opened a file and
there were other photographs from that same scene, including a

(53:33):
picture taken by Jeff's brother that of doctor Meldrum like
kneeling down documenting one of the footprint casts, which is
really interesting and a snapshot into history, because it was
that moment that really solidified I think Jeff was very
interested in the subject. But it was that moment which
was which was Jeff's first in person contact with the evidence,

(53:57):
you know, and that's what really did it for him.
And so I ran across a photograph of him examining
these footprints in the ground, as well as handwritten notes.
I don't know if they're from the scene because there's
no dirt or anything on him, but he might have
written them directly afterwards, but it is definitely his handwriting
talking about that day, about how he visited Summerlin and

(54:18):
these other people were present, and then he visited Paul
who and Paul didn't remember who he was at first,
and all that kind of stuffs. And then there's some
handwritten drawing or hand drawn sketches of the footprints in
the ground with various anatomical features pointed out and things
like dat dramaticallythics evident on medial side of this and
that and whatever. So yet, that kind of stuff is

(54:40):
what really tickles my fancy because it's snapshots in the
history that we're still benefiting from. You know, doctor Meldrim
was a giant in our field.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
Oh yeah, you have to get a new building, cliff, you,
I mean, with a Meldrum wing, a crafts wing. I mean,
you we got so much stuff. You need a way
bigger building.

Speaker 3 (55:02):
I know, I know we're gonna need a bigger boat.
Yeah for sure, for sure, But you know eventually, eventually
our rent is so good right now, that's when we
renegotiated our lease. I mean our landlords, who are fantastic people.
I just love our landlords are really really kind, funny people,
and they and I just so appreciate them because they

(55:24):
never check it check up on me. I've made their
building so much better than what it is or what
it was. We bring families to the complex because you
know that there's a bar, there's a pizza place, there's
a coffee place, and an awesome burrito place, and that's
it and besides us, right, so we bring families in
who wouldn't normally be there otherwise, and they go to

(55:45):
other businesses and order coffee or food or whatever. We
get it. We've been on the Discovery Channel, We've been
on Animal Planet, We've been on History Channel. We get
international visitors like almost every week. I mean we had
people from the Netherlands day and the UK on Saturday
when I was there both that same day. What other
thing in Boring, Oregon? Does that, you know? I mean,

(56:09):
it's not a slight against Boring Oregon.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
It's it's aptly named.

Speaker 3 (56:13):
It's an apptly named city, shall we say. I say
it all the time. Nothing against the feed store. But
we are the most exciting thing in Boring.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
Well, you guys, I mean like you're not even really Boring.
I mean you're you're you're a whole little separate, little
like just off the freeway, little little you know, a
couple of buildings, gas station, pizza and the bar or whatever.

Speaker 4 (56:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:31):
Yeah, we're not in downtown Boring, that hustle and bustle
of downtown Boring. But but we are. We are in
the unincorporated city of Boring. So but but anyway, our
landlords recognize the value of what we bring. All the
local uh, tourism industries, mountain hood territories, travel Oregon, all
those people they love us were like like their poster

(56:52):
child from when they need something cool and interesting to
put on the posters and you know whatever else. So
they recognize us, and they were there. My landlords were
exceedingly gracious when we renegotiated our lease. So I think
I'm just gonna bide my time unless something drops in
my lap, that's perfect. I'm just going to bide my
time and save money for that initial down payment on

(57:15):
that commercial loan that it would be necessary because because
otherwise I got to have to refinance, you know, things
that I have and stuff, and it's like it's just
a big and the museum doesn't get to buy the property,
you know, Cliff and Melissa have to buy the property,
you know, which is which changes the dynamic of the
interaction quite a bit, you know, when I'm when I'm

(57:36):
buying a big building and stuff like that. So it's
a little complex. But luckily, our rent is so forgiving
at this point that I can do with a slightly
smaller than wished facility for the sake of saving money
for a better one someday. You know, I can sock
this money away because they expect to really like a

(57:57):
ten to fifteen percent down payment and these and the
commercial building the size that we need is not going
to be cheap.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
So yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (58:06):
Think the smart thing to do. And again, unless something
perfect drops in my lap, I get it. You know,
I won't turn that away because my landlord, this sounds
like my landlords said, you know, if you find the
great they know I'm looking, and they said, if you
get something, just come talk to us. We'll work it out,
you know. So they're not going to like as sue
me or something if something great happens and something drops
in my lap. So yeah, they're really really nice people

(58:29):
like I can't see their praises high enough. So anyway, Yeah,
they're aware that we need a larger building, and they're
aware that we're kind of halfway keeping an eye out
and if something drops my lap, great, But in the meantime,
my rent is so forgiving that I might as well
stay there and just you know, out with the old
and of the new. Like the next few months, we'll
be pulling out some of the old displays that we've

(58:49):
had up for a couple of years and putting brand
new ones in. I've got a couple of new photographs.
I have photographs of sasquatches that I have permission to
use by their owners, so I'll be putting those up here.
Of course, we have the doctor Meldrum and doctor Krantz
collection as well to integrate somehow. And Brian Smith, the
veteran bigfoot researcher, just gave me the original co cuter
bill cast. I want to make a display out of that.

(59:12):
We got to have him on as a guest as well.
There's a lot of cool things coming up, and wintertime
is our time to do it because summer's too busy
with customers. We just can't we can't pull away. But
wintertime gets a little quiet and lonely in the NABC,
so it gives us more time to improve the place.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
So is that I guess that's about a wrap then
for this.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
Week, I think we covered a lot of ground.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
Yeah. Yeah, that was a good one. I enjoyed it.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
I hear from a lot of people that they enjoy
us just kicking things around and the banter between friends.
You know, it's nice to have interviews and stuff like
that and guests and everything. But at the same time,
I don't hear any negative reviews of us just hanging
out and shooting the poop.

Speaker 5 (59:51):
Yeah, that tends to be a lot of people's favorite
type of episode.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
Well cool, all right, we folks were Now next, we're
going to go listen to Matt Preuitz, the best bigfoot
ed bondistore I've heard in at least a decade, so
we're gonna go over there and out of our Patreon
and do that over there for our members. So thanks
for listening, and until next week, you'll keep it Squatchy.

Speaker 3 (01:00:17):
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
If you liked what you heard, please rate and review
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(01:00:37):
and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag
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