April 8, 2025 • 50 mins
This week we got a legend on the pod as Hall of Famer Alex English joins Q and D on Knuckleheads. One of the best players in Nuggets history looks back on his journey in South Carolina, growing up in a segregated South, staying home in Colombia for college, and setting all the Gamecock records. He talks about what the draft process was like in the ’70s, finally landing in Denver after not playing in his early seasons, and how it felt to become one of the best players in the league. We got one of the most underrated players ever — tune in!
- Choosing to stay home and going to South Carolina for college (9:50)
- Draft process in the 70’s, getting picked by the Bucks (15:19)
- Going to the Pacers, starting to get real minutes (20:39)
- Getting traded to Denver, becoming an all star (22:51)
- Losing in the Conference Finals to Magic and the Lakers in 1985 (30:55)
- Thoughts on Nikola Jokic and his dominance (32:30)
- Having one of the greatest retro jerseys ever (35:39)
About Our Hosts:
NBA veterans Quentin Richardson and Darius Miles are lifelong friends and bona fide truth-tellers. Listen as they invite special guests, high-profile athletes, musicians and entertainers to get brutally honest about everything from current events to untold stories from the golden era of sports and culture. Named for the on-court celebration they made wildly popular, this unfiltered, hilarious and surprising podcast is like playing NBA 2K with no fouls.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
First of all, thank you. It's honor and pleasure to
have you on the show. My uncle used to talk
about you all the time. I think he was like
your biggest fan. Always used to tell me about you.
But we really appreciate you coming on the show and
spend your time with us.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Well, it's my pleasure. Good afternoon, and I'm happy to
do this.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
First question is when you first got to the league,
who's the first person to bust your ass?
Speaker 4 (00:30):
First person? Uh?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Man, that's that's a tough one because I came off
the bench when I.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
First got to the league.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I would say my toughest the toughest player that I
had to guard was the guy that played on my team.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
The name was Bobby Dandridge.
Speaker 5 (00:49):
Okay, yeah, yo, yo yo. We live on location me
and the blackest one man. We got one of the
best players of all time with us today. Were very
privileged to have our og an eight time NBA All Star,
three times All NBA Second Team and he's also in
(01:11):
the National Basketball Hall of Fame. His jersey Haynes in
the Denver Arena we got missed at alex English in
the building.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
We appreciate you pulling up og. All right, thank you guys,
it's good to be.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Here, yes, sir, South Carolina. How was it growing up
(01:44):
in that time in South Carolina? And what made you
pick up the basketball? And who put the basketball in
your hand?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Growing up in Columbia, South Carolina back in the sixties
was not easy, very segregated. Grew up in of course,
all black neighborhood and very poor. I grew up in
a household of thirteen brothers, sisters, and cousins, three roomhouse.
And for me, it was fun, you know, growing up
in Columbia, even though you know, we had the segregation
(02:17):
and we had the racism that was strong back then.
Being a young kid, you didn't pay as much attention
to it. You know, when you're young, you played whatever
sport is in season. So we played basketball, we played baseball,
we played football, whatever was in season we played. And
(02:38):
I took a liking to football, and I was I
played defensive end, and I got away from football on
my first my first, my first game, they swept my
inn and swept me away, and that was in.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
I know.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
My basketball coach said, you you should just stay with
this game, and so I did.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
What gave you the love for basketball and who taught
you like the fundamentals of basketball.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
You know, as you all know, playing the game of basketball,
there is no two things that are the same every time,
so you know, two players are the same, It's all different.
And what I loved about it was the creativity. And
to me, it was my dance, it was my ballet,
(03:34):
you know, my hip hop. Whatever I did on the
basketball court was my way of expressing myself and nobody
else could do it. I mean, like you guys have
your own styff. So I learned the way I did
learn to play and I enjoyed it. You know, I
love art, loved dance, and to be able to do
(03:57):
it every night was like a lot of fun for me.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
On all the things that you can add.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
As you know, when you work on your game in
the summertime, you know, to get better, you start doing
little things to make the game different and to make
that better for you.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
At what age would you say that you started to
see like I'm pretty good at basketball, like a little
bit better than the rest of the guys around me.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
It took I'd say my ninth grade year, you know,
my eighth grade year I played for my junior high
school team and never got a chance to play. You know,
I was growing so fast, and I was kind of awkward,
and you know, the coach just didn't see anything, any.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Kind of talent in me.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
But I started growing and between my eighth and ninth
grade years, I grew four inches, so I went from
six one to six four, and you know, you know,
being a taller player, this coach said, well, we might
as well try and find something in it. But during
that summer between eighth and ninth grade, I started really
enjoying the game and working on the game, and I
(05:01):
got better during that period.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
When did you to me, like in today's game, I
feel like the best players are the players who.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Have a mill range game.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
You're the best mill range guy out there. When you
was coming up, what made you concentrate and style your
game in a mid range game like the fifteen to
fourteen thirteen footers.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Well, that's all we had. We didn't have the three
point line when I was growing up. You know, we
had to work well, if you visualize the three point line, now,
from that three point line to the basket was our
work area.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
Yea, So we had to be able to.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Score in that area, and for me, it was a
matter of playing an off balance game and you know,
catching a guy when he's in his defensive stands and
not expecting you to shoot. Shooting or running one hander.
You know that it was long and lanky, but wasn't
that strong. Wasn't and you couldn't jump so high. But
(06:06):
I had to have other little twos to make my
game work, and I added those little things.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
Every summer. I would, you know, work.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
On a running one hand or work on an off
balance running one hander, you know. But the thing that
I would say made my game effective was that it
was mid range. But I always knew to follow, you know,
the basic stuff that we all learned.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Follow the shots, get the putbacks.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
You know it's going to go to the other side
of the basket if it goes off. So all those
little things that I learned when I was growing up
were things that helped me when I got to be
an NBA player.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah, I was telling these kids all the time, like,
if you master the fundamentals, then you can start adding
all your flash and all the other stuff that you
want to work on. But you know, a lot of
these kids want to skip the fundamentals and go straight
to the behind the backs and all that stuff.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
And to the three point line, yea.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
And to the three three point lily to that.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
They don't know that the beauty of the game is
between the three point line and the basket. That's where
you see all the creativity. You can catch the ball
and shoot it. But to get to that basket and score,
you gotta be able to maneuver.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
You gotta go through pitch screens, physical work, all that.
Like you said, you gotta be able to dance, you
got you gotta be able to dance.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Growing up in South Carolina in high school, was y'all
limited to playing all black schools?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Did y'all play like white schools in high school?
Speaker 4 (07:34):
And how was my first year? Well, my junior high
school years.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
They desegregated the South, so I went to a mixed school.
And you know, all all the black schools in the
white schools mixed. So it wasn't all black school It
was all mixed, so I got to play with, you know,
different people.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Was that like a culture shock for you?
Speaker 5 (07:58):
Like you're saying, you're coming from all black neighborhood, growing
up around all blacks and being that happens and then
all of a sudden, you were in school with white
kids and teachers and stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
How was that adjustment? It was?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
It was, but as being a young player, that happened
when I was in the seventh grade. So being in
the seventh grade and mixing with other people.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
It was, you know, you were still young.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
And you you didn't really pay as much attention to
the segregation because this was the beginning of the big experiment.
We're going to bring them all together, and they brought
us all together, and you you know, the white kids
were they were fine.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, averaging thirty one as a junior like run that
season off to it because in ninth grade you feel
like you were kind of better than the other kids.
And then to get to the point to average thirty one,
everybody know thirty points is the is the hive thirty
points score?
Speaker 3 (09:00):
You want to guy, you know, the average thirty one
year junior.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Year in high school? Like, explain that season for us?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Well, it was just what I said, It was just
simple stuff.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
It was shooting good. I had a good team too.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
I had good teammates, and I knew what my role
was and my role was a dude, was the block shots, rebound,
and play defense. And that's what I did. But my
team needed me to score more, and I scored more
by doing little things like putting the ball back up
after it came off the rim, getting layups. And I
(09:38):
didn't really develop a jump shot, a mid range jump
shot until I got to my freshman year in college.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
When you came out of high school, was it like,
what was the process of like college? Just looking at you,
was it a bunch of colleges?
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Was it a few?
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Or could you almost went somewhere else outside of South Carolina?
Speaker 4 (10:04):
Yeah? You know.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Back then, you know, you would get a letter from
a school and they would tell you that they're interested
in you, and you know, you just sift through them
and they invite you to come visit. And I got
a chance to go visit some schools, and I felt
like I could have a better effect on my community
by staying in South Carolina. I'm a big community guy.
(10:28):
During that period of time, African Americans didn't want to
come to the University of South Carolina because they felt
that if they came to University of South Carolina, they
were going to get buried on the bench. And my
thing with my coach was to change that. So when
I came, you know, I was not going to be
denied playing time after I got here, and Columbia was
(10:52):
a hot bed for basketball time. After I came, we
had three more guys from the Columbia area decided to
come and play, and that's when the school really became
more integrated basketball wise. It you know, it was a
big thing for me to come and stay home and
be a part of the community.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
I'm a big.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
I believe in trying to advance the African American situation
in this country, and even when I was young, that
was big and important to me. So I felt that
if I stayed, I would be a magnet for others
to come.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
And it worked.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Yeah, you say, you start shooting jump shots your freshman years.
What coach or who kind of taught you to like,
you need to add this mid range jump shot to
your game. You need to start shooting more jumpers. And
did they teach you like with form or you was
a natural guy that had natural form.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I'm gonna tell you the story I played my junior
year in high school. I played against a guy who
was a good friend of mine now was a great
basketball player, from the upstate of South Carolina. His thing
was Clyde Maids, and we played them for the championship
and he kept blocking my shot. You know, I felt
(12:16):
like we lost the game because I couldn't score and
my team depended on me. So during that summer, I
got in the gym and I said, what can I
do to make it more difficult for people to block
my shots? And I realized that if I could jump
as high as I could and extend my arm as
(12:38):
high as I could and release at the tip, it
would be more difficult. So that's what I worked on
all summer, and when I got to college, I was
better at it. You know, I didn't have people blocking
my shot as easily. And as you get older and
you start working on your game, you perfected different things
about your game as you get older. So I got
(12:59):
better with the men range jump shot, turned around jump
shot as I got older, and as I played more.
Speaker 5 (13:05):
You said that when you got there, you know, you
wanted to change how everybody looked at going to South
Carolina and you weren't.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Gonna be denied.
Speaker 5 (13:13):
Was that part of you saying that you was going
to start and play in every single game and never
missed a game. Like, dude, like, when you was doing it,
did you realize how rare that would become?
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Well? I realized what I could do.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
And when I got to South Carolina, there was only
one African American that had played there, and he was
my roommate.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
He didn't get to play much. But I was different.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
I was six', eight and even THOUGH i was, SLIM
i was more of an agile. PLAYER i run ran the,
FLOOR i rebounded block. SHOTS i did those kinds of.
Things and you, know my freshman year coming To South,
carolina we had the number one class out of college coming.
(14:01):
HERE i MEAN i had people Like Mike dunlevy and
other guys that played with. Me AND i felt, like,
HEY i came BECAUSE i felt LIKE i could, Play
and you're, RIGHT i was not gonna be.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Denied playing In South.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Carolina after your four years and you have the scoring,
record the all time scoring, record all time rebounding, record
how did you feel to accomplish that at a university
coming from where you came, from to the point where
like you're the all time leading, scorer you're the all
(14:40):
time leading.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Rebounder, well for, me, Well i'm not the all time leading.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Scorer now a guy by the name of bj McKie
has surpassed me as far.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
As At university Of South.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Carolina but you know WHAT i think about WHAT i
did being able to play as a freshman WHEN i came,
out because BEFORE i came, out freshmen couldn't.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Play freshmen were they had another another squad for.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Freshmen but WHEN i came, out they had made it
so that freshman could play AND i got a chance to.
Play SO i THINK i was blessed enough to take
advantage of.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
That when you decided to go to the, draft explain
the process of like how many teams you worked out.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
For pre draft? Process you, Guys you guys have a different.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Perspective WHEN i came out as a second round, pick
they called me on the phone and Said Milwaukee bucks
have drafted.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
You that was. It that was.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
It it was no working out for. Nobody you just.
Reported you reported the training camp in the, fall and
you tried to make the.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Team so what was what was that?
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Like did you get your family together and y'all set
by the phone waiting to see if you're gonna get
one that it was just like you going by your
day and then out the blue day CAME, o.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah i'm, like you, know it was the draft, day
and you, KNOW i knew it was draft day AND
i was HOPING i was gonna get. Drafted and then
my coach called me and, said, yeah you got drafted
in the second.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
ROUND i, was, oh, great not knowing.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Exactly what that, meant but he looked me up with
one of his friends who was an attorney to be my,
agent and that's HOW i got.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
Started so, basically it was like they basically watched our,
games watched the games and then, decided like on draft,
day who they were gonna.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Take and then you guys found out by phone. CALL
i was no.
Speaker 5 (16:35):
Bringing guys in working. Out it was just we watched
them and this is what we want to take. It
when it comes out of, time we just gonna call
them and say you drafted.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
You, yeah nothing like what you all. Did it was
just a phone. Call you got. Drafted we drafted you
in the second. Round and you, KNOW i got my first.
YEAR i got my bonus for signing with The Milwaukee.
Bucks it was ten thousand dollars and my first year
was THAT i Made IF i made the, TEAM i
(17:03):
would get fifty, Thousand so my total compensation that year
was sixty thousand off and there was no guarantee for
the second. Year but it was a two year, deal
so the second YEAR i would go up to sixty.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Thousand IF i made the. Team that was.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
It so it wasn't you, know that wasn't that umbre
that parachute to, Say, okay IF i signed and don't
make the, Team i'm gonna still get paid Because i've
got a guaranteed. CONTRACT i had to go out and
work my tail off each.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Year, sure, sure but what was your Mental like you're
coming from playing every single game in, college you, know
all time leading, score all time leading, rebound to get
into the highest league that's out there and you get limited.
Minutes so how did you just mentally stay focused on
(17:56):
Like i'm gonna stick with. It CAUSE i, heard like
back in the, day guys playing in THE nba and
they still had other jobs and stuff or other things
that they was, doing and the pros some guys.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
DID i was blessed to go to a good squad
and you, KNOW i had mentors that were that were. Strong,
uh that guy who beat me out in high school
was also playing for The Milwaukee bucks WHEN i got,
there and we were fighting for the same, position and
(18:27):
he ended up getting cut AND i got to. Stay
but my mentors at that time were people Like Bob
dandridge and the Great Junior bridgeman And Dave. Myers they
were all, there SO i got to learn from from
good quality.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
People so it was it was a lot easier for.
Me BUT i.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
WORKED i worked my tail, off you. KNOW i, Said
i'm not going to be. Denied i'm going to make this.
Team SO i did everything THAT i needed to do
and had a good preseason and almost got cut and
the owner Of Wayne hembry called me down and, said,
hey you, know we called you. Down we want to cut,
(19:07):
you we want to release, you but we feel you're too.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Valuable we're going to keep. You SO i was out
the door.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
And back in the door in one, day and that
was the beginning of my.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
Career, yeah you brought Up Junior, bridgeman as you know
obviously he's recently.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Passed can you talk about how he was as a
mentor for.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
YOU i, mean He i'm like a mentor to so
many of the younger guys and the guys in the
current generation for everything he's accomplished and. Did but talk
about him in those days being your, mentor well he.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Was he was a.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Friend he Was he played the same POSITION i. Played
he played a small, forward two. GUARD i played small.
Forward but he was just one of the best human
beings overall THAT i have ever. Met and even to
the day he, DIED i would SAY i have not
met a better human being Than Junior. Bridgeman you, know
(20:03):
we played together for a couple of. Years we stayed.
FRIENDS i Left milwaukee and he stayed. THERE i was
A wendy's franchise as. Well oh, okay and he is
the one that got me involved In.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Wendy's that's.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Awesome he was a mentor and just a great, friend
great human being WHO i love and respect and will miss.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Dearly so you go to The.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Pacers you wind up going to The Indiana, pacers and
you start. Playing, now you start, playing you start your first,
year you average sixteen eight and three on fifty percent.
Shooting you, know really watching a lot of the games
the first two, years and then in second two years
you actually get an opportunity to get out there and.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Play of what you.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Learn how was it to start playing minutes and trying
to put your feet in the, ground and it was.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Fun it was it was. Great. UH i put the work,
in you, know off, SEASON i would really get to
the gym AND i would work, out and after a
few YEARS i got to play in the summer. LEAGUE
i had people Like Tyrone, Corbin xavier. McDaniel they were
the young players behind me THAT i got to play,
(21:12):
against and you, know we'd go in the gym and
we'd have some. Battles SO i got to work with
them and learn from. THEM i felt That indiana was
going to be a place THAT i could get. BETTER
i got a chance to start my first, year and
that was good for. ME i had never started in THE,
(21:35):
nba so it was good AND i got a chance
to kind, of you, know learn the lay of the.
Land i'd got an opportunity learning From Junior bridgeman And
Bobby dandridge WHEN i was In, milwaukee some of the
two they were two of the best moll forwards around
at that. Time so WHEN i got To, INDIANA i
got a chance to expound upon the stuff That i'd
(21:57):
learned from.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
Them ye second, year you went up to twenty one
point nine seven and seven point, seven and.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Like how was that to?
Speaker 5 (22:05):
Feel like we all know we both were in a
position to our first couple of years we didn't get to,
Play but then once you started to get out, There,
like how did your confidence go once you, know saw
that you were going number, one get a chance to
be out, There but then you saw also that the
success was.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Coming you, know your game was getting your game.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Off it was, fun you, know ONCE i got a
chance to, START i enjoyed, that BUT i wanted to
do WHAT i needed to do for the team to,
win because the next year they traded and Brought Mickey
johnson in and they needed scoring off the. Bench show
(22:42):
they Made mickey the starter and that came off the
bench as the sixth, man and you, know we were
more successful.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Then getting traded To.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Denver you made your First All Star, game and one
of the things that you always want to be respected
by your pero in this league to show that you're
like you're you can play in this league and you
won the best players in the. League how was your
First All Star game appearance and what it was like
when you found out that you made The All star.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
Team of, COURSE i was. ELATED i was just so
excited and over the.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Moon and when we got there to play that, GAME
i don't know IF i got to play that, much
but just being in the whole atmosphere of you, know
being out there being considered one of the. Best you,
know the people were Like Julius irving And Magic, Johnson Larry,
bird you, know guys like that were on the, squad you,
(23:40):
know some of the all time. Greats so it was
it was an honor for, me AND i KNEW i
had put the work, in SO i felt LIKE i
was supposed to be.
Speaker 5 (23:50):
There what was it like in practice for you, guys
because like me and D, miles we had a chance
to work With keiki vand the way we know he
like The Triple.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
Threat got out of the.
Speaker 5 (24:02):
World, like what was it like to be in practice
because like we know the history of both of you guys.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Putting up forties and fifties and.
Speaker 5 (24:10):
Stuff, like what was it like when you first got
there you got a chance to start practicing With Key
Ky vanderway And David thompson And Dan, Issel but like
Mainly Key ky in That Triple, threat what was did
he help you with the mid range? Game just being
in there going against him and seeing some of the
things he was.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Doing What kiki did, was you, know we were both
the same, size and he ended up playing the power
forward if there was a power, forward AND i was
a lot more, slight so he took the brunt of
the of the. Defense but he also had the slower,
player the bigger slow. Player, yeah and as you, know
(24:50):
his first step was just off the.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Chain he would he would rock him.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Going not only would he shoot a jump, chot he
would dunk on him left alright. Hand you, KNOW i
always felt That kiki didn't get what he deserved is
for his, accolades because he was a great. Player if
you backed off of, him he was gonna hit that jump.
Shot you got up on, him he was gonna triple
threat you and go around, you and he could. Rebound
(25:17):
he had really big. Hands, Yeah so he was really
good AND i enjoyed playing with. Him that's WHY i
think when we, played both of us played the small
forward And dan this was the.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
Middle people have difficult time guarding us every.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Night LIKE i was, saying my uncle used to always
rave about, you and to the point that he used to,
say you was the greatest score in the.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Eighties he was the best score in the.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Eighties and it made me do my homework Because i'm
big on history and big on trying to know who
came before me SO i can move. FORWARD i was
always big on. History but you're one of the most
underrated guys. Ever you, know in the, eighties they say
a lot of names that was more.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Popular you, know The, iceman's the Doctor, j's the you,
know you can name so.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Many do you feel like you're one of the most
underrated players ever IN nba?
Speaker 4 (26:20):
HISTORY i, KNOW i. Am you, KNOW i.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Know what my work, is AND i KNOW i look
at my body of work AND i put it up against,
anybody and for, me it was an insult not to
be one of the top fifty. Players and THEN i, said,
okay well maybe the top seventy. Five and it's still
not make it at the top seventy.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
Five you, know it was an. Insult BUT i know
that people that know the.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Game know my, work AND i AM i can be
okay with.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
IT i know WHAT i.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Did, yeah my uncle used to make me study the
game when it came to you and what you did
on the block and what you did in the mirror,
range especially me being a Small. FORD i, know we
grew up In, illinois so you, know we all wanted
to be Like, mike but my game kind of veeried
a little bit towards pipping a little more than Than
(27:17):
Michael jordan's when you scored fifty.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Four tell us about that night fifty.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Four, well And i'm sure both of you all have
probably had that night, too where.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Everything just was.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Going, yeah you, Know i've had a few games like,
that but you, know that, night it was just like
ALL i had to do was just throw it up
there and it was going to go in the.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
Basket but it was a.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Feeling it's a feeling that you have that you can't
describe to anybody else.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
Exactly you know what it.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Is it's that, feeling and people who've had that feeling
they know What too're just in, it just in.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
It people ask you what she ate or whatever's.
Speaker 5 (28:03):
Going, yeah Liked mile said about you being, underrated and
you spoke on it.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
Too like we Had James burthy on here on.
Speaker 5 (28:10):
The, show and when we asked him who was the
first person to bust his, ass your.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Name was the first name out of his.
Speaker 5 (28:16):
Mouth just you know What i'm, saying just about how
you was able, to you, know shoot the, ball and
like how you said you worked on being able to
shoot and get your shot. Off he was like he
was able to get to the. Spots he had a
great triple threat. Game being able to just do what
he wanted with me was like he had my head,
spinning you. Know he being A North carolina, guy he
was somebody that you, know knew who you, were but
(28:36):
he was, like, yeah no. Doubt he was the one
who gave me the first buckets WHEN i got in the.
League WHO i really couldn't do nothing.
Speaker 6 (28:43):
With, yeah we had we had some classic matchup Jeans
worthy AND, I but during my, ERA i had classic
matchup with a lot of guys as you don't, know
the small forward.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
In the two guard.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Position, yeah then were the, spots and every now and
then you get a big guy in the. Middle BUT
i mean every, night if it Wasn't Larry, bird it
Was Bernard king Or Marcus, Johnson.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
Kelly. TREPUKA i mean it was every, night it was.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Somebody different who were probably gonna give you twenty or
thirty that. Night but it wasn't just at that spot
and the two, guards you know that The drexlers and
and some of the other guys That Eddie. Johnson you,
know every night it was. Somebody so you my, era
my era of, BASKETBALL i feel like was probably one
(29:37):
of the most exciting periods for basketball.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
History who are you just named a lot of guys
like who was some of those matchup that you just
like enjoyed going. Against well you knew whether it's because
like you had the advantage or you knew it was
gonna be a tough, Night like what was just some
of the guys that you look for at to going
against for whatever.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Reasons, WELL i enjoyed playing every, night you, KNOW i
tell you the NIGHTS i didn't enjoy WHEN i had
to play somebody Like Bernard king.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Or Dennis. Rodman, yeah, yeah you know those were the true.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Guys like, Offensively Bernard king was just a little beast
because he was like a thundering herd coming down on the.
Wing and Then Dennis, RODMAN i WAS i was a.
RUNNER i would run out run everybody and get to my.
SPOT i couldn't Lose Dennis. Rodney he was almost it
was like a disease. Alone but it was all over,
(30:34):
me and you, KNOW i had to figure out a
way to score AND i didn't have, to you, know
guard him that.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
Much on our.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Offense but you, know he was looking to block my.
Shot he was getting, rebounds he was getting put. Backs
he was just a great, player.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Just pesky and. Uh in eighty, five y'all went to
The Western Conference. Finals did you feel like y'all could
have won a championship with that?
Speaker 2 (30:58):
TEAM i felt like we could. Have you, know we
played in The lakers that year in The Western Conference.
Finals we'd go into The Great Western form and they
just killed us the first. Game second, game we beat.
Them you, Know that's that's how it happens in the.
Playoffs sometimes you get beat. Back second, game the other
team comes. Back we go back To. Denver it was
(31:20):
two two one one. Back then we go back To
denver and in the first, Quarter i'm going. Up you
know how you get, there your, hands your your fingers
taped for that ligament right there when you have that
that damage There AND i had.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
Both of my thumbs taped and go for a.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Rebound kareem gets the rebound and he comes down and
he does this AND i had my hands up and
his elbow hit me right, here AND i broke my.
Thumb so that was the end of our. Playoffs you.
Speaker 5 (32:00):
The franchised all time lead to score an average and
twenty five point. Nine like if that's something like when
you got done that you think will still be surviving
this LONG i did.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
NOT i did, not and it won't survive much. Longer,
Yeah junker making a.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Sense he's got my assists all time assists, record and
you know he's slowly Getting it'll be the all time leading,
scorer no doubt about.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
It when you look at, him what do you think
A jokers? Game how much?
Speaker 5 (32:32):
Appreciation because he's kind of like a throwback in this
league where you got all of this stuff going. On
he kind of the big man who's STILL i, mean
even though it's not back to the basketball it used to,
be he's still more retro than a lot of the,
guys these young.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Guys now he's, retro but he's also.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
He's also forging his own style in his own game
to where other players are gonna. Have you, know, guys
when when when? Safe when When michael was, playing guys
wanted to be Like. Mike they wanted to dump and
shoot jump. Shots and do all the Things mike, Did
and they're probably guys that aren't as agile or. Quick
(33:18):
they see The joker and, SAY i.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
Want to be like The.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Joker, yeah he uses his body so. Well he's got
all kinds of little. Shots he seized the floor so.
Well it's almost like he's got eyes in the back
of his. Head but if you notice when he's playing
how well he uses the girth of his. Body he'll
get you down low and he'll throw a little hook
shot from, here but his wide body has got you over,
(33:44):
here so you're not going to get to the block.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
The shot that's.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Right and then when he's, outside he's he's able to
drive to the basket and back you down and shoot
the three or whatever he needs to. Do but you,
know if you leave, him if you come, doubling he's
gonna find your. Man so he's a throwback and a new.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Age how was it when you when they won a,
championship When denver won a? Championship, finally how did you
feel about?
Speaker 2 (34:13):
THAT i felt great about. It you, know it was
something that we wanted to see the team do as a.
Franchise it's like we could never get. There, yeah and you,
know Coach malone and his, guys they did a great
job of bringing it all together and you.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Know getting.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
It you, know it's all the little. Pieces you look
at the pieces that they. Had they had the right.
Pieces it wasn't Just joker or it Was Maria, acp
it Was. Gordon you, know they all had a different,
part a different role to, play and they played their
role as.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Well they definitely did thirty one franchise, records all time.
Records when you, retired did you you feel.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
All work that you put in to have thirty?
Speaker 4 (35:02):
One?
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Franchever did you feel all the work once you? Retired
like man thirty?
Speaker 3 (35:06):
One like that's.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Unheard ONCE i retired AND i was done with the,
GAME i didn't really think about it as. Much AND
i MEAN i didn't know all the different little things that.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
They kept tabs, on.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
RIGHT i, MEAN i knew THAT i was a scorer
and a rebounder and sometimes shot, blocker BUT i WAS
i prided myself more.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
On my passing, game you, know being able to pass the.
Speaker 5 (35:30):
Ball how did it feel when you got to call
that they were going to retire In? Jersey out there In?
Denver the number two was going up to the. Rafters
that was an awesome. Feeling you, know it's. Everlasting it's
no one.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Unless they changed the, rules that number two will be
there in the rafters for.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
Whatever. Yeah and you KNOW i changed my number from.
COLLEGE i was twenty two in. College.
Speaker 5 (35:54):
Yeah were you, aware like so when we came, out,
right when we came to league two thousand and early two,
thousands it.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Was like the huge bust of the retro.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
Jerseys were you aware that your jersey was one of
the dopest and like one.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Of the most elite throwback jerseys.
Speaker 5 (36:12):
That that was going, around that that blue number two
with the, checker you, know The Denver, like were you
aware like how popular that jersey became during the retro.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Time it was definitely one of the top. Jerseys, yeah you,
KNOW i didn't.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
KNOW i didn't understand what that meant until the licensing.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
Checks, tey there you.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Go, YEAH i definitely had your, jersey, man that was
like one of the dopest jersey with with the colors on, it,
uh the white one and the blue, one like was
just just crazy out. Here when the retros start hitting
in early you, know.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
You know who who really made it?
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Popular alan Iverson. Y, yep he came To denver and
he wore that he kept that jersey did it was,
retired but he would you, know he liked that.
Speaker 5 (37:12):
Jersey so he was wearing the. Redro he was the
he was the you, know he was wearing the Red
HROs like we. Was he was one of the ones
we try to just.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Like most, definitely most, DEFINITELY i, Know, jen your jersey.
Retired but how was your family like you see in your,
family witness like your your history of what you accomplished
at that, Moment, well.
Speaker 4 (37:36):
It was it was early in my.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Career my mom got to witness me as a as
a college player and SOME nba player SOME nba time
and you, know to make her. Proud it was just
an awesome feeling for. Me and to be able to
and you don't, know you guys probably can relate to
wanting to bring your fan uh and helped them as
(38:03):
much as you. Can and being able to do something
for my mom that made her feel special was probably
the highlight of my.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
Career second and, NONE i know.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
That, yeah getting inducted to The Basketball hall Of FAME
us as, players everybody want to get inducted and want
to get that jacket and want to get that. Statue
that's like the icing on the, Cakes like it's like
putting a cherry on top it.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
Is to get that phone.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Call WHAT i don't know if it was a phone
call explaining us how did you find out that you
was you made The hall Of?
Speaker 4 (38:40):
Fame it was a phone, call.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
OKAY i got a phone call from the at that,
time whoever the head of The hall Of fame, was
and said THAT i had been. Selected and you, know
it was it was hard for me to, believe you, know.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
To be in the same.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Space for The Wilt chamberlains And Bill russell's And reservings
and all those great basketball players that came before.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
Me he was just an honor and awesome feeling for.
Me it's a QUESTION i like to.
Speaker 5 (39:15):
Ask SO i know it's you, know a little different
time as far as the, money but like you still
when you made the pro you ran into more money
than you had ever seen at that.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Point oh, man that that that fifty thousand was a lot.
Speaker 5 (39:29):
Of money that you, Know so this is WHAT i
want to know with that fifty, THOUSANDS i don't want to.
Know you, know everybody take care of their mom or they.
FAMILY i want to know what did Og Alix english
do with when you got that money just to treat
yourself and they got to be nothing, like what was
the craziest thing you did to treat yourself when you
got the?
Speaker 4 (39:47):
BAG i bought me A volkswagen van Man, o, man
tell me about the, man tell me about.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
IT i had A volkswagen camper that Would it was
orange and and you, know you could drive it and
you could use it as an apartment if you went.
Speaker 5 (40:03):
Out, okay so you had. Them they had the sleeper
in and, everything.
Speaker 4 (40:07):
And the sleeper in. It that was for. Me that
was my.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Highlight and then WHEN i made the team the second,
YEAR i got a chance to trade in and get
me a new.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
CAR i.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
THOUGHT i was, thinking you're finna say a seventy Six
Grandville pontiac.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
Or a SEVENTIES i could.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Afford you gotta start, one you gotta bench, one you
gotta trade, one and you gotta cut.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
One.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Dang so it's four guys you gotta start bench trade
to CUT. U the first guy Is Julius, irvin DOCTOR.
J the second guy Is George Gervin. Iceman the third
guys but No. King the fourth guy Is Larry. Bird
oh all small? Fourwards who would you? Start who would you?
(41:07):
Bench who would you? Trade who would you just?
Speaker 4 (41:10):
Them? One? Yeah if you only pick, one the only pick?
One Probably Larry.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
Bird Larry, bird.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
Very, Legend larry.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Legend they don't Give larry enough.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
Credit no. MORE i don't know What larry. Was the
one True larry was?
Speaker 1 (41:30):
True so you h you played With, milwaukee you played
with The, pacers you played With. Denver you had a
lot of teammates over your. Career if you had to
pick four teammates that you played with to make your ultimate,
five all of them in their, prime all of them
at their best with, you who would make your ultimate five?
Speaker 3 (41:52):
Roster any of your teammates from.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
The Faver, Oh Kicky vanderway, okay and Probably Dan. Isle,
okay that's three and. More tr?
Speaker 3 (42:15):
Done nice five right there?
Speaker 4 (42:18):
Now?
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Yeah nice. Five let me ask you about the today's.
Game you've seen the game from the the seventies and
how it, evolved how the rules, change how different players.
Play you might, feel like, me the traveling and the
carrying is getting out of. Hand but outside of, that
how do you feel about today's? Game and where THE
(42:42):
nba has got.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
TO i, think, uh you, know for a, MINUTE i was,
concerned But i've seen some of the young talent now
And i'm not as concerned as A there's.
Speaker 4 (42:56):
A nice bevy of young talent that's come into the.
League the only Thing i've.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Been not disappointed, with BUT i would like to see
him do less of his shoot to three.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
Pointer always be looking for the three point.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Shot me, too raise me.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Too maybe that's Because i'm a mid range kind of,
guy BUT i think the beauty of the game is
between the three point line in the.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
Basket and you, know.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
There are some guys that shoot shoot the three and
it's a beautiful, shot BUT i think they rely on
it too much.
Speaker 4 (43:28):
Now AND i guess that's the. Analytics that's all we
didn't have to deal.
Speaker 5 (43:32):
With tell me, this you being, like when you look
at a guy Like Kevin, durant how much do you
appreciate his. Game he's a guy who fully embraces the
mid range and like he's like a.
Speaker 4 (43:44):
Hooper he's a.
Speaker 5 (43:45):
Purist he wants to be a perfect, player like a
fifty forty ninety. Guy he wants to take be as
efficient as. Possible how you feel about his game and
where he's been able to evolve.
Speaker 4 (43:55):
Too he's one of my favorite. PLAYERS i like what
he does on the.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Floor you, know he didn't have to make a big you,
know hullabaloo about making a jump.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
Shot he shoots the shot and he goes back down
the court and played.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Defense, yeah you, know he's mid, range like you, say
but he also comes through with big. Moments you, KNOW
i remember him being in The Olympic games and.
Speaker 4 (44:21):
Dot Kevin. Durant who knows where we would have. Gone, yeah,
YEAH i like his.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Game, yeah you've seen The All star game format this
year and you played in the Traditional All star game. Format,
yes what do you think is the problem with The
All Star?
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Game the problem is when we played in the game was,
like you, know we're. Playing we played with pride because
we didn't want to, lose but we also played because.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
We weren't making that much.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Money you, know we got about five thousand dollars for
winning or ten thousand for, winning five thousand if you.
Speaker 4 (45:03):
Lost, yeah and you know that was that was a
part of.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
It but it was more about the pride of the,
game and it was a real. Game it wasn't no.
Gimmicks it was, Like, okay we are The, east you
are The. West let's see who's got the. Toughest and
we came out and we.
Speaker 5 (45:22):
Hooped, listen that's the WAY i think it should. Be just, like,
hey we want to, play we want to Be we
want to show y'all better than you because it's a
game to be. Played if it's a game to be,
played we're gonna show y'all, up and y'all ain't gonna
show us. Up it's like going back to the, playground you.
Know it's, Like, okay let's see what you. Got so
we like you. OGEE i, MEAN i like to say
(45:44):
appreciated because you clearly open these doors for. Us because
me and D miles have had the opportunity to be
in a couple of movies as little extras. Actives, great
so tell us about your experience getting to be in
some of the. Movies you Was the And eddie With
Whoopee Goldberg Amazing. Great it's just some of the things
that you got a chance to.
Speaker 4 (46:02):
Do for, me.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
Playing The Amazing grace was probably one of the highlights
of my career BECAUSE i felt like the character was.
Speaker 4 (46:10):
Me, yeah it.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Was it was a player that decided to give up
basketball to make the world better and that's what he.
Speaker 4 (46:23):
Did AND i enjoyed that.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
CHARACTER i enjoyed you, Know Jamie Lee curtis And Greg
RePEc and all the people that worked with.
Speaker 4 (46:31):
Me it was a lot of.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Fun, yeah it's some great basketball players come out Of South.
Carolina can you speak on some of the players like the,
kg's The Ray, allen's The jermaine, O'Neills John, morant like
these guys who you know come after You Gg, jackson
these guys who come after The, midican a lot of
(46:54):
guys to keep the tradition going and to Keep South
carolina real of been in the league and and and
repping your.
Speaker 3 (47:02):
State uh's speak on some of them guys for you.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Know it's it's great to see some of the players
that have come out of the state that and then
they weren't just, players they were very good, players you,
Know xavier, McDaniel jermaine, O'Neill Kevin, garnett Now Ray allen
And John, morant and then you've Got Tyrone.
Speaker 4 (47:29):
Corbin. Yeah uh And middleton who.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Plays with played with The milwaukee and a lot of
other people THAT i don't even can't even name that's
come out of the, State Larry.
Speaker 4 (47:42):
Nance it's been just a whole bunch of.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Guys and then now we've got women players that are
just as Except.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Yeah, yeah speaking of, women let's talk about like how
great of a thing that don.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
Is doing with the women's game.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
Cocks, no nothing against the, men but the women game,
cocks and how she's bringing so much energy to the university.
Speaker 4 (48:09):
And the state and the. State you know What i'm.
Saying she.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Is she's a one of a, kind exceptional. Coach she
doesn't been to rhetoric from the. Outside, yeah he. Coaches
she's been here a lot of, years and young ladies
like to play for you. Know She she's benefited from
the talent in the state as well with Our Asian
(48:33):
Asian wilson and now you have my laser field full
while a And Jorce edwards who are on the team,
now they are.
Speaker 4 (48:41):
Exceptional they're going to be exceptional players in the league as. Well.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Yeah But dawn is the is the chef that makes
the dish, work make it.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
Good, yeah that's, dope that's. Dope, no, man we appreciate,
you olg. Man this was. Awesome you know What i'm.
Speaker 5 (48:59):
Saying we all he's enjoy getting to get with you,
guys the ogs like like he, said you the, guys our,
uncles our pops in and our OG's talk. About and
so whenever we really get to get, down we feel
like we're getting the history lesson of the.
Speaker 4 (49:11):
Game. Man so we.
Speaker 5 (49:12):
Really appreciate you taking out the time and coming on
and chopping.
Speaker 4 (49:15):
It up with.
Speaker 5 (49:15):
It so g, everybody this is Being Alex, english one
of the best players in NB a.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
History thank, you and just to say you, GUYS i
got a chance to watch you all play as, well
AND i enjoyed watching you, all so thank.
Speaker 4 (49:31):
You you will be og like?
Speaker 3 (49:34):
Me they doing? Them, now how you gonna how you
get used to?
Speaker 4 (49:37):
It BECAUSE i can't get used to? It what?
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Else, nothing but it's just take it and enjoy it
and love it and embrace, it and uh just teach
them the right way to do.
Speaker 4 (49:52):
It that's, right and thank? You thanks. Again all, right, guys.
Speaker 7 (50:01):
You want to thank y'all for you're continued supporter of
The knuckleheads. Podcast be sure to give us two taps
by writing a review and rating five stars wherever you
get your podcasts and make sure to hit that subscribe
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Speaker 4 (50:16):
Page follow us on.
Speaker 5 (50:17):
Social media At knuckleheads podcast ENJOIN o Knucklehead facebook group
for exclusive. Content thanks again and all of our guests and.
Fans this wouldn't be possible without.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
Y'all The Players tribute dot com
First of all, thank you. It's honor and pleasure to
have you on the show. My uncle used to talk
about you all the time. I think he was like
your biggest fan. Always used to tell me about you.
But we really appreciate you coming on the show and
spend your time with us.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Well, it's my pleasure. Good afternoon, and I'm happy to
do this.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
First question is when you first got to the league,
who's the first person to bust your ass?
Speaker 4 (00:30):
First person? Uh?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Man, that's that's a tough one because I came off
the bench when I.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
First got to the league.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I would say my toughest the toughest player that I
had to guard was the guy that played on my team.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
The name was Bobby Dandridge.
Speaker 5 (00:49):
Okay, yeah, yo, yo yo. We live on location me
and the blackest one man. We got one of the
best players of all time with us today. Were very
privileged to have our og an eight time NBA All Star,
three times All NBA Second Team and he's also in
(01:11):
the National Basketball Hall of Fame. His jersey Haynes in
the Denver Arena we got missed at alex English in
the building.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
We appreciate you pulling up og. All right, thank you guys,
it's good to be.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Here, yes, sir, South Carolina. How was it growing up
(01:44):
in that time in South Carolina? And what made you
pick up the basketball? And who put the basketball in
your hand?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Growing up in Columbia, South Carolina back in the sixties
was not easy, very segregated. Grew up in of course,
all black neighborhood and very poor. I grew up in
a household of thirteen brothers, sisters, and cousins, three roomhouse.
And for me, it was fun, you know, growing up
in Columbia, even though you know, we had the segregation
(02:17):
and we had the racism that was strong back then.
Being a young kid, you didn't pay as much attention
to it. You know, when you're young, you played whatever
sport is in season. So we played basketball, we played baseball,
we played football, whatever was in season we played. And
(02:38):
I took a liking to football, and I was I
played defensive end, and I got away from football on
my first my first, my first game, they swept my
inn and swept me away, and that was in.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
I know.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
My basketball coach said, you you should just stay with
this game, and so I did.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
What gave you the love for basketball and who taught
you like the fundamentals of basketball.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
You know, as you all know, playing the game of basketball,
there is no two things that are the same every time,
so you know, two players are the same, It's all different.
And what I loved about it was the creativity. And
to me, it was my dance, it was my ballet,
(03:34):
you know, my hip hop. Whatever I did on the
basketball court was my way of expressing myself and nobody
else could do it. I mean, like you guys have
your own styff. So I learned the way I did
learn to play and I enjoyed it. You know, I
love art, loved dance, and to be able to do
(03:57):
it every night was like a lot of fun for me.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
On all the things that you can add.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
As you know, when you work on your game in
the summertime, you know, to get better, you start doing
little things to make the game different and to make
that better for you.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
At what age would you say that you started to
see like I'm pretty good at basketball, like a little
bit better than the rest of the guys around me.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
It took I'd say my ninth grade year, you know,
my eighth grade year I played for my junior high
school team and never got a chance to play. You know,
I was growing so fast, and I was kind of awkward,
and you know, the coach just didn't see anything, any.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Kind of talent in me.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
But I started growing and between my eighth and ninth
grade years, I grew four inches, so I went from
six one to six four, and you know, you know,
being a taller player, this coach said, well, we might
as well try and find something in it. But during
that summer between eighth and ninth grade, I started really
enjoying the game and working on the game, and I
(05:01):
got better during that period.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
When did you to me, like in today's game, I
feel like the best players are the players who.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Have a mill range game.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
You're the best mill range guy out there. When you
was coming up, what made you concentrate and style your
game in a mid range game like the fifteen to
fourteen thirteen footers.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Well, that's all we had. We didn't have the three
point line when I was growing up. You know, we
had to work well, if you visualize the three point line, now,
from that three point line to the basket was our
work area.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
Yea, So we had to be able to.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Score in that area, and for me, it was a
matter of playing an off balance game and you know,
catching a guy when he's in his defensive stands and
not expecting you to shoot. Shooting or running one hander.
You know that it was long and lanky, but wasn't
that strong. Wasn't and you couldn't jump so high. But
(06:06):
I had to have other little twos to make my
game work, and I added those little things.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
Every summer. I would, you know, work.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
On a running one hand or work on an off
balance running one hander, you know. But the thing that
I would say made my game effective was that it
was mid range. But I always knew to follow, you know,
the basic stuff that we all learned.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Follow the shots, get the putbacks.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
You know it's going to go to the other side
of the basket if it goes off. So all those
little things that I learned when I was growing up
were things that helped me when I got to be
an NBA player.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah, I was telling these kids all the time, like,
if you master the fundamentals, then you can start adding
all your flash and all the other stuff that you
want to work on. But you know, a lot of
these kids want to skip the fundamentals and go straight
to the behind the backs and all that stuff.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
And to the three point line, yea.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
And to the three three point lily to that.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
They don't know that the beauty of the game is
between the three point line and the basket. That's where
you see all the creativity. You can catch the ball
and shoot it. But to get to that basket and score,
you gotta be able to maneuver.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
You gotta go through pitch screens, physical work, all that.
Like you said, you gotta be able to dance, you
got you gotta be able to dance.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Growing up in South Carolina in high school, was y'all
limited to playing all black schools?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Did y'all play like white schools in high school?
Speaker 4 (07:34):
And how was my first year? Well, my junior high
school years.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
They desegregated the South, so I went to a mixed school.
And you know, all all the black schools in the
white schools mixed. So it wasn't all black school It
was all mixed, so I got to play with, you know,
different people.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Was that like a culture shock for you?
Speaker 5 (07:58):
Like you're saying, you're coming from all black neighborhood, growing
up around all blacks and being that happens and then
all of a sudden, you were in school with white
kids and teachers and stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
How was that adjustment? It was?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
It was, but as being a young player, that happened
when I was in the seventh grade. So being in
the seventh grade and mixing with other people.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
It was, you know, you were still young.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
And you you didn't really pay as much attention to
the segregation because this was the beginning of the big experiment.
We're going to bring them all together, and they brought
us all together, and you you know, the white kids
were they were fine.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, averaging thirty one as a junior like run that
season off to it because in ninth grade you feel
like you were kind of better than the other kids.
And then to get to the point to average thirty one,
everybody know thirty points is the is the hive thirty
points score?
Speaker 3 (09:00):
You want to guy, you know, the average thirty one
year junior.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Year in high school? Like, explain that season for us?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Well, it was just what I said, It was just
simple stuff.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
It was shooting good. I had a good team too.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
I had good teammates, and I knew what my role
was and my role was a dude, was the block shots, rebound,
and play defense. And that's what I did. But my
team needed me to score more, and I scored more
by doing little things like putting the ball back up
after it came off the rim, getting layups. And I
(09:38):
didn't really develop a jump shot, a mid range jump
shot until I got to my freshman year in college.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
When you came out of high school, was it like,
what was the process of like college? Just looking at you,
was it a bunch of colleges?
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Was it a few?
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Or could you almost went somewhere else outside of South Carolina?
Speaker 4 (10:04):
Yeah? You know.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Back then, you know, you would get a letter from
a school and they would tell you that they're interested
in you, and you know, you just sift through them
and they invite you to come visit. And I got
a chance to go visit some schools, and I felt
like I could have a better effect on my community
by staying in South Carolina. I'm a big community guy.
(10:28):
During that period of time, African Americans didn't want to
come to the University of South Carolina because they felt
that if they came to University of South Carolina, they
were going to get buried on the bench. And my
thing with my coach was to change that. So when
I came, you know, I was not going to be
denied playing time after I got here, and Columbia was
(10:52):
a hot bed for basketball time. After I came, we
had three more guys from the Columbia area decided to
come and play, and that's when the school really became
more integrated basketball wise. It you know, it was a
big thing for me to come and stay home and
be a part of the community.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
I'm a big.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
I believe in trying to advance the African American situation
in this country, and even when I was young, that
was big and important to me. So I felt that
if I stayed, I would be a magnet for others
to come.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
And it worked.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Yeah, you say, you start shooting jump shots your freshman years.
What coach or who kind of taught you to like,
you need to add this mid range jump shot to
your game. You need to start shooting more jumpers. And
did they teach you like with form or you was
a natural guy that had natural form.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I'm gonna tell you the story I played my junior
year in high school. I played against a guy who
was a good friend of mine now was a great
basketball player, from the upstate of South Carolina. His thing
was Clyde Maids, and we played them for the championship
and he kept blocking my shot. You know, I felt
(12:16):
like we lost the game because I couldn't score and
my team depended on me. So during that summer, I
got in the gym and I said, what can I
do to make it more difficult for people to block
my shots? And I realized that if I could jump
as high as I could and extend my arm as
(12:38):
high as I could and release at the tip, it
would be more difficult. So that's what I worked on
all summer, and when I got to college, I was
better at it. You know, I didn't have people blocking
my shot as easily. And as you get older and
you start working on your game, you perfected different things
about your game as you get older. So I got
(12:59):
better with the men range jump shot, turned around jump
shot as I got older, and as I played more.
Speaker 5 (13:05):
You said that when you got there, you know, you
wanted to change how everybody looked at going to South
Carolina and you weren't.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Gonna be denied.
Speaker 5 (13:13):
Was that part of you saying that you was going
to start and play in every single game and never
missed a game. Like, dude, like, when you was doing it,
did you realize how rare that would become?
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Well? I realized what I could do.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
And when I got to South Carolina, there was only
one African American that had played there, and he was
my roommate.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
He didn't get to play much. But I was different.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
I was six', eight and even THOUGH i was, SLIM
i was more of an agile. PLAYER i run ran the,
FLOOR i rebounded block. SHOTS i did those kinds of.
Things and you, know my freshman year coming To South,
carolina we had the number one class out of college coming.
(14:01):
HERE i MEAN i had people Like Mike dunlevy and
other guys that played with. Me AND i felt, like,
HEY i came BECAUSE i felt LIKE i could, Play
and you're, RIGHT i was not gonna be.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Denied playing In South.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Carolina after your four years and you have the scoring,
record the all time scoring, record all time rebounding, record
how did you feel to accomplish that at a university
coming from where you came, from to the point where
like you're the all time leading, scorer you're the all
(14:40):
time leading.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Rebounder, well for, me, Well i'm not the all time leading.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Scorer now a guy by the name of bj McKie
has surpassed me as far.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
As At university Of South.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Carolina but you know WHAT i think about WHAT i
did being able to play as a freshman WHEN i came,
out because BEFORE i came, out freshmen couldn't.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Play freshmen were they had another another squad for.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Freshmen but WHEN i came, out they had made it
so that freshman could play AND i got a chance to.
Play SO i THINK i was blessed enough to take
advantage of.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
That when you decided to go to the, draft explain
the process of like how many teams you worked out.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
For pre draft? Process you, Guys you guys have a different.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Perspective WHEN i came out as a second round, pick
they called me on the phone and Said Milwaukee bucks
have drafted.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
You that was. It that was.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
It it was no working out for. Nobody you just.
Reported you reported the training camp in the, fall and
you tried to make the.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Team so what was what was that?
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Like did you get your family together and y'all set
by the phone waiting to see if you're gonna get
one that it was just like you going by your
day and then out the blue day CAME, o.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah i'm, like you, know it was the draft, day
and you, KNOW i knew it was draft day AND
i was HOPING i was gonna get. Drafted and then
my coach called me and, said, yeah you got drafted
in the second.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
ROUND i, was, oh, great not knowing.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Exactly what that, meant but he looked me up with
one of his friends who was an attorney to be my,
agent and that's HOW i got.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
Started so, basically it was like they basically watched our,
games watched the games and then, decided like on draft,
day who they were gonna.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Take and then you guys found out by phone. CALL
i was no.
Speaker 5 (16:35):
Bringing guys in working. Out it was just we watched
them and this is what we want to take. It
when it comes out of, time we just gonna call
them and say you drafted.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
You, yeah nothing like what you all. Did it was
just a phone. Call you got. Drafted we drafted you
in the second. Round and you, KNOW i got my first.
YEAR i got my bonus for signing with The Milwaukee.
Bucks it was ten thousand dollars and my first year
was THAT i Made IF i made the, TEAM i
(17:03):
would get fifty, Thousand so my total compensation that year
was sixty thousand off and there was no guarantee for
the second. Year but it was a two year, deal
so the second YEAR i would go up to sixty.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Thousand IF i made the. Team that was.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
It so it wasn't you, know that wasn't that umbre
that parachute to, Say, okay IF i signed and don't
make the, Team i'm gonna still get paid Because i've
got a guaranteed. CONTRACT i had to go out and
work my tail off each.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Year, sure, sure but what was your Mental like you're
coming from playing every single game in, college you, know
all time leading, score all time leading, rebound to get
into the highest league that's out there and you get limited.
Minutes so how did you just mentally stay focused on
(17:56):
Like i'm gonna stick with. It CAUSE i, heard like
back in the, day guys playing in THE nba and
they still had other jobs and stuff or other things
that they was, doing and the pros some guys.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
DID i was blessed to go to a good squad
and you, KNOW i had mentors that were that were. Strong,
uh that guy who beat me out in high school
was also playing for The Milwaukee bucks WHEN i got,
there and we were fighting for the same, position and
(18:27):
he ended up getting cut AND i got to. Stay
but my mentors at that time were people Like Bob
dandridge and the Great Junior bridgeman And Dave. Myers they
were all, there SO i got to learn from from
good quality.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
People so it was it was a lot easier for.
Me BUT i.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
WORKED i worked my tail, off you. KNOW i, Said
i'm not going to be. Denied i'm going to make this.
Team SO i did everything THAT i needed to do
and had a good preseason and almost got cut and
the owner Of Wayne hembry called me down and, said,
hey you, know we called you. Down we want to cut,
(19:07):
you we want to release, you but we feel you're too.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Valuable we're going to keep. You SO i was out
the door.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
And back in the door in one, day and that
was the beginning of my.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
Career, yeah you brought Up Junior, bridgeman as you know
obviously he's recently.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Passed can you talk about how he was as a
mentor for.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
YOU i, mean He i'm like a mentor to so
many of the younger guys and the guys in the
current generation for everything he's accomplished and. Did but talk
about him in those days being your, mentor well he.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Was he was a.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Friend he Was he played the same POSITION i. Played
he played a small, forward two. GUARD i played small.
Forward but he was just one of the best human
beings overall THAT i have ever. Met and even to
the day he, DIED i would SAY i have not
met a better human being Than Junior. Bridgeman you, know
(20:03):
we played together for a couple of. Years we stayed.
FRIENDS i Left milwaukee and he stayed. THERE i was
A wendy's franchise as. Well oh, okay and he is
the one that got me involved In.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Wendy's that's.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Awesome he was a mentor and just a great, friend
great human being WHO i love and respect and will miss.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Dearly so you go to The.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Pacers you wind up going to The Indiana, pacers and
you start. Playing, now you start, playing you start your first,
year you average sixteen eight and three on fifty percent.
Shooting you, know really watching a lot of the games
the first two, years and then in second two years
you actually get an opportunity to get out there and.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Play of what you.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Learn how was it to start playing minutes and trying
to put your feet in the, ground and it was.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Fun it was it was. Great. UH i put the work,
in you, know off, SEASON i would really get to
the gym AND i would work, out and after a
few YEARS i got to play in the summer. LEAGUE
i had people Like Tyrone, Corbin xavier. McDaniel they were
the young players behind me THAT i got to play,
(21:12):
against and you, know we'd go in the gym and
we'd have some. Battles SO i got to work with
them and learn from. THEM i felt That indiana was
going to be a place THAT i could get. BETTER
i got a chance to start my first, year and
that was good for. ME i had never started in THE,
(21:35):
nba so it was good AND i got a chance
to kind, of you, know learn the lay of the.
Land i'd got an opportunity learning From Junior bridgeman And
Bobby dandridge WHEN i was In, milwaukee some of the
two they were two of the best moll forwards around
at that. Time so WHEN i got To, INDIANA i
got a chance to expound upon the stuff That i'd
(21:57):
learned from.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
Them ye second, year you went up to twenty one
point nine seven and seven point, seven and.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Like how was that to?
Speaker 5 (22:05):
Feel like we all know we both were in a
position to our first couple of years we didn't get to,
Play but then once you started to get out, There,
like how did your confidence go once you, know saw
that you were going number, one get a chance to
be out, There but then you saw also that the
success was.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Coming you, know your game was getting your game.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Off it was, fun you, know ONCE i got a
chance to, START i enjoyed, that BUT i wanted to
do WHAT i needed to do for the team to,
win because the next year they traded and Brought Mickey
johnson in and they needed scoring off the. Bench show
(22:42):
they Made mickey the starter and that came off the
bench as the sixth, man and you, know we were
more successful.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Then getting traded To.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Denver you made your First All Star, game and one
of the things that you always want to be respected
by your pero in this league to show that you're
like you're you can play in this league and you
won the best players in the. League how was your
First All Star game appearance and what it was like
when you found out that you made The All star.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
Team of, COURSE i was. ELATED i was just so
excited and over the.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Moon and when we got there to play that, GAME
i don't know IF i got to play that, much
but just being in the whole atmosphere of you, know
being out there being considered one of the. Best you,
know the people were Like Julius irving And Magic, Johnson Larry,
bird you, know guys like that were on the, squad you,
(23:40):
know some of the all time. Greats so it was
it was an honor for, me AND i KNEW i
had put the work, in SO i felt LIKE i
was supposed to be.
Speaker 5 (23:50):
There what was it like in practice for you, guys
because like me and D, miles we had a chance
to work With keiki vand the way we know he
like The Triple.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
Threat got out of the.
Speaker 5 (24:02):
World, like what was it like to be in practice
because like we know the history of both of you guys.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Putting up forties and fifties and.
Speaker 5 (24:10):
Stuff, like what was it like when you first got
there you got a chance to start practicing With Key
Ky vanderway And David thompson And Dan, Issel but like
Mainly Key ky in That Triple, threat what was did
he help you with the mid range? Game just being
in there going against him and seeing some of the
things he was.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Doing What kiki did, was you, know we were both
the same, size and he ended up playing the power
forward if there was a power, forward AND i was
a lot more, slight so he took the brunt of
the of the. Defense but he also had the slower,
player the bigger slow. Player, yeah and as you, know
(24:50):
his first step was just off the.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Chain he would he would rock him.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Going not only would he shoot a jump, chot he
would dunk on him left alright. Hand you, KNOW i
always felt That kiki didn't get what he deserved is
for his, accolades because he was a great. Player if
you backed off of, him he was gonna hit that jump.
Shot you got up on, him he was gonna triple
threat you and go around, you and he could. Rebound
(25:17):
he had really big. Hands, Yeah so he was really
good AND i enjoyed playing with. Him that's WHY i
think when we, played both of us played the small
forward And dan this was the.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
Middle people have difficult time guarding us every.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Night LIKE i was, saying my uncle used to always
rave about, you and to the point that he used to,
say you was the greatest score in the.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Eighties he was the best score in the.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Eighties and it made me do my homework Because i'm
big on history and big on trying to know who
came before me SO i can move. FORWARD i was
always big on. History but you're one of the most
underrated guys. Ever you, know in the, eighties they say
a lot of names that was more.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Popular you, know The, iceman's the Doctor, j's the you,
know you can name so.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Many do you feel like you're one of the most
underrated players ever IN nba?
Speaker 4 (26:20):
HISTORY i, KNOW i. Am you, KNOW i.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Know what my work, is AND i KNOW i look
at my body of work AND i put it up against,
anybody and for, me it was an insult not to
be one of the top fifty. Players and THEN i, said,
okay well maybe the top seventy. Five and it's still
not make it at the top seventy.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
Five you, know it was an. Insult BUT i know
that people that know the.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Game know my, work AND i AM i can be
okay with.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
IT i know WHAT i.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Did, yeah my uncle used to make me study the
game when it came to you and what you did
on the block and what you did in the mirror,
range especially me being a Small. FORD i, know we
grew up In, illinois so you, know we all wanted
to be Like, mike but my game kind of veeried
a little bit towards pipping a little more than Than
(27:17):
Michael jordan's when you scored fifty.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Four tell us about that night fifty.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Four, well And i'm sure both of you all have
probably had that night, too where.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Everything just was.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Going, yeah you, Know i've had a few games like,
that but you, know that, night it was just like
ALL i had to do was just throw it up
there and it was going to go in the.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
Basket but it was a.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Feeling it's a feeling that you have that you can't
describe to anybody else.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
Exactly you know what it.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Is it's that, feeling and people who've had that feeling
they know What too're just in, it just in.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
It people ask you what she ate or whatever's.
Speaker 5 (28:03):
Going, yeah Liked mile said about you being, underrated and
you spoke on it.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
Too like we Had James burthy on here on.
Speaker 5 (28:10):
The, show and when we asked him who was the
first person to bust his, ass your.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Name was the first name out of his.
Speaker 5 (28:16):
Mouth just you know What i'm, saying just about how
you was able, to you, know shoot the, ball and
like how you said you worked on being able to
shoot and get your shot. Off he was like he
was able to get to the. Spots he had a
great triple threat. Game being able to just do what
he wanted with me was like he had my head,
spinning you. Know he being A North carolina, guy he
was somebody that you, know knew who you, were but
(28:36):
he was, like, yeah no. Doubt he was the one
who gave me the first buckets WHEN i got in the.
League WHO i really couldn't do nothing.
Speaker 6 (28:43):
With, yeah we had we had some classic matchup Jeans
worthy AND, I but during my, ERA i had classic
matchup with a lot of guys as you don't, know
the small forward.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
In the two guard.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Position, yeah then were the, spots and every now and
then you get a big guy in the. Middle BUT
i mean every, night if it Wasn't Larry, bird it
Was Bernard king Or Marcus, Johnson.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
Kelly. TREPUKA i mean it was every, night it was.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Somebody different who were probably gonna give you twenty or
thirty that. Night but it wasn't just at that spot
and the two, guards you know that The drexlers and
and some of the other guys That Eddie. Johnson you,
know every night it was. Somebody so you my, era
my era of, BASKETBALL i feel like was probably one
(29:37):
of the most exciting periods for basketball.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
History who are you just named a lot of guys
like who was some of those matchup that you just
like enjoyed going. Against well you knew whether it's because
like you had the advantage or you knew it was
gonna be a tough, Night like what was just some
of the guys that you look for at to going
against for whatever.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Reasons, WELL i enjoyed playing every, night you, KNOW i
tell you the NIGHTS i didn't enjoy WHEN i had
to play somebody Like Bernard king.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Or Dennis. Rodman, yeah, yeah you know those were the true.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Guys like, Offensively Bernard king was just a little beast
because he was like a thundering herd coming down on the.
Wing and Then Dennis, RODMAN i WAS i was a.
RUNNER i would run out run everybody and get to my.
SPOT i couldn't Lose Dennis. Rodney he was almost it
was like a disease. Alone but it was all over,
(30:34):
me and you, KNOW i had to figure out a
way to score AND i didn't have, to you, know
guard him that.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
Much on our.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Offense but you, know he was looking to block my.
Shot he was getting, rebounds he was getting put. Backs
he was just a great, player.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Just pesky and. Uh in eighty, five y'all went to
The Western Conference. Finals did you feel like y'all could
have won a championship with that?
Speaker 2 (30:58):
TEAM i felt like we could. Have you, know we
played in The lakers that year in The Western Conference.
Finals we'd go into The Great Western form and they
just killed us the first. Game second, game we beat.
Them you, Know that's that's how it happens in the.
Playoffs sometimes you get beat. Back second, game the other
team comes. Back we go back To. Denver it was
(31:20):
two two one one. Back then we go back To
denver and in the first, Quarter i'm going. Up you
know how you get, there your, hands your your fingers
taped for that ligament right there when you have that
that damage There AND i had.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
Both of my thumbs taped and go for a.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Rebound kareem gets the rebound and he comes down and
he does this AND i had my hands up and
his elbow hit me right, here AND i broke my.
Thumb so that was the end of our. Playoffs you.
Speaker 5 (32:00):
The franchised all time lead to score an average and
twenty five point. Nine like if that's something like when
you got done that you think will still be surviving
this LONG i did.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
NOT i did, not and it won't survive much. Longer,
Yeah junker making a.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Sense he's got my assists all time assists, record and
you know he's slowly Getting it'll be the all time leading,
scorer no doubt about.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
It when you look at, him what do you think
A jokers? Game how much?
Speaker 5 (32:32):
Appreciation because he's kind of like a throwback in this
league where you got all of this stuff going. On
he kind of the big man who's STILL i, mean
even though it's not back to the basketball it used to,
be he's still more retro than a lot of the,
guys these young.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Guys now he's, retro but he's also.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
He's also forging his own style in his own game
to where other players are gonna. Have you, know, guys
when when when? Safe when When michael was, playing guys
wanted to be Like. Mike they wanted to dump and
shoot jump. Shots and do all the Things mike, Did
and they're probably guys that aren't as agile or. Quick
(33:18):
they see The joker and, SAY i.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
Want to be like The.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Joker, yeah he uses his body so. Well he's got
all kinds of little. Shots he seized the floor so.
Well it's almost like he's got eyes in the back
of his. Head but if you notice when he's playing
how well he uses the girth of his. Body he'll
get you down low and he'll throw a little hook
shot from, here but his wide body has got you over,
(33:44):
here so you're not going to get to the block.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
The shot that's.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Right and then when he's, outside he's he's able to
drive to the basket and back you down and shoot
the three or whatever he needs to. Do but you,
know if you leave, him if you come, doubling he's
gonna find your. Man so he's a throwback and a new.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Age how was it when you when they won a,
championship When denver won a? Championship, finally how did you
feel about?
Speaker 2 (34:13):
THAT i felt great about. It you, know it was
something that we wanted to see the team do as a.
Franchise it's like we could never get. There, yeah and you,
know Coach malone and his, guys they did a great
job of bringing it all together and you.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Know getting.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
It you, know it's all the little. Pieces you look
at the pieces that they. Had they had the right.
Pieces it wasn't Just joker or it Was Maria, acp
it Was. Gordon you, know they all had a different,
part a different role to, play and they played their
role as.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Well they definitely did thirty one franchise, records all time.
Records when you, retired did you you feel.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
All work that you put in to have thirty?
Speaker 4 (35:02):
One?
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Franchever did you feel all the work once you? Retired
like man thirty?
Speaker 3 (35:06):
One like that's.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Unheard ONCE i retired AND i was done with the,
GAME i didn't really think about it as. Much AND
i MEAN i didn't know all the different little things that.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
They kept tabs, on.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
RIGHT i, MEAN i knew THAT i was a scorer
and a rebounder and sometimes shot, blocker BUT i WAS
i prided myself more.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
On my passing, game you, know being able to pass the.
Speaker 5 (35:30):
Ball how did it feel when you got to call
that they were going to retire In? Jersey out there In?
Denver the number two was going up to the. Rafters
that was an awesome. Feeling you, know it's. Everlasting it's
no one.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Unless they changed the, rules that number two will be
there in the rafters for.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
Whatever. Yeah and you KNOW i changed my number from.
COLLEGE i was twenty two in. College.
Speaker 5 (35:54):
Yeah were you, aware like so when we came, out,
right when we came to league two thousand and early two,
thousands it.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Was like the huge bust of the retro.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
Jerseys were you aware that your jersey was one of
the dopest and like one.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Of the most elite throwback jerseys.
Speaker 5 (36:12):
That that was going, around that that blue number two
with the, checker you, know The Denver, like were you
aware like how popular that jersey became during the retro.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Time it was definitely one of the top. Jerseys, yeah you,
KNOW i didn't.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
KNOW i didn't understand what that meant until the licensing.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
Checks, tey there you.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Go, YEAH i definitely had your, jersey, man that was
like one of the dopest jersey with with the colors on, it,
uh the white one and the blue, one like was
just just crazy out. Here when the retros start hitting
in early you, know.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
You know who who really made it?
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Popular alan Iverson. Y, yep he came To denver and
he wore that he kept that jersey did it was,
retired but he would you, know he liked that.
Speaker 5 (37:12):
Jersey so he was wearing the. Redro he was the
he was the you, know he was wearing the Red
HROs like we. Was he was one of the ones
we try to just.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Like most, definitely most, DEFINITELY i, Know, jen your jersey.
Retired but how was your family like you see in your,
family witness like your your history of what you accomplished
at that, Moment, well.
Speaker 4 (37:36):
It was it was early in my.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Career my mom got to witness me as a as
a college player and SOME nba player SOME nba time
and you, know to make her. Proud it was just
an awesome feeling for. Me and to be able to
and you don't, know you guys probably can relate to
wanting to bring your fan uh and helped them as
(38:03):
much as you. Can and being able to do something
for my mom that made her feel special was probably
the highlight of my.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
Career second and, NONE i know.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
That, yeah getting inducted to The Basketball hall Of FAME
us as, players everybody want to get inducted and want
to get that jacket and want to get that. Statue
that's like the icing on the, Cakes like it's like
putting a cherry on top it.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
Is to get that phone.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Call WHAT i don't know if it was a phone
call explaining us how did you find out that you
was you made The hall Of?
Speaker 4 (38:40):
Fame it was a phone, call.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
OKAY i got a phone call from the at that,
time whoever the head of The hall Of fame, was
and said THAT i had been. Selected and you, know
it was it was hard for me to, believe you, know.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
To be in the same.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Space for The Wilt chamberlains And Bill russell's And reservings
and all those great basketball players that came before.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
Me he was just an honor and awesome feeling for.
Me it's a QUESTION i like to.
Speaker 5 (39:15):
Ask SO i know it's you, know a little different
time as far as the, money but like you still
when you made the pro you ran into more money
than you had ever seen at that.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Point oh, man that that that fifty thousand was a lot.
Speaker 5 (39:29):
Of money that you, Know so this is WHAT i
want to know with that fifty, THOUSANDS i don't want to.
Know you, know everybody take care of their mom or they.
FAMILY i want to know what did Og Alix english
do with when you got that money just to treat
yourself and they got to be nothing, like what was
the craziest thing you did to treat yourself when you
got the?
Speaker 4 (39:47):
BAG i bought me A volkswagen van Man, o, man
tell me about the, man tell me about.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
IT i had A volkswagen camper that Would it was
orange and and you, know you could drive it and
you could use it as an apartment if you went.
Speaker 5 (40:03):
Out, okay so you had. Them they had the sleeper
in and, everything.
Speaker 4 (40:07):
And the sleeper in. It that was for. Me that
was my.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Highlight and then WHEN i made the team the second,
YEAR i got a chance to trade in and get
me a new.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
CAR i.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
THOUGHT i was, thinking you're finna say a seventy Six
Grandville pontiac.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
Or a SEVENTIES i could.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Afford you gotta start, one you gotta bench, one you
gotta trade, one and you gotta cut.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
One.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Dang so it's four guys you gotta start bench trade
to CUT. U the first guy Is Julius, irvin DOCTOR.
J the second guy Is George Gervin. Iceman the third
guys but No. King the fourth guy Is Larry. Bird
oh all small? Fourwards who would you? Start who would you?
(41:07):
Bench who would you? Trade who would you just?
Speaker 4 (41:10):
Them? One? Yeah if you only pick, one the only pick?
One Probably Larry.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
Bird Larry, bird.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
Very, Legend larry.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Legend they don't Give larry enough.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
Credit no. MORE i don't know What larry. Was the
one True larry was?
Speaker 1 (41:30):
True so you h you played With, milwaukee you played
with The, pacers you played With. Denver you had a
lot of teammates over your. Career if you had to
pick four teammates that you played with to make your ultimate,
five all of them in their, prime all of them
at their best with, you who would make your ultimate five?
Speaker 3 (41:52):
Roster any of your teammates from.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
The Faver, Oh Kicky vanderway, okay and Probably Dan. Isle,
okay that's three and. More tr?
Speaker 3 (42:15):
Done nice five right there?
Speaker 4 (42:18):
Now?
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Yeah nice. Five let me ask you about the today's.
Game you've seen the game from the the seventies and
how it, evolved how the rules, change how different players.
Play you might, feel like, me the traveling and the
carrying is getting out of. Hand but outside of, that
how do you feel about today's? Game and where THE
(42:42):
nba has got.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
TO i, think, uh you, know for a, MINUTE i was,
concerned But i've seen some of the young talent now
And i'm not as concerned as A there's.
Speaker 4 (42:56):
A nice bevy of young talent that's come into the.
League the only Thing i've.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Been not disappointed, with BUT i would like to see
him do less of his shoot to three.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
Pointer always be looking for the three point.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Shot me, too raise me.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Too maybe that's Because i'm a mid range kind of,
guy BUT i think the beauty of the game is
between the three point line in the.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
Basket and you, know.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
There are some guys that shoot shoot the three and
it's a beautiful, shot BUT i think they rely on
it too much.
Speaker 4 (43:28):
Now AND i guess that's the. Analytics that's all we
didn't have to deal.
Speaker 5 (43:32):
With tell me, this you being, like when you look
at a guy Like Kevin, durant how much do you
appreciate his. Game he's a guy who fully embraces the
mid range and like he's like a.
Speaker 4 (43:44):
Hooper he's a.
Speaker 5 (43:45):
Purist he wants to be a perfect, player like a
fifty forty ninety. Guy he wants to take be as
efficient as. Possible how you feel about his game and
where he's been able to evolve.
Speaker 4 (43:55):
Too he's one of my favorite. PLAYERS i like what
he does on the.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Floor you, know he didn't have to make a big you,
know hullabaloo about making a jump.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
Shot he shoots the shot and he goes back down
the court and played.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Defense, yeah you, know he's mid, range like you, say
but he also comes through with big. Moments you, KNOW
i remember him being in The Olympic games and.
Speaker 4 (44:21):
Dot Kevin. Durant who knows where we would have. Gone, yeah,
YEAH i like his.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Game, yeah you've seen The All star game format this
year and you played in the Traditional All star game. Format,
yes what do you think is the problem with The
All Star?
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Game the problem is when we played in the game was,
like you, know we're. Playing we played with pride because
we didn't want to, lose but we also played because.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
We weren't making that much.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Money you, know we got about five thousand dollars for
winning or ten thousand for, winning five thousand if you.
Speaker 4 (45:03):
Lost, yeah and you know that was that was a
part of.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
It but it was more about the pride of the,
game and it was a real. Game it wasn't no.
Gimmicks it was, Like, okay we are The, east you
are The. West let's see who's got the. Toughest and
we came out and we.
Speaker 5 (45:22):
Hooped, listen that's the WAY i think it should. Be just, like,
hey we want to, play we want to Be we
want to show y'all better than you because it's a
game to be. Played if it's a game to be,
played we're gonna show y'all, up and y'all ain't gonna
show us. Up it's like going back to the, playground you.
Know it's, Like, okay let's see what you. Got so
we like you. OGEE i, MEAN i like to say
(45:44):
appreciated because you clearly open these doors for. Us because
me and D miles have had the opportunity to be
in a couple of movies as little extras. Actives, great
so tell us about your experience getting to be in
some of the. Movies you Was the And eddie With
Whoopee Goldberg Amazing. Great it's just some of the things
that you got a chance to.
Speaker 4 (46:02):
Do for, me.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
Playing The Amazing grace was probably one of the highlights
of my career BECAUSE i felt like the character was.
Speaker 4 (46:10):
Me, yeah it.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Was it was a player that decided to give up
basketball to make the world better and that's what he.
Speaker 4 (46:23):
Did AND i enjoyed that.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
CHARACTER i enjoyed you, Know Jamie Lee curtis And Greg
RePEc and all the people that worked with.
Speaker 4 (46:31):
Me it was a lot of.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Fun, yeah it's some great basketball players come out Of South.
Carolina can you speak on some of the players like the,
kg's The Ray, allen's The jermaine, O'Neills John, morant like
these guys who you know come after You Gg, jackson
these guys who come after The, midican a lot of
(46:54):
guys to keep the tradition going and to Keep South
carolina real of been in the league and and and
repping your.
Speaker 3 (47:02):
State uh's speak on some of them guys for you.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Know it's it's great to see some of the players
that have come out of the state that and then
they weren't just, players they were very good, players you,
Know xavier, McDaniel jermaine, O'Neill Kevin, garnett Now Ray allen
And John, morant and then you've Got Tyrone.
Speaker 4 (47:29):
Corbin. Yeah uh And middleton who.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Plays with played with The milwaukee and a lot of
other people THAT i don't even can't even name that's
come out of the, State Larry.
Speaker 4 (47:42):
Nance it's been just a whole bunch of.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Guys and then now we've got women players that are
just as Except.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Yeah, yeah speaking of, women let's talk about like how
great of a thing that don.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
Is doing with the women's game.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
Cocks, no nothing against the, men but the women game,
cocks and how she's bringing so much energy to the university.
Speaker 4 (48:09):
And the state and the. State you know What i'm.
Saying she.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Is she's a one of a, kind exceptional. Coach she
doesn't been to rhetoric from the. Outside, yeah he. Coaches
she's been here a lot of, years and young ladies
like to play for you. Know She she's benefited from
the talent in the state as well with Our Asian
(48:33):
Asian wilson and now you have my laser field full
while a And Jorce edwards who are on the team,
now they are.
Speaker 4 (48:41):
Exceptional they're going to be exceptional players in the league as. Well.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Yeah But dawn is the is the chef that makes
the dish, work make it.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
Good, yeah that's, dope that's. Dope, no, man we appreciate,
you olg. Man this was. Awesome you know What i'm.
Speaker 5 (48:59):
Saying we all he's enjoy getting to get with you,
guys the ogs like like he, said you the, guys our,
uncles our pops in and our OG's talk. About and
so whenever we really get to get, down we feel
like we're getting the history lesson of the.
Speaker 4 (49:11):
Game. Man so we.
Speaker 5 (49:12):
Really appreciate you taking out the time and coming on
and chopping.
Speaker 4 (49:15):
It up with.
Speaker 5 (49:15):
It so g, everybody this is Being Alex, english one
of the best players in NB a.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
History thank, you and just to say you, GUYS i
got a chance to watch you all play as, well
AND i enjoyed watching you, all so thank.
Speaker 4 (49:31):
You you will be og like?
Speaker 3 (49:34):
Me they doing? Them, now how you gonna how you
get used to?
Speaker 4 (49:37):
It BECAUSE i can't get used to? It what?
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Else, nothing but it's just take it and enjoy it
and love it and embrace, it and uh just teach
them the right way to do.
Speaker 4 (49:52):
It that's, right and thank? You thanks. Again all, right, guys.
Speaker 7 (50:01):
You want to thank y'all for you're continued supporter of
The knuckleheads. Podcast be sure to give us two taps
by writing a review and rating five stars wherever you
get your podcasts and make sure to hit that subscribe
button so you don't miss an. Episode you can also
watch all the episodes on The Players tribune on YouTube.
Speaker 4 (50:16):
Page follow us on.
Speaker 5 (50:17):
Social media At knuckleheads podcast ENJOIN o Knucklehead facebook group
for exclusive. Content thanks again and all of our guests and.
Fans this wouldn't be possible without.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
Y'all The Players tribute dot com
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